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Hello, and welcome to the show. This is Martin. Willis your host,

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and our guest tonight is a repeat
guests, Class Vaughn from Sweden.

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I always enjoy our discussion and I'm
sure you will as well. And we're

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gonna be talking about all kinds of
interesting topics tonight and Class is Chairman of

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Ore for the Archives of the Unexplained, otherwise known as a FU. We're

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gonna be talking about that. He's
also the International director of UFO Sweden,

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among many other hats that he wears. Class will be coming up in just

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a few few minutes here. I
do want to thank everyone for helping out

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and supporting the show. Anyone can
do that. How you can see our

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Patreon banner over at our website at
podcast ufo dot com. And while you're

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there, check out our blog this
week from Charles lear Um and this week's

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blog is called UFOs and the twenty
first Century. It's a great one.

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Another great blog that I forgot to
mention last week is titled UFOs Spaceman,

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Ultra Terrestrials or what the Strange Case
of Woodrow, Daring Burger and Strange Den.

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We're getting some feedback here, Hm
that was that was strange. I'm

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not sure where the feedback's coming from. Um Anyway, it sounded great actually,

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So that is a really that's an
interesting case, I was saying.

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And there's an audio interview, so
check that out. That happened back in

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nineteen sixty six. Who was interviewed, I think the next day, and

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so that clip is up there too. In that blog. I've mentioned several

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times over the last several years that
Australia is well actually per capita as our

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number one listener to this show,
and I want to give a shout out

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to all those people in Australia and
let you know that we are thinking about

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you. And it's a terrible these
bush fires out there. Feel so bad

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for all the people that are misplaced
and all the poor animals out there.

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It's really terrible. So hang in
there, Australia. Also, in the

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news, there's a lot of people
writing me about the Navy. You know,

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it seems like every week you get
some someone's writing me about the Navy.

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And headlines that were sent out this
week top secret UFO files could gravely

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damage US national security if released,
the Navy says, and it does seem

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like the Navy has been very outspoken
about the UFO topic these days, and

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that's almost as mysterious as UFOs themselves. And I'm wondering what the heck the

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agenda is, if any If the
Navy has an agenda, it's it's interesting

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and we will know eventually, That's
all I can say. But for now

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it's just a mystery, and I
think it's time to pull in our guests.

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Class Faun, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm glad to

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be back. Yes, and it's
midnight over there, so I really appreciate

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you staying up late for us over
here in the East coast. Oh,

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not the problem. It's dark and
the wintry, but no snow here in

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Sweeten Adult. Oh yeah. You
know a lot of people have been writing

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me and saying, oh, you
poor thing, you got all the snow.

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I'm right on the coast, so
I right now we just have a

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little dusting and that's it. We've
been really lucky, really lucky this year,

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so I'll take it. Not much
of a fan of but so class,

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can you for the person that I
think it was over a year ago

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you were on last time, But
for the person that is unaware of your

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you know who you are, basically, can you give them your background and

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kind of a nutshell because a lot
of people have heard you a number of

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times. Yeah, I've been around
as a geophologists since nineteen seventy four when

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I started a small uful society in
my hometown in the south of Sweden,

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and since then I spent nearly every
day a couple of hours researching UFO cases.

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And I'm interested in the topic because
I really want to know the answer.

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I haven't told the answers. I
want to know what people sees in

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the sky, and I try to
help people to identify what they see in

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the skies. But what is left
the really eVols. That is of course

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the thing that gets me ticking.
And I've been a chairman for You of

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Sweden for many, many years,
but since a couple of years back we

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decided that some younger person than Niche
should take takeover and I'm no wise chairman

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and I work a lot with international
contexts in You of Sweden, which is

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very important. And I also of
course sherman for Archives for the Unexplained,

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which is this huge archive we run, yes, the archive that it's really

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amazing. You and I have talked
before about I think you're telling me you're

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your shelves. The shelve space you
have of UFO related box is there's none

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other in the world right now.
It's the largest in the world. Really,

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it's nothing to compare with. We
started uniting MITY three in one locality

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in the south of Sweden and now
we have fourteen localities in the same area

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in north Shipping, which is five
hundred square meters six hundred square yards and

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a shelf capacity of three kilometers which
is nearly five miles. So yeah,

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we started with one bookshelf and now
we have several and the library is fifty

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five thousand books and eighty thousand magazines
and more than fifty thousand case files from

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different countries, millions of documents and
use paper clippings, recordings and yeah,

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TV programs, paraphernalia. We collect
everything regarding the unknown, from uphos to

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ghosts and can is that open to
the public, like, can someone come

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in and do some research there themselves. Yes, we are open to the

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public, and of course if you
are knocking our door, we can help

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you. But we can also help
you through internet through a special download site

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that we have. We published some
magazines that we are scanning all the time,

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which we have the clearance from the
copyright told her we published them on

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our download side, so you can
go there, but you can email us

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and ask for help. And if
you do, see we are we are

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there for everyone, really who's interested
in the topic. I really like visuals

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and this. I'm going to hold
up your book here. Let's see.

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I think I can do that here, hang on just a second. Well,

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I had a screen where I could
just pull in on this, but

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I'm not seeing where it is.
Let's try this, okay, all right,

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so it's called just trying to adjust
it. They're files of the Unexplained,

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the hidden history of the forgotten,
Photographs from the world of the unknown.

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And it's a great I love this
book. Thank you for sending it,

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by the way. But there's so
many wonderful graphics in this all the

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way through and all the way up
to modern times. You have. You

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have quite a variety, quite a
variety in there. And what is your

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what is the earliest book you have
on the shelf that talks about UFOs.

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Well, if you go back to
the oldest book at all, it's from

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the sixteen hundreds about Nostra Damas that
we have of course books from Charles fort

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his early books from the early nineteen
hundreds, which probably is the oldest real

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ureful books. But we go further
back we have books that or older as

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well, when enigmas or mysteries in
disguise did not have any label. They

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were just called meteors, which is
at that time was the name for strange

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things that you could see in disguise. So we have round fifty five thousand

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books. Of course many of them
are old, but lots of them are

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our newables as well. And what
about the languages? Do you have them

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in multiple languages? Yeah, of
course most of them are in English,

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but we have a very large collection
in Russia. We had a guy from

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Tokyo coming to us looking through our
Japanese collections, stayed for a couple of

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days. We have really any language
that we can collect, lots of French

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books and of course every European language
we can can find. Wow interesting,

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And so where do you get where
do you get all this material? Anyway,

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then we get there from all over
the world, not come from Great

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Britain and the norther countries of course, but also the rest of Europe and

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the US. And when we get
surplus books and magazines, we sell them

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through our shop, AFU shop,
so we can get money and we can

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also help researchers from all over the
world to get titles that they cannot find

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on Amazon or anywhere else. Really, we have so many hard to find

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books that we have maybe multiple copies
of them, so we can help researchers

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with them. I remember the last
time we talked in this baffles me.

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It's that your country basically takes us
topic seriously or you get very little ridicule

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of any Is that right, Yeah, that's right, that's right. They're

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still right, And it's very much
up to you for Sweden and our work,

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I should say, because we have
always been treated very good from the

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authority, but maybe not always.
That's the last thirty years or something like

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that, because we have shown them
that we are a serious partner, that

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we don't have the answers. We
are not speculating. We want to know

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what uf US are, and of
course they want as well. So we

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have now copies of I think every
single UFO report that have passed through the

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Swedish defense notorities since the early nineteen
hundreds up till a couple of years back.

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And that is a very very good
corporation. Wow. And that includes

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the ghost Rockets absolutely. It includes
the ghost Flyers from the nineteen thirties and

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the ghost Rockets. The ghost Flyers
are not that very well known as the

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ghost Rockets. But just a couple
of weeks ago we got all the printed

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papers from the Swedish War Archives regarding
the ghost flyers, which was an earlier

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phenomenon scanned. It's a thousands of
the five thousand, five hundred scanned pages

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of reports and investigations into these early
nineteen thirties phenomenon that really baffled the Swedish

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military for many years. Wow.
Because you know, I mean for the

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most part, people will talk about, you know, the modern UFO era

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as nineteen forty seven roswell on,
but there was and then of course there

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were the food fighters that people were
seeing during World War Two, but not

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not like what you seem to be
talking about. Can you go into more

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detail about you said there are five
thousand scans, so can you go into

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more detail about what people thought they
were seeing? Yeah? I mean it

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was during a couple of years in
the middle of the nineteen thirties that people

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saw first lights in the sky,
which I mean people do in a hoodays

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as well, but they were flying
in very strange patterns and over areas that

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were controlled by the military. But
they also saw what they thought were aircraft,

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aircraft coming flying over the north and
part northern part of their aircraft chasing

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this ghost flyer, but they never
caught him or were even near him.

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Some of them this aircraft, one
of them at least crashed, So it

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was up under parliamentary discussion, and
they were really really interested in in pinpointing

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which country they thought it was the
Germans, maybe the Russians, or did

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those those flyovers over Sweden and intrusions
over Sweden. But they never really got

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the hang of it. Most of
the observations were, of course misinterpretations,

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as always, some of them are
still a little strange. Wow. And

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then I always loved talking about the
ghost rockets nineteen forty six. Is that

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is that when that was happening?
Yeah? Yeah, And for the person

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that's not And they landed, and
one of them landed in lakes, which

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is another mystery for the person that's
unfamiliar with the ghost rockets. Can you

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get a little bit into that topic
please? Yeah. To me, the

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ghost rockets is the most interesting UFO
phenomenon ab I think because they were seen

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during nineteen forty six around may Abound
until December of that year. And as

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you said, many of those rockets
they look like cigars with without small wings,

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and some of them were crashing into
lakes. And the interesting thing was

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that everyone that did crash always crashed
into a lake, and it was nearly

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always around eleven twelve o'clock in the
middle of the day, broad daylight and

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also sunshine, and you could see
the sun shining on the hull on those

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rockets. You can hear them,
you can see the water column when they

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were crashing, and you can also
hear the crash. And even though the

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militaries spent thousands of hours trying to
find a solution, they never did.

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I thought they were the Russians,
of course, but I don't think it

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was neither the military. They could
never prove that they were any any country

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that were driving those rockets. And
what did they report as far as the

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sound? What were they hearing for
a sound while they were hearing like a

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motor, like an engine, and
they were really looking like like cigar shaped

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opjects. They were very much like
the V bombs that not to romany juiced

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during the last years of the Second
World War. But compared to the V

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bombs when they crashed, the V
bombs left debris, maybe thousands of kilos

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a couple of tons of debris.
But those schools rockets never left anything,

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not a trace after them. So
even though they looked like rockets, they

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didn't behave like rockets, and they
didn't were identified as rockets either. Didn't

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you maybe maybe thinking of something else, but didn't someone see one, and

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more recently than nineteen forty six,
like a couple or something that was hiking.

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You know, we have multiple observations
after nineteen forty six, quite a

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few, but the one that you
are thinking about happen in nineteen eighty in

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summer nineteen eighty, when a couple
were out hiking up in the very north

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of Sweden. It was in a
natural park called the Murders Natural Park and

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they were walking home back to their
car, which was a couple of hours

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down the road, and they stopped
to take a break when they were standing

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there at the end of this lake, Lake Namaya. They heard strange sound

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from the south and they looked up
and I saw those small missile like object

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with the protrusions on both of the
side, like wings or tanks or whatever.

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It was flying over them, just
one hundred yards up in the air.

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And it passed over them, and
they could see it flying down towards

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the lake and suddenly reverse one hundred
eighty degrees, flying back towards them,

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and then they were really scared,
but they thought this will hit us.

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But instead of hitting them, the
ghost rocket landed with splash on the lake

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and started sinking, and they could
see it sinking on bubbles of air coming

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up. And when it vanished,
they they really tried to get from from

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this place as fast as they could
because they were thinking it could it could

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explode. And they went back to
the car a couple of hours to the

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west and drew down to Stockholm,
and they alerted the military who started an

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investigation into this. And did they
actually go into the lake itself to see

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if they could find anything. Now, it's quite impossible to do that.

