WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:06.080 The Chili Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot com and listeners like you 2 00:00:06.679 --> 00:00:16.320 and now and now in our media pack fifth day of June twenty twenty four, 3 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.359 allegedly according to that thing we call a calendar. Now, just a 4 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:24.239 quick note before I get on with today's discussion, which is going to feature 5 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:30.160 Larryhancock Larry dash Handcock dot com or Larry Hyphenhancock dot com. Go there follow 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.200 his blog. Of course, I recommend every book he's got out, and 7 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.000 I'm looking forward to a book that is going to be very much focused on 8 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:42.719 tonight's topic as we get into par three of Oswald's adventure in Mexico City. 9 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:48.320 But anyway, before I go there, just really quick for everybody because this 10 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:54.960 week I've had to resend folders again for everybody's archives. The archives have been 11 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:58.159 delayed from the first of the month to now. Probably this weekend, I'll 12 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.600 send out all the archive folders to p that are signed up, that are 13 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.359 members at ocelly dot com, that are supporters, et cetera. The Weeni 14 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.959 dogs are getting acted behind me, my apologies, but they are in other 15 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:15.439 rooms that shrill bark cuts right through the walls. Sorry anyway, so those 16 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.000 folders will be going out to everyone, and if you're not on the list 17 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:23.599 and you think you should be, obviously, communicate with me blind JFK researcher 18 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.920 at gmail dot com or info at ocelli dot com and remind me that you're 19 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:30.680 supposed to be on that list. If you're not, don't do it four 20 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.640 months later because they don't have to send you all kinds of stuff. And 21 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:40.359 I'm sending two or three gigs worth of files every month so that you have 22 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:44.840 a chance to download and put them somewhere, get them out of your email 23 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.200 once a month, and this weekend we'll be sending them out once again, 24 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:52.799 so make sure you're on the list. And yes, the delay is because 25 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:56.599 I've had to resend because some people said they didn't get theirs, so let's 26 00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:00.760 make sure everybody's supposed to get them, and again communicate with me blind JFK 27 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:07.680 researcher at gmail dot com or info at O'Kelly dot com and let me know. 28 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.400 Hey, hey, blind guy, you missed me. I'll get to 29 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:14.879 you and I'll send you the stuff that you are entitled to. Okay, 30 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:17.159 whether you're a Patreon supporter, which there are very few of, you or 31 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:21.120 if you're signed up at the website, which there are even fewer of you. 32 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:24.000 But either way, I appreciate you and want to get you what you 33 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:30.159 deserve. All right. So Larry Hancock, again the author of Someone, 34 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:32.680 would have talked tipping point a few other books on that little thing we call 35 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.039 the jfk assassination, but we focused in the past two visits with Larry on 36 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:45.080 Oswald in Mexico City. So again part three, and now Larry, now 37 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.919 that we've gone through some of the you know, the initiation, if you 38 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:53.800 will, what kind of sort of happened, what was suggested? What did 39 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:55.759 the media tell us? What did the writers say about this? For some 40 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:00.280 years, you know, from the Warren Commission and to the Mark Lanes, 41 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:07.280 to the rest of the people out there who made observations about this and had 42 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:12.360 questions. Sure, and then even going into the HSCA briefly I talked about 43 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:16.120 it on one show that they had a lot more than one mystery Man photo 44 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:21.000 from Mexico City. You know, there was one or two that circulated up 45 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.840 until the mid seventies, and then I don't know, the HSCA had maybe 46 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:29.000 a dozen. Led me to ask, well, if there's this much, 47 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.960 then there must be more. Number one, number two? What else was 48 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:36.080 there? What does this mean for surveillance? By the way, this guy 49 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:40.599 does not look like Oswald? And oh, by the bye, his mother 50 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:46.159 had some things to say about this as well. When she saw the pictures. 51 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:50.080 She gave observations. But Larry, as per usual, I want you 52 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:54.080 to sort of tie all this together. And obviously this will be just part 53 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:59.520 of what's going to be in this book on Oswald that you're in the process 54 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.759 of editing right now, and I can't wait to see it. But anyway, 55 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:08.120 Larry, where should we pick up from considering the other two episodes? 56 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.280 And before we even go there, how are you doing tonight? Oh? 57 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:16.240 I'm doing okay, Chuck. It's summer here in Oklahoma. I always enjoy 58 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:23.519 that. So now we've had some marine and I'm feeling pretty good some rain 59 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:27.240 and feeling good in Oklahoma, and your internet's working pretty good. So you 60 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:31.680 know what blessings we need to count? So where do we start? I 61 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:35.639 think? Yeah? One of the important things to remember is that a lot 62 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:40.240 of what we talk about today, a lot of the discussion the mystery, 63 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:48.639 the enigma of Mexico City, came to be long after the assassination. It 64 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:57.879 certainly went basically before the assassination, Lee Harvey Oswell showed up. He went 65 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:03.399 to the Cuban consulate, went to the Russians, and essentially Oswald approached them 66 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:09.040 about doing something pretty straightforward, the same, the same sort of thing he 67 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:13.000 had been talking to the Russians about all year long and his wife had been 68 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:16.360 writing about, and basically went to them both and said, hey, my 69 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:20.759 my wife supplied for permission to go back to Russia and the families going back 70 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:26.000 to Russia, and you know, it's all it's all good, But you 71 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:28.879 know, I'm really you know, I like Cuba. I'd like, well, 72 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.120 this is happening, and while it's come together, it would be easier 73 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.519 for me to make this happen by getting a transit visit and being in Cuba. 74 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:41.480 And and that's that's the way it was. Uh. The the mystery 75 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:48.680 came about really because in the first calls that were intercepted by the CIA about 76 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:54.800 this American wanting to go to Cuba, they didn't know he was, which 77 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:59.560 which is I think kind of interesting because the paper trail very clearly says, 78 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.480 oh, there's an American trying to do this. He's talking to Cubans. 79 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:09.240 Looks like he's talked to the Russians, and the station chief says, find 80 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.839 out who he is. Well, right now, the CIA, hold on 81 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:15.279 a second, because, look, the Cubans don't know who he is. 82 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:18.199 Fair enough, because maybe they didn't pay attention to the news clippings on the 83 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:23.759 fair Play for Cuba committee and the attention he got over the summer. Maybe 84 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:28.199 they missed that. Okay, maybe I don't think so, because they had 85 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.480 various assets, you know that they should have been aware of that he interacted 86 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:34.759 with. But let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the Cubans 87 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:40.879 don't know who he is. The Soviets should know who he is. The 88 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:45.959 CIA does know who he is, regardless of their claims. Now, the 89 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.279 funny thing to me, they don't know at the point I'm talking about. 90 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:53.759 Yeah, he goes to the Russians and tells them who he is. They 91 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:57.800 contact their New York City embassy, They know who he is, and they 92 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.879 essentially verify a story. Yeah, I've been applying for permissions. She's got 93 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:06.040 papers in being processed in Moscow. It's going to take some money. So 94 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:12.399 there's the Russians know who he is. The Cubans really don't care because until 95 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.879 the Russians say, yeah, uh, he's going to Russian his family, 96 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.360 the Cubans just he doesn't pass the sniff test, you know, it's like, 97 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:26.079 okay, so the Cubans don't really care. The Russians know he is. 98 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.319 The CIA, it's very clear from all the All that we know is 99 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:38.639 until like the fourth day that he's in Mexico City where call is actually made 100 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:44.160 to the Russian embassy and he gives his name. They're still we're still frantically 101 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:47.879 trying to find out who this American was. Okay, but some parts of 102 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:51.519 the CIA know who he is though, because files have already generated. I'm 103 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:56.839 talking about just Mexico City station. Oh yeah, you go to JAM wave 104 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.759 in Miami, you go to Angleton's office. Oh yeah, I'm with you. 105 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.040 Yeah, they know who he is, is what I'm saying. So 106 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.319 you know, when Scott, let's go to win Scott real quick, because 107 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:11.399 he's the station chief, right he would if he has no idea who Oswald 108 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:16.000 is at that moment, is going to be what reaching out to the people 109 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:22.160 in Washington, the people at JM wave or elsewhere, right, and say, 110 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:24.319 hey, who the hell is this guy? What is going on? 111 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.920 Do you have something on him that I can use to decipher what's happening here? 112 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.360 Would that or is that too elementary of a thought problem? And that's 113 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:39.360 exactly what happened. Okay. Now by that time, this when Oswell's name 114 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.639 surfaced on an intercept on a call to the Russian embassy, and Oswell's name 115 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:52.039 sar First and Oswald he had mentioned interesting thing. This call has Oswald using 116 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:58.240 his name, telling the Russians he had been to their embassy and he had 117 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.919 talked to a council and he's talking to another council diplomatic staff at the embassy. 