What is krack lackin Hardwoodknox listeners, I am Damp Valley coming at you without
my fantabulous co host Adam frommel I am, however, super pleased to be
joined by a Hardwood Knox favorite, Tara Bowen Biggs. Follow her on Twitter
at t C b b i ggs. She is the co host of the
We Have a Take podcast and Step Back Sisters podcast. We Have a Take
can be found on Twitter at We Have a Take spelled exactly as it sounds,
and step Back Sisters is at step Back Sisters again spelled exactly as it
sounds. As anyone who listens to this podcast before knows, we are gonna
pick Tara's brain to no end about the Portland Trailblazer. She does a fantastic
job covering and talking about them first and foremost, though most importantly obviously,
how are you doing, Tara? I am so happy to hear your boys.
I get so delighted every time you asked me to come on the Pipe
voice. Well, your your Twitter printing in the in the message notifications.
When you DM me and ask me if I can come on, That's when
I start to get very happy because I'm like, yay, I didn't do
so bad the last time. He's gonna have me on again, And I
just I just look forward to talking to you so much. I am just
pleased to get to have a conversation. But you get to your question,
how am I? Well, like three weeks ago, I was thinking,
let's see, how would a three guard lineup of Damian Lillard, Norman Powell
and Ben Simmons look, And what would Mike D'Antoni, how would he make
that work? And now here we are three weeks later in a very different
world. Uh, you know, people are choosing to give up their season
tickets, Friendships are being torn asunder. We're all on pins and needles,
worried out the star who has, like you know, been such a force
in our community. It's it's it's messy. It's really messy right now.
And in the Portland Trailblazer fan base in Rip City, I mean the fans,
it's the fans are not the ones who are ms. It's uh just
everything feels like it's kind of falling apart, and like spectacularly fast quickly for
a team that's been probably like a billboard for stability over the past. Like
I mean, Neil o'sha has been trolled a bunch before, but this team
has not been. Look, the Damian Lillard stuff is one new, Like
that's the He's just been this beacon of I want to be here, And
now that stuff rolls out amid the Chauncey Billups stuffs, which he's embroiled in
to at least some extent, it's very confusing. And so the first question
I want to ask you is just what are your thoughts on the the Billups
higher? Like how that make you feel? Is it? Just? Is
there anything they even could have done to have spun this higher? Because the
press conference was a joe, The Becky Hammond tokenism was a disgusting and the
press conference was cowardly too, Like that was just I'm but I'm even just
like, is there, aside from not hiring Chauncey Billups, is there anything
they could have done to have delivered this news better? But more importantly,
I just want to know how it made you, as a Blazers fan,
someone who's talking and covering this team feel. I mean, you just said
it right there. All they had to do was not hire him, Like
all of this could have been all of this could have been avoided if they
had just chosen someone else. And so, like, I guess to back
up a little bit, you know, I was talking about how we felt
like a few weeks ago at the end of the season, when the Blazers
just like kind of had a poor playoffs and it was just over. It
was kind of a relief because the team has just been hanging on, hanging
on, hanging on. And so I was like, wait, at least
we know, at least we know now that this was not the team,
that things are going to have to change. And then Stoss was fired and
then Neil Olsha says, well, it wasn't the roster, and I was
like, wait, hold on a minute, WHOA. So we knew we
were going to get a new coach, and to be honest, I was
initially very excited about johnsy Billips. I didn't know about his past, and
I was like, sweet, John Zy Billips would be like a great coach,
like all these like like every like a lot of people who didn't know,
you know, we've seen his trajectory, we've seen him as a player,
all of his experienced his relationships on you know, ESPN, and so
initially I was like, okay, Cool, Like Chauncy Billips will have a
chance to like, you know, have his first head coaching gig in Portland.
Cool. And then I learned about the allegations where I learned about the
incident, and you know, Damian Lillard's out there putting his name behind Chauncy
and Jason Kidd, and I was very surprised a Jason Kidd because I knew
about his past, I didn't know about Chauncy's. And so I was like
when Jason Kidd dropped out of the race, it was like I was like
okay. And then I learned about Chauncy. And even then, because I
you know, I've I've lived a very privileged, very insulated life and I've
been extremely lucky, and I just don't know that much about like all of
the nuances of you know, of assault and violence and all of these things
that have been coming up lately. So even then I was like, well,
you know, maybe Chauncy, like you know, everything I knew about
him before, maybe he's you know, uh turned his life around and he's
done all these good things, and you know, I can you know,
maybe I can figure that out if he ends up getting the position, and
then I read the article of an article on Blazer's Edge. There were two
articles, one by Dave Deckard and one that was like the voice of five
women from the fan base who shared their thoughts as survivors of violence. And
I was just like, you know what the point of it was that you
know, he he could you know, have done all kinds of really positive
things for the community. He could have you know, turned his life,
and he could have, you know, done all these things. But to
someone who's experienced, you know, violence and assault. When somebody who has
been associated with that is the lead spokesperson for the franchise and it is out
in front of the franchise every single day, every single game talking, you
know the amount of trauma that that brings up. And I didn't. I
didn't understand it. I've never had it explained to me from that point of
view. So I thought, Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Simple, just choose a different candidate. There's all kinds of candidates out there,
There's all kinds of people who are ready to have their first chance or
another chance at being the head coach. Not that hard. So I was
I was really shocked when they like doubled down on that, and then when
they paraded out Becky Hammond, I was so embarrassed because I was like,
it was like I want her to succeed so badly, but it just was
so inelegantly done, and it just it didn't ever look like they were serious.
It just looked like, oh no, we got to like throw a
woman out there, and it was just like come on, y'all, come
on, like we can see what you're doing. And it was just it
was just so distressing. And then and then the press conference happened, and
like, you know, shout out to like the reporters who tried to ask
the questions, Like the reporters have been working really hard trying to like get
to the bottom of this and trying to get people to be able to you
know, giving them a chance. And when you know you've talked it on
your podcast before, when you know, Jason Quake asked if you know what
he had learned and how it had changed his life, and he was cut
off and everybody saw that he was ready to talk. Is just like,
I don't understand how they keep doubling down and I don't understand how they keep
making it worse and like the you know, the other bad thing, and
I think you mentioned this too, was when they broke the news that he
was going to be hired on a Friday afternoon or a Friday and then just
like took off for the weekend. And like Damian Lillard is the only person
out there, like I don't, I don't think people really blame Damian Lillard
for this. I think people. I think people. I know that I
agree that maybe it was a little inelegant the way that he went about,
you know, some of this stuff. Like I wish I wish that somebody
like two weeks ago would have hired like a really high powered PR firm that
specializes in cleaning things up, and that that that firm had talked to both,
you know, all of the parties involved and come up with a solution
to move forward together. And you know what that would have cost, Like
one year of a stretched Anderson bears out contract. Right. It would have
just like just like fix it and come out of it going, you know
what, let's not let's hire somebody else. Let's let's do that. So
anyway, I don't even remember what that question was. I just kind of
like spilled my whole guts right there, well, which is and everything was
just necessary to say. And I don't want to and I said mentioned this
when we covered it, because the stuff started like this first started leaking out,
like we were in the middle of a live podcast when the Damian Lillard
Chris Haynes latest report came. It's like we gave our thoughts then, and
I don't want to add to like the you know mail call Cassidy, that's
just leaving his comments here. I agree with everything you said, and I
will say, like for me, people are going to point out that Phillips
was he was accused of rape, never convicted, and it was settled outside
of you know it was it was a civil matter. It wasn't a criminal
matter. Rape convictions are like so hard, like district attorneys or like they
need like a mountain of evidence. Those things can take years, and that
can be a stress on the victim, or I would imagine definitely is a
stress on the victim. They're probably lawyers of rape victims who have actually just
suggested to go to the civil trial because it will be less stressful in the
long term. Now, if if you want to point out that Billips was
never convicted whatever. For me, it's not about Billips. It's about the
message that choosing him sent. And I am I believe in redemption. I
believe in second chances. But I don't know if Billips has atoned for this,
or if there was evidence that showed that he didn't do anything. You
needed to be prepared to bring that, you know, non proprietary evidence like
that was just bat shit crazy, and so it was so insulting. It
was so insulting to think that we'd be like, oh, okay, oh
I understand, you can't really tell us, we've trusted you all along,
Neil, We're gonna just keep trusting you. Oh listen. Trust without the
window after twenty sixteen free agency with Neil o'shay so. But you needed to
be prepared to provide something to reinforce this notion that hey, it's okay that
we hire him. And again, if you want to say, well,
why should Chauncy Bills be held back? If he is innocent, Chauncy Billips
hasn't been held back. There was He could have had an executive job in
Cleveland at one point. I think he's been involved in other coaching searches.
He worked for ESPN, the mother Ship. He was assistant with the Clippers
like this has not impacted Chauncey Billips's career trajectory. He continued to play in
the NBA for over a decade after that. And the rape allegations are from
nineteen ninety seven, and you also can't dismiss the allegations that easily when just
because they were settled in civil court, there was a rape kit done that
showed bruising, that showed seaman. There's the details are out there. It
was I saw it in John Hollinger's report, Spinster's podcast, another Buyer podcast.
