1 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,960 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily de Shenski, 2 00:00:22,039 --> 00:00:24,839 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the 3 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:28,760 show at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr 4 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,920 LST. Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts as well. Happy 5 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,960 Friday. I'm joined today by the one and only Mark Hemingway's senior investigative writer 6 00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:44,359 over at Real Clear Investigations, also books editor here at The Federalist. Mark, 7 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,240 thanks for joining us. Glad to be here. Now. You have 8 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,560 a story that's gotten some attention, It's made some waves, and rightfully so 9 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,280 because despite you know, some coverage. I think there's been a little coverage 10 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:02,880 from like Ken Vogel, Philip Wegman at Real Politics, Hans your I'm not 11 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:08,599 gonna say this right, Hans your Weiss Swiss billionaire huge footprint in American politics. 12 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:15,760 You dug in investigated what that footprint sort of actually looks like. Can 13 00:01:15,799 --> 00:01:19,120 you tell us, ay how to pronounce this ostensible movie villain's name and be 14 00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:26,000 what the hell is going on? I believe it's pronounced Hans your vs. 15 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,120 Yeah, it's w Y S S. Believe it or not. I had 16 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:34,239 five years of German in school growing up, but that was a long time 17 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:40,120 ago. I think my pronunciations correct. I'll accept it. Sounds great to 18 00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:45,840 me. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, Weiss has pumped something like four hundred 19 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,359 and seventy five million dollars into left wing advocacy groups. You know, he 20 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:57,640 spent seventy two million dollars in twenty twenty one alone, and uh, and 21 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,760 this is pretty concerning consider during that device is a not an American citizen, 22 00:02:04,519 --> 00:02:08,800 and the way that he's using this money is you know, also sort of 23 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:13,680 raising alarms, which is that he's been put at pouring into all these you 24 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:19,479 know five O one see four dark money groups, specifically Arabel Advisors, which 25 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,240 is a big you know, sort of like left wing umbrella network for a 26 00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:25,080 lot of these organizations. And you know what happens, of course, is 27 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,800 that you know, Arabel Advisors has like, you know, a bunch of 28 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,840 smaller groups underneath it, and those groups in turn have a bunch of smaller 29 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:38,360 groups underneath those, and so it ends up being this like giant like you 30 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,919 know passed through game where you know, he maybe he gives the money to 31 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:45,199 a five O one S four entity in a way that he's allowed to do 32 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,319 under the law. But at the time that money gets shuffled from two or 33 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,000 three groups all you know, down the line, all of a sudden, 34 00:02:53,039 --> 00:02:57,800 it's being used. His foreign money is being used to directly influence elections, 35 00:02:58,159 --> 00:03:00,639 and there's been obviously a great deal concerned about that. Yeah, I want 36 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,960 to kind of dive into the legality of this, because you have a as 37 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,680 you point out, and as you report here, a foreign billionaire influencing American 38 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,960 elections to the tune of millions of dollars, basically nobody in the media paying 39 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:21,479 attention to it. And the question of whether or not this is ultimately legal 40 00:03:21,759 --> 00:03:27,680 based on our campaign finance regulations looms large over all of this. So as 41 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,280 you were just describing there, it seems as though he's been careful and intentional. 42 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,639 Is that a fair interpretation? It seems like he's trying to avoid any 43 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:42,159 problems even if so. Are there not problems legal problems that could dog him 44 00:03:42,199 --> 00:03:45,840 that linger? Yeah, this is a good question, and you know, 45 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,039 obviously a lot of people are trying to sort that out. So according to 46 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:53,360 Vice's people, I mean, they straight up told me that they when they 47 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,960 give grants to these organizations, they get these pledges in return that they're not 48 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,719 going to use that money to do anything you spressly political, you know, 49 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:05,919 which is you know nice, and it shows that they're concerned about this. 50 00:04:06,159 --> 00:04:11,719 But I mean none of this is necessarily like binding in any way. You 51 00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:14,280 know, the money is extremely fungible. I mean, once you give it 52 00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:17,079 to one entity that has several other sub entities, and you know, by 53 00:04:17,639 --> 00:04:21,000 end you'd all of a sudden you're passing from one organization to another organization that 54 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:27,240 has a different class sorry at different tax status. Maybe you know, all 55 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:30,040 kinds of crazy things can happen with the money. So there's really no way 56 00:04:30,079 --> 00:04:33,079 to tell because you have to depend on not just vice being honest about what's 57 00:04:33,079 --> 00:04:38,079 happening, but you know what the groups he's giving the money to being honest 58 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,000 about it. And you know, if you know anything about Arabella Advisors and 59 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,639 a lot of these left wing dark money groups and the things that they've been 60 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,680 doing in terms of the stuff they've been involved in in terms of directly influencing 61 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,680 elections, you know, like they do a lot of stuff you know where 62 00:04:50,079 --> 00:04:55,759 even if it's at an explicitly partisan thing, like they fund voter registration measures 63 00:04:56,079 --> 00:05:00,519 but only in like democratic neighborhoods and swing states. They know very well that 64 00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:04,319 this is you know, basically get out the vote operation for Democrats. So 65 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,439 you're depending on you