WEBVTT

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The following is a presentation of Playfly
Sports properties in Michigan State Sports Properties.

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In one ward, I'd described Jimmy
Ray as iconic, impactful, intelligent.

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He's the first black quarterback from the
South to win a national title. Jimmy

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Ray is tough. Jimmy Ray was
a bad dude. Could not find a

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better football man. Jimmy Ray should
have been a head coach so many times

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over and I just caught like I
see it. He was why I learned

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what the word indelible miant. They
explained, indelible means that they could never

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take it away from you and it's
going to be there forever. Well well,

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well what a teaser that was right
there. For our special guests.

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It is Thursday February twenty thirty,
twenty twenty three. I'm your host,

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Jason straight On along my co host
Otis Wiley in ju Cho Cochprick in the

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House and this is Sparta. Be
sure to click the link and subscribe buttons.

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If you are watching us live.
Thank you for watching us live.

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It's going to be a great show
today, and don't forget to follow us

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on all of our social media platforms
and if you need to know how this

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is how. Thanks for tuning in
to This is Sparta MSU. Interested in

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hearing more from us, be sure
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Have an idea for a future episode, let us know in the comment

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section below. And now back to
the show. Gentlemen, how you guys

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doing today? You know, we
got a special guest, but we got

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to talk about the basketball game that
happened a couple days ago. Great event.

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Michigan State knocks off Indiana at home. Eighty sixty five free pancakes for

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everybody, by the way, But
what a great game. Otis. Absolutely,

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It's just throw that word from Jay. He always says absolutely. You

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got to confirm that it was a
great game. You know what obviously has

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happened on our campus. You know
winning, I would say winning solves everything,

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but winning does allow us to come
together and heal. And you see

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you know Alan Haller and a d
from IU. You know, the big

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step for IU to come out with
the shooting. That's supporting us and Spartan

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strong the student section. Man,
Like I got a text, uh,

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you know from someone stating, you
know, if it wasn't for that Spartan

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Sunday event, then we hosted to
you know, at least allow students to

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feel comfortable welcome to come back to
campus. Uh, we may not have

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had that strong showing of you know
of yesterday night with the zone and then

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just all of the fans coming back. It was a late night game,

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so nine pm. You can't really
you know, expect people to come out

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that late, but it was a
series of just love support. The players

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truly rallied through as y'all were watching. You had some phenomenal you know guys

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stepping up to play and win this
for not just himselves obviously for a Spartan

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nation. So you know, I
wanted to just know the place of note

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that I love this era of Tom
is like this is the age of his

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career where he's not afraid to shed
tears as a man, as a guy

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who was always in the public,
Like I really fully respect Tom for this

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or just it's okay to fully give
your emotions out and cry man and just

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to kind of say this is a
healing process, like he truly hasn't I

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don't know, had time to process
what has transpired. He's been kind of

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the spokesperson for us when it comes
to, you know, being out there

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individual being the spokesperson. So great, great game, Great kudos to our

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fans engagement team who really stepped in
to truly make sure that things were smooth

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and things that were you know,
receptives of everything after what happened. It

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was just a flow. Good game, man. So love that we got

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the dove because, like I told
you guys on our last show, I

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definitely left Bloomington really really bitter,
and I'm glad we got them got them

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back last night or two nights ago. Yeah, speaking of the emotion,

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you know is Oh did show a
lot of emotion the other day, JU

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And you know he had a great
interview after the ballgame with Scott van Pelba

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ESPN. You've been there for so
long and you've had incredible highs and you've

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mentioned individual last week, some difficult
lows this night, the significance for your

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community, the significance for your team, the significance for you. I'm asking

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you to put words to something that's
probably hard, but give me your best

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shot. Wow, you are asking
me to do a hard thing. But

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I'd say Scott that it was hopefully
two hours of joy, you know,

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because there's been a lot of sadness
here and I think that's one thing sports

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can do for you. It can
exhilarate you and make you all come together.

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There were fifteen thousand people there tonight
and I felt like I could give

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a hug to every one of them
by how my team played. Yeah,

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that said it all right there,
you know, those words that our coach

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Izzo said at the end of the
game in that interview with SVP there said

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it all. And just all the
tearor the tragic that happened in these lants

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and you know, a little over
a week ago now and just given that

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two hours of escape, you know, where people could feel normal for a

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bit, could go on and all
be in the same building and cheer for

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the same cause, cheer for you
know, their school, cheer for that

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pride, and it's just you know, Michigan State, this, you know,

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past week is just exuding you know
that extra pride. It mean,

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it means so much right now to
be Spartan and going out there and doing

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that and a steal of Otis's words. Kudos to everyone that was involved in,

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you know, making this go off
without a hitch. Kudos to you

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know everyone with the shirts, you
know, the Spartan Strong shirts in you

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know, in the student section throughout
the arena, and the you know,

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the tributes that were paid, you
know by Indiana, you know, singing

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the school Shadows, all that stuff, and getting those students back and giving

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that sense of normalcy that goes a
long ways. It sure does. Tyson

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Walker, huge game from him the
other night, a lot, a lot,

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a lot of great performances, gutty
performances from Michigan State. Status quo

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of a Tom Izzo led team,
what Misigan State fans have grown accustomed to,

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especially as you get closer to March, given the tragic circumstances just happened

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a week ago. Yeah, you
know, you think about we always let's

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break it down basketball's terms, Like
clearly we're a football show, but defense

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and rebounding wins games. And you
see that we were all over the place

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and just rallying it around each other. You had freshman Jackson Cohler stepping up

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against All American you know, power
forward center IU. You know, it's

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just the opportunity to see that.
You know, we we rose to the

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occasion, man, And you know
our first it started out a little bit

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ugly, right, you know,
they got ahead of us, and I

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was like, oh, man,
like I don't know, man, and

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then you just start to see them
rally through and we ended out on a

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great note. Man, So definitely
excited that we're able to go into our

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next game and you know, at
least get a little bit up in the

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rankings for a better seeding for big
ten play a conference tournament, and you

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know that big ranked win gives us
a little belt knots on our belt to

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you know, get a hopefully a
better seed when it comes to NCAA Sunday

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selection. Yeah, I like that
otis. You said defense rebounding, but

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don't forget free throws because they were
money. Bro May Maddy Mady Man,

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Madi look Mady. So my man, Oh my gosh, my man goes

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after it and gets it. There
was one you probably saw. There was

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one where it was a loose ball
and I saw him jet and just knew

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it was probably gonna go out.
But go for it almost saved it.

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And like I just saw Izzo with
that, like you know, is those

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famous and that's where you were like, man, like he wanted it as

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bad as obviously anybody out there,
but Madi Mady was the glue that kind

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of kept that going with Swatten Rebounds
got the dunk on a on uh TRACE's

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TRACE's head, which is great because
I remember he got that on on Joey

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Howser last last game we went there. So just great elements. Man,

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seeing a lot of faces, familiar
faces, and the stands just hugging like

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no one was afraid to give you
a hug or say hey, how are

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you doing. I think this opened
up an opportunit for everyone to just come

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together closer. Yeah, speaking of
what you brought up a ben in to

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go like the Spartan strong shirts and
we want to make everyone aware of the

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situation that's happening around the traumatic incident
that happened, and there are proper channels

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to go through in order to get
the right licensed equipment, shirts and things

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like that. This is a tweet
that was sent out by Erica Austin,

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who runs the licensing department at Michigan
State. Yeah, man, it's unfortunate

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that we obviously have to address this, but I think in any certain situation,

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you know, this happens. You
know, this happens in any big

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event, super Bowl, NCAA tournament, March Madness. You just have people

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that really you know, taken upon
themselves to produce merchandise sell it and not

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get the proper channels or protocols where
others have done the right things and going

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through the proper channels of becoming a
licensee that's approved from the university. And

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so just be aware, like it's
almost like you've got to verify when you're

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purchasing something. You need to be
aware of what you're purchasing it through.

