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Hi, everyone, Welcome to the
show. This is Martin Willis your host,

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and this is a rerun today.
Now, I got to admit that

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I've always been able to do a
show no matter what, whether I was

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traveling overseas or in other parts of
the country. But this week, on

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the twenty ninth, it's just impossible. I just couldn't figure out a way

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to do it. So this is
a rerun. This is Ralph Bloomenthal after

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he wrote the Vanity Fair article back
in twenty thirteen. Now, I just

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did a day calculator. He was
on my show two thousand, some two

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hundred and forty nine days ago.
So I hope a lot of you this

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will be the first time. Well, actually, I'm glad if you listen

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to the show when you did.
If you're back, so you can't remember

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everything you said after all this time, I don't think. But anyway,

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it's an interesting interview and I hope
you enjoy it. I apologize for not

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having a fresh show for everyone this
week, but we'll be back next week

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with a Rizwan Verk on technology and
entrepreneurship. Should be an interesting show.

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Thanks so much for listening, and
we'll see you next week. And here's

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my guest. I have Ralph Blumenthal
on Skype. How are you, Ralph,

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I'm flyin Maudie. Thank you,
thanks so much for agreeing to be

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on the show. I understand this
is the first show you are on about

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your recent article and vanity fair it
is. That's great, I got the

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scoop. Well, you're a lucky
man, and so am I to be

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interviewed by you. So the article
name is alien Nation, have humans been

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abducted by extraterrestrials? And it's mostly
about John Mack. I have to ask

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a number of questions. First one
comes to mind. You have had a

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prestigious career. Have you had any
ridicules so far for this article? Well,

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a few emails came in. I'm
used to that, but actually I

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was surprised by the positive reaction.
I think everyone was so relieved to find

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a so called mainstream journalist treat the
subject seriously that I was quite flattered by

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the outpouring of positive reaction. Oh
that's great. I was hoping it would

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encourage you, you know, stay
at what you're doing, but at least

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do a little more exploring. I
think you did. It's a wonderful article.

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And this is in Vanity Fair,
so one of the most major magazines

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in the country. It's pretty exciting
to see this article. Well, thank

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you. Yes, it's on the
website. Actually, they couldn't get it

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into the magazine fast enough for the
upcoming summer gathering in Newport of you know

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of the experiencers, the abductees who
meet, who meet there every year,

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So rather than try to update it
with another gathering, because I intended to

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one last July, they decided to
get it right up on the site.

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But it's a very active site.
It had quite a while ago, twenty

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five thousand individual page views and two
thousand shares, so it really seemed to

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have hit a nerve. Yes,
I bet so. You've heard mostly from

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the UFO community. Have you heard
from other colleagues. No, I really

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must say I've heard. Well,
a lot of my friends did see it,

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and we're a little surprised that I'd
be writing about this. We can

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talk about that. But also there
was quite a reaction in the UFO community,

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as you know as well as anyone. It's a very tight knit group.

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It very it's disparate, but people
keep in touch with each other and

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whenever there's a development PROO con there's
a lot of sharing back and forth,

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so everybody tries to keep on top
of things. And when this article came

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out, it was immediately sent back
and forth. I could almost see it,

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you know, flying through the cosmos, and I was getting responses from

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all over the place. Yes,
I write away a past guest. Actually,

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just last week, Leslie Kane connected
with me right away and said,

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you have to get a hold of
this guard right away, and so I

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was really excited that you responded so
quickly. Well, thank you. Leslie

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is one of my favorite people.
You know, she is so clear eyed

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and sober about the whole UFO things. She's brought so much important investigative attention

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to the subject and high, high
credibility. So she really is one of

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my favorite people. We did an
article together for the Huffington Post on these

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Chilean episode, a very strange flyover
that went so fast and it was only

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caught on film, but a she
as somebody I highly respect. Wow,

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that's great. Have you had an
interest in the subject for quite a while?

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Well, As I said in some
of my proposals, I've talked to

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a number of publishers. Now As
a kid, I was very interested in

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science fiction growing up in the fifties. It was really the big thing.

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I mean, UFOs were suddenly on
the agenda, and I gobbled up everything

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by Ray Bradberry and Isaac Asimov.
So as a kid, I was certainly

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interested in it. But my interest
came later when I picked up a copy

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of a. John Mack's Passport to
the Cosmos, and it was about two

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thousand four or five, and I
said, Gee, this is a guy

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I'd like to interview someday. I
was already an established correspondent for the New

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York Times, and the next thing
I heard he'd been killed in London.

