1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:06,240 If you don't like your lie, you could take full relief, go back 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,359 to the middle of the ferrway, take a one stroke penalty, and now 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,119 you go back thirty yards where everyone's hitting a seven iron. Now you're hitting 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,239 a four iron and a shot penalty, simple casual water. Hit it out 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,920 of the water, don't like it, go middle of the faraway and go 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,800 back. Because I believe that relief should be relief. I'll give you an 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,399 example. I'm playing in the Alberta Open and on the ninth holt, I 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,440 hit my drive left and I was in grass that was this high, but 9 00:00:30,519 --> 00:00:34,159 there were red steaks that were going through this grass, so it was a 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,520 lateral hazard. I took relieve and I dropped my ball and I'm still in 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,840 grass that's twelve inches tall. The reason that we go back thirty yards is 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,280 because when you go back thirty yards, nobody cares about where you drop the 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,200 ball. You're back there three clubs fard. Nobody cares when you're back there. 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,159 So we were getting around the golf course in a pro am format, 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,640 two pros, two ameters, and we were getting around in three hours and 16 00:00:58,679 --> 00:01:03,280 forty five minutes. Hi, this is Christopher Payne from Castle Creek, New 17 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:06,799 York, and I play at a Ford Hill Country Club. This is Golf 18 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:12,799 Smarter number nine four. The rules and equipment need to be different for amateurs. 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,959 With the always thought provoking John Erics. This is Golf Smarter, sharing 20 00:01:19,079 --> 00:01:23,760 stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score 21 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:30,519 and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,319 to the Golf Smarter podcast. John. It's great to be back. It's 23 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,719 great to have you back here. So much fun to have on the show 24 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,200 because you're never short of an opinion. That's right. I have lots of 25 00:01:40,239 --> 00:01:48,000 opinions, right, It's abouts I have and the more they make sense to 26 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:52,680 you, Yeah, that's right. But your opinions are based on what you 27 00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:57,000 feel is just common sense. Common sense. Yeah, common sense. That 28 00:01:57,079 --> 00:02:00,599 My whole life is just based upon common sense. It doesn't make common sense. 29 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,599 I don't do it. Do you follow the news or do you just 30 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,319 follow the golf channel and then you look at it going That doesn't make sense. 31 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,439 I don't follow the golf channel. I mean, as far as I'm 32 00:02:10,439 --> 00:02:15,879 concerned, golf is pretty much a different game as much as baseball and softball 33 00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:20,560 would be different. So it'd be like I grew up playing baseball and everybody's 34 00:02:20,599 --> 00:02:23,919 playing softball now or something. You know. So the game that I played 35 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:29,280 growing up, with high spinning ball, smaller heads, tighter courses, small 36 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,879 greens, it's quite different than what's going on now. So you know, 37 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,599 that's what I learned and geared myself to as I was playing as a professional. 38 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,360 You had to hit the ball straight, absolutely straight. If you couldn't 39 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,719 hit the ball straight, you weren't going to make cuts and you weren't going 40 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,319 to have a career. It was just that simple. It wasn't about how 41 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,800 far you hit. It was about hitting it a reasonable distance. You needed 42 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,000 to hit it. You needed to hit the ball two hundred and thirty yards 43 00:02:55,039 --> 00:02:59,159 off the tee. If you never missed a faraway and you hit it two 44 00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:00,960 thirty year in the game, you know, you could be you could have 45 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,680 a career, you could make you know, many millions of dollars playing golf. 46 00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:10,560 But that's all gone now. So the distance thing is, you know, 47 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,680 they've changed the game to where there's much more emphasis on distance at the 48 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:22,039 pro level. The courses are much longer. As we know about you know, 49 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,039 what a championship course, US Open course was sixty sixty nine hundred when 50 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,800 I was growing up, and now it's what seventy four seventy three seventy four 51 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:35,879 hundred yards. The ball is going fifteen percent farther, So common sense would 52 00:03:35,919 --> 00:03:39,639 tell me that the golf courses would need to be fifteen percent longer. So 53 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,800 if you took a sixty nine hundred yard course and made that fifteen percent longer, 54 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,919 it would be just under eight thousand yards. So until the courses are 55 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:53,159 eight thousand yards, then they'll get my attention again, because I believe that 56 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:59,159 golf should be a test of the entire skill set across the club. So 57 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,319 you should have to hit long irons into par fours three or four times around. 58 00:04:02,919 --> 00:04:06,680 That's part of the game. Yeah, and we don't see that anymore. 59 00:04:06,759 --> 00:04:12,879 I mean, if I see the pros hitting wedges into every part four, 60 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,560 even the longest par fours, that's a different game, right. Any 61 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,839 game or any sport is based upon the parameters of the field and the equipment. 62 00:04:24,199 --> 00:04:26,839 So like a basketball court, you know, I don't know how many 63 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,079 feet it is, you'd probably know, but I mean, they haven't changed 64 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:33,199 the size of the court right, since, yeah, football fields one hundred 65 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,120 yards, if they made the football field one hundred and fifty yards, well 66 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,000 it would change the game significantly, right, yes it would. Yeah. 67 00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:46,920 So in golf, for some reason, the powers that be USGA, R 68 00:04:46,959 --> 00:04:49,920 and A, you know, they've decided to allow this to happen for whatever 69 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:54,199 reason. But what it's done is it's changed the game. Just like if 70 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,800 you played chess and then you said, okay, well the ponds can now 71 00:04:57,879 --> 00:05:04,079 move like rooks going to change the the characteristics of the of the equipment or 72 00:05:04,079 --> 00:05:10,439 the pieces, right, So it's it's changed. They've changed. Uh, 73 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,519 they've changed the golf ball significantly. The golf ball. When I was playing 74 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,040 the old rubber ballotta balls, they were very high spinning balls, and if 75 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,720 you were a good player, you would play the spinniest ball you could possibly 76 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:31,600 get, which was usually a titleist made a very spinny ball. Most people 77 00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:36,319 played titleists then. And the reason that you wanted to spin as a good 78 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:41,639 player is because you could you could shape and curve the ball more. And 79 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,600 the more you could shape and curve it, the more you could access certain 80 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,759 pin placements and that sort of thing. The pin was front left, I 81 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:49,720 could bring it in way from the right and I could have it hit in 82 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,079 the middle of the green and spin it back to that that front left pin 83 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,079 placement, where now it's it's a little bit more of a straight shot. 84 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,000 You know, you have to take everything kind of straight. You can. 85 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,639 The modern ball, you can. You can curve it. You can see 86 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:06,560 it with the flight tracers the ball. You can curve it up to the 87 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,480 apex and then it falls pretty much straight down. But when we were playing 88 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,560 the blott Is, we could curve it to the apex and continue to curve. 89 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,240 It was still curving as it would come into the green, so it'd 90 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:20,360 hit and skip left or right or whatever. And you could even do that, 91 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,920 you know, into the short irons and even little wedges and stuff. 92 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:28,560 You could really kind of curve them in and that sort of thing. So 93 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,920 that to me is more interesting, you know, as a player at a 94 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,000 ball striker, to learn how to shape the ball and to use that to 95 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,759 your advantage to navigate, you know, a narrow golf course with smaller greens 96 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,959 and well bunkered and that sort of thing. So it's quite it's quite different 97 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:47,399 now than it was. So they changed the ball, they've changed the clubs. 98 00:06:48,439 --> 00:06:53,360 They've changed the shoes, the connection to the ground. We had steel 99 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:59,319 spikes. One of the interesting things, I mean, I find this fascinating. 