WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.960 The o' chile effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot com and listeners like 2 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:17.519 you Yeah, Yeah, Yeah Odio February one, twenty twenty four, allegedly 3 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.079 according to that thing we call a calendar, and I'm glad I didn't trip 4 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:23.719 over that and say the wrong numbers. This is the o'celly effect. And 5 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:27.199 it is Thor's day now. I haven't done a lot of live broadcasts this 6 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:32.439 week, but we have been re releasing some of the JFK Myths episodes. 7 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:36.159 I think five or six so far have gone out. We're not going to 8 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.679 re release all of them, but that is due to the high demand, 9 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:45.359 the high request level of please bring back the JFK Myths episodes. And it 10 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:48.799 so happens two of the people that were involved with some of those, the 11 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:53.079 main guy involved with them is with me tonight, Carmine Savastano. Of course 12 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:57.159 Tpaak Two Princes and a King. That's the name of his book, Two 13 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:03.240 Princes and a King about three assassinations during the nineteen sixties. But Tpaak or 14 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:07.120 tpok dot com, that would be the website where Carmine writes his articles, 15 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:11.879 has an evidence collection, a vault of all sorts, of interesting things, 16 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:15.120 and by the way, some visual stuff, not exactly you know, the 17 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:19.599 top of the line flashy visual stuff, but a lot of interesting visual things 18 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.879 that are not online elsewhere, like I don't know, pictures to go with 19 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.719 some of the file names that we've read about for many, many years. 20 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.879 Stuff like that. He's worked on the Kryptonyms project over at Mary Farrow Foundation, 21 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:36.640 presented at Lancer. If you know my show at some point, if 22 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:40.560 it's not just in the past few months, you know, Carmin Savastano and 23 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:45.359 yeah, I hear you. We're gonna redo, not redo. Actually we're 24 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:53.760 going to continue the jfk Assassination Myths series very soon. So tonight is sort 25 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.079 of an appetizer y later on kind of has to be because you know, 26 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:05.359 sixteen episodes wasn't enough to cover it all, okay, even with our special 27 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.840 guests. And the last one I just released was one that you know, 28 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:13.560 I got mixed feelings about because good to hear from Sherry Feaster again, despite 29 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:15.639 the fact that she's no longer with us. But that was one of the 30 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:20.120 best ones in my mind, simply because we had somebody who was, you 31 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.479 know, an absolute expert, somebody who could testify in court regarding the particular 32 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:29.479 area she covered on the assassination. And you know she used the word myths 33 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.439 in the subtitle of her book, just saying, you know, Enemy of 34 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:36.800 the Truth is Sherry Feaster's book. I advise that the links are there with 35 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.800 the show notes on the podcast, which has now been re released, and 36 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:44.879 I don't think it is publicly available anywhere else on the internet, although I 37 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:49.479 did sneaky put up a YouTube channel again guys, So anyway, it's out 38 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:52.039 there, you guys can get it. And if you can't find it, 39 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.759 just go to my feed. It is there on the front page at ocelli 40 00:02:54.840 --> 00:03:00.319 dot com under re release along with all the other podcasts. But time another 41 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.240 integral part of the show you just heard from Carmine. But let's see, 42 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:07.560 I did give your website, I did give your book name, Yes I 43 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:10.039 did. But another integral part of the show that you hear about in the 44 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:15.800 first few seconds of every show on the o'celly effect set is guess who Mike 45 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:20.960 Swanson, the guy behind Wallstreet Window dot com be in the no go to 46 00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.800 Wallstreet Window dot com. Now activity has changed over there and the face of 47 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:29.319 the website has changed and I'll tell you it's been improvement, improvement, improvement. 48 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.960 We'll find out some stuff about maybe what's coming up on Wallstreet Window dot 49 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:38.400 Com. It's not just about Wall Street definitely covers geopolitical stuff, local issues, 50 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:44.439 depending on what local means to you, and a variety of interesting things, 51 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.120 original articles and re releases of articles, et cetera, et cetera. 52 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:52.919 In fact, I've even released an article or to off of Wallstreet Window dot 53 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:58.000 com as a mirror, And this week there's going to be a special combination 54 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:02.639 platter of articles coming up, along with the fact that I'm also releasing the 55 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.719 archives. But I'll get to that later. Mike Swanson, the guy behind 56 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.240 Wall Street Window dot com, the author of the War State, highly recommended 57 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:15.360 book Says Me and Why the Vietnam War. Now, that's just two of 58 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:19.519 the many books that Mike has written. But in all brutal honesty, I 59 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:23.920 didn't read his financial books. He's got books out there about money. He's 60 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:28.000 got a book about Danville, Virginia. There is something that he kind of 61 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.560 put together with him and his dad, a little ebook out there regarding certain 62 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.959 histories. Things like this. Check out Mike Swanson's writing because it's always well 63 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:43.040 done, It's extremely relatable. The guy takes complex things and makes them extremely 64 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.759 accessible, especially when you're talking about geopolitics and history as it is being revised, 65 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:54.519 rewritten, and well possibly understood as we go forward. That's why I 66 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:59.560 recommend The War State and will recommend the upcoming books that'll go along with Why 67 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.720 the Vietnam War, which is only the first of three planned volumes on that 68 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:09.199 particular conflict. Anyways, all of that altogether, and you can see the 69 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:13.920 Red Book with Ike on the front cover on the sidebarbochelley dot Com. Again, 70 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:16.480 I recommend him not just because he's part of the sponsorship here, but 71 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:21.600 because he's a damn solid author, and I loved hearing from people at Lancer 72 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:25.839 when he presented that they had the same idea. I love how you take 73 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:29.600 ideas that are kind of a little confusing out there, difficult to understand, 74 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:34.240 and make them easily understood. That's Mike's best talent as a writer, in 75 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:39.079 my opinion. Also not a bad researcher. Hell of a nice guy as 76 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.160 well. Mike Swanson, how you doing tonight? All doing good? It's 77 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:45.720 great to talk with you and Carman and a lot to talk about a lot 78 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:51.800 of interest in the assassination and new podcasts coming out kindling that interest. And 79 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:58.399 on the Wall Street Windo website this week I got an article really it's a 80 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:04.240 video myself out this week's Fed Reserve meeting and how it might impact investors. 81 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:10.160 A lot of stuff about gold. But I also got one of the articles 82 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:18.040 Carman has just put out about how the government officials destroyed some of the JFK 83 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:24.920 files a couple of decades ago. And it's pretty shocking stuff. Well, 84 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.399 isn't that you know? And and now some people would say yawn, Mike, 85 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.279 right, because we already know they destroy stuff. Yeah, of course 86 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.399 you do. But here's the thing. There are outlandish claims constantly made. 87 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:41.360 See I'm I'm drawing back to that myths. Uh you know that that that 88 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:46.240 myths efficacy coming up real soon here that that that vibe that needs to come 89 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:50.360 out of the myths shows again. Sorry, I was just speaking out loud 90 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:55.360 about thoughts bouncing around in my head, Mike. The thing is people often 91 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:59.800 make these outlandish statements, right, and some people want to be dismissive and 92 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.279 well, why should I care about the documents or what was destroyed? Or 93 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:08.560 whatever, because they destroyed everything already. And they say that, and then 94 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.120 the next thing, you know is we'll turn up. And it does take 95 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:13.879 some work because it's not like they put it out in you know, plain 96 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:16.240 sight, and there's no smoking you know, where's the smoking gun? Where's 97 00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:20.519 the smoking gun? They either demand the smoking gun or claim that there can 98 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:26.600 possibly be nothing of value because the government eliminated everything already. Right, They've 99 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.839 destroyed everything, They've killed off everybody. Look at all the dead witnesses. 100 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:34.000 I do not endorse any of the things I just said. I'm making an 101 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.959 example out of this. They'll often say that anything that does exist is either 102 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:44.319 faked or has long since been destroyed, time and time again. Guess what 103 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.120 researchers, people that look into it, organize these things, follow it, 104 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:49.720 and indeed pressure the government, which, by the way, there's been a 105 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:54.800 little bit of news on that front. Reason well, in regards to what 106 00:07:54.800 --> 00:08:01.800 you're saying that, I've read something last week in Academic History Journal, and 107 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:11.639 it was a review of some academic history book that makes the argument that academic 108 00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:26.160 history is sort of dissolving in our society because what goes for history on the 109 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:35.200 internet, what on YouTube, podcasts, articles even is not the type of 110 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:43.320 history that academic historians produce, which is in archives and research and pretty much 111 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:52.480 dry reading. And what works according to this book, and I mean the 112 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.960 way, you know, the way this reviewer is reading, It's like this 113 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.799 is a they're saying, this is dire situation for academia. It was saying 114 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:09.559 that what works on the internet is what attracts the algorithms, what attracts the 115 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:16.159 clicks. And you know, I've complained about that a lot when in all 116 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.399 sorts of topics, the stock market, how the financial niche has changed over 117 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:26.200 the years, but this is a perfect example of it too. This topic 118 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:37.080 of the Kenny assassination is complex and what is exciting for people? And you've 119 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:43.480 had many shows debucking different people in different myths, the gd Baker stories, 120 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:50.960 the you know, for example, is what is exciting are people that provide 121 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:58.559 quick solutions and promise to have all the answers when they don't even have any 122 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:03.799 evidence for what they're saying. Yeah, but it gets the attention and then 123 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.919 gets distributed and the good research, the real research, can get drowned out 124 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:15.320 by that. So the thing that academic academic people I was reading your complaining 125 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:20.240 about infects everything on the Internet, including this topic. Yeah see, now 126 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.360 here's here's look. I always like to take it down to the street level, 127 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.799 and I appreciate how you will boil things down in the most proper way 128 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.360 so that it can be consumed by somebody who is interested. Right, But 129 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.080 here's the reality that you know, these academics, as per usual, wake 130 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:46.000 up to several decades after something happens. When when the genre of literature emerged 131 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:54.639 that became a contemporary historical writing. Okay, when that emerged, when contemporary 132 00:10:54.720 --> 00:11:01.200 history had a literary place that didn't require seventy five years of the concept of 133 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.879 perspective the French word, right, that always required that seventy five years. 134 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:11.840 That whole concept went out the window when somebody wrote something called the Rise and 135 00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:16.480 Fall the Third Reich. This was a hugely popular thing. This is long 136 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.440 before you know, the interwebs were accessible by the common folk like you and 137 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:22.480 me. You know, the military had it in like the nineteen seventies at 138 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:26.960 least. But hey, let's not split hairs. Long before the internet became 139 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:35.120 a global influencer itself, this was already happening where people wanted accessible stuff and 140 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:41.000 obviously urban myth, the juicier topics, the fact that the Inquirer could keep 141 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:45.879 printing itself right, the fact that there was a play sport in society, 142 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.720 the fact that tell all books were being released, you know, maybe a 143 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:54.080 year or two after an event, back in those days when it wasn't all 144 00:11:54.080 --> 00:12:00.360 digital. This has always been a problem. We're common folk that have access 145 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:05.240 to whatever the facilities are of the day. Utilize it. However they utilize 146 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:09.960 it. Then historians have always had to go back, revise, reset, 147 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.720 and re educate. Look, here's the things we know now that we didn't 148 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.320 know then, different justifications for it. We were in war, this was 149 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.919 an ongoing investigation. Whatever it might be. This is not a new problem. 150 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.559 Okay. Even the people that still believed you should do certain things in 151 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.879 a first aid way, they were wrong. You know the differences they changed 152 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:39.320 the way that you're supposed to do CPR on people. If nobody knew about 153 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:41.519 it, all that, you know, all that happens is the people that 154 00:12:41.559 --> 00:12:46.360 are educated directly might learn about it. But the people in public who might 155 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:48.879 make an attempt, who might have been given the Red Cross treatment at some 156 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.039 point and went and gone to you know, the learning center locally to learn 157 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.639 how to do it so that people didn't drown in their pool or whatever. 158 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.519 They might have outdated information, They might have inaccurate information that at one time 159 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:05.919 was thought to be a great solution, that was thought to be accurate, 160 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.639 that was thought to be a proper understanding of something. History is no different. 161 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:16.320 History is no different than what it is you learn about somebody after they 162 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:18.360 die, the truth. You know, Oh my, I didn't realize Rock 163 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.679 Hudson was gay. Okay, doesn't matter if it's that, or if it's 164 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:30.600 a significant historical event. Later on people learn better, and now historians are 165 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.159 going, gee, it's the internet in our way. Well before it was 166 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.759 the fact that people irresponsibly published books. Before that, it was the Inquirer 167 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.440 was the thing. Before that, it was Oh my god, a talk 168 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:46.200 radio guy can get on the air and make wild and crazy statements about significant 169 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.960 political and historical events that are happening right now, and they might not be 170 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:56.480 accurate. They've complained all the way. Welcome to the party. Now I 171 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:58.440 say this, and it sounds almost strange coming out of my mouth, because 172 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:05.840 what is the premise of this show to be a countermeasure to the official mythology, 173 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.639 to be a countermeasure to the misunderstanding, to get clarity, to get 174 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.960 at real information, to get at you know, what do they always call 175 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.639 this, you know, the truth seeking media, the alternative media, whatever, 176 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:24.960 independent media. Now that and social media has become the irresponsible town crier, 177 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.919 except you're no longer confined to your town. You're no longer confined to 178 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:31.960 your urban myths. So we've been through a bit on this, Mike, 179 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.799 I would say, and it is significant, and indeed we're going to touch 180 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:41.840 on all of this tonight in a way. So I mean the academic arguments, 181 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:43.679 I mean, what are your thoughts on that, Mike, That really 182 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.759 they're complaining about something that has always been there in one form or another, 183 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:52.039 but now welcome to the Internet version of it. Am I right or wrong? 