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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and
violence, and is not intended for all

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audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
What do you remember it was? Man?

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It was just it was all It
was bad blood. You know what

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I'm saying. Stuff was coming out
of her mouth. Did you think that

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she was dying? I didn't think
that she was gonna die. Hello and

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welcome the season eleven, episode two
hundred and sixty four of Sword and Scale,

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a show that reveals that the worst
monsters are real. Speaking of real,

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boy, nothing makes a really horrific
true crime story real for you as

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much as standing in front of the
building where a young woman was tortured to

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death by people who she thought were
her friends, and it all comes to

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you all, well, it's like, oh, this really really happened.

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You know, Otherwise you're just sitting
in a dark room talking in a microphone.

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But producing Sword and Scale television has
really solidified in my mind just how

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awful people can be. I hope
you get a chance to see it,

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because I think we're doing something incredible. I think we're elevating the true crime

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platform to a new place. The
stories we're telling, the way we're telling

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them. This has never been done
before, so I really do hope that

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you do get a chance to see
it. I know it's expensive, but

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we do have plans to add additional
offerings to the video tier. You know,

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eventually we have to start somewhere,
and I think we started at the

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very top, at the very pinnacle
of true crime, which is Sword and

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Scale Television. I think you're gonna
love it. If you're interested in checking

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it out and also supporting independent media, head on over to Sword and Scale

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dot com or download the Sword and
Scale app on your iOS or Android phone.

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During the course of a murderer investigation, and especially if a particular murder

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is ultimately solved, there is a
word that gets thrown around a lot.

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That word is closure. Oftentimes,
family members of a murder victim seek answers

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in an effort to obtain that ever
elusive closure. Aside from wanting to know

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who is responsible for their loved one's
death, they also want to know why

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that person committed the murder in the
first place. Then they usually want to

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see that person punished. Many families
wait years to get all of these things

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if they're lucky enough to get them
all, but after they get them does

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closure actually ever truly come in a
murder case? Is closure really even possible?

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Just over twenty years ago, in
mid August of two thousand and two,

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a middle aged mom in Fort Wayne, Indiana, received a voicemail from

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her only daughter's ex boyfriend. It
was the kind of voicemail that no mother

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wants to hear. She was told
that her daughter had been badly injured and

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was being rushed to the hospital.
D write in love, I'm over here

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at Gumfria Thompson, thank you over
here, she had heard she heard the

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name of her here. I don't
know away, We'll get a whole call.

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I mean, that's the only thing
I sing. Earlier that night,

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Fort Wayne police were called to a
fairly chaotic scene and a residence where a

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small house party had been taking place. The attendees were mostly young adults in

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their late teens and early twenties.
The lead investigator that was eventually assigned to

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this case was Fort Wayne homicide Detective
Brian Martin. Fort Wayne police officers arrived

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to what was put out as a
party. When they arrived, they discovered

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a female who was suffering from some
type of cut or stabloun to the chest

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and abdomen area. They observed that
there were approximately eight to ten individuals standing

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around, with one or two of
the individuals providing aid to the victim.

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The young female victim was rushed to
a hospital as the responding officers turned the

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house party into a crime scene and
began questioning the witnesses. The police learned

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that shortly after the victim arrived at
the house party, a physical and fairly

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brutal fight broke out in the backyard
between her and another teenager. She pulled

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up. Everybody was outside in the
back and that's that's when all hell broke

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loose came Where were you at here? And all this? She I was

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upstairs in the bedroom with a bunch
of people smoking weed. So you're upstairs

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smoking weed? What do you remember
she got into an altercation with another female

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when it comes to the fight.
Do you remember the fight? I don't

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know, man, They were just
scuffling around and all they were on the

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ground when you left. Did you
know that? Did somebody say the cops

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were coming right? Did you?
Oh? We heard them? Oh you

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could hear them. We heard them. The police also learned that the victim

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in this case was soon to be
High school senior. Stacy the Grand Champ.

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So Stacy the Grand Champ was a
very popular young lady, approximately sixteen

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seventeen years old. Everybody that we
spoke to about Stacey described her as a

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popular, young, energetic young lady
who had goals of going to college and

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they were very, very excited about
where life was going to take Stacy.

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Her personality was that energetic, charismatic
and everybody, including Stacy herself, had

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high hopes and big plans for life. Stacy was an only child, but

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she found sisterhood and her cousin,
Jamie McMillan, who lived only a few

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houses away from Stacy. I am
Jamie McMillan and I am the cousin of

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St. C. Deering Champ.
Our moms are twins and we definitely grew

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up extremely close. It was only
two years difference between the two of us.

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Stacy was an extremely fun person to
be around. She was always full

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of energy. She enjoyed playing volleyball. She loved her family very much.

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She was the oldest of all the
girls, and there's about twenty eight cousins

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between all of us. Stacy was
getting ready to start her senior year at

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Wayne High School, which back in
two thousand and two was pretty standard public

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high school. Among the halls in
the class aassrooms were the typical cliques of

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jocks, stoner's band, geeks,
and the like. In the social hierarchy,

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Stacy was undeniably at the top.
With her blonde hair, bright eyes,

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and prowess and volleyball. She was
one of the most popular students at

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Wayne High if not the most popular. I feel like a lot of people

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were jealous of Stacy just based off
how beautiful she was and her outgoing personality.

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I think a lot of people envied
her. The police also learned that

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the teenager who had gotten into a
fight with Stacy was Holly Boisvert, another

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student at Wayne High. So Holly
boys as a young lady. She also

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attended Wayne High School. Sixteen seventeen
year old girl. She kind of kepture

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herself, maybe ran with a little
bit tougher crowd. She could be standoffish

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at times. Holly, I don't
believe initially was the kind of girl that

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you would think of as a trouble
maker, but she definitely had a little

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bit of a rough side to her. In many ways, Stacy and Holly

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were very opposite people. They were
both attractive teenage girls, but Stacy was

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known to be bright, bubbly,
and outgoing, while Holly was pretty introverted

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and carried herself with an edge just
because of I remember her as a teenager

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through my group of friends, she
was the tough one, you know,

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she was the I'll beat anybody up
or you know, like out of our

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group of friends, she was a
little rough, roun edge. Okay.

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Needless to say, Stacey and Holly
weren't close, but they did know each

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other through mutual friends. Several months
before the two girls had their fight at

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a house party, Stacy began dating
a young man named Brandon Muff. To

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know Stacy and Brandon was to also
know that they really didn't make much sense

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together. Stacy was a preppy teenager
who always did her school work, and

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twenty year old Brandon had a reputation
for being a local bad boy. Actually,

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come to think of it, most
high schools have this sort of arrangement.

