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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I have with
me the illustrious Martin Bad to the Bone.

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Willis Bad to the bone. That's
right. Yeah, yes, I'm

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here. How you doing. I'm
doing great? How are you doing?

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It gets cold here though it's kind
of chilly here. It's it's at least

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in the sixties. Yeah. Yeah, we're in single digits here in Maine.

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WHOA, that is really fligging cold. Yeah. I mean January is

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the cold month, and when I
lived in Denver, that's when it got

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the coldest, especially early January.
So I am happy not to be anywhere

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cold. I bet I bet so. My guest. I'm very excited about

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my guest today. He created this
great video. He works in the avy

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field. He's like, I know, a director of photography for this company,

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does lots of work in television and
stuff. So he got interested in

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the two thousand and four Nimitz Carrier
strike group case. This was a case

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that was shown to the world at
the New York Times in their story last

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December December twenty seventeen. This story
that revealed the whole Pentagon thing with Louel

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Azando and the whole thing. You
know, they talked about this Nimetz case.

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Of course, since then, you
and I have interviewed several people regarding

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this case. But what David Beatty
did, and if you're one of the

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one point four million viewers who have
seen this on YouTube, he created this

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fifteen minute video that goes, you
know, minute by minute of what happened

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during that encounter Commander David Fraverer had
and his colleagues when they zeroed in on

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this tic TAC looking UFO. And
it's got great CG. It's got footage

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from the Navy, it's got interspersed
with an interview with David Fraverer. He

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was able to get permission from to
the Stars to use their interview. So

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it is really really good. And
I had a great time talking to David

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Batty about this video. So if
you haven't seen it, got to see

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it. Of course, the link
will be in the show notes, and

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I think everybody's going to really enjoy
this interview. He is, of course

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very well versed on this case well
and I have not seen it, but

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as soon as we get done by
golly, that's the first thing I'm gonna

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do nice, nice, nice nice. It's gonna be a lot of fun.

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So so yeah, that's the show
today. But before we get into

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the show, of course, we
always spend some time, you and I

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to talk some UFO news, that's
right, And you know I looked like

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you do, I'm sure every single
day, and to see what's in the

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news about UFOs, and boy is
it heavy with Project blue Book. First

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of all, the New York Times
leslie Kine and Ralph Blumenthal published story Project

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blue Book is based on a true
story, and here it is, and

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that that's in the New York Times
that came out on January fifteenth the other

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day, and a great article.
Check it out. And so as I'm

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looking around for news again, I
see more and more about Project blue Book.

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Nothing new as far as sightings to
speak of. There's things out there.

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This is really cool. Can I
mention something about the New York Times

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article? Yeah, yeah, go
ahead. What I love about that article.

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What I think is great well and
interesting is you know I know leslie

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Kine who wrote that article along with
Ralph Blumenthal, two of the authors of

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the New York Times story that broke
the whole Pentagon story. Just one of

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the people is missing. But these
guys are the ones who broke the story.

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I wrote this Pentagon or this Project
blue Book story, but they used

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some very strong verbage. Like in
the earlier one about the Pentagon, Leslie

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said they had to fact check everything
and they were very careful. But like

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here's one of the quotes from this
new Project blue Book one. When Project

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When blue Book closed in late nineteen
sixty nine, the Air Force flatly lied

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to the American people, issuing a
fact sheet claiming that no UFO had ever

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been a threat to national security.
That they are accusing the Air Force of

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lying in this you know, in
this sentence without justifying why they're saying that.

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Now, I think I can make
an argument that would justify what they're

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saying. But still, you know, I'm surprised they weren't, you know,

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required to make that argument in this
article. That is a real good

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point. Well yeah, pretty strong
stuff. It's essentially New York Times saying,

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you know, the Air Force had
lied and it was misrepresented and all

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that sort of thing. I don't
think that anyone's going to be shocked,

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to be honest with you, that
a branch of the government lied to its

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people. But about UFOs, I
think people for some reason, you know,

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they get a little more skeptical about
that. But that's true. It's

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true. Yeah, it's very interesting
story. Yeah. So the other article

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that caught my eye in the news
today, it was actually came out on

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January ninth, but still it's hot
in the news and it's basically the History

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Channel's own website, and it's titled
seen a UFO in the nineteen fifties.

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You could report this in this easy
questionnaire and say you're out walking the desert

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and see a flash of light in
the sky that you can't identify. This

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happened between nineteen fifty two and nineteen
sixty nine. You could report that light

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to Project Bluebook at the US Air
Force Project to Investigate Unidentified Flying Objects aka

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UFOs, and it was the longest
running official government inquiry into the UFOs that

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we know of, I should say, based at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

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In anyway, if you look at
the form, it's really great.

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They have this original scan of the
actual form that you would fill out and

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which is now unclassified and uh and
you know it starts out confidential. US

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Air Force technical information sheet, and
then it goes on to you know,

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all the questions like, you know, when did you see this, what

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time of day was it? And
yeah, and they asked also about the

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moon and the stars yea, and
was it brighter you know what was brighter

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in the background? And did the
object stand still at any time? And

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then it goes on you know about
sounds, you know what type of sound

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did this create? If any and
then it has silent as the first one,

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buzzing and you know, et cetera, and it was fuzzy or blurred

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anyway. It's a great, great
little form. Anyone can check it out,

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you know, it's just you'll probably
put that in the show notes maybe

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huh uh, sure, yes,
send me the link. But there was

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as Comic Con when they did that
activation for Project blue Book, and I

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don't know if you remember I talked
about it. I post a Facebook live

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of me going through there, but
they used the actual form. So they

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used that form when you know you
went in and you sat down and they

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said have you had a UFO siding? Oh? I remember that? Yeah?

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Yeah, And if you didn't have
a sighting, you can just continue

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through on through the rest of the
activation, which is kind of a display,

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you know, and activation is the
first time they're showing, hey,

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we're doing this cool TV show,
so it's like activating the whole marketing of

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the show. And some people walked
on, but most people had sightings to

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explain, which was kind of neat, and then they used that form they

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asked those questions and then they passed
that form onto their sketch artists. So

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as you enjoyed the display, they
would tell you, you know, come

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back in ten minutes and we'll have
your sketch of your sighting done. So

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that was really cool. But yeah, they use that for him. It's

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a great form. And I didn't
know that they actually used the original form

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when you did that. I remember
you telling about the whole experience. Yeah,

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it's pretty cool, and you know, that form essentially, you know,

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move on in other groups built off
of that. I can see that.

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I mean there's a lot of really
you know, great information that and

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it's funny. It's like circle one
and you know, you know, they

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have all different types of examples of
whatever it is. You know, the

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questions involved, like what was the
condition of the sky bright daylight all daylight

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bright twilight just a trace of daylight, you know that type of stuff.

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Yeah, very very detailed. It
just narrows it right down, you know,

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question after question. Yeah. So
regarding blue Book, Yeah, if

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I can ask you, I brought
you up in an interview with Michael Hanks

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this morning. Oh and we're talking
about what a chump you are just kidding.

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No, you know, Micah had
asked me about Project blue Book,

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and there's a little bit of this
in the New York Times about how it's

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you know, heavily fictionalized, And
in my preview or review of the show,

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I said that too. You know, it is got a lot of

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heavy on the fiction. But and
that seems to have inspired, Like Mica

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brought up a lot of anger and
angst yes in at least the online UFO

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community, And he laughed when I
told him. He said, what do

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you think? And I said,
well, that community gets upset about everything

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and they're freaking out. They're so
negative about everything. I mean, I'm

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sure you and I, for instance, are skeptical, we're careful to examine

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things, but they just love to
tear people down, it seems like,

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and find like, for instance,
there's some new documents out about a tip,

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and now they're all fighting about this
and these documents just because I brought

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it up to share with the audience. I tweeted about them. Nick Pope

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actually wrote an article about them,
which is linked on the Open Minds front

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page. And they don't really say
much. They just talk about here are

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some of the products from a tip, meaning in what they mean are some

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of the scientific papers that came out
of a tip. And a tip,

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of course is this Pentagon UFO program
that Luise Elezando ran that was in the

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New York Times. We talked about
to back up to make sure everybody's caught

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up, but so it didn't have
a lot, but there were a lot

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of people who said, oh,
they don't even believe this organization was real

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and that these guys are lying.
And so now they were accusing Nick of

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I guess faking these documents, which
doesn't surprise me, and he had to

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tweet guys, I did not make
these documents up. They were sent to

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me via FOYA. And actually there's
a Federation of American Science, aientist researcher

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who also got these who posts this
on their FAS dot org site. So

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yeah, they're real, and they
show that the group was real. It

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shows the name, but that's just
an example these people ripping and tearing and

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oh no, they're faith they aren't
even real and they're all lying to us.

