WEBVTT

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Calling All Beings, y'all. Oh
oh man, that was great man.

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That was great to get in the
workout man, because that's what you got

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to do when you're coming on with
this guest, because this man know him

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way around the weight room. So
welcome back to Calling All Beings. I'm

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your host d J, along with
my co host, the brilliant, the

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sexy, and the man who looked
like Rocky today money man, Nathan,

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what's up? Nathan? Hey,
man, one love and give it up

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to associate producer and new member of
the team party people. Put some of

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those hands together for Akashi Chris.
Yes, yes, all right, Nathan's

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look it is man, Nathan makes
hugging eggs along with your work out.

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Yeah, I've got that over here. This is what Rocky would look like

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if he was an intellectual and had
done as much studies to Hey, I

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got two turtles here. The name
is Kuff and Link. You know what

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I mean. I don't know what
a turtles think about it your Adrian,

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but anyway, all right, let's
bring in our very special guests. We've

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been chasing this man for months,
Nathan months, months, ears more difficult

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to get on than James Earl Carter, junior President of the United States in

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nineteen seventy six. Damn. So, but I'll tell you what without further

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ado, let's bring in the Hudson
Valley's own, New York's own, engaging

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the phenomenons own. This brother got
the meta perspective. Put your hands together

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for James Young Dolly. Yes,
James Iron dooling people. He in my

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hometown right across from Linda Zimmerman.
Yes, yes, man, if he

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swam across, he'd be like,
Yo, Linda, throw me a towel.

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And I'm gonna do it this summer. By the way, I'm gonna

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swim from Linda's side to your side. It's gonna happen again. So again,

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man again. I did it last
summer, and I did it the

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summer before. All right, Uh, James Man, welcome to the show,

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brother, Thanks for having me.
You know. Fortunately I was able

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to make it here for that panel, so I've been here before. That's

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right. In fact, James may
be our only returning guests so far.

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Do you think of it that way? Uh? Well, Andy, Andy's

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been on a couple of times.
I don't remember that. I don't Yeah,

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I'll tell you what, man,
No, it's super exciting. We

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needed more bandwidth, James, and
uh, you know, quite frankly,

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first of all, we've been trying
to get you on even before I heard

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your story, because Nathan gave me
his top five the week that we said

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okay, we're officially collaborating and we're
going to be a show, I said,

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you know, what's your top five? And you were on there.

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Exo Academian was on there. I
want to say Zignal was on there,

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but I don't remember who the other
two were, but you were on there,

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James to five buddy, Yes,
yeah, that is so. I

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said, in all of UFO Twitter, anybody that you could have on because

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I'll ask anybody to be on the
show. I don't care who it is.

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And uh and James knows that.
So so so so you were.

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You know, you were top five
and it's an honor to speak with you,

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and I'm glad we're gonna have a
little bit more time. But the

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point I was getting at was,
after hearing of your experiences, uh,

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your personal experiences, I was pretty
blown away. So the out of body

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experience that you had after the car
wreck, uh, and it's just it

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was really deep man, and I
hope that you'd be willing to revisit that

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today for us. Yeah, sure, I can. You know, Yeah,

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for for many years, I really
didn't even talk about that, even

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even within the C five community.
Uh, because you know, I was

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pretty even now still today, I'm
pretty involved in the C five community,

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and a lot of those experiences I
didn't I didn't really talk about for for

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a while. I mean, my
my close friends and family, they knew

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the people that were they are new
and and people that I knew really closely

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in the C five community. But
uh, yeah, I only publicly started

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sharing that, I believe this year. Actually is it? How do you

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like quantify or how do you how
do you describe an experiencer? To me,

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I describe it as someone who was
emotionally affected by whatever it was that

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that happened to him as a result
of that contact. How would you characterize

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or describe what you consider an experimenture
to be? Yeah, well, you

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know what, I don't. I
don't even really like that term, and

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I understand it's usefulness. So I
understand the usefulness of language. And we're

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trying to point to a certain thing, describe it, and pack it nice

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in our in our minds and understand
it. I had never really considered myself

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an experience or I don't title myself
an experience, or although obviously I acknowledge,

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you know, having such experiences kind
of puts you in a category kind

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of like what you're saying, right, But yeah, I guess you can,

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and you have to say what kind
of experience or because there's people that

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I mean, it does so happen
that you know, once you have one

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of these experiences, you're kind of
more likely to have some of the others.

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But that's not always the case.
There's people that have you know,

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I mean again, yeah, wow, there's a lot to go with there,

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because, right, you have people
that do psychedelics and they have a

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psychedelic experience. Right, are they
experiencers or are we just talking about the

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UFO phenomenon specifically? And then at
what point do you separate the UFO phenomenon

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from paranormal spiritual beings? Right?
Uh? How do you separate what somebody

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would call an angel from an extraterrestrial
intelligence or UFO or even a ghost?

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And then at that point, what
if what you thought was a ghost was

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actually some kind of e T hologram, right, I mean, so there's

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all this, uh, there's there's
a lot of ways you can go with

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that, but yeah, I guess
how you're framing it is is actually pretty

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accurate. You know, somebody who
has, in this case an experience with

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with the UFO phenomenon. I mean, that's how from my understanding, how

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that that term was generally used experiencer. I don't know what if John Mack

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dubbed it that, but I believe
it came out around that time because they

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didn't want to use the word abductee. They wanted to use different language and

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terminology too to present what they were
experiencing. So I think they use that

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term. So it's accurate in that
sense. But then again, you know,

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and then more nuanced conversation that can
go a lot of ways, right

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right, But it seems like the
division, and maybe this is just one

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division among many, but it's those
who seek the experience, they're initiating the

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experience like a C five for example, and those who who have the experience

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come to them, you know,
sort of maybe not of their planning or

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volition or whatever. They're sort of
thrust onto the stage of the experience and

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it's like a I'm trying to think
of a way to qualify it, but

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it's almost as if the line between
waking reality and non waking reality is incredibly

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blurred and it's hard to tell the
difference between the two. It's not quite

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lucid dreaming, but it sort of
falls into maybe kind of that category.

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Well, and then you know,
I have somebody coming on for Contact Week

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and for people watching and listening.
Contact Week is going to be December twelfth

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to December nineteenth. I'm going to
have somebody come on. They're going to

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share their story, hopefully if they
don't back out right right, and they

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haven't shared their story many years,
and I knew them pretty pretty freshly after

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their experience, and they were somebody
who initiated a contact experience and you know,

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they didn't I don't maybe they didn't
know what to expect, but they

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had a very profound contact experience in
broad daylight, which even though it was

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a CE five initiated contact, that
experience changed their life like quite profoundly.

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So I mean, at that point, you know, whether it was an

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invited or not, that is an
experience, right with a pretty traumatic impact,

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So you know, or are we
talking about somebody who has just repeated

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experiences like myself or somebody like let
me draw a parallel. Let me draw

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a parallel. So for a juxtaposition. For me, I saw something in

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in Peak Skill that was at the
Peak Skill ranch where I grew up,

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floated up above the tree line and
headed off down your way towards like Mohegan

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Lake, Yorktown Heights area. And
I only saw it for just a couple

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of seconds, but it's pretty obvious
what this what this was at Sunday night,

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you know, in Peak Skill in
September. But I wasn't emotionally affected

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by it. It didn't it didn't
come close to me. It didn't affect

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me in a way that I could
really say, wow, you know,

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I now what would happen if I
would have had a much closer contact.

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So that's what But you and some
of the other experiencers there's a significant uh

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that contact because it was contact.
Mine is just like oh wow, look

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at that, and then it floated
away, whereas somebody else there's actually you

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have time to actually look at it
and go, oh my god, like

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what does this mean? That's actually
yeah, that's a great conversation. Actually,

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you guys could do a whole podcast
on that, basically doing close encounters

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versus experiencers, because again, you
know, if it's somebody an experiencer because

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they have regular experiences, I think
more people would categorize that as accurate as

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somebody who has repeated experiences, whether
invited or not invited. And again,

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at some point that line does blur. Just as an example with C five,

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right, if somebody starts doing CE
fives and they're really into it and

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they're doing, you know, a
few C fives a week, there comes

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a point where you could just not
be doing any C fives and you're just

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having interactions as well. So that
does occur. So do you know of

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any folks in the C five community
who have been trying to have an experience

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for for some time and and haven't
been able to have one through the C

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five? So I know there there
are people that have a harder time.

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And again, you know there's no
actual like scientific studies on that, and

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and again studies for other things.
I mean, I think that kind of

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like we can speculate on that,
but the actual understanding I think we're far

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away from on a scientific level.
Just because you know, we we can

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speculate, and I actually now there's
some good science being done behind the scenes.