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But we also are providing you the
steps in you know, processes that Erica

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and her team has put together to
go through the right proper channels to order

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Spartan Strong shirts that also the proceeds
will go to the Spartan Strong Fund.

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And so just be aware of,
you know, basically buying fake merch that's

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not fully licensed and approved. Well
said, you know, had to cover

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it. Just want to make sure
everybody knows, you know, this is

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a show that is brought to you
by Michigan State and the properly licensed people

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on here thanks to otis. So
we want to appreciate. I appreciate that

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Straight gave me the official status that
I properly I'm an official proper oh boy.

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But look so so speaking of you
know, our sponsor, I think

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I hop they got a free short
stack because because they did hit seventy points

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a couple of days ago, there's
going to be a National Pancake Day on

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February twenty eighth. Talk about that
a little bit, fellas. Yeah,

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look, I don't know who loves
pancakes more. Is it me or Ju

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or is it you Straight. I'll
let Jay you take this little he loves

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some pancakes. I'm all in for
the pancakes. Scan the QR code.

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Yeah, pancakes love it. I'm
just a traditionalist. You guys are prior

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of fancy with your paint, hocking
chips everything. Give me playing pancakes,

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butter and extra syrup. That's it. Yeah, So I'm with you that

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National Pancake Day February twenty eighth,
Go support it. The proteins are going

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to a good cost, the Spartan
Strong Foundation just part Strong Fund. I'm

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00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.759
sorry, you know, if you
got an opportunity to now scan that QR

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code, all information is there.
It's for a good cause and you get

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to you know, enjoy, you
know, while supporting a good cause.

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Yeah, and just to be clear
too that it's all Michigan participating stores,

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00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.720
like all I hop stores in the
state of Michigan. So this is very

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00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:15.519
huge, you know, one stepping
up I Hop stepping up to one to

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do their part. They've already did
part with Kyle providing food to the to

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the responders that were helping with the
aftermath of the mass shooting. But go

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00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:30.480
to your local I Hop and proceeds
one buying pancakes too. You have the

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00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:35.600
opportunity to donate. If you don't
get an ie Hop and you don't love

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00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.399
breakfast, you still can scan that
QR code and donate directly. So just

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00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:46.440
keep that in mind. And all
the funds go directly to the official Spartan

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00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:50.759
Strong Fund for Michigan State Athletics.
We have it here on the screen for

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00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:58.639
you ww dot go dot m s
U dot EU backslash Spartan Strong International House

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00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.600
of Pains. I have stepping up
to the plate once again, and here's

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00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:09.440
a message from our friends at i
hop Right now, I Hop the six

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dollars Rudy two d Fresh and Fruity
Combo is back two eggs, two bacon

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strips, and two fruit top pancakes
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and earn free food with every order. Dining only limited time at participating locations.

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Prices may vary. Well. When
you join I Hop's new rewards program,

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the International Bank of Pancakes and start
stacking PAN coins towards free food,

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00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.279
would you get a smile on your
plate? Download the app and join the

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00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:45.440
rewards program today. Well, guys, moment everyone's been waiting on to see

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the man in the myth, the
legend. Jimmy Ray who joins This is

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00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:54.720
Sparta right now from North Carolina.
Now you doing, Jack North Pack.

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Yeah, Hello, it's a pleasure
to be on. Hello to all the

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Sparkan Nation and the Spartan Strong.
I was observing of the game the other

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night. It was quite a quite
a healing atmosphere, and it was great

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to see the Sparkan Nation UH come
together and and also pull out a victory

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over I U, which was much
needed. But I'm glad to be a

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part of this today and hopefully as
the healing continues in East Lansing, all

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the prayers of all the Spartan people
around the around the nation. Uh,

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well, well received. Definitely definitely
appreciate that. I appreciate you taking some

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time, you know, off the
golf course to join us for a little

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bit here. Yeah. Well,
we had a couple of nice days down

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in North Carolina. The last this
week we've had some temperatures in the mid

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seventies, which is unusual for February. But uh, I live here in

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the Forest Creek, and we have
two golf courses, and so with the

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good weather, we've been able to
take advantage and we have to play something.

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Yeah, go ahead and rub it
in where we uh were shutting down

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the streets right now freezing rain and
sleep, but definitely go ahead rub that

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in. Yeah. Yeah, I've
always had a cutoff of East slash in

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October. The fifteenth is my final
day. I don't go the way that's

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that's in Michigan pushes you to like
into October, right the game Michigan game.

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Yeah, yeah, I remember,
you know specifically, you know,

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I'm going to jump ahead because we're
going to go back again, but out

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from the first encounter I had with
you, really in with you when you

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were my coach with the Jets,
and uh, the first thing you said

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to me was and it was that
recap the anniversary of the ten ten tie

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when they brought out the sixty six
team and the retired Bubbles jersey, and

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it was that downpour, but you
had it was a Saturday night and you

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had a game somewhere else, so
that they flew you out there and you

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stood in that rain and there and
uh, I think you even had a

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couple. I'm never going to go
there. But the first day I saw

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the adjustment, silly like you had
me out in that rain and you guys

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got to blew that game, remember
that? Yeah, yeah, well yeah,

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they flew me in for the for
the ceremony. I had to do

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an ESPN presentation, doing the doing
the day, but I had to get

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back to Buffalo because we played the
Bills the next Sunday, so I had

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to leave at halftime of the game. And when I left, after standing

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in the ring and Bubble's jersey was
put up in the in the Ring of

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honor, a name was put up
in the Ring of honor. His jersey

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was retired. Notre Dame was a
hit, like thirty four to seven or

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something, and so I took the
flight into Buffalo and I didn't want to

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I went to the hotel. I
didn't want to ask what the final school

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was. And I got there to
see the end of the game and Michigan

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State had come back. I don't
know if it was led by you,

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but they made a come back.
That's one of that's one of the reasons

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you took me in New York there
it was huge you you yeah, man,

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I recall we were leading, Yeah, the second was where you were

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touched, right. Yeah, we
were up and then we blew that lead

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because they wanted to give a high
coach blame our office of coordinator for that

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one. You need a better play
calls. But everybody knows it very well,

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coach. So you know, going
back to your time in North Carolina

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growing up as a young man,
right, we want to go back to

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those times and your recruitment ultimately to
Michigan State and the ESPN or no NFL

232
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did a great show on you the
Indelible where it talks about your recruitment in

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that game. I believe it was
an East West Shrine game. Let's let's

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take a listen here. Any games
come back to memory in terns of where

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you dominated. The most fun for
me was the East West Shrine game.

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I scored touchdown pass through two,
I ran one. I ran a kickoff

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back for a touchdown. Before the
final drive when the game was in the

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balance, they put me in as
a free safety and intercepted the past.