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And so I mean, uh,
this doesn't surprise me about the negativity.

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But I was just I brought you
up because you know, I've interviewed

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Paul Heinek. You got to interview
Paul and Joel together with Lee. Lee

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called me right after the show,
by the way, and say, guess

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who I just talked to. But
you know, they are very happy with

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the show. They got to be
involved with making sure their father was represented

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properly. I think Aidan Gillen's doing
a great job. And Heinek is like

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a mega hero. I mean he's
like, wow, look at this one

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scientist against the Air Force and he's
learning all this stuff. He's a great

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molder ish type of character. And
the show is not accurate completely, but

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it's a historical fiction. I mean, I'm a fan of historical fiction.

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Not all historical fiction. It varies
from very way off base, but kind

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of getting the essence of the period
of time to fairly accurate. Fairly because

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you can't be that accurate. You
can't be completely accurate in a fiction show

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and encapsulate the story. So I
don't have a huge problem. I wish

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it would. It's always nice when
it's more factual, but it's not that

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big of a deal to me.
And here's just real quick two points.

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One point being that it's bringing the
net gain is that it's bringing a ton

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of attention to Bluebook that it existed
and through the eyes of the best person,

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Heinik, who was a real scientist, who was a skeptic, who

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after looking at the evidence, found
it was real. So all of these

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people and you're seeing story pop up
all over the place about UFOs and Project

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blue Book. And here's a Project
blue Book that was in our town,

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you know. Here's the UFO sidings
from twenty eighteen all related to this Project

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blue Book. So it's brought so
much positive attention to the UFO field and

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research and interest in it that I
think it's been a real positive And then

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on top of that, the second
thing is that the History Channel is creating

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these articles like you just talked about
that are explaining the facts in the background,

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and they're very you know, compelling
UFO stories. Because they're using compelling

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UFO cases in the show. So
these articles are great that are just further

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getting information out there. And I
don't know of any other show. You

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can tell me if you know differently, but I don't think I've seen any

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other show where they released articles like
this in conjunction with their historical fiction show

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to show that the reality. I
don't think so either. And you know,

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I've been battling out with some people
on Facebook and bringing that up as

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part of my argument into why I
think it's a great show. And if

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someone wants to, you know,
want more fact than they should watch a

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documentary. And this is never stating
anything other than what you said, historical

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fiction. And you know, as
far as speaking to both Joel and Paul

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Heinick, they are very happy with
all the all the work that Aiden did

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as the actor to try to I
mean, he actually calls them and asks

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them, you know, certain questions
and and wants to make sure that he

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would, you know, go along
the same lines in the way that Heinich

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would do. And uh, they
they are happy. They said, you

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know, basically, well, you
know, some things we wish, you

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know didn't happened or whatever. But
you know, we just overall, we're

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very happy with all the you know, attention that is given to UH,

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to Heine's character and full disclosure.
You and I have received these friggin' awesome

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I don't know if you knew I
got one, but I saw in your

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social media you got one, and
I had shared on social media when I

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got mine. Oh, these attacked
sharecases that are real leather, that nice,

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some cool, very nice. I
mean, that's something you could use

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forever. And they came with these
blue book files and a pen and some

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cool stuff inside of them. Even
candy, Yeah, lots of candy.

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So they're freaking cool. And but
I got to say it, at least

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for me, even if you know, I think the audience knows. I'm

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very honest with the audience. So
if even if I didn't like the show

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that cool package, I still would
said, hey, but the marketing people

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are awesome because they sent me this
package, even though they're show sucked,

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I would still say, you know
what my complaints are about the show,

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But overall, I'm genuinely enjoying the
show and I'm loving the results. You

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know, you and I pay attention
to the mainstream media and all this positive

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attention UFOs are getting. Are you
sway do you think you're biased from your

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cool attache? No, that's not
going to buy me over. I just

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really I enjoyed the whole concept of
it right from the beginning. And you

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know, I think one or two
when you and I have had you know,

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access to the screeners for up to
the first six episodes, and I

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think one in particular, one of
the episodes goes just way out way out

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there, too far. But other
than that, you know, you get

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involved with the characters and they're they're
very likable, and I just think it

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really the show really grows on you, and I think I think it's it's

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going to be a really good success. It's already had. I think the

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first show had over three million viewers, and so I think it's just going

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to grow, and hopefully they'll have
more than one season because I want to

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find out more of those stories,
even though as we're both talking about,

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they're not exact, but it will
get people to look into the real cases.

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Yeah, and you know, I
think it's it's all good. I

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don't see I can't really see anything
negative about it, And you know,

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you and I could do a show
on the negativity in the UFO field alone.

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Unfortunately, I know, I know, I mean, we we're just

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talking about some negativity and that going
on out there that people have sent us

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that we both just don't see,
at least currently a point to kind of

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get into. But that's typically the
case. I mean, there's so much

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great positive information to share in this
world like this, you know interview I'm

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just about to have with Baby about
this incredible Nimitz case. And you know,

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David Fravor talking all over the place
to major media, a commander,

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a pilot, you know, jet
fighter pilot, well respected talking about his

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dogfight with this tic tac UFO.
This sort of stuff has never happened before.

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The government politicians calling in Luise Elizondo
and other David Fraver and others to

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talk about UFOs, you know,
and there's been several congressional subcommittees that have

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done this, and so it's an
incredible time of discovery and that's why I

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think we just there's a lot of
data and real information to come over and

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to look into, and that's what
I think people need to pay attention to

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and not just get distracted by people
trying to tear each other down for whatever

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reason. I don't get it.
I don't know why. It reminds me

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of this saying the scroll I knew
had. You know, blowing out other

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people's candles doesn't make yours shine any
brighter. Yeah, And you know,

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if people could I don't know if
it's egos or whatever it is, or

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sour grapes or I don't know what
it is, but if they could remove

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that part of it and just look
at what it truly is, you know,

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I'm talking about Project Bluebook, the
series. Then you know, if

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they could just somehow not be offended
that it's not following the exact the truth

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of what happened, and that it's
it's made for entertainment as well as also

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giving many tidbits of factual information available. You know. That's like you said,

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that's I don't think anyone's ever done
that before. Yeah. Yeah,

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So I don't see anything at all
wrong with it. And there are some

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people out there also, I will
say the other way around, not all

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negative. There are people out there
that are writing it's awesome. I love

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it, you know. So yeah, I mean I've got a lot of

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Yeah, I've got a lot of
listeners I've seen where they say, well,

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I don't see a problem with it. I think it's pretty cool.

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And I've even got some Yeah they're
saying it's awesome. I love it,

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it's so great. So yeah,
everybody's got their opinion and everything. I

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think it's just getting so like,
yeah, let's kill it. And it

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also shows a disconnect. And I
think this is a problem is that when

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you've got like yourself or the field
has a complete disconnect with the general public,

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that's a problem. That means that
you're not connecting with them, that

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whatever it is you're doing is not
something that is really something that is going

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to, you know, gain their
interest or support. And the general public

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doesn't know the real background or the
history, and they're excited about the show.

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The show's doing really well. So
I think that it's advantageous for us

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then to figure out, well,
how can we plug into this tension and

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get feed the public more credible information
so they do understand about it. And

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you know, that's what we've been
doing with our shows to what I've been

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trying to do with my articles on
Den of Geek and elsewhere, and that's

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exciting, you know, you're going
back into the history of this as far

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as you know, the modern history
what they say beginning in nineteen forty seven

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and the Nathan Twining memo. A
lot of people don't you know that I've

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actually sent that to this So this
is fake, This isn't really you know,

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like, it doesn't seem possible that
the Air Force would actually write,

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you know, flying discs and you
know their thoughts of them. What do

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you think about that memo in general? Do you think, well, here's

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the problem that I think what's happened
with all of this, you know,

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hoaxing and fake There's so much that
is fake and a hoax out there,

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and this is why I think,
you know, this whole MJ twelve stuff

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and everything, which I think many
of us have demonstrated is extremely dubious.