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I mean, it was a couple
of hundred yards out into the lake and

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it's not easy. It's very cold
water, and they were scared and the

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military didn't he go there either.
They went. They went there with a

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helicopter and then looked to over the
lake and they landed and tried to find

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what it was, but they never
dived into lake. We did, We

206
00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:06,839
did in the two thousand and twelve
You did, oh in that particular lake.

207
00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:11,759
Yeah. We went there together with
the witnesses in two thousand and twelve

208
00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:21,240
and brought with us two criminal investigators
from Kiruna who are also were divers,

209
00:19:22,279 --> 00:19:30,640
and we mapped the seafloor with the
ZNAR and we found some interesting spots around

210
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:37,119
the spot where the witnesses had pointed
out the landing and the divers went down.

211
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:45,279
But what they found was that it
was four meters of mud and whatever

212
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,000
it was that I landed there,
it must have sunk underneath this mud.

213
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:55,240
So we went back two years later, two thousand and fourteen, with another

214
00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:59,519
equipment that could see through the mud, and at that point we did see

215
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:06,480
something. They're resting there in the
mud, but that's as far as it

216
00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:11,880
went. You never never dove down. Yeah. Is it very deep anything?

217
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,880
It's not deep it's only four yards
deep, and the four yards with

218
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,400
mud, but it's very difficult to
go down into the mud. It's very

219
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:27,680
dangerous. So we will go back
again with another instrument. Next winter we

220
00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:33,759
will be there with snowmobiles on the
ice. So drive this instrument that is

221
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:42,839
seeing in three dimensions and it will
it will paint this object and we will

222
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,720
see if it's a reindeer, if
it's a stone of here, maybe it's

223
00:20:48,759 --> 00:20:52,839
a ghost rocket. That will give
us the answer. Wow, well,

224
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,000
yeah, that's really something. Well
let's let's shift gears and get back to

225
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:03,920
um the AFUM because you and I
had a quick conversation m you know,

226
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:11,440
through email about I mentioned something about
Billy Meyer's photographs of selling at Southeby's for

227
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:17,759
over twenty thousand dollars, which is
really amazing. And what's your you know,

228
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:21,960
what is your thought on that?
I mean, how can something like

229
00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:26,720
that happen when you know most people
know it's a hoax? Are Yeah?

230
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,119
I mean, I know I'm going
to probably get a little bit of mail

231
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:36,319
from saying that, but U but
most people do believe that Billy Meyer was

232
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,960
hoaxing, even though you know he
he's handicapped and all that. But even

233
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:45,720
from the nineteen sixties. Uh,
you know, there's a lot of signs

234
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,359
of that. I mean, we
sent an investigated to Switzerland in the nineteen

235
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:56,240
late nineteen seventies, early nineteen eighties, I think it was early nineteen eighties.

236
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,319
It must have been two into you
Billy, to industrate the case.

237
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,400
He was elusive. He kept away
from our investigator, but we were able

238
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:11,160
to find other people and also find
a lot of traces that show that he

239
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:18,440
had manufactured his pictures. Of course, but I mean seventeen of his pictures.

240
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:22,440
I mean it's prints. It's not
even the negatives. I mean it's

241
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:29,000
prints sold for twenty four thousand dollars, which is amazing, of course it's

242
00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:32,759
I mean, we have loads of
prints from Billy Mayer. They have You

243
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:40,440
and the Princes that was sold at
sotherbis are not even first generation prints some

244
00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:45,400
of them. So I don't know
who really bought it. But we want

245
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,119
to believe, you know, they
want you want to believe poster. One

246
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,079
of those pictures are the one on
the we want to believe poster, and

247
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,759
that is what sold them. Of
course, I see, I never,

248
00:22:56,839 --> 00:23:02,079
I never, So it's it's yeah, it's pop culture thing kind of.

249
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,400
I think it's gets it. Yeah, but it's important to tell that those

250
00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:12,759
pictures came from the Wendell Stevens collection
and when Stevens collection were or scattered after

251
00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:18,079
his passing away, and he passed
away in two thousand and ten, and

252
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,759
we recently were able to acquire at
least half of this collection, which is

253
00:23:25,599 --> 00:23:30,920
one thousand kilos two thousand, two
hundred pounds, with the help of Jordan

254
00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:36,519
Peace from from Rhode Valley met the
Physical Library in Oregon. I met with

255
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,559
Jordans in California last summer and we
had an agreement that he sent all this

256
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:49,680
stuff to Sweden and AFU. So
we now have thousands and thousands and thousands

257
00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:57,559
of mails and I mean not emails, but letters that arrived were sent to

258
00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:03,160
Wendell Stevens, and all loads of
material regarding the Billy Mayer case that have

259
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:07,480
never been published and never been read
by anyone outside the Wendle Stevens family.

260
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:14,440
So we are now going through all
of this and trying to sort it out

261
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:18,440
and to start to scan the most
important parts. Wow. Wow, I've

262
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,640
heard I've heard about that collection.
Now I thought I must be mixing this

263
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,680
up. But I thought Open Minds
had purchased that collection. No, that's

264
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:34,039
right, but open Minds solved it
and I actually turned up at Rogue Valley

265
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:41,079
in Oregon. But the other part
we have also traced and I paid a

266
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:45,599
lot of money to get that to
sweet and it's a part with the photos

267
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:51,160
and all the pictures. But that
guy we paid the money to hasn't sent

268
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:56,079
anything to us yet, so maybe
he just sits on the money at and

269
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,000
never fulfill disagreement with us, so
that it is a problem. We really

270
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:06,559
want to fall the files, but
a few now we have to go at

271
00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:12,000
the break here in just a minute. But who funds these purchases for our

272
00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:18,000
your materials? Yeah, I mean, it's a good questions. It's us.

273
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:23,680
It's real, thirty people who are
putting between five US dollars and one

274
00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:30,680
hundred US dollars every month into a
few and we are also selling through a

275
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:37,000
few shop. But it's it's a
business that costs us money to do.

276
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:41,640
I don't earn a nickel from this, of course. I pay loads of

277
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,559
money every year to keep a few
afloat, and we do all of us.

278
00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:51,279
We have four people on this board, and we have a couple of

279
00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:56,200
guys around the world on advisory board
as well that helps us with this,

280
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:02,240
But we really need more people than
thirty sweets. It's only one from outside

281
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,160
Swedenen that is helping us, but
loads of people are asking for our help.

282
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,039
So yeah, you know, it's
a difficult talk. But what we

283
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,920
love to do with Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't. You wouldn't do it

284
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,799
if you didn't love it. All
right, we're ready to go in a

285
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,400
break. So this is Martin willis
my guest. Tonight is class onon and

286
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:25,319
hanging. They will be right back
right after these messages. Well, we're

287
00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:29,319
going to change the subject. We
can jump back a little bit on what

288
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:37,720
we're talking about. Um And but
as far as do you ever purchase material

289
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:47,000
that is you find out later that
it was hoaxed or or or you know,

290
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:52,039
purposely hoaxed, Has that ever happened? Has anyone kind of pulled the

291
00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:56,599
wall or try to pull the wall
over your eyes? And well, we've

292
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:03,279
already seldom purchased things at all,
whether Steven stuff are one of the few

293
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:10,440
we have paid for and we paid
very little money for it. So and

294
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,119
nevertheless, if we get the hoaxed
thing we do. We get pictures most

295
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,559
of the time. It's part of
the history. It's part of the UFO

296
00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:23,200
history, so it doesn't really matter. We are not in it just for

297
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:30,960
the real UFOs. We're in it
for all of the how society looks upon

298
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,039
this subject. So we want to
show everything from from the loosest, the

299
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:41,839
baddest to the brightest and the best. We save it all really hoaxes and

300
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:48,440
bona fide stuff. I was talking
earlier, at the very beginning to show

301
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:59,279
about this. I can't remember the
person's name from the nineteen sixty six and

302
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:07,000
um, let's see, his name
was Darren Burger and Durger, are you

303
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:12,559
familiar with who we as, did
you? Yeah? We have stuff from

304
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:19,200
from about him. Yeah, I'm
not at verse into his case, I

305
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:25,759
should say, but we have stuff
that we have helped the researchers with copies

306
00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:29,960
from when they have been writing about
utter Durrenberger, and I mean, we

307
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,480
are so many the nice things from
Georgia Damski and my Thord generation pictures.

308
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:44,519
We have taped interviews with all those
early nineteen fifties contacts like our Manger or

309
00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:49,079
Fili Lucci and all those and those
are unique. So much of what we

310
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:55,440
have it's unique. Really, it's
only one copy in the world. Wow,

311
00:28:55,759 --> 00:29:00,640
how about that. Yeah, it
is an interesting segmentum, so to

312
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:07,480
speak. And also very much of
what he was talking about his encounters was

313
00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:11,400
a lot like what the contacts were
talking about. I believe he said that

314
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,519
he went to their planet and you
know, on their spaceship and all that,

315
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:18,039
and and they were they looked just
like us, but we're a little

316
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:23,759
taller or something like that. I
mean it was but yeah, that that

317
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:30,519
whole contact movement is really something.
And uh, there's someone working on a

318
00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:37,960
film that's related to one of them
that contacted me and his insistent that his

319
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:44,480
great uncle or whoever it is,
was one hundred percent legitimate and really did

320
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,960
go to Venus or whatever he did. So, yeah, the stories were

321
00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:52,440
better, be better in the post, I mean, nineteen fifty nineteen sixty

322
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:57,160
stories or still very very interesting and
very good, but maybe too good sometimes

323
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,920
at least. Yeah, all right, welcome back everyone. This is Martin

324
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:07,160
Willis and my guest tonight is Klass
Swan and all the way from Sweden.

325
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,680
And just before we went into the
break, we were talking about basically you're

326
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,599
kind of a self funding group.
And it's which I find pretty amazing and

327
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:23,519
that you know, really no one
would do this unless they had a passion

328
00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:27,319
for it. I mean, you
know, I mean, someone putting in

329
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:30,799
five dollars a month is not too
much. Someone putting in one hundred dollars

330
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,480
is quite a bit. But also
it's just the fact that you say that

331
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:41,680
you spend two hours at least two
hours a day involved, and so you

332
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,920
think about the time involved and you
know, chasing this stuff, you probably

333
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:52,279
have countless hours in total. Absolutely, yeah. And are there other people

334
00:30:52,279 --> 00:31:00,680
as dedicated as you to this?
We are a few absolutely, and also

335
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:08,119
inside you for Sweden that spent hours
every day doing this. So and that's

336
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:12,799
the only way to make makes this
move forward. Really if we don't did

337
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:19,319
that, well, I mean we
are living under an avalanche of information coming

338
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:25,799
into a few every week. I
mean, just before we started a conversation,

339
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,960
I secured some books and papers from
a newly deceased number of you for

340
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:37,599
Sweden. I got his name five
hours ago. I wrote to his uh

341
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:45,279
wife as widow and got clearance to
to get his PaperWorks and his material.

342
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:49,480
And I do that all the time. Really, I'm chasing so that this

343
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:55,720
stuff isn't lost forever, which is
this if we don't do it right right.