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Pretty popular girl dating the older bad
dude with a leather jacket used to

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be a popular trope. Stacy started
dating Brandon Muff back when she was about

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sixteen years old. The relationship didn't
seem to last very long. We automatically

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knew that that was not a good
fit for her. That was terrible decision,

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and we were pretty voiicitous about that
as her family. So Brandon Muff

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is a gentleman who was a little
bit older, early twenties, ran with

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a little bit rougher crowd. Well, Brandon was the kind of guy that

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you liked the attention, You liked
dating these younger ladies a little bit,

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and liked to party and have fun. Stacy dated Brandon for a few months

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and it just so happened that Brandon
was Holly's ex boyfriend. Though the term

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ex boyfriend should be used loosely here
because Brandon was playing both girls. So

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Holly dated Brandon and I'm not quite
certain on how long the relationship lasted,

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but ultimately Brandon broke up with Holly, and then later on Stacy started dating

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Brandon. It appeared Brandon was kind
of playing both sides of the field,

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if you will, or dating both
girls at the same time, or there

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may have been some overlap or some
bad communication as to what his intentions were

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with the young ladies. After Stacy
began dating Brandon, Holly went out of

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her way to make life hard for
Stacy. In an attempt to drive a

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wedge between Stacy and their group of
friends, Holly began spreading rumors about Stacy.

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Holly was extremely upset once she found
out that Brandon and Stacy started dating.

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She went around spreading different rumors and
just bad through Stacy's name completely under

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the bus where friends that were mutual
friends decided that they either couldn't retain their

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friendship with her or that they kind
of sided with Holly based off of the

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rumors that Holly was spreading. By
mid August of two thousand and two,

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Stacy had broken off things with Brandon
and was preparing to start her senior year

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at Wayne High. But about a
week before school was scheduled to start,

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Stacy was invited to a house party
where Brandon lived. Stacy was reluctant about

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going, but was ultimately convinced to
attend by her friend Abby. Stacey ended

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up going to the Guthrie home that
night. She was there with a mutual

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friend of Brandon's named Abby, and
Abby ended up taking Stacy there that night.

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Stacy was reluctant, she didn't really
want to go but for whatever reason,

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Abby head her talked into let's go
to this party, and so Abby

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drove her there that night. Naturally, after Stacy was rushed to the hospital,

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Abby was one of the first people
that the police questioned. According to

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Abby, as well as many other
witnesses, the fight between Stacy and Holly

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broke out pretty much as soon as
Stacy arrived at the party. So we

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end up going and I park in
the driveway when the girl comes out and

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they get in this altercation. Both
Holly and Stacy had a verbal exchange verbal

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argument. They got pretty heated by
the back door of the residence. The

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girls had this rather firing exchange and
then it led to physical push and shoving,

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which led to kicking and hitting and
the girls being on the ground fighting,

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wrestling, kicking one another. Eventually, the fight between Stacy and Holly

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was broken up and Abby suggested to
Stacy that they should just leave. When

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she stood up and I was talking
to her, there was no blood.

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And then she went around the side
of my car. And then I look

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back and she wasn't standing there,
and you were next to the car with

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her. Yeah, I was by
the driver's side. She went over to

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the passenger side. According to Abby, she and Stacy walked towards Abby's car,

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and for a brief moment, Abby
looked away from Stacy, but when

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she looked back, Stacy was no
longer standing. She was suddenly lying in

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the driveway and clutching her chest.
Shortly after, many of the other partygoers

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began to gather around Stacy. What
what do you remember about Stacy laying there?

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It was, man, it was
just it was it was bad.

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You know what I'm saying. Blood, you know what I'm saying. Stuff

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was coming out of her mouth.
You know, I didn't know. It

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scared the fuck out of me.
You know what I'm saying. I ain't

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never seen anything like it. Did
you think that she was dying? I

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didn't think that she was gonna die? Right. Eventually nine one one was

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called, an ambulance showed up,
and Stacy was rushed to a hospital.

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Tragically, the cops had some very
bad news for Abby. And at this

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point in my call nine one one, call nine one one, and then

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everything went so freaking fast. At
that point, the paramedics came, the

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police got there, and I was
like, she okay, is she okay?

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I'm going to freak it out and
he's the police officer looked at me

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down in the face that she's not
gonna make it, and right then it

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was complete devastation. Abby held on
to hope that Stacy was going to survive,

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but ultimately her hope was in vain. Just a few hours after she

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arrived at the hospital, seventeen year
old Stacy de Grand Champ was dead.

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Following her death, Fort Wayne homicide
detectives went to work trying to figure out

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exactly how this happened and who was
responsible, but the case turned out to

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be much more complicated than they anticipated. In fact, this case remained unsolved

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for quite a while, and nobody
would get any real answers about Stacy's death

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for nearly twenty years. On the
night of August fifteenth, two thousand and

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two, two high school students in
Fort Wayne, Indiana, Stacy to Grand

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Champion Holly Boisburt, began fighting each
other at a small house party. The

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fight started as a shouting match,
but quickly escalated to shoving, hair pulling,

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punching, kicking, and rolling around
on the ground typical girl fight.

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After the fight ended, Stacy collapsed
in the driveway as she was attempting to

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leave when an ambulance and police arrived. It became a parent that Stacy had

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life threatening injuries, and she was
rushed to a nearby hospital. A few

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hours later, Stacy died, and
the following morning, her cousin Jamie was

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made aware of Stacy's passing. I
learned from my mom waking me up with

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my aunt in our family room,
very sobbing, crying, and I just

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said, Mom, what is it, well, what's wrong? What's wrong?

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And she said, Stacy died,
She's gone. I just remember feeling

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this numb feeling just over my entire
body and just feeling extremely weak, the

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shock feeling. There wasn't so much
emotion right away. It was the shock

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feeling. And all I could say
was, no, this isn't this isn't

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happening now, It's not true.
And then I proceeded to go into the

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living room where seen Rita, her
mom. I felt the way that she

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looked, that'd be how I looked
at that point in time. Just a

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feeling of loss. You couldn't even
speak. All you could do was stop

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crying together as a family and ask
yourself, you know. Then the million

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and one questions as to why.
When Jamie and the rest of Stacy's family

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learned that Stacy had died, they
weren't given much information about how or why

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this all happened. Again, at
this point in time, we still had

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no idea really what had happened.
We met with the detectives told us a

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little bit about what had happened.
They didn't have any idea who did it.

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They did not have a murder weapon. They just had stated that that

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Holly and Stacy were in an altercation
in the backyard and that they're going to

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00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,839
get who who did this? And
you know, of course our fingers immediately

207
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,119
said Holly did it. She had
the altercation, But at that point in

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00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,839
time, we still weren't certain on
what involvement Bringdan had. Twenty year old

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00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,079
Brandon Muff dated both Holly and Stacy, and he was the host of the

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00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:14,319
house party where Stacy was injured.
Naturally, the police interviewed Brandon, and

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00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,920
during that interview, Brandon freely admitted
that he had invited both girls to his

212
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:22,319
party while being well aware of the
fact that they didn't like each other.

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00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:29,279
Stacy and Abby came over and they
told me that they would be coming over

214
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,400
later because I told him they we're
going to have a couple of people over.

215
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,359
Wasn't a party or anything like that. So later in the day,

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about I say about three or four, I talked to Holly. She said

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that she was going to come over. Brandon explained that when Holly arrived at

218
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his house, she had been dropped
off by a few friends. A short

219
00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:53,759
while later, Stacy's friend Abby pulled
into the driveway with Stacy sitting in the

220
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:57,680
car's passenger seat. She got there, it was just getting dark. She

221
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got dropped off by a whitney and
some friends went inside. Justin told me

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00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:08,279
that Stacy and Abby were there,
so I went outside to meet him.