I thought that a very good job of covering this. The Blazer's Edge
article had it in there so like. But for me, it's not about
presuming Chauncey Billips is guilty. It's about the message it's sent to. As
you mentioned domestic violence survivors, sexual assault survivors, that you didn't even consider
them enough to come to this press conference and explain why it was okay or
why you felt comfortable hiring Chauncy Belts. That was the bare minimum you could
do, and really quickly you meant the Becky having stuff is infuriating it's I
don't want to have to think this way. I didn't want her. I
wanted her to get another job that wasn't the Blazer's job, because we're going
to talk about this. The Blazers seems I can't remember who termed this,
like there's some Steven Silas potential there where everything blows up. He took that
Rockets job with James Harden and Russell Westbrook on the roster. Look where he's
at now, And I want I want the first female head coach in the
NBA. I shouldn't have to think like this, but to be in a
position where they are actually given the time and the resources to succeed. I
don't know if it like it clearly wasn't the Blazer's organization because the way they
went about the hire. But the tokenism is she's gonna have to continue to
go through this before she gets her her first gig, which is annoying.
But then to like paraded around the press conference after you did it, through
the news with the that a girl like at a girl like that is so
condescending, absolutely gross, And so that's where I ended up on it.
The Billips stuff is I think more complex there but it's to me, it
wasn't like you don't have to make this about oh, Billips was found.
It wasn't even found innocent, like it was settled. It was you don't
have to bring up oh, he was never criminally charged. This isn't about
Billips. It's about the message it sends toward a big portion of your fan
base that is probably feeling alienated and has to bring up trauma, like you
mentioned, seeing this person who hasn't had to, and this might be this
is more so the Blazer's fault than Billips is he seemed prepared to speak,
like you said the press conference, but to have to see this person come
up speak every night, be elevated to this high profile position because he has
more gravitas than Mikey Antoni or Becky Hammond, whatever the fuck that that was
so gross. That is so gross when he talked about that. So like
that's the problem here. And the other thing is if women, if sexual
assault victims, if domestic violence victims are saying they feel a certain kind of
way about this higher, then it fucking matters and fucking listen. And so
that's that is all independent of the actual Chauncy Billip's case, and it's still
mine melting to me that people can't wrap their head around. I think a
lot of people have, but that stuff just bends my brain still. All
they had to do, all they had to do is not hire him.
All they had to do was to choose a different candidate. But you know
what they did. They gave him five years. They gave him five It's
not only just like, oh no, we're gonna hire him, but he's
gonna be here for five years. And that was just like such a screw
you. It was just like so like it was and then the press conference
is just like the the icing on that cake. If you were going to
hire him, then you needed to provide answers to the question that you refused
to and then they at like he can't handle it either, you know.
That's the other thing. It was just like you're really getting him off to
a great start by like not trusting him, Like we're supposed to trust you,
but you won't even trust him to ans And you're also clearly not on
the same page because he went to answer, you sent some weird ass signal
with your water bottle flex whatever that was in your eyes, Like the least
subtle thing in the world. So thank you for sharing your thoughts and I
don't know if you have anything to add on it, but it's it's a
they. It could not have been more poorly handled. I guess the other
question I had is people have also said that this is selective outrage because Billips
has held other positions. Luke Walton is in the NBA, Jason Kidd got
hired by the MAVs. The one thing I'll say about the MAVs is hiring
Jason Kidd, who was charged for how the domestic abuse charge in two thousand
and one was the year. I wanted to double check that that's just so
on brand for the MAVs that people probably thought like given out their history whatever.
He also has to have his press conference yet, which is a really
long time to not have a coaching press conference. I assume there will be
more. I was curious what you thought about that type of stance, where
this is, why aren't we talking more about Luke Walton. Then my argument
would be delay the framework. There's gonna come up point where this is,
you know, this is sad. We're probably not talking about Chauncey Billips like
this either these things sort of just fade to the background because it doesn't clearly,
it doesn't do anything because the Blazers, clearly or Neil O'Shea whoever,
like however many decision makers were involved, clearly felt empowered enough to do everything
they did. This is a body of shit show work. Like it's not
just the billops higher But it's like you mentioned with Becky Hammond. But I'm
just curious how you feel when people say, well, why wasn't there the
sas rage when Billips was here? Or why aren't we talking more about Luke
Walton, or why aren't we talking more about Jason Kidd, though I would
argue we have probably talked the bunch about Jason Kidd. I mean, I
think it's just it's like it's indicative of, you know, a world where
there's plenty of people out there, like even like me and myself included,
who didn't who don't know how to talk about this stuff, who haven't understood
the you know, the gravity of it, that like the widespread and it's
like we're wrestling with a lot of things right now. And you know,
I always felt bad for my friends in Sacramento because, like Luke Walton's not
going anywhere because they're not gonna pay They're not gonna like fire him and pay
somebody else while they're paying him, you know. And so I'm just looking
at like that's gonna be our you know, situation for five years, and
you know it's I guess it's time for maybe the league to decide, you
know what they can. Oh, I wasn't going to bring this up,
but maybe I will. So, Like this is two thousand, it's not
that spicy, But in two thousand and three, the Blazers made this whole
song and dance about how they were gonna they were they made a pledge.
This is in two thousand and three, so you know what time this was
around. This is around a time that things were also not going well and
the Blazers and I don't call it by the name that a lot of people
call it, because I think that's gross. But the Blazers came out with
this pledge to the fans and it was all about how they were going to
only have players of character, and they were going to only have players who
were active in the community. They were going to only have players that they
were going to hold up to it to a certain thing. So I went
up and I looked it up on the internet archive to find out, like,
Okay, what did they say about like the character that you know,
it was supposed to represent Ripsody? So first of all, I started reading
it and I was like, this is so gross because it was only the
players that they were holding accountable. So what's the code for that, right?
You know, it's like we want our players to be respect vote to
bowl, and we want our players to like, uh, echo our you
know, our values, and didn't say anything about like the coach, because
I was like, what did they say about the coach? You know?
So I don't know, I just I think it's a it's a sadly these
reckonings are going to keep happening. But I guess if he had to have
the silver lining, which is like gross, but like if more people learn
and understand every time and more people speak out against it, the more it
happens. Like maybe someday there'll be a franchise who gets this kind of path,
you know, pushed back from their really loyal fans, and and they
go, you know what, maybe let's not make this higher. Maybe let's
choose somebody else, like I don't know, I don't know, I don't
know. It's mind going to bungle that actual decision you're talking about. All
I had to do was hire someone else, but then to bungle the bungling
with the press covers that they have is Yeah, did you see that they
hired for who they signed on to their summer league team, Michael Beasley.
Hey, that's the help that they need this organizations. It's really going to
win the fans. Back to the question points that I just asked you,
not that we did talk about it, and I'm not saying you're glossing over
it, but now I'm about to ask you about actual basketball. Like that's
how like there's no natural segue to this. It's just I'm gonna ask you
about actual basketball because there's an off season happening in mid all this. And
let's start with Dame to recap it for our listeners. Like he first came
out, said he on a Jason Kidd, Jason Kidd removes his name from
the running, which, to be rejected by Jason Kidd is like pretty that's
pretty terrible, terrible look. Jason kiddnew he had to know the Maverick job
is gonna be open. That's my stance there, but that's unrelated. He
also was in support of Billups, and Chris Haynes said in that report Damian
Lillard plans to be heavily involved in the coaching search. Brian Wynhorse reported that
Damian Lillard was on the Zoom Call interviews, some of the Zoom Call interviews.
As far as I know, that's very irregular. The hire is not
on Dame, but he kind of tried to distance himself from it after.
I guess he thought fans were attacking him, but I saw a lot of
fans defending him. And the organization is responsible for the higher and they could
have done a better job of protecting Dame from all of this, so that's
on them too. I don't blame Dame for that. Not a batter moment
for him, though, the way we came out on Twitter. Tried to
distance himself from it. And then there's the report from Chris Haynes, which,
as you know, if Chris Haynes is saying something about Damian Lillard,
it came from Damian Lillard himself or like the closest person to Damian Lillard that
this could force him to reconsider be part of the reason for him to reconsider
his future with the Blazers, because he also wasn't have faith in them to
contend the latter point after watching Neil shaken duct business this past summer. I
wouldn't, you know, can't blame him. I'm just curious as to what
you make of the Dame situation at large right now. So I am not
as worried about Dame actually leaving the organization because I know how invested he is,
and I know historically how invested he's been in every community that he's been
involved with, you know, whether it was like his high school community,
his AAU team, his family. He's always extremely he's extremely loyal. There
was like like one point in high school where he did go to a different
school for another year, and like he went right back to his his his
other school, you know. So like I believe that Dame means it when
he says that he wants to be here, But I've also believed all along
that if he does leave, it's because somehow we screwed up. We I
don't know if that means we the fan base or if it means we the
organization. Right now, it kind of looks like the organization. But I
think the most telling thing is that with this, really this is like one
of the most important things that is hired that has happened during Dame's whole tenure
year is hiring a new head coach and the fact that the two camps could
not be aligned like the when I'm when, I mean like the organization and
ownership and Damian Lillard have two completely different stories coming out. I think that's
the worst thing to me, and that signals to me that Dame no longer
trusts the organization. I don't think it's so much about fans. I think
he probably was mad. I think he probably like tried to you know,
he was trying to figure out what to do, like because you know,
it's not a great look for him, and he's used to always looking really
good, but like, you know, he didn't look great, and so
he you know, lashes out a little bit. But I think the majority
of the fan base that I know and that I see don't blame Dame for
it, and also don't blame Dame for saying, like, look, if
you can't get a better team around me, you know, I'm not gonna
stick around and like Niel Shay saying that you know it wasn't the roster,
it was the coach. Like, does that mean we're gonna go into the
season with the same roster that we watched over and over as Chauncey Billip's gonna
change things that much? I have no idea, you know why, because
Chaunceyvillips doesn't have a head coaching body of work, but he has gravitas.