344
00:31:55,839 --> 00:32:00,799
And you know, I talked with
that Dave Marler quite a bit over

345
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,240
here, and he has, you
know, quite a thing going there as

346
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:07,039
well. And I think it's great
that these things are you know, are

347
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:12,119
cared for, you know, to
pass along to interest you know, further

348
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,839
on down the line. And I'm
glad you're you're both doing that. You

349
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,079
mentioned earlier that a lot of your
books are some of your books are in

350
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,160
Russian, which I think is interestingly. You know, I do go to

351
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,200
Russia. I think I've talked to
you before when I was over there,

352
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:32,480
I don't know, like once a
year or something like that. I was

353
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,799
supposed to go this last um winter, but there was a little bit of

354
00:32:36,839 --> 00:32:39,240
an accident, so I couldn't make
it over there. I supposed to be

355
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:45,799
there right now actually, but oh, anyway, in nineteen ninety three you

356
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:52,000
went to Moscow and uh, let's
talk about that. There was some type

357
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:55,880
of dramatic situation happened. Well,
yeah, we went to Moscow, Meda

358
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:02,559
and Russian speaking friend a few in
October nineteen ninety three, and what we

359
00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:07,559
didn't know at that time that when
we landed we were the last taxi from

360
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:13,359
the airport after us, tanks were
rolling on the same street and the shooting

361
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:19,160
were starting at the Parliament because the
parliament were under on the siege for a

362
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,519
couple of days, so it was
gunshots in the streets and they were shooting

363
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:31,279
with those tanks on the Parliament,
so it was on fire. And I

364
00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:36,160
was standing there looking at this because
I mean, I'm anni journalists, I'm

365
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:42,599
working with the largest morning newspaper in
Sweden and I had to work of course.

366
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,799
When I came there and all the
shooting started, it was a quite

367
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:52,279
surrealistic really, and we were there
trying to secure contacts with Russian guthologies and

368
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,160
we did that, but at one
point we went to the Star City where

369
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,519
the Cosmonauts Cosmonauts are living, and
was shooting there, so we couldn't go

370
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,119
there. We had to go there
the next day when the shooting had stopped.

371
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,519
So eventually we secured one thousand,
one hundred original reports from from a

372
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:15,199
Russian who came to us with them, and also we copied to kgb UFO

373
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,480
files when we were there, so
It was quite a good trip eventually,

374
00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:24,599
and quite dramatic. Absolutely, Wow, you could actually get into the KGB

375
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:30,800
files. Yeah. We had a
friend who went there for us and brought

376
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:38,360
the copies back. He was an
editor for a Russian rocket and aircraft magazine

377
00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:45,480
and he helped us with that.
And you know about Russians to drink all

378
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:47,360
the time, and he was also
drinking all the time. He treated us

379
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,800
with vodka at twelve o'clock and we
were drunk in two hours. So we

380
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:57,039
thought we cannot do this anymore.
It was impossible to work for us.

381
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,960
So the next time I met with
him, I brought beer with me,

382
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,760
which I can handle, and I
said, well, we have our own

383
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,960
drinks here, so I think I
would go with the beer. Or so

384
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,119
I drink a beer, I'm yeah, I'll find the rest of the day.

385
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,440
Well. The doctors, I'm not
not joking when I say this.

386
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:22,440
At least some doctors are over in
Russia actually tell their patients to drink vodka.

387
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:24,880
It'll it'll you know, it'll help
you, you know, clear your

388
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:30,039
arteries, which I think is very
interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Um,

389
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:35,639
there was the average lifespan is I
mean fifty six or fifty seven or

390
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:37,800
like that. Yeah, that's pretty
sad, that's right, Yeah, that's

391
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:44,920
right. Yeah. Um. Now, there was a strange incident in a

392
00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:50,079
park with these really tall, tall, um you know, beings that came

393
00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:52,719
out of a craft in Russia.
Do you remember that story? Have you

394
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,079
ever heard about that one? Yeah? I mean Jacques Balle wrote about it

395
00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:05,079
in this book about Russia. You
were for encounters, and they have been

396
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,400
I don't remember the city's name.
I should do that, of course,

397
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:12,199
but it wasn't that long ago.
It was in the nineteen nineties, I

398
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,199
think, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, voters, Oh that's right,

399
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,199
yeah, yeah, yeah. I
mean there's so many stories like that

400
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:27,800
in Russia, stories about robotic like
creatures. If you read the KGB files

401
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,880
as well, you can see that, I mean, maybe fifty percent or

402
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:37,280
mispent interpretations of their own rocket launches. But there are also cases that are

403
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,480
very very strange. So Russia,
it's a very interesting country. You should

404
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,119
do more research there. If it's
very hard to do that, but you

405
00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:49,519
should do that. Yes, I
tried to connect with people, and I

406
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:53,960
was there and I could not get
very far unfortunately, you know, I

407
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:59,239
was only in Moscow for a short
time. But I was in you know,

408
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:02,920
mostly on the Black Sea, in
a place called nova Assisk, which

409
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,440
is across from Turkey. But there
was a little bit of UFO activity and

410
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,199
people talking about it there, but
not you know, it's kind of a

411
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:19,000
handful. So I wanted to against
switch gears and talk about your book.

412
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:22,639
I'm going to bring that up in
the England one more time if I can.

413
00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:27,960
And so I do love this book, I have to say, and

414
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:32,239
can you talk about how you put
that together and some of the images that

415
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,199
are actually in here. Yeah.
I had a plan doing this for several

416
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:43,480
years, but my publisher wasn't that
interested. I mean, I'll published the

417
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:47,239
book every year or written nearly thirty
books by now this book. I really

418
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,800
wanted to write this one. So
I tried to get him interested in this,

419
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:58,000
but eventually he said okay, so
he printed. I mean it's a

420
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:04,119
large publishing company. They printed a
Swedish edition six thousand, five hundred copies

421
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,079
copies, which is a small edition
for me. But we a few got

422
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:15,960
funds from from a guy in the
US sometimes helps us. He gave us

423
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:21,920
ten thousand dollars so we could print
this English edition. So I started writing

424
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,400
in January, and I stopped writing
in May last year, and all the

425
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:31,079
pictures were taken by a friend of
my professional photographer. I brought everything in

426
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:36,320
a things in the book down to
my old hometown and we spent a full

427
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:42,400
day taking hustle blood pictures, high
resolution pictures of everything that I was interested

428
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,039
of carrying in the book. And
how long did it take you to find

429
00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:50,480
all these images? I mean,
you know, did you got a lot

430
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,679
of them from your or all them
from your archives? Yeah? All of

431
00:38:54,679 --> 00:39:01,119
them are from a few All of
them are or pictures that we have or

432
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:06,440
have the rights to use. Yeah. Yeah, it took quite a while

433
00:39:06,519 --> 00:39:08,079
to ensemble all of those stuff.
I mean, it's not only pictures,

434
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:15,599
it's the toys, it's posters,
it's records, yeah yeah, and you

435
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:22,360
have a you have also memorabilia there
as well, right, besides lots of

436
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:28,639
it, we try to to save
the historial UFOs and that. Sorry,

437
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:34,119
it's not only PaperWorks, it's also
memorabilia. Like like I said, posters.

438
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:42,440
When Adamski or Low Doubting or any
other prominent nineteen fifties or sixties you

439
00:39:42,519 --> 00:39:46,079
follow this or contact t have given
a lecture, we are trying to trace

440
00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:53,280
posters and save them. We save
very very nice nineteen fifties toys with flying

441
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,480
saucers. They have worth hundreds of
dollars each. Yeah, and there we

442
00:39:58,519 --> 00:40:01,039
are so many things that are,
as I said before, unique in the

443
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:06,679
world. And it's very very hard
to find stamps to collect you for stamps,

444
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,400
there are a couple of ufologies around
the world that do that. So

445
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:15,599
we exchange stamps from time to time. Wow, that's amazing. I never

446
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:20,599
would have thought of stamps that they're
they're they're actually on stamps. About that.

447
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,760
And as far as you know,
I mean, like you just mentioned,

448
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:30,920
I know, these toys can get
like crazy. There's a you know,

449
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:34,760
vintage toy collectors, you know what
they call like new in the box,

450
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,079
that type of thing. They can
go for thousands of dollars sometimes.

451
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:44,199
Yeah, so yeah, yeah.
Do you ever have people donate things to

452
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:49,960
you? Most of the things we
have are donating donated to us. I

453
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,320
mean, we don't buy that much, so we're trying to find I travel

454
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,920
to England all great Brittain, I
should say every year are down twenty wall

455
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:06,159
trips since the two thousand and I
would do another one in April, and

456
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:12,360
I saved stuff from ethics, from
from basements, from rooms in houses and

457
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,519
where where the it's crammed. So
all of the houses we are entering are

458
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:22,599
crammed with stuff, and the wives
are very happy when we are coming and

459
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,800
bringing all that stuff back to Sweden
instead. So yes, all of that

460
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,719
are are done eighty to us.
We don't pay anything for it. For

461
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,840
trialsport, we don't pay. Yeah, I was. I was in a

462
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:44,360
house kind of sort of um,
you know, a prominent family down in

463
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,679
Massachusetts recently, and I looked up
on top of their I was doing an

464
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,679
appraisal of their fine art and antiques
and everything in their house. And I

465
00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:55,480
looked up on their kitchen counter and
there was a big jar up there with

466
00:41:55,519 --> 00:42:00,039
an alien in it, and I
just share happening. I said, what's

467
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:05,920
that? And they said that their
uncle or whatever has a sent to humor

468
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,199
and sent it to them. So
but yeah, looked at actually kind of

469
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,800
real and kind of scary. Oh
so it wasn't real. Oh no,

470
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,880
no, it wasn't now, but
I mean they try to make it look

471
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:24,599
real. Why do you call the
a f U a fourteen archive? Well,

472
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:30,719
fourteen means really it's from Charles Fort. I mean he was the author

473
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:37,000
of four books in the early nineteen
hundreds. He was the father of all

474
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:43,760
those subjects that we are collecting.
It was an American writer who lived between

475
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,199
eighteen seventy four and nineteen thirty two, and he collected what he called damned

476
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:55,960
facts, this fact that were damned
by the scientists, not interesting. He

477
00:42:57,079 --> 00:43:02,000
was pouring through those scientific jobs trying
to pick the gems. And it did.

478
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:07,559
It found. It found one hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of uf observations

479
00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:12,880
or part normal events, I mean
everything you could think of. And after

480
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:19,320
him those subjects us goes to part
a normal. Everything that is strange is

481
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,679
called fortune. We have fourteen Times, which is a magazine still published in

482
00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:30,159
London, which is a fantastic magazine
which is a must read for your fologies,

483
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,519
of course, so that is why
we call a few Fortune Library and

484
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,360
Fortune Archive. I see, I've
never I've heard that term a number of

485
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:47,239
times, but I never really quite
understood it. So so thank you for

486
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:54,199
clearing that up. What other things
does the UFO Sweden do besides the a

487
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:01,960
fu well you for Sweden is an
ordinary UFO society. Lucky Muthon in the

488
00:44:02,039 --> 00:44:10,840
US. We have members. We
print the two magazines which circulated in one

489
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:16,320
thousand, two hundred copies, the
Glossy One, and we have feel investigate

490
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:22,639
their training courses every year. We
had one in October where fifty five people

491
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:30,880
paid two hundred fifty dollars to spend
the weekend together with me and my friends

492
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,239
in uth for Sweden. That when
we are trying to learn how to investigate

493
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:40,519
UFO reports, and that we have
done now since the middle of the nineteen

494
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:45,000
seventies every year, and that is
also something that very very few UFO groups

495
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,800
do. Wow, so they did. That is very hugely important for us

496
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:59,559
to to let those newcomers know what
people can misinterpret in the skuise because you're

497
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:05,639
must sift through all of that before
getting down to the really epos. It's

498
00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:08,159
a hard, hard work, but
it's very very interesting of course. So

499
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:12,800
you actually had fifty five people show
up, isn't that that's quite a few

500
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:21,800
people for training? And is that
throughout Sweden or what throughout Sweden? And

501
00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:29,239
also from Norway? They always send
people from Norway to our courses and can

502
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:35,840
anybody take are your courses in in
your language only? Yeah, I'm sorry

503
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,800
to say. It's a Swedish language
course and we have been thinking of maybe

504
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:46,800
taking these to other countries because what
we do is very high quality and it's

505
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:51,400
something that we should explore really,
maybe do online or something. But you

506
00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:57,960
need to be there because we have
those encounters when when our feeling investigators are

507
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:05,679
encountering a UFO that we create for
them and we do it without their knowledge

508
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:12,159
and they have to report tell what
they have seen. So it's a play

509
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,440
really, we play with them and
it's very very interesting because after they have

510
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:21,800
done this, they say, I
never trust anyone after this, because you

511
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,159
know, they cannot really estimate the
distance, they cannot really tell what they

512
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:30,960
saw. They cannot they make a
drawing that is looking like the object,

513
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:37,679
because that is the circumstances that really
a witnesses are exposed to. It's very

514
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:42,400
very good to be exposed to that
yourself. I see. I know that

515
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,199
the Arizona move On does like a
training course every year. I had some

516
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,119
people on from that, and I
think that's really great because you know a

517
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:55,960
lot of times also people can decide, well maybe it's not for me too.

