WEBVTT

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All right, Oh, you guess
it's up to me, right, who's

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driving the bus? I guess I
am doing it. Ask not what your

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country can do for you, Ask
what you can do for your country.

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Mister garbutchaf tear down this wall,
read my lifts. Today's settlement of seven

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hundred eighty seven million, five hundred
thousand dollars represents vindication and accountability. Lies

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have consequences. It's the Ricochet Podcast. I'm Rob Long with Peter Robinson and

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Charlie Cook. Today we're going to
talk to Ann Coulter. Would you see

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Belts and deb Saunders? Lots to
talk about. Let's have a podcast.

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Believe me, you'll never get bored
with when we never get bored. Hello

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and welco The Ricochet Podcast Number six
hundred thirty eight, six hundred thirty eight

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podcasts. Oh man, um and
uh yeah, I guess six hundred and

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thirty eight more to go. Um. I am Rob Long in New York

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City. I'm joined as always by
Peter Robinson and Palo Alto, California.

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How are you? Peter? Very
well should say that James Lilacs is abroad.

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James Lilax is taking that trip to
Spain that we caused so much commotion

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over the the proper pronunciation of Barcelona. Um depends on where you're from.

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UM. And we're joined by Charles
C. Cook Charlie Cook in Florida.

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Is that Creig correct? How are
you doing everything good? We should?

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We should. Before we get jumping
into the news, we have and Culture

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as a guest at dev Saunders,
So it's going to be a pack show.

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Before we get in there, we
do want to say we had a

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great time in New Orleans, Charlie, right, we did. Absolutely.

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We stood on the street and we
watched Dixieland jazz. That's right, That's

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right. That was That was after
a great dinner with a bunch of people.

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UM we had I don't know,
we had that thirty maybe thirty more,

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thirty more um Rick and members came
spent. Some people spent the whole

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week, Some people spent the long
weekend. Uh. Some people like me

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flew in and flew out. UM. Randy way Voda, he organized the

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whole thing, did a great job. Of course, Melissa, you know

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she said up the podcast recording which
would be posted shortly, which was really

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more of a conversation UM among all
of us because people joined in, so

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you want to have to tune up
a video to hear the audio to hear

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everybody joined by a member named Dan
who has been a long time member,

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a charter member. How a bunch
of charter members, Peter by the reality,

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Yeah, you should come to one
of these. They would like to

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shake your hand. Um. And
uh, a lot of them, like

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Dan had had never posted. They're
just members of the community, really,

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and that's really great. And then
some great ideas came too many people to

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name all. Some great ideas came
out of a lot of people had some

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great thoughts. For m painter Geane, for instance, she had a great

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thought for maybe we'd have some kind
of like a Bricochet version of Ricoche Etsy

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somewhere on the site, which would
be awesome. Um. And it was

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a great time, a lot of
great conversation, a lot of fun.

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I did have to buy two drinks. I told you I would buy drinks

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for it. Anyone who joined Ricochet
just to come to that meet up.

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And there were two people raised their
hand. They both got pretty good sas

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racks. By the way, Um, and if you're listening to this and

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you thought yourself yeah, I don't
know. I want to join. I'll

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join just to throw them some money. I mean, we'd like you to

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say that. By the way,
Um, you should join for the things

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like this. This was loads of
fun. They're gonna be more of them.

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We'll talk about more of them later. Um. But this is part

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of the joy of being in a
community of actual people and not just faceless

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um and bots. You know,
we get together and we have fun.

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So um, next time, Peter, you gotta come, I'd love to.

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I'd love to. In the meantime, we are going to talk a

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little bit today with the Ann and
Dead Anne, another Florida resident. I

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want to talk to get Anne and
Charlie talk a little bit about whether it's

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the implosion of Ron de Santis is
real, fake, imagined wish casting in

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the parts of the liberal media,
or what parts of it are true,

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what parts of are false, if
not all of them are Whilst but before

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we do, speaking of twenty twenty
four, Robert Kennedy Junior is running for

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president in the United States. He's
already polling at fourteen percent. I don't

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know what to say about that,
except so very recently I just assumed he

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was kind of a crackpot on the
fringes, But that doesn't mean that's not

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actually musually exclusive. I don't know
what to make of it either. I

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thought he was a crack pot on
the fringes because of his well i'll tell

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you why, because I read what
the Mainspring stream press has been saying about

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him for low these many years,
and so far as I knew, he

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had dedicated himself after a series of
sort of conventional liberal do good and causes,

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he dedicated himself in recent years to
the cause of anti vaccines. And

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then it turns out, according to
friends of mine who know more about this

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than I do, that at least
during COVID, he had the better of

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a number of arguments, and the
public health authorities and the conventional wisdom had

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the worse. So I don't I
really don't know what to make The numbers,

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of course, indicate that well there, it seems to me it indicates

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a couple of things. One is
that Joe Biden is just extremely weak.

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If Robert Kennedy, whom only people
our age and up, and I refer

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to you and me, Rob and
exclude Charlie our age and up. Actually

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yeah, actually not much actually have
a working memory of when the Kennedy's were

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a glamorous and serious element in the
American politics. So that he's Puly fourteen

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percent when most of the electorate can't
remember who the Kennedys are exactly, says

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something. And then the other thing
that says is that the barriers to entry

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to use up in the school term
are way low now when it comes to

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presidential races. I don't believe Vivic
Ramaswamy really is running for president. It's

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hard for me to believe it.
Maybe in his heart of hearts he is,

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but it looks to me as though
there's no downside and running for president.

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If your Vivic Ramaswamy or now Larry
Elder apparently has announced that he's running

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for president, you get your talk
radio number numbers up, You get your

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start collecting email addresses to whom the
publisher of your next book can promote your

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book. And maybe RFK Jr.
Is doing something like that. This is

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just you gotta be careful because you
might win. I mean, that's kind

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of what Trump yes, yes,
on election night, and nobody is more

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surprised than he exactly. So let's
see what Charlie Trump. Charlie makes of

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all this well. I think the
second point you made is the keywan.

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I do think he's a kug.
You do, but oh yeah, you've

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looked into it more than I have. Wow. The thing is is,

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if you're reflexively against all vaccines and
consider them to be a plot, you

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will eventually stumble upon a position that
could, if you squint, seem president.

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You know, my mother teaches children
with autism, and he ran around

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the country in the world telling parents
that vaccines can give you autism, as

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if it's an infectious disease, which
is lunacy. But there's the guy,

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the kook. But I think you're
dead on Peter when you say that.

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The fact that he jumped up instantly
to fourteen fifteen percent shows us something about

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Biden. And I actually think the
press is underplaying this story. Shock horror.

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The history of sitting presidents who are
challenged, including by Kennedy's, is

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not one right that you would wish
to see repeated. Are a Democrat?

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Has anybody ever won without happening?
No? I mean, obviously there are

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fringe candidates. I don't mean ideological, I mean in terms of their support

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who say I'm going to challenge the
president. In twenty sixteen, Bill World

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ran for the Republican nomination against Donald
Trump, but he never polled at more

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than two or three percent. Even
that was rare. There was no challenger

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for Obama, There was no challenger
for George W. Bush, There was

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no challenger for Clinton. There was
a challenger for George H. W.

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Bush. His name was perhap U
Cannon. He polled in the double digits

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and he really did a lot of
damage to George H. W. Bush's

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re election campaign. Before that,
Ted Kennedy took on Jimmy Carter, damaged

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Jimmy Carter a great deal. Two
of the seven campaign videos that Ronald Reagan

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ran in nineteen eighty were just Ted
Kennedy speaking, and then at the end

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it said Reagan for President. Four
years earlier, Reagan himself had on Gerald

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Ford, nearly won the nomination,
Gerald Ford lost. It never came to

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that in sixty eight because Johnston stepped
out, but he had a challenger.

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Robert F. Kennedy was one of
them, Robert F. Kennedy Junior as

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father. The point here is that
we have not, in half a century

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or more had a challenger who has
pulled in the double digits against a sitting

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president and that sitting president won the
subsequent reelection campaign. This could do a

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lot of damage. And the fact, as you said, that Biden is

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that eighty five percent against this guy
who is a kook, who is not

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well known, shows you that he's
weak and really should represent an alarm.

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Not because Biden's going to lose the
nomination, not I think because Robert F.

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Kennedy Junior is going to be the
nominee or the president, but just

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because it's very unusual and it never
ends well, right, I mean that,

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So how come you didn't provide that
history? Listen, Rob Well,

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I was gonna Charlie didn't even go
to Yale for goodness sake. That's right.

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Well, look, I mean,
I guess the question is, um,

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if you're the Biden campaign, which
is starting, I guess it's gonna

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people say they're gonna announced next week, what are you hoping for? Um?

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Are you hoping for Donald Trump?
Are you hoping for someone else?