184 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:54.639 Or you think, God, Chuck, you're just you know, you're 185 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:56.519 off on a strange tangent here mentally, this is wrong? What do you 186 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:05.759 think, Mike? I mean both can be true. I mean that's the 187 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:13.799 Internet. Yeah. The responsible answer is there's nuance here right where some of 188 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.480 it is somewhat true but also somewhat not true. Because people can be informed 189 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.879 about things, certain things can't be hidden as easily. Number one, but 190 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.879 number two, yes, there is a whole lot of space for people to 191 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:30.039 spin minute. People are getting dubber and dubber all the time, and that's 192 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.399 it is making it dumber. I tell you that. I'll give you an 193 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.240 example. I wanted Mike to say it. Carmine. I'm sorry, go 194 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.879 ahead, Mike. I mean, I forgive about the history stuff, but 195 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.600 the stock market. When I got into the stock market, you know, 196 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:52.200 I went to the bars Noble and bought like twenty books and went read up 197 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:56.840 and they're in magazines and so forth, and I still have some of these. 198 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.559 I had these books later on right, and twenty twenty comes around, 199 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:07.639 twenty years later, and I know twelve people that got into stock trading on 200 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.000 robin Hood and they didn't read a single book, and they just get on 201 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:17.120 a message board and watch YouTube videos and they didn't know what they were doing. 202 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.240 And I told them, go read here's one book, go read it. 203 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.720 None of them want to read it. These people didn't even know what 204 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:30.200 bonds were. I mean, they have no idea of anything, and they're 205 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:36.919 just seeing people tell them buy this crypto coin or buy this stock, and 206 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:41.240 you're going to get rich, and that was enough for them to act. 207 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:48.919 That's all they needed to hear. And with a culture that's almost illiterate, 208 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:53.120 going on the Internet and hearing some guy talking with Kenny assassination and say, 209 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.120 you know, they know who did it. Here's four or five gunmen. 210 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.559 That's enough to make them happen. Yep. And here's the thing, it's 211 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.799 the answer they want. It doesn't matter that the information is outdated not sourced. 212 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:11.799 It's irrelevant because just like in the monetary business, right, some of 213 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:15.279 that information you got back then is still valuable. Some of it is outdated, 214 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.720 but you would not know that because people that say, well, I 215 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.319 do my research. That to me is funny in and of itself, because 216 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.079 it doesn't matter if we're talking about money or the Kennedy assassination or whether you 217 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.799 should take an aspirin or not. Here's the fun part. There are people 218 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:36.440 that think research can all be done just by going to Google. Yah, 219 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.519 and that's it. And that's if you're lucky they're going to Google. They 220 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.400 might skip that and say, well, forget that, I'd rather go to 221 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.160 YouTube. And people use the phrase YouTube university, which, by the way, 222 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.119 it's a very valuable resource. If you want to figure out how to 223 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.119 fix a lamp, or if you want to figure out how to you know, 224 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.400 actually change your own oil and you have no idea about it, you 225 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.000 can find a step by step video on YouTube. Or to fix your computer, 226 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.720 or you know, or to do drywall. You know, practical things 227 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.599 that maybe is something that you would have to hire somebody to do, you 228 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.160 can learn all by yourself. Whether it's that or playing a guitar, or 229 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:21.039 it's you know, where to find certain things on the planet, you can 230 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:26.440 turn to a tool online. Tech and technical abilities are no longer something that 231 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.519 you have to you know, scratch and sniff and go find for yourself. 232 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.839 Okay, you can just go pick up some of the shortcuts and get it 233 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:40.000 done. That's an advancement that some people take advantage of. But to actually 234 00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:44.960 research a topic, to delve into it. If you're relying on only the 235 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:48.720 things that the search engine is going to bring to the top, you've already 236 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:59.359 surrendered a whole lot of your critical thought process to Google. I'm not kidding. 237 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:02.680 That's what they do. There are people that call themselves researchers that all 238 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:08.359 they're able to do is navigate things online and find links. Now, I'm 239 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.000 not saying that links aren't valuable. What I'm saying is it's a one dimensional 240 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:18.519 approach. It's like calling yourself a versatile, all around artist of visual arts 241 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.799 when meanwhile, you know how to sketch with a pencil. Do you know 242 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:23.960 how to work with clay? Do you know how to work with paint? 243 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.200 Do you know how to work with dye? Do you know how to work 244 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:33.160 with stone? Do you know how to do anything else artistic? But you 245 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.759 call yourself a diverse artist because you know how to sketch cartoons. I don't 246 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.960 refer to myself as an artist. I can sketch a decent cartoon every now 247 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.759 and then. I've sketched one of both you and Carmine. Actually, Mike, 248 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.319 I've made little cartoon images of you guys. I mean, look, 249 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:53.640 they're not perfect or anything. But I don't say I'm a cartoonist or I'm 250 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:59.640 a visual artist based on that. I've done a few sketches. But that's 251 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.720 what people who call themselves researchers that go online and search. I'm just presenting 252 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:08.039 this as a window into You're not going through the whole process or doing this 253 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:14.160 all the way through are you. What do you think, Mike, Well, 254 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:18.640 today there's a lot of people that call themselves artists because they go to 255 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:23.200 a website and it says ai R and they get something made and then they 256 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:30.119 copy and paste it. Sure, well, I think one of the sorry, 257 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.400 go ahead, go ahead, cab, I just quickly want to interject. 258 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.359 I think that a lot of what you guys are saying is true, 259 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.960 but it's the scope that people couldn't anticipate as where in the past we had 260 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.160 a National Inquirer, there was a limited amount of nonsense that could be generated, 261 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.480 and now it's an endless amount and it's on every subject. And there 262 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.960 are people that are claiming to be specialists and you know, experts. That's 263 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.759 always a great one for me. If someone starts out with claiming to be 264 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.839 an expert, they're probably not. The experts don't have to claim it. 265 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.519 You can just tell who's an expert. I'll shut up in a second. 266 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:15.200 That's when the National Choir. I met their reporter, the man that wrote 267 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:21.160 and broke a lot of their stories, like the bat Boy, all that 268 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:27.079 stuff, right, And I met him in a bar in the Bahamas and 269 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:34.640 I asked him, how did you discover those stories. Yeah, and he 270 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.440 said he'd go in the bar and get drunk and then he'd sit down and 271 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:47.559 write. He used his imagination. At least he did that, was he 272 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:52.200 Now there's an artist, you know, sectional artists. Your medium, you 273 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:57.079 know, your medium is bullshit, but it's still it's a medium if you 274 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.440 go well and at least and it's the inquirer. So, I mean back 275 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:07.079 then there was the is that it was all rush. I got mixed up. 276 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.880 It is a Weekly World next week. I got the two publications mixed 277 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:14.359 up. No, but it's fine. It's the same thing. Look, 278 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.839 it's it's the same genre. And in fact, the Weekly World News was 279 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:21.920 a much more outlandish. It still survives today as some sort of website. 280 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:26.599 Actually, but of course everything survives as a website. I mean, they 281 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.440 don't make certain cookies anymore. It's now a website, which, by the 282 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.759 way, I have a old cookie story on hydrox cookies. But anyway, 283 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.400 I'm not going to go into that right now. The thing is, I 284 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:38.640 just wanted to say, what would I think that? So you have the 285 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.799 unlimited amount of nonsense that's possible. You have people that are claiming to be 286 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.200 experts, who surely are not experts and who haven't done the work to actually 287 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:49.720 figure out what's going on. I have told my friends this and this is 288 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.920 my what I'd like to consider this portion of history is we have not entered 289 00:22:53.920 --> 00:23:00.279 the unenlightenment, the opposite of the prior enlightenment of the seventeen hundreds, where 290 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:04.839 people are now growing dumber, but the technology is getting better. So like 291 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.039 we have a and it's frightening. There was that was ritten article the other 292 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.599 day in a weapons system that Britain's developed called Dragonfire, and it's a laser 293 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:15.960 and I mean laser beams. They can fire a laser beam and just chop 294 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.119 people into pieces. So we have laser technology at the same time we have 295 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:27.319 people eating deep with toothpicks. So right, I mean literally, that's where 296 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:32.920 we are. Literally, we live in a world where instantaneous communication. Right, 297 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:36.359 you don't have to go through the trouble of finding people you know so 298 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:40.759 much developing a way to decrypt and find a phone number. You don't have 299 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.200 to find addresses by asking around and getting directions, none of that anymore. 300 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.119 You can navigate the majority of the populated planet with ease. Okay, you 301 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:56.039 can get in contact with almost anybody on any other part of this planet instantly. 302 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.160 Okay. You don't have to weigh celebrities, which was almost possible just 303 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.839 a few. Yeah. Literally, you can theoretically get the attention of anybody 304 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.359 in the world, from the president, okay, to the guy who showed 305 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.160 up world leaders to world leaders, to the guy who showed up on a 306 00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:17.319 you know, an episode of The Office twenty years ago and happened to be 307 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.160 a side character. Once you can find that guy, you can find your 308 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:25.599 high school sweetheart that you haven't seen in thirty years, no problem, you 309 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:30.920 can do that instantaneously. You can access information, okay. The Warrant Commission 310 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.920 Report in and of itself one of those things we often have to reference discuss, 311 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:38.880 et cetera. The twenty six volumes, and indeed twenty seven because there 312 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:42.960 was the report, also twenty seven volumes of this thing. Big books, 313 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.640 okay, big like as in, I know, Grandpa, we don't know 314 00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:52.119 what an encyclopedia is anymore, but used to be something called an encyclopedia anyway, 315 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:57.640 a practically freestanding encyclopedia of information produced by the government printing Office, which 316 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.279 you would have had to buy one volume at a time, or you would 317 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.920 have had to go and get and acquire and in decades nowadays, if you 318 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.480 want to set of them, By the way, I can't find one for 319 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.000 less than three grand. And I would still love to have one, if 320 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.200 for nothing else but to be a prop behind me on videos. But the 321 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.240 point is that that information which you had to go out of your way to 322 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.279 go get or sit down at a local I know, here's another weird word 323 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.920 library and actually interact with a physical piece of paper, a cupboard and cardboard 324 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:33.119 book, okay, which had thousands upon thousands of words all committed to the 325 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.839 page via ink Okay. You had to deal with that, and it took 326 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:44.359 some time, it took some effort. You can have that instantaneously downloaded, 327 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.279 in fact, faster than you can say the President's Commission on the Assassination before 328 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.680 you even finish the proper title. Twenty seven volumes can be on your desktop 329 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:56.720 right now. If you want them, I can send them to you. 330 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:03.799 But anyway, there it is. But never been less success. And that's 331 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.480 the thing. Despite all of the access, remember that big word when they 332 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:12.440 said everybody has access to great health care. Sure they do. You have 333 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:18.720 access to the world's knowledge. You have access to communication with nearly anyone on 334 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.920 the planet who is within the vicinity of an electronic device. And guess what 335 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.480 if you don't use it. Remember the old expression, if you don't use 336 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:29.279 it, you lose it. Use it or lose it. Right, you 337 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.039 don't use it, you're not gonna lose it. But you're also going to 338 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:37.279 gain nothing. And so people are gaining less with having access to everything. 339 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.440 You know, like I say, with the whole access to and you know, 340 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.880 people access to the great You have access to the greatest healthcare system on 341 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.640 the planet in America. You have access to it. I also have access 342 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:53.839 to billions upon billions of dollars. It doesn't mean I'm gonna get to actually 343 00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:59.319 use them, whether I want to or not. But outside of that, 344 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.759 the things that I do have free access to, if I don't take advantage 345 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.319 of them, what's the point anyway? Real information is out there, real 346 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.400 work is being done, real things are being published, but now it drowns 347 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:17.559 in a sea of the ease of reproduction, the ease of distribution, the 348 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.799 ease of communication. And indeed, there are people like and now I'm going 349 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:27.440 to drop a name, John Hankey, who made very entertaining videos regarding the 350 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:34.000 Kennedy assassination and the death of JFK Jr. Very entertaining stuff. He did 351 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.039 another entertaining one on nine to eleven, another entertaining one on the dangers of 352 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:45.440 meth and how they are destroying a significant portion of American culture, that meth 353 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.400 is a destructive force in and of itself. Probably people listening to me right 354 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.039 now are even deeply steeped in the conspiracy world. They're not aware that he 355 00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:57.920 ever made that video, and it's probably the one that's loaded with the most 356 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:03.079 accurate information. His JFK stuff, while entertaining, while I catching, while 357 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:08.960 constructed in an artistically sound way, are loaded with a bunch of crap which 358 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:17.519 features George hw Bush was actually present in Dealey Plaza according to him, and 359 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.799 was part of the assassination team according to him in some way or other. 