Hello, and welcome to the show. This is Martin. Willis your host,
and our guest tonight is a repeat guests, Class Vaughn from Sweden.
I always enjoy our discussion and I'm sure you will as well. And we're
gonna be talking about all kinds of interesting topics tonight and Class is Chairman of
Ore for the Archives of the Unexplained, otherwise known as a FU. We're
gonna be talking about that. He's also the International director of UFO Sweden,
among many other hats that he wears. Class will be coming up in just
a few few minutes here. I do want to thank everyone for helping out
and supporting the show. Anyone can do that. How you can see our
Patreon banner over at our website at podcast ufo dot com. And while you're
there, check out our blog this week from Charles lear Um and this week's
blog is called UFOs and the twenty first Century. It's a great one.
Another great blog that I forgot to mention last week is titled UFOs Spaceman,
Ultra Terrestrials or what the Strange Case of Woodrow, Daring Burger and Strange Den.
We're getting some feedback here, Hm that was that was strange. I'm
not sure where the feedback's coming from. Um Anyway, it sounded great actually,
So that is a really that's an interesting case, I was saying.
And there's an audio interview, so check that out. That happened back in
nineteen sixty six. Who was interviewed, I think the next day, and
so that clip is up there too. In that blog. I've mentioned several
times over the last several years that Australia is well actually per capita as our
number one listener to this show, and I want to give a shout out
to all those people in Australia and let you know that we are thinking about
you. And it's a terrible these bush fires out there. Feel so bad
for all the people that are misplaced and all the poor animals out there.
It's really terrible. So hang in there, Australia. Also, in the
news, there's a lot of people writing me about the Navy. You know,
it seems like every week you get some someone's writing me about the Navy.
And headlines that were sent out this week top secret UFO files could gravely
damage US national security if released, the Navy says, and it does seem
like the Navy has been very outspoken about the UFO topic these days, and
that's almost as mysterious as UFOs themselves. And I'm wondering what the heck the
agenda is, if any If the Navy has an agenda, it's it's interesting
and we will know eventually, That's all I can say. But for now
it's just a mystery, and I think it's time to pull in our guests.
Class Faun, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm glad to
be back. Yes, and it's midnight over there, so I really appreciate
you staying up late for us over here in the East coast. Oh,
not the problem. It's dark and the wintry, but no snow here in
Sweeten Adult. Oh yeah. You know a lot of people have been writing
me and saying, oh, you poor thing, you got all the snow.
I'm right on the coast, so I right now we just have a
little dusting and that's it. We've been really lucky, really lucky this year,
so I'll take it. Not much of a fan of but so class,
can you for the person that I think it was over a year ago
you were on last time, But for the person that is unaware of your
you know who you are, basically, can you give them your background and
kind of a nutshell because a lot of people have heard you a number of
times. Yeah, I've been around as a geophologists since nineteen seventy four when
I started a small uful society in my hometown in the south of Sweden,
and since then I spent nearly every day a couple of hours researching UFO cases.
And I'm interested in the topic because I really want to know the answer.
I haven't told the answers. I want to know what people sees in
the sky, and I try to help people to identify what they see in
the skies. But what is left the really eVols. That is of course
the thing that gets me ticking. And I've been a chairman for You of
Sweden for many, many years, but since a couple of years back we
decided that some younger person than Niche should take takeover and I'm no wise chairman
and I work a lot with international contexts in You of Sweden, which is
very important. And I also of course sherman for Archives for the Unexplained,
which is this huge archive we run, yes, the archive that it's really
amazing. You and I have talked before about I think you're telling me you're
your shelves. The shelve space you have of UFO related box is there's none
other in the world right now. It's the largest in the world. Really,
it's nothing to compare with. We started uniting MITY three in one locality
in the south of Sweden and now we have fourteen localities in the same area
in north Shipping, which is five hundred square meters six hundred square yards and
a shelf capacity of three kilometers which is nearly five miles. So yeah,
we started with one bookshelf and now we have several and the library is fifty
five thousand books and eighty thousand magazines and more than fifty thousand case files from
different countries, millions of documents and use paper clippings, recordings and yeah,
TV programs, paraphernalia. We collect everything regarding the unknown, from uphos to
ghosts and can is that open to the public, like, can someone come
in and do some research there themselves. Yes, we are open to the
public, and of course if you are knocking our door, we can help
you. But we can also help you through internet through a special download site
that we have. We published some magazines that we are scanning all the time,
which we have the clearance from the copyright told her we published them on
our download side, so you can go there, but you can email us
and ask for help. And if you do, see we are we are
there for everyone, really who's interested in the topic. I really like visuals
and this. I'm going to hold up your book here. Let's see.
I think I can do that here, hang on just a second. Well,
I had a screen where I could just pull in on this, but
I'm not seeing where it is. Let's try this, okay, all right,
so it's called just trying to adjust it. They're files of the Unexplained,
the hidden history of the forgotten, Photographs from the world of the unknown.
And it's a great I love this book. Thank you for sending it,
by the way. But there's so many wonderful graphics in this all the
way through and all the way up to modern times. You have. You
have quite a variety, quite a variety in there. And what is your
what is the earliest book you have on the shelf that talks about UFOs.
Well, if you go back to the oldest book at all, it's from
the sixteen hundreds about Nostra Damas that we have of course books from Charles fort
his early books from the early nineteen hundreds, which probably is the oldest real
ureful books. But we go further back we have books that or older as
well, when enigmas or mysteries in disguise did not have any label. They
were just called meteors, which is at that time was the name for strange
things that you could see in disguise. So we have round fifty five thousand
books. Of course many of them are old, but lots of them are
our newables as well. And what about the languages? Do you have them
in multiple languages? Yeah, of course most of them are in English,
but we have a very large collection in Russia. We had a guy from
Tokyo coming to us looking through our Japanese collections, stayed for a couple of
days. We have really any language that we can collect, lots of French
books and of course every European language we can can find. Wow interesting,
And so where do you get where do you get all this material? Anyway,
then we get there from all over the world, not come from Great
Britain and the norther countries of course, but also the rest of Europe and
the US. And when we get surplus books and magazines, we sell them
through our shop, AFU shop, so we can get money and we can
also help researchers from all over the world to get titles that they cannot find
on Amazon or anywhere else. Really, we have so many hard to find
books that we have maybe multiple copies of them, so we can help researchers
with them. I remember the last time we talked in this baffles me.
It's that your country basically takes us topic seriously or you get very little ridicule
of any Is that right, Yeah, that's right, that's right. They're
still right, And it's very much up to you for Sweden and our work,
I should say, because we have always been treated very good from the
authority, but maybe not always. That's the last thirty years or something like
that, because we have shown them that we are a serious partner, that
we don't have the answers. We are not speculating. We want to know
what uf US are, and of course they want as well. So we
have now copies of I think every single UFO report that have passed through the
Swedish defense notorities since the early nineteen hundreds up till a couple of years back.
And that is a very very good corporation. Wow. And that includes
the ghost Rockets absolutely. It includes the ghost Flyers from the nineteen thirties and
the ghost Rockets. The ghost Flyers are not that very well known as the
ghost Rockets. But just a couple of weeks ago we got all the printed
papers from the Swedish War Archives regarding the ghost flyers, which was an earlier
phenomenon scanned. It's a thousands of the five thousand, five hundred scanned pages
of reports and investigations into these early nineteen thirties phenomenon that really baffled the Swedish
military for many years. Wow. Because you know, I mean for the
most part, people will talk about, you know, the modern UFO era
as nineteen forty seven roswell on, but there was and then of course there
were the food fighters that people were seeing during World War Two, but not
not like what you seem to be talking about. Can you go into more
detail about you said there are five thousand scans, so can you go into
more detail about what people thought they were seeing? Yeah? I mean it
was during a couple of years in the middle of the nineteen thirties that people
saw first lights in the sky, which I mean people do in a hoodays
as well, but they were flying in very strange patterns and over areas that
were controlled by the military. But they also saw what they thought were aircraft,
aircraft coming flying over the north and part northern part of their aircraft chasing
this ghost flyer, but they never caught him or were even near him.