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So that's really where my interest started. I see. Yeah, there's there's

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a little bit of controversy about his
death, you know, I mean it

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was kind of an unusual circumstances,
probably just an accident, but still a

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little unusual. Well, I have
satisfied myself that it was an accident,

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I know. I mean, there
are a lot of conspiracies out there,

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but it is important to stick to
the facts. And while you can never

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a negative, I must say I've
talked to the family, I've looked over

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the police reports and there's nobody serious
out there anymore who thinks it was any

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kind of anything else than a tragic
accident. And the driver was drunk,

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he admitted that. And John was
very tired. He was coming back from

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a talk in London and he stepped
out of a subway station underground station,

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was not used to the traffic patterns, looked the wrong way and was hit

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and died almost instantly. So I
think while the circumstances was so strange and

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unusual, given his notoriety at that
point, particularly his fight with Harvard,

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there was immediately speculation that it was, you know, a hit or assassination.

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But I'm absolutely convinced, and so
is everyone else who's looked at the

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subject seriously, that it was just
an accident. Yeah. I've heard of

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a lot of people getting in accidents
in England in particular, you know,

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looking the wrong way, you know, just regular car accidents and things,

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because it's so used to, you
know, the right handed traffic. He

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was very tired. He had gone
to talk about the great fascination of his

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life, which was te Lawrence of
Lawrence of Arabia. He'd written a book

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that won the Pulit Surprise in nineteen
seventy seven, so he'd gone to give

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a talk on Lawrence. He was
up late. It was very emotional for

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him. It was sort of a
lot of strange things. And it was

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the anniversary just about to the day
of his father's death in a vehicle accident.

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His father was killed in Vermont in
a car accident coming home from their

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summer home. And there's also a
lot of interesting things after he was hit

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and killed. People who had visitations
from him or say they did so.

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He was getting very interested in survival
life after death. And this almost seemed

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talor made for his research in that
he himself, according to associates, appeared

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to them with messages after he died. So in that sense, it was

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kind of an extension of his life's
work. Wow, let's talk about the

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Rhode Island event. Was that the
first time, the end the only time

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you've ever gone it is? Yeah, I had talked to Let's see,

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this is how I got onto it. As I started interviewing Max associates,

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they were telling me that he showed
up periodically at a convention every year in

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Newport, Rhode Island, hosted by
this woman who was a fairly prominent Newport

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resident whose grandfather had had a mansion
there, part of Old Newport actually,

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and so I was kind of interested
in that, but I never thought of

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going until last summer. I was
in New Hampshire and I was not far

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away, and I was talking to
the woman who hosts these gatherings. Her

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name is Annekoolier. She has a
B and B in this beautiful mansion on

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the Newport waterfront, and she said
I should come and attend, and it

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seemed an invitation too good to pass
up because a lot of these experiences,

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as you know, Marty, are
very publicity averse. They're not looking for

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attention. Contrary to what you know. Outsiders often believed that these are either

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hoax or publicity seekers, fabricators looking
for attention. It's quite the opposite.

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They're very troubled people based on what
has happened to them. They were in

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troubled before, but they were troubled
as a result of what they went through,

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so they are not looking particularly for
attention. But she invited me to

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come and meet with them, and
I had met many of them already.

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I thought it was a wonderful opportunity, which had turned out to be.

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It anchored the peace in vanity fair
because it gave it a focus. So

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it was a good device for telling
the story. But it was also very

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important to me to meet not only
experiencers, but scientists who were there,

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Scientists, astrophysicists who showed up,
the director of a hospital in Boston who

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had all kinds of anomalous psychic experiences. So that that's the story on Newport.

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You speak in your article about when
Mac was on Oprah with some experiencers.

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Did you have you ever seen tape
of that? Have? I have?

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Very interesting because first of all,
it was fairly early in Oprah's television

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career, and she you could see
already what a good interviewer she was.

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She was a bit skeptical, but
she was very accepting of these very strange

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stories. So not only was there
Mac talking about the phenomenon, but he

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had a group of people, young
people who told very straightforwardly of their extraordinary

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experiences taken aboard a craft and meeting
these beings and losing, you know,

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missing time, the whole syndrome.
So the fact that they were talking about

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it so casually and so lucidly,
and that there were no visible signs of

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insanity. I mean, it was
all very forward and Oprah was really impressed.