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I mean, right right now,
the political calculation seems to be to be

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just from looking at how incredibly over
the top the the criticism of Ron de

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santisis and also just how how you
know this is my own uh takeaway here?

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How overly um um excited and excitable
the press is about the missteps that

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they perceived that ron and Santis has
done. Um that they're really frightened of

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him. Oh for sure. Um, so they don't want him, but

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I remember twenty six they really wanted
Trump. They still want Trump. They

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still still Trump, they still want
Trump Trump. Could I I'm going to

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say something that sounds obvious, and
it is obvious, except that it surprised

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me at the time, and it
has never ceased to surprise me since the

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first time I walked into the Oval
office. Oh I was, I can't

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remember my first impression was, and
it just words formed unbidden in my mind.

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Wait a minute, He's just a
man, and we tend to forget

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at least, and I would tend
to forget it every time you see Ronald

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I live. I worked in a
white House. So it's it's in my

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head that at the center of all
of this is an eighty something, you're

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old human being who is clearly declining
and declining pretty quickly. Everyone around him

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knows that. I can tell you
from working in an operation like that,

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that that if the president seems a
little off one morning, word moves right

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through the whole organization. That And
so there are people who we complain all

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the time about the way the progressive
left is trying to keep us from saying

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anything out loud in that organization.
They're not allowed to say to each other.

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You know, I'm not sure he's
going to look too good by convention

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time. Um So, so there
is this this weird thing where they all

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know that he's declining, but nobody's
allowed to say so except RFK Junior perhaps.

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But I'm just it's very easy to
do to talk about these terms in

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terms of sort of strategy, as
if these people were talking about are Big

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Macy's Day balloons parading down the political
street or they have control over themselves in

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acting. So let's jump right into
this and we're talking about politics, and

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we are joined by our old friend
and culture. That's how you know you're

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listening to an independent, fearless conservative
podcast, because Anne's here to give us

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some independent and fearless conservative conversation and
was famously wrote a book called In Trump

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We Trust and then I can then
probably has an addendum to it which is

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a little bit more throat. I've
given the answer one million times before.

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Yeah, of course I would write
in Trump we trust again. Look at

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the people he was running against.
They were all open borders. I mean,

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it was the same reason I supported
Romney his self deportation versus Huckleberry,

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who said illegal immigration is how we
make up for slavery. New Gingrich,

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who wanted to just let me say
it like that. Though I don't think

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he said it like that. That
looks like that was a very good invitation.

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Gingrich. Remember he wanted to let
them all pour in and let towns

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take well up town sols and have
them vote on which illegals can stay.

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And this is just this has been
a dividing line between the public and our

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leaders and our elites forever. I
knew immigration was the most important issue.

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It still is because Trump didn't do
anything when I turned on Trump. You're

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obviously not following me assiduously on Twitter
pretty much right away. I mean,

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at the time of the nomination,
he started hiring you know, Jared Kushner

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and the rest of them, and
unlike Fox News, I don't lie.

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I've been taking the slings and narrows
for attacking him for not fulfilling his promises,

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which one of them the White House. I said he wouldn't win if

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he didn't win re election, if
he didn't build the wall, And guess

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what, he didn't build the wall, and he didn't win re election.

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So I'm still looking for a politician
who will make those promises. The best

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thing that could have happened to the
country. Something else I've said a million

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times would have been if on election
night two from sixteen, he comes out

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at two am, Um, who
we beat Hillary? Yay uh, he

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won if he had had a heart
attack and died right then, because that's

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all we ever got out of Trump. He had the best campaign of any

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presidential campaign I've ever seen, and
then decided it was all about him,

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it wasn't the issues, and started
immediately betraying his bass um. All right,

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So okay, so that that why
he didn't do it. I mean,

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I, you and I and you
and I have have have but wildly

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and bizarrely found ourselves on the same
side, and crowded dining in crowded dinner

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parties making it start every now and
then I could see and looking around this

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and cribbed table filled with like really
smart people and say it's this guy I'm

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agreeing with, Like, you know, the shadow of doubt comes over you.

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Um, why isn't immigration still an
issue? I mean, no one's

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talking about it. Anybody talking about
it. I haven't seen it. It's

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it's it's cultural issues, it's the
woke, this woke that it no one's

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talking about immigration. Well, I
sort of despair of my party and the

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country and thus the world. Um, I don't know we I mean people

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have said it forever. Democrats are
the evil party, Republicans are the stupid

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party, and whoa mama are they
fulfilling that right now? They want to

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talk about I mean, how do
we win? We went on crime and

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immigration, Crime and immigration, that
is what people are desperate to vote on.

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And no our party is running off, I mean many of them running

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off on conspiracy theories. And was
the FBI really behind January sixth? Then

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Big Farma and Bill Gates is inserting
us with with with with with clip with

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chips And now they've been played.
As I wrote a couple of weeks ago,

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the Democrats only hope for getting Biden
reelected and they are going to have

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to do the weekend of Bernie's thing
is to maneuver Republicans into renominating Donald Trump,

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who has now lost re election cycles
in a row for US. So

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what do they do Exactly what they
did throughout his term in office, which

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was the thesis of my book,
Resistance is Futile. Instead of attacking Trump

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for stuff he's actually done, they
attack him on these utterly nonsense charges,

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and they drive people who hate him, like me, into defending him and

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seeing, no, he's a douche, but he's not a Russian agent.

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Knock it off media, And so
they launched this ridiculous and it is ridiculous,

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the da Alvin Braggs indictment of Donald
Trump. And man did they play

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the conservative media. I don't know
if you guys listen to conservative talk radio

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and away we're lucky that am is
being removed from all cars Right now,

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Buck and Clay talk about nothing but
Emperor God Donald Trump and oh my gosh,

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she's so great. And did you
see the Republicans last week? They

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all or maybe this week, whenever
they hold a hearing attacking Alvin Brag,

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I mean, the entire Republican party
is now in a all they will talk

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about is we must save Trump?
Tucker is interviewing him. Oh, he's

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back on top at Fox. So
yeah, Okay, Republicans, I thought

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next year was going to be a
blast. We'd have Governor Ron De Santis

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running against this senile dementia patient.
Things would be fun. Finally we start

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to win again. It's been a
long time since we've won. Nope,

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Nope, my party has decided we
are pedals to the medal for a fourth

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loss. Okay, An, you're
advising Ron De Santis? Do you say

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do you say what some people are
blogging already? It's just not your year.

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You're young, You're too talented to
destroy yourself flinging yourself at Donald Trump.

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Just sit this one out, or
do you say what? Do you

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say? I mean the art The
counter argument is there was a pull the

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other day that showed in a head
to head match matchup in I think it

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was three of the state with Arizona, Georgia, and one other of the

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so called battlegrounds, not Pennsylvan Maybe
he was North Carolina. In any event,

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Trump was trailing Biden in all three
states, and DeSantis was up on

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Biden in all three states. There's
a funny way in which DeSantis has not

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uttered one. He has not uttered
the T word once. He's still holding

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his fire and he's still in double
I mean, there's a certain sense in

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which he's still in a strong position, but it's hard to escape the feeling

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that he needs to do something.
Fire a gun, run up a flag,

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let your people know that you're still
in the fights. Okay, all

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I'm doing is displaying exasperation. What
would you tell him? I totally disagree

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with your analysis. This was the
santas Is to lose. He was doing

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everything right, ignoring Trump, pushing
through really fantastic stuff, lord, and

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just one thing, win after win
after win. He was way ahead of

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anyone out there, except I suppose
the President of Sweden on the reaction to

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COVID, And you know a lot
of us have put it in the back

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of our minds, but no,
a lot of kids were ruined, careers

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were ruined. That is still a
live, important issue. And he didn't

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just you know, flip a coin
and say, oh, keep the stayed

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open. No, he was talking
to um, you know, Rob's friend,

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Jay Bakaria, my friend. Yeah, I lent him to rob by

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the way By who paid a price
for being right. Yeah, the whole

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Great Barrington Declaration. Guys, he
was listening to them. He did the

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right thing. Um, same thing
on crime, same thing on Black Lives

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Matter, and up until this week
or was it last week? I called

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and screamed at all of his campaign
people. Boy, they must love to

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see your caller id pop up.
He was doing the exacts right thing on

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abortion until a week ago. And
now he signed the Republican Assistant Suicide Acts.

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So let's move on and try to
find somebody else. No, seriously,

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you're done with Ron de Santis.
I think he cannot win. He

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cannot win how many And by the
way, Peter and Rob, I think

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you both know I am a fanatical
pro lifer. I have been writing and

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talking about this forever. It is
because I want to save babies that I

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think it's better for Republicans to be
elected than for Democrats to be elected.

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We've had eleven elections since Dabbs and
these hardcore anti abortion bills initiatives. Candidates,

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judges lose, lose, lose,
lose, lose. What De Santis

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did originally only allow abortion for the
first fifteen weeks, beautiful perfect, So

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what went wrong. Did he did
he lose control of the of his own

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legislature? How did that happen?
How did they from fifteen to six?