know, complete honor system in terms of how that money 66 00:05:09,439 --> 00:05:14,279 gets shuttled around. And then there's this other problem, which is that on 67 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:21,399 the one of the few accountability mechanisms for this stuff involves you know, say, 68 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:25,720 filing and complaint with the Federal Election Commission, which, by the way, 69 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,560 a you know, a right leaning nonprofit watchdock group called Americans Republic Choice 70 00:05:30,639 --> 00:05:38,079 has fouled an FEC complaint against VICE and this arrangement. But the problem is 71 00:05:38,199 --> 00:05:44,639 is the Federal Election Commission is there are six commissioners on that that make collective 72 00:05:44,639 --> 00:05:48,519 decisions and by law, three year Democrats and three year Republicans, and anytime 73 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,600 you get a split decision, it's basically like, you know, nothing's ever 74 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:57,120 enforced. And that's exactly what happened with WEICE. But what was interesting was 75 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,040 that the FEC Council put out a report basically saying that not necessarily implicating WIS, 76 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:08,959 but you know, showing a lot of the money that was flushing around 77 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:11,920 there and in the funds that he was giving money to should be probably be 78 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,800 registering his political action committees, and in which case that would you know, 79 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,959 very much alter what they do in terms of you know, transparency and all 80 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:27,199 kinds of other issues. And so it's it's pretty interesting. And I would 81 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:33,519 also note that one very telling detail is that the attorney that represented Vice in 82 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:39,519 the Federal election Commission matter was Mark Elias. It's the Democratic super lawyer. 83 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:45,319 Uh that Yeah, I mean that's almost too perfect, right, you know, 84 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:50,160 if Vice is on the level here, getting the Democratic Party's Democratic Party's 85 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:56,639 most ruthless attorney, you know, out there defending him, uh kind of 86 00:06:56,759 --> 00:07:00,959 is telling. So yeah, well and can you sort of you're you know, 87 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,160 you know a lot about what Elias has been up to over the last 88 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:10,519 decade plus, but especially the last few years. Even it is almost, 89 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,680 I was gonna say, almost suspicious. It's obviously suspicious that these two are 90 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,680 linked up in that way because in the same way a lot of people associate 91 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:26,839 George Soros or the Cookes with very specific causes that they're funneling money intentionally into 92 00:07:27,839 --> 00:07:33,959 we seems to very intentionally be targeting elections. So the connection with Elias is 93 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:42,639 actually feels nefarious. It does feel nefarious, although it would be very careful 94 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,000 here. I mean, I don't know, we know the Vice is specifically 95 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,600 targeting elections. I mean, he says he's not. But the problem here 96 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,959 is again we don't know what we don't know. And I would also add 97 00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:57,319 that I didn't mention this earlier, but but Vice admits to camera with the 98 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,439 actually the actual amount was of the top of my of my head, but 99 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,160 it was it was tens of that. He admits who spending like a hundred 100 00:08:05,199 --> 00:08:11,439 grand uh in political donations in the nineteen nineties directly two candidates, which was 101 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,639 grossly illegal and you know, brazenly. So Vice admits to doing that, 102 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:20,639 but the Statue of Limitations has passed on that, and you know, so 103 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,839 he's not going to be held accountable for it. So it's hard to take 104 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,279 him at his at his word. And then you get you have a guy 105 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:31,279 like Mark Elias, who you know, is not only the Democratic pitball in 106 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:37,159 terms of you know, contesting every close election that they've had in many recent 107 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:43,559 election cycles. You know, he's also the guy that was behind the dossier 108 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:48,360 operation on behalf of the TNC the Trump Russia dossier. So you know, 109 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:52,279 again, Elias is a guy that knows where the bodies are buried and is 110 00:08:52,279 --> 00:08:56,960 willing to do anything to protect the Democratic Party. So in this case, 111 00:08:56,159 --> 00:09:03,559 you know, they know that devices is so valuable to them in terms of 112 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,000 the money that he's giving them that you know they're willing to obviously do anything 113 00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:11,120 they can to protect him and to protect this sort of arrangement that they have 114 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,679 going on. I mean, that's that's pretty clearly what's happening. And where 115 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,679 did his money come from? Do we know where he made his money? 116 00:09:18,919 --> 00:09:22,440 Yeah, he owns a very he started and runs a very large medical device 117 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:28,720 company. H And I actually didn't go into this in the in the story, 118 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:35,519 but he's a very controversial figure because, among other things, his medical 119 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:45,720 device company was caught doing medical testing on some like spinal device without getting like 120 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:54,240 without getting sorry, what's the Pharmaceutical Regulatory Agency's approval? Without getting the FDA's 121 00:09:54,279 --> 00:10:01,240 approval, And they just did this like in this unlicensed way and put this 122 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,799 like device in a bunch of people and some of them died. And one 123 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,360 of his employees told a grand jury that that the person that directly made this 124 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:13,759 decision to do them the testing and the device without getting anta approval was Vice 125 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,320 himself. And Vice is apparently like such a hands on guy at his company 126 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,039 that like he literally approves, according to some employees, like what toilet paper 127 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,919 they use in the building, Like that's how involved he is and stuff. 