100 00:06:59,399 --> 00:07:05,800 Steel spike are still legal with the USGA. Does anybody wear them? 101 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:13,439 If you play in the US Open, you can wear steel spikes. Yeah, 102 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,319 on the PGA Tour, there's still a lot of guys using steel spikes 103 00:07:15,319 --> 00:07:18,079 out there. From what I understand, they're legal on the PGA Tour. 104 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,600 What's strange is that ninety nine percent of the golf courses that you play don't 105 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,800 allow steel spikes. They're they're not legal at the golf course. It's like 106 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,560 a local orld, no steel spikes. So think of going to the bowling 107 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:38,279 alley and you show up with bowling shoes and they say, yeah, we 108 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,759 don't really allow bowling shoes in the bowling alley because you know, they kind 109 00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:46,079 of scuff up the you know, the the lanes, and our maintenance guys 110 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:48,759 have to come and clean extra hours. And yes, so you know, 111 00:07:48,759 --> 00:07:51,279 you just got to wear like regular tennis shoes and can't wear bowling shoes in 112 00:07:51,279 --> 00:07:56,279 the bowling alley. I mean that that's absurd to me. It is that 113 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,480 I can't go out and play with steel spikes on you know, the majority 114 00:07:59,519 --> 00:08:05,519 of golf course right because I need that connection as a dynamic ball striker myself. 115 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,360 I mean, I need a great connection to the ground. And the 116 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,759 flatter the golf swing is. The old gold golf swings were very flat, 117 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:20,959 more around the body, and that creates more lateral horizontal tensions in the ground. 118 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,439 So you need the steel spikes. The more upright swings, it's more 119 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:28,800 up and down. Your weight's going more up and down. The flatter swing, 120 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,440 the feed are wanting to go more like this because you're you're turning this 121 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,919 way and your feet are resisting the pressures this way. So you really need 122 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,000 steel spikes to grip. So I don't think it's a coincidence that golf swings 123 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,440 have become more upright as the connection to the grounds isn't what it used to 124 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,320 be with this plastic spike. So so they've changed the spikes, they've changed 125 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,639 the clubs. I mean, the you know, obviously the heads on a 126 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:58,840 driver are you know, they're like toasters or frying pans are huge. When 127 00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:03,120 we were playing, they were, well, i've got a driver right here, 128 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:09,039 I just pick this beauty up here, Okay, this is a nineteen 129 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:16,080 I think, you know, fifty late fifties Ben Hogan Precision per Simon driver 130 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:22,720 and this sits at very flat at about fifty degrees the li angle. Modern 131 00:09:22,759 --> 00:09:26,480 drivers are up over sixty sixty three degrees, you know, they're very like 132 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,879 upright like this. So this club is, you know, very flat. 133 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:37,120 And the face on this club is three inches wide and two inches high or 134 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:43,200 inch and a half maximum would be two inches. The deep face drivers would 135 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,840 be two inches, so this would be a little over an inch and a 136 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:50,159 half and three inches wide. And that's the surface. And that was just 137 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:56,039 standard for golf clubs all the way till about the early nineties. So the 138 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,879 question is should that have been a parameter of the game, Like this is 139 00:10:00,919 --> 00:10:05,759 a golf club. These are the parameters in the Major League Baseball. You 140 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:09,039 couldn't just show up with a with a bath that's this big around, right, 141 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,159 They'd say, you know, you can't use that, right, I 142 00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:18,000 mean, that's a whiffleball bat, big. I mean, baseball has parameters. 143 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:24,159 They're still using wood, you know in baseball at the pro level. 144 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:30,519 Yeah, And and nobody's up in arms about that, you know, is 145 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:35,320 that our archaic game. It's outdated. Blah blah blah. If if they 146 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:41,000 had if they came in with a titanium bat and it was really thick and 147 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,159 big like this a baseball, and they say, oh, it's dangerous to 148 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,039 the pictures. Well, we need to move the pictures mound back now, 149 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,519 right, they can say, well, let's move it back. Okay, 150 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:52,240 Well with the pictures mound back. Now, we got to make the bases 151 00:10:52,279 --> 00:10:56,279 bigger. So we make because they just did last year. They made the 152 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,679 bases bigger. They made it longer. Oh no, no, no, 153 00:11:00,919 --> 00:11:05,840 not from base to base, but they made each base three three inches larger. 154 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,759 Oh okay, all right, so it's easier to steal bases. Yeah. 155 00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:15,679 Interesting. So and then I've talked with baseball people and they're saying that 156 00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:22,159 the baseball is going six feet farther than it used to, but like thirty 157 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:28,720 years ago, six feet farther, So there's more more home runs. Plus 158 00:11:28,799 --> 00:11:33,240 pictures are generally pictures are throwing a lot harder than they did thirty years ago, 159 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,320 so you're going to get more reaction off the bat. Yeah, so 160 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,639 right, that makes sense. But in golf, you know, the golf 161 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:48,679 ball is going you know, fifty yards farther, so as compared with six 162 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:54,679 feet you know, to fifty yards, so you know, but let's also 163 00:11:54,799 --> 00:11:58,399 wait a minute. But on a baseball field, a home run is a 164 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,200 wedge, I mean, it's not that far when it comes. When you're 165 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,960 talking about golf, you know, so things are relative here. Listen, 166 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:07,960 we're going to take a quick time out. Well, we'll be back in 167 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:18,960 one minute. We'll continue this conversation at Controversy with John Ericson. Okay, 168 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:26,159 I'm sorry I interrupted you your thought on baseball going six feet farther, but 169 00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:31,639 a golf ball has to go much for it is going much farther. Yeah, 170 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:37,039 the golf ball is going much farther. Percentage wise, I'm hearing it's 171 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:43,399 about fifteen percent farther. So in a baseball I'm not sure how far is 172 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:50,559 a home run fence anywhere from three hundred to close to four hundred feet. 173 00:12:52,039 --> 00:12:58,919 Yeah, so it's even at three hundred feet, so fifteen fifteen percent of 174 00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:03,320 that would be forty five feet forty five feet. Yeah, and they're talking 175 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,879 it's gone six feet farther, not forty five feet farther, right, See 176 00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:11,879 the difference, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But so all these 177 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,840 numbers that you're talking about, and the rules and you know, the spikes, 178 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:22,840 all that stuff that is all directed at point oh one percent of golfers, 179 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:30,240 the most elite golfers in the world, and there's ninety nine point nine 180 00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:35,600 to eight of the rest of us playing that aren't dealing. We can't deal 181 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,000 with that, but want to go out and play and want to enjoy it. 182 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,279 I agree. I don't think there should be these kind of restrictions on 183 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,320 the eminateur golfers at all. I mean, just like, so you're a 184 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,039 bifurcation fan, yeah, absolutely, yeah. I mean just like baseball. 185 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:56,000 I mean, how many people play recreational baseball mostly softball, right, like 186 00:13:56,039 --> 00:14:00,279 the corporate league or that sort of thing. You know, you play softball, 187 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,799 right, you know, and it's a similar game. It's if you 188 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,039 were in the stands. You took someone from a foreign country that didn't know 189 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,320 our culture and you put them in the stands and they were to watch a 190 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,000 baseball game in a softball game, they probably think it was the same game, 191 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:18,120 right, you know, until you narrow it in and say, well, 192 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,519 the ball is different, and the bats different, the gloves are different, 193 00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:22,799 and the bases are all different. There's no mound, and you know 194 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,039 it's and then they start. Baseball is very simple until you try to explain 195 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:31,679 it. Yeah, so it's a game, and games are limited by the 196 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,279 by the parameters, and that's what makes them interesting. Chess is interesting because 197 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,080 the ponds can only do you know, what they do, and the rooks 198 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,080 and everything, they're limited. The pieces are limited. That's what makes it 199 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,879 interesting. And I view golf the same way. You know that it's it's 200 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:52,559 the restrictions that make the game interesting to me. So do you think that 201 00:14:52,679 --> 00:14:56,919 amateurs and recreational players because you know, we could be talking about major league 202 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,679 level or guys on the tour versus his club champions who can be scratch golfers, 203 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,279 but they're still not even close to being able to compete on a PGA 204 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:13,080 level. Yeah, that's right. But what the pro Tour does is it 205 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,240 it's kind of a it sets the bar. It sets an example. Like 206 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,200 like, why when somebody goes out to a golf course you see amateurs in 207 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,720 their back playing the championship T's right, why are they doing that? I 208 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:30,440 