Hold You is both. It showed people say good money to see this movie.
When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, hot
popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring,
n it off. Tycho drumming goes back thousands of years. But why
aren't there more professional tycho players that are women that are making careers for themselves.
They're not part of the existing books and documentary trees, and if they
are, they're a footnote or they're a side note. They're not part of
the main story. Gorgeous. It's my dream project to make a concert where
you bring the best female taycho artists from Japan and from North America together and
fill the stage and make it incredible. Quick women center stage. It's okay,
we're really doing this. Yeah, so now it's gonna happen. I
was like, I'm so happy here you training, you chain, and you
chrain, and you chrain and you get this incredible experience. But this experience
is forged in suffering. It's about making space and celebrating something that's already there.
Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth.
I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking with directors Don
Michelson and Carrie Pickett, as well as their documentary subject, Jennifer. We're
all about the film Finding Her Beat. It is all about tycho drumming in
the Midwest, specifically up Minnesota. It is a great documentary and you can
find out more about it at her beatfilm dot com. Definitely check it out,
and I hope you enjoyed the interview. Carrie and Donald, I'll start
with you. Can you tell me how you met each other and how you
started working together. Carrie and I met through an organization called film Fetel's chapters
all over the world and we have one in Minnesota. We met through that
organization and I'd always wanted to work with Carrie. She has an amazing eye.
She has a background. She can tell you this, but she has
a background as a self photographer a note. She's been all over the world
and it has done amazing things. And so I was lucky enough to know
her. And then when Jen asked me to have lunch with her to talk
about this concert that she was going to be putting on on the show in
a couple of years, it became very clear that Carrie was the person that
I wanted to work with on this. What happened with Jen is that Jen
wanted me to film the concert, just to document the event. And the
more we talked about it, in the idea of all these women coming from
around the world and spending time together and living together for the first time,
and what a historic event this was going to be, I was like,
Jen, this is a film, this is a movement. We want to
see how this all comes together, and if this comes together and all of
that. And so luckily Jen is a person who says yes to exciting ideas.
That is how she rolls, and so she said, yes, let's
do this. And then I reached out to Carrie and said, hey,
carry what are your plans for the next few years? Carrie, what were
your thoughts when you heard about this? First of all, yay to be
able to work with Don and two my other films, I had really been
wearing most of all the hats, and so it was an incredibly exciting opportunity
to do a film in cinemabarity where we would have two cameras at least on
each side of the ocean and try and be able to tell this story as
the story unfolded. There's a lot of different ways to do a documentary,
and we chose the most difficult way, which is to really not impose any
of our own ideas on the film, but let it emerge from the journey
of these amazing, badass women realizing their dreams with these big drums. And
I jumped at the opportunity, and also just it was a great opportunity to
try and do something really hard, and so when you do something really hard,
the reward is tremendous when it works out, and so I feel really
happy to have been able to follow Jen Megan how along with Don on this
incredible journey. Jen, how did you get involved with Tycho drumming. I'm
a creed adoptee and I grew up in North Dakota, so I didn't really
have any exposure to Asian American culture or community, and so I moved to
the Twin Cities, Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and I wanted to be an
actor. But fortunately the director of the theater company that I was working with,
Rich Yomi, was also a Frooked former tycho player, and so he
incorporated Tycho drumming in a play, and that was the first time I saw
it. He rolled it in as a demonstration in a fundraising event and he
played a drum for maybe a minute, and that was it. Like,
it totally hooked me. I'd never seen anything as dynamic and engaging and as
exciting as that, and so I started out just wanting to learn, and
then decades later, it's become my life's Don said that you two had lunch
together to start this project off. How were you aware of her? Oh,
cook ahead, This is wonderful. Don and I go back. We
knew each other in our early twenties. She was the freshman college roommate of
my ex wife, so wake up. And I've always admired her work and
that the amazing projects that she would take on, and I had no concept
of how that was even possible. So it's been such such a delight to
have this project to collaborate with and to see her work in progress, and
to get to know Carrie and be exposed to this whole world of documentary filmmaking.