Has gravitas, Yeah, he sure does. And I guess you kind of
already answered this, and I'm I'm not going to go into fake Dame trades,
mostly because I agree with you that it'd be a shock if it at
some point. Yes, I think it's an issue, but he has three
three years posted a player option left on his deal. I would just be
shocked if anything happened this season. But would your opinion change of him if
something did happen this season where that's a lot of time left on his deal
that he signed to all of a sudden change course. And the fall up
to that is if Dame, if they were to trade Dame, would you
want them to actually start over or would you be favoring a type of well,
let's get good players so that we can remain competitive, because for me,
zooming out, I think people who covertly at large or just aren't importantly
aren't covering this team day to day. We're gonna say, no, you
need to start over, you bottom out, pick picks, pix pix pix,
YadA, YadA, YadA. But it's just so much more complicated than
that it is. And right now people are so mad at the front office
that I think they just I don't think they don't. I personally don't care
which direction they go. I just want them to get a front office that
is different, that has like more respect for the fans, and so like
if they got in a new front office and that front office laid out the
vision and explained it to us and didn't say just trust us, then I
would be, you know, fine with whichever I mean. Like, just
like the recent weeks. It reminds me of like one of my favorite quotes,
which is from Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, who said things can change in
a moment, and something could happen to Damien. Something could like so when
he says I want to be a lifetime Plazer or whatever, like I totally
believe him, But I also know things can change in a moment, and
we've just been through a moment, and I think we'll be able to get
through it. But like, that doesn't mean it won't happen again, and
it doesn't mean that it's not you know, it doesn't mean that he you
know, could end up deciding to leave. I just hope that if he
does decide to leave, he does it in a way that like he's not
just like leaving the whole place in flames. You know that he at least
has a fond memories long enough, you fond enough memories of all of us
who like didn't have anything to do with this, to try to at least
help us get set up in a way that we can move forward without having
to completely bought him out. And I think I agree with you. The
only way I think it would change my perception of Dame is if this was
like if he was actually using the fan base is like a shield for this,
Like that would be where it'd be like, okay, no, like
it's not that's not on a fan base the organization now though, and I
might have viewed him differently, and Terry stocks still be in the head coach.
Let's say they don't make a coaching change and it's this year that something
happens with him, and I'm only looking at this year down the line,
I actually get it. I might have viewed him differently based on like I'd
rather I'd rather lose here than win anywhere else type deal. But now the
organization has given him a built out, built an excuse to get at you
GTFO whenever he wants because of how poorly all this was handled and how they
failed to protect him. So I'm with you on everything there, but I
ultimately don't think it becomes an issue, which is why are you ready to
move on to like the stuff that I think actually matters? Yes, let's
talk about basketball. Fuck is up with Nicole and nurkish? Use of Nurkish?
Sorry, I can't believe I'm cursing so much, But like talk.
You know that moment that postgame presser where he was like, I don't I
don't even know if I'm gonna be here, that's up to my agent.
And look, I'll say, if I were an NBA player making twelve million
a year, I'm not gonna care what Like I'm not looking at oh my
contract non guaranteed. It's not up to me. I'm just I'm taking that
money. So maybe he didn't know that, but those were very bizarre words,
and just the general consensus is that he thinks he needs a bigger role.
I'm just and that's somehow you know, that had its own moment,
but then everything else that happened kind of very dad So like WTF. There's
the PG version WTF with oh yusef okay. So you know what, if
he could stay in the game and stay on the floor and make the layup,
I'd have a lot more empathy for him, you know. He it's
been a roller He's I mean, he's just a huge personality. And if
you're if Nurkis is on your team, it's a roller coaster because they go
as use of Nurkic goes, you have like the steady conductor of the train,
Damian Lord. But really it's like use of nurkicch is Like if he
is there and dialed in and wants to win more than anything, there's like
little that can stop him. But if he's just performing and he can't stay
on the court because he's in voul trouble, if he is he's seven feet
tall. Okay, I did a little bit of research before this because I
was just like, I feel like, I feel like he should be scoring
more. And I know it's not scoring isn't everything, but he's seven feet
tall, and I feel like half of the season I was sitting there going,
oh my god, like how did you miss that layup? Or like
why didn't you just dunk it? It was right there? Why did you
do that little flip shot up there? So in the restricted area he shoots
fifty seven percent, which to me for somebody who's seven feet tall and weighs
a lot and can like really move guys around with his strength, it just
feels like it should be better than that. And to then say I want
a bigger role, I'm like, what bigger role do you want to do?
Like stay on the court? I don't get it. In val trouble,
like does he want to shoot more threes? Does he? Like?
I'm really curious to see to think about all the ways that he thinks that
he's being held back because on nights where he decided to take over and put
the team on his back, because there were a couple especially leading right up
to that terrible injury that he like, that was when I finally got on
board use of Nurkics was like a month before he had that broken leg,
which was so so sad because there were nights where you could tell that he
decided to put the team on his back and do the work and it was
a thing of beauty and that just didn't happen. It just I just kept
waiting for that to happen again, and it was like, no, it's
like one handed rebounds, you know, it's like one handed passes is not
taking care of the ball, and it's just like, come on, nobuddy,
what are you doing? Like and then there's a fact that he's with
clutch and clutched already, you know, traded Gary away, which you know,
I'm happy with Norman Powell, but like I just I feel like they're
whispering. I feel like when he was saying some of the things that he
was saying in the press conference, somebody was has been telling him like,
you're not you don't have a big enough role there. You could have a
big enough role, You could have a bigger role, And I just don't
know how much of it was him like just saying what he felt like he
needed to say in the moment, and how much of it is just like
what he realized things. I don't know. It's a mess so much as
a mess. Just can't believe what happened. My response was the same.
I was, like, your bigger role is playing in more than forty one
games over the course of the past two seasons. That's yours, And look,
I was I didn't really like Nurkic, seems I still remember him like
pouting in Denver those days, and you mentioned the stuff of four's injury,
during his injury, him cheering on like the team from the sidelines, like
he became infinitely more likable during that stretch. And then he comes out and
says this, and look, players are put on the spot and it's heat,
like heat of the moment. So I get that there could have been
a misstep there, but it was just it came so far out of left
field that I have to think, like that's something he's been like stewing on
for quite some time. And you're you know, you mentioned like, just
for context, he shot fifty seven percent at the rim, which is in
a ten percent tile for centers or Biggs perfects. That's not good and what's
also weird is that he's still important to this team because the Blazers were terrible
defensively for most of the year. They had one sixteen seven offensive defensive rating
for clean and glass roos, filtos, aut garbage time for the whole year.
That was the eighteen percentile for lineups that met the criteria, with Nurkics
on the floor one O nine five defensive rating, a first percent five of
line ups that met the criteria. He's important to what they do, but
you also don't really have the cachet on a team that has Damian Lord and
c J McCollum to like kind of come out and say like there needs to
be more, Like your bigger role is like play one, be held enough
to play and then to play better. That's your bigger role. I and
I forgot what I was gonna say, Like I just, you know,
imagine, like I don't think he's the only I think he I don't.
I don't have no idea what he thinks. In my opinion, he is
not the only center who could improve the Blazer's defense. Like I think there's
other centers out there who could also improve the Blazers defense. And also stay
in the game and shoot and you know, not like deflate everybody. Like
I was telling I was explaining this to somebody that like so many times,
you know, he's close to the basket, He's right there. It's it's
right there. I'm reaching you can see that. I'm like, the basket
is right there, and he just like does this little flip shot and instead
of like dunking it, and it just takes all the air out of the
team. It's like that was it was. It was right there, and
it just like deflates everybody. And I sorry, I hate feeling like I'm
just like piling on him, but I think there's other centers in the league.
I just like keep thinking about, like what if Robin Lopez was still
on the team. By the way, is shooting eighty percent and from less
than five feet, you know like what, I just don't I think Nurkicic
has come to think that maybe he that he's the key to the Placers being
defend better defensively, and I just think there's other people out there who could
also improve the Bleachers on defense. He's not the only one. I agree
wholeheartedly with that point. So I wish him all the success in the world,
whether it's important or somewhere else. I don't want to pile on him,
but I don't think he's the only one. Well, so that really
is my question for you, is because his contract is non guaranteed and at
twelve million dollars for what he does do, even though I think he's eminently
replaceable, he's not being waived, like they're just not letting him go.
Do you think that he's traded before next season? I wouldn't be surprised.
I wouldn't be surprised. You know, so much of it depends on CJ.
Because I have you know, it worries me to think about, like
what would happened for Damien if both CJ and Nurkish were traded, just because
he gets so attached to his teammates and everything, and that might be a
pretty good blow. But I also think that he also is really great at
embracing new teammates, so maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Where do you
fall on the CJ McCollum stuff. And we've talked about this. I feel
like the past two off seasons, when you were hosting a Blazer's ed pod,
I came on and talked about it. We talked about it during the
middle of this season, and the complexity of it is CJ mccollumb is so
good, but he's not He's never made an All Star team, he's not
an MBA player, so it's tough to trade him and get better because there
needs to be other stuff attached. So I've long been an advocate of don't
move CJ McCollum, Like, it just doesn't make sense given how last season
ended though, and everything that's going on right now with just Damian Lillard's future
kind of staring you in the face despite him being under contract for another three
or four years. Where do you land on it now? Because I find
myself like severely softening my stance where I'm like, you have Norman Powell,
who everyone expects him to resign. Otherwise, why did you trade for him?
