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Hardware Knox listeners. I am Damp Valley, coming at you without my co
host Adam from all this time. I am, however, super pleased to
be joined by fellow Blue Wire podcaster and co host specifically of the Timeline podcast
about the Phoenix Suns, Mike val Mike Veal, Sorry, I told you
I was gonna like mess it up out of like thinking about it too much.
You can follow him on Twitter if you were not already at protected pick
spelled exactly as it sounds. If you cannot tell from that intro, we
are going to be diving deep into the Phoenix Sun, So get ready.
But first and foremost, Mike, how are you doing. I'm really good.
I'm really excited to talk about this team. As we were talking a
little bit before we started recording here, there's a lot of intrigue in the
Suns this offseason, so I'm excited that people care. That's a lot that
more than previous off seasons. I think, well, this is like a
referendum on nothing. But our content plan here is like it has to shift.
Because we thought we had through January going to deep dives with all thirty
teams, and now I'm at a point where like, well, we're gonna
have to consolidate some of these outlooks and I'm going to do the singular dives
and the teams that I find most interesting. And the Suns were like they
made the cut of a team that does that because they're so And I sent
you the outline of questions I want to talk to you about. There's just
so many different directions this offseason alone could go, and then you also just
have to weigh it against like what that actually means for next season in the
context of not just their future but competing in the Western Conference. Yeah,
and you know, I want to ask you, is that specifically bubble related
or do you think you would have the same interest without that eight eight No,
because I do think and it's okay if it's because of the bubble,
for the record, but I just curious. I don't think it is.
So I think maybe it's more optimistic leaning because of the bubble. But I
always would have been fascinated by them because I don't necessarily think I mean,
this touches on what I was first going to ask you is how the performance
like impact in the bubble impacted how they're going to try to build this team
immediately. But I just feel like that sense of urgency, even knowing there's
gonna be you know, let's say twelve to all fifteen teams and less trying
to compete for the playoff spot. I don't think them going, you know,
four and four in the bubble, two and six in the bubble.
Not even making the bubble would have thrust them into a different sort of timeline.
They've already maxed out Devin Booker, they spent on Ricky Rubio DeAndre Eton
is really good now, and so from my point of view, it felt
like they were going to be trying to be good all along. And I
think the lack of spending power in this market and flexibility among teams is actually
probably what makes them more fascinating than anything else. Yeah, you know,
I agree with that, And I think it's just interesting because the eight and
oh things, it's set expectations different for so many different people. I think
James Jones, to his credit, said that he's not gonna let what happened
at the Bubble dictate how they run this off season, which in my opinion,
is the right approach as good as it was. The situation was so
unique, so different from what any season is going to be like going forward,
that you can't read too much into like every single thing that happened specifically
in that bubble. So but for a lot of people now they just expect
the playoffs if they even like stood pat and didn't make a lot of moves,
which I think could happen, but maybe it won't. And I know
we're gonna get into that, yeah, So like that's the you know,
and we'll go deeper into the postseason like throughout or the offseason, excuse me,
throughout this podcast, But like what are they, like what type of
player away? Are they from being a foregone conclusion playoff team or are they
more than one player away from entering that territory. So that's a very interesting
question that would garner a lot of different answers depending on who you talk to.
I think, like if you like a lot of people talk about Chris
Paul specifically, and forgive me for the people who hate the idea of Chris
Paul that are listening for bringing it up so early in the podcast here,
but if Chris Paul's on the Suns, you give up Ricky Rubio and Kelly
uber that's a playoff team. Like, that's that's definitely a playoff team.
You're also giving up on Kelly Ubra and you and you're giving up on Ricky
Rubio. And I think the value of Ricky Rubio is something that's very hotly
disputed among NBA twitters, So I think a lot of people might have different
opinions on that as well. But if you throw that out, because I
think there's a chance that Chris Paul just doesn't want to play for a Robert
Sarver owned team, like, just throw that out entirely. Then you look
at the team itself. And when I look at the team, there's two
things that stand out when you look at a lot of the stats. I
think they had one of the best lineups in the NBA. The starting lineup
that included Michael Bridges and Kelly Ubre that was one of the best lineups.
In fact, I think it may have ended the season at the top of
net ratings of five man lineups in the NBA. And another stat that stood
out to me is of starting backcourts. The Ricky Rubio Devin Booker backcourt was
the fourth best in the NBA as well at plus seven point three. This
is in net rating. So if you look at the starting line and saying,
well, that's already pretty good, then why did they lose so many
games? Well, one, DeAndre Aten was suspended twenty five games. That
affects them a lot too. They had no backup guards that could really control
the ball. You know, the best backup guard they had during the season
was Javon Carter. Javon Carter can't really penetrate, he can't really create his
own shot, and he's not creating shots for other people. He has value
and I like him a lot. But if that's the guy that's coming off
the bench and controlling the offense when Devin Booker and Ricky Rubia are off the
floor, it's not going to go very well. So if you just isolate
that, then you say, if you could fix that backup, that bench
scoring, and those bench guards, then I think that would go along ways.
Whether or not that could be enough to make the playoffs will depend on
a lot of other things. How the West shakes out and health. I
think that matters a lot too. Like if Aaron Baines was just healthy the
entire season as well, even without DeAndre eight and it's possible the Suns would
have already made the playoffs this season. And that's what I think when people
point to, like, there were some matchups that favor them definitely in the
bubble, and like you said, even just the sheer unprecedented circumstances of it
all could just that gives itself to wacky outcomes. But they dealt with not
having eighten for so long, and then Baines was totally banged up for much
of the year, and then you had Diosaurs was just playing like absolute ass
basically until Disney World, where I felt like, oh, they were definitely
going to renounce him, and I's like, well, is he like the
guy, like that punch off the bench that they actually need, And so,
like, I actually do feel that maybe not exactly what we saw in
the bubble to success, but it feels like this team is closer to that
version of themselves than they would be to an inferior version or wherever we might
have seen through the first quarter half of the regular season. Yeah, and
I agree with that. And if you remember the first you know, eleven
games, there were seven and four, and there was a lot of talk
about the Suns at that point of the season because it looked relatively good and
Baines was of course on a heater for a while where he just couldn't miss.
And then, you know, and just so people know what happened to
Baines, he took a knee in the ribs from Jalen Brown that basically took
him out for a while, and when he came back, it took a
while for that shot to get going again. And then when he came back
into bubble, he actually had COVID, so he didn't play in the bubble
because he hadn't fully recovered by the time those games were done. But yeah,
I think I agree with you. I think the one thing I will
say is if they do sort of keep this roster together and Charts is an
interesting one that you brought up and try to improve that bench role, this
is a chance that they easily make it in the playoffs. But I think
the likelihood is they're still sort of competing for that seventh and eighth spot,
which at this point now is not even necessarily a playoff team. It's a
play in team. They have to win a tournament to still make the playoffs.
At that point, And for me, I'd feel a lot more comfortable
if the Suns were the sixth seed at that point. And I think if
you want to shoot for the sixth seed, you might have to look for
something a little bit better. And it gets pretty complicated as we're gonna get
into. Yeah, I mean, look, this year sixteen was playing it
almost in the jazz was playing it almost a fifty wind pace. It's like,
that's a really paul order for a team that was playing a closer,
like a forty win pace. But before delving into again, we'll get back
to the offseason. I have to. We're gonna start with Devin Booker and
we're just gonna come up with all these hypothetical trades for him. I'm absolutely
just kidding, dare you? It does seem like I know, there's been
definitely a chasm in the past between how Sons have valued him and then how
just nationally people have valued him. And look, that always happens, I
think with you know, fans and their stars and then national puntins. But
like this was like a huge like it was just there was a galaxy separating
it. And I feel like that sort of bridge now where the empty calories
label at least feels like it's gone. And I don't know that it and
I can't even I don't think I ever said he was, but maybe I
did. I don't know that it ever should have been there, because I
think at that point, can you plead like heavy usage while being super young,
like that's an actual that's an actual thing. But knowing that that empty
calories label, even if whether it need to be there or not, is
officially gone, what is it that you have been most impressed by over the
past couple of years from him, or maybe something that you still think is
just undercovered about what he does? Well, I think what's sort of difficult
to talk about with Devin Booker particularly is his route in the NBA. And
actually, you know what, Dan, I hate, I hate to.
I hate to change the subject here, but I think we may have to
because Brian Windhorst just tweeted the Phoenix Suns have had discussions about acquiring Chris Paul
from the Okase Thunder sources tell me and Tim bondtips story forthcoming that just that
just happened just now. I think that was just tweeted while we were talking
about it. It's funny. I turned my phone over when the notification came
up because I just assume that they're nothing notifications now and I have to get
out of the habit of it being that. Look, we can talk unless
you have to go now to record the time path, like I'll talk about
Chris Paul and the signs. I'm a proponent of that deal. You would
need to see what the end look, do you have to go like that's
no, no, no, let's do it. Let's talk about it.
I'm ready. This is absolutely fantastic. Now it's good. It's good radio
if you want. I think the idea of Chris Paul and Phoenix makes too
much sense because and I was going to save this when we were talking about
Ricky Rubio later on. I do feel like he's part of the problem of
needing to like alleviate the the pressure on Devin Booker, like where it certainly
helps to have him on the floor with Devin Booker, but the Sun's offense
was in the twenty second percentile when he played without Devin Booker, And yes,
that could be an indictment on the rest of their roster, but it's
also kind of an indictment on how he plays because he's not that traditional scoring
threat, and Chris paul with or without Devin Booker is just a better fit.
I think what I have again, they haven't even you know, we'll
have to see in that story what the terms of the package art. I
assume it's some form of Ubrey and Rubio, like if they're given and then
stuff but not great stuff. And if it's other stuff, then that's where
it's a problem because and this is what I'm getting at. What I do
think you have to bring yourself to consider is that your whatever you're giving up
is for two years of Chris Paula and you could even look at it as
one because then he'll have leverage going to last year of his deal with the
player option if it really goes badly. And so that's why you don't you
know, mcael Bridge's name should not come and maybe I over value kill Bridges,
but his name shouldn't got in like fifty miles of this. Of this,
I would say even giving up cam Johnson would be a no for me.
It's also curious for you land On that. I absolutely agree. I
think it's essentially comes down to the trade that makes sense. I think moneywise,
is a combination of Ricky Rubio and Kelly Ubrey. And then beyond that,
I'm afraid to give up anything else, and I think for good reason.