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We don't need to fall back on
dubious information because there's very credible information out

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there. I think that you know, the Air Force Times wrote a story

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about Project blue Book and in it
they talked about the Pentagon Project and they

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ended it with, you know,
this demonstrates the government is interested in unidentified

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aerial phenomenon and I think that's the
whole point that's what we've been arguing out

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for in the past. And you
know, we've got this video at open

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Mind's TV about the military secrecy and
we go over the history of blue Book.

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But after blue Book, even though
they're denying they're not interested, we're

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showing that they are. So this
dialogue has been that the Air Force concluded

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there's nothing to it and blah blah
blah. But it's not true that everybody

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in the government or everybody in the
Air Force came to that conclusion. This

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has been a debate since the beginning
up until now. And yes, there

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was a very big contingent that believed
that it could be extraterrestrial. They wrote

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at least a couple reports. We've
got this memo from Twining, we have

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we know from Rupelt, the guy
who ran Project blue Book for the first

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time, really kind of the guy
responsible for getting it rolling, and his

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accounts of how you know, the
first analysis on UFOs that the Air Force

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looked into, they said it could
be extraterrestrial in nature, so they were

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willing to go down that route.
And we have a whole history of people

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Fraver included saying I think what I
encountered is unworldly. Charles Halt in the

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Air Force he felt the same way. So yeah, yeah, all good

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stuff. And we're out of time, aren't we. We are out of

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time. So thank you so much
for joining us again, Martin, Absolutely

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my pleasure. All right, we
will be right back with David Beatty right

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after this break. Welcome back to
the show. I am your host,

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so Lejandro Rojas, and we have
a great guest for the first time,

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Dev Baty. Hello. How are
you, Hey, Alejandra, I'm doing

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great, glad to be here.
Thanks for inviting me. Yes, I'm

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so happy to be talking to you
because I think what you did is really

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important and luckily it's doing well.
But I guess to begin with, how

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did you come up with this idea? What compelled you to do it?

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Well? Obviously for the people that
know and follow the topic, you know,

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last the last couple of years.
December twenty seventeen was when the New

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00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:57.599
York Times article appeared, and you
know, I had always been involved in

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ufology, you know, almost my
entire life, and when that article came

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out, I started doing some research, specifically about the A Tip program and

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some of the cases that were being
released to the public. Specifically the case

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with the USS nimics, and there
were several articles that were out there on

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the internet in addition to the New
York Times article, and so that was

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the first you know, kind of
inkling of oh wow, that's such a

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00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:38.599
cool story. I wonder what that
looked like for those pilots that were flying

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off of nimets, what did they
see? And it kind of sparked my

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imagination of how could that be visualized. So I think that those were the

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first weeks where I started, you
know, that inkling of what I could

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do as a filmmaker. A lot
of my past work has not been involving

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UFOs. It's been involving more nonfiction
documentary and other commercial projects. You know,

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that's my career, and I haven't
done a lot with UFO cases,

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but I think this was the first
one. So that's really to answer your

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00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:18.519
question how I kind of first started
the Niamens Encounter film. Mm hmm.

334
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:25.039
Well, what's also great about your
film is that you the people you work

335
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with. So for instance, and
I know it's hard to do because I

336
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have so many people calling me seeing
if I can help, is to get

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to the stars to kind of lend
a hand, and they did. In

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that they lent you or let you
use their interview with Commander David Fraverer,

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one of the pilots there, and
he did this interview with To the Stars

340
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.599
Arts and Sciences and they allowed you
to use that. Yeah, that's correct.

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Obviously, when I first started,
I didn't have any budget, you

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know. Going back to that,
it's this film was not sponsored by anybody,

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and it didn't, you know,
have any angel funders or anything like

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that. So I had to figure
out how I could work on the project

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without a big outlay of cash.
Specifically in the case of film documentary films,

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oftentimes their travel involved a lot of
research, going to the locations and

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interviewing the witnesses and so on.
Did not have any of that money.

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And after To the Stars Academy Community
of Interest page was posted, they had

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this really nice interview with Commander David
Fraber, you know in the US Navy

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Pilot and Hero and you know,
I was really blown away with his interview.

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And in the beginning process where I
was thinking how I could put it

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together, I knew that if I
could do some recreations and I could get

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some Navy footage in addition to his
interview, I could probably put something together.

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So I reached out to two the
Star's Academy. They had a media

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portals to speak on their website where
you could, you know, reach out

356
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.160
to them if you had a request, and I did ask if I could

357
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use some excerpts from that particular interview
and a short film that I was making

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that you know, it was pretty
much not for non not for profit,

359
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and then I was going to give
for free to the UFO in the you

360
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know worldlike community. And I didn't
hear anything for a while, and I

361
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was kind of getting disappointed. But
then I did get a an email from

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Carried Along saying that, you know, as long as I didn't just take

363
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the whole thing and use it all, you know, copy it, that

364
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:47.039
I could use some excerpts. So
that gave me my first start of doing

365
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the production. That's awesome, yeah, because that adds so much and into

366
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:56.480
a great interview when you put this
together. I guess I know you have

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spoken recently with Kevin at least I
saw, I think on the UFO News

368
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:07.799
Network he had an interview with him
recently. Yeah, I've known Kevin since

369
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.240
like the very beginning, when you
first came out on Facebook telling the story,

370
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and I also have a closed Facebook
group that he's a member of.

371
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So since that very beginning, you
know, So those very beginning days when

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I was formulating, you know,
what I was going to do with the

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movie, I brought Kevin in,
you know, and I was you know,

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bouncing ideas off him and specifically showing
him the script that I had,

375
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you know, the rough draft of
the script that I had, asking him,

376
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:44.200
if you know, to look at
that for accuracy based on his memory

377
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of the events. So he was
very involved in the very beginning. M

378
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:55.240
h. And I guess getting into
the events of that are portrayed in your

379
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documentary here, I'm not as familiar. I need to interview him and I'm

380
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.079
well soon hopefully I'm not as familiar
with his role. But essentially he was

381
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.720
a radar guy, right and he
was so was he one of the first

382
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:14.920
to spot this on radar? Yeah. Kevin was assigned to the USS Princeton,

383
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:22.200
which is a guided missile carrier guided
missile cruiser which you know is with

384
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:30.400
the carrier Straight Group and its role
is basically to use this sophisticated radar tracking

385
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:37.720
weapons system one of the most powerful
radar tracking systems that the US Navy has,

386
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:42.559
and on that ship is the Combat
Information Center that has all of the

387
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:49.000
displays and uh, you know,
sensors and weapons guidance systems of the ship

388
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:53.720
on there. He worked in there. His role primarily was an air intercept

389
00:31:53.799 --> 00:32:00.720
controller or ai C. And what
they did is, you know, when

390
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:05.440
the planes were in the air,
they helped guide those pilots to targets.

391
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:08.359
You know, it is a war
fighting vessel, and that's what they mainly

392
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:12.640
did. So they were trained to, you know, look at the air

393
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:20.279
radar and when they had enemies other
perhaps adversaries on radar, they could vector

394
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:25.319
fighters and other planes towards those targets. And Kevin was like a senior chief,

395
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:29.599
which is, you know, in
the Navy, he had spent you

396
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.400
know a number of years to reach
that rank, that enlisted rank, and

397
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:37.200
like in the c I C,
he was sort of in charge of that

398
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:43.720
department. He also of note is
he graduated from the top gun school,

399
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.480
and you know that from the movie, but they also had top gun for

400
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.200
the air intercept controllers that were on
the ground working with these fighters, and

401
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:58.319
he participated in that and so he's
a top gun as well. Wow,

402
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:04.440
that's cool. So he sees this
thing on radar and this is you know,

403
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:09.359
while they're doing their exercises, and
it seems like it's a for the

404
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:16.640
Princeton. It's a pretty solid hit. So and correct me and clarifying anything

405
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:22.000
that I miss. So they scramble
the jets, including freight here. Let

406
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.000
me profa. I'll get to that
great incredibly enough. And you probably have

407
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:31.720
heard this in the week before that
event with the jet right, Kevin would

408
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:36.759
hang out there sometimes looking at the
radar screens and at night, you know,

409
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.799
even if he was off duty.
Sometimes he'd be down there in cic

410
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:47.039
and they cap seeing these objects appearing
on radar near Catalina Island, and they

411
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:52.720
would appear almost coming from above sixty
thousand feet. They would they can only

412
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:57.200
scan up with a raidar so high
in the air, but they would appear,

413
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:02.400
and sometimes groups of like six to
ten objects, and oftentimes they would

414
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:08.719
descend down to about twenty four thousand
feet, stop and then begin going in

415
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:15.840
a southern direction at approximately one hundred
and twenty knots. And it's very unusual

416
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:20.639
because jets, planes and other aircraft
that are at twenty eight thousand feet don't

417
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.119
go one hundred and twenty knots.
That's like assessana or something, you know.