Anthony Simons like showed stuff even during the postseason, like had moments.
So if you have those two guys, I might argue that CJ's probably never
been more expendable to them, But I'm just curious where you land on it
now. Yeah, So I I also have softened my stance a lot.
I wouldn't. I would look at it, and I look at it from
a different point of view though, because I want what's best for CJ.
And like on his podcast recently, like he addressed like all the being constantly
in trade members. He's constantly since like his second year, everybody in like
in the town that he plays for, has been calling for him to be
traded. So he's really used to it. And what he talked about in
his podcast and he's like, I know what I signed up for. He's
like, I am lucky enough to play in the NBA, and if I
have to listen to people talking about trading me, and if I get traded,
that's what I signed up for, Like, I am okay with that.
So that softened it a lot for me. I want him to go
somewhere where he would be appreciated. So what I don't want to see is
him being traded somewhere where he just ends up being bounced around the league.
I want him to go somewhere if he gets traded, where he can have
a meaningful impact, because I think he's underrated. I don't think people understand
like what he I mean, obviously he's a great player. Sure he hasn't
been an All Star, but how hard is it to be a guard to
get into the All Star And the might have been on this season had he
not gotten injured. Like, yeah, he's been fantastic. He I mean,
he's a fantastic player. He can get a shot from anywhere. He
believes in himself. He doesn't get in his own head. You know.
If he does have a spell where he isn't playing well, he just plays
right through it. He's like been like he's played through injuries. He has
been an absolute you know, solid you know, plus just all the good
things that he does in terms of like he's he's the guy who helps the
rookies and buys the rookies of the new suits. Who's who tells him how
it's all going? You know, CJ is so important and he has so
much more to give than just like an excellent mid range game and you know,
pretty good range from three. So I mean now too, as I'm
sure you know, like that's just he's really good, is my point.
But I'm sorry, Yeah, he so he doesn't he doesn't dunk, but
like who him or who in Portland does and he doesn't get to the line
very much. And I think that's probably the biggest thing is that you know,
we keep that's like the thing that we keep looking at that he could
improve is being able to draw more files and get to the line much.
But he has so much to give, and I've gotten to the point where
like I want to see him thrive wherever he is, and the way that
season ended for him, I was just like, you know what if we
can find if the Blazers can find a better place for him to thrive and
get something back that gives the Blazers something different because they've had this, they
played the same game for the last six years, Like the game looks exactly
the same. And that's why, like the Ben's Seven Things is like fun
to think about because it will look totally different. It would like be a
completely different look. And I think I personally am like hungry for just like
a different look because I've gotten really tired of watching the game. But I
think DJ could go somewhere and be so important and so good for another team.
Yeah, and look, since I'm filtering out the rookie season, but
finding bucket getters in the playoffs, like from scratch bucket getters, this isn't
someone was just hitting like shots off passes from Dame twenty point seven points per
thirty six minutes for his career outside of his rookie season in the playoffs,
shooting forty seven percent from two and thirty nine percent on three, and the
twos heat takes are difficult twos like they're floaters or those pull up mid rangers.
Forty seven percent is incredibly good. And that rate has actually been higher
over the past like four seasons in the playoffs, So he is really good.
It's just I agree with you. I think it might be time for
something different. And this was the postseason where you couldn't you have Zach Collins,
and like Nurkes was injured at some point during the year, Like injuries
weren't the main factor this time. And so like you said, they've they've
rolled the same thing out, And so you said, Ben Simmons is intriguing.
Now would you do the I wanted to throw fake trays at you.
I'll throw them at you later in the pod one because it'll be a segment
for YouTube, which is easier for me to cut up. So that's self
too, just to loop them all together. But for CJ McCollum specifically,
like, if the framework is CJ and something for Ben Simmons, is that
a deal you're actually doing from the team's perspective, Like, obviously you want
CJ to go somewhere where we thrive. Actually think he'd be fantastic in Philly.
But besides the point from that, it depends on what you mean by
the end something. It's probably Roco is the only piece that I can really
only player, excuse me, that I could really think of that you think
would be somebody that Philadelphia would also want because CJ is or the Blazers could
also part with right and see, because Ben Simmons is a defense onto himself
basically, which is tough to find. And if you're going to keep Nerk
in that situation, I probably wouldn't. But if you are, like,
you still have two really good defenders there, and I think you could play
Derek Jones Junior a little bit more if you wanted to, so Roco is
And also the thing with Dame and why I think CJ not that he's expendable,
but you don't have to worry about necessarily who's going to be the second
score, because someone will be because of Dame and also Dame scores and like
the tightest of Spain, like, it doesn't matter he's played with poor shooting
wings, which Ben Simmons is a very poor shooting something. He's a guard,
big whatever, so that's not an issue to me, which is why
I also like Ben Simmons for the Blazers, but for the Sixers, like
I do, think you need to because Ben Simmons is so good, so
young and under contract, and also CJ is pretty bad defensively, Roco softens
that blow for them a little bit, even though he's not the best individual
defender. That's the framework I came up with. I've been told by just
people invested in the outcome of this trade, let's just say said that that's
not enough for Philadelphia. But I think given where Ben Simmons's value is at
right now, if you want to trade a mid season when he's playing better,
like had they traded him in March, I think they probably could have
gotten more. But right now, I wouldn't give up more if I were
the Blazers, but I think I would do that trade if I were Portland.
I just don't, I guess I because I'm in Portland. I'm looking
at it through Portland cover glasses, and I just like, I don't know
where seventy sixers think that they can get more like that. I don't think
that. I think they're I think they're undervaluing CJ and what CJ could bring
to that team which needs like a backbone, it needs the strength, that
needs the leadership that CJ is bringing. CJ who never doubts himself, who
will you know, plays through everything. I just I think CJ would be
I would think that he would fit in really well as a player and as
that final piece of like somebody who can bring them all together, because like
who's the leader on that team? Like who doesn't have? Yeah, like
who's the leader on that team? Is it Joel Embiid? Is it?
It is Joel Embiid? Like the person that you want leading the team without
some sort of number two who's like an experienced number two, who's an incredible
number two or number one if we want to talk about it in Star Trek
terms, like imagine how lucky Joel Embiid would be to have CJ McCollum as
his number one, right, you know? And like and do you want
us to throw a Roko too, I don't think so, I don't know.
I just I don't think or then throwback somebody, you know, somebody
else who is that can be developed as the you know I mean. The
other thing is with Ben Simmons is he is more expect Like people are really
mad about how much money as being paid to Damian Lord and C. J.
McCollum. Well, Ben Simmons is getting paid even more for longer.
So like stuffing that blow a little bit too well. I think if you're
training for Ben Simmons, I think you believe in Ben Simmons, and so
you probably look at a sub twenty five year old on contract for that long
is like the asset i'd be curious to see. I agree with you in
the sense that look and people around the league they clearly feel the way that
you do. Because I don't know if you saw the rumored trade that the
Pacers offered Malcolm Brockdon in a first round pick. I'm assuming that first round
pick was this year's first round pick, which for them I think is number
Is it twelve? Is it? I think it's twelve or whatever it is.
That's not an offer that Philly would even pick up. The phone for
in March, and so if you feel emboldened to offer that, it probably
speaks to what you're saying about Simmons' value. The tricky thing with Portland and
CJ, though, is why I'm also attracted to the Ben Simmons scenario is
if you trade Sji McCollum, you still have Damian Lillard. So yeah,
maybe the Knicks are willing to send you young players bunch of picks. Damian
Lillward is not going to care about that. Like Damian Llward needs to win
now. I think Ben Simmons is at least as flawed as he is,
is still a win now player for the Blazers, and there are probably very
few scenarios where I think teams would be willing to give up a ton of
value for CJ where it's not a very future based package, which again does
nothing for the Blazers if they want to keep Damian Lillard. Yeah, and
I'm glad that you pointed out the fact that Ben Simmons is twenty five and
so like when his contract is over, he'll just be the age that CJ
is now, So that is not something that had taken into consideration. But
I mean I would push I mean, what do I know, But I
would push for just like straight up and put you and just remind them how
lucky they would be. Right, And I think you can do that because
if I'm Joel Embiid, although I've I've heard that Joelbid does like really into
like the nuance of the He spent time learning when he was injured under Sam
Hanky, so maybe he's like more invested in like the trade Minusha than we're
giving him credit. But if I'm Joel and Bid, yeah, I'm making
the straight up swap. And if I'm Portland, I am saying what you're
saying because if you're Filly and you're willing to move Ben Simmons right now,
his value has never been lower. So I agree with you there, I
don't think. I think if it was just a straight up swap, if
I'm Filly, I might roll the dice and see if I can reboo his
value in the next season. But that's why it's such a fascinating conversation for
both these teams, because they're indies. Just like they need to maximize the
windows of their current superstars, and that's difficult to do with who they have
around them right now. Yeah, I'm ready to adopt Ben Simmons. If
he wants to come to Portland, he can come and stay at my house.
And you know, I just I feel like I also want what's best
for him, and you know, after we saw at the end of the
season, clearly a change of scenery is going to be better for him.
Whatever a player says that, it's like a mental thing that I always just
sort of even though I've made jokes, like, I always sort of feel
for them because it's like they're under such a microscope. And that's the thing
with Dame in the social media we were getting back to. Maybe it wasn't
the entire It was probably I would say a minority of the fan base that
was going after him. But like when when you have that huge of a
following, the minority of the fan base is still probably thousands of fans,
So yeah, I get that aspect. Moving on to Norm I kind of
just off handedly said that they're going to resign him. Do you think that
they will, like, do you think that he's got from Portland next season?