360 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.200 Not here to split hairs on it, but been over that which, by 361 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.240 the way, I had a weird encounter with Russ Baker at Lancer this year. 362 00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:32.240 He wasn't part of answer. He showed up and it was a weird 363 00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:37.640 little Neither one of us said anything, but we had an exchange and we 364 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.440 shook hands. But anyway, I'm going to tell that story, probably on 365 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.200 Friday, because I haven't told that one. Anyways, I want to get 366 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.799 to the subject matter, because why does all this matter? Well, here's 367 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.119 the thing. First off, Carmine passed me an article which I think is 368 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.680 a great interest, and we're not going to cover it in depth at all. 369 00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:57.440 I just want to mention it just to give you an idea of some 370 00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:03.039 of the real world information and that, you know, what people are attracted 371 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:04.279 to a whole lot of this other mess that's out there, you know, 372 00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:08.440 the love stories and so on and so forth, whether it's Jackie was actually 373 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:15.640 screwing RFK or it's Judy Baker had a relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald for the 374 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.559 time that she was at that temp company, and over the course of the 375 00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:21.559 summer got to know David very well enough to write five hundred pages on a 376 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:26.079 guy she knew for a couple of months. Yeah, all of that, 377 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:32.359 which sounds attractive because it's salacious, it's juicy, it's interesting, it's controversial, 378 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.039 it's a little greasy, little grimy. Okay, fine and dandy, 379 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.440 but you know, real world stuff is greasy, grimy, and confusing enough 380 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:47.000 without adding fan fiction. Carmen passed me this article, which was from Business 381 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:51.119 Insider dot com, and I'm just gonna give you if you guys don't mind, 382 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:55.680 just the headline if you will, and maybe, oh, there's actually 383 00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:59.119 some subheadlines, so I'll give you those as well. Take me less than 384 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.599 thirty seconds, probably, And here's the headline from the Business Insider. This 385 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:08.480 was published, let's see on the twenty ninth of January. DOJ charged an 386 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:15.680 Iranian operative with hiring Hell's Angels bikers for assassinations in the US. This is 387 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:19.680 not from the onion folks. Once again, three subheadlines here the bullet points 388 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:22.920 with the article, and that's all I'm gonna do. I'm gonna drop the 389 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.079 link in the live chatroom at o'celli dot com and attach it to this show's 390 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.920 notes. An Iranian operative has been charged with hiring Hell's Angels four assassinations in 391 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.759 the US. DJ says bullet point number two, the suspects allegedly conspired to 392 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:44.240 hire biker group members to murder two Maryland residents. Bullet point number three, 393 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:51.599 DOJ said the Iranian agent employs his network to target Iranian dissonance and activists. 394 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.599 Now this on the backdrop of current other news headlines regarding the idea that there 395 00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:03.400 may be potentially a com inflict directly militarily with the US military in Iran, 396 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.759 that Iran is indeed behind the attacks which have occurred on the nation state of 397 00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:12.839 Israel. Right, they are backing everybody. They're funding terrorism, They fund 398 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.240 acts of terror all over the planet. They are players in the Middle East 399 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.720 conflict, soup to nuts, Iran is involved. They are a great target, 400 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:25.920 they are a threat. They think of us as the great Satan, 401 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:33.160 on and on and on. And meanwhile, a real world thing drops here, 402 00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:37.960 where what a shock. Somebody who seems to be doing intelligence type work 403 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:44.240 might have attempted to hire some organized criminals to get some organized crime done. 404 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.960 Because at the end of the day, an assassination is what something that needs 405 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.079 to be organized, something that needs to be you know, set up, 406 00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:55.359 and if it's if it matters enough to make sure that somebody's dead, and 407 00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:57.759 it is an assassination, not just you know, a crime of passion, 408 00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:04.680 a murder of circumstance generally requires some organizational skills, and why not turn to 409 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.799 an organized criminal just like it tells you to in the Assassination Guide that was 410 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:19.559 printed by Central Intelligence Agency in the nineteen fifties. It appears that not much 411 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:24.319 has changed. Funny how that all works. Yeah, it's almost a Castro 412 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:29.759 plot. Yeah it's not quite, not quite, but it's almost a castro 413 00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:32.640 esque plot. Nobody get the criminals to take out the person you wanta. 414 00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:37.640 And this actually reminds me two of a show we did about the kgbus to 415 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:43.880 do this too. This is when they hired the two assassins to take out 416 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.200 Russian dissidents. Oh yeah, that's a long countries. I mean, we 417 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:51.000 could go on and on. We could talk about, you know, Marita 418 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:53.279 Lorenz And by the way, I am in contact with her daughter, and 419 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.400 I think I might try and bring her on the show this month or so 420 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:02.839 because she has some interesting stories to talk about. Regarding a character named Frank 421 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:07.160 Sturgis, Okay, there's a side note and a tease. But you know, 422 00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:08.880 when I think about the odd plots, right, they were gonna give 423 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:15.799 him, and even the David Fairy style character that you you hear played by 424 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.640 Joe Peshy, which is not relatable to the real David Fairy. Satellites and 425 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.960 everything, just the inside note there here's the funny part, you know, 426 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:29.880 when he's rant and raving and talking about the exploding cigars make his beard fall 427 00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:32.400 out, you know. And and in real life, by the way, 428 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.759 there was a whole thing about like covering a wet suit on the inside with 429 00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:39.359 a whole bunch of poison so that Fidel would put it on and die, 430 00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.400 you know, stuff like that, and they wanted to poison him. And 431 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.200 no, I'm not relating to the alleged cancer plot and that all ridiculous. 432 00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.440 No, no, no, this is al Cia documented. That's talking about 433 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:55.920 with explosives. Yeah, like you said, batcha line, them lining the 434 00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.880 inside the suit exploding. Well, the poison pen, the poison pens. 435 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:06.920 But the mystery of intelligence and Iran has learned nothing because it's like they're reading 436 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:08.280 these documents and like, oh, let's try that. And again, it's 437 00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:12.440 not just about American castro. I can think back to you and I talking 438 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.480 about, you know, the assassination of Pakistan's leader, right oh yeah, 439 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:22.480 yeah, one of the few women to yeah, Benzer buddo. You know, 440 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.119 we could go back to that, We could go back to that whole 441 00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:30.920 thing we did on the Kim family in North Korea. Yeah, oh yeah, 442 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.079 well he was totally I mean like his uncle right, or I used 443 00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:38.079 a forty calor a fifty klan. Yeah, he didn't really go through the 444 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.679 trouble of like a cannon, won't it Yeah? Yeah shot, yeah, 445 00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.639 basically blast them to pieces. And then there was somebody in Central American and 446 00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.400 I can't remember who, and it was just pretty much like just dumped the 447 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:53.400 poison on his food. I forget who it was, but it was like 448 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:57.679 maybe it was Ayende. Oh no, no, you know what it was 449 00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.440 it was. It might have been well, that might have been that one 450 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.119 too. But also in the Congo when they were trying to take out La 451 00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.079 Mumba, they were gonna put a poison in this toothpaste. Yeah, and 452 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.800 they just tried, like, you know what, we got five six different 453 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.719 ideas for here, how to kill him. You know what we'll do, 454 00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.559 put them all in motion and also try and just stick him in dangerous way 455 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:21.000 and something will go. He'll he'll be gone one way or another. It's 456 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.679 like, you know, let's let's shuffle the cards and see which one we 457 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.320 draw on whichever way it goes, I mean, dead is dead, and 458 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.079 yeah, indeed, stuff like this happens. And it's not always just r 459 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:38.440 CIA or just the AM I. Oh, anybody who's gotten intelligence organization that 460 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:45.960 operates, you know, extra legally, extra judiciously, you know, outside 461 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:49.559 of the confines of what's supposed to be legally acceptable, whether it's by their 462 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:53.920 own nation states laws or international law. Irrelevant point is they're out. There 463 00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:59.360 is no There is no Vienna Convention sub section for assassination, right, It's 464 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.440 not like, okay, so that's the agreement between all the legitimate governments. 465 00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:06.360 Now here's the under the table agreement. No, there is none. It's 466 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:08.280 just all bets are off and we do what we gotta do. And by 467 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:14.480 the way, plausible deniability anyway, I'm just pointing out that, you know, 468 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:19.119 hello, it's twenty twenty four and here we go. Here's some more. 469 00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:22.599 So that's the way it is. And yeah, we're gonna get into 470 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:27.840 the evidence destruction. But Mike, is there anything else that you think we 471 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:30.320 ought to set this table with because I think we've had a little fun and 472 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:36.599 given people some general points to consider. I think the academic pushback against you 473 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.119 know, garbage, you know, garbage in, garbage out as far as 474 00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:44.400 educating people makes sense, but too little, too late in my mind, 475 00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:51.599 because again, they really didn't care when people that were outside of their academic 476 00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:57.400 inner circles wanted to offer them academically sound material. For the most part. 477 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.840 I mean it's loosened up a little bit in the past decade or so, 478 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.599 but in reality, when you and I started researching this, and I don't 479 00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.280 mean searching the internet alone, but I do mean actually researching this, you 480 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:12.199 know, going acquiring books, actually talking to people, looking at and trying 481 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:19.239 to decipher and learning how to decipher things like documentation, maybe even exploring the 482 00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.920 world of the you know, medicine a bit so that you could understand why 483 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:29.159 a forensic examiner might say this or that, you know, from an educational 484 00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:31.800 standpoint, you know, doing things like that, actually getting a hold of 485 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.440 copies of X rays, turning around and finding out what an X ray should 486 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.239 look like, you know, things like that. Before we started doing that, 487 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:47.440 there was indeed plenty of this hand ringing regarding we don't want to accept 488 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.239 any of this stuff that's coming from these people. It doesn't matter. I 489 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:53.920 mean they used to say, look, this guy's a former police officer, 490 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:59.159 so he knows about how criminal investigation goes. This guy's a lawyer, they 491 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:02.360 understand the law. Oh they're presenting to you a solid legal argument about why 492 00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:07.119 this is this or why this isn't that, et cetera, et cetera, 493 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:12.760 et cetera, And even battles going back and forth like the Booglio ci versus 494 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.760 Spence nonsense that they put on television, you know, mock trials. Let's 495 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.480 see what happens if we actually tried to enter things into evidence. Cyrah Weck 496 00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:22.320 coming out saying, look, I'm a doctor, I study dead people. 497 00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:27.159 This is the way it works. All that stuff has been going on for 498 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:32.440 a long time in academia was resistant to sound information, and in my mind 499 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:40.400 they are actually accessories after the fact regarding the idea that information that contradicted the 500 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:46.159 official story was often shut down absolutely across the board, and it didn't matter 501 00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:51.719 if the information was sound, well researched, actually sourced, et cetera. 502 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.800 An agree on one a little bit on what you're saying. One like a 503 00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:02.480 nuance to it, and that is that the big uloses and the resistance that 504 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:09.920 that you're talking about, the attacks really attacks on research, flat out lies 505 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:16.679 even cover you know it is uh that. I think that was really coming 506 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:23.639 from the mainstream media, especially the television networks, promoting all that stuff for 507 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:30.079 decades. But academia, in the sense of academic historians, I don't think 508 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:36.800 they really were doing that. I think what they were doing was just avoiding 509 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.960 the topic completely, like burying their heads in the sand. For the most 510 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:44.519 part, true when it comes to historians. But the sidelines is real fast 511 00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:51.239 again, this little sideline is as follows. Sociologists and psychologists were making statements 512 00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:55.400 political science people were making statements from academic you know, from academic you know, 513 00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:00.840 positions of authority and authenticity. We're saying, you know what, these 514 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:05.159 people are doing harm to the psychology of the country, These people are doing 515 00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:09.159 harm to America. In fact, there were certain points where people like Wesley 516 00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:15.480 Clark, right, the former general, was actually stating that people that you 517 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:23.480 know, studied and propagated conspiracy theories were literally equivalent to terrorists. And indeed, 518 00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.920 I don't know if you remember in twenty fourteen, only Wesley Clark was 519 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.880 out there making statements like, you know, we should really be able to 520 00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:35.400 round these people up the same way that we could during a time of war, 521 00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:40.599 because they need to be kept and isolated from the rest of society so 522 00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.599 as not to contaminate society. Like he was advocating for the idea that in 523 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:52.360 defense of America, these thought criminals needed to be stopped so they wouldn't infect 524 00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:58.000 more people. It was wild. Do you remember when he endorsed the whole, 525 00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:00.440 Like, you know, when people were really talking a lot about the 526 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:06.239 FEMA camps because Alex Jones had done that episode. I was right after nine 527 00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:09.159 to eleven. Well, no, this is ten years after nine to eleven, 528 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:14.239 ten years after and yeah, this is when the FEMA camps and the 529 00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:16.480 Jade Helm thing was starting to get track shot. Oh okay, yeah, 530 00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:20.920 And people were talking about what would happen if they started rounding us all up 531 00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:23.079 into camps. Would they do that to try and defend us from you know, 532 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:27.639 the terrorist cells from within and the people that are really dangerous. And 533 00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.920 Wesley Clark, you know, not currently in a government job as far as 534 00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.599 I knew at that time, but retired General Wesley Clark was out there saying, 535 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:40.039 you know what, these conspiracy theorists are dangerous like terrorists. They are 536 00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:44.840 the same, you know, They're like low level terrorists, and they need 537 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.320 to be dealt with. And the weird thing was we had former prime ministers 538 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:52.440 from the United Kingdom agreeing with them publicly in this weird sort of debate that 539 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:57.760 went on. And I know it was twenty fourteen because it was not long 540 00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:01.679 from when this show really got rolling live, So it's a crazy I don't 541 00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:05.760 even know if that still exists on the internet. Clyde Lewis actually went on 542 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:10.239 that night on his show and started playing Captain Picard, if you remember in 543 00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:15.559 the One Star Trek episode where Picard just turns around and finally does what the 544 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.079 audience had wanted for the past couple of years and says to Wesley, crusher, 545 00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:23.639 shut off Wesley. And he keeps replaying that while Clark is making this 546 00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:30.360 outlandish statement that basically says, if you were thinking against and he elaborated on 547 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.360 this, this wasn't like one sentence. If you're thinking against the government narrative, 548 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:40.400 if you were against the official story, you are dangerous like terrorists and 549 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:44.639 need to be dealt with exactly this way. And while he's making these statements, 550 00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:50.119 Clyde Lewis keeps interjecting Patrick Stewart going shut up Wesley, shut off Wesley, 551 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.000 I was cracking up at that, but taking very serious note of the 552 00:42:54.079 --> 00:43:00.079 idea that somebody was supposed to be respected military leader, somebody's supposed to be 553 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:05.719 a patriot who would absolutely be representative of those that wish to defend the United 554 00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:09.280 States, and all it stands for is out there advocating for maybe we should 555 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:15.679 round up and shut up people like me, you know, And I kind 556 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:17.880 of went, whoa, hang on here, because what happened to that thing 557 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:22.880 called freedom of speech and etc. Etc. And I realize there's limitations and 558 00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:27.480 I'm not here to have that to be but I'm just saying that you can 559 00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.360 devolve into that when it comes down to it. And again, I think 560 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:37.280 the responsibility for the fact that people were not solidly educated is because out of 561 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:45.239 hand, all avenues of academic legitimacy were partitioned off from people who were doing 562 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:49.000 legitimate work for decades and they were told, look, we don't want to 563 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.079 hear this. You know, there were certain people that you know, had 564 00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:55.199 academic jobs that were college professors and teachers and things like that. They would 565 00:43:55.239 --> 00:43:59.159 get told repeatedly, don't teach this stuff in the classroom. We read your 566 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.280 book, you know, stuff like that. And to me, they have 567 00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:09.519 nobody but themselves to blame for never bothering to help give any sort of constructive 568 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:17.440 guidance to legitimate material that was being generated outside of their business model, outside 569 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:22.440 of their particular subsect of society. If it didn't come from our academic hallways, 570 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:27.679 it's nothing. You know, I believe it's the Ivory Tower of people. 