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It was a bad wood. Everything
was yeah, and I had a day

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and I won the Most Valuable Player
award. I was on top of the

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world. Was that the moment that
you knew like I really got it right?

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Or college scholarships already coming in at
a time work, Yeah, they

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were coming in from historical black schools. No athlete out of e Smith had

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gone to a white school or to
an integrated college. My thought was that

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I was going to go to an
HBCU. What changed the trajectory of everything

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00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:48.720
was the Most Valuable Player trophy was
presented by cal Stole and he was an

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assistant coach at Michigan State. And
that's ignited and started my recruiting to Michigan

248
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State. M HM, So did
coach talk about that? I mean,

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it was like five touchdowns in one
game in high school running intercepts. I

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come on, coach, Yeah,
that's incredible. I had. I had

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one of those days that you only
dream about. But UH and it and

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it came at the right time because
there were two two All Star games in

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the state of North Carolina at the
time. UH. The white players played

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in the North South Shrine Game,
which was North Carolina versus South Carolina.

255
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I was I was voted to play
in the game, but I was it

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was illegal for me to play because
my school was UH the Negro High School

257
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Athletic Association, and they wouldn't allow
me to play. UH. And then

258
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the the the the segregated schools in
the state of North Carolina played in there.

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Their bowl game was the East West
Shrine Game was held in Durham,

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North Carolina, and all the best
players in the East played against the best

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players in the West. And I
won the starting job as a quarterback and

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for the East in that game and
won the most Valuable Player award. And

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as I mentioned, cal Stolee,
who was an assistant coach at Michigan State,

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was recruited in the South and he
presented the most Valuable Player trophy.

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The player Award trophy. Uh,
And that's what was ignited and started my

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recruitment at Michigan State MHM coach.
You know, I had the privilege of

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going down there and working at Southern
Methodist University and there's there's there's a player

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by the name Jerry Lebias. Kind
of you guys are in that same kind

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of specially you up here on the
north of mission can stay in him at

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the Southwest Conference. Then at that
time, I mean just talk about the

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one coming up here making that making
that decision to come here to Michigan State.

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But did you know at that time
the pipeline that you were creating or

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opening up for Michigan State by making
that decision, because it was not the

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most favorable decision to come to a
p w Y school versus an HBCU.

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Uh No, not at all.
Because I I grew up under in the

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in the South, as Jerry did, under the gym Crow laws, where

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you wasn't allowed to play or compete
athletically against the white schools. The white

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players in the state were separated.
And my my recruitment uh to Michigan State

279
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was kind of an anomaly because uh
one, I played a position that that

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didn't let itself to that I would
be successful in college. And during the

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recruitment period, I didn't go up
to Michigan State until the spring of the

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year, like early summer for on
my recruiting visit, and I think that

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was by design. And when I
got there, the weather was lovely and

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it's pretty and those storm the snow
I did. I had no idea that

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he could get his cold, that
the air could get his cold as a

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guy in Michigan and the snow.
The first time I saw the snow,

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I went back to bed. I
was living in East Wilson Hall. I

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went back to bed and the assistant
coach, Hank Bullet, came and knock

289
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knocked my door down and asked me
what I was doing. Why I wo

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wasn't in class, And I said, it's snowing because in the state of

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North Carolina. In North Carolina didn't
get much snow, but if we did,

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the school was out of canceled.
And so I thought the same thing.

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And I looked out, looked out
the window across that field toward the

294
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Duffy door. The building wasn't there
then, but that's still going toward the

295
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stadium and the smoke stacking. As
far as my eye could see, it

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was nothing but snow. And I
said, no, Boddy, I went

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back to I went back to bed. But I soon learned he said,

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well, if you're not going to
school in the snow, you're not going

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to class. You won't be going
to class until May. So I figured

300
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out I had to I had to
gear up and get some gear to to

301
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to make that trek across the across
the campus get to get over to Berkeley

302
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Hall. But uh, it was. It was quite a quite a transition

303
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for me, wonder Weather. Two
being a being playing with athletes that were

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white, playing for the first time
with white athletes because I didn't that had

305
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:04.000
happened in college, and then trying
to be a leader h and be the

306
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quarterback, which was a negative.
Also, so being able to being allowed

307
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to eat in the Kellogg Center,
in the restaurant, being allowed to stay

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in the hotel, all those things
were first for me because in the segregated

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South with the gym crow loogs,
you couldn't eat in a restaurant and you

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couldn't and had to go to the
back of the back of the back door

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of the theater to go in the
movie, and you couldn't You couldn't drink,

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and you couldn't get water or go
to the restroom. They had black

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colored only restroom, colored only water
fountains, white only bathroom. So all

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00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:52.839
of that was a transition for me
my first year there at Deslancing. Yeah,

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00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.119
so talk about that transition. How
was that? Like was it were

316
00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:00.160
you apprehensive at first? Like to
you know something some points drinking out a

317
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:02.960
water fountain? You know, like
what's that? Like? You know,

318
00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.519
shock? What was that? Like? Well, well, it was,

319
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.839
it was different. But that happened
when I was when I was a young

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kid. The water fountain incident happened
when I was a young kid. I

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woul't think I was. I hadn't
gotten to my I wasn't. I wasn't

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a teenager. I was probably nine
at eight, nine or ten years old

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or maybe a little little maybe eight
maybe seven or eight. But I was

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down in the downtown Feedville with my
mom in the in the store, uh

325
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and it was cresst H Department store, and not paying attention, I left

326
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my mom. She was behind me, and I went to get some water

327
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and I fell a snatched me by
the shoulder and said, boy, get

328
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over here, and I was at
the white water Uh. And unbeknownst to

329
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.839
me at that that age, at
that time, I didn't know. I

330
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:14.079
didn't I got the lesson about Jim
Crow and the colored only water fountains and

331
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.400
the colored only bathrooms, and uh, the white only water fountains, and

332
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:23.319
so I understood from that point on. Uh. Then I got the lesson

333
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:30.000
about Emmett Till because that wasn't that
far removed from my from my era,

334
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:33.920
my age group, all the black
kids in the South, black boys in

335
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.400
the South, was made aware of
the killing of Mt. Till Uh in

336
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:45.680
Mississippi when he visited from Chicago,
and Uh supposedly UH made an off,

337
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:52.440
off off comment to a white lady
in a store and then he got taken

338
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:59.400
out of bed at night and beaten
and a cement block tied to him and

339
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.039
UH put in the bottom of the
river. So that story in the South

340
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:08.920
was what every young kid grew up, every young black kid grew up understanding.