I think one these guys. First of all, it's difficult to come
up with trades for the Phoenix Suns because those are the only two guys that
have sort of medium sized contracts Ricky Rubio at seventeen million and Kelly Ubre at
fifteen million. Beyond that, the only large contract is Devin Booker. He's
not going anywhere. So to come up with the trade, you automatically include
those two guys. Now you can look at the okaycy Thunder and say,
well, why would they want either? And fair because it's a difficult to
understand what they're even going to try to do next year. But I think
they could easily flip Kelly Ubrey into some draft assets if that's what they want
to do. And if you look at the other teams that are potentially going
to bid for Chris Paul, I mean, what are they going to give
up? I think it's a it's a relatively good offer for what it is.
And if you have to, if you have to include that tenth pick
you can and should, but you try and get maybe, you know,
the okaycy Thunder have a lot of picks. Maybe you try and get the
twenty fifth pick back or something like that, so you still have one swing.
Maybe you get Desmond Baine or somebody like that in the draft to help
a little bit. What's tough is that essentially it's still those two contrasts combined
still don't make up what Chris Paul fakes, and that means that you're eliminating
essentially all of your flexibility in free agency. But to me, that's okay.
You know, I look at Chris Paul and what he did with the
Okasey Thunder, and I see a essentially a top ten level player in the
NBA last season. And maybe you can dispute that, but I think the
types of guys that show up on a team and then automatically make them a
playoff team, those are usually top ten players. It's it's difficult to really
figure that out. And if you add that to the Suns, I don't
know. To me, how they play in the regular season with Chris Paul
is interesting because does he play every game? Can he stay healthy? All
of that? But if they make the playoffs and then you have a lineup
of Chris Paul, Devin Booker, McHale Bridges, Cam Johnson, and DeAndre
Eton on the floor for the majority of that game. I really like that
a lot, Like That's just something I look at, like, how do
you guard? How do you guard that? That's gonna be really difficult,
verging on impossible. And I'd agree with everything you'd say, And I might
even have a larger concern about the reason you acquire pauls to make it so
you get into the playoffs, but he becomes most important in the playoffs,
and the Thunder as top heavy as they were, like they were in part
because they were these crunch time superheroes, like they were able to fairly limit
his minutes where it didn't feel like he was overstrained. And even look,
I don't even think you could count on that good of health from Chris Paul
like they got this past year. And so that's where I would say that
you want to figure out a way to complete this deal so that you're not
really punting on what free agent flexibility you have. You know, maybe it's
you know, if you time it right, like and you're giving up the
tenth pick and you move him as an actual salary, that plus Ubre and
Rubio gets it done, and it almost feels that, I don't know,
it blows my mind that I'm saying is I would do that deal from Phoenix,
but including the number ten pick feels like a slight overpay. And then
if you remove it, it's like, well then yes, Ubre Junior is
good and Rubio those are good players, but they don't fit anything the Thunder
or trying to do long term. And so what makes me wonder, like
is there a third team then involved in this? Or if you are giving
up the ten the pick and you already like alluded to this is what are
you else are you going to get back? As you mentioned, they do
have the twenty fifth pick. I think that one was from from Denver if
I'm not mistaken, So like, I guess that would make it fine for
you if they also have that stock of like all these other draft picks.
But I don't know that they're so high if you're if you're gonna get the
number ten pick in this class unless you just think that someone there is the
one, I don't know why you're giving up picks for many future drafts in
this deal. So I think the ten pick plus those two guys is like
my absolute limit to the point where like I still think it's too much and
you have to get some some other type of conversation aside from Chris Paul.
Back in return, he was, look, I think I did a player
ranking leading into the bubble, and I think I might have had him.
He was definitely the top fifteen, and he made second team All MBA this
year or so. He's really good. But like two years and eighty five
point six million for someone who is thirty four, like that's a lot of
money, and even if you guarantee health, he's also thirty five, so
I was I was making him younger. You're welcome, Chris Paul. Yes,
you're like just that two year window. It's hard for me to grapple
with a little bit too. I think it's absolutely worth it, but like,
if you're the Suns, I do think aside from just the cost of
Chris Paul, which I'll spend billionaires moneies all day, like, that's not
gonna the fact if if they get him for like to where they're not really
giving up anything more much more than Rubio or Ubrey, Like if they're working
this out without the tenth pick and Milwaukee isn't involved, like, shame on,
shame on the Bucks. Kind of there's it's really for me just the
finiteness of it all to where you have to just consider the opportunity cost long
term of bringing it in. I think it outweighs the benefits will far outweigh
it. But I'm very interested to see what the framework of this deal is
and whether there's a third team or if this is just okay se saying,
you know, we're going to save a bunch of money even if they don't
get the tenth pick, And as you mentioned, they can probably reroute Kelly
Ubridge junior somewhere. Maybe that's a move you make mid season when he's had
a chance to sort of build up his value coming off that surgery, right,
and then you take something from the Knicks at that point. Yeah,
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December thirty. First, I do want to make I want to make the
case for why this could be a good move short term and long term,
because I think a lot of people will look at this immediately and think this
is a short term move. The Suns are selling what are they doing?
This is a disaster one if they can do it for just Rubio and Ubre
or some combination and even include the tenth pick. Now, I'm not,
as we talked about, I'm not fully comfortable if we go that far,
But say they do it for Rubio and Ubre. Looking back at when James
Jones took over the Phoenix Suns and consistently even before that, to me,
the number one issue with the Phoenix Suns was culture and you have to fix
the culture. Now. Winning helps some, consistency helps some as well.
Monty Williams was the fifth coach for Devin Booker in the five years that Devin
Booker was on the Phoenix Suns. Yeah. In fact, this coming season
will be the first time that he starts a new season with the same code
that he had at the beginning of the previous season, first time in Devin
Booker's NBA career. Monty Williams helps a lot with that culture. Winning a
few extra games helps a lot with that culture. But if you can bring
a team of James Jones, Monty Williams, and Chris Paul all working together,
I think that has a pretty good impact on the young guys. Now.
Now, it could be argued, is this the type of thing that
can help DeAndre Aden or the pressure of praying with Chris Paul going to hurt?
In my opinion, it only helps. I've seen the clips of Chris
Paul yelling at DeAndre Jordan under the rim, and I understand what that's going
to look like when he does it to DeAndre Ayton. But I still think
it would help overall. The other part is forty million dollars of cap space
coming off the books if the Suns make the playoffs two years in a row.
Right, it's a two year deal, and then forty million dollars comes
off the books in the same year that. You have a few guys that
can be signed on the Phoenix Suns named Michael Bridges and DeAndre Ayton, and
you can sign those guys over the cap because you have their bird rights.
It's not the worst scenario to have a lot of cap space after two years
of making the playoffs with this team, assuming they do, and I think
they would. We talked about it early in this podcast. Coincidentally, what's
a route to getting to the sixth seed or above? This is it?
You know, this is probably the main one. I think that that you
can talk about and now it looks like there's some credence behind it. So
if you can make the playoffs, if you have some good culture building with
Chris Paul, with Monty Williams, who are friends. You know, these
are guys who it's not it wouldn't be the first time that Monty Williams is
coaching Chris Paul and and and you know there's a there's a lot to sell
with this that makes sense. And here's the thing. It all falls apart
if Chris Paul has a season ending injury a few weeks into the season.
And I think that's a fair thing to bring up that that that makes it
a little bit scary. But you know, I think there's a case to
be made that it's good short term and it still can be good long term
as long as you don't give up guys like Cameron Johnson, mcil Bridges,
Devin Booker, DeAndre and you have those four guys. It's not the worst
snare you And look that the short term window of it is actually beneficial depending
on what you give up, because even if it ends up being a mistake,
like then the mistake is is short lived because all of a sudden there's
only one year left on his deal. And so and look, maybe this
isn't matter, like just the sheer breath of Chris Paul salary. Like is
this an instance where this is you know, tie Jerome and then they're you
know, picking up Campaign's team option and sending him out or I think check
Theaalo as a team option like those two, like two of those contracts plus
Rubio plus Kelly everybody like that gets you to the money. And so then
if people are worried about the flexibility they're giving up in twenty twenty one,
I get it, but like you know, first of all, twenty twenty
one might end up sucking free agency wise because Paul George and Qui Lander chose
to be with the Clippers. Why would they leave Why would Lebron leave LA
when a D is there and he can pass the torch? So like and
as Janna is going to Phoenix, like I just no, And so is
is going to a Phoenix team that had to fight for the eighth seed,
right, That's that's kind of a way to look at it. And no,
I completely agree, Jannie is going to go to a premier franchise if
he leaves and maybe he stays, maybe they're good enough that he stays,
And yeah, I don't I don't think that's it either. The best case
for the Suns to make a case to a free agent is being good.
That's not a bad thing. Be good, right, And even I totally
forgot like Komiskey's team options just floating there, So it's like that you just
pick up and you are including him in that deal, so like there are
ways to get there. I like that trade even more if they're not giving
up ten I don't know that I'll despise the deal, but it'll be a
blatant overpay if Cam Johnson is in there. To me, yeah, it's
tough for me. If you give up multiple wings, it's like, why
bring Chris. Like the advantage of having Chris Paul on this team is that
you could surround him by good wings immediately, and it's a team that makes
sense for Chris Paul. If you start giving those guys up, you know,
the team starts to make less sense for Chris Paul. Yeah, and
again that would be just straight like capitally for okay se which I don't necessarily
think is out of a question because I'm not mistaken they finished in the tax
this past year, and well, I know, having money to spend this
summer is an advantage in the market, but like just look at the market.
And then also I've actually been surprised, and I'd mentioned this in the
outline at how people are just penciling in the Suns as a cap space team
when they would have to get rid of bains and Dario Sarich essentially or you
know move you know, we're talking about Ruby Ruber's salary, Like there has
to be collateral damage to them having cap space that's meaningful, and then that
cap space has to turn in to someone And so would I rather give up
what it seems like this deal will be for Chris Paul than get rid of
Baines and Saris then someone else to maybe try and sign van Fleet for three
or four years. Yes, I would prefer Chris Paul there. Even looking
at other trade options, I do think Drew Holiday would be a great fit
for this roster, but the permutations of that deal are just difficult to make,
not just in terms of matching salary, but what's the compensation because with
him approaching free agency next year, you can make the argument that well,
including Cam Johnson or Mikhail Bridges, and that would be an overpay as well.
