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Hey everybody, and welcome to another
episode of My JavaScript Story. This week

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we're talking to Kevin Kreitzer. Exactly. How's my Swiss? Did I do?

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Okay? Yeah? Yeah? Perfect? Is is it a German name?

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Yeah? I think actually it's a
German name. Yes. Nice.

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When I'm building a new product,
G two I is the company that I

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call to help me find a developer
who can build it. G two I

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is a hiring platform run by engineers
that matches you with React, React Native,

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graph, QL and mobile developers that
you can trust. Whether you are

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a new company building your first product
or an established company that wants additional engineering

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help, G two I has the
talent you need to accomplish your goals.

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Go to G two I dot co
to learn more about what G two I

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has to offer. In my experience, G two I has linked me up

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with experienced engineers that can fit my
budget, and the G two I staff

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are friendly and easy to work with. They know how product development and can

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help you find the perfect engineer for
your stack. Go to G two I

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dot co to learn more about G
two I. Well, yeah, we

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had you on episode two hundred and
twenty seven of Adventures in Angular talking about

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source maps in Angular. Yeah,
do you want to just kind of give

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us a quick introduction to who you
are and what you do and all that

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stuff? Yes, for sure.
My name is Kevin Krantzer, as you're

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already introduced, like perfectly. I'm
a freelance front and engineer from Switzerland.

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I'm also a Google developer expert in
Angler, and yeah, basically I love

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Chavascript, I love Angler. So
I also write a lot of blog posts,

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maintain some open source libraries, and
yeah, my free time enjoy snowboarding

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and love to play football. Nice. Now, when you say football,

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you mean what we in the US
called soccer, Yes, exactly, Okay,

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so that's making sure. Yeah,
American food police too brutal. I

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like to watch it. But playing
yeah, well, I am a soccer

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junkie myself. So yeah, okay, which team do you support? Uh?

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Here in the US, I really
supports Rayal Salt Lake okay. And

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and in Europe my favorite team is
Juventus okay, okay, but I am

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somewhat partial to Manchester United as well. I like those guys, Okay.

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Nice. Yeah, I lived in
Italy for two years and so yeah,

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one of these days I'll get to
go back and actually watch Uve play.

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But yeah, I have been to
a soccer match in Europe and it was

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crazy. Okay, which one was
it? It was Verona and Venezia played

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each other. They were both in
Serie A at the time, and yeah,

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people were like lighting stuff on fire
and throwing it onto the field,

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and I mean we're standing there going, holy cow, nobody does this.

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They were throwing rocks at the bus
from the opposing team. It was.

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It was wild. Yeah, yeah, but that's usually I should have going

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there. Yes, it's wild.
Yeah. Some some people who were friends

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of ours, Yeah, they found
they got us tickets to the game,

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and so we went and walked out
of there and going, yeah, this

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is nothing like American sports. Yeah, because if people did any of that

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stuff, the police at haul them
off. But anyway, I don't know

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if it's still that nutty, but
yeah, it was. It was definitely

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a different experience. What team do
you support. I'm a huge Rail Madrid

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fan since I kid like. I
support Real Madrid since years old. So

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nice. Yeah, they're a sister
team to Ray also Lake, so so

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yeah cool. Well let's dive in
and talk about Angular. I love getting

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kind of the personal details. I
don't mind talking about that, so yeah,

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if there's something else to bring up, just do it. But yeah,

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let's talk a little bit about your
programming history for a minute. How

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did you get into programming. Yeah, it was kind of special because I'm

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like usually when you hear about a
lot of programmers, they talk about like,

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Okay, I started to program with
fifteen years, I wrote my first

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program and stuff like that, and
I'm like a little bit from another side

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because I'm now twenty nine years old
and I started to program when I was

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twenty one, so nice late.
But yeah, yeah, I came somehow

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into program It was like by yeah, by accident, I would almost say,

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because after I finished, like high
school, I wanted to do like,

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yeah, in Switzerland, you have
the choice either you do like you

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go to work or you go to
another school. And I wanted to go

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to work. But I was quite
good at at football or at soccer,

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how you say, right back then, and therefore I wanted to do a

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sports school and like I passed there, like the test, so you needed

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to have like a sport level and
also a school level, and I passed

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those tests. But then some yeah, they changed somehow the criterias because skiing

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is quite important in Switzerland, like
they then changed it and wanted to basically

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only have like guys who ski and
therefore I then did like it was too

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late to find a job. So
I then somehow did commercial school, which

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was like my only way out.
And yeah, during commercial commercial school,

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I kind of had like some troubles
because everyone is not so interested in it.