341
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.799
And so when we were downtown,
when we were old a little older

342
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:18.359
and would go by ourself, we
knew that white lady was coming down the

343
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.400
street on the side of we were
on the go over across over the street,

344
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:29.440
and so there would be no incident
involving white people because of the Jim

345
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.599
Crow laws. No, man,
wow, I mean you think about that,

346
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:38.079
coach when we talk about what's been
what happened at Michigan State over a

347
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:44.519
week ago, and the trauma and
the healing process that has to occur that

348
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:49.000
we know about now from mental health
professionals, going back to that point in

349
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:55.079
your life when you had that heavy
burden on your mind as a young man,

350
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.359
really young man, thinking about Okay, if I don't if I say

351
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.119
something wrong, accused of doing something, I could be killed because I mean

352
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:08.839
speaking to a white woman or whatever
that was at that time. Then you

353
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:14.640
go into a locker room that's integrated
in East Lancey, you find yourself there,

354
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.400
talk about how how that was for
you being around those players with your

355
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:25.440
experience as a young man being what
it was back in North Carolina. Well,

356
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:30.519
Jayson, I think I think what
helped the transition in the process was

357
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:41.559
was Duffy and and I was a
class behind Bubba Bubba Smith and Jean Washington

358
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:48.519
and George Webster and Jimmy Summers h
and Jess Phillips, all of the guys

359
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.640
that came transitioned out of the South. Uh. I came into class and

360
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:59.039
my host when I visited there was
Charlie Matt Dogg thorn Hill, who was

361
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:04.200
a linebacker on the team. UH
So I had I got. I got

362
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:10.400
some counseling and some education from the
guys that had come before me. And

363
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.400
I think the thing that really helped
was the fact that when I went,

364
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:19.960
freshmen wasn't eligible. Freshmen wasn't eligible. You were separated really from the varsity

365
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:25.319
and you and you stayed in your
own little cocoon in practice, and you

366
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:29.519
only got out of that when you
went up to the varsity field do to

367
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.920
get beat up by the varsity players
if they lost, if they lost the

368
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:40.079
game the week the week prior,
uh they had the scrimmage against the freshmen,

369
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:41.599
and they were mad. They didn't
want to practice. They were mad

370
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.200
because they had to practice against us, so they tried to rutilize us.

371
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:52.400
But I think the fact that freshmen
wasn't eligible making the transition, living in

372
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:59.640
the dorm, making the transition was
made somewhat easier by first the collection of

373
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:04.920
fresh and that were there that were
in my class, that were that came

374
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:10.640
from the South, we all kind
of uh endeared ourselves to the term homeboy,

375
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:19.960
and homeboy took on a real meaning
because that meant that all of the

376
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.440
black athletes of Michigan State that were
from the South, we referred to each

377
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:29.599
other as homeboy, and that endeared
us to one another, and it had

378
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.880
the context of we we you got, we had each other's back. And

379
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:43.960
so my experience as a as a
freshman going to classes ironic because missus Pauline

380
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.960
Adams, who was my American thought
and language teacher, became my mentor,

381
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:57.039
became a mentor of mine and for
life, she kind of took me under

382
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.720
her wing. Uh. And it's
ironic that when I was in the South,

383
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:06.480
I was I couldn't talk to a
white woman, be near a white

384
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:10.359
woman. And this lady, her
husband was doctor Waller Adams, who was

385
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.640
once the interim president or maybe twice
the interim president of Michigan State. And

386
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:20.920
she taught in the English department,
and she put her she put her wings

387
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:24.640
around me and carried me through my
freshman year and helped me all the way

388
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:30.559
through. And we developed a lifelong
friendship. And she still I could see

389
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:34.480
her every time I go to these
slants. When I called her periodically,

390
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.920
She's one hundred and one years old
now, but she is. She was

391
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:45.359
the perfect angel for me. And
as I said before, it was ironic

392
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:51.079
that I was I had to avoid
white people and white women in the South.

393
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:57.559
But the angel that took care of
me and made helped the transition,

394
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:02.240
helped me transition to the Michigan State
and at college life, uh was the

395
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:10.559
white lady of missis Pauline Adams.
This is this is I got so I

396
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:15.960
mean, I got so many one
gratefulness is kind of coming over me.

397
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.440
Of I wouldn't be obviously where I'm
at to day, any of us,

398
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.159
none of us will be. And
it just validates the selection of like,

399
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:30.599
hey, this is this is why
I love our school so much, is

400
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:35.360
that it provided us opportunities. And
I was born in Austin, Texas,

401
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.960
but all my family moved from Mississippi
to Flint, Michigan for the automotive industry.

402
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:43.880
And so you know, I've heard
my stories with my grandfather, I've

403
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:49.880
heard you know, racism, and
you know, did you encounter anything that

404
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:55.880
was even close to what you obviously
countered back at home in this transition or

405
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:02.679
was campus really that safe haven space
of of welcomeness. And basically I really

406
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:06.800
want to know is when you guys
went out there to win the national championship,

407
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:12.320
is like, how was campus and
how was just the atmosphere of being

408
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.840
wearing that green of white truly proud
because you were granted that this opportunity to

409
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:22.199
come play football for the Green and
White. Well, it's interesting that you

410
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:31.280
allude to that because we were right
in the middle and the heights of the

411
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:37.840
civil rights movement in nineteen sixty four
when I came out of high school.

412
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:47.800
But Michigan State had always had a
history of playing by having black athletes,

413
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:57.119
and great black athletes Don Coleman and
Lee were Bolden and Ellis Duckett and Willie

414
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:01.199
Thrower, who was the first black
quarterback at Michigan's stay in fifty four and

415
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:07.519
fifty five, even though he didn't
start, he was the first black quarterback

416
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:14.159
at Michigan State from New Kensington,
Pennsylvania. So when I made the decision

417
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:19.960
to go, initially I was wanting
to go to the University of Minneso,

418
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:25.639
Minnesota if I was going to a
Division one school, because Sandy Stevens was

419
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.400
from played at Minnesota and played in
the Rose Bowl and led him to a

420
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:39.599
national championship, and I thought I
knew that he played, so I figured

421
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:45.440
if I could go to Minnesota,
I would also get a chance to play.

422
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:54.119
But I went to Michigan State and
the campus was the campus was very

423
00:36:54.719 --> 00:37:04.360
receptive, particularly to to the black
athletes because it was it wasn't that many,

424
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:08.880
wasn't that many black students. They
increased that my sophomore and junior year

425
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:14.159
when they started all of the programs
in Detroit. But there were no incidents

426
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:21.320
that we encountered that were anything similar
to what we had experienced in the South

427
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:27.519
and doing the gym pro period.
So that made football kept us in the

428
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:37.400
cocoon and UH, and then the
campus itself was accustomed to being in classrooms

429
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:44.400
with black students, and so the
relative acceptance that we received. There were

430
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:49.519
no incidents. Even with the players
UH. Most of them were from Michigan,

431
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:53.840
UH and from Boston. They were
from all over the northeast part of

432
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:59.800
the country except for the group of
us that came on the underground railroad from

433
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:05.719
the South, and we didn't we
didn't encounter We bonded together and I think

434
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:13.039
it took off in nineteen sixty five, and we we won the national championship

435
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:19.559
in nineteen sixty five, which was
a great experience. The campus game alive,

436
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:24.559
and we were we were the first
team in ten years to get an

437
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:30.519
invite to the Rose Bowl. We
went to the Rose Bowl after the sixty

438
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.639
five season. We were ten and
zero and number one in the nation and

439
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:43.800
everything was good. Uh. We
went to Disneyland and we got out of

440
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:49.639
the snow, and but we did
everything. We did everything but win the

441
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:53.960
game. But back during that time, they voted for the national championship.

442
00:38:53.960 --> 00:39:00.440
The bowl game was like a bonus. They had already voted US national champions

443
00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:05.679
before we went to the bowl game. And we lost the Rose Bowl to

444
00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:09.760
u c. L A fourteen to
twelve. Uh, but we were already

445
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:16.039
h annoying a national champions because of
the season we had had prior to the

446
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:23.559
bowl games. A little bit different
now. So yeah, so you guys,

447
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:27.159
do you feel you guys lost that
Rose Bowl because you guys are already

448
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:32.360
national champion here just enjoying your trip. Yeah, we were. We were.