571 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.960 Call it the Ivory Tower approach. It's not legitimate. You know, 572 00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:32.960 Well, aren't you worried about people's rights? Well I would be, but 573 00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:38.679 those people aren't actually people, you know, that sort of attitude, and 574 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.119 that's what That's how I feel about it. So you know, when the 575 00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:46.280 academics complain that people are taking real information seriously, well neither did you for 576 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:51.400 decades and decades. So look back at your own house before you start telling 577 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.639 us how to put ours in order. But I do agree that all of 578 00:44:54.719 --> 00:45:00.000 us need to put check marks on whatever it is we're advocating here, because 579 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:04.320 we need to be responsible and careful about it. Anyways, I've almost chewed 580 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.239 up all the time I was gonna have with Mike Swanson and didn't even get 581 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:09.880 to Carmine's article here. But I want to give Carmine a chance to do 582 00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:13.880 that. Mike, what do you think should we let you go and then 583 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.239 I'll do kind of a second part here with Carmine and really really go through 584 00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:20.320 his article, or do you want to hang around a little bit? What 585 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:24.079 do you think your first plan sounds good? We'll keep you catching up again 586 00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:28.719 soon. Excellent? Am I to expect you in two weeks from now? 587 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:31.199 I'll be here. Yeah, I'll be here in two weeks. Or do 588 00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:36.559 you want to come back next week? Uh, I'll be here in two 589 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:38.360 weeks. That sounds good. Excellent. Well, I got this great rotation 590 00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:43.079 now because Larry is now doing Wednesdays, so we got lak at Hancock on 591 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:46.239 Wednesdays, Mike Swanson on Thursdays, and both of them going every other one 592 00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:51.079 here on the Ocelli effect. But I'm sorry we didn't get to all the 593 00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:52.880 stuff. Is there anything you want to drop here, by the way about 594 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:58.239 Carmine's article, or because I also want to touch on the Rob Reiner thing, 595 00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:00.400 do you want to do that on your way out the door? Maybe? 596 00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.519 Oh, we're good, I'll be here in two weeks. I was 597 00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:06.000 I was actually gonna say, if you don't mind me joining we can do 598 00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.239 the Rhiner stuff next time and then just focus on the article for a little 599 00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:12.039 while. It's just so it's not sure because if we go through everything, 600 00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.920 it's gonna and then that way you can contribute the stuff we were discussing earlier 601 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.599 about military intelligence. Ah, perfect, how does that sound? That sounds 602 00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:22.599 like a play it next time you're on the Ocelli Effect will be a dissecting 603 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:25.360 or at least partially well maybe you want to call it. It could be 604 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:30.280 a myth seventeen. Maybe not dissect well, I don't know. Maybe maybe 605 00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:34.039 it will turn into that. It could be something that is created in an 606 00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:37.440 impromptu or ad hoc faction fashion. Excuse me here, on the Ocelli Effect, 607 00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:43.840 we might create JFK Myths Episode seventeen in two weeks when Mike Swanson rejoins 608 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.280 us. If not, we're definitely gonna well, so basically, just hold 609 00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:50.639 fifteen of the seventeen references. We'll be bringing those back there you go. 610 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.360 So if we're not, if we're not dissecting Reiner's podcast, maybe we'll just 611 00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:00.880 be abusing a corpse because it is definitely dead on arrival and it is not 612 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:05.880 useful to anybody unless you want to bury it somewhere. That's up to you, 613 00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:08.119 you the listener. But yeah, we'll cover the Rob Reiner thing in 614 00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:13.440 two weeks with Mike Swatson and Carmine Sabastano. But in the meantime, we're 615 00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:16.280 gonna take a break here on the OTLI effect and get straight to Carmine's article 616 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:22.880 about that evidence destruction and some of the things that maybe those officials who are 617 00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:27.519 the powers that should or should not be depending on who you be. Guess 618 00:47:27.559 --> 00:47:30.760 what we're gonna be talking about some of their activity and what it actually means 619 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.559 as we continue on this Thursday Night stick around. We'll be right back with 620 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.960 carmin Savastano. But Mike, thanks for joining us, and I look forward 621 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.000 to doing that terrible stuff we're gonna have to do in two weeks. What 622 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:50.840 do you say, Oh, it's gonna be fun. It's definitely gonna have 623 00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:52.559 fun with it. And in the meantime be in the no go to Wall 624 00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:58.079 Street Window dot Com not only a proud sponsor of this show, but well 625 00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:00.360 I don't know if they're proud, but they are sponsors of the show, 626 00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:05.000 and uh, I do appreciate them and all the works by Mike Swanson again 627 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:07.760 The War State and Why the Vietnam War, which is the first in a 628 00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:14.440 series of three books related to that conflict, all authored by Michael Swanson. 629 00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:27.360 Stick Around the Ocelly if continues revelation through conversation, dot Com Radio Chili dot 630 00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:42.039 Com, Wallstream, Window dot Goal, Sewer the stock market, Wallstream, 631 00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:46.920 Window, dott Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough. 632 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:53.119 Maybe you're thinking about getting started wall Street, Windows, dot com dot Michael 633 00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:59.079 Swanson, the brilliant author of The War State, understood these trends professionally for 634 00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:04.880 many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wallstreamindow 635 00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:12.039 go there, now go there, now go there Now. The War State 636 00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:15.840 by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy 637 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:21.960 presidency in the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about 638 00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:25.239 the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had 639 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:30.840 been president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of 640 00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:34.920 the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War 641 00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:38.159 II, the United States was a continental republic in the decade that followed it 642 00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:44.239 became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade 643 00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:46.840 Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island armed with 644 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:52.280 nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their 645 00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:55.400 invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go 646 00:49:55.440 --> 00:50:00.360 to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson. Why and we'll show 647 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:05.840 you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information the War State dot 648 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:09.679 Com. Go ahead, call it about the day of assassination right, Well, 649 00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:14.000 what do you want to know? Dy Baker's wild claim? Oswald girlfriends 650 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:16.760 he knew Ruby and very handswer weapons. Really, I imagine I could claim 651 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:20.400 I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, 652 00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:23.199 Oswald on the building and I'm trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. 653 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.119 Come on, now, has a real effort on the day of hay assassination 654 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:32.159 claim. Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. 655 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:37.760 You'll get the results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes 656 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:42.760 her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well a 657 00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:46.360 different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words 658 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.880 from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at 659 00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:57.320 ki as jfk at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it actually 660 00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:05.239 dissects the many many fantastic It claims Judah's very Baker in her own words In 661 00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:13.000 Denial Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became 662 00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:17.280 a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's book In 663 00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:22.920 Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. It exposes 664 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.440 things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about before. 665 00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:30.960 It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not learn from 666 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:35.800 it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations with more 667 00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.519 success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny into the 668 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:46.679 light. In Denial, Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks Larryhncock. For 669 00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:52.320 more information, go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your copy 670 00:51:52.440 --> 00:52:02.079 of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical point, get ready, 671 00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:09.800 get ready for act? Have you expressed my caller school? Is there 672 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:12.840 anyone else who happens to get on the air at Lly dot com? You 673 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:16.119 not necessarily reflected he views dot com or Chuck Kelly and we are not responsible 674 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:22.079 for any stupidity which might instument revelation through conversations. This is James Corbin at 675 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:27.320 corner Report dot com. And you're listening to they affected Olly dot com get 676 00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:32.119 sponsored by Wall Street, Window dot com and listeners like you now and now. 677 00:52:32.440 --> 00:53:27.039 Most the most ugegrated voice is all media Chuck O's Shelley h M, 678 00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:52.320 wall Stream Window dottuh go Silver the stock market, wall Stream Window dott. 679 00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:57.639 Perhaps you're invested deeply, Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking 680 00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:02.039 about getting started Wall Street, Windows, dot Com, dot com. Michael 681 00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:07.960 Swanson, the brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for 682 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:12.760 many years, and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall 683 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:19.400 Street Streamno dot Com, go there, now go there, now go there 684 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:24.679 now the dot com radio network. Do you like history? Real history that 685 00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:30.960 you were never taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War? Nuclear bombs in 686 00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:36.920 nation building? In Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with new documentation never 687 00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:40.840 seen before that'll open your eyes to events that led up to this. Why 688 00:54:42.159 --> 00:54:47.880 the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty five through 689 00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:54.000 nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the 690 00:54:54.159 --> 00:55:00.960 Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson. O Chilly dot Com expressed by callers school, 691 00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:02.039 is there anyone else who happens to get on the air of jelly dot 692 00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:06.559 com who not necessarily replanted the views of jelly dot com word jumbo chilly And 693 00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:08.440 we are not responsible for any stupidity which you might ensue. Thank you. 694 00:55:59.639 --> 00:57:19.400 M M. Castled from the his griboard a high nation. So oh its 695 00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:39.960 thame And how you try try up you have to be exposed by all time, 696 00:57:40.320 --> 00:58:04.639 by stood all story. Good So lestell YoY I show schools to your 697 00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:21.480 study or m h, I have a guy, I have a god, 698 00:58:21.719 --> 00:59:09.840 so joy I shall joy ranger joye. Yes they say bunty so dogs yepause 699 00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:45.440 we south for basically yo, so you rickyard? Do we speak more than 700 00:59:45.480 --> 01:00:07.519 anything? That's a boy? You go not so revelation through conversation nuclear holocaust. 701 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.039 You know what uranium is, right, think called nuclear weapons and other 702 01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:15.920 things like lots of you know what uranium is right? Bad things things are 703 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:20.480 done with uranium, including some bad things. Nuclear holocaust. You know what 704 01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:24.119 uranium is, right, I've been free. Nuclear Holocaust, nuclear holocaust. 705 01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:29.119 You know what uranium is right? The think called nuclear weapons and other things 706 01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:32.800 like lots of you know what uranium is right? Bad things things are done 707 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:39.519 with uranium, including some bad things Nuclear Holocaust, Nuclear holoclear Holocaust, Nuclear 708 01:00:39.599 --> 01:01:00.320 Holocaust, nuclear holocaust, nuclear hollow Chili dot com dot com supplying UFK research 709 01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:06.119 specialized against Ally's ATAC involvement in multiple assassinations, propaganda, and other build of 710 01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:13.719 criminal operations in the twenty to twenty first century. Listener Yeah, now best 711 01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:25.440 aggravated noise and at Kelly and we are back on the Ocel effect. Now. 712 01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:28.639 I know I took a really long break, but don't worry. I'll 713 01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:32.239 cut it out for those of you hearing the podcast. UH had a little 714 01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:38.519 backstage conversation there between Mike, myself and Carmin Sabastano, And indeed we will 715 01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:45.559 be rolling with some JFK Assassination Mids episodes in the coming weeks. That's uh, 716 01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:50.360 that's now. Uh, you know, seventeen I believe penciled in for 717 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:54.119 part seventeen already, and eighteen is in the planning, uh the same. 718 01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:01.480 And I have this feeling that that will generate the necessity for nineteen twenty twenty 719 01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:07.440 one, just saying, Plus we may have to answer some stuff and next 720 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:12.880 Myths episode if it turns into a complete Myths episode, which I suspect it 721 01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:16.480 will, uh, we'll be live and we'll do it with maybe a special 722 01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:21.920 guest or maybe just Carmine, myself and Mike and guess what we're gonna have 723 01:02:22.039 --> 01:02:28.039 to take a part, Rob Reiner. Okay, And I promised my wife 724 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:30.119 I wouldn't use the euphemism that Archie Bunker used for him, because that is 725 01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:35.800 what I exclaimed when I got through the first few episodes. See I can. 726 01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:38.119 I won't say it. I can. I can. So you were 727 01:02:38.199 --> 01:02:43.320 yelling, I know you were yelling at a screen Meathead, Okay, fair 728 01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:49.920 enough, see, but Meathead was a likable meadhead. This is just it 729 01:02:50.199 --> 01:02:52.960 was just the way that Carol Oo kind of dropped it with such contempt. 