518
00:46:57,039 --> 00:46:59,719
At the same time, you know, maybe they're expecting something else.

519
00:47:00,519 --> 00:47:02,960
But yeah, yeah, but I
know now that they still know what we

520
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:09,840
do and nobody is really expecting anything
else but took force. Not everyone will

521
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:15,119
be a feeling investigator after this.
Yeah, most of them are just interested,

522
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:21,199
you know, and we'll stay out
in the perimeter of the organization.

523
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,280
But maybe tell people every year if
we are lucky we can we can help

524
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,280
us feel investigators and keep them.
M wow, that's that's that's not bad

525
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:37,199
really. Um. Now, Um, since you and I have last talk,

526
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:40,719
UM, and I would want to
get your opinion as someone outside of

527
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,960
our country, what is your opinion
on UM as I was talking about in

528
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,840
the monologue in the beginning, it
seems like the Navy has really been outspoken

529
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,039
about the UFO topic, and what
is someone like you think about that.

530
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,800
I mean, we are in contact
with To the Stars Academy quite a lot,

531
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:09,639
and I've also talked for a long
time with Louis Elisonder, who is

532
00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:14,760
one of the main characters of course
in TTSA. We also had one of

533
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,519
them from TTSA over in Sweden visiting
a few so we are trying to work

534
00:48:20,559 --> 00:48:25,880
together with them, and of course
they were the ones that brought those film

535
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:32,320
clips out in the open, and
I mean the the US Navy, what

536
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:37,719
they have done now that they have
told their pilots to report what they see

537
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:42,519
in the sky, they are telling
that this is well something they take seriously.

538
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,199
And both of that those things have
been told before. I mean,

539
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:52,159
we are back in the nineteen fifties
or sixties again, but not for a

540
00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:58,519
while. And that is very good, which helps us. It helps everyone

541
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:02,199
that is interested in you have us
all over the world because it makes or

542
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:09,559
interest on topic more mainstream in many
ways. So I think it's very very

543
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:15,320
good for us whatever comes out of
this. We have so many good things

544
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,880
coming out of it already. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of you

545
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,880
know, there's a lot of people
that speculate that, you know, to

546
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:28,599
the Stars has an agenda. Some
people think they do, some people think

547
00:49:28,639 --> 00:49:32,320
they don't. Um, how do
you see them, you know, personally,

548
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,199
how do you feel to think they're
It seems to me they're moving the

549
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:43,880
needle um, you know, regardless, things happy that they're trying. They're

550
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:50,119
trying to to assemble information so they
can maybe build a craft. That's what

551
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:57,199
they have been been telling. They
really want to to make the most of

552
00:49:57,519 --> 00:50:05,239
those fragments that may have been found
from UFOs, So I wish the good

553
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,679
luck with that. I think it's
a very very hard thing to do.

554
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:13,079
It's very problematic in many many respects. But of course they haven't agenda.

555
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:17,000
All of us has some kind of
aganda. We want to go somewhere.

556
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,719
I mean, for myself, I
want to help people with information. That's

557
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:29,119
my agenda, and I want to
know what UFOs or. Of course I

558
00:50:29,159 --> 00:50:31,000
don't have that insight, so I
know if they're having a hidden agenda.

559
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:38,360
But yeah, I cannot really comment
on that, right right. You know,

560
00:50:39,079 --> 00:50:45,199
do you think that we'll ever know
what UFOs are? You know,

561
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:51,079
when I started in the nineteen seventy
four, I knew much less than I

562
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:58,119
know today. I know very very
more about misinterpretation, so people can misinterpret

563
00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:00,840
in the sky. I also know
that there are some very very tough,

564
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:09,440
utiful cases that are very hard to
correct, that are really nearly unbelievable about

565
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:15,880
you when you listen to the observers. H No, I'm not sure I

566
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:23,159
will live to get the answer.
Who knows. I maybe old, Yeah,

567
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,960
it's still it's still I feel probably
about the same way. You know

568
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,639
more or less the same way.
But in Sweden, do you know,

569
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:37,920
it seems like more or less people
take this seriously. UM, and you're

570
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:46,679
on TV quite a bit for representing
UM. Uh, you know as the

571
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,639
guy. You're the UFO guy of
Sweden. Basically any anytime there's a TV

572
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,679
show on, right, I mean, they call you and bring you in

573
00:51:54,079 --> 00:52:00,559
UM. And what about science there? You know, the science community.

574
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:09,639
Have any you know, Swedish science
looked into this topic seriously? Well,

575
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:15,360
not really. I mean, we
have very good contact with astronomers and physicists

576
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,400
and psychologists. We have a couple
of those on the board that helps us

577
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:25,519
with the difficult cases. They evaluate
our work and looks at the cases that

578
00:52:25,559 --> 00:52:32,519
we found most interesting. But there
have not been any any research into UFOs

579
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,360
in Sweden. I'm sorry to say, but it's a very difficult topic.

580
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,519
Of course, it's hard to investigate. But when you say that people here

581
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:46,559
in Sweden are interested and open about
it, that is true because we knocked

582
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:50,840
the doors. During a couple of
years. We talked with one thousand and

583
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,360
six hundred sweeds and out of the
one thousand and six hundred sweeds, ten

584
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:00,960
percent of them had seen something in
the sky that they couldn't really understand,

585
00:53:00,199 --> 00:53:04,960
and most of them had never told
it to anyone elseide their own family.

586
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:09,760
So it's one million suits. I
mean we are ten millions in Sweden.

587
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:17,960
One million suits can be I mean
holding back. There are very very interesting

588
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:22,079
observations that we will never never know
about. We had twenty thousand observations in

589
00:53:22,159 --> 00:53:28,599
use Sweden's files. That's nothing if
there's one million out there that don't talk

590
00:53:28,639 --> 00:53:32,000
about them. Yeah, you know. One of the things I think about

591
00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:40,599
too, is are there really that
many UFOs actually flying around Earth? And

592
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,039
if so, you know, are
they all from different places? Where they

593
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:50,880
from? And if they are from
another planet you know, I mean who

594
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,360
knows for you know where they're from. But still there's so many sightings.

595
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,360
It's just it's unbelievable if you really
think about it. Yeah, but to

596
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:07,960
be honest that most of them are
misinterpretations or mundane objects. If we give

597
00:54:07,159 --> 00:54:13,800
every sighting the time it deserves,
we usually find an explanation to it.

598
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,760
I mean, really, of us
our scars, we may get one or

599
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:23,400
two every year here in Sweden if
we are lucky, and not every year

600
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:30,519
there is one. But the ones
that are left that have really physical impact

601
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:37,800
on maybe a car or something else. They are the most interesting, of

602
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,760
course, but they are not that
many that people would tend to believe if

603
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:45,280
we get two hundred and fifty reports
every year, only handful or interesting enough

604
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:52,719
to really go more in more detailed
about. Yeah. Sure, all right,

605
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,480
Well we're ready to go on the
break. So this is Martin Willis.

606
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,760
My guest tonight is Class one,
and we'll be right back right after

607
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:27,960
the the messages. All right,
welcome back. My guest tonight is Class

608
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:36,000
Von from Sweden. And we were
talking UFOs and and documents and books and

609
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:42,039
archives and all kinds of interesting things
and the UFO world. You saved like

610
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,840
a bunch of stuff in California that
was in a garage or something like that.

611
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,039
Yeah, I mean, it's one
of the oldest UFO groups in the

612
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:59,639
world, called Borderland Science Research Association. And we had tried for years to

613
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:06,480
get in contact with the person who
was in charge of this nineteen forties organization.

614
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:08,880
Wow. We called him, we
wrote to him, we emailed him,

615
00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:14,079
we tried every way we could,
but he never answered us. But

616
00:56:14,599 --> 00:56:16,760
suddenly, one night, at two
o'clock in the night, I called him

617
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:23,000
and he picked up the phone and
after that he was hooked and I met

618
00:56:23,039 --> 00:56:30,000
with him and a couple of years
ago, twenty sixteen, I went to

619
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:35,159
California to get with my family on
holiday, and then we met and we

620
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,480
packed all of this stuff, this
wonderful stuff from the garage which he had

621
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:46,800
saved for decades moving with him,
and we sent it to Sweden and now

622
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,960
it's sorted. We had scanned a
lot of it, we had helped him

623
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,199
with scannings, we had got things
back from us. We do that.

624
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,960
We tried to help people with getting
things back as well, of course.

625
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:04,000
And I mean it's from nineteen forties
up till the nineteen nineties, and it's

626
00:57:04,119 --> 00:57:07,880
it's fantastic. It's letters and reports
and newspaper clippings and loads of stuff.

627
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:13,880
Wow. Wow, that's amazing.
And when you ship something like that,

628
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,000
how do you ship it? I
mean, it's so expensive to ship international.

629
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:23,000
It is. When we shipped this
huge collection from Oregon, this one

630
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:30,800
thousand kilos, it costs around one
thousand and five hundred dollars, which is

631
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:37,280
less than I thought. Well yeah, but it comes customs and other other

632
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:44,559
stuff as well, so it eventually
maybe two thousand dollars tops, so well,

633
00:57:44,639 --> 00:57:47,880
we can do it, but it's
not for free though. Yeah,

634
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:52,400
and you're traveling all over the place. Can you talk about some of the

635
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:58,039
other places you've traveled to find things? Yeah, I'm traveled a lot to

636
00:57:58,719 --> 00:58:05,000
Europe, northern part of Europe,
bainly, but Britain is my main main

637
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:10,719
traveling focus because in the nineteen fifties
there is so many Uther groups in Britain

638
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:15,559
and all of them had exchanged with
all of the world. They got the

639
00:58:15,719 --> 00:58:23,800
magazines from Japan, from the US, they had letters from uphologists and contacts

640
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:29,679
all over the world, so you
can find nearly anything you want when it

641
00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:35,559
comes to the early history of UFOs
in Britain, and I mean Gordon Crayton,

642
00:58:35,719 --> 00:58:37,519
who was the founder, Sorry,
not the founder. He was the

643
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:43,239
publisher of Lyne Saucial Review for many, many years. I met with him

644
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,000
in two thousand and one, I
think, the first time. When he

645
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:51,719
passed away. A couple of years
later, I was the first to enter

646
00:58:52,039 --> 00:58:55,440
his house and his son had told
me that do not go up to the

647
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,760
second floor. So I went there, of course the first I did,

648
00:59:00,639 --> 00:59:05,039
and we couldn't even open the door. It was so crammed with stuff.

649
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:08,119
We've spent maybe twenty minutes trying to
get in, and we did that.

650
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,920
The whole room was filled with PaperWorks, with books, with reports, with

651
00:59:14,199 --> 00:59:21,199
all stuff from fifty years of uphology
from you over work, and eventually we

652
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:25,039
found a staircase. We didn't see
it after an hour we found it because

653
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:30,360
it was underneath books. And we
went up to another floor where we found

654
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:37,440
a library. And eventually took us
ten years to get all of this to

655
00:59:37,519 --> 00:59:42,639
Sweden because they didn't want to part
with it. But I went there ten

656
00:59:42,719 --> 00:59:46,960
times talking to the guy who to
care of this and eventually said take it.