had no idea Because they want to play where the pros play. You know, 209 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,519 they want to see what it's like to be you know, the pros 210 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,120 play. You know, they want to do what the pros. The pros 211 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:39,279 do because right and they have to pull out a hybrid or a fairway wood 212 00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:43,559 for their second shot, where the pros are hitting a nine iron. Yeah, 213 00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:46,159 I'll give you an example when when I was growing up as a kid, 214 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,080 so let's say in the nineteen and seventies. I was born in sixty 215 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,080 four, so my dad took me out, say nineteen seventy four, when 216 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,279 I'm ten years old. Nice, and my dad was a club champion at 217 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:02,960 the course. You know, okay, okay, scratch player. Scratch used 218 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,039 to mean that your average was that you would shoot para that was average, 219 00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:08,799 like if it was par seventy two. His stroke average was seventy two. 220 00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:14,039 He was a scratch player. The handicaps this was crazy, now, but 221 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,840 that was you know, it was like ten rounds. You'd throw one or 222 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,960 two rounds out. You take those eight rounds and then average those and then 223 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,440 that was your handicap. It was very simple. Yeah, but my dad 224 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:29,240 was not a particularly long hitter. He hit the ball about two hundred and 225 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,519 thirty two hundred and thirty five yards off the tee and we would go out 226 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,240 and watch the LA Open or and this is what the old balls, right, 227 00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:41,600 we're talking about with the with the persimmon woods and the old balls. 228 00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:45,320 And my dad would like, we'd go out and watch someone like Tom Kite 229 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,279 or someone like that. And my dad was like, Wow, I hit 230 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,039 the ball about the same distance tom Kite does, you know. So in 231 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,639 other words, my dad could actually relate to the distance that the pros were 232 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,960 hitting. And he thought, well, you know, if I sharpen up 233 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,319 my short game and get a little better, you know, at this, 234 00:17:03,359 --> 00:17:07,000 and that I could maybe play the pro tour, Like I could maybe try 235 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:11,599 and qualify for the LA Open and as an amateur and get in and play 236 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,920 in the tournament or something and actually compete against these guys. That's not really 237 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,799 realistic for most people now when they see somebody hitting the ball three hundred and 238 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:25,759 fifty yards, it's just there's such a disconnect. It's a huge disconnect. 239 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,400 But in the old game, you know, the average up all the way 240 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,960 in through the nineteen eighties, the average distance that a tour player hit it 241 00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:37,559 was was I think two hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty three yards, 242 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,640 and it went to two hundred and fifty six yards I think by the end 243 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:47,440 of the eighties, before the game really changed with the modern clubs and everything. 244 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,759 The longest hitter on the PGA Tour in the early eighties, I think 245 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,200 it was in nineteen eighty two John McComish, who I knew, was a 246 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:03,160 player, and he was the longest hitter and he was averaging two hundred and 247 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,759 seventy two yards. I think to seventy two is the longest hitter. Wow. 248 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,720 Wow, And now that would be the shortest hitter on the PGA Tour. 249 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,680 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. R So the courses have changed, and 250 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:25,039 you have all these beautiful, amazing golf courses that are sixty six, sixty 251 00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:27,039 seven, sixty eight hundred yards. I mean Pebble Beach was sixty seven hundred 252 00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:33,240 yards sixty eight hundred yards for many many years until they've changed it. So 253 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,559 to have to lengthen these classic courses, you know, the people will say, 254 00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:40,759 well, it's easy to just you know, lengthen the courses move the 255 00:18:40,799 --> 00:18:45,079 te's back, but some courses can't do that because they're only on one hundred 256 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:48,000 and it's real estate. It's limited. Yeah, Look, at the problems 257 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:52,440 they had at Augusta. They had to purchase land on thirteen from the you 258 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,599 know, the golf course next door, move the tee back or whatever. 259 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:02,720 But there's there's another thing that people aren't understanding and and it has to do 260 00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:07,799 with in the old game, we were shaping the ball off the tee to 261 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:11,240 fit the ball into these farawores, like curving the ball. So if you 262 00:19:11,319 --> 00:19:15,359 move the ball, if you move the tees back fifty yards, I can't 263 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,400 shape the ball around the corner. I have to hit a straight shot out 264 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,160 to the corner. But if the teas were up, I could kind of 265 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,079 sneak it around the corner, like I could turn and curve the ball and 266 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,880 draw it around the corner. I noticed this when Brad Hughes and I, 267 00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,359 you know, played Olympic Club together a few years ago and we said, 268 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,119 well, look, we were playing for Cimon and Blades out there, and 269 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,200 we said, let's just play it at sixty eight hundred. So we just 270 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,519 played the course from where it used to be, and we were noticing, 271 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,640 you know, how beautiful it was set up to where you could sneak the 272 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,400 ball around these corners, you know, drawing and fading it off, the 273 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,519 team working, and everything was about working and shaping the ball at the Olympic 274 00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:52,400 Club. But then we'd look back and we'd see some tea box like one 275 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,279 hundred yards back there. So what were you playing from the white teas? 276 00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:02,079 Yeah, so we would go back there and it's like, Okay, with 277 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,920 a modern driver, you can't curve it around this corner. I mean you're 278 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,720 gonna have to hit a straight shot out to that corner, but up over 279 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,519 the top. But you can't get it around the corner by shaping the ball. 280 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,920 So and to me, that makes the game less interesting because I like 281 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,640 shaping the ball. That's what it is exciting about golf is to learn. 282 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,440 First you learn how to hit the ball straight, and then you learn how 283 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,759 to curve the ball and shape the ball not only off the tee but into 284 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:33,079 the greens. And then dealing with the different trajectories of the shots, like 285 00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:40,559 if we take the if we take the Masters, for example, everybody knows 286 00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:45,880 the famous back nine. Okay, so ten and eleven used to be long 287 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,839 irons into those holes. You're coming in with a low trajectory shot. That's 288 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,000 why there's no bunkers in front of the green it was meant to be. 289 00:20:53,079 --> 00:20:56,440 You could skip the ball onto the green. You could land it short or 290 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,799 on the front of the green. And the greens are fair narrow, but 291 00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:04,880 they're deep, okay, they're and they're designed that way to accept a low 292 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,640 trajectory shot into the green. Now, if you take fifteen, thirteen and 293 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,160 fifteen the par fives, those greens are wide, but they're very shallow and 294 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,599 they're protected in the front with water, right, so the same you're coming 295 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,279 in with again with a low trajectory shot because they're both reachable in two. 296 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,880 But it's much more exciting as a par five when a guy's hitting a two 297 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,680 iron in and the things coming in there, you know, blazing in there 298 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,119 with a low trajectory. Can't he stop it on the green? You know, 299 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,839 coming in low and if it doesn't, it can skip over the green. 300 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,799 And on the fifteen, I think there's water over the greening and up 301 00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:47,160 over there. So those would be par fives because they were they offered a 302 00:21:47,279 --> 00:21:51,000 risk and reward. You're coming in with a low trajectory, very scary shot 303 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,359 to be hitting a two iron into a green with water in the front. 