I think that they will because they have the tools to do it.
You know, they can, like they have his bird rights, I believe,
so they can go over. I just think that's I think that's their
best chance of signing an impact player right now. Everybody else is going to
be somebody that they can pick up on the margins or will be a trade.
I think he's Yeah. Did you like his Did you like his fit
with the team during the time that he was there? Yeah, yeah,
I mean I thought he'd fit in really well. I like I talked to
you about at the beginning, Like I enjoyed the three guard line up,
even though obviously it wasn't sustainable and it wasn't something that they could really do
in the playoffs. But imagine if one of the guards was six ten.
You know, that's a different look right right there. I just want something
different, and Norm Powell was different. Great at getting downhill, so good
at getting to the line, like that was that was like a pleasant surprise,
Like, oh he draws fowls, he knows to do it, and
then he also he's just real explosive and a lot of times like if I
wasn't paying close attention, I'd like, look out at the corner of my
eye, I was like, was that Damber Was that Norm? I don't
know there's and I when I was grading the trade in real time, I
ended up being higher on it than when you're doing it in real time.
Like you look back and you're like, Wow, what an idiot I was
to write that. But I mean you talked about it, you were like
I saw you weren't too fascinated by it. And I was looking at it
purely from a cost perspective of I'm pretty sure Gary Trent Jr. Who is
younger, is going to be cheaper and it's a little bit more complimentary.
But they didn't need complimentary. They needed You mentioned the downhill juice that he
gives them, and so I think that's important. I'm just one of the
reasons why. I also think that there's a higher chance than normal of CJ.
McCollum trade. How many dudes under six four are you gonna pay fifteen
plus because he's probably gonna cost them between fifteen and twenty million dollars to keep?
How many of those do? And I want players to get paid.
I don't care about Jody Allen's pockets. I don't care. But the reality
of the situation is, are you gonna pay eighty million dollars? A year
to three dudes under six four. I don't think so, but I do
like Norman palace fit. And I also don't understand why you would have traded
for him if you weren't going to recent Yeah, yeah, I think that
he's a Blazer and he gives. Like I was really annoyed at once the
trade was made, Like you know, the headlines of Portland were like CJ
McCollum more tradeable than ever, and it's like, oh my god, give
it a rest. But at the same time, like I understand, like
and again having heard CJ say, this is what I signed up for,
and like thinking about like the way the season ended with like people actually boot
him in the last game and I'm like, no, you don't do that,
like that what this guy has done, you don't do that. And
they can he can thrive somewhere else, like all the best to him.
Well, can you tell my listeners about Norman Powell's dogs. Yeah, they're
so cute. I don't know, we have a we have a lot of
interesting pets on the on the team. You know, CJ got a new
dog during the pandemic. Robert Cummington has snakes, you know, Hussan Whiteside
used to have Fish, but you know, he's not with the team anymore.
But I don't know, it's just it's just fun to have someone who
like, you know, it's so like they have their own Instagram accounts and
they're just you know, it's just fun. It's fun to like, you
know, have other non basketball things sometimes. The Raptors Crossover pod you did
with I can't remember who was on it, but I remember listening to it
was fantastic because I didn't realize how attached the fan base was the Norman Powell.
Of all people, he's been such a rollercoaster his entire career, with
the exception of really this season, and I think towards the end of last
one, they seemed gutted to like lose him from an emotional standpoint, So
that was fun. I highly recommended people could check out that podcast. I'm
here for all the dog content, dogs, puppy love. I could probably
do without the snakes. Not gonna lie, but you know, Roko is
a different kind of guy, right, And that's that's just where he that's
just where he goes. He has this great picture we find him like where
he's got like the snake wrapped around his head like a headpiece. Oh my
god, did you do him? Buddy? Okay, Derek Jones Junior.
This is even so many like understated like could be free agents. But I'm
assuming he picks up his player option, if only because he really didn't play
a ton in Portland, especially as the season more on. What's the Is
it really just because he doesn't he's not a good shooter? Is that why
they didn't play him? More? Dan, I have no idea. People
people come to Portland and they lose all of their abilities to dunk, Like
we have two dunk champions on the team and the few as dunks in the
league right, Like I don't know why. I know, but like even
when he did play, yeah, I don't know why, Like Terry didn't
like that as an additional option, you know, to have somebody to cut
who's like right there, who can sky high. Part of it is because
we also don't have the best lob throwers in the league. I'm hoping that's
something that they will get better at. I mean, it's just like there's
just things. If you if you want to watch assists, if you want
to watch dunks, if you want to watch lobs. You just gotta pick
another team. Maybe things will change. I don't know, But I don't
know why Derek Jones, you know, but I don't understand why Dreck Jones
Jr. Didn't play like It wasn't like I thought that he was going to
be like a game changer, like their best player on the team or anything.
But I don't know why he sat down. Now. When Ronde Hollis
Jefferson joined the team, I saw the difference between the way Rande Hollis Jefferson
plays with no offense and Derrek Jones Jr. Having limited offense. But I
still felt Ronde kind of held the team together a little bit more with I
feel like Derek Jones Jr. Like never really found a role and maybe that's
why, like they just didn't have the luxury of giving him time to find
his role, something that I'm almost embarrassed say, I didn't give consideration too.
And so you just said it is when you're in an offense that's run
through Dame cj and then mellow. Of course Derek Jones Jr. Might not
be the best fit because you're not going to have those opportunities to necessarily move
off the ball as much or get out in the open floor like he did
in Miami, and then yes, you could argue will keep him on the
floor for his defense. He's kind of in the row Coo Molde though,
where it's he's a better team defender than he is going to be an individual
defender. I think you could Ronde Hollis jeff Nurkic maybe, but Ronie Hollis
Jefferson might just be their best individual defender from this roster this past season,
or is at least pretty close to it. So I hadn't really given that
more thought. And I'm not saying they shouldn't have played him more, but
that it's hard to overcome that type of offensive liability when the stuff that he's
best at the Blazers, as you mentioned, with the lobs and stuff like,
they might not be built to maximize that. You know, he may
be a little bit better individual defender than you give him credit for. I
mean, he wasn't great, but like he played a lot when he was
playing, he did play a lot of minutes on the best player, and
like he's slowed him down. But like when you don't have the machine of
a good like team defense behind that you know, how much can you do?
But like when you there's there's this great classic picture of him that I
love so much. It's not him blocking Lover on the stunk, which is
also great, but there's this one of him facing up Steph Curry just with
this smile on his face like he's just relishing. I've never seen this role.
It's such a great it's such a great picture, and it's just like,
I don't think he got as as much credit, and I don't think
he was helped by the fact that the team defense behind him. I think
I think, I mean, obviously this is a stupid thing to say,
but like, had he had better team defense behind him, he would have
seemed like a better individual defender. But I just I don't think that he
ever really got the credit or the chance to show or the role that he
needed well. And I think it's the same thing with Roco then too,
because people were talking about how, oh he didn't have the impact offensively he
was supposed to. But you make a great point there, or something I
should consider more heavily when there are as many bad defenders around him as it
is any individual defender short of a few, you know, Nope, especially
perimeter players, you can't be the defense that Rudy Gobert is. It's just
a different machine. And I'll just say one more thing. When Nurkics came
back, Roco like had the luxury of own playing one defense for one person,
and he was so much more effective because he had to cover for Cantor
and like we all know cancer, like Candor is what cancer is, and
like, but when Cancer was the starting center, Roco was playing defense for
two people, and you could really tell the difference in his defense when he
only had to play his own defense after use of nurkicch came back. Yeah,
and look the statistically the combination of Rocco and Nurkic at the four and
five, they were great defensively. So that you know, if you do
keep this team intact for the most part, there was like a blueprint to
like good minutes. I don't think you probably need one more guy who's not
Derrick Jones Jr. But I was going to ask you, because they technically
do need another backup big maybe two and one that could spread the floor would
probably be nice. What would you think about playing Derek Jones Junior in like
smaller Linance where he is the backup five. I don't really see him in
that role. I don't know why. I just go to Ronde. Like
Runde played that backup center. He played small ball center, and I mean
it wasn't great, but he also like just got there. I really like
Runde a holist different if he can't. And also, you know, Covington
played I see either because I mean Derrick Jones Jr. Is not big.
He's tall, he's tall, and he's you know, I mean, yeah,
he's he's kind you know, he's taller than Damien, but he's also
just very very thin. He just doesn't have a lot of bulk, you
know. So I guess maybe like Skinny at Davis, like before Davis got
all big and buff, like Skinny at Davis was like really fun as the
center because he could just like like snake up through all of these like you
know, get the rebounds, like by just like being tiny and like squirting
up through everybody and getting their rebounds. And like maybe Derrick Jones Jr.
Could Could do a little bit of that. But like just like you know,
he is so small that even some of the small ball centers would probably
throw him around. Yeah, and I guess that would be the trade off.
I think that probably the best way to maximize him offensively because he could
get some of those like roles to the basket as a center. But you
brought up great points defensively. I think you kind of already answered this question.
I think I'm not sure you're gonna throw me for a for a whirld
here, but between mellow Ronde and I feel embarrassed even including Enis Canner and
his hander in here. But he's like he's a free agent. So I
gotta who's more integral to the Blazers moving forward? Who do they have to
bring back for I mean, I don't know. I think you think that
I'm gonna say Ronde, which you know, my heart is with Runde for
just no good reason except for I just I just think he's just like he's
just so he's like he's he gave like two interviews during the two ten day
contracts that he was here or whatever, and they were both just so fantastic.