657
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:52,199
So now we have it's ordered and
scanned some of it, but we

658
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:57,280
are going to scan much more of
it. It's hugely important our character to

659
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,320
find source Review was the most important
magazine for many, many many years.

660
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:06,519
Wow. And when you scan these
things are they do you ever put them

661
01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:10,920
up on your website where people can
actually get to some of this material.

662
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,920
While we have a server where we
put everything on. It's not that easy

663
01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:23,400
just to publish anything and everything.
It's very personal. It's sometimes you must

664
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:29,440
redact witness these names and things like
that. So even though we have scanned

665
01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:37,119
all of the British Ueful Research Associations
files which I found during twenty years of

666
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:43,440
travels in maybe twenty five or thirty
different places around Britain. We've scanned all

667
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:49,400
of it and giving it back in
the scanned format to BEFORA. We cannot

668
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,119
publish it because it's very sensitive and
they must make the decision what they want

669
01:00:53,119 --> 01:00:57,559
to make public in that way.
But we do make public all of those

670
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:01,360
magazines that we have cleared the copyright
issues for, so then you can go

671
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:07,559
and get them for free from if
you download, and we really will help

672
01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:09,880
people. Of course you are coming
to us, you can see everything we

673
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:15,960
have, but the sensitive material you
may not be able to copy everything.

674
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:20,639
You must we must pay delete names
if you're going to bring it with you.

675
01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:24,480
I see now about copyright. That's
one of the things I thought of

676
01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:29,280
when I received your book and the
mail and I was looking, you know,

677
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:34,400
through it. How difficult is it
to find out first of all,

678
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,320
if an image has a copyright,
and then how do you get around that

679
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,679
if you want to publish it.
Yeah, it's difficult. You really have

680
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,519
to. I mean there is a
many, many many comes to have the

681
01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:51,000
fifty years span that you can.
You can make available pictures that are more

682
01:01:51,039 --> 01:01:55,400
than fifty years after the person who
took it has passed away. When it

683
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:59,840
comes to magazine, it's much more
easy. We can trace and we have

684
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:04,199
help with a guy in Britain who
helps us to chase people all around the

685
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:12,039
world that keep keeps copyrights. But
we must really be thorough in this so

686
01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:17,199
we don't step over the line.
If some people say that this picture you

687
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:24,400
cannot published with of course we don't
do it right right. Yes, I

688
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:31,280
actually by by error once I had
a Billy Meyer picture in one of my

689
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:37,360
blogs and I was contacted, you
know, to take the image down,

690
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,719
you know, which is fine.
I'll be glad to do that whenever I'm

691
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:47,559
contacted. No problem at all.
But wow, interesting and getting back to

692
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,360
that. You know you talked about
the we both were talking about the enormous

693
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:58,239
amount of money those pictures brought.
Do you think that is going to set

694
01:02:58,239 --> 01:03:01,440
a trend for people buying you know, UFL pictures or do you think that

695
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:08,480
was a one time thing because of
the picture being on that poster. I'm

696
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:17,840
a little scared about this con set
some sort of bottom line for how that

697
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,400
everything is really worth something. And
of course your phones are not only for

698
01:03:23,519 --> 01:03:30,800
your phologists. It's something that is
in the public mind. After so many

699
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:36,559
sci fi movies and all documentaries and
our X files and all that stuff.

700
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,960
People are ready to pay for it. They are I mean, we have

701
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,639
material worth millions, of course a
few if we were going to sell it,

702
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:52,079
and I really hope that it's not
the case that we must buy stuff

703
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:57,559
for loads of money. There is
a course a risk. It is a

704
01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:06,199
risk right right now. Getting back
to what the research that you do over

705
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:13,119
there, can you talk about some
of the case files that have happened maybe

706
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,679
since you last been on the show. Anything interesting? Yeah, I mean,

707
01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:27,119
we have this case file from it's
a British policeman, Alan Godfrey.

708
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,320
He was from He was working in
todd Morden which is outside Manchester Auto Manchester

709
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:40,800
in nineteen eighty and his case file
also contains his uniform. We do have

710
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:45,960
his uniform, his jacket that he
may have had on his on himself when

711
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:53,639
he was abducted on this craft he
met on November twenty eighth. He was

712
01:04:53,679 --> 01:04:59,360
out looking for cows. It was
the Hurdle cows that had been vanishing from

713
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,599
from from a farmer nearby, and
he was out looking for them. But

714
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,079
early in the morning, it was
I think he quartered to five or something

715
01:05:06,119 --> 01:05:14,159
like that. He was traveling on
this road outside todd more than when a

716
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,760
huge craft suddenly hanged in the air
in front of his police car, so

717
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:24,159
he stopped. He didn't have any
camera with him, so he stopped and

718
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:31,360
just looked at it. It was
like whirling. It was moving very swiftly,

719
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:38,599
so leaves and branches were traveling around
it like in a world storm.

720
01:05:38,599 --> 01:05:44,320
And he started to write to draw
the object. Instead, he took some

721
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,239
paper and started to draw it,
and suddenly it was a flash of night

722
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:54,719
and he felt himself being driving the
car on the other side of the object.

723
01:05:55,679 --> 01:06:00,159
I mean the second before he was
standing sitting in the car drawing,

724
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:05,000
and after that, suddenly he was
driving again from the object and he turned

725
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:10,719
around. He turned a wavy vehicle
around and the object was gone. But

726
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:15,480
he could see it was the pattern
of a dry, dry area on the

727
01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:20,199
way on the road because it had
been raining. But why the object had

728
01:06:20,239 --> 01:06:25,719
been seen. It was an area
that was really dry. And after that

729
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:32,199
he had five different typnos sessions,
and he told the same story in every

730
01:06:32,239 --> 01:06:39,000
one of them, that he suddenly
were taken out of the car on board

731
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:45,639
his ship meeting tall alien or whatever
it was. He never said it was

732
01:06:45,679 --> 01:06:48,679
an alien, and some other guys
there as well, and after that he

733
01:06:49,079 --> 01:06:54,880
didn't tell anymore. He couldn't go
past that point. He stopped there every

734
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:59,679
time and his police jacket. We
tell you a few and we have his

735
01:06:59,719 --> 01:07:04,280
story this report. Wow, and
that's a great one. And I do

736
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:11,360
remember clearly that you said the abduction
thing is very very low in Sweden,

737
01:07:11,559 --> 01:07:15,280
that you get it was very rare
that you get any reports about that.

738
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,920
Is that about the same as it
always was besides this story, yeah,

739
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:26,400
it is. It's very very uncommon. But that's said. Just a couple

740
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:30,599
of months ago. I met the
guy who regularly every night or every second

741
01:07:30,719 --> 01:07:36,920
night, and you can make of
it whatever you want, travels to other

742
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:45,239
planets and it's a part of this
huge collection of entities that are rolling the

743
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:49,400
universe. I mean, it sounds
crazy, but the guy is not crazy.

744
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:54,719
I mean, you've got the proper
job, and quite an important job

745
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:59,719
as well, and it's really really
much like you and me when he tells

746
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,280
this. But his story is of
course so strange that it's very very hard

747
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:09,480
or to believe. And I know
several other people here in Sweden that tells

748
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:15,039
the same kind of stories that they
traveled nighttime, two different planets and meat

749
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:20,439
identities and discuss things with them and
sometimes then bring bring stuff back with them

750
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:26,039
as well. So yeah, what
do you know. I mean, it's

751
01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:30,119
very hard to investigate, but that
kind of stories who can find here as

752
01:08:30,119 --> 01:08:36,600
well? Yeah? Wow, wow, I'm actually surprised after our other conversations

753
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:41,079
because I remember you told me I
think there was only a couple of cases

754
01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:45,239
that you were aware of, and
one of them was actually really interesting where

755
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,520
it was actually a police officer as
well. His wife was lifted off the

756
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,159
bed or something in front of him. Oh oh, yeah it was.

757
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,840
It was not the police officer,
but that's right, you're you're you're remembering,

758
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,560
right. Was in his bed and
he was sleeping and his wife was

759
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,720
sleeping beside him, and I met
with both of them in their in their

760
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:14,800
home, and his wife told me
that she was always waking up as she

761
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,600
had fell asleep. She was sleeping
very very sound, very deep, never

762
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:28,039
woke up. But this night she
woke and it was a greenish light in

763
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:35,399
the bedroom. She was like hovering
over the bed in the feetless position with

764
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:41,560
his with her face down to to
the to the bed, and she saw

765
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:46,399
her husband sleeping and she was dragged
out from the bed, and she was

766
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:49,920
scared, of course, so she
tried to shout and wake up her husband,

767
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:56,760
but she couldn't shout, so she
instead grabbed him by his arm.

768
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:01,600
And he tells me that he w
feeling this grabbing of his arm, and

769
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:09,760
he sees his wife floating out from
the bed towards three entities very much like

770
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:15,800
the ones you see on with Distriver's
Communion cover, that were standing at the

771
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:19,000
end of the bed, and she
was drawn to them, and he thought

772
01:10:19,039 --> 01:10:24,319
what should I do? And he
did one thing very strange, of course,

773
01:10:24,359 --> 01:10:28,520
he tried to kick them. So
when he did that, he tried

774
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:36,119
to kick them. Suddenly everything went
dark and he heard the pounds like somebody

775
01:10:36,159 --> 01:10:41,560
falling, and his wife, of
course outside the bed at that time,

776
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:45,199
and she fell to the floor.
And if you think that is strange,

777
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:50,399
what is happening next is much more
strange to me, because she crawls up

778
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:55,920
into the bed and they were talking
to each other, and she says what

779
01:10:56,039 --> 01:10:59,079
do you think that was? And
he says to I have no idea,

780
01:10:59,159 --> 01:11:04,439
and they to sleep again. They
fell asleep again, and that is that

781
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:09,760
is something I've heard on this show
a lot of times people have this major

782
01:11:10,319 --> 01:11:15,560
thing happened, major sighting and they
go right to sleep. Yeah, which

783
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,439
doesn't seem like it makes any sense, but strength of the story really yeah,

784
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:24,600
yeah, it is. That is
bizarre. Yeah, that's that's that's

785
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:30,000
really something. But um um.
As far as the abductions go, and

786
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:34,239
or the experiencers and stuff like that, generally speaking, it's very low.

787
01:11:34,279 --> 01:11:41,359
You get very few reports absolutely overall. Out of out of the two hundred

788
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:46,079
and fifty reports that you look into
are as air a portion that are people

789
01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:55,399
claiming that they were also abducted.
No, not really, what about six

790
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:59,640
Yeah, entities, I mean they
were very common in the nineteen seventies,

791
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:03,039
so I started as a jung uthologist. You could meet people that identities.

792
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:10,600
Nowadays you can do that, but
that's very very very seldom. We don't

793
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,319
get that kind of report very often. Maybe once a year, maybe every

794
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:25,119
second year, something like that,
I seem And as far as the reports

795
01:12:25,159 --> 01:12:29,279
are, are they a similar type
of objects that people are seeing, you

796
01:12:29,319 --> 01:12:31,920
know, I mean, it seems
like there's a lot of triangle UFOs,

797
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:35,039
A lot of people are talking about
them. Is that is that common over

798
01:12:35,079 --> 01:12:41,680
there as well? No, triangle
observations are very very seldom as well.

799
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:45,279
Here we do get the few,
and we have been able to identify and

800
01:12:45,399 --> 01:12:54,000
identify many of them as aircraft.
But there are some very strange triangular observations

801
01:12:54,039 --> 01:12:58,039
of course here as well, but
most of them, most of the pictures

802
01:12:58,039 --> 01:13:01,159
we get, most of the observations, we get a nighttime specs of light

803
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:10,880
that really really does say nothing at
all. It's they're not informative, I

804
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,199
should say. I mean, you
would think that people with those mobile cameras

805
01:13:14,199 --> 01:13:18,399
would take loads of very very good
pictures now, but they don't. Yeah,

806
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:24,079
you don't have those fantastic ue for
pictures anymore as you had in the

807
01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:29,600
nineteen fifties, when well the contact
is took pictures all the time. Why

808
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,479
do you suppose that is? I
mean, everyone has a cell phone on

809
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:36,800
them almost Yeah, yeah, I
mean here is weird and everyone got one.