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Why did you what did you learn
at the commercial school? Is that

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like a trade school or it's more
like accounting like French, different languages,

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Yeah, accounting, like economics,
stuff like that. Oh okay, it's

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interested in learning how red flowers?
How you stay is in French? Like

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that was not interesting me at all, so it sounds fascinating to me.

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But yeah, you know, in
economics and yeah, accounting maybe not.

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Yeah it was not so I didn't
like it somehow, but I still passed.

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And one year there I didn't pass
because I was doing like nothing.

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And then yeah, this somehow changed
my entire story because then I thought like,

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okay, what will I do with
my life? And then I changed

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it and yeah I passed and the
last year like quite good, and then

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I needed to go to work for
one year, because you can also do

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like if you do an additional year
of work, you get basically like entrance

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to university. Right, And during
this year of work, I kind of

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discovered that I loved to work with
computers. So I never wrote the program

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before, but I really enjoyed time
on the computer, like creating things.

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Because I was working in a marketing
department, I was creating a lot of

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flyers and a lot of posters and
stuff like that. And then yeah,

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somehow I was thinking what do I
want to study? And then yeah,

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I went to study business information technology, which was like a lot of program

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in there and very cool. Yeah. I also I just came to programming

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because of soccer, basically because otherwise
I would have just made some Yeah,

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went somewhere to work. Well,
soccer is life, so yeah life,

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No, that's awesome, and it's
interesting too, because yeah, we do

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talk to a lot of people that
it's Yeah, well I got into computers

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as a kid, but I talked
to just as many people. I swear

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that it at some point as an
adult. They thought that programming looked at

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or sounded interesting, or you know, they had some opportunity present itself and

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they went for it or you know, all kinds of things like that.

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So as much as I think people
kind of stereotypically think that most programmers come

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into it early, that's not always
the case. And so I like hearing

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the stories where it's I kind of
kind of wound up going through a different

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pattern or whatever. Yeah, Because
also when I arrived there at Business Information

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like at university where I studied business
information technology, so I specifically decided to

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go to this universe because like business
information technology in Switzer, when there are

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different schools, some school focus more
on business and some focus more on programming

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and the technical thought right, And
I was really interesting in this even though

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I never programmed before. I had
no idea what yeah, no idea of

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programming. And when I arrived there, all the guys who were there already

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had some technical background, Like I
was basically one of the only guys that

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had never programmed before. So right
after the first course, she was talking

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about strings and in teachers and floats
and stuff like that, and I was

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like, okay, what is this? So I thought, okay, maybe

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I'm going to leave because I have
no idea what I'm going to do here.

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But then somehow I started to dive
a little bit into it and it

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was super interesting to me, and
yeah, then yeah, just I stick

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to it. And there was the
best decision, I would say, Right,

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So did they teach you JavaScript there
or did they teach you some other

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programming language? No, we started
with Java there, and we basically didn't

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wrote JavaScript in university, like just
a little bit of JavaScript. Yeah,

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but the whole world runs out of
JavaScript now so now, yeah, but

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it was back it was in twenty
eleven, and yeah, yeah, it

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was mainly Java. And the interesting
thing is like, now JavaScript is my

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yeah, my favorite language. I
only code in Chavascript. Back then,

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I didn't like Chavascript at all.
Somehow that was interesting. I didn't like

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to create web applications and stuff like
that. I was more like, okay,

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I like Java. But yeah,
yeah, this has completely changed when

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I went to work. So how
did you wind up making that move to

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JavaScript? Yeah? It started after
university. I went to work, like

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at a Swiss train company, and
I started as a junior Java developer.