449
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:37.320
We were rather than rather than splashing
on the peer perfume, we were

450
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:42.880
drinking it, you know, we
were we were all we were all full

451
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:46.079
of ourselves, and they were blowing
us up and jolly green giants from the

452
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:52.960
Midwest. And we were a big
football team, Bubba and George Webster and

453
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:58.519
Pat Gallanol and Goober. We were
a big team. And we had played

454
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.400
UCLA open with them in the first
game of the season at home and he's

455
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:07.920
Lansing that year and beat him soundly. And so they were beating us.

456
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:15.559
Liarry Prime rib who could eat the
most prime It's to Disneyland and taking pictures

457
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:20.599
with the with the Disney Parade queen, and we were just eating it up.

458
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:29.679
We were all up on sunset whiskey
of Go Go and just like my

459
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:37.920
kind of party valley right there.
Duffy tried to rein us in. He's

460
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:42.880
caught wind of the practices and near
the end of the the first week of

461
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:45.679
this week leading up to the game, and he took us up to a

462
00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:54.400
monastery up in in uh up in
north of Pasadena, and we had to

463
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:59.239
stay in the monastery and the only
way we could they took all the courtesy

464
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.039
cars away from and he tried to
get us back on and even kill but

465
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:08.519
were sluggish and we didn't play well
in the game. We didn't play anywhere

466
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:14.400
near our potential. We lost.
We lost the game fourteen to twelve.

467
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:20.039
But it was a fun year and
it led It gave impetus to the next

468
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:27.719
year, the nineteen sixty sixth season, which in the Big Ten at that

469
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.719
time they had a no repeat rule. You couldn't you couldn't go to the

470
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:35.639
Rose Bowl two years in a row
back to back. So when we won

471
00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:40.519
the championship, won the national championship
in nineteen sixty six, we couldn't play

472
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:44.719
in a bowl game because we had
been the previous year. So they sent

473
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:50.079
the second place team, which was
produced to the Rose Bowl, and so

474
00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:53.239
we were actually playing. When we
started the season, we knew we wasn't

475
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:57.039
going to be able to go to
the Rose Bowl, so we were we

476
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:00.199
were playing for the national championship.
And it came down to the final game

477
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:09.480
of the year, which now uh
has become probably demost talked about game in

478
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:14.400
a long time in history. It
was a ten ten tie against snow the

479
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.280
Dame. Yeah. So when you
when you guys had when you guys played

480
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:21.400
you know the Purdue, you know
you played you know that one black player.

481
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:23.480
Now did he come to you guys
like, hey, was that was

482
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:30.920
that that homeboy mentality? You know? No, no, he was the

483
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:36.800
enemy. We didn't get We didn't
he went on boy, no, homeboy,

484
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:45.599
homeboy working that day now because he
was after me. Uh yeah,

485
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:50.800
he was trying to end my day
early. But I was Fortunately I was

486
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:54.280
able to elude him. And it
was a great game. Uh it was.

487
00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.079
You know, if it hadn't ended
in a tie, it probably he

488
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:05.840
would would be forgotten if the team
had won. But the fact that there

489
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:09.440
was no the rules were different than
they are today. Uh, but there

490
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:15.440
was no overtime period and the game
ended and it was you was standing there.

491
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:20.400
It was kind of like, well, what let's play some more what

492
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:25.559
happened? But that's when Duffy made
the statement of ties like kissing your sister.

493
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:32.679
You talk a lot about like Duffy
and being an integral part of,

494
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:37.559
you know, the transition from a
lot of the players that came from the

495
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:42.559
South to Michigan State. You know, there was a piece with the NFL

496
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:47.639
that talked about Duffy, daughtery and
then his trust that he gained amongst the

497
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:54.239
coaches in the South. Yes,
Duffy when when Duffy and Bud Wilkinson back

498
00:43:54.280 --> 00:44:00.519
in the day were the two nationally
known coaching is in the in the country.

499
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:06.000
Highly respect the coaches in the country, and they had what they called

500
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:09.719
the Kodak Coach of the Year Clinic
that they put on all around the country

501
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:14.840
at the end of the football season. And he took the he took the

502
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:23.960
Kodak Coaching Clinic to Texas to Houston, and there were no black no black

503
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:29.360
coaches in it. Uh. The
black coaches wasn't allowed to come into the

504
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:36.159
clinic. And so Duffy did the
one clinic with the with the white coaches,

505
00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:39.320
and then he put the next week
he put on another clinic in Houston

506
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:45.159
for all of the black coaches.
UH so they could receive some instruction in

507
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:50.519
the clinic and the information that the
white coaches was receiving, and that that

508
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:57.960
started. That started the migration of
black players out of Texas and North and

509
00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:02.960
South Carolina. UH in Virginia.
That started that the coaches that were allowed

510
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:07.239
to come to the clinic and Duffy
welcomed them with open arms, and then

511
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:15.400
the top players that they had,
UH they were they were informing Michigan State

512
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:20.119
about them in Michigan State was able
to recruit the players based on their association,

513
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:22.639
their relationship with Duffy because of the
Kodak Coach of the Year clinic.

514
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:30.440
Man, I mean you could you
imagine, like, I mean one are

515
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:35.559
you talking about? Like even the
Coaches Association, Like technically AFCA black coaches

516
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:42.360
ain't allowed to go to the AFCA
conventions right like and one of our leaders,

517
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:46.440
our coaches, is not afraid to
go against the resistance and be the

518
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:51.960
well Duffie's background was. Duffy's background
was and such that he grew up in

519
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:57.400
Bonnsboro, Pennsylvania. His father worked
in the coal mine. Then he went

520
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:02.239
to Syracuse and he he was he
grew up around black kids. And he

521
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:08.239
went to college at Syracuse and they
had black players. So and he came

522
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:15.440
to Michigan State and Bigiemnt with Big
Eiemont and they before they became Michigan State,

523
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:21.199
they were first they was the Agriculture
College, but they started recruiting black

524
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:25.599
players to their and their quest to
become a member of the Big Ten.

525
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:36.199
So playing black players and being around
black players was wasn't wasn't that unique for

526
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.719
Michigan State. And they gained their
status into Big Ten because of the integrated

527
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:45.280
teams that they had in the national
championships they won in fifty four and fifty

528
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:52.039
five that included black players, and
some of the stars on the team were

529
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:59.920
black players. So it kind of
the difference with us during the sixty five

530
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:05.679
sixty six season wasn't so it wasn't
so much that we were fully integrated team

531
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:15.079
and it had cohesiveness and camaraderie and
played well together. But the outlier was

532
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:21.280
the fact that for the first time
it were led by a black quarterback and

533
00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:25.599
that position was off limits to blacks. I was the only I was the

534
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:31.440
only black quarterback in the country starting
at a Division I school in nineteen sixty

535
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:37.199
six. Wow, and the first
to win a national championship. Obviously,

536
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:43.800
Yeah, yeah, I mean,
I mean you talk about your your mark

537
00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:49.840
on the game itself into our culture
as African American men, ourselves. We

538
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:52.960
look at people talk a lot about
your influence over Tony Dungee, who ended

539
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:58.760
up hiring guys like Mike Tomlin in
the NFL level. Tony Dungee's a kid