128 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,279 So there's a lot of questions about him, you know, personally on that 129 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,360 level, you know, and he obviously has very much a political agenda. 130 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:39,759 I mean, his own sisters wrote over his biography and said that, you 131 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,799 know, his goal was to quote reinterpret the American Constitution a light of progressive 132 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,919 politics, and he's he's he's very much a big lefty. He does donate 133 00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:50,200 to a lot of you know, I will say he does donate to a 134 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:54,320 lot of like environmental and conservationist causes that you know, people on the other 135 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,960 side of political events might not necessarily have a problem with. But he very 136 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,279 clearly has an ideological left wing you know, and things of agenda, and 137 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,360 that's coming out here for sure. Yeah, I was going to ask more 138 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:13,440 about that. The point from his sister is fascinating the fact that there's even 139 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,360 you know that that kind of personal insight is fascinating. And again, this 140 00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:22,039 is somebody who's Swiss. Why on earth? You know, I'm not asking 141 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,279 you to like put him on the couch here and you do a Freudian analysis, 142 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:31,440 but like, what what do we know about why he's targeting American politics 143 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,759 that that last quote you said? Is there any way that you can kind 144 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:39,639 of flesh out what you've discovered and you're reporting? That's a really good question, 145 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,720 and I wish I could give you a better answer, but I mean, 146 00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:45,240 I really just don't know. I Mean, the bottom line is that, 147 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:48,519 you know, I think he feels you know, he's an old billionaire, 148 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,000 and he feels very strongly about, you know, certain left wing causes, 149 00:11:54,039 --> 00:11:56,840 and he feels that in the United States is the most important influential place 150 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,840 on Earth, and if he can get the United States to make a hard 151 00:12:00,919 --> 00:12:03,440 left turn and it will make things better for everybody, And so he's throwing 152 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,919 his money in that direction. I mean, all of the statements about his 153 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,240 ideology tend to be pretty broad, you know. And the only thing I 154 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,120 can you know, I know for sure is that he you know, he 155 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,559 cares a lot about specific environmental causes, but you know, he's definitely you 156 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:24,399 know, down with you know, progressive change. But you know, as 157 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,840 far as I know, him giving them money to Arabella is just you know, 158 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:35,840 the entire like hard left, a liberal agenda in America that he's you 159 00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:41,840 know, broadly supportive of. Hey, y'all, this is Sarah Carter, 160 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,320 investigative columnist and host of The Sarah Carter Show. Thanks for listening to the 161 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:50,399 Federalist. We all have a heartfelt reason to support our blood pressure. 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But Mark, as you're digging into Wes's cash infusions over 178 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:13,120 to Arabella, can you tell us a little bit more about how why a 179 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,799 that? You know, if you're an old billionaire with these ideological goals in 180 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,799 mind, that's kind of a logical place to follow your money into American politics 181 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,399 and be a little bit more about Arabella and how they might they might advance 182 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,200 the goals of somebody like that with all that money. Yeah, so, 183 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:35,519 you know, I kind of touched this a little bit, But I mean 184 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:43,799 Arabella Advisors is basically like one large umbrella group. They underneath Arabella Advisors is 185 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,279 you know, four or five other groups and then each of these you know, 186 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:54,679 the subgroups creates a lot of these what we call so they call pop 187 00:14:54,799 --> 00:15:00,240 up groups or whatever, like they will you know, like, don't know, 188 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,120 citizens in North Carolina for you know, a Better Future or something like 189 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,639 this, and they make these groups look like their grassroots groups even though they're 190 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,919 like two people removed from being you know, puppeteered from by professional activists in 191 00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:18,320 Washington. And you know, these groups will be you know, they'll create 192 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,879 a poppet issue for a specific issue that they think will affect a congressional race, 193 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:24,879 and then they'll you know, funnel the money down through there. And 194 00:15:24,919 --> 00:15:28,720 it's kind of amazing because there's a bunch of these pop up groups that like 195 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,480 sort of come and go and very often that you know, even the major 196 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,279 press will be convinced that these are grassroots groups. You know, you'll see 197 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,840 PolitiFact or you know, you know, other newspapers like citing these groups like 198 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:45,440 they're just some sort of you know, you know, plucky, concerned local 199 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:48,039 citizens. That's very much not the case, and so that's kind of how 200 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,919 they operate. More specifically, want to peel back the curtain there. You 201 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,600 know. Arabella was founded by a guy named Eric Kessler, who's a former 202 00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:00,240 Clinton White House employee and was big, big part of the Clinton Global Initiative, 203 00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:04,039 which you know, if you know anything about the fundraising controversies over there, 204 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:10,320 you know how shady that was as well. And there's really no question 205 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:18,559 about like how plugged in Arabella Advisors is. There was this issue, Gosh, 206 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,399 I camera when exactly it was, but I mean, since Biden's been 207 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:30,000 president, somebody foyd I think it was the USDA Communications and they found this 208 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,320 like a big email chain involving something that was going on where it was like 209 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:40,120 the USDA Secretary, the Agriculture Secretary, and a whole bunch of agriculture employees 210 00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:42,679 and for some reason, the head of Arabella Advisors was the only non governmental 211 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:48,320 employee on this this chain. You know they are you know obviously, you 212 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:56,000 know, the Biden White House isn't making any big decisions without consulting Arabella, 213 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,600 you know how you know, more consulting them regularly on things. So you 214 00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:04,319 know, this is pretty sketchy in terms of how this stuff is operating. 