Some of them this aircraft, one of them at least crashed, So it
was up under parliamentary discussion, and they were really really interested in in pinpointing
which country they thought it was the Germans, maybe the Russians, or did
those those flyovers over Sweden and intrusions over Sweden. But they never really got
the hang of it. Most of the observations were, of course misinterpretations,
as always, some of them are still a little strange. Wow. And
then I always loved talking about the ghost rockets nineteen forty six. Is that
is that when that was happening? Yeah? Yeah, And for the person
that's not And they landed, and one of them landed in lakes, which
is another mystery for the person that's unfamiliar with the ghost rockets. Can you
get a little bit into that topic please? Yeah. To me, the
ghost rockets is the most interesting UFO phenomenon ab I think because they were seen
during nineteen forty six around may Abound until December of that year. And as
you said, many of those rockets they look like cigars with without small wings,
and some of them were crashing into lakes. And the interesting thing was
that everyone that did crash always crashed into a lake, and it was nearly
always around eleven twelve o'clock in the middle of the day, broad daylight and
also sunshine, and you could see the sun shining on the hull on those
rockets. You can hear them, you can see the water column when they
were crashing, and you can also hear the crash. And even though the
militaries spent thousands of hours trying to find a solution, they never did.
I thought they were the Russians, of course, but I don't think it
was neither the military. They could never prove that they were any any country
that were driving those rockets. And what did they report as far as the
sound? What were they hearing for a sound while they were hearing like a
motor, like an engine, and they were really looking like like cigar shaped
opjects. They were very much like the V bombs that not to romany juiced
during the last years of the Second World War. But compared to the V
bombs when they crashed, the V bombs left debris, maybe thousands of kilos
a couple of tons of debris. But those schools rockets never left anything,
not a trace after them. So even though they looked like rockets, they
didn't behave like rockets, and they didn't were identified as rockets either. Didn't
you maybe maybe thinking of something else, but didn't someone see one, and
more recently than nineteen forty six, like a couple or something that was hiking.
You know, we have multiple observations after nineteen forty six, quite a
few, but the one that you are thinking about happen in nineteen eighty in
summer nineteen eighty, when a couple were out hiking up in the very north
of Sweden. It was in a natural park called the Murders Natural Park and
they were walking home back to their car, which was a couple of hours
down the road, and they stopped to take a break when they were standing
there at the end of this lake, Lake Namaya. They heard strange sound
from the south and they looked up and I saw those small missile like object
with the protrusions on both of the side, like wings or tanks or whatever.
It was flying over them, just one hundred yards up in the air.
And it passed over them, and they could see it flying down towards
the lake and suddenly reverse one hundred eighty degrees, flying back towards them,
and then they were really scared, but they thought this will hit us.
But instead of hitting them, the ghost rocket landed with splash on the lake
and started sinking, and they could see it sinking on bubbles of air coming
up. And when it vanished, they they really tried to get from from
this place as fast as they could because they were thinking it could it could
explode. And they went back to the car a couple of hours to the
west and drew down to Stockholm, and they alerted the military who started an
investigation into this. And did they actually go into the lake itself to see
if they could find anything. Now, it's quite impossible to do that.
I mean, it was a couple of hundred yards out into the lake and
it's not easy. It's very cold water, and they were scared and the
military didn't he go there either. They went. They went there with a
helicopter and then looked to over the lake and they landed and tried to find
what it was, but they never dived into lake. We did, We
did in the two thousand and twelve You did, oh in that particular lake.
Yeah. We went there together with the witnesses in two thousand and twelve
and brought with us two criminal investigators from Kiruna who are also were divers,
and we mapped the seafloor with the ZNAR and we found some interesting spots around
the spot where the witnesses had pointed out the landing and the divers went down.
But what they found was that it was four meters of mud and whatever
it was that I landed there, it must have sunk underneath this mud.
So we went back two years later, two thousand and fourteen, with another
equipment that could see through the mud, and at that point we did see
something. They're resting there in the mud, but that's as far as it
went. You never never dove down. Yeah. Is it very deep anything?
It's not deep it's only four yards deep, and the four yards with
mud, but it's very difficult to go down into the mud. It's very
dangerous. So we will go back again with another instrument. Next winter we
will be there with snowmobiles on the ice. So drive this instrument that is
seeing in three dimensions and it will it will paint this object and we will
see if it's a reindeer, if it's a stone of here, maybe it's
a ghost rocket. That will give us the answer. Wow, well,
yeah, that's really something. Well let's let's shift gears and get back to
um the AFUM because you and I had a quick conversation m you know,
through email about I mentioned something about Billy Meyer's photographs of selling at Southeby's for
over twenty thousand dollars, which is really amazing. And what's your you know,
what is your thought on that? I mean, how can something like
that happen when you know most people know it's a hoax? Are Yeah?
I mean, I know I'm going to probably get a little bit of mail
from saying that, but U but most people do believe that Billy Meyer was
hoaxing, even though you know he he's handicapped and all that. But even
from the nineteen sixties. Uh, you know, there's a lot of signs
of that. I mean, we sent an investigated to Switzerland in the nineteen
late nineteen seventies, early nineteen eighties, I think it was early nineteen eighties.
It must have been two into you Billy, to industrate the case.
He was elusive. He kept away from our investigator, but we were able
to find other people and also find a lot of traces that show that he
had manufactured his pictures. Of course, but I mean seventeen of his pictures.
I mean it's prints. It's not even the negatives. I mean it's
prints sold for twenty four thousand dollars, which is amazing, of course it's
I mean, we have loads of prints from Billy Mayer. They have You
and the Princes that was sold at sotherbis are not even first generation prints some
of them. So I don't know who really bought it. But we want
to believe, you know, they want you want to believe poster. One
of those pictures are the one on the we want to believe poster, and
that is what sold them. Of course, I see, I never,
I never, So it's it's yeah, it's pop culture thing kind of.
I think it's gets it. Yeah, but it's important to tell that those
pictures came from the Wendell Stevens collection and when Stevens collection were or scattered after
his passing away, and he passed away in two thousand and ten, and
we recently were able to acquire at least half of this collection, which is
one thousand kilos two thousand, two hundred pounds, with the help of Jordan
Peace from from Rhode Valley met the Physical Library in Oregon. I met with
Jordans in California last summer and we had an agreement that he sent all this
stuff to Sweden and AFU. So we now have thousands and thousands and thousands
of mails and I mean not emails, but letters that arrived were sent to
Wendell Stevens, and all loads of material regarding the Billy Mayer case that have
never been published and never been read by anyone outside the Wendle Stevens family.
So we are now going through all of this and trying to sort it out
and to start to scan the most important parts. Wow. Wow, I've
heard I've heard about that collection. Now I thought I must be mixing this
up. But I thought Open Minds had purchased that collection. No, that's
right, but open Minds solved it and I actually turned up at Rogue Valley
in Oregon. But the other part we have also traced and I paid a
lot of money to get that to sweet and it's a part with the photos
and all the pictures. But that guy we paid the money to hasn't sent
anything to us yet, so maybe he just sits on the money at and
never fulfill disagreement with us, so that it is a problem. We really
want to fall the files, but a few now we have to go at
the break here in just a minute. But who funds these purchases for our
your materials? Yeah, I mean, it's a good questions. It's us.
It's real, thirty people who are putting between five US dollars and one
hundred US dollars every month into a few and we are also selling through a
few shop. But it's it's a business that costs us money to do.
I don't earn a nickel from this, of course. I pay loads of
money every year to keep a few afloat, and we do all of us.
We have four people on this board, and we have a couple of
guys around the world on advisory board as well that helps us with this,
But we really need more people than thirty sweets. It's only one from outside
Swedenen that is helping us, but loads of people are asking for our help.