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And then when you're a junior I
went to I came to a quite huge

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proach and then they gave me like
one one team member who was kind of

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responsible for me. He was kind
of we told that we called him the

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godfather or my godfather, and like
he was super cool. He was one

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of the most important persons in my
career path, I would say, because

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like the Chave project was huge,
and also I would say, yeah,

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not the most interesting one in terms
of like if you start, there's a

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lot of business know how you have
to know and if you come as a

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junior, you cannot do so many
things. There's a lot of freedom of

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documentation and like, yeah, and
he wanted me to be still productive,

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and therefore he had some side projects
on helper tool, which was written in

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a chas. Then he told me
like, okay, you can read,

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like half a day you can work
on our project, like on the real

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project, and the other half a
day you can work on the saying of

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the chas project. And then yeah, I started to work on it,

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and I immediately liked it, Like
I thought, this is what I want

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to do, and that's the way
I drifted into jobscript. Basically. Yeah,

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it's interesting. I mean you wind
up basically getting into JavaScript through work.

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And what's funny is is that and
this is something that's a little bit

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unique to you is that most people
I talked to they got into JavaScript and

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they started doing a bunch of stuff
on the front end, and then eventually

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they stumbled into Angular somehow, right, or if they're doing view or react,

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they kind of stumbled that way.
And it sounds like it all kind

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of came at you at once,
both Angular JS and JavaScript. Yeah.

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It was more like I started directly
with Angler chairs and had no idea about

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what stollerscope and these things, and
then I thought, okay, this is

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pretty cool. I can do powerful
things after like one or two days.

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And then because back then I still
had like one hour to go to work

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one hour in the trade like one
way, so basically each day two hours

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and all those two hours I spent
only then on researching Angular chairs. And

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also then I realized that I don't
understand the concepts of childscript, like what

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is prototype chain and stuff like that. Yeah, and then I just started

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to just in my free time,
like learn chadascript. So basically as you

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said, normally learned chadscript and then
you go to English chairs. For me,

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it was like started with England chairs
and then I thought, okay,

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I need to get a better understanding
of chaaskrit itself? Right, that's really

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interesting too. Were you able to
effectively write Angular jas not knowing JavaScript proper?

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It seems like a lot of people
kind of come, yeah, come

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that way too, right, the
newer programmers I'm talking to it. Well,

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I got into react or, I
got into Angular, and then I

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realized that I didn't understand anything about
JavaScript or I ran up against the limitations

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of what you can do and react
or Angular without owing JavaScript, and that's

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when they start to learn it.
Yeah, so I would say I couldn't

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really. I could write some features, but they were not written in the

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nicest way, and it was a
lot of like Stecco would flow helping.

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But once I got better, I
released them and then yeah, I rewrote

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them. I think today it's a
little bit easier because you have already like

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typescript, which is much Yeah,
it looks more like Java than normal JavaScript,

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like kind I mean, you have
classes and stuff like that, which

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is kind of familiar to you if
you come from Java, right, makes

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sense. Have you thought about learning
to do native iOS development? Are you

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using Swift at work, or maybe
you've considered writing applications for mac os.

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We have a podcast that covers all
of that called I Freaks. We have

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a new panel and a lot of
exciting things to talk about, so come

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00:14:54,519 --> 00:15:01,480
check us out at ifreakshow dot com. So yeah, I mean you stuck

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with Angular and with JavaScript as opposed
to Java, and you stuck with Angular

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through the transition in the Angular two
and you know networ Angular what nine?

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So what made you stick around?
What was it that made you a give

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up on Java and then b stay
with this technology for so long? Yeah?

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So when I started to do it, I was then also I liked

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it that much that I started to
reduce MYA to go back to eighty percent

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working and like use that one day
to go to university and learn JavaScript.