418
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:29.159
So it was very odd to Kevin, and they took no note of

419
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:32.400
that. These objects didn't appear to
be any sort of threat to the carrier,

420
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.199
so they were watching them. And
this occurred for you know, several

421
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:42.719
days leading up to the actual jets
where they saw these objects, not just

422
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:47.000
one, but groups of them.
Ye, so at least he was aware

423
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:54.079
that there were unknown objects kind of
in the area. But I'm guessing then

424
00:34:54.159 --> 00:35:00.239
this was the first time we're wow, now we've got one nearby. When

425
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:04.480
that I can scramble jets on.
Yeah, so on you know. The

426
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:07.000
fourteenth was the November fourteenth was the
first day they were going to do an

427
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.079
air defense exercise where during this work
work up period, this two week work

428
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.400
up period or however long it was
out there like maybe the whole month that

429
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:22.440
they were going to have the fighter
jets launching in the Hawkeye e two planes

430
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:28.119
launching and in the air. And
so Kevin briefed the captain or talked to

431
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.400
the captain of the USST. Princeton
and said, look, we have one

432
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.920
of these objects. Right now,
we have these guys that are up there

433
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:39.599
in the jets, we should vector
them to go take a look and investigate

434
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:45.760
this thing and see what it is. Yeah, mm hmm. And so

435
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:52.119
and I gathered this from the documentary
that the radar plane, So essentially they

436
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:57.639
also send along with these guys playing
with some strong radar, so that can

437
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.960
give them some closer real time.
I guess, look at what's going on.

438
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:07.320
But that thing was having a problem
tracking or finding this object, that's

439
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:13.000
correct. The Hawkeye allows them to
get up above the you know, the

440
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:16.760
whole airspace there around the carrier,
and it has its own, you know,

441
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:22.920
huge circular radar dish above the aircraft
spinning around. I think it's like

442
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:28.079
a twenty foot you know dish up
there, and they were having trouble on

443
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:32.480
tracking it with their radar. But
the Princeton's radar in the AEGEUS system,

444
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:38.559
it's called the spy one radar,
and they actually were able to track it

445
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:45.559
pretty well. So while the Hawkeyes
roll after the fighter's launch and take off

446
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.960
is to kind of direct the flight
sort of air traffic control, if you

447
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:53.760
will, in the sky, they
weren't able to direct the fighters to this

448
00:36:53.840 --> 00:37:00.199
object because they weren't able to track
it. So what happened was Princeton contact

449
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.679
them after they briefed the captain and
said, you know, okay, guys,

450
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.599
we're going to take control of these
fighter jets. The callson was Fast

451
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:10.639
Eagle. That was the fighter jets, and they're going to We're going to

452
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:15.480
take control of Fast Eagle. So
you know, they would be handing off

453
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:23.519
control to Princeton. Kevin Day and
his crew on Princeton, so their Fraverer

454
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:29.800
and his Fast Eagle one and his
co pilot fast or not co pilot,

455
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:34.239
but the other plant he is flying
with. Yeah, it would be accurate

456
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.840
to say wingman. Yeah, like
he would be the lead flight and then

457
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:44.320
he would have a wingman that's the
second F A T and F with two

458
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:49.480
people. So each jet has two
individuals and the pilot and the weapons system

459
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:53.400
officer Wizzo who ride in the back
and they man the radar, navigation and

460
00:37:53.400 --> 00:38:00.239
communications system of the aircraft. So
aircraft one is is Fraverer and UH and

461
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:06.960
then aircraft two is Fast Eagle,
to which I know, at least I've

462
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:12.480
been told by some of the guys
that they were not releasing the name of

463
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.920
this person. Although I guess in
your film we do see the gender.

464
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:22.039
That's right. The gender was confirmed, Yes, and from what I understand,

465
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.039
that's accurate too. Yeah. One
of the one back in the beginning,

466
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:30.719
one of the friends of Dave Fravor
who wrote an article named uh Francesco

467
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:38.519
Paco charicis his call sign, mentioned
that the wingman was she and I kind

468
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:43.599
of no one had noticed that.
A lot of the news media was were

469
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:51.400
saying that Lieutenant Commander Jim Clean Slate
Clean being his call sign was the wingman,

470
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:57.599
which is technically correct because Jim was
writing in the backseat of the second

471
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.840
JAT and the jet itself is they're
both wings and if they're in the wingman

472
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.159
jet, so it was a female
on the front and Jim slight in the

473
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.679
back of that wingman. Faaighteen mm
hm, Yeah, we don't know.

474
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:13.559
We don't know who was in the
back of Commander Favor's jet. That name

475
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:17.480
has not been released, right,
and I don't believe her name has been

476
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:24.880
released either now right, She uh
Paco told me she does not want to

477
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:28.679
come forward, she wants nothing to
do with this, and the Molement wigged

478
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:32.840
her out. According to Paco,
Yeah, yeah, and so at least,

479
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.440
yeah, I had heard it was
a female pilot. In fact,

480
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:39.519
I think I was given the name. I think I knew, but told

481
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:44.960
Yeah, they're not sharing that information, so that's interesting. Yeah, it's

482
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:46.599
been released on the internet. I've
seen it, but I think I have

483
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.360
two Yeah, out of respect to
them, I mean they are me too,

484
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:55.559
us military heroes, and if someone
doesn't want their name used, I'm

485
00:39:55.559 --> 00:40:00.760
all for that, exactly. I
agree one hundred percent with you. So

486
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:05.800
they're racing towards the object, and
they actually had a hard time getting a

487
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:09.760
visual at first, right, and
even before they got there, there was

488
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:15.920
another pilot from the Marine Detachment,
the Marine Air Wing of the carrier.

489
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:24.400
He was veactored into the same area
that this UFO or you know UAP was

490
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:30.360
reported, and he noticed a disturbance
on the surface of the ocean down,

491
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:36.320
you know, twenty thousand feet below
him. They started seeing spotting this.

492
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.599
The sea was pretty calm, so
it would have been a blue sea,

493
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:45.000
and he's seeing like this whitewater thing
like on the surface of the sea.

494
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:52.639
And his his name was Lieutenant Colonel
Douglas Cheeks Kurth Cheeks as his call sign,

495
00:40:53.280 --> 00:41:00.119
and so he reported seeing that that
water disturbance is what they described it

496
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:07.000
as kind of waves, roiling sort
of thing, and he didn't see anything

497
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.159
more. He was kind of called
off, they said, you know,

498
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:13.239
return to base or whatever, as
they had fast eagles approaching at the very

499
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:20.760
same time. So when fast Eagle
Commander Fraber and his wingman arrived at that

500
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:25.519
location at about twenty thousand feet roughly, I don't know, they might have

501
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:32.239
been like fifty miles from the carrier
at that point fifty sixty I think they

502
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:39.280
saw this same whitewater disturbance, which
has been described in various ways as being

503
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:45.679
maybe one hundred meters in the beginning. Some of the articles set one hundred

504
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:51.199
two hundred feet. Commander Fraber has
used the reference of a seven thirty seven

505
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:57.440
jet, which is maybe a couple
hundred feet in length. In a recent

506
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.199
interview, he even went out as
far as to it almost had like the

507
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:06.159
appearance of a cross, like if
you looked at a plane that was underwater,

508
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.639
you would see kind of the wings, you know, underwater. He

509
00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:14.199
said, it didn't, it wasn't
that it would almost look like not a

510
00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:17.920
perfect circle. And they described it
as sort of like what maybe a sea

511
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:24.400
mount under a mountain that's just below
the surface of the ocean would look like

512
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:30.599
if waves were breaking over it.
So they didn't say ever say at least

513
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:35.400
I haven't heard that they saw something
under the water. They just described this

514
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:43.960
white water on the surface. M
yeah, and then as favor now at

515
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:49.360
and maybe you don't at what point
then I think they were at the same

516
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:52.519
altitude that they didn't drop or did
they need to drop lower to be able

517
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:58.440
to see the tic tac you know, when they arrived on the scene,

518
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.239
they were at around twenty thouved thousand
feet according to the records you know that

519
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:08.159
have been produced, and in my
film, when you first see that white

520
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:13.840
water, that's about what it would
look like. And using the CGI,

521
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:20.119
the camera is pretty physically real,
so I can place that camera at the

522
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:24.320
same altitude and look at that you
know foot Yeah, so it's kind of

523
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:29.679
you realize that that when you start
visualizing it. Wow, that thing looked

524
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:34.800
like, you know, the size
of a you know, a thumbnail or

525
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:38.000
something like viewed from your eye height
at the floor, it's tiny. And

526
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:43.000
that's what I love about the film
is that it gives you a better perspective

527
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.599
of what they're looking at, because
I don't think people realize how difficult.

