This is not don't expect to be good Night Danny's time straight from You'll find
Me so mind side Fast. Hey everyone, and welcome to side Quest,
the every other week podcast that the authors and Dragon's crew do, in which
case we either have a guest on or talk about nothing at all. Hint
it's probably that latter one tonight. Guess which anyway it is. Yeah,
my name is Rick WILTII and I'm joined by Drew Hayes and Robert Bevan.
Say Hi guys, hello friend. Kind of like this kind of feels like
we're coming down off a major high. I know we're not really going to
do a recap of the game, but this is our first recording after the
finished finish of Chronicles of Calamity, And of course next week in the main
game slot, we will have the wind down, the post mortem, just
a you know, chance to take the questions that we didn't get and you
know, reflect on the campaign in the seven and a half years we spent.
So that'll be a really fun when we might even get a few peaks
at what's coming next. And then the week, well not the week,
the game slot after that will be John's Game, kicking off new characters,
new world, new stupidity, what new opportunities. But you know, tonight
we're not doing that. Some interesting stuff going on the news, but figured
maybe we'd start off with a little uh not side quest. Bon bonus action.
Yeah, little bonus action talking about what pieces of shit Wizards of the
Coast are and goddamn are they some big pieces of shit. Oh my god,
it's like it's like some mustache tilly executive there was. It was like,
hmm, people haven't hated us this week. We should fix this.
I mean, like, I was pretty mad about all the old gl stuff.
That is such a faint fucking candle comparatively, so, if you aren't
caught up on the Wizards of the Coast news from the week we're recording,
the long and short of it is, Wizards of the Coast accidentally sent out
a copy of their upcoming Magic the Gathering Deck that's getting released. They sent
it out by mistake. It ended up in the hands of a YouTuber who
was excited and posted about it, and in response, Wizards of the Coast,
knowing they had no legal recourse, hired a security gram security firm employing
Pinkerton's and if that name sounds familiar to you from Red Dead Redemption, because
they're the union busting, violent pieces of fucking shit who are still known for
doing extract like all kinds of shady fucking stuff. Went into his fucking home
where his family is and basically threatened him into giving the cards back and deleting
the videos. And at this point, they have now put actual human life
in danger over a fucking card game, and not even a stolen card game,
a legally purchased card game, that it was their fu fucking mistake.
Yeah, it's it's so I know, we're all kind of immune or a
nerd to corporations being pieces of shit. No fuck, no, no,
no, this is a step beyond. This is walking into your fucking home,
Like I really I don't want people fired for this. I want them
in fucking handcuffs. Yeah, this is like, this is some shit there.
And like the stories afterwards, like you know, the YouTuber guy sounds
pretty cool and he's like yeah, but the way he kind of downplays it
almost feels like, you know, almost feels like you know these guys and
this is just my speculation. I'm not saying this happened, but it almost
feels like you know, when when the Pinkertons was none they left, they
were just like you know, oh by and by the way, if you
make this sound worse than it is, we will be back. I mean,
it's almost certainly they are known for violence and intimidation that it's pretty much
to be expected. Yeah, but they basically showed up to this guy's house,
apparently scared the shit out of his wife, talking about how they were
going to bring the sheriff down and this guy was going to go to jail
for years and get a two hundred thousand dollars fine and talking a bunch of
bullshit that, let's be honest, wasn't going to happen with a legally purchased
product that honestly, Wizards as a Coast could have solved with a friendly phone
call but decided not to so at this point was a missed opportunity for a
follow up video there. It's a very weird thing to say as a content
creator, but at this point, I think ethically it's more right to steal
every piece of digital content from them that you can than to pay for it.
Now not physical, because that's coming from an actual person who had to
front up costs and retailers and stuff, but uh, fly the pirate flags
on those motherfuckers. Yeah, then I'll also say that nor Nor am I
going to endorse, you know, pulling pulling a bud light on this and
taking all of your Wizards at a coast merchandise and burning it. No,
you paid for it, that's yours. But at this point I am very
disinclined. I was talking a little bit on Twitter, you know, and
the idea is like, yeah, we're gamers, we game. But at
this point, almost anything that I'm going to like send Wizards at a coastway
now, I'm gonna kind of think twice about. It's like do I really
need this? And I hope a lot of other other people are kind of
are kind of doing this. Um. Once again, you know, if
you're a Magic fan, that's awesome. If you're a D and D fan,
that's great. Um, you know, we want to encourage this stuff.
But at the same time, yeah, there's there's something to be said
about you know, if you have the chance to kind of basically look and
say, I could give Wizards a post money or I could basically say fuck
them, Yeah, fuck them as hard as you can as often as you
can. Have they this is the first time I'm hearing about any of this.
Have they a response to it? I don't believe. So let me
double check as of this recording, just so I can be as accurate as
possible. Oh, there's an update. They did have one thing, and
that they they didn't deny it. They basically said, yeah, we hired
these people. Oh yeah, they fully owned it, like they did it.
This is none of this is speculation. Well, none of the parts
about what happened. We have no idea about, you know, the actual
in their things that we were party, but that was speculation, but we
called that speculash. But no, the actual events like they did this.