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But as to why some people are
good remote viewers or not, you

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know, there actually now in this
day and age, there is I think

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some science being done on that.
But you know, again, even ten

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years ago, you know, you
couldn't you couldn't explain as to why that

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might be other than pure speculation.
But if I were to speculate, I

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would say mental conditioning, belief systems, and kind of the quality of your

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intention, the quality of your kind
of how seriously you're taking it, the

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reasoning you're you're trying to do it, and if you're really putting effort in,

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you know, if you're if you're
somebody who's most of the case,

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if somebody's really serious about it and
they're going out a few times a week

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trying to do it for several weeks, even a month or two, it's

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going to happen. I think like
ninety percent of the time that that high

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on that that's a very high rate
of success. I would say, well,

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well, no, I mean like
ninety percent of the time it's going

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to eventually occur, not not that
it's going to occur ninety percent of the

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time. Got you just for clarity? God, No, I was trying

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to be really broad and just say, like, when I think of music,

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I think of what is the purpose
of as an artist? If you're

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producing music, what is what is
your goal and ultimately your goal if you

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look at it from a thirty thousand
foot view, is to move emotion.

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If you're successful in your performance,
particularly a live performance, is to move

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emotion among the audience. Whatever that
type, that genre of music is is

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to move. So for a metal
head sometimes it's you know, it's aggression,

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right, but for other forms of
music, it it's a different.

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For the Beatles, it was an
excitement. It was a wow. And

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so I think of the difference between
a sighting and and experiences. Oh I

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saw something, and then an experience
or someone like, oh my god,

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I saw something and I'm gonna start
looking at my life and and thinking about

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what just happened and it becoming a
big deal like that didn't happen with me,

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but there's a lot of my friends
here from UFO Twitter uh that it

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has happened with And so okay,
we don't have deb backstage. We have

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somebody on to actually ask you a
question about CE five. Uh. And

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her name is deb and she is
at a study of UFO's and U A

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P. S. But we'll we'll
get back to her. So we'll just

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continue on with h with the beatings
that Nathan and I have for you.

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I was gonna say, you're you're
talking about uh, you're trying to go

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broad. You're probably looking at my
shoulders here. Yeah, yeah, we

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got to kill man. Why donor
do you have some sort of weightlifting equipment

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in your hand right now? All
right? I got nothing here? Okay,

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but what what years your citing?
It was about eighty two at the

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very Yeah, it was the very
beginning of the Hudson Value UFO wave,

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which is spectacular and I think,
I know Linda Zimmerman has done the tremendous

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work on it, but I think
it's an underappreciated I mean, you know

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what actually, now that I think
about it, even like there's so much

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new stuff going on that it's it's
you know, a lot of that stuff

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like even the Phoenix lights. I
don't hear about that much anymore. And

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it's like earth shattering, you know, kind of mass sighting you know,

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O'Hair. The airport thing was tremendous, and and the golf breeze incidents,

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you know, those are all huge
flat UFO events, big waves where there's

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constant sightings, right, But the
Hudson Valley, you know, I guess

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I'm fortunate enough to grow up that
I went. I grew up in this

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area, and I had met plenty
of people, you know, more so

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after I was a researcher and I
was like looking around and speaking to people,

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and I, you know, I'm
the kind of person obviously, I'm

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a New Yorker, so I'll just
ask people what they think. Yeah,

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but I met I met actually somebody
at my library, and you know,

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she ended up having several experiences during
that the Hudson value FO wave, and

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she was actually she ended up being
featured in Wonder Linda Zimmerman's books. Oh

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I I actually yeah, actually I
didn't meet someone from the book, but

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I did meet someone that Linda did
interview, and that's how I got her

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phone number to call her. But
one of my high school classmates I posted

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on our class web page and I
was like, crickets, No one responded.

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Then finally a girl came out,
I said. She said, yeah,

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Dave, she said, I had, I had experience. Linda Zimmermann

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came and interviewed us and my neighbor. My whole family saw it in the

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backyard. Yeah, and my neighbor
so in Montrose, right near where you

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live. So yeah, it's funny
because at one of my jobs, I

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met somebody and randomly, I you
know, I brought up the issue because

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I was talking about the Disclosure Project. You know, some years ago.

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I was talking to some people at
work about it, and this gentleman actually

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told me, he's you know,
he's like, yeah, you know,

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in the eighties, I was,
you know, out in this field and

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we saw this huge silent craft.
These the boomerang basically explained, go over

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them completely silently, and I mean
when he's telling the story, he's you

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can see he's he was, you
know, kind of reminiscing, and he

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was amazed by what he had experienced. I don't know how drastically it had

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changed his life, but he was
you could tell, you know, he

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was, I guess you can say, a believer. And what he saw

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was pretty profound. So, you
know, there's there's kind of a decent

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amount of that around here, which
I think is fortunate. There's a spectrum,

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you know, of people, but
I mean just that, you know,

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when someone's talking about it, it's
emotionally moving. Unfortunately, I'm you

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know, mine wasn't very emotionally moving
because I just didn't get to see it

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long enough. And I was going
home and I was going to tell my

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parents because I knew I knew exactly
what my father and my mother would say.

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So I was like talking about this
well and and then again years later

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for me, it ended up that
one of the guys featured in like the

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the like TV show where they covered
it, What's What's that? You're right?

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So one of the guys that was
featured in that show, I believe

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his name is Dennis Sant and he
was some kind of maybe council member in

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Putnam Valley and he ended up like
again, I didn't realize this until way

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afterwards, that he was the brother
of one of the martial arts instructors that

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I knew from this place I went
to. And I was like, oh

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my god, it's it's a small
world, all right, what a connection.

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Well, And I didn't realize that
until after I knew the martial arts

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instructor. And then again I'm like, oh that said, I'm like,

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oh, no way, and it's
like that's his brother and it was small

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world. Yeah, it's weird that
we're from this place. It was like

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this epicenter of of of UFO.
But are we ready to bring on Deb

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now, Nathan, I think we
can. We'll get We'll give it a

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shot. Here, someone to the
to the stream. Okay there, I

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just want to intro her real James, if you can hear me, this

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is she goes by at a study
of UAPs and UFOs. Her name's Deb.

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She's a psychologist by trade, and
she has really done a deep dive

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into document research, going and finding
everything that's open source, everything open source

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about that that's available on any of
the three letter agency websites about UFOs.

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So I think, like Nathan,
she's going to become somebody that's that's well

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known in this space. So Deb, can you hear us? Deb?

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Can I get an amen? Can
you guys hear me? Yes? Ma'am

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agree. So unfortunately I was not
able to use my beautiful avatar, so

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I will share that later. But
I wanted to say hello, James,

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nice to meet you. Thank you
very much. I would like to ask

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you a question about communication with our
visitors. I would like to ask if

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you have a recommendation and specifically for
the US military, and if you think

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there is any risk involved in that
communication. What's the first part of the

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question, how you would recommend that
we would communicate with our visitors. Well,

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again, Ada on if you're going
to talk on on a technological aspect,

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because for all, I know that
there is advanced technology that there there

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can be interactions with. Because even
in c I five field work, there's

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rudimentary forms of electronic communications where there's
interference with electromagnetic devices and and things of

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that nature. And I've I've seen
some pretty stuff Like I've seen stuff like

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that in person that was pretty unique. I don't know how much you can

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garner from that type of communication if
you have to develop a system to kind

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of translate that. But get getting
to the consciousness aspects as far as recommending,

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I mean, I think that's there's
people that are actually looking into that

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in deeper programs. You know,
we hear about the different things even in

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like American Cosmic with these different experiencers, and there's kind of part of agencies

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and they're studying this in secret,
so I think they do have basic understanding

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on that level. On an open
source level, you know, it's I

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don't I don't know if I I
mean, if I would recommend it,

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just say hey, everybody, let's
do it. I'm a proponent of it

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in the sense where if somebody is
open to doing it, I'd say,

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you're You're much more likely to have
a positive experience. However, you know,

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when somebody you don't know how you're
going to react. When you have

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an encounter. You might think,
yeah, this is going to be awesome.

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I'm going to see some kind kind
of ship or something or some orb

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or you know whatever, and you
go out and you do it, and

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it becomes unsettling to you. So
I don't. You know, everybody's an

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individual in that sense, So you
know, usually the people that are going

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to do it are people that are
driven to do it. So in that

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sense, I'm open to making recommendations
for people who are just going to do

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it. And meditation is usually you
know, definitely in the C five Protocols,

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meditation is a standard, and even
Mission RAMA who is doing the same

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kind of work back in the nineteen
seventies in Peru also had meditation, and

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both groups recognized the power of meditation
to kind of stabilize and calm you so

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you're more were balanced and settled in
a sense. Because there's there's you know,

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stories of people having C fives,
especially the early C SETI years,

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where you know, they're like,
yeah, we're gonna go out and make

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it the contact and do this,
and then ships appear, you know,

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crafts come in fairly close, and
people they ran and they drove away and

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sped away like they were you know, so stuff like that happens, and

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so it was all individual so you
know, getting to the you know,

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the communication part, right, there's
when I observed basic forms of communication where

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there's an acknowledgment between you and the
UFO or the intelligence, and there's you

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know, as far as if you
receive impressions and telepathic downloads and things like

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that, again, trying to under
understand what that is directly, that's something

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that has to be studied because if
I receive an impression or a message,

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I mean, how how am I
supposed to validate that? So that's why

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I think that the C five work
in contact needs more attention and study.