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00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:14,279
Abby told police that almost immediately after
she and Stacy showed up to the party,

224
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Holly and Stacy got into an argument, with each girl shouting at the

225
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other. Then the physical fighting began, and Stacey had You know, she

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00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,240
could be a little hot head sometimes, and you know, if somebody had

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00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:32,160
problems with her, she wasn't scared
to confront it, and I think she

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00:20:32,279 --> 00:20:36,119
wanted just to have a conversation and
maybe it would have gotten heated. You

229
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,400
know, I believe that the conversation
would have gotten heated. But then it

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00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,799
just and this was a matter of
a few minutes. This all happened.

231
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:47,599
It was just insane, and I'm
like, Brandon, help me stop this.

232
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,440
Help me. After the two girls
started hitting each other, Abby called

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00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:56,599
upon Brandon to break it up,
but Brandon wasn't too keen on stopping two

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00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:03,559
attractive young girls from fighting in large
part about him. And I stepped in

235
00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:04,400
and I said, well, if
they're gonna fight, lit the fight.

236
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:10,640
So they started fighting. It ended
up both of them on the ground,

237
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,400
and Stacy was kicking Holly in the
face. So I decided that it was

238
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,960
time to break up the fight.
So I grabbed Stacy's ankle and I yanked

239
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:25,240
her away from Holly or she fell
into some recycling bins, and she stood

240
00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:32,079
up like everything was fine when you
or Stacy from Holly. Why did you

241
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,240
do that? Because Stacy was she
was getting the best of follow she was

242
00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:41,240
kicking Holly in By all accounts,
Stacy won the fight, and after it

243
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,720
ended, she seemed fine. Brandon
pulled her away from Holly and Stacy stumbled

244
00:21:45,759 --> 00:21:52,200
into some recycling bins. Then Abby
suggested that they leave the party, and

245
00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:55,359
they stand up Stacey's standing there,
and I was like, let's just fucking

246
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,720
go. So she walks around the
side of my car. I look the

247
00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:02,079
other way. I look back on
the ground. When I go over there,

248
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:03,920
I see blood and start coming through
her shirt. But after I saw

249
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,559
what was going on, I screamed
for Brandon, and then I went over

250
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:11,559
there and got on the ground and
I noticed that, you know, she

251
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:15,160
she was had blood on her shirt
and she was bleeding. So I lifted

252
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,319
up her sherr hatway and there was
a hole in her stomach. Stacey was

253
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,720
choking, and she had started choking
at that point, and I turned her

254
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:26,160
on her side because I thought,
maybe, you know, she was an

255
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,720
Obama or something, and she did
and I asked her what. I asked

256
00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:34,920
her what happened, and she told
me the pain started when I broke up

257
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,839
the fight. Brandon's account of what
happened was consistent with the statements that all

258
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,079
of the witnesses at the party had
given to police, so Brandon probably wasn't

259
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:51,279
lying, but none of his versions
of events explained how Stacy got injured or

260
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:56,000
how this fight led to her death. When Stacy was taken to the hospital,

261
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,160
they knew right away that she had
a cut to her middle of her

262
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,039
chest, just under her breast,
as well as her abdomen, and by

263
00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:07,960
the time that she had gotten picked
up by the ambulance and transported a very

264
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,519
short distance to a trauma center,
there was nothing that could be done to

265
00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:17,279
save her life. After Stacy died
in the hospital, her family was put

266
00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:22,839
into a truly awful position. Stacy
was a vibrant seventeen year old girl with

267
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,599
a bright future ahead of her,
and her family had to bury her without

268
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:33,559
any answers as to how this happened
or who was responsible. DC went out

269
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:38,559
shopping for her senior year outfit the
day that she died, and those were

270
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:41,640
supposed to be for her senior pictures
that she was going to be taking that

271
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:47,519
following week as she entered into her
senior year, and instead of being able

272
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:51,759
to wear those for her senior pictures, she was wearing those in that outfit

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00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:56,279
in her casket in very poor taste, and to the shock of Stacy's family,

274
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:03,400
Brandon Muff made an appearance at the
viewing for Stacy. Brandon showed up

275
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,240
and my one aunt said, Brandon, you look at her, and you

276
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,960
look what you did to her.
You did this, you put her there,

277
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,079
And he turned around and yelled back
and said, I love that girl.

278
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:21,480
I would never do anything to hurt
her, and continued to yell profanity

279
00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:26,079
as he exited out of the funeral
home. During the police investigation, detectives

280
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:30,240
were hoping that they could find a
murder weapon, if there even was one.

281
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:36,519
Stacy's injuries suggested that she could have
been stabbed, so a search effort

282
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:40,640
was made to find the knife.
Law enforcement during the search of the residents

283
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,079
as a crime scene, went through
the entire house. They went through the

284
00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:48,079
exterior of the home. They documented
the area around the home. Knives from

285
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,720
the kitchen and from the kitchen sink
were removed from the residence and tested.

286
00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:57,759
At this time and shortly thereafter,
it was learned that none of the knives

287
00:24:57,759 --> 00:25:03,319
that were taken from the resident or
in fact a weapon used to kill Stacy.

288
00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:07,359
When Brandon was questioned, he told
police that during the fight he never

289
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,759
saw Holly or anyone with a knife
or any kind of weapon at all.

290
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:18,119
And during the time that Stacey and
Holly was fighting, was there anyone else

291
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,759
around or involved in the fight?
Yep, and you were the only person

292
00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:26,839
that it kind of got involved in
the fight when you called Stacy right right?

293
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:33,319
Did you stab Stacey did? To
my understanding, and from what I

294
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,519
saw that, I never really saw
anybody sab anybody and you and I waited

295
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:40,200
a couple of days to see,
if you know, if they would find

296
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,599
a weapon at the same but they
never found a weapon. As for everyone

297
00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:47,920
else who witnessed the fight, they
told police the very same thing. Nobody

298
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,559
saw a knife. Nobody saw a
weapon the day the fight happened. Did

299
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:55,240
you see or talk to Holly at
all? Do you recall, yes,

300
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,920
I dropped her off to the location. When you dropped her off, do

301
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,759
you know if she hadn't she'd been
carrying a knife with her, right,

302
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:04,119
I don't remember seeing a knife.
I'm not going to say she didn't have

303
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,279
a knife, though, you don't
remember seeing seeing a weapon? No,

304
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,720
I don't know anybody. I haven't
seen no weapons. I has seen this.