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Yeah, I would like to see
that tape now, you know,

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I was wondering if there was any
type of ridicule or something during that tape,

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or how the audience reacted. Basically, the audience was. It was

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pretty accepting and I think quite fascinated. Oprah would indicate her skepticism by a

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raised eyebrow or quizzical look, and
her intro actually is interesting. She said,

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you know, we have here,
you know John mac He believes that

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people have been abducted by aliens.
He believes that they have had children with

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aliens. So she was you know, you could see her skepticism there.

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But the audience was quite supportive,
especially once they had a chance to hear

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these people. You know, one
of the things I've seen a documentary on

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that I thought was pretty fascinating is
when he went to Africa, when he

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was interviewing those children. You mentioned
that briefly here. You know, it

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wasn't really abductions, but what an
amazing story that is. Well, it

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is one of the most I mean, the whole canon of alien abduction,

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as you know, revolves around certain
very powerful stories. One is the story

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of Betty and Bonney Hill, and
one is the Linda Napolitano Brook so called

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Bridge abduction, the Alleghash incident.
So there are a number of things that

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you know were particularly that loom large
in the history of the abduction phenomenon,

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and one of them certainly is the
incident at Rua in Zimbabwe. And as

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I sort of tell it in the
Vanity Fair Story and tell it and hope

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to tell it in greater length in
a book, Mac at the time was

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being persecuted, I think is the
only way to describe what Harvard was putting

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him through. They'd subjected inquisition for
his willingness to entertain the reality of alien

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abduction. And while he was being
subject to all these hearings at Harvard,

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he got a call or his office, initially from a BBC correspondent in outside

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Harare, Zimbabwe, that a children's
school had had some kind of an episod

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so a visitation of a Ufo and
the children saw beings which they reported to

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the school authorities, and it had
become quite a story in Zimbabwe, and

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Mac, despite all the troubles he
was going through at Harvard, dropped everything

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and with his research partner, flew
to Zimbabwe to talk to these kids themselves,

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and Mac and his associate interviewed dozens
of these kids and they all had

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the same story that they saw this
craft come down. It was either hovering

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or landed, and they saw two
or three beings as small dark figures in

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form fitting outfits, and they were
communicating telepathically with the children, and the

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children were very troubled by it,
and they all had similar story, which

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was interesting. It was hard to
imagine that these kids could make all this

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up and keep their stories consistent,
right, And that's really the basis of

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that story, which is very very
powerful. Yes, getting back to your

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career now, you actually were involved
in writing in Vietnam. Yeah, I

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was a New York Times correspondent Vietnam. It was early in my career and

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I had been a correspondent in West
Germany at the time, and then they

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sent me to Vietnam. It was
pretty much the high point of the war

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sixty nine, a year after ted
I was fascinating. I was in Vietnam,

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covered a lot of the war,
and then when the war shifted or

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spread to Cambodia, when Prince and
it was overthrown, and Cambodia sort of

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joined the war on the American side, which was kind of a disastrous decision

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for them. They got drawn into
it. And I covered that pretty much

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from the beginning and then left about
the time, said Sidney Schanberg came in

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and covered the arrival of the Khmer
Rouge, which became, of course,

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his wonderful movie The Killing Fields.
Let's see, I've just wonder if we

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should talk a little bit more about
your career in general. What do you

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think, Well, that's fine.
I think it's very important for you know,

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listeners to know that, you know, I come to this not as

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a proponent or an advocate, at
least I didn't start off that way.

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I don't think I've become an advocate. I still consider myself a reporter,

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um and I think that I hope
that that's the strength of my reporting,

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that I come to it as a
reporter. And the one thing, uh,

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you know, I've really stuck in
my investigative reporting. Over the years,

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I've been involved in a lot of
political exposes for The New York Times.