810
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:42,760
I mean it's hard to find anyone
who doesn't. I mean that tells

811
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:47,760
me that they really are. Phones
are very very scarce again, and most

812
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:53,960
of the things you can see can
be explained. It's hard to say that

813
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,439
because if you say that, people
think you're a skeptical or something. But

814
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:01,119
I'm not a skeptical. I'm skeptical
it comes to people's interpretations of what they

815
01:14:01,119 --> 01:14:05,239
have seen, but I am open. It can be editing and everything,

816
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:12,920
and you must be both both ways. It's very important. So of course

817
01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:18,439
there are pictures that are better,
but still I'm still waiting for the really

818
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:25,199
good fourth Destian Suedom. Yes,
yes, I'm opening up the phone lines.

819
01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:28,199
If anyone would like to call in
and ask our guests a question,

820
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:32,359
then that number is eight five five
four seven two five four eight three.

821
01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:35,800
It's up on the YouTube screen.
You can see that now if you like

822
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:44,880
to call in, and yeah,
it's it's really it's really quite amazing.

823
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:49,880
When when you think about as far
as all the reports go, and how

824
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:56,239
would you I know you're very particular
on how you would report a UFO.

825
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:01,560
Can you give advice to maybe a
listener out there who may encounter in the

826
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:06,119
future out what they should do once
they see one. The first thing you

827
01:15:06,119 --> 01:15:11,359
should do is to take a picture, not because of the picture may be

828
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:15,279
of great quality, but because the
camera gives us the time of the observation.

829
01:15:16,359 --> 01:15:20,239
So whatever you see, if it's
a spec of light far away,

830
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:28,359
take a picture. And after that
we can of course check what was in

831
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:32,239
the air or in the sky at
their time. And after that you should

832
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:38,439
try to record what you are seeing, maybe film it, maybe talk to

833
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:42,039
your telephone if you have one,
or write it down as soon as possible.

834
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:47,880
And if you're in a familiar area, try to see in which direction

835
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:53,199
you saw this. Most people don't
have a clue about north and south,

836
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,319
even though if they are lived in
an area for many years, they often

837
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:02,560
mistake north and south or eastern west. So it's very very good to know

838
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:08,119
where you are, when it was, and what you thought you saw.

839
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:14,960
Those three things are the crucial questions
you always ask as a researcher afterwards.

840
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:21,800
And I remember you talking about you
and your wife actually witnessed something coming home

841
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:28,399
one night. So if someone is
if it's like a multiple witness situation,

842
01:16:29,319 --> 01:16:32,319
what would you explain to them that
you do a little bit different than what

843
01:16:32,359 --> 01:16:38,119
you just said. Yeah, what
we did at the time was that we

844
01:16:38,119 --> 01:16:42,680
were not talking to each other,
we were separating each other into different rooms

845
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,520
in our house. Was in the
middle of the night, sat down with

846
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:49,800
a form that you have Sweden uses
enemy new phone and other groups have those

847
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:57,199
report forms as well, and we
answered all the questions, we made the

848
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:02,640
drawings, and after that we compared
notes and talked. So it's very important

849
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,840
when you're in a group not to
let the group leader, because they're always

850
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:12,920
a leader in any group, affect
you and tell you what you're seeing.

851
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:17,560
I've seen so many, so many
us FOR reports with groups seeing things that

852
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:27,039
are getting really looking at. Everyone
tells the same story eventually, and that

853
01:17:27,399 --> 01:17:32,800
is not the case because people don't
see or remember things the same way as

854
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:38,640
the other guy. I do.
Yeah. I think the most important takeaway

855
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:42,960
that anybody can get from this is
you do something right away as quick as

856
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,960
you can, and document it as
much as you can. And if you

857
01:17:47,039 --> 01:17:53,600
don't have a cell phone, look
at your watch and the time is essential.

858
01:17:54,279 --> 01:17:57,800
If we have a U FOR report
and we don't know when it happened,

859
01:17:58,239 --> 01:18:03,680
it can never be the solution,
can never be a UFO. Afterwards,

860
01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:09,000
that case can never be solved and
we can never say that it was

861
01:18:09,039 --> 01:18:12,479
a uf of sighting, even though
it may have been a fantastic sighting.

862
01:18:14,119 --> 01:18:16,359
That's the rules we have in the
uf for Sweden. We need to have

863
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:23,359
exact time so we can check what
kind of misserpentatious it could have been.

864
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:28,319
If we cannot check it, we
cannot call it a UFO. There was

865
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,760
recently there was MOI I said,
I don't know, two or three weeks

866
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:38,520
ago, there was a UFO video
up on YouTube and look darn good.

867
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:44,319
Actually I don't I've never followed up
on it in the last few weeks.

868
01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:49,720
But you know, the person that
posted the video said over a hundred witnesses

869
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:54,840
and blah blah blah, and then
you know, showed this video. So

870
01:18:55,039 --> 01:18:59,680
I wrote in the comments below,
Okay, well where are those hundred witnesses

871
01:19:00,159 --> 01:19:02,960
and where are the other films?
You know? I mean, it's okay

872
01:19:03,039 --> 01:19:06,479
for someone to say there's a hundred
witnesses, but if that's all you got,

873
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:11,039
um, you know it's not it's
not much of a leg to stand

874
01:19:11,119 --> 01:19:15,920
on. You need more more documentation
than just putting it under the video.

875
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:25,159
So to me, YouTube is entertainment. It's not really something you report your

876
01:19:25,199 --> 01:19:29,439
foos through, but you entertain other
people. I do believe that a lot

877
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:33,000
of people don't know what to do, and when they see something unusual they

878
01:19:33,039 --> 01:19:38,800
put it on YouTube totally because they
don't know what to do. I believe

879
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:43,720
that is true. But there is
the entertainment aspect, and you know,

880
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:51,000
the amount of views that the hoaxers
get is I almost dare say criminal in

881
01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:56,720
a way. You know some of
the cgi of things that are out there

882
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,840
that looks so good, you know, and it's it's just a shame because

883
01:20:00,079 --> 01:20:04,880
it's very very hard today to tell
really what this bona fide film or just

884
01:20:05,039 --> 01:20:11,680
a hoax. Yeah, we have
all experts in you for Sweden that are

885
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,800
quite skilled, but I mean it's
very very hard to tell the hoax.

886
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:18,640
If you have filmed something real,
I mean, if you've thrown something up

887
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:25,760
in the air which is a real
thing and film that, I mean it's

888
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:30,159
real, it's very hard to tell
what it could be. I mean it

889
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:34,239
comes down to into you in the
witness, to meet in the witness on

890
01:20:34,399 --> 01:20:40,520
the spot where this thing happened.
And when we do that, many times

891
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:45,720
we get a solution there because most
witnesses they don't follow through with our hopes

892
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:49,840
stories when we are there trying to
really get them to explain that they can't

893
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:58,000
really get their story through at the
time. Again, the phone lines are

894
01:20:58,039 --> 01:21:01,840
open at state five five seven two
five four eight three. Um, you

895
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:12,479
know, what do you think that
you would consider the all out evidence that

896
01:21:13,319 --> 01:21:16,760
someone could gather you know, I
mean a crashed UFO. I mean,

897
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:21,319
uh, yeah, you know,
I mean that would be It's a lot

898
01:21:21,359 --> 01:21:26,079
of the reason why a lot of
people won't take this seriously is because you

899
01:21:26,159 --> 01:21:30,600
know, it's it's a fleet something
fleeting, you know, and then we're

900
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:32,119
going to get to the point where
we're not gonna be able to believe you

901
01:21:32,199 --> 01:21:36,319
know, images or a video any
longer. And what do you do then?

902
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:42,359
You know, I think we haven't
really gone forward. We have been

903
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:47,840
going backwards because of the technique,
the technicalities, and the problems with the

904
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:53,239
films and the hoaxing and what you
can do with your film camera today.

905
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:59,760
So it comes down to that you
must find something and the piece or something

906
01:22:00,359 --> 01:22:08,960
really and from that see something completely
new that we didn't know before. Because

907
01:22:09,039 --> 01:22:15,680
witnesses are very very interested, interesting, but they don't prove anything else than

908
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:21,439
that we have something to investigate and
that we know we do have some really

909
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:26,640
really interesting things to investigate. I
mean I met with Tweedish fighter pilots who

910
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:30,199
have tried to chase those things in
the sky. They've seen them on radar,

911
01:22:31,399 --> 01:22:35,720
and of course we had their stories, but we don't have their radar

912
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:43,560
recordings. That is a problem,
and we really need all those pieces to

913
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:50,600
get past UFOs just being very very
strange stories to be something that science could

914
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:57,199
really get their hands on. Right. You mentioned earlier about t TSA and

915
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:02,760
there metemeteria or whatever it is they
think that they have there, And I

916
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:08,800
know there was this situation with arts
parts. I don't know if we ever

917
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:13,399
heard of those art Bell. I
think Lynda Moulton how had something to do

918
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:19,159
with it as well as these parts
are supposedly from a craft saucer and part

919
01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:24,960
of the material ended up being a
radiator foil. I don't know about the

920
01:23:25,039 --> 01:23:29,319
rest of it. And if that's
what TTSA has or they have more,

921
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:36,720
I don't really know, but well, radiator foil is not very strange.

922
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:41,920
Said yeah, I mean, but
this was I think in the nineties when

923
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:46,520
art Bell got received these things.
I'm not sure exactly when, but but

924
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:53,000
it's pretty pretty much you know,
that's pretty much documented that's what part of

925
01:23:53,079 --> 01:23:57,239
that stuff is. And it was
all found in one area, so maybe

926
01:23:57,279 --> 01:24:01,720
there's something else in there that that's
good. Has anyone ever tried to give

927
01:24:02,359 --> 01:24:08,319
your organization anything like that that they're
saying had something to do with that,

928
01:24:09,199 --> 01:24:15,399
you know, trace evidence or crash
crash sauce or anything like that. Well,

929
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:23,479
we do have a couple of things
at the few that are are strange

930
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,520
at least or strange looking, I
should say. One of them are from

931
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:31,399
the late nineteen fifties. It was
a couple of carpenters that were driving a

932
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:39,920
car outside Stockholm northeast or Stockholm when
they saw this object coming down from the

933
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:45,920
sky and their car stalled and they
were standing there looking at this obvious hanging

934
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:50,920
in front of them, and suddenly
they objoqu went away and the car started.

935
01:24:51,159 --> 01:24:55,760
But the guys went out to take
a look at the spot where the

936
01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:02,399
object had had been positioned, and
they found this meth it's a tonguesten metal

937
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,600
and picked it up. It was
all hot. It was the middle of

938
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:11,479
the night. It was very very
hot, so it really showed that something

939
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,279
had heated it, and tonguesten is
not keeping warmth. Very very long,

940
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:23,239
so it should have been called and
that has been analyzed many many times in

941
01:25:23,319 --> 01:25:29,920
the US and in Europe, and
I also put it through analysis here in

942
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:34,920
Sweden, and it's showed to be
a very mundane object. It was a

943
01:25:35,079 --> 01:25:42,279
Tonguesten object. But it was made
with the same problems which they had in

944
01:25:42,359 --> 01:25:45,880
the nineteen fifties, so the impurities
in the metal that were in the nineteen

945
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:51,399
fifties. So it was not alien
any way, but it showed that something

946
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:57,840
had happened because the warmth of it
showed that the object had had really been

947
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,680
there, something had been there and
stopped the car. That's one of the

948
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:02,840
objects we have. We have another
object from the nineteen fifties as well,

949
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:09,399
sorry, from the nineteen thirties as
well, that fell from the sky from

950
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:15,520
an object that was seen in broad
daylight. And that is not containing and

951
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:21,520
it's strange metal or anything else as
well, but the story is very strange.