215 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:11,960 And further, what's fascinating about this is, you know, the whole reason 216 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:17,640 why dark money as we know it exists was the twenty tens Supreme Court decision 217 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,039 the Citizens United, which at the time Democrats scream bloody murder about and they 218 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:30,880 complain that it would enable exactly what Arabella Advisors is doing. You know, 219 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,599 that was the initial complaint, and it went on for years. I mean, 220 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:40,160 when Barack Obama launched the superPAC in twenty twelve, you know who was 221 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,519 it was a rust Fine Gold you know, gave this you know speech crying 222 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:48,319 you know how corrupt this was. But the Obama campaign went and did it. 223 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:53,799 And now we have a situation where the Democrats were convinced that Republicans were 224 00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:56,160 going to be the ones hoovering Paul the Court money and doing all this, 225 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,480 you know, these terrible things with these dark money groups. But it turns 226 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,160 out the Democrats didn't just aren't just like beating Republicans out of his stark money 227 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,920 game. I mean, they're just blowing Republicans out of the water, and 228 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,799 they're doing it really, really aggressively, and you know it's they're basically, 229 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:17,559 you know, corrupt in ways that the twenty three Democrats are, you know, 230 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,880 corrupt in ways that the twenty ten Democrats were, you know, seriously 231 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:25,319 worried about and that's kind of where we are. That's wild. I remember, 232 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,480 I think there's an orange cast and I think I maybe asked Orton about 233 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:30,720 this. Last time he was on the podcast, he gave a quote to 234 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,200 The New York Times saying, you know, it might be time for the 235 00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:38,359 right to rethink Citizens United in light of the consequences that have unfolded over the 236 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,480 last ten or so years. Mark, as you've looked into it, do 237 00:18:42,599 --> 00:18:47,119 you think there's any appetite or any sort of predicate for you know, maybe 238 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,480 even like Republican politicians, conservative movement groups to look over, you know, 239 00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:56,759 the portfolio of somebody like weee and say yeah, as Arabella sort of starts 240 00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:03,079 sprawling out and and you know you have Zuckbucks pouring in all of these different 241 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,599 things, what do you think about that? Well, that's a really good 242 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,759 question. I mean, the problem with Cistems United is there's legitimately a broader 243 00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:14,960 free speech issue about outside spending. And remember what that case was about. 244 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,400 It hinged on the idea that it was illegal under campaign finance laws to show 245 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,759 a film criticizing Hillary Clinton within a certain time frame before an election, which 246 00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:30,240 is like absolute insanity. So you know, Broadly speaking, I do think 247 00:19:30,279 --> 00:19:36,799 that there are pretty legitimate free speech concerns on but uh that you know, 248 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,599 aren't adequately addressed that you know, campaign finance laws were prior to that we're 249 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:47,559 definitely stepping on. However, you know, obviously there are you know, 250 00:19:47,599 --> 00:19:49,920 all kinds of problems that have come out of this. I do think though 251 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,079 that you know, it's not like an either or issue, you know, 252 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,279 either we repeal Citizens United or were stuck with this. I mean, there's 253 00:19:57,319 --> 00:20:00,920 a lot that we could do with like you know, regulation, you know, 254 00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:04,000 in between these things, you know, I mean, it wouldn't be 255 00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:07,920 hard for instance, to say that, you know, foreigners can't give money 256 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,599 to you know, outside spending groups that you know, spend money on you 257 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,480 know, the Bible and C four groups or whatever they are. Uh, 258 00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:18,359 you know, there's a lot of things that you could do. Like I 259 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:23,440 said, the you know, the FEC's own council's report was pretty skeptical of 260 00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:27,240 this vice relationship. It's just you know matter I think of creating awareness and 261 00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:30,759 momentum or whatever to get people to get off their butts and sort of you 262 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:36,720 know, actually do something about it. But but yeah, I mean I 263 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:38,640 do think that conservative. This is one of these areas where, you know, 264 00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:44,960 sort of post Trump and you know, this has been kind of happening 265 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:49,640 for a while where I think that Conservas need to rethink their relationship with sort 266 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:56,519 of corporate oligarchy. You know, I think it's really become obvious. It 267 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,119 was starting to become obvious, I think with the rise of these you know, 268 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,400 massive silicon valley companies in the in the early mid offs. But like 269 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,960 you know, there's just so much wealth concentrated in so so few hands these 270 00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:11,960 days that we really need to look at the effect that that's going to have 271 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,960 on the political system in terms of how they're able to spread that money around. 