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That was really like I really wanted
to do this, and why I start

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with it was kind of I really
liked this fast feedback cycle. So when

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you program something, you got this
fast feed feedback. And then for me

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it was like one language to rule
them all. So when I was doing

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stuff with Java, I could not
just go home and prototype things and it

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was more like okay, I need
a frondand for it. And with JavaScript,

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I could do the fund and and
I could easily do a note back

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end, which is pretty amazing for
me. And yeah, and then also

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I think another thing was the whole
community. Somehow, I like that it's

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so fast, that it goes forward
so fast. And also the people in

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the community were welcoming and like also
somehow if you go to conferences, I

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think they were just like had so
much passion about Chavascript and things. I

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think the community was also not saying
that the chav community is bad, but

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it was more like there was less
going on, I would say, makes

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sense. So, yeah, what
was it like making that transition from angular

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JAS to angular because I mean,
you know, we kind of have the

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infamous what was the angular EU talks
where they had like the tombstones, We're

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not gonna have this anymore, and
we're not going to have that anymore,

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and everybody kind of went For me, it was less like that. For

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me. I was really seeing it
as a new chance. I mean.

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The cool thing is also this was
for me, this was the first framework

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that I followed from the beginning.
Like when I started working, everything was

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already there. This was the first
which I really followed from the beginning,

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and so I was kind of embracing
it. I felt like typescrip looked super

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promising. Back then r x JAS
was super cool, like yeah, I

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felt from yeah, from the first
touches I got to Angler two. Back

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then, I thought, yeah,
this is coming to be a huge improvement

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over Angler chairs. So I was
less like oh no, it was more

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like embracing and looking forward to it. Right. So, I guess another

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question that I have as we kind
of get your story, is that you

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said that you're a Freelancerwitzerland. Yeah, now I've I for the what to

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00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,480
just give some contacts. So I
worked in regular jobs for about three or

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00:18:10,519 --> 00:18:15,079
four years after I graduated from college
or from the university, and then I

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00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:18,759
wound up going freelance. And I
was freelanced for what like four or five

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00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:23,279
years, and then I've been able
to do the podcasting for the last three

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years full time. So I know
what freelancing looks like here in the US.

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What does it look like in Switzerland? I would say in Switzerland currently,

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it's like one of the best things
you can do, if you ask

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00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:47,920
me, because the risk of like
being unemployed is quite low, I would

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say because the market, Yeah,
it's quite dry. There are more jobs

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than people than qualified people. And
especially the cool thing is so that's like

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if you of most people when they
want to go freelancing, the first question

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you ask is like the risk basically, Oh yeah, I hear that all

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the time here too. I've had
people complain I can't find a job I

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love, and I'm like, go
freelance, and they're like, hmm,

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well I can't find a client.
That's scary. Yeah, I would say

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00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,640
in Switzerland currently it's quite good to
fight clients, but like that's not the

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reason to go freelancing. Freelancing is
quite cool because you have this experience like

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working for you, and also you
get like more flexibility and more like free

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time and basically doing what you want
to do. And I mean for me,

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it was also always weird to have
this kind of like if you meet

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your boss which never works with you, and he tells you what your goals

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are and where you should go in
which direction, and so it was kind

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of weird because I when I'm now
working on a client, I'm there because

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I'm motivated and I want to bring
the project forward. It's not I basically

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don't need somebody to tell me which
goals I should read. I'm self motivated

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and I have my own goals,
so like if I don't have those calls,

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that probably I should not go to
the client anymore. But yeah,

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I think it's a it's a kind
of mind shift. I would say,

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if you go freelance and you should
definitely have the correct mind, I would

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say, yep. Nice. So
yeah, I how long have you been

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freelance? Now? Like two years? Almost a little bit more. Yeah,

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00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:33,000
more than two years because I started
to work in twoenty and fourteen.

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R I mean, you cannot go
from the university and immediately freelance, So

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00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:44,039
it started four years or five years
as internal for the company and then I

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00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,400
decided to make this step nice,
very cool. So do you have some

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00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,519
advice for people who are kind of
thinking that that's the direction they want to

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go. Yeah. For me,
like in everything that I've learned, kind

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of like because I also started laden
programming, I'm now like eight years into

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it. Basically now I made a
career like living out of it, but

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basically become freelance and now recently becoming
a GD And like for me, the

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main message to people is you don't
have to be a genius to program,

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Like it's more about hard work,
about dedication about enjoying what you do.