It's quite incredible, and everyone I've met along the way has been really
inspiring. Yeah, you talked about not imposing limits on this and just letting
things flow. How did you find the way as this kind of came together.
I would say that one of the things we did as we did a
Kickstarter, we raised enough funds to send a production crew to Japan, and
that was really key in terms of following several of the key artists from Japan
and being able to do that way ahead of the main event. And so
we knew that we were building towards an event and that things would happen,
but it was anyone's guess on how it would roll out, specifically Tiko through
the same theater company theater move that Jen was talking about. But really I
learned as we were going along the way the nuances. When I got to
Japan, it was really cool to see that a number of the people we
were following represented both the ancient, beautiful traditional art form of tycho and then
also the I'm taking tycho and making it a rock star concert view of tycho.
And so I didn't realize before we left how we would be encompassing all
these different styles of tycho, and that how all the women in the film
would be these amazing leaders. And so I learned a lot about tycho and
I also learned to be able to film in a language that I don't understand.
Harry had very good instincts for finding these intimate or special moments that you
could feel were happening even though you didn't know what was being said, and
you couldn't stop film me to ask, so that I thought that was very
impressive. She also had Shiho Rikata who was there filming with her in Japan,
who did speak Japanese, which was andy, but yeah, and that
was that's part of I think the bigger vision of this film is that we
really wanted this film to reflect the goals of the concert, and that was
to raise up performers, artists to are normally sideline but our masters at what
they do. And we decided very early on that our crew would be made
up almost entirely of female, non binary, queer and Asian filmmakers and stuck
to that throughout the production. And it was an incredible experience in terms of
having a crew that was so invested in the story because they saw themselves in
front of the camera. It wasn't just a gig, this was this is
my life too, this is my struggle, this is what I feel when
I'm told that I can't do a thing, or I get sidelined and some
guy grows up on the stage or some guy I gets the camera. So
I think that was really key to it. I think the other thing that
was key to putting this all together was the collaboration with Jen and Taiko or
It's Midwest and just We've talked about this a lot between ourselves, but how
collaborative this art form is that documentary, particularly when you're working with marginalized communities,
it's so important to be working in partnership rather than saying we've gone all
the ideas and we're just going to make a thing about you. Now,
this is us making a thing together, and the film would not be It
would not be without them without Tigo Arts Midwest and Jen and Megan, and
they were the ones who were like shake, oklay, these are the people
we need in Japan. They are the ones that are going to bring it
home because this is their world. And I just have to say too that
as you could tell with Carrie and Don that they created such an atmosphere trust,
which was really important because all of these artists were coming together in a
way that was probably terrifying for them. Everyone was outside of their comfort zone.
But yet they also had this understanding that this is like precious time,
precious air, precious moment in history that we were creating, and now it's
forever there, Like for so long these folks have been missing out of the
story and out of the narrative of what tycho is and can be, and
now they're center stage, and now you can because of what Carrion Conda did,
you can't take that away like it's going to be there now forever.
And I really just appreciate their approach in letting their stories emerge organically, because
I think so many of them have had their stories co opted or just erased,
and so it was I just think the integrity, even from our first
conversation at that lunch, made it clear that they understood the best way to
approach this. You talk about that whole marginalization. Did anybody ever try to
tell you, Jen, you shouldn't be playing these drums? Your women don't
do this. This is interesting in that what I would say is that,
Okay, so you have thousands of years of traditions where women weren't allowed to
drum, and it's because Originally they thought these drums were our way to communicate
with the gods, and there were only men should do that. And then
in recent decades more women play tycho, which is fantastic, and it's flipped
it so now almost like sixty five percent of tycho players or wouldn't it.
But what happened is that even though participation changed, equity did not come along
with it. So you didn't get the same power, dynamics, the same
financial support, the same all of those things didn't change with the participation.