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I don't know if I want the
military doing that, you know, because

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that that that's not their mission,
right, and I understand Lou Alessando kind

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of emphasizes that, Uh, you
know, the military has specific you know,

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goals and missions. So you know, I think we need science doing

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that kind of thing. Different scientific
groups. I mean, even even the

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Galileo Project and stuff, they're they're
going to be looking for things to I'm

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not sure what kind of information they're
going to gather, but uh, like

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the time being, even just collecting
that data is going to be a form

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of communication in the sense until you
know, there is a more profound level

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of contact. Because even let's say
we get three people and we're all say

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there's three US government people and they're
sanctioned, they say, listen, we're

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going to do the C five protocols
and and do the communication, you know,

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and they all get the same message. You know, even at that

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point, how do you validate the
message that you're getting is accurate? Number

319
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one? And number two? And
I hate to say this as as like

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a contact person, but how do
you even how do you trust it?

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Right? How do you know it's
to take it? At face value and

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and and something I always come back
to, even with my own experiences is

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the interpretation of that of the you
know, even just the person interpreting the

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information, is how much of that
is rubbed off from their own subconscious I

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hope that that answers some of your
questions. Now you can kind of beat

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me, James. Actually Nathan has
something a whole topic that he's going to

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want to go into with you on
that very part of how can we trust

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certain things? And it's an interesting
hypothesis he has deb Did you have any

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follow up as to that or was
that it I remember they were talking about.

330
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Yeah. I actually was going to
say, I think that's a very

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interesting perspective to mention that there might
be something electronic in our consciousness is kind

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of what I got from the first
part of that, right. And then

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you know, of course people have
talked about using math and symbols, all

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very interesting ideas, and hopefully you
are right, science will embrace that and

335
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let us know. Yeah, and
I think there's there's there are I don't

336
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:06.720
want to say even claim deast eye. Maybe it's better to say proprietary studies

337
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:11.759
into that. Right now, Well, it's proprietary. That's how these things,

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00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:18.440
that's how the good stuff operates as
proprietary, so that that is it

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is being looked into. And the
scientists that are dealing with that are they

340
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:27.200
have good ideas, but they're they're
just as baffled as us in the UFO

341
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community. Even if they have some
interesting details and hypotheses and and even the

342
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:38.799
science to back up some of what
their hypothesis is that they still don't have

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00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:45.079
the answers to the bigger questions.
They're they're just as But yeah, they

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can see Emi and say, okay, I think there could be something so

345
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materialize here, but they can't.
The biggest and we got to get a

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00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.200
caution in here because she's got a
question for you, but nobody knows how.

347
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The biggest problem i'm right now is
we don't have to contact them.

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We don't know. We can't key
the mic when they you know, when

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Ryan Graves see those those circle inside
a cube thing and say hey, hey

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guys, you know, can you
land on the carrier deck because we just

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want to have a dialogue with you, to speak to them. As far

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as we know there there there may
be, there may be something that we

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just don't know about. And I
have to say I would think that the

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the UFO phenomenon, if it wanted
to, it could clearly facilitate that kind

355
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of communication. Has it happened and
and it's been classified by the NSA.

356
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I have no idea. I have
no idea, and I wouldn't I wouldn't

357
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stake it either way. I wouldn't
say yes or no because I really have

358
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no idea. Yeah, well,
dev thank you for coming on to ask

359
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your question. We're really glad to
have you with us, and I know

360
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you're back in the chat, so
we'll we'll definitely be looking for future questions

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that you got there, and I
appreciate you you spent some time with us.

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00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.160
I'm gonna bring a Kashi on because
you had a question as well.

363
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:21.240
Our esteemed associate producers Hi Hi jings
Hey. So as I was watching all

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kinds of videos and looking into everything
that you're doing, I started doing my

365
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own research. And today I was
telling I was telling the guys and I'm

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like, okay, I'm gonna download
just to just to see what you know,

367
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what this is all about. I'm
gonna download the C five app and

368
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and I want to kind of look
into it because I I don't want to

369
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have an opinion about something that I
haven't even researched. But but at the

370
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same time as I'm as I'm looking
through this and starting again NUBI at this.

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So it looks like once you achieve
that awareness of consciousness, true consciousness,

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right, So it's the concept of
consciousness, not the things that happened,

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but consciousness the fact that I have
a conscience that I am conscious of

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the things around me. Once you
get you know, so you go through

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the C five programs. So once
you have gotten to that point and you've

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been able to experience, is that
something that your mind is just now more

377
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open to things and now you've kind
of made us like like almost your brain

378
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has switched a little bit to be
more of a hub or do you still

379
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consider the C five methodology necessary to
grow that, grow that experience or evolve

380
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:43.039
it. Yeah, that's a great
question, Thank you. And you have

381
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:51.079
a very cool background, by the
way. So yeah, I mean,

382
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I guess there's a few things you
can go over there, because you know,

383
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I just to be honest, there's
gonna be people that are exceptional in

384
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:12.039
these regards for no other reason.
Maybe genetics, predeposition conditioning, so you

385
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.559
know you're going to have your picassos
that for some reason they can just tune

386
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:21.480
in no protocols, know nothing.
You know, people might not like this

387
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:28.279
example, but you know doctor Stephen
Greer, Christopher Bledsoe, Dorothy Ease that

388
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:34.559
there's people that can you know,
but it so happened that those people had

389
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.000
a particular kind of spiritual inclination.
So I don't know if that's telling to

390
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:45.160
one thing or another, but there
you have your there's people that are gonna

391
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:49.599
have an easier time with that.
But generally speaking, for the majority of

392
00:33:49.680 --> 00:34:00.720
people, I think regular mindfulness or
meditation practices are going to help facilitate that.

393
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:06.799
And you know it doesn't have to
be so overtly as sitting meditation,

394
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:10.880
seeded meditation, although I would recommend
that as a stable for people that are

395
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.239
going to endeavor in to see E
five in contact, you know, even

396
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:20.360
project unity j you know he was
saying, how you know, he would

397
00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:25.599
climb and he gets in the zone, so that that zone is you know

398
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:31.440
what in in Travada we'd call mind
body you know, body mind awareness,

399
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:37.800
and that's actually a very powerful state. I would say for facilitating this kind

400
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:43.519
of contact. Even in Grant Cameron's
book, uh there, you know,

401
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.760
uh contact modalities they were taught.
John Burroughs was you know, the Randall

402
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.360
Shrump experiencer, and he had this, you know, pretty crazy experiences and

403
00:34:54.280 --> 00:35:00.599
you know, I think it was
doctor kit Green or somebody else had recommended

404
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:08.840
to him doing combining a type of
crapulia, yoga and vipasana at the same

405
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:14.119
time, you know, combining those
practices because you're basically doing a hemi sync

406
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:21.320
effect, you're balancing the nervous system
and so you know, seeded meditation is

407
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:25.679
one thing, but you know,
you could actually do a contact sequence while

408
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.280
you're doing a workout, you know, while you're doing a job, while

409
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.519
you're doing music, while you're doing
art, and that could be very effective.

410
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.760
But uh, seeded meditation, yeah, I would. I would recommend

411
00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:49.360
that. And what I have found
personally is that, you know, concentration

412
00:35:49.639 --> 00:35:55.039
based exercises do help, although you
don't want to get too locked into concentration,

413
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:05.920
but those I actually found out later
that what they call them in Buddhism

414
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.719
the genas uh, which are concentration
states, but in actually Buddhism, the

415
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:16.639
foundation of all Buddhist magic is the
genas and those are concentration states. So

416
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:22.519
differ different different modes are going to
work for different people. You have the

417
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:29.400
CE five protocols, which for people
listening, the basic CE five protocols are

418
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:36.880
not necessarily necessary for CE five itself, but they're a good guideline. And

419
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.920
the C five protocols would basically be
to do one of these meditations, whether

420
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:50.119
you're using proniama, counting the breath, you know, open awareness, kind

421
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:53.840
of zen. There's all different practices
you can do. But once you do

422
00:36:53.960 --> 00:37:00.400
that practice for any amount of time, you know again I have ten,

423
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:05.880
fifteen, twenty minutes, an hour, and then after you you do the

424
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:08.440
meditation practice, then you do what
it is called CTS, which is coherent

425
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:15.800
thought sequencing, which is what doctor
Stephen Greer would say is a remote viewing.

426
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:22.639
So you're actually going to remote view
UFO intelligence and use a visualized a

427
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:29.280
visualization vector to remote view them basically
back to your location and go back and

428
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.320
forth through that process for another fifteen
or twenty minutes if you can stand it.