272 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,759 Yeah, and it's when the social consensus on ethics whenever breaks down that's 273 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,119 even more difficult. And that actually brings me to the next question, which 274 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,359 is how is weee able to stay in the shadows because there are some and 275 00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:34,599 a does he want to do that? And then, be regardless of whether 276 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,680 or not it's been his goal to be really public, he actually has managed 277 00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:44,359 to garner very little attention from the people you'd think would be you know, 278 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,759 raising a five alarm fire about some of this. So what's the what's the 279 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,599 deal there. Well, you're right, he hasn't gotten nearly as much attention 280 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:57,799 as you know, you would think considering i mean, spending half a billion 281 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,200 dollars on left wing political causes and being a foreigner. That said, it's 282 00:22:03,279 --> 00:22:11,240 interesting because he's such this arrangement is so dodgy that you know then, like 283 00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:14,839 you know you mentioned earlier on Ken Vogel, the New York Times has done 284 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,240 some pretty you know, hard hitting reporting on this. Associated Press actually, 285 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:22,359 which has been you know, just a font of hackery in recent years, 286 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,759 did a pretty big critical article on Vice in the last year or so as 287 00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:30,519 well. So he has gotten some attention. But what's interesting, though, 288 00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:33,079 is one of the reasons why he's gotten so much attention is that Vice is 289 00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:37,400 very like outspoken about what he's doing and what he's done. I mean, 290 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,039 the whole reason why we know that, like he made illegal legal donations in 291 00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:45,880 the nineties is you know, he cops to it publicly. You know, 292 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:51,799 he talks openly about the stuff that he does, and he's very unusual in 293 00:22:51,839 --> 00:22:55,079 that regard, which brings us back to the point I was saying earlier about 294 00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:57,400 what we don't know, what we don't know, you know, Vice has 295 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,480 been very public, you know, if you're paying it's you know, even 296 00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:04,960 if he hasn't been covered by the American press, you know, who are 297 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,160 provincial and not interested in this stuff. He's been very open in the German 298 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,960 press, for instance, about like his desire to influence American politics and what 299 00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:18,000 he's doing. And so he's kind of interesting in that he's not hiding it. 300 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,240 But that makes you wonder what are they doing with the sources of money 301 00:23:23,319 --> 00:23:26,920 that they are hiding because you know, five W one C four groups like 302 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:32,359 this do not have to disclose what they're doing, who their donors are, 303 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,599 and you know, and so there could be all kinds of other shady things 304 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,680 that are happening, all kinds of other foreign billionaires that we don't know about. 305 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,640 So you know, there's a lot under the hood there that you know, 306 00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:49,480 we probably should know. That's a happy thought. Well, that actually, 307 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,240 again is a good transition to the next question I wanted to ask, 308 00:23:52,279 --> 00:23:57,640 which is basically, as you were going through public documents and trying to piece 309 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:03,559 this very comprehensive story together, how difficult was it to kind of nail down 310 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,200 the picture of what's happening because a lot of the stuff, from my impression 311 00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:15,200 is intentionally convoluted. You're describing the kind of process through which this money goes, 312 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:18,680 you know, into C four, C three's whatever it is, and 313 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,400 ends up affecting elections. That has to be as a reporter, really difficult 314 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,920 to create a clear picture. Is sort of like get the fog out of 315 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,160 the way and see clearly what's happening. Yeah, absolutely, you're right about 316 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,799 that. And one of the things that's sort of a giant pain in the 317 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:41,440 pud about writing stories like this is you really have to spend a lot of 318 00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:44,440 time thinking, you know, with some sort of trying to write it some 319 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,799 sort of clarity to explain a lot of sort of like convoluted things. But 320 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,400 I'll tell you, you know, I was speaking as an investigative reporter and 321 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:55,680 someone who's writting a million stories about policy and stuff over the last twenty years. 