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And then also, yeah, I
think that's that's basically the key if you

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want to go in this direction.
And for me, the mindset is kind

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00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,640
of important. If you have the
correct mindset, then it's possible to do

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these things, right, I agree. I think it's something that everybody should

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00:21:42,839 --> 00:21:47,839
try and then, yeah, you
know, not everybody's cut out for it.

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You don't feel bad if if you
figure out you don't like it,

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00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,920
or you figure out that it's you
know, harder for you than it looks

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like it is for other people.
Yeah, don't mean anything's wrong with you,

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00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,599
it's just yeah, yeah, anyway, Yeah, just if you try

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it, I think then you also
need to be willing to put some time

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in and put something some working.
You cannot just like dream around and then

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00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,480
think, okay, i'll go freelancing. But yeah, then you need also

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to put some work in. Yeah. I just recorded an episode of React

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Roundup, which is our React podcast, and we didn't have a guest and

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everybody else was sick, so I
just did it on my own. And

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that's what I was talking about.
I was like, look, you got

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to do the work, you know, wherever you want to end up at.

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00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:30,440
You have to do the work.
You have to do the work to

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learn the technology skills. You have
to learn the work, do the work

289
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,200
to learn the soft skills. You
know, you can shortcut some of it

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00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,799
by finding mentors or going to conferences
or you know, watching video courses,

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00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,119
but at the end of the day, you have to practice it or you're

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not going to get it. Yeah. Yeah, nice. What are you

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working on now? Yeah? Now, like in terms of open source or

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like client projects, so yeah,
maybe an open source I'm working now.

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Yeah, I'm working on a project
in a client where we basically built like

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a new component library, like a
framework, like basically like Angular material in

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these directions of some of our own
component library. And there are now implementing

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like sbg itons, so basically an
icon library like font us some kind of

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nice and yeah, there are needed
some tool and I that was a pretty

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cool experience because the tool was super
technical and it basically takes spg iticons and

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then spitz generates them, processes them
and spits them out in a tree shakable

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way like yeah, the mask,
And I thought, why not open source

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this tool? So I'm kind of
also working on this tool in open source.

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And the cool thing was because it
was pure technical, I open sourced

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it and other people like could use
it too, and then also started to

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contribute in which was again a benefit
for my compliment. Also that was a

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00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:11,000
quite cool experience. Where do people
find it. It's on GitHub It's called

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00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,039
scy to t s and also an
NPM you can download it. Currently working

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00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:18,799
on a new feature which makes I
can I can even more tree shakable.

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And yeah, I also plan to
do a ride up on this. So

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because it's a little bit hard to
put everything to read me, so I'll

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00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:33,279
probably write a blog post about this
and then yet people can check out and

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00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:38,319
hopefully enjoy it. Nice, very
cool. Well, if I can get

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00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:41,480
a link to that in the chat, we'll put it in the show notes.

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00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:45,960
So so what's the rest of life
look like? I mean, besides

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00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:51,839
soccer and programming, what what else
do you do or spend time with or

317
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,880
on or yeah? Yeah, and
winter I love to go snowboarding, like

318
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:03,359
because in Switzerland my girlfriend is from
Mutt that's a quite famous place in Switzerland

319
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:08,400
with huge skiing area, so I
like to go there. And then also

320
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:14,440
I play I still play football like
soccer. Sorry, no, call it

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00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,480
football. People need to learn.
Yeah, get over folks, football football.

