WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:06.240 If you don't like your lie, you could take full relief, go back 2 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:09.359 to the middle of the ferrway, take a one stroke penalty, and now 3 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:13.119 you go back thirty yards where everyone's hitting a seven iron. Now you're hitting 4 00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:17.239 a four iron and a shot penalty, simple casual water. Hit it out 5 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:19.920 of the water, don't like it, go middle of the faraway and go 6 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.800 back. Because I believe that relief should be relief. I'll give you an 7 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:27.399 example. I'm playing in the Alberta Open and on the ninth holt, I 8 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:30.440 hit my drive left and I was in grass that was this high, but 9 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:34.159 there were red steaks that were going through this grass, so it was a 10 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:38.520 lateral hazard. I took relieve and I dropped my ball and I'm still in 11 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:42.840 grass that's twelve inches tall. The reason that we go back thirty yards is 12 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.280 because when you go back thirty yards, nobody cares about where you drop the 13 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:51.200 ball. You're back there three clubs fard. Nobody cares when you're back there. 14 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:55.159 So we were getting around the golf course in a pro am format, 15 00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:58.640 two pros, two ameters, and we were getting around in three hours and 16 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:03.280 forty five minutes. Hi, this is Christopher Payne from Castle Creek, New 17 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.799 York, and I play at a Ford Hill Country Club. This is Golf 18 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:12.799 Smarter number nine four. The rules and equipment need to be different for amateurs. 19 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:19.959 With the always thought provoking John Erics. This is Golf Smarter, sharing 20 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:23.760 stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score 21 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:30.519 and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back 22 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.319 to the Golf Smarter podcast. John. It's great to be back. It's 23 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.719 great to have you back here. So much fun to have on the show 24 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:40.200 because you're never short of an opinion. That's right. I have lots of 25 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:48.000 opinions, right, It's abouts I have and the more they make sense to 26 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:52.680 you, Yeah, that's right. But your opinions are based on what you 27 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:57.000 feel is just common sense. Common sense. Yeah, common sense. That 28 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.599 My whole life is just based upon common sense. It doesn't make common sense. 29 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.599 I don't do it. Do you follow the news or do you just 30 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:07.319 follow the golf channel and then you look at it going That doesn't make sense. 31 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.439 I don't follow the golf channel. I mean, as far as I'm 32 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:15.879 concerned, golf is pretty much a different game as much as baseball and softball 33 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:20.560 would be different. So it'd be like I grew up playing baseball and everybody's 34 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.919 playing softball now or something. You know. So the game that I played 35 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:29.280 growing up, with high spinning ball, smaller heads, tighter courses, small 36 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.879 greens, it's quite different than what's going on now. So you know, 37 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:38.599 that's what I learned and geared myself to as I was playing as a professional. 38 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:42.360 You had to hit the ball straight, absolutely straight. If you couldn't 39 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.719 hit the ball straight, you weren't going to make cuts and you weren't going 40 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.319 to have a career. It was just that simple. It wasn't about how 41 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:52.800 far you hit. It was about hitting it a reasonable distance. You needed 42 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.000 to hit it. You needed to hit the ball two hundred and thirty yards 43 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.159 off the tee. If you never missed a faraway and you hit it two 44 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:00.960 thirty year in the game, you know, you could be you could have 45 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.680 a career, you could make you know, many millions of dollars playing golf. 46 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:10.560 But that's all gone now. So the distance thing is, you know, 47 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:15.680 they've changed the game to where there's much more emphasis on distance at the 48 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:22.039 pro level. The courses are much longer. As we know about you know, 49 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:27.039 what a championship course, US Open course was sixty sixty nine hundred when 50 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:29.800 I was growing up, and now it's what seventy four seventy three seventy four 51 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:35.879 hundred yards. The ball is going fifteen percent farther, So common sense would 52 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:39.639 tell me that the golf courses would need to be fifteen percent longer. So 53 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.800 if you took a sixty nine hundred yard course and made that fifteen percent longer, 54 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:47.919 it would be just under eight thousand yards. So until the courses are 55 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:53.159 eight thousand yards, then they'll get my attention again, because I believe that 56 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:59.159 golf should be a test of the entire skill set across the club. So 57 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.319 you should have to hit long irons into par fours three or four times around. 58 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:06.680 That's part of the game. Yeah, and we don't see that anymore. 59 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:12.879 I mean, if I see the pros hitting wedges into every part four, 60 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:17.560 even the longest par fours, that's a different game, right. Any 61 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:23.839 game or any sport is based upon the parameters of the field and the equipment. 62 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:26.839 So like a basketball court, you know, I don't know how many 63 00:04:26.839 --> 00:04:29.079 feet it is, you'd probably know, but I mean, they haven't changed 64 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:33.199 the size of the court right, since, yeah, football fields one hundred 65 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:38.120 yards, if they made the football field one hundred and fifty yards, well 66 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:42.000 it would change the game significantly, right, yes it would. Yeah. 67 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.920 So in golf, for some reason, the powers that be USGA, R 68 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.920 and A, you know, they've decided to allow this to happen for whatever 69 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:54.199 reason. But what it's done is it's changed the game. Just like if 70 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:57.800 you played chess and then you said, okay, well the ponds can now 71 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:04.079 move like rooks going to change the the characteristics of the of the equipment or 72 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:10.439 the pieces, right, So it's it's changed. They've changed. Uh, 73 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.519 they've changed the golf ball significantly. The golf ball. When I was playing 74 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:20.040 the old rubber ballotta balls, they were very high spinning balls, and if 75 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.720 you were a good player, you would play the spinniest ball you could possibly 76 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:31.600 get, which was usually a titleist made a very spinny ball. Most people 77 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:36.319 played titleists then. And the reason that you wanted to spin as a good 78 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:41.639 player is because you could you could shape and curve the ball more. And 79 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:44.600 the more you could shape and curve it, the more you could access certain 80 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.759 pin placements and that sort of thing. The pin was front left, I 81 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.720 could bring it in way from the right and I could have it hit in 82 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.079 the middle of the green and spin it back to that that front left pin 83 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:58.079 placement, where now it's it's a little bit more of a straight shot. 84 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.000 You know, you have to take everything kind of straight. You can. 85 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:02.639 The modern ball, you can. You can curve it. You can see 86 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.560 it with the flight tracers the ball. You can curve it up to the 87 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:11.480 apex and then it falls pretty much straight down. But when we were playing 88 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.560 the blott Is, we could curve it to the apex and continue to curve. 89 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:16.240 It was still curving as it would come into the green, so it'd 90 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:20.360 hit and skip left or right or whatever. And you could even do that, 91 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.920 you know, into the short irons and even little wedges and stuff. 92 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.560 You could really kind of curve them in and that sort of thing. So 93 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:30.920 that to me is more interesting, you know, as a player at a 94 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:35.000 ball striker, to learn how to shape the ball and to use that to 95 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:40.759 your advantage to navigate, you know, a narrow golf course with smaller greens 96 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.959 and well bunkered and that sort of thing. So it's quite it's quite different 97 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:47.399 now than it was. So they changed the ball, they've changed the clubs. 98 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:53.360 They've changed the shoes, the connection to the ground. We had steel 99 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:59.319 spikes. One of the interesting things, I mean, I find this fascinating. 