118 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.039 And and the Russians know because the Russians say, oh, yeah, 119 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:11.960 the guy you met with was Consul Coostakov. So the Russians come forward with 120 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.240 the name Costacoufs. But on that Tuesday, Yeah, the Mexico City Fation 121 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:22.240 finds out and and Mexico then Query's headquarters and says, you know who is 122 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.759 this guy? Send us information on this guy. Uh. Mexico City c 123 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:33.840 i A tells the local FBI representative, Uh, you know, this guy 124 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.679 oz Will has been here, He's talked with this Russian Costakov the right, 125 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:43.120 the FBI guy starts telling his own chain of command. He writes a letter 126 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:50.039 directly to Hoover saying this guy Oz was so you're exactly right. Everybody starts, 127 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:56.559 now you're interesting, everybody this information and asking for Scott. Mexico City 128 00:09:56.639 --> 00:10:00.639 says, send us what you got on this guy. We're we're into right 129 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.000 now. That's just normal procedure. Now. The other thing is that either 130 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.440 in written form or in the phone call, and I forget which comes first 131 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:13.240 here. Okay, uh, he says that he met with Comrade Kostin or 132 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.519 something like that. It's a minor, minor mistake I think on the guys. 133 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.200 He does not. He actually does not say that. That comes up 134 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.600 in a letter that he writes once he's back in Dallas. Okay, okay, 135 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.279 it doesn't good. I'm glad you're straight right here. It is he 136 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:33.039 maybe doesn't remember the name perfectly whatever, but yeah, he does use that 137 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.799 name later, but it's like in November, it's not in October. So 138 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.360 okay. So this is Allalla is very important because people that talk about Mexico 139 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:50.399 City often talk about it as if that that name was planted somehow, right, 140 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.480 but it's very clear that it is the Russians themselves who produced the name 141 00:10:54.600 --> 00:11:01.120 Costakov. That's on the intercept. The translates kind of like the Russian speaker 142 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:03.919 came back and said, oh, yeah, you met with Costakov. Now 143 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:09.039 where does it first emerge, because this becomes important for a couple different reasons. 144 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:13.919 In nineteen sixty four, Right, Mark Lane has now been in contact 145 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:20.960 with Marguerite Oswald, and he's supposed to go to the Warren Commission and try 146 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.919 and represent Oswald's interests. They tell him no, but they get him to 147 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.879 testify. Anyway, this kind of thing goes on. Let's not get sidetracked 148 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.639 by it, but let's examine a couple things that have to do with Mexico 149 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.080 City regarding this, because at some point here in that process, Marguerite Oswald 150 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:41.559 gets to see a photo of the mystery man and she makes a comment and 151 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:45.080 then Lean, Now, I don't remember if it was during his time in 152 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:48.840 New York then he first made these statements, or if it was during some 153 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.480 of the public statements, and even the testimony which is recorded out there by 154 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.200 the way, you can find it online. Mark Lane's reading of his own 155 00:11:56.200 --> 00:12:01.919 testimony to the Warren Commission, if you want, but where they say, 156 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.639 look, you know what, there's this incident here, this goes on. 157 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.759 Marguerite makes her comments, like I said, but either Lane or somebody else 158 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:18.000 attaches something to Comrade Costin and later on properly identified as Costakov, that this 159 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.399 guy's part of Section five, which is assassination and terrorism, and blah blah 160 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.799 blah. You know, when does that come into play? Because that almost 161 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.039 sounds like maybe maybe the Russians had something to do with this, folks. 162 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.360 You know the weird idea that we got sold on that History Channel special from 163 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:37.559 the former CIA guy a couple of years back, right, that possibly he 164 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:43.919 was a Russian agent. That's has never really come into play. I think 165 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:50.000 it's again important to it's not that there's anything secret about Oswald or Oswald meeting 166 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:58.679 with Costa Colling right before the assassination agent Hasty has been notified actually hosting, 167 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.039 not all the years that threw is chain of command. Here's it from an 168 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:07.840 I N S type, because different agencies are being copied on this. Once 169 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:13.360 Mexico City communicated it to CIA headquarters, they communed it locally to the FBI 170 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.360 guy who does his own chain of command. A letter goes out to several 171 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:24.480 agencies, the Navy, I n s this guy has been in Mexico City. 172 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:30.840 It's Oswald, And today people know Oswald has been in Mexico City. 173 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.879 The people in Dallas know he's been in touch with this guy named Costakov, 174 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:41.279 and Costakov at that point in five is again no shock. Costakov is already 175 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:46.519 on file as being a guy who runs agents inside the US. Now for 176 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.919 pulous fascinations, some of that stuff is pretty wild, but Costakov is on 177 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:58.200 record having been in contact with and run Russian agents working inside the US. 178 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.840 Right. Now, here's the thing for listeners, right is I'm constantly trying 179 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:07.279 to pull this away from the chronology so that Larry pulls it back because that's 180 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.679 what happened in the literature. Here is that what I'm doing is what people 181 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:18.879 started parroting and repeating as if it was the proper timeline of events, and 182 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.360 Larry keeps pulling it back to No, this is the order in which things 183 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:28.399 actually happen. That's important. So listen to Larry's timeline, not mine. 184 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.039 I'm trying to challenge it, Okay, Yeah, and I'm wrong, I 185 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.240 just I know I'm right on there with the picture too, because and quite 186 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:39.399 frankly, if I had not taken a many many months dive back into this, 187 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.759 you know, I had some of the same reaction you did. People 188 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.960 have written about this in different ways and they didn't have it in the timeline. 189 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:52.519 But for example, the photo that you're talking about, right, that 190 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:58.519 photo, you know, before the assassination. This is just kind of state 191 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:03.879 standard day job for anybody. The only thing that's mysterious about all this before 192 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:11.000 the assassination is when Mexico City Station asks for information on Oswald. As it 193 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:16.799 turns out, Oswald's file is being held is to a one file. It's 194 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.519 general file is being held in the Office of counter Intelligence and has been there 195 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:26.919 ever since oswead went to Russia. Okay, so they're kind of controlling this. 196 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:35.840 The information about Oswald and the Cubans in New Orleans and the fair play 197 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:39.879 is in a separate file. It's in the FPCC file. But the thing 198 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:48.080 is that nothing about Oswald in Cuba, nothing nothing about Oswald in nineteen sixty 199 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:52.639 three is sent back to Mexico City. Okay, so what is the real 200 00:15:52.240 --> 00:16:00.720 That's a real flashing sign, as Morley Newman would would learn later that Oswald 201 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:04.360 the only reason that would happen, the only reason information would be held back 202 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:11.000 from Mexico City. And frankly, the most recent information they're given is that, 203 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.840 oh, by the way, Oswald and his wife may be returning to 204 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.679 the US from the Soviet Union, right Like, that's a year old. 205 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:23.759 Okay, So what you're telling me is that, let's imagine a world for 206 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:29.559 a moment where the assassination doesn't happen. Oswald's not tied to it in any 207 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.120 way, shape or form. You likely have a situation where they tell Mexico 208 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.840 City, look, this is a guy who went to Russia and he came 209 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.440 back and we got a little bit of an eye on him, but no 210 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:41.840 big deal, don't worry about it. He's probably trying to do it again. 211 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:47.039 End a story, and it would have never gone anywhere, probably because 212 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:51.279 they wouldn't have even informed when Scott about what was going on, because counterintelligence 213 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.360 wasn't willing to share that. And also the fpc SE thing, Well, 214 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:57.799 it's incidental, but it's not really something that they need to know in Mexico 215 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:03.160 City necessarily. Or am I incorrect about this? No? The lady that 216 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:08.920 Newman and Morley interviewed who was handled that file. She wasn't in charge of 217 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.200 it, she just handled it. Was was very clear that you know, 218 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:18.920 you would withhold that kind of information if somebody had an operational interest in Oswald 219 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.920 for some purpose. You know, that's why they were compartment. So I 220 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.920 would suspect if the assassination had never happened, somebody might have, you know, 221 00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:33.039 continued with an operation. They might have done something with Oswald. They 222 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.559 might have done some propand about it, whatever it was, and the FBI, 223 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:45.079 which the FBI had already started, I think we we we fail again 224 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:49.279 to recognize it's not like the FBI was ignoring Oswald in Dallas. They had 225 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:55.759 done a pretext call to find out where he worked. Uh, they had 226 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.920 done a visit to where his wife was staying. They were they were trying 227 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:04.400 to locate which apartment he was actually in. So they were doing follow up 228 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:10.039 after Mexico City, as they rightly should have, because it's kind of like, 229 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.519 you know, we need to put this guy under some level of surveillance 230 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:18.319 to see if maybe he is in touch with a Soviet handler. Yeah, 231 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.480 but Mexico City, right, So, But according to Hosty Okay, from 232 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.359 what I understand, all right, and maybe I'm wrong again about this, 233 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:30.319 but according to Hosty, he's still trying to chase him down. He doesn't 234 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.279 have the most up to date information. He's gone to a place or two 235 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:37.599 where Oswald was what is no longer right, And he does track down Marina 236 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:42.640 eventually, which leads to Oswald getting irritated and making those statements later about how 237 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:48.200 an FBI agent's harassing my wife or this or that. Right, yeah, 238 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.759 he actually writes a he writes a letter I went first of all, he 239 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:57.480 delivers a note to the local FBI office. But in this same letter, 240 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.279 where he mentions Coz that you brought up before, he actually asserts to the 241 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:08.599 Russians that the FBI is trying to persuade Marina to defect. And it The 242 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:15.920 interesting part of all of this is, again we tend to like treat this 243 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.920 as, oh, well, there's something mysterious about this, because nobody was 244 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:25.200 interested in Noswell. Wellste was certainly interested in Oswell. In fact, there 245 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:33.119 was so much interest in Oswald that the FBI became conflicted because it actually makes 246 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.480 a better story that you know, you know you're stupid, that then you 247 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:42.160 failed, and that's when the FBI actually went out and took a page out 248 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:49.240 of Oswell's notebook and replaced it with another page to eliminate Hosty's visit to the 249 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:56.160 Pains and Marina, because they that's why the letter to the FBI got destroyed. 