528
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.800
Maybe if you're flying in a plane
and you look at the ocean and try

529
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.840
to spot a boat or something.
I mean, it's it's it's hard.

530
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:58.400
Yeah, really in that little whitewater
would have been real small. Probably a

531
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.840
curiosity to that. And I know
that when they arrived, they were looking

532
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:09.880
for some type of unknown and unknown
aircraft. Imagine you know what's going through

533
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.079
their mind. They don't know that
this is a you know, quote unquote

534
00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:16.360
UFO. They think it's an aircraft
that they're sent to identify, and they

535
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:22.880
think maybe it's drug runners and assessma, maybe it's some lost you know,

536
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:27.079
pilot out of California that got you
know, going in the wrong direction or

537
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.679
something. And they're thinking, we're
looking for an aircraft. And then they

538
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:34.719
see this thing in the water and
they start thinking maybe that's the aircraft.

539
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:38.559
And now it crashed and it's in
the water. So they almost began thinking

540
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:43.440
this could be like a certain rescue
type thing and that that's kind of when

541
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:47.360
Fraver decided to go down and take
a little look. And I think,

542
00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:52.719
you know, the exact timing,
they may have seen some movement from that

543
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:58.480
altitude. You could imagine, like
you said, seeing something from twenty two

544
00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:01.639
dosted feet that's forty seven feet long
would be difficult, but it could be

545
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:07.480
that they had descended, you know, down from twenty thousand. So now

546
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:13.079
they're closer. And I believe that
that's when Fraverer, you know, picked

547
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:16.960
it up in his back seater,
when they first saw notice movement over the

548
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:22.519
surface of this disturbance. You know, they're staring at that and they see

549
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:27.199
this object that appears white coming into
their field of view that seems to be

550
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:34.199
moving radically over this disturbance. And
we do have one more piece of information

551
00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:37.320
that I wanted to ask you about
that I passed step on that I accidentally

552
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.320
skipped. I shouldn't have, because
at least there was reason for them to

553
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.800
be a little on edge because of
a strange question that they got en route,

554
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:52.840
Yeah, to the area, which
maybe you could cover that. Sure,

555
00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:55.840
yeah, that's a good point.
We forgot about that. So as

556
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:00.199
they're on route, Commander Fravor of
course, being you know, a senior

557
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:07.440
pilot with lots of experience, the
wing man or wing woman was new a

558
00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:13.639
relatively new pilot and they get a
call from Princeton coming on the radio saying,

559
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:19.079
you know what you know, fast
Eagle report your load out and meaning

560
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:22.280
you know, what are your missiles? What are your air to air missile

561
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:28.719
load out or your cannon? Highly
unusual in a training scenario, and I

562
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:32.199
mean Commander Favorite said, well,
we have these training missiles that really are

563
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:37.760
just empty tubes with no propellant that
have seekert heads on used for training,

564
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:43.360
and they're not going to come off
the jet, so pretty much nothing.

565
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:49.440
And I know that that in the
pilot report onto the Stars Academy. The

566
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:54.880
co the wingman was sort of concerned
about this at that point, you know.

567
00:46:55.519 --> 00:47:01.159
They she thought that maybe they were
looking at some type of terrorist attempt

568
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:05.159
or something like that. You know. So, you know, this was

569
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:07.239
two thousand and four, so it
was on the minds of a lot of

570
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:13.679
people that terrorists were using airplanes,
and I know that they became concerned when

571
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:17.480
they were asked about what kind of
weapons they had. Are you aware if

572
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:27.320
either of or any of the four
in those two jets were aware of the

573
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:31.920
tic TACs or at least the unknowns
that were spotted in the area. When

574
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:36.719
they went out there, go ahead. It's my understanding that they were not

575
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:43.880
that when they were vectored or given
a real world vector to intercept an unknown

576
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.639
aircraft, that they didn't know anything
about what had happened before, you know,

577
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.639
on the princedance with Kevin Day.
That's a good question because I don't

578
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:57.719
I don't remember if that's been asked
specifically, if they were given a briefing

579
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:01.400
at all before. I don't know. Yeah, I'm curious too because another

580
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:06.599
researcher, you may know him,
Robert Powell, who I've had on the

581
00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:13.000
show, and he's been looking into
nimit. He when he asked for information

582
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:17.840
when he was talking to Navy press, he had mentioned the tic tac Ufo

583
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:21.039
and they said, oh, yeah, we know about the tiktac Ufo.

584
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:23.400
And he was shocked that this was
common knowledge. But of course it could

585
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:29.840
have been this case or something else
that made it as popular. So yeah,

586
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:32.159
so I was curious of that.
So essentially, and we're gonna have

587
00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:37.679
to take a break here, but
essentially, as they're flying in to examine

588
00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:42.960
the area, they really they don't
know what they're looking for. They get

589
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:46.760
this request on whether they have weapons
or not, which kind of makes things

590
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:50.519
a little more strange. But they
don't know what they're going to be looking

591
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:53.719
for. Yeah, that's right,
and they don't know what it is yet.

592
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.159
So if you can imagine, they
just been told they wish they had

593
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:02.000
weapons, you know, and they're
going towards sometimes the unknown aircraft that's not

594
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:08.079
identified with a you know, iff
they call it identified friend or foe or

595
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:14.760
any kind of radio that's been they've
been able to communicate with this craft.

596
00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:17.880
So they're unsure, you know.
And I think that the wingman was a

597
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.199
little frightened by the whole thing.
Yeah, I can understand that. That's

598
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.480
really interesting. So we've got to
take a break right now. For those

599
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:30.480
of you listening on the podcast,
it will be just a short musical interlude

600
00:49:30.519 --> 00:50:12.880
and we'll be right back with David
Beatty. Welcome back to Open minds UFO

601
00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:17.119
Radio. I'm your host Alejandro Rojas, and we have the pleasure of having

602
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:22.679
Dave Beattie on, who created this
of course, great documentary on the Nimics

603
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:25.679
UFO case from two thousand and four
outside of San Diego. And we're at

604
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:34.000
the point where Fraver has gotten close
and now he sees the tic tac object.

605
00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:37.960
And one interesting thing that you just
mentioned, and that is in your

606
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:43.719
documentary, is that this object wasn't
just sitting there, No, it was

607
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:46.960
moving around it radically, you know. And I think that's the first thing

608
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:52.880
that Dave noticed, was that it
was behaving in a way that didn't make

609
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:58.760
sense. It was kind of moving
back and forth, you know, around

610
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:04.599
this disturbance. He interpreted it that
this thing was checking out the underwater disturbance

611
00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:07.119
like it was. You know,
he kind of described it, this disturbance

612
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:09.679
as looking like a seven thirty seven. He said, this thing was by

613
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:13.880
the wing on the right side,
kind of went up by the cockpit and

614
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:21.360
was kind of like checking out this
water disturbance. And again, you know,

615
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:23.480
I don't think he saw it in
Iraq. You know, again,

616
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:30.679
he's never said that he saw this
white tic tac looking object going in the

617
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:35.480
water or doing anything else other than
just flying above it. You know,

618
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.440
I know that I know that the
Wingman jet they reported seeing the object a

619
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:45.199
little higher altitude, like transitioning across
their field of view at maybe two thousand

620
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:50.440
feet. That's when the first time
they picked it up. But Dave Freber

621
00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:54.880
went down much lower, like from
twenty thousand. He told his wingmen,

622
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:59.440
you know, stay here in high
cover. I'm gonna go check this out.