322 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,319 While not literally a million stories, but a lot of heavy pa policy 323 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,640 stories. This is the whole ballgame. It's weaponized complexity. You know, 324 00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:10,400 they they you know, the reason why the laws and everything are so complicated 325 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,440 and stuff anymore is you know, almost by design, and they know that, 326 00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:15,680 you know, they can hide in the complexity of it, and that 327 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,599 the people that are you know, really good at at manipulating that complexity are 328 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:25,039 the people that sort of you know, prosper and you know, gain power 329 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,400 and that you know, and that leaves the average citizen kind of in the 330 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,480 dust. I mean, you know, normal people reading the news don't have 331 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:37,960 time to necessarily even like follow this stuff, even when people like me put 332 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:38,880 a lot of effort to sort of like lay it out there, because I 333 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:45,240 mean, I admit it's just it's like, really really difficult. But I 334 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:52,000 do think that there is some sort of there's a growing consensus, you know, 335 00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:56,039 emerging, and not just against the sort of shady stuff that's going on 336 00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:59,599 with Vice. And I should add that I talked to some uh you know, 337 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,319 I talked to at least one you know, prominent left wing grassroots group 338 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,319 that has been very outspoken about this sort of stuff. I mean, there 339 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,119 are still a significant part of the left that has been remained fairly principled before 340 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,759 and after Citizens United in terms of the corruption the money and politics enables. 341 00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:18,920 And certainly at the local level, you've seen Democrats at a state level in 342 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:26,759 Minnesota and Seattle also has a city ordinance spanning foreign money and elections. You 343 00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:32,039 know, so this is an issue where it's kind of frustrating because as complex 344 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,559 that it is and needs to explain to people. You know, national Democrats 345 00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,720 don't want to be put on the spot about this because you know, the 346 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:41,480 congressional Democrats and everything are benefiting so much from what Arabella is doing. But 347 00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:45,880 if we could just get this issue up to a level where the ordinary person, 348 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,720 ordinary person understands what's going on, I mean, it's like a seventy 349 00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:56,799 eighty percent you know issue where you know, Democrats Republicans alike look at this 350 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,279 and say foreigners should not be spending you know, half a billion dollars on 351 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,200 American politics. And you know there are some people out there. Marco Rubio 352 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,039 has been, you know, championing legislation to you know, wrack down on 353 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:12,920 this stuff. And he he's even attracted support from a couple of moderate dams. 354 00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:18,079 But you know, it's still not anywhere it needs to be in terms 355 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:25,720 of public awareness. Is there any connection between WEIS and the Swiss government or 356 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,599 any I mean any foreign government. Obviously what I'm getting at is that would 357 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,599 raise Ferret concerns if he's acting on behalf of another government. It doesn't sound 358 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,519 like he is. But do we have any reason to believe that he's connected 359 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,039 in any direct way to these governments or maybe indirect ways that might be relevant. 360 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,319 Well, I don't have any proof about what Vice is up to specifically, 361 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,519 but we know in the past, for instance, there was a big 362 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,279 scannel in the nineteen nineties where the Chinese Gardment was funneling money to Democrats, 363 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:03,880 specifically to Clinton. Was Clinton's re election campaign on This all emerged in the 364 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,680 sort of mid late nineties, and it was a big deal and a big 365 00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:10,920 scandal at the time, you know, and obviously anytime you're getting significant amounts 366 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,599 of sums from the from anyone in Chinese business in this case, and you 367 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,160 know, these were people that were like spending time at the embassy and stuff. 368 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,480 So I don't think there was any doubt this on how this money was 369 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:27,519 tied into Chinese intelligence. And you know, obviously we're looking at, you 370 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:32,680 know, some of the Hunter Biden stuff or whatever. There's definitely the you 371 00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:37,799 know, own awareness among you know, America's biggest rivals, and frankly, 372 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:44,880 anyone that wants to have an impact on American policy, you know which is 373 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:51,119 you know, a real source of power and financial gain, knows that funneling 374 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,119 money into American politics can pay huge, huge dividends. And so yeah, 375 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,480 we should absolutely One reason why we should know ban this foreign money straight out 376 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:03,119 is because it would make a much hard or foreign influence operations and foreign intelligence 377 00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:07,480 people to compromise or politicians. And I'm certain that that is happening right now, 378 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,359 whether or not the politicians themselves here you don't even realize they're being used 379 00:29:11,359 --> 00:29:18,640 as pawns. And again, this is it takes me back to when a 380 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:23,200 Citizens United b Farah Farah comes out of World War Two, as we're trying 381 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,720 to crack down on foreign influence over like American discourse, you are people being 382 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,480 paid by Germany to sort of bang the isolationist drums and to prevent, you 383 00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:37,640 know, influence or to create influence, undo influence that we should at least 384 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,279 know about. It's not illegal, but there should be some kind of measure 385 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:45,559 of transparency to it. Citizens United, as you say, has a really 386 00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:52,720 fair kind of free speech complaint or lamentation at its heart, But when somebody 387 00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:57,480 is a foreign agent or not even if they're whether they're just a foreign citizen 388 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,960 they're not, and maybe they're not acting on behalf of a government or anything 389 00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:07,400 to afford them this kind of lack of transparency that even American citizens trying to 390 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,680 influence American politics. I mean, it just seems so completely skewed and insane. 