540
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:01.760
from Jackson, Michigan, and watched
you when he was young. But I

541
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:07.719
also think about internal spartans like Charlie
Baggett that went to your high school and

542
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:12.960
guys like Tyrone Williamham who played on
that same team who went on to play

543
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:19.639
a coach A long time as black
African American coaches at the collegiate level in

544
00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:25.320
the NFL. Have you had time
to reflect now that you have ended your

545
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.280
career coaching after three four five decades
in the NFL A long time, A

546
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:35.199
long time in the NFL, and
look at the impact that you actually have

547
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:44.119
had on so many that came after
you. Well, I did reflect a

548
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:46.679
little bit when the NFL three sixty
came to do the piece on me,

549
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:52.760
and there were the fact that there
were two black quarterbacks starting in the Super

550
00:48:52.800 --> 00:49:00.920
Bowl, and I thought back to
the time when when I was drafted by

551
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.039
the Los Angeles Rams, and I
was told the very first day that they

552
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:09.039
called me that I was going to
be switched to defensive back, not allowed

553
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:16.639
to play quarterback. And then,
as I reflected on it, the University

554
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:23.320
of Alabama and all the SEC schools
of playing black quarterbacks. And when I

555
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:29.440
was growing up it was illegal to
give a black a scholarship. I think

556
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:35.599
Gerald Eviis was the first one that
broke that in the Southeastern Conference. I

557
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:43.880
think it was the Southwest Conference then. But I feel some sense of gratitude

558
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:52.239
and some sense of relief that blacks
it was. What it was was a

559
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:57.920
denial of opportunity to say that blacks
couldn't play the position because of the lack

560
00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:02.199
of intelligence and the lack of smart
And now it's unusual as I was the

561
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:08.400
only one playing. Now it's reversed, it's almost unusual. It's a CEO

562
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:13.760
team that doesn't have a black quarterback. I'm really pleased that we've come along

563
00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:17.719
ways in terms of black quarterbacks and
Doug Williams and the Super Bowl and all

564
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.800
of the guys that Michael Vicks and
Donovan McNabb and Randall Cunningham and all of

565
00:50:22.840 --> 00:50:29.360
the guys that were given opportunities to
play. Hopefully I had a little my

566
00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:34.599
playing that had a little bit of
impact on that. Yeah, so coach,

567
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:37.800
you gotta, you gotta, you
gotta say this because I heard,

568
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:40.960
you know, we're talking about your
coaching, and you know in that video

569
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:44.360
there, you know, it was
saying like you know, it's a shame,

570
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:46.199
and so you know, you never
got to you know, the opportunity

571
00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:51.400
for a head coach. But you
know, I don't know if I heard

572
00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:55.599
this somewhere, and can you can
confirm or you can deny this this story

573
00:50:55.639 --> 00:51:04.599
here I heard that at you were
slated to be the head coach at Michigan

574
00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:08.840
State, and everything was pretty much
wrapped up, and then last minute there

575
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:17.119
was a switcher root and then John
l was hired. Well, there there

576
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:22.199
is there is some truth to that
I was. I guess I was involved

577
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.679
in the in the head coaching search
at Michigan State on a couple of different

578
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:34.119
occasions. UH. In that particular
time, I was told that it was

579
00:51:34.519 --> 00:51:37.880
I was in the final three,
and so I was coaching in Kansas City

580
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:44.960
Chiefs when I went to do the
interview at Michigan State. We met in

581
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:51.320
the hotel in the Detroit Airport and
Clarence Underwood was on the panel UH of

582
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:58.880
the selection committee, and I I
was told at the end of the process

583
00:51:59.159 --> 00:52:06.039
is that they would get back to
me, and UH had affirmed that in

584
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:08.760
all likelihood I was going to be
the candidate. And then I was looking

585
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:15.400
at the bowl game on TV the
week before the week before they were supposed

586
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:22.679
to make the selection, and all
the Louisville players were on their cell phones

587
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:29.440
and uh they were calling and calling
each other or calling uh their their friends

588
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:34.880
or whatever. And it broke that, uh John L. Smith was who

589
00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:37.960
was the head coach at Louisville,
was going to be named the new head

590
00:52:37.960 --> 00:52:42.159
coach at Michigan State. And so
that's how I found out that I wasn't.

591
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:45.199
I wasn't the finalist. I wouldn't
wouldn't have got it was going to

592
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:51.519
get the job. Wow. I
mean, as far as we've come with

593
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.280
the quarterback position, you know,
think about that, we still have a

594
00:52:54.440 --> 00:53:00.440
long way to go in regards to
head coaching opportunities. That's what she's called.

595
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:04.559
And you said, the lack of
opportunity is what you reflect on for

596
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:09.719
players. Coach, What do you
think is going to take for more coaches

597
00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:14.679
to get the opportunity to be head
coaches, Black head coaches I'm talked about

598
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:21.280
to be able to get those jobs
the NFL and even college football. Well,

599
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:24.840
I've I've thought about it a lot, but I think it's going to

600
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:34.679
take some kind of catechismic explosion for
to happen or for that to take place.

601
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:38.719
I think until the owners and the
athletic directors and the college as the

602
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:51.719
college administrators understand that diversity is good
for business, and hiring black coaches is

603
00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:59.239
good for business, is a good
business deal right now. They the way

604
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:04.920
that the hiring people and the hiring
practices are, they don't feel any any

605
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:10.119
any consequences, any any any negative
consequences for their actions. And as long

606
00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:16.199
as they don't feel the negative consequences, and I'm talking basically in pro football

607
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:22.760
in their pocketbooks, uh, in
the seats in the stadium, I think

608
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.679
we'll we're going to struggle for a
while in terms of getting blacks named the

609
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:32.440
head coaching positions. When I was
coming along, uh and I was slated

610
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:37.760
supposedly to be the first black head
coach in the NFL prior to Art Shell.

611
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:45.519
The the denial of the opportunity was
because well, well he doesn't have

612
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:53.480
head coaching experience was used against me. And the other one was, well

613
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:58.519
they hadn't been a coordinator, so
you accomplished. If you had to go

614
00:54:58.599 --> 00:55:01.159
be a head coach, you had
to go back the college or and that

615
00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:07.239
wasn't there wasn't any opportunities there.
And then to become a coordinator. That

616
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:12.360
wasn't happening in the NFL, so
that was held against against all of us

617
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.920
that were in that era. And
but now there are no qualifications to be

618
00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:25.119
a head coach. You can be
on TV on ESPN and be named a

619
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:31.199
head coach the next week. And
the owner said that you don't need experience.