And that was part of this film, is being part of a larger movement
of like artists saying like all right enough already, like things have to change,
and we're just part of that, an extension of that, a catalyst
for that. But it's been happening, it's been bubbling up up, and
there's so many people who are part of that, not just in tycho,
but like in so many other places in the world, in different fields.
But yeah, so no one told me, no one told me you shouldn't
play tychos. But the people that i've I look to as visionaries and heroes
and the people I aspire to be in the same room with, they told
them. When people do create something out of nothing, you forget like how
epic of a journey it was, and then I'll soon come later. Oh
yeah, of course there's no problem. No one's gotten in my way,
but you're missing like this bigger picture, and then once you open your eyes
to it, then you see it everywhere, and then you can't not see
it. So yeah, I think it's a journey. But thankfully no one
has gotten my face in that way, although I've been in rooms where the
men fill the stage and the men pick the mic and the men make the
plans, and all of these amazing female non baronyaria artists are in the room
and always have been in the room, but aren't a part of those discussions.
So yeah, it's a little bit of both. You also mentioned that
whole idea of that the tradition versus the rock stars. Is there any sort
of conflict when it comes to that, Is it like, don't show off?
This is a very sacred thing for me. I would say that people
come to Tycho for many ways and for many different experiences, and I think,
of course that happens because what is so essential to you may not be
the essential thing for someone else. Like and in any art form. So
I think anything that has these embodied cultural roots is always going to have a
little bit of tension between tradition and innovation. But who gets to say what
is or isn't tycho? Who gets to say what is or isn't worthy?
That's part of the conversation and the growth and the evolution. There's room for
both and always, in my opinion, I think it's important to have integrity
at roots and connection to why things have and ben and what you can gain
for that. At the same time, I think, be an artist,
do your thing, carve your path. So I'm all for all of it,
but I would like to throw in there that I think that's what one
of the things that makes Gen's work revolutionary is that she did bring all of
these artists to that very different styles and perspectives on why they made the why
they made Ticho, why they did what they did, and particularly the first
piece in the film and first piece in the concert, which is all of
these players with their different styles coming together in one song. Which the fact
that she pulled that off as a freaking miracle because it's but it would I'm
trying to think of what a parallel would be in another art form, it's
I don't know, rap and country and sticking all those people together and be
like, make us song, go for it. But she did, and
it was phenomenal. There's something to that. She has a very inclusive worldview,
which you'll see nfilm. You mentioned the word logistics. You've got the
logistics of the concert and then you've got the logistics of the film going on.
It must have been close to nightmarish at times trying to get all of
these pieces to fit together. Yeah, I would say whenever you take on
a big project, it always seems like a near disaster at every moment,
and it's like you scrape by all of these disasters and all these miracles happen,
and it seems like it's just going to fall apart into the moment that
it comes together and takes off. And Yeah, at any given moment in
the journey of this, I could have had a charming mental breakdown, let's
put it that way. But at every moment there was something that would keep
you going because of the people involved, because of faith in the project,
because of the art that you knew was that was happening, and just the
privilege the privilege of being in a room with your heroes. We wouldn't just
grasp that. Like someone else quoted, I think they said, it's like
the Avengers of Tycho in that like truly, like the world Superstar is coming
together and we get to like share space and try to create something special.
It was an amazing time with the logistics, technical logistics, language barriers,
tired people. You'll see in the film. There was an illness that swept
through the artists and also swept through the crew, so you don't see that,
but because we were embedded, and I would say that those are the
big glaring things that come to mind. In terms of production, I will
also say post production was done completely in a COVID world. The film.