730 01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:57.119 I know, but you know you want to talk about contempt It really reminds 731 01:02:57.199 --> 01:03:00.480 me of how deserving he was, of the way that they treat him on 732 01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:06.639 South Park, because have you seen that, Oh you have not seen the 733 01:03:06.719 --> 01:03:08.599 Rob Reiner South Park You're kidding? No, no, no, all right. 734 01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:14.039 I will do my best. I should have done this during the break 735 01:03:14.639 --> 01:03:17.039 because it would allow me to make mistakes during the live show. But I 736 01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:22.559 will very gingerly attempt to see if I can find that one find something to 737 01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:27.559 insert here in the audio, just to you know, give people a taste 738 01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.960 of it. But synopsis, real fast is that Rob Reiner comes to south 739 01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:37.400 Park and he's decided to go after uh, the the the the the tobacco 740 01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:44.519 industry, and the the jokes that are going on there are hilarious throughout. 741 01:03:44.719 --> 01:03:49.480 I mean, but I hypocritically is about, you know, how he cares 742 01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:53.039 about certain things, but maybe he doesn't care about other things. It is 743 01:03:53.480 --> 01:04:01.800 a remarkable farce that in spirit, in my mind, rings through and makes 744 01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:09.719 perfect sense regarding this jfk Assassiny meathead was just a misguided liberal who was touchy 745 01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:15.159 feely for the you know. But but I'm saying that, you know, 746 01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:18.000 if you want to mock him like the meat head thing, and it was 747 01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:23.199 actually Yeah, the character Yeah, was actually likable and it was a decent 748 01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:26.840 person. Archie was Archie. He's trying to do you know, he's trying 749 01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:29.480 to do the right thing. He's trying to say, Archie, he's stopp 750 01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:32.320 being a you know, racist, He's trying to say, Archie, Look, 751 01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:38.480 black people are people too, and he's trying. But it's the endless 752 01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:42.519 fight of you know, whether it's that or you know, each generation fighting 753 01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:45.239 went the generation that came before, wanting to change the generations that come before 754 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:47.760 them, not realizing that, you know, they grew up in the time 755 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:50.000 that they grew up. And you can change people to a certain extent, 756 01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:54.280 but people have to want to change, and most people don't want to change. 757 01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:56.639 They want to be the people that they are. And the here's the 758 01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:00.239 thing. Just because something is you know, remarkably so socially backward during a 759 01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:06.000 certain time period, does it necessarily mean that you need to declare them all 760 01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:10.840 you know on the side of satan, you know what I mean, Like 761 01:05:11.320 --> 01:05:13.760 there was a give and take. There there was something to it, and 762 01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:16.559 there was a dynamic where in your family this person and by the way, 763 01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:19.280 at the end of the day, racist or not, and you know the 764 01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:24.639 fact that he was a pollock, et cetera. You know, all that 765 01:05:24.679 --> 01:05:26.800 stuff. At the end of the day, though, he was still a 766 01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:31.760 member of the Bunker family and you know, actually some remarkable lessons could be 767 01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:39.280 learned from there. However, Oh yeah, the South Park roasting and skewering 768 01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:45.480 of Rob Reiner is amazing. And they put him into this gaggle of celebrities 769 01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:49.039 that does revisit the show later that you know, is all these like crazy 770 01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:56.239 fictional characters basically that and all the celebrities get together because they're angry at south 771 01:05:56.320 --> 01:06:00.280 Park, especially because you know, Tom Cruise being stuck in the closet caused 772 01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:03.960 so much problems. You know, it was it was a big deal in 773 01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:09.039 Mecha streisand of course is the first celebrity that really got y. Yeah, 774 01:06:09.440 --> 01:06:15.239 and they even revisited Meccha streisand during this a following episode. But it's beautiful 775 01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:19.719 to see my goo, my goo. Anybody who saw it in South Park 776 01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:25.360 episode knows what that is. And it's hilarious. Uh. And Rob Reiner 777 01:06:25.440 --> 01:06:29.320 absolutely deserves his skewering. And I really wish he had I don't know, 778 01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:34.000 stuck to something else. Anyway, we'll leave that for the future and mid 779 01:06:34.159 --> 01:06:40.000 seventeen, because let's talk about something that is real. Like I said to 780 01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:44.760 begin with at the very beginning of the show, right we you know, 781 01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:47.840 all the evidence has been destroyed. It's all fake and it's been destroyed, 782 01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:50.719 which, by the way, contradiction there. I mean, if it's all 783 01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:55.599 fake already, why would you destroy what's already all fake? But you know, 784 01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:59.760 I mean kind of like the uh new and improved? Yeah, how 785 01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:01.559 can it be new if it's improved? Is it not? Or is it 786 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:06.239 improved? So is it all destroyed or is it all fake? Because you 787 01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:11.960 wouldn't do both, you know, none at the time. It's that's that's 788 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.760 one of the one of my arguments has always been against people who like to 789 01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:18.199 say either of those arguments, either of those contentions, is that if it's 790 01:07:18.199 --> 01:07:23.039 all fake, it would require nearly as much time as it to decry to 791 01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:27.719 make the original to make the fake. Yeah. Yeah, So how are 792 01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:30.960 these two you know, separate records being made? And how is nobody noticing 793 01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:36.519 that somebody's creating an entirely fabricated second? Correct? And unless you've decided that 794 01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:41.360 fakery, which by the way, it would require an incredibly you know, 795 01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:45.920 vigilant team of people to keep track of what's fake and what's not because you 796 01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:46.920 have to mix it in. I mean, you know, you can't just 797 01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:53.639 name a brand new puff the Magic Dragon Assassin and add him into the thing, 798 01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:55.480 right, I mean, you got to use the real guy. You 799 01:07:55.559 --> 01:08:00.719 got to have some actual biological and biographical information that relates to the real world 800 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:04.280 in order for people to find it plausible to begin with. But here's the 801 01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:08.519 bad part again, and I point this out for no matter which order you 802 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:11.239 want to put it in, if it's all faked, you're not going to 803 01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:16.279 destroy that which you you know, engaged in this huge undertaking to create this 804 01:08:16.439 --> 01:08:20.359 fake record, then you're going to destroy it. No are you going to 805 01:08:20.399 --> 01:08:26.319 destroy stuff and then fake things afterwards. It makes no sense because if you're 806 01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:30.159 eliminating, then you're eliminating. You don't want to add to it. Why 807 01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:32.680 you're litroy it to make sure that it goes away, and that's what not. 808 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:35.359 Of course, to the ridiculous amount of people say they destroyed everything, 809 01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:39.119 of course they destroy everything. I mean, even if you think about it 810 01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:43.079 that way, there's going to be records of the destruction well, there you 811 01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:45.840 go. And in public, and in public, by the way these two 812 01:08:45.920 --> 01:08:50.840 arguments are represented thusly, there are people that are omitting history and ignoring it, 813 01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:57.920 therefore destroying the evidence that is available right by discounting it, putting it 814 01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:05.760 aside, disqualifying it, it's etc. Removing its gravitas and its reputation from 815 01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:13.199 the table. Right And simultaneously there are people adding to the pile and fabricating 816 01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:17.680 nonsense. These things both go on in the real world simultaneously because there is 817 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:23.279 no need for coherence when all you want to do is create confusion. Now, 818 01:09:23.359 --> 01:09:26.840 the government is not going to take that tact, But in public, 819 01:09:27.079 --> 01:09:30.199 why is it allowed to continue? And why is it supported by certain people 820 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.920 that wish to encourage us to be anywhere? But at the actual answers, 821 01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:40.800 because both things can work for the sake of absolute confusion at the end of 822 01:09:40.840 --> 01:09:43.880 the day. A lot of interested parties who have come in and then left 823 01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:46.319 after a year or two have exclaimed to me, at one point or another, 824 01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:50.680 listen, I got into this, I started examining it. I realized 825 01:09:50.720 --> 01:09:54.720 a lot of things were gone. There was nothing I could do to get 826 01:09:54.840 --> 01:09:57.920 at things that if maybe I had gotten on the case. You know, 827 01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:01.960 initially in nineteen sixty tree sixty four or sixty five, I could have had 828 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:06.000 access to people that were still alive, things that were still standing, buildings 829 01:10:06.039 --> 01:10:10.039 that are no longer there. And I say, yeah, you're right, 830 01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:14.199 a lot of evidence, even over time. Time is the great shredder of 831 01:10:14.279 --> 01:10:17.720 evidence. Really, But here's the thing. A lot of that stuff was 832 01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:23.000 destroyed and lost one way or another, either intentionally or just by attrition. 833 01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:26.800 Yes, indeed, but then they staying on top of it, you have 834 01:10:26.960 --> 01:10:30.840 all these different avenues and major confusion, and you got to sort through what's 835 01:10:30.960 --> 01:10:34.520 legitimate, what's not, What is worth my time? What should I follow 836 01:10:34.600 --> 01:10:38.760 through on? I mean, if I spend six months going over something and 837 01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:42.880 then I discover I'm on the trail of a guy who's been dead six months 838 01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:46.720 before, my trail ends kind of useless. And I'm trying to get the 839 01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:53.239 fiction out of there from the conspiracy side, and they throw up their hands 840 01:10:53.279 --> 01:10:57.399 and go, you know what, it's just not solvable. It's just something 841 01:10:57.439 --> 01:11:00.239 that we're not going to be able to solve. Maybe one day somebody will 842 01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:02.760 discover something, but it's not going to be me. And I give up. 843 01:11:02.960 --> 01:11:08.319 They surrender, and indeed, in my mind, the fact that it's 844 01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:13.880 been you know, supported by certain people, not just in official channels and 845 01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:17.039 official positions, but it's been allowed to continue and some people have even figured 846 01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:23.399 out ways to prop it off of it. Indeed, these two you know, 847 01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:30.640 modus operendi are valid because all the confusion and all the dissuading from people 848 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:34.039 actually doing the legitimate work. First of all, they think I can't do 849 01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:39.720 the legitimate work because the information, the tools are not there. The stuff 850 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:43.319 I would need to find is not findable any longer for one reason or another, 851 01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:46.840 either the government destroyed it or time took care of it, so I 852 01:11:46.920 --> 01:11:49.840 don't have the option of being able to solve it. And on top of 853 01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:55.359 it, I also now recognize there's a lot of fiction here, not just 854 01:11:55.479 --> 01:11:59.000 from the Warrant Commission, not just from the TV networks, not just from 855 01:11:59.560 --> 01:12:03.600 you know, the historians who say it doesn't matter anyway. But now I'm 856 01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:08.560 double discouraged. Not only don't I have the ability to get at the real 857 01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:13.399 information, but even if I do get at some information, it's probably fabricated 858 01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:15.960 on top of it. So in that way, it's a double barreled approach, 859 01:12:17.079 --> 01:12:21.399 but it's not the coherent, originated idea. It just happens to be 860 01:12:21.520 --> 01:12:26.880 working and has kept us in a state where you have a murder case that 861 01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:33.479 in reality continues to expand as something that needs to be explored and whittled down 862 01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:39.960 not only through deductive reasoning, but inductive reasoning. You never quite get a 863 01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:46.520 break from the continuously expanding universe of possibilities and illegitimate as well as legitimate evidence 864 01:12:47.159 --> 01:12:54.399 that continuously gets dumped into this arena for you to do battle with. So 865 01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:58.720 anyway, all of that having been said, let's get at a reality, 866 01:12:58.840 --> 01:13:03.760 something that can be proven, something that we do know happened regarding evidence, 867 01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:08.720 destruction, the treatment of it. And for that we turned to Carmin Savias 868 01:13:08.760 --> 01:13:13.680 Nano again t poctpaak dot com. That is the website to go to. 869 01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:16.199 And I'm sorry I've been long winded on this one, but again I didn't 870 01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:19.479 plan it out. It just happened to roll this way. It'll be a 871 01:13:19.560 --> 01:13:24.000 shorter podcast than two hours, but I appreciate you going through this with me, 872 01:13:24.079 --> 01:13:29.119 Carmine and indulging me, because this is all very important, and for 873 01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:32.199 that I turn it over to you, sir, where should we begin because 874 01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:38.880 we mentioned the destruction of evidence regarding the Department of Defense before, Where should 875 01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:43.560 we begin with it now? Well, since the last time we discussed the 876 01:13:43.960 --> 01:13:48.720 Defense Intelligence Agency, that I was that I found some documents that you know 877 01:13:48.880 --> 01:13:54.000 we talked about. You know, they were responsible for destroying immense amounts of 878 01:13:54.039 --> 01:13:59.680 evidence that we didn't know about before. And the DA is a subordinate agency 879 01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:02.720 for the those that know that are listening to the Department of Defense, and 880 01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:08.640 that group had admitting to destroying all of its records connected to the President John 881 01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:13.880 F. Kennedy's assassination. So this subordinate group that the DIA wipes all of 882 01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:17.079 its records, perhaps the only one to wipe all of its records and admit 883 01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:24.319 it anyway in a document. So the DEA wipes out its records. And 884 01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:29.960 as we said, we didn't call it the largest destruction of records because we 885 01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:34.039 have imaginations. The DEA wiped out all of its records, but theoretically a 886 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:41.000 bigger organization like oh, the DoD could also begin to wipe out its records, 887 01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:44.159 and it had many more records than DIA. Right, So we've met 888 01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:49.439 in with your reference number one here, which is the article from the Tea 889 01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:55.840 Pok blog, published on May twenty three. Right, new documents reveal officials 890 01:14:55.920 --> 01:15:03.319 destroyed far more evidence related to the Kennedys fascination then prior believed. Yeah, 891 01:15:03.439 --> 01:15:09.399 and it was. It was a just total purge, which was is unthinkable. 892 01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:13.079 No matter what the subject is, whether it's the assassination of Jfkre, 893 01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:17.760 whether it's the study of you know, Asian American relations, you don't purge 894 01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:26.479 everything now unless there is a specific desire to remove. That's those files forever. 895 01:15:26.840 --> 01:15:30.359 Right now, I'm going to ask the argumentative question here to let you 896 01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:33.760 answer it. I have my own ideas, but why is it a bad 897 01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:38.640 idea to wholesale destroy a set of evidence like this? In your mind? 898 01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:41.800 What would be the top I mean, there are many reasons, you know. 899 01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:45.800 We could begin with, hey, this is historical value, historical value 900 01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:48.920 that's been generated by the government that quite honestly, you know the old argument, 901 01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:53.000 my taxes paid for this and all that. Well, you know you 902 01:15:53.159 --> 01:15:56.720 paid for this stuff, and why is it that they are able to destroy 903 01:15:56.800 --> 01:15:59.520 it? Well, for the good of the country, But tell me some 904 01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:02.760 why is it so bad that they wholesale destroyed an entire set of evidence like 905 01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:06.840 this exactly, and why didn't they target anything else in the same time period. 906 01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:12.600 So I like, I'm going to try to give a little bit more 907 01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:15.079 background on that with the more of the specifics I mentioned briefly some of the 908 01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:18.640 things that were going on. But I think that what was going on was 909 01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:24.840 in beginning in seventy two, largely you know, with the DIA's massive destruction, 910 01:16:25.319 --> 01:16:28.479 the dd was in some parts or at least some people in the DoD 911 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:34.199 were systematically destroying JFK evidence because they were starting to understand that with the creation 912 01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:39.720 of certain congressional committees, investigations were going to start again, and they, 913 01:16:40.039 --> 01:16:44.239 for whatever reason, did not want that information to get to Congress. Well, 914 01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:49.560 wouldn't this also have the additional consequence let's call it destroying things that are 915 01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:55.159 outside of like let's just say, okay, let's just say that I agree 916 01:16:55.520 --> 01:17:01.039 that there's no reason to hang on to the JFK assassination records closed. Okay, 917 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:03.800 Yes, I almost pewd in my mouth and I said it, But 918 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:08.600 yeah, case closed, it's over with. We don't need to retain this 919 01:17:09.399 --> 01:17:16.199 now. Doesn't that inadvertently unintentionally wind up destroying records that although they're tied to 920 01:17:16.239 --> 01:17:24.159 the assassination, could be of importance to other things of historical value or even 921 01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:27.439 at the time that could have been relevant to things that were ongoing Or am 922 01:17:27.479 --> 01:17:30.560 I imagining that? What is your thought? Well? Yeah, well, 923 01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:33.880 and also imagine demandpower, because it would have taken some amount of time for 924 01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:38.520 so many records to be destroyed by an agency. Oh so, how many 925 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:41.399 agents are you devoting to this? How much money is being spent upon this? 926 01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:44.399 Would it just be easier to send it to NARA and let them classify 927 01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:48.439 and declassify what they wanted? Why do you need to destroy everything? Well 928 01:17:48.520 --> 01:17:51.560 that you know, I mean, I'll go into more way. I think, 929 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:56.760 I think that you know, there's varying possibilities, but just to give 930 01:17:56.800 --> 01:18:00.920 I want to try to give the listeners much background, ken, So yeah, 931 01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:04.720 go ahead, Okay. So basically, according to official statements, military 932 01:18:04.760 --> 01:18:10.199 intelligence in the nineteen sixties was aiding law enforcement groups such as the Federal Buerau 933 01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:15.680 of Investigation to infiltrate counter and counter anti war groups and civil rights organizations. 