429
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.480
So that's the basic CE five protocols
is doing meditation and then doing what

430
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:45.519
it's called CTS, if you can't
remote view, you just use visualization and

431
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:51.800
that will work as well. Did
I answer your question? Yeah? You

432
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.199
did, because first of all,
I just kind of wanted to see if

433
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:59.400
you were if you kind of it
looks like you still follow the C five

434
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:04.800
you know, you know methodology,
and that's something that probably helps you also

435
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.760
evolve. I mean for somebody like
me that has like the attention span on

436
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:13.679
that, I have really bad add
so it's like really hard for me to

437
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.639
meditate, and it's like I need
you know that, that kind of structure.

438
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:22.679
But I was leading with that.
I'm sorry it was I I've never

439
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:28.360
tried it. I I'm looking at
people like you that you know, I

440
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:32.199
mean, you have experience with it, and the fact that you know it

441
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:37.599
really kind of correlates with a lot
of other things I've been looking at,

442
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:42.480
you know, the thought experiments that
Einstein used to do, the Acosa records

443
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.519
and the access to that. It's
like some kind of it's like this web

444
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:51.920
that's all tied together. And that's
why I'm looking at C five because it's

445
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:54.079
all part of the puzzle somehow,
I don't know how, but it's like

446
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:57.760
if you miss one part of the
puzzle. That puzzle is not going to

447
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.000
come together and it's going to look
like you know, yeah, well I

448
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:02.760
was. I was even gonna do
a video a while back called, you

449
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:07.880
know, UFOs and the observer effect, because you have something like that going

450
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:13.480
on almost with CE five and intention
and awareness. But that's that's what I

451
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:17.719
like about the CE five protocols is
that they're great training wheels if you have

452
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:22.079
you know, no formal introduction to
any of this, and you I mean,

453
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:27.480
it just makes sense where you can
do A, B and C and

454
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.920
have D as the result. I
mean, it's simple, it's straightforward.

455
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:36.280
And I would say, if you're
serious about you know, pursuing that,

456
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:44.039
you know, follow the protocols to
the t for a few months and then

457
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:49.760
at that point, you know,
c start experimenting a little, you know,

458
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:54.480
because you know, at that point
you should have some responses and you'll

459
00:39:54.519 --> 00:40:01.400
you'll intuitively kind of devise your own
approach based on your own inclinations that actually

460
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:08.960
that process will probably happen instinctually.
Almost it did for me, where I

461
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:15.320
still mess around with to SEE five
protocols, but like ninety percent of the

462
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:22.119
time I'm doing my own protocols.
That that I just that's where I was

463
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:28.320
leading at some point. You now
you're kind of got that connection. Yeah,

464
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:30.960
yeah, so you do your own
at some point. But anyway,

465
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:37.000
I'm gonna let Nathan and talk.
But for my part, I don't think

466
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:42.239
I've ever had a challenge to me. He said, try it for how

467
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:45.199
long? Six months? A couple
of months? He said, a couple

468
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.119
of months. Yeah, I tried
for a couple of months, and then

469
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:53.639
we're going to regroup. How how
how how often are you going to be

470
00:40:53.679 --> 00:41:00.719
doing it? Well, okay,
now you're talking details. Well, yeah,

471
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:06.039
you can stay the challenge. You
can put the challenge on Twitter so

472
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:07.920
I can give the time back to
Nathan DJ. You put the challenge on

473
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:14.360
Twitter, tell me how often I'm
gonna try it? Anybody else that may

474
00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:17.639
want to participate my Yeah. My
only kind of advice as far as that

475
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.239
is like what you put into it
is what you're going to get out of

476
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:28.559
it. Again, there's there's some
kind of people that they had it's beginner's

477
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.719
luck. I mean I've seen people
where like the first time to have an

478
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:37.760
experience, it's just like incredible.
And then if I know people took them

479
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:42.440
a few months and they were having
very basic kind of experiences. But then

480
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.320
again they they eventually started having pretty
profound ones, but that it was only

481
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:52.079
after they were doing it for months
going out And those were people, some

482
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.800
of them I went out with.
I was going out with them maybe once

483
00:41:54.880 --> 00:42:00.079
or twice a week for oh yeah, I used to do when I in

484
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:04.800
the earlier days, I can say
I was doing this almost every single day

485
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:09.440
for several hours a day. Like
you know, there's like a professional level

486
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:14.320
of C five. I'm up there
for sure, amazing. One last thing

487
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:19.360
and I'll let you go, is
I. I'm not having any expectations except

488
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:23.039
for going through that journey. Because
even just if I can get to meditate

489
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:29.880
and feel like I'm more aware,
that's the win. So I can and

490
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:31.719
according to things I see, it's
like you have to kind of go in

491
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:36.039
kind of in an open mind and
your heart and know, you know,

492
00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:39.719
ill intentions. So that's how I'm
gonna step into it. It's a challenge.

493
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:50.400
See you on Twitter. I'll let
you guys take that over. Ladies

494
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.719
and gentlemen. I was going to
say, I don't think I've had a

495
00:42:52.800 --> 00:43:00.199
coherent thought sequence ever, So Nathan, this revolutionary if I could have the

496
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:08.079
co the sequence with those introductions that
you do on this channel, there's some

497
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:12.119
kind of coherent all going. I
agree, I agree, he's a master

498
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:14.480
at that. So, James,
I guess the question I have for you?

499
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:16.679
Uh, well, I just I'm
sorry, I just want to do

500
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.320
one insert here please. People will
may be curious about CE five here.

501
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:27.119
Of course, there is a free
PDF book, uh that I know somebody

502
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:32.639
in the CE five network created called
C five C five field Workers Guy,

503
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:37.320
and I believe there's a website and
a PDF. When when the show is

504
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:43.039
over, I will send it to
you. I'll send you the link a

505
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:47.800
CE five manual and it's on Amazon
where you can buy the PDF for one

506
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:52.960
dollar or it's it's just free on
the website. Okay, So we'll put

507
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.760
that in the description. Man,
that'd be great. Yeah, there's it's

508
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.039
not just the C five protocols.
There's several different approaches in there, and

509
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:05.159
they guarantee, I mean again,
they guarantee within six times you'll have some

510
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:08.800
kind of experience. Right. But
again it's it's a very useful tool and

511
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:14.400
it's free. Yeah. Well that's
awesome. So what I wanted to ask

512
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.960
you about, I know, You're
familiar with the work of Leslie Kane uh

513
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:22.639
and doctor Jeffrey Mischlove, who I
know you've spoken with. And where I'm

514
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.360
going with this question is what are
your thoughts on the intersection or connection between

515
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:35.280
things like physical mediumship and see five. We think there's some kind of uh,

516
00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:38.199
you know, similar mechanism or pathway
that is occurring. There are we

517
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:44.800
manifesting these objects rather than them,
you know, coming to us, separate

518
00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:46.480
from us? Are they part of
us? And is something? Is that

519
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:52.920
something you've explored. Yeah, I'm
gonna say it's it's We're there's several different

520
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:58.960
phenomena that are going on that are
intersecting, and there's all that is going

521
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:06.920
on. I'm going to say some
of it is literally probably what we would

522
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:14.039
call extraterrestrial intelligence and is literally using
just a super super advanced technology to facilitate

523
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:20.920
these kind of interactions and manifestations like
literally just technology. They've they've mastered the

524
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:27.159
stuff, even the science of consciousness. But some of it is what we

525
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:34.519
would consider spiritual technology. And there
are entities and intelligences that interact in that

526
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:39.639
way. And I've had different experiences
where you there's different qualities like that and

527
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:49.239
again this is beyond what I can
explain. But there's there's certainly different qualities

528
00:45:49.760 --> 00:46:00.400
of interactions where some seems technological and
some seems like spiritual and again metaph physical

529
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:06.119
spiritual, however you want to you
know, phrase that. You know,

530
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.800
even some of the stuff at Skinwalker
Ranch, there's probably a combination of stuff

531
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:15.159
there where some of it may be
technological and some of it maybe what we

532
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:22.039
would consider spiritual or metaphysical. Okay, So and I think that how do

533
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:24.400
you, I mean, how how
do you distinguish between those two? So

534
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:30.440
I guess I'm I think I struggle
with the technology component of your answer,

535
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:37.159
Like, what how do you identify
that it's technological and not spiritual or metaphysical.

536
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.760
Well, I mean there's there's some
interactions where there's there's a light,

537
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:46.760
but there's you can see a craft
like an outline of a physical craft.

538
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:55.360
And you know, things like the
TIC TAC have qualities that I would consider

539
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:04.599
that technological. Yeah, I would
consider them to have technological components where there's

540
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:09.719
some things that you can encounter which
there there seems to be no technological component

541
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:14.599
that Now that doesn't negate the fact
that it's a form of technology that we

542
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:22.519
just don't understand. But again,
some paranormal things, they just don't seem

543
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.000
to be technological in nature in the
way that we understand it. Maybe against

544
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:34.639
spiritual technology, but not technological in
the way that we perceive it as using

545
00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:39.280
tools in that sense. So to
be able to distinguish between that, I

546
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:45.559
mean, you literally just have to
have a ton of experiences and compare them

547
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:49.199
and contrast them and give it your
best. Guess, got it? So

548
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:52.239
that again, I don't think there's
a hard science to that. Maybe somewhere

549
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:59.000
there is a better understanding where you
know, in classified programs they can determine

550
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:07.199
based on you know, different signatures
that something is technological and something's metaphysical.