So yeah, you know, it's a difficult talk. But what we
love to do with Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't. You wouldn't do it
if you didn't love it. All right, we're ready to go in a
break. So this is Martin willis my guest. Tonight is class onon and
hanging. They will be right back right after these messages. Well, we're
going to change the subject. We can jump back a little bit on what
we're talking about. Um And but as far as do you ever purchase material
that is you find out later that it was hoaxed or or or you know,
purposely hoaxed, Has that ever happened? Has anyone kind of pulled the
wall or try to pull the wall over your eyes? And well, we've
already seldom purchased things at all, whether Steven stuff are one of the few
we have paid for and we paid very little money for it. So and
nevertheless, if we get the hoaxed thing we do. We get pictures most
of the time. It's part of the history. It's part of the UFO
history, so it doesn't really matter. We are not in it just for
the real UFOs. We're in it for all of the how society looks upon
this subject. So we want to show everything from from the loosest, the
baddest to the brightest and the best. We save it all really hoaxes and
bona fide stuff. I was talking earlier, at the very beginning to show
about this. I can't remember the person's name from the nineteen sixty six and
um, let's see, his name was Darren Burger and Durger, are you
familiar with who we as, did you? Yeah? We have stuff from
from about him. Yeah, I'm not at verse into his case, I
should say, but we have stuff that we have helped the researchers with copies
from when they have been writing about utter Durrenberger, and I mean, we
are so many the nice things from Georgia Damski and my Thord generation pictures.
We have taped interviews with all those early nineteen fifties contacts like our Manger or
Fili Lucci and all those and those are unique. So much of what we
have it's unique. Really, it's only one copy in the world. Wow,
how about that. Yeah, it is an interesting segmentum, so to
speak. And also very much of what he was talking about his encounters was
a lot like what the contacts were talking about. I believe he said that
he went to their planet and you know, on their spaceship and all that,
and and they were they looked just like us, but we're a little
taller or something like that. I mean it was but yeah, that that
whole contact movement is really something. And uh, there's someone working on a
film that's related to one of them that contacted me and his insistent that his
great uncle or whoever it is, was one hundred percent legitimate and really did
go to Venus or whatever he did. So, yeah, the stories were
better, be better in the post, I mean, nineteen fifty nineteen sixty
stories or still very very interesting and very good, but maybe too good sometimes
at least. Yeah, all right, welcome back everyone. This is Martin
Willis and my guest tonight is Klass Swan and all the way from Sweden.
And just before we went into the break, we were talking about basically you're
kind of a self funding group. And it's which I find pretty amazing and
that you know, really no one would do this unless they had a passion
for it. I mean, you know, I mean, someone putting in
five dollars a month is not too much. Someone putting in one hundred dollars
is quite a bit. But also it's just the fact that you say that
you spend two hours at least two hours a day involved, and so you
think about the time involved and you know, chasing this stuff, you probably
have countless hours in total. Absolutely, yeah. And are there other people
as dedicated as you to this? We are a few absolutely, and also
inside you for Sweden that spent hours every day doing this. So and that's
the only way to make makes this move forward. Really if we don't did
that, well, I mean we are living under an avalanche of information coming
into a few every week. I mean, just before we started a conversation,
I secured some books and papers from a newly deceased number of you for
Sweden. I got his name five hours ago. I wrote to his uh
wife as widow and got clearance to to get his PaperWorks and his material.
And I do that all the time. Really, I'm chasing so that this
stuff isn't lost forever, which is this if we don't do it right right.
And you know, I talked with that Dave Marler quite a bit over
here, and he has, you know, quite a thing going there as
well. And I think it's great that these things are you know, are
cared for, you know, to pass along to interest you know, further
on down the line. And I'm glad you're you're both doing that. You
mentioned earlier that a lot of your books are some of your books are in
Russian, which I think is interestingly. You know, I do go to
Russia. I think I've talked to you before when I was over there,
I don't know, like once a year or something like that. I was
supposed to go this last um winter, but there was a little bit of
an accident, so I couldn't make it over there. I supposed to be
there right now actually, but oh, anyway, in nineteen ninety three you
went to Moscow and uh, let's talk about that. There was some type
of dramatic situation happened. Well, yeah, we went to Moscow, Meda
and Russian speaking friend a few in October nineteen ninety three, and what we
didn't know at that time that when we landed we were the last taxi from
the airport after us, tanks were rolling on the same street and the shooting
were starting at the Parliament because the parliament were under on the siege for a
couple of days, so it was gunshots in the streets and they were shooting
with those tanks on the Parliament, so it was on fire. And I
was standing there looking at this because I mean, I'm anni journalists, I'm
working with the largest morning newspaper in Sweden and I had to work of course.
When I came there and all the shooting started, it was a quite
surrealistic really, and we were there trying to secure contacts with Russian guthologies and
we did that, but at one point we went to the Star City where
the Cosmonauts Cosmonauts are living, and was shooting there, so we couldn't go
there. We had to go there the next day when the shooting had stopped.
So eventually we secured one thousand, one hundred original reports from from a
Russian who came to us with them, and also we copied to kgb UFO
files when we were there, so It was quite a good trip eventually,
and quite dramatic. Absolutely, Wow, you could actually get into the KGB
files. Yeah. We had a friend who went there for us and brought
the copies back. He was an editor for a Russian rocket and aircraft magazine
and he helped us with that. And you know about Russians to drink all
the time, and he was also drinking all the time. He treated us
with vodka at twelve o'clock and we were drunk in two hours. So we
thought we cannot do this anymore. It was impossible to work for us.
So the next time I met with him, I brought beer with me,
which I can handle, and I said, well, we have our own
drinks here, so I think I would go with the beer. Or so
I drink a beer, I'm yeah, I'll find the rest of the day.
Well. The doctors, I'm not not joking when I say this.
At least some doctors are over in Russia actually tell their patients to drink vodka.
It'll it'll you know, it'll help you, you know, clear your
arteries, which I think is very interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Um,
there was the average lifespan is I mean fifty six or fifty seven or
like that. Yeah, that's pretty sad, that's right, Yeah, that's
right. Yeah. Um. Now, there was a strange incident in a
park with these really tall, tall, um you know, beings that came
out of a craft in Russia. Do you remember that story? Have you
ever heard about that one? Yeah? I mean Jacques Balle wrote about it
in this book about Russia. You were for encounters, and they have been
I don't remember the city's name. I should do that, of course,
but it wasn't that long ago. It was in the nineteen nineties, I
think, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, voters, Oh that's right,
yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean there's so many stories like that
in Russia, stories about robotic like creatures. If you read the KGB files
as well, you can see that, I mean, maybe fifty percent or
mispent interpretations of their own rocket launches. But there are also cases that are
very very strange. So Russia, it's a very interesting country. You should
do more research there. If it's very hard to do that, but you
should do that. Yes, I tried to connect with people, and I
was there and I could not get very far unfortunately, you know, I
was only in Moscow for a short time. But I was in you know,
mostly on the Black Sea, in a place called nova Assisk, which
is across from Turkey. But there was a little bit of UFO activity and
people talking about it there, but not you know, it's kind of a
handful. So I wanted to against switch gears and talk about your book.
I'm going to bring that up in the England one more time if I can.
And so I do love this book, I have to say, and
can you talk about how you put that together and some of the images that
are actually in here. Yeah. I had a plan doing this for several
years, but my publisher wasn't that interested. I mean, I'll published the
book every year or written nearly thirty books by now this book. I really
wanted to write this one. So I tried to get him interested in this,
but eventually he said okay, so he printed. I mean it's a
large publishing company. They printed a Swedish edition six thousand, five hundred copies
copies, which is a small edition for me. But we a few got
funds from from a guy in the US sometimes helps us. He gave us
ten thousand dollars so we could print this English edition. So I started writing
in January, and I stopped writing in May last year, and all the
pictures were taken by a friend of my professional photographer. I brought everything in
a things in the book down to my old hometown and we spent a full
day taking hustle blood pictures, high resolution pictures of everything that I was interested
of carrying in the book. And how long did it take you to find
all these images? I mean, you know, did you got a lot
of them from your or all them from your archives? Yeah? All of
them are from a few All of them are or pictures that we have or
have the rights to use. Yeah. Yeah, it took quite a while
to ensemble all of those stuff. I mean, it's not only pictures,
it's the toys, it's posters, it's records, yeah yeah, and you
have a you have also memorabilia there as well, right, besides lots of
it, we try to to save the historial UFOs and that. Sorry,
it's not only PaperWorks, it's also memorabilia. Like like I said, posters.