934 01:18:16.359 --> 01:18:20.399 By you know this of course, already Chuck by utilizing the legal surveillance methods 935 01:18:20.439 --> 01:18:27.119 domestically amidst the nineteen sixties, so these actions were likely among the need for 936 01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:30.399 later officials to destroy some materials. But notably, it's not just these illegal 937 01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:35.800 missions that are destroyed, but in certain instances, single investigations files are expressly 938 01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:41.119 targeted without proper explanation. Okay, so what you're saying is that co intail 939 01:18:41.199 --> 01:18:45.279 pro actions like things that people would be uncomfortable with or would be deemed to 940 01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:50.359 be completely illegal and outside have said agencies you know, Charter, etc. 941 01:18:50.960 --> 01:18:54.840 You know, Like, I'm not sure exactly how clear it was, although 942 01:18:55.199 --> 01:19:00.159 when people are searching through your mail, you're utilizing the US Postal Service to 943 01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:03.319 send things, So the fact that they're searching something that is within a government 944 01:19:03.399 --> 01:19:10.279 agency is not that egregious of a violation. But when you're involved in other 945 01:19:10.399 --> 01:19:15.039 things and they're starting to do things that might violate i don't know, individuals 946 01:19:15.239 --> 01:19:18.199 or group's Fourth Amendment rights things like this, Yeah, they might want to 947 01:19:18.279 --> 01:19:23.319 disappear that sort of stuff, especially if people wound up going to prison over 948 01:19:23.399 --> 01:19:27.880 it, or there were other consequences of those actions. People wound up getting 949 01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:31.680 killed over certain things. That actions were taken by individuals who were embedded with 950 01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:36.079 et cetera, et cetera, might be a variety of things. Yeah, 951 01:19:36.159 --> 01:19:40.600 yeah, and all that makes sense. I have no you know, I 952 01:19:40.640 --> 01:19:44.880 would not dispute that that was among the reasoning for destroying certain files. Fair 953 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:51.560 enough, but it doesn't explain why they just specifically targeted JFK files like we 954 01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:56.520 had. So we have the DIA, we have. So in seventy two, 955 01:19:56.520 --> 01:20:00.720 an order comes from the US Army to begin the district of all files 956 01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:06.079 that pertained to quote, non DoD affiliated persons and organizations among nineteen so or 957 01:20:06.159 --> 01:20:12.680 sorry. In seventy one this occurs. So the order's unspecific requirements were the 958 01:20:12.800 --> 01:20:17.359 premise used to excise materials from the Army that would affect them in the coming 959 01:20:17.439 --> 01:20:20.359 years. At the end of the same decade, when the House Select Committee 960 01:20:20.359 --> 01:20:26.079 and Assassinations requested evidence from the DoD about subjects related to the Kennedy assassination, 961 01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:30.279 it was informed that during nineteen seventy two, quote, largely as a result 962 01:20:30.319 --> 01:20:34.920 of investigation into military intelligence because of those programs we're talking about, the Defense 963 01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:42.600 Department destroyed all the military intelligence files that had about American citizens. That's the 964 01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:45.279 quote from Blake. That's what he was told anyway, which I don't think 965 01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:54.159 is true because obviously I have files to percent and we're discussing later destruction after 966 01:20:54.279 --> 01:20:58.479 seventy two when Blakey thought it ended. Right. Now, here's the thing 967 01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:00.800 about this, like you said, in so some cases you may have legitimate 968 01:21:00.920 --> 01:21:05.479 reasons for destroying these things, or again, why not classify them? Okay, 969 01:21:05.600 --> 01:21:10.079 somebody might say, look, how about don't waste the resources. It 970 01:21:10.159 --> 01:21:15.119 will cost less resources to wholesale destroy all of it and incinerate it, as 971 01:21:15.199 --> 01:21:19.720 opposed to going through it determining what is legitimate to be declassified and not, 972 01:21:20.279 --> 01:21:23.720 you know, what will be the waste of time. Files that I always 973 01:21:23.800 --> 01:21:27.720 like to point to that you know, really don't contain any significant information, 974 01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:32.079 but we're being held by said agency anyway. You know, like the photographs 975 01:21:32.159 --> 01:21:38.039 of exactly which newspapers an individual was receiving during a certain period of time, 976 01:21:38.199 --> 01:21:42.720 things like this or nonsense, where surveillance took place and people watched, you 977 01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:45.319 know, individuals grocery shop stuff like this. You'd say, all right, 978 01:21:45.399 --> 01:21:49.199 look it was an intrusion and invasion whatever. But at the same time, 979 01:21:49.319 --> 01:21:54.880 it's extraneous information that's important to know. One I don't need to know if 980 01:21:55.039 --> 01:22:00.399 the head of the invaders in Memphis, you know, you used to like 981 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:02.359 to go to a certain corner store to buy bread. It really is not 982 01:22:02.479 --> 01:22:08.640 relevant. Okay, cool, fine, excellent. But when you're talking about 983 01:22:08.800 --> 01:22:13.920 maybe illegitimate targets and violations that these agencies could have undertaken, well, then 984 01:22:13.960 --> 01:22:17.000 you got the CYA approach, right. It's just look, maybe we need 985 01:22:17.079 --> 01:22:21.319 to get rid of this because these were poor decisions made at a time that 986 01:22:21.479 --> 01:22:26.560 were thought to be of necessity based on directives that were given to us through 987 01:22:26.600 --> 01:22:30.399 Helms, Directives that were given to us through Hoover, you know, requests 988 01:22:30.439 --> 01:22:35.239 that were made by various senators that were on certain committees. You know, 989 01:22:35.479 --> 01:22:41.800 Laird himself might have had things that he felt were stumbles, you know, 990 01:22:41.960 --> 01:22:45.640 by the agency that needed to be redacted wholesale, and it was easier to 991 01:22:45.720 --> 01:22:50.199 destroy all of these files. But again the question remains that you asked to 992 01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:59.800 begin with, why the JFK assassination related material wholesale go ahead? Okay, 993 01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:04.239 So what we see happening with DoD is that as where the DIA just purged 994 01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:10.920 everything and other agencies got rid of some. The DoD was targeting specific files 995 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:15.920 within its holdings as well, so all of its copies of military intelligence that 996 01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:19.039 might have survived or certain things that might have survived the DIA purge were now 997 01:23:19.119 --> 01:23:27.239 being taken out at the DoD level. So, as I said, however, 998 01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:30.039 the endeavor was not part of the army order, the one that Blake 999 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:34.319 was told about that at least specified DoD related files and those of the military 1000 01:23:34.359 --> 01:23:39.920 affiliations should have been retained. Yet such files, according to the DoD were 1001 01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:44.119 lost as well, and the claimed date of destruction was not limited to the 1002 01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:47.920 year claimed seventy two, but continued into nineteen seventy three. Right now, 1003 01:23:48.079 --> 01:23:53.760 at this point, it is important to note that you're not talking about maybe 1004 01:23:53.920 --> 01:24:00.840 the personal mission of one particular director or of individuals who were committed to this 1005 01:24:00.039 --> 01:24:05.399 for reasons known best to them, maybe that you know, had a personal 1006 01:24:05.520 --> 01:24:12.079 desire to eliminate these things and therefore engaged in this activity and had the whole 1007 01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:16.239 department devoted to making sure that these things were purged. Because the hierarchy of 1008 01:24:16.479 --> 01:24:21.439 the DoD was in flux at this point exactly. So it was in flux. 1009 01:24:21.479 --> 01:24:28.560 So this is middle management and lower ranking agents who are really having this, 1010 01:24:28.760 --> 01:24:32.479 who are destroying the JFK case files. But even those are for whatever 1011 01:24:32.640 --> 01:24:36.720 reasonings, and you know, maybe just on orders, but this is not 1012 01:24:36.880 --> 01:24:42.319 a mindless group of people just taking out certain files for no reason. Right. 1013 01:24:42.439 --> 01:24:45.760 And also this is a shuffling group of even the administrators, who could 1014 01:24:45.760 --> 01:24:48.680 be mental management and everything else, because there was a lot of shake ups 1015 01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:55.520 going on in government agencies during the Nation administration, especially at this time period. 1016 01:24:56.279 --> 01:25:00.920 Yeah, well that's the thing that so I was one of the parameters 1017 01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:03.880 of the army order too, because the army order would be what applies here. 1018 01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:08.520 That's what they use as their reasoning for destroying files in seventy three. 1019 01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:14.520 So seventy three arrives political shadows, as you said, loomed that were created 1020 01:25:14.560 --> 01:25:19.159 by President Richard Nixon's passed illegal demands that the Central Intelligence Agency leaders should obstruct 1021 01:25:19.279 --> 01:25:26.119 the FBI's Watergate investigation. That's how the year starts. So agency leadership denies 1022 01:25:26.239 --> 01:25:30.079 these commands that were likely part of the reason Nixon fires Agency director Richard Holmes 1023 01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:34.359 in January of seventy three. The beginning of January the same month, five 1024 01:25:34.479 --> 01:25:39.119 Watergate burglars plead guilty, and the last two suspects, the Howard Hunt and 1025 01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:43.479 George Gordon Lidier convicted the final day of that month, and Nixon appoints the 1026 01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:47.359 new leader of the DoD that Chuck discussed layered and later a new leader of 1027 01:25:47.399 --> 01:25:51.920 the CIA. Nixon had reappointed two more people to lead the DoD in less 1028 01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:57.560 than six months after that, as his administration thrashed to stay afloat in the 1029 01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:00.760 threatening legal waves that approached. Less than a week into the next month, 1030 01:26:01.119 --> 01:26:08.000 Senator Edward Kennedy would introduce a Congressional resolution to form a select committee to investigate 1031 01:26:08.039 --> 01:26:14.680 the Nixon administration's campaign activities right now. Simultaneously, again, you talked about 1032 01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:17.760 the the you know, shuffling of the heads of these agencies, but there 1033 01:26:17.800 --> 01:26:23.720 were others on lower levels that were also being shuffled around. The deputy directors 1034 01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:27.880 of this and that and the third thing were also being changed because Nixon was 1035 01:26:27.960 --> 01:26:33.319 trying to position people that would be friendly to his causes in various positions of 1036 01:26:33.399 --> 01:26:36.840 authority, not just at the top. Or am I wrong about that? 1037 01:26:38.720 --> 01:26:41.520 Oh? No, no, he is. He is. He and his 1038 01:26:41.640 --> 01:26:47.520 advisors are systematically trying to replace people that will go along with helping them develop 1039 01:26:47.600 --> 01:26:51.720 the water get investigation to their liking, right, just so that that is 1040 01:26:51.800 --> 01:26:57.119 certainly going on Department of Defense, Department of Justice, and so on and 1041 01:26:57.239 --> 01:27:00.680 so forth. Would I would say, kind of like the d D, 1042 01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:04.039 the d d's leadership, it wasn't the you know, I don't think it 1043 01:27:04.079 --> 01:27:08.199 was an order from the top. It was a group within, just like 1044 01:27:08.319 --> 01:27:15.159 in the in THEDA. I don't think the d I A uh director ever 1045 01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:19.079 said destroy everything. I don't even think he might have been director the first 1046 01:27:19.359 --> 01:27:24.479 the first director was still around when it actually happened. I think, as 1047 01:27:24.560 --> 01:27:28.000 they say, as military intelligence realized, they were becoming more and more compromised 1048 01:27:28.239 --> 01:27:31.439 as investigations loomed. And I also think that you know, you have the 1049 01:27:31.680 --> 01:27:34.720 those that are worried about the co intel pro type things, those that are 1050 01:27:34.760 --> 01:27:39.319 worried about the illegal surveillance, and those that are worried about the JFK case, 1051 01:27:39.760 --> 01:27:42.960 right because I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be a smoking gun, 1052 01:27:43.039 --> 01:27:47.399 of course not, but it could have just been something that was inflammatory 1053 01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:53.399 that someone said, you know, middle ranking person, lower ranking person and 1054 01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:56.840 said what they would do, or you know, said that they knew somebody 1055 01:27:56.880 --> 01:28:00.479 who was connected to it, doesn't even you know, but it was enough 1056 01:28:00.479 --> 01:28:05.000 to have people actively searching out these records to destroy them. And so in 1057 01:28:05.079 --> 01:28:10.560 seventy three, as I said, with all that going on, Nixon's terms 1058 01:28:10.560 --> 01:28:15.479 approaching its end, and March of seventy three, officials believe that despite the 1059 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:20.880 ongoing congressional investigations, or perhaps due to it, additional files had to be 1060 01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:27.279 destroyed. Right. The evidence in this specific instance was Lee Harvey Oswald's military 1061 01:28:27.399 --> 01:28:31.479 intelligence file, a file that officials prior noted was never provided to the President's 1062 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:38.520 Commission investigation or any other later inquiry. Now, again, I just placed 1063 01:28:38.600 --> 01:28:41.279 one more thing for context that I'm going to shut up and let you run 1064 01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:44.800 for a minute here, because it's important, I think, to note that 1065 01:28:45.199 --> 01:28:49.159 we're talking about the end of Nixon's first term. He's going into his second 1066 01:28:49.239 --> 01:28:53.840 term. Yes, he was re elected by a landslide, Okay, And 1067 01:28:54.079 --> 01:28:59.079 all of that occurs seventy two. So the election of seventy two is next 1068 01:29:00.199 --> 01:29:04.039 begins in seventy three. While that is occurring, though the water gets stuff 1069 01:29:04.279 --> 01:29:12.479 is happening, he's negotiating already with people in Congress. Why is this important? 1070 01:29:12.760 --> 01:29:15.479 Hold your breath for a sec The deal is that he's negotiating with people 1071 01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:21.720 in Congress in the event that we end up getting to an impeachment, which 1072 01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:26.000 means he's starting already to put out feelers. See who's gonna vote for, 1073 01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:29.800 See who's gonna put it out there, See who's going to broach these subjects 1074 01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:36.439 in committees. And alongside of this, parallel with this is what investigations that 1075 01:29:36.560 --> 01:29:44.720 are starting to catch traction that are going to turn into what the various investigations 1076 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:51.319 that I've talked about from the House and Senate committees regarding intelligence activities and pseudo 1077 01:29:51.399 --> 01:29:57.560 military activities related to Cuba. Yes, in a big way, but again 1078 01:29:57.800 --> 01:30:00.640 it's a lot of this stuff. We're gonna wind up talking about the whole 1079 01:30:00.680 --> 01:30:04.479 Bay of Pigs thing. Okay, yeah, you know seventy four hersh is 1080 01:30:04.560 --> 01:30:10.039 going to hammer them in the press right with family jewels and everything that Colby 1081 01:30:10.239 --> 01:30:15.920 basically confirms because Nixon and Ford are rotating leaders of the CIA. Yeah, 1082 01:30:15.359 --> 01:30:20.000 so hello, here we go. So what I'm saying is, while all 1083 01:30:20.119 --> 01:30:27.079 this is going on for some reason, particularly that herds the JFK stuff, 1084 01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:31.079 I'm not saying that that's an answer. What I'm saying is that's very suggestive 1085 01:30:31.479 --> 01:30:36.880 that gee, it must have had some reason for priority at this point. 1086 01:30:38.039 --> 01:30:42.159 Especially yeah, in the in military circles, which I've always said that, 1087 01:30:42.239 --> 01:30:45.760 you know, people like to adopt, you know, like a like a 1088 01:30:45.800 --> 01:30:50.159 Frankenstein's bride. People like to and unfortunately they wake up next to their ideas 1089 01:30:50.199 --> 01:30:54.960 in the morning, you know, with whatever jaffk idea they think, and 1090 01:30:55.039 --> 01:30:57.880 then they realize that it doesn't play out, but they've kind of married themselves 1091 01:30:57.920 --> 01:31:00.319 to it. So I've always left it open. I've always said that there's 1092 01:31:00.359 --> 01:31:03.640 the potential for a conglomerate plot where you have the mafia, you have the 1093 01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.079 military, you have someone else, you know, just a few people from 1094 01:31:06.119 --> 01:31:10.319 a few places that come together, get it done and go away, or 1095 01:31:10.439 --> 01:31:14.960 you know, you have a military flavor or a you know, exile flavor, 1096 01:31:15.039 --> 01:31:19.520 whatever type of plot. But in that instance, these military people would 1097 01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:23.199 have to keep it small, and they would have to keep it quiet. 1098 01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:30.439 And if there were even a slightest talk in these films that somebody might have 1099 01:31:30.479 --> 01:31:36.279 been responsible for something, I understand why they did what they did because even 1100 01:31:36.319 --> 01:31:41.439 the suggestion, as we know from you know, the perception that people like 1101 01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:44.479 yin Or and other people know what they're talking about as far as the assassination 1102 01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.039 it carries with the public. Well, and there you go and simply the 1103 01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:51.760 people that have screen for years, you know, CIA did it. Okay, 1104 01:31:53.199 --> 01:31:59.199 very oversimplified and stupid answer. However, when you say that there's an 1105 01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:00.960 element there and you say that, you know, I'm kind of rewording what 1106 01:32:01.039 --> 01:32:04.359 you just said. But I mean when you take a look at it also 1107 01:32:04.920 --> 01:32:12.239 from an operational standpoint, uh, the idea that there needs to be a 1108 01:32:12.439 --> 01:32:17.560 military ingredient in this stew there needs to be in my mind, okay, 1109 01:32:18.079 --> 01:32:24.159 because you have well, first of all, you got former military people that 1110 01:32:24.279 --> 01:32:27.600 are touching this, that are involved with it. You got people that have 1111 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:30.680 interests that are going to gain from it, et cetera, et cetera. 1112 01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:34.239 To me, people, yeah, they got to sit in on you know, 1113 01:32:34.520 --> 01:32:38.000 as Mike had. You know, people got to sit down on the 1114 01:32:38.039 --> 01:32:41.720 planning for the motorcade route. People that you know, we're local, that 1115 01:32:41.880 --> 01:32:46.199 were co authoring what would occur with the Dallas police. It makes total sense, 1116 01:32:46.199 --> 01:32:48.680 you know, even the triangulation of fire. For those that like that 1117 01:32:48.800 --> 01:32:55.600 idea, Now, there is certainly a military aspect that could be ascribed to 1118 01:32:55.680 --> 01:32:59.520 it, or at least paramilitary if not, you know, in the instance 1119 01:32:59.560 --> 01:33:02.760 of anxiety or fanatics. Right, and even when you turn around you talk 1120 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:06.119 about, okay, the operations that relate to the CIA, you know, 1121 01:33:06.239 --> 01:33:11.199 the military, the Cuban exiles, et cetera. There always has to be 1122 01:33:11.399 --> 01:33:14.119 a military element. What are you gonna do with the you know, use 1123 01:33:15.159 --> 01:33:16.960 you gotta somebody's got to train them. Is it gonna be you know, 1124 01:33:17.119 --> 01:33:20.279 Kolbe that's gonna sit there and train them. No? Is it gonna be 1125 01:33:20.359 --> 01:33:23.920 Colston who's gonna train him? Well, maybe if he wants to teach them 1126 01:33:23.920 --> 01:33:26.560 how to break an enter, But I mean outside of that, you know, 1127 01:33:26.640 --> 01:33:30.439 who's gonna sit there and flop around in the mud. I know everybody's 1128 01:33:30.439 --> 01:33:34.359 thinking David Ferry, but uh, you know that's different story. The thing 1129 01:33:34.520 --> 01:33:39.479 is, there's gonna have to be military people that are gonna be involved with 1130 01:33:39.640 --> 01:33:45.560 some aspect of the operation, no matter how you imagine it. So the 1131 01:33:45.680 --> 01:33:51.439 fact that you see a wholesale destruction from a d O d ARM related to 1132 01:33:51.520 --> 01:33:56.560 the d i A, the Defense Intelligence Agency, which should be the collection 1133 01:33:56.720 --> 01:34:02.239 point for guess what all of these military intelligence factions, Well that's pretty interesting, 1134 01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:05.800 especially at this time. Why is it something that they need to partake. 