391 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:17,000 Is there any interest other than Marco Rubio? Is there anything at all 392 00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:22,119 coming from the left to crack down on this from a policy perspective? Well, 393 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,599 like I said, I think there are a number of grassroots groups on 394 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:29,400 the left that are interested in this and have been pushing model legislation that they've 395 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,400 they've gotten pasted in you know, cities and states, you know, specifically, 396 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,200 Uh gosh, what was the name of that group? Free Speech for 397 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,880 People is the name of the group that has been pushing this to the local 398 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:52,920 level. They also fouled an FEC complaint against President Trump because this inaugural committee 399 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,480 took a half a million dollar contribution from a Venezuelan owned oil companies, Sick 400 00:30:56,559 --> 00:31:00,759 Go, you know. And you know, I think that, like I 401 00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:03,920 said, the right and the left, this is an issue where they can 402 00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:07,839 they can absolutely agree. I mean, I'm you know, you know, 403 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,680 there was also an issue in recent years where I think it was a Jeb 404 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:18,400 Bush superPAC got fined for taking I believe it was Chinese money. So you 405 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,519 know, it does happen on both sides. This is an issue where I 406 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:29,960 think, you know, everybody can agree, and uh, I don't and 407 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,079 and and I would also add that you know, a foreign citizen doesn't quite 408 00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:40,000 have First Amendment rights the way that an American citizen would. So I mean, 409 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,680 I think this is just a matter really in a lot of ways, 410 00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:47,440 of closing a loophole in some respects. I mean, I you know, 411 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,480 it's I have a hard time imagining if Congress passed a lot Ofmorrow saying that 412 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,880 you know, foreigners can give money to five O one C fours or other 413 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,359 adocacy groups that are you know, somehow affecting politics of the Supreme Court would 414 00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:02,599 look at that and go like no, no, no more free speech. 415 00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:09,119 I have a hard time imagining that that would still be in this situation here 416 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,839 where there would be a very expansive view of free speech in terms of how 417 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,880 it affects campaign spending, you know, or political spending, but you know, 418 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:25,039 would would filter out a lot of pernicious, seditious influences, and you 419 00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:30,680 know, obviously Mark Elias would be out there doing his his darned us to 420 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,400 defend Weee every single second possible. Mark, A big question that I have 421 00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:44,319 for you is simply, what is David Harsani most wrong about? You know? 422 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:50,359 It's funny. The thing about David is that we're close in age to 423 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:57,000 each other, and we have very similar music tastes, like very similar in 424 00:32:57,119 --> 00:33:00,079 that, you know, we listen to a lot of like eighties alternative and 425 00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:02,359 you know, punk and stuff growing up, and so like David and I 426 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:10,319 are like in total lock step when it comes to music, like and you 427 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,000 know, I cared deeply about this stuff and so does David. So you 428 00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:19,400 know, we're both like total music nerds. And that's great, and usually 429 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,920 that would translate into other things, but it seems like every like Netflix or 430 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:31,480 TV show recommendation he's given Molly, I'm like, what is this? Like 431 00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:37,400 the octopus one where the I'm just imagining David sitting at home watching the one 432 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,640 where the guy is in love with this I think it's called My Pet Octopus 433 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,039 something like that. Yeah, I know what you're talking about, it I 434 00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:45,680 don't, I don't know. I remember like it was like really into this 435 00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:52,119 show about how like I think it's like English people buy houses in other countries 436 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,480 or something like this and adapting to the local culture or whatever. And it 437 00:33:55,599 --> 00:34:00,519 was like, and I'm, you know, an interested cosmics Halton guy, 438 00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:02,119 and it was just like one of the most boring things that I hadn't ever 439 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:08,559 seen. You know, you should change your Twitter bill to just interesting cosmopolitan 440 00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:15,440 guy. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to like praise myself there or 441 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:20,239 whatever. I think of myself as a you know, cosmopolitan enough guy, 442 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,559 I should say, yes, I'm a m I don't know. It's danger 443 00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:29,119 really close to you know, America hating globalists these days, so I should 444 00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,960 be very careful about that. Yes, it's coded language. I'm out of 445 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:37,360 you're trying to protect the country from foreigners, not you know. I noticed 446 00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:40,400 this morning. I think it was this morning you retweeted a really good long 447 00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:45,719 essay on Lucien to Williams. Did you get a chance to read her memoir 448 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,079 that came out this year? No, I did not, And I don't 449 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:52,800 know what tweet you're talking about. Oh, it was a real clear it 450 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,760 was a real clear like long reads. Oh okay, yeah, yeah, 451 00:34:55,119 --> 00:35:00,639 I No, I did not read her memoir. Although I saw her perform 452 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:06,400 at a afl CIO Union event up in Philadelphia once, which was kind of 453 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,760 cool because I should have tried to cover the event. The next thing you 454 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:14,000 know, I'm seeing Lucy to Williams play perfect. Yeah, the Dems do 455 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,960 have better musicians and music musical acts at their political stuff. I will say 456 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,599 that she go ahead, Now, I was justn't saying fairness. This wasn't 457 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:24,320 a Dem event. This is an a fl CIO event, which, sure, 458 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,840 I'm not like the world's biggest union guy, but I have a lot 459 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,079 more respect for that than showing up at a for you know, for blue 460 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:36,000 collar union guys then than you know, the Democratic convention. She I saw 461 00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:42,119 her in Milwaukee when all of the act ten Scott Walker stuff was going on, 462 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,760 like right smack in the middle of it, and she was, you 463 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,760 know, out and being sort of an advocate on behalf of the strikers. 