304 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,400 That and the green is very shallow and the ball's coming in low. I 305 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,240 mean when I I would watch that tournament as a kid, I felt kind 306 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,000 of nervous, you know. I remember watching Sevy and maybe in nineteen eighty 307 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:10,200 six or something, and he was coming in. He's playing with Tom Watson, 308 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,279 and they're coming in with these two iron one iron, you know, 309 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,279 coming into these greens. And now when they're hitting, you know, I 310 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,519 remember seeing Phil Nicholson, the kid eight irony in you know, so the 311 00:22:23,559 --> 00:22:29,400 ball's coming in high and it just lands on the green and stops on ten 312 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,839 and eleven. They come in with short irons now, so they're just coming 313 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,799 in with short irons, and I actually saw guys back in the ball up 314 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,240 on the green like it would hit on number ten. They could spin the 315 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:44,440 ball back. That never ever happened in the past. They were always coming 316 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,480 in with the longer irons, unless on ten they could really cut that again, 317 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,200 curving the ball around that corner with a persimmon driver and a blot of 318 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,599 ball, get it to come down the left side down that hill, and 319 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,440 they can maybe come in with like a five or six iron. You know, 320 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,160 then you had a big advantage. So all that strategy and the shaping 321 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,559 and the trajectory and the curving that it's not. It's not that it doesn't 322 00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:11,079 exist now, it's just not as much like not it was much more about 323 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,559 curving and shaping the ball. So that part of the game has changed dramatically, 324 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:19,480 made it really a different game. Yeah. Well it also is the 325 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,799 design, the art, what the architect did. But we're gonna talk about 326 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,960 that more. But I want to take another quick time out. We'll right 327 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:36,640 back, right, So, when you were talking about these par fives that 328 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,759 that are, you know, the second shot is going to be a two 329 00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:41,519 iron, a three iron. It's gonna be low and coming into a green 330 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:45,400 that's not deep, so you've got to land it soft. It's really the 331 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:49,920 architect saying this is going to be a three club. You know, par 332 00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:55,200 five. You're not going to be able to get there in two because you're 333 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,880 gonna miss, right. Is that is that the architect involved in this? 334 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,720 Yeah, that's the that's really the whole thing of the golf course. Right. 335 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:08,519 You have this common sense again that if it's one shot to the green 336 00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:11,960 in two pots, that's a par three. Two shots, it's a par 337 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:15,160 four three shots, it's a par five, right, the par fives would 338 00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:21,799 A good par five usually would maybe tempt you to go for the green in 339 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:26,960 two, so there might be water fully protected in the front. Right. 340 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,039 A bad design would be a par four where you would have to come in 341 00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:36,160 with a long iron, but it were fully protected in the front by bunkers 342 00:24:36,279 --> 00:24:38,319 or water in the green with shallow and we used to call that kind of 343 00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:41,319 like a Mickey mousehole. You know, it's just like this bad design. 344 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:48,559 You know, it's not fair because a good golf course should be playable under 345 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,359 most any conditions. You know, whether it's in the afternoon, in the 346 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,559 summer and it gets dried out, if the greens get firm and you can't 347 00:24:56,599 --> 00:25:00,480 hold the ball on the green, if you're coming in with a long eye 348 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,240 and you simply can't hold the ball on the green because it's coming in with 349 00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:07,759 a low trajectory, and then you've got some kind of death bunker over the 350 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:11,200 backside of the green or something. I mean, it's just an unplayable hole. 351 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,559 It's not fair, right, So the great golf courses were were designed 352 00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:21,160 to be able to be played under wet and Soggi conditions and firm and heart 353 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,640 A perfect example would be Cypress Point. I mean, I know not many 354 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,160 people have played there, but I've had the fortune to have played Cypressmen many 355 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,720 times because my sponsors or members out there, so I got to play out 356 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,720 there. In fact, I played there recently, and it's just a fantastic 357 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,480 golf course because Cypress Point can play very difficult when it's soggy and wet, 358 00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:47,400 and also when it's when it's hard and firm, but it's always there. 359 00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:49,000 If you hit a good shot, you get rewarded. You hit a bad 360 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:55,759 shot, you get punished, and that's best golf should be. I'll give 361 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:59,480 you an example when I when I went on the Canadian Tour in nineteen ninety 362 00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:04,039 one shot seventeen under there. I was never on a par five into the 363 00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:08,599 whole week, not because I was a short hitter. I was a little 364 00:26:08,599 --> 00:26:15,240 longer than average. I was probably in the seventieth percentile of distance you know, 365 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,440 of the tour players, probably seventy seventy five percentile, never on a 366 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,440 par five and two the whole week. But shooting seventeen under, every one 367 00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,960 of those birdies that I made was a one putt green. I mean I 368 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,359 had to earn it. I had to earn those birdies. When I see 369 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,319 the pros hitting mid iron into a par five and two putting for birdie, 370 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,240 it's not a birdie I mean in my mind, because they're hitting the ball 371 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,480 on the green and two shots with a mid iron. That's a part four. 372 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:52,000 It's a part four. So the tour is basically playing par sixty eights 373 00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:56,440 every week relative to when I was playing. Because if you're hitting the ball 374 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,920 on the green in two with the mid iron, that's a part four. 375 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,960 I'm sorry, it's a par four. It's a par sixty eight. So 376 00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:06,680 when I see sixty five, to me, that's sixty nine when I was 377 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,640 playing. You know, you see all these low scores. Oh you know, 378 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,440 someone shots sixty four, it's like, well, they're playing a par 379 00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:17,880 sixty eight. That's like a part that's a I mean, they're playing par 380 00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:22,559 sixty eight, so they're four under par. That's like me shooting a sixty 381 00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:26,240 eight on a par seventy two when I was playing. So when you were 382 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:33,279 playing versus today, when you're talking about these guys hitting the ball three hundred 383 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:38,359 and fifty yards off the tee, are the players a lot younger today than 384 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,000 they were then? You can see a lot of guys coming up in their 385 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,920 twenties, and just last week an amateur one on the tour for the first 386 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,960 time forever. I was really happy to see that. Yeah, that was 387 00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:51,440 awesome, and then that he said, yeah, I'm not going to play 388 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,079 next week. I want to go back home, right, And it's very 389 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,039 exciting to have an amateur win. But you're seeing more more and more players 390 00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:07,160 in their early twenties, which when you were playing, did that exist? 391 00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,200 Were there a lot of young players like that coming out of college? And 392 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,880 well, yeah, there's there were always hot shots coming out of college that 393 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,240 would come out and do well right away. I mean Phil Nicholson did really 394 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,880 well right out of college. Tiger right right, Okay, So you know 395 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,599 it's like saying when you talk about basketball, it's like, oh, Michael 396 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,720 Jordan did well. Yeah, so he's the unicorn, you know, like 397 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,160 he's the anomaly. It's not the rule. But what I liked about the 398 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,680 old game better and I think it's it's it should be, you know, 399 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:44,039 true, is that you could develop experience. Right, So when you were 400 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:45,559 in your forties, you know, it's like, hey, you know, 401 00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:51,519 you've been playing these tournaments for twenty years. Right, So if you're playing 402 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,039 four rounds and a practice round in a pro am, you're playing that course 403 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,640 six times a year right over the course of twenty years. So you're playing 404 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,359 someone's got one hundred and twenty rounds on this course. And the guy's you 405 00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:08,920 know, forty years old, he's and he's play he's played this course one 406 00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:12,240 hundred and twenty times, and I'm showing up there for the first time. 407 00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:17,119 There's an equalizer there, right. Maybe the guy doesn't hit it quite as 408 00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:19,440 far as as he used to, but he's got all the local knowledge. 