100 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:05.800 Steel spike are still legal with the USGA. Does anybody wear them? 101 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:13.439 If you play in the US Open, you can wear steel spikes. Yeah, 102 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:15.319 on the PGA Tour, there's still a lot of guys using steel spikes 103 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.079 out there. From what I understand, they're legal on the PGA Tour. 104 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:23.600 What's strange is that ninety nine percent of the golf courses that you play don't 105 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:27.800 allow steel spikes. They're they're not legal at the golf course. It's like 106 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.560 a local orld, no steel spikes. So think of going to the bowling 107 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:38.279 alley and you show up with bowling shoes and they say, yeah, we 108 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:42.759 don't really allow bowling shoes in the bowling alley because you know, they kind 109 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.079 of scuff up the you know, the the lanes, and our maintenance guys 110 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:48.759 have to come and clean extra hours. And yes, so you know, 111 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.279 you just got to wear like regular tennis shoes and can't wear bowling shoes in 112 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:56.279 the bowling alley. I mean that that's absurd to me. It is that 113 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.480 I can't go out and play with steel spikes on you know, the majority 114 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:05.519 of golf course right because I need that connection as a dynamic ball striker myself. 115 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.360 I mean, I need a great connection to the ground. And the 116 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.759 flatter the golf swing is. The old gold golf swings were very flat, 117 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:20.959 more around the body, and that creates more lateral horizontal tensions in the ground. 118 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:24.439 So you need the steel spikes. The more upright swings, it's more 119 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.800 up and down. Your weight's going more up and down. The flatter swing, 120 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.440 the feed are wanting to go more like this because you're you're turning this 121 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.919 way and your feet are resisting the pressures this way. So you really need 122 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:41.000 steel spikes to grip. So I don't think it's a coincidence that golf swings 123 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:46.440 have become more upright as the connection to the grounds isn't what it used to 124 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.320 be with this plastic spike. So so they've changed the spikes, they've changed 125 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.639 the clubs. I mean, the you know, obviously the heads on a 126 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:58.840 driver are you know, they're like toasters or frying pans are huge. When 127 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:03.120 we were playing, they were, well, i've got a driver right here, 128 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:09.039 I just pick this beauty up here, Okay, this is a nineteen 129 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:16.080 I think, you know, fifty late fifties Ben Hogan Precision per Simon driver 130 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:22.720 and this sits at very flat at about fifty degrees the li angle. Modern 131 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:26.480 drivers are up over sixty sixty three degrees, you know, they're very like 132 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.879 upright like this. So this club is, you know, very flat. 133 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:37.120 And the face on this club is three inches wide and two inches high or 134 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:43.200 inch and a half maximum would be two inches. The deep face drivers would 135 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.840 be two inches, so this would be a little over an inch and a 136 00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:50.159 half and three inches wide. And that's the surface. And that was just 137 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:56.039 standard for golf clubs all the way till about the early nineties. So the 138 00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.879 question is should that have been a parameter of the game, Like this is 139 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:05.759 a golf club. These are the parameters in the Major League Baseball. You 140 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.039 couldn't just show up with a with a bath that's this big around, right, 141 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.159 They'd say, you know, you can't use that, right, I 142 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:18.000 mean, that's a whiffleball bat, big. I mean, baseball has parameters. 143 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:24.159 They're still using wood, you know in baseball at the pro level. 144 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:30.519 Yeah, And and nobody's up in arms about that, you know, is 145 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:35.320 that our archaic game. It's outdated. Blah blah blah. If if they 146 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:41.000 had if they came in with a titanium bat and it was really thick and 147 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:43.159 big like this a baseball, and they say, oh, it's dangerous to 148 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.039 the pictures. Well, we need to move the pictures mound back now, 149 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.519 right, they can say, well, let's move it back. Okay, 150 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:52.240 Well with the pictures mound back. Now, we got to make the bases 151 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:56.279 bigger. So we make because they just did last year. They made the 152 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:00.679 bases bigger. They made it longer. Oh no, no, no, 153 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:05.840 not from base to base, but they made each base three three inches larger. 154 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.759 Oh okay, all right, so it's easier to steal bases. Yeah. 155 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:15.679 Interesting. So and then I've talked with baseball people and they're saying that 156 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:22.159 the baseball is going six feet farther than it used to, but like thirty 157 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:28.720 years ago, six feet farther, So there's more more home runs. Plus 158 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:33.240 pictures are generally pictures are throwing a lot harder than they did thirty years ago, 159 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.320 so you're going to get more reaction off the bat. Yeah, so 160 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:41.639 right, that makes sense. But in golf, you know, the golf 161 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:48.679 ball is going you know, fifty yards farther, so as compared with six 162 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:54.679 feet you know, to fifty yards, so you know, but let's also 163 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.399 wait a minute. But on a baseball field, a home run is a 164 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:01.200 wedge, I mean, it's not that far when it comes. When you're 165 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.960 talking about golf, you know, so things are relative here. Listen, 166 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:07.960 we're going to take a quick time out. Well, we'll be back in 167 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:18.960 one minute. We'll continue this conversation at Controversy with John Ericson. Okay, 168 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:26.159 I'm sorry I interrupted you your thought on baseball going six feet farther, but 169 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:31.639 a golf ball has to go much for it is going much farther. Yeah, 170 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:37.039 the golf ball is going much farther. Percentage wise, I'm hearing it's 171 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:43.399 about fifteen percent farther. So in a baseball I'm not sure how far is 172 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:50.559 a home run fence anywhere from three hundred to close to four hundred feet. 173 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:58.919 Yeah, so it's even at three hundred feet, so fifteen fifteen percent of 174 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:03.320 that would be forty five feet forty five feet. Yeah, and they're talking 175 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.879 it's gone six feet farther, not forty five feet farther, right, See 176 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.879 the difference, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But so all these 177 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.840 numbers that you're talking about, and the rules and you know, the spikes, 178 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:22.840 all that stuff that is all directed at point oh one percent of golfers, 179 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:30.240 the most elite golfers in the world, and there's ninety nine point nine 180 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:35.600 to eight of the rest of us playing that aren't dealing. We can't deal 181 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.000 with that, but want to go out and play and want to enjoy it. 182 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.279 I agree. I don't think there should be these kind of restrictions on 183 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.320 the eminateur golfers at all. I mean, just like, so you're a 184 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.039 bifurcation fan, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean just like baseball. 185 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:56.000 I mean, how many people play recreational baseball mostly softball, right, like 186 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:00.279 the corporate league or that sort of thing. You know, you play softball, 187 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.799 right, you know, and it's a similar game. It's if you 188 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.039 were in the stands. You took someone from a foreign country that didn't know 189 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.320 our culture and you put them in the stands and they were to watch a 190 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:13.000 baseball game in a softball game, they probably think it was the same game, 191 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.120 right, you know, until you narrow it in and say, well, 192 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.519 the ball is different, and the bats different, the gloves are different, 193 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.799 and the bases are all different. There's no mound, and you know 194 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.039 it's and then they start. Baseball is very simple until you try to explain 195 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:31.679 it. Yeah, so it's a game, and games are limited by the 196 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.279 by the parameters, and that's what makes them interesting. Chess is interesting because 197 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:39.080 the ponds can only do you know, what they do, and the rooks 198 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.080 and everything, they're limited. The pieces are limited. That's what makes it 199 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.879 interesting. And I view golf the same way. You know that it's it's 200 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:52.559 the restrictions that make the game interesting to me. So do you think that 201 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.919 amateurs and recreational players because you know, we could be talking about major league 202 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:03.679 level or guys on the tour versus his club champions who can be scratch golfers, 203 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.279 but they're still not even close to being able to compete on a PGA 204 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:13.080 level. Yeah, that's right. But what the pro Tour does is it 205 