250 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.680 It's like, it's better that they think we're stupid than and we realized 251 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.559 that we're all over this guy and then he shot the president right, better 252 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:08.599 that we didn't know that he existed or that we hadn't gotten to follow up 253 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.519 on him yet than we did follow up and missed the mark. Basically, 254 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.720 Yeah, so exactly, that's what the bottom line is. And this leads 255 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:21.480 to Hoover making that note, because Hoover's making inquiries at this point, right 256 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.279 what is happening here? And even he makes a note in the margin that 257 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:30.559 says he thinks he got snowed by the people from the CIA something like that 258 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.960 right at the time, and we now know again it was We thought it 259 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.519 was mysterious for a long time, but we know. On the day of 260 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:45.200 the assassination, Hoover pulls files on Oswald at headquarters and Hoover makes the remark 261 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.480 that, well, we know he was trying to go to Cuba. He 262 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:49.759 might have gone to Cuba. We don't know what he was trying. You 263 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:56.240 know, they are aware of Oswald at headquarters, and that's kind of embarrassing 264 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:59.160 too, right, you know, you don't want to see you know, 265 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.960 BI blows it. So there, Oswald was not a mystery to the FBI. 266 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.079 The CIA was trying to make him one to a certain extent, but 267 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:15.039 he was not an unknown collector. And as I say, the FBI legat 268 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:22.359 in Mexico City, who was the FBI station guy, was communicating directly with 269 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:27.720 FBI headquarters with this information he'd gotten from the local office. So up until 270 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.880 the night of the assassination, it's kind of like everybody was doing their day 271 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.880 job. You know, CI was hiding information about him because maybe they were 272 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.200 thinking about doing something with you know, what had happened in New Orleans, 273 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:48.160 which is what they were shielding quite frankly. And of course the FBI knew 274 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:53.200 about Oswald and New Orleans. He volunteered information to like a lot of people 275 00:21:53.319 --> 00:22:00.920 knew about Oswald, and suddenly nobody would want to talk about it, like, 276 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.680 oh, did you know this guy? So suddenly this remark of hosty 277 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.200 to the Secret Service guy and the Dallas police about oh, well we were, 278 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.799 we were aware of OZI. Well, but it was a national security 279 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.559 thing, so we don't share that kind of is no longer mysterious, right, 280 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.160 yeah, yes, they were right, And then it makes sense for 281 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:25.880 them to send in another guy to take notes. So they send in, 282 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:30.440 you know, the guy from the post office who is also functioning as an 283 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.599 FBI, an agent of the FBI, not necessarily an FBI agent, but 284 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:40.440 an agent working on behalf of the FBI, as many postal employees can and 285 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:42.039 still do to this day. By the way, in case you don't know 286 00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:48.519 that, uh, your post office could actually be utilized as a collection point 287 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:53.200 for information and other things for the FBI. They were actually identified as T 288 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.000 you know, there's a T one T two. It's kind of like our 289 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.640 source where you really don't want to say, will the post office? Right? 290 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.039 Right? But but but we now know what that means kind of and 291 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.039 so I'm just I'm just pointing out the succession of events here. Okay, 292 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:15.680 So now let's reintegrate the assassination comes into play this change. Night of the 293 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:22.920 assassination, the next critical thing happens that will drive us nuts forever. Okay, 294 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:26.839 now, but here's the change, right, This is a significant change. 295 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.920 Again. If there was no assassination, no connection to Oswald in any 296 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.519 way, shape or form, we might be looking at a completely different record, 297 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.160 or never have looked at this record at all, because it wouldn't be 298 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:40.559 all that important. It would be part of the fun and games that went 299 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.559 on with the FPCC. It would be part of CIA training and UH information 300 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.559 gathering and et cetera, and it would be nothing that anybody would even bother 301 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:56.279 too mull over. Okay, but the assassination happens, Oswald's connected to it. 302 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.279 You know, Hoover is supposed to have all the answers. When Johnson 303 00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:04.839 calls him and he pretends to it sounds like to me on the phone call, 304 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.839 now we got this already. You know, the guy he made the 305 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.400 shooting from the fifth floor. He's got the floor wrong. But it's okay, 306 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:12.960 you know, because he's got the Gimberling report already in his hand. 307 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:18.000 I think. Okay, So he's got you know, three hundred pages in 308 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:22.480 his hand already of stuff collected by various people on the ground. People went 309 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:26.359 to work that weekend to try and get all that information and then he's killed 310 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:29.759 on Sunday, So you know, we got to wrap this up. Now. 311 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:33.160 Now we got a dead suspect, We're never going to court. The 312 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:36.640 evidence has been collected, shipped to DC allegedly, you know, it gets 313 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.640 shipped back to Dallas, and you can go over all the difficulties with that, 314 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:45.559 but that's a story for another day. This changes how Mexico City is 315 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.599 now handled. Now there's more questions. And one of the weirdest things again 316 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:56.359 is that sometime between sixty three and late sixty four, Marguerite Oswald gets shown 317 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:02.279 the mystery man photo. Want to try and tie these things together and tell 318 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:07.400 us where it weapons actually in November twenty third, so what really happens? 319 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.839 And this is I will say that we totally understand, well, we know 320 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:15.680 part of what happened. We know of course, everybody's in a panic and 321 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:22.920 everybody is now if they were interested about Costakov and Oswald, it's now everybody 322 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:26.839 is totally panicked about, you know, this meeting in Mexico City. So 323 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:32.960 Mexico City is like goes into panic mode. Let's pull what we've got in 324 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.960 the files. We'll send it up to Dallas, they can, you know, 325 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.960 we need to give them what we've got. Recently, we found a 326 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:47.720 very interesting note that essentially says the lady that handled the file that contained the 327 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:53.519 mystery Man picture had written an internal memo and actually told several people that that 328 00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:59.279 picture should not be sent because they did not have total confidence that that was 329 00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:04.480 Oswald. But the picture was sn't and it was not Oswald. And as 330 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.319 soon as it got to Dallas, and everybody looked around and said, that's 331 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:14.720 not Oswald. Oswald. Somebody is impersonating Oswald in Mexico City. We have 332 00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.680 no idea what's going on. This is a disaster, and so and and 333 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:26.240 other things happen with the tape recording that it turns out not to be Oswald. 334 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:32.359 Long long story there. But by Saturday morning, Hoover is telling Johnson 335 00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:37.119 that we got a real problem because, uh, you know, what we're 336 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.799 getting from Mexico City does not match Lee Harvey Oswald. So this could be 337 00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:45.799 you know, maybe the Russian He didn't say this, Maybe the Russians are 338 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:52.759 you know, maybe he's Obviously that's very worrisome. And that's as of Saturday 339 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:59.960 morning. So sending that photograph up, which this lady advised not doing prove 340 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.880 to be a major disaster because it immediately made everybody think that there might be 341 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:11.480 a conspiracy or something's in play. You know, if you kind of when 342 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.480 you think about it, it's sort of like, wouldn't it have been more 343 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:21.640 suspicious if it was Oswalt meeting with Costapaov. Now we got somebody meeting with 344 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:26.640 Costapov who is not Oswald. You know, if you want to frame Oswald 345 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.400 and frame the Russians and the Cubans, it'd be better at the photo event 346 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.680 of Oswald thinked about that. But so and it is that photo that an 347 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:44.079 FBI agent takes because and chows to Marguerite as you're talking about, and there 348 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:48.440 is some resemblance to Jack Ruby, and it gets into this whole dialogue about 349 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.920 was that Jack Ruby? Was it not Jack Ruby? And that gets into 350 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.279 up until that point, if the FBI had not owner that photo and it 351 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:06.039 became a matter of record, this probably could have all been behind closed doors, 352 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:11.119 like Okay, stupid CIA sent us the wrong photo. Now it's a 353 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:14.880 matter of the interviews on the record, people are going to ask questions about 354 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:21.640 the photo. The photo ends up being in Volume sixteen of the volumes that 355 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:26.119 go out with the Warrant Commission report. Because of that, and as we 356 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:30.880 were talking