WEBVTT

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Allow everyone. I'm Sotero. I'm
one of the the big core committeers and

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in Tokyo it's I'm nine am in
Japan, so it's pretty somewhat our owning,

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but I'm fine. Thank you for
inviting me to the this podcast,

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and I'm very excited to talk here. So yeah, absolutely, Yeah,

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a lot of exciting stuff coming from
the Ruby cour team. We got Ruby

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three point three in December, which
is exciting and yeah, lots of cool

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stuff. Do you want to tell
everybody what you do on the Ruby courteam?

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Yeah? Uh yes, so uh, I'm my project is RBS in

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the d BI core. It's a
Lubi jam that is ban joge uh.

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I think that it was started from
the dubichavenlessly there forget exactly, but yeah,

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it's included in the B distribution and
you can use that without the another

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step two in store that jem uh. It's how let's say that for the

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type checkers or type chickens. So
okay. The Yeah, r B S

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is a language. It's also a
language, uh. It is to describe

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the structure of the U r B
programs. So your programs has some classes,

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some modules, some methods, and
mainly lates the each other. So

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the RBS is a lranguage to how
they said to describe the structure of the

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classes modules, and it is also
a jem to find the files and road

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to the euro B program and doing
something to yeah, interpreting the language.

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Well, well, I'm gonna ask
the big question for this summit, and

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that is what is the future of
Ruby? And it doesn't necessarily have to

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be type checking your type signatures.
Uh, any part of Ruby that you're

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excited to talk about, or anything
you're excited to see, come out happy

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to hear about any and all of
it. Eventually we will talk about type

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signatures, but we can start wherever
you want. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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uh so, yeah, I think
that I guess that's choking about the

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future of the RBS or some types
in the community. Uh yeah. So

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I started bucking Poesy ATBSM about five
years ago. So and then walk developed

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some gemons and yeah. I also
developed a static type checker for dub.

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It's called and yeah this uh my
my projects I'm working for ready to to

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be Yeah. I hope the inter
future, the more LUBI programs or more

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lobbists uses that gems or right types. Uh, right, types, I

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don't know, but yeah, this
is the difference between me and much about

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the what the types can do for
the programs. But yeah, so he

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has writing types. But yeah,
I mean, I mean yeah, two,

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I mean that, uh, I
don't think that forcing writing types to

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your programs, of course, but
that Yeah, the the point is that

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to get the uh the maximum auto
the types or the auto the analysis,

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so you have to it's it's better
to describe your being. And yes,

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solids at types in some programs.
So yeah, but that, yeah,

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I mean that getting more popular making
my type systems, gems, i'd BS

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and Steve more popular in dubs well
of step peaches. I'm thinking about bube.

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Okay, Yeah, I I haven't
done a lot with the types options

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in Ruby. I know that there's
RBS, like you said, I think

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we've talked to somebody about sorbet in
Ruby. I also do a JavaScript podcast

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and this reminds me a little bit
of typescript that sits on top of JavaScript.

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And yeah, I mean, I'm
just trying to think through some of

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the things that I've heard. I've
heard a few people basically talk about how

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it catches bugs or issues that they
wouldn't otherwise run into before they release the

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production. So that's that's one thing. And then a lot of times the

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conversation also goes to tooling. Are
are there any other benefits to having a

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type system in Ruby? Do you
think people would drive people to adopt it?

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Yeah? Yeah, yeah. The
finding some kind of the bugs is

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the absolutely the one of the most
important outcomes from the tickets. But that

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uh yeah, the recent type tickets
also provides some of the integration into the

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edituts. So it will help you
reading. You a bit called writing,

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we are really call it. So
it will show you some of the possible

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massot names as a completion and you
can pick someone, or it will show

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you the uh how would you say
that a documentation? What this messod is

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doing? So what the parameter should
be? Or yeah, right side.

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So this is to help the writing
you are to be caught in idea.

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Another one is that, uh you
it will help you leading your programs,

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leading your programs, so you will
hope some of the nodes in the programs

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and then it will show help the
the editor will help will show you some

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of the documentations of that method,
or you can jump to the method implementation

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to confound what it is doing exactly
where you may find something to some of

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the differences some of the UH to
be caused signifets in your pro project that

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is calling that method. So these
features uh will be Yeah, it will

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really help you reading, writing your
top programs. So yeah, I think

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that it's probably more important than simply
finding the ballots. So we can find

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bulks by writing tests or depraying into
the production and seeing that some bugler post

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work. But yeah, so the
type system just works through annotations basically when

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you use parameters or declaring method or
things like that. Right, Yes,

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Yeah, it's a bit complicated.
I mean that I do you see in

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typescript JEBA, c CHEP or in
any modern type CHECKT brangages that you usually

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expect the writing the type signatures in
USS code just above the method definition.

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What's that? But that RBS is
a bit different from that, so it's

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hard that separate fires. It's a
different rung edge from Ruby. And then

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we need to how they say that
writes something. There some of the obstruction

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of the big program and there,
so there's some crass crafts something or they

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have something to find the mess out
and then yeah, then the typetic away

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combined to to be called an RBS
file and type jack set. Okay,

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yeah it sounds good. So yeah. Well, one thing that's interesting is

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and I haven't seen it as much
in Ruby, but definitely a JavaScript there's

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been a wide amount of adoption for
the types and it basically boils down to

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the tooling and some of the things
that you're talking about. So do you

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think this is going to get a
wide adoption in Ruby or are we do

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we just do things differently then say
the JavaScript community. Yeah, yeah,

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yeah, it's a good question.
Uh yeah, I still don't have any

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concrete conclusion, any conclusion for that. I don't know that how much the

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adoption will be or how it will
be. So there are some cases that

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are I'm pretty sure that if you
develop some application, the type checkers will

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help you so, but that it
also needs some of the type definitions of

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the libraries. So the so if
some some gem auss wright types of the

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gem and includes the definition in the
gym, it works. So it's it's

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very great. Yeah, everyone will
be happy, but that yeah, I

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don't think that every gym alsots want
to do that. So yeah, yeah,

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yeah, some gems will without type
definition. Yeah, so for that

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case, we have how they say, the community managed type definition the poetry,

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so it's under the GitHub to be
organization and called gem rbs correction.

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So we have uh yeah uh some
gems inside the poetry and the type of

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definition of that gems so it's something
like that the plinantary type for that type

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system typescript divascript. So they also
have a big community managed the poetry is

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for the packages that without the type
definition. So we're doing the same.

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I hope it will help you,
but that yeah, the coverage of the

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Jim Obvious correction is very small and
yeah, we are waiting for you contributor

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again. Yeah right, that makes
sense. So yeah, I have to

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say I'm not convinced that this is
something that I want. I'm also not

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convinced though, that it's not something
that wouldn't be good for me. So

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I'm a little curious. What is
the disagreement between you and Matt on un

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Ruby type signatures and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh,

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it's about it what Yeah yeah,
yeah, he says that he wants

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something like the type influence so we
don't have to write types in the to

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be prone or you know, the
type of signatures, but that it would

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be automatically generated from the B programs. M hmm. Okay, yeah,

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this is that what MATS is MAT's
harps and yeah, I don't think it's

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it's very helpful mm hmm. Yeah, because that the BI program is literally

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flexible, so that generated generated types
will be too. I would say that

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too strict or it's too parmisip.
So it means okay, yeah, we

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can pass at something and then we
can get something. So it's it may

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be a type, but it's not
helpful. So we can say that it's

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an integer to indiger, So I
mean that it may be correct, but

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that we may want to pass something
like the throat and then it may work.

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So yeah, so it's it's a
It's very important to find a good

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balance between the two specific one or
two general one the best wait and the

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Yeah, the program is that uh, it's not the it's not the something

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we can find a technically or automatic
carry. But with the the programmer has

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the answer to it. It's a
program as opinion, it's a program as

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intentions. What is the best type
is the program as intentions? And we

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cannot generate the yeah, the very
good one. What much career, Yeah,

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I can. I can see why
that would be a hard problem.

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Yeah, yeah, so it's yeah, uh then we need some types.

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So it's it's it's it's not the
some clinical constraints, but that it's an

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opinion of the oasis. Mm hmmm. So yeah makes sense. So so,

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yes, you said that this was
shipped with Ruby two seven or Ruby

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three zero. So if I want
to use a feature like this, how

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do I turn it on? Do
I just do I even need to like

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require it or gem install it or
uh? Yeah, RBS is a gem.

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It is a bundoy to to be
so yeah, it's I mean that

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when you install some Ruby distribution using
rb M, r b M, I

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don't know. But so then that
gem is already installed on your computer,

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right, so you don't need to
GEM install RBS well something, yeah,

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but yeah, of course require RBS. Yeah, just require RBS. But

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yeah, I also recommend using the
ratest badge nobody. So yeah, yeah,

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I mean I mean that I recommend
the Yeah, putting the RBS in

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your jump fire rocks that that yeah, right, that makes sense. So

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if you put it into your gym
file or so gem INSTALLID then you'll have

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the latest version. Yeah, it
would be the one. Yeah. It

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they recomended way very cool. Yeah, I kind of want to go play

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with it and just see if I
like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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I hope there will be a very
some interesting experience that so that uh,

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you can write that types of to
be programs in GYM in RBS.

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So there's some class something something something. So but that also I yeah,

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my recommendation is that using some static
type checkers, I mean it's deep,

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it's my static type checkers. Then
it will variegate the how this is the

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consistency between the your reprogram and your
RBS type definition, and then it will

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find some type errors or yeah,
it will provide some editor integration and yeah,

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but that if you, yeah,
if you are not interested in using

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the static type checkers works deep,
you can use the RBS gem yourself.

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So you will write the RBS fires
and then you will write some tests for

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the type definitions using the RBS.
So it's somewhat the very uh it's strange,

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but that we we have the how
they say the type definition of the

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program, and we also have a
test against tests for that type definition and

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then yeah, it works. So
this is something that's out there that people

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can already use. So what what
is your type checker? You said it

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was steep steep, Yeah, and
is that also bundled in with rob or

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do I have to go install it? It's not man joyd ind be.

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It should be in store. So
yeah, because of the how they say

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said disagreement with muth but yeah,
yeah that you may not. Also about

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the type prop, it isn't another
project by the It is built on the

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top of the id s and it
doing more closer to what the mat HAPs.

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So it's scans. You got to
be caught and generates the rbs pires

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and so yeah, you don't have
to write down every us pires, but

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that type propriate with you by scanning
the yout to be called. So this

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is uh yeah, type prop is
bandoid to to be so you don't have

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to insult type prop them. Yeah, type properly is bando it, but

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steep it's not band it. Okay, yep, very cool. So yeah,

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it'll be interesting to see if people
adopt this. I've heard various people

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talk about different aspects of type checking
and Ruby and whether or not they like

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it. I know some people really
really like it and some people really don't

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even want to think about it.
So yeah, it'd be interesting for sure.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
think that, Uh. One feature

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I want to see is that a
lot of more projects built on the top

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of RBS. I mean that currently
the yeah type off is aesthetic type checker

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that is is on RBS, and
Steve is also a static type checker.

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And we have our program of I
r B that helps the uh doing doing

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the completion for the your how this
interactive to be programming in our I r

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B. So based on the types
and yes, that's it. So,

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but I think that we want more
projects some for example, the one thing

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I have in my opinion is that
in my mind is that the cup or

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something like that, the Lobo cops
sometimes uh yeah, some of the cops

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in the cup is doing detecting some
probably it's a dangerous messod course, like

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the open kind of open Yeah,
I forget it, but that yeah,

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so, but that it's not very
clear that if it is exactly called that

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open method, but that using the
type chickens, using the desert type chicken,

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the the method detection will be improved. Cool. Yeah, so it

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will give you the more precise of
they're saying that detection which method is called?

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And I mean that, Uh,
we can develop more cops, the

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more cops to find some programmatic to
be called the right. Yeah, I

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mean that if we yeah, if
it is a really common method name or

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out of the misdeediction of the method, we cannot see that cops because there

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will be so many false positives.
But that if we can make it more

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precise, then we can do more
analysis. Right, yeah, makes sense.

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So when you're not working on type
systems for Ruby, what what do

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you do? Oh about the programming? You mean? Yeah? No,

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inpacted, almost everything I do for
to be programming is that type tick ass

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that makes sense? Something realy the
PATHI chickens, Yeah, yeah, I

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use some Yeah, I do some
of the past passing, right. Yeah,

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I'm working for the pasaive generator but
that yeah, it's GEM But yeah,

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makes sense. So do you get
paid to work on RBS then?

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Uh? Yes, I think the
Yeah, Patry not that for time,

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but that yeah. Part of my
WCKJAM is I can usuppose the RBS and

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yeah, it's really it's really very
great cool. Are there other things you

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see coming down the pipe, either
with Ruby or in the Ruby community or

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ecosystem, that you're excited to see. I'm very excited to see the why

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did it's the performance in Broman of
course, and some of the presom pass

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also very great one. Uh yeah, I also planned to use the prism

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to steep and maybe in RBS,
but yeah, not not yet studied,

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but yeah, it would be very
great experience, great improvement. Would also

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love the how I say that,
oh, to be a respe is very

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very great, awesome, It's awesome. So I'm using that in my everyday

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developments. And the last one I
want to mention is that I would say

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that webys and Brie support. Yeah, web some support and the b Yeah,

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they had heard rumors about that.
I don't know where it's at.

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Oh webat and by right yeah,
okay, okay. So it's a kind

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of the running to be interpret or
in your browser. Right. So it's

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something like that we land the JavaScript
in your browser, but that we can

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run to be programmed in the browser. Right. So by yeah. So

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one of the I said, one
of the three use cases of the web

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assembly is that I want you to
provide some playgrounds of this deep in on

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on the browser. So then you
can try type chicking your to be caught

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on the browser by accessing some websites
and it will download some steep to be

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caught and some of them to be
in the preacher that is web assembly,

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and then the brands on your browser. So it would be great, right,

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Yeah. I just looked up an
article and it says that it came

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in the three point two release.
Yes, that's three point two. That

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is very cool. I didn't know
that they had gotten that in there.

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So yeah, yeah, oh what. Yeah, I'm still waiting for some

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of the concurrences support improvements in the
Yeah, this is how they say that

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somewhat be our program to me.
So, because that's deep uses a lot

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of worker processes response up to the
Yeah, it depends on the number of

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the processes on your computer. But
that exponds twenty to be processes to do

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the type chicking. But that we
can, Yeah, but if we do

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some parallelism and inside they do bi
processed will be very great. So because

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that we can stop respawning the twenty
to be processed, but we can use

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twenty threats in the Yeah, twenty
gives I guess that in the in one

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to be processed, right, makes
sense? So what what do I have

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to do to compile Ruby the web
assembly? Oh yeah, I did not

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exactly. Okay, do you know
who's working on it? Because I I'd

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love to pull him in and ask
him a bunch of questions about this.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
didn't know. I didn't know. I

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would see Yeah, webus MB right
now I should track yeah, all right,

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I'll I'll have to track down who's
uh, who's running that? Yeah?

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Cool? Is there anything else you're
looking forward to coming out or mm

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hmm no no, yeah, all
right. Well then I just have one

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more question than that is, if
people have questions about RBS or anything else

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that is coming down the pipe that
you're working on, how do they connect

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with you? I'm sorry that what? Yeah? How do people find you

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online? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm on the discol channel

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the Yeah, I'm on the master
don or Discorde's English social. Yeah,

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it'll be that social. And what
is the Discord channel there to be discord?

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I don't know what is? So
yeah, I'll be there so you

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can talk to me. What Yeah, you can joke to be on the

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open the prodcast or Fire an issue, and the Guitar Project on the RBS

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project. All right, sounds good. Well I'll go ahead and wrap it

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up. Thanks for jumping on and
talking to me. Yeah, thank you,

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Thank you to say it was Leui. Yeah, great, chalk with you