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My training is to stick to the
facts, and I think I hope

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that what I've brought to this story
is a adherence to the facts, an

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openness to to to hear things and
to understand things, but also in innate

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skepticism. I don't believe anything anyone
tells me on the face of it,

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and that everything has to be tested, right. I think what is lacking

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is the one word you just mentioned
out there is the openness to at least

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investigate. And it's like a breath
of fresh air to have someone like you

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actually investigate something like this. Well, you know, I sort of took

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my cues from John mac who also
described at great length in his books and

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all his interviews how he came to
it as a skeptic. It's an interesting

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story. He was brought up as
a scientist. His whole family had been

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eminent physicians at Harvard. His training
was science. He was he had to

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be a medical doctor before he could
be a psychiatrist, so he trained.

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I have a photo of him conducting
an autopsy. Yeah. He was a

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man of science, and he was
an activist, a social activist. He

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believed in, you know, ending
nuclear weapons, and so politically he was

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certainly on the left, but he
was a strictly a man of science and

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when he eventually started learning about these
unusual, this anomalous world. He had

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taken breathwork training with Stanislav Groff and
his wife, and he had learned well,

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I mean psychiatrist deal and hypnosis and
alternate states. All the time.

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He was always aware that there were
some hidden corners of the human mind,

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which every psychiatrist knows. But he
began experimenting himself. He tried some psychotropic

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drugs, hallucinogenic drugs, and he
was surprised at the things they brought out

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in him. He had had a
very traumatic youth. His mother died when

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he was seven months old. His
father remarried, but he always missed his

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mother. So a lot of these
issues came out when he was experimenting with

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drugs. So he knew that there
were sort of hidden corners of the human

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mind, but nothing prepared him for
the letters that Bud Hopkins showed him.

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When Mac met Bud Hopkins, and
Hopkins said he'd been getting these letters from

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people who had been abducted or said
they'd been abducted, and Mac looked at

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them and was trying to figure out
what was going on. He didn't believe

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it either. Do you know how
they first met. Yeah, Mac had

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been dabbling in some of these interesting
groups like est on the West coast.

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You know, it was an era
of great experimentation, sexual experimentation, you

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know, psychiatric experimentation. All these
things were going on in the fifties and

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sixties, great opening up. And
he was an ego participant. And there

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was a woman in one of these
groups on the coast California who knew Bud.

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Bud Hopkins was a very accomplished artist
who had himself seen a UFO on

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Cape Cod in the sixties and had
written about it. And this woman became

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a kind of a bridge between Mac
and Bud Hopkins. She told Max she

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had met Mac I guess on the
coast and said, there's this guy,

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Bud Hopkins was really interesting. You
should meet him. So Mac said,

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he always remembered the date it was, you know, in nineteen eighty I

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believe, and he went to visit
Bud and Bud showed him these letters.

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So that's how it came about.
I see in the article you wrote you

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talked briefly about the Brooklyn Bridge UFO
abduction. Do you know more details about

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that. I've heard about that,
but I've never really well, I do.

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It's really one of the most sensational. That's certainly a fair word to

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use cases that have ever come up. I mean, of course, the

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Hill's story is very sensational. They're
all sensational. There's not an abduction story

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that's not. But the Linda Apoloitis
I called her by her real name,

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which he gave me permission to do. Bud Hopkins gave her a pseudonym in

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his book. But I'll give you
the story very quickly. A major world

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figure. This is in Bud Hopkins
telling of the story. A major world

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leader was on his way downtown to
a meeting with two bodyguards. His car

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suddenly came to a stop under the
FDR Drive at the East side of Manhattan,

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and they didn't know what was wrong
with the car. They stopped and

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got out and were looking around and
again. This is according to the story

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told in Bud Hopkins book and the
story that Linda later told me. The

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world leader and the two bodyguards saw
a spacecraft hovering over a building near the

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Brooklyn Bridge. To their amazement,
they saw a figure come out of the

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window levitate out of the window,
followed by three to join three small beings

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who had come out of the spacecraft. They all floaded toward the spacecraft.

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The spacecraft then shot over the East
River, over the Brooklyn Bridge and plunged

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into the water. That was the
story. There were apparently there were some

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witnesses on the Brooklyn Bridge drivers whose
cause had also stalled. There were witnesses

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at the New York Post printing plant
anyway, And in his book Witnessed,

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Bud Hopkins tells this story. And
later when I met Linda, the woman

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who was supposedly levitated out of her
window, she confirmed the story to me.

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At least in her experience, this
is what she remembered. You often

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under hypnosis, it's very hard to
recover these memories because they're very clouded.