We were lucky to finish production days before the world shut down, literally days
we got in and by the skin of our teeth, that concert was set
in years in advance, and we were just lucky that it was scheduled with
the day it was, or maybe it was fortuitous. I don't know,
but either way, we were doing our post production entirely remotely, which I
think as independents were used to, but not to this level, not to
the level of doing our color correction remotely things like that. So it's that
was both an opportunity and a curse, depending on which day you were looking
at. Yeah, there were a lot of challenges. This is a project
that started in twenty eighteen and quite frankly, is still going if you count
distribution and getting your fill out in the world, We're still going and it's
twenty twenty four, although we did wrap post production in late twenty twenty two
is when we premiere to add No Valley. But yeah, now, one
of the things, listening juggling of the international aspect of this was made a
little bit easier by the fact that we all lived together in one house,
and so the intimacy was built in the structure. And as a documentary filmmaker,
I don't want to miss anything, and the opportunity to stay in the
same house with the artists provided a chance for us to become really just part
of the crew, where the people stopped looking at the camera, the people
stopped paying attention to the camera because the camera was always there, and so
that allows for a tremendous amount of intimacy, and I think that's one of
the strengths of the movie. And Jen built that in. That was Jen.
She'd maybe never done a film before, but she really set it up
in a way that led to success. Don mention the premiere at Mill Valley,
How was that for you? How was it for the three of you
seeing this on the big screen for the first time with an audience. It
was amazing. And we had we had San Jose Tycho Reform after in the
city square and everyone was dancing and cheering and people clapped like in the middle
of the film in several places. That really surprised me. That was neat
and an Oscar winning director stand up and ask the first question and he gosh
and just said, this is the film the world really needs to see right
now to have hope and inspiration for people coming together and collaborating with diversity and
respect and creativity. So we were very well received. What are the three
of you working on? Now? I know you're not working together on a
project necessarily, but what are the three of you up to? So Jen,
I'll start with you. Oh, I'm trying to raise four million dollars
to get a permanent building home for our Tycho group and be a community center
in North End. Saint Paul is that all four million? Yeah, let
me check me my wallet. I might have that for you, Garry.
How about yourself. I'm working on new film and I told Dawn that I
don't want to do any more films without her, and so she's coming on
board the film as well. It's a film on my uncle Roy Blakey and
his amazing life and times as a world figure skater collector photographer extraordinaire. And
he's ninety three years old and he has a number of collections that are in
Paerall and so I'm trying to follow his journey. And don't you put on
another movie between Finding Her Beat than this one? Actually after Finding Her Beat?
So that premiered in April, and it's called Minnesota Mean, and it
is following a year in the life of Minnesota roller Derby as they are on
a quest to win the international prize, which is called the Hydra. So
it's an intimate, character driven piece following a team in roller derby. And
so yeah, that film is now a little bit behind this one in terms
of release. That one is currently screening in select cities with roller Derby teams.
That one has a mission not only to entertain but also to help raid
up the sport of roller derby, which took a major hit after COVID because
of COVID, and so this is actually this year is their first year of
international competition since COVID. So anyway, I'm doing a lot of screenings with
a lot of roller derby teams and having a ball while also working with Carrie
and developing new projects which I'm not going to talk about yet because none of
them are none of them have signed on the dotted line, but there will
be more. Where's the best place for people to keep up with the film
and with the filmmakers probably social media. We have both Facebook and Instagram pages
for Finding Her Beat at our website, so that's finding Herbeat dot com and
the links to all of the things, and that is where we do our
announcements to particularly screenings, because those are still happening. We're still doing festival,
We're still doing community screenings. We're going to be out in New York
in March. I think we're still doing our things, So definitely follow us
on the socials. And we have one other super exciting thing too, and
that is that the State Department chose Finding Her Beat for part of their American
Film Showcase and we will be on a catalog for the next two years where
embassy around the world can access our film and so we're not like we're really
literally going worldwide. And Jen, is there a good place for people to
keep up with you and the Tycho community in Minnesota? Absolutely, tychoartsmidwest dot
org can get on our mailing list. We have so many things going on,
it's pretty exciting Tycho. I feel is this untapped potential of healing and
empowerment and connection and bless it's just really fun to hit things. Yeah.
I feel like the more people that find Tycho drumming, the better the world
will be. Thank you so much everybody. This was so great talking with
you all. Thanks to moving. Thank you so much. Time to keep
to keep st