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.240 it's kind of a it sets the bar. It sets an example. Like 206 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.200 like, why when somebody goes out to a golf course you see amateurs in 207 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.720 their back playing the championship T's right, why are they doing that? I 208 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.440 had no idea Because they want to play where the pros play. You know, 209 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:31.519 they want to see what it's like to be you know, the pros 210 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.120 play. You know, they want to do what the pros. The pros 211 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:39.279 do because right and they have to pull out a hybrid or a fairway wood 212 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:43.559 for their second shot, where the pros are hitting a nine iron. Yeah, 213 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.159 I'll give you an example when when I was growing up as a kid, 214 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.080 so let's say in the nineteen and seventies. I was born in sixty 215 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.080 four, so my dad took me out, say nineteen seventy four, when 216 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.279 I'm ten years old. Nice, and my dad was a club champion at 217 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:02.960 the course. You know, okay, okay, scratch player. Scratch used 218 00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:07.039 to mean that your average was that you would shoot para that was average, 219 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:08.799 like if it was par seventy two. His stroke average was seventy two. 220 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.039 He was a scratch player. The handicaps this was crazy, now, but 221 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:15.840 that was you know, it was like ten rounds. You'd throw one or 222 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.960 two rounds out. You take those eight rounds and then average those and then 223 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.440 that was your handicap. It was very simple. Yeah, but my dad 224 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:29.240 was not a particularly long hitter. He hit the ball about two hundred and 225 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:33.519 thirty two hundred and thirty five yards off the tee and we would go out 226 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.240 and watch the LA Open or and this is what the old balls, right, 227 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.600 we're talking about with the with the persimmon woods and the old balls. 228 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.320 And my dad would like, we'd go out and watch someone like Tom Kite 229 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.279 or someone like that. And my dad was like, Wow, I hit 230 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.039 the ball about the same distance tom Kite does, you know. So in 231 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:57.639 other words, my dad could actually relate to the distance that the pros were 232 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.960 hitting. And he thought, well, you know, if I sharpen up 233 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:03.319 my short game and get a little better, you know, at this, 234 00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:07.000 and that I could maybe play the pro tour, Like I could maybe try 235 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.599 and qualify for the LA Open and as an amateur and get in and play 236 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.920 in the tournament or something and actually compete against these guys. That's not really 237 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.799 realistic for most people now when they see somebody hitting the ball three hundred and 238 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:25.759 fifty yards, it's just there's such a disconnect. It's a huge disconnect. 239 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.400 But in the old game, you know, the average up all the way 240 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.960 in through the nineteen eighties, the average distance that a tour player hit it 241 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:37.559 was was I think two hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty three yards, 242 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.640 and it went to two hundred and fifty six yards I think by the end 243 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:47.440 of the eighties, before the game really changed with the modern clubs and everything. 244 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.759 The longest hitter on the PGA Tour in the early eighties, I think 245 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.200 it was in nineteen eighty two John McComish, who I knew, was a 246 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:03.160 player, and he was the longest hitter and he was averaging two hundred and 247 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.759 seventy two yards. I think to seventy two is the longest hitter. Wow. 248 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.720 Wow, And now that would be the shortest hitter on the PGA Tour. 249 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:17.680 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. R So the courses have changed, and 250 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:25.039 you have all these beautiful, amazing golf courses that are sixty six, sixty 251 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.039 seven, sixty eight hundred yards. I mean Pebble Beach was sixty seven hundred 252 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:33.240 yards sixty eight hundred yards for many many years until they've changed it. So 253 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:37.559 to have to lengthen these classic courses, you know, the people will say, 254 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.759 well, it's easy to just you know, lengthen the courses move the 255 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:45.079 te's back, but some courses can't do that because they're only on one hundred 256 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.000 and it's real estate. It's limited. Yeah, Look, at the problems 257 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:52.440 they had at Augusta. They had to purchase land on thirteen from the you 258 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.599 know, the golf course next door, move the tee back or whatever. 259 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:02.720 But there's there's another thing that people aren't understanding and and it has to do 260 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:07.799 with in the old game, we were shaping the ball off the tee to 261 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.240 fit the ball into these farawores, like curving the ball. So if you 262 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:15.359 move the ball, if you move the tees back fifty yards, I can't 263 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.400 shape the ball around the corner. I have to hit a straight shot out 264 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.160 to the corner. But if the teas were up, I could kind of 265 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:23.079 sneak it around the corner, like I could turn and curve the ball and 266 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:26.880 draw it around the corner. I noticed this when Brad Hughes and I, 267 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.359 you know, played Olympic Club together a few years ago and we said, 268 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.119 well, look, we were playing for Cimon and Blades out there, and 269 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:36.200 we said, let's just play it at sixty eight hundred. So we just 270 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:40.519 played the course from where it used to be, and we were noticing, 271 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:44.640 you know, how beautiful it was set up to where you could sneak the 272 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.400 ball around these corners, you know, drawing and fading it off, the 273 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.519 team working, and everything was about working and shaping the ball at the Olympic 274 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.400 Club. But then we'd look back and we'd see some tea box like one 275 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.279 hundred yards back there. So what were you playing from the white teas? 276 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:02.079 Yeah, so we would go back there and it's like, Okay, with 277 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.920 a modern driver, you can't curve it around this corner. I mean you're 278 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:10.720 gonna have to hit a straight shot out to that corner, but up over 279 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:15.519 the top. But you can't get it around the corner by shaping the ball. 280 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.920 So and to me, that makes the game less interesting because I like 281 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.640 shaping the ball. That's what it is exciting about golf is to learn. 282 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.440 First you learn how to hit the ball straight, and then you learn how 283 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.759 to curve the ball and shape the ball not only off the tee but into 284 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.079 the greens. And then dealing with the different trajectories of the shots, like 285 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:40.559 if we take the if we take the Masters, for example, everybody knows 286 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:45.880 the famous back nine. Okay, so ten and eleven used to be long 287 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.839 irons into those holes. You're coming in with a low trajectory shot. That's 288 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:53.000 why there's no bunkers in front of the green it was meant to be. 289 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.440 You could skip the ball onto the green. You could land it short or 290 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:00.799 on the front of the green. And the greens are fair narrow, but 291 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.880 they're deep, okay, they're and they're designed that way to accept a low 292 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.640 trajectory shot into the green. Now, if you take fifteen, thirteen and 293 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:15.160 fifteen the par fives, those greens are wide, but they're very shallow and 294 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:19.599 they're protected in the front with water, right, so the same you're coming 295 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:23.279 in with again with a low trajectory shot because they're both reachable in two. 296 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:27.880 But it's much more exciting as a par five when a guy's hitting a two 297 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:32.680 iron in and the things coming in there, you know, blazing in there 298 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:36.119 with a low trajectory. Can't he stop it on the green? You know, 299 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:37.839 coming in low and if it doesn't, it can skip over the green. 300 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.799 And on the fifteen, I think there's water over the greening and up 301 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:47.160 over there. So those would be par fives because they were they offered a 302 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.000 risk and reward. You're coming in with a low trajectory, very scary shot 303 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:55.359 to be hitting a two iron into a green with water in the front. 