1135 01:34:06.119 --> 01:34:10.119 You know, they're busy with a lot of stuff here. You know 1136 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:13.920 a lot of things that are keeping them busy outside of you know, their 1137 01:34:13.960 --> 01:34:17.760 regular jobs. Yeah, there's extra things happening regarding, like I said, 1138 01:34:17.800 --> 01:34:20.479 the shuffling with Nixon, the fact that he's trying to put friendly people in 1139 01:34:20.520 --> 01:34:25.439 the right position. He's got people interacting, There's real action going on. 1140 01:34:25.640 --> 01:34:30.520 There is the Vietnam War still happening. There is guess what, Cambodia that 1141 01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:35.960 bombing all of these things, okay, And whether it's about trying to get 1142 01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:41.560 to peace or conducting war or looking out for the next domino where that might 1143 01:34:41.640 --> 01:34:48.800 start to teeter. All of this means that you have military intelligence dadd should 1144 01:34:48.840 --> 01:34:57.159 all be busy with a lot of current events, not necessarily worried about destroying 1145 01:34:57.199 --> 01:35:01.720 the history. But maybe that's just me. Go ahead, Cormy. So 1146 01:35:03.239 --> 01:35:09.600 first we should note that all this material legally should have been obviously held for 1147 01:35:09.760 --> 01:35:14.720 historical purposes. It should have been given to the requesting investigators. It kills 1148 01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:16.640 me that the Commission didn't get it. I mean, the Commission was the 1149 01:35:16.720 --> 01:35:20.800 government's side show that was you know, they wanted that to be the end 1150 01:35:20.880 --> 01:35:25.760 all be all. We have a blue ribbon winner here, folks. That 1151 01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:30.399 the commission wasn't given really makes me think that there's something questionable in these files, 1152 01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:36.199 because I mean, you had Alan Dulles for christ, you had an 1153 01:35:36.399 --> 01:35:41.560 XCIA had I think he would have went along with the program. So whatever 1154 01:35:41.760 --> 01:35:48.560 was in these files must have been fairly controversial. So so I wanted Yeah, 1155 01:35:48.680 --> 01:35:57.239 so beyond historical purposes, the file contained derogatory information. This final stipulation 1156 01:35:57.439 --> 01:36:00.479 is crucial in my view because Oswald's files were changing from his court martials to 1157 01:36:00.640 --> 01:36:04.920 his Russian defection, the alleged role as the presidential assassin were all reasons to 1158 01:36:05.079 --> 01:36:13.319 maintain the file if you look in the documents under DoD requirements. So they 1159 01:36:13.399 --> 01:36:16.640 destroyed it in lieu of all the requirements they had set for things that shouldn't 1160 01:36:16.640 --> 01:36:20.680 be destroyed. So if such guidelines have been followed, the President's Commission, 1161 01:36:20.760 --> 01:36:25.359 Pike Committee, Church Committee, HCA, and others would have all possessed the 1162 01:36:25.439 --> 01:36:30.479 request of evidence. Yet they were not, and instead related DoD papers offer 1163 01:36:30.159 --> 01:36:35.920 that quote DOSSIERAB six five two eight seven six Oswald Lee Harvey was identified for 1164 01:36:36.039 --> 01:36:44.159 deletion one March nineteen seventy three, And how is that file not relevant even 1165 01:36:44.319 --> 01:36:51.239 to just fully flesh out a biography of Lee rb Oswell, which, by 1166 01:36:51.279 --> 01:36:55.640 the way, is one of the documents that is produced over and over again 1167 01:36:55.840 --> 01:37:00.840 in these various investigations and you know, collect actions of paper by the government. 1168 01:37:01.159 --> 01:37:06.119 Over and over again, they are writing biographies of Lee rb Oswald, 1169 01:37:06.199 --> 01:37:11.359 right, I mean, they have to identify who this character is, where 1170 01:37:11.439 --> 01:37:15.239 he's been, what he knows, what he has access to. And I'm 1171 01:37:15.319 --> 01:37:17.960 thinking that despite the fact that you know, he didn't spend a long time 1172 01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:20.560 in the military, he was only twenty four years old when he died. 1173 01:37:21.439 --> 01:37:26.159 Even if he spent two years in the military, it's a significant portion of 1174 01:37:26.199 --> 01:37:29.800 his life that would need to be covered in those biographies. Or maybe I'm 1175 01:37:29.800 --> 01:37:32.840 out of line now, of course that should have been pertained, especially with 1176 01:37:32.920 --> 01:37:38.039 the historical significance of what occurred afterwards. Yeah, and that he I mean 1177 01:37:38.119 --> 01:37:43.319 he they said, you know, destroy all non related military people. Well 1178 01:37:43.359 --> 01:37:45.880 he's related to the military. Check they said, anythink with derogatory information. 1179 01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:51.920 Keep he had derogatory information, check and historical significance. So there's no excuse 1180 01:37:53.520 --> 01:37:58.479 for why this specifically target his military intelligence file and remove it from the DD's 1181 01:37:58.520 --> 01:38:03.720 holdings, as the DEA removed everything else, and so the identifying official was 1182 01:38:03.800 --> 01:38:09.720 named Miss Lindell E. Harp. But the document also notes DoD can identify 1183 01:38:09.880 --> 01:38:15.319 who or exactly when the files were destroyed, but assume it occurred within sixty 1184 01:38:15.399 --> 01:38:21.720 days of being identified. A seemingly additional unintended mass destruction of Army files occurred 1185 01:38:21.800 --> 01:38:28.680 when quote sixteen point five million files on Army personnel who served before nineteen sixty 1186 01:38:29.039 --> 01:38:33.279 were rendered to ash from a fire at the Army's National Record Center following the 1187 01:38:33.399 --> 01:38:39.159 destruction of Oswald's files. Okay, yet, unlike the fire that claimed all 1188 01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:43.359 those files without regard some of the DoD had at least two years within its 1189 01:38:43.439 --> 01:38:47.960 subordinate, the DEA had been destroying files specifically related to the Kennedy assassination. 1190 01:38:49.119 --> 01:38:53.840 Any claim this targeted purge was limited to the nineteen sixties or even up to 1191 01:38:53.920 --> 01:38:58.279 nineteen seventy two are now easily set aside as investigations were ongoing, this would 1192 01:38:58.319 --> 01:39:01.880 likely increase the need for scrubbing legal record, and the next year the calls 1193 01:39:01.880 --> 01:39:08.239 for additional congressional investigations began and materialized by nineteen seventy five. As was my 1194 01:39:08.359 --> 01:39:13.600 contention prior and based on repeated, as honest historical actions within the Congressional staff, 1195 01:39:13.640 --> 01:39:17.159 I believe officials would keep destroying evidence until the very moment it was no 1196 01:39:17.319 --> 01:39:26.279 longer possible without detection. So I think that this continued up until and maybe 1197 01:39:26.319 --> 01:39:30.439 even after the Church Committee. I think, I, I, hey, 1198 01:39:30.680 --> 01:39:32.159 I'm going to push my I'm going to push my wager a little farther. 1199 01:39:32.199 --> 01:39:34.920 In the beginning, some people only thought it happened in the sixties. I 1200 01:39:35.079 --> 01:39:39.159 guessed that happened in the seventies, and it did. And I think that 1201 01:39:39.279 --> 01:39:42.520 they Why wouldn't they if they thought they could get away with it like the 1202 01:39:42.600 --> 01:39:45.279 DEA did, Why wouldn't they keep destroying them as long as they possibly could 1203 01:39:45.279 --> 01:39:49.000 before they were caught. I'm going to keep looking too, of course, 1204 01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:53.239 I'm going to keep looking at the record to see if we can find additional 1205 01:39:53.319 --> 01:39:58.439 targets related to this. But I'm happy that we're proving that military officials were 1206 01:39:58.600 --> 01:40:01.279 just as obstructive as any incy officials, but far more successful for a time 1207 01:40:01.319 --> 01:40:06.119 in keeping their actions heads. Basically, they were able to dodge the question 1208 01:40:06.359 --> 01:40:11.239 for decades, where the CIA and FBI got served up at a platter basically 1209 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:15.800 by the end of the seventies. There you have it. So what else 1210 01:40:15.880 --> 01:40:20.600 do we note in these articles? I've given a reference one and I think 1211 01:40:20.640 --> 01:40:25.239 I put reference too in the chatroom at Ocelli dot com. And those are 1212 01:40:25.359 --> 01:40:30.960 the two most relevant of the references. What else do we need to note 1213 01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:32.800 here? Well, I just I think people, you know, take a 1214 01:40:32.880 --> 01:40:36.000 look at him, of course, come to your own conclusions. But as 1215 01:40:36.079 --> 01:40:39.239 you know, one of the things, and I hope one of the things 1216 01:40:39.279 --> 01:40:44.319 that Chuck appreciates about me, is I always bring official documents. So these 1217 01:40:44.399 --> 01:40:46.479 are their records. You're going to find here the links to my articles. 1218 01:40:46.520 --> 01:40:51.079 But my articles are comprised of official documents and interviews with the people related to 1219 01:40:51.239 --> 01:40:55.760 the to what was going on. And I think based on that, it 1220 01:40:56.159 --> 01:41:01.399 gives us the clearest conclusion that certainly something was afoot in that period for those 1221 01:41:01.439 --> 01:41:06.239 two years at least maybe three and more to attack the JFK case in the 1222 01:41:06.319 --> 01:41:11.920 military. Simultaneously, you know, the CIA and FBI had destroyed the things 1223 01:41:11.960 --> 01:41:14.439 that were going to destroy for the most part by then, and it was 1224 01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:17.319 nothing nearly a significant as the DEA But to me, what's interesting is that 1225 01:41:17.920 --> 01:41:21.640 it wasn't just the DA. Luck likely the DA was under orders from someone 1226 01:41:21.760 --> 01:41:29.840 in the d D who also had people destroying things within its holdings. Right, 1227 01:41:30.680 --> 01:41:34.920 So here we are, we have a we have the the record of 1228 01:41:35.039 --> 01:41:42.319 destruction, we have the scope of the destruction. Right, we have the 1229 01:41:43.560 --> 01:41:49.359 obvious measures that were supposed to prevent said destruction. We seem to have, 1230 01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:53.680 you know, a fairly good paper trail here. Interesting by the way that 1231 01:41:53.800 --> 01:41:57.840 Oswald's stuff, you know, if he was taken into the army and these 1232 01:41:57.880 --> 01:42:00.680 things were reduced to ash, you know, pre you know, people that 1233 01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:05.479 served prior to nineteen sixty that includes Oswald. Yep, you know, just 1234 01:42:05.600 --> 01:42:11.359 saying weird where he's included and then not included. I think that it's no 1235 01:42:11.560 --> 01:42:18.439 small thing to recognize that contemporaneous with this destruction. There are different investigations emerging 1236 01:42:18.560 --> 01:42:25.479 beginning concluding et cetera. All going on, not just the ones where the 1237 01:42:25.560 --> 01:42:29.079 House Select Committees involved, the Senate Select Committees are involved, et cetera, 1238 01:42:29.600 --> 01:42:35.039 but also the Department of Justice is investigating a bunch of things that could also 1239 01:42:35.359 --> 01:42:41.840 touch upon this. There's a lot of agencies that could have requested various documents 1240 01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:47.640 that were connected to the case that were in DoD hands. None of them 1241 01:42:47.720 --> 01:42:57.720 got it because it was all destroyed and interestingly at separate periods by separate groups, 1242 01:42:57.800 --> 01:43:01.880 but ultimately in unison. As far as the end, you know, 1243 01:43:02.279 --> 01:43:05.359 the ends that they were trying to achieve, you know, the O and 1244 01:43:05.439 --> 01:43:10.119 Ile intelligence had taken it out. I believe during the sixties, the CIA 1245 01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:12.520 took out some stuff DUR in the sixties. The FBI took out some stuff 1246 01:43:12.560 --> 01:43:15.439 UR in the sixties. But they were separate agencies, not all linked by 1247 01:43:15.479 --> 01:43:20.119 the military O and I as opposed to the other two was linked to them. 1248 01:43:20.239 --> 01:43:26.239 So and I takes it out than what was it I believe than Oswold's 1249 01:43:26.439 --> 01:43:30.920 marine records. Some of his marine records disappear. Then someone just totally purges 1250 01:43:30.960 --> 01:43:35.800 everything in the DA while military intelligence is being investigated, and then somebody purchased 1251 01:43:35.840 --> 01:43:40.800 things in the d D holdings. So I'm wondering how. I don't think 1252 01:43:40.840 --> 01:43:44.079 it could go possibly any higher, because like you said, everything was in 1253 01:43:44.159 --> 01:43:47.680 flux. So this is middle management, low management, maybe even a person 1254 01:43:47.800 --> 01:43:50.920 or two. It doesn't have to be you know, some group of conspirators, 1255 01:43:51.279 --> 01:43:56.399 but just people that specifically want these files to go away for the reasoning 1256 01:43:56.520 --> 01:43:58.760 we have not you know, we can't fully conclude it, right, we 1257 01:43:58.800 --> 01:44:00.560 can't discern it. But here's an other interesting idea. You know, the 1258 01:44:00.680 --> 01:44:04.000 two on one file of Lee Harvey Oswald, right, the personnel file in 1259 01:44:04.079 --> 01:44:10.520 the possession of the CIA, which is meant to explain who to hell somebody 1260 01:44:10.640 --> 01:44:14.800 is, you know, how useful they are, what their track record is, 1261 01:44:14.880 --> 01:44:21.199 et cetera. One would think that a condensed version of records pertaining directly 1262 01:44:21.239 --> 01:44:28.239 to him from the do D collection would be included in that two a one 1263 01:44:28.359 --> 01:44:31.720 file. Of course, now that's just a dumping ground basically for anything they 1264 01:44:31.800 --> 01:44:34.760 had that had the word Oswald. It appears, yeah, just so that 1265 01:44:34.840 --> 01:44:39.680 they could tie up researchers. You know. But what I'm saying is legitimately, 1266 01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:46.840 and it's most it's just And one wonders why there wasn't a complaint saying, 1267 01:44:47.680 --> 01:44:51.079 you know, because look, if I was member of the CIA and 1268 01:44:51.239 --> 01:44:56.119 not in the know, and I was instructed to go ahead and collect information 1269 01:44:56.279 --> 01:45:01.159 on Lee Harvey Oswald, one of the primary documents in that document collection would 1270 01:45:01.239 --> 01:45:05.680 be his military record. Well, certainly he was interesting too, is a 1271 01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:11.920 military intelligence file. Well, why did Oswald have a military intelligence file? 1272 01:45:12.279 --> 01:45:15.600 He was only I think secret. Yeah, he wasn't even that highly graded 1273 01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:20.560 for classified information. So what is so important in his military intelligence history that 1274 01:45:20.760 --> 01:45:27.000 requires its destruction? But it contravenes all of the requirements you've set down for 1275 01:45:27.119 --> 01:45:30.520 things not to be destroyed, especially a guy who had it was crypto clearance 1276 01:45:30.600 --> 01:45:34.880 with UH to be able to do the stuff with the U two. Yeah, 1277 01:45:35.520 --> 01:45:42.039 so his clearances would have had to have been relevant. You would think 1278 01:45:43.199 --> 01:45:47.720 to the CIA, you know, I mean, look, I know I'm 1279 01:45:47.760 --> 01:45:53.119 speculating a bit here. I'm just saying that. Isn't that a fascinating question 1280 01:45:53.319 --> 01:45:56.439 in and of itself? Like if I was the CIA guy directed to do 1281 01:45:56.560 --> 01:45:58.960 that, had no knowledge of any of this stuff, just I don't know, 1282 01:45:59.000 --> 01:46:01.359 I'm collecting crap on a guy named Oswald, I know nothing. I 1283 01:46:01.399 --> 01:46:06.000 would complain that I can't get these files. I would say, you know, 1284 01:46:06.359 --> 01:46:10.199 hey, guys, you gotta have a copy somewhere for me, right, 1285 01:46:11.000 --> 01:46:13.680 Well, especially since the c I in the military running joint operations all 1286 01:46:13.720 --> 01:46:16.119 the time. Well, but that's the thing is that that this is complimentary. 1287 01:46:16.279 --> 01:46:19.159 This is not adversarial. This is not like we're trying to collect, 1288 01:46:19.199 --> 01:46:24.880 you know, the German Army intelligence file on the guy. We're collecting within 1289 01:46:24.960 --> 01:46:28.560 our own government agencies, you know, all in the family again, right, 1290 01:46:29.119 --> 01:46:31.439 So where are we at with that? Well? Why does nobody even 1291 01:46:31.720 --> 01:46:36.399 mention that? Really except what you got that one letter of complaint from a 1292 01:46:36.560 --> 01:46:43.520 congressional staffer, Right, isn't that how many people complained that this stuff disappeared? 1293 01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:47.199 Anybody? Yeah, it's It's very rare and surprisingly two to me. 1294 01:46:47.279 --> 01:46:50.319 I just don't think he knew. I don't think Dulles and some of the 1295 01:46:50.359 --> 01:46:55.399 other commissioners knew that they would deprived that file. I just think the military 1296 01:46:55.600 --> 01:46:58.720 just didn't give it to theok. Yeah, but see there's the problem because 1297 01:46:58.760 --> 01:47:02.760 a guy like Dulles should be in the know enough to know that's missing. 1298 01:47:03.560 --> 01:47:09.479 Yeah, that's something's missing. You know. For instance, Okay, you 1299 01:47:09.640 --> 01:47:12.960 and I work in an industry, name an industry. Okay, I'll give 1300 01:47:12.960 --> 01:47:15.520 you a real world example, just real fast. I used to run gas 1301 01:47:15.520 --> 01:47:19.199 stations right in the state of New Jersey. If you were a gas pumper, 1302 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:23.800 you were required by law to have a certificate that said you knew how 1303 01:47:23.800 --> 01:47:27.199 to handle gasoline. Okay, I know. It's this weird, esoteric, 1304 01:47:27.279 --> 01:47:30.720 strange thing still stands today as far as I know, because by law, 1305 01:47:31.159 --> 01:47:34.199 customers are not allowed to pump their own gas in the state of New Jersey. 1306 01:47:34.680 --> 01:47:38.239 You have Okay, I know that exists in some places still, Okay, 1307 01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:42.720 Yeah, Unfortunately we're not one of those states. Literally speaking. There's 1308 01:47:42.760 --> 01:47:46.000 only two states in the United States that have that law on the books and 1309 01:47:46.079 --> 01:47:49.800 anymore, and it's Oregon in New Jersey. Okay. So here's the thing 1310 01:47:49.840 --> 01:47:55.600 about it, though. If I hand it over, you're let's just say, 1311 01:47:55.640 --> 01:47:58.079 you're working for me at the gas station. I'm the manager. You're 1312 01:47:58.079 --> 01:48:02.920 a gas pumper. Somebody wants your work records with me, right, I 1313 01:48:03.039 --> 01:48:06.319 say, yeah, sure, here you go. Here's his W two form, 1314 01:48:06.800 --> 01:48:12.760 Here's you know, his job application, he filled out, incident reports, 1315 01:48:12.800 --> 01:48:16.199 whatever, whatever I have as a personnel file. I kept personnel files 1316 01:48:16.279 --> 01:48:20.399 on people that worked for me at the gas station. Okay, their identification 1317 01:48:20.520 --> 01:48:25.239 in it, their tax information, etc. In a file in capitals, 1318 01:48:25.439 --> 01:48:30.439 okay, employee files. If I handed that over and it said you were 1319 01:48:31.199 --> 01:48:35.399 a gas pumper and somebody was familiar with that business and they found you don't 1320 01:48:35.439 --> 01:48:42.199 have a certificate in that file. The answer to me about that missing piece 1321 01:48:42.279 --> 01:48:46.439 of paper would be, either he didn't have one, or you have not 1322 01:48:46.600 --> 01:48:51.800 included this thing in the file that should be there. So can you find 1323 01:48:51.840 --> 01:48:56.239 out if either didn't have one or right, because they would want the complete 1324 01:48:56.279 --> 01:49:02.399 file. Yeah, I figure Alan Dolls would be aware that. Now, 1325 01:49:02.840 --> 01:49:06.560 again, turning back, you would figure Allen Dolls would be aware that this 1326 01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:11.960 guy had to have because they knew that he had been in the military. 