And so if you're getting Chris All without giving up those two guys,
and then again maybe you're keeping the teen pick or you're at least still staying
in the first round if you get another selection back like that ends up being
a big deal for the Suns too. Yeah, absolutely, it's it's a
fascinating I don't know, I wonder how it's gonna be viewed by because I
think a lot of people, like Suns fans, this is kind of what
I'm talking about with Homerism a little bit. Some Suns fans say, you
can't trade Kelly you Bray for Chris Paul And I imagine you, as a
non Suns fan, just don't you think that's just outright insane when you hear
that, or did you just get it for the salary? I don't get
it, like the salaries of a different Like Kelly O. Brid Jr.
Is a good play finisher, but he's not going a table set for everyone
else. And I think like there's just a misconception about his defensive reputation where
he's either just considered absolutely terrible or people think that he's like really a defensive
asset and he's like kind of not like for his build, I feel like
he should be able to do things across more positions than he actually does.
And so with him coming up on agency next year himself, yes he'll be
appreciably cheaper, but I just don't view losing him as this stark opportunity cost,
especially because of how that lineup fired with Cam Johnson at the four in
the bubble. And it's also I was gonna mention this four wild that I'm
talking about Cam Johnson in these terms after clowning the Suns for taking him last
year in the draft so high. I mean, I mean, that's one
of the few times where a GM can be like I told, I told
you so, I mean, because I think I said it recently. I
will never forget hearing Cam Johnson's name and just like what, everyone was shocked.
And I think to James Jones's credit too, there's no leaks in that
front office. People have no idea what's coming down before it comes down.
Nobody knew about the Daria Starts trade, Nobody knew about Cam Johnson. This
was not reported, and even Ricky Rubio was something that nobody really knew about
before it happened. There was no rumors about it that were tweeted by orders.
It's all something that caught everyone by surprise. And in a sense,
you know, maybe that's what makes this report about Chris Paul a little weird.
Maybe you could believe it, maybe you don't. Maybe it matters on
how you feel about how it would look whether or not you choose to believe
it. But you know, I think it's interesting that that happened. But
I think Kim Johnson, Now you look at Kim Johnson next to Chris Paul
and you go, wow, that was a great pig next to Chris Paul.
It makes it a lot of sense. I guess it'll be tough to
go through these questions, like, you know, do we view them in
the context of Chris Paul, But the back to the Devin Booker stuff,
and if Chris Paul comes up again, we will definitely talk about him.
So just basically the question I'd asked is like, what's been most impressive about
Devin Booker's rise or most undercovered about it? Where maybe there's still a misconception
about how he's playing. Yeah. So I think one of the big things
is his playmaking, because I think a lot of a lot of people,
well, first of all, Devin Booker, when he came into the league,
he was comped as like a play Thompson type player, and he's just
not like, he's really not that at all. I think he uses ball
screens a lot more. He's a little bit more of a ball handlers,
way more of a ball handler, yeah, yeah, way more. Exactly.
He's not much of a three point shooter. He can't shoot three pointers,
but he really kills me from mid range. And he's actually a really
great finisher. Uh. He had a higher finishing percentage than Lebron James.
Not the same level of toughness on finishes, but I think it is a
stat I think that you look at and say, wow, I didn't realize
he was that good at that. And I think just as shot creation,
it's been incredible. But in the last two seasons alone, the improvement in
the types of passes that he can now make, I think has been really
impressive. Skip passes, you know, across the floor to shooters. He
can do it with his right and he can do it with his left he
can do it at full speed. Uh, and you know, it's it's
really impressive to see the growth in him for playmaking, and you know,
I think that's that's one of the things that I think one of the reasons
people don't realize it is the Suns have been really bad at shooting. So
when you're really bad at shooting, you might make a really great pass and
then it doesn't turn into an assist. Then if you look at the row
box score, you're not going to pick up on the types of passes he's
making. You really have to watch it to figure it out. And I
think that's been a big thing. And I think when you compare Devin Booker
to a lot of other shooting guards in the league, that's one of the
things I think that sets him apart from a lot of them is that he's
a little bit more of a playmaker. And part of that is because he's
you know, six five six six, he's big, so he can make
those passes. And you know, I think that's something that's been a little
bit overlooked, especially because like the type of things that had to happen in
order for him to develop under five different coaches is pretty remarkable, and he
still did which is pretty amazing. So the passing is something I think that
gets overlooked, and I even when people talk about it, there's still the
element of is he a good asser or is he somehow stat padding? And
I think when you watch him like no is I don't know that he's making
like he's not making these Ben Simmons like reads. But I think the biggest
compliment I could give him from again the games of the Suns that I'm helicoptering
in to watch the shots that he's creating would not exist if it's someone else
with the ball in his hand. I mean someone else who's you know,
a lesser player, anyone on the Sun's roster for the most part, just
like even looking at like him being able to back down smaller guards or even
rings in the post to the point where like teams are going to drift so
far towards him that yeah, you know what, he can fling just the
one handed like kick out, and his teammates can will be wide open like
that stuff really matters, And so it feels like that, and then even
there's still the misconception that like maybe he's like not all that efficient, and
I feel like part of that is because people expect him to take more threes,
but he was just look, this is just a fact. Statistically,
he was just one of the most efficient, high volume scorers in the league.
Ye yep, what he did as far as scoring and true shooting,
and it just hasn't really been done by a lot of players. And if
you look at the list of players who have at least met those statistical criteria,
you're going to see a lot of names that you recognize, Kevin Durant,
Steph Curry, those types of names as far as efficiency, and he
just he just is. And I think what's interesting is Clay Thompson is sort
of the prototype of like a modern NBA player, and you know, to
comp Devin Booker like that, he's so old school with how he does play,
Like he likes that mid post. He likes the mid range. He'll
get you in the post and back you up all the way under the rim.
He's got the fakes, he's got the moves. It's very Kobe like.
I mean, you know a lot of people have been compared to Kobe,
but offensively, I think Devin Booker is actually pretty close as far as
the bag, like the skill set, He's got a lot of those moves,
and it's probably because he grew up loving Kobe Bryant, so he's watched
a lot of it and tried to emulate it. What does the next frontier
look like for Devin Booker if he's going to be more or than I'll say,
like on the peripherals of the all MBA discussion, like what separates him
from being that all MBA formality right now? Well, here's that Devin Booker
was number one in points per touch in the NBA this last season, so
as far as the amount of time he touched the ball, he scored the
most and points per touch, which I think is fairly interesting for a lot
of reasons. I think part of that is because he finally had a point
guard that can help set him up. But I do think that he needs
to be able to handle the ball more. We call it point book a
lot of times as Suns fans. This is something that's been hotly disputed,
but I think the increase in his ability to make the passes that he makes,
the ability to score from anywhere on the floor has now I think allowed
him to transition to more of just the primary guy with the ball in his
hands a lot. I think the Bubble was a great example because pre Bubble,
Ricky Rubio and him were sort of sharing a lot of the playmaking duties
throughout the game. In the Bubble, Rickey Rubio I think averaged something like
twenty seven minutes a game. It wasn't a lot, and as the games
came down to the wire, it was just Devin Booker DeAndre and pick and
roll over and over and over again, or Devin Booker in the post or
Devin Booker in the midpost. And I think that is more of the future
for him. It's just being able to carry the offensive loan even more,
which is kind of funny to think about, Like this is a guy who
scored seventy points at twenty years old, a guy who was seeing double teams
before he could even drink a beer because he was the only scoring option on
the Phoenix Suns. But I think those types of things, as ugly as
they were to watch for part of the history, did properly prepare him for
what he's looking at now. And if he ever does make the playoffs,
he's already seen a lot of those types of defenses that they're going to throw
at him because he was the only guy who can score for a long time.
So I think just increasing that offensive load a little bit could help a
lot. But you know, if you look at his stats from this year,
just raw stats points in his sists and last year, they're exactly the
same, essentially, the numbers are the same, but the offensive efficiency went
up a little bit too, and that helps every season. If he can
increase his efficiency, that makes a massive difference. And I think for him,
something as simple as getting really good at the pull up three pointer would
make a huge difference because that's really the only thing in his game that he's
not elite at as far as scoring. And if he ever gets that,
good luck trying to guard him. And it's interesting that you talk about him
shouldering maybe more of the offensive burden when before this podcast is done, they
might have Chris Paul the proud. Yeah, that's a good point. But
I think even still, uh, you know, like we talked about it,
uh, you know with Ricky Ruby on Devin Booker on the floor together,
good, Devin Booker off the floor, Ricky Ruby on the floor not
good. It didn't go very well. Uh, it was. It was
pretty bad. It's something like a ninety seven offensive rating or something like that.
It was bad. Yeah, it was. It was pretty bad.
And look, that's like that's a huge upgrade in itself because you're taking we're
assuming the major cost will be Kelly Bridge Junior and Rubio, and you're taking
two players who can't run the offense without Booker or even run the offenses like
the two of them without Booker, and you're replacing them with someone who can
like he was well Booker was to the Suns. He was for the thunder
last year where their offense fell off a cliff if they were playing with Shay
and Dennis Shrewder without him on the floor. It's like, that's just even
like that's where I do think it's I could understand people if they're concerned about
the Chris Paul move in the vein of well, it's still the West,
like they could still miss the playoffs, and they're absolutely right, But that's
such a stark upgrade in the area of biggest need for the Suns that I
would argue they would have like they would probably be if I penciled in it
feels like there's gonna end up being seven Western Conference teams that are just formalities,
and I feel like with CP three, the Suns do become one of
them, right without diving like too deep into it, but like you know,
at the top of my head, like Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets,
I'd probably throw the Mavericks in there. Let's just the Rockets, don't blow
it up. And if you want to say the Warriors are back back,
that's six. I don't know that I would pick any of the other teams.
The Thunder would clearly be sellers. There's the Jazz, of course,
but the Suns are not even the Jazz. It's interesting. The weight is
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online sports book experts. Again, everything's going back to Chris Paul now.
But I have the same question for DeAndre Ayton, where he he was a
lot better during his sophomore campaign and like the fact that he finished or was
able to put together such a stellar season after like that suspension, like because
people are absolutely dragging him at the time, it was it was great.