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Anyway, I you know, there
was no way, in the context of

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this article, or even in a
book of my own, that I could

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completely check out the story. It's
become kind of controversial because different people have

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claimed it was a hoax, and
it's really spread a very lively debate online.

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But at least I was able to
talk to Linda and the world figure

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who Bud Hopkins never identifies in his
book, but is identified in other articles

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online supposedly the former Secretary General of
the United Nations, via Perez Daquire,

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who was on his way to a
meeting. I did get the chance through

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a news colleague to get some questions
to Daquire, who's now retired in Peru,

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and he was asked about this whole
episode, and his responses were quite

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enigmatic. He said he didn't really
remember. He didn't deny it, but

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he said he has no interest in
these types of stories. But it was

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not exactly a flat denial. It's
a very peculiar story, to say the

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least. At least I was able
to track down some of the figures as

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like Linda for example, and Leslie
Kane, who was close to Bud Hopkins,

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has a lot of his original research, and I was able to confirm,

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you know, some of the outlines
of the story. So again,

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that's the so called brooklyn Bridge abduction. And the story goes on that Linda

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was taken to a strange place,
some beach, and one of the people

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she was abducted with came back with
some of the sand. But it had

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been tested, and as usual in
these stories, it's inconclusive. There's never

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enough physical proof to be persuasive.
That's one of the mysteries of the whole

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you know, UFO and alien abduction
phenomena. No one has ever been able

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to come back with incontrovertible scientific proof. There's always tantalizing things. There's little

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cuts that heal quickly. There's witness
sightings that coincide with abductions. You know,

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there's a pattern of evidence of fragmentary
evidence that falls short of controvertible proof.

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That's the way it seems like it's
always been. Since you've written this

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article, have you considered what you
would do if someone contacted you and started

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relaying their abduction experience to you.
Where you would go with that? Well,

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you know, some people have actually
contacted me. They've also contacted you

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know, they told me they've been
in touch with other you know groups and

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had talked to MAC at the time. So I would definitely talk to them.

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I frankly, I've interviewed a few
of them for what I hope will

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be my book. So I've heard
these stories firsthand myself. I've you know,

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tested checked them out. I've talked
to other people. For example,

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there's a young woman in Massachusetts who
told me all kinds of stories and she

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told me about an episode where she
felt she was abducted from her bedroom,

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and I talked to her, you
know, to check it, to verify

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it. I talked to her husband. They've since separated, but they're in

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good terms, and he was What
struck me particularly is he's a police officer.

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He was able to confirm some of
the details. He was as very

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common as you know. He was
kind of paralyzed, he couldn't move,

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but he saw the flashing red light, he felt the presence in the room,

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he felt her struggling when she was
abducted. So here's a police officer,

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00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,839
you know, with some degree of
credibility, still working as a as

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a law enforcement officer, who confirmed
some of the outlines of the story.

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So I have talked to quite a
few of these people, and wherever possible,

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you tried to get outside con information. It's very difficult, as you

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know, and again it always falls
short, you know, full of scientific

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proof. But I'm happy to hear
these stories and meet with people and just

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listen to them. Would you attend
any other like for instances an experiencers conference.

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I'm right in my neighborhood up in
Portland, Maine. This September.

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Would you ever consider attending one of
those? I would? I mean,

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I know there are a lot of
these conferences. There's the mouf On conference

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that you know every year. There
are a lot of groups meeting, and

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the hard part is, you know, to keep up with all of it.

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And as you know, there's also
it is a kind of a mixed

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bag. I mean, there's some
groups are more credible than others, and

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one I think has to be careful
to, you know, focus I have

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to be careful for was my effort
on the more reliable rewarding of the conferences

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00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,519
or so, because there's so many
of them. But for example, I

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talked in my article about the famous
abduction conference at MIT that took place in

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00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:15,119
the nineties. It was extraordinary put
on by David Jacobs and David Pritchard,

335
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:22,039
and MIT was the shall we say, reluctant host. It did open its

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doors to this very prestigious, high
level conference where a lot of papers were

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presented and the issue was looked at
from various perspectives. So that became its

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00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,279
own book by CCB. Bryan,
the great writer who wrote Friendly Fire,

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00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:42,319
he wrote a book Close Encounters of
the Fourth Kind, just about that conference.