322
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,960
I still play football. Yeah,
I'm a free time So that's basically

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00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,920
it. What position do you play? Uh? Like, number ten is

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00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,400
my my favorite position? Number ten? Is that defense? No, that's

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00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:44,079
midfield, Like that's basically that's basically
the guy who is almost like yes,

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00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:51,319
behind the attackers, doesn't have to
care too much about defensive work. So

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that's that's a position I like.
Nice. Yeah, very cool. People

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00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:03,680
want to connect with you online?
Is there a good place for people to

329
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,599
do that? Yeah, for sure, Like, so you can either follow

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00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,519
me on my githo project where you
can find some of my open source open

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00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:18,920
source projects. Or a good place
is also to read via medium that's where

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00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,920
I post my blocks, or of
course Twitter. Twitter is, like I

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00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,319
would say, the best place.
Nice. We'll make sure we get links

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00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,559
to all that stuff too, folks, so we can you can ask Kevin

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00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:34,720
all your deep and burning questions.
All right, well, let's go ahead

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00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,359
and do some pics. Do you
have anything you want to pick or shout

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00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,880
out about or do you want me
to go first? Yeah? I have

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00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:49,559
like some technical picks and then some
not non technical picks. So yeah.

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00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,400
One of the things I have is
like I programmed the library which is called

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ENNGI SORCRIT because I was using materials
CDK and I have trouble like ordering a

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00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:06,839
grid in like multi direction. It
was great to order it vertically or horizontally,

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00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:11,359
but once I went to mixed orientation, I had some issues and therefore

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00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,920
I put implemented like ENGI SOORCRIT,
which you can check it out if you

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00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:21,799
want. It's basically a grinted supports
drag and drop in multiple directions. And

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00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,480
then another cool thing I would recommend
you to look at if you're using England

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00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:33,119
material. With version nine, they
released component harnesses, which is basically something

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00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,240
you can use to test because currently
if you want to test like a radio

348
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:42,079
button or something, you often go
with fixture and then debug element and then

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00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:48,480
use some DSS selectors to go to
some internals of material and execute a click

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00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:52,440
there. And now they abstracted it
a way into these harness tests. That's

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definitely something I would recommend you.
And then last week I played a little

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bit around CSS and one cool thing
I learned is there's a clip path attribute

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which you can use, or a
clip puff property, a cess property and

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00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:18,400
it basically allows you to clip images
based on a path, which is quite

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00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,599
cool. So those were my technical
picks. I have two other picks,

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00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:29,559
like for everybody who loves movies.
Yesterday we watched a movie called Jojo Rabbit,

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00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:33,359
which is quite I think it's a
new movie. It is. I

358
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,559
haven't seen it, but I've seen
yeah. Yeah. It was about a

359
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:42,400
ten year old boy who's Yeah,
it plays like in the Second World War.

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00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:49,160
It is like super fanantic. But
yeah. The reason I like this

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00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:55,319
movie is because it was kind of
weird, funny, heartwarming and also heartbreaking

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00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,440
at the same time. And it
was kind of a special film, like

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00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:03,839
a unique film. Yeah, I
haven't seen anything that is like similar treat

364
00:29:04,039 --> 00:29:08,599
so therefore I can enjoy it.
And then yeah, if you like podcas

365
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:15,599
we spot a new game which is
called The Settlers of Katan and it's the

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00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,839
version Rise of the Incas, which
is quite cool to play. I would

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00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,319
say, nice, Yeah, we
like Settlers of Katan. Here. So

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00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:27,359
my first pick is going to be
the book that I'm listening to on Audible,

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00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:34,160
and what it is is it's Chronicles
of Narnia, which I think most

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00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:41,880
people have heard of, but these
these books are narrated by famous authors.

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00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:48,440
So the first book's narrated by Kenneth
Brenna, the last book is narrated by

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00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Patrick Stewart. And they are awesome, They are so well read. Really

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00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,920
really enjoying those, and you can
pick it up on Audible. So usually

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00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:03,480
and I link out to books,
I link out to Amazon, but this

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00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:07,720
one, it'll link to Amazon,
but it'll link to Amazon where you can

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00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:12,319
get the audible version, so just
be aware of that. And uh yeah,

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00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:15,319
those are my picks. Thank you
for coming and talking to me,

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00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:18,680
Kevin. This was fun. It
was a pleasure. Thanks for having me,

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00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:23,680
all right, folks, Well until
next time. Max out bandwidth for

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00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,680
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