623
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:04.719
So he just takes off and begins
diving down closer and closer to the

624
00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:10.000
water surface. And I can I
can go keep going if you want,

625
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:13.840
or you want to go for it. Yeah, So okay. So he's

626
00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:17.800
going down and I believe that it
was like maybe around ten thousand feet or

627
00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:22.400
so, or maybe a little less
than that that this object suddenly seems to

628
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:28.519
take notice of him, like it
begins pointing at him, and again he

629
00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:34.400
describes it as a white porcelain like
tic tac, you know, like a

630
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:44.280
capsule with no discernible wings, propulsion, any kind of you know, engines

631
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:49.760
or any anything else. He did
at one point describe a couple of little

632
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:57.199
appendages that he said he saw in
the video later. So anyways, he's

633
00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:00.000
watching it. It seems to like
turn and point at his and then begin

634
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:07.679
coming up, and he is passing
it on the like if it would be

635
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:12.559
on his three o'clock basically the right
side of his jet. He's passing it

636
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:16.960
and he begins a slow circle the
object. It's coming up and it begins

637
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:22.519
mirroring his circle. So now if
you can imagine a big circle in the

638
00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:27.719
sky, he's on one side of
the circle and this object is coming up

639
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:32.519
on the other and it's basically mirroring
his turn rate. And as this Doug

640
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:37.920
fight begins with the UFO, So
if you can imagine two fighter jets,

641
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.239
they do the same thing. They're
trying to get on each other's tail.

642
00:53:43.639 --> 00:53:47.800
And it's almost an aggressive move when
you have a turning circle like that,

643
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:53.480
because it's like this other object's trying
to get on my tail, and in

644
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:58.599
you know, I guess in fighter
tactics, that's what you do. So,

645
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:01.480
you know, I think he was
kind of concerned with this, you

646
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:06.199
know, right, you know,
and it reminds me of Nick Pope,

647
00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:10.039
and I forget why this might have
been after Chicago hair. Nick Popo,

648
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:14.840
of course, used to work for
the Ministry of Defense investigating UFOs, had

649
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:19.559
brought up on this Fox News interview
that just kind of threw it out there

650
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:22.320
while they were asking about UFOs.
There's been dogfights and the host was like,

651
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:25.679
what dog fights and he says,
yes, essentially kind of a cat

652
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:29.719
and mouse in the air. Note
that there's been, you know, an

653
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:34.760
exchange of fire or anything. And
the host seemed absolutely shocked by that.

654
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:37.840
But this is a perfect example of
what he was talking about. Yeah,

655
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:43.360
you know, if you do some
research, you will find you know that

656
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:47.440
there are cases of dog fights,
you know, some very famous ones.

657
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:52.599
This one, you know, remarkable
in the case that it kind of played

658
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:57.599
out in front of all these pilots. You know, there are the four

659
00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:02.360
eyewitnesses and then the radar our witnesses
back on the ships are all looking at

660
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:10.280
this intercept happen and they're all listening. Even the USS Princeton can hear talk

661
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.000
back in their control room of these
pilots, so they're hearing the radio cause

662
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:20.719
these concern cause of you know,
they basically have contact, you know,

663
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:27.159
they're engaged with something. Again,
it would be wonderful to have those recordings,

664
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.119
which we don't from from what I
understand of those radio calls. But

665
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:36.960
you know, this object begins mirroring
him, and they're coming down. He's

666
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:42.360
coming down in altitude and at some
point he decides that he's gonna take an

667
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:47.760
aggressive movement to try to bring this
object on his nose, and so he

668
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:54.159
turns his jet rapidly to the right
and dives down to gain speed and momentum

669
00:55:54.559 --> 00:56:00.400
and quickly bring the nose of his
jet to point ahead of this object,

670
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:06.000
this forty seven foot long tic tac, which is approximately a mile away from

671
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:08.360
him at this point. And in
my film, you know, there's some

672
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:14.079
very good visuals that I did recreations
where I, you know, calculated those

673
00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:17.079
distances and put the objects in perspective
of what it looked like a like a

674
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:23.039
mile away across the circle. And
so as he does this, almost immediately

675
00:56:23.079 --> 00:56:29.760
the object, you know, reacts
to him by turning towards him again,

676
00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:35.119
one end of it turns towards him, and it just basically flies past them,

677
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:37.679
like he says, hypersonic, like
it was gone in like a blink

678
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:42.920
of an eye, like one second, it's there and it's gone past beyond

679
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.039
the horizon. And they all saw
this happen, you know, off ward,

680
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:52.079
these pilots saw this thing just like
keep gone, and they're just left

681
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:58.000
going did that just happen? M
hm. And so then of course you

682
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:01.079
know they're they're going to call you
know, I think what they did before,

683
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:05.400
you know, they laughed, they
because people asked me this and I

684
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:07.880
didn't have it in the movie.
They're like, what happened to the thing

685
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:12.199
in the ocean? Where did that? What happened to the the UFO and

686
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.360
the ocean? And I'm like,
well, they went back to the disturbance

687
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:21.119
and it was gone. There was
no trace of it on the surface of

688
00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:27.320
the ocean after this dog fight.
Next, the next thing that happens is

689
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:31.320
they call back to the Princeton and
the Princeton radar, you know, the

690
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:37.360
air air traffic control poison I believe, says sir, You're not going to

691
00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:44.039
believe this, but that object on
that you were tracking, it's now at

692
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:52.159
your cat point. And that was
surprising because the cat point is not known

693
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:55.719
by anyone. First of all,
it's a classified coordinate that the fighter jets

694
00:57:55.960 --> 00:58:01.559
basically go to after they launch.
They would go to the cat point to

695
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:05.960
form up with other planes and get
ready to go off and do their mission,

696
00:58:06.039 --> 00:58:08.159
and you know, when they're in, when they're done with their mission,

697
00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:12.639
they sometimes fly back to their cat
point before they land in the carrier.

698
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:16.159
So the fact that this object was
basically sitting on their cat point was

699
00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:20.760
a little disconcerting to the pilots,
like, how did they know where our

700
00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:24.199
cap point was? And how far
away was the cat point? It's my

701
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:29.119
understanding, was about forty miles away. And that's the other problem. How

702
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:32.960
did it get to the cat point
that fast? You know, in a

703
00:58:34.039 --> 00:58:37.719
jet it's not that far, but
this thing was like there apparently like within

704
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:43.400
seconds. So and the cap point, Yeah, forty miles away is pretty

705
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:47.920
far. And for you know,
this thing to choose any place to go

706
00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:53.599
to, Yeah, that's pretty weird. Yeah, I know that. You

707
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:59.280
know, a white capsule, how
I mean it makes it. It begs

708
00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:04.559
a lot of questions as to how
it knew where the cat point was it

709
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:09.199
was? Could it listen into you
know, whoever was controlling it was obviously

710
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:15.679
intelligently control. Could they listen into
military radio, you know, secure radio?

711
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:19.840
Was this a cap point that they
had met at earlier in the day

712
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:25.400
when they began their training. That's
my understanding them they can have more than

713
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:30.880
one cat point, but David Fraber
just said the cat point, so I'm

714
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:35.119
assuming that, Yeah, yeah,
correct, they could have observed if they

715
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:38.920
had gone there before and loitered there
for a while before they you know,

716
00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:44.719
it could have You're absolutely correct,
you know, so fascinating, and you

717
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:49.159
know, what is really fascinating about
this case is like Nick Pope said,

718
00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:53.360
or like we were referring to earlier, especially if you look at Blue Book,

719
00:59:53.440 --> 01:00:00.840
because really that's the biggest record we
have of military cases. Do you

720
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:07.320
see this over and over again even
with other militaries in Chili in Brazil.

721
01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:13.800
You know, where an object is
spotted, jets are scrambled, They kind

722
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:17.079
of have a little bit of a
cat and mouse before the object just shoots

723
01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:22.400
off at an amazing speed nineteen fifty
two over Washington, d C. Same

724
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:30.679
thing. Yeah, yeah, I
mean it's really interesting to look at a

725
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:36.360
craft that doesn't seem to have any
type of propulsion system based on conventional aviation

726
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:42.559
and aeronautics. It doesn't have flight
surfaces, control surfaces, nassials that you

727
01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:46.840
know might be a jet engine,
propellers, you know, it doesn't seem

728
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:53.079
these objects oftentimes don't seem to have
anything, yet they're able to jet away

729
01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:59.599
at like unbelievable speeds, you know, let alone hover and fly around.