304 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:59.400 That and the green is very shallow and the ball's coming in low. I 305 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.240 mean when I I would watch that tournament as a kid, I felt kind 306 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:06.000 of nervous, you know. I remember watching Sevy and maybe in nineteen eighty 307 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:10.200 six or something, and he was coming in. He's playing with Tom Watson, 308 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.279 and they're coming in with these two iron one iron, you know, 309 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:18.279 coming into these greens. And now when they're hitting, you know, I 310 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.519 remember seeing Phil Nicholson, the kid eight irony in you know, so the 311 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:29.400 ball's coming in high and it just lands on the green and stops on ten 312 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:32.839 and eleven. They come in with short irons now, so they're just coming 313 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.799 in with short irons, and I actually saw guys back in the ball up 314 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:38.240 on the green like it would hit on number ten. They could spin the 315 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:44.440 ball back. That never ever happened in the past. They were always coming 316 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.480 in with the longer irons, unless on ten they could really cut that again, 317 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:53.200 curving the ball around that corner with a persimmon driver and a blot of 318 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:56.599 ball, get it to come down the left side down that hill, and 319 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.440 they can maybe come in with like a five or six iron. You know, 320 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.160 then you had a big advantage. So all that strategy and the shaping 321 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:07.559 and the trajectory and the curving that it's not. It's not that it doesn't 322 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.079 exist now, it's just not as much like not it was much more about 323 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.559 curving and shaping the ball. So that part of the game has changed dramatically, 324 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.480 made it really a different game. Yeah. Well it also is the 325 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.799 design, the art, what the architect did. But we're gonna talk about 326 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.960 that more. But I want to take another quick time out. We'll right 327 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:36.640 back, right, So, when you were talking about these par fives that 328 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.759 that are, you know, the second shot is going to be a two 329 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.519 iron, a three iron. It's gonna be low and coming into a green 330 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.400 that's not deep, so you've got to land it soft. It's really the 331 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.920 architect saying this is going to be a three club. You know, par 332 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:55.200 five. You're not going to be able to get there in two because you're 333 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:59.880 gonna miss, right. Is that is that the architect involved in this? 334 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.720 Yeah, that's the that's really the whole thing of the golf course. Right. 335 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:08.519 You have this common sense again that if it's one shot to the green 336 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.960 in two pots, that's a par three. Two shots, it's a par 337 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:15.160 four three shots, it's a par five, right, the par fives would 338 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:21.799 A good par five usually would maybe tempt you to go for the green in 339 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:26.960 two, so there might be water fully protected in the front. Right. 340 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.039 A bad design would be a par four where you would have to come in 341 00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:36.160 with a long iron, but it were fully protected in the front by bunkers 342 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.319 or water in the green with shallow and we used to call that kind of 343 00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:41.319 like a Mickey mousehole. You know, it's just like this bad design. 344 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:48.559 You know, it's not fair because a good golf course should be playable under 345 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.359 most any conditions. You know, whether it's in the afternoon, in the 346 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.559 summer and it gets dried out, if the greens get firm and you can't 347 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:00.480 hold the ball on the green, if you're coming in with a long eye 348 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.240 and you simply can't hold the ball on the green because it's coming in with 349 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.759 a low trajectory, and then you've got some kind of death bunker over the 350 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.200 backside of the green or something. I mean, it's just an unplayable hole. 351 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.559 It's not fair, right, So the great golf courses were were designed 352 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:21.160 to be able to be played under wet and Soggi conditions and firm and heart 353 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.640 A perfect example would be Cypress Point. I mean, I know not many 354 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:27.160 people have played there, but I've had the fortune to have played Cypressmen many 355 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.720 times because my sponsors or members out there, so I got to play out 356 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:36.720 there. In fact, I played there recently, and it's just a fantastic 357 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:42.480 golf course because Cypress Point can play very difficult when it's soggy and wet, 358 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:47.400 and also when it's when it's hard and firm, but it's always there. 359 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:49.000 If you hit a good shot, you get rewarded. You hit a bad 360 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:55.759 shot, you get punished, and that's best golf should be. I'll give 361 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:59.480 you an example when I when I went on the Canadian Tour in nineteen ninety 362 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:04.039 one shot seventeen under there. I was never on a par five into the 363 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:08.599 whole week, not because I was a short hitter. I was a little 364 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:15.240 longer than average. I was probably in the seventieth percentile of distance you know, 365 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:19.440 of the tour players, probably seventy seventy five percentile, never on a 366 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:25.440 par five and two the whole week. But shooting seventeen under, every one 367 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:29.960 of those birdies that I made was a one putt green. I mean I 368 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.359 had to earn it. I had to earn those birdies. When I see 369 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:37.319 the pros hitting mid iron into a par five and two putting for birdie, 370 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.240 it's not a birdie I mean in my mind, because they're hitting the ball 371 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.480 on the green and two shots with a mid iron. That's a part four. 372 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:52.000 It's a part four. So the tour is basically playing par sixty eights 373 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.440 every week relative to when I was playing. Because if you're hitting the ball 374 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.920 on the green in two with the mid iron, that's a part four. 375 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.960 I'm sorry, it's a par four. It's a par sixty eight. So 376 00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:06.680 when I see sixty five, to me, that's sixty nine when I was 377 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.640 playing. You know, you see all these low scores. Oh you know, 378 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.440 someone shots sixty four, it's like, well, they're playing a par 379 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.880 sixty eight. That's like a part that's a I mean, they're playing par 380 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:22.559 sixty eight, so they're four under par. That's like me shooting a sixty 381 00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:26.240 eight on a par seventy two when I was playing. So when you were 382 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:33.279 playing versus today, when you're talking about these guys hitting the ball three hundred 383 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:38.359 and fifty yards off the tee, are the players a lot younger today than 384 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.000 they were then? You can see a lot of guys coming up in their 385 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.920 twenties, and just last week an amateur one on the tour for the first 386 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.960 time forever. I was really happy to see that. Yeah, that was 387 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.440 awesome, and then that he said, yeah, I'm not going to play 388 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:56.079 next week. I want to go back home, right, And it's very 389 00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.039 exciting to have an amateur win. But you're seeing more more and more players 390 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:07.160 in their early twenties, which when you were playing, did that exist? 391 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.200 Were there a lot of young players like that coming out of college? And 392 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.880 well, yeah, there's there were always hot shots coming out of college that 393 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:18.240 would come out and do well right away. I mean Phil Nicholson did really 394 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.880 well right out of college. Tiger right right, Okay, So you know 395 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.599 it's like saying when you talk about basketball, it's like, oh, Michael 396 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:27.720 Jordan did well. Yeah, so he's the unicorn, you know, like 397 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:33.160 he's the anomaly. It's not the rule. But what I liked about the 398 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.680 old game better and I think it's it's it should be, you know, 399 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:44.039 true, is that you could develop experience. Right, So when you were 400 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:45.559 in your forties, you know, it's like, hey, you know, 401 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:51.519 you've been playing these tournaments for twenty years. Right, So if you're playing 402 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:55.039 four rounds and a practice round in a pro am, you're playing that course 403 00:28:55.160 --> 00:29:00.640 six times a year right over the course of twenty years. So you're playing 404 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:06.359 someone's got one hundred and twenty rounds on this course. And the guy's you 405 00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:08.920 know, forty years old, he's and he's play he's played this course one 406 00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.240 hundred and twenty times, and I'm showing up there for the first time. 407 00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:17.119 There's an equalizer there, right. Maybe the guy doesn't hit it quite as 408 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.440 far as as he used to, but he's got all the local knowledge. 