about earlier, just to show you how nuts the CIA is about 357 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:40.240 everything about Mexico City. They know that if you print that photos raised the 358 00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:45.319 obvious question is you know this was thought to be hostible going into the Russian 359 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.440 embassy. How'd you get the photo? I mean you raise all sorts of 360 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:53.799 questions. I mean, you have Americans under surveillance in Mexico City, you 361 00:28:53.799 --> 00:29:00.279 have Russians under surveillance in Mexico City. They they had to appeal this all 362 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:04.240 the way up to Alan Dulles on the Warrant Commission so that when that photo 363 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:08.119 was published in the volumes, it's cropped to be just the outline of this 364 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.119 person. Well, because it's not just about the people that are surveilling, 365 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:17.119 but what about the locations are you know? And there is your big difficulty 366 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.960 because once you let that cat out of the bag, it's not that you 367 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:23.240 know, anybody would be fool enough to think that there's no surveillance on, 368 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:29.079 you know, something that is in close proximity to the continental US and it's 369 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.799 not like our you know, adversaries one way or another, however you want 370 00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.359 to count them, and even our allies would not be aware that we would 371 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.119 have interest in people and the goings on at you know, facilities near us 372 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:47.079 like that. Uh, but now it's proof right that. Look obviously, 373 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:49.720 yeah, the photo is bad. The tapes are even worse. Well, 374 00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.839 right, because somebody is going to say, so, how did you have 375 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:59.440 a tape of Oswald talking to the Russians? Right, especially if you answer 376 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.200 that question and you don't really want to say, well, it's because the 377 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.880 Mexican president lets us tape all these calls and we give them copy. Yeah, 378 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.319 because now they really don't want to say that, because now that gives 379 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:14.000 a heads up to anybody and everybody who's in Mexico. Basically, listen, 380 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:18.839 we got a backdoor here which is absolutely supported by the Mexican government that allows 381 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.759 us to guess what, tap all of your phones. So if you're making 382 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:26.359 a phone call in Mexico, expect us to hear it. That's not something 383 00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.480 you want to advertay, just in case anybody says that the wrong thing. 384 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:36.240 It would also come out that the Mexican president was allowing the CI to tape 385 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:44.160 his political rivals and other Latin American embassies and diplomatic officers. It's kind of 386 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.799 like once you open that door, it's like it gets worse. Never know 387 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.759 how bad it's going to get, and it gets worse because the more you 388 00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:56.440 go with it. Right again, now it involves the Mexican president. Who 389 00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.480 else is involved? Is it their entire security? How about the local police? 390 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.599 Does that mean that the phone companies are in on this because you know, 391 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.440 I imagine they had phone companies in Mexico. I'm just saying this means, 392 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:12.920 you know, who is colluding with this information collection? How unsafe is 393 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:18.519 our communications in places that we might have thought had a chance at being secured. 394 00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.319 How deep does it go? Does that mean that our encode of telex's 395 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:26.079 are all being read too? Does that mean that everything that happens are we 396 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.039 being surveilled by parabolic microphones? We don't know now right? Yeah, And 397 00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:36.920 the answer is yes. So yeah, So of course everybody does get They 398 00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:42.200 get upset for many reasons. So initially they're upset because they think something really 399 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.000 mysterious is going on, and then they realize that they're not getting you know, 400 00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:51.680 they don't have the right photograph. Somebody made a mistake with the photograph. 401 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:57.440 The CIA never really explains how the mistake was made. CIA never explains 402 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.759 anything, right, for reasons that we just talked about it, because if 403 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.359 you explain it, you have to share details that you don't want to have 404 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.559 on record. But by that, you know, by that weekend, by 405 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:14.799 by Saturday, you know, this is a flap about this this mystery man 406 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:19.759 and the possibility of impersonation of Mexico City, and that will kind of enter 407 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:27.920 the record, you know, and over time become a major deal of oh 408 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:32.559 oswad was impersonated in Mexico City, coused to call poison pills. It will 409 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:37.039 just generate a lot of different scenarios. And when does his mother that started 410 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.880 out fairly simply, right, And when does his mother come out with public 411 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:46.559 statements regarding this photograph allegedly of her now dead son. I think that is 412 00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:52.000 a year later. Certainly it's after she starts talking to Mark Lane, right, 413 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:57.039 So that's that's not immediate at all. And this is I think it's 414 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.960 important to realize that this kind of all settles down, you know, within 415 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.200 by that Sunday, it's like, Okay, somebody has talked to somebody else. 416 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:14.920 It's not the hot topic that it was. But by the following Tuesday, 417 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.400 a totally new thing appears that worries everybody to death. And this is 418 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:24.720 coming out of the Mexico City CIA station, and it's the Gilberto Alverado story, 419 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:31.519 which is a much more sensational story of a CIA source that saw Oswell 420 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:37.839 being paid in the Cuban consulate to kill JFK. Right, if everybody was 421 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:45.319 a little worried about an impersonation, you can just imagine what this Alverado story 422 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:52.319 does well, especially because look, if there's an impersonation and there's Oswald literally 423 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.559 getting paid, or is it the Oswald impersonator getting paid? This gets crazy. 424 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:00.400 And remember the warrant commission was not released. The single volume was not 425 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.839 released until September sixty four, and I don't mid the volumes followed a little 426 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:07.719 bit later. They didn't come out that day that they did, you know, 427 00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:12.280 the big announcement on TV and you know the one hour and then there 428 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:15.400 was an hour later, you know, during the live show. Now it's 429 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:20.079 officially public and Walter Kronkite's going to tell you how correct it is already because 430 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.679 we had advanced copies. But you know that happens on TV in September. 431 00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:28.719 A couple some weeks later, and I don't remember how many immediately, but 432 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.679 some weeks later the volumes come out, and now that picture can be viewed 433 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:37.159 by anybody, and the question remains still, you know, is this a 434 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:44.280 matter of CIA in competence or is this an intentional switch to keep people off 435 00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:49.199 of the trail, And if so, why is it again an attempt to 436 00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.960 cover up? Look, we weren't ignorant, We just had the wrong photo. 437 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.639 We were aware of the guy but didn't take him seriously as a threat. 438 00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:59.519 Besides that, it looks a lot like Alex Carris. We were looking 439 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.440 for him, you know, from Webster, the TV show Webster. I 440 00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:06.880 kid you not take a look at that, and then go ahead and google 441 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.039 the guy who was on the TV show Webster, who's like the stepdad to 442 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:13.760 the little kid. Go ahead and look at it looks a lot like Alex 443 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:15.920 Carras at least a lot more than it does like Lee Harvey Oswald. Anyway, 444 00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:20.519 the thing is, how do you get from there to there? All 445 00:35:20.599 --> 00:35:23.159 right? And she makes a statement that makes it even weirder, So his 446 00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:25.559 own mother goes, you know, first of all, that's not my son, 447 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.400 but she makes it weirder. And that happens much later, and other 448 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:36.320 people started to speculate about this, which almost makes it worse because now there's 449 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.920 a whole lot more open questions and it seems like nobody wants to give sensible 450 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:45.159 answers to it. Right, what happened? What happened? Now? The 451 00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:47.679 deep research that people wind up doing later, you know, the Morley's and 452 00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:54.079 the Newman's and the individual who I can't remember exactly who it was that first 453 00:35:54.559 --> 00:36:01.239 somehow obtained a copy of when Scott's you know, biography, autobiography that was 454 00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:07.480 never meant to be released. But either way, right, information is distributed 455 00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:13.599 over the decades later, and frankly, to me, those questions remain unanswered. 456 00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:15.920 But what can we say about this? And again there is a big 457 00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:22.159 difference between before the assassination, that time period, you know, after Mexico 458 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:29.000 City happens, the assassination hasn't happened, and then the cleanup in Cya events 459 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:35.960 that occur ever after post assassination. So what can we take away from all 460 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.400 this? And quite frankly, to give you the totally unfair question, Larry, 461 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:43.719 what does all this mean, well, I think the first part what 462 00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:49.679 we can take away is very little of what we're just talking about had anything 463 00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:58.039 to do with Lee Harvey Oswald. Even under the most you know, sensational 464 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:04.159 scenario, it's not even a right Oswald is somewhere else. This has nothing 465 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.840 to do with Oswald. Now, the fact that this person does have all 466 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:14.679 the materials personal materials that Oswa would have collected from New Orleans letters, Okay, 467 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.599 he has all that and he's doing exactly what you would expect Oswald to 468 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:22.440 do. So maybe it's an impersonator. But you start going off the rails 469 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.679 with this scenario. It's sort of like, well, okay, in this 470 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.679 scenario. You know, in one scenario, it's Lee R. V. 471 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:37.239 Oswald and he's doing what he's always been doing. He's a CIA asset, 472 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:42.840 and he's on some sort of intelligence mission against the Cubans and the Russians, 473 00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.920 even though he spends a total of maybe no more than forty five minutes with 474 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:51.800 them, you know, like, how much can you really accomplish? But 475 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:57.119 so it was him and he's on a mission, and whatever happened happened, 476 00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:04.719 or it's not him and it's impersonation. Uh, it's impersonation to frame the 477 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.159 Russian in the Cuban. So he's somewhere else, right, don't know where 478 00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:09.280 he is. We'll never know where he is, right, Well, let 479 00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:13.199 me pause you don't know, Yeah, let me pause you for a moment 480 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:16.440 to ask a serious question here that I think is never answered by anybody adequately. 481 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:21.519 All Right, in my mind, when I see what's done here, 482 00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:24.199 whether it's the phone calls, the visits, the dramatic, you know, 483 00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:28.559 dropping the uh. You know, I need this gun to protect myself and 484 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:30.559 the guy takes it and puts it in the drawer. You know, all 485 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:38.400 of these events are all rather brief. They are seemingly in my mind if 486 00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:43.480 you find them to be mission accomplished, and you're the person running this for 487 00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.519 whatever reason, it seems to me as though all that needed to be done 488 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:52.719 was that we needed to establish a presence. It needed to be noted, 489 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:59.400 It needed to be taken into account that this guy arrived, appeared, and 490 00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:05.800 acted out in these locations and also may follow up phone calls. Those things 491 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:09.920 needed to be on the record. They needed to not be ignored. Pay 492 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:15.559 attention. This guy's here, that's it. Mission accomplished by they don't seem 493 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:21.920 to be there to do anything complex or extensive. But it almost makes more 494 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:24.320 questions come up. Now, Okay, so they established that this guy's here. 495 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:30.440 Is this part of an operation that didn't get to go to full you 496 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.320 know, to accomplish all of its goals. Maybe this is just the opening 497 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.159 salvo, if you will, of something. Okay, establish his presence here 498 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:44.400 now stage two. Maybe they never got there because November twenty second came along. 499 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:50.239 You know, something might have happened in December around Christmas time, and 500 00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:53.000 maybe that was the plan. And now we have interruption here because this guy 501 00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:59.159 is now famous worldwide as the potential assassin and then oh, by the way, 502 00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:04.320 famous again because he's been killed on television. Hello world. We can't 503 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:08.320 use this guy for anything else done And the story and whether he was impersonated 504 00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:14.119 or it was him or it was a combination thereof his presence was established. 505 00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:17.079 What are your thoughts on the idea that this looks like the beginning of an 506 00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:22.400 operation that didn't I don't even know that it was, Like, it doesn't 507 00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:28.280 look like that to me, Chuck, because Oswald didn't. If it was 508 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:34.199 the beginning of an operation using Oswald for like say, propaganda purposes that would 509 00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.960 have occurred. He doesn't have to be witting nothing, nothing he did. 510 00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:44.079 You know, he does such minimal things. He doesn't do anything nearly as 511 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.679 serious as he did in New Orleans. You know, this is this is 512 00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:53.920 kind of mild compared to his street leafleting and protesting and writing and going to 513 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:59.039 the FBI about So this is kind of mild stuff. So what you're saying 514 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:02.280 is the other use it. So I certainly will say that there could have 515 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:07.599 been as I said, there could have been a assass you know, special 516 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:13.599 affairs operation going on with Oswald or planned to go on with Oswald. Sure 517 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.960 that will never know. Well, but see, but that's why I asked 518 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.440 that question. That's what they really told us. But withholding that information right, 519 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:25.840 they were thinking about doing something around Oswald that never happened because of the 520 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:30.440 assassination. So there might have been more to come, but it hadn't already 521 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.880 been planned and if they were going to utilize them to do something effective. 522 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.039 See, here's the thing. Some people bring it up like they had to 523 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:39.360 establish Oswald. It's because they had They had to, you know, they 524 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:44.880 had to have him impersonated. Here again, just like he was impersonated as 525 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:49.119 a car dealership and blah blah blahlah. Okay, but the problem is that 526 00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:53.000 there were much wider ways for him to get attention, and there were much 527 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:58.000 more productive ways to spread if he was, you know, an agent of 528 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.320 propaganda, if he was meant to go out there and get it attention. 529 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.840 His appearance in New Orleans is a great example of that. He gets arrested 530 00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:08.440 for you know, a BS disturbing the peace thing and pleads guilty intentionally so 531 00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:13.639 that TV can cover him then invite him for a debate later. That is 532 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.920 a much more successful point. A lot more people will get exposed to this 533 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.719 guy, even if there is only an intended audience and you want just the 534 00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:24.760 local FBI office to pay attention to him. You got that, You got 535 00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:29.840 the general public involved. You have him, you know, publicly identified. 536 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:34.960 He's in newspapers now, he's been on television. So there's a much more 537 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.599 effective spread of information here as opposed to doing something there in Mexico City that 538 00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:50.039 would not be as advantageous for spreading something like a propaganda operation, a counterintelligence 539 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.639 thing where you're establishing that the fair play for Cuba committee is a much bigger 540 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:57.559 threat, which we do now know that was the thing. The FPCC, 541 00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.320 there was an operation underway to undermine it, to destroy, to go after 542 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:07.119 that and other left wing organizations by utilizing people sort of like Oswald right to 543 00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:13.480 infiltrate, go in and discredit, undermine things that were happening. That's really 544 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.079 going on, and there's much better ways to do that stuff. And his 545 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:23.800 FPCC adventure in New Orleans mostly but also leafleting in Texas are good ways to 546 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:28.960 get him introduced into that world. This thing in Mexico City doesn't quite line 547 00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.360 up with that, does it? And it doesn't really line up. Let's 548 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:37.400 say, let's take two scenarios that are often floated today. There's a group 549 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:42.679 within the CIA that really does want to frame the Cubans and Russians kill the 550 00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:47.360 president and we invade Cuba, right, that's okay, fine, Or we 551 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:53.119 really want to use this as a poison peel so that nobody wants to admit 552 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:58.559 knowing anything about Oswald and they're scared, and they're scared that it was. 553 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:07.400 In either of those scenarios, you really would want the real Oswald's picture. 554 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:13.360 You would really want the real Oswell on tape you would really want a backstory, 555 00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:17.039 you know, a good, solid backstory, not just oh, there's 556 00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:22.800 a phone call where the Russians themselves mentioned Costakov. You know, you're gonna 557 00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:29.519 want this Oswell impersonator or Oswald to be using the name say something much more 558 00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:36.639 incriminating. You're gonna want the real picture coming up, real tapes, or 559 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:40.280 you did just a really bad job of this. We see Mark Lan's you 560 00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:45.000 know, after action commentary about this where you know, as you said, 561 00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.559 it was printed in volume sixteen, the mystery Man photos that they cropped and 562 00:44:47.559 --> 00:44:52.280 all that deal is, though, if you got this guy meeting with communists 563 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:58.599 basically communist you know, legitimate assets of communist governments, and you can tie 564 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:00.440 them to this and that. And the third thing he said, why would 565 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:07.039 that not be on the inside cover of volume one or of the report itself. 566 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.480 If you had the real picture of Oswald And there's the baffler, right, 567 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:14.039 If they actually had Oswald coming out of that embassy, and then they 568 00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:16.360 could tie this whole story to him, there would be no reason in the 569 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:20.159 world not to put that out there, even if it was just to say, 570 00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.800 look, our enemies are still our enemies, and look at who was 571 00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:27.000 swimming with them. The guy who killed the president, whether they were actively 572 00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:29.840 involved in it or not, as irrelevant. The guy who tried to kill 573 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.280 the president is a comedy. They wanted to make that point. So if 574 00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.960 they had that picture, then they should have published it. Like I said, 575 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.920 page one, Here is exhibit one, ladies and gentlemen, in the 576 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:45.159 Volumes of Evidence. We'll put it on the inside cover of the Warren Commission 577 00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:50.159 Reports, singular volume. Here it is. Here's your COMI right there, 578 00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:53.199 meeting with other comedies. I mean, I know I'm using old language here, 579 00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:58.239 but true right well, and you even you could go further than that. 580 00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:01.400 I mean, the FBI was holding copy of a letter that Oswald had 581 00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:07.880 written the Communist Party USA that fall, saying, you know, he was 582 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:10.199 really wanted to support them, and and by the way, should he go 583 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:15.360 undercover? Should he go under like? I mean, would that not make 584 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:22.760 a great So the pieces of evidence that you should have for these scenarios that 585 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:28.159 really make them stick are not there. And the only one that has, 586 00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:34.159 the only story that has any real solid evidence seemingly behind it is this Gilberto 587 00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:39.880 Alvarado story, which like blows apart within about three days of FBI investigation. 588 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:44.800 So you're left with the fact that it's kind of you say, if this, 589 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.599 if somebody was running any of these programs, A, they did a 590 00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:52.760 terrible job of it. And you know, because none of that is setting 591 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:59.360 their post assassination. And what it really is is you have embarrassment post assassination. 592 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:04.199 Some money is the wrong photo. They showed the wrong photo of Oswell's 593 00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:08.440 mother, Right, listen, For somebody who doesn't know the details on this, 594 00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:12.559 could you please give us a brief and I mean, like, you 595 00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:17.119 know, a one two minute summary of what the Albarato story entails, because 596 00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:20.400 somebody might be hearing that and going, wait a minute, what is he 597 00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.280 talking about the Albaretto You know, because you did mention money being exchanged. 598 00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:28.599 But please give people like, here is what that actually, you know, 599 00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:32.280 the basics, if you will. That's this guy. A cable comes out 600 00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:37.840 of Mexico City and it's endorsed by the ambassador, the US Ambassador to Mexico, 601 00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:45.760 the CIA station chief, and the head of Station counter intelligence, David 602 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:50.519 Phillips, and they all go. This goes to headquarters and it says we 603 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:59.039 have this source who was in the Cuban consulate he observed Lee Harvey Oswald in 604 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:06.519 an extended conversation with three people, including a young woman, including a red 605 00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:15.719 haired negro, and he overheard the discussion. Parts of the discussion and including 606 00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:20.840 a remark that Oswald saying, well, you're not man enough to do it, 607 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:22.840 and the other guy saying, well, then you're going to have to 608 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:27.800 do it. He saw him give him an exact amount of cash, I 609 00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:31.159 mean, the exact amount of cash, just like ten five hundred and thirty 610 00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:34.960 six dollars or something like that. That's not it, but you know, 611 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:38.920 right the to the penny, Okay, he saw that. It's in what 612 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:45.960 he's providing. He got he got the girls address and passport information. You 613 00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:50.440 got had You got to think, where's he standing to see this? Like 614 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:55.599 this is all going on in the lobby and nobody you know, somebody is 615 00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:59.599 paying os well, they kill the president, and they don't notice this guy's 616 00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:02.639 looking over their shoulder unless he's supposed to be part of the group. Unless 617 00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.000 he's supposed to be part of the group, Larry, how the hell is 618 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:07.960 he observing all his details? So yeah, I mean, you know, 619 00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:13.239 pininsillars are one thing, but give me a break. Yes, hardly a 620 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:19.159 B movie class stuff, but they're sending it to It goes to everybody, 621 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:27.599 not everybody, but every Johnson and CIA director this is and they keep supporting 622 00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.159 it, like for several days, saying, well, we've interviewed him more 623 00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:37.559 and he's got more detail, and he's a really credible source, and so 624 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:42.320 everybody, you know, this is a very detail story, even even it's 625 00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:46.599 soiled. David Phillips, who writes several books after the assassination, and one 626 00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:52.159 of his books would write as pure fact that it was known that Oswald carried 627 00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:57.440 that ten thousand dollars back to the US and had been paid to kill Kenny. 628 00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:01.239 This is. This is a real in your CIA officer who writes this 629 00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:06.880 in a book, okay, as fact. So they're just adamant that this 630 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.920 is true. Well, the FBI shows quickly, investigates, shows this guy 631 00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:16.199 was not in the Cuban Counsulate when he says he was. They start deconstructing 632 00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:22.559 this other thing. The whole thing explodes, starts to unravel. These three 633 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:28.960 parties write another message to headquarters saying, well, we still really believe with 634 00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:32.280 him. He just got his days wrong. Okay, he did, he 635 00:50:32.360 --> 00:50:36.039 did not make a note. Okay, And by the way, in the 636 00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:45.599 following message, we understand he is actually an intelligence asset for Nicaragua and he 637 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:52.199 was doing collections work in the agency. Well we all know now that Nicaragua 638 00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:58.000 was like at the hip with CIA and David Phillips. But they're they're saying 639 00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:01.960 he's still credible. It just he wrote this all that. And no, 640 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:07.199 he didn't report it to us at the time, right, because you might 641 00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:13.159 think that somebody who's an intelligence askedt for a you know, foreign country closely 642 00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:16.320 allied with the US, would have mentioned this. No, he only brought 643 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:20.760 it up after the assassinations. Well, it's just the assassination of the president. 644 00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:22.039 I mean, you know, nobody wants to warn anybody about that, 645 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:28.480 Larry, do they? So you know, really you have to ask what 646 00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:32.159 are these guys in Mexico City on is this? Is this just a diversion 647 00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:37.400 so that everybody gets interested in this and doesn't ask them embarrassing questions about that 648 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:43.199 picture or a lot of other embarrassing questions, you know, was it just 649 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.199 a diversion? But I guess to answer your question, the point is that 650 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:54.519 the further we go with Mexico City. The more of the mystery originates within 651 00:51:54.679 --> 00:52:01.480 the strange behavior within the CIA of you know, they're doing things that appeared 652 00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:07.360 to be stupid, they're doing things that cover up other things that appear to 653 00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:13.239 be smart. You know, it's just like this whole, whole Mexican City 654 00:52:14.480 --> 00:52:19.039 mystery is largely and even Hoover realized that, as you said, it's sort 655 00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:22.039 of like, what were they doing? Why did they lie to us? 656 00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:25.480 They lied to us, right, you know, so I don't have an 657 00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:30.119 answer. I don't know that it was, you know, wasn't something evil. 658 00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:35.840 You know, there's several scenarios that present themselves, But the one obvious 659 00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:40.599 thing is that virtually all this mystery doesn't come from Oswald. It comes from 660 00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:47.079 Mexico City station and CIA headquarters, who clearly are talking past each other purposefully. 661 00:52:49.639 --> 00:52:54.079 See. The only certainty I think someone could derive from all of this 662 00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:01.079 is that there was a need for multiple cover ups. There was a decided 663 00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:07.760 need to cover up a lot of information, and some of it makes perfect 664 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:13.320 obvious sense. Nobody wants to reveal that the Mexican President and the Mexican government 665 00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:20.920 are completely in bed with all this surveillance of various foreign dignitaries that are on 666 00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:23.320 their soil, even though they're technically on their own soil because they're in their 667 00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:28.239 consulates and embassies, which are declared, you know, legally parts of Like 668 00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:30.719 if you're in a US consulate, that's US soil, if you're standing on 669 00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:36.760 it in that foreign country, et cetera. Yeah, but they're literally surveilling 670 00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:40.280 people there, invading the sovereignty of other nations that were invited to be there. 671 00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:46.559 Okay, because beyond the intelligence gathering assets and things like that, they're 672 00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:52.119 also supposed to be there for various diplomatic purposes. Okay, so there's a 673 00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:57.079 need for cover up there because that might be an embarrassment. That makes perfect 674 00:53:57.159 --> 00:54:00.800 sense. But once you get away from that, Larry, there's still a 675 00:54:00.800 --> 00:54:06.519 lot of open questions in my mind and what are we ultimately to take away 676 00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:10.800 from this go ahead? Ultimately, to me, the revelation that comes out 677 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:19.760 of Mexico City, the one major overwhelming outside all of this is the CIA 678 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:27.239 did have an operational interest in Lee Harvey Oswald before the assassination, only weeks 679 00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:34.360 before the assassination, and it was an operational interest within Angleton's counterintelligence group that 680 00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:37.039 appears to have been there ever since he went to Russia. You know, 681 00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:43.760 was this a mole hunt as Simpitch and Newman talk, very possibly. But 682 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:50.079 in addition to that, the Cuba projects people, Fitzgerald and Special Affairs staff 683 00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:54.639 and JM. Wave clearly had some kind of knowledge and interest of Oswald in 684 00:54:54.679 --> 00:55:01.159 regard to Cuba. So to me, what really is emerges from the whole 685 00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:10.119 thing is it's actually proof that Oswell was known, that Oswell was under investigation 686 00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:17.760 and to the FBI, and that Ozwele was known and of interest operationally to 687 00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:24.000 the CIA, which is something they could never ever admit to, and just 688 00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:28.880 for the record, really fast in case it wasn't made clear. Slowly but 689 00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:34.360 surely the entire Oswald got paid to kill the President's scenario with the reliable source 690 00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:40.679 totally fell apart so that it becomes nothing. Basically, Eventually it starts out 691 00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:45.800 as we have a legitimate piece of intelligence here that this happened before the assassination, 692 00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:50.280 and slowly but surely it just sort of unraveled as people started to dig 693 00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:52.159 into it. So it's off the table in case anybody thinks, oh, 694 00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:58.880 is there something to that. It totally fell apart as anybody started to pull 695 00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:01.719 on any thread of it, it seems like or am I misunderstanding? Without 696 00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:07.880 any pushback. I mean, this is one of the most egregious professional mistakes 697 00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:14.159 that you could make. For the station chief and for Phillips to promote a 698 00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:20.719 story that is so sensational and so stupid and have it destroyed by the FBI. 699 00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:25.079 You know, where is the where's their performance review? You know, 700 00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:30.320 somebody should have gotten burned. There should have been a memo saying you people 701 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.280 have any idea what you're doing. But there's no pushback. It's like they 702 00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.880 got away with it. And Phillips even continues to write as if it were 703 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:45.360 real. So yeah, I think that's a very key part that there's no 704 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:49.920 pushback within the agency over any of this. Right now, it goes so 705 00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.480 far, by the way, just for the record, here again, David 706 00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:55.639 Attley Phillips, if he's publishing something, you know after his time with the 707 00:56:55.679 --> 00:57:00.639 CIA, allegedly those books all get vetted by the CIA, yep, And 708 00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:06.239 they didn't pull that. They didn't pull him telling it all other stuff. 709 00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:10.280 We actually had copies of books being vetted and they would pull minor stuff, 710 00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:14.320 but they let that stay in there. Yeah, that was allowed to stay 711 00:57:14.559 --> 00:57:16.840 by the CIA vetting his book. I just want to make that clear to 712 00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:21.360 people in case they missed it, because that's something you need to know, 713 00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:25.400 is that And that's why win Scott's biography was never formally published, right, 714 00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:30.400 because that never got approval. And oh, by the way, supposedly disappeared 715 00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:34.679 out of his safe. But that's a story for another day after his death. 716 00:57:34.760 --> 00:57:39.320 Right Anyway. Ultimately, though, Larry, what do we take away 717 00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:44.440 from all of this is that there was clearly some sort of adventure in Mexico 718 00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:51.000 City. Is it the historical Lee Harvey Oswald that was absolutely involved in it? 719 00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:53.519 That's another question that I have for you because some people say, no, 720 00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:59.639 it's just all about an impersonation. Clearly it wasn't the historical Lee Harvey 721 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.760 Oswell. Whether people want to go with the Harvey and Lee scenario or whatever, 722 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:06.119 you know, those guys are at least supposed to look like. So 723 00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:09.239 this doesn't make any sense with the Harvey and Lee situation where maybe it was 724 00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:12.880 Harvey, maybe it was Lee. No, no, no, do we 725 00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:17.360 have the historical Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City? And whether we can decipher 726 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:21.840 what the hell he was doing there or not is another story, But that's 727 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:24.880 not his fault. That would be the fault of the agencies putting out different 728 00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:30.559 things, taking seriously certain things that weren't supposed to be. Mixing up stuff, 729 00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:37.840 whether purposely or through incompetence is almost irrelevant now because you're never going to 730 00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:42.480 sort that. But do we have legitimately Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City, 731 00:58:42.679 --> 00:58:46.199 And do we really know at this point in time, even looking back with 732 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:50.760 a lot of the revelations that have come out, do we know what it 733 00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:54.400 actually means? Quite frankly, can we kind of put a label on this? 734 00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:58.760 And they put it the rest My conclusion would be much the same as 735 00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:04.800 the conclusion that the ag just see a officially put into our writing. What 736 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:07.840 was Yes, it was Lee R. V. Oswell who had been at 737 00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:14.000 the Cuban and Russian embassies. Uh, that's that's the call, the way 738 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.119 they called it, And there was there was evidence to support that. There's 739 00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:22.480 actually even evidence in the Warren Commission in terms of things that were brought back. 740 00:59:22.519 --> 00:59:24.639 I mean, you can question all of that, but there their their 741 00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:30.119 evaluation was, yes, that was really all Oswald. They concluded that he 742 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:37.400 might indeed have been impersonated on a telephone call, which I would agree with, 743 00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:40.519 and we go into in the book as to the fact that that very 744 00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:47.440 well was a a c I A call made specifically its pretext call to try 745 00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:52.280 to find out who this American was. Uh. So they agree with they 746 00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:58.119 say, yes, it was him, it was likely impersonated. Uh but 747 00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:04.360 beyond that essential because the CIA has screwed the record up so much and it 748 01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:09.599 is so inconsistent, they really were not comfortable with commenting on his travel, 749 01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:16.599 his lodging, you know, is his day to day activities. And they 750 01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:22.079 felt that that, quite frankly, was the fault of the CIACI had not 751 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:27.679 been straight with them, not had tried to unravel any of these mysteries. 752 01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.760 And it could have. It could have. There's several things that could have 753 01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:36.719 done. There's several things that could have done to resolve this on November twenty 754 01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:40.519 third, right that it did not. So it was the CIA's decision to 755 01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:45.960 muddy the waters and keep them muddied for years. But you and I attempting 756 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:50.320 to assemble let's just say, we wanted to assemble the best, you know, 757 01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:52.800 chronological setup here and give people an idea. Look, he stayed at 758 01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:57.800 this hotel, he traveled here, he ate there, et cetera, et 759 01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:00.559 cetera. While he was in Mexico City here, arrived via this route, 760 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:07.599 left via that route. We can't do that step by step at any point 761 01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:10.960 here. Regardless of all these agencies that have these different records, we're not 762 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:17.119 able to assemble the complete timeline. Are we actually? We are? We 763 01:01:17.199 --> 01:01:22.119 are? Here's the problem. I mean, the FBI did that. It's 764 01:01:22.119 --> 01:01:25.440 in the Warren Commission. You've got you've got a list of you know, 765 01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:30.679 where he stayed, what meals he ate, You've got interviews with waiters who 766 01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:37.599 served him. One fascinating interview with the waiter says Oswald didn't realize that we 767 01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:40.119 dessert was actually part of the meal deal. Oh, it's always appeared in 768 01:01:40.840 --> 01:01:45.679 Yeah, it's always appeared incompletely to Me's the thing. Lastly, Oswell, 769 01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:50.719 to me, the problem with all of that is if you look at it 770 01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:54.960 closely, which many JFK folks have done, you'll find inconsistencies. You'll find 771 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.360 you'll look at the paperwork and you go, I don't know that signature is 772 01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:06.920 not the same as that. You'll find problems throughout it. So the evidence 773 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:09.239 is there. It just depends on which parts of it you want to challenge 774 01:02:09.239 --> 01:02:12.960 and which parts you don't want to challenge. You see, that's yeah, 775 01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:15.440 you tell Marina he had been there? Absolutely? Yes. And that's the 776 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:19.880 weird thing about this is that to me, right, my reading of it 777 01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:23.559 is that it appears incomplete because there are certain parts of that record that I'm 778 01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:29.519 sorry to say appear to be fabricated because they don't look legitimate. Now, 779 01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:31.400 there's other things there, Like you said, that whole thing with the dessert 780 01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:36.920 makes perfect sense if you understand that Oswald was like this sprugal guy who like 781 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:38.639 if they told him he look fifty cents extra for cheese, he'd say, 782 01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:43.119 never mind the cheese. This is the kind of guy he was. Or 783 01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:47.679 he buys a souvenir for Marina that's actually made in Japan, right, I 784 01:02:47.679 --> 01:02:52.440 mean, this has got to be fun thing. Would any intelligence agency do 785 01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:54.280 that if they wanted to make this look real? No? But is that 786 01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:58.639 pure Oswald? Yes, that's pure osal because it was probably the cheapest thing. 787 01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:01.400 I lost it. But because it was probably you think that really clouts 788 01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:08.960 it is the FBI really had to rely on Mexican companies and on the Mexican 789 01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:15.960 federal police to bring them a lot of this information. And we're talking about 790 01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:22.079 the Mexican federal police who work for the president. So there are lots of 791 01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:27.679 questions can be raised. You know, how good was the record that the 792 01:03:27.719 --> 01:03:31.840 Mexicans were bringing. Did somebody talk to them and did somebody want to make 793 01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:39.079 this more obscure than it was for whatever reason? But I think that's the 794 01:03:39.159 --> 01:03:43.920 problem, Chuck. Yeah, we have a story. We just don't have 795 01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:47.360 any confidence in the details. See, That's what I'm saying, is that 796 01:03:47.480 --> 01:03:51.679 to me, it appears as though there's holes because when I look at a 797 01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:54.519 detail that sort of starts to fall apart because it doesn't look right. And 798 01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:58.039 you know, like you said, in some cases you can say, okay, 799 01:03:58.119 --> 01:04:00.719 signature is wrong here. By the way, that doesn't make a lot 800 01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.840 of sense because he had to have been somewhere else when this happened. You 801 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:06.000 know, a couple of things go on here where I got to say, 802 01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:10.199 I discount some of it. So I don't feel as though there is a 803 01:04:10.239 --> 01:04:14.280 complete record, although if you're kind of trusting and accepting of it, you 804 01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:18.719 could lay out a the question it has to be raised is why would this 805 01:04:18.880 --> 01:04:27.079 be if this is a well planned under either scenario, this is oswell following 806 01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:31.119 orders right as part of a poison pill thing or blame the Cubans thing, 807 01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:35.199 whatever, There's no need for this. Let him do what he's going to 808 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:39.559 do. Let the record needs to stand by itself. If it was an 809 01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:45.880 impersonator, which sort of makes no sense. The thing about all of this 810 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:49.280 is if this was a plan to me, if this was a plan that 811 01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:54.280 was a serious plan related to the assassination, it was going to need to 812 01:04:54.320 --> 01:04:58.440 stand up after the fact. So the details needed to look that investigated. 813 01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:03.559 Why would any body make it this bad? The details need to look better. 814 01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:10.239 Suggests that what we're seeing occurred after the fact. It wasn't, you 815 01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:15.239 know, otherwise it wouldn't have all these holes in it. Well, right, 816 01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:16.880 because if you go, okay, say you discovered that he ate in 817 01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:20.320 a restaurant, you go to question the waiters, you know, three weeks, 818 01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:24.159 four weeks, a month, two months later, you got a problem. 819 01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:27.440 Now, if you collected it on that day, and you were actively 820 01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:30.599 doing it on that day, and you ask a waiter what happened yesterday, 821 01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:33.639 you got a better chance of getting your details straight, stuff like that. 822 01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:39.599 So after the fact, yeah, record left there should have Oswald should have 823 01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:43.960 signed things, or I mean there should be a solid paper trail and a 824 01:05:43.960 --> 01:05:47.719 photographic trail. I mean, we just should not if this was a that's 825 01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:56.199 my view. If this was a planned, structured activity for either a poison 826 01:05:56.239 --> 01:06:01.199 pill or whatever it is, it shouldn't have the whole Somebody made the holes 827 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:09.360 after the fact, whether it was the DFS or the way the FBI conducted 828 01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:17.800 the investigation or the CIA involved with the DFS that it just you said this 829 01:06:17.880 --> 01:06:23.039 earlier. It's sort of like, why wouldn't this be on the first page 830 01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:28.440 of the Warrant Commissionery board rather than you know, be fuddling us after all 831 01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.599 this time? Right. Well, the other thing is just a counterpoint to 832 01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:35.440 what I was saying just before about how I feel as though some of the 833 01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:41.159 details don't line up and therefore I discount them. Is this in any investigation, 834 01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:45.519 And I've looked at, you know, small murder investigations, I've read 835 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:49.400 records of other investigations, not something you know, so complex as to have 836 01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:56.360 so many agencies in it. You know, what inconsistencies are almost a guarantee. 837 01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:04.360 Yeah, if somebody is legitimate organically investigating something. So in some cases 838 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:10.760 these are byproducts of organic investigations. Like I said, you don't realize you 839 01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:14.159 need to question the people at a certain site about certain things until two months 840 01:07:14.239 --> 01:07:16.400 later. By the time you get back there, their memories are not quite 841 01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:19.320 as good, especially if there's some a place that deals with the public a 842 01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:23.840 lot. Like I said, waiters are a perfect example. They might remember 843 01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:28.119 that customer the next day, a week later if they made, you know, 844 01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:31.039 some sort of impression on them. But give them a couple of months 845 01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:34.559 and they might mix things up. They might not have it straight. They 846 01:07:34.639 --> 01:07:39.360 might not remember where the credit card receipt is anymore, et cetera, et 847 01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:43.280 cetera. Right because of just might want to It's sort of like, oh, 848 01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:45.760 there's the other parent talking to me. You know, it might give 849 01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:49.239 you know, if I say too much, other people will come to talk 850 01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:53.480 to me, kind of like Sylvia Durant and the Mexican police. Well that's 851 01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:56.079 who I was going to bring. Thank your point, it's really well taken 852 01:07:56.119 --> 01:08:01.519 about the organic nature of any investigation. We shouldn't we shouldn't expect it to 853 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:05.960 be perfect. Never exactly. So with all that in mind, I think 854 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:10.519 we've done a pretty good job of going through this and trying to give people 855 01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:13.679 what they should be able to take away from it with another look, yet 856 01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:18.079 another look at Oswald's adventure in Mexico City and what actually happened. And I'll 857 01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:21.279 tell you again, my views on this have shifted over the years. There 858 01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:25.439 was a certain point at which I was saying to myself as I read you 859 01:08:25.479 --> 01:08:28.720 know, these different things, I don't even know if this guy ever went, 860 01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.920 you know, because of the confusion, because of the nature of what 861 01:08:33.079 --> 01:08:36.119 was coming up the way it was coming out, I was saying to myself, 862 01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:39.840 I don't know if this guy even went to Mexico City. You know, 863 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:44.039 maybe this is all fabricated. Now I've changed my view over the years, 864 01:08:44.119 --> 01:08:48.119 and obviously we've seen more evidence come out and more interesting stuff that doesn't 865 01:08:48.119 --> 01:08:53.079 necessarily straighten out the record, but adds to the validity that there was a 866 01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:57.560 record to be capped anyway, you know. So that's the way I look 867 01:08:57.600 --> 01:08:59.840 at it. I mean, Larry, what would be your final thoughts on 868 01:08:59.880 --> 01:09:01.079 this? And then I'll let you go because we're over an hour now, 869 01:09:01.079 --> 01:09:03.640 and I only meant to do an hour with you today. I'm sorry about 870 01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:06.920 that, but I mean, there's just so many questions. It's done for 871 01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:13.399 me, Chuck, it's it's it moved it out of the Obviously, elements 872 01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:17.680 of it are still a mystery. But I see no reason to not accept 873 01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:23.239 the fact that it was Lee Oswald there, since everything he did was very 874 01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:30.520 consistent and and you know it reflected as previous activities. But for me, 875 01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:35.800 what it really it really leads me to do is look back at what was 876 01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:40.720 going on. So, yeah, what what does it really tell me that's 877 01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:45.560 important to me about the assassination? It tells me that there are CI officers 878 01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:51.039 that new things about Lee Oswald, We're planning to do things with Lee Oswald 879 01:09:51.439 --> 01:09:57.399 that they lied about and that they didn't reveal and that they didn't share. 880 01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:04.920 So quite frankly, it makes the CIA look much more suspicious in terms of 881 01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:12.199 covering up information about Oswald than you might otherwise think. Well, with that, 882 01:10:12.399 --> 01:10:15.399 Larry, you know, if that's effectively your final thoughts will leave it 883 01:10:15.439 --> 01:10:19.520 there. Go to Larry dash Hancock dot com. Obviously I highly recommend, 884 01:10:19.720 --> 01:10:23.279 and he takes up a lot of space on my bookshelf, which I got 885 01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:27.479 to reorganize this week, by the way, but still he'll be taking up 886 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:31.319 a lot of space on my bookshelf. Why because the information and analysis in 887 01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:38.199 everything from Shadow Warfare Unidentified to you know, the awful Grace of God. 888 01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:45.560 There is so much information and historical analysis in Larry Hancock's work that is at 889 01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:50.000 the same time sober and yet not the typical fair. It's unique. And 890 01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:54.279 if you go to Larry Dashncock dot com you can follow his blog, his 891 01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:58.880 work, his stuff on you know, the what do they call them now? 892 01:10:58.920 --> 01:11:02.119 The UAPs Excuse me because I was going to say UFOs again. UAPs 893 01:11:02.479 --> 01:11:06.640 has worked with that group. You'll be hearing about Larry's involvement with Lancer. 894 01:11:06.680 --> 01:11:11.359 Although he won't be there in person this year, I do believe he'll still 895 01:11:11.399 --> 01:11:15.520 be involved in some way and looking forward to that in November. And indeed 896 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:20.439 I'm going to let Larry go now and continue on with the podcast after a 897 01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:26.159 short break, but extremely important stuff Larry and what is the name of the 898 01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:32.600 upcoming volume on Oswald where you're re examining him once again and maybe putting him 899 01:11:32.600 --> 01:11:39.880 into a more again sober and Larry Hancock like perspective in a single volume coming 900 01:11:39.960 --> 01:11:43.520 soon. It's being edited now, well, we have it by November. 901 01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:45.439 Number one, Larry, and number two, please tell people the title again 902 01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:50.079 so they can go look for it a few months from now. I certainly 903 01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:56.239 hope we will have it by then. The working title is The Oswald Puzzle, 904 01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:00.279 The Osweal Puzzle, a re examination of Lee Harvey Oswell, but the 905 01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:04.960 real title is The Oswald Puzzle. The Oswald Puzzle the primary title Larry Hancock. 906 01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:09.720 And thanks again Larry for having your patients, you know, run through 907 01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:13.479 with me a little bit. I appreciate you answering my questions and going through 908 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:17.399 a couple of scenarios that I'm very sure interested listeners would do as well. 909 01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:20.840 And I think we're going to learn a lot in The Oswald Puzzle in the 910 01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:24.960 coming months. So I look forward to that and we'll talk about it when 911 01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:28.000 it comes out too, Larry, if you want, sound good Lly. 912 01:12:28.680 --> 01:12:32.079 I enjoyed it chat absolutely, So maybe we'll hear from Larry Hancock in about 913 01:12:32.119 --> 01:12:35.199 two weeks. And when we do, who knows what we'll be talking about. 914 01:12:35.239 --> 01:12:39.760 We could be talking about new emergent things in the news. We could 915 01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:45.600 be talking about the latest on UAPs, the assassination or assassinations of the sixties. 916 01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:49.279 You never know, But Larry Hancock has a lot of written work on 917 01:12:49.399 --> 01:12:54.640 all of that, and I absolutely endorse and recommend all of it. So 918 01:12:55.399 --> 01:12:58.319 with all that being said, stick around. I'll be back after a short 919 01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:10.359 break the Ocelli if that continues to this dot com radio. The War State 920 01:13:10.399 --> 01:13:15.159 by Michael Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy 921 01:13:15.159 --> 01:13:19.319 presidency in the context of the Times and reveals never before published information about the 922 01:13:19.359 --> 01:13:24.680 Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been 923 01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:29.279 president two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the 924 01:13:29.319 --> 01:13:32.399 Cold War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, 925 01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:36.319 the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, 926 01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:42.119 it became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to 927 01:13:42.159 --> 01:13:45.039 invade Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island armed 928 01:13:45.039 --> 01:13:49.279 with nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. 929 01:13:49.399 --> 01:13:54.560 Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to 930 01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:59.439 go to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why and will 931 01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:03.159 show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information The Warstate dot 932 01:14:03.159 --> 01:14:11.960 com. In Denial Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks by Larryhancock. Secret 933 01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:16.680 wars became a staple of US covert operations and are still happening today. Larryhancock's 934 01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:21.119 book In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using new files. 935 01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:25.880 It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs that no one has ever written about 936 01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:30.159 before. It shows why it really failed and why the United States did not 937 01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:34.159 learn from it. It also shows why other countries today are doing secret operations 938 01:14:34.199 --> 01:14:39.520 with more success. This is the book that puts what some want to deny 939 01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:45.279 into the light. In Denial, Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks Larryhancock. 940 01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:50.560 For more information, go to Larry hyphen Hancock dot com. Pick up 941 01:14:50.600 --> 01:14:57.000 your copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital or physical foh Chili 942 01:14:57.119 --> 01:15:14.199 dot com. Revelation through Conversation, Ready, Get Ready Well important information about 943 01:15:14.239 --> 01:15:17.199 the November in Dallas Lancer conference coming up. Just to let you know, 944 01:15:17.359 --> 01:15:24.079 virtual tickets are now available for in person and for the online both or one 945 01:15:24.199 --> 01:15:27.640 or the other if you like. There's also a student price of thirty nine 946 01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:30.359 ninety nine, but you must show proof of being a student if you attend. 947 01:15:30.399 --> 01:15:36.039 Tickets are on sale right now online at Assassination Conference dot com. The 948 01:15:36.119 --> 01:15:41.560 date is November twenty second to the twenty fourth of twenty twenty four at the 949 01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:45.600 Hotel Dallas Marriotte Downtown. 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