When Adamski or Low Doubting or any other prominent nineteen fifties or sixties you
follow this or contact t have given a lecture, we are trying to trace
posters and save them. We save very very nice nineteen fifties toys with flying
saucers. They have worth hundreds of dollars each. Yeah, and there we
are so many things that are, as I said before, unique in the
world. And it's very very hard to find stamps to collect you for stamps,
there are a couple of ufologies around the world that do that. So
we exchange stamps from time to time. Wow, that's amazing. I never
would have thought of stamps that they're they're they're actually on stamps. About that.
And as far as you know, I mean, like you just mentioned,
I know, these toys can get like crazy. There's a you know,
vintage toy collectors, you know what they call like new in the box,
that type of thing. They can go for thousands of dollars sometimes.
Yeah, so yeah, yeah. Do you ever have people donate things to
you? Most of the things we have are donating donated to us. I
mean, we don't buy that much, so we're trying to find I travel
to England all great Brittain, I should say every year are down twenty wall
trips since the two thousand and I would do another one in April, and
I saved stuff from ethics, from from basements, from rooms in houses and
where where the it's crammed. So all of the houses we are entering are
crammed with stuff, and the wives are very happy when we are coming and
bringing all that stuff back to Sweden instead. So yes, all of that
are are done eighty to us. We don't pay anything for it. For
trialsport, we don't pay. Yeah, I was. I was in a
house kind of sort of um, you know, a prominent family down in
Massachusetts recently, and I looked up on top of their I was doing an
appraisal of their fine art and antiques and everything in their house. And I
looked up on their kitchen counter and there was a big jar up there with
an alien in it, and I just share happening. I said, what's
that? And they said that their uncle or whatever has a sent to humor
and sent it to them. So but yeah, looked at actually kind of
real and kind of scary. Oh so it wasn't real. Oh no,
no, it wasn't now, but I mean they try to make it look
real. Why do you call the a f U a fourteen archive? Well,
fourteen means really it's from Charles Fort. I mean he was the author
of four books in the early nineteen hundreds. He was the father of all
those subjects that we are collecting. It was an American writer who lived between
eighteen seventy four and nineteen thirty two, and he collected what he called damned
facts, this fact that were damned by the scientists, not interesting. He
was pouring through those scientific jobs trying to pick the gems. And it did.
It found. It found one hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of uf observations
or part normal events, I mean everything you could think of. And after
him those subjects us goes to part a normal. Everything that is strange is
called fortune. We have fourteen Times, which is a magazine still published in
London, which is a fantastic magazine which is a must read for your fologies,
of course, so that is why we call a few Fortune Library and
Fortune Archive. I see, I've never I've heard that term a number of
times, but I never really quite understood it. So so thank you for
clearing that up. What other things does the UFO Sweden do besides the a
fu well you for Sweden is an ordinary UFO society. Lucky Muthon in the
US. We have members. We print the two magazines which circulated in one
thousand, two hundred copies, the Glossy One, and we have feel investigate
their training courses every year. We had one in October where fifty five people
paid two hundred fifty dollars to spend the weekend together with me and my friends
in uth for Sweden. That when we are trying to learn how to investigate
UFO reports, and that we have done now since the middle of the nineteen
seventies every year, and that is also something that very very few UFO groups
do. Wow, so they did. That is very hugely important for us
to to let those newcomers know what people can misinterpret in the skuise because you're
must sift through all of that before getting down to the really epos. It's
a hard, hard work, but it's very very interesting of course. So
you actually had fifty five people show up, isn't that that's quite a few
people for training? And is that throughout Sweden or what throughout Sweden? And
also from Norway? They always send people from Norway to our courses and can
anybody take are your courses in in your language only? Yeah, I'm sorry
to say. It's a Swedish language course and we have been thinking of maybe
taking these to other countries because what we do is very high quality and it's
something that we should explore really, maybe do online or something. But you
need to be there because we have those encounters when when our feeling investigators are
encountering a UFO that we create for them and we do it without their knowledge
and they have to report tell what they have seen. So it's a play
really, we play with them and it's very very interesting because after they have
done this, they say, I never trust anyone after this, because you
know, they cannot really estimate the distance, they cannot really tell what they
saw. They cannot they make a drawing that is looking like the object,
because that is the circumstances that really a witnesses are exposed to. It's very
very good to be exposed to that yourself. I see. I know that
the Arizona move On does like a training course every year. I had some
people on from that, and I think that's really great because you know a
lot of times also people can decide, well maybe it's not for me too.
At the same time, you know, maybe they're expecting something else.
But yeah, yeah, but I know now that they still know what we
do and nobody is really expecting anything else but took force. Not everyone will
be a feeling investigator after this. Yeah, most of them are just interested,
you know, and we'll stay out in the perimeter of the organization.
But maybe tell people every year if we are lucky we can we can help
us feel investigators and keep them. M wow, that's that's that's not bad
really. Um. Now, Um, since you and I have last talk,
UM, and I would want to get your opinion as someone outside of
our country, what is your opinion on UM as I was talking about in
the monologue in the beginning, it seems like the Navy has really been outspoken
about the UFO topic, and what is someone like you think about that.
I mean, we are in contact with To the Stars Academy quite a lot,
and I've also talked for a long time with Louis Elisonder, who is
one of the main characters of course in TTSA. We also had one of
them from TTSA over in Sweden visiting a few so we are trying to work
together with them, and of course they were the ones that brought those film
clips out in the open, and I mean the the US Navy, what
they have done now that they have told their pilots to report what they see
in the sky, they are telling that this is well something they take seriously.
And both of that those things have been told before. I mean,
we are back in the nineteen fifties or sixties again, but not for a
while. And that is very good, which helps us. It helps everyone
that is interested in you have us all over the world because it makes or
interest on topic more mainstream in many ways. So I think it's very very
good for us whatever comes out of this. We have so many good things
coming out of it already. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of you
know, there's a lot of people that speculate that, you know, to
the Stars has an agenda. Some people think they do, some people think
they don't. Um, how do you see them, you know, personally,
how do you feel to think they're It seems to me they're moving the
needle um, you know, regardless, things happy that they're trying. They're
trying to to assemble information so they can maybe build a craft. That's what
they have been been telling. They really want to to make the most of
those fragments that may have been found from UFOs, So I wish the good
luck with that. I think it's a very very hard thing to do.
It's very problematic in many many respects. But of course they haven't agenda.
All of us has some kind of aganda. We want to go somewhere.
I mean, for myself, I want to help people with information. That's
my agenda, and I want to know what UFOs or. Of course I
don't have that insight, so I know if they're having a hidden agenda.
But yeah, I cannot really comment on that, right right. You know,
do you think that we'll ever know what UFOs are? You know,
when I started in the nineteen seventy four, I knew much less than I
know today. I know very very more about misinterpretation, so people can misinterpret
in the sky. I also know that there are some very very tough,
utiful cases that are very hard to correct, that are really nearly unbelievable about
you when you listen to the observers. H No, I'm not sure I
will live to get the answer. Who knows. I maybe old, Yeah,
it's still it's still I feel probably about the same way. You know
more or less the same way. But in Sweden, do you know,
it seems like more or less people take this seriously. UM, and you're
on TV quite a bit for representing UM. Uh, you know as the
guy. You're the UFO guy of Sweden. Basically any anytime there's a TV
show on, right, I mean, they call you and bring you in
UM. And what about science there? You know, the science community.
Have any you know, Swedish science looked into this topic seriously? Well,
not really. I mean, we have very good contact with astronomers and physicists
and psychologists. We have a couple of those on the board that helps us
with the difficult cases. They evaluate our work and looks at the cases that
we found most interesting. But there have not been any any research into UFOs
in Sweden. I'm sorry to say, but it's a very difficult topic.
Of course, it's hard to investigate. But when you say that people here
in Sweden are interested and open about it, that is true because we knocked
the doors. During a couple of years. We talked with one thousand and
six hundred sweeds and out of the one thousand and six hundred sweeds, ten
percent of them had seen something in the sky that they couldn't really understand,
and most of them had never told it to anyone elseide their own family.
So it's one million suits. I mean we are ten millions in Sweden.
One million suits can be I mean holding back. There are very very interesting
observations that we will never never know about. We had twenty thousand observations in
use Sweden's files. That's nothing if there's one million out there that don't talk
about them. Yeah, you know. One of the things I think about
too, is are there really that many UFOs actually flying around Earth? And
if so, you know, are they all from different places? Where they
from? And if they are from another planet you know, I mean who
knows for you know where they're from. But still there's so many sightings.