And look, his offense has really always intrigued me. I love even if
they're not shooters, guys who can get like twenty points and like you don't
necessarily even notice they have twenty points, because yeah, there are possessions where
they it can like revolve around him. And like the post ups like that
he does years, like they're not the prettiest, but like it feels like
he scores so much within the flow of things and so he's enjoyable to watch
there and then just the for me, like the defense of switching for him
felt like almost night and day between unless I missed something towards the end of
his rookie campaign, like to have that utility from him on defense, Like
I'm just kind of wondering, like, what is all of a sudden his
ceiling now after watching him in year two. Yeah, it's it's fascinating.
Oh, I'm sorry, my mic messed up a little there. It's fascinating
to why DeAndre etan because I think he'll always be cursed with people assuming he's
the wrong pick. And I think for a lot of people that just becomes
blinders. Uh, they're unable to recognize what he's good at. And I
think you need to celebrate that. I think for centers, like a lot
of people talk about the way the game is changing, and I think for
centers, as far as defense goes, what you need is mobility. That's
what you need. And he is a very very mobile, big man for
his size. And I think if you if you, if you combine basically
a huge man who's very mobile with the ability to be coached, which is
something that people commonly say about DeAndre eight and he's very coachable, and then
you can have something like what he looked like last year. Uh, you
know it's it's hard and like we're filtering everything through the Chris Paul news right
now, But you know, you look at like what Chris Paul could do
for DeAndre eight, and I think there's there's a couple of things that could
happen there that could make a massive difference. He's going to get better every
year, I think, no matter what, because he just seems like a
guy he started basketball late. He's a massive guy, and he's very coachable,
and I think he'll get better every year defensively and offensively. But I
think there is something about like these guys that are sort of legends about when
they're on your team. I commonly talk about like JaVale McGee when he's with
the Warriors or with the Lebron compared to JaVale McGee when he's not. These
guys step up their game a little bit when they're surrounded by a legend because
they have the weight of their sort of legacy on their backs. And I
wonder if that type of thing could be really good for a player like DeAndre
a And not to mention just a guy who's been setting up big men for
his entire career and he's possibly one of the best ever at it, but
I think with DeAndre a and to me, I'm not I don't want him
shooting a lot of midrain shots, Like if we're going to talk about what
he needs to get better at three pointers is fine, But ultimately I'm really
okay with him being sort of Clint Capella plus on offense. As long as
the defense continues to better simplify his role, that's okay with me. Going
forward, maybe you work some sets into his posting up, maybe he posts
up on switches a little bit more, But to me, the more and
more you forced the ball to him when you have a guy like Devin Booker
on your team, that's not always great. I'm okay with him just being
a rim runner and maybe the best at it in the NBA at some point
in his career. Just simplify it a little bit and focus on defense.
Make him the best defender that he can be. And with his size,
with his mobility, you know, and his length and his ability to jump
very high, he could be a really good defender the things. So i'd
actually just written something about this. You mentioned about how people have the blinders
on that he was the wrong pick, and I think the best way you
might even be famous, like relative to what the number one pick is supposed
to represent. Like DeAndre Ayton was not the wrong pick, Like if you
in a vacuum, if Deandre's the number one pick, like that's a good
selection. It's because Luka Done was in that draft. And that's not just
a footnote. But like I think it's what we can't like forget, like
how good he like the look I'm gonna say, the sun's like blue?
That like that was this wasn't you know people were on the fringes about don
Chech but he was in the number one conversation and it wasn't you know they
could argue like the Kings did. They didn't want to take the ball out
of Booker's hands. It's not a report that I saw, but yeah,
don Chech would have been better. But like Aighton is still he's at that
all star like he feels like he'll have that All star apacks and like I
do think if there is a chance for him to expand his range. And
one of my questions was is this too reductive to say that maybe he should
needs to test out his three more. But if you have someone that can
just hit, like picking pops more consistently, particularly if Chris Paul is going
to be on your team, Like we're not just talking about like an All
Star, but like maybe he's just one of going to become one of the
elite bigs in the league. Yeah, I don't think it's entirely reductive to
say he needs to shoot more threes, as long as that's sort of paired
with to replace them long twos, you know, because that's still built into
him. And this is sort of a problem with a lot of big men
when they they're coming up. You know, there's still a lot of colleges
that want him to shoot that eighteen nineteen footer. But yeah, if he
if he takes those shots and moves those behind the line, I mean there's
like he probably shot like forty three percent from mid ranger or forty two percent,
maybe even lower, Like it's not difficult to get a three point percentage.
That makes that three pointer a more valuable shot than that you know,
he shoots thirty percent, it's a better shot. So I do think he
needs to shoot more at the very least, you have to figure out if
he can. Because it's flat, it looks a little weird, but it
does go in, and there was shots in the bubble that went in.
I think he's still end in the season under thirty percent or something like that.
He started launching a little more towards the end of the season. But
you got to figure out if he can do it, because I think,
like you said, that makes that makes a big difference if he's capable of
it. And he did it in college slightly shorter three point line, but
he shot something like thirty six thirty seven percent, So it's it seems like
something that he should be capable of doing, and I think you have to
try because if he if you figure out that he can't, you can,
you can cut it out. But if he can, I think it's going
to make a massive different. It's just like you said, and look and
then Chris Paul lends of things. It becomes less pivotal for him to do
that because now visun it's so much easier to field lineups where there's just four
shooters around DeAndre Aten when when you're replacing Ubre and Rubio with Paul. As
we constantly break away from this, I saw that your podcast partner Sam Cooper,
I don't know if you saw it. Just tweeted Mike is recording a
pod right now, by the way, which is hilarious because like three weeks
ago, he was the only one still gunning hard for this idea. He
can't even relish the moment. Little little does he know you're able to relish
the moment. I'm relishing it now, and now all these people will have
to actually come to this to listen to my life reaction. And I think
you're right at what happened. What happened, And I'm just going to give
the little story about this because it's relevant now. A few maybe a month
ago or so, I was just sort of looking at all of the reports
about the Phoenix Suns, and I was looking at the way that Chris Paul
sort of ended his run in the bubble, and he thinked, okay,
see and then just everything but name his next team that video. But you
know, you know who he did name Monty Williams. Completely out of the
blue. He brought up Monty Williams. And then there's this report by a
a Arizona sports radio guy named John Gambadoor we call him the Godfather on our
podcast. He said that this Phoenix Suns told Devin Booker that the Suns were
going to make a splash this offseason. Now that somehow went a little bit
under the radar, because to me, that's huge because that frames the entire
offseason as far as what the Suns are going to try to do, because
I think the entirety of what you should do when you have a superstar on
your team is try to make him happy, to keep him as long as
possible. So I looked at all of the tea leaves, if you will,
and I said, Oh, it's got to be It's gonna be Chris
Paul. Guys like, it's so obvious that it's going to be Chris Paul.
And of course everyone hated it at the time, but you know how
fans are. The closer and closer you get to something being a reality,
the more and more they talk theirselves into it. So I think, I
think that's that's going to change a little bit. But I took a little
bit of heat for saying that I think it's going to be Chris Paul about
a month ago, But now I can now I can brag about it.
I guess I never would have predicted it, even as they sort of make
made the segue was it was like sort of trendy or like an anomaly to
say, like, you know, so Suns would be a great destination for
Chris Paul. But then it was almost over talked about. I never would
have ventured into the realm of Chris Paul's going to the Suns like you did,
So kudos to you because still not official, but look for Winhurst to
allow it to be aggregated, like that's a big deal, right, Yeah,
He's giving writers like you something to write about tomorrow. So this is
my most pressing pressing question of the podcast. What's the over under on the
number of all NBA teams with cal Bridges is going to make? I mean,
how many seasons do you think he'll play? Thirty? Like around there
got safe to say that he's my favorite player on the Phoenix Suns. And
you know how it is with with NBA hipsters or whatever, like it's never
the best player. It's always like somebody else, right, And for the
Suns Suns fans, that's Michael Bridges, and you know, I love and
you know when he was trending, that was my fault, but he knew
it was, which was even better, right, he follows me. We
don't really interact. He does follow me on Twitter. But yeah, it
was just something that happened. Jackson Frank, people who are NBA Twitter nerds
like us know him, said something about how so many Suns fans are following
him and he's not sure that he can continue to tweet about the Suns.
And I said, it's okay, just tweet Michale Bridges once every few days
and you'll get one hundred or so likes. And then I said, I'll
test it out now, and then I tweeted Michale Bridges and by the end
of the night, I think it was over eleven thousand people tweeted just Michale
Bridges as all the best things that happened. It happened completely by accident,
but I think it's not a coincidence in any way. This was the night
before they played the Philadelphia seventy six ers, who the Suns traded for McHale
Bridges from, and I think it represents the love that Suns fans have for
a guy like Michale Bridges, a dirt worker who never complains and works really
hard and just makes all the smartest plays. And there was a time where
his jump shot looked a little broke. It looks a lot better now and
that makes it even easier to praise a guy like him. But I think
he'll I think he has a chance to be one of the best defenders in
the league as early as next season. I'd be with you there. And
the thing that I'm like more curious about with him, and look, I
first hand experience of how much the Suns fans care about Michael Bridges. Like
I try to remain by following like writers and bloggers and podcasters who cover every
team, I try to remain in tune with like what the thoughts are of
each base. But I ranked Michael Bridges as the most underrated player in the
NBA this past season, and like Suns fans were angry. Some of them
like, no, he's not underrated, like we really appreciate him. And
I was like, well, I'm not saying that you guys don't appreciate him.
I'm just thinking to get talked about enough. But it was really funny,
that was my experience with knowing how much Suns. I got a kick
out of that one because it's like, well, this was a compliment,
So I don't know what there's to be angry about. But the question for
me with him is on offense because as of right now, you know his
three point efficiency like upticked this year. And if you're gonna be an elite
three in D guy, because when we talk about three D players, like
normally they're non elite in both areas, but he's already elite on defense,
and if he's going to be an above average shooter, that's huge. But
unlike some of these other guys, there's more of him and it's not even
to me just the cutting. It's like when he's passing on the move,
like he makes really good decisions on drives. I think when I was writing
about this, he's like one of the lowest turnover rates for anyone on the
who used his volume of drives. And so do you see him getting to
the point where he's more than a three in D player in a sustainable manner?
Because I think the thing with him is that like on offense, he
can go from like zero to one hundred to fifty to twenty five to eighty,
Like it's just there's like these wide fluctuations from him. Yeah, I'd
expect that more a little bit going forward. As far as I'm not,
I'm not fully bought into. I don't see him as someone who's going to
create his own shot regularly right now. But I don't want to diminish the
value of the type of player he is. And I know you know,
but just for the people listening, he doesn't have to right now in order
to be a really valuable piece on the team. He's a guy who entered
the starting lineup and will likely never leave us as long as he's on the
Phoenix Suns because of the type of value he brings defensively, but I think
offensively, as you talked about, he doesn't make a lot of mistakes just
period. He doesn't turn the ball over a lot, he doesn't shoot shots
that he shouldn't shoot. He can move the ball really quickly. The Sun's
run out offense that they call point five, and the idea around point five
is that you make a decision within half a second of touching the ball.
He perfectly and seamlessly works into that's actually relatively similar to Villanova, other than
the fact that the Sun's run a little bit more than Villanova did, so
it was relatively seamless for him. But I do think his shot will get
better and that will make a massive difference. And the other thing that happened
is this last season, and I think Ricky Rubio had a lot to do
with this. He became one of the best cutters in the NBA, and
I think that will continue, whether it be with Ricky Rubio or Chris Paul
next season. Either way, when he cuts, he's going to get the
ball if it's the smart cut, because those guys can make passes from any
angle, and you know, to be able to do that, I think
matters a lot for him. I think he has to get stronger offensively and
defensively. Defensively, obviously we know what that means. It means he can
guard essentially every position besides the center because of his length, and maybe even
some centers in the NBA at this point. But also I think offensively,
if he starts to get stronger, I think his finishing will get better.
His arms are so long, like this seven foot one wingspan on a guy
who's basically six foot seven six ft eight ish, and I think that finishing
will get better over time, you know, and and he'll find he'll find
easy buckets. I think that's gonna be a lot of it. That's that's
getting open shots from three transition and then easy cuts. As far as starting
like he's turning into Kauai, like if you will, it's going to take
a lot to get there, a few seasons at least before we even know
if that's anything close to that is even possible right now, I wouldn't bet
on it, which makes his value I think really interesting going forward whenever he
does become a free agent. Not that we need to talk about that now,
but guys like that I think are interesting as far as how they're valued
in free agency. Well, there's like I think, even his extension eligibility
after next year, it's super interesting because like, what do you pay those
guys to keep them off the open market? And the Raptors are going to
go through a different player, yes, but they're gonna go through with Oganna
Nobi. This is exactly who I was thinking about. I'm fascinated by his
value. I can't wait to see what happens for him. An update to
the Chris Paul reporting. Because they Nurse did release the article, it doesn't
really release any terms of the package, but it does emphasize the Suns could
have up to twenty million in cap space, and so I have them in
my sheet a hair under sixteen. If they renounce Baines, the Kline Commitsky's
option, renounced Sarich, and then they're getting they're still keeping like you have
there's like weird non guaranteed salaries there. You have Javonne Carter's small hold,
and so I have those. Yeah, So I wouldn't be a fan of
them going the cap space route for Chris Paul just because now you're losing you
know, Stars and Baines or losses there if you have to renounce them,
and then like you still like Rubio alone doesn't get you there, nor does
Ubre, so you still have to call it together more money, and so
it's almost costing you more players to get Chris Paul. Even though I guess
in that scenario, I would assume there's a higher chance if you're giving more
immediate relief to the thunder, that you're keeping the number ten pick. Yeah,
And I'll be honest, no matter how I look at it, it
always comes back to Rubio and Ubre, combination of those two guys. That's
that's basically what it comes down to. Because what I would like to do
is find a way to keep Ubre in that scenario, and it becomes really,
really difficult. You know, there's there's some other ways to do it.
If you want to give up like Cam Johnson, mcal Bridges untouchable.
Obviously we're not even going to talk about that. But I don't like that
either. I'd rather keep mcale Bridges and Cam Johnson. I mean, it's
a great advantage to have, like funny with Cam Johnson, by the way,
picked Everyone laughed when he was picked. But also now the Sons have
a guy who's twenty four years old at the beginning of his rookie deal.
He's gonna be paid like a rookie until he's twenty eight. That's not such
a bad thing for a team like the Suns, who are trying to put
together the best team possible. He's gonna be relatively good throughout his rookie deal,
and that's not something that you find that often. So you gotta keep
a guy like that. So, you know, no matter how I looked
at it, no matter how what I tried and talked to some guys that
I know that are relatively experts on the cap, it always comes back into
trading those two guys somehow. So Yeah, because even if you go in
the cap space round like it's going to be somewhere you need to if you're
including Rubio like it might. Let's say they can get to twenty million cap
room, that's still gonna leave you twenty one million short of Paul. You
need to cobble together another four to five million in money after Rubio to keep
ubright. And like, just like you said, yeah, okay, it's
cool like Cam Johnson mckel bridges can plug into that, but those are the
only salaries that can plug into that, and those are players that you want
to give up here. Yep, exactly x up on my list. This
is this is I'm loving the Chris Paul tangents that I was just absolutely not
not expecting. Who's the one who's more uh Chris Paul news obviously changes this,
but who's more important to this team's outlook between Rubio, Cam Johnson and
Kelly Ubrad Jr. Well, it's funny if we're just going to take out
anything that we've learned today from this conversation, it's absolutely Ricky Rubio. Uh.
Well, and that's that's to say, only because this team is so
awful without point guards, and we saw that last year and the difference he
makes, and I think he makes scoring easier for a lot of guys.
It's not a coincidence that efficiency went up for a few of the guys on
the Phoenix Sunds, whether it be Kelly ubre Uh, Devin Booker, Mcial
Bridges, or even DeAndre Aton actually was pretty damn efficient in his rookie years.
So that's something we can take out of it. Credit to Igor Kokoshkov,
I think didn't get a lot of credit for how well he used DeAndre
at in on a bad team. Uh, you know, but just sort
of looking at all of it, Ricky Rubio I think makes the biggest difference
on the court right now. And if you like, if you look at
the player impact stats which take him or leave him, I think they are
good for context. Ricky Rubio is the best on the Suns currently and I
think that's not a coincidence. Now if you look at a long term going
forward. You know, Cam Johnson, you said Ricky Rubio, Cam Johnson,
who else did you say? There? Kelly right? Right? Well,
Kelly your bright one year left on his deal and it's going to be
a free agent. So I think that just disqualifies him there. I think
it makes him the most expendable, which is when you when you talk about
how much you know on this podcast, we've sung his praises, but how
much it seems like he Suns Feds are attached to him. It's absolutely wild
to think about it in those terms. Yeah, I mean he's really charismatic,
Like he's a really charismatic guy, and you know what that means.
That means he's used a lot in the marketing for the Phoenix Suns. And
look, I'm not going to deny it that that makes a difference in the
fans eyes. If you constantly see a player that rep that in your mind
now presents the Sun's actually getting better, then of course you can value him
a lot. So I definitely understand why people value him. And look,
Kelly Ubred was good. He was part of that lineup that that Suns fans
love to talk about, Rickey Rubio, Devin Booker, Michale Bridges, Kelly
Ubray, DeAndre and that was the best lineup in the NBA by net rating
five man lineup. So he was good. But I think you're right.
I think you have Michal Bridges, you have Cameron Johnson, and listen too,
if you're trading him, this is not the worst year to try and
be on the market for a forward. You got Jay Crowder, You've got
Jeremy Grant, you got Christian Wood. Like, there's a lot of David
Davis, Burton's Gallinari, there's a lot of guys that you can replace them
with. Maybe not if Chris Paul's and they're that kind of ruins your cap
a little bit. But there's a lot of guys that you can actually replace
Kelly Uber with. That also makes him a little more expendable. So I
think in the short term Rickey Rubio, the longer term Cameron Johnson, and
unfortunately Kelly Ubre. You know what's Kelly Ubre should be better at defense.
So I think this is a big part of what makes it complicated for him.
He actually has longer arms than mcal Bridges. Most people don't realize this
when watching the Suns seven foot two wingspan to mcal Bridge is seven foot one.
But he just has a lot of brain farts. He's not always focused
to the way Michal Bridges is and I think if he was, then that
value would be there because his athleticism is off the charts, but he makes
a lot of mistakes defensively that makes it tough to keep him around. And
he was just like a lot better or if he was noticeably better in like
any one area there's defense. But like if he was, if he would
guarantee he would shoot better from three, or if he was more of a
passer, like you could trust him to run more sets than a half court.
Like if he just did one of those things better, he would seem
a lot less expendable to me. But look, the contract situation is part
of it too. Just you don't know what he's He's not going to cost
the moon, absolutely it's to retain, but he is going to end the
free agency in twenty twenty one one. There will be a ton of cap
space. Something else to bring back to this, Chris paulfin I just considered
with the way the we don't know how the NBA schedule is gonna shake out,
but there's been talk of like more regional play, and so if you're
going to have the Pacific Division teams playing each other like six to eight times,
now, yeah, what in absolute bloodbath that becomes if Chris Paul's on
the Suns, the Warriors, or let's say they stay healthy, the Lakers,
the Clippers, like this is great for the Sacramento Kings's lottery. Odd's
probably if his trade gets pulled off. So I'm that will be I would
wonder if, like, you know, if if Phoenix like throws the first
punch and gets Chris Paul, I would think it's it's not going to put
pressure on the Lakers of the Clippers. But like if you're a Golden State
and you're sitting there and you're looking at Clay Thompson coming back from the ACL
injury, is Draymond Green regressing or did he just not give a crap about
last year? Like you might have to feel at least a little bit more
pressure to go do something this offseason if Chris Paul winds up on a team
in your division at a time where you might have to go through them six
to eight times in addition to the Clippers and the Lakers. Yeah, it's
interesting when you look at the season. This is a common talking point,
right every team in the Western Conference thinks they can make the playoffs next season,
but Also, the twenty twenty one draft is considered one of the better
drafts in a long time. And I imagine halfway through the season some of
these teams will actually pivot into all of a sudden now being okay tanking,
and I imagine the Kings, like you talked about, could be one of
those. But other than that, it's the Lakers, the Clippers, and
the Warriors with the Suns. So I mean, it's gonna be tough,
you know, in that in that division, and it always is. I
mean for the Suns, it always is. There's no coincidence that they always
have one of the toughest strengths of schedules for the entire NBAB. I want
to ask you something, and forgive me for always going on tagants. Here
just from the top of your head, here, Devin Booker next season,
if Chris Paul is on the team, where would you rank Devin Booker as
on like Chris Paul teammates, Like, where would he be? Like,
say you put James Harden number one, maybe you put Blake Griffin number two,
or maybe you can consider Devin Booker next season to be close to that
Blake Griffin level. How good of a teammate. Do you think Devin Booker
would rank as far as Chris Paul teammates. I think he does. He
would automatically become number three for me, Like I'm trying to think of,
like you know, Pyson Chandler was never at that level in New Orleans or
his career. He would have a chance to be number two and depend on
where he peaked, because I do think Blake was like all NBA caliber for
a couple of years beside Chris Paul. I do think his game would be
easier to unlock alongside Chris Paul, even though like Blake, Griffin's more of
the natural play finisher. But after Chris Paul left, it was like,
oh, Blake Griffin can hit off the dribble threes and like run things like
that. It's not going to impact a Booker to that degree. And so
there's a he could depending on if they're together for at least two years,
there's a chance he could establish himself as his second best one. But I'm
trying to think if I'm forgetting anyone otherwise I would assume he's automatically number three.