1327 01:49:12.680 --> 01:49:16.199 They had a whole panel of people there developing his biography, take a look 1328 01:49:16.199 --> 01:49:20.039 at the organization. Well, I was just going to say, that's the 1329 01:49:20.119 --> 01:49:24.640 interesting thing is Dulles would have thought that he would have a military file. 1330 01:49:25.199 --> 01:49:30.479 But what if he had had a military intelligence file? Well, I think 1331 01:49:30.560 --> 01:49:34.199 it was. Wasn't it known by the commission that Oswald had some involvement with 1332 01:49:34.319 --> 01:49:40.239 the U two. Well, because he worked at the that that is true. 1333 01:49:40.359 --> 01:49:44.800 But I don't think that he had clearance and access to where he would 1334 01:49:44.800 --> 01:49:46.439 have been considered. I don't think there would have been a reason to open 1335 01:49:46.920 --> 01:49:51.159 a military intelligence file on him. But there would be because here's the thing, 1336 01:49:51.600 --> 01:49:55.439 Well, I mean in the pointment, Yeah, I guess with proximity 1337 01:49:55.560 --> 01:49:58.399 to the YouTube. But you know, the CIA and the military up and 1338 01:49:58.439 --> 01:50:00.640 down swore that he knew nothing of the utube too. He was just basically 1339 01:50:00.760 --> 01:50:04.800 helping with the you know, radar operations. Yeah, but working at that 1340 01:50:05.039 --> 01:50:12.319 base which handled right the U two flights meant that you would recu I guess 1341 01:50:12.359 --> 01:50:15.439 it would be a basic opening. Yeah, it could require a basic opening 1342 01:50:15.479 --> 01:50:16.920 no matter who worked there, whether it's a secretary or whether it was a 1343 01:50:17.039 --> 01:50:21.159 radar operator something, because they might be in proximity to wound up being in 1344 01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:25.479 the know about something, so they would have to be cleared, approved or 1345 01:50:26.479 --> 01:50:30.079 uh, you know something. At some point they would have to be you 1346 01:50:30.159 --> 01:50:32.800 know, sign an NDA something, which it should have all just been basic 1347 01:50:32.880 --> 01:50:36.119 paperwork. What did they not want the commission to see? See? But 1348 01:50:36.239 --> 01:50:40.479 that's the thing is that, let let's go with that premise. Tell me 1349 01:50:40.600 --> 01:50:45.359 that Dulles doesn't know that somebody working in proximity to the U two. See 1350 01:50:45.680 --> 01:50:48.479 that's the thing. He never requests it. They don't give it to him. 1351 01:50:48.720 --> 01:50:51.960 That's fine, that's the way it works. But it seems strange to 1352 01:50:53.039 --> 01:50:55.359 me that a guy like that wouldn't have said, wait a minute, we 1353 01:50:55.439 --> 01:51:00.199 need to request his military He was prepping witnesses and other stuff. He was 1354 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:03.359 keeping busy, as you'd like to note, so he was he was not 1355 01:51:03.479 --> 01:51:06.920 able to multitask as well as Nixon's people were a few years later. Is 1356 01:51:08.000 --> 01:51:10.960 what you're saying, Well, I don't, well, you know, he 1357 01:51:11.079 --> 01:51:13.479 was getting into older years, you know, I mean, I'm sure he 1358 01:51:13.520 --> 01:51:16.119 could still maybe down a little bit spin a tail and you know, yeah, 1359 01:51:16.319 --> 01:51:18.560 yeah, no, product, yeah, I mean, well, and 1360 01:51:18.720 --> 01:51:23.399 you talk. I just remember you and while Brown talking about how it should 1361 01:51:23.399 --> 01:51:26.720 have been called the Dullest Committee because he was always participating so much. Oh 1362 01:51:26.760 --> 01:51:29.439 yeah, no, he's I just think that he was running the show in 1363 01:51:29.560 --> 01:51:32.560 that direction more rather than perhaps asking the pertinent question he didn't want to ask 1364 01:51:32.600 --> 01:51:38.159 the pertinent questions. Probably Oh yeah. But again, if you're going to 1365 01:51:38.279 --> 01:51:42.159 minimize this guy, as you know, a guy who barely served in the 1366 01:51:42.199 --> 01:51:45.760 military, I mean, one would think that even a search for this file 1367 01:51:45.880 --> 01:51:49.239 to say that you know, it never existed, it couldn't have insisted or 1368 01:51:49.680 --> 01:51:54.920 you know, at some point an evaluation would have been done on a guy 1369 01:51:55.079 --> 01:51:58.880 to be anywhere in the because again, you're in proximity of something that's top 1370 01:51:58.960 --> 01:52:03.039 secret. Generally speaking, they do background on you regardless, if you're going 1371 01:52:03.079 --> 01:52:06.520 to be around it a lot, you might run into something. You might 1372 01:52:06.640 --> 01:52:10.600 have a coworker, you might do a job with somebody who is in the 1373 01:52:10.720 --> 01:52:14.199 know. You see what I'm saying, like just being well, yeah, 1374 01:52:14.319 --> 01:52:16.159 no, no, I think that it's totally reasonable to assume that the file 1375 01:52:16.159 --> 01:52:21.760 would have been created. But the question is why the destruction, not just 1376 01:52:21.880 --> 01:52:26.920 the time of destruction, but it was so long after. If if this 1377 01:52:27.079 --> 01:52:29.840 is a nothing file, if this helps prove the government's case, then why 1378 01:52:29.960 --> 01:52:32.239 wasn't this handed over years ago or presented to the public. Yeah, well 1379 01:52:32.319 --> 01:52:35.479 of course, but but see but there there again, because look again, 1380 01:52:35.680 --> 01:52:44.600 I knew a guy who okay, he winds up working for the what do 1381 01:52:44.680 --> 01:52:49.399 you call it? The Cooperative agency there where it's it was kind of like 1382 01:52:49.880 --> 01:52:54.800 it was one of the things that was really deeply involved with Homeland security and 1383 01:52:55.039 --> 01:53:00.000 all that, and it was just the Department of Home Well let's just let's 1384 01:53:00.039 --> 01:53:04.279 just go with the Department of Homeland Security. Department of Homeland Security. Right, 1385 01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:13.920 you're giving a tours, okay to tourists of like one of the headquarter 1386 01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:18.159 buildings, all right, which has military people and civilian people involved. Because 1387 01:53:20.039 --> 01:53:27.239 if you're just a tour guide showing people parts of a military base, Yeah, 1388 01:53:27.319 --> 01:53:33.640 an intelligence file is generated if you're on a base that has any sort 1389 01:53:33.680 --> 01:53:38.119 of secretive stuff on it. Maybe they're building weapons on a particular area, 1390 01:53:38.199 --> 01:53:42.439 they're testing stuff, whatever. Even though you're not involved, you're giving tours. 1391 01:53:42.520 --> 01:53:45.399 Yeah, like in Virginia Camp Perry where they call it the farm where 1392 01:53:45.439 --> 01:53:48.560 they would take CIA agents to train them and yeah, or even like it 1393 01:53:48.640 --> 01:53:53.119 would hold people right or Fort Dixon, New Jersey. Again, I'm using 1394 01:53:53.159 --> 01:53:55.439 a real world example. I'm not going to mention the name here, but 1395 01:53:55.560 --> 01:54:00.199 here's the thing. A guy who's giving tours of that because they have uh 1396 01:54:00.800 --> 01:54:03.279 a training area and a firing range on there, which, by the way, 1397 01:54:03.359 --> 01:54:10.960 they train military people there. They also allow prison guards and uh civilian 1398 01:54:11.039 --> 01:54:15.640 police forces to utilize their facility, et cetera, et cetera. They give 1399 01:54:15.760 --> 01:54:19.600 tours to the public of that facility, even if you're nowhere near anything top 1400 01:54:19.680 --> 01:54:23.840 secret and you're basically running people around going look, we still have this old 1401 01:54:23.880 --> 01:54:27.279 airplane. Look, here's the thing that we have from the days when the 1402 01:54:27.600 --> 01:54:32.000 you know, the oh my goodness, the uh what the airship disaster? 1403 01:54:32.199 --> 01:54:38.079 There the uh, the blimp Hindenburgh. Okay, the Hindenburg goes. Yeah, 1404 01:54:38.119 --> 01:54:42.279 the Hindenburgh that went down in lake in Lakehurst, New Jersey. Okay, 1405 01:54:42.439 --> 01:54:45.039 so you're in close proximity to that. We are somewhat affiliated with that. 1406 01:54:45.239 --> 01:54:49.359 That's the naval airbase. We're an army base. They do that and 1407 01:54:49.479 --> 01:54:53.680 give you know, a forty five minute tour to people and show them all 1408 01:54:53.720 --> 01:54:57.199 this stuff. And here's what we photographed from, you know, from here 1409 01:54:57.600 --> 01:55:00.840 of the lake Erst Naval Air Base, and and here's the part of New 1410 01:55:00.960 --> 01:55:03.880 Jersey we're in. Here's when this base was built. The BS tour, 1411 01:55:05.079 --> 01:55:12.039 that person has a background check done on them and therefore generates an intelligence file. 1412 01:55:13.079 --> 01:55:15.159 Okay, it's a basic intelligence file that just says, you know, 1413 01:55:15.279 --> 01:55:19.239 this guy's not probably dangerous. If he encounters something top secret, you know, 1414 01:55:19.359 --> 01:55:23.399 we're not too worried about it, et cetera, et cetera. They 1415 01:55:23.520 --> 01:55:26.760 check to see if he's subversive, how his mental stability is. And he's 1416 01:55:26.800 --> 01:55:30.039 a tour guide. Yeah, okay, but since his employee, yeah, 1417 01:55:30.119 --> 01:55:34.520 underneath and that I understand for military personnel. But once again we're talking about 1418 01:55:35.640 --> 01:55:41.479 and I understand it in the I don't disagree with most of them, pretty 1419 01:55:41.520 --> 01:55:44.720 much all of what you're saying. I just my question is, is the 1420 01:55:44.800 --> 01:55:46.640 timing. My question is is a selection. No, No, And that 1421 01:55:46.880 --> 01:55:49.880 there were a lot of things at that time they should have been destroying if 1422 01:55:49.920 --> 01:55:55.800 they really wanted to cover themselves, and that that was something somebody focused on 1423 01:55:56.199 --> 01:56:00.239 despite all the rules they had set up for it. And it just it's 1424 01:56:00.359 --> 01:56:02.960 the non tensical way it was done. And in that it keeps getting later. 1425 01:56:03.319 --> 01:56:05.239 Like I said, I think that data is going to keep pushing. 1426 01:56:05.279 --> 01:56:10.159 I'm gonna I've gone through almost all of the new releases, I've done most 1427 01:56:10.159 --> 01:56:13.680 of the old releases, and I'm going to keep looking occasionally ill you know, 1428 01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:17.159 hopefully I can hit across something else to see if there's another military arm 1429 01:56:17.439 --> 01:56:20.680 and we're talking to destroy files. Yeah, and we're up to nineteen seventy 1430 01:56:20.720 --> 01:56:27.359 five. Now, that's when all the investigations start occurring. This Oswalt's file 1431 01:56:27.439 --> 01:56:30.600 goes in seventy three, okay, and that but it goes the month following 1432 01:56:31.159 --> 01:56:35.520 the launch of the water investigation. Oh beautiful, But Mike, and then 1433 01:56:35.560 --> 01:56:39.399 the fire happens. No, no, of course, and that's another thing. 1434 01:56:39.600 --> 01:56:43.359 But look, the only thing I'm doing here really is piling on that. 1435 01:56:43.800 --> 01:56:47.439 There should be a question at some point somebody going across these things, 1436 01:56:48.039 --> 01:56:51.640 Yeah, should be requesting a file that's already been destroyed, is all I'm 1437 01:56:51.680 --> 01:56:57.079 trying to get to. There should be a point at which somebody has to 1438 01:56:57.520 --> 01:57:02.520 explain to somebody why it is you destroyed something that should be of like almost 1439 01:57:02.600 --> 01:57:05.680 no value that they're just putting on a checklist to add to a biography. 1440 01:57:06.279 --> 01:57:11.000 Why it is that a general sort of pedestrian thing. If the guy was 1441 01:57:11.079 --> 01:57:15.640 pushing a broom at atsugi. Okay, there should still be a file, 1442 01:57:16.039 --> 01:57:19.960 is all I'm saying. And what you're telling me is, yeah, seventy 1443 01:57:20.000 --> 01:57:25.600 five years, usually twelve, depending it depends on the agencies. But according 1444 01:57:25.640 --> 01:57:29.560 to these agencies, I think the settings they had put for this specific type 1445 01:57:29.560 --> 01:57:31.720 of military intelligence file was twenty five years, and at the time, that 1446 01:57:31.720 --> 01:57:34.279 would have pushed it into the eighties. Yeah, right, So they would 1447 01:57:34.279 --> 01:57:39.279 have had to hold it until after the agency right nineteen eighty eight, which, 1448 01:57:39.359 --> 01:57:43.039 by the way, there's still a nebulous investigation that occurs in nineteen eighty 1449 01:57:43.079 --> 01:57:46.000 eight that nobody can really put their entire finger on. That's supposedly run by 1450 01:57:46.039 --> 01:57:51.640 the DOJ, and all we have is that various people were interviewed and interacted 1451 01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:57.720 with individuals from the Department of Justice in nineteen eighty eight. Regarding the JFK 1452 01:57:57.800 --> 01:58:02.399 assassination the weirdest thing that I can never quite and and nobody's been able to 1453 01:58:02.439 --> 01:58:05.239 answer that question. I mean, I've had somebody try to answer it, 1454 01:58:05.359 --> 01:58:10.680 but they're they're they're full of themselves, and they make an inaccurate statement that 1455 01:58:10.800 --> 01:58:14.520 there was this investigation, and it's like, okay, well show me the 1456 01:58:14.600 --> 01:58:18.720 proof of said investigation. They can't show me that there was a directive launched 1457 01:58:18.840 --> 01:58:24.159 and that there was a effort, Like you know, there's no memos, 1458 01:58:24.239 --> 01:58:28.800 there's no memorialization of this. There's nothing that we can go get, is 1459 01:58:28.840 --> 01:58:31.960 all I'm saying. For this investigation in eighty eight, which again matches twenty 1460 01:58:32.039 --> 01:58:35.319 five years after the assassination. It was launched at the end of eighty eight, 1461 01:58:36.920 --> 01:58:41.039 from what I can tell, And there's some interesting you might have been 1462 01:58:41.119 --> 01:58:45.279 the public, the you know, revival and the public that could have could 1463 01:58:45.359 --> 01:58:47.079 you know, theoretically, I have no idea about it till you brought it 1464 01:58:47.159 --> 01:58:50.119 up. Yeah, theoretically, But theoretically, you would think that at some 1465 01:58:50.319 --> 01:58:55.680 point there is like a batch of files that basically says, here's are nineteen 1466 01:58:55.720 --> 01:58:59.439 eighty eight especially want to call? And we depended so heavily on paper. 1467 01:58:59.760 --> 01:59:03.840 Yeah, so something is weird there. But anyway back to this particular thing, 1468 01:59:04.720 --> 01:59:10.039 you have this agency which should not have destroyed it under all the rules 1469 01:59:10.119 --> 01:59:13.760 that they set forth, shouldn't have destroyed this stuff? And did you have 1470 01:59:14.159 --> 01:59:19.000 a whole lot of investigations being denied this information via that destruction from the Warrant 1471 01:59:19.000 --> 01:59:24.720 Commission all the way through to those committees in the seventies. You have political 1472 01:59:24.800 --> 01:59:30.439 turmoil, you have unrest in official circles. You have investigative agencies that could 1473 01:59:30.439 --> 01:59:32.800 have been looking at this, and committees that should have been looking at this 1474 01:59:33.479 --> 01:59:38.720 not being handed this stuff. And again I don't see a lot of questions 1475 01:59:38.800 --> 01:59:43.800 being asked, you know, where is the why don't I have the DoD 1476 01:59:43.960 --> 01:59:47.279 file? Even in the days when people were complaining about the CIA not releasing 1477 01:59:47.399 --> 01:59:56.039 anything, nobody said, hey, where's the DEA files? Where's it? 1478 01:59:56.079 --> 01:59:59.560 I'd like to see his military intelligence records please, you know, and even 1479 01:59:59.600 --> 02:00:02.039 the people to talk about as military they you know, I think maybe John 1480 02:00:02.079 --> 02:00:06.560 Newman has mentioned this maybe somewhere, but vaguely. I'm thinking it was in 1481 02:00:06.880 --> 02:00:11.920 Oswald and the CIA the book, but outside of that, and really not 1482 02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:15.680 talking about how all this stuff was wholesale destroyed. That's new. But the 1483 02:00:15.800 --> 02:00:18.800 idea that there's stuff missing from the two oh one, the idea that there's 1484 02:00:18.800 --> 02:00:23.359 a whole lot of things that you think would have been logically generated that simply 1485 02:00:23.479 --> 02:00:27.640 weren't or don't exist any longer. It's interesting, and I wonder if it 1486 02:00:27.760 --> 02:00:32.359 leads to greater other destructions, simply because again, nobody asked for the files. 1487 02:00:33.560 --> 02:00:36.239 I don't know. It's an open question and one that you're going to 1488 02:00:36.319 --> 02:00:40.359 keep working on. I guess anything we should say here in closing, Carmen, 1489 02:00:40.399 --> 02:00:43.319 because I've kind of taken you away over time, and I'm sorry about 1490 02:00:43.359 --> 02:00:46.199 that. Oh that's fine. I No, I think we've said everything needs 1491 02:00:46.239 --> 02:00:48.039 to be said. You know, I would tell people, you know, 1492 02:00:48.520 --> 02:00:53.760 do your best their keep looking if you can find the time. You know, 1493 02:00:53.960 --> 02:00:58.000 it is worth as I hope to have shown you when I pay my 1494 02:00:58.159 --> 02:01:00.720 visits here to the Ohl effect that it is. It is worth it. 1495 02:01:00.039 --> 02:01:04.840 You can't find gems. Occasionally there's a lot of dross and nonsense go through, 1496 02:01:04.960 --> 02:01:09.840 but there are good files out that there is information still to be developed, 1497 02:01:09.880 --> 02:01:12.079 and we have to put it together piece by piece. It's not going 1498 02:01:12.159 --> 02:01:16.239 to be an instance smoking gun situation. I know that's how some people want 1499 02:01:16.279 --> 02:01:18.800 it to be, but it'll never be like that. No cases ever like 1500 02:01:18.880 --> 02:01:26.560 that. It has to be it's the cold work and the long hours get 1501 02:01:26.640 --> 02:01:30.119 us closer to an answer exactly. And in two weeks what we will do 1502 02:01:30.520 --> 02:01:35.479 is rejoin the series JFK Assassination Myths with number seventeen. We're going to see 1503 02:01:35.479 --> 02:01:41.399 if we got enough meat on that bone to run a mids episode, and 1504 02:01:41.760 --> 02:01:45.560 I'm pretty sure we do. Mike Swatson will return, Carmin Sabastano will return 1505 02:01:45.760 --> 02:01:49.600 in two weeks to do that with me. Maybe we'll add a special guest. 1506 02:01:50.479 --> 02:01:54.359 I really want to. I discussed it with Carmine off air. We'll 1507 02:01:54.399 --> 02:02:00.640 see if we can do that and really just kick that Myths series into play 1508 02:02:01.560 --> 02:02:04.479 because people have been asking for it and I'll be more than happy to get 1509 02:02:04.520 --> 02:02:08.239 it out there. Plus, by the way, I've re released a couple 1510 02:02:08.359 --> 02:02:12.239 of them on the podcast Speed recently, so you noticed I didn't do a 1511 02:02:12.279 --> 02:02:15.279 few live shows this week. My throat was really bad, still kind of 1512 02:02:15.359 --> 02:02:19.439 bad, but working on it, and hopefully I'll be fine tomorrow night when 1513 02:02:19.479 --> 02:02:25.439 I go live again. But in two weeks we'll continue the JFK Myth series. 1514 02:02:25.960 --> 02:02:28.800 And for those of you that are signed up that are members at Ocelli 1515 02:02:28.880 --> 02:02:32.960 dot com who have been significant contributors to O'Kelly dot com and the ocell Effect, 1516 02:02:34.159 --> 02:02:40.239 guess what. The archive emails have started to go out. But if 1517 02:02:40.359 --> 02:02:43.680 you have not gotten on the list, you have not confirmed with me via 1518 02:02:43.800 --> 02:02:46.560 email that you want those sent to you, and you've been a supporter, 1519 02:02:47.279 --> 02:02:50.199 you know what you need to email me, And if you want to become 1520 02:02:50.239 --> 02:02:54.720 a supporter, you can sign up at O'Kelly dot com. There's ways to 1521 02:02:54.800 --> 02:02:58.159 do it. By the month ten bucks a month, you'll end up with 1522 02:02:58.560 --> 02:03:01.840 twelve months worth of these email to get you a decade's worth of podcast not 1523 02:03:02.039 --> 02:03:05.319 just the ones that I did, but the ones I produced and a lot 1524 02:03:05.359 --> 02:03:12.279 of bonus material including all of the MITS episodes up to this point, and 1525 02:03:12.800 --> 02:03:15.600 from twenty thirteen to twenty twenty three. You'll get all of that stuff over 1526 02:03:15.640 --> 02:03:18.319 the course of the year. You can do it at ten bucks a month, 1527 02:03:18.439 --> 02:03:21.000 or if you want to get on the supporter walllet ochelli dot com. 1528 02:03:21.479 --> 02:03:26.520 You can do that and make one bulk payment Boom, You're covered for the 1529 02:03:26.600 --> 02:03:30.720 year. Plus you have access to all that extra material and stuff that's only 1530 02:03:30.760 --> 02:03:34.600 available to members at ochelli dot com. You don't like signing up through my 1531 02:03:34.720 --> 02:03:40.560 website, there's a Patreon option if you sign up on Patreon for me and 1532 02:03:40.680 --> 02:03:44.279 become a patron, or hell, if you just make an arrangement with me 1533 02:03:44.439 --> 02:03:49.399 via email and a donation. It's not always money. Sometimes people have done 1534 02:03:49.439 --> 02:03:54.000 other things for me. You'll be on that list as well. And though 1535 02:03:54.119 --> 02:03:58.479 I do much appreciate any financial donation that comes to me, helps me to 1536 02:03:58.560 --> 02:04:00.199 keep things going. And we do have a couple of big bills coming up 1537 02:04:00.760 --> 02:04:04.439 in the next couple of months. And indeed, I'm planning on returning to 1538 02:04:04.520 --> 02:04:10.279 Dallas, so it looks like I'm being asked to MC the Lancer conference again. 1539 02:04:10.439 --> 02:04:13.920 So trying to fund everything, trying to get ready to go to Dallas 1540 02:04:14.359 --> 02:04:16.960 and do all that stuff once again and maybe hang out with some of you 1541 02:04:17.079 --> 02:04:20.760 in Dallas. If you can make it, be more than happy too. 1542 02:04:20.880 --> 02:04:26.279 I won't have as many goodies to give away, but I'll do my best, 1543 02:04:27.079 --> 02:04:30.640 and as per usual, I'm doing the best I can on these shows. 1544 02:04:30.680 --> 02:04:33.880 So hopefully you've enjoyed it. Hopefully you've gotten some good information from Mike 1545 02:04:33.920 --> 02:04:42.479 Swanson and Carlin Sabastano Tonight again tpaak dot com. That is Carmine's website, 1546 02:04:42.960 --> 02:04:49.039 Two Princes and a King that stands for the concise examination of three assassinations from 1547 02:04:49.079 --> 02:04:55.800 the nineteen sixties JFK RFK. There's your two princes and doctor Martin Luther King 1548 02:04:55.880 --> 02:04:59.920 Junior being the king in that title, but there's a lot more than just 1549 02:05:00.119 --> 02:05:05.199 that at the website. Carmine's also the author of another book, which we 1550 02:05:05.319 --> 02:05:10.279 may have arguments about at in a future show, but we will discuss it 1551 02:05:10.439 --> 02:05:14.920 at some point, but look forward to the myths in two weeks. I 1552 02:05:15.039 --> 02:05:18.800 look forward to more appearances with Carmine, and I'm certainly glad that any of 1553 02:05:18.880 --> 02:05:21.560 you have decided to listen to me, support the show or anything else, 1554 02:05:21.880 --> 02:05:26.479 even if you make a one time donation at Ocelli dot com. It is 1555 02:05:26.760 --> 02:05:30.560 all counting and all important, as inflation and everything else makes this harder and 1556 02:05:30.680 --> 02:05:35.079 harder to do, so just want all of you to know that I appreciate 1557 02:05:35.199 --> 02:05:39.359 you. Also thanks to Mike Swanson, who was not only a sponsored this 1558 02:05:39.439 --> 02:05:43.960 show, but appeared earlier and appears more often than any other guest in the 1559 02:05:44.159 --> 02:05:46.560 archive that you'll be able to get if you sign up at Ocelli dot com. 1560 02:05:47.199 --> 02:05:50.880 Mike Swanson, of course be in the no go to Wallstreet window dot 1561 02:05:50.960 --> 02:05:55.439 com. It's about a hell of a lot more than Wall Street geopolitics, 1562 02:05:55.520 --> 02:05:59.199 other current events, moneyes inded is covered there, but a whole lot of 1563 02:05:59.199 --> 02:06:04.960 stuff, including tonight's topic and the article that Carmine wrote regarding the destruction of 1564 02:06:05.000 --> 02:06:10.760 evidence by the DA. Anyway, no matter who you are, where you 1565 02:06:10.800 --> 02:06:14.319 are, when you are, I want you to remember that I am merely 1566 02:06:14.399 --> 02:06:17.800 o'helly, and all of you are indeed the effect. You're structor Shelley. 1567 02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:21.279 You know it's structure of Shelley. You are about doing mark upon the great 1568 02:06:21.319 --> 02:06:25.960 you say. The eyes of the world are upon you. The hopes and 1569 02:06:26.079 --> 02:06:30.680 prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you in company with our praise, 1570 02:06:30.800 --> 02:06:35.399 allies and brothers in arms. On the other front, your task will not 1571 02:06:35.520 --> 02:06:40.520 see an easy one. Your enemy is well trained, well equipped, and 1572 02:06:40.600 --> 02:06:46.399 battle heartened, he will fight that man demand. The tide has turned. 1573 02:06:47.239 --> 02:06:53.600 The free men of the world are marching together to vignoring good luck, and 1574 02:06:53.760 --> 02:06:58.199 let us all be seeking to plessing of almighty Gods upon this great and noble 1575 02:06:58.439 --> 02:07:00.640 Undertaking your fast