It's just it's unbelievable if you really think about it. Yeah, but to
be honest that most of them are misinterpretations or mundane objects. If we give
every sighting the time it deserves, we usually find an explanation to it.
I mean, really, of us our scars, we may get one or
two every year here in Sweden if we are lucky, and not every year
there is one. But the ones that are left that have really physical impact
on maybe a car or something else. They are the most interesting, of
course, but they are not that many that people would tend to believe if
we get two hundred and fifty reports every year, only handful or interesting enough
to really go more in more detailed about. Yeah. Sure, all right,
Well we're ready to go on the break. So this is Martin Willis.
My guest tonight is Class one, and we'll be right back right after
the the messages. All right, welcome back. My guest tonight is Class
Von from Sweden. And we were talking UFOs and and documents and books and
archives and all kinds of interesting things and the UFO world. You saved like
a bunch of stuff in California that was in a garage or something like that.
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the oldest UFO groups in the
world, called Borderland Science Research Association. And we had tried for years to
get in contact with the person who was in charge of this nineteen forties organization.
Wow. We called him, we wrote to him, we emailed him,
we tried every way we could, but he never answered us. But
suddenly, one night, at two o'clock in the night, I called him
and he picked up the phone and after that he was hooked and I met
with him and a couple of years ago, twenty sixteen, I went to
California to get with my family on holiday, and then we met and we
packed all of this stuff, this wonderful stuff from the garage which he had
saved for decades moving with him, and we sent it to Sweden and now
it's sorted. We had scanned a lot of it, we had helped him
with scannings, we had got things back from us. We do that.
We tried to help people with getting things back as well, of course.
And I mean it's from nineteen forties up till the nineteen nineties, and it's
it's fantastic. It's letters and reports and newspaper clippings and loads of stuff.
Wow. Wow, that's amazing. And when you ship something like that,
how do you ship it? I mean, it's so expensive to ship international.
It is. When we shipped this huge collection from Oregon, this one
thousand kilos, it costs around one thousand and five hundred dollars, which is
less than I thought. Well yeah, but it comes customs and other other
stuff as well, so it eventually maybe two thousand dollars tops, so well,
we can do it, but it's not for free though. Yeah,
and you're traveling all over the place. Can you talk about some of the
other places you've traveled to find things? Yeah, I'm traveled a lot to
Europe, northern part of Europe, bainly, but Britain is my main main
traveling focus because in the nineteen fifties there is so many Uther groups in Britain
and all of them had exchanged with all of the world. They got the
magazines from Japan, from the US, they had letters from uphologists and contacts
all over the world, so you can find nearly anything you want when it
comes to the early history of UFOs in Britain, and I mean Gordon Crayton,
who was the founder, Sorry, not the founder. He was the
publisher of Lyne Saucial Review for many, many years. I met with him
in two thousand and one, I think, the first time. When he
passed away. A couple of years later, I was the first to enter
his house and his son had told me that do not go up to the
second floor. So I went there, of course the first I did,
and we couldn't even open the door. It was so crammed with stuff.
We've spent maybe twenty minutes trying to get in, and we did that.
The whole room was filled with PaperWorks, with books, with reports, with
all stuff from fifty years of uphology from you over work, and eventually we
found a staircase. We didn't see it after an hour we found it because
it was underneath books. And we went up to another floor where we found
a library. And eventually took us ten years to get all of this to
Sweden because they didn't want to part with it. But I went there ten
times talking to the guy who to care of this and eventually said take it.
So now we have it's ordered and scanned some of it, but we
are going to scan much more of it. It's hugely important our character to
find source Review was the most important magazine for many, many many years.
Wow. And when you scan these things are they do you ever put them
up on your website where people can actually get to some of this material.
While we have a server where we put everything on. It's not that easy
just to publish anything and everything. It's very personal. It's sometimes you must
redact witness these names and things like that. So even though we have scanned
all of the British Ueful Research Associations files which I found during twenty years of
travels in maybe twenty five or thirty different places around Britain. We've scanned all
of it and giving it back in the scanned format to BEFORA. We cannot
publish it because it's very sensitive and they must make the decision what they want
to make public in that way. But we do make public all of those
magazines that we have cleared the copyright issues for, so then you can go
and get them for free from if you download, and we really will help
people. Of course you are coming to us, you can see everything we
have, but the sensitive material you may not be able to copy everything.
You must we must pay delete names if you're going to bring it with you.
I see now about copyright. That's one of the things I thought of
when I received your book and the mail and I was looking, you know,
through it. How difficult is it to find out first of all,
if an image has a copyright, and then how do you get around that
if you want to publish it. Yeah, it's difficult. You really have
to. I mean there is a many, many many comes to have the
fifty years span that you can. You can make available pictures that are more
than fifty years after the person who took it has passed away. When it
comes to magazine, it's much more easy. We can trace and we have
help with a guy in Britain who helps us to chase people all around the
world that keep keeps copyrights. But we must really be thorough in this so
we don't step over the line. If some people say that this picture you
cannot published with of course we don't do it right right. Yes, I
actually by by error once I had a Billy Meyer picture in one of my
blogs and I was contacted, you know, to take the image down,
you know, which is fine. I'll be glad to do that whenever I'm
contacted. No problem at all. But wow, interesting and getting back to
that. You know you talked about the we both were talking about the enormous
amount of money those pictures brought. Do you think that is going to set
a trend for people buying you know, UFL pictures or do you think that
was a one time thing because of the picture being on that poster. I'm
a little scared about this con set some sort of bottom line for how that
everything is really worth something. And of course your phones are not only for
your phologists. It's something that is in the public mind. After so many
sci fi movies and all documentaries and our X files and all that stuff.
People are ready to pay for it. They are I mean, we have
material worth millions, of course a few if we were going to sell it,
and I really hope that it's not the case that we must buy stuff
for loads of money. There is a course a risk. It is a
risk right right now. Getting back to what the research that you do over
there, can you talk about some of the case files that have happened maybe
since you last been on the show. Anything interesting? Yeah, I mean,
we have this case file from it's a British policeman, Alan Godfrey.
He was from He was working in todd Morden which is outside Manchester Auto Manchester
in nineteen eighty and his case file also contains his uniform. We do have
his uniform, his jacket that he may have had on his on himself when
he was abducted on this craft he met on November twenty eighth. He was
out looking for cows. It was the Hurdle cows that had been vanishing from
from from a farmer nearby, and he was out looking for them. But
early in the morning, it was I think he quartered to five or something
like that. He was traveling on this road outside todd more than when a
huge craft suddenly hanged in the air in front of his police car, so
he stopped. He didn't have any camera with him, so he stopped and
just looked at it. It was like whirling. It was moving very swiftly,
so leaves and branches were traveling around it like in a world storm.
And he started to write to draw the object. Instead, he took some
paper and started to draw it, and suddenly it was a flash of night
and he felt himself being driving the car on the other side of the object.
I mean the second before he was standing sitting in the car drawing,
and after that, suddenly he was driving again from the object and he turned
around. He turned a wavy vehicle around and the object was gone. But
he could see it was the pattern of a dry, dry area on the
way on the road because it had been raining. But why the object had
been seen. It was an area that was really dry. And after that
he had five different typnos sessions, and he told the same story in every
one of them, that he suddenly were taken out of the car on board
his ship meeting tall alien or whatever it was. He never said it was
an alien, and some other guys there as well, and after that he
didn't tell anymore. He couldn't go past that point. He stopped there every
time and his police jacket. We tell you a few and we have his
story this report. Wow, and that's a great one. And I do
remember clearly that you said the abduction thing is very very low in Sweden,
that you get it was very rare that you get any reports about that.
Is that about the same as it always was besides this story, yeah,
it is. It's very very uncommon. But that's said. Just a couple
of months ago. I met the guy who regularly every night or every second
night, and you can make of it whatever you want, travels to other
planets and it's a part of this huge collection of entities that are rolling the
universe. I mean, it sounds crazy, but the guy is not crazy.