409 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.279 He knows where to hit and how to play the course. And that enabled 410 00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:29.559 the older players to still be you know, competitive against the young guys because 411 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:32.599 they could have experience on their side, you know, of knowing the golf 412 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.359 course. And the other thing too, because the golf ball going a percentage 413 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:44.519 farther it actually it actually hurts the short hitters even more because the longer guys 414 00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.160 are picking they're hitting it even farther percentage wise. Right. So a guy 415 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.000 who hit let's just say you hit a ball two hundred yards and you add 416 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:56.240 you know, fifteen percent to that, so you're picking up thirty yards, 417 00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:02.359 right, but if you hit it three h yards, you're picking up forty 418 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.039 five yards. So the gap is just bigger and bigger and bigger. The 419 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.559 longer the ball goes and all this, the gap it just gets bigger and 420 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.200 bigger and bigger. But back when I was playing, you know, the 421 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:21.480 short hitters hit it to thirty. The longest hitters hit it to seventy. 422 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:26.160 You know, but your average guy was too fifty. So if you were 423 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.440 a short hitter, you were only twenty yards behind the average tour player. 424 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:36.480 So if you hit every faraway, you're a guy like Corey Paven was a 425 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.079 guy that just the guy just never missed a faraway. I mean I played 426 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:42.640 with Corey many times. I don't ever remember him just you know, mapping 427 00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:45.640 one into another faraway or something. I mean, if he was in, 428 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.119 if he missed a ferry, it was just he was off by a yard 429 00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:51.440 ors you know, it was just trickled into the rough or something. But 430 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.039 I can't ever remember him ever even missing a Faraohy but he only hit the 431 00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.559 ball about two hundred and twenty five thirty yards with a driver. But when 432 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.720 I was a freshman in college, he was a senior. I was playing 433 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:07.000 number one man at Fresleent State as a freshman, and he was number one 434 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.519 man at UCLA, So we got paired together a lot. Every time we 435 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:15.200 got paired with UCLA, I was playing with Corey Paven and you know, 436 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.240 it was it was incredible to see how good he would play. He would 437 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.880 shoot. I remember him shooting sixty six at Stanford Course, hitting the ball 438 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.759 two hundred and twenty five yards off the t shot sixty six out there, 439 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.519 and that was a long, hard course, you know, back then. 440 00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.400 And he won seven college tournaments that year. He was Collegiate Player of the 441 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:37.359 Year. And he was a guy hitting it two hundred and twenty five to 442 00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:41.079 two hundred and thirty yards off the tee and there were guys that were hitting 443 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:45.920 it to seventy. You know, Duffy Waldorf at UCLA was really long at 444 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.960 the time. Davis Love, you know, I played against in the sun 445 00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:53.880 Ball and you know, incredibly long hitter. But Corey Paven would beat all 446 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:59.599 these guys. So there's something you know, beautiful about that. Actually. 447 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.400 You know, on the PGA Tour, you had Tom Kite winning a US 448 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.799 Open, your Cheechi Rodriguez. You had guys that didn't the real game. 449 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:08.920 Even Lee Trevina wasn't a real long hitter, you know, relative to some 450 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:13.960 of these other guys. So if you hit it short and straight, you 451 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.319 could compete against someone that was long and wild with a high spinning ball. 452 00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:22.319 The longer hitters had trouble keeping the ball in play because the ball spun so 453 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.480 much more so if they missed it a little bit, they were off in 454 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:29.680 the trees. I mean, you hit a ball out of bounds, or 455 00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:31.960 you make a double bogie once or twice around because you're hitting it long, 456 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:36.519 you don't need you're not gonna want to hit it that long. You know 457 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.160 you're going to try and rein it back and get it in the ferryway. 458 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:43.319 And so it kind of kept the whole kept all the horses kind of a 459 00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:45.160 lot closer at the finish. You know, everything was a lot kind of 460 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:52.680 closer in there because the long hitters weren't all that great necessarily, and the 461 00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.799 short hitters that were in the ferry all the time kind of had an advantage. 462 00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:00.400 So I think that was a thing that made golf more of an equal 463 00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.599 opportunity for people. And I think that's a good thing. If you if 464 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.359 you're at if you were small and petite and you know, you only weigh 465 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.160 one hundred and thirty five pounds or something. But if you could just laser 466 00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:14.279 that thing down there, you could make a career out of golf. And 467 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.920 I think that's a good thing, you know. And now it's everyone kind 468 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:20.680 of looks like, you know, they're like a super athletes out they're lying 469 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.559 by everyone's you know, you know, fit and just all that sort of 470 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.000 thing. You don't see the you know, back in the seventies you had 471 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.000 guys with big beer bellies out there, and you know, Bob Murphy and 472 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:37.720 Craig Stadler and Roger Malty. They look like they'd be cutting the grass next 473 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:39.880 door in your in your neighborhood. You know, you could, you know, 474 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:43.400 you could sit there and relate to these guys. You know, it's 475 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.960 like the look, it looks like he looks like my neighbor at he's out 476 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:53.559 there. I think because I guess ultimately golf was a game, right, 477 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.960 a game, and it's now become more of a sport. I mean, 478 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:02.359 you wouldn't find the difference, well, there is a difference. You wouldn't 479 00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:07.159 consider chess to be a sport right, it's a game. It's a game. 480 00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:12.440 Monopoly is a game? It does. Does the sports require a ball? 481 00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:22.280 I think? I mean, would you consider croquet a sport? Probably 482 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:25.440 to those who are serious about it? How about how about pool shooting? 483 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:29.039 Pool, billiards? Any kind of billiards game? Is that a sport? 484 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.079 It might be on the sports channel, but it's not. It doesn't take 485 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:36.960 any physical characteristic. You don't have to be big and strong or whatever. 486 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:38.320 You just be able to need to be tall enough to get up and over 487 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:45.920 to you. You know, it takes an eye, it's but it's coordination, 488 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:49.719 it's you know, I mean an eye and steadiness. I mean there 489 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:53.000 are elements to it. Is is archery a sport or is it a game? 490 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:58.599 Right? You could debate this for yeah, you could. You could 491 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.519 debate these things. But my point really is that golf was I think more 492 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:08.039 on the game side where it didn't require any specific physical characteristics. Like if 493 00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:13.000 you're a horse jockey, I mean you can't weigh three hundred pounds right, 494 00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:16.519 right, I mean it takes us if you're a basketball player and he pretty 495 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:21.960 much gotta be six or four minimum, right, or you know, unless 496 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.119 you're stuff or something but I mean Steph Curry six. I mean, it's 497 00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:28.719 not like, yeah, he's a short guy, right, he looks teeny 498 00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.920 out there at So the beauty of golf is that, you know, you 499 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:37.599 had a guy like Cheechi Rodriguez it was probably what five six weighed one hundred 500 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:40.320 and twenty five pounds or something out there, you know, and then you 501 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:44.119 would have a guy like, you know, George bar there was six six 502 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.480 and weigh you know, two hundred and eighty pounds or something. You know, 503 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:52.239 you could have these guys competing against each other, and chee Chi Rodriguez 504 00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:57.000 want a lot more tournaments than George Barre. Ever, did you know people 505 00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:59.440 go watch George Barre because he hit the ball. You could hit a persimmon 506 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:01.480 driver and a lot of ball three hundred yards and people were just that was 507 00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:04.639 just amazing, you know. But it was fun to watch. But he 508 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.599 didn't you know, he wasn't in the winter circle very often, right, 509 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.320 But I think that was a good thing for golf. You could pretty much 510 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:14.199 you could be tall and thin like George Archer. You could be short and 511 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:20.320 fat like Roger Malty. You know, you could be any any You could 512 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.599 be anything, really, and be out there and