305
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,119
Two girls getting into a fight.
Did you see the other girl's hands,

306
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:19,559
I mean I've seen him. It
looked like she didn't have anything in

307
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:23,440
her hands. You know what I'm
saying. Yeah, it was just looked

308
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,759
like a fight, you know what
I'm saying. Yeah, Let me ask

309
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:32,960
you this, anytime did you see
Hollywood a knife? Though, anytime after

310
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:37,359
the fight or even since she passed, did you ever hear that she had

311
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,240
a knife. I never heard anything
about a weapon. I never saw a

312
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:44,000
weapon. And that's why this is
so hard, given that no weapon was

313
00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:48,519
found in that nobody ever saw one. The detectives began to wonder if Stacy

314
00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:55,039
had been cut or stabbed in some
way. Brandon and other witnesses told police

315
00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:00,839
that the fight ended when Brandon dragged
Stacy away from Holly. Stacy then stood

316
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:07,720
up and stumbled or fell into a
nearby collection of recycling bins. Maybe Stacey

317
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:15,000
was somehow and unknowingly injured. Then
these puncture wounds are these stab wounds initially

318
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,480
were described as possibly being some kind
of cup from glass or metal, And

319
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:25,720
it was described by people at the
scene that during the altercation between Holly and

320
00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:32,519
Stacy that a recycle bin with glass
and bottles was knocked over, and I

321
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:37,000
believe everybody initially thought that possibly Stacy
was cut by glass. There was,

322
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:42,079
of course, one other very important
person that the police talked to, and

323
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:48,519
that was the girl who fought with
Stacy, Holly Boisbird Unfortunately, for the

324
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,279
sake of this episode, the cops
decided to record the audio of this interview

325
00:27:53,880 --> 00:28:02,599
with a potato And then and she
got on hair and pulled me across the

326
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,799
arm and tied me in my face, and I put my army on the

327
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:12,319
way from both arms, and she
just started hitting me in my head the

328
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:19,279
arms, and then Brandon pulled her, letting dragged off the ar my angles

329
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,680
and then she let and so that
was like, let's go one her glee

330
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:26,880
and she walked over to the car. When Holly gave her statement to police,

331
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:33,119
she claimed that she had no idea
how Stacy got stabbed. She admitted

332
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,480
that she had gotten into a fight
with Stacy and that Stacy won the fight,

333
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,039
then Brandon broke it up and a
few moments later Stacy collapsed in the

334
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:48,759
driveway. It was the same story
that everyone else had told police. Holly

335
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:56,000
did give the information about a recycle
bend the head glass and bottles in it

336
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,480
being knocked over, and that she
initially thought that possibly that was how Stacy

337
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:06,319
had received her injuries. Holly further
indicated that she was kind of getting the

338
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,319
uh ar was on the losing end
of this fight. She claimed that she

339
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,640
had no idea how the injuries to
Stacy occurred. The physical evidence and witness

340
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:22,319
statements ultimately led police nowhere, so
they began considering motives. Who would want

341
00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:29,240
Stacy dead and why. As they
looked into this, they learned something interesting.

342
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,599
On the night that the fight happened, Holly Boysfurt had been dropped off

343
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:40,880
at the house party by two teenage
friends, Amanda Richards and Whitney mcgeehee,

344
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,240
both of whom went to high school
with Stacy. The police eventually discovered that

345
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:52,480
just before Stacey died, Whitney McGehee
had called Stacy and left her an odd

346
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,519
voicemail. When he called Stacy the
day that she died, and left a

347
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,640
voice message on the answer machine that
Stacy would never get. She never got

348
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,160
that voice message, but Whitney left
a very threatening message that you're going to

349
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:14,359
get it tonight. I maybe put
home for I'm alive when you do,

350
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:19,799
being older me because otherwise people are
looking for you. Based on the rumors

351
00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:26,079
that Holly had been spreading about Stacy, Whitney falsely believed that Stacy was bad

352
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,559
mouthing Whitney behind her back and telling
lies about her. It was all petty

353
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:37,200
high school drama, but that didn't
stop Whitney from calling Stacy and seemingly threatening

354
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:44,119
her. Sadly, Stacy never got
this message because she died before she could

355
00:30:44,119 --> 00:30:49,079
hear it. The person who discovered
the voicemail was Stacy's mom, who promptly

356
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:56,680
gave it to police. You also
called Rita, Stacy's mother, and did

357
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,799
you leave a message? And I
don't know exactly what I said at that,

358
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,799
but from what I remember, they
were both dating the same guy and

359
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:10,680
basically what had happened is he was
going back and forth. So Holly,

360
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:14,519
I don't remember her wording, I
don't remember what she said since a long

361
00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:18,720
ago, was basically like not okay
with Stacy. So I had called and

362
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:22,880
left a message and said something along
the lines of you need to call me

363
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:29,200
watch out for her, something like
that. When questioned, Whitney couched her

364
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:34,720
voicemail as a friendly warning. She
claimed that she wasn't making a threat and

365
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:41,240
was only trying to actively warn Stacy
that Holly was going out toget her.

366
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:45,640
Nonetheless, detectives in this case started
to wonder if they were being lied to

367
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:52,519
by everyone. Maybe, just maybe
there was a larger conspiracy going on here.

368
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:59,799
Maybe the rumors that Holly had spread
about Stacy prompted all of these teenagers

369
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:06,200
you plot a murder. Maybe Stacy
was lured to the house party. Maybe

370
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,279
Brandon, Holly, Whitney, and
Abbey all knew exactly what was going to

371
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:17,119
happen when she got there. So
initially detectives began wondering if this was some

372
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,599
kind of a setup, so to
speak, meaning that Brandon Muff wanted both

373
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,079
girls to be at this party,
and that he had an agenda or some

374
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,039
kind of plan. And in fact, when other friends tried to break the

375
00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:37,119
girls up from the fight that was
happening, Brandon had made the comment,

376
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:43,079
no, let them go. Ultimately, if there was some conspiracy among friends

377
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:49,279
to murder Stacy, the police could
never prove it, and the case dragged

378
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:53,799
on. As it did, life
continued for everyone involved, but the lives

379
00:32:53,839 --> 00:33:00,240
they were living weren't easy. In
particular, Holly Boys pretty much became a

380
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:07,279
social outcast and struggled to finish her
education at Wayne High School. So after

381
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,359
Stacy's death, it's my understanding,
and from everything that I've been able to

382
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:15,559
gather, is that Holly Boys were
it was kind of not real popular.

383
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,440
There were a lot of people talking. People believed that she was responsible for

384
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,480
the death. They didn't know how
necessarily, but they believed that she was

385
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:28,599
responsible. And those assumptions were based
on the fact that she was the only

386
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:35,400
one involved in a physical altercation with
Stacy de grand Champ and ultimately moments later

387
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:40,200
she was dead. According to Whitney
mcgeey, she and all of Holly's former

388
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:45,359
friends pretty much cut Holly out of
their lives. We all washed our hands

389
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:51,119
on her once to heaven. Did
you talk to her at any point after

390
00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:55,119
this fight took place. I know
that I had caught her one time and

391
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,720
asked her did she do it?
And she basically to me? And I

392
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:02,960
never talked to her again, and
I was just done with it. I

393
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:09,199
couldn't. Eventually, Holly's family committed
Holly to a mental hospital out of fear

394
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,840
that she might kill herself after that
fight. Did she have to go get

395
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,559
a little bit of help because it
kind of got in her head a little

396
00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:20,920
bit? Well, my dad said
he didn't want it to He didn't want

397
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,079
her to hit mess up from it, so he kind of made her going

398
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:29,079
there where she would part She did
behavioral as Holly was dealing with all of

399
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:34,039
this. Stacy's family was still waiting
for answers and still waiting for justice to

400
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:40,960
be handed out. Unfortunately, those
answers and justice itself never showed up.

401
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,000
After we met with the detective,
he's promised us that he won't stop until

402
00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:51,119
he gets the person that did this. We kind of held on to that

403
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,119
promise in the hopes that justice would
be served, you know any day now

404
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:58,159
where we're waiting for that phone call, any date to come through to say

405
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,480
hey, we've arrested Holly and how
she's going to be charged with murder,

406
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,679
and that phone call just never happened. For Stacy's family, The days,

407
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,519
weeks, and months dragged on and
the de grand Champ case went cold.