551
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:12.880
You know, they were studying stuff
at Skinwalker Ranch. We've never seen all

552
00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:15.840
the results of those studies. We
don't know what they garnered from that.

553
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:21.840
And that's just one. You know, OSAP was one program, right,

554
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:27.559
Ramirez was absolutely fascinating with your friend
Jay from Project Unity, who is somebody

555
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:30.840
I'm going to start to pursue,
but I listened today. Do you want

556
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:35.360
to talk about Johnny come lately?
This interview was probably like two months ago

557
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:37.840
or whatever. The hell it was, and I just listened. I'm not

558
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:43.719
even finished with it. But Ramirez
is fascinating, and he is offering us

559
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:47.519
in a window into things that Heretofore, I can't say we didn't have a

560
00:48:47.559 --> 00:48:51.960
window into some but because by virtue
of the fact, we have Lou Alizondo.

561
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:57.239
But now you're having a guy who's
a GS fifteen retired who's backing up

562
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:00.079
a lot of the things that Lou
said and expanding on other areas that Lou

563
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:05.599
hasn't really gone into. And that
guy's been authenticated. I've talked to somebody

564
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:09.280
in d O d who who ran
his social Security number that he got from

565
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:14.800
him, and he's who he says
he is. Yeah, we're going to

566
00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:17.719
bring on somebody else for you,
James. We have Stephen Greer's flair.

567
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:27.000
I would love to add. Yeah, Greers Flair our our chief show and

568
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:32.800
humorous antagonist. Greers Flair Man,
James, I can hear you. Are

569
00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:38.599
you at Vero Beach, Florida?
Over there? No, I'm actually in

570
00:49:38.679 --> 00:49:50.679
California. You know, I'm ready
to party. All right, I've got

571
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:53.239
a question for you. It's about
it's about alien abduction. Since we're on

572
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:59.440
that topic, anyway. Sure,
so that now that the mask mandates are

573
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.320
up, you know, they're they're
they're going, we got those mask mandates,

574
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:07.519
and do you think that might be
abduct the aliens may be abducting the

575
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:16.079
wrong people. I don't know.
I can't think that that's the reason for

576
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:22.199
disclosure, because the wrong people are
getting taken. And you know that's a

577
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:27.119
big deal because they can't they can't
tell who the real person is that you're

578
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.800
saying, right, they can't tell
the difference. Yeah, they're like,

579
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:32.800
oh is that James? No stj
So if this could just be causing a

580
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.639
lot of they're going to go after
XO academian. They're gonna get Nathan,

581
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:43.280
total chaos. Do you know what
the actual you know, we can consider

582
00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:50.159
them alien intelligence. They they seem
to have. They can know where you

583
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:55.119
are. I think I can't wear
a disguise like maybe the bed or I

584
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:59.320
think maybe like a you know,
a gray alien mask, you know what

585
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:08.239
I mean? Yeah, sorry,
that's too bad. She looks like one

586
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:14.480
of them that you know we left
factory. They're gonna find you anyways.

587
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:16.679
You just die. Mom. In
his theory, I mean, James,

588
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:20.760
he thought that he could really disguise
himself. He doesn't want to do with

589
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:24.519
Travis Walton. He's gonna be suffocating. He's naked. We're gonna find it.

590
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:32.280
Put my mask on. I'm ready. I'm ready sleep with my you

591
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.519
know, my sick. I can
bribe him. Got my lollipop. Yes,

592
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.719
you should have a dowry you know, actually I owe uh, I

593
00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:45.320
owe Andy mcgrill and a dowry for
Nathan. But yeah, you should definitely

594
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.360
have some money in sort of a
tray in the side of your bed because

595
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:51.239
you never know, I mean a
big coiner. Yeah, you never know

596
00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:58.400
when you're gonna lose a tooth.
Yeah right, I love it, especially

597
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:00.800
if you're mistake with the bucks,
could be all of it right there.

598
00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:05.320
Oh yeah, yeah, I don't
know. That might be why they don't

599
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:09.679
take me. I've hit myself so
many times. We would never have known

600
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:16.480
that that that that's happened. So
gre Flair, grears Flair, do you

601
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:20.239
have anything else before we get you
out of here or throw you out here?

602
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.079
That's it. I'm good. That
was my theory. All right.

603
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:31.960
The mask is not going to prevent
abduction, Okay, all right, thank

604
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:36.079
you, Stephen Greers Flair, Thank
you, very much. Brother, We'll

605
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:42.519
talk to you incredible. I love
I. Yeah, James, I had

606
00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:45.719
a very similar question. So I'm
glad that that that we got that out

607
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:50.199
of the way. Uh. And
also Akashi said, there's a couple of

608
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:52.679
questions from the audience. Kashi,
could you throw up the ones that you

609
00:52:52.679 --> 00:53:00.440
would like James to consider or Nathan. Yeah, I'll let her hunt that

610
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:05.480
down. Let me ask you a
question James from for some recent take.

611
00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:08.960
So, I know you've been keeping
up with doctor Dana Pasolka and that she's

612
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:12.000
been coming back on the scene.
We're gonna have her on the show on

613
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:16.639
Monday next week, so looking forward
to that chat with her. She recently

614
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:24.039
commented about the Collins Elite and that
she didn't think that it was necessarily an

615
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:30.679
actual thing, but she was surprised
to find the number of people within,

616
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:35.840
Uh, you know the Pentagon or
you know the powerful circles who who are

617
00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:43.039
you know, very devout religious Christian
believers. What is your your take on

618
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:46.239
that? Do you think that that
it does that kind of add additional weight

619
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:52.599
to this concept from Elizondo that you
know, these folks are really pushing hard

620
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:57.599
back against studying that this phenomenon.
Further, how do you kind of hear

621
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:04.199
that from her? I mean,
just I have to go based on my

622
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:07.400
my own research, and and what
I found is that there are groups like

623
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:15.880
that and and and some of them
are competing. So there's some that are

624
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:22.239
just religious fundamentalists, and there's some
that are religious fundamentalists eschatologists, and and

625
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:28.800
and the they like legitimately not like
oh kind of like sort of, And

626
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:37.320
these stories go back and and people
that have penetrated deep into this world,

627
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:43.599
you know, sometimes to their detriment, have encountered that. And it's I

628
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:50.280
don't I don't think that keeps coming
up for no reason. You know,

629
00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:53.800
even you know, Christopher Blood so
I don't know if he said it,

630
00:54:53.840 --> 00:55:00.000
but his son has Ryan Blood so
on on the podcast is very outspoken about

631
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:07.719
out you know, these different secret
societies in the Pentagon, and I'm convinced

632
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:14.000
that they exist. They may not
be in an organized matter where they're having

633
00:55:14.119 --> 00:55:16.239
meetings saying listen, guys, this
is what they have we have to do.

634
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:22.639
But just by them having those beliefs
and acting on them and and trying

635
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:28.239
to pursue their agendas and a belief
that that might interfere with the process,

636
00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:32.400
and if they have substantial power and
influence, that's going to affect the results

637
00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:37.000
of of what's going on. And
I think that this these these people have

638
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:45.920
existed from the beginning of the entire
disclosure process. Again, you go back

639
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:50.480
and doctor Stephen Greers is talking about
the Majestic twelve group, but he's talking

640
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:57.480
about these eschatologists that he encountered,
that that believe that they're going to bring

641
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:01.760
forth the Second Coming by doing what
they're doing, and parsonally involved with this

642
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:09.639
subject. So I think that there
are legitimate groups like that. I don't

643
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:14.239
know how well organized there are,
but they there seems to be several groups

644
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:21.159
like that that are competing with each
other well, and I kind of think

645
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:29.920
it's just a free for all,
right, And again there's probably atheist groups.