now it's not as much 513 00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:28.480 that way. Everybody looks pretty fit and they really turned it into a sport, 514 00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.840 which I'm not saying that that competition is right. I mean, it's 515 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:35.480 all about the competition. You got to you know, play up to the 516 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:40.119 competition and if they're going to be in top physical shape for the stamina, 517 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:44.800 for the you know, the mental game and everything else that goes with that, 518 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:47.800 yeah, you have you have to compete that way. Let's take another 519 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:57.920 time out. We'll bred back the guys that you played with in college, 520 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:04.519 that stuck around the tour and that you played with early in your career as 521 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:09.480 well. They transitioned into new gear, right, they had to make that 522 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:14.480 transition. Yeah, some did and some didn't as well. I mean I 523 00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:21.719 know some of the guys didn't transition very well. Really yeah yeah, like 524 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:27.360 like what they just flesh that out for me because I don't know where to 525 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.119 go with that, but yeah, well I think you know some players, 526 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:36.360 well I'll take for instance, Bradley Hughes. I don't know, say, 527 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.880 if you had Bradley on your show, no, okay, should I yeah 528 00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:45.239 you should. So Bradley won the Australian Masters twice played on the President's Cup. 529 00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:51.960 He he's a good friend of mine and he was telling me that I 530 00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:57.519 think it was nineteen ninety seven, ninety six, ninety seven. There was 531 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.880 a stat called total driving, which was a combination of distance and accuracy. 532 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:07.079 And he led the PGA too, was number one for two years on the 533 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:12.960 on the PGA tour. And then they changed the clubs came out with a 534 00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:19.599 they changed the ball took a big jump, and the frying pan, big 535 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:22.039 headed drivers got bigger and all this stuff, and he just stuck with the 536 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:28.679 same you know, equipment, and all of a sudden, all these guys 537 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:34.639 just passed them up, you know, just all this just so it wasn't 538 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.480 really a matter of skill. It was just the equipment changed, right. 539 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.639 I mean, if you look at Tiger, I mean, he was by 540 00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:44.360 far the longest hitter when he first came out. I mean, it was 541 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.800 he just had a huge advantage. But that was that was the topic of 542 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:52.159 conversation. Wow, look at how far he's hitting the ball. And then 543 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:57.599 everybody else kind of figured things out and pretty soon he's just another guy out 544 00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.480 there, right, I mean, he became just a not average, a 545 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:02.199 little longer than average, but there were plenty of guys that are hitting it 546 00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:06.559 as far as he was, if not farther, you know, so he 547 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:12.679 kind of lost his advantage. I mean, the technology, if you homogenize 548 00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.880 something, it's it's it brings everything kind of closer together. Right, So 549 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:25.800 if you give the high tech equipment to people that allows certain players based upon 550 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:30.679 their swings and their swing speeds, there's a trampoline effect that comes in off 551 00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:35.360 the face that shoots the ball out farther, this kind of thing. But 552 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.960 the longer hitters tend to get a little more trampoline effect coming off off the 553 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:45.920 club face than somebody the shorter. So the shorter hitters actually get punished with 554 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.159 some of this stuff. Right. So my point being that if you had 555 00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:52.440 a guy that was a shorter hitter, even giving him the tech, the 556 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:58.840 new technology, it's not necessarily helping him as much because he's he's he's picking 557 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:00.719 up distance, but not as much much as the longer hitters are. Right 558 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.840 when you're talking about equipment some people transitioning, I think some of the shorter 559 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:10.960 hitters didn't transition well because equipment wasn't it was helping them relative to what they 560 00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:15.239 used to be, but not relative to their competition, because it's competition now 561 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:19.440 they're hitting it even farther, right, So it's just like if everybody's hitting 562 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:23.159 the ball ten percent farther, well, the shorter hitter is he's not getting 563 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.519 as much yardage off his ten percent as a guy who's hitting it much farther. 564 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:31.639 He's getting his ten percents bigger. Ten percent of three hundred is a 565 00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:36.000 bigger number than ten percent of two fifty, right, ten percent of two 566 00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:38.480 fifty twenty five yards three hundred yard guys now hitting at three three thirty, 567 00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:46.760 So he's actually picking up another five yards from the guy. So it getting 568 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:51.000 back to what you were saying that your average golfer like with a new ball, 569 00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:52.800 you when we talk about that, you know this this rolling back the 570 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:59.719 ball, I'm totally against that, really absolutely against it. I'm I think 571 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:06.679 it's a terrible, a terrible thing to take that away. Maybe at the 572 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:12.039 pro level, fine, but for the amateurs, what are they doing. 573 00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:16.639 Nobody wants to hit the ball shorter, that's crazy, So why not have 574 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:23.079 a tour ball? You know, but if they really wanted to solve the 575 00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:27.480 problem, they're not looking at the ball. They got to look at the 576 00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:30.800 driver. That's the problem, the problem. It's not the golf ball, 577 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:37.320 it's the driver. If you have the longer the club given the same weight, 578 00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:40.400 you're going to hit it farther. If at the club's longer. If 579 00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:47.159 my driver's eleven ounces, if it's forty four inches and it's eleven ounces compared 580 00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:52.840 with forty six inches at eleven ounces, I'm going to hit the forty six 581 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:57.599 inch driver longer. Because it's just like like a like a record going around 582 00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.159 on a record player. You know, you watch the inside's going like this, 583 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:06.119 but the outside's really moving faster. Right. The RPMs are the same, 584 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:10.559 but the velocity of the outside edge is more than it is going around 585 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:16.440 like this spindle. Yeah, but if you have more control with that forty 586 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:21.039 four inch shaft versus a forty six Yeah, But when there's no trees on 587 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:23.280 the golf course and the fairways are you know, eighty yards wide, like 588 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:28.920 this last US Open at La Country Club, It's like, what was that? 589 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.800 I mean, you know, I played La Country Club when I was 590 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:37.199 a kid many times, and that was a fairly narrow course. But they 591 00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:39.760 went in there and they cut down like thousands of trees out there, and 592 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:43.199 they turned it into like a Lynx kind of looking car. It's like, 593 00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.920 what are they doing? You know that? That's I didn't even recognize the 594 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:47.280 golf course, Like what is this? And guys are hitting it all over 595 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:52.639 the place out there. You know. US Open used to be narrow and 596 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.760 thick grass and if you were just a little bit off, you were hitting 597 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:01.559 at it. You know, you grass anymore, you know they So it's 598 00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:07.239 the USGA, it's an organization, it's their tournament. They can do what 599 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.840 they want. I'm not for me as a spectator playing the old game. 600 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:15.960 And I played in three US Amateurs, so you know, I didn't play 601 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.320 in the US Open, but I played in three US Amateurs, made the 602 00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:23.960 quarterfinals and eighty three, so I took it pretty far into that got to 603 00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:29.000 play in some of that grass. It was like this, and it was 604 00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:31.920 really narrow and you had to hit it straight. And if you were in 605 00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:37.280 that grass, you weren't thinking about getting it on the green. You were 606 00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.159 just thinking about wedging it out and getting it back into the faraway. And 607 00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:43.239 I have to decide do I want to kind of wedge it out down the 608 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:45.400 right side of the ferry so I can hit my little pit shot in to 609 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:50.480 that back left pin place when I wasn't making birdies from the rough. But 610 00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:55.119 I remember seeing Rory McElroy when he won was it a Congressional maybe ten years 611 00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:59.519 ago or whenever that was, And I remember him like hitting it in the 612 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:05.000 raw on Sunday and making two or three birdies the final round out of the 613 00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:09.079 rough in the US Open. And because the rough wasn't that deep, and 614 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:13.079 I even took some pictures on it and put it on the advanced ball striking 615 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.039 side, it just showed like the rough was like this. And then I 616 00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:17.480 had a picture at Tom Watson at seventeen and he chipped in, you know 617 00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:24.039 the goose with this, you know this thick stuff. They change it for 618 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:30.519 some reason. The PG twur the usg They don't really want to see high 619 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.960 scores, you know, they don't like the US Open words. You know, 620 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:36.960 guys are shooting over par or anything like that, or par is a 621 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.079 good score in the US So they don't want that. They for marketing reasons 622 00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:43.519 or whatever, they just like to see the lower numbers. I think it's 623 00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:47.800 more exciting for the public or whatever. I played Congressional in the fall this 624 00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:53.280 past fall. I could not believe my nephew is a member there. I 625 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:59.239 could not believe the rough. I was like, wow, this is punishing. 