I mean, you've got the proper job, and quite an important job
as well, and it's really really much like you and me when he tells
this. But his story is of course so strange that it's very very hard
or to believe. And I know several other people here in Sweden that tells
the same kind of stories that they traveled nighttime, two different planets and meat
identities and discuss things with them and sometimes then bring bring stuff back with them
as well. So yeah, what do you know. I mean, it's
very hard to investigate, but that kind of stories who can find here as
well? Yeah? Wow, wow, I'm actually surprised after our other conversations
because I remember you told me I think there was only a couple of cases
that you were aware of, and one of them was actually really interesting where
it was actually a police officer as well. His wife was lifted off the
bed or something in front of him. Oh oh, yeah it was.
It was not the police officer, but that's right, you're you're you're remembering,
right. Was in his bed and he was sleeping and his wife was
sleeping beside him, and I met with both of them in their in their
home, and his wife told me that she was always waking up as she
had fell asleep. She was sleeping very very sound, very deep, never
woke up. But this night she woke and it was a greenish light in
the bedroom. She was like hovering over the bed in the feetless position with
his with her face down to to the to the bed, and she saw
her husband sleeping and she was dragged out from the bed, and she was
scared, of course, so she tried to shout and wake up her husband,
but she couldn't shout, so she instead grabbed him by his arm.
And he tells me that he w feeling this grabbing of his arm, and
he sees his wife floating out from the bed towards three entities very much like
the ones you see on with Distriver's Communion cover, that were standing at the
end of the bed, and she was drawn to them, and he thought
what should I do? And he did one thing very strange, of course,
he tried to kick them. So when he did that, he tried
to kick them. Suddenly everything went dark and he heard the pounds like somebody
falling, and his wife, of course outside the bed at that time,
and she fell to the floor. And if you think that is strange,
what is happening next is much more strange to me, because she crawls up
into the bed and they were talking to each other, and she says what
do you think that was? And he says to I have no idea,
and they to sleep again. They fell asleep again, and that is that
is something I've heard on this show a lot of times people have this major
thing happened, major sighting and they go right to sleep. Yeah, which
doesn't seem like it makes any sense, but strength of the story really yeah,
yeah, it is. That is bizarre. Yeah, that's that's that's
really something. But um um. As far as the abductions go, and
or the experiencers and stuff like that, generally speaking, it's very low.
You get very few reports absolutely overall. Out of out of the two hundred
and fifty reports that you look into are as air a portion that are people
claiming that they were also abducted. No, not really, what about six
Yeah, entities, I mean they were very common in the nineteen seventies,
so I started as a jung uthologist. You could meet people that identities.
Nowadays you can do that, but that's very very very seldom. We don't
get that kind of report very often. Maybe once a year, maybe every
second year, something like that, I seem And as far as the reports
are, are they a similar type of objects that people are seeing, you
know, I mean, it seems like there's a lot of triangle UFOs,
A lot of people are talking about them. Is that is that common over
there as well? No, triangle observations are very very seldom as well.
Here we do get the few, and we have been able to identify and
identify many of them as aircraft. But there are some very strange triangular observations
of course here as well, but most of them, most of the pictures
we get, most of the observations, we get a nighttime specs of light
that really really does say nothing at all. It's they're not informative, I
should say. I mean, you would think that people with those mobile cameras
would take loads of very very good pictures now, but they don't. Yeah,
you don't have those fantastic ue for pictures anymore as you had in the
nineteen fifties, when well the contact is took pictures all the time. Why
do you suppose that is? I mean, everyone has a cell phone on
them almost Yeah, yeah, I mean here is weird and everyone got one.
I mean it's hard to find anyone who doesn't. I mean that tells
me that they really are. Phones are very very scarce again, and most
of the things you can see can be explained. It's hard to say that
because if you say that, people think you're a skeptical or something. But
I'm not a skeptical. I'm skeptical it comes to people's interpretations of what they
have seen, but I am open. It can be editing and everything,
and you must be both both ways. It's very important. So of course
there are pictures that are better, but still I'm still waiting for the really
good fourth Destian Suedom. Yes, yes, I'm opening up the phone lines.
If anyone would like to call in and ask our guests a question,
then that number is eight five five four seven two five four eight three.
It's up on the YouTube screen. You can see that now if you like
to call in, and yeah, it's it's really it's really quite amazing.
When when you think about as far as all the reports go, and how
would you I know you're very particular on how you would report a UFO.
Can you give advice to maybe a listener out there who may encounter in the
future out what they should do once they see one. The first thing you
should do is to take a picture, not because of the picture may be
of great quality, but because the camera gives us the time of the observation.
So whatever you see, if it's a spec of light far away,
take a picture. And after that we can of course check what was in
the air or in the sky at their time. And after that you should
try to record what you are seeing, maybe film it, maybe talk to
your telephone if you have one, or write it down as soon as possible.
And if you're in a familiar area, try to see in which direction
you saw this. Most people don't have a clue about north and south,
even though if they are lived in an area for many years, they often
mistake north and south or eastern west. So it's very very good to know
where you are, when it was, and what you thought you saw.
Those three things are the crucial questions you always ask as a researcher afterwards.
And I remember you talking about you and your wife actually witnessed something coming home
one night. So if someone is if it's like a multiple witness situation,
what would you explain to them that you do a little bit different than what
you just said. Yeah, what we did at the time was that we
were not talking to each other, we were separating each other into different rooms
in our house. Was in the middle of the night, sat down with
a form that you have Sweden uses enemy new phone and other groups have those
report forms as well, and we answered all the questions, we made the
drawings, and after that we compared notes and talked. So it's very important
when you're in a group not to let the group leader, because they're always
a leader in any group, affect you and tell you what you're seeing.
I've seen so many, so many us FOR reports with groups seeing things that
are getting really looking at. Everyone tells the same story eventually, and that
is not the case because people don't see or remember things the same way as
the other guy. I do. Yeah. I think the most important takeaway
that anybody can get from this is you do something right away as quick as
you can, and document it as much as you can. And if you
don't have a cell phone, look at your watch and the time is essential.
If we have a U FOR report and we don't know when it happened,
it can never be the solution, can never be a UFO. Afterwards,
that case can never be solved and we can never say that it was
a uf of sighting, even though it may have been a fantastic sighting.
That's the rules we have in the uf for Sweden. We need to have
exact time so we can check what kind of misserpentatious it could have been.
If we cannot check it, we cannot call it a UFO. There was
recently there was MOI I said, I don't know, two or three weeks
ago, there was a UFO video up on YouTube and look darn good.
Actually I don't I've never followed up on it in the last few weeks.
But you know, the person that posted the video said over a hundred witnesses
and blah blah blah, and then you know, showed this video. So
I wrote in the comments below, Okay, well where are those hundred witnesses
and where are the other films? You know? I mean, it's okay
for someone to say there's a hundred witnesses, but if that's all you got,
um, you know it's not it's not much of a leg to stand
on. You need more more documentation than just putting it under the video.
So to me, YouTube is entertainment. It's not really something you report your
foos through, but you entertain other people. I do believe that a lot
of people don't know what to do, and when they see something unusual they
put it on YouTube totally because they don't know what to do. I believe
that is true. But there is the entertainment aspect, and you know,
the amount of views that the hoaxers get is I almost dare say criminal in
a way. You know some of the cgi of things that are out there
that looks so good, you know, and it's it's just a shame because
it's very very hard today to tell really what this bona fide film or just
a hoax. Yeah, we have all experts in you for Sweden that are
quite skilled, but I mean it's very very hard to tell the hoax.
If you have filmed something real, I mean, if you've thrown something up
in the air which is a real thing and film that, I mean it's
real, it's very hard to tell what it could be. I mean it
comes down to into you in the witness, to meet in the witness on
the spot where this thing happened. And when we do that, many times
we get a solution there because most witnesses they don't follow through with our hopes
stories when we are there trying to really get them to explain that they can't
really get their story through at the time. Again, the phone lines are
open at state five five seven two five four eight three. Um, you
know, what do you think that you would consider the all out evidence that
someone could gather you know, I mean a crashed UFO. I mean,
uh, yeah, you know, I mean that would be It's a lot
of the reason why a lot of people won't take this seriously is because you
know, it's it's a fleet something fleeting, you know, and then we're
going to get to the point where we're not gonna be able to believe you
know, images or a video any longer. And what do you do then?