409 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,279 He knows where to hit and how to play the course. And that enabled 410 00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:29,559 the older players to still be you know, competitive against the young guys because 411 00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:32,599 they could have experience on their side, you know, of knowing the golf 412 00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:37,359 course. And the other thing too, because the golf ball going a percentage 413 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:44,519 farther it actually it actually hurts the short hitters even more because the longer guys 414 00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:48,160 are picking they're hitting it even farther percentage wise. Right. So a guy 415 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,000 who hit let's just say you hit a ball two hundred yards and you add 416 00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:56,240 you know, fifteen percent to that, so you're picking up thirty yards, 417 00:29:56,319 --> 00:30:02,359 right, but if you hit it three h yards, you're picking up forty 418 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,039 five yards. So the gap is just bigger and bigger and bigger. The 419 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,559 longer the ball goes and all this, the gap it just gets bigger and 420 00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:15,200 bigger and bigger. But back when I was playing, you know, the 421 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:21,480 short hitters hit it to thirty. The longest hitters hit it to seventy. 422 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,160 You know, but your average guy was too fifty. So if you were 423 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,440 a short hitter, you were only twenty yards behind the average tour player. 424 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,480 So if you hit every faraway, you're a guy like Corey Paven was a 425 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,079 guy that just the guy just never missed a faraway. I mean I played 426 00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:42,640 with Corey many times. I don't ever remember him just you know, mapping 427 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,640 one into another faraway or something. I mean, if he was in, 428 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,119 if he missed a ferry, it was just he was off by a yard 429 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,440 ors you know, it was just trickled into the rough or something. But 430 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:56,039 I can't ever remember him ever even missing a Faraohy but he only hit the 431 00:30:56,079 --> 00:31:00,559 ball about two hundred and twenty five thirty yards with a driver. But when 432 00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,720 I was a freshman in college, he was a senior. I was playing 433 00:31:03,759 --> 00:31:07,000 number one man at Fresleent State as a freshman, and he was number one 434 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,519 man at UCLA, So we got paired together a lot. Every time we 435 00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:15,200 got paired with UCLA, I was playing with Corey Paven and you know, 436 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,240 it was it was incredible to see how good he would play. He would 437 00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:22,880 shoot. I remember him shooting sixty six at Stanford Course, hitting the ball 438 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,759 two hundred and twenty five yards off the t shot sixty six out there, 439 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:30,519 and that was a long, hard course, you know, back then. 440 00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:34,400 And he won seven college tournaments that year. He was Collegiate Player of the 441 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,359 Year. And he was a guy hitting it two hundred and twenty five to 442 00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:41,079 two hundred and thirty yards off the tee and there were guys that were hitting 443 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:45,920 it to seventy. You know, Duffy Waldorf at UCLA was really long at 444 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,960 the time. Davis Love, you know, I played against in the sun 445 00:31:49,039 --> 00:31:53,880 Ball and you know, incredibly long hitter. But Corey Paven would beat all 446 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,599 these guys. So there's something you know, beautiful about that. Actually. 447 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,400 You know, on the PGA Tour, you had Tom Kite winning a US 448 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,799 Open, your Cheechi Rodriguez. You had guys that didn't the real game. 449 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,920 Even Lee Trevina wasn't a real long hitter, you know, relative to some 450 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,960 of these other guys. So if you hit it short and straight, you 451 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,319 could compete against someone that was long and wild with a high spinning ball. 452 00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:22,319 The longer hitters had trouble keeping the ball in play because the ball spun so 453 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,480 much more so if they missed it a little bit, they were off in 454 00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:29,680 the trees. I mean, you hit a ball out of bounds, or 455 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,960 you make a double bogie once or twice around because you're hitting it long, 456 00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:36,519 you don't need you're not gonna want to hit it that long. You know 457 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:38,160 you're going to try and rein it back and get it in the ferryway. 458 00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:43,319 And so it kind of kept the whole kept all the horses kind of a 459 00:32:43,319 --> 00:32:45,160 lot closer at the finish. You know, everything was a lot kind of 460 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:52,680 closer in there because the long hitters weren't all that great necessarily, and the 461 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:55,799 short hitters that were in the ferry all the time kind of had an advantage. 462 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,400 So I think that was a thing that made golf more of an equal 463 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,599 opportunity for people. And I think that's a good thing. If you if 464 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,359 you're at if you were small and petite and you know, you only weigh 465 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:10,160 one hundred and thirty five pounds or something. But if you could just laser 466 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,279 that thing down there, you could make a career out of golf. And 467 00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:16,920 I think that's a good thing, you know. And now it's everyone kind 468 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,680 of looks like, you know, they're like a super athletes out they're lying 469 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,559 by everyone's you know, you know, fit and just all that sort of 470 00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:28,000 thing. You don't see the you know, back in the seventies you had 471 00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:32,000 guys with big beer bellies out there, and you know, Bob Murphy and 472 00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:37,720 Craig Stadler and Roger Malty. They look like they'd be cutting the grass next 473 00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:39,880 door in your in your neighborhood. You know, you could, you know, 474 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,400 you could sit there and relate to these guys. You know, it's 475 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,960 like the look, it looks like he looks like my neighbor at he's out 476 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:53,559 there. I think because I guess ultimately golf was a game, right, 477 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:58,960 a game, and it's now become more of a sport. I mean, 478 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,359 you wouldn't find the difference, well, there is a difference. You wouldn't 479 00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:07,159 consider chess to be a sport right, it's a game. It's a game. 480 00:34:07,199 --> 00:34:12,440 Monopoly is a game? It does. Does the sports require a ball? 481 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:22,280 I think? I mean, would you consider croquet a sport? Probably 482 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,440 to those who are serious about it? How about how about pool shooting? 483 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,039 Pool, billiards? Any kind of billiards game? Is that a sport? 484 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,079 It might be on the sports channel, but it's not. It doesn't take 485 00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:36,960 any physical characteristic. You don't have to be big and strong or whatever. 486 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,320 You just be able to need to be tall enough to get up and over 487 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:45,920 to you. You know, it takes an eye, it's but it's coordination, 488 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,719 it's you know, I mean an eye and steadiness. I mean there 489 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,000 are elements to it. Is is archery a sport or is it a game? 490 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,599 Right? You could debate this for yeah, you could. You could 491 00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:01,519 debate these things. But my point really is that golf was I think more 492 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:08,039 on the game side where it didn't require any specific physical characteristics. Like if 493 00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:13,000 you're a horse jockey, I mean you can't weigh three hundred pounds right, 494 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,519 right, I mean it takes us if you're a basketball player and he pretty 495 00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:21,960 much gotta be six or four minimum, right, or you know, unless 496 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,119 you're stuff or something but I mean Steph Curry six. I mean, it's 497 00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:28,719 not like, yeah, he's a short guy, right, he looks teeny 498 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,920 out there at So the beauty of golf is that, you know, you 499 00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:37,599 had a guy like Cheechi Rodriguez it was probably what five six weighed one hundred 500 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,320 and twenty five pounds or something out there, you know, and then you 501 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,119 would have a guy like, you know, George bar there was six six 502 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:46,480 and weigh you know, two hundred and eighty pounds or something. You know, 503 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,239 you could have these guys competing against each other, and chee Chi Rodriguez 504 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,000 want a lot more tournaments than George Barre. Ever, did you know people 505 00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:59,440 go watch George Barre because he hit the ball. You could hit a persimmon 506 00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:01,480 driver and a lot of ball three hundred yards and people were just that was 507 00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:04,639 just amazing, you know. But it was fun to watch. But he 508 00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:07,599 didn't you know, he wasn't in the winter circle very often, right, 509 00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:10,320 But I think that was a good thing for golf. You could pretty much 510 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,199 you could be tall and thin like George Archer. You could be short and 511 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:20,320 fat like Roger Malty. You know, you could be any any You could 512 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,599 be anything, really, and be out there and now it's not as much 513 00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:28,480 that way. Everybody looks pretty fit and they really turned it into a sport, 514 00:36:28,599 --> 00:36:31,840 which I'm not saying that that competition is right. I mean, it's 515 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,480 all about the competition. You got to you know, play up to the 516 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,119 competition and if they're going to be in top physical shape for the stamina, 517 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,800 for the you know, the mental game and everything else that goes with that, 518 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,800 yeah, you have you have to compete that way. Let's take another 519 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:57,920 time out. We'll bred back the guys that you played with in college, 520 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:04,519 that stuck around the tour and that you played with early in your career as 521 00:37:04,559 --> 00:37:09,480 well. They transitioned into new gear, right, they had to make that 522 00:37:09,519 --> 00:37:14,480 transition. Yeah, some did and some didn't as well. I mean I 523 00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:21,719 know some of the guys didn't transition very well. Really yeah yeah, like 524 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:27,360 like what they just flesh that out for me because I don't know where to 525 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,119 go with that, but yeah, well I think you know some players, 526 00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:36,360 well I'll take for instance, Bradley Hughes. I don't know, say, 527 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,880 if you had Bradley on your show, no, okay, should I yeah 528 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:45,239 you should. So Bradley won the Australian Masters twice played on the President's Cup. 529 00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:51,960 He he's a good friend of mine and he was telling me that I 530 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:57,519 think it was nineteen ninety seven, ninety six, ninety seven. There was 531 00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:01,880 a stat called total driving, which was a combination of distance and accuracy. 532 00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:07,079 And he led the PGA too, was number one for two years on the 533 00:38:07,199 --> 00:38:12,960 on the PGA tour. And then they changed the clubs came out with a 534 00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:19,599 they changed the ball took a big jump, and the frying pan, big 535 00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:22,039 headed drivers got bigger and all this stuff, and he just stuck with the 536 00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:28,679 same you know, equipment, and all of a sudden, all these guys 537 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:34,639 just passed them up, you know, just all this just so it wasn't 538 00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:37,480 really a matter of skill. It was just the equipment changed, right. 539 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,639 I mean, if you look at Tiger, I mean, he was by 540 00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:44,360 far the longest hitter when he first came out. I mean, it was 541 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,800 he just had a huge advantage. But that was that was the topic of 542 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,159 conversation. Wow, look at how far he's hitting the ball. And then 543 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,599 everybody else kind of figured things out and pretty soon he's just another guy out 544 00:38:57,639 --> 00:39:00,480 there, right, I mean, he became just a not average, a 545 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,199 little longer than average, but there were plenty of guys that are hitting it 546 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,559 as far as he was, if not farther, you know, so he 547 00:39:06,639 --> 00:39:12,679 kind of lost his advantage. I mean, the technology, if you homogenize 548 00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:16,880 something, it's it's it brings everything kind of closer together. Right, So 549 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:25,800 if you give the high tech equipment to people that allows certain players based upon 550 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,679 their swings and their swing speeds, there's a trampoline effect that comes in off 551 00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:35,360 the face that shoots the ball out farther, this kind of thing. But 552 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,960 the longer hitters tend to get a little more trampoline effect coming off off the 553 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,920 club face than somebody the shorter. So the shorter hitters actually get punished with 554 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,159 some of this stuff. Right. So my point being that if you had 555 00:39:49,199 --> 00:39:52,440 a guy that was a shorter hitter, even giving him the tech, the 556 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:58,840 new technology, it's not necessarily helping him as much because he's he's he's picking 557 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,719 up distance, but not as much much as the longer hitters are. Right 558 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:06,840 when you're talking about equipment some people transitioning, I think some of the shorter 559 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,960 hitters didn't transition well because equipment wasn't it was helping them relative to what they 560 00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:15,239 used to be, but not relative to their competition, because it's competition now 561 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,440 they're hitting it even farther, right, So it's just like if everybody's hitting 562 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,159 the ball ten percent farther, well, the shorter hitter is he's not getting 563 00:40:23,159 --> 00:40:27,519 as much yardage off his ten percent as a guy who's hitting it much farther. 564 00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:31,639 He's getting his ten percents bigger. Ten percent of three hundred is a 565 00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:36,000 bigger number than ten percent of two fifty, right, ten percent of two 566 00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:38,480 fifty twenty five yards three hundred yard guys now hitting at three three thirty, 567 00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:46,760 So he's actually picking up another five yards from the guy. So it getting 568 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,000 back to what you were saying that your average golfer like with a new ball, 569 00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:52,800 you when we talk about that, you know this this rolling back the 570 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:59,719 ball, I'm totally against that, really absolutely against it. I'm I think 571 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:06,679 it's a terrible, a terrible thing to take that away. Maybe at the 572 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:12,039 pro level, fine, but for the amateurs, what are they doing. 573 00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:16,639 Nobody wants to hit the ball shorter, that's crazy, So why not have 574 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:23,079 a tour ball? You know, but if they really wanted to solve the 575 00:41:23,159 --> 00:41:27,480 problem, they're not looking at the ball. They got to look at the 576 00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:30,800 driver. That's the problem, the problem. It's not the golf ball, 577 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:37,320 it's the driver. If you have the longer the club given the same weight, 578 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,400 you're going to hit it farther. If at the club's longer. If 579 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:47,159 my driver's eleven ounces, if it's forty four inches and it's eleven ounces compared 580 00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:52,840 with forty six inches at eleven ounces, I'm going to hit the forty six 581 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,599 inch driver longer. Because it's just like like a like a record going around 582 00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:00,159 on a record player. You know, you watch the inside's going like this, 583 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:06,119 but the outside's really moving faster. Right. The RPMs are the same, 584 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,559 but the velocity of the outside edge is more than it is going around 585 00:42:10,639 --> 00:42:16,440 like this spindle. Yeah, but if you have more control with that forty 586 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,039 four inch shaft versus a forty six Yeah, But when there's no trees on 587 00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:23,280 the golf course and the fairways are you know, eighty yards wide, like 588 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:28,920 this last US Open at La Country Club, It's like, what was that? 589 00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:31,800 I mean, you know, I played La Country Club when I was 590 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:37,199 a kid many times, and that was a fairly narrow course. But they 591 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,760 went in there and they cut down like thousands of trees out there, and 592 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,199 they turned it into like a Lynx kind of looking car. It's like, 593 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,920 what are they doing? You know that? That's I didn't even recognize the 594 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,280 golf course, Like what is this? And guys are hitting it all over 595 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,639 the place out there. You know. US Open used to be narrow and 596 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,760 thick grass and if you were just a little bit off, you were hitting 597 00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:01,559 at it. You know, you grass anymore, you know they So it's 598 00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:07,239 the USGA, it's an organization, it's their tournament. They can do what 599 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,840 they want. I'm not for me as a spectator playing the old game. 600 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,960 And I played in three US Amateurs, so you know, I didn't play 601 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,320 in the US Open, but I played in three US Amateurs, made the 602 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,960 quarterfinals and eighty three, so I took it pretty far into that got to 603 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:29,000 play in some of that grass. It was like this, and it was 604 00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:31,920 really narrow and you had to hit it straight. And if you were in 605 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:37,280 that grass, you weren't thinking about getting it on the green. You were 606 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,159 just thinking about wedging it out and getting it back into the faraway. And 607 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,239 I have to decide do I want to kind of wedge it out down the 608 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,400 right side of the ferry so I can hit my little pit shot in to 609 00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:50,480 that back left pin place when I wasn't making birdies from the rough. But 610 00:43:50,519 --> 00:43:55,119 I remember seeing Rory McElroy when he won was it a Congressional maybe ten years 611 00:43:55,159 --> 00:43:59,519 ago or whenever that was, And I remember him like hitting it in the 612 00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:05,000 raw on Sunday and making two or three birdies the final round out of the 613 00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:09,079 rough in the US Open. And because the rough wasn't that deep, and 614 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,079 I even took some pictures on it and put it on the advanced ball striking 615 00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:15,039 side, it just showed like the rough was like this. And then I 616 00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:17,480 had a picture at Tom Watson at seventeen and he chipped in, you know 617 00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:24,039 the goose with this, you know this thick stuff. They change it for 618 00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:30,519 some reason. The PG twur the usg They don't really want to see high 619 00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:32,960 scores, you know, they don't like the US Open words. You know, 620 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,960 guys are shooting over par or anything like that, or par is a 621 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,079 good score in the US So they don't want that. They for marketing reasons 622 00:44:40,119 --> 00:44:43,519 or whatever, they just like to see the lower numbers. I think it's 623 00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:47,800 more exciting for the public or whatever. I played Congressional in the fall this 624 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:53,280 past fall. I could not believe my nephew is a member there. I 625 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:59,239 could not believe the rough. I was like, wow, this is punishing. 