They they have said they did it. Yeah, I haven't heard any follow
up that really that really sounded like like I heard a lot of apologetic stuff
coming from the guy who wound up with the deck and like then had to
pull his videos down. You know. Basically, No, they were very
nice, they sounded very apologetic. But I've heard nothing from like, you
know, from Wizard's side even remotely sounding like you know, like like they
would hesitate for a second, like you know, if they caught a YouTube
video of your child, like, you know, playing with a magic deck
that they didn't think he should have, that they would send these people to
break his knuckles. Yeah, so apparently they definitely forced their way into his
home. That was part of it all. And uh wizards response was they
strongly refute this depiction of events. They are fucked. I hope, oh
god, I thought, I hope the fuck this person sues the living shit
in it. Oh man, that's what they Fox News. The motherfucker's Yeah.
The problem the realm is and I'm not gonna blame blame this guy in
the least, but he's probably scared. Of course, he's fucking scared.
Yeah, they said people known for killing people to his fucking house to break
into his home. God damn, Court, you're scared. It's just so
fucking insane, like yeah, and that they're just trying to play at all.
I I can't, fucking I truly, I am so fucking done with
this company. Yeah, there's there's gotta be some real pieces of shit working
there. And I mean I'm not saying everybody, because you know there's some
people who work there. They're they're showing up there and they're they're fans.
Of the game, they're of these things. But no, there's there's some
there's some soulless executives there who just look at people as like, you know,
as walking wallets, and they're just reprehensible pieces of shit. Ooh,
there is an update. Apparently they've used the Pinkerton's before. Sat the update.
They've done this fucking before. Yeah, And I mean, and Wizards
is owned by Hasbro, And I mean, you can see behind me.
I'm a Transformers fan, but I'm gonna tell you right now there is a
thriving third party community with regards to Transformers that it's like, Okay, I
could give money to Hasbro, or I could give money to these smaller companies
who're just doing this as like labors of love, where it's kind of a
win win. I still get to have the things I love. I help
a smaller business, and Hasbro can take one of their like you know,
my little pony unicorns and sit the fuck on it. Yeah. But as
much as we would like to rage against the dying of the light for the
entirety of our hour, there's really only so many words with which to call
Wizards the vile, corrupt, morally bank rupt, worthless pieces of fucking shit
they are. So to turn things to a lighter note, we have all
been slowly over the past year so kind of working our way back into conventions,
which if you missed it, somehow around twenty twenty came to a screeching
halt for you know, reasons. But it's kind of been a slow build
as more and more places have begun to you know, we've gotten the vaccines,
we've gotten the boosters, the CDC has lifted various bands, and for
better or worse, like, we're all just kind of we're back into it
now and it's it's been sort of true free year. So but I think
there was a little bit of trepidation, speaking as people who have thrown a
con for the past few years. I know when we did the Nashville one,
we were really nervous because there I think there was a spike like right
afterward, and then even with the Charlotte one, you know, I think
there was a spike in the early summer that had us a little bit scared.
I could be remembering wrong. It's been a fuck over of a few
years. Well, I mean the Natural one might have also been a little
nervous. Because it was Tennessee. Not that there's anything wrong with the fine
people of Tennessee, but yeah, I mean I was lateral for me at
best. Yeah, and so but this year, I really I don't feel
that same level of worry, both from a planning as a con maker and
an attender like it just it kind of feels like we're we're transitioned back to
a sense of normalcy regarding cons, and so it feels a little bit safer
to take on more of them, which I think is reflected in my year.
Bob Rick, what about y'all are you are you getting? Do you
have more cons this year now that things are a little bit more stable or
I mean, I'm broke as fuck, so I'm not going to too many
cons, but that's that I'm looking. I'm looking at some local stuff to
do, and really, yeah, there is a sense of normously, but
it really comes down to each con is going to treat it differently and need
to respect the rules of that con um. That means if a con basically
says, hey, you know you're we're all masking up here, then mask
up. Don't throw a frigging temper tantrum. You just do it if you
want to go. You know, I'm my whole thing is if I am
going to a con, I want to have fun. I don't want to
make it a statement, So I yeah, absolutely respect the rules. I
should have been used a better term there. I think I should have said
stability more than normalcy um, because like I just I'm not afraid that cons
are going to cancel at the last minute in the way that I would have
been worried previous or so I think probably stability is a better reflection that term.
Sorry, Bob, go ahead. I was just gonna say I I've
scaled down cons, not exclusively because of COVID, just I don't enjoy them
as an attendee. I don't tend to sell a lot of books when I'm
trying to sell books there. I don't network well, I just I don't
like cons, except like for like at ours, where I get to be
the center of attention, then I like that. But however, I was
invited and we'll be attending the Southern Fried Gaming Expo, yeah sometime this summer.
I think it may be in August. Awesome, but yeah, that's
aside from ours, that's probably the only one. So we we've mentioned ours
a few times if you all haven't heard the news, um, we are
of course throwing A and Dcon again. Authors and Dragons Coon this year will
be in Portland, Oregon, August eleventh through thirteenth. So far confirmed for
guests, we have Matt Dineman, Amy Landon and acts, along with of
course, of course our usual cast of characters. So if you are interested
in that, be sure to go to aid Authors and Dragons dot com and
click on the A and dcon link. There's a place to buy tickets and
a specialized hotel link that gets you the discount, so be sure to grab
that while those are available. Okay, so moving past the part worth the
obligatory plugging. Also this summer I will be doing Dragon Con. Oh.
I've got my first guest of honor this year. I'm going to be the
guest of honor at Mile High Con in Denver in October. It's the last
weekend of October. Cool. So you're joining the Mile High Club Mile High
Con Club, which I think means I have sex in a prison in the
sky. Okay, well let us let let lets let us know how that
goes. If if you're in tears, the week in the linking of the
week we're recording after we'll know hang on, I'm hastily jatting down the notes
for sky Prison. Oh Romance finally, Oh speak up. I actually just
did a romance based convention with Front of the podcast and upcoming guests Matt Denneman.
We both did Readers Take Denver in Denver, Colorado in late March,
and that was really interesting because it was, I would say truly the first
purely book focused convention I've ever gotten to attend. If you have attended conventions
to see me or USUM, you generally know that the space is almost always
shared with pop culture in general, comics and movies and anime and all all
sorts of stuff, just just because there's usually the crowds are so niche there's
not enough generated by one of them to justify a con um. But I'm
gonna tell you, these folks came out with books on the mind and they
were buying them and getting them signed. There. Everybody had these like collapsible
box totes purely made for hauling books around. Um. It was it was
cool. It was like a community, very neat little things they had done
an excellently run con and it was just very cool to be at a con
where all of the focus was on the books. Kind of started to hear
that like you know that no like hardcover like you know no, like you
know book fights broke out. We're just two people just wailing on each other
with hardcovers or so. I mean, there were a lot of things I
didn't get to go to. Uh so I'm not gonna say what did or
didn't happen? No, that that that that is cool. Yeah, I
mean I don't think I don't think I've heard of anything like that here.
We got a lot of horror conventions in New Jersey. I don't really go
to them because they tend to be ridiculously expensive, But yeah, that would
actually pretty be pretty cool to see how that how that go, Like something
like that would go. I'm kind of I'm kind of like Bob and that.
Uh you know, I don't. I do pretty decently when I do
visit cons, but I don't really have like the sale I am not I'm
not John. I don't have the sales pitch of like you to dragging people
in and being and being like you're not leaving until you buy a book,
motherfucker, but but charming, uh thinking, which we're talking about cons probably
probably, and John does not here because he probably is at a con almost
certainly. Uh yeah, if if we did this about the cons John's doing,
it would just be the next hour. That man, that man is
a machine for conventions. I'm honestly kind of in the boat of you guys.
A few years ago, I guess I sort of just had the revelation
of I am here for the readers who want to come out and see me,
and that's enough. And like at that point, I was just like,
oh, okay, I'm not gonna do the sales hustle or anything.
I'm just gonna dick around on my like laptop and write or get stuff done.
And you know, when people come by, obviously you put it away
and you can talk to them and give that energy to them. But I
stopped trying to spend that energy on people who didn't give a shit anyway.
Like I like, I like my my my dice bowl and stuff, you
know, because it does kind of engage people, and I'd like, you
know, I personally need an icebreaker like that, because otherwise, you know,
somebody uncomfortable comes up and stares at me. I'm standing there uncomfortable staring
at them, and we'll just kind of, like you know, have a
staring contest and then they walk away, each us thinking the other's a weirdo.
So I do I do, like, you know, having that icebreaker
and when a conversation does start out, I do love habitant, but yeah,
I I just do not have that pitch, and I'll be a perfect
honest. I do not like when the pitch has done to me. Because
the last convention I went to UM, I walked through, like you know,
the vendor area once and like there was like three people like, hey,
come here, you want to look at my stuff? And it's just
like, dude, no, some of your fans made me uncomfortable. Some
of my fans make me uncomfortable. I feel like we're waiting for Bob to
weigh in on that, but I don't. Actually, I guess no with
what we didn't pose a question there, did we. I guess we're just
gonna talk about, like philosophically, how we approached the con I think Bob
already kind of gave it to us on that one. Yeah, this this
awkward silence right now, this is why I'm not good at cons either.
Yeah. Now, no, it's it's you know what's weird is you put
me behind my table and if you start talking to me, I will talk
back and like, you know, I need, I need, like you
know, that thing to go. But it's weird. I'm different on panels.
On panels, I have no problem, you know, just getting like
immediately into it. And I wish I could transfer that portion of my brain
too, standing behind like you know, standing behind the table. But it's
like when I'm behind my table, it's almost like, Okay, this is
a bullet proof shield. And if I had enough books, I would just
stack them up so nobody can see me. I mean you could probably do
that. Might be a marketing thing. Ask your riddles and receive a book.
Wait, we have to riddle you. I didn't think this through very
well. I don't know. You know something, I stacked my books and
I just have enough of a slot where people can slide either a credit card
or money through. You know, Bob's gonna try and put his don through
that. I'm gonna stack all my books up by the fire exit. Either
way out marketing right there? Yeah, I mean I I enjoy the making
conversation part. Obviously, if anyone's familiar with the podcast, talking not a
challenge for me. But I guess I just don't try to cast a net.
I If people come to the table, that's awesome. If not,
that's cool too. Now, it's it's definitely different in Dcon because we're going
there. We know, like you know, it's it's our crowd. So
it's like there there, I'm not like, you know, I have no
problem like you know, like looking over to somebody and be like you come
over here and like hang with us. It's like a different it's really a
different dynamic. Yeah, Authors in dragons Con is particularly unique. I mean
because we know why everyone is there. It's yeah, there's a very centralized
draw. I think we had a few folks who came the first year as
guests of people who were attending because it was in Las Vegas, and so
that was a pretty easy sell to make to your friends or significant others.
Um. But yeah, for the most part, it's a pretty the crowd
knows who we are and we know who they are. It's it's like when
someone who is coming up to get books signed at your table arrives except the
entire convention exactly, Whereas conversely, like you know, dragging you mentioned,
um, I've been dragon, and Dragon terrifies me because it's not because not
even a small fish and a big pond. I feel like like a small
piece of shit floating on the top of that big pond. And it's just
there's just so many people there. That's uh, I don't know. I
did a signing next to Jim Butcher last year, like literally I was the
next table over, and I was I felt pretty good about myself because I
had like a line that waited for me, and it took me a good
like thirty forty minutes to get through them. I was like, oh,
this is an awesome amount of folks who came out for me. Um.
But you know, it's to make sure I kept everything in perspective. Jim
Butcher's line was, as you might imagine, extensively longer than forty minutes could
cut for. Well. Also, you you served, you served a very
like you know, important purpose there because it's like, you know, people
would be like, well, Jim, where's where's Jim Butch table It's like,
oh, it's it's next next to that telephone pole. That's sticking up
out of the run. God so convention based experience. I think I've told
y'all this story, but it did um. I do sometimes wonder about how
everyone handles conventions because when I was at Dragon UM at the end of that
signing, I went up to the person who was running it UM just to
say, you know, thank you for having me. You know, standard
polite guest approach. And so I walked up to him and I was like
hey, and like the trepidation with which this gentleman looked at me, I
was like, you think I'm about to start yelling at you for something and
nothing in our interactions, like our our previous interaction was me thanking you for
showing me to the table. So I was like, hey, man,
I just I just wanted to say thank you for having me et cetera.
And he's like, oh, oh, okay, thanks, and I was
just like, oh, man, I feel like you have probably been through
it with some folks at this convention. It's poor dude looking across the room
and true stomping towards him like pree farful. Yeah. Either either he has
a very specific fear of ball guys or he was not having a great day.
Yeah, that's gotta be. That's gotta be that thankless job of like
you know of, because you know, for every person who's who says like
a polite thank you, there's probably thirty people who are just like you.
I'm gonna bitch at you now. I mean, I don't know if it's
a saying, but it should be. The bigger the con the bigger the
egos. Although, but like trip be told, I have that I haven't
ever really seen bad behavior from an author at a cone. I've seen people
get way too drunk, but that's any gathering of multiple people, and I
don't know if they were guests or attendees at that point. It was just
a bunch of people at a bar. Emerald is a shit show. Many
Oh did you get the chance to talk to Jim Jim Butcher do all?
Oh? No, No, that dude was very busy signing books and I
WASNA, that would have been great if you if you just kept leaning over,
It's like, so what's up? Man? I feel like that would
have been a great way to get my ass beat by that lot. If
you run out of your own books, you can start selling mind. I
am excited to go go back. It is a I was told by many,
many people that Dragon Con is a lot, and holy shit, they
were not kidding. H that is that is an intense experience. I mean
sensory overload is the opening point. Oh yeah, I'm when I when I
went h Rachel and my editor Megan Wheel went together and we were staying in
Airbnb, and it was it was nice to get on that train to go
back to that Airbnb at the end because it was just like, okay,
it's quiet by pure accident slash sitcom fate um. I have booked at the
Margaritaville last year. It didn't say Margaritaville when I booked it. It just
said Wyndham. But I got there and I was like, well this is
appropriate. Yeah, I was gonna say that's brand. Yeah exactly, It's
like all right, fate, I get it. And the pool did rock.
They had like sunscreen on tap and a dude playing steel drums. Sunscreen
on tap. I wonder how many people just like walked over there with like
a glass and like port like, oh, this is terrible suck. I
guess I should have said sunscreen on pump. But I want to know Rick's
mindset that he would open a tap and see a sunscreen consistency liquid fill his
cup and day committed to that Corse action. I'm trying, Yeah, exactly
now, I'm I'm I would be like, Okay, this sort this sort
of looks like, you know, like like a smoothie. Oh, it
must be coconut because the sunscreen like smell. You're just making it sound more
delicious. Yeah. Yeah, you've never had a peanut. Alatta, he
gets you're halfway done. Someone tells you it sunscreen and you're like, oh,
in for a petty. By the end, you're doing it on purpose
and making them into cocktail. Yeah. But a little photo rum, it's
pretty good. I textedly you putting enough rum in anything, you know,
it's pretty good. Oh man, So what are some of your best con
lessons you've learned through the years. Uh, General travel tips can also apply.
One of my favorite one this is when I taught Steve inadvertently when we
were at one of the A and D cons And it's the first thing I
do whenever I landed a con or a general trip is I find the nearest
pharmacy slash CVS slash store and I go buy better toilet paper than what the
hotel stocks because it's always one ply bark. I felt I felt bad when
I did wi a con because it wasn't a big con, but I had
the table with like books and stuff, and I'm standing behind it and my
wife calls and she's having an emergency and it wasn't really a really an emergency.
It was more like, you know, she had gotten groceries delivered,
but they didn't come the right way, and it was like, you know,
you have to fix this, and it was like why I'm I'm five
hundred miles away. And of course that's the point when like a few people
walked up and I'm having her screaming at me, and I'm like, you
know, trying to deal with this, and yeah, that was just not
a good thing. That's one of those things where it's like the lesson there
is when the people walk up, it's like, okay, you gotta be
on a hold, you gotta you gotta give, like you know, the
the people there, the full the full you, the full attention, they're
there. They're there. If they're walking up to you, you can't give
unless it's life or death. You really can't you know, play any games
with that. Unfortunately I managed to find them after the fact and apologize,
but I felt I felt really bad about that. Yeah, I guess similarly,
I say every con I'm never bringing my family again, but I'll always
fail, and I will say, having set up a table next to a
certain someone, I'm glad that I always over prepare and bring extra pens and
things like that. I've gotten better. I did that first com we'reight you
showed up with like with books, and it was like, I don't know,
did you even have a credit card reader? No? I still don't.
I had at one point, and uh, I dropped in a toilet.
How are you having a hard time believing that? Why was your credit
card reader out around in toilet? What kind of transaction were you doing?
Oh god, this is glory whole day. What was he gonna do?
Not tip the bathroom attendance? Okay? Okay, So I was gonna ask
girl, well, how have you done any dcons? And I remembered we
did the Condensed bookstore, So yeah, that tracks yep, all right,
I love that Condensed. Well. The only the only thing I didn't like
about this past year was I like I didn't understand the instructions, so I
brought a whole bunch of table stuff that I really didn't realize I didn't have
to pack and bring. It was just like, oh, you just need
my books, okay. Condensed bookstore is great. That one. I don't
know if we can call it a lesson, but it was John Hartness's idea
from a few years ago. Rather than all of us singularly running our own
tables and eating up shitloads of time when we could be doing other stuff at
the con and you know, putting on panels interacting with folks, we just
piled our books into one consolidated bookstore, shared our priceless and had people acting
as the checkout folks. And so that freed us all up to engage with
the con a lot more meaningfully. And that I mean just an absolute slam
dunk. Yeah, I wish I had at every con. And by more
meaningfully, I meant when like it's when I didn't have anything to do.
I was just wandered through the bookstore and and like like, so I want
to talk about my stuff, you know, well, I think it's definitely
great. As we add more facets to the comp So one of the things
that we had last year was a gaming room, and the gaming room was
awesome. The gaming room was awesome, but we I think we were still
figuring out how to utilize it. So one of the things we're going to
do this year is I'm asking the A and D casts, some of the
folks who volunteer to bring or suggest their favorite games, and we're going to
have them lead some sessions, some scheduled sessions in a game room. So
if you want to game with or around some of the cast members, they'll
be opportunities for that. And that's the sort of thing we couldn't have done
in the days when we were all having to sit at our own tables,
Like it really lets us kind of spread ourselves out and more. If you
show up and I'm in the game room, bring a knife because we're playing
chop poker, but not a poop knife. Now, there was the Tales
of Darkside episode years back where these these two gamblers who hated each other.
They're like, They're like, no, we're gonna play called chop poker,
and if you lose a hand, you lose a finger. Not not to
nitpick, but wouldn't have you lose a hand, You'll lose a hand.
Have made more sense. I would also missed the hand like poker hand.
I was just confused. If you lose an actual head, don't you lose
your Yeah? Whoa man. But if he said you lose the hand,
you lose the hand, would it have tracked immediately? Yeah? Maybe maybe
No, you know, you know, no, you know what I would
have thought. It was like, well, what happens happens fair enough,
That's that's a that's a reasonable interpretation. I hate when I play cards and
I end up getting amputated seventh time this has happened. Wait a minute,
Oh honestly, yeah, um, not doing a table is a little bit
of a lesson thing when I can figure it out. I'm I'm kind of
finding my con balance right now, but I don't always get tables. I've
actually dialed it back a bit in recent years. Usually if I'm attending a
con, it'll either be in a guest capacity or a situation like Dragon where
you're there's signings where you can sell, or it's a in D con and
we've got that things set up. I've really kind of stepped back from purchasing
tables at places, and I think a lot of that is just the old,
the post plague trepidation kind of manifesting. I haven't really done any cons
that I didn't get invited to or have an active handed planning. I haven't
been offensive is the way to go. I'm kind of the the opposite because
even though I like, I'm like, you know, socially awkward behind my
table and stuff, I actually like having the table because it kind of gives
me purpose there. So for example, I think it was like two years
ago, Bob and I were both at con Caroline Is and I had ordered
books and they didn't show up in time, so I gave Mike, I
gave my table away. I didn't have anything to sell, and it was
just nightmarish, just those like be like, okay, I have like one
one or two panels today, and the rest of the day, I'm like,
I guess I'll go hang out in my room, you know, or
I'll just wander author alley and occasionally to be like, so what's up?
And it was yeah, it was like like I kind of need that focus
otherwise otherwise I kind of just retreat to doing something else. So even though
even if I am horribly uncomfortable. Yeah, even if I'm horribly uncomfortable behind
that table, being having that table kind of gives me purpose because otherwise I'm
just gonna really not know what to do with myself. Yeah. I feel
that way so strongly that I wonder, what the hell are all these attendees
doing here? What are they enjoying that I'm missing here? Yeah? Yeah,
Like like I went to uh well, the less one I went to
was a phil con which is not too far. It was like an hour
away, and I had one panel there, and I figured, Okay,
I'll mak a day of it, you know, because my panel was in
the evening and I showed up early because I wanted to just experience a con
and that less it for about thirty minutes before I was just like, Okay,
I guess I'm gonna sit at find the table and sit here and play
phone games on my phone. Like. I even tried attending a few,
like, you know, a few panels and stuff, but it was just
like by the end of the day, I was just like, I don't
get it. Yeah, I don't like, I don't know that I would
show up to a conum without a table unless it was again like a crazy
one like Dragon where holy shit, the yeah cost on that would be bananas.