You know, I think we haven't really gone forward. We have been
going backwards because of the technique, the technicalities, and the problems with the
films and the hoaxing and what you can do with your film camera today.
So it comes down to that you must find something and the piece or something
really and from that see something completely new that we didn't know before. Because
witnesses are very very interested, interesting, but they don't prove anything else than
that we have something to investigate and that we know we do have some really
really interesting things to investigate. I mean I met with Tweedish fighter pilots who
have tried to chase those things in the sky. They've seen them on radar,
and of course we had their stories, but we don't have their radar
recordings. That is a problem, and we really need all those pieces to
get past UFOs just being very very strange stories to be something that science could
really get their hands on. Right. You mentioned earlier about t TSA and
there metemeteria or whatever it is they think that they have there, And I
know there was this situation with arts parts. I don't know if we ever
heard of those art Bell. I think Lynda Moulton how had something to do
with it as well as these parts are supposedly from a craft saucer and part
of the material ended up being a radiator foil. I don't know about the
rest of it. And if that's what TTSA has or they have more,
I don't really know, but well, radiator foil is not very strange.
Said yeah, I mean, but this was I think in the nineties when
art Bell got received these things. I'm not sure exactly when, but but
it's pretty pretty much you know, that's pretty much documented that's what part of
that stuff is. And it was all found in one area, so maybe
there's something else in there that that's good. Has anyone ever tried to give
your organization anything like that that they're saying had something to do with that,
you know, trace evidence or crash crash sauce or anything like that. Well,
we do have a couple of things at the few that are are strange
at least or strange looking, I should say. One of them are from
the late nineteen fifties. It was a couple of carpenters that were driving a
car outside Stockholm northeast or Stockholm when they saw this object coming down from the
sky and their car stalled and they were standing there looking at this obvious hanging
in front of them, and suddenly they objoqu went away and the car started.
But the guys went out to take a look at the spot where the
object had had been positioned, and they found this meth it's a tonguesten metal
and picked it up. It was all hot. It was the middle of
the night. It was very very hot, so it really showed that something
had heated it, and tonguesten is not keeping warmth. Very very long,
so it should have been called and that has been analyzed many many times in
the US and in Europe, and I also put it through analysis here in
Sweden, and it's showed to be a very mundane object. It was a
Tonguesten object. But it was made with the same problems which they had in
the nineteen fifties, so the impurities in the metal that were in the nineteen
fifties. So it was not alien any way, but it showed that something
had happened because the warmth of it showed that the object had had really been
there, something had been there and stopped the car. That's one of the
objects we have. We have another object from the nineteen fifties as well,
sorry, from the nineteen thirties as well, that fell from the sky from
an object that was seen in broad daylight. And that is not containing and
it's strange metal or anything else as well, but the story is very strange.
It's fell from this glowing globe of light that was picked up by the
by a farmer. But that that's the only two objects we do have to
tell you A few Wow, wow, that's amazing. I mean, you
see a lot of these UFOs that are dropping something you know, are dripping
or whatever. You know, that's really really is quite bizarre. Um.
Sorry color our costume and you didn't pick you up. Please do please do
try calling back. Yeah, I mean you hear about like how Charles Holt
you know, and Reynolds from Forrest said, you know, he went and
tried to figure out what he saw that was dripping off of, you know,
the object that he started bouncing through the trees, and they couldn't you
know, couldn't really find anything. So um. Anyway, our caller did
call back and we have Steve on the line from Las Vegas. Welcome to
the show, Steve, you got a question for our guests. Stevie there
says he's on air. Hello, Steve, you there. Hmm, I
don't hear him. Do you hear him? Klass, Nope, it's showing.
Everything looks good on this end. I'm not sure what's going on.
Okay, put him back on hold, and well, I don't know if
there's a problem with this system, I'll try it again, Steve, can
you hear us? Looks like I can see the see that he's talking,
but we are not hearing anything on this end. So it looks like we
might have an issue. Okay, I'll cry again. I'll cry. Oh
there you are, Steve. Yes, hi yes, oh hi? So
okay we got hello gentlemen. Yes, I have a question. M I
woke night, so I just kind of missed a little the show. I'm
not sure if you covered the topic on the subject on my question. But
my question to you, sir, is um, every day that's been happening
in the past few years, two years and you apology in the US.
Um started with the military offering new guidelines to pilots and opening it up a
little bit for the reports, and then comes, as you know, um,
the nimits in and everything that's been going on in the US ad cup
years. What do you go on that? I mean, why why you
think the government's opening it up and what do you think you apology is going
here in the US. Oh, thank you for the question, Stev.
It's a very interesting a couple of years, the last couple of years,
of course, because of what's happened in the United States and the films from
those US Navy pilots or of course shown all over the world. And I
think the most important thing coming out of this is that this topic is taken
more and more serious. I've watched so many US TV shows now and news
cost as well, that the anchors and all the people involved are taking this
serious now. So whatever comes from this, it's really done. Something good
from that. If you've ever got to know what the Nimits guys did see,
I'm not sure. I'm not sure that the Navy knows either. I
think there are as baffled as we are, really, and I hope that
we can get some more information out from the Navy. There their research.
I mean, they have done investigations into this that we have not seen yet,
and they have said that they will not show but hopefully someday they will
show that and they will know more about it. I thank you so much.
I'm one question. Do you think disclosure can happen in the US in
any way or around the world from another country or anyway? Yeah, it
means really, I think that disclosure has happened in many countries already, because
there are governments, I mean, there are at least military that have gone
on record saying that there are things that they don't know what it is.
But if you mean that they're going to tell that we are visited or we
know what those uf us are. I'm not sure because I don't show that
they know either. I think they are as a baffled as we are.
So I'm not waiting for any disclosure yet. Hopefully we will get to know
more from the governments. I think they know more than we. But the
answer to the question, all right, hey, Steve, thanks for the
call. Oh, thank you. Thank you gentlemen very much, and thank
you for both of your hard work in your ability. We appreciate it.
He thank you lot. As far as the limits in that whole case that
is that is baffling, I think that's probably or could be the one of
the biggest cases. You know, it definitely has been for many many years
one of the bigger cases, because of the witnesses, the quality of the
witnesses, the military involved and all that, and then the Navy actually changing
a few policies leased around that. And there's one very interesting thing within the
Nimist observations that during those days of those observations, several witnesses were telling about
those objects coming down very fast from very high twenty thirty thou feet or something
like more, and coming down to the sea and maybe going up again very
fast. And I've seen the same here in Sweden when I enjoy a pilot
too. In nineteen seventy seven, chased one of those objects out in the
Baltic area, because he told me that he when he approached the object suddenly
started to climb and he was trying to get closer to it, but he
was outflown by it and the object vanished suddenly around well I think it was
at least forty thousand meters or something like that. He couldn't see it anymore
on his radar screen. It was traveling right out into space. As he
told me, the same thing you saw in the Nimits stories. Really,
the objects moving like that, like dropping and going up very very fast.
Do we have as far as you know, I mean, I don't know
what government or all governments have any type of scanning. You know, satellites
up you know, high high in the altitude where you know, if objects
were coming in from say, um, you know, out in the Solar
system somewhere, that we'd actually be able to detect them. It seems like
they would. We would have that capability. And if there are also satellites
up there that can see ball eyes coming in from outer space and going into
the atmosphere, I mean large meteors that we we know that and things start
that are published from time to time, and the most many of the US
spy satellites can see things like that as well, So they could probably see
other objects as well if they are coming in from outside the atmosphere and going
into into Earth. Yeah. I mean, I'm just wondering if there was
any thing like that happening during the NMITS encounters, if there was any type
of documentation, you know, because it would seem like the Navy would have
access to that if they were really investigating. Well, I think most of
the American spy satellites are not over the US territory. I mean they are
looking for something else. No, that's true. So yeah, so the
best pictures are probably not there. They are over the North Korea Iran or
whatever. Right, Yeah, I get that, You're probably right. And
as far as the Nimits case in particular, I know, there was this
um, this guy that was, you know, claiming to be in the
Air Force intelligence and saying that the Air Force was actually trying to see what
the Navy would come up with. Their um, you know, a secret
craft that drones or whatever was they're flying. I don't know if you've followed
any of that. I didn't buy it. I don't know how what has
happened in the last few weeks as far as that whole thing goes. But
have you heard anything about that? He was claiming the Air Force these I
heard about it, but I'm a little skeptical about that as well as you
are. But I think it's interesting that US Air Force has not came up
with new roles. Just the US Navy. They have been quite exactly.