646
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:34.639
I know, Yeah, I've heard. I've heard a lot of stories,

647
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:39.000
and based on the patterns of all
that, I think that there's there

648
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:45.039
are several groups like that that are
competing and I'm sure that they want their

649
00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:51.559
narrative to win. So that's probably
part of what's going on too. You

650
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:54.920
know, you have the competing narratives
that are going to facilitate what they believe

651
00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:00.519
is what they believe is the right
thing to do, because I don't think

652
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:04.960
they're you know, they're going out
there. I mean I think they actually

653
00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:12.159
literally believe, you know, some
of these things, and they're acting on

654
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:16.880
that, and you know if that
might not always be in our best interests,

655
00:57:16.960 --> 00:57:22.440
right, I mean, they could
be making decisions that influence us,

656
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:28.199
all based on some kind of idea
we would consider wacky or unfounded. Yeah,

657
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:30.719
I'd actually like to get Nathan,
I'd like to get your take if

658
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:35.360
you're surprised, And in addition to
that, what's your take on it is

659
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:38.360
kind of just like what you asked
James. Yeah, so I think it's

660
00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:43.400
understandable how how it's an ideology that
took hold. So if you think about

661
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:47.760
when the phenomenon started to really be
encountered by the government, at least the

662
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:53.159
accounts that we're most familiar with after
we started testing the nukes and and Roswell

663
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:55.800
course comes to mind. You know, that was a time period in our

664
00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:01.679
country's history when Christianity was so widely
held, like it was a very deeply

665
00:58:01.719 --> 00:58:07.639
held belief within you know, the
majority of the country. Most people went

666
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.920
to church as people grew up into
church. There were different denominational beliefs,

667
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:15.800
but the kind of fabric of society
was very Christian in nature. So encountering

668
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:21.079
a downed craft or beings, you
know, you're going to view that entire

669
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:27.760
encounter through that kind of religious lens. I guess what surprises me about that

670
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.639
is that that was a long time
ago, so you know, as time

671
00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:37.559
has moved on since then, there
surely have been different actors and players involved

672
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:43.400
with the phenomenon who are bringing their
own sort of new religious or non religious

673
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:46.679
perspectives to play as they interact with
whatever this happens to be. And James,

674
00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:50.559
you know, you just hinted at
that there could be very very much

675
00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:54.719
competing factions within the government of those
who have access, those who buy into

676
00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:59.800
this sort of end of the world
cult, if you will, and those

677
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:05.239
who who are pursuing it purely on
sort of scientific grounds and merit, you

678
00:59:05.239 --> 00:59:08.519
know, And you kind of see
that that faction represented really well through the

679
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:13.280
Galileo Project, and I think,
quite frankly through what lou and Chris are

680
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:17.559
advocating for an open, transparent study
of whatever this happens to be, kind

681
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:22.239
of reducing the stove piping that has
occurred, and just sharing information so we

682
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:25.840
can we can master this or get
on top of this before our adversaries might

683
00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:30.519
be able to do so. As
far as the ideology itself, and I

684
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:34.159
want to talk to that for a
second. The end of the world,

685
00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:37.039
you know sort of when he says
eschatology we're talking about is it's the study

686
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:43.400
of the end of the world basically, and in the Book of Revelation in

687
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.440
the Bible. You know that Christians
throughout throughout history have read that book and

688
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:52.440
have kind of tried to extract extract
from that book, uh you know,

689
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:57.519
meaning or prophecies or uh, you
know, sort of breadcrumbs that that they

690
00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:01.440
can overlay on their own time and
say this, we're actually living in the

691
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:07.280
end time that this book is speaking
about, so you know, the return

692
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:10.119
of Christ is near, the end
of the world is near, and and

693
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:14.880
we're living in that actual time now. There are lots of different flavors of

694
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.599
this belief, and I won't go
into all of those, but the short

695
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:22.280
of it is, if they kind
of hold this worldview, and if they've

696
01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:27.800
interacted with the phenomenon and what it
purportedly can do, then I think they're

697
01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:34.800
taking these concepts and saying, we
actually now have the tools and the signs

698
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:39.800
to be able to accelerate the return
that is heralded in the Book of Revelation,

699
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:43.719
and so they want to be able
to do that. It's a very

700
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.920
when when you kind of step back
from that, it's a very seductive and

701
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:52.960
powerful kind of narrative. So those
in my opinion who've latched onto this way

702
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:55.719
of thinking, it's a bit of
a power trip to think that like they

703
01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:02.280
can kind of hold the reins on
this thing and bring about usher in the

704
01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:07.079
end of the world, as as
propheside in this book. I think it's

705
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:13.920
I think it's historically very very shallow. I mean, and I say that

706
01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:19.400
because every generation has basically had its
profits or it's it's interpreters who've looked at

707
01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:22.000
that book and done the exact same
thing. You know, they looked at

708
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:23.199
that book and said, oh,
you know in the eighteen hundreds, you

709
01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:28.000
know, oh this is this is
you know, Abraham Lincoln is the Antichrist,

710
01:01:28.039 --> 01:01:30.000
and you know, like this is
all going to be over after such

711
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:31.639
and such. So this has happened
over and over and over again. And

712
01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:36.639
any student of history who looks at
that will tell you like, it's never

713
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.360
actually come to fruition. And so, you know, I look at that

714
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:44.599
and look at that repetitive, repetitive
sort of cycle, and I say,

715
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:49.679
there's not a lot to taking that
particular position. But I guess when it

716
01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:52.079
comes to this one topic, you
only have to be right once right,

717
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:57.519
so you only you know, the
end of the world will in fact happen

718
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.880
at some point. At least in
mylogical sense, we know that the end

719
01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:05.519
of our you know, our own
galaxy is going to you know, end

720
01:02:05.559 --> 01:02:07.719
at some point, So it will
happen one day. You know. How

721
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:10.679
close are we to that that moment? I don't know, But it does

722
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:17.000
bother me that there are those empower
and positions of influence who seem to have

723
01:02:17.079 --> 01:02:22.719
adopted that belief system for two reasons. One they're either deluded and and and

724
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:29.360
are ill informed and just you know, laying their own theological preconceptions onto whatever

725
01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:32.599
this happens to be or and this
is the worst, the worst one.

726
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:37.639
Or they actually have enough knowledge about
something that we don't have to where it

727
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:44.360
brings actual credibility to what to to
to to buttressing their their theology and on

728
01:02:44.360 --> 01:02:47.480
that point. I'm actually that that
that really concerns me when I hear things

729
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:52.679
from Diana Pasoka where she's saying,
you know, there she encounters a lot

730
01:02:52.719 --> 01:02:58.480
of people who've become more fervently religious
after they've studied this, uh, you

731
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:01.159
know Tyler she made today, you
know, and she mentioned in her book

732
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:06.639
American Cosmic, she talks about Tyler, who we all know is as somebody

733
01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:12.760
else, but he converted to Catholicism
after traveling with her to the Vatican,

734
01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:16.920
and he's, you know, supposedly
been very closely connected to the phenomenon.

735
01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:22.119
So that those things are a little
troubling to me that that there, you

736
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:23.880
know, there really might be some
meat there, There could be a there

737
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:28.159
there. In other words, well, so we talked about is that you

738
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:31.519
read a lot of people will reevaluate
their life after some sort of a close

739
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:37.119
contact. My boss, my ex
boss in the position before now I was

740
01:03:37.159 --> 01:03:42.039
a very very devoutly Catholic man,
but he's also a very scientific man as

741
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:45.159
well. And he told me at
the outset when I told him I was

742
01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:51.079
interested in delving into this topic with
my show and all that which we start

743
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:53.519
doing, he said, people that
are religious are going to have an issue

744
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:58.320
with this as far as the Pentagon
is concerned. I don't I know guys

745
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.480
and gals that have worked there.
I've never there, but I would imagine

746
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:04.840
that if there were a vocal majority
would be the religious one. It would

747
01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:10.920
not be the anti religious one that
would be a vocal or a majority.

748
01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:15.280
It's just not something that would win
you friends in an organization like that.

749
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:17.280
Well, I did want to ask
you that question to you, Jay,

750
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:21.880
so in your experience within the Air
Force and the military generally, I mean,

751
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:27.320
I'm under the impression that, you
know, kind of a Christian worldview

752
01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:30.519
is kind of the predominant worldview within
people who are in the military, just

753
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:34.079
broadly. But is that kind of
is that one? Is that true?

754
01:04:34.119 --> 01:04:36.400
Is that a valid assumption? In
two? Is it? Is it overt

755
01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:42.199
like it? Is it pretty prevalent
within the culture that in the in the

756
01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:47.039
military. I would say generally yes, But I also have to suffix that

757
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:53.880
with the fact that most of the
last decade plus of my career was in

758
01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:59.159
Air Force Special Operations and that was
very white, very Christian, very conservative,

759
01:04:59.320 --> 01:05:01.880
those street things, and if you
were outside of that norm, then

760
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:08.639
you were sort of an outlier.
So I was ascribing though what you said

761
01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:12.599
is kind of my experience a little
bit, and trying to project that that

762
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.719
I couldn't envision the Pentagon being like
that, but that might also not be

763
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.599
be accurate. But yeah, they
were the vocal majority, and if you

764
01:05:19.719 --> 01:05:25.280
weren't some of that, then you
were the not very vocal minority. But

765
01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:29.920
let's bring on. So we got
a question for James. We'll do what

766
01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:32.840
I'd like to do. This is
from my brother, Stuart Mullins, Chris's

767
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:36.719
husband, my new friend, and
what we'd like to do is do a

768
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:42.239
C five question. But James,
I would feel that we didn't do it

769
01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:45.559
justice if we didn't really get into
what your experiences have been. So after

770
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:48.800
this one, I'd like to go
there. But please let's entertain Stewart's question.