464 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,599 But I also in her memoir she starts off by sort of how the politics 465 00:35:53,679 --> 00:35:59,239 of her parents and of the fifties and sixties in the South informed her her 466 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,679 music. So I was just curious if you'd read them, Mark, because 467 00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:05,320 it's excellent. But no, but it sounds like the kind of thing i'd 468 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,920 be interested in, that's for sure. Would you would know? You totally 469 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,440 would anything else that we've we've missed in this conversation, or any music you 470 00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:15,159 want to recommend to people for the early Fallmark, well, I'm not going 471 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:22,239 to recommend Taylor Swift. But you broke the internet again. Yeah, I 472 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,840 don't know. Well, it had to be said. The thing is, 473 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,760 I don't care that people like Taylor Swift. What really was starting to bother 474 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,039 me was like the New York or the New York Times or like all coming 475 00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:34,360 out of the woodwork and force to say that she will just stayd No, 476 00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:37,480 No, she's really terrific, when that's just not true. Yeah, that's 477 00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:42,880 what we have to We have to some standards here people. That's fine, 478 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,840 I get it if you like her, but let's not pretend that she's Yeah, 479 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,519 well, if you if you missed what we're referencing. Mark has a 480 00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,880 great story up at The Federalist this week on the decline of civilization and the 481 00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:00,800 rise of Taylor Swift and how two things might be connected. Is there any 482 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,639 quick teas or you want to offer the audience if they haven't checked the piece 483 00:37:02,679 --> 00:37:06,239 out yet. Oh no, I mean, I just just go ahead and 484 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:07,880 read the piece because I kind of like had to back into this and be 485 00:37:08,039 --> 00:37:13,079 very careful because as it is, I'm filling out paperwork for the witness Protection 486 00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:15,519 program. It could have been worse if I hadn't been some cautious and sort 487 00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:17,599 of explaining my views. I like that you said you had to back into 488 00:37:17,679 --> 00:37:21,559 it, because the other piece, of course that really broke the internet mark 489 00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:24,039 was your We've never talked about it on the podcast speaking of backing into it 490 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,880 parking, but market is adamant that people should not be backing into parking spots, 491 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:37,360 and this infuriated people worldwide. I have never written anything like that. 492 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,960 I'm not kidding. I wrote that article in I think was it January. 493 00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:45,280 Yeah, and I still get approached about twice a week by total strangers like 494 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,840 you're the backing in the parking space this guy, and let me tell you 495 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,239 why you're right or why you're wrong. People aren't coming up and saying, 496 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:58,599 let me tell you why you're right. No, well people people are actually 497 00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:00,360 saying thank you. No, I get that a lot, actually, thank 498 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:06,320 you so much for writing it. It is true that like certain very large 499 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,519 trucks it's easier to back into, and that makes some sort of sense. 500 00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:13,639 And there are other a few random circumstances, but like I see this all 501 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,960 the time, like I mean, and I live in a very sort of 502 00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:22,360 high density area, and I'm I'm convinced that, you know, a good 503 00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:27,559 twenty minutes of my life is wasted every week by waiting for people to back 504 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,079 into spaces because they're just not as efficient in backing up as they'd like to 505 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:34,360 think they are. Yeah, that's true. It's it's a fair point. 506 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,480 It's another Yeah, I go if you want to, if you want to 507 00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:40,280 be angry, go ahead and toggle over to Mark's office page at the Federalist. 508 00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:45,199 I'm busy thinking up of you know things, What can I do that 509 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,960 will divide society and cleave society into two? Right now? Do you have 510 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,519 any other ideas that you want me to do to foment civil war? Just 511 00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:54,960 let me know. Marks over there, just trying to figure out how to 512 00:38:55,039 --> 00:39:01,920 heighten my contradictions, imantize the escaton. Yes, Mark having away as senior 513 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:07,480 investigative writer over at Real Clear Investigations, Books editor at Federalist and just all 514 00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:12,599 around Cosmopolitan interesting guy. Thanks so much for joining this Saturday, Mark, 515 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,800 thanks for having me. You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio 516 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,840 Hour. I'm Emilia Shinski, culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be 517 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,159 back soon with more. Until then, belover's freedom and anxious for the frame, 518 00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:37,119 heard the fame, the reason, and then it faded away.