I don't know who's gonna argue for DeAndre Jordan and Los Angeles even I
think, Yeah, Pete David West, I don't even think is there.
Yeah, No, I agree with that, and I think that's probably where
I would rank him. And depending on Devin Booker's efficiency and level of effort
on defense next season, I think he could match some of Blake Griffin's best
seasons as far as impact on the court. Maybe that's the Homer in me
saying that, but I also just like guys like Devin Booker and their type
of impact a lot. It sure would be nice for Suns fans to be
the team that is able to exercise that Warriors demon somehow for Chris Paul at
some point in the playoffs. But that's gonna be tough. That's just look,
and then it depending on how well Chris Paul would do there and what
happens with the Suns. Like the jokes that could fly at Tillman for Tita's
expense, as I'm here for that that con Oh yeah, absolutely funny enough
the two of the cheapest and worst owners in the NBA somehow still being the
two that actually paid Chris Paul like close to forty or plus forty million dollars
per season kind of funny. That's why we need to see the terms of
this trade to make sure that Robert Sarver isn't trying to get CP three dollars
per dollar next season where he is including all these other glass that hurts to
even consider. Again, all these questions are more loaded following the Paul news.
But we talked about how so many people are writing the Suns in his
his cap space team and to me, they look, I mean, Frank
Kimisky's team options a part of this, but they have three key free agents
to me, in Bain's Sarich and then Javon Carter even throwing Frank Kimisky in
there, and then you want to throw Cameron Baine's team option. They're like,
who among this gaggle of could be free agents do you think are most
likely to leave? Who do you expect to be back? What is the
push and pole balance? They're like, for you, I think Bain's is
most likely gone at this point, and it's not necessarily because I wouldn't want
him on the team. I just think, like we're talking about Dario Sharitz
coming alive in the bubble. One of the reasons Dario Scharitz came alive in
the bubble is he started playing center, and that seemed like a more natural
position for him, backup center. And if you keep Dario Saritch, which
obviously maybe couldn't happen with Chris Paul as well, But if you do,
that's kind of where you want him to be. You actually want him to
play the five as much as possible. He looked really good doing that,
and I think it unlocks his playmaking a little bit more because all of a
sudden, he didn't look slow like you know, when you play power forward,
you look a little slower next to a lot of the power forwards that
are guarding you when you play center. Maybe he has a little more of
a step on those guys, and that unlocks his playmaking a little bit more.
And I think if you if you can keep Dario, you should.
The other guy I love is Javon Carter. Carter, I don't think he's
gonna make a lot like and that helps when you talk about keeping him,
because offensively, he's at best a stand still three point shooter that actually the
best on the suns. He had the best shooting percentage from the three point
line on the suns this last year, boosted by an incredible bubble run where
from beyond the Arc or something like that. Yeah, him and Cameron Payne.
Just Cameron Payne also shot fifty percent from three in the bubble. Another
reason to not overvalue what happened in the bubble, right there, Cameron Payne,
who was not in the NBA before the Bubble, shot fifty percent from
three in a huge role for the Phoenix Sun. Yeah, if he can,
if he can sustain that, just they'll never lose. Actually, we
have a statistical event to point at that says they'll never lose if he can
shoot fifty percent from three. But Javon Carter, he's just the type of
guy that has a role in the NBA, even though he's tiny, because
he's all effort on defense all the time. He gets right into guys,
just right in their jerseys pretty much and shadows them across the court. He's
the guy for the Suns that actually successfully shut down Duncan Robinson in the bubble
when they were getting killed by Duncan Robinson. Everyone tried to guard him,
and finally Monty just said, you know what, Javon, harass him.
Just go out there and harass him, and he did and he did that
well also blocking bam at a Baio at the rim. You know, Javan
Carter tiny, Chris Paul sized if you will, uh, And I love
him and I'd like to keep him, and I actually think it might be
kind of hard. I think, you know, other other teams are going
to look at Javon Carter as a guy too. He's restricted though, so
I think the Suns have a little bit of an advantage there with Javon Carter.
I think there is a chance that none none of those guys are back,
though I do think it really possible. Yeah, I think the guy
that wouldn't want to keep the most is Sharich and I think Cameron Payne too.
It's he's not necessarily a free agent, but it's a team option.
That's why I would think, wouldn't he just be at one point basically two
million, Like, wouldn't you just bring him back? Yeah? Yeah,
I think that's definitely something that you probably do too if he can. But
if you're trying to maximize a cap space, like these guys can't come back,
you know, that's that's really what it comes down to. Yeah,
I would wonder, Yeah, Yeah, You're right, that is a good
point, and I think what helps I think what helps the Suns. I
don't really think it matters. He won't get paid this much, but paid
this much, but no one can offer him more than the non tax players
mL E in year one and so I'm not paying that to keep Javon Carter,
but I guess something to consider. I will be interesting to see his
price point because there's just no cash fling around in this market. And yeah,
I think that helps a lot. I think there he's even a chance
that there's no market for Dario Scharitch, like I tried, Like, if
he wants to start in the NBA, I'm not sure that there's a team
that can do that right now. For Dario. He probably has has to
have a bench roll at this point, and I just wonder. I don't
know if you've you've thought about that, are considered it that one of the
teams I considered was the Spurs. I could see them considering him, but
it's it's difficult to come up with a team that would actually start Dario Scharits.
And you know, maybe he leaves to Europe and doesn't even play on
the NA and makes just makes a lot of money there or maybe he even
accepts his qualifying offer. You know, that's something that could actually happen.
Yeah, because like I don't know that any of the Caps based teams,
and there's gonna be like three or four of them are going to give him
more than the MLI and I would I would assume if you're the signs,
if he's getting mL E money, like that's the offer sheet he signs.
If you say, go out, signed the best offer sheet you can and
it's not a sign in trade and he gets you know, four forty basically
like from them years, Like you matched there? Yeah, I think you
can't think you can and should I you know, we talked about it.
The bench was one of the biggest problems for the Suns, and if you've
found the right role for him, you keep it. I will say one
thing. The Suns had an assistant coach named Darko Riyokovich last season. Darko
Riyokovich was the guy that was credited with the sort of change in Darya sharch
And and finding the right role for him. He wanted him to be a
point center, that's what he called it. He's gone. He's actually on
the Memphis Grizzlies now, so I'm not sure how close those two guys were,
but if they were very close, there's a chance that Dario SARTs.
He's a little more open to leaving now than he was when he was on
the staff. Are there any outside free agent targets that you are both favorite
fits of yours? Would also seem like gettable for Phoenix And I'm not trying
to like dump all over the idea that they could get Jeremy Grant, but
like that seems like the one who's mentioned the most, and for the number
of players that they would have to give up to create the cap space necessary
that it would take to poach him from Denver, and then there's no guarantee.
Denver isn't just like, well, we'll pay him fifteen million dollars anyway.
He's someone that like I've i've kind of like written off for them.
Yeah, he's got such a small cap hold and they have his bird rights,
like they're going to keep him. And also Paul millsapp coming off their
books. It's a nice situation for Denver. They're gonna be good or argued.
It's I almost find it tough because they're just well it's not tough if
they were willing to go into the tax because like if you signed Paul Millsapp
and Jeremy Grant to new deals, like you could be right at the tax
line and that team's not going to go into the tax and so like that's
where it gets tough. But yeah, I mean, like they're they have
the flexibility to pay Jeremy Grant fifteen million dollars a year. And so if
you're the Sun's why are you clearing the space to go after a player?
Which is the predicament that teams will look at. With Sarich, it's like,
why do we want to tie up our cap space for forty eight hours?
And someone who would exactly get yep, And I think that's definitely something
that could happen. I think Christian would, I think is a guy that
a lot of Suns fans have looked at. Davis Berton's. The tough part
is for everyone. I think it's not just guys prognosticators like us that try
and figure out what these guys are going to make. But I think even
for the NBA teams is understanding the market. Like you said, not a
lot of teams that have space. How many of these guys are now just
going to sign for the mL E and how do you plan for that,
and how do you plan for that as a team that didn't even make the
playoffs, Like you have to convince these guys when there's a little bit more
of a market at a mL E level than without that. You know,
the Sons have been rumored to even look at Fred van Vleet, which I
just don't see any way possible of doing that. Not that I would hate
it, I actually would. I think he would be really interesting next to
Devin Booker. I just don't see it possible. But then you look when
you're talking about the backup guard spot, you look at like smaller moves like
DJ Augustine Alec Burke's are guys that could come in and actually be relatively good
bench pieces, but they're just not needle movers. But I will say,
like you fix, they didn't have a backup point guard or a backup shooting
guard that was valuable this last season. Like you fix, you fix those
roles. I think it'll have a bigger difference than most people realize. They're
just not exciting to talk about if they and look Christian Wood could end up
falling in the same category as just Jeremy Grant, because he also kind of
feels like someone that CAPS based teams might go after, like a Charlotte I
think is the one that's been linked to him most. But if if Christian
would is someone who's like Pete Phoenix's interest and they're like kind of looking to
fill that combo big role without spending too much. I think I will now
have successfully said every game should sign him. But Chris Boucher from Toronto someone
who's intrigued me. It's just someone he's proved that he could shoot the three,
not necessarily well for a sustainably long period of time, but he shot
well in the bubble and he's just like a pogo stick when he's protecting the
rim, and he can really like he can give you the four or the
five minutes. And so if you need a cost effective option, we're talking
about another early Burger restricted free agent, so his max isn't too high.
I don't know that you would need to go out how to get him from
Toronto, especially with you know they have siakam Abaca is a free agent who
knows what's gonna happen. With Cassoul there. So, but he would be
just like a I don't think he's gonna People have said like, oh,
could he be the next Christian Wood, And I don't really see like him
being able to put the ball on the floor as well. But he's definitely
gonna be a better defender, I think. And I would assume that he'll
get a third or like, you know, like if he gets more than
five to seven million a year, I would be surprised. Right, that's
excellent. And that's actually somebody that my co host Sam has brought up before,
so that that's a great name, somebody that we haven't talked about in
a while. So I'm gonna steal that from you if you don't mind.
Oh yeah, no, that's fine with me. So I look, I
just I don't even know how Chris Paul then affects what they do in free
agency, because we don't know if they're using cap space or not yet.
I do think there would still be a path regardless of what you do that
if you get Chris Paul, you're still able to use the full mL E
without going into the tacks. The issue becomes though, like who are you,
like, what do you still need because if you're using cap space to
help get Chris Paul, so now it's okay, Aaron Bain's and Dario sarage
or are both just gone, and that changes what you're looking for. Yeah,
backup, big would be the first thing that you look at, and
there's a chance they could keep check Diallo in that case, but that's not
a like that. You prefer him to be your third big in a lot
of ways, and I think that's you know, it's interesting though, because
we haven't done a lot of we haven't talked a lot about filling those rules
because you just assume they have options there. But with Chris Paul in the
mix, it changes things. You've got to look at different things. And
also what does it do for the Sun's appeal and free agency where it's some
of these veteran guys And I think you could look in particular at the big
man spaces where these guys are gonna get squeezed anyway, likes Paul Millsapped like,
Hey, like I'll go play in Phoenix for the minimum, but maybe
maybe I'm going too far like low on his value because he could get clearly
more than that. But you know, for half the not like for five
million a year, I'll go play in Phoenix or I'll play it bi annual
money in Phoenix. And so having Chris Paul I think does give you that
magnetic pull other free agents, so long as he's happy to be there obviously.
Yeah, and I think a combination of Chris Paul and Monty Williams,
who's relatively well liked, I think people understand what they're going to get into
if they signed with the team, you know, I think could make a
difference when looking at that. But the market, like we've talked about,
it's just it feels a little unpredictable in a way that previous years have not.
At least we have a cap number now for sure, we understand that
it's gonna be one o nine, and we can actually sort of make assumptions
based on that. But yeah, if Chris Paul is there, I think
there's a chance they still look at a different starting power forward, Like maybe
you don't want to start Cameron Johnson in his second year in the NBA.
Maybe you do want to try and find someone like Paul Millsap or somebody else
like Jay Crowder. I'm not sure how much he's going to make somebody like
that to slip into that role. That would be excellent, but it's it's
tough to know how to fill out that team without understanding the deal entirely.
And so this was a question I had written down, was would you consider
a deal for CP three? And so I'll just there was another part of
the general question, was there any trade target you have your eye on?
And so I'll say, aside from CP three that you would be interested in
if you're the Sons, assume let's say the CP three deal doesn't go through,
because the fact that we haven't even heard like relative package framework is a
little weird to me. So let's assume a fall. Yeah, well,
I think I think if anything, the CP three rumors, if anything,
it proves that he might be open to it, which I think makes a
big difference with Chris Paul because it's still a Robert Sarver owned team. But
beyond that, to me, we still have I think you kind of have
to go in on a guard regardless because you have an advantage of Wings being
on rookie deals. Kelly, youbra if you keep him on a relatively cheap
deal for what he does and then DeAndrea and on a rookie deal. That
means you have a little extra money to spend on a guard if you want
to do it. Obviously, with Devin Booker making the line share of that
money, Drew Hall, Day, Spencer, Dinwoody, those are guys that
have come up with a lot of regularity. We actually just did a podcast
on that, Yester or just released it yesterday, right, and I listen
to that. I love the Dinwoody idea you guys had, and I feel
like you might have even had it earlier in the year too, like leading
into this trade deadline. I love the Dinwoody fit in Phoenix. Yeah,
I think that's really interesting. One trade we made up on the fly on
that episode was for Shrewder. We're trying to find a way to fill the
backup guard position without getting rid of Kelly Oubrey because I think if you're going
to do the minor moves, like the non Chris Paul moves, then you
should try to keep all three of those wings if you can, just to
see what it's like, because I think the best fit around Devin Booker and
DeAndre in our switchable wings like that. So if you can't keep them you
should. And one of the moves we made up was like a trade Frank
Kimitsky in the tenth pick for Dennis Shrewder in the twenty fifth pick. Is
something that we pitched to our okay see friends and they actually like that.
And I like it too, because Shrewder, you know, he wants to
start, and maybe he wouldn't like coming off the bench for Ricky Rubio,
but I still think he would. But it'd be nice for a single year.
It's tough to go up that tenth pick, but if you have that
twenty fifth pick and you can get a guy like Grant Riller or Desmond Bane
with that twenty fifth pick, it becomes a little more palatable, I think,
almost interesting in a lot of ways. If you want to keep Kelly
Ubray. But you know, compared to Chris Paul trade, it doesn't sound
all that exciting. No, obviously, anything they do now is not because
it's not going to be Chris Paul. We're talking about tell when we finished
all NBA this year. The dim what you want, as you guys mentioned
on your podcast, is tough to work out because the Sun's best package is
not going to interest Brooklyn per se, just because they're not going to be
interested in picks or prospects, and so their best route to getting him would
be the latch into a three team deal that Brooklyn's already having. And I
don't even think you guys mentioned Drew Holiday. The framework there is just still
it's almost impossible. Yeah, And so I think you're the Suns are being
a better spot if Brooklyn needs a third team to complete Brabby Beal deal,
because then the number ten pick just becomes so much more valuable. Where in
that scenario you're imagining, Brooklyn's almost certainly giving up Lavert and Dinwoody, and
so Washington, with three years left on Leavert's deal, can definitely talk themselves
and okay, we'll take Laverty's lot old they're twenty six, but he's really
good. He's locked up, but we don't want Dinwoody. And so like
that's when the Suns would be easier for them to get involved. I love
that. That's a really great point. Yeah, I think Dinwoody would be
a great fit. I just think he would look really good on that team
and fix all the bench problems immediately, and on a good salary. He
is a free agent. I think he is a player option that he's definitely
going to decline after this year and sign some sort of weird bitcoin deal or
whatever whatever he tries to sign. But I think he would be a really
great fit. I think it's it's sort of fascinating to picture him next to
Devin Booker in lineups, just sort of as the backcourt. You know,
that's two guys that play relatively similarly actually, but Dinwoody can really create off
the dribble from that three point line and that makes that pretty unguardable too.
So yeah, I really like that fit a lot. It's something that sam
My co host once again has really been hammering home, and I definitely agree
it's a really good fit. There's and there are not a lot of options
out there when looking because I try to look at guard specifically, and so
like the point guard market in free agency is just it's terrible. After Fred
van Fed, it's Fred Van Leader Dj Augustine, like those are your option.
It's either a guy for twenty two million that's making too much, or
you try and compete with other teams that are using part of their mL E
for Dj Augustine, and he's probably going to go to a contender if he
can. So it's just it's it's not a great market. I agree,
and even but and then even the trade market is a little naked too,
and like the names you can come up with is like Patty Mills, just
not someone's going to come in and run the offense. H Thomas said.
Ranski is like, like I wouldn't hate that, but that as like your
big like solution to the let's just call it the notebooker minutes essentially like I
don't I don't know how I feel about that, and so like it just
gets really difficult to like the answer is not in free agency in all likelihood
for now it doesn't appear so. And then it's just gets really even hard
to find like something that they could pursue via trade. It definitely would be
easier for them to address the four spot via trade. And are there any
names that use zero in on like they are cough Aaron Gordon cough. I
mean Aaron Gordon is somebody that I'm not fully against the idea of what do
you when you talk about Aaron Gordon as a potential trade partner, how do
you view that deal? Like, what do you think it could be.
Maybe it's something like Kelly Woobray junior and number ten for Aaron Gordon and number
fifteen or something else. I don't know if number fifteen and Gordon is too
much. I view Gordon is the better player in that deal. Not necessarily
someone i'd want to give up number ten with four a loan when you're giving
up Kelly bridging her, but I think he's a better fit for Phoenix's roster
given what he can do just defensively and then being able to soak up like
those small ball five minutes as kind of a backup center, like he sort
of pras two holes for them. Yeah, I think I don't hate it,
and for a couple of reasons I don't hate it. I think he's
signed longer at a relatively good deal, which I think is nice because then
you're not in that situation immediately with Kelly Ubrey that you would be at the
end of the season. I think they I think their value is relatively close.
Like I think Aaron Gordon is a little bit better, And I think
the reason I think he is a little bit better is he's a little more
focused defensively and he's a better pass or where Kelly Ubrey just doesn't pass.
It's just not something that he does right currently. So I think that makes
makes a big difference. So I don't hate it, but he's just not
Like the shooting is so inconsistent that it's just hard to picture what the offense
would look like. And if you look at if you look at every single
thing that James Jones says when he talks about this team, I mean it's
James Jones, Like, how did he play in the NBA? He was
a shooter. He wants shooters, like, I think that's just something he
wants. And look at who he picked. He picked himself in the draft
of last year in Cameron Johnson, Like this is a guy who wants to
you know, and I don't. I don't know that he's the type of
guy that James Jones would like. I think the ideal situation is a shooter
who's relatively good at team defense at the very best. But I don't hate
it. I don't think it's a bad trade. I just don't know if
it's like a massive needle mover. Of note, he did shoot thirty six
point one percent on catch and shoot threes after January first, I also believe
he fell off a cliff though on that number post All Star break, and
I feel like that's something that's cyclical with Aaron Gordon is he always shoots better
towards the end of the season, but not really the whole end of the
season, Like then he'll trail off. Yeah, I still just I guess
because of what he does for them, could do for them positionally for defense,
I view him as a better player than Ubray in a vacuum, and
I consider him actually a much better fit for this roster, and I do
Look, the contracts are part of that two years left on a declining scale.