Like he's such a natural in terms of like communicating, and like you
can see that on the team too, Like he's actually a really good communicator.
So like as far as like, you know, somebody being able to
fit into like an important role either even if it's like, you know,
the eighth or ninth man man off the bench. I think, you know,
Ronde would be great, you know that. Having been said, we
are the caretakers of Carmelo Anthony's legacy or the what are they anyway, we're
supposed to be in curating his legacy here in Portland, and I actually do
kind of like having him around if he could, if his experience could be
used like to help like coach up the younger guys. But I don't know
if he But you know, part of being a caretaker of somebody's legacy is
also knowing when it's time to like not play them because sometimes they just don't
have it anymore. So that could be a sticky situation, and it could
be a sticky situation for a new coach who is a form or teammates.
So yeah, you know what I'm gonna go. No, I don't know
if I can go with Randy. It's not Ensna's cancer. God bless him
for like he was the best starting backup center that we could have possibly had.
But yeah, he was. He was that's a hard one. You
know, if I knew that Mellow could like be okay being like a player
coach, I would say Mellow because he has just been delightful this whole time
that he has been here. He's been amazing during the regular season and the
games, he was amazing. You know, he really had an impact.
He won them a lot of games during the regular season. Just seems like
he ran out his team a couple of times. He also had a couple
of playoff performances, if I'm remembering correctly and not getting them mixed up up
with last year. I don't know. I mean, I don't think i'd
like lay down for like. I don't think I would like how hard I
would fight for like having to keep necessarily any of them. That's fair there,
I would I would think Mellow would be more important as an actual player
if you end up, like if they made the CJ. McCollum Ben Simmons
trade some framework of that. I'm not saying Mellow's shock creation is gonna replace
CJ's, but you're gonna need someone else to do that because Norman Powell,
Okay, like fine, we like Ben Simmons ain't gonna do it. Yeah,
And I guess you could rely more on Anthony Simons too, but they
seem to go through, like Anthony Simon phases us just so. And I'm
so curious to see, like what his future is with this team, because
he is extension eligible and if you're gonna pay norm and if you're keeping CJ,
and if you have Dame like that factors. I'm not trying to make
this all about money, but like, at some point you get so small
on the back court that you can't give up all the money for those sub
six four players. The Placers are going to introduce the four guard lineup next
season. I would love it. I look, I mean here for I
was thinking they used to get Russell Westbrook and that he should be the fourth
guard and that would be hilarious. Oh my god, you're trying to I
dream out of Portland. I think I'm just making jokes. We got a
joke. What is so, whether it's you know, throwing aside, whether
it's by virtue of free agency or trade that they address this. What is
the biggest need for this team? I had of next year being like a
specific position play an archetype. What is it for me? I mean,
I don't know what the team thinks that they need, but I am yearning,
like actual yearning for a center who can shoot, like a center with
a shot, especially with poor Zach Collins being down again. That just absolutely
breaks my heart that he now is injured again and it's going to be out
and I don't even know if they're going to pick up his option or whatever.
I don't know if they're gonna He's a restrictive free agent, I believe,
so I don't know what they're gonna. I mean, they've waited so
long for him to get healthy and yet again now he's not, so like,
I don't know how much longer they can wait on him to get healthy.
So I would love a center who with more shooting ability. I mean,
I don't want to say I would love this center who could shoot threes.
Oh my god, Like I hate saying that out loud, because like,
who doesn't want a center who can shoot threes? But I just I
really think that they need a center. You know, a lot of people
say backup point guard. Maybe this coach will be more willing to go with
a backup point guard, but I just really think was Zach Collins in the
situation that he's in and thinking that use of Nurkus's time might be limited.
I want a center who can shoot. Yeah, I glossed over. I
skipped over the Zach Collins. Question I have for you is do you think
that they'll to me? I would be like, just because of what he
showed in his first two seasons defensively one, we don't know if that mobility
is going to be any more, Like how he's injured his ankle like a
million times now and he never you know, he showed shooting I think it
was last year, but it was elemited game sample size, and so he's
very much in theory, this floor spacing, mobile defender who is basically not
played like it like in so long. I would say seems like the best
option for both parties would be he signed his qualifying offer. They offer it,
and at seven point four million, I guess the argument against it would
be easy gonna play next season and then if he's not, or if there's
a chance that he won't, Like now you have burned a roster spot,
which you don't necessarily want to do. But I actually still think he could
be good. But I'm just curious whether you think they're going to try and
keep him around beyond this year. I mean, this is where why I'm
not well. This is one of many reasons I would be bad ebbing in
the front office because I am I'm so concerned about him as a person,
Like if he doesn't sign, like who's he gonna get like healthcare from?
You know, if he continues to break things, that's like freaks me out,
Like they just like cut him off and he doesn't like you know,
he's been in long enough with the players Union that he would be fine,
if that's any conflf if okay, that isn't that is Constellation because I believe
the other teams that somebody out there would want him, but like Portland hangs
on for so long to these guys, and like I'm more like with about
use of Nurkics, who like when he does play, plays great, but
like we haven't been able to have a whole season of him, Like we
just like how long can you keep? And then I know injuries are random
and you know, you you you never know where they're going to come from.
But like poor Zach just like he can't he can't stay healthy. And
I mean I think that would be one of those like really hard decisions that
like time to let somebody else see if they want to invest in him,
because PORL needs roster spots they need. I mean, if they're serious about
trying to build everything they can around Dame, then you know, and you've
got to start showing it if you are going to pay Norman Powell. And
again I would just pay Zach Collins. But paying seven point four million whoever
the number one I just said, to keep him for a year when he
might not play, when you're probably gonna go into the tax anyway, Like
it actually gets more expensive in theory than at seven point four million. I
just hope he's able to play again one but I've you know, and you're
worrying about like him as a human, I totally at that. I would
have full confidence that if he's not in Portland, I think he winds up
signing like a two year deal or something with another team where they take a
you know, it would suck for him, whereas price tag would probably be
diminished and they have a team option where they get to keep him super cheap
for next year or something. But he'll still be in the ambient just because
of what he showed those two seasons. I don't know this exactly, but
I remember looking it up a year and a half ago and it's still accurate
because they haven't played together since he and Yusef Nurkicch have played like under two
hundred possessions together. That's like, that's one of the big what ifs of
this Blazer team. Like, yeah, I would have been intrigued to see
more Zach Collins at center, but like, had you had Collins and Nurkicch
is like backbones of your defense, Like that's just one of the what ifs,
And it just sucks. It's a bummer for him looking at shoulder and
then I think, what two ankle surgeries? Now maybe it's their third.
Yeah, so that's just a bummer. Yeah. As a Blazer fan,
I'm very familiar with what if scenarios, and as a Blazer fan, I
find that I sometimes hang on too long and like, you know, I
gotta like toughen up a little bit. But also the thing that so says,
like Zach Collins this whole difficult year, he was with the team,
and he was on the sidelines, and he was cheering and he was giving
his all, and I just feel so bad because I was never like a
big Zach Collins fan, right, but like just seeing how hard he worked
to be a part of the team and then to have the setback, it's
just heartbreaking. And I just wonder like if you know, also like just
a different start could help him. Also, just like I don't know how
it's I have no idea like what it's like for his head, but like
maybe maybe he's just like, Okay, I just keep hitting injured in Portland,
Like maybe I need to just go somewhere else. And I could see
him like turning out to be like great in Charlotte or whatever, like whatever
random team decides that they want him. I could see him having a really
good career after he gets all these injuries taken care of. But at some
point in Portland, we have to learn how to move on. Did you
do you have any trade targets or free agents that have come to mind for
the Blazers that you're hoping to see them go after this off season. Well,
I don't know how realistic any of them are, but guys that I
end it, and they're like probably way beyond what the Blazers could could do
right now. I love Jonas Valence Junas, and I don't know that he's
really fits into what the Grizzlies are wanting right now, just because they're they
have such exciting young court and maybe they want to like give somebody else more
of a chance to play in there. So I love him. I love
Rashaun Holmes, and I'm not sure why he's so good. That's why you
love them, So I mean, I just I think that he again,
you know, as a big guy who like has decent shooting right and can
rebound, and the other the other guy I like and is Miles Turner,
so Rashaun Holmes, he's a free agent. So that one seems very hard
to me for the Blazers because I don't know how much he's going to command,
and of course they don't have any there if they have limited tools to
be able to bring in someone, but you know, maybe they could like
trade somebody into cap space and free up a little space that way to bring
in somebody like that. I don't know that that's what they would prioritize what
they're trying to do. And I know that Indiana has been trying to figure
out for a really long time. You know Sabonis Turner, can they like
we have our backcourt that it's like, can they play together? You know
they've got their friend port, can they play together? Like? I think
Miles Turner would be an awesome addition. I actually tried to figure out a
way to get the Blazers Miles Turner. When I was doing it, we
were talking about a trade exercise I did for Bleacher Report. I think that
what's tough for them is, I think you probably have a starting if you
look at it in a vacuum of if you dangled Anthony Simmons a future first
and use of Nurkicch, like the talent there is enough for a baseline,
But the Pacers have no needs for use of Nurkicch with Sabonis there, And
so it's can you find a third team to give something who wants Nurkicch And
that would give stuff to the Pacers for Miles Stern because Turner would be a
fantastic fit. It's just I don't know if they have like the assets to
necessarily get him, but what Indiana wants right, But you know, if
Sacramento is going to lose Rashawn Holmes then maybe they could use a player like
Yeah, I keep going back to when I was thinking of Nurkis trades like
Okay, Sacramento and Charlotte, like they probably should play faster than he would
be a fit, but they both also just need good center play because I
don't think Rashaun Holmes is gonna be back in Sacramento. They have limited rights
on Rashaun Holmes and so like they can't pay him more than it's like ten
point three million a year without using cap space, which is right now they
don't have, and so he's I'm so interested to what he gets. But
I would love I would love Rashaun Holmes anywhere. You could have mentioned him
for freaking Memphis now. Trudis would be an interesting trade target. And I've
also been curious as to whether because he's not under this long term deal,
Like the Grizzlies are good now, but they're not a contender, maybe they
would entertained offers for him that would be an interesting fit. I also tried
to figure out trade wise how to get them. It's a lower resolution,
but like Chris Bouchet shot blocking floor spacing, big Man, I think would
be a fit their trade assets are just so tough to work with. For
the Blazers, I think, as you could probably see because I sent you
trades and they're just in a very difficult situation. Yeah, this trade that
you sent me, trying to think of the one that that I that I
like the most. Oh, I like the Larry Nance one. I liked
it too, which makes me think that Cleveland won't. The trade I sent
you was right, So the Calves would get Anthony Simons Derek Jones Junior and
I'm assuming he opts in, and then you get the twenty twenty three first
round pick with top ten protection. They might see Simon's as redundant because they
have sexed in in Garland, and they might wind up with Jalen Green or
Sugs. But I think people think they're going to trade Sexton eventually, so
I think the value is at least close, and Larry NaNs Junior is entering
his age twenty nine season. The Calves are nowhere near ready to win,
and Larry X Junior is is so good I would love him. I tried
to go with this trade actually for the Blazers in my actual article, but
it felt like I was one assets short and I couldn't figure out how to
get it to Cleveland. Like I thought, like if you sent Yusuf Nurkus
to Sacramento, would they send Marvin Bagley and a second or Marvin Bagley and
Robert Woodard, who's a very interesting wing to me to Cleveland? Does that
get it done? But larry Y Junior is actually my single him and Chris
Bouche and my single two most favorite trade targets for the Blazers this offseason really
interesting because both of them, you know, when as soon as they come
to Portland, they're going to forget how to dunk. So how would they
still be if they weren't dunkers. I will say Chris Bouche will never forget
how to dunk. I'm a huge Chris Bouche fan, so he will never
two swam Dune champions. Few as dunks in the league. Are there any?