408
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:20,960
Many years passed without any arrests being
made. Initial detectives took this case,

409
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,360
I believe as far as they thought
that they could go. There was a

410
00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:30,599
lot of misconception around the wounds.
It was a little baffling as to how

411
00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:36,920
she got stabbed or how she got
cut. Stacy de grand Champ was murdered

412
00:35:37,119 --> 00:35:40,719
in August of two thousand and two, and it wasn't until twenty nineteen that

413
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:49,199
the case was officially looked into again
that year, Stacy's cousin Jamie McMillan reached

414
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,559
out to cold case detective Brian Martin
and asked him to take a look at

415
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:59,360
it, which he did. From
there, Detective Martin began the long process

416
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:06,119
of tracking down the witnesses and everyone
involved in the case. Remarkably, Detective

417
00:36:06,159 --> 00:36:12,480
Martin was eventually able to solve the
crime and deliver just a little bit of

418
00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:59,719
justice to Stacy's family. In August
of two thousand and two, seventeen year

419
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,840
olds Stacy de grand Champ died after
getting into a fight with her schoolmate Holly

420
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,440
Boisverd. Stacy and Holly both dated
an older guy named Brandon Muff and this

421
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:15,800
generated a whole lot of pettiness between
the two girls and their friends. Insults

422
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,679
were lobbied, rumors were spread,
and lies were told. It was teenage

423
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:27,920
girl drama that most people wouldn't take
seriously, but it all became very serious

424
00:37:28,039 --> 00:37:31,960
when a fight broke out between Stacy
and Holly, and Stacy later died as

425
00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:38,199
a result. Unfortunately, when initial
homicide detectives investigated this case, they couldn't

426
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:44,280
make sense of how Stacy sustained two
life threatening injuries to her chest and abdomen.

427
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:50,400
Brandon Muff and other witnesses to the
fight claimed they never saw Holly or

428
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:54,760
anyone with a knife, and a
murder weapon was never found. For many

429
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,000
years, this case languished and eventually
went cold, all the way while Stacy's

430
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:07,239
family waited for answers and for justice. Then, in twenty nineteen, Stacy's

431
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:15,079
cousin, Jamie McMillan, reached out
to cold case homicide detective Brian Martin and

432
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,719
asked him to look into the case, which he did. One of the

433
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,760
first things that Detective Martin did was
consider some of the original theories that might

434
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:29,360
have explained how Stacy was injured.
This included the possibility that Stacy was cut

435
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,079
by glass after the fight with Holly. According to Brandon Muff, when he

436
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,199
broke up the fight, Stacy stumbled
and fell into some nearby recycling bins,

437
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:45,440
and the thinking was that she may
have gotten jabbed by broken glass. When

438
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,159
this happened, I can tell you
that when I began looking at this case,

439
00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:52,920
one of the first things I did
was look for blood around the recycle

440
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:58,840
bin and look for broken glass or
look for sharp objects, and quite Honestly,

441
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,559
I found no blood around that recycle
ben and the photographs. I did

442
00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,440
not find any broken glass. I
didn't see evidence that broken glass was swept

443
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:13,039
up or cleaned up. I also
looked at the wounds and the injuries and

444
00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:19,239
the reports from trauma centered doctors as
well as Corners staff, and quickly realized

445
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,760
this was not the type of injury
from my training experience and from the reports

446
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:28,519
I was reading that would have been
sustained by broken glass and atens and purposes,

447
00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:30,280
I believe that she was stabbed.
It was a knife and she was

448
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:37,039
stabbed. Another important thing that Detective
Martin did was reinterview many of the people

449
00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:42,079
who had some sort of link to
this case, and that included Brandon Muff

450
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,599
So I was able to speak with
Brandon muff an additional time. He was

451
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:51,679
very upset, he was emotional.
He said he felt horrible. He said

452
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:55,280
that this had affected him and that
he has a lot of regret over the

453
00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,719
fact that he felt that he had
put the girls in the situation or they

454
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,159
fought and it was because of him, and that he was young and doing

455
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,719
dumb stuff, and he really regretted
some of his choices back then, after

456
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:16,400
almost twenty years and now thirty eight
year old Brandon Muff acknowledged that inviting both

457
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:22,159
Stacy and Holly to his house party
was a very poor decision and he deeply

458
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:28,440
regretted his part in putting the girls
in that position. Even so, when

459
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,880
Detective Martin questioned him, his story
about what happened didn't change, and he

460
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,519
still couldn't explain how Stacy was stabbed. The other theory about the case that

461
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:44,920
was tossed around was the possibility that
Stacy's death was some kind of conspiracy among

462
00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:51,320
Brandon, Holly, and others.
Perhaps Stacy was lured to Brandon's house party

463
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:57,320
in order to be murdered. Perhaps
it was all set up. But ultimately

464
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,639
the initial detectives and Detective Martin could
never find any evidence to back this up.

465
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,800
Initial detectives, as well as myself, did not really find that there

466
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:14,400
was anything to substantiate that Brandon Muff
had a hidden agenda to get the girls

467
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,079
together so that something like this could
happen. For Detective Martin, there was

468
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:24,400
really only one explanation to account for
how Stacy got stabbed. It had to

469
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,760
have happened during the fight with Holly, and Holly must have successfully concealed the

470
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:37,119
fact that she had a knife.
Holly must have felt that she was getting

471
00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:39,039
the roll end of the deal,
or she was pissed off, and she

472
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,840
stabbed Stacy twice, once in the
abdomen and once in the upper chest,

473
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,199
and it caused Stacy to begin to
bleed to death right there at the scene.

474
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:57,199
Officially, Holly Boysburt became Detective Martin's
main suspect, and this meant tracking

475
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,519
her down and finding out where she
landed so many years later, and I

476
00:42:00,599 --> 00:42:06,639
was able to find that Holly Boisberg
was actually living in Fond de Lac,

477
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,320
Wisconsin. It appeared that she was
not working. I found that she was

478
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,199
living in an apartment complex, and
then it appeared she had a younger son.

479
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:21,119
Detective Martin interviewed several people who were
connected to the case, but he

480
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:25,440
saved Holly for last, and he
didn't tell her he was coming. Instead,

481
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:30,440
he and another detective just showed up
at her doorstep, and ultimately Holly

482
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:35,880
came to the door. She was
wearing pajamas and a T shirt. She

483
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,400
came to the door. She looked
a little shot, kind of had a

484
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,719
blank stare on her face. Hey
Holly, how are you. I'm Ausin

485
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,840
Martin the soft snow. We were
hoping to bend your ear for a minute.

486
00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:50,079
Awesome. Holly did invite us in
and let us sit down and begin

487
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:53,000
speaking with her about the case.
At the start of this interview, Holly

488
00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:59,360
was questioned about the fight she had
with Stacy, and Holly explained the details

489
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:04,760
of the just kicks and hair pulling
that took place. Her head was closer

490
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,320
to your feet and no, how
was she kicking in the head. Then

491
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:14,719
she was like on her back and
I was kind of half on my side.