771
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:54.519
Yeah, okay, I'll ask it
if you want a question for Dan

772
01:05:54.639 --> 01:06:01.000
please, not a problem at all. So what role does local location play?

773
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:05.119
And see five? Does the distance
from a city or lights or people

774
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:15.119
make a big difference noise pollution?
Uh? Generally speaking, I would encourage

775
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:23.400
that people get into uh, you
know, wherever is going to be easiest

776
01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:28.440
for them to just do it,
right? You know, don't make it

777
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:31.760
where like you're you feel like,
oh, I have to wait, you

778
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:35.719
know, next month when I can
get out to this you know, quiet

779
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:41.760
location to do it. I've had
experiences in the middle of New York City,

780
01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:48.400
in Midtown Manhattan that were profound on
several occasions. So I mean,

781
01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:53.760
it doesn't you know, you know, if you're in LA and the sky

782
01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:57.719
is really hazy, there's still people
over there doing some you know, the

783
01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:01.960
This is the UFO Summoners. I
believe George Knapp had them on. They

784
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:05.960
are out over there in California and
even in those hazy skies are having great

785
01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:12.960
experiences. So while it does play
a role, I don't make that an

786
01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:17.760
excuse for yourself and don't make that
a priority unless you're going out and you're

787
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:24.360
doing like a you know, if
you're doing a field work investigation, you're

788
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:28.159
going to collect data, You're going
to set up some cameras. Yeah,

789
01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:32.159
get into a location where that's gonna, you know, be ideal. But

790
01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:34.679
if you're just trying to do it
to see if it works, or you're

791
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:39.239
just to do it as a you
know, something that you're trying to learn

792
01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:43.280
or practice or even do on a
regular basis. Don't let that hold you

793
01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:49.639
back. So so James, like, even like a burned out building in

794
01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:54.679
the South Bronx, you know,
with people doing crack all around you,

795
01:07:54.800 --> 01:07:58.960
that would still be an appropriate place. You could still do it there and

796
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:02.599
it will still work. Yeah,
I mean again, I'm just kidding,

797
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:06.480
no, but I really think of
New Jack City, you know that.

798
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:12.760
Yeah, I mean again. The
part, the bigger part of that is

799
01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:19.159
how that that environment affects you mostly
rather than oh, the phenomenon is not

800
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:26.840
going to come here and interact because
you know, I can't say I know

801
01:08:26.880 --> 01:08:30.560
their psychology, but I don't know
how judgmental they are. Although like again,

802
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:35.760
if sometimes if you have like a
camera and you're just like waiting,

803
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:39.640
like, oh, I'm going to
take a picture of this interaction, it's

804
01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:45.239
going to totally mess up your mojo. It's I mean again, And and

805
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:49.520
you have to come to question of
is that part of your own mind where

806
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:55.720
if that is, that's your intention
and your priority, and it's interacting with

807
01:08:55.800 --> 01:09:01.199
the actual experience of just being there
with new expectation and being involved in the

808
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:05.840
process, rather than like now you're
thinking you're waiting and that kind of thing

809
01:09:05.920 --> 01:09:12.319
is a distraction. So there's there's
a few parts of that equation. Are

810
01:09:12.359 --> 01:09:15.760
there places that can magnify the experience
though, like other places in the world

811
01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:20.479
that you think have a donut baby? Yeah? Yeah, I mean yeah,

812
01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:26.800
So that that's that is. I
think that's something that's true where there's

813
01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:32.880
locations where there's higher contact. But
I don't want to phrase this the wrong

814
01:09:32.920 --> 01:09:39.279
way, but just as important location
as there's there's certain people that just they

815
01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:43.880
have an affinity to the contact where
it doesn't matter where you are. If

816
01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:46.520
you were with Chris bloodsoe, you
might experience something kind of thing. And

817
01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:51.840
I'm not even kidding about that.
You know, again, Stephen Greer in

818
01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:56.960
the early days, I can't say
much for now, but in the early

819
01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:00.800
nineties, you know, and I
know people that were with him in many

820
01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:06.359
occasions he was a UFO magnet.
And you're talking, you know, not

821
01:10:06.520 --> 01:10:13.239
just orbs of light. Sometimes what
seemed to be physical spacecraft for lack of

822
01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:17.600
a better word, always seemed to
be around wherever he was or when you

823
01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:20.880
went to hang out with him,
when you went back home, there'd be

824
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:28.840
residual psychic effects both with the UFO
phenomenon, and you know, individual subjective

825
01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:33.640
experience. So those those kind of
things exist. So location, yeah,

826
01:10:33.920 --> 01:10:41.079
is one thing. People are another. But more importantly for everybody listening,

827
01:10:41.199 --> 01:10:45.800
your own conditioning is going to be
your main concern priority. So it's not

828
01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:50.319
the three l's of real estate,
it's just one L out of other elements.

829
01:10:50.520 --> 01:10:54.399
Let's talk about your experiences, James, because I want to get I

830
01:10:54.439 --> 01:10:56.920
want to get down to the nitty
gritty and when I have that much time

831
01:10:56.920 --> 01:11:01.479
with you. So we got about
nineteen minutes, so my brun tell us

832
01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:04.880
what went down? Man? Well, I mean, do you have any

833
01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:09.039
specific questions for me to go to
the whole because I've told I've told the

834
01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:11.800
story a few times. I mean, if you want to just here on

835
01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:15.359
your channel, I can tell you
the story and kind of like a chronological

836
01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:17.359
order, or if you have specific
questions, that's fine. No, I

837
01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:21.239
mean just sort of a even one
anecdote, right, like one that really

838
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:28.239
stuck with you the most, you
know, maybe that there's again it's yeah,

839
01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:32.319
it's not just well and and again
I've I've told stories of all these

840
01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:38.479
different encounters that are kind of like
the highlights. But you know, I've

841
01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:43.920
been doing contact work. I've for
for this whole time. So I've I've

842
01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:48.359
had hundreds of not in the thousands
of encounters by now wow, you know,

843
01:11:49.880 --> 01:11:54.600
yeah, literally, And I'm not
I'm not exaggerating, and I don't

844
01:11:54.760 --> 01:12:00.159
I don't generally speak like that because
you know, it's kind of comes off

845
01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:04.439
the wrong way. But it's just
as a matter of fact, you know,

846
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:09.479
there's I'm not the only one.
There's again, Chris Bledsoe is always

847
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:15.359
out there having encounters. So there's
there's plenty of people that are having regular

848
01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:20.680
encounters. So did you have when
the when the book came out the skin

849
01:12:20.760 --> 01:12:27.920
Walkers at the Pentagon and it proposed
this hitchhiker or contagion hypothesis? Have you

850
01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:30.800
experienced that at all? Or anyone
close to you experience that at all?

851
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:33.840
After the experiences that you've had,
has there been some kind of you know,

852
01:12:34.119 --> 01:12:39.720
contact effect. Yeah, after effects
are a major part of the UFO

853
01:12:39.800 --> 01:12:45.520
phenomenon. But and I know what
Diana was talking about too when she was

854
01:12:45.560 --> 01:12:49.159
recently speaking about it. She knows
scientists that studied that, and so do

855
01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:55.119
I. And there were real effects
that were in some cases very negative.

856
01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:59.960
Uh. But again, as just
as I mentioned, you know, there

857
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:05.399
there's also the same effect but positive. And again you know, I know,

858
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:13.079
Nathan, you have like a religious
background, you can even go into

859
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:18.960
something like shock depot or transmission and
those kind of things, and that's similar

860
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:25.159
phenomenon. And again I don't like
the idea of so much of gurus and

861
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:29.159
and that kind of thing. But
you know, there's a thing again I

862
01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:32.399
mentioned with Stephen Greer, there are
people that would encounter him and hang out

863
01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:34.800
with him for a while and go
out and do some C five with him

864
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:39.760
and then go back and there would
be residual effects for a while. Same

865
01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:44.119
with Dorothy Eazat, the same thing
was reported people would come by and visit

866
01:13:44.199 --> 01:13:49.760
her and then come back to their
homes and have spiritual experiences UFO encounters.

867
01:13:50.840 --> 01:13:59.159
So in that regard the hitchhiker thing, there's it's not just negative like that

868
01:13:59.199 --> 01:14:03.399
they reported from skin Walker, and
I believe what they reported was true.

869
01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:09.039
I don't think that they're they're just
trying to spin it in a negative way.