620
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:36.000
You don't need any experience to be
a head coach. So the goalpost

621
00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:42.119
keeps changing and the landscapes keeps moving. So now they just they just pick

622
00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:45.480
a guy that they said, Uh, some guys have been in the league

623
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:49.280
six or seven years and never been
a coordinator, never coached the position,

624
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:52.960
never taught a guy to put his
hand in the dirt, but he can

625
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.920
become a head coach. Uh,
there's a lot of nepotism going on,

626
00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:04.239
and until until there's some some consequences
for the actions that are taking place,

627
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:10.079
Uh, we're gonna we're gonna have
trouble continuing to feel the position of head

628
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:14.039
coach's position. And I think the
only way is going to happen is that

629
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:20.199
the players themselves, because of seventy
percent of black and minority in the NFL,

630
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:25.079
and to the players themselves take a
stand. I don't think anything will

631
00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:32.320
change MHM. Coach you mentioned,
uh, you know obviously the changing landscape

632
00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:37.679
of requirements to be a head coach. I guess you've worked for some head

633
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:42.159
coaches, but you know, I
mean you're successful coach and leading men and

634
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:45.400
training them to be great pros.
What what does it take to be a

635
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.360
great coach? I guess for you, I mean you personally, I feel

636
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:52.199
like one you're telling that story is
like, man, you could have been

637
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:55.760
our head coach, paying for you, Like you know, it would have

638
00:56:55.800 --> 00:57:05.000
It would have saved us those three
years of misery probably would have been We've

639
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:07.679
been well off and and and you
know, ten ten wins season in national

640
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:12.800
championships hopefully. But you know,
tell us what does it truly take to

641
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:17.719
be a successful head coach? You
know from your perspective, Well, first

642
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:24.480
of all, you know, uh
now knowledge knowledge of the game. Uh.

643
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:30.719
There are two different, two different
dynamics in college and pro football,

644
00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:37.719
but both of them still require a
knowledge of the game of football, and

645
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:43.039
and the leadership ability and the leaders
and the ability to lead men. Uh.

646
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:52.480
And without those two things, uh, basically you see what is happening

647
00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:57.440
now in the NFL. There's ten
coaching jobs every year because at the year

648
00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:01.159
and a half for two years sometimes
let's in the year they make they're making

649
00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:08.679
changes in the head coach. But
the ability to communicate, to teach and

650
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:14.360
to show a guy that you can
improve him and make him better. Every

651
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:19.719
guy in pro football or in college
wants to be be coached to either get

652
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:23.639
to the next level or in college
get to the NFL or in pro football

653
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:28.920
to get to the next big kind
of max contract. So once you can,

654
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:32.840
once you are in the position of
coaching a young man and you can

655
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:37.360
improve his ability, his skills,
and he has trust in you, and

656
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:43.599
he buys into what you're teaching,
and you're leading him in the property direction,

657
00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:50.760
and you you also have an investment
in him in his personal life,

658
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.519
not just as a football player.
I think all of those things are components

659
00:58:54.239 --> 00:59:00.000
of making of a good head coach
and they all come back down to leadership

660
00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:07.280
hip and mentorship, uh in the
process. Yeah, So you know to

661
00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:10.400
that point there about you know that
advice there and you know we got at

662
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:15.599
Michigan State. We have an African
American head coach, the highest paid you

663
00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:20.960
know, African American head coach in
college football, Coach Tucker he came off

664
00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:24.400
he first, he had a great
season. Last year a disappointing season.

665
00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:31.960
So what advice would you give to
coach Tucker going into this year? Well,

666
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:38.639
I think I think Coach Tucker is
is is headed in the right direction.

667
00:59:39.440 --> 00:59:45.360
Uh. He understands the dynamics of
what it takes to be successful as

668
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:50.360
a as a as a head coach. Uh. He's a great leader and

669
00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:57.239
communicator. Uh, he's invested in
the players. I would I would tell

670
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:01.199
him to just stick to his training
u uh, don't waiver. Uh.

671
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:07.000
He knows what he's trying to accomplish
and how in the road that he has

672
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:13.519
to travel to get there, because
he's been in successful programs at LSU and

673
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:20.559
Alabama and Georgia University of Georgia teams
that are perennially up there, and he

674
01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:24.960
knows how to build that culture.
And as long as his culture sustains itself

675
01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:30.840
and he and he he gets the
Jimmy and the Joees to go with the

676
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.000
Exes and the O's, I think
he's gonna I think he'll do fine.

677
01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:40.239
Perfect Jimmy and Jimmy's and the Jones
matters. Coach, I'm gonna ask you

678
01:00:40.280 --> 01:00:45.000
before we let you go man,
like you know, in today's college football

679
01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:50.400
with the transfer portal and name image, likeness, players getting paid. Like,

680
01:00:51.079 --> 01:00:53.800
what advice can you give guys nowadays
that you didn't have to deal with

681
01:00:53.840 --> 01:00:59.679
when you were in your career,
but seeing it from your perspective with your

682
01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:05.440
wiz them, how would you handle
today's athlete? Well, that that one

683
01:01:05.559 --> 01:01:09.079
is that one is difficult. Uh, the name image and likeness and the

684
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:15.119
transfer potal. Uh. You have
to continue recruiting the guys every day,

685
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.360
UH, and your staff has to
be on top of them every day.

686
01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:23.079
And then you have to be vigilant
about watching what is in the in the

687
01:01:23.119 --> 01:01:29.559
transfer potal and if they fit your
criteria in your environment that you're trying to

688
01:01:29.599 --> 01:01:36.199
create to bring them into your program. Mostly, I think I think I

689
01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:40.960
think it goes back to education and
if you and kids that the young men

690
01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:47.199
that they can't lose sight of the
fact that they initially signed to go to

691
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:52.800
college to play football, but they
signed on to get an education and give

692
01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:55.639
them a chance of a better life. And so many kids are jumping in

693
01:01:55.719 --> 01:02:02.000
the transfer pot that get lost,
that don't end up uh getting a degree,

694
01:02:02.679 --> 01:02:07.039
end up after their time as eligibility
is up. They don't. They

695
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:09.360
don't get to the next level that
they thought they were gonna get to.

696
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:15.480
I would I would maintain I would
take the academic aspect of it, UH

697
01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:20.679
and and what is available to the
players at the end at the Michigan State

698
01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:27.000
University, the facilities, the academic
counseling, UH, all of the achievements

699
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.280
that the prep that the prior players
have had. I would lean heavily on

700
01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:35.320
the education aspect of it, and
hopefully that would deter some of the kids

701
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.320
from jumping in the portal and jumping
UH to other schools thinking that they're going

702
01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:45.119
to be a starter and not looking
at the academic side of it. That's

703
01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:50.760
right, tough landscape to deal with
nowadays. For sure, it is for

704
01:02:50.840 --> 01:02:55.440
sure because I think UH we had
to scrape from if we got five dollars

705
01:02:55.480 --> 01:03:00.679
a week. We had to we
had to figure out how we were we

706
01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:07.119
were gonna get toothpaste and some smell
good uh for the weekend. And I

707
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:09.719
also neve enough to have be able
to eat on Sunday when the dining hall

708
01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:15.719
closes at two o'clock. It's a
lot, it's a lot different. It's

709
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:22.039
a lot different now most every kid
gets about nine hundred and fifty dollars guaranteed

710
01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:27.360
each month. Uh, it's a
it's a little bit different than I don't

711
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:30.840
envy coach Tucker or any of the
any of the college football coaches that are

712
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:36.960
dealing with it. But I think, uh, I think Tucker is is

713
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:40.760
in tune with it, the environment
that he's creating. Uh. I think

714
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:46.599
Will uh be steadfast in Michigan State. Will Will get to where he wants

715
01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:52.519
to get. He wants to play
for the national championship. Absolutely, he

716
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:57.000
sure does. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I appreciate you, uh,

717
01:03:57.039 --> 01:04:00.440
you know, joining us. And
I got to say, you know,

718
01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:03.719
I had the pleasure of being coached
by you at the Jets. When

719
01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:11.360
you went to San Francisco, you
brought me along there with you. I

720
01:04:11.400 --> 01:04:14.880
remember this, you know, when
you were let go from San Francisco,

721
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:18.920
we had a conversation and the last
thing you said, be careful, I'm

722
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:24.159
not there to protect you. I
was back of my pigs and going to

723
01:04:24.199 --> 01:04:30.880
Buffalo. I really appreciate all that
you know, all the knowledge and everything

724
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:32.440
that you instilled upon me, you
know, as a player, taught me

725
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.519
how to be a professional, taught
me how to you know, take care

726
01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:40.159
of myself at that next level.
And I remember one thing that you said.