I guess the other free you know, you mentioned a big who shoots
looking at free agents that I think they could maybe sign. Daniel Tye would
be good. I think then he should be fairly cheap. And look,
I don't even know if they're going to spend as of right now. They
could probably spend five point nine million is the most they could spend on a
free agent, and that's assuming they're willing to spend it. I don't know
how you know they feel about paying attacks this year, But Daniel Tys would
be good if Michael Green opts out, if you wanted to go small.
But I'm guessing after living through what happened in Houston with James Harden wanting out,
he won't want to come to Portland with Dames situation in the air.
PJ. Tucker, if you wanted to run small, would be very interesting
to me for this team too. I was I'm always on board a guy
named Green. I have this I just want the Blazers to sign somebody whose
last name is Green. It goes back to this, like five years ago.
I did this thing where I realized that Blazers just lose to guy's name
Green, and I thought they could just like get a guy named Green on
their team that would like take one of them out of the mix. This
was when they had to like play against Memphis all the time, who had
two guys named Green. But to Michael Green was one of the Green that
I always liked that I always thought would be a nice fit on the Blazers.
What do you think about Nerland's Noel? I like his fit, But
if you want someone who could shoot, he can't even catch the ball.
Let him won't shoot right, He would just be defensive, and that would
be So you mentioned before about Nurkis. If you wanted to trade Nurkis as
part of getting another type of player, maybe it's a wing, like a
defensive wing. Nolan's Noel was I think proof that you could probably replace Nurkis
defensively because there are two different players. Defensively, no one's well covers a
lot more ground. He's more of a shot blocker, but he's really good
defensively to where I could see him having the same statistical impact on their defense
as Nurkics did. And so that's why you know, I agree that I
would like to see him get a floorce basing big But if you want the
non floorce basing big route, maybe because you're willing to trade nurkicch like Noel
is like one of the cheaper options in Fury, I would assume that I
think would be nicely to allow Bleil to give him a little bit more money
to somebody else. One other a free agent that you sent my way who
I was very intrigued by is Nick Batoum. I've loved watching him have success
with the Clippers, and like the way they used him as a small ball
center because he's a shooter, and then that they could slip over into small
ball center if they needed to, as opposed to like being somebody who's like
defensive and like like, oh sometimes he can shoot like he's a shooter.
So that intrigued me. I don't know if he would want to come back,
but it was I just so enjoyed watching him, except for the fact
that he was on the Clippers. But I want I want good things for
him. He's but there's his resurgence, just I don't if i'm him.
I don't know why i'd want to leave LA because I don't want to jinx
anything. But I had him listed because for the exact same reason you said.
You know, he doesn't have to be a small ball five, but
he gives you the option. Now with the way that the league is trending,
I wanted to ask you about one trade that you sent my direction that
I don't understand, and oh, maybe I'll understand it, Derek White for
CJ McCollum. Derek White. So, first of all, how does that
work. Does San Antonio have that much room that they can absorb that much
good contract? Yeah, So to put it basically in perspective, if they,
let's say they wanted to resign to mar de Rozen, they could probably
still just take CJ McCollum into cap space without any without giving anything back.
And so Derrick White is also making fifteen million next year because of his extension.
He is, he's injury prone. I think that's the risk there.
I just want to say I'm super insulted on CJ McCollum's part until you explain
to me why he should not be Because Derek White, I think, is
a borderline top tier defender who can go up against ones or twos in a
way that TJ McCollum never would have been able to. He can score,
he can initiate the offense, don't I think he's probably a better pick and
role player or a better facilitator than CJ at this point to get in in
the ground floor of someone who's probably slightly younger, and then you're also getting
a lotto pick that I had number twelve going a just it wasn't Derrik White
for CJ. McCollum. Straight up, it was Derek White and number twelve.
You could either use that another deal or you're getting it on the ground
floor of a younger player if you want a groom or see if you can
make an impact. Immediately you look distasted by it. I actually think it
was one of my favorite on Philly CJ trades. That was the I think
that's the only one I sent you because it's actually the one that I like
the most of anything that I can come up with, So I guess I
mean, yes, you Also you did include the number twelve pick. The
Blazers do not have a pick, so that would give them a pick.
I don't know what they would at this point. I don't trust what they
would do. And also, as I mentioned, Damian Luller is not going
to care about picks, so like there's that factor in as well. And
you know, it would also reduce the Blazers payroll a lot, which has
been a problem for them and for a long time. To put it mildly,
I just don't know that it replaces everything you would lose from CJ.
McCollum, and I just think that there would have to be other like what
other key moves do you think would have to be made like? Or do
you just think that Derek White like is as good as CJ. McCollum is
right now and would be able to do all the things that CJ does.
He's not as he's not He's not nearly as good offensively. I think he
might be a better fit for what this roster needs. If you're telling me
that Norman Powell is going to stick around, but he's not the level of
shot creator, even if I think he's a better table setter, he's not
the level of shot creator CJ is, and that that's the problem you run
into with with CJ. So I would understand your trepidation. I'm also a
big Derek white guy, so there's bias creeping in the last one. I
actually want to run by you. I know you didn't mention it, but
I was intrigued by it. Josh Richardson was awful this past year, but
he is someone who can defend one through four basically, has shown he can
hit threes in the past, and has also shown before he went to Philly.
There is some off the dribble juice there, and so I'm just wondering
if if Dallas is so low on him that the cost was Derek Jones Junior's
expiring contract because they trust they want someone who could run the floor better,
maybe play some small ball five nasire little who's speaking of someone who's struggled to
stay healthy. And then that story about him having COVID was absolutely gut wrenching.
So I'm not I taken into account. I'm that I'm just moving this
guy's life. I feel bad. And then a second round pick or something,
would you be willing to take a flyer on Josh Richardson in that scenario?
My thought there was just this kind of allows you to keep CJ and
Dame together and it all feels like it makes sense even though you're still trending
smaller to me. So, I mean, there's definitely some pros to that
there. You know, he's a wing defender. He also has, you
know, an expiring contract, so it's not somebody that you'd be like bringing
on forever and ever. You could like give him a try and see how
it goes and how he fits in overall, though, Like it's one of
those things where like if you're telling Damian Lillard you're gonna make changes and give
him the support that he needs to go in the next direction. I just
don't know that this is the move that sends that message to your superstar.
I mean I would totally agree. It was more like you're we're keeping CJ
for you. I mean, that's that's how Neal Osha does things. He'll
be like, well, you wanted to keep CJ, so this is the
best that we could do. This is like, sorry, that made that
horrible nice you know you wanted to keep CJ. This is the best that
we could do. That's just so Neal Olsha and I just I don't know
that it moves the needle enough. It's you know, it's a it's a
super classic around the edges type move. That's like and I think the players
that you have involved in the trade, like, I don't see that as
a as a huge loss. And also we just feel, you know,
give them a chance to thrive somewhere else. So I don't dislike it.