952
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:26,960
It's fell from this glowing globe of
light that was picked up by the

953
01:26:27,119 --> 01:26:30,560
by a farmer. But that that's
the only two objects we do have to

954
01:26:30,720 --> 01:26:34,039
tell you A few Wow, wow, that's amazing. I mean, you

955
01:26:34,159 --> 01:26:42,079
see a lot of these UFOs that
are dropping something you know, are dripping

956
01:26:42,279 --> 01:26:46,039
or whatever. You know, that's
really really is quite bizarre. Um.

957
01:26:46,279 --> 01:26:51,359
Sorry color our costume and you didn't
pick you up. Please do please do

958
01:26:51,600 --> 01:27:02,520
try calling back. Yeah, I
mean you hear about like how Charles Holt

959
01:27:03,079 --> 01:27:05,840
you know, and Reynolds from Forrest
said, you know, he went and

960
01:27:06,039 --> 01:27:12,399
tried to figure out what he saw
that was dripping off of, you know,

961
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,479
the object that he started bouncing through
the trees, and they couldn't you

962
01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:21,039
know, couldn't really find anything.
So um. Anyway, our caller did

963
01:27:21,159 --> 01:27:27,920
call back and we have Steve on
the line from Las Vegas. Welcome to

964
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:33,439
the show, Steve, you got
a question for our guests. Stevie there

965
01:27:36,079 --> 01:27:45,560
says he's on air. Hello,
Steve, you there. Hmm, I

966
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:49,119
don't hear him. Do you hear
him? Klass, Nope, it's showing.

967
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:51,920
Everything looks good on this end.
I'm not sure what's going on.

968
01:27:54,680 --> 01:28:00,520
Okay, put him back on hold, and well, I don't know if

969
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:08,279
there's a problem with this system,
I'll try it again, Steve, can

970
01:28:08,359 --> 01:28:14,880
you hear us? Looks like I
can see the see that he's talking,

971
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,720
but we are not hearing anything on
this end. So it looks like we

972
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:23,920
might have an issue. Okay,
I'll cry again. I'll cry. Oh

973
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:28,319
there you are, Steve. Yes, hi yes, oh hi? So

974
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,359
okay we got hello gentlemen. Yes, I have a question. M I

975
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:35,119
woke night, so I just kind
of missed a little the show. I'm

976
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:40,199
not sure if you covered the topic
on the subject on my question. But

977
01:28:40,359 --> 01:28:45,039
my question to you, sir,
is um, every day that's been happening

978
01:28:45,079 --> 01:28:47,119
in the past few years, two
years and you apology in the US.

979
01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:56,079
Um started with the military offering new
guidelines to pilots and opening it up a

980
01:28:56,119 --> 01:28:59,760
little bit for the reports, and
then comes, as you know, um,

981
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:05,279
the nimits in and everything that's been
going on in the US ad cup

982
01:29:05,399 --> 01:29:10,920
years. What do you go on
that? I mean, why why you

983
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:15,359
think the government's opening it up and
what do you think you apology is going

984
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:19,199
here in the US. Oh,
thank you for the question, Stev.

985
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:24,399
It's a very interesting a couple of
years, the last couple of years,

986
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:28,920
of course, because of what's happened
in the United States and the films from

987
01:29:29,119 --> 01:29:33,199
those US Navy pilots or of course
shown all over the world. And I

988
01:29:33,319 --> 01:29:39,039
think the most important thing coming out
of this is that this topic is taken

989
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:44,399
more and more serious. I've watched
so many US TV shows now and news

990
01:29:45,239 --> 01:29:49,600
cost as well, that the anchors
and all the people involved are taking this

991
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:55,640
serious now. So whatever comes from
this, it's really done. Something good

992
01:29:56,279 --> 01:30:00,399
from that. If you've ever got
to know what the Nimits guys did see,

993
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,640
I'm not sure. I'm not sure
that the Navy knows either. I

994
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:09,000
think there are as baffled as we
are, really, and I hope that

995
01:30:09,279 --> 01:30:15,119
we can get some more information out
from the Navy. There their research.

996
01:30:15,279 --> 01:30:18,600
I mean, they have done investigations
into this that we have not seen yet,

997
01:30:19,079 --> 01:30:24,399
and they have said that they will
not show but hopefully someday they will

998
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:30,920
show that and they will know more
about it. I thank you so much.

999
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,720
I'm one question. Do you think
disclosure can happen in the US in

1000
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:41,000
any way or around the world from
another country or anyway? Yeah, it

1001
01:30:41,079 --> 01:30:48,680
means really, I think that disclosure
has happened in many countries already, because

1002
01:30:49,279 --> 01:30:54,920
there are governments, I mean,
there are at least military that have gone

1003
01:30:55,039 --> 01:30:59,840
on record saying that there are things
that they don't know what it is.

1004
01:31:00,319 --> 01:31:02,800
But if you mean that they're going
to tell that we are visited or we

1005
01:31:03,119 --> 01:31:06,960
know what those uf us are.
I'm not sure because I don't show that

1006
01:31:08,079 --> 01:31:12,479
they know either. I think they
are as a baffled as we are.

1007
01:31:13,119 --> 01:31:16,520
So I'm not waiting for any disclosure
yet. Hopefully we will get to know

1008
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:21,960
more from the governments. I think
they know more than we. But the

1009
01:31:23,079 --> 01:31:27,920
answer to the question, all right, hey, Steve, thanks for the

1010
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,840
call. Oh, thank you.
Thank you gentlemen very much, and thank

1011
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:34,159
you for both of your hard work
in your ability. We appreciate it.

1012
01:31:34,399 --> 01:31:41,119
He thank you lot. As far
as the limits in that whole case that

1013
01:31:42,039 --> 01:31:47,119
is that is baffling, I think
that's probably or could be the one of

1014
01:31:47,159 --> 01:31:53,239
the biggest cases. You know,
it definitely has been for many many years

1015
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:58,039
one of the bigger cases, because
of the witnesses, the quality of the

1016
01:31:58,119 --> 01:32:02,039
witnesses, the military involved and all
that, and then the Navy actually changing

1017
01:32:02,079 --> 01:32:09,199
a few policies leased around that.
And there's one very interesting thing within the

1018
01:32:09,279 --> 01:32:18,760
Nimist observations that during those days of
those observations, several witnesses were telling about

1019
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:28,359
those objects coming down very fast from
very high twenty thirty thou feet or something

1020
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:32,600
like more, and coming down to
the sea and maybe going up again very

1021
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,479
fast. And I've seen the same
here in Sweden when I enjoy a pilot

1022
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:42,199
too. In nineteen seventy seven,
chased one of those objects out in the

1023
01:32:42,319 --> 01:32:46,840
Baltic area, because he told me
that he when he approached the object suddenly

1024
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:51,159
started to climb and he was trying
to get closer to it, but he

1025
01:32:51,319 --> 01:33:00,319
was outflown by it and the object
vanished suddenly around well I think it was

1026
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:04,600
at least forty thousand meters or something
like that. He couldn't see it anymore

1027
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:09,399
on his radar screen. It was
traveling right out into space. As he

1028
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:14,199
told me, the same thing you
saw in the Nimits stories. Really,

1029
01:33:14,399 --> 01:33:18,039
the objects moving like that, like
dropping and going up very very fast.

1030
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:23,520
Do we have as far as you
know, I mean, I don't know

1031
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:29,880
what government or all governments have any
type of scanning. You know, satellites

1032
01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:32,960
up you know, high high in
the altitude where you know, if objects

1033
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:38,199
were coming in from say, um, you know, out in the Solar

1034
01:33:38,279 --> 01:33:42,039
system somewhere, that we'd actually be
able to detect them. It seems like

1035
01:33:42,159 --> 01:33:47,079
they would. We would have that
capability. And if there are also satellites

1036
01:33:47,199 --> 01:33:53,920
up there that can see ball eyes
coming in from outer space and going into

1037
01:33:54,000 --> 01:34:00,840
the atmosphere, I mean large meteors
that we we know that and things start

1038
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:05,760
that are published from time to time, and the most many of the US

1039
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:12,720
spy satellites can see things like that
as well, So they could probably see

1040
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,880
other objects as well if they are
coming in from outside the atmosphere and going

1041
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:20,960
into into Earth. Yeah. I
mean, I'm just wondering if there was

1042
01:34:21,039 --> 01:34:27,560
any thing like that happening during the
NMITS encounters, if there was any type

1043
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:30,760
of documentation, you know, because
it would seem like the Navy would have

1044
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:35,760
access to that if they were really
investigating. Well, I think most of

1045
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:41,039
the American spy satellites are not over
the US territory. I mean they are

1046
01:34:41,119 --> 01:34:43,720
looking for something else. No,
that's true. So yeah, so the

1047
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:48,560
best pictures are probably not there.
They are over the North Korea Iran or

1048
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:55,359
whatever. Right, Yeah, I
get that, You're probably right. And

1049
01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:59,720
as far as the Nimits case in
particular, I know, there was this

1050
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:04,079
um, this guy that was,
you know, claiming to be in the

1051
01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:12,840
Air Force intelligence and saying that the
Air Force was actually trying to see what

1052
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:15,720
the Navy would come up with.
Their um, you know, a secret

1053
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:19,640
craft that drones or whatever was they're
flying. I don't know if you've followed

1054
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:26,039
any of that. I didn't buy
it. I don't know how what has

1055
01:35:26,079 --> 01:35:30,079
happened in the last few weeks as
far as that whole thing goes. But

1056
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:35,319
have you heard anything about that?
He was claiming the Air Force these I

1057
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:41,159
heard about it, but I'm a
little skeptical about that as well as you

1058
01:35:41,279 --> 01:35:45,399
are. But I think it's interesting
that US Air Force has not came up

1059
01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:49,239
with new roles. Just the US
Navy. They have been quite exactly.

1060
01:35:50,279 --> 01:35:55,479
They're doing something else something I don't
know why, because US Air Force should

1061
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:59,199
say something in this as well,
you would think at least. Yeah,

1062
01:35:59,239 --> 01:36:04,479
I mean they're the protectors of our
skies here. Yeah, yeah, absolutely

1063
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:12,880
so, I mean the two different
identities of your army that give quite mixed

1064
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:17,359
positions. Yeah, yeah, A
lot of that doesn't make any sense.

1065
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:23,439
And like I said in the beginning, it's almost as baffling as the UFO

1066
01:36:23,560 --> 01:36:29,279
topic, you know, in general. Yeah, but but it does seem

1067
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,600
it does seem promising to me anyway. Yeah, to be as well,

1068
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:42,800
absolutely, Yeah, and as far
as um when you do a talk and

1069
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:46,520
a lecture and you have you know, people ask questions at the end.

1070
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:50,920
I'm sure that's probably what happens there. I would assume, m what do

1071
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:56,640
you say when someone says, well, are they aliens or something like that?

1072
01:36:56,720 --> 01:36:58,520
What do you say? What do
you how do you answer that?

1073
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,159
I'm telling them that we don't know
that. I mean, we have so

1074
01:37:03,279 --> 01:37:10,520
many reports of entities. Other entities
as well. Should look through the history.