730
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:07.239
So you have probably seen the executive
report that George Knapp leaped through Klas,

731
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:13.800
and that's a pretty extraordinary document.
I guess my first question will be,

732
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:19.239
uh, what is your understanding of
the origins of that document. Well,

733
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:25.159
again, you know George, you
know, revealed that document on his iteam

734
01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:34.119
KLAS investigation. You know, my
understanding is that that document was produced at

735
01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:40.000
a briefing that was set up with
mister Reed Senter Reid. I mean,

736
01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:45.119
I guess that I would say it
came from a tip. It either came

737
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:50.159
from a tip or it came from
Bass and you know Big OL's company during

738
01:01:50.199 --> 01:01:57.199
the d I A contract the AWSAP
program that George also revealed. I think

739
01:01:57.199 --> 01:02:01.320
that those those investigations and study were
done during that program. M h.

740
01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:07.119
Yeah. From what I understand,
it was written by the military for the

741
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:13.039
military. It's a term and I
but what the reason I ask is,

742
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.320
it's it's fascinating in that I know
Fravor speaks to it and says, you

743
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:23.199
know, that's accurate, and that
there was a sub in the area as

744
01:02:23.239 --> 01:02:28.119
part of the strike group that didn't
hear anything under the water, which is

745
01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:34.039
kind of strange because they visually visually
saw something. But what's interesting about that

746
01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:38.320
report is some of the assumptions that
are made, like they they speculate.

747
01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:44.079
I shouldn't say they don't assume,
because they do call it out as speculation,

748
01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:50.079
but they seems in the report they
feel pretty strongly that the potential that

749
01:02:50.360 --> 01:02:54.400
something was under the water and it
just might not have been able to be

750
01:02:54.480 --> 01:03:00.159
picked up by their Yeah, well
that's very very perceptive, and there was

751
01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:06.239
a whole discussion about that, I
think last week in my Facebook group,

752
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:12.480
I brought up the point that why
are there two observables listed in the executive

753
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:15.079
summary that don't seem to be attached
to any witnesses. I said, the

754
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:22.320
other observables flight characteristics of these unknown
seem to be backed up by Commander Fraverer

755
01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:28.119
and Kevin Day and the other witnesses
that were there that day. But there's

756
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:36.519
these two, one being that the
object could cloak said possibly cloak and become

757
01:03:36.559 --> 01:03:42.039
invisible to the eye and radar systems. And the other one, as you

758
01:03:42.199 --> 01:03:47.360
mentioned, was that it possibly could
operate under sea and avoid detection. So,

759
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:52.679
yeah, it's kind of interesting.
I would love to know how they

760
01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:57.039
came to that conclusion. Maybe it
was based on the fact that the submarine,

761
01:03:57.159 --> 01:04:01.599
the USS Louisville, did not hold
sonar contract contact on that day.

762
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:06.760
I'm not sure. M hm.
Yeah, that they're very strong statements.

763
01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:13.559
I guess maybe because the hawkeye couldn't
see it, and why they think it

764
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.920
had some sort of stealth property.
Of course it had very smooth it was

765
01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:19.000
like a tic tack. So I
don't know, maybe them rounded and yeah

766
01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:25.360
or something if if they thought it
could cloak. Obviously somebody must have reported

767
01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:29.360
that it disappeared and maybe you know, it just took off at a high

768
01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:32.920
speed and they thought it disappeared.
But it's an interesting, uh observation for

769
01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:40.119
sure. Yeah, go ahead.
So so you just mentioned the hawkeye.

770
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:45.360
Yah one of the new witnesses that
came forward, And I've vetted these these

771
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:47.320
guys pretty well. I mean,
they're telling me a story. Obviously I

772
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.440
don't have proof, but I know
who they are, and they did check

773
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:56.360
their backgrounds. One of the people
that came forward said that he was in

774
01:04:56.440 --> 01:05:00.079
the eat to Hawkeye, you know
that was on scene. There may have

775
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:04.280
been one or two that were in
the air that day, and he said

776
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:10.519
he told me that they saw the
tic tac, which is not in any

777
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:15.239
other report. He said that at
one point in the flight, everyone in

778
01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:20.079
that crew saw an object that sort
of for a few seconds it formed up

779
01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:26.039
on their hawkeye and then took off
at the same day. Yeah. Wow,

780
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:30.639
And I said, well, you
know, I asked him a few

781
01:05:30.679 --> 01:05:36.280
questions. He's very reluctant to talk
to me. He he claims that after

782
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:41.920
the flight, when they landed in
the Hawkeye, that he was he and

783
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:46.679
the crew were taken into a secure
air on the ship sort of deep briefed

784
01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:51.280
about this event, told that it
didn't happen, don't talk about it,

785
01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:57.519
and he says he had to sign
a non disclosure agreement, and so the

786
01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:00.719
fact that he was even admitting that
he would is there. Said you know,

787
01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:05.639
he couldn't first of all go on
the record, and he didn't want

788
01:06:05.679 --> 01:06:11.239
to talk about it too much based
on that, hmm. Yeah. So

789
01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:15.719
it's not the strongest primary witness,
but quite interesting that this guy is saying

790
01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:19.920
that, you know, the whole
crew of the E two Hawkeye saw the

791
01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:27.800
tic TAC h that, yeah,
because there's more eyewitnesses than to this object.

792
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.280
Yeah yeah, and there are none
of the reports. That's strange to

793
01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:35.960
me a little bit because I know
that both you know, a TIP and

794
01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:42.719
TTSA and all of the groups that
were studying this. In fact, going

795
01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:47.199
back to Paco Cherici from Fighter Sweep, he he told me that he when

796
01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:54.239
he wrote his article, he said
that he used the Naval Intelligence Services NIS

797
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:59.840
report that was classified, and he
thought that the executive summary was very similar

798
01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:03.960
to the ANI asked report that he
used. Oh that is really interesting.

799
01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:08.920
Yeah, it's interesting. But in
none of those reports does it say that

800
01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:12.760
the Hawkeye crew saw anything. But
then again, this guy said they had

801
01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:15.559
to sign NDA, so maybe they
kept their mouth shut. You know,

802
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:21.360
there's another reason too that they might
not have spoken. I'll get into that.

803
01:07:21.400 --> 01:07:26.840
But what were you going to mention
just now? Well, the original

804
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:33.079
person that came forward with the Wallbanger
squadron is willing to you know, talk

805
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:36.000
and tell his story. His name
is P. J. Hughes. He

806
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:42.639
was on the nimits that day.
His job was an aviation technician and he

807
01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.519
describes it as like, you know, when the Hawkeyes take off, they

808
01:07:45.559 --> 01:07:51.360
basically get the planes ready for the
air crews to board them and so on.

809
01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:57.199
They make sure that all maintenance concerns
are a dressed and the radios and

810
01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:01.199
the crypto radios are programmed properly,
you know, so that the pilots just

811
01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:05.119
get on and are ready to fly
the mission. He says that when his

812
01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:11.519
friends Hawkeye landed that day, they
got off the plane left. He took

813
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:15.600
the secure data bricks they call him
off the plane, and these are highly

814
01:08:15.600 --> 01:08:25.600
classified intelligence gathering drives that contain data
link information. It's like a type of

815
01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:30.960
radar stuff that the strike group uses, very sophisticated, and his job was

816
01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:34.520
to take him downstairs to his shop, put him in a in the in

817
01:08:34.560 --> 01:08:42.600
the Hawkeyes shop secure safe. He
even described the safe as being like a

818
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:47.800
safe that requires two people to open. So he they logged the serial numbers

819
01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:54.079
of these drives in and hour or
so later, there's a knock at his

820
01:08:54.199 --> 01:08:59.840
door in the shop and his commanding
officers there with what he describes are two

821
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:05.239
United States Air Force officers or personnel, and they want the hard drive,

822
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:11.399
and so PJ says, okay,
they have to get another guy to open

823
01:09:11.479 --> 01:09:15.680
up the safe. They give him
this hard drive and the guy says,

824
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:17.359
sign them out to me. The
commanding officer he's like, sign out the

825
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:21.840
hard drive to me because you won't
be getting him back. And the commanding

826
01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:26.760
officer and the two Air Force guys
leave and the last thing you ever saw

827
01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:33.159
them. So that's a very interesting
story that has not been told by any

828
01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:41.680
of the previous reports we've seen.
That is a really interesting story. And

829
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:47.119
what's interesting also, I mean that
that's a super interesting of course, and

830
01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:50.159
there's so much to get into,
and we're boad out of time. But

831
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:55.199
the last dropping and dropping that bomb
on you right now, Yeah, you're

832
01:09:55.199 --> 01:10:00.600
blowing my mind. But by the
way people said, oh me being mistaked,

833
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:02.159
I go, he's like Dave,
he goes, I know what navy

834
01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:05.960
flight suits look like. I know
what army flight suits look like. These

835
01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:12.239
were United States States Air Force flight
suits with insignia at them. I did

836
01:10:12.279 --> 01:10:15.199
not mistake who I was looking at. That's what PJ told me. So

837
01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:17.000
and I think that makes sense.
I mean, it makes perfect sense.