Um, I think I just more meant like I I haven't been reaching
out to cons. I've only been going to ones that have reached out to
me. And usually when they invite you as a guest, there's stuff for
you to do because they want to make the most of you. And I've
enjoyed that, and you know, usually that will include a little bit of
table time, but not again, you've got other commitments and stuff. And
yeah, I just the having done it that way. I don't know that
I'm going to start applying again. I I'm kind of okay with it going
like this right now. Oh so I have this thing speaking of tables that
I thought I'm thinking about trying, and a part of me is like this
is kind of sad to try, but like I'm curious. Nevertheless, So
there's there's a couple of shop there's a couple's a couple of supernow markets close
to me, and you know, you always have like the girls scout selling
cookies out there, and like you know, or the people like begging for
money as you're walking in trying to like just shop but I've noticed a couple
of them actually do have some like you know, some local businesses out there,
and they just set up a table and I'm like, I'm like,
okay, they're shade. The weather's getting nice. I'm like, I'm almost
tempted to be like, you know, I wouldn't mind setting up here and
just be like, hey, you know, help help out, Like you
know, hey, if you want to buy something from a local, local
author, you know, because at that point, I mean, it's not
like it would like be a difficult thing because it's like ten minutes away from
my home. Yeah, I thought you were going the other way. I
thought you were gonna like, yeah, go buy a loaf of bread at
the supermarket and trying to sell individual pieces of bread at your table at the
con. You're hungry, you're hungry, buy a book, get a piece
of bread. I mean, apply the same concept to a case of bud
light and suddenly, alright, liquor sells. Yeah, I mean I get
it. I think if it's if it's not too much trouble and you'll enjoy
the time there. There's a farmer's market in my town that just reopened,
and um, one of the people has a ten where they sell their books.
So it's like, yeah, whatever, it seems like a nice way
to spend a Saturday. We'll see. Also, the reason I would like
to do that is there's usually one person doing that. Like there's a flea
market close to my town, and every time I drive past it, I
look and I just shake my head because it's just packed, and I'm like,
I can't handle that. I was like, I absolutely cannot handle that.
Yeah, that would be ah, that would be a lot. And
flea markets are are their own kind of vibe. Yeah, like you better
reprice those about two hundred percent higher so you have room for the haggle down.
But yeah, I'm like I saw I saw that, and I was
like, why don't I just ask them? How much? Like, you
know, if I could just set up a table one day and just do
that, I don't know, I don't know if I will, it probably
won't, but it's just like it's just struck me as like a all right,
this would be relatively easy to do, relatively easy to set up,
and not really cost me any time or money other than an afternoon that I
probably would be doing nothing but mowing my lawn anyway, and if it gets
you out of in your lawn, that sounds like a double win. I'm
telling you, there is kind of that always that drive to be looking for
the next new avenue, like the next way to reach readers, because you
know, so much of this job's challenge is getting your work in front of
the people who would enjoy it. Oh yeah, and that job gets more
difficult every fucking day. Yeah. Yeah, it's a it's a wild one
out there, and now everybody is terrified about the AI aspects, which I'll
be honest, I don't even understand enough to know why I should be afraid
of. So that's that's not a great feel Like I think I understand enough.
And it really just comes down to it's difficult enough to get visibility on
Amazon right now, but imagine if every day there is just hundreds and hundred
of like you know, of shit robot generated books, um, you know,
pouring in word. It's just like at that point, it's just like
it's a fucking avalanche. Uh. You know, the church constantly trying to
shovel out from under, and I mean everybody can, like you know,
the Optimists of the world, they do like to say well, the cream
rises to the crop, or get the cream rises crop, the cream rises
top, and I'm like, not if not, if there's a whole much
of scum blocking the blocking the way, and I mean even the cream rises
at the top, it's it assumes that, uh, I guess a lot
of self selection in a time frame that there are so many fucking books out
there, so many books, so many even taking away aside the you know,
the actual monetary success of it. We write books because we want people
to enjoy reading them. I feel like that's a pretty general statement regarding writers.
And it's it's more heartening to get it to people who like them,
and so it's I don't know, it's discouraging when you're writing books, I
think, and you feel like you did a good thing, you're proud of
it, but it's not reaching the audience that you feel like would enjoy it.
Well, yeah, because there's a lot of marketers out there and there
you know, there's no joy in reading it. Basically, their their joy
is cashing the checks at the end of the day. And don't get me
wrong, there's nothing wrong with cashing a check, but you know, there's
there there comes a point when you have commoditized and gentrified the entire the entire
process, where at that point it's like, why don't actually get a job,
because you probably would work a lot less hard for more benefit. Yeah.
People trying to strike it rich through the Amazon Creation or Kendall Graces program
is always a little bizarre to me. I was like, there have to
be better uses of your time. Oh my god, it's all over fucking
TikTok. Like I can't. I can't literally, like you know, scroll
through my timeline without seeing everyday videos. It's like, you know, hey,
you know, buy my three thousand dollars course and I'll show you how
to make passive income without without even knowing how to write a book. You
know, you two can be an Amazon bestseller. And it's just like Jesus
fucking like, if I could reach out and just like you know, and
just do to these people what I would want to do, it would not
be kind. But then it's like but then it's like the people who fall
for this stuff, and it's like, Okay, do you really think you're
gonna make a lot of money by going to Wikipedia, copying a few things
and pasting it and saying, oh, look, at me. I'm a
published author, Like, I mean, what the fuck do you think if
it's gonna happen with that? I will. I will actually give people some
benefits of the doubt on this. I think we tend to forget because we've
been behind the curtain for so long. But if you haven't published a book
from the outside, this ship looks like alchemy, it's not. It's not
a thing that's ever been made very clear about process wise, unless you know
to go to trusted sources, Like I wrote a book about publishing that I
can stand behind, but that requires you to a know who I am and
be trust the shit I say. And also one of the first things I
say in this book is it's all given in good faith, but it could
also all be wrong for you. So um, Like, it's just there
is a level of mystery to writing I think as a career that has been
held up perpetually, and it's it's not the wisest decision to invest in those
schemes, Like if it sounds too good to be true, it is,
but I don't know. I give them a little bit of leeway just because
I don't know so much of this thing, this career sounds like fucking magic
anyway. No, you're you're You're not wrong. I like to, like
on my Facebook page, I like to do kind of behind the scenes post
like, oh, hey, this is how Kendal Unlimited works, this is
how this works, this is how other things work, and and people like
you know, do tend to be amazed like wow, I never would have
guessed that or so. So yeah, there's probably is some politity which to
what you're saying. So yeah, I'll reserve my ir for like, you
know, for the scumbags who were basically who're basically saying, oh, come
and buy my course. We're we're I'm going to teach out how to scam
the system. Yeah, the d bags doing the tricking are unquestionably fires in
that one. I don't know. I guess we'll we'll see how Amazon responds
if they do, I honestly can't imagine they will unless it affects their bottom
line somehow. That's yeah, how corporations were. Yeah, I mean,
like for anybody listening to this, like, you know, a good chunk
of my books, I'm actually pushing wide right now because you know, the
landscape with Kindle Unlimited is starting to look a lot less friendly. You know,
what I will say is right now, this actually could be an opportunity.
So we have talked ad nauseum about not loving Kindle Unlimited and kindle stranglehold
on the ebook market, but how we're hindered by the fact that there's no
real fucking competitor, like you're going wide. But at the end of the
day, like we all we know the market is the Amazon market right now.
We don't like it, but you know, denying it doesn't make it
not true. And if another ebook publisher was to come out and strongly like,
hey, we are putting in these protections to block AI content and like
took an aggressive no AI approach, that would be a differentiator from Amazon that
might genuinely draw in some talent possibly. I mean, the thing that Amazon
has always done that the others just refused to do is Amazon and they played
it down because it's really a paid play landscape. But the thing about Amazon
that originally set them apart was that recommendation engine. It's like, hey,
you read this, you might like this. And none of the rest of
them, not even Barnes and Noble, you know, they don't do this
this stuff it's basically, here's a listing, you know, and if your
stuff shows up, hey, that's great. And that's part of like,
you know, the thing I always hear from people saying, oh, well,
you know Cobo's great and Apple's great, and it's like, well,
I haven't really noticed them to be that great. Well, well, if
you reach out to their marketing managers. I don't want to reach out to
their marketing managers. I want to load this and I want to, like,
you know, I want to like you to do my own marketing.
I don't want to like you know, hob like you hob nob put somebody
and be like, please please put me in your your newsletter or something.
Do you think I fucking mastered having imaginary conversations on a page because I was
good at having real conversations people, and if I had the conversations with real
people that I have on my page, I would get punched out a lot.
Also, I regret the word mastered. As soon as I said,
I was like, that's presumptuous, but I was. I think I was
rick in that moment, so it's technically okay, I'll assume. I'll assume
that means you're you're you're now bald, old and uh and nearsighted. I
mean I I've been nearsighted from the beginning. I'm getting toward old and you're
halfway there. Yeah, my back is aching but not giving out yet.
I'm at the still before the precipice. Yeah. Yeah, like like like
there was actually and I don't I don't want to talk to turn this new
thing about publishing, but one of the big news that came out today was
that one of the paperback publishers out there, Ingram Spark, is like they're
dropping their fees, and a lot of people are like, hey, this
is a game change, and I'm like, is it really? I mean,
all they're basically doing is just dropping a feed that they never should have
had to begin with. Yeah. I haven't really used ingram Spark in a
while because of those fees. Once Amazon started offering hardbacks, I was like,
well, you can eat shit, kind of say. I kind of
like Amazon's hardbacks. I mean they're they they're fine. I think I don't.
I haven't actually had cause to use the um, but I had a
sample made. I like it's over there, but yeah, I like it.
I'll have to do that with an Next Villain's Code book. I think
I'm probably well, I don't know. I guess we'll see how Ingram is
now that they've dropped their fees and shit. But well, yeah, I
mean I've been on Ingram for a while there because I use Amazon to get
on an Amazon site, and I use Ingram get my paperbacks elsewhere. And
a lot of people are just like, oh, this is such a game
change. It's like, no, it's not all you know, They're all
this is just gonna do is just clog up their website with stuff. I
yeah, yeah, because Ingram is the way you can get your books in
bookstores. Correct. If a bookstore wants they will order it through Ingram.
I think that's why I have some listings through them. Yes, yes,
Ingram is is that. Yeah. It's kind of like the lotter Read where
it's like, yeah, it's like, okay, buy ticket, you might
win, you probably won't. But I think I've had a few go into
like small scale bookstores and stuff through Ingram. But yeah, it's not been
I mean, bookstores themselves are not really where I would build my house right
now to begin with. Well, also, here's the problem with bookstores is
that Ingram wants you to make your books returnable, and that in bookstores don't
want to buy it unless they're returnable. The problem is when you make your
books returnable, m Ingram doesn't pay for that. You get charged for that.
So Ingram prints it up. They sent you know, some Barnes and
Noble says, hey, send me, send me five hundred Drew Hayes books.
They send them that, and then they're like, yeah, we only
sold one, We're gonna send four ninety nine back. So one of two
things happens. Either they burn those books or they send those four hundred ninety
nine two Drew, and then they charge Drew for those four hundred ninety nine.
And that's one of the things that keeps a lot of people going,
fuck this noise because it's a shitty model that basically just funck sh up the
ass. Yeah, I mean, why why would we care enough to take
that risk for them? You know, I'd like, you know, I
have my website. I sell them direct there. You know, Therefore I
know people who are reaching out actually want it. Okay, So this we're
going down a rabbit hole publishing here. Well, you know, it's part
of conventions. There are publishing conventions. There are places where you can go
as a perspective author to meet editors and agents and all sorts of stuff.
I did not do those. I don't think any of us did. There's
a couple I would like to do, but I did do one, like
a couple of years backs. One industry convention. And those are good.
Those are good networking, like you know, opportunities. But that assumes you're
good at networking. And Bob said he's not, and I know I'm not.
I don't know that I'm bad, but it's not a thing I necessarily
seek out, say for specific situation situations. M Yeah, I don't really
do industry con I get asked sometimes why I don't go to a DFW Writer's
con, which is a great con. I know some folks who've done it
and have nothing to struck for it, but it seems to be a writer
focused con, and I'm that's not the things I turn out for. I
turn out for reader FOLKUS con because I'm there for my readers. Oh yeah,
I would love to go to the Nink convention. That's that happens yearly.
But there's two problems with that. Is that like, and it's a
writer convention. But I know a lot of the writers who are there who
would love to hang out with. But there's two problems. There is one
it's pretty pricey to go, and two it takes place in Florida, which
is a place I really don't want to go right now. Very reasonable,
but no, I'm kind of like you if if somebody if given a convince,
if given a choice between okay, you could do like a writer's convention
to do some networking, or go actually and hang out with the fans,
I'm always going to choose the fans on because that's just I mean, that's
why I write for Yeah, they're the ones who cared enough to come out
and see you. So that's yeah, some people I'm gonna give the energy
and time too. They're the ones who might buy my books. They very
they're the most likely to buy your books. All right, Do anybody have
any closing con tips as we as we wrap things up for this side quest?
Say, maybe one for the attendees and one for the guest slash vendors
for Kala which group was that? For? Okay, universal, it's a
general con tip, all right? So so two tips for the for the
writer's going to conventions, make a frigging checklist ahead of time. You know,
I'm talking not like five minutes before you leave. I'm talking like weeks
in advance, Like you know, make a checklist for the things you need
for people attending a con I do much better when I'm attending a convention if
I have a con buddy, if I have somebody there who, like you
know, who I can hang out with, UM, who kind of forces
me to be social, because if not, then once I wind up,
once I'm dumb with stuff to do, I'm gonna be like, Okay,
that table over there in the corner where nobody is at That's where I'm gonna
be sitting and hopefully nobody comes in looks at me. There. For attendees,
I will say comfortable shoes. Cannot say enough how important a comfortable set
of shoes are, because I, unlike the folks who are stuck at tables,
you're gonna be walking around a lot um for the vendor slash guests.
UM. I will give you one of the best tips I ever got from
John Hartness himself. Bring plastic bags, um and give them to people when
they buy your books. And then if you see people who have arms full
and need a bag, offer them a plastic bag. And that is an
easy segue into talking about your books. Um you mean like you mean like
the cary you mean carry bags, not just like here's here's a garbage bag.
Yeah, yeah, like like the like the like the plastic grocery store
bags. Like just um, all right, you can get a big thing
of like takeout thank you bags. That's what I use. Um. At
one point I even had like canvas ones made up. That was really in
doing cons at that point. Um. But yeah, that I have seen
him start so many sales by giving people a free bag, um, just
because they needed it. Jump across the table the guard. I mean that
would have been the bag size needed for that Romance convention. That that would
have been appropriate for the number of books that we're getting. That was god
damn impressive. Maybe we should maybe we should consider that for A and dcon
Get get trash bags made up? But with the Shingles logo on it,
well, that sounds like a segue to us getting stuffed inside trash bags.
Rick and I don't need to relive high school, all right, everybody,
I think that's gonna do it for this week's side quest. We will be
back next week with the Wine Down episode of Chronicles of Calamity. Until then,
bye bye, friends. Assis and Dragons brought to you with their Creative
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