And you know what, you're the one who called Robert Covington last year and
I was like, and then let's turn out great. So you know what,
why not is there? So it does seem like you think though they
need to take a bigger swing. So is there like when you thought of
trade targets or CJ. McCollum bring backs aside from Ben Simmons, has there
been any names that's grown to mind? Because like, would you even do
like does a let's say a CG. Mccollumn for Miles Turner and right,
who else does that? Is that? Like? Does TJ. Warren and
Miles Turner for CJ. Mccllum do it for you? It depends on if
Nurkis is still there on that kind of thing. But like, yeah,
I'm like, I'm ready to hell out of Portland already. I'm sorry.
I'm over the Nurkas experience importand I think I kind of am too, Like,
oh my god, dude, can keep him if you have Miles Turner
of course, Like then then there's another move that needs to be made for
sure. Yeah, No, I'm I am as a Blazer fan, I'm
ready to Like I said, I'm ready to see something different. I'm ready
to let go of the Nurkish experiment. I'm ready. I would love to
be able to keep c J. But I'm also ready for a c J
to go, like, you know, somewhere else if if that's better for
him. I love the idea of like somebody like Miles Turner coming in,
who like somebody with a proven track record of what they can do. I
mean, that's why I like Jonas Valentcinis. Like he's not like the flashiest
guy or anything, but like we know what he can do, and what
he can do would be useful for the Blazers. I think it would be
really really useful for the Blazers. Would you would would you say, teaching
a column for him though you wouldn't know, Okay, no, no,
no, no, that would be more like I mean, nurkis free Jonas.
What else do you think the Blazers would have Blazers have to throw in
more? Yeah, I would think Simons and then probably some sort of pick
m But I think I think just to change like that would be pretty significant.
Or do you think that Jonas Valancialis is too much like use of nurkids
so that they're not really that different. No, I think he's a much
He can actually shoot. Yeah, he helps the offensive lot. I feel
like work is better defensively and he's better as a passer. But if that's
the cost, if it's we're gonna have Ben Simmons too, so well,
and that's the so I find myself trying to keep CJ in Dame together because
if you're not getting Ben Simmons back, I haven't really found it. We
just I haven't really found a deal that I like, which is why I
focus so much on You know, I would view Larry Nance as more than
justin on the Margins move, but you're absolutely right that it Josh Richardson move
is definitely like, yeah, okay, there's like some upside there, but
that's very much. Hey, we're trying to remain intact. Would make some
sort of change. This is Neil o'sha saying, yeah, the roster was
better than Terry Stotts could coach it too, and there's risk in that.
But I just unless it's Ben Simmons, I just haven't found the CJ McClone
trade to return that the like even the Pacers won. I don't even know
if I like it for the Pacers because of what that does to their defense.
But like I just TJ Warren Miles Turner like, yeah, I kind
of like it. But I'm looking at what CJ does from a playoff scoring
perspective, and now I find myself to being like, all right, you
know what, let's keep them together for another year, Kevin? Can you
do something medium? Is there another Norman Powell size trade in you? Without
moving? CJ? Is basically where I'm at. I think Damon's I mean,
Damon CJ with a center who has a different look would be interesting.
Damon TJ with a center who you know could play defense but also can score
from different places. Or maybe that's use of nur Kitchen his bigger role.
Maybe we're gonna see Yusef Nurks just unleashed, and he's gonna be able to
do all these amazing things because he's been hell back all of the years.
Ears, I don't know what is that? I know we talked like does
he want post ups? Is this more picking rolls? Like? What is
does he want? Like you said, does he want to take more threes?
Like? What is what is this role? I don't know. I
just think that people were whispering his ear. They don't appreciate you, they're
not using you enough, They're only playing you twelve million dollars. You could
be getting so much more. You're so much better than this. I just
think that he's had that in his ear and so he believes it and like
god speed, Like, yeah, go find a bigger contract somewhere else,
or you know, go grow into you know, somewhere where they can pay
you a lot more. I don't know, it's that's a better kind of
mess than the other kind of mess that we talked about earlier, right,
I just it's so hard to like talk about all of these things knowing this
other stuff was like hanging over Yeah, exactly, it's so trivial. I
have common hear enough of your time. But my final question would be,
is there anything we haven't talked about that you think needs to be talked about
with this team heading into the off season, or anything you want to talk
about relative to this team? No, I mean we've covered so much and
I've taken a lot of your time. I love this. Anyone who wants
to entertain my fake trades for their teams. I did all this research.
It was so it was really fun. Like I you were like, do
you want to talk about trades? And I was like, yeah, send
me a bunch so that I can react to because I'm not at a point
where I can like come up with trades, but I really like to.
Almost vomited at a Derek White one, so that one makes me feel a
little bit bad. It looked like vomited on camera. I was. It
was more like DEBTF, like you, where are you coming from? Just
like I just needed to come and defend CJ on that one because it's just
like so like I don't know, I just see them as farther apart than
you do. But like I've been watching CJ, I know really well.
We didn't talk about the Harrison Barnes. He's another player. I absolutely love
you sent Harrison Burns trade, So I guess if there's one more thing to
talk about, there was the Harrison Barnes trade. I don't know if it's
the best one. You said, Harrison Barnes and Delon right for Derk Jones
junior, use of Nurkic Anthony Simon's in a first round pick. I think
Harrison Barnes is a great player. I don't know that he moves the needle
enough to like lose both use of Nurkis and Anthony Simons from the current roster.
Yeah, and you're small after that because now you've traded your starting center
when you don't really have a backup center. So I recognize that, but
Delon Wright does a lot defensively for you, as does I think Harrison Barnes
positionally at the three or the four and him and Roco, and I think
you can get away with Barnes and small ball five minutes. I'm not saying
the Blazers need to play it that way. That one I didn't bring up
because I was leary of it. It felt like, I don't think it's
too much value for what the Blazers are getting back, but if you're them.
We talked about bigs, like you need to know that Daniel Tye is
signing with the Blazers or that another big yeah is going to sign with the
Blazers because you're very small after that. But I'm a huge I'm a huge
Harrison Barnes guy too. Like you talk about someone who just fits anywhere,
and it's like solid, he's not great defensively, Roco is definitely better.
I'd probably argue Derek Jones Junior is better, but he's just solid, and
I think the Blazers need more of those guys that are assets on both ends
of the floor, and it's hard to keep track of with like all of
these different options that we impossibilities that we've talked about. But I guess it's
like a question that I have to have for you. Is one of the
things that I worry about a little much is the Blazers going too far concentrating
just on defense, because, like we all the story has been told about
how bad the Blazers have been on defense, but like I also sort of
worry about them like keeping Damian Lollard and building everybody else defensively around him,
and that fundamentally sort of like taking away that the way the Damian Lollard like
creates the team identity, because like, the team identity has always been a
lot of offense, and you know, I just worry about maybe going too
far in the other direction. Is that something you've ever thought about, like
with anybody. It's funny because it's in the side notes that I have in
my drafts and Gmail. My notes are all over the place, But I
tried to filter. I want to see when I it was the Jonathan Isaac
trade I sent you that I'm not the biggest fan of for either team.
That made me think about this is would they be skewing too far in the
defensive direction. So I decided to filter out their numbers on what Damien like,
what their offensive lineup looked like when Dame played without CJ. Norm or
Gary Trent Jr. Since their you know, times are and then mellow,
and the offense was knock during those times, and so I think it was
in the thirtieth percentile they ranked in offensive efficiency and that's Dame. Like I
view, Dame is a ticket to a top ten offense, and so that
would be a concern. I think the fact that you have Norm, I
think alleviates it a little bit. But if we're talking about Melo going somewhere
else, and I'm not saying he was the most important guy of their offense,
and if you're trading Nerd for a defensive upgrade, he's not as good
on offense, I do definitely think it's a concern. I would just looking
I might look at it from a postseason perspective of your rotation is going to
be so short that once you get to the postseason, the defense is going
to be more important because Damian Lillard will be on the court for forty to
forty two minutes, and the offense will be good when he and Norm are
together. But that's also kind of why I kind of focused on the CJ
trade the non CJ trades too, is because if you trade him without getting
you know, there's a real offensive trade off from CJ to Ben Simmons.
It's just you still have Norman Powell in that scenario. And then I'm still
I'm tantalized by Anthony Simmons. It seems like during the last month and a
half of every season he just goes off and off, and so if you
do believe in him, maybe there's a path there. But I do think
that's a concern, a fair concern for you to have, And I'd be
curious, like, what does leaning too much into defense look like for them?
I don't know what it looks like, but there definitely would be a
risk of doing that. Well, we'll have to check in again halfway through
the year when the Blazers are, like, you know, suddenly top five
defense or remain in the bottom cellar. I feel like it's going to be
one or the other. Well, I hope you know, I'm going to
be pestering you before then once the offseason actually happens and we know what this
team looks like doing into next season, so I hope you're able to come
back for our regular season preview series. I love talking to you. You're
always so generous with your time and your analysis, and I appreciate the update
on the pets that Blazers players have. Do not know there is a picture
that existed about Roco wearing a snake on his head. I need to see
that picture of Derek Jones Junior smiling against sEH and Curry though, if you
can send me that. But thank you so much for your time. It
really is always a joy to speak with you, and for anyone again who's
not following Tara on Twitter remedy that post taste at tc B b I Ggs,
co host of the We Have a Take and Step Back Sisters podcasts.
Twitter handles are the names at We Have a Take and at Step Back Sisters
once more with feeling and for the kids. Thank you so much, Tara,
Thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure.