WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:06.120 Deal is sponsored by Wall Street, Window dot Com and listeners like you, 2 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:16.960 Yeah and nowt O Media March eighteen, twenty twenty four. Allegedly, according 3 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.440 to that thing we call a calendar, this the o'celly effect. You hearing 4 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:24.719 us, whether you're catching it live on the stream or you know, on 5 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:28.719 a Monday, I'm broadcasting here, which is unusual, but here we go. 6 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:32.200 It is the first broadcast day of the week, and you guys will 7 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:37.000 probably be hearing it mostly on the podcast anyway afterwards, because that's where most 8 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.560 of you get the o'celly effect. So anyway, welcome to it, no 9 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.240 matter how you came to it. What are we discussing tonight, Well, 10 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:47.799 I have a return guest who has been on the show numerous times to discuss 11 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:53.759 quite a diverse array of topics. We've gone through unsolved mysteries. We've talked 12 00:00:53.799 --> 00:01:00.719 about the murder of some well, you know, rock stars of pasts out 13 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.679 there. Not really a rockstar though, more of like a soul singer. 14 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.359 But you know what, that's okay. Take a look at what Albert Lanier 15 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.239 and I have discussed in the past. He's a veteran journalist and currently can 16 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.359 find him on substack, and in fact, what we're going to talk about 17 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:19.560 tonight you can find by going to Albertlineer dot substack dot com. And what 18 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.280 is it about, Well, tonight's show is going to be about that thing 19 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:27.280 we talked with Ed Oppermann about recently, that thing that quite honestly, whenever 20 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.120 I touch upon it, I sit back and I have to listen to most 21 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:38.640 people because a very complex thing is out there in let's call it conspiracy culture, 22 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:42.200 let's call it the media in general. And now even Netflix has gotten 23 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:48.359 in on the act this month, indeed, they released a documentary series. 24 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:53.239 Now, those people that are deeply steeped in conspiracy culture have had a lot 25 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.000 to say about this. The regular press has had a bit to say about 26 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.439 it. Indeed, I've got an article in front of me right this moment 27 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:02.680 from uh, what is this The Guardian? I don't know. Do you 28 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:07.439 consider the Guardian mainstream? I guess you do at this point. But other 29 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:12.960 places have covered it. Why because it's a highly successful documentary series on the 30 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:19.319 Octopus. And indeed the headline on the Guardian article is extreme power and secrecy 31 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:25.199 inside shocking Netflix hit the Octopus Murders. Okay, there's the murder, there's 32 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:30.919 the software, there's the worldwide net of conspiracy, and all of these things 33 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:36.479 we're gonna have to touch upon with veteran journalist Albert Lanier. So first off, 34 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:38.960 how are you doing tonight, mister Liney? I'm fine? And how 35 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:43.400 are you took? I'm doing okay. But I'll tell you every time I 36 00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:49.800 tear open this subject with anybody, it is complexity stacked on top of complexity, 37 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:53.240 and then you know what another code of complexity. Like I'm payton the 38 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.599 House and I'm not sure how many times somebody's rented it. You know what 39 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:02.439 I mean? It is an amazing store. So I'm curious almost to start 40 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:07.879 with a question for you. That might be strange because I don't think of 41 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:12.599 you as covering these sorts of topics generally. I know you'll touch upon conspiracy 42 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.960 stuff, You'll look into the general conspiracy culture. It's not like you haven't 43 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:22.719 done Alex Jones show before, just saying you've been there, You've been around 44 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:27.240 it, but it's not really your bailliwick. It's not your thing usually to 45 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:30.879 get into this kind of stuff. So is it Netflix inspired or was there 46 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:35.800 some other reason? I know the answer to that, But tell us about 47 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:39.680 how it is that you even wanted to cover this topic at all, and 48 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:46.199 tell me how you came into it. Well, it's interesting you start out 49 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:54.639 with this question because I actually found out about Danny Cassilero and the octopus, 50 00:03:54.639 --> 00:04:03.680 and of course the firm inslaugh and it's Rietterry Software promise back in the nineties. 51 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:08.680 I know the last time I was on this show, I think was 52 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:14.319 last year, when I was talking about my Unsolved Mysteries article titled you may 53 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:17.759 be able to help solve the mystery. It's interesting because I was talking about 54 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.720 that at a great time. But how I found out about Danny Castellarro and 55 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:28.319 the octopus and all of this was actually from an Unsolved Mystery segment back in 56 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:31.519 the nineteen nineties. That's where I first found out about the death of Danny 57 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:38.839 Castilero, what he was investigating, which he called the octopus, this group 58 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:45.720 of individuals, this sort of shadowy collective, and it was learning about that 59 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:47.879 when I believe I was still in college. I can't remember when the segment 60 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:53.720 came out on Unsolved Mysteries. That made an impression in my mind. And 61 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:59.639 years later, back in March of twenty ten, I was interviewed on a 62 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:03.199 show called Medium Monarchy, and I did a two and a half hour interview 63 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:12.879 talking about Danny, Octopus, inslaw promise, Michael Riccona, Shudo, William 64 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:19.240 Hamilton, all of this. And I cite that because not only because I 65 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:26.600 had actually started doing research. This is actually a personal research project. As 66 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:32.319 a writer and as a journalist. What I would sometimes do outside of work 67 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:36.120 is if I got interested in a subject, if I was intrigued about something, 68 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:40.920 I'd go get a bunch of books from library or read a bunch of 69 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:45.439 magazine articles. I do research. So this actually began for me, not 70 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:49.680 as work. I was not assigned to write an article about any of this, 71 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:56.079 Octopus, Daddy Catilero, any of this. I actually took this on 72 00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.120 as a personal research project because I had seen the Unsolved Mystery segment on the 73 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:05.199 death of Danny Castilero and learned about this, and so when I started researching 74 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:10.879 this. I guess I started researching this back in twenty ten, at least 75 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:15.519 because I was on Media Monarchy doing the interview, and that was the first 76 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:20.879 interview I did. That was March of twenty ten, and people are interested 77 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:25.439 in that they can go to Internet archives and it's been there for a number 78 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.120 of years. It was archived, I believe March fifth, twenty ten, 79 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.639 and they can listen to that interview where I lay out, bit by bit, 80 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:39.439 point by point, detail by detail, the aspects of Danny Castilero's questionable 81 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:44.399 debt. I talk about promise, I talk about inslaw, the firm behind 82 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:49.160 it, Bill and Nancy Hamilton, Michael Racconashudo, a whole bunch of things. 83 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:53.240 Okay, just pause right there for a second. Yeah, just pause 84 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:56.680 for a second there. Because Media Monarchy is somebody that I'm familiar with. 85 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.319 James Evan Plato is the guy behind that still going today, by the way, 86 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:05.720 and I especially yeah, and I especially point to his series with James 87 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:10.800 Corbett which they do something called a New World Next Week once a month, 88 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.720 and a great segment where they round up you know, the news. And 89 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.560 of course James has always been a unique producer of well, let's call it 90 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:25.480 a typical media outside of the mainstream. And James has also done work with 91 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:30.120 you know, other collaborators over the years. I appreciate his work. So 92 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.240 I just want to give a quick shout out to that. I'm certain that 93 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.800 you could probably find it somewhere in his archives as well. But also, 94 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:41.160 yeah, internet archives is a great resource and media monarchy as well. I'm 95 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.480 recommend it. But if you can't, go ahead and internet archives as well, 96 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:47.079 Yeah, one way or another, it's probably well worth getting a hold 97 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.920 of because this is well ahead of the recent interest. Now what's fascinating to 98 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:57.720 me is you're telling me that you got into this extremely early. Now I 99 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:01.759 add very little exposure to it. I had sort of vaguely heard about it. 100 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:05.800 I had heard about Castellaro's death, and there was a question there because 101 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.920 again, this is one of these suicides maybe and so on and so forth, 102 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.839 and there were others that I thought, you know, were more plainly 103 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:20.879 even more questionable than Castilaro's death regarding journalists. So you know, I'm not 104 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:22.839 going to get into that too deeply, but there was a guy out there 105 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:28.519 writing for the San Diego what was at the Mercury Sun Times that died allegedly 106 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.799 of a suicide as well, who was working on, you know, some 107 00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:35.639 things that had to do with the drug war that I was a whole lot 108 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.399 more concerned with than say, Danny Castellaria. But it's weird because over the 109 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.120 years, the octopus is not only this thing that Danny described starting with this 110 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:50.279 software and this one nefarious group, but has taken on I don't know, 111 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:56.080 other meanings. Let's say, in I'm going to just describe it again as 112 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:03.080 conspiracy culture, and the octopus is now now gone on to describe well kind 113 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.480 of the world Wide Web, if you will, pardon the pun, so 114 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:13.639 to speak of interconnected nefarious groups and how the software is at the heart of 115 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.480 it. Yes, but that this has become something that has evolved over time 116 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:24.000 as snowballed et cetera, et cetera. But I like how we're going to 117 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:28.200 begin with the beginning here where you're interested in it in the nineties on your 118 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.480 own, and you know, again, I just wouldn't think of it as 119 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.840 something that you would have covered, Like you said, you weren't assigned to 120 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.559 cover it back then. I mean, what kind of writing were you doing. 121 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:41.919 Let's see, if you're coming out of college and whatnot. I mean, 122 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:43.960 what were you doing right out of college writing wise? What were your 123 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.639 assignments? Like, well, I was a local and regional freelancer. It's 124 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:54.679 interesting, you notice because I didn't write for national publications throughout my career, 125 00:09:54.200 --> 00:10:00.159 I was strictly local and regional. I worked in Honolulu, Hawaii, which 126 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.639 is where I'm from. I worked in Seattle, Washington in the nineties, 127 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.399 and Los Angeles, California. So I lived and worked in both Seattle and 128 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:16.159 LA and mostly in Honolulu, which is where most of my career has been 129 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:20.279 based. And I was always local regional, So I wrote for publications in 130 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:22.399 the cities that I lived in. So you live in Seattle, you write 131 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:28.279 for Seattle publications. Los Angeles the same thing Honolulu was saying. So yeah, 132 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.639 I didn't. I wasn't. I didn't write for national publications during my 133 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:37.360 career, So this was That's why this was a kind of personal research. 134 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:43.559 Also was in my personal interest. So I had seen on Solve Mystery segment 135 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.080 and I was curious and I did the research into it. It looked it 136 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:50.919 up. Now, when I talk about the research, I want to be 137 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:56.679 very specific. I primarily looked into not only what I could of Danny's death, 138 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:01.840 but also primarily in slaw promise. And the reason I did that primarily 139 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:09.200 was because number One, there was a congressional investigation into what was termed the 140 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.919 Inslaw Affair. The House Judiciary Committee. So I got their report. I 141 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.679 read their report. I don't know, I don't recall if I read any 142 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:22.600 more documents, I may I might have. I think I also looked at 143 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:31.840 the federal bankruptcy proceedings that involved Inslaw in their lawsuit against the Department of Justice. 144 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.159 So a lot of a lot of my research, or a good shock 145 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:43.240 of my research was Promise and Inslaw, primarily because they were in the public 146 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:48.200 record. And that's very important because you mentioned, you know, I'm not 147 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:54.639 somebody who's affiliated in the realm of conspiracy, right right, and that the 148 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.879 reason is number one. I was a freelance journalist and I wrote for basically 149 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.879 mainstream publications for the most part. You know, I wrote for smaller publications, 150 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:09.879 but also somewhat major publications during my career in writing for newspapers and magazines. 151 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:16.360 So I wasn't somebody who I hate to compare myself to him, but 152 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.919 like Danny, who wrote for kind of a lot of I guess not well 153 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.600 known publications as a freelance writer. I think that's why the Octopus was so 154 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:31.759 important to him. It was his chance to break into the mainstream of the 155 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.120 news medium and the major news media. And the sad thing about Danny was, 156 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:41.120 you know, he never really got to I don't think he really got 157 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.600 to do the kind the things he wanted to do as a writer. That's 158 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:48.440 just my take as another writer, as another freelancer, and as another journalist. 159 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:52.720 He also did have a lot of tools at his disposal. I think 160 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:58.039 that's something that people have to understand. There was no substack back in nineteen 161 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:03.360 ninety one. There really wasn't even what you would consider an Internet in nineteen 162 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:09.639 ninety one, other than maybe at Darba and maybe in terms of the government, 163 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.639 in terms of bulletin boards and all of that. You know, maybe 164 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.879 amongst some computer programmers or some computer people. I'm not a computer expert, 165 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.919 but so Danny doesn't didn't have the options, and I think people should really 166 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.559 understand this. He didn't have the options that I do. Now, even 167 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:33.679 as a retired freelance journalist, I can come on your program, The o'celli 168 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.919 Effect and talk about this. I can write an article for substack, which 169 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.000 I have the title of. My new article, of course, is the 170 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:52.120 Long Tentacles of the Octopus, and I deal with Danny Casilearro and the octopus 171 00:13:52.159 --> 00:14:01.759 itself that was his name for this shadowy collective of ex intelligence operatives ex Alphabet 172 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:05.440 agency people. That's what I call them, Alphabet Agency. Again, he 173 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:11.399 didn't have a lot of options, and so I think what Danny needs to 174 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.799 be seen in is context. He needs to be seen in the context of 175 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.759 his times, and I think he needs to be seen in the context of 176 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.480 what was available to him. You know, many of us who are freelance 177 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.399 writers, who are freelance journalists, who are local and regional people. We 178 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:35.000 never really got the exposure that a national reporter could get someone writing for the 179 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:41.360 New York Times, Washington Posts, the Wall Street Journal, or obviously someone 180 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:48.759 who was a reporter on ABC or NBC or CBS or later on of course 181 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:54.000 CNN. So I think that's an important when I think about this, it's 182 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:01.279 important to contextualize this, especially in light of this brand new docu series from 183 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.720 Netflix. And before I go further, I do want to point this out. 184 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:11.879 Yes, I did do research into Danny Castilearro and the Octopus, and 185 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.679 I was interviewed about it. I've been interviewed, I guess over more than 186 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:22.159 a decade on I guess about three or four shows, including the O'Kelly effect. 187 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:31.000 I was interviewed on this show about Danny Castelero and the octopus and promise 188 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.240 I believe in twenty fifteen, although don't hold me to that. Yeah, 189 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:45.799 it makes sense. So yeah, and that was an interesting interview. Well, 190 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.879 look, I appreciate it. And yeah, clearly we've talked about this. 191 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.039 You know, we did talk about this a bit before, but i'd 192 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.399 never seen you actually write something about it at length. And that's I I 193 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.000 just want to write about it, right, I'll be honest with you. 194 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:03.879 Let me just come out and say this. I didn't want to write about 195 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.679 this, but I did research into it. I understood that it was dangerous 196 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:15.360 and I haven't said this before, but I'll say it now. When it 197 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:19.279 comes to Danny, my position then as now has been very clear he was 198 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:25.039 murdered. He was killed. I never bought the suicide ruling. I thought 199 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:29.799 it was utter nonsense. It was very clear that he was murdered. I 200 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:33.200 don't think it's a debate. I don't think it's something that shouldn't even really 201 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.960 be discussed. Anybody who looks at the details, and I won't go into 202 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:44.360 detail about them, you can look up my other interviews and listen to those 203 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:51.720 where I go into detail about that. But anybody who knows what or understands 204 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:56.080 that Danny's relatives have said he was afraid of blood. He didn't want anything 205 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:00.360 to do with blood, not to mention that he was someone who was very 206 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:04.880 modest, didn't want to be seen naked around people. So someone who's afraid 207 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.240 to be naked is going to be found naked, and someone who's afraid of 208 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:12.000 blood is going to be found in a bloody tub of water and is in 209 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:17.359 the bathroom of his hotel room with blood on the floor, mostly on the 210 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:22.880 wall, bloody towels. That makes no sense. According to the medical examiner's 211 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:32.960 form, it was an exanguinating hemorrhage with multiple incisions, right, multiple incisions 212 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:38.759 to the arm. That was what Castelero had died from. And so to 213 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:45.519 expect that this is going to be seen as I guess on you know, 214 00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:53.240 as self deletion or suicide makes absolutely no sense. That having been said in 215 00:17:53.279 --> 00:18:02.039 regards to Castilero and in regards to other aspects, it was very clear Danny 216 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:04.920 what Danny's death was. I was never really interested in Danny's death because I 217 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.799 understood it was a murder. The person that I was really interested in looking 218 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:15.200 into was not Danny. It wasn't even Bill Hamilton or Nancy Hamilton or even 219 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:18.920 Michael Riconoscudo. It was a guy by the name of Robert Booth Nichols. 220 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.839 That was the guy that I was really interested in doing research into. And 221 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:33.279 actually I was considered looking into and examining. And the reason that I did 222 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:41.400 it was because I understood how very hot this was, how dangerous all of 223 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:47.759 this is. And unfortunately, from what I'm hearing of this docu series, 224 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:53.839 I think a lot of this actuality and factuality is going to be lost in 225 00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:00.480 the weeds now because this has become so public. I think it's being or 226 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.000 at least from what I'm hearing, it's kind of being seen as the dangers 227 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:08.400 of conspiracy. I had to be pretty honest in upfront here. When I 228 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:12.039 looked at it this, I was looking into Inslaw, a real firm. 229 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:22.079 I was looking into Promise, a real case information software or piece of software. 230 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.480 I was looking into what happened to Inslaw, which is very real in 231 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.119 relation to the Department of Justice for whom they had a contract, a ten 232 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:36.839 million dollar contract. They were not paid in the remaining two years all true, 233 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:42.519 the fact that they were driven into bankruptcy and filed suit in federal bankruptcy 234 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:48.799 court, and the Federal Bankruptcy George George Bason said that what happened in this 235 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:56.559 case was through trickery, fraud, and seat. Those are true statements uttered 236 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:02.640 in that ruling, right, So where is the danger of quote conspiracy? 237 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.640 And I would argue, and I would ask these people that are making these 238 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.759 claims in these articles, whether it's Guardian, whether it's teach you and all 239 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:14.839 of this, where's the conspiracy? Well, can you tell me where the 240 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:19.440 conspiracy is? You know, where's the crazy conspiracy? Where is the non 241 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:29.240 factual, speculative rabbit hole? Because from my research years ago and looking into 242 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:33.759 this, maybe a rabbit hole, but it's a real rabbit hole right now. 243 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.680 That's what I wanted to get to you here. Look real quickly, 244 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:41.720 the idea that there's trickery, deceit and problems and bankruptcy. Got to tell 245 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:45.400 you that is not even close to being part of the conspiracy world. That's 246 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:51.880 just hum another day of business in America. This is normal. And when 247 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.799 it comes to contractors and disputing all of that, not part of the conspiracy 248 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:02.200 web. It's just part of the criminal or the dishonor or the nefarious part 249 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:06.880 of business whatever. And that is well, that's above board. I mean, 250 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:10.440 that's reality. That's all there is to it, is that everybody's business 251 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.680 goes this way. No, but we know it's kind of commonplace, all 252 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:18.400 right, now Castilero's you know, death and all of this, like I 253 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.440 you know, I sub mentioned Gary Webb's death at the beginning here, which 254 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.480 is you know what ten ten years after they run the ten or eleven years 255 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.839 after they run the segment on Unsolved Mysteries, which, by the way, 256 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.599 I wanted to look up while you were talking to remember when it ran. 257 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.880 It was ninety three they ran that. Gary Webb dies in two thousand and 258 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.200 four. But anyway, just to keep our dates straight here. But here's 259 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.480 the thing, the business part of it. No, there's no dispute about 260 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:47.960 it. It is what it is. It's on record, it's in court 261 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.759 papers. We can all see that. Now. The nature of use of 262 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:57.519 this software, how it was utilized, how there was you know, knockoff 263 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:03.799 versions of this sold the diff different countries, and how this becomes an interconnected 264 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.039 again, this is starting in the nineties. So this is not at the 265 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.240 time where we have the Internet we have today. This is not at the 266 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.160 time where we have the cyber threats we have today. But it seems to 267 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.839 me like the back door into every computer system in the world, if you 268 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.599 listen to some people's descriptions, is laid out in a software package. Here. 269 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:27.839 It gives leverage to anybody who decides to use it. And you know, 270 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.599 every time we seem to place something like this in the hands of the 271 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.720 intelligence community, what do we get, uh, chicanery, dark money flowing 272 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:44.359 around anything from you know, Iran contra, which is not conspiracy theory, 273 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.160 it's a real thing, you know, on and on to you know, 274 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.599 exactly what goes on with the tracking and tracing of foreign countries against their adversaries 275 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:57.880 or their allies when it comes to everything from cell phones to computers to you 276 00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.359 know, go back in time, then people used to be able to figure 277 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:04.799 out a way to track phone lines with a particular piece of hardware where they 278 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:10.039 could track down and you know, basically collect anything they wanted. A whole 279 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:15.160 lot more sophisticated in this case, so that there are actually multiple aspects here. 280 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:22.880 There is the technological aspect. There is the business you know, shadiness 281 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.960 and darkness and whatever went on there, theft by deception and so on and 282 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:33.119 so forth, and then there's the strings of debts. These to me are 283 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:37.359 three separate things, and if you convolute them together, I guess you could 284 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.400 end up in conspiracy theory land, as opposed to being in a place where 285 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.960 you're talking about facts like you were with the court case and all of that. 286 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:52.119 But I think these things coexist and co mingle in this entire story, 287 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:57.960 or am I wrong about that? Well, what's important is to know the 288 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:04.519 term conspiracy. See, so the problem with this docu series again, let 289 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:10.079 me just I don't know that I mentioned this at the beginning, but I 290 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:14.559 should say that when it comes to this part of the reason that I'm that 291 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:18.440 I wrote my article The Long Tentacles of the Octopus, which was the first 292 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:22.559 time I actually wrote about Danny and the Octopus twenty twenty. I had done 293 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:29.880 a blog piece called Laborrith, Inslaw and the Octopus where I look at both 294 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:34.079 Inslaw, Promise and the octopus. Okay, right, so that was twenty 295 00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:41.160 twenty twenty, so I wasn't looking to write again about this. I didn't 296 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.319 even want to write that blog piece, but I thought would be interesting to 297 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:48.279 have a lean, script down standard article. I did that very satisfied with 298 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:55.559 it. So what happened is I find out in February. Now get this. 299 00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:02.000 I find out about this docuseries last month. I'm on an Unsolved Mysteries 300 00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:10.519 Facebook group. Someone puts up a post showing the trailer from the Netflix documentary 301 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:15.920 or docuseries. That's how I found out about it. And so I did 302 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:21.680 not know anything about this docu series. Just to make that very clear, 303 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.279 certainly, these two guys didn't contact me. The name of these two are 304 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:33.200 Zachary Tritz and I believe Christian Hansen. They're the two I don't know filmmakers 305 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:38.160 are the right word for it, involved in this American conspiracy the Octopus Murders, 306 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:41.920 which I believe is the name of the docuseries right now. You had 307 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.720 recently on Dan. I think it's Dan Opperman who I've been on the Operaan 308 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.319 Report. He's also the Operaman Report. I had been on the Upperman Report 309 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:53.599 to talk about my blog piece. I think it was a couple of years 310 00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:00.240 ago or so a few years ago about Gary wabb and what happened to his 311 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:06.319 career, right, And so I've been on the show and it's very clear 312 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:15.720 he wasn't aware of this docusaries either. He was. I would actually recommend 313 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.799 that people listened to that episode of The o'celli Effects as well. I would 314 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.839 recommend that I appreciate that, because you know what, He's not the only 315 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:30.240 one who contacted me and was surprised. Apparently, other people that had offered 316 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:37.160 material to this docuseries, other people that had participated in some small way with 317 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.319 this docuseries, were not kept in the loop regarding when it was going to 318 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:47.160 be released or anything else. A lot of them found out like pretty much 319 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:51.440 looking at their own Netflix account and you know how they tell you like here's 320 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:56.000 an upcoming show or whatever that you might be interested in. There were people 321 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.519 that literally contributed to this thing that were unaware that it was a out to 322 00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:07.519 hit. And you know, as early as maybe the soonest anybody seemed to 323 00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.480 find out about it was January, which is very unusual because normally when people 324 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.119 know that a documentary's coming out, I mean, I get offered interviews with 325 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.720 people two months before they say, hey, look were this guy This documentary's 326 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:22.920 coming. You know, maybe they send me an advanced copy, or they 327 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:27.119 send me clips from it, whatever. I mean. Generally speaking, there's 328 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:32.599 usually a medium plans even where they try to promote this, and clearly this 329 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.839 is the kind of thing that they might approach. Not necessarily me, but 330 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.559 some people who are similar to myself. Ed should have known about it because 331 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.960 he knows some of the people involved. There's a bunch of people that could 332 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.119 have been informed ahead of time. So you're not alone in kind of being 333 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.160 surprised that all of a sudden this thing came out. And some people that 334 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:59.440 had directly contributed to it told me in messages that they didn't know about it 335 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:03.480 until, you know, days before or the week it released, you know. 336 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:07.279 Uh So it seems to me like, I don't know if this was 337 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:11.559 you know, fully planned out or you know, they wanted to hold it 338 00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:14.799 back for one reason or not. It's deliberate. There's no doubt in my 339 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.880 mind it's deliberate because they you have to look at the you have to look 340 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.720 at the material that they're dealing with here. First of all, I decided 341 00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.400 at first when I found out about this, I would ignore it because I 342 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.480 thought, hey, fair game, anybody can look into this. And then 343 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:34.640 later on I started looking into these two guys. You know, Zachary Tritz 344 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:40.519 is a filmmaker, Christian Hansen is a photo photographer for the New York Times. 345 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.839 And these guys are not journalists, These are not reporters, these are 346 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:52.119 amateurs. Zachary Tritz was interviewed. I think both Trites and Hanson were interviewed 347 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:56.519 in a publication called Hellgate. Okay, I think it's the New York based 348 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:03.720 publication. I was on the website and Trite himself admitted quote. The point 349 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.720 is, we're not trained investigative journalists, if there is such a thing, 350 00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:12.000 we just had on the job training. So first of all, you have 351 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:18.880 to ask yourself, why are two guys who are not reporters, who are 352 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:25.480 not or journalists who are not writers of any sort. Why are these guys 353 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:34.359 looking into Danny Castelero, the so called octopus in slaw and promise you also 354 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:38.559 then have to look at what I've been hearing over the past I don't know, 355 00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:41.640 a week or two or what have you in looking at you know, 356 00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.839 not only for people, but from what I'm leading from their own what they've 357 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:51.680 said in their own interviews and also in sort of text interviews, magazine so 358 00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:56.519 forth, and what I've been hearing from others, these guys went on road 359 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:04.240 trips and actually went to people's houses and knocked on doors. Now, considering 360 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:11.039 what I just mentioned earlier about this material and how dangerous it is, let 361 00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:15.920 me tell you how dangerous this material is or what this whole subset of stories, 362 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:19.880 if you want to call it this I've called it in the past. 363 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:26.319 I've called it a kind of universe, and every little element is a galaxy. 364 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:32.839 Right so it's I say that in my article. It's like a universe, 365 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:41.720 and every aspect, whether it's inslaw, whether it's Raconoshuto himself, whether 366 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:48.960 it's you know, everything else is like a galaxy, a different galaxy, 367 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:53.079 different part of this immense universe. Right now, just for the listener's edification, 368 00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:56.000 I put in a chat room. I put a link to that is 369 00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:02.599 the week that is your substack article, The Long Tentacles of the Octopus. 370 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.359 I put in the link there at the Ocelli chat room, as well as 371 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:11.720 a link to the Hellgate interview and a YouTube video with you speaking about this 372 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:18.359 article, as well as the IMDb for the Unsolved Mysteries episode which had uh, 373 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:23.319 you know which which featured the Castello murder. Anyway, just saying there's 374 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.839 a lot to tackle here now, Odd questioned mister Lanier, just really fast, 375 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:33.519 and then I want you to go on. Isn't it kind of suspicious 376 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:38.559 to begin with because I've done this sort of like uh interview thing where I've 377 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:44.480 gone on road trips to do interviews on a focus and I mean I chased 378 00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:48.039 down stuff with the JFK assassination this way, I got a chance to get 379 00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.680 to sit down with with District Attorney Henry Wade in the nineties, right, 380 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.559 So of course I went on that road trip and went and met with him 381 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.680 stuff like this. I've done that, and you know, it takes some 382 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.920 money, and these guys obviously had some money from somewhere to work with because 383 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:07.920 they went on a pretty extensive road trip. But short road trips like this 384 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:13.599 by researchers and such are used to be commonplace. I don't know about today, 385 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.680 used to be rather commonplace. But it is a hell of a topic 386 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:22.000 to pick up for your first effort as a documentary filmmaker. If this is 387 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:28.880 indeed their first efforts, and all indications here I don't know about their past. 388 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:30.680 Maybe I should look into it a little more, but it doesn't seem 389 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:36.640 to me as though they have any sort of long standing track record with documentary 390 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:42.000 filmmaking. Like you said, they're clearly not journalists in the conventional sense. 391 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.759 You know, what are these guys outside of an interested party who went on 392 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:50.240 a road trip and what magically turned it into a Netflix deal? I mean, 393 00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:54.039 there's probably a story within a story here, or unless I'm mistaken, 394 00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:00.799 what's your thoughts? Oh, well, clearly I'm curious as to where their 395 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:06.599 information about both Tribes and Hanson are coming out. I know what I've heard 396 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:10.119 from them on interviews. I know what I've read in terms of interviews they've 397 00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:15.680 done with magazines, and some of what I've heard and what I've read about 398 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:22.920 makes me wonder again with this material they some of this was done in terms 399 00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:30.160 of road trips where they shut up at people's houses supposedly unannounced and talk tried 400 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.920 to talk to them about this subject. And I'll be brutally honest, let's 401 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.799 look at Michael Rocana shooto alone. Look at the number of people that have 402 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:45.920 died who are connected to him. Now, these guys actually from what I 403 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:53.039 understand, showed up when Racana Shooto got out of prison and shot an interview 404 00:33:53.079 --> 00:34:01.400 with him. And again again, we're kinda Shooto alone. When you look 405 00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:07.360 at the amount of people in some way connected to him who were killed or 406 00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:16.800 who died very suspiciously, either suspicious deaths or outright murders. It's what I 407 00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:22.519 call the circle of death around Michael Ricona Shuddo. I don't know if I 408 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:24.679 should mention my nickname for him, but I call him. I think it's 409 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:31.800 the grim coder or the grim programmer, right, you know? I mean, 410 00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:38.920 is does this seem like some kind of subject worthy of taking road trips 411 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:44.880 and showing up at people's houses to have discussions about Well, see again, 412 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:50.360 I mean unannounced. That's suspicious to me. The weird part of saying it 413 00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:53.960 right right off the bat, right, the amazing part is unannounced because look, 414 00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:58.159 like I said, I made an arrangement to go meet with Henry Wade, 415 00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.159 right, So I had phone call ahead of time. I tried to 416 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.039 you know, coordinate maybe I can meet with somebody else in the area this 417 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.920 kind of thing, and I ended up with you know, a hot twenty 418 00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:10.440 minutes with Henry wade out of this long road trip I took from New Jersey 419 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:16.559 to Texas. But anyway, it was but it's odd to say that you're 420 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.960 going to go and do this. And let me just read from the Hellgate 421 00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:23.599 article, which is pretty funny. I just want to read the first paragraph. 422 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:30.880 You don't mind, because this kind of describes what is itching me as 423 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.280 I sit here feeling a bit like I want to scratch an itch here about 424 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.239 this is making me very curious mentally, I'm saying I'm not saying I'm literally 425 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:45.199 itchy, guys, I'm saying that something is is peaking my curiosity here as 426 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:49.679 to what the hell is really going on, because something sounds off about this. 427 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.679 But let's let's look at this article, which is authored by a guy 428 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:57.519 named Christopher Robbins, which, unless my memory's wrong, isn't that like the 429 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.000 name of the kid who's playing with the Winnie the Pooh in the story? 430 00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:06.679 Anyway, probably it's a made up, made up journalist name, and maybe 431 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.920 he is in whatever Forrest Pooh and Tigger and e or in. But anyway, 432 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:15.840 forget all that. That's just given credit where credits due, And again 433 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:22.199 this is from the Hellgate NYC dot Com interview. That's what it says here, 434 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.519 and okay, let's read from it. Five or so years ago when 435 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:36.719 photojournalist and Hellgate contributor okay, uh, Christilia Hanson, Okay, how Christian 436 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.119 it is? Christian? Sorry it was cut off there for a second. 437 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.920 Christian Hanson first described a vast and haunting conspiracy he'd spent countless hours investigating. 438 00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:50.800 I didn't know what to make of it. I was confused. What did 439 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:55.159 ancient government software have to do with an Indian casino in California? Question Mark 440 00:36:55.480 --> 00:37:01.599 Powerful Arms Dealers actually named their company Wackenhut. On a six hour road trip, 441 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:07.800 Christian did his best to unpack it more, but I was still lost. 442 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.760 Weird way to even structure the article. But let's just pick it apart 443 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:19.079 for a second. Five years ago, this guy got interested and had begun 444 00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.159 a journey because he had done extensive research, which they don't really describe here. 445 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.960 And then they followed up with you know. This week, Netflix released 446 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:32.840 American conspiracy The Octopus Murders, a four part documentary series that opens with the 447 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:38.199 mysterious death of journalist Danielee Danny Castillaro in nineteen ninety one and expands on the 448 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:44.000 story he was working on at the time of his death, a story that 449 00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.800 involved murder, treachery, and a high ranking and high ranking government officials. 450 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:54.159 The film, directed by a Christian's childhood friend, Zachary Tretz there, however, 451 00:37:54.199 --> 00:38:00.880 he pronounced his name, follows Danny Castillaro and Christian on parallel well reporting 452 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:07.000 tracks. I am biased. Christian and Zach are friends I have known for 453 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:12.920 years, but I think it's pretty damn good. All right, that's another 454 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.519 weird thing. Have you watched the whole documentary? And what is this about 455 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:23.480 Christian and Cassillaro being on parallel reporting tracks when he's doing this well only a 456 00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:27.679 few years ago, and Casillarro was clearly doing it way earlier. Got you 457 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:31.320 ahead? Well? Well? Number one, I have not seen the docuseries. 458 00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:35.000 I don't have Netflix, and I have no intention of watching it, 459 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:39.159 okay. Number two, other than what I have heard from other people in 460 00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:44.000 terms of the feedback I'm getting, I do not know what's in the docuseries. 461 00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.559 So what I've been told is what I know. It's all I know, 462 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:51.239 okay. And number three, I have absolutely nothing to do with this 463 00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:53.840 docu series and I have to come out and say that because I'm carlly going 464 00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:59.519 to get asked at some point. Let me just make this very clear. 465 00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:07.199 That's why I mentioned this before I was interviewed about Castilero and at el in 466 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:13.280 twenty ten March fifth, twenty ten, right March of twenty ten, I 467 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.760 had done my research either two thousand and nine or maybe early twenty ten. 468 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:22.639 Right now. The reason I say this is, according to what Christian Hanson 469 00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:30.519 has said in interviews, he found out about Castelero, and I guess eventually 470 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:36.400 Inslaw in all of this in twenty twelve. I believe he was in college 471 00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:39.719 at the time because he was working on some paper or project in regards to 472 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:45.800 Wackenhunt. And anyone who's looked into this, who's seen the docu series or 473 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:52.239 who's looked into this or read about it, knows about the Caabazon Reservation and 474 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.599 wlacken Hut in their role with what was going to be or what I guess 475 00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:02.719 maybe came to be, Cavazon Arms. And so it was twenty twelve, 476 00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:13.599 so I had already started doing research into this before this guy started finding out 477 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:17.000 about it. And I want to make this point. When I was interviewed 478 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:23.880 about this, on media monarchy. It's not like I got requests to talk 479 00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:30.719 about this on other shows. I now it's because of this documentaries. I've 480 00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.079 begun to think about some things, because I was interviewed about this three or 481 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:37.960 four times over the years, and I didn't give that much much thought about 482 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.559 it other than going on shows and laying it out. And again that's two 483 00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:45.599 and a half hours on media monarchy. But when I think about it now, 484 00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:53.079 I was probably one of the few people discussing this years ago. I 485 00:40:53.119 --> 00:41:00.320 don't know how many other writers or journalists or individuals researchers even and we're interviewed 486 00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:09.800 about Castilero and the octopus and insul on promise. So right off the bat, 487 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:16.519 I'm skeptical of this, of Hanson's role in all of this, right, 488 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:20.920 you know, hey, however he found out about it is however he 489 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.400 found out about it. He said it was in twenty twelve when he first 490 00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:29.280 started finding out. Okay, well, what I observe about this just to 491 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:30.480 try and maybe help you fill it in, and you could, you know, 492 00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:35.280 take my word any which way you want, is that over the years, 493 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:38.280 and I'm somebody who started with you know, cassette copies of May Brussel 494 00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:43.039 when I was a kid, right, and shortwave radio later on, and 495 00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.079 things like that. So believe me, I've been plugged into the less than 496 00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:54.159 mainstream media for quite a while. This topic started to come up a lot, 497 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:59.239 you know, after the year two thousand, really that's when it started 498 00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:05.079 to pick up, and generally speaking, it would be commentators like myself who 499 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.280 would come out and discuss this is interesting. And there were a couple of 500 00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:15.000 books, and there were a couple of not documentaries but like short pieces that 501 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:20.800 people had independently released, and they would state quite often that this is, 502 00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:24.079 you know, this is really the biggest conspiracy in the world that nobody wants 503 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:30.039 to examine. That was generally the pull, and over the years it's gained 504 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:35.519 a bit of traction because as the podcast world has expanded, a lot more 505 00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:39.599 commentators came out and said things, talked about it, added it into portions 506 00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:44.400 of their books where and the whole reason why I talked to you about it, 507 00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:49.519 like you said somewhere probably twenty fifteen, was because I wanted to get 508 00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:54.000 journalists views on what they thought of what happened to Castellarro and what this kind 509 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:59.760 of thing represented. Just like I've asked several journalists to comment and discuss Gary 510 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.320 Way, whether they knew him or they didn't know him, you know, 511 00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:12.239 like I even had friends among people that knew him at certain points. There 512 00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.440 was also you know, Mike Rupert, who was a broadcaster for a while, 513 00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:19.280 who ended up taking his life. And I am satisfied he did take 514 00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:23.079 his life because I know certain things about that. I'm fairly certain Michael Rupert 515 00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:29.159 took his own life. He was seen as connected to Gary Webb anyway. 516 00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:34.559 The bottom line is this. I was interested in it as what do regular 517 00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.920 working journalists on different levels think about this? So I asked people that had 518 00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:43.159 produced, you know, the mcnail Lair News Hour. I asked people that 519 00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:46.239 had worked for ABC, NBC, the Guardian I had worked. I'd asked 520 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:52.000 you. I asked anybody who was a practicing journalist at certain points, what 521 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:55.519 do you think of these stories? And what do you make of them from 522 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.159 your professional standpoint? What does it look like to you happen? That was 523 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.760 my interest in it as far as I could go. I don't fully understand 524 00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.480 the software. I don't fully understand I mean, I understand the thing with 525 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:12.960 the government contracts and how you know blackmail could be used against people and all 526 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:17.199 that part of it. I do understand that, but I have always said 527 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:22.519 I don't fully reckon with this entire you know, like you said, a 528 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:28.760 universe of stuff which has several galaxies in it. I understand parts of those 529 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:31.079 galaxies, but not the whole thing. And I always saw it as a 530 00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:35.159 rather you know. And there's a guy, well, Charlie Robinson's been on 531 00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.119 my show. He wrote about it. Good, right, here's what you 532 00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:43.800 got on Here's so a lot's changed. On the one hand, I'm the 533 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.679 only thing. The only reason I'm glad this docu series has come out, 534 00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:51.079 in one sense is personal. I don't have to do what I used to 535 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:55.159 call the verbal power play presentation and do bit by bit, detailed by detail, 536 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:59.360 fact by fact for two and a half hours, laying out everything. 537 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.360 Can watch the docuseriies, They can find out who Danny Cassilero was, what 538 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.920 Promise was, what the inslaw firm was, who Michael Riccona Shudo is. 539 00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:14.519 And I don't have to do that, So that I'm grateful for. But 540 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:22.159 the problem that we see here is the intent and direction of this docuseriies and 541 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:27.760 what's behind it in terms of press and media. You know what the feedback 542 00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.079 I'm getting about this. So again what people need to understand is this. 543 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:38.000 I cite my interviews now because at the time I could only talk about you 544 00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:43.800 know, the octopus and promise and all of that. It took a lot 545 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:45.880 of effort to do that, to lay it all out. Now I can 546 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.639 just talk about what was behind it again, I'll be honest. The guy 547 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:54.039 I was interested in was Robert booth Nichols. Robert boot Nichols, according to 548 00:45:54.519 --> 00:46:00.400 Ron Rosenbaum, he called him clark Gable when he did it article about the 549 00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:05.199 Strange Death I think it's called the Strange Death of Danny Castilero for Vanity Fair 550 00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.159 in nineteen ninety one. Robert booth Nichols was the guy I was interested in 551 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:13.800 because of his connection to Yakuza, and I was going to look into that. 552 00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:19.440 So it wasn't Danny. Like I said, I understood what happened with 553 00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:23.199 Danny and the problem with focusing on Danny alone, And I think this is 554 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.920 one of the biggest problems that to merge with this docuseries is if you just 555 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:35.440 look at Danny Castilero alone and focus on him. Then what will happen is 556 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:39.320 there will be a tendency to discredit him, and I think that's very dangerous 557 00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:44.840 and I think that's very disrespectful to him. Danny did the best job he 558 00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:47.440 could with the Like I said before, you know, he didn't have the 559 00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:53.280 resources. I have more resources now than Danny Castilero had as a freelancer. 560 00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:59.159 You know, he wasn't really able to go on shows and be able to 561 00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:02.079 do this what he could. But it's very dangerous to look at this. 562 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:07.639 You have to understand Danny Castillo was a writer, and what's important is the 563 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.239 story. What was he looking at? What's in flaws? What's the promo 564 00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:15.800 software? What was this? What was really behind this octopus? Who are 565 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:20.440 the people associated with octopus? You know who? You know? You know 566 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:25.800 e Howard Hunt and and the other people that are named. Who are these 567 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:30.519 individuals? And again the guy for me was Robert Booth Nichols. But that 568 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:35.440 is a very dangerous road to go down. Well, again, I had 569 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.880 other work to do, you know, It's not like it's not like I 570 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:42.320 was doing this on my own. I'm going I'd like to look into this, 571 00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.639 but there's only so far I can go, I gotta I gotta make 572 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:52.320 a living. Let's let's cut straight to the heart of this. Well, 573 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:54.880 for me, I have a different view of it. Because other people are 574 00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:59.239 looking at as a rabbit hole, as a gopher hole, as a sinkhole. 575 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:04.320 It wasn't that For me, Well, it was Yeah, I'm sorry, 576 00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:06.880 let's cut right to the heart of this because here here's the problem, 577 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:09.000 right, and and I found it. You know, I thought it was 578 00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:13.760 great when the movie Killed the Messenger came out. Again, I'm drawing a 579 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.800 parallel with Gary Webb here, and I'm gonna keep doing that. The thing 580 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:20.679 is, I thought it was great that that movie came out and that people 581 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.599 became more aware. That was the positive sign of it. But what happened 582 00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:30.239 because of that, and what happened because of the focus on Gary and what 583 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:35.039 happened to him, is that a lot of the legitimate work that he did 584 00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:42.480 and led other people to do got undermined because people got stuck on the story 585 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.519 about Gary Webb's death. And I'm not saying it's that it's not important. 586 00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:51.119 It is hugely important. This kind of thing should not be happening to journalists. 587 00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:53.760 Whatever you think happened to Gary Webb tell you the truth. It shouldn't 588 00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:58.519 happened. Okay, no matter how you take this story, and with the 589 00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:01.280 castellarro story, I agree with you. I don't see how anybody could see 590 00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:07.480 that as a suicide the way that that it went down from the limited facts 591 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.840 I know. But here's the here's the thing. Let's cut to the heart 592 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:15.519 of the matter. What is the important thing that is now going to be 593 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:21.719 obscured because people are going to undermine the legitimacy of what could have been learned 594 00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:25.920 from this situation, of what should have been learned from what Casillara was working 595 00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:30.199 on with you know best he could, and what could be worked on now 596 00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.280 to uncover what this all really means and what this all tracks back to. 597 00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:40.440 What is the thing that people are going to miss? Essentially tell us that 598 00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:45.840 part and uh and and then go go right on ahead and explain to us 599 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.280 the things that we need to know. And I don't care about if anybody 600 00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:51.360 watches that Netflix series. I got nothing to do with it either. I'm 601 00:49:51.400 --> 00:49:57.440 just pointing it out that it exists because this has spern new interest and and 602 00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.840 that's the way that I view it. Right, you have to deal with 603 00:49:59.880 --> 00:50:02.400 it and that's why I came out with my article, because my instinct was 604 00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:06.679 telling me, Okay, you're gonna have to probably go on a couple of 605 00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:10.760 shows and talk about this and get something out, even though I had written 606 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:15.679 Labyrinth. So let me look at Labyrinth at the end of my blog piece 607 00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:22.159 Labyrinth, which can be found at medium dot com slash at the Doctor fifty, 608 00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:25.519 I put it in context. Number one. What I look at in 609 00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:30.079 regards to the Promised software is, in my view, from my assessment, 610 00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:37.119 what it helped set up was what I called the spy state, the surveillance 611 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:46.119 networks, the increasing importance of penetration of what they call single intelligence, the 612 00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:53.400 use of big data, the use of software and of computer systems to track 613 00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:59.199 people and to track objects and to spy on people. That was important in 614 00:50:59.239 --> 00:51:06.320 regards to because Promise. If we are to believe what Racanas Shooto said that 615 00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:13.039 he had put in this back door to the software and pastor protected and it 616 00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:21.119 allowed this software to be used to gather information, gather whatever it recorded or 617 00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:23.280 was recorded on it, and to also be able to tract people. And 618 00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:29.760 they were trying to use that as a way during the Cold War. Obviously 619 00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:35.639 well at that point it was past the Cold War, but they're trying to 620 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:43.280 use that as a way to deal with whatever external foreign threats. So what's 621 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:46.599 important is in that regard to promise. It's what I call the spy state, 622 00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:52.440 and I cite Edward Snowden for example his revelations. The second aspect that 623 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:58.400 I note in my blog piece is to look at the nature of the nexus 624 00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:09.360 of intelligence ex intelligence even possibly you know, even ongoing intelligence operatives, the 625 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:16.039 criminal world, and other aspects of that. Now I cite Operation Gladioli as 626 00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:20.840 an example of that. Now, again, Operation Gladio is different because that 627 00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:25.119 is the stay behind armies, but I cite that as a way of secretive 628 00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:35.639 organizations, secretive groups that are engaged in clandestine operations, clandestine affairs, covert 629 00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:42.440 under the table. And so what I try to do in that blog piece 630 00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.639 is contextualize it for readers, and I think that's important when we look at 631 00:52:46.639 --> 00:52:52.719 this. Now, what's also important to note is about all of this is 632 00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:58.199 with this documentaries, and I had to come back to the docuentaries. What 633 00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:01.880 I'm getting from people is what left out of it, Like you had the 634 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:07.679 host of the Opperman Report on your show. He mentioned Alan Stanstroy, Right, 635 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:12.599 this was the contact that Danny Casilero had who worked for the NSA was 636 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:17.360 found murdered in his car in Airport, Washington, DC. So if someone 637 00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:22.360 like that was significant is left out, you also have to look at what 638 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:27.440 else is left out. What I heard is left out is Ken Thomas and 639 00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:30.800 Jim Keith, who wrote a book called The Octopus, The Secret Government and 640 00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:36.599 the Death of Danny Castilero. These guys did a book that Delta of course 641 00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:39.800 with Danny Castilero and all of these details back in the nineties. This is 642 00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:46.199 nineteen ninety five when it came out. But they're not credited in this docu 643 00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:52.880 series, right. I know they interviewed Sherry Seymour who did The Last Circle. 644 00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:58.679 But if you look at what's happening here, I in my article the 645 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.400 Last Tepic, the Long Tentacles of the Octopus, I quote from an article 646 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:07.639 I not only cite Thomas and Keith, but I cite an article that was 647 00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:15.280 written by Ken Thomas for the website Disinformation called Cassilero's Octopus, which talks about 648 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:22.599 aspects of Danny Cassilero promise and of course the Octopus and Ken Thomas has done 649 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.679 radio interviews about the octopus as well. Just for the record, yeah, 650 00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:30.559 go ahead, right, right, And so it's important to look at some 651 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:37.119 of the people that have done this. What you're seeing is it's a matter 652 00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:40.599 of the reason why I cited those two aspects before what I called the spy 653 00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:45.800 state promise in regards to its use for intelligence services. Right, it was 654 00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:51.920 sold to different countries, and it's and it's and its use by either law 655 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:57.280 enforcement or intelligence services, the so called spy state, surveillance, state signal 656 00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:02.039 intelligence. I also used the the examples of the nexus. This is why 657 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:06.920 to me, the octopus is no big deal. What Danny called the octopus 658 00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.760 no big deal. The problem is that people don't have a sense of what 659 00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:19.480 how government and business and the world really operates, not only in this country 660 00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:24.119 but in other countries. They only get a kind of top only view. 661 00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:28.639 They don't really see what goes on. You know, people have heard of 662 00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:31.079 the dark web. This is what I call the dark world. This is 663 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:37.320 the carbon based world, the non digital world, the world that we all 664 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:44.880 live in. And in that world, people like Rakana Shuddo, people like 665 00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:52.679 Robert Booth Nichols, people like like other kinds of operators, operatives, criminals 666 00:55:52.679 --> 00:56:02.239 and others sometimes intersect and they can, and you have to understand that. 667 00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:08.039 It's that unless you have an understanding of how the real world really works, 668 00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:13.880 it's all gonna seem odd to you. It's all gonna seem like a for 669 00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:17.360 lack of a better word, conspiracy. And that's why I think that this 670 00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:22.639 whole conspiracy angle has been pushed, because that's what I'm hearing in regards to 671 00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:28.320 this documentary, that it's about the dangers of conspiracy and the dangers of going 672 00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:31.000 down the rabbit hole of conspiracy. I just pointed out to you, Well, 673 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:37.519 this is fascinating dance law. There was a promise software you have to 674 00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:42.119 look at the factual and actual details and don't get stuck on all of these. 675 00:56:42.440 --> 00:56:45.760 But I guess it's hard to contextualize that for people. That's why you 676 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:50.440 get that view because people most people don't understand that well. And there it 677 00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:53.679 is no because just like you mentioned the dark Web, right, a lot 678 00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:58.199 of people reference this. They have no concept to what it is they're talking 679 00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:04.599 about. It is and exist part of the Internet's infrastructure that is just the 680 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:07.480 unlisted part of the Internet. It is, you know, that's really what 681 00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:10.679 it is. It doesn't come up on a Google search, okay, because 682 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:16.039 it's not indexed like other things. And the majority of the Internet actually exists 683 00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:21.119 in what people would call the dark web, in the unlisted fashion. There 684 00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:23.920 are tons and tons of pages, backup things, all kinds of stuff that 685 00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:30.840 you don't see surfing the web, okay, and in that dark area that's 686 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:35.199 not easily accessible unless you know exactly what you're looking for, all right, 687 00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:40.840 people can operate. So it is part of the regular infrastructure. It's sort 688 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.719 of like an underground kalo a city that nobody knows about. It exists, 689 00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:50.320 it's there, there's something built on top of it. It may even be 690 00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:54.000 partially responsible for what goes on above it, but it doesn't mean that people 691 00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:00.119 understand what goes on down there. And so there's that aspect of it. 692 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:01.679 And then, as you said, there's a lot of people don't understand how 693 00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:06.159 the world works anyway. Like I said, I'm not shocked by any of 694 00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:10.199 this stuff regarding the bankruptcy and oh there was theft, Oh there was some 695 00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:15.280 sort of fraud committed. Oh that's like every day you can go to a 696 00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:19.880 court, you can go sit and listen to things being discharged in bankruptcies and 697 00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:23.760 business courts, okay, every day, and listen to that people were deceived, 698 00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:29.679 people were misled, people were given false numbers, people were you know, 699 00:58:29.800 --> 00:58:34.480 their money disappeared, so on and so forth. It's commonplace actually, 700 00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:38.280 So some of this stuff that you're talking about is very commonplace, right. 701 00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:44.960 The idea that the intelligence agencies and we've certainly evolved since then. You know, 702 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:50.679 the spying tools that Edward Snowden, you know, allegedly revealed to the 703 00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:54.519 world were generations behind what they actually have at this point, you know what 704 00:58:54.519 --> 00:59:00.679 I mean, it's right since then as well. So there's a lot to 705 00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.480 this, But let's try and tie a bow around it, though, you 706 00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:06.360 know, and give people what they should really take away from this discussion. 707 00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:09.239 And I I'm really glad I went through this with you though, because it's 708 00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:14.360 very interesting to me to get as many perspectives as possible. And I know 709 00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:19.639 people are interested in the Castello story, they're interested in what in the hell 710 00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:22.760 the octopus actually is, And as I said, it's become part of the 711 00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:29.719 nomenclature. The octopus is now described by some people as literally the thing that 712 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:34.800 actually runs the world. It is the dark web, you know, because 713 00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:37.679 it is that part of the infrastructure. Then maybe you don't see in the 714 00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:45.239 daylight, but is definitely there is definitely, has always existed and continues to 715 00:59:45.760 --> 00:59:50.000 be very influential, and if you know how to operate within it, well 716 00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:52.840 you could probably get away with a lot of things you wouldn't want other people 717 00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:55.039 to see in the daylight. And that's just the way it is. Some 718 00:59:55.079 --> 01:00:01.639 people see it that way. All these things could be and Cassillaro's murder is 719 01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:07.639 something that should be investigated, better, should be revealed that people would actually 720 01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:10.719 happen. Is it a satisfactory ruling that he committed suicide? But is that 721 01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:15.119 actually the point of this? In a way, it is from a journalistic 722 01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:19.639 perspective, because as per usual, and as I said with the Gary Web 723 01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:23.199 thing, it should not be acceptable to us that something happens like this to 724 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:29.159 somebody who is a journalist who is doing that job. We shouldn't just accept 725 01:00:29.159 --> 01:00:32.280 that. But at the same time, a journalist can get themselves into some 726 01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:37.719 dark and dangerous worlds, whether it's the world of drug trafficking, human trafficking. 727 01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:43.679 You know, the intelligence agencies assassinations, murder for higher groups, et 728 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:49.360 cetera, et cetera. Journalists sometimes go into dark waters and bad things. 729 01:00:49.400 --> 01:00:51.719 Do you know, Pistol, how would you sort of, you know, 730 01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:58.159 put this bottle to gad Danny to a merit extent, Danny Castle, primarily 731 01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:02.159 in terms of his writing and his writing about what he called the octopus. 732 01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:07.760 And the important point that I mentioned, especially near the end of of my 733 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:15.000 article is what's important is to look at the structure of the story or stories 734 01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:22.519 that are involved here, not so much Danny himself, because again, as 735 01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:28.960 I mentioned earlier, if you focus on it from a personality aspect, then 736 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:37.320 you can get lost, because then it becomes about judging or affirming whether this 737 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:42.320 person, what this person was, or what he did or what he didn't 738 01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:47.119 do. What's important is to look at what he examined, what he investigated, 739 01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:52.400 what he looked into. Remember that Danny was a writer who found out 740 01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:57.440 from others in his contact with the it world of computer world, because he 741 01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:02.320 had owned computer publications. He found out about He found out about Promise Inslain. 742 01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:07.679 Promise happened obviously nothing to do with Danny. He found out about it, 743 01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:10.559 and in the course of finding out about it, talking to the Hamiltons, 744 01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:16.280 talking to Riconos Hugo. He then started looking into other aspects that he 745 01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:22.639 called the octopus. And the octopus is again nothing more. If I could 746 01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:25.760 bottle it up in some way, what if the octopus that's his name. 747 01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:31.360 But really it is the intersection and connection. It's what I call the dark 748 01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:37.559 world. It's the intersection and connection of criminal, elements of intelligence, operative 749 01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:45.159 elements of maybe other kinds of business, elements of various types of elements. 750 01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:50.760 We know there are black markets, and we know there are just markets, 751 01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:52.440 just as we know there is a dark web, and we know there is 752 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:58.360 a you know, a web as we know it, and this is no 753 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:02.719 different. But of course, this kind of shadowy, murky demimond, this 754 01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:08.440 underworld, this dark world, is something people don't know because they unless you're 755 01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:12.920 involved in it, unless you're a part of it, and unless you become 756 01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:16.800 aware of it, you won't know it. So it may seem like conspiracy 757 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:22.960 to you, right. So to understand this, you have to understand that 758 01:03:22.639 --> 01:03:28.280 a lot of these events that we've seen may have connections in terms of the 759 01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:32.039 people involved. So if an E. Howard Hunt sounds familiar, it's because 760 01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:38.679 he was involved in the Watergate scandal. And if other people sound familiar, 761 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:45.480 it's because of their involvement in other events and other scandals and other subrosa events. 762 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:52.320 That's why people talk about the nineteen eighty October Surprise, That's why they 763 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:57.000 talk about in rad Cultra. Later on in the eighties, that's why they 764 01:03:57.039 --> 01:04:01.119 talk about BCCI, Bank of Commerce and Credit International. All you have to 765 01:04:01.199 --> 01:04:09.920 understand is that this is an immense universe with different galaxy and that you have 766 01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:14.679 to examine. And when you understand that, you get a sense of the 767 01:04:14.800 --> 01:04:18.280 interstellar nature of all of this. And I say that so that people have 768 01:04:18.360 --> 01:04:23.960 a kind of visual metaphor a kind of way of relating to it. Yes, 769 01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:28.159 it's not easy to understand it first, but to me, this is 770 01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:30.920 the way the real world works. It's not just what's in the light, 771 01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:34.760 it's what's also in the dark. It's what's in the shadow as well. 772 01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:42.199 And so with my new article, The Long Tentacles of the Octopus, the 773 01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:51.039 focus is on this universe and the constellations, the galaxies of different events. 774 01:04:51.079 --> 01:04:56.119 Fair That's how I explain it absolutely. And you know what's important is the 775 01:04:56.159 --> 01:05:00.639 story or stories right, that's what's important. And you can go to substack 776 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:08.079 dot com. Okay, let's see it's Albert Lanier dot substack dot com. 777 01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:11.199 Go there, check out this article and I'll give you the link in the 778 01:05:11.199 --> 01:05:13.760 show notes if you're listening to the podcast, or you can go in the 779 01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:15.400 Ocelli chat room and roll it back. You'll see it's one of the links 780 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:19.599 I gave you regarding this, and you can go ahead and read Albert Lanier's 781 01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:24.840 article there. I would say Albert that you know what, the bottom line 782 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:30.360 here is that there is a legal and real world definition of conspiracy, and 783 01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:34.639 it's not always a bunch of theory. And you have to figure out the 784 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:40.199 nuances of these things and understand that there is a lot of connective tissue one 785 01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:45.119 way or another, and like you said, a huge, a huge universe 786 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:49.800 that contains many galaxies, and that kind of describes the real world of conspiracy, 787 01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:54.360 which again, remember it's one of the most common legal charges, is 788 01:05:54.440 --> 01:05:59.079 conspiracy to do something you're conspiring with someone. I've talked about it a lot 789 01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:02.639 of times on here. It's actually the more natural behavioral pattern of human beings 790 01:06:02.960 --> 01:06:09.239 to conspire with one another to accomplish things literally from the uh you know, 791 01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.639 from the Greek words meaning to breathe together. Okay, and that's what it 792 01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:16.719 is. There is real conspiracy, there is real connectivity. There is a 793 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:21.280 real world, and it's not always based on theory. So you know, 794 01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:26.960 I would urge anybody to continue to explore this topic as in any way that 795 01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:30.400 you can. And uh yes, So look to Albert Lanier's article again on 796 01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:34.320 substack. The link is in the show description. And no matter where you 797 01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:38.639 are, who you are, or when you are listening to this, I 798 01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:41.519 want you to remember that I am merely o'ceelly, all of you are indeed 799 01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:45.760 the effect. Albert Lanier was my guest tonight. And hopefully no matter where 800 01:06:45.760 --> 01:07:04.880 you are, and oh Chilly dot com, window Gold, Silver, the 801 01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:13.519 stock market, Wall Street, window dot Perhaps you're invested deeply, perhaps you're 802 01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:17.360 not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started Wall Street, windows 803 01:07:17.400 --> 01:07:23.039 dot Condo dot com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, 804 01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:27.559 understood these trends professionally for many years, and now he gives you the 805 01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:35.119 benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street streetdo dot go there, now go there, 806 01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:39.679 now go there now. If he was expressed like caller schools. There 807 01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:41.880 anyone else who happens to get on the aera of jelly dot com. You're 808 01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:45.039 not, necessarily replied, he us do, and we are not responsible. 809 01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:48.599 We're getting stupidity which might have ensued. Thank you. Nuclear holocaust. You 810 01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:53.280 know what uranium is, right? I think called nuclear weapons and other things 811 01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:57.559 like lots of You know what uranium is, right? Bad things things have 812 01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:01.239 done with uranium, including some bad things. Nuclear holocaust. You know what 813 01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:05.920 uranium is, right? I have been brief. Nuclear holocaust is nuclear holofons 814 01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:15.199 In Denial Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars 815 01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:19.640 became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book 816 01:08:19.720 --> 01:08:24.880 In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It 817 01:08:24.920 --> 01:08:29.000 exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. 818 01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:32.199 It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not earn 819 01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:36.960 from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with 820 01:08:38.079 --> 01:08:42.960 more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny into 821 01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:47.960 the light. In Denial, Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhancock. 822 01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:54.439 For more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your 823 01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:59.239 copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical force. The 824 01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:03.119 War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put 825 01:09:03.159 --> 01:09:09.359 the Kennedy presidency in the context of the times and revealed never before published information 826 01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:13.880 about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he 827 01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:17.560 had been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context 828 01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:21.479 of the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World 829 01:09:21.520 --> 01:09:26.319 War II, the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that 830 01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:30.199 followed, it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only 831 01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:33.840 wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the 832 01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:39.159 island aren't with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile 833 01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:43.600 launchers. Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they 834 01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:47.520 wanted to go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why 835 01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:51.039 and will show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, 836 01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:56.279 The Warstate dot com. Oh cool. Do you remember that time when Benjamin 837 01:09:56.319 --> 01:10:00.399 Fulford said that an Asian secret society was going to dis patch ninjas to take 838 01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:05.840 down the Illuminati? Oh that's interesting, Yeah the colatoon. Yeah did that 839 01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:11.760 ever work out too good? No, it didn't didn't. But here on 840 01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:15.399 Ocelly dot com Radio network, things work out a bit better, don't they? 841 01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:19.960 Much better? Much? I mean it's clear and understanding about the programs. 842 01:10:20.439 --> 01:10:27.800 The programs much clear, getting live people into it. They really have 843 01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:31.239 a good conversation going much better, much better, sing, I say, 844 01:10:31.279 --> 01:10:36.439 forget Benjamin Fulford and his ninjas and listen to the Ocelly dot com Radio Network. 845 01:10:36.640 --> 01:10:41.560 I agree, it's straight to the point, straight talk, and I 846 01:10:41.680 --> 01:12:51.439 like that idea dot com radio spat revelation through conversation. Let's just sit in 847 01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:55.399 the truth about the day assassination. Right, Well, what do you want 848 01:12:55.399 --> 01:12:59.039 to know Rudy Baker's wild claim? Oswald, girl friends, you knew Ruby 849 01:12:59.079 --> 01:13:01.560 and Barry against weapons? Really? I imagine I could claim I have four 850 01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:04.880 wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, Oswald, I'm 851 01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:08.800 the building and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on, 852 01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:12.920 now, has a real effort on the DFA assassination into claims. Go to 853 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:17.600 Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results 854 01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:23.359 for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and 855 01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:28.119 the known evidence in the case to get at well. A different perspective. 856 01:13:28.199 --> 01:13:31.439 Let's say you can get Judith Very Baker in her own words from the author 857 01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:35.800 himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at k I A 858 01:13:36.159 --> 01:13:42.840 s JFK at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects 859 01:13:43.039 --> 01:13:46.600 the many, many fantastic claims. Judith very Baker in her own words. 860 01:13:46.720 --> 01:14:31.159 Thank you for all the great information. Yeah.