492
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,760
I guess how do you think that
Stacy got cut? I have no

493
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:23,800
idea. Everybody there, we were
all friends, like you and Stacy had

494
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,639
kind of had a little beef going
on because of Brandon. It was so

495
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,639
stupid that way it was. I
agree. It was like one of those

496
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:36,119
just petty high school girl things,
right exactly. So you and Stacy had

497
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:39,639
kind of had this little beef That's
what led to this fight. Did you

498
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:45,960
have your pocket knife with you that
day? Honestly? That one like it

499
00:43:45,039 --> 00:43:51,199
was one of the little like fold
folding a folding knife. Is it possible

500
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,920
that you had it with you when
you guys were having your little tussela match

501
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,719
in the backyard. No. Hollie
admitted that she did usually carry a knife

502
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:04,039
with her for protection, but she
claimed that she didn't have it on her

503
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:07,559
during the fight with Stacy. She
explained that she kept the knife in her

504
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:13,320
purse, but she wasn't carrying when
the fight happened. Holly insisted that she

505
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,599
would have never stabbed Stacy because despite
the anger they had for each other,

506
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:22,440
Holly still considered Stacy to be a
friend. She was my friend. We

507
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,719
were terrible teenage girls, but she
was still my friend. I would not

508
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,159
have done that to her intentionally.
I never would have pulled a knife on

509
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:35,440
her. Like I had no intention
of fighting her. I didn't know that

510
00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:38,480
she was gonna be there. We
were terrible bitches to each other, but

511
00:44:38,519 --> 00:44:43,320
she was still my friend. She's
your friend. But you guys were also

512
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,719
in a pretty good pisson match over
a boy. If there, if you

513
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:52,079
had a pocket knife and she got
cut by it, then I just need

514
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:55,559
to know that I just have still
had it. It's like, even if

515
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,880
that would have happened when they pulled
us apart, I would have still had

516
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,679
Holly attempted to make the very idea
of her having a knife seem impossible.

517
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,880
Surely, if she had a knife, the police would have found it on

518
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:15,800
her after the fight. Either that
or Holly stashed the knife somewhere before cops

519
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:22,639
arrived on scene, which is exactly
what Holly allegedly told Brandon that she did.

520
00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:24,960
A couple of days later, when
I called Holly on the phone and

521
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,800
I got to talking to her about
what happened, and she proceeded to tell

522
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,480
her that she, you know,
that she didn't stab her, but that

523
00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:37,079
she had a knife, and and
asked her, well, what did what

524
00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:42,480
did she do with the knife?
And she told me that after Stacy fell

525
00:45:42,519 --> 00:45:45,639
on the ground, she went in
the house, washed her hands, stepped

526
00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:47,480
outside the front door, and there
was a white car park out front of

527
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:52,119
like a Lincoln some floor door.
She said that she placed the knife on

528
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,440
the back of it of the gardeners
the window. Detective Martin and his partner

529
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,320
believed and were confident that Holly did
have a knife on her during the fight,

530
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:07,079
and that Holly stabbed Stacy to death. They also believe that Holly was

531
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:09,519
still lying about it. What do
you think happened to her? How do

532
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:14,360
you think she got those stab wounds. I don't know. I thought at

533
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,320
one point that it was glass.
That was the only thing that I could

534
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,679
think of. I have all the
reports, all the autopsy reports. Glass

535
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,880
did not cut her. It was
a puncture wound from a knife. Holly.

536
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,960
This this is the time. If
there's some stuff you want to get

537
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,119
off your chest, do it.
There's no dispute that you and Stacy got

538
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:38,039
into it, and Stacy's wounds happened
during the fight. I'm just trying to

539
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:44,079
figure out how or why. There
is no way it did. That is

540
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,920
very well articulated by the medical facts
that were gained from the autopsy. There's

541
00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:52,400
no way that that would have happened
without me realizing it. If you had

542
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,760
the pocket knife on you and you
got tussling, yeah, I mean,

543
00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:00,320
just tell me, because otherwise it
looks it just doesn't look good. I

544
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:05,119
know that if I even felt like
that was a remote possibility, then I

545
00:47:05,159 --> 00:47:08,440
would say that. And I never
I never have I never would have pulled

546
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,960
a knife on anybody. Despite the
attempts to get her to admit otherwise,

547
00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:20,199
Holly maintained that she did not have
a knife and that she never stabbed Stacy.

548
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,760
This left Detective Martin with only one
option. Holly, I could tell

549
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,400
by looking at you and from talking
to you and watching you, watching you

550
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,920
breathe, just watching your eyes go. You just gotta say it. There's

551
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:36,559
nothing for me to say. All
Right, I'm gonna tell you what's going

552
00:47:36,639 --> 00:47:38,920
to happen. Then I'm going to
go back to Fort Wayne and I'm going

553
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,360
to present the case to the prosecutor's
office, and I'm gonna charge you with

554
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,840
murder. After this harsh reality was
made clear to Holly, she did something

555
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:52,360
that nobody saw coming. Again.
Holly did admit to having a pocket knife

556
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,920
in her purse on the night that
Stacy was stabbed, but she claimed that

557
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:02,400
she wasn't carrying it during a fight. On a whim, Detective Martin asked

558
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:07,840
Holly if she still had that knife. Do you still have that pocket knife?

559
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:13,079
By chance? I might, so
as we're talking, I asked the

560
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:16,880
question, do you still have this
pocket knife from back then that you would

561
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,360
have had the knight of the stabbing. I had no inkling that she was

562
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:23,559
going to say, yeah, I
still have this knife for oh well,

563
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:28,519
maybe I still have this knife.
But Holly said that she believed that she

564
00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:34,000
did. She got up and she
walked back into a back bedroom. Holly

565
00:48:34,119 --> 00:48:37,360
came back with a small package or
a small box and had a knife in

566
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:43,760
it and hated me the pocket knife. It's not every day that a murder

567
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:50,119
suspect hands over a potential murder weapon
directly to the police, but sure enough,

568
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:57,320
that's exactly what happened here. Holly
even offered up a little bag for

569
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:04,599
the evidence. Are you saying I
can have it? Yes? Oh yeah,

570
00:49:04,639 --> 00:49:07,280
if you get a zep blog bag, I'll say it. I was

571
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,599
almost speechless because it shocked me.
I think that she wanted to show me

572
00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:15,440
that she was trying to be cooperative, and that by showing her cooperation that

573
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:20,000
maybe I would stop talking to her. I think it's probably one of those

574
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,320
things that for many years she looked
over her shoulder, always wondering when somebody

575
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,760
was going to come try and talk
to her about this case, and enough

576
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,440
time had passed that she was starting
to feel comfortable. So I think I

577
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:32,760
really shocked her and took her out
of her element. And when you do

578
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:38,480
that to people, they tend to
do bizarre there's oftentimes bizarre behavior. After

579
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:45,079
receiving this knife Detective Martin headed back
to Fort Wayne and had a pathologist examine

580
00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:52,920
it along with photographs of Stacy's injuries, and this pathologist stated that the knife

581
00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:59,400
was completely consistent with a weapon that
would cause the injuries that killed Stacy.

582
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,039
I then immediately packaged up the knife
and it was sent to the Indiana State

583
00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:10,039
Police Lab for forensic testing. The
knife was completely taken apart down in all

584
00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:15,880
the nooks and crannies. It was
swabbed and no DNA for Stacy de green

585
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,000
Champ and no DNA at all was
located on this knife. DNA was a

586
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:27,400
long shot, but given the pathologists'
findings, Detective Martin felt he had enough

587
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,760
evidence to arrest Holly for murder,
and Fort Wayne prosecutors agreed. In March

588
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:38,239
of twenty twenty, almost twenty years
after the murder, Holly Boysvurt was finally

589
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:44,559
arrested for the killing of Stacy de
grand Chair. I had Holly taken to

590
00:50:44,599 --> 00:50:49,079
an interview room at the fund elect
Police Department. I attempted to interview Holly.