727
01:04:40.239 --> 01:04:44.800
You know, you said, this
is the easiest money and the fastest

728
01:04:45.039 --> 01:04:49.480
money that a black, a black
kid can make legally in America playing the

729
01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:53.760
game of football, playing sports overall. And you know, those are some

730
01:04:53.800 --> 01:04:57.400
of the knowledge that you instilled upon
me at that time. It may not

731
01:04:57.440 --> 01:05:00.559
have looked like I was listening,
but I was listening. Well, yeah,

732
01:05:00.679 --> 01:05:04.599
well you had a great you had
a great journey, and uh,

733
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:10.360
I appreciate being on the show as
all, got a great podcast going.

734
01:05:10.440 --> 01:05:15.599
And uh i'd like to uh say
thank you and say hello to all the

735
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:21.480
Spartan fans of Sparkan Nation out there
and go green, go a little,

736
01:05:21.519 --> 01:05:26.199
go white, Coach, I appreciate
it. Get back to the golf course.

737
01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:30.599
Thank you, get him straight,
Thank you, bro, allright,

738
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:34.480
appreciated. Coach. Let me hold
something. Then you got that teller bomb

739
01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:42.440
man? Let me yeah, I
know he got it. I know he

740
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:45.599
got it. An interview man,
I mean just a wealth of knowledge,

741
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:49.840
man, Jimmy Ray, I ain't
you know every time when I talk to

742
01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:54.280
George George Blahave, you know,
broadcast partner, I mean he talks in

743
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:58.360
depth. I mean he talks about
Jimmy Ray like he can see him when

744
01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:00.800
he talks about me. I can
see the guy on the field through his

745
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:03.679
eyes and his energy when he talks
about him. Here's some clips from him

746
01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:08.599
right here. Man, you're talking
about little bootleg. Actually that's what you

747
01:06:08.679 --> 01:06:12.360
do on the goal line. You
know you still can't stop that on the

748
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:16.280
goal line, I'm telling you.
But the look, that's what happens when

749
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:20.440
you have a run game and you're
running the eye was it was not the

750
01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:34.480
I formation. Look at him?
Look at him? Oh yeah, smooth

751
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:42.719
man. I clicked his ankles.
You know, it's crazy, like I

752
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:45.920
I'm trying to think. I think
it was Tom who was on that NFL

753
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:50.559
special. Someone gave me the USB
drive of the ten ten tipe, the

754
01:06:50.559 --> 01:06:55.840
film like the footage, like the
entire game, and when I left the

755
01:06:55.880 --> 01:07:01.079
Spartan fun, I have misplaced the
USB like drive where I'm like that was

756
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:08.519
like that was goal like and I
so go when then we have these conversations.

757
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:11.639
Now it's weird when we talk about
the Shrian East East versus West strin

758
01:07:11.719 --> 01:07:15.920
game, where initially this thing was
segregated and then now you see like one

759
01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:20.880
of our very own Ben Van and
played in that game, right, so

760
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:25.880
that was a different game. That
was that was actually a high school game

761
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.000
he played. That's what I'm saying. This was the high school. But

762
01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:31.559
like, no, it's still the
college college. But like you think about

763
01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:35.039
it, where now it's it's it
is, uh, it's now you play

764
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:40.159
ever play you see playing that in
that game. But man, that was

765
01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:44.239
that gave me so much, not
say validation, but it was giving me

766
01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:49.480
more dignity and being proud to be
on the love a black alone of Michigan

767
01:07:49.519 --> 01:07:55.199
State University because just the history,
man, like the rich history of you

768
01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:59.639
don't know behind that, that struggle
in that journey, but that that that's

769
01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:03.840
a good picture right there too.
Man, where thankfully for Biggie Duffy of

770
01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:10.119
just allowing this platform for us to
truly go through it. And it's almost

771
01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:13.960
like Jimmy knew that he didn't know. He didn't claim to know, but

772
01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:17.319
he knew what he was doing but
didn't know. But opening the doors for

773
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:21.640
other black boys watching him coming up. Man, it's crazy. How about

774
01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:25.399
how about the fact he could have
been the head coach at Michigan State.

775
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:30.159
You saw that's huge. That's breaking
news right there. Oh man, I

776
01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:38.439
just like Man, I probably would
have been I would have had a better

777
01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:45.000
probably pro career, man because he
would have followed Bobby Williams. He would

778
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:48.439
have followed Bobby Williams. Yep,
oh wow, it would have been we

779
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:54.119
would have had that experience. We
would have had the NFL experience. That

780
01:08:54.159 --> 01:08:58.560
would have gave us truly vital pieces
to get us ready for that next level.

781
01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:10.039
Oh Jesus. But instead we had
chick You guys, you know straight.

782
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:14.319
I can't look. I know,
Bash bashed that regime, but because

783
01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:16.680
clearly they gave me a scholarship,
gave me opportunity, I can't fault that.

784
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:20.800
But it could have been probably a
different trajectory if you had our boy,

785
01:09:20.880 --> 01:09:25.439
Jimmy Ray. We said, homeboy
would have had our backs. Yeah,

786
01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:30.359
home boys. I like that.
Yeah, we found out where the

787
01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:32.520
origin of the word comes from.
Man. That that was. That was

788
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:39.159
a great interview, guys. Uh
ju any final thoughts, No, Man,

789
01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:42.680
how can you follow that up?
You can't, You really can't to

790
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:45.960
be on there. Yeah, just
thankful that we had a chance to get

791
01:09:45.960 --> 01:09:51.880
an interview with the great indeligible that
what was the name, indelible, indelible,

792
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:57.239
indelible, Jimmy, I love it. I love it man. That

793
01:09:57.359 --> 01:10:00.520
was awesome. Guys. You know
so that'll be a a boat on this

794
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:04.720
show. So for Jay you Culchre, Otis Wiley, I'm Jason Straehorn.

795
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:20.239
This is Sparta. Have a good
night, God bless go greet while this

796
01:10:20.319 --> 01:10:25.960
is Sparta MSU as a combine presentation
of Playfly Sports properties in Michigan State Sports

797
01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:30.920
Properties. The show is produced by
Pete Manez with additional support from Tony Costella

798
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:36.279
Operations and Social media support is provided
by Alicia Strayhorn with support from Cecily Max

799
01:10:36.319 --> 01:10:43.199
Brown on location. Technical support is
provided by Good Fruit Video. Be sure

800
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:47.239
to follow our hosts Jason Straehorn,
Jayu Culchric and Otis Wiley on social media

801
01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:51.720
to stay up to date with all
the latest This is Smarta news. Please

802
01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:56.640
like a subscribe by visiting our link
tree and tell a friend to do the

803
01:10:56.680 --> 01:11:00.439
same. Thank you for your support
and as always, Gogri