626 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,519 I bet it probably wasn't that punishing, and that us opens that I 627 00:45:04,559 --> 00:45:07,039 saw, you know, birdies being made out of the roughs. I mean, 628 00:45:07,079 --> 00:45:08,519 could you imagine making birdies out of the rough when you played there? 629 00:45:09,039 --> 00:45:13,840 No? Probably not. No, I couldn't imagine hitting birdies there. I 630 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,960 think I got one. So the ball, Yeah, I don't think the 631 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:22,000 ball should be you know, rolled back. Not for the general public. 632 00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:25,239 I think that the modern drivers are just fine. You know, for the 633 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,079 modern players. They want to hit, you know, because they're they're just 634 00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:32,639 playing on the weekend and you know, they need a big head and you 635 00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:37,119 know, long and light and you just they just want to smack it out 636 00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:39,000 there and just be able to kind of play golf. And that's fine. 637 00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:44,119 But for the but the pro tour, that's really what kind of sets the 638 00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:46,679 example. And if you're really serious about it, if the pros were still 639 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,480 playing for Simon and blades and a blot of golf ball, I bet you 640 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,800 would see more people doing that at the amateur level, just because they'd like 641 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,519 to see what that's like, I want to play the pro game, you 642 00:45:58,519 --> 00:46:00,760 know. Well, also you're going to have people, you know, they're 643 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,800 not going to be playing that equipment just when they get to the tour. 644 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,800 They have to like train on that equipment for years. Yeah. Yeah, 645 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,480 so they're going to play that to try to get there. And you're not 646 00:46:14,519 --> 00:46:17,960 going to see a ten year old kid now Like I have a nephew whose 647 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:23,760 son is nine and obsessed with golf, Well, he's going to be playing 648 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,360 the most modern equipment. He's not going to be like, well, I'm 649 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,599 going to be training for the training for the PGA Tour for you know, 650 00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:34,599 when I when I'm an adult, and so I need to play with lesser 651 00:46:34,639 --> 00:46:37,519 equipment against my competition because he is competing already. Yeah, it doesn't It 652 00:46:37,519 --> 00:46:40,920 doesn't make any sense at all. What needs, what I think needs to 653 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,800 happen is there should be a professional tour that is a persimon and blade tour. 654 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,360 You know, that's just it wouldn't be the money that the PGA Tour 655 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,960 or Live or something like that, but you might be able to go out 656 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,079 in the summer and play half you know, play half a dozen or ten 657 00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:01,559 tournaments or something, and you know, maybe make a couple hundred thousand dollars 658 00:47:01,679 --> 00:47:05,599 or something, and that'd be okay for a lot of people. That'd be 659 00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:07,039 good. Hey, I'm playing golf and I pick up one hundred thousand bucks 660 00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:12,199 or so, not so bad. You know. Well the problem with that 661 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,320 is is, you know, we've had conversation with Barney Adams and he says, 662 00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:20,880 the PGA Tour is nothing more than a TV show and what you're proposing 663 00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:25,840 is not great television compared to what's out there now. And that means less 664 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:32,079 money, less prize money, you know, less sponsors. It's sub I 665 00:47:32,119 --> 00:47:37,719 don't know. Would would it be less entertaining? I mean it might. 666 00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:43,800 It could be very entertaining. I think because people love to life forever, 667 00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:47,880 they could relate to it more. You know, like, wow, these 668 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,159 guys are only hitting the ball two hundred and fifty yards. I can do 669 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,320 that or I'm close to doing that. You know, like that it could 670 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,320 be of interest to people, I think. I mean, golf was You 671 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,039 have to remember golf was very popular in that area. You had Arnold Palmer 672 00:48:04,199 --> 00:48:07,920 and you know, I mean you can look back at pictures of US Opens 673 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,360 and Masters and a lot of people were attending those events back then. It 674 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,000 was right, But was it golf was popular or Palmer was popular? You 675 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,679 know, it was it golf was popular, a tiger was popular. There's 676 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,599 always going to be a charismatic figure, right, So if you had a 677 00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:28,320 pursuit, there's going to be some guy out there that's going to be really 678 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,440 charismatic and people are you know, it might just be the way he dresses, 679 00:48:30,559 --> 00:48:35,079 the way he throws tempered tantrums out there, or whatever. People are 680 00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:38,800 gonna you know, there's always going to be personality, you know, and 681 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:45,639 I think you're going to have that. But golf was not an unpopular game. 682 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,440 It's it's much more popular now than it was. I mean the first 683 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,400 ticker tape parades were Bobby Jones. Yeah, Bobby Jones was the most popular 684 00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,559 athlete in the nineteen twenties and he was an amateur. I think it would 685 00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:05,480 be interesting to buy for Kate the game and to just it would just solve 686 00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:07,320 all the problems that people are talking about it. It's like if you it 687 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,559 would create new ones. If you want to play the roll back ball, 688 00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:15,119 you go play the Percimin Tour, you know, play the classic courses, 689 00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:17,039 all those great courses that people talk about, all of a sudden, they're 690 00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:22,199 relevant again. They're played properly. The bunkering is correct. You hit the 691 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:23,440 ball, You got to hit it between these bunkers. You can't fly at 692 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:30,079 fifty yards over the bunkers. And we did a couple events down in Las 693 00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:35,159 Vegas TRGA events. I think we did three or four of them down there 694 00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:37,039 at the old Sahara Country Club, and we played per Simmon and Blades, 695 00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:43,079 and we played a low spinning, not a low spinning, a low compression 696 00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:45,880 golf ball that didn't go as far. And now everybody's sitting the ball too 697 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:51,159 fifty again, and now the bunkers were in back in position again. You 698 00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:53,360 had to hit it, you know, work the ball between the bunkers and 699 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,800 the greens. Played correctly, and everybody had a great time. And it 700 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,480 was a pro tournament. There was prize money, and we just you know, 701 00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:02,559 there was no USJ official out there because we just had our We did 702 00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:07,960 our own tournament. We just had our own rules and we just rule. 703 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:15,480 We made the rules simple to where the entire rules of golf in the TRJ 704 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:20,639 it was one page. So in other words, you play it as it 705 00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,079 lies period. Okay. If you don't like your lie, you're on a 706 00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:30,159 sprinkler, head, a cart path, whatever, you could take full relief. 707 00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:32,519 So that meant you would go back to the middle of the fairway. 708 00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:37,280 You would take a one stroke penalty, and now you go back thirty yards. 709 00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:40,440 Okay, So where everyone's hitting a seven iron, now you're hitting a 710 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,719 four iron and a shot penalty. Simple, don't like your lie, casual 711 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,119 water, hit it out of the water. Don't like it, go middle 712 00:50:49,159 --> 00:50:52,400 of the faraway and go back your decision. Do you want to take a 713 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,360 shot penalty? Because I believe that relief should be relief in other words, 714 00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:00,559 I'll give you an example. I'm playing in the Alberta Open. This would 715 00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:07,079 have been about maybe nineteen eighty eight. I said, okay, and on 716 00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:12,320 the ninth holl I hit my drive left. I hooked it left and I 717 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,320 was in grass that was this high, okay, about twelve twelve inches. 