1075
01:37:11,479 --> 01:37:16,119
We've got so many folklore entities that
were taking for granted, just maybe

1076
01:37:16,279 --> 01:37:18,880
hundred and fifty years back or a
hundred years. A hundred years back,

1077
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:29,439
they are more they were more reported
than today's aliens. I don't really see

1078
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:35,960
any any distinction between the folklore entities
and the aliens. I think we could

1079
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:40,960
have they could have the same answer
at the end. It could be something

1080
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:45,680
to deal with with ourselves. It
could be some physical part of it as

1081
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:54,039
well. I mean, I get
today reports of gnomes here in Sweden and

1082
01:37:54,279 --> 01:38:02,159
alves. Really yeah, and so
they actually call contact your organization for something

1083
01:38:02,279 --> 01:38:06,159
like that. I mean, I've
written so many books, and people read

1084
01:38:08,199 --> 01:38:11,840
my books and they know I'm interested
in all of this, so they write

1085
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:17,680
to me. And so I got
many many stories about the meetings with entities

1086
01:38:18,119 --> 01:38:23,439
of different kinds. I mean,
I went to church here in Sweden and

1087
01:38:24,399 --> 01:38:30,119
where people met Virgin Mary and they
had seen her for a couple of days.

1088
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:33,199
So I went there. It was
a Jude's mass, two thousand people

1089
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:40,479
attending, and suddenly people started to
see Virgin Mary outside the window and they

1090
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:44,840
were taking pictures and everyone were leaning
out trying to see her. And I

1091
01:38:45,039 --> 01:38:48,279
was there. I didn't see anything, but afterwards people were telling me what

1092
01:38:48,399 --> 01:38:54,279
they have seen, and they really
had seen something that they thought were a

1093
01:38:54,399 --> 01:39:01,359
real person to Virgin So well,
it's hard to tell that people are telling

1094
01:39:01,399 --> 01:39:05,479
your stories what really happened. Wow. Interesting, it looks like we have

1095
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:11,000
a color from your neck of the
woods. Patrick Johnson from Sweden, Welcome

1096
01:39:11,039 --> 01:39:15,640
to the show. Patrick, Thank
you, thank you very much. Hello

1097
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:21,079
clous one, a member of your
group. You to Sweden? Yes,

1098
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:26,319
can you hear me? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, hey thanks for

1099
01:39:26,399 --> 01:39:31,960
calling um. Yeah, yeah,
thank you, thank you. I was

1100
01:39:32,319 --> 01:39:39,479
for about one year ago. I
was I was going outside of khans and

1101
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:44,439
Sweden, south of Sweden, and
yeah, I was going out late at

1102
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:48,960
the night, absolutely and I remember
I was sending this info to Youth for

1103
01:39:49,119 --> 01:39:56,319
Sweden, too close one and it
was ii S, you know, the

1104
01:39:56,359 --> 01:40:01,039
International Space Station. I could see
that, uh when they're investigating. Yeah,

1105
01:40:01,439 --> 01:40:04,760
maybe you remember it, because I
don't know. I do remember that,

1106
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:11,760
yeah you do. Yeah. But
but the thing I thought was so

1107
01:40:12,199 --> 01:40:17,880
so amazing it was when it was
disappeared, something came back and then I

1108
01:40:18,039 --> 01:40:26,399
just saw something a light going back. When the iis was landishing from the

1109
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:30,800
sky, something came back and then
it's just puff right up in the sky

1110
01:40:32,079 --> 01:40:40,600
in the in an amazing speed,
which followed the same tectory, follow the

1111
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:47,039
same tractory back yet yeah, h
yes, exactly exactly just like behind it

1112
01:40:47,479 --> 01:40:53,319
actually saw was the left a little
bit. And it was so amazing.

1113
01:40:53,399 --> 01:40:58,000
When I I did did call,
it was late at the night and I

1114
01:40:58,199 --> 01:41:03,680
did call my brother and woke him
up and just I saw I saw us

1115
01:41:03,680 --> 01:41:08,359
fault because you say us fault,
because I couldn't say it was a flying

1116
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:14,239
saucer. I couldn't say that because
it was an aden so flying object and

1117
01:41:14,399 --> 01:41:21,520
it was amazing and and I I
know both kinds of strange things because since

1118
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:28,880
two thousand and one, I have
driven a site called the Smoke webbon or

1119
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:36,159
called ghost webbing English and investigating no
when the activities. So I have captured

1120
01:41:36,239 --> 01:41:44,119
things, um since two thousand and
one, and and I have things captured

1121
01:41:44,399 --> 01:41:51,800
individuals. So I know I saw
this and it was amazing. What you're

1122
01:41:51,840 --> 01:41:55,760
telling me is very interesting. I
mean it's very hard to tell, of

1123
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:59,720
course what it could have been.
But I mean I understand that you're really

1124
01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:04,680
remember this because it was so strange. Yeah, thank you, thank you

1125
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:09,960
for telling me the story. I
appreciate it. I have to tell a

1126
01:42:10,079 --> 01:42:16,560
story. I actually I thought I
was seeing them International Space Station to one

1127
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:21,920
night I was out several years ago. I lived on a golf course and

1128
01:42:23,039 --> 01:42:25,960
I was out on the golf course
at night and I was looking up.

1129
01:42:26,359 --> 01:42:29,039
I was walking the dog and I
was looking up and I saw I said,

1130
01:42:29,079 --> 01:42:31,800
that has to be the International Space
Station. It's so big, and

1131
01:42:32,159 --> 01:42:36,199
you know the lights. It was
bright. It was very bright, but

1132
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:41,479
uh, but all of a sudden
it moved sideways. And then I said,

1133
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:44,680
no, I can't have another UFO
sighting. No one will take me

1134
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:48,600
seriously. So I don't know what
it was. It might have been atmospheric

1135
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:54,680
or something, but anyway, that
was that was interesting. I don't really

1136
01:42:54,760 --> 01:42:58,680
know what it was, but yeah, it's very hard to tell about the

1137
01:42:59,119 --> 01:43:04,359
lights in the sky. It could
be uh yeah it Patrick, thank you,

1138
01:43:04,439 --> 01:43:11,239
thank you for your yeah, thank
thank you very much and have a

1139
01:43:11,279 --> 01:43:17,000
nice thing. Yeah and Patrick,
yeah yeah, yeah, thank you.

1140
01:43:17,119 --> 01:43:19,520
M It's time for you go to
bed. It's two o'clock in the morning.

1141
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:26,239
They all right, thank you,
all right, thank you, thank

1142
01:43:26,239 --> 01:43:30,640
you, bye bye. All right. We have about seven minutes or so

1143
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:33,000
left. Um, so if anyone
wants to give a ring, uh,

1144
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:38,840
you can do so. Otherwise I'm
taking down the number for pretty soon here.

1145
01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:43,680
Um. So what's next on the
on your agenda? You say you

1146
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:49,680
write a book a year, must
have something planned. I'm writing a book

1147
01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:55,680
about things that fold from the sky
right now. It would be published in

1148
01:43:56,479 --> 01:44:00,399
September, so, I mean it
could be anything. It could be meteorites,

1149
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:06,039
could be a frogs fish, could
be a radiation from the sun,

1150
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:12,600
thinks that affect human beings and the
earth that falls from the sky at fourteen

1151
01:44:12,680 --> 01:44:16,239
stuff, and I think it could
be very interesting read. That's my main

1152
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:24,079
topic right now. But also UFO
Sweden is fifty years in April, which

1153
01:44:24,119 --> 01:44:32,199
we will have a three day conference
and exhibition with Chris Allbeck with the big

1154
01:44:32,239 --> 01:44:40,880
guy who knows everything about UFOs before
in nineteen forty seven, he will be

1155
01:44:41,039 --> 01:44:45,279
giving a talk, and also Dave
Clark, who was the British professor who

1156
01:44:45,399 --> 01:44:53,039
saved the files from destruction when it
comes to the British defense uf files.

1157
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:56,880
So both of them will be here
in Sweden giving talks and we will open

1158
01:44:56,920 --> 01:45:00,439
a fu for everyone to visit as
well. So that is also a very

1159
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:05,000
big thing for us. And go
into Britain again to save some more stuff

1160
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:12,399
in April. What type of storage
space do you have there? You must

1161
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:16,840
have a lot, you know.
We have Bob Ricard with the publisher what's

1162
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:21,960
the publisher of fourteen Times. We
live in his house in the north or

1163
01:45:23,039 --> 01:45:28,960
London and his basement is the storage
place for everything bring there and after that

1164
01:45:29,119 --> 01:45:33,840
we send it by a lorry to
Sweden. So I see that's just the

1165
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:42,560
plan this time again. Wow?
Well interesting And and so if if someone

1166
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:47,439
actually had something they wanted to donate
to you, um, they could reach

1167
01:45:47,479 --> 01:45:51,640
out to you basically, um,
And what do you tell them as far

1168
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:58,640
as you know how these things are
cared for. We are very very h

1169
01:45:59,439 --> 01:46:04,199
skilled. We're taking care of material
that people sends to us. We have

1170
01:46:04,279 --> 01:46:13,479
done this since nineteen seventy three and
we are we are very very you can

1171
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:20,560
say we don't throw anything away.
Everything is saved and if something is broken,

1172
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:25,880
we mend it. So if anyone
wants to get in contact with AF

1173
01:46:26,279 --> 01:46:30,039
you have all the contact on AF
dot s. And we also need,

1174
01:46:30,119 --> 01:46:35,960
of course donations informal money to keep
us running to help you out there,

1175
01:46:36,239 --> 01:46:41,399
to get information from us. That
is the most important thing. Right now,

1176
01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:44,439
we're looking for a new locality to
move to so we can have one

1177
01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:49,920
roof over everything we have instead of
fourteen different localities. And if we can

1178
01:46:50,079 --> 01:46:56,039
do that, we would have a
museum there as well and be more efficient

1179
01:46:56,479 --> 01:47:00,560
in scanning and more efficient in helping
people. Yeah, when you scan,

1180
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:04,359
I mean scanning, it just takes
so long, doesn't it so much time?

1181
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:10,479
It does. At one point we
had several people doing the scannings.

1182
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:13,680
Right now we only have one.
I would actually take too because one of

1183
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:18,119
our board members it is doing a
huge scanning project at this house as well.

1184
01:47:19,159 --> 01:47:26,279
But two people are good, but
it should be ton people. Because

1185
01:47:26,279 --> 01:47:30,800
we have scan maybe three percent of
everything we have. We have millions of

1186
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:35,000
things that we want to scan,
but we haven't had time to do Wow,

1187
01:47:35,119 --> 01:47:39,439
millions of things. See, yeah, I can believe that. Well

1188
01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:44,239
excellent. Well, so we are
right at the end of our show,

1189
01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:47,680
and I want to thank you so
much class as as always, it's always

1190
01:47:48,079 --> 01:47:51,720
a lot of fun to speak with
you, and I know you stayed up

1191
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:55,479
really late and I wanted to let
you know I really do appreciate that.

1192
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:59,159
Oh, it's not a problem.
I'm glad to be on your show and

1193
01:47:59,359 --> 01:48:02,760
it's pure really. Yeah, you're
one of the people I consider a friend

1194
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:10,479
that i've you know, have met
through this crazy topic. Absolutely the very

1195
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:14,000
saying to you about it. Yes, all right, you take care,

1196
01:48:15,119 --> 01:48:16,920
take care as well. All right, look with your show. All right,

1197
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:20,319
thanks a lot, Okay, good
night, all right everyone, So

1198
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:27,880
that is it for our show this
evening. Next week we have Chris O'Brien

1199
01:48:28,199 --> 01:48:31,119
is going to be back with us, so that should he's always a character.

1200
01:48:31,159 --> 01:48:34,239
It should be a lot of fun, So tune in next week for

1201
01:48:34,359 --> 01:48:38,119
that. And again I want to
thank everyone that helps out with the show.

1202
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:43,760
And remember anyone can support the show. Go over to podcast ufo dot

1203
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:47,640
com. All that informations there and
our t shirts are for sale also,

1204
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:54,079
so T shirts and all types of
things with the nice graphic that Diane Cash

1205
01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:59,920
made for us with the podcast UFO
logo on it. So anyway, check

1206
01:49:00,119 --> 01:49:05,319
that out and again we'll be back
next week and remember to keep your eyes

1207
01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:06,279
to the sky.