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Who knows? He signed a six
week back band. And I have been

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in Florida for the past week and
going out quite a bit with different kinds

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of people, not just idiot donors, but some idiot donor And I don't

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even bring it up. Every place
I go, everyone is saying, he's

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done. Why did he do this? Why did he do this? So?

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What was he supposed to do?
Because he won the election so well

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nineteen points, swept in all sorts
of people all across the state, put

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supermajorities in both the Senate and the
House in the state. He couldn't veto

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the bil City. Well for one
thing, he's kind of powerful. What

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he should have done is call up
the Republicans and say, knock this crap

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off. But if you don't have
the foresight to do that. Wow.

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He has foresight with hurricanes, he
has foresight with tornado, he has foresight

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with COVID, he has foresight with
BLM. But this, oh huh,

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that's just appeared out of nowhere.
I guess I got to sign it but

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yes, if it comes to that, and you're not anticipating anything that's going

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on in the Florida legislature, Oh
my gosh, where did this come from?

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Yeah, you're vetoing. Oh,
yes, you vetoing. You say

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the public isn't there yet. We're
gonna do this incrementally. We're gonna do

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it bit by bit. I'm pro
life, I would say, because I

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am. We try to talk people
out of it. I mean, I

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did a video on this on my
sub stack too, videos in fact,

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about how abortion was killing us.
And I think, unlike a lot of

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other people saying this, I don't
know if it's all of them. Again,

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I am a genuinely pro life person. I always have been, I

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always will be. These are zealots
who don't care about saving babies lives.

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Oh and by the way, don't
care about saving adults lives. Because once

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we have huge democratic majorities in the
House, in the Senate, and the

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presidency, well, good keeping your
guns. Oh, we're totally going to

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get We're going to get the most
heinous legislation. This is going to be

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worse than the postwater Gate Congress.
If Republicans, if the zealots keep this

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crap up. So more babies will
die, more adults will die, but

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you'll have these zealots will be so
proud of their right up in Catholic Sites

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magazine. So, Anne, I
have some really bad news for you.

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I think we agree. I mean
I don't. I would, I would,

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I would put it nicer. But
I've talked about how the you know,

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the argument about the anti rhino movement
in the Republican Party is a disaster,

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that the rub Party needs more rhinos. Well, I don't think this

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is the rhino position. So I'm
sorry, I disagree with you on that.

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Good I'm trying to figure out how
he gets out of this because okay,

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but isn't this early common. It's
like, what is this like?

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It's like a it's it's it's April. I'm hoping that but unless he takes

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this back, I think there's a
very very good chance he loses the general

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against Biden. And I would.
I mean, I have all these steak

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bets all over town, but the
nominee isn't going to be Trump. I

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didn't specifically say it would be to
Santis, but I have really been looking

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forward to next year having de Santis. You know, smart and energetic,

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and all these wins having him run
against Biden, and now the presidential election

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will be all about abortion. And
like every other election we have had since

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Dobbs, everyone everyone, Kansas,
New Hampshire, Michigan, not just you

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know, crazy states like New York
and California. Apparently I don't care what

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people say in polls when they go
into the privacy of the voting booth,

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and I think I know why they
say this. They decide, Okay,

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I would never have an abortion.
I would advise everyone around me not to

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have an abortion. I do think
this is a life, but I don't

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want to to prohibit other people from
doing it. And if I could just

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say one other thing about that,
the stupid rhyme line or Democrat line technically

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about I'm personally opposed to abortion,
but I don't think the government, Okay,

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that's stupid when it's a constitutional right. We won pro lifers. It

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00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.960
is a hideous thing that for this
long the right to stick a fork in

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a baby's head was enshrined in our
constitution. According to the Supreme Court,

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it was hideous to get something attached
to the constitution. It really should be

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a basic, fundamental right, we
won on that, But when it comes

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00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.200
to state laws, I think it
actually does make some sense. And I

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mean, I'm just trying to explain
why people in polls stay they're against abortion

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written when they hopefully say, oops, don't want to end it. I

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think it does make some sense to
say I'm personally opposed, but six weeks

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is too sure. That's basically banning
abortion from conception, which I'm not against.

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Oh and I came up with the
compromise proposal, So don't think I'm

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not constantly working on these things.
You're a problem solver. Yeah, I'm

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a problem solver, and that is
I think we need laws that ban abortion

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00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:07.279
only for registered Republicans. So how
does he take it back? I mean,

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00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.839
you said take it back. And
if he doesn't and can't take it

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00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.240
back, who who'd you get?
Because you know, Brian Kempt signed a

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six week abortion ban, Greg Abbott
signed a six week abortion ban. Mike

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00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:22.079
Dwine, he's a presidential candidate,
signed a six week abortion ban. I

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00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.839
mean, Glenn Junkin is that the
sort of person tho none of those are

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presidential candidates. How he could take
it back, which I consider the more

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important thing. I think he'd he'd
wait a few months, go back to

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the morons in the Florida legislature and
just say we think this is unworkable,

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you know, attach some other stuff
to it, like I think they already

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have, you know, encouragement for
adoption, which is great. Eight I'm

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all four of that. But take
it back and go back to I don't

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know, twelve weeks, ten weeks. It can't. We will lose on

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that, and you know Democrats will
run on that. And who are my

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00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.279
backup choices? I have two of
them. One I'd like to ask you

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00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:07.559
guys about because there's one thing that's
a gaping hole in this idea, and

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that is yes, the governor of
Virginia, Glenn Yonkin and the Governor of

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00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.000
Montana, greg Ganforte. Those are
my only two backups. Everyone else you

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mentioned was ridiculous and would never be
a candidate anyway. Wait, wait,

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00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:23.119
wait, hold on, just one
elaborate on that a little bit. Greg

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Abbott, I can see, is
too Texan. He's not going to travel.

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But Brian Kemp, I've not met
him. I don't know the man.

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And you're just shaking your head as
though I'm saying I'm talking crazy talk.

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Why is it crazy talk? George
is a big complicated states he stood

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up. He has there's no Trump
fingerprint on the man anywhere in his record,

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and he got elected pretty big.
Right. That's wrong with him exactly

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00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:51.960
what he won on running against Trump
as by man, that's the only thing

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that's good about him. Georgia Republicans
were trying to tell us, please just

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send us a normal Republican take that
away, and UM, no, he's

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00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:06.559
well. I mean the reason I
mentioned those people, I agree with you,

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they're not running. That was sort
of what I was saying. So

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00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.039
that's why I mentioned Glen young Kin
because it seems to me that that's your

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00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.559
choice, right, I mean,
if it's not the Santis, that's your

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choice, and I think he's good, I'd be totally happy with Glen Junkiness

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00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.960
a nominee. The problem with him
is, which I've seen because I've been

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00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.799
promoting him as to Santis as vice
president until now. The problem with Junkin,

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00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.960
which shows up in all of my
sub stack comments whatever I do a

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00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:37.799
video promoting Junkin as my vice presidential
choice is um which kind of annoys me.

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00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.799
Is oh, Carlile Carlile oh,
I'd never vote for somebody from Carlisle.

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00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.039
And I say to these people from
one thing, look at what we

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00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:55.119
should. We should a very very
powerful, connected private equity merchant what we

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00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.440
used to call merchant bank. And
so there's going to be tons and tons

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00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.799
of really really horrible stuff. They're
going to be able to dig up that

397
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:04.799
Carlisle did that. What you're saying, well, back in the nineteenth century

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00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.880
when they were still funding whaling ships, we called the merchant banks. Yes,

399
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:15.839
Rob, I'm referring to you guys
on Well, first of all,

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what do I say to people who, oh it was with Carla. I

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00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.079
mean, just for the fact that
someone is smart and went to Carlo,

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00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:23.680
I was like rejecting to Santras because
he went to Harvard. Um, yes,

403
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:27.720
if if our candidate is in a
black box and we know absolutely nothing

404
00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.440
else about him, but he once
worked at Carlisle. Totally with you,

405
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:36.400
So do you feel do you feel
other stuff? And he's done really great

406
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:38.000
stuff. But what I defer to
you guy, and I haven't looked into

407
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:42.160
this because I was just thinking of
him as vice presidential candidate until last week.

408
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.240
Um, he wasn't involved in some
buyouts. Now I mean, it

409
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.759
depends what kind of buy out it
was. So so you tell me when

410
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.519
we went through this. You went
through this in particular because you were very

411
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.079
strongly in favor of Mitt Romney.
Mitt Romney was at bank Cap, but

412
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.960
On made two hundred million dollars.
Glenn Youngkin went to Carlyle and made one

413
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.599
hundred million. So there's some rough
cut where the opposition ought to be about

414
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.039
half as much to Youngcan as it
was to Romney. But what was that

415
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.039
fatal for Romney? Could he have
overcome it? Because if Romney was able

416
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:17.799
to overcome it, Youngkins should be
able to as well. As far as

417
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.880
I can tell, he's a terrific
guy. He was what was he?

418
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.759
They had some kind of split leadership
of Carlyle when he was running the place.

419
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:30.640
There were co CEOs or something like
that. I myself have some doubts

420
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:37.920
about the early days of Carlyle when
it was filled with George hw Bush people

421
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.920
and the Arabs were the first big
investors. It was it looked a little

422
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:47.799
I would rather, But Glen Youngkin
came along long after that, after Rubinstein

423
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:52.400
had turned it into a big operation. Basically, I mean, the charge

424
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.960
is not that he's up to nefarious
deals that I don't think that could stick

425
00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:59.440
against him. Let them dig and
dig and dig, as if the press

426
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.519
ever actually wanted to do any real
reporting. Again, the charge is just

427
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:05.240
that he's he's a white guy who's
rich. It's the same, it's the

428
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:10.039
Romney problem. Well I think it. Um No, No, I mean,

429
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:14.720
I hope, I hope you you're
that is correct. But it isn't

430
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.720
just that he's a white guy that
rich, that's rich. It's Romney's problem.

431
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:21.119
And again I would still support him. He was the only he had

432
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.240
the toughest position on immigration at the
time, and our country is going,

433
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:29.160
oh my gosh, you guys are
in California. You know what happens to

434
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:35.319
the whole country with unrestricted immigration.
So um with Romney. I mean,

435
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:38.720
the most important fact everyone in politics
should know. The Democrats who are know

436
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:44.200
what Daniel shore Shore knows. That
is, every single election is decided by

437
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.279
the white working class. Now,
Yunken has a lot of pull with the

438
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:51.440
white working class. How did he
win that election in a purple state?

439
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:58.000
Exactly ICs it was the white working
class. He walked after the schools his

440
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.720
first day in office. Look him, I'm on wikipe his first day in

441
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:02.680
office, it was just executive order, executive order, no masks, no

442
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:07.599
vaccine mandate, no CRT in the
schools. So he's done a lot of

443
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.559
great stuff and he does have that
attraction to the white working class. So

444
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:14.400
that's fantastic. What we need to
know. What killed Romney, in my

445
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.359
opinion, wasn't just rich white guy. He also was kind of a Doric

446
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:22.119
sort of stiff. I don't think
Glancin is that. No. I don't

447
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.400
think so either, specifically that his
deals laid off a lot of people,

448
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:34.519
a lot of the white working class. So on the dessentist issue, I

449
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.720
think that if you're right about the
six week ban, and I'm not sure

450
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:43.519
you are, although I do accept
it's a challenge, then he's dead and

451
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:49.720
you need to give up on him, because the prospect of taking it back,

452
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:55.039
I think would be worse. He
has a reputation as this fighter who

453
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.759
doesn't back down, doesn't care.
He's going to have to keep that reputation.

454
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.880
He's going to beat Trump. Let
alone be a presidential nominee. If

455
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:07.199
he goes back to the legislature and
says change this to ten weeks. In

456
00:34:07.239 --> 00:34:12.360
the minds of the people who care
about this, the difference between ten and

457
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:15.199
six weeks, it's not good enough. Also, he's already signed six weeks

458
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.199
fifteen. Maybe you stick with fifteen. I can see an argument, But

459
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:22.760
ten eight the legislature is not going
to repeal the law take it back to

460
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.360
fifteen. So what you're saying,
in effect, I think is he's done

461
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.480
if you're right about the underlying question, which again I'm not sure you are,

462
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:34.880
although I do think it's a challenge. No. Unfortunately, what I'm

463
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.440
seeing, if I were looking into
my crystal ball, and I hope it

464
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:39.360
doesn't work this way, is yeah, he gets the nomination and then he

465
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:44.679
loses the general because of the abortion
ban. I disagree that there is no

466
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:49.360
way for him or the legislature to
take it back. No politician has,

467
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:53.599
no candidate has ever won an election
on the grounds. I'm consistent. There's

468
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:59.679
nothing wrong with changing your mind.
There are change circumstances. There is nothing

469
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:02.679
wrong with gigging back a bad bill. I think it shows flexibility and compromise.

470
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.599
He's just got to understand that this
is going to kill him, and

471
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.239
I don't think he does. Okay, So I got two questions for you

472
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:15.480
one question easy, and I'm you
know, there are only two candidates that

473
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:20.079
I can tell right now in the
Republican Party running as if they're running in

474
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:28.119
a Republican primary meeting fits flying once
Donald Trump, and the other is former

475
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:36.440
New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. He's
running. Yeah, well that's the lesson

476
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.719
and back to she's going to ask
you to the question. Peter asked me

477
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:44.360
a couple of questions. Back,
No, just santis can't wait. Chris

478
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:49.360
Christie is the example when your time
is now, you better take it.

479
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:53.400
Because when he was running and I
would have supported him, turns out would

480
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:57.360
have been a mistake because he was
listening to the Wall Street Journal on immigration

481
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.400
and many other things. But remember
he was, you know, the Golden

482
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:07.039
Boy when he was when he was
really going after the public sector unions in

483
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:10.639
New Jury. That was brave,
it was smart. It was a crucial

484
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.880
issue. People I know called it
in Hollywood called it Chris Christie porn.

485
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.960
They would begin meetings or sessions because
they want to go on YouTube just to

486
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:24.280
watch him yell at teachers unions.
UM. So my second second, much

487
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:28.920
is this right now? Um,
if you're smart, you're di santists.

488
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.360
You're probably trying to pivot quickly to
away from the stuff that you're not going

489
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.159
to win on and back to all
the brilliant stuff you did and the trolling

490
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:38.360
you did with immigration, which is
he's doing an inherited speech I think right

491
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:45.360
today talking about sending illegals to Martha's
vineyard. That's the first time that the

492
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:52.480
that anybody cared about illegal immigration on
the left. Isn't it possible, just

493
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:58.079
possible that when people go in to
vote, they're not it's not gonna be

494
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:00.119
an isolated in the general, I
mean not isolated vote the way it is

495
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:05.000
and you know, a ballot initiatives
or judges or things like that in statewides.

496
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:07.880
It's in general they're gonna on balance
say, well, you know what,

497
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:09.199
he might build a wall, and
he might get tough on crime,

498
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:15.039
and I will live to fight abortion
another day. Is that possible? Oh

499
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:19.559
my gosh. I hope so,
oh my god, because he is so

500
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:23.639
perfect other than this, really really
so fantastic. And by the way,

501
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.719
he isn't just trolling on immigration,
No, I agree, I mean you

502
00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.079
know what I meant though, that
was mentioned about him because his crime and

503
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:34.480
immigration are the issues Republicans win on. Please keep talking about it and stop

504
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:39.039
talking about abortion. Republicans um he
when after winning re election getting a supermajority,

505
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:45.239
he introduced an amazing immigration series of
proposals that he is going to push

506
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:50.679
through the legislature and standing up to
donors on it, which is which is

507
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:54.360
quite brave. There are a lot
of agricultural interests in Florida. It's huge

508
00:37:54.440 --> 00:38:00.119
ag stay um and needless to say, the like like the slave owners,

509
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:05.840
they want their cheap labor. So
it is a very powerful interest group to

510
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:09.480
stand up to. And yet and
still you still pushing e verify across the

511
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:15.760
state, all kinds of great ideas
on checking not accepting driver's licenses from states

512
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:21.039
that give drivers licenses to illegal So
it's just I mean a point point point

513
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:24.199
point why he didn't force the Florida
legislature to push that through. First,

514
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:31.199
No, let's start with the Republican
assistant Suicide Acts. And Charlie wants to

515
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:36.119
come in with what I'm sure will
be an extremely perceptive question that will frame

516
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.360
everything up and allow you to sum
up everything you have to say. I

517
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:46.679
have a light question first, is
does Santis likable? I think so?

518
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.239
I mean, I've met him,
I met his people, I've seen him

519
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:59.480
speak. There's nothing creepy about them, which they're kind of was with Mitt

520
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:00.880
Romney, he was just I mean, I liked Met Romney, but he

521
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:04.360
was a dork, and not everybody
likes a dork. Um, what's his

522
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.519
name? Blake Arizona? Too much? Can I put the question another?

523
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.039
And then I will shut up because
it's Charlie. I'm sure Charlie will ask

524
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:14.519
a brilliant question. So this puts
things very, very crudely. But as

525
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:16.559
you know extremely well, they're two
basic ways of running for president. One

526
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:20.880
is the Ronald Reagan approach. Vote
for me, I'm one of you and

527
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.440
the others. The Mit Romney approach, also the Hillary Clinton approach. Vote

528
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:30.639
for me, I'm smarter than you. Where's the santis? Okay, I

529
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:35.440
reject that characterization of Romney, but
um no, I mean it's the stuff

530
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:42.519
I think, especially right now,
Americans are feeling so beaten down and losing,

531
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.559
losing, losing, the transgender stuff, the CRT, the endless attacks

532
00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:52.000
on white people and white males and
guns. To have this governor winning,

533
00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:54.480
winning, winning, When I've watched
his speeches, it's funny um, and

534
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:59.159
I think he can he can fix
this. The parts of his Santis's speeches

535
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.519
I hate are beginning and the end, because that's when he does the bs

536
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:08.119
like campaigns speak and we will never
stop or I don't know, whatever the

537
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:15.239
nonsense cliches are. The second he
gets onto policy, he's not only engaged,

538
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:16.559
but you just you could be,
you know, trying to run an

539
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.800
errand you have to sit on your
bed and watch the speech because his wins

540
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:25.360
on policy and his thinking behind it, it's really interesting. It's really engaging,

541
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.599
and I mean, I think that's
the the Glenn Youngan appeal. Give

542
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:36.199
Americans issues to vote on, and
they'll vote on them. We just need

543
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:42.280
our leaders and our conservative media Fox
news talk radio to please stop talking about

544
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:46.840
the stupid stuff. Please please please
stop. Yes, I leve in Florida

545
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:52.159
too, although I'm sure you're a
lot more plugged in than I am,

546
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:57.159
and I am enjoyed, but go
ahead, all right. Well, I

547
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.360
have enjoyed him as governor. I
think he's been a terrific governor. A

548
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:04.559
very small number of things I objected
to, but in the grand scheme of

549
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:13.199
things, they don't matter. Why
do you think We're seeing Floridian congressman after

550
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:19.519
Floridian congressman endorsing Trump instead of the
santiss I know the Scantist is not in

551
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:23.800
the race, but Thomas Massey didn't
care, Chiproy didn't care. Some people

552
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:29.360
have said this is because Decantists doesn't
call him up himself. He doesn't rub

553
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:31.880
shoulders, he doesn't do that part
of politics very well, whereas Trump will

554
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:36.039
call people on his cell phone and
say, Hi, will you endorse me?

555
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:37.519
Do you need in a thing?
I'm sorry to hear you broke your

556
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:40.920
foot? I mean, is this
a problem or is this media nonsense?

557
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:49.480
I think that's media nonsense. I
mean, I do hate to insult other

558
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:53.840
Republicans or elected Republicans at all,
but I think if you look at the

559
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:59.840
list of Republicans who have endorsed Trump, they're they're the equivalent of R A

560
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:05.400
O UM. They're They're not the
ones you necessarily want endorsing. They are

561
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:07.079
kind of the crazy ones. Now. I like some of the stuff crazy

562
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:15.000
people on our side do, um, but they aren't our impressive Republicans.

563
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.760
Thomas Massey as our impressive Republican.
Instantly, I just had a one hour

564
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:22.239
interview with him I put up on
substack. Oh my gosh, that man

565
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.880
is great. Right, So that's
somebody you like, and he's endorsed to

566
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:34.280
Sciantist and he's probably gonna be the
next senator from Kentucky hopefully soon. All

567
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.320
right, so and um, uh
we know you gotta go. Uh before

568
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:44.519
we go, substack, tell me
about substack. Let's get a substack um

569
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.320
plug in here right now. Well, it's fantastic, And I mean,

570
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:53.599
you're a substack, substa and culture
dot subsac dot com. And the reason

571
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.800
I went to it was because of
all the censorship on Twitter. Um sub

572
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.599
stack. It's lots of fun on
I put up columns, random thoughts,

573
00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:07.400
things that would be suppressed and shadow
band on Twitter videos. I mean,

574
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:13.360
the video with the Thomas Massey was
fantastic. That was this week. I'd

575
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:16.760
do Heather McDonald a lot, Amy
Wax, the most Dangerous woman in America.

576
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:21.519
I did a couple with John Lott
with guns being in the news.

577
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.760
I'm doing a few repeats because I
realized right before I do the videos,

578
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:29.639
I don't really just want to talk
to somebody to talk to somebody. I

579
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:31.559
want to talk to smart people and
I don't care if I have to repeat

580
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:37.679
myself, oh sometimes regularly with smart
liberal Mickey couse. But if I could

581
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:40.920
just segue to one thing that's really
driving me crazy, and I think people

582
00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:45.719
who even aren't on Twitter should care
about it. And that is how Twitter

583
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:52.559
has gone from being the world's marketplace
of ideas to utter censorship. We know

584
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:57.360
what the old regime did, and
Elon is, if anything, making it

585
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:02.280
worse the removal of blue check marks, which the sole purpose of that was

586
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:07.679
to prove you really are Bob Dole, You really are Thomas Masse, you

587
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:10.400
really are the New York Police Department. You just pulled Bob Dole out for

588
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:15.679
Okay, called Rob Long. You're
the one who got me my Twitter handle

589
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.519
because true there was a fake and
culter on Twitter. Well you got it

590
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.199
for me, got the blue check
it. I'm very powerful. And by

591
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:28.000
the way, approximately once a month
there is a fake and culter that happens

592
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.000
to come to my attention and I
need to report that person. Okay,

593
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.679
so the old regime turned it into
oh this is a reward for liberals.

594
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.519
Okay, don't do that anymore.
But let us be able to distinguish am

595
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:45.239
I attacking AOC or AM I attacking
some idiot right wing meme creator who's pretending

596
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.880
to be AOC, so that he's
ruined. And the main thing I think

597
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:54.119
he's ruined. I mean, it's
stupid to be driving liberals from off of

598
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:57.599
Twitter. The whole point is we
want to see them so we can tweak

599
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:00.480
them. But the biggest way I
think he's I don't think he's removed the

600
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:06.039
shadow banning. Um is that to
show how um, there will be no

601
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.440
shadow banning. We won't throw people
off Twitter. He brings back on the

602
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:15.679
worst people, the Nazis, the
Donald Trumps, the Alex jones Is.

603
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:21.480
But you know smart right wingers who
are saying uncomfortable truths. Um, oh

604
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:24.480
say Jared Taylor. Nope, he's
still banned. We're not going to let

605
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:29.400
you hear from any smart people that
are not safe for work. But whoa,

606
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.039
we'll put the Nazis back on.
Thanks Elon, Thanks, that's great,

607
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:36.199
That's just what we wanted. Okay, So that was the question about

608
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:39.480
substack. So we're going to make
sure that's why everybody's going to substack,

609
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.519
no censorship, no ads. It
shows up in your inbox loads of fun.

610
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:46.480
And I have a lot of terrific
kind and you're having a lot of

611
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:51.280
fun with it. That's and that's
some. I'm a substack, I'm an

612
00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:54.559
an colder sub subscriber, and thank
you for joining us. Thank you.

613
00:45:54.840 --> 00:46:00.000
Um, take a deep breath,
at least gonna be okay, ganforesay yeah,

614
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:02.559
exactly right, see you soon,
and thank you, thank you.

615
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.199
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But we have to thank ball and
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It's a great product and they've been
a great supporter. We are very lucky

640
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again to have Debrah Saunders as a
syndicated columnist, a fellow with a Discovery

641
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.320
Institute's Chapman Center for Citizen Leadership.
You can find most of her work at

642
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:57.960
the Creator's Syndicate. She was a
White House correspondent during the Trump administration.

643
00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:04.280
She is now writing and thinking and
thinking and writing about the press. So

644
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.159
I got to ask, first of
all, welcome, thanks for joining us.

645
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:14.920
Thank you for having me seven hundred
eighty seven million dollars to settle a

646
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:25.199
very what looked like a lawsuit that
was going against Fox Although who knows is

647
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:30.400
there anything you can take away from
this other than people will pay a lot

648
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:37.159
of money to not take the stand. We live in a corporate age,

649
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:42.400
so there was a time when you
would have seen Fox be pro First Amendment

650
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:45.119
where journalists, we're going to fight
this. We're not going to have anybody

651
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.480
tell us that we can't do our
jobs, which is what this lawsuit is

652
00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:52.119
all about. The dominion is going
after Fox News for reporting on the election.

653
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:57.880
Were there people on Fox News had
said things that were ridiculous? Absolutely,

654
00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:01.039
and dominions free to say them and
they are seeing them. But going

655
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:06.039
after Fox News, that's just that's
going after the money, right, and

656
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:08.880
it's going after the headlines, and
it makes Dominion not look like a bunch

657
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:13.039
of greedy people asking for a lot
more money than they're worth, but as

658
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:19.840
if they're they're champions for something.
And unfortunately the news media are just incredibly

659
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:23.000
bad and they're reporting on this.
You don't really see the other side.

660
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:30.119
You can read long stories about this
case and everybody is dumping on Fox News

661
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:36.960
and nobody's question in this lawsuit.
It's really upsetting. And you know Rupert

662
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:38.960
Murdoch, well, he's used to
paying off people in lawsuits, right,

663
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:44.199
so I guess it's no big for
him. But this is not a good

664
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.639
thing for journalism, and I wish
more people understood that. So the pushback

665
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:52.840
on that I know Peter wants get
is that they were reckless, that they

666
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:57.559
that as a corporate policy, they
knew that this was false and they went

667
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.079
ahead. They didn't just say the
election of stolen, because of course there's

668
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.159
no victim there if that's the case. They said that this company, these

669
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:08.480
two companies Smart Manic and Dominion,
stole it so and they knew that that

670
00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:14.280
wasn't true. So what what punishment, if any should that should the organization

671
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.679
suffer? Well, there were people
who said that on Fox News, but

672
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:24.000
most of Fox News reporting was Joe
Biden won. So there, I mean,

673
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:28.480
you can find that there were all
people who said that, so can

674
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:34.960
I. As usual the mirror within
the first sentence you speak, I find

675
00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:37.400
myself swooning and in love with you
all over again. But let me just

676
00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:42.679
menas careful, sell close the door. I don't want to or over here,

677
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.639
so I want to Here's I haven't
studied this, I haven't followed it

678
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:52.679
closely. You have. Isn't it? Isn't it? Roughly speaking? The

679
00:50:52.760 --> 00:51:01.400
case shouldn't It shouldn't matter if Tucker
Carlson in a private email says Rudy Giuliani

680
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:07.760
is nuts and Sidney Powell is lying
through her teeth. The fact that Rudy

681
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.320
Giuliani and Sydney Powell, both of
whom were close to a former president of

682
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:15.159
the United States who was contesting the
results of the election. The fact that

683
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:20.079
those people claimed it may have been
a crazy claim we now know it was

684
00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:24.559
a crazy claim, but that they
claimed that the company responsible for some voting

685
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:31.880
machines was in on an elaborate that
was news. Yes, that wasn't That

686
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:37.400
wasn't some sort of conspiracy to do
down dominion or overturn the reason, or

687
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:43.480
even simply to throw red meat to
the audience. That was news. If

688
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:47.519
it's if you can sue Fox News
for putting on Rudy Giuliani, you ought

689
00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:53.599
to be able to sue CNN for
putting on Jim Comey. They can,

690
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:59.000
they can Sueciate, and they can, and now they can. Isn't that?

691
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:04.280
I mean it would be a completely
different matter if Sean Hannity, Well,

692
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.360
maybe Sean Hannity did so. I
guess what I'm saying is I'm not

693
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:13.800
sure that there's a Yes. It's
tremendously embarrassing, and everybody's chortling and chuckling

694
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:17.280
and have a wild, impish glee
that Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingram and Sean

695
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:22.239
Hannity are exchanging emails saying these people
are idiots, they're fools. Donald Trump,

696
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:24.639
I can't stand Donald Trump while they
go on the air and pretend to

697
00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:30.440
take these people seriously. I understand
that that's embarrassing, but the distinction would

698
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:37.679
be between reporting news and trying to
push a narrative themselves. And I don't

699
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.199
see this is my memory. I
don't. I don't see that Fox News

700
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:45.960
championed any particular narrative. They were
reporting news and there were crazy people in

701
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:50.199
the news at that time. Am
I right in my general understanding? Am

702
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:52.199
I missing something? You're completely right? And let me just just you were

703
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:59.000
talking about what Tucker Carlson's text to
his producer Alex Fiefer. That's right,

704
00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:04.280
Okay, So that has nothing to
do with this lawsuit. It's just to

705
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:08.599
embarrass Fox News. I mean,
if you read this one hundred plus whatever,

706
00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:15.719
it is a statement that the dominion
put out. It's crack for journalists

707
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:21.360
there, it is. They're just
giving them everything they want. They're embarrassing

708
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:24.840
Fox News, They're embarrassing the Fox
talent. But it has nothing to do

709
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:30.199
with this defamatory lawsuit, right,
It's just they're just trying to I mean,

710
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:37.480
the fixation that other networks and major
newspapers have with Fox News is unholy

711
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:49.039
and this is the spawn of that
unholyness. Charlie, So I am,

712
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:53.840
as you all know, a big
First Amendment guy. Explain to me why

713
00:53:53.880 --> 00:54:00.000
this doesn't fit neatly within our existing
libel laws, the libel laws in England

714
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:05.280
and our a disgrace because they essentially
look only to the veracity of a statement

715
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.840
and they don't consider anything else.
The libel laws in the United States add

716
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:13.039
some steps. They say, you
have to know what you're saying is false,

717
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:16.440
and in the case of a newspaper
or a broadcaster, you have to

718
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:21.239
know what it is that you're publishing
or echoing or platforming is false, and

719
00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:27.880
you have to do it to damage
the target. Is there not an argument

720
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:34.199
that both of those conditions were met
here? Fox knew that what they were

721
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:39.599
platforming and echoing and broadcasting and promogating
was false. They knew that, and

722
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:43.199
then they did it. Why did
they do it? Because they wanted to

723
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:47.079
appeal to their audience and take back
market share from Newsmax. I why am

724
00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:52.880
I wrong? Okay, Well,
for one thing, Ben Smith has a

725
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:55.639
piece in The Atlantic today about Russia
Gate and how yes it was a total

726
00:54:55.800 --> 00:55:00.480
fraud and yes it was a problem, but he'd do it again anyway.

727
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:05.800
If somebody handed him the dossier he
would print he would he would print it

728
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:09.039
again, but with different caveats.
Right, And this was a bogus story.

729
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:17.960
But nobody sued BuzzFeed for this,
and nobody did it because it is

730
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:22.679
Ben Smith argued in his pies today, Hey, this dossier was news.

731
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:24.360
Everybody knew about it. Now I
didn't know about it. I don't know

732
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:29.480
if you guys knew about it in
October. I mean before he didn't know.

733
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:31.119
Yeah, that's right in California.
I didn't know that. So he

734
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:35.079
acts so that this was something that
everybody knew about. So we had this

735
00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:39.280
um that he had to do it. But I don't have a problem with

736
00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:45.679
dominion suing certain people for saying certain
things. Who are Fox people? I

737
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:50.159
mean I think there could be a
case from Maria bardar Romo or Janine Pierro,

738
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:55.920
But Fox News network that they were
they were covering news stories and they

739
00:55:55.960 --> 00:56:00.719
had and they had Sidney Paulan,
so did other networks. They broadcast things

740
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:07.039
that Sidney Powell said that we're very
questionable. So the idea they're just picking

741
00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:09.880
on one network and we all know
why. It's where the big pockets are

742
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:15.719
in everybody in the media will be
rooting for you if you go after Fox

743
00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:19.119
News. Yeah. But there's a
couple of problems with that. The first

744
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:24.280
is that if people had sued BuzzFeed
News under American law, they'd have had

745
00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:28.119
a case of what you're saying is
correct, the fact that they didn't doesn't

746
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:35.639
change that. The second is that
Fox did not invite a random guest on

747
00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:43.159
and then jump in horror when he
or she said these things. It was

748
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:46.320
not like Twitter, where we have
Section two thirty in place, because they

749
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:50.199
don't know what I could tweet in
ten seconds, they don't pre review it.

750
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:55.480
They knew over a period of time
that they were broadcasting and in some

751
00:56:55.519 --> 00:57:04.039
cases, including in segments that were
preapproved and pre written lies that we're based

752
00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:08.559
on factual claims that were false.
I think you'll write about massive bias in

753
00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:12.199
the media. Of course you are, And you're right about the hypocrisy of

754
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:15.119
the press, and you're right about
all the people who should be upset about

755
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:19.000
this but on't. And you're right
that this works in one direction. But

756
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:22.559
I'm not sure this is a violation
of American libel law, is it?

757
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.760
Well? I mean, I think
the way this case would have worked out

758
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:30.440
if there wasn't a settlement is they
would have won in the courtroom and lost

759
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:36.159
on appeal. Again, I'm sorry, they would have won in the court.

760
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:37.920
They would have won in the courtroom
and lost and lost on appeal.

761
00:57:38.360 --> 00:57:43.079
And again, there ares lawsuits to
people who said things, But to go

762
00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:47.079
after a news network for reporting things
that were said, that crosses a different

763
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:54.239
line. So again, if if
if if Domini wants to sue Maria Bardaromo

764
00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:59.719
Virginie Piero for things that they said, fine, But to go after this

765
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:02.880
working I mean, if you read
through this, uh, the document that

766
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:07.079
they put out again, it's exceedingly
embarrassing. I just don't know what the

767
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:14.440
fact that that Tucker Carlson thought Sidney
Paul was an idiot or nuts or something

768
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:16.480
whatever, whatever the exact word was, I don't know what that has to

769
00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:22.039
do with this. Well, if
somebody wrote an op head in The New

770
00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:25.039
York Times saying that I was a
serial killer and then an editor published it

771
00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:30.960
and it was subsequently revealed that the
editor knew that the piece was not true,

772
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:35.159
that's the standard that we need to
be met on the New York Times

773
00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:37.599
v. Sullivan. So that,
I think is why it matters. Well,

774
00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:43.159
again, I would just say that
we're in this um that when you

775
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:46.559
look at what this lawsuit is about, the lawsuit is going after a network

776
00:58:46.599 --> 00:58:51.880
for having people on I mean,
if you read the documents they're angry that

777
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:54.880
they had people on who made arguments
that they didn't like. It's And by

778
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:58.840
the way, did dominion get hurt. No, Dominion's making more money than

779
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:01.760
ever right, worth one point six
billion dollars. No, it is not.

780
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:07.960
So we all know that the financial
basis of this is crazy. There's

781
00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:13.920
no sign that dominion has been hurt. Now, I understand reputational damage,

782
00:59:14.119 --> 00:59:17.920
but dominions. Dominions going to come
out okay with this. That doesn't mean

783
00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:22.360
it's okay for people to say false
things. But most of the stuff we're

784
00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:24.920
talking about here, they're not talking
about what was said about dominion. They're

785
00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:29.239
talking about what was said about the
twenty twenty election, and that's a different

786
00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:35.199
thing. And they're really going after
Fox News for for for what was said

787
00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:38.960
about the election. And they're going
after people who on air said Biden one.

788
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:44.960
So if they're saying over and over
again Biden one, Trump lost,

789
00:59:45.360 --> 00:59:49.880
and then you can cherry pick a
few sentences that say otherwise, a lot

790
00:59:49.920 --> 00:59:52.960
of people are in trouble, I
can tell you, Or I would assume

791
00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:55.880
that if CNN were under the same
kind of scrutiny and somebody got their hands

792
00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:00.440
on all of their internal documents that
you'd find a lot of the thinks,

793
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:04.360
people questioning stories. And again you
have to go back to the dossier.

794
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:08.039
People knew that was not a good
story, and they put it out anyway,

795
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:12.599
and that somehow that again not a
basis for a lawsuit. Yeah,

796
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:15.880
the idea that the standard, it
seems to me there's an embryonic standard here,

797
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:22.480
and that standard is that report that
if you're in television news print maybe

798
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:25.280
well print is dead anyway, So
let's set that aside. If you're in

799
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.639
television news, here's the new rule. You're not allowed to put a guest

800
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:34.199
on unless you know that that guest
is going to make claims that are verifiable.

801
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:38.679
Well, that's that's just not the
job to put it. One just

802
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:44.440
a slightly different turn on it.
When Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell appeared on

803
01:00:44.440 --> 01:00:49.840
Fox News making their crazy claims,
they had an effect on me. I

804
01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:55.920
thought, Wow, the whole Trump
organization has just lost. It was valuable

805
01:00:57.039 --> 01:01:01.280
information in a working democracy. If
they had been suppressed, if they sorry,

806
01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:05.400
what Rudy's claiming is obviously untrue.
We can't let him talk about that

807
01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:08.239
anymore. That would have created much
more suspicion. I think, all right,

808
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:13.559
so that it was, it had
value. It was a totally defendable

809
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:19.079
newsroom judgment to put Rudy Giuliani and
Sidney Powell on. I don't know about

810
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:22.239
Maria Bartiro. I guess that's a
set where it would make sense to sue

811
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:25.360
Maria Barti Roma. Okay, So
here's my question to you, dep If

812
01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:29.800
I'm and I don't mean to lead
the witness here, but if if you

813
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:35.320
feel as I feel, that there's
a kind of latent, new and unreasonable

814
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:40.880
standard embedded in the result of this
case, what does it mean for American

815
01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:45.000
journalism? What does it mean for
television news? It's just the double standard.

816
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:47.960
I mean, that's the thing about
this again. You look at you

817
01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:52.320
look at the Hunter Biden laptop story. Now, this is a case where

818
01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:58.320
basically we had people like Mike Morrell
going saying this is a false document and

819
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:04.079
it was suppressed by the media because
of this bogus accusation right about. I

820
01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:07.119
mean, basically, we know the
laptop story was pretty true. The current

821
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:10.960
and Secretary of State said it wasn't
true. Yeah, what but and what

822
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:15.199
do you do not report that?
Can? I mean one of the things

823
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:19.480
that the lawsuit makes really clear is
we have to report what both sides are

824
01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:22.800
saying. Are we supposed to say
that the President of the United States and

825
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:25.159
his campaign, that we're supposed to
censor them? I mean, we know

826
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:30.559
how much how distrustful people are the
media, what happens if they're not airing

827
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:32.599
this, And and I think Fox
did a pretty good job of explaining to

828
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:37.280
people how that story worked. And
you can cherry picks sometimes when they did

829
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:42.119
things that were wrong and and they
get reputational damage, except I actually think

830
01:02:42.159 --> 01:02:45.360
their audience wants that. I think
they're people who want to be lied to.

831
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:50.920
And that's another issue that the Fox
really pretty much understood. That's what

832
01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:55.719
That's the one thing that those texts
that came out during Discovery reveal was that

833
01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:00.239
people who were running the shows,
of the stars of these shows knew that

834
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:05.800
it was false, but they also
knew that the audience wasn't going to And

835
01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:08.800
that's the one thing under American libel
lawyer you're not allowed to do. It's

836
01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:12.840
not that you have to know that
everyone you put on air is going to

837
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:15.480
tell the truth, is that you
can't put people on the air if you

838
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:19.320
know for a fact that they're going
to lie with your blessing. Okay,

839
01:03:19.480 --> 01:03:22.079
is that what this lawson is about? Because I could swear when I was

840
01:03:22.119 --> 01:03:27.840
watching election coverage that they said Joe
Biden won and that they did not buy

841
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.280
into all these phony claims. Did
they air them? Did they have people

842
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:35.800
who said that, Yes, but
they were not doing stories about they weren't.

843
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:39.559
Fox News was not putting out stories
saying that dominion was wrong. The

844
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.599
dominion was this problem. You have
random people who say that, not all

845
01:03:45.679 --> 01:03:50.079
random, But what are they supposed
to do? They supposed to We just

846
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:52.840
saw this, we're seeing it right
now with the laptop story, where people

847
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:57.639
decide that they have to squelch something
because they've decided it's not true instead of

848
01:03:57.719 --> 01:04:00.880
letting be aired out in public and
people make up their own minds. That's

849
01:04:00.880 --> 01:04:03.679
what I thought we did, That's
what I thought the news was about.

850
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:08.559
And this lawsuit is trying to tell
people, no, you can't do that.

851
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:10.320
So where does this go? We
know where it goes. There's a

852
01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:14.719
double standard. We know we know
that the left can do whatever they want

853
01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:18.719
and break all the standards that you're
talking about. We know that that New

854
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:23.400
York Times Washington Posting, and they
can all break all that and nobody cares.

855
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:26.800
And there's only going to be one
place that's going to pay for and

856
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:31.320
that's Fox News. Yead, thank
you for joining us. Than before you

857
01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:34.679
go, I want to make sure
everybody knows that you're a limited series podcast

858
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:40.239
series with us covering Trump. It's
there. It's great, like a lot

859
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:45.559
of good old a lot of good
worst stories. And um my guess is

860
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:47.400
that you we might be able to
convince you to do another one coming up

861
01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:53.039
for twenty twenty four. I would
love to twist my arm. Please,

862
01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:56.519
I'll twist Jarmed some more. Thanks, thanks for joining us, Thank you,

863
01:04:56.719 --> 01:04:59.360
thank you all. I still miss
you here in California. Oh I

864
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:03.719
miss you and I missed that room. That is Stanford, right, this

865
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:06.159
Stanford? No, that's Dartmouth.
No, no, this is an East

866
01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:09.719
Coast room. There's nothing like Oh, it's just a backing though. He's

867
01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:12.440
it's fake. It's it's fake.
I mean the spare bedroom. There's it's

868
01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:16.559
a fanteken. There's a dog behind
me in reality scene. Yes, okay,

869
01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:21.119
tell we was to stop sending me
torturing, to stop torturing texts about

870
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:26.079
how lovely it is in Virginia.
Okay, I shall do that. He's

871
01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:29.320
my tech guy. He's sitting right
there. Okay, was knock it off.

872
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:31.760
Okay, but he can't hear because
I have. That's good. Thank

873
01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:34.679
you for having me, Thanks for
coming to soon. Okay, bye bye

874
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:40.800
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875
01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:44.519
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877
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:50.079
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878
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:56.119
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879
01:05:56.239 --> 01:06:00.760
kind of health insurance thing where it
was clearly a necessary thing and the health

880
01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:04.079
insured and didn't felt the form right. I've been doing this and it's incredibly

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01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:45.119
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895
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.239
It's all when we're join crowdhealth dot
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898
01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:24.000
dot com and we thank crowdhealth for
sponsoring the Ricochet podcast. Um wow,

899
01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:26.880
we actually this is a this is
a substant podcast. I think we delivered

900
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:30.920
value. I really do think we
delivered some value. Um before we go.

901
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:32.480
Are you sure? Are you telling
the truth? I am? I

902
01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:36.599
really think that. I do really
think that, um, Because if we

903
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:42.480
haven't discussed it before, I had
the cook standard, it's not the cook

904
01:07:42.559 --> 01:07:45.920
standard. The reason I've got there
is the name of this view, though,

905
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:53.400
is why I absolutely agree with Dad
that this is unjustly meet it out.

906
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:58.039
I think it was wrong. For
example, that Sarah Palin lost her

907
01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:03.360
case against The New York Times,
which knew when it published the lie once

908
01:08:03.400 --> 01:08:08.480
again that she remind us of the
facts of the case. Well quickly,

909
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:15.000
there was a crazy guy who murdered
a bunch of people and shot a congresswoman,

910
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:19.840
Gabby Giffords. And this back in
twenty eleven was inexplicably and disgracefully blamed

911
01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:25.199
on Sarah Palin because on her campaign
website she had a target. Of course,

912
01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:28.319
we use Marshall language in politics all
the time. We called him campaigns

913
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:31.000
for goodness sake, she got blamed
for this. This is outrageous. It

914
01:08:31.119 --> 01:08:33.960
turned out that the guy who did
this, I won't name him as I

915
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:39.159
don't name mass shooters. The guy
who did this had no connection to Sarah

916
01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:42.159
Palin. I'd never looked at Sarah
Palin's website. It was in no way

917
01:08:42.199 --> 01:08:46.359
inspired by Sarah Palin. Now,
when The Times originally blamed this on Sarah

918
01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:50.039
Palin, it was protected under the
First Amendment, But after it had become

919
01:08:50.079 --> 01:08:57.520
abundantly clear and published a retraction,
it knew And yet once again I forget

920
01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.199
to hear it was it repeated the
line. It just included it like one

921
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:04.159
of those things that just iterate over
to Sarah Palin who did this, and

922
01:09:04.279 --> 01:09:10.119
she sued them. Now, I
agree with deb it's outrageous that Fox got

923
01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:14.840
this settlement. Although they did settled, it wasn't actually litigated, and in

924
01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:17.439
court Sarah Palin lost. But what
I'm saying, as someone who is a

925
01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:21.319
big free speech guidants very expansive libel
laws, is that I think that is

926
01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:27.600
a good threshold for libel. When
you knowingly print a lie determined to hurt

927
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:31.359
someone's reputation, then yeah, that
actually is a good standard for libel.

928
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:33.920
And Sarah Palin should have got justice
in that case. She didn't, And

929
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:42.239
I'm not convinced that Fox is innocent
under our libel laws. Ten second rebuttal.

930
01:09:42.439 --> 01:09:47.199
The ten second rebuttal would be,
I agree with deb that it may

931
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:51.640
make sense. I haven't read through
all the reporting on the case, but

932
01:09:51.680 --> 01:09:56.199
it may very well make sense under
the cook standard that you just outlined,

933
01:09:56.520 --> 01:10:01.399
also known as the first Amendment,
for dominion to have gone after Maria bard

934
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:06.479
Romo, possibly also one or two
other figures, but not for Fox not

935
01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:11.079
to go after Fox News as distinct
from The New York Times, which repeated

936
01:10:11.119 --> 01:10:15.720
the law in an editorial, yes, which is formally understood to speak four

937
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:19.439
the New York Times. That's quite
different. Quite it's not different under the

938
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:24.960
law. Though, if the New
York Times accepts the piece well, no,

939
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:27.640
I mean, I'm well law.
It might be an art, but

940
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:30.199
it's also the law. And if
the New York Times accepts an opad written

941
01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:33.560
by Rob Long and Peter Robinson accusing
me of all sorts of things that I

942
01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:39.800
didn't do, and it knows when
it publishes it that you two are not

943
01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:43.840
telling the truth, then it is
susceptible to be for a lot of times,

944
01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:46.439
if the New York Times reports in
a news story that Rob Long and

945
01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:51.199
Peter Robinson are claiming all kinds of
mad things about Charlie Cook, which the

946
01:10:51.319 --> 01:10:57.520
reporter knows to be untrue. It's
still news that's correct, and that's why

947
01:10:57.560 --> 01:11:01.680
people say allegedly all the time.
So that's why I am drawing the distinction.

948
01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:03.960
All right, that will never happen. And here's why, because The

949
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:06.840
New York Times pays about two hundred
and seventy five dollars for that kind of

950
01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:11.319
op ed and that's just not enough
to get me, Peter does. I

951
01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:14.439
wouldn't even I wouldn't even gin up
some lies about Charlie Cook for two hundred

952
01:11:14.439 --> 01:11:16.359
dollars, So it would have to
be more. But Maria about Drama has

953
01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:20.000
a show on Fox that is produced. People sit around a table, they

954
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:23.720
work out what's going to be said. They figured into a tele prompted,

955
01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:28.880
they put the camera in position,
and their platform it and under current libel

956
01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:32.319
law, which is fairly liberal in
a good sense in the world, that

957
01:11:32.439 --> 01:11:38.119
includes that is included. You know, that's that's so much. Well,

958
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:40.600
all right, if we're going to
go at this, do you remember exactly

959
01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:45.800
what Maria Bardi Romo said? No? Okay, So the distinction I'm trying

960
01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:53.159
to draw is between reporting something that
even very loosely counts as news and instead

961
01:11:54.239 --> 01:12:00.880
asserting something as in the with it
in one's own person, so to speak.

962
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:03.359
Right, if Maria barda Roma says
today, Rudy Julian it was at

963
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:08.560
again, that's one thing. If
she says, of course, okay,

964
01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:11.680
that's all that that distinction strikes me
as important and I'm just not sure where

965
01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:14.520
it fell in this case, well
we are not going to solve that now.

966
01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:15.880
No, But if Charlie and I
would like to go at this for

967
01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:18.800
at least another here's where you can
go at this. You can go at

968
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:23.560
this in person in the Twin Cities
on April twenty second and still Water,

969
01:12:23.680 --> 01:12:27.560
so still Water meet up for Ricochet. There you can. There's another Winston

970
01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:30.760
Salem meet up that Randy set up
again, which is Randy's MVP of meetups

971
01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:35.039
in Winston Salem. Mid July,
Matt Ballzer is asking for RSVPs for the

972
01:12:35.079 --> 01:12:39.399
annual German Fest meet up in Milwaukee. So that's the last week in July.

973
01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:42.199
That's gonna be fun. All of
these meetups are available to you if

974
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:45.079
you're a member of Ricochet, and
if they don't work for some reason and

975
01:12:45.119 --> 01:12:47.520
you're not a member. Here's what
you do. You just join and then

976
01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:51.439
you announce on the member page,
Hey how about a meet up here or

977
01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:55.680
there or somewhere, and you will
get people to show up. That's the

978
01:12:55.680 --> 01:13:00.479
one thing that members of Ricochet.
They show up a lot of other stuff

979
01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:03.439
going on, but I think you
know this. We've we've we've hit the

980
01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:08.239
two big issues. We've done enough. The podcast was brought to you by

981
01:13:08.279 --> 01:13:12.000
Ball and Branch and Crowdhealth, so
please support them for supporting us and join

982
01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:15.119
Ricochet today. Ricochet dot com go
and join. Take a minute to leave

983
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:18.560
a five star review, only a
five star review at on Apple Podcasts,

984
01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:23.600
because that's the kind of algorithmy thing
that they use and helps to get people

985
01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:27.760
to discover our podcast, not just
not just this one, but the other

986
01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:33.199
ones we do, including with depths
And I guess I guess that's the clothes.

987
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:36.800
Well, what can I say?
So we need James Beck because I

988
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:42.520
am clearly very rusty this But in
the meantime, um, we'll see you

989
01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:45.800
next week, Fels next week.
Boys, This is Stephen Hayward of the

990
01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:50.399
power Line Blog and the power Lines
Show on Ricochet, inviting you to tune

991
01:13:50.439 --> 01:13:55.560
in each weekend too, our three
Whiskey Happy Hour where John, You and

992
01:13:55.600 --> 01:14:00.479
I, along with the pseudonymous Lucretia
power Lines International Woman the Mystery, breakdown

993
01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:05.600
the week's top stories and continue our
long running arguments about first principles and also

994
01:14:05.680 --> 01:14:11.239
critique the best whiskies available in the
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995
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:15.920
Hour, hosted by Ricochet and found
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996
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:19.239
Ricochet, join the conversation.