626 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:04.519 I bet it probably wasn't that punishing, and that us opens that I 627 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:07.039 saw, you know, birdies being made out of the roughs. I mean, 628 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:08.519 could you imagine making birdies out of the rough when you played there? 629 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:13.840 No? Probably not. No, I couldn't imagine hitting birdies there. I 630 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:15.960 think I got one. So the ball, Yeah, I don't think the 631 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:22.000 ball should be you know, rolled back. Not for the general public. 632 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.239 I think that the modern drivers are just fine. You know, for the 633 00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.079 modern players. They want to hit, you know, because they're they're just 634 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.639 playing on the weekend and you know, they need a big head and you 635 00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.119 know, long and light and you just they just want to smack it out 636 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.000 there and just be able to kind of play golf. And that's fine. 637 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:44.119 But for the but the pro tour, that's really what kind of sets the 638 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.679 example. And if you're really serious about it, if the pros were still 639 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:51.480 playing for Simon and blades and a blot of golf ball, I bet you 640 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.800 would see more people doing that at the amateur level, just because they'd like 641 00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:58.519 to see what that's like, I want to play the pro game, you 642 00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.760 know. Well, also you're going to have people, you know, they're 643 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.800 not going to be playing that equipment just when they get to the tour. 644 00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:09.800 They have to like train on that equipment for years. Yeah. Yeah, 645 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:14.480 so they're going to play that to try to get there. And you're not 646 00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:17.960 going to see a ten year old kid now Like I have a nephew whose 647 00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:23.760 son is nine and obsessed with golf, Well, he's going to be playing 648 00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:27.360 the most modern equipment. He's not going to be like, well, I'm 649 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.599 going to be training for the training for the PGA Tour for you know, 650 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:34.599 when I when I'm an adult, and so I need to play with lesser 651 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.519 equipment against my competition because he is competing already. Yeah, it doesn't It 652 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.920 doesn't make any sense at all. What needs, what I think needs to 653 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:46.800 happen is there should be a professional tour that is a persimon and blade tour. 654 00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:51.360 You know, that's just it wouldn't be the money that the PGA Tour 655 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:54.960 or Live or something like that, but you might be able to go out 656 00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.079 in the summer and play half you know, play half a dozen or ten 657 00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:01.559 tournaments or something, and you know, maybe make a couple hundred thousand dollars 658 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.599 or something, and that'd be okay for a lot of people. That'd be 659 00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:07.039 good. Hey, I'm playing golf and I pick up one hundred thousand bucks 660 00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:12.199 or so, not so bad. You know. Well the problem with that 661 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.320 is is, you know, we've had conversation with Barney Adams and he says, 662 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:20.880 the PGA Tour is nothing more than a TV show and what you're proposing 663 00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:25.840 is not great television compared to what's out there now. And that means less 664 00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:32.079 money, less prize money, you know, less sponsors. It's sub I 665 00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:37.719 don't know. Would would it be less entertaining? I mean it might. 666 00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:43.800 It could be very entertaining. I think because people love to life forever, 667 00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:47.880 they could relate to it more. You know, like, wow, these 668 00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:52.159 guys are only hitting the ball two hundred and fifty yards. I can do 669 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:55.320 that or I'm close to doing that. You know, like that it could 670 00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:59.320 be of interest to people, I think. I mean, golf was You 671 00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:04.039 have to remember golf was very popular in that area. You had Arnold Palmer 672 00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:07.920 and you know, I mean you can look back at pictures of US Opens 673 00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.360 and Masters and a lot of people were attending those events back then. It 674 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:15.000 was right, But was it golf was popular or Palmer was popular? You 675 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.679 know, it was it golf was popular, a tiger was popular. There's 676 00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:22.599 always going to be a charismatic figure, right, So if you had a 677 00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:28.320 pursuit, there's going to be some guy out there that's going to be really 678 00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.440 charismatic and people are you know, it might just be the way he dresses, 679 00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:35.079 the way he throws tempered tantrums out there, or whatever. People are 680 00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.800 gonna you know, there's always going to be personality, you know, and 681 00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:45.639 I think you're going to have that. But golf was not an unpopular game. 682 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:50.440 It's it's much more popular now than it was. I mean the first 683 00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:55.400 ticker tape parades were Bobby Jones. Yeah, Bobby Jones was the most popular 684 00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.559 athlete in the nineteen twenties and he was an amateur. I think it would 685 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:05.480 be interesting to buy for Kate the game and to just it would just solve 686 00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.320 all the problems that people are talking about it. It's like if you it 687 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.559 would create new ones. If you want to play the roll back ball, 688 00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:15.119 you go play the Percimin Tour, you know, play the classic courses, 689 00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:17.039 all those great courses that people talk about, all of a sudden, they're 690 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.199 relevant again. They're played properly. The bunkering is correct. You hit the 691 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:23.440 ball, You got to hit it between these bunkers. You can't fly at 692 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:30.079 fifty yards over the bunkers. And we did a couple events down in Las 693 00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:35.159 Vegas TRGA events. I think we did three or four of them down there 694 00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:37.039 at the old Sahara Country Club, and we played per Simmon and Blades, 695 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:43.079 and we played a low spinning, not a low spinning, a low compression 696 00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:45.880 golf ball that didn't go as far. And now everybody's sitting the ball too 697 00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:51.159 fifty again, and now the bunkers were in back in position again. You 698 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:53.360 had to hit it, you know, work the ball between the bunkers and 699 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:57.800 the greens. Played correctly, and everybody had a great time. And it 700 00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.480 was a pro tournament. There was prize money, and we just you know, 701 00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:02.559 there was no USJ official out there because we just had our We did 702 00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:07.960 our own tournament. We just had our own rules and we just rule. 703 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:15.480 We made the rules simple to where the entire rules of golf in the TRJ 704 00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:20.639 it was one page. So in other words, you play it as it 705 00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:25.079 lies period. Okay. If you don't like your lie, you're on a 706 00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:30.159 sprinkler, head, a cart path, whatever, you could take full relief. 707 00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.519 So that meant you would go back to the middle of the fairway. 708 00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:37.280 You would take a one stroke penalty, and now you go back thirty yards. 709 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.440 Okay, So where everyone's hitting a seven iron, now you're hitting a 710 00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:45.719 four iron and a shot penalty. Simple, don't like your lie, casual 711 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:49.119 water, hit it out of the water. Don't like it, go middle 712 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.400 of the faraway and go back your decision. Do you want to take a 713 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:57.360 shot penalty? Because I believe that relief should be relief in other words, 714 00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:00.559 I'll give you an example. I'm playing in the Alberta Open. This would 715 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:07.079 have been about maybe nineteen eighty eight. I said, okay, and on 716 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:12.320 the ninth holl I hit my drive left. I hooked it left and I 717 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.320 was in grass that was this high, okay, about twelve twelve inches. 