838
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:21.039
Of course, this has been in
their purview for a long time, so

839
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:26.640
you know, and that's that's the
hard part where we've all been looking at

840
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:30.680
who's looking at this? Where did
these records reside? And we haven't answered

841
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:33.079
that question. But that makes sense. Well, you know, going back

842
01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:39.000
to this case, Commander Fraber has
you know, said over and over that

843
01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:45.479
no one ever said not to talk, no one ever took anything, no

844
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:47.399
one ever even mentioned this. They
just made fun of us. This was

845
01:10:47.399 --> 01:10:50.800
not classified. You know, they
made a joke of it when we got

846
01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:55.439
back. That's been portrayed over and
over and over. But all of a

847
01:10:55.479 --> 01:10:59.680
sudden, I'm hearing this other alternate
story that wait, people were told it

848
01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:03.399
didn't happen. Sign here, don't
ever talk about it. Where's the hard

849
01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.159
drive? You know, the air
Force is here to take them, you

850
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:11.000
know, like that's kind of a
different story. But again, you know,

851
01:11:11.800 --> 01:11:15.680
it is a story. So but
what isn't is you know, and

852
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:20.239
this is in the executive report,
and they made a big deal about it,

853
01:11:20.279 --> 01:11:25.479
is this high level of ridicule that
these guys faced when they got back,

854
01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:30.159
yeah to the aircraft carrier, Which
is right, I mean a little

855
01:11:30.199 --> 01:11:39.960
bit telling, and it's disappointing,
but it also demonstrates very strongly what we've

856
01:11:40.000 --> 01:11:44.199
heard from other military and stuff is
why someone would be hesitant to talk about

857
01:11:44.239 --> 01:11:48.000
anything. Yeah, that's true because
from my understanding, and I think you

858
01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:51.640
probably know this as well, at
least one of the pilots or one of

859
01:11:51.680 --> 01:12:00.319
the people involved maybe more, got
extremely upset about this ridicule. Yeah,

860
01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:02.760
that's right. I mean, I
mean we've seen it. You know,

861
01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:06.600
if you follow the subject, you
see it in the media a lot.

862
01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:14.920
I was kind of disheartened by the
Fox News one interview that they did where

863
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:21.439
they started out with the kind of
mocking you know, UFO alien implant stuff,

864
01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:27.920
and then they cut directly to Commander
Fravor these military heroes. Those guys

865
01:12:27.920 --> 01:12:30.479
didn't see that. I mean,
they're sitting there in a studio and they're

866
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:33.720
really being sort of mocked. Really, and you may know the show that

867
01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:36.760
I'm talking about, but when they
I think when they got back on the

868
01:12:36.760 --> 01:12:41.439
ship, the same thing happened.
There was the tinfoil hats and like jokes

869
01:12:41.479 --> 01:12:46.359
about the X Files and Little Green
Men and yeah, it makes you want

870
01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:49.640
to kind of just like not talk
about it, you know, mm hmm.

871
01:12:50.199 --> 01:12:56.399
And especially in these you know,
these very high testaasterone sort of yeah

872
01:12:56.680 --> 01:13:00.880
environments. Could you hear cops say
the same thing often? And because we

873
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:03.960
like to, you know, guys
are often making fun of each other and

874
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:08.960
stuff. And although it's fun in
games, it doesn't you know, guys

875
01:13:09.039 --> 01:13:13.000
have feelings and they don't want to
be the butt of ridicule or because this

876
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:16.520
is yeah, if this is your
career and you have a security clearance,

877
01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:23.399
you're flying multi million dollar aircraft,
that are armed to the teeth. You

878
01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:27.840
know, you're the guy that saw
the UFO. Huh right, well right,

879
01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:31.000
that could follow you. So it
takes a lot of courage to stop

880
01:13:31.039 --> 01:13:34.359
forward. And most of these guys
are retired and that's why they're able to

881
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:39.239
do that. I can see why
somebody that's active duty would just like shut

882
01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:43.199
their mouth and I'll ever want to
talk about it because of that possible career

883
01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:46.640
ending move, you know. Mm
hmm. Well, thank you so much.

884
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:49.960
We're out of time, but I
want you to share with people where

885
01:13:49.960 --> 01:13:54.279
they can find you, where they
can find more information. So for instant

886
01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:58.560
the Facebook group you mentioned, what's
it called and how can people participate?

887
01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:01.399
Yeah, reach out to me on
Facebook, Dave C. Batty. You

888
01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:11.079
can message me there. The website
is www dot the NIMTS Encounter with ans

889
01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:16.760
dot com and also the NIMENS Encounters
on Facebook. You can find information about

890
01:14:16.760 --> 01:14:21.560
the film and some research I did
and some of the documents we talked about

891
01:14:21.560 --> 01:14:26.960
today. That is so awesome.
Thank you so much for all of this

892
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:31.159
great work that you're doing in this
incredible video, and thank you so much

893
01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:35.720
for being on the show. Thank
you alhandro. I appreciate it. Thank

894
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:40.680
you so much to Dave Baty for
being on the show. You've got to

895
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:44.239
see his video if you haven't seen
it yet, really, you can just

896
01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:47.720
google the Nimics Encounter YouTube. That's
what I do usually to find it,

897
01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:53.079
and it's got one point four million
hits, so you know it's very popular,

898
01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:57.239
so it pops right up. But
you can also do that in Facebook

899
01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:02.119
and look for the Nimts Encounters dot
com and find out more about this great

900
01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:08.079
video and some of the stuff that
he's into following up with witnesses and so

901
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:12.079
he's done some great work. Was
a great pleasure to have him on the

902
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:15.520
show. I also want to let
you know about a couple other things in

903
01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:19.560
the show links. You can see
my Patreon site and that's where you can

904
01:15:19.600 --> 01:15:24.239
find some of the other stuff I'm
doing. Of course, my open Mind

905
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:29.000
stat TV stuff you can find that
there, but my Den of Geek stories

906
01:15:29.039 --> 01:15:32.359
and others, and sometimes I'll link
to those stories in from open mindstat tv

907
01:15:32.439 --> 01:15:34.560
as well, so you'll be able
to find some. But if you go

908
01:15:34.640 --> 01:15:40.399
look for Alejandro t Rojas on Patreon, you'll find all of that stuff and

909
01:15:40.720 --> 01:15:44.800
more. And I also remind want
to remind you about the UFO Congress,

910
01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:48.520
so we're still working on the Congress
itself, but there'll be new information up

911
01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:55.000
shortly. But the store has so
much cool stuff in it, So go

912
01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:59.359
to store dot Ufocongress dot com or
just UFO Congress dot com or find the

913
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:03.680
link below depending on how you're listening
or viewing this, and you'll be able

914
01:16:03.720 --> 01:16:08.960
to check it out. We've got
these cool pocket watches, We've got some

915
01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.840
baby clothes, all kinds of stuff
that we're putting up in the next day

916
01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:14.960
or two, so check that out. Really cool stuff. Plus we got

917
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.840
to pay the bill, so bye
bye bye, and we will ship ship

918
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:23.800
ship and you'll have some cool UFO
and Alien products. Otherwise, I want

919
01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:28.399
to thank Martin Willis from Podcast UFO
for joining us for the news as usual,

920
01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:31.479
I want to thank Caleb Hanks for
the opening and close music. I

921
01:16:31.520 --> 01:16:36.640
want to thank Systematics for the bumper
music, and of course, as usual,

922
01:16:38.039 --> 01:16:42.199
I want to thank you the listener
for being here once again. We'll

923
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:46.199
have another great show next week.
Until then, Audios, mood Chutchos,

924
01:17:21.800 --> 01:17:36.439
and you must