591
00:50:49,199 --> 00:50:52,719
She was very stand offish. I
saw a different side of Holly.

592
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,760
I saw a pissed off side of
Holly. She was very indignant with me

593
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,719
and thought that I was messing with
her, and she felt that people picked

594
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:05,719
on her. She felt that she
was the victim of everything. So after

595
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,119
that interview, or our lack thereof
an interview, Holly was transported back to

596
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:14,400
the Fort Wayne Police Department. After
Holly was arrested, it didn't take long

597
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:20,000
for this news to reach Stacy's cousin
Jamie McMillan and the rest of Stacy's family.

598
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:23,280
I was ecstatic. I was speechless. It brought me back to that

599
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:28,039
same day that I found out that
she died. Hours later of saying to

600
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,719
myself, we are going to get
the person that did this, that my

601
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:37,400
motivation is to see her behind bars, and that feeling of sadness, but

602
00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:43,880
completely overjoyed that this finally happened.
It was amazing. I couldn't wait to

603
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,000
call my aunt and for us to
say those words, we got her,

604
00:51:47,079 --> 00:51:51,679
we got her. She's behind bars
and she's going to stay there for a

605
00:51:51,679 --> 00:51:55,920
long time. Even though Holly was
behind bars, the police investigation didn't stop.

606
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:01,519
If anything, it only ramped up
and some very important information came the

607
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:07,679
light. On the night that Stacy
was stabbed, Holly had been previously dropped

608
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:13,440
off at the house party by two
of her friends, Whitney mcgeehee and Amanda

609
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:21,599
Richards. Whitney claims she never saw
Holly with a knife, but apparently Amanda

610
00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:25,920
did. We got to the house
that night, and before we got there,

611
00:52:27,519 --> 00:52:30,280
Holly always had a knife that she
carried with her, so she always

612
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:35,840
kept a knife on her for protection. Well, that night she took the

613
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,519
knife with her when we got there. She had me hold it in my

614
00:52:39,639 --> 00:52:44,039
purse. You know. While we
were there, Whitney and I started getting

615
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:46,920
like just a weird feeling. We
were just ready to go, and we

616
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:52,639
tried to get Holly, like conmence
Holly to leave with us, but because

617
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:57,880
Brandon was still there, Holly didn't
want to leave, okay, So as

618
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,679
Whitney and I were getting ready to
leave, Holly asked me for the knife

619
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,280
back, and I didn't think anything
of it, you know, so I

620
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:09,000
gave it back to her. This
information that Amanda gave to police was a

621
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:15,960
startling revelation. It was potentially firsthand
testimony of someone putting a knife into Holly's

622
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:22,199
hands within an hour of Stacy de
grand Champ being stabbed to death. This,

623
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:29,199
of course begged the question why did
it take so long for Amanda to

624
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:34,320
tell this story? Amanda came forward
with this information. I don't know why

625
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,360
she didn't come up with it prior. Maybe she didn't think about it,

626
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,519
Maybe it wasn't something that really keyed
in on her, or maybe she was

627
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:45,039
in disbelief or or didn't want to
believe that something like this could happen.

628
00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:49,679
Maybe she was scared that, oh
God, I'm the one that gave Holly

629
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,000
her knife back and led to this
death. I don't know that we'll ever

630
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:59,960
know truly why this information didn't get
to us until so late. Amanda's very

631
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,920
of the events could have easily been
scrutinized by a defense attorney during a trial,

632
00:54:05,679 --> 00:54:09,119
but that didn't change the fact that
Fort Wayne prosecutors had a pretty solid

633
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:15,400
case against Holly. This was a
very strong case with great physical evidence as

634
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:21,039
far as a possible murder weapon that
was obtained. It's consistent with the injuries.

635
00:54:21,079 --> 00:54:24,079
The injuries are definitely stab wounds.
We have individual who is putting,

636
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:30,480
you know, Amanda's putting a knife
in Holly's hand just prior to the altercation.

637
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,880
This is all very strong evidence.
Initially, Holly Boisberg pleaded not guilty

638
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,599
to killing Stacy, but after being
presented with the evidence that the state had,

639
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:45,679
she eventually accepted a plea deal.
As part of that agreement, Holly

640
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:52,920
would finally have to admit in court
that she killed Stacy the grand cham Holly

641
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,679
took the stand and the judge asked
her, do you know while you're here?

642
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,320
And she said, yes, I
was in a fight and I took

643
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:06,639
a knife and I stabbed these degreem
shamp twice. He said, you stabbed

644
00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:08,920
her twice. Yes, I stabbed
her twice and that resulted in her death.

645
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:15,000
And that's what I had been waiting
to hear for so many years,

646
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:19,920
was the confession that she in fact
did kill Stacy, even though in our

647
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,239
minds we knew all along. But
to have that confession, Stacy's family finally

648
00:55:23,559 --> 00:55:29,719
got some answers, and after Holly
admitted to the crime, it was time

649
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,760
for her to be sentenced. Holly
was very quiet in court. They asked

650
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,960
her if she had anything to say. Holly said no. The judge then

651
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:43,119
said, you know, you should
apologize to the family and she said,

652
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,920
I'm sorry, and that's it.
It was very generic. It was not

653
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,840
heartfelt at all. I can tell
you that I do not believe that Holly

654
00:55:54,119 --> 00:56:00,440
was truly remorseful for what she had
done. During the sentence phase, Holly

655
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:07,119
didn't do herself any favors. Despite
this, and considering that she committed a

656
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:13,840
murder, Hollie did walk away with
a pretty good deal. Holly's sentencing was

657
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:22,119
twenty years behind bars, and she
already had served two years in Allen County

658
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:30,920
Jail before her sentencing almost and she
ended up getting which if she has good

659
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,440
behavior, she will get out early, and that would practically mean that she

660
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,000
would only have another additional eight years
to serve, which is not at all

661
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:45,280
serving justice in my mind, and
those twenty years should have held up.

662
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:50,280
I don't feel like her serving ten
years behind bars is enough for murdering someone.

663
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,519
Would I'd like to see her get
more time. Absolutely, I would

664
00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:57,400
have liked to see that because I
feel that it's very it's just so unjust

665
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:02,119
for Stacy and Stacy's family to know
that person who killed their loved one has

666
00:57:02,159 --> 00:57:07,400
been living their life for the last
twenty years just doing whatever they want to

667
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:12,559
do, raised the child and Stacy
never had that. With good behavior,

668
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,119
Holly could be released from prison as
early as twenty thirty and may only serve

669
00:57:17,519 --> 00:57:22,920
ten years, though that will require
her to petition a parole board, and

670
00:57:23,519 --> 00:57:30,000
Jamie intends to be there when she
does, along with several other members of

671
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:36,320
the family. For them, the
fight continues to ensure that justice is truly

672
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,320
done. It's worth noting that Stacy
and her family aren't the only victims here,

673
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,679
so too are all of Stacy's friends. For example, Abby was the

674
00:57:46,719 --> 00:57:52,599
one who convinced Stacy to go to
this party, despite Stacy's reservations. Abby

675
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:59,039
also drove Stacy there. She has
to live with that for the rest of

676
00:57:59,079 --> 00:58:02,519
her life. I mean, I've
gone this whole time trying to help my

677
00:58:02,599 --> 00:58:07,760
life and try and get over this, like anxiety and depression took years to

678
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:13,440
get over, and it's still a
struggle with trust. And you think somebody's

679
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,599
your friend and they're going to have
your back and they love this kind of

680
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:19,119
stuff happened to you and your friends. Sure, I mean it's hard,

681
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:24,119
I get it. Similarly, everyone
who was close to Stacy during those important

682
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:30,559
developmental years of high school mut's cope
with the trauma of all of this.