718 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:22.840 This is an audio podcast. Yeah, but the steaks there were red steaks 719 00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:28.280 that were going through this grass, so it was a lateral hazard. I 720 00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:32.239 took relief and I dropped my ball. Okay, I had to take a 721 00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:36.639 penalty. Two club lengths. I dropped my ball and I'm still in grass. 722 00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:43.400 That's that's twelve inches tall. Ouch ouch right beat. In other words, 723 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:47.079 I didn't really get relief. Yeah, or I could go back to 724 00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:51.079 the tea, take stroke and distance. So, in other words, what 725 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:52.840 we did and we said, if you're in that situation, you don't We 726 00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:59.280 don't even need steaks on the course, so you don't need red steaks or 727 00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:00.719 yellow steaks. I'd look at that ball and say, you know what, 728 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:04.079 I don't want to play this. I'm going to go back to the fairway, 729 00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:06.920 take a shot, penalty, go back thirty yards. The reason that 730 00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:09.679 we go back thirty yards is because when you go back thirty yards, nobody 731 00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:14.280 cares about where you drop the ball. Nobody's like, hey, you're dropping 732 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:17.719 it over. You're back there three clubs far. Nobody can when you're back 733 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:22.280 there, nobody they see you way back, they're hitting a foe iron. 734 00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:25.800 They don't care. So we were getting we were getting around the golf course 735 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:30.800 in a pro am format, two pros, two amateurs, pro am format, 736 00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:34.079 and we were getting around in less than four hours, three hours and 737 00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:37.639 forty five minutes. Wow. Yes, So you want to talk pace of 738 00:52:37.719 --> 00:52:43.920 play great. You know you want to talk simplifying the rules, Play it 739 00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:46.960 as it lies. I had, I had one shot. My ball was 740 00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:53.320 I had to stand on a cart path and I decided to hit the ball. 741 00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:57.960 I didn't take the relief. You know, I didn't want to take 742 00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:01.400 a shot penalty and go back. Now if depending on what I'm comfortable with, 743 00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:05.159 I could have just taken a wedge and just sort of chipped it forward 744 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:07.719 right. But I took out a two wood. I had a good lie. 745 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.719 It was a par five, and I took a rip at it. 746 00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:15.320 I kind of lost my balance a little bit, but I'd hit it perfect, 747 00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:17.079 rolled up on the green eight feet from the pin, and I made 748 00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:22.079 eagle. Wow. I took the lead. I took the lead at that 749 00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:28.400 point in the tournament. Wow. So my point is that that way you 750 00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:30.760 put everything on the player, like do you want to play it or not? 751 00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.960 You know, if the ball's plugged in a bunker underneath the lip, 752 00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.639 right, I don't want to do this. I'll take the shot penalty. 753 00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:43.920 I'll go back thirty yards, hit a wedge in take a shot penalty, 754 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:51.840 full relief. Now is this traditional? Actually it is. When we traced 755 00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:59.000 back to the Golf Club of Leith in Scotland. They had a distance penalty 756 00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:04.360 written into the room rules distance penalty that if you hit the ball into the 757 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:12.360 watchery filth you would go back six yards or more interesting, it was actually 758 00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:15.119 a distance penalty. So we thought, well, let's just go back thirty 759 00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:17.039 yards and then we'll just shut everybody up. Six yards. People say, 760 00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:22.119 well, it's not six yards, that's you only went four yards. Somebody's 761 00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:23.920 going to argue with you no matter what. Thirty yards, no arguments. 762 00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:28.920 We got around three hours and forty five minutes. So you know, and 763 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:32.639 it's a beautiful way to play the game. Uh, it's it's quick and 764 00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:36.400 it just puts the decisions on the people what they want to do. And 765 00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:40.679 you don't need a rules official out there. There's no rules officials, you 766 00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:45.800 know. So and it was a professional tournament. We had real prize money 767 00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:50.880 and you know, everyone was just playing the classes gear and everyone had a 768 00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.159 great time. So this is what I this is why I love having you 769 00:54:55.239 --> 00:55:00.280 on the show. I prepared myself. I wrote seven different topics that we 770 00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:05.639 that we could cover in an episode. I checked off one of them. 771 00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:08.079 Yeah, let's talk about what do you want to talk about live or you 772 00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:15.840 want to talk about No, it's time to go. So do you still 773 00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:22.559 have a website? Do you even't care? What's your website? Our website 774 00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:29.039 is Advanced ball Striking dot com. Excellent. And next time you're on, 775 00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:32.960 I want to get more of your history of you know, you playing professionally 776 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:38.920 after college and that, and I'm sure we'll never get to it because I'll 777 00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:43.840 throw out one topic and that'll be the next hour. I played. I 778 00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:46.480 played seven years, I played four years on the Australian Tour, seven years 779 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:50.719 in Canada, played a little bit in the US, and I won once 780 00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.280 on the Canadian Tour. A decent, you know, career, but that 781 00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:58.280 was that's about it. I was a good journeyman guy, basically a good 782 00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:01.000 good guy, making huts and that sort of thing. But I realized I 783 00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.960 wasn't going to be you know, Greg Norman after playing against him at that 784 00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:09.039 time, I was like, no, different ballgame. Yeah, wow, 785 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:13.679 that sounds up my pro career. But I found I can teach a game 786 00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:17.119 pretty well. Awesome. John lag Ericson, John, Great to talk to 787 00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:20.719 you again, man, Talk to you soon. Happy New Year. Okay, 788 00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:27.840 we'll see you so I'm currently in Costa Rica for a couple of weeks 789 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:31.239 with a group of close friends to celebrate my wife's seventieth birthday. But that 790 00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:35.840 doesn't mean we have to skip any episodes, right. I was able to 791 00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:39.800 survive my back and arm pain and have new shows, so why should this 792 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:45.199 keep me quiet? Still haven't started swinging my golf clubs yet, but hopefully 793 00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:51.880 we'll start that once I return. Did you see my unboxing and first impressions 794 00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:55.400 of my new lab Golf DF three point zero putter? Hmmm? Check it 795 00:56:55.400 --> 00:57:01.719 out on any social media platform including YouTube shorts Golf Smarter. I've already got 796 00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:07.000 interviews for the next couple of episodes lined up, and next week we'll meet 797 00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:12.159 an instructor friend of doctor Greta Anderson, and his name's John Marshall, who, 798 00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.360 in addition to being a golf instructor, has competed in the Senior's Long 799 00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:21.000 Drive competitions. Can't wait to talk to him about that, and then after 800 00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:25.639 that we'll talk to course architect Augie Pisa again about his unique and fascinating thoughts 801 00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:30.880 on golf course design. This week's golf Smarter Ambassador is Christopher Payne of Castle 802 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:35.760 Creek, New York, and he plays at Fort Hill Country Club. Let's 803 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:38.840 hear from you because I want you to take advantage of getting a free gift 804 00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:44.679 for something you may not think about buying for yourself. By being a Golf 805 00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:49.239 Smarter Ambassador, you'll be given a choice of three great gifts to choose from, 806 00:57:49.280 --> 00:57:52.280 and like Christopher, you can choose Tony Manzoni's video of the Lost Fundamental, 807 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:57.400 or you may want to get a glove and glove storage compartment from redroostergolf 808 00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:00.760 dot com. And our third and newest this option is an a pack of 809 00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:07.599 flightpathgolf ties from flightpathgolf dot com. All you have to do is introduce an 810 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.119 upcoming episode by telling us where you're from and where you play. Just write 811 00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:15.639 directly to me and I'll send you simple instructions on how to record. Check 812 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:20.639 out today's show notes to find links about each gift you have to choose from. 813 00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:24.840 If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for upcoming episodes, 814 00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:29.719 or you want to join our list of Golf Smarter Ambassadors who've received a free 815 00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:34.440 gift, write to Golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com or click on the 816 00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:37.840 Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com,