718 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,840 This is an audio podcast. Yeah, but the steaks there were red steaks 719 00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:28,280 that were going through this grass, so it was a lateral hazard. I 720 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,239 took relief and I dropped my ball. Okay, I had to take a 721 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,639 penalty. Two club lengths. I dropped my ball and I'm still in grass. 722 00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:43,400 That's that's twelve inches tall. Ouch ouch right beat. In other words, 723 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:47,079 I didn't really get relief. Yeah, or I could go back to 724 00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:51,079 the tea, take stroke and distance. So, in other words, what 725 00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:52,840 we did and we said, if you're in that situation, you don't We 726 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:59,280 don't even need steaks on the course, so you don't need red steaks or 727 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,719 yellow steaks. I'd look at that ball and say, you know what, 728 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,079 I don't want to play this. I'm going to go back to the fairway, 729 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,920 take a shot, penalty, go back thirty yards. The reason that 730 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,679 we go back thirty yards is because when you go back thirty yards, nobody 731 00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:14,280 cares about where you drop the ball. Nobody's like, hey, you're dropping 732 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,719 it over. You're back there three clubs far. Nobody can when you're back 733 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,280 there, nobody they see you way back, they're hitting a foe iron. 734 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,800 They don't care. So we were getting we were getting around the golf course 735 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,800 in a pro am format, two pros, two amateurs, pro am format, 736 00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:34,079 and we were getting around in less than four hours, three hours and 737 00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:37,639 forty five minutes. Wow. Yes, So you want to talk pace of 738 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:43,920 play great. You know you want to talk simplifying the rules, Play it 739 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,960 as it lies. I had, I had one shot. My ball was 740 00:52:47,519 --> 00:52:53,320 I had to stand on a cart path and I decided to hit the ball. 741 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,960 I didn't take the relief. You know, I didn't want to take 742 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,400 a shot penalty and go back. Now if depending on what I'm comfortable with, 743 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,159 I could have just taken a wedge and just sort of chipped it forward 744 00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:07,719 right. But I took out a two wood. I had a good lie. 745 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,719 It was a par five, and I took a rip at it. 746 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,320 I kind of lost my balance a little bit, but I'd hit it perfect, 747 00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:17,079 rolled up on the green eight feet from the pin, and I made 748 00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:22,079 eagle. Wow. I took the lead. I took the lead at that 749 00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:28,400 point in the tournament. Wow. So my point is that that way you 750 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,760 put everything on the player, like do you want to play it or not? 751 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,960 You know, if the ball's plugged in a bunker underneath the lip, 752 00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:39,639 right, I don't want to do this. I'll take the shot penalty. 753 00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:43,920 I'll go back thirty yards, hit a wedge in take a shot penalty, 754 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:51,840 full relief. Now is this traditional? Actually it is. When we traced 755 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:59,000 back to the Golf Club of Leith in Scotland. They had a distance penalty 756 00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:04,360 written into the room rules distance penalty that if you hit the ball into the 757 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:12,360 watchery filth you would go back six yards or more interesting, it was actually 758 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,119 a distance penalty. So we thought, well, let's just go back thirty 759 00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:17,039 yards and then we'll just shut everybody up. Six yards. People say, 760 00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:22,119 well, it's not six yards, that's you only went four yards. Somebody's 761 00:54:22,159 --> 00:54:23,920 going to argue with you no matter what. Thirty yards, no arguments. 762 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,920 We got around three hours and forty five minutes. So you know, and 763 00:54:29,039 --> 00:54:32,639 it's a beautiful way to play the game. Uh, it's it's quick and 764 00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:36,400 it just puts the decisions on the people what they want to do. And 765 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:40,679 you don't need a rules official out there. There's no rules officials, you 766 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:45,800 know. So and it was a professional tournament. We had real prize money 767 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:50,880 and you know, everyone was just playing the classes gear and everyone had a 768 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,159 great time. So this is what I this is why I love having you 769 00:54:55,239 --> 00:55:00,280 on the show. I prepared myself. I wrote seven different topics that we 770 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:05,639 that we could cover in an episode. I checked off one of them. 771 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,079 Yeah, let's talk about what do you want to talk about live or you 772 00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:15,840 want to talk about No, it's time to go. So do you still 773 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:22,559 have a website? Do you even't care? What's your website? Our website 774 00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:29,039 is Advanced ball Striking dot com. Excellent. And next time you're on, 775 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,960 I want to get more of your history of you know, you playing professionally 776 00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:38,920 after college and that, and I'm sure we'll never get to it because I'll 777 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,840 throw out one topic and that'll be the next hour. I played. I 778 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,480 played seven years, I played four years on the Australian Tour, seven years 779 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,719 in Canada, played a little bit in the US, and I won once 780 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,280 on the Canadian Tour. A decent, you know, career, but that 781 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,280 was that's about it. I was a good journeyman guy, basically a good 782 00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:01,000 good guy, making huts and that sort of thing. But I realized I 783 00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:04,960 wasn't going to be you know, Greg Norman after playing against him at that 784 00:56:05,039 --> 00:56:09,039 time, I was like, no, different ballgame. Yeah, wow, 785 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,679 that sounds up my pro career. But I found I can teach a game 786 00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:17,119 pretty well. Awesome. John lag Ericson, John, Great to talk to 787 00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:20,719 you again, man, Talk to you soon. Happy New Year. Okay, 788 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:27,840 we'll see you so I'm currently in Costa Rica for a couple of weeks 789 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,239 with a group of close friends to celebrate my wife's seventieth birthday. But that 790 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,840 doesn't mean we have to skip any episodes, right. I was able to 791 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,800 survive my back and arm pain and have new shows, so why should this 792 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:45,199 keep me quiet? Still haven't started swinging my golf clubs yet, but hopefully 793 00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:51,880 we'll start that once I return. Did you see my unboxing and first impressions 794 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,400 of my new lab Golf DF three point zero putter? Hmmm? Check it 795 00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:01,719 out on any social media platform including YouTube shorts Golf Smarter. I've already got 796 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:07,000 interviews for the next couple of episodes lined up, and next week we'll meet 797 00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:12,159 an instructor friend of doctor Greta Anderson, and his name's John Marshall, who, 798 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,360 in addition to being a golf instructor, has competed in the Senior's Long 799 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:21,000 Drive competitions. Can't wait to talk to him about that, and then after 800 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:25,639 that we'll talk to course architect Augie Pisa again about his unique and fascinating thoughts 801 00:57:25,679 --> 00:57:30,880 on golf course design. This week's golf Smarter Ambassador is Christopher Payne of Castle 802 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,760 Creek, New York, and he plays at Fort Hill Country Club. Let's 803 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,840 hear from you because I want you to take advantage of getting a free gift 804 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:44,679 for something you may not think about buying for yourself. By being a Golf 805 00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:49,239 Smarter Ambassador, you'll be given a choice of three great gifts to choose from, 806 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,280 and like Christopher, you can choose Tony Manzoni's video of the Lost Fundamental, 807 00:57:52,679 --> 00:57:57,400 or you may want to get a glove and glove storage compartment from redroostergolf 808 00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,760 dot com. And our third and newest this option is an a pack of 809 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:07,599 flightpathgolf ties from flightpathgolf dot com. All you have to do is introduce an 810 00:58:07,679 --> 00:58:12,119 upcoming episode by telling us where you're from and where you play. Just write 811 00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:15,639 directly to me and I'll send you simple instructions on how to record. Check 812 00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:20,639 out today's show notes to find links about each gift you have to choose from. 813 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,840 If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for upcoming episodes, 814 00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:29,719 or you want to join our list of Golf Smarter Ambassadors who've received a free 815 00:58:29,719 --> 00:58:34,440 gift, write to Golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com or click on the 816 00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:37,840 Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com,