Yeah, I think that makes a difference too. Yeah, So you
know, I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. So
what does the end look now that Chris Paul information is within this, What
does the ideal offseason look like for the Suns in terms of like the whole
shebang of free agents, they resign, they poach who they drafted ten and
if you to work into Chris Paul trade at this point, like go for
it. Look, I think the best possible team if we're just talking about
next season, is it Chris Paul team. I just think it is.
And I think you can argue, well, could that be the best team
during the regular season, right this might be a condensed season, hopefully less
travel that would help a guy like Chris Paul and maybe he gets injured and
maybe it's not the best team in the regular season, but I think it
is. I still think it is, and I think ultimately in the playoffs,
as we talked about, when they're minutes increase that it's just a beautiful
fit, you know, all around. But if you don't do that,
I think what you have to do is you have to shop Kelly Uber.
You just have to. You have to see what's out there, and then
marginally as well, I think Ricky Rubio, just to see if you can
improve. But as we talked about the point guard market, it's just not
that great and if you're trying to move a guy like Ricky Rubio, it's
gonna be hard to get an upgrade as far as you know, fit next
to Devin Booker. So that really doesn't look great to me. I pitched
like, if you want to make a massive move, you know there's us
that the Warriors were willing to trade the second pick for the tenth and Kelly
Ubre. I pitched trading the tenth and Kelly Ubre for the second pick and
then packaging the second pick in DeAndre eight and for Bradley Beal and just trying
to pare Bradley Beale next to Devin Booker. That's like a massive, massive
move. But it's a really good like package for Bradley Beal as far as
the Wizards are concerned. At that point, you need to call Houston and
James about James Harden though, just what it's all the weird stuff that's going
on there. Yeah, And actually it's an excellent point. You know,
if you want to look at massive, massive moves, that that's what you
do. But at that point, you're blowing up something they've built for a
long time. Good you know, great teams trade good players. That's something
that happens relatively regularly. So I'm not fully against that. I'm I'll tell
you right now, a lot of Suns fans hate when I talk about stuff
like this, but I think when you have a guy like Devin Booker that's
at the level that he is currently at, all options have to be on
the table because there's a chance that he could have like one of the best
offensive, high load offensive seasons next next season, Kevin Durant type offensive season.
That's possible out of Devin Booker next year. And like, you know,
you look at okay See and I brought this up on our podcast before
you look at okay See with Kevin Durant, that window was open earlier than
they thought and then they never made it back to the finals. With that.
With that, yeah, that's great point. So sometimes you look at
these guys and say, oh, next year, it could be that year
where he has at Kevin Durant level season. And right now, if you
want to look at what the value is for DeAndre Aan, right now is
not the worst time to do it as far as just seeing what's out there.
But you know that that's that's kind of a massive, massive thing,
and who knows if that lines up to what people want. It's just something
to look at, Like LaMelo Ball and DeAndre Aan on the Wizard's kind of
fun. That's it's a fun team. Uh. But beyond that, fixing
the bench if you can if like if there's no big upgrades that you can
get out of trading Ricky Rubio and Kelly, which I think they're likely,
isn't other than the potential Chris Paul trade that's on, you know, rumored
now. Then you have to fix the bench as much as possible, and
I think if you can find another guy that's sort of in that mid contract
level we talked about Dennis Shrewder, and if you can keep a pick that's
particularly good, that's good because what you're doing is you're loading up on contracts
that are a little more tradeable in the mid season. Like if you have
two fifteen million dollar guys like Dennis Shrewder and Kelly Ubray and you want to
make a trade in the middle of the season, it's not the worst thing
to have, Like, that's a nice thing to have. So it's tough
because I want the best team possible. So I kind of always go back
to the Chris Paul thing in my mind. I just don't think it's the
worst. But you gotta take swings if you can. But if you can,
if nothing makes sense, fix the bench as much as possible and see
if you can fight for that eighth seed. Not the most fun offseason,
And look, that's why I think Chris Paul moved might And this is odd
to say, about someone who's so good and make so much money. But
it kind of straddles the fence because I don't think you need to short circuit
your future in any way to do it. But you bring up a great
point in that, like people will point you bake well, Devin Booker has
four years left on his like there's no urgency there, and like, no,
the goal isn't to get to the final year of his deal so that
he can force a trade or the final year and a half, like you
need to maximize the time you have with him. The fact that you've already
maxed him out is your timeline, Like you've a max player who deserves it.
He's on your roster, and whether he can be the best player in
a title contending team, yes, that remains to be seen. But he's
top twenty five, top twenty, like he's there now, and it's like
that is your urgency. And I feel like, at least nationally and maybe
even when you localize it, fans get too caught up in well, like
there's no urgency there because he's not almost a free agent, and it's like,
well, you're not trying to win just in the year before his contracts
up like, that's not how this works. Yeah, I completely agree.
I think you just you know, as fans, you get attached to the
players that you draft, and you just want to see those guys be good.
You want to win with them. You know, there were some Lakers
fans that were worried about trading Kuzma for Ad. You know that that's the
type of thing that fans do. They're just worried about those types of things.
So I understand why fans do that, But I think, yeah,
I think Devin Booker has made a every single season. He's gotten better every
single season, and he was really good this year. He gets better next
year. You gotta treat him like he's ready. You gotta. At some
point you paid him like he's ready. So like that's like, so I
would treat him like he's ready anyway. I would think definitely after this past
season. But yeah, if if he's gonna have that type of year,
Like, how do you not view this as a as a win now situation?
I know that's not a license to go full Nicks here, but it's
it's like the Chris Paul trade, Like, yeah, that's a middle ground.
I think you could argue you're talking about beal, but like if a
move like that presented itself, like outside Chris Paul, where yeah, it's
gonna cost you some future assets, but like you are sort of on that
timeline. You don't need to be reckless, but I do think you need
it needs to be You're not even open minded. I'd probably call it like
an active aggression. Yeah, to me, if you can get Bradley Bill
and Devin Booker on the same team, you're creating one of the greatest offensive
backcourts of all time, and you'll be fine. You'll figure it out from
there. You have options at that point. Teams become a lot easier to
build when you have two offensive superstars than just one, right for sure,
So I don't hate it. The final question I have for you is me
throwing it to you. Is there anything I missed you wanted to discuss,
or just what's the biggest misrepresentation or most undercovered thing about this team right now?
I think a continuity of front office and coaching staff matters a lot in
the NBA. I think just having guys that speak the language that you speak
matters a lot. And I think a lot of people are discounting how much
that's going to matter for Devin Booker and the guys that stay on this team
going forward. Just having a guy like Monty Williams who they like, they
trust, they understand, and they have a relationship with and he's not going
to be fired. And I think those types of things matter. And with
Robert Sarver, some of those firings were the right move. I think Ryan
McDonough did a terrible job as the general manager of the Phoenix Suns. The
firing was at a weird time, but fire that guy. He did a
bad job and he picked the wrong guys just about every single draft that he
drafted outside of Devin Bookers. So definitely let him go through another draft in
free agency first though, before you find yeah and pick the wrong guy.
But it is what it is. I mean, you have sometimes you have
to fire guys and there's no right timing for it. But now they don't.
I think now they have the right group. I tend to trust James
Jones and maybe I shouldn't, but the fact that the Cam Johnson move worked
out a little bit I think matters. But I think going forward, continuity
will matter. The other thing I want to say is that was really great
timing to record this podcast, Dan, because that news came out. I
mean within the first twenty minutes of this podcast, all of a sudden,
the entire tenor of the podcast changed, and now you can use that to
market this podcast. I don't know if you had some inside knowledge or something,
but feel free to share it with me. Yeah. I definitely have
knowledge of the inner workings of how Ryan Winnhorse is going to report things,
so that is definitely something I'm a specialist. Then, the one thing I've
been seeing since the news came out is there are many there. I don't
want to say people are overvaluing Chris Paul, but a lot of these deals
that the Sun's giving up an awful lot. I've seen too many proposals with
they're twenty twenty one pick or Michael Bridges. Yeah, first of all,
no, Michael Bridges is one of the two most untouchable players in the NBA
behind Frank niel A Kina, and so like that just needs to that needs
to stop. But the one thing I tell people I have consistently told people
about Chris Paul throughout this time, is that he will be traded for less
than you think. I think that is the main thing that's going to happen,
because there's just not a lot of ways for contenders to make the space
for him, and their picks are valueless for a team like okayc that has
four hundred picks. It's just I think he's going to be moved for less
than people realize. Yeah, if they get more, I think that'll probably
say, be an indicator of the team that they were dealing with, rather
than Chris Paul's value itself. Like if a Nicks come in at the eleventh
hour here and they're like, take all our future picks, but would you
give up all protected twenty twenty one pick for Chris Paul because in theory,
the value of that pick should be less. But it's even just the way
people talk about that draft class, and I have not dug into it in
the slightest, like I'd have to put like lottery protection on it to feel
even okay, just because if you're in the Western Conference, Yeah, the
reality is that, yeah, you could trade for Chris Paul, but you
also might finish in the lottery if you can, if you can keep the
tenth pick this year and then lottery protected next year. I think I would
okay if you're giving up the tenth pick this year and then you're also including
another pick next year. I just don't think you have to like I just
think you can get him for less than that. I'm gonna be interested to
see one where he goes. If it's I hope it's Phoenix, Like I
wanted to see him going to a dark Horse or Milwaukee would have been fun
just to play with you, honest, But if it's not gonna be Milwaukee,
I hope it's Phoenix. That was a That was a fantastic time to
record this podcast. Thank you for giving me ninety minutes on the air.
This was great. Mike. If you guys are not love billing him on
Twitter, he is Mike fe Hill at Protected Pick spelled exactly as it sounds,
and definitely check out the Timeline podcast part of the Blue Wire Podcast Networking.
You can follow them on Twitter as well. At the Timeline pod spelled
exactly as it sounds. I love these handles that I don't have to spell
out. So thank you. Rest ashured I will be pestering you again in
the future. So thank you so much for coming on I'm looking forward to
it. Sugar Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler,
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