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I wish I had attended that Prince
at Harvard, at the Harvard Divinity

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School. Not open to outsiders,
but a conference of a lot of professionals,

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00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:59,720
including Mac, to look at this
problem and issue and see what the

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00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,960
make of it. So, yes, there are conferences I think that are

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00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:07,480
very worth attending. You mentioned briefly
a book. Do you have something?

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Do you have something in mind?
Do I've been trying for the longest time

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00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:18,839
to to sell a book on John
Mac. It has not been easy because

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00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:26,680
of the mindset that we were talking
about. There's a lot of hostility I

348
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,200
would say more than skepticism, hostility
in the publishing community. Even though books

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00:30:30,279 --> 00:30:36,799
keep coming out about you know,
UFOs and abduction and movies. For sure,

350
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:47,039
the mainstream publishing community is quite skeptical
or hostile, and Mac was not

351
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,599
seen as enough of a figured to
anchor a book. So I've had a

352
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,039
lot of difficulties selling it as an
idea. I think in the end I'll

353
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prevail. I have some interest now, I think I know where I'm going

354
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,559
on it, and I think the
Vanity Fair article really helped show the interest.

355
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,240
But it has not been easy.
I bet we're getting near the end

356
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:14,119
of the show here, have you
had any of these type of experiences or

357
00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:18,799
your family that you're aware of.
No, I've really searched my memory because

358
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:22,319
a lot of these experiences are deeply
buried, as you know, and often

359
00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:27,119
come out only in connection with something
else. But I can't say i've ever

360
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:34,599
I have I've never seen a UFO
that I can remember, and I'm glad

361
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,839
I have not had these troubling experiences
because I know how people suffer. As

362
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,640
you know, they tend to occur
in families. So if you're grandparents and

363
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:48,799
parents have had abduction type experiences,
you are more likely too, and that

364
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,240
has not been a pattern of my
family. It tends to happen early in

365
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:57,680
life, not late in life.
So it's as if these beings or whatever

366
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,079
they are, are following people from
generations, which might be some kind of

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00:32:02,119 --> 00:32:06,279
study, but it does seem to
be. That seems to be the pattern.

368
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:08,880
So in my case, No,
And as I say, from what

369
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:16,880
I've seen about the deeply traumatic effects, I can't say I'm sorry I have

370
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,480
not been singled out or had these
experiences because they're very, very difficult.

371
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:30,839
I've been rereading Whitley Strieber's book and
how he was tortured by his experiences.

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They're very trouble, you know.
The outs and skeptics are always trying to

373
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:44,119
make a link between these experiences and
mental illness. Is to the extent these

374
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,519
people are mentally disturbed, it's what's
happened to them as a result of their

375
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:54,279
experiences. They're not mentally disturbed and
conjuring up these experiences. They're perfectly normal

376
00:32:54,319 --> 00:33:01,079
people until they encounter these inexplicable events, and then they're thrown off center.

377
00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:07,079
As you would, Mac found that
many people hoped to be told that they

378
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:13,240
were insane way they could deal with
what had happened to them. So when

379
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:16,519
he gave them the bad news that
they were not crazy, that as other

380
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:22,599
people have had these same experiences and
there were witnesses and something had happened to

381
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:28,359
them in some dimension, they were
even more troubled because they lacked any system

382
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,359
for processing that information. Well,
sure is a mysterious phenomenon. It is,

383
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,559
and that's the thing it'll I think
it will remain mysterious for a long

384
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,960
time to come. I'm very pessimistic
that we're close to a solution. I

385
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,240
think it's just something we're going to
have to keep studying. That's right,

386
00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:49,240
Ralph, you've been amazing. I'm
so glad that you've written this article,

387
00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:52,119
and I hope to see your name
in print a number of times in the

388
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,960
future about this well, thank you
so much for having me. It's a

389
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,000
great pleasure. Yes, all right, that was back in May up thirteen,

390
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:06,039
and this is July twenty ninth,
twenty nineteen. And yes we did

391
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:09,079
see his name in print again,
and that was the New York Times article

392
00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:15,199
of course, with Leslie Kane back
in December of twenty seventeen. So we're

393
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,159
going to be back next week with
a great guest, Rizwan Verke. We're

394
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:24,840
going to be talking about entrepreneurial ship
and technology, UFOs and a lot more.

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Thanks for listening everyone, and remember
to keep your eyes to the sky. Att