They're doing something else something I don't know why, because US Air Force should
say something in this as well, you would think at least. Yeah,
I mean they're the protectors of our skies here. Yeah, yeah, absolutely
so, I mean the two different identities of your army that give quite mixed
positions. Yeah, yeah, A lot of that doesn't make any sense.
And like I said in the beginning, it's almost as baffling as the UFO
topic, you know, in general. Yeah, but but it does seem
it does seem promising to me anyway. Yeah, to be as well,
absolutely, Yeah, and as far as um when you do a talk and
a lecture and you have you know, people ask questions at the end.
I'm sure that's probably what happens there. I would assume, m what do
you say when someone says, well, are they aliens or something like that?
What do you say? What do you how do you answer that?
I'm telling them that we don't know that. I mean, we have so
many reports of entities. Other entities as well. Should look through the history.
We've got so many folklore entities that were taking for granted, just maybe
hundred and fifty years back or a hundred years. A hundred years back,
they are more they were more reported than today's aliens. I don't really see
any any distinction between the folklore entities and the aliens. I think we could
have they could have the same answer at the end. It could be something
to deal with with ourselves. It could be some physical part of it as
well. I mean, I get today reports of gnomes here in Sweden and
alves. Really yeah, and so they actually call contact your organization for something
like that. I mean, I've written so many books, and people read
my books and they know I'm interested in all of this, so they write
to me. And so I got many many stories about the meetings with entities
of different kinds. I mean, I went to church here in Sweden and
where people met Virgin Mary and they had seen her for a couple of days.
So I went there. It was a Jude's mass, two thousand people
attending, and suddenly people started to see Virgin Mary outside the window and they
were taking pictures and everyone were leaning out trying to see her. And I
was there. I didn't see anything, but afterwards people were telling me what
they have seen, and they really had seen something that they thought were a
real person to Virgin So well, it's hard to tell that people are telling
your stories what really happened. Wow. Interesting, it looks like we have
a color from your neck of the woods. Patrick Johnson from Sweden, Welcome
to the show. Patrick, Thank you, thank you very much. Hello
clous one, a member of your group. You to Sweden? Yes,
can you hear me? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, hey thanks for
calling um. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you. I was
for about one year ago. I was I was going outside of khans and
Sweden, south of Sweden, and yeah, I was going out late at
the night, absolutely and I remember I was sending this info to Youth for
Sweden, too close one and it was ii S, you know, the
International Space Station. I could see that, uh when they're investigating. Yeah,
maybe you remember it, because I don't know. I do remember that,
yeah you do. Yeah. But but the thing I thought was so
so amazing it was when it was disappeared, something came back and then I
just saw something a light going back. When the iis was landishing from the
sky, something came back and then it's just puff right up in the sky
in the in an amazing speed, which followed the same tectory, follow the
same tractory back yet yeah, h yes, exactly exactly just like behind it
actually saw was the left a little bit. And it was so amazing.
When I I did did call, it was late at the night and I
did call my brother and woke him up and just I saw I saw us
fault because you say us fault, because I couldn't say it was a flying
saucer. I couldn't say that because it was an aden so flying object and
it was amazing and and I I know both kinds of strange things because since
two thousand and one, I have driven a site called the Smoke webbon or
called ghost webbing English and investigating no when the activities. So I have captured
things, um since two thousand and one, and and I have things captured
individuals. So I know I saw this and it was amazing. What you're
telling me is very interesting. I mean it's very hard to tell, of
course what it could have been. But I mean I understand that you're really
remember this because it was so strange. Yeah, thank you, thank you
for telling me the story. I appreciate it. I have to tell a
story. I actually I thought I was seeing them International Space Station to one
night I was out several years ago. I lived on a golf course and
I was out on the golf course at night and I was looking up.
I was walking the dog and I was looking up and I saw I said,
that has to be the International Space Station. It's so big, and
you know the lights. It was bright. It was very bright, but
uh, but all of a sudden it moved sideways. And then I said,
no, I can't have another UFO sighting. No one will take me
seriously. So I don't know what it was. It might have been atmospheric
or something, but anyway, that was that was interesting. I don't really
know what it was, but yeah, it's very hard to tell about the
lights in the sky. It could be uh yeah it Patrick, thank you,
thank you for your yeah, thank thank you very much and have a
nice thing. Yeah and Patrick, yeah yeah, yeah, thank you.
M It's time for you go to bed. It's two o'clock in the morning.
They all right, thank you, all right, thank you, thank
you, bye bye. All right. We have about seven minutes or so
left. Um, so if anyone wants to give a ring, uh,
you can do so. Otherwise I'm taking down the number for pretty soon here.
Um. So what's next on the on your agenda? You say you
write a book a year, must have something planned. I'm writing a book
about things that fold from the sky right now. It would be published in
September, so, I mean it could be anything. It could be meteorites,
could be a frogs fish, could be a radiation from the sun,
thinks that affect human beings and the earth that falls from the sky at fourteen
stuff, and I think it could be very interesting read. That's my main
topic right now. But also UFO Sweden is fifty years in April, which
we will have a three day conference and exhibition with Chris Allbeck with the big
guy who knows everything about UFOs before in nineteen forty seven, he will be
giving a talk, and also Dave Clark, who was the British professor who
saved the files from destruction when it comes to the British defense uf files.
So both of them will be here in Sweden giving talks and we will open
a fu for everyone to visit as well. So that is also a very
big thing for us. And go into Britain again to save some more stuff
in April. What type of storage space do you have there? You must
have a lot, you know. We have Bob Ricard with the publisher what's
the publisher of fourteen Times. We live in his house in the north or
London and his basement is the storage place for everything bring there and after that
we send it by a lorry to Sweden. So I see that's just the
plan this time again. Wow? Well interesting And and so if if someone
actually had something they wanted to donate to you, um, they could reach
out to you basically, um, And what do you tell them as far
as you know how these things are cared for. We are very very h
skilled. We're taking care of material that people sends to us. We have
done this since nineteen seventy three and we are we are very very you can
say we don't throw anything away. Everything is saved and if something is broken,
we mend it. So if anyone wants to get in contact with AF
you have all the contact on AF dot s. And we also need,
of course donations informal money to keep us running to help you out there,
to get information from us. That is the most important thing. Right now,
we're looking for a new locality to move to so we can have one
roof over everything we have instead of fourteen different localities. And if we can
do that, we would have a museum there as well and be more efficient
in scanning and more efficient in helping people. Yeah, when you scan,
I mean scanning, it just takes so long, doesn't it so much time?
It does. At one point we had several people doing the scannings.
Right now we only have one. I would actually take too because one of
our board members it is doing a huge scanning project at this house as well.
But two people are good, but it should be ton people. Because
we have scan maybe three percent of everything we have. We have millions of
things that we want to scan, but we haven't had time to do Wow,
millions of things. See, yeah, I can believe that. Well
excellent. Well, so we are right at the end of our show,
and I want to thank you so much class as as always, it's always
a lot of fun to speak with you, and I know you stayed up
really late and I wanted to let you know I really do appreciate that.
Oh, it's not a problem. I'm glad to be on your show and
it's pure really. Yeah, you're one of the people I consider a friend
that i've you know, have met through this crazy topic. Absolutely the very
saying to you about it. Yes, all right, you take care,
take care as well. All right, look with your show. All right,
thanks a lot, Okay, good night, all right everyone, So
that is it for our show this evening. Next week we have Chris O'Brien
is going to be back with us, so that should he's always a character.
It should be a lot of fun, So tune in next week for
that. And again I want to thank everyone that helps out with the show.
And remember anyone can support the show. Go over to podcast ufo dot
com. All that informations there and our t shirts are for sale also,
so T shirts and all types of things with the nice graphic that Diane Cash
made for us with the podcast UFO logo on it. So anyway, check
that out and again we'll be back next week and remember to keep your eyes
to the sky.