683
00:58:30,159 --> 00:58:35,079
It's one thing to say your friend
was murdered, but then to say,

684
00:58:35,079 --> 00:58:38,119
your friend's murdered by your other friend. That was one of the most messed

685
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:40,880
up things I've ever had to deal
with in my life. We were all

686
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,679
so messed up from it. You
were just You're not the first person to

687
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:50,800
tell me. I mean, it
really screwed melft worst thing that ever happened

688
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,199
in my life. There are many
victims in this case, and it goes

689
00:58:53,199 --> 00:59:00,519
without saying that nobody has suffered more
than Stacy's family. They continue to feel

690
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:07,599
Stacy's absence while also always wondering what
could have been. There's avoid there's a

691
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:10,880
gap. We all feel it.
Every holiday. There's always somebody missing.

692
00:59:12,119 --> 00:59:15,360
No matter how many years have passed, it's still her presence seems to be

693
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,000
there, and it's extremely unfair that
it's not. We think about her all

694
00:59:20,039 --> 00:59:22,199
the time. I think about how
many kids she would have. I think

695
00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:27,559
about how happy her mom would be
having grandchildren, being that Stacy was her

696
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:32,639
only child and she doesn't get to
do that. While Holly's confession and conviction

697
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:38,320
provided Stacy's family with some relief,
it doesn't change the fact that Stacy is

698
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:45,440
gone forever. As Detective Martin puts
it, the idea of getting closure in

699
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:51,079
a murder case is pretty much a
bunch of nonsense. I think closure is

700
00:59:51,079 --> 00:59:53,559
a bullshit word and a murder case, and I firmly believe that. And

701
00:59:53,599 --> 01:00:00,239
I believe that because no one can
wrap their head around or fully have closure.

702
01:00:00,679 --> 01:00:04,559
I always describe it to people as
your life is a book. Maybe

703
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:08,760
I helped write a little bit of
that ending chapter and told them how and

704
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:15,280
answer some of the questions why and
how their loved one passed away. But

705
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,239
then they have to learn the new
normal they have. These families have to

706
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:22,679
learn what the next chapter of life
is, how does it look without their

707
01:00:22,679 --> 01:00:25,360
loved one now that they have these
answers that they've been looking for for so

708
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:31,079
long. As for Stacy's family,
the next chapter and subsequent chapters of life

709
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:37,800
don't come with much closure, if
any at all. Not only do they

710
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:43,639
have to deal with the fact that
Stacy is gone, but also they are

711
01:00:43,679 --> 01:00:49,559
going to eventually have to argue to
a parole board that Holly should stay in

712
01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:55,599
prison. For them, the pursuit
of justice is a never ending battle,

713
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:04,719
one that they never asked to fight. On top of that, some of

714
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:10,480
Stacy's family members still aren't entirely sure
that Holly was the only person responsible for

715
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:15,320
Stacy's death. I feel as if
in my mind that there may have been

716
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:20,800
some type of conspiracy between friends.
I do think Brandon was upset that Stacy

717
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,400
broke up with him. I do
think he was trying to get back with

718
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:27,239
her. I'm not one hundred percent
certain on anything, but just in my

719
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,199
own, my own mind, this
conspiracy of thinking that she was brought there

720
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:35,320
that night and it wasn't what she
wanted to do, just nothing made sense

721
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,320
to me. And maybe believe that
that, you know, Brandon knew something

722
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,760
more than what he's ever told the
detectives. I felt like Abby knew more

723
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:47,159
than what she ever told the detectives. I felt like Amanda handing Holly that

724
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:52,199
knife that night. Those were things
that I did not know. That has

725
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,880
kind of come about over the last
couple of years. The idea that there

726
01:01:55,119 --> 01:02:02,079
was a conspiracy among friends to murder
Stacy seems unlikely, mainly because when Holly

727
01:02:02,159 --> 01:02:07,840
confessed, she did not implicate anyone
else. But that's not the point.

728
01:02:08,159 --> 01:02:13,800
The point is that in this case, and in almost all murder cases,

729
01:02:14,719 --> 01:02:21,159
there will always be unanswered questions,
and because of that, closure can never

730
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:28,639
truly happen. There is also another, albeit more broad takeaway from this story,

731
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:36,239
which is don't take life and romance
too seriously. Life is precious and

732
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,960
life is valuable, and don't sweat
the dumb shit. Boyfriend's girlfriends will come

733
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,159
from our lives in and out,
and when you're seventeen years old, that

734
01:02:44,239 --> 01:02:46,360
may seem like, God, this
is the leve of my life. But

735
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:52,800
we all know that with love there's
heartbreak and we pick up the pieces and

736
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:59,199
we move on. So we can't
get so engrossed in something at such a

737
01:02:59,239 --> 01:03:02,840
young age that caused somebody to lose
their life. The murder of seventeen year

738
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:08,480
old Stacy de grand Champ happened for
absolutely no reason and could have resulted in

739
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:15,000
something as simple as a shouting match
between two teenage girls, maybe even a

740
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,400
fistfight and some hair pulling in a
parking lot somewhere. It never had to

741
01:03:19,559 --> 01:03:27,159
escalate to the point that Holly took
it. Tragically, Holly did escalate it

742
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:36,199
to exactly that point. A young
and promising life was lost, countless victims

743
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:44,760
were made, and almost two years
later, Holly Boisburg ends up in a

744
01:03:44,880 --> 01:04:25,920
prison cell. Well, that's going
to do it. For another one.

745
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,119
Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back here for plus

746
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:33,239
members next week. By the way, the black on black embroidered fitted hat

747
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:38,760
on our store was such a success
that we made a new one. It's

748
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:51,679
the white on white fitted hat.
Go check it out Swordscale dot com.

749
01:04:51,719 --> 01:05:38,719
Oh, and stay safe, hey, Mike and Sword and Scale teams.

750
01:05:39,639 --> 01:05:45,639
I think this message belongs here for
sure, because everybody needs to know how

751
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:49,880
awesome with the new apples. It
is super clean, man, I refreshed,

752
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:56,519
and all of a sudden, I'm
staring at I mean, it's beautiful,

753
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,800
really, it truly is. And
I watched the teaser for the TV

754
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,119
show that looks amazing as well.
It seems like you're really pulling it off

755
01:06:04,239 --> 01:06:09,440
and it's really cool to see happening
in real time. Man, finally did

756
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:15,360
it. So congratulations to all you
guys, and I'll never stop listening.

757
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:26,840
That's all for life.