870
01:14:09.199 --> 01:14:13.199
I know people that did the science
there and those things that they said

871
01:14:13.279 --> 01:14:18.119
did happen, so that they're not
trying to just spin that in a way

872
01:14:18.159 --> 01:14:23.359
for a kind of agenda. What
they said happened, uh, and it's

873
01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:28.399
it's it's true. But what isn't
highlighted there is what they didn't experience,

874
01:14:29.640 --> 01:14:34.680
at least over there was that there's
there's the same thing where you can have

875
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:40.800
a healing experience in the UFO phenomenon, you know, and that's a residual

876
01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:45.000
after effect. So there's that's a
that's part of a much bigger conversation,

877
01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:53.239
and the hitchhikers thing is just the
beginning of the conversation. Right looking back

878
01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:59.640
through history of different religions and and
kind of how religions have spun out from

879
01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:02.720
exper sperience, you know, that
is very similar in many ways to experiences

880
01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:10.039
that we're hearing about with the phenomenon. Does it strike you that there seems

881
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:15.279
to be a kind of like recursive
selection happening, Like like it's not like

882
01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:17.960
everyone's having this experience, you know, it's it's not that every and people

883
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:20.880
who may genuinely want to have an
experience. I mean, there are millions

884
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:26.319
of people around the world who consider
themselves to be devout believers of X Y

885
01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:30.920
Z, and I don't think that
most of them are having, you know,

886
01:15:30.039 --> 01:15:34.479
kind of similar experiences. But there
are those within those pockets of belief

887
01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:42.640
who have very profound, significant,
dramatic experiences that end up kind of creating

888
01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:48.640
or spinning out sort of new follower
groups, new ways of trying to recreate

889
01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:56.119
the experience that that they're particular leader
or profit or whatever explained or tried to

890
01:15:56.239 --> 01:16:00.359
explain to their followers. It almost
seems as if we're in a Yeah,

891
01:16:00.399 --> 01:16:04.640
you know, the Earth is some
kind of like the sphere of information that

892
01:16:04.760 --> 01:16:12.600
is like selecting people throughout history to
be representatives or contact experiencers, and then

893
01:16:12.640 --> 01:16:16.199
the rest of us are kind of
latching onto these nodes of of interaction,

894
01:16:16.359 --> 01:16:20.600
and then we're building stuff around them, like we're kind of elevating that one

895
01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:25.560
thing that they had and trying to
build structure and systems and you know,

896
01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:30.000
organizations around them, things that we
now call religion or other systems. What

897
01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:36.920
do you think about that take on
it, oh Man, human nature?

898
01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:45.680
Yeah, I canna say humanity.
Yeah, I mean I think that that

899
01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:50.720
everybody has the potential if they want
to to have those kind of experiences.

900
01:16:51.279 --> 01:16:54.840
But I take issue with that.
I mean, I don't mean to be

901
01:16:55.119 --> 01:16:57.239
you know, I'm not trying to
push it back in a net negative way.

902
01:16:57.319 --> 01:17:00.000
But I come from a very you
know, I come from a background

903
01:17:00.079 --> 01:17:01.880
that is religious. I'm not religious
anymore, but you know when I hear

904
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:05.520
bledsoe, Ryan, let let's talk
about you know, his dad and his

905
01:17:05.600 --> 01:17:10.439
dad's experiences. And it comes across
as like, you know, you just

906
01:17:10.479 --> 01:17:13.760
have to you just have to believe
x y z. You just have to

907
01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:16.439
do x y z and then you're
going to have an experience. It's very

908
01:17:16.439 --> 01:17:21.359
formulaic, and that is not true. I don't I really don't believe that

909
01:17:21.399 --> 01:17:27.239
to be true because because he's explaining
his experience and process, right, so

910
01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:34.319
what my process or you know,
DJ's process is going to be completely different.

911
01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:40.159
They've some of these people have found
it, you know, Dorothy Easat,

912
01:17:43.079 --> 01:17:45.880
I think that. I mean,
again, there's this thing where it

913
01:17:45.920 --> 01:17:49.279
comes down to oh, the you
know, the genetics or the quode nucleus

914
01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:55.399
and and that kind of thing.
But I don't believe it's just limited to

915
01:17:55.439 --> 01:18:00.800
that, because I've seen people come
from not really having any experiences to having

916
01:18:00.800 --> 01:18:04.960
profound experiences when they actually tried and
they went about it. You know,

917
01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:12.199
but again, what's your threshold?
How serious are you're taking it? You

918
01:18:12.239 --> 01:18:15.239
may think you really want it.
But here, like here's the thing.

919
01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:17.920
And this is gonna sound dumb,
really, but like I can say I

920
01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:21.880
want a Mercedes, right and it's
like a cool fantasy and I have it

921
01:18:21.920 --> 01:18:30.279
in my head and I can imagine
driving this Mercedes. But there's there's there's

922
01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:33.119
people who who who want something,
and there's people who really want something,

923
01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:40.039
and there's people who are just gonna
do whatever it takes and and and they're

924
01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:43.520
just gonna get the Mercedes, like
they don't give a crap how They're gonna

925
01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:45.960
just do it. And once they
have it, they have it, you

926
01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:54.479
know. So I think there's a
kind of an attitude of that where you

927
01:18:54.479 --> 01:19:00.640
know, again once you have and
again I can this is just thinking on

928
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:04.479
it. I can't say this is
a fact. I'm just thinking out loud

929
01:19:04.479 --> 01:19:12.239
here. I think that if I
don't think that there's there's people that just

930
01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:19.720
can't it's impossible for them to have
any of these type of experiences. I

931
01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:24.840
just don't think that's the case necessarily. Have you have you ever read the

932
01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:29.479
book The Outliers? No, okay, you know that's the book by by

933
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:34.880
Malcolm Gladwell, And yeah, so
I mean you know they were even saying

934
01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:40.000
like, the people that are talented
are are not even the people who end

935
01:19:40.079 --> 01:19:45.680
up being like the top because they
get lazy and the people who just put

936
01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:48.920
in the damn work. You know, Michael Jordan has kicked off his the

937
01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:55.720
high school team. Randy Moss and
Jerry Rice are actually a really good example.

938
01:19:55.800 --> 01:19:59.680
Randy Moss is one of the most
talented physical receivers we've ever seen.

939
01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:03.359
Jared Rice had the better production,
right the ten thousand Hours concept, right,

940
01:20:03.640 --> 01:20:06.479
yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
from that's from the Outliers. So

941
01:20:06.840 --> 01:20:13.479
again, I mean, you know, and he he, Michael Jordan's arguably

942
01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:15.159
one of the greatest players. And
I'm not even like a sports person,

943
01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:17.720
but I just remember that from that
was an example that they used in the

944
01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:29.079
book. So I don't think that
there's people that are physically incapable of having

945
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:33.359
those experiences. However, there are
people that seem to just like in my

946
01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:38.319
case, I didn't. It's not
like I was like a small child and

947
01:20:38.399 --> 01:20:43.520
I was like, please let this
shit happened to me and just f my

948
01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:48.039
life up, you know, for
better or worse. Right, I just

949
01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:54.560
you know, And again, there's
different frameworks to look at. That is

950
01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:58.880
this is it karmic, is it
have to do? Is it genetic?

951
01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:03.560
Is it a combination of those?
Is does your karma have cause and effect

952
01:21:03.560 --> 01:21:06.640
and cause your genetics? You know, again, there's you can bring this

953
01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:13.159
into a whole spiritual metaphysical thing or
you know, did I did I before

954
01:21:13.199 --> 01:21:15.479
I incarnated into this world? Did
I choose that this was going to be

955
01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:21.279
my path kind of thing? You
know, like Dolores Cannon territory or even

956
01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:30.039
you know, New Age before that. So my my belief is that I

957
01:21:30.079 --> 01:21:35.720
don't think that there are people who
are physically incapable of having such experiences.

958
01:21:39.159 --> 01:21:44.760
But I mean, I don't you
know, know that necessarily everybody really wants

959
01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:47.680
to be thrown into that, right, and it may be no way to

960
01:21:47.720 --> 01:21:50.359
empirically test it, you know,
and if they don't want it, it

961
01:21:50.399 --> 01:21:55.359
ain't gonna happen. Well, maybe
it will actually, yeah, I mean

962
01:21:55.399 --> 01:22:00.840
there's people, yeah, I mean
there's people who who definitely don't don't want

963
01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:06.680
to have abductions. And abductions had
occurred, even though the majority of them

964
01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:15.319
after the fact come out saying that
they somehow positively transformed them. And that's

965
01:22:15.319 --> 01:22:18.720
a lot of what John max Work
brought forward and people like you know,

966
01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:23.720
Ray Hernandez and or I can't say
Edgar Mitchell, but the Eddar Mitchell Foundation,

967
01:22:24.520 --> 01:22:30.079
which was the Free Organization or now
c CRI I the Conscious Contact Research

968
01:22:30.159 --> 01:22:34.760
Institute. With Ray Hernandez, he's
the guy maybe you want to have on

969
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:42.399
he's going to be releasing I believe
volumes two and three. Ray Hernandez.

970
01:22:43.159 --> 01:22:46.880
Yeah, Ray Hernandez, I can
put you in touch with him, familiar

971
01:22:46.920 --> 01:22:50.880
with his experience. It's fascinating,
it's incredible. And but you know,

972
01:22:51.199 --> 01:22:56.760
just as incredible as is the work
that that he's doing with Rudy Shields and

973
01:22:56.760 --> 01:23:02.640
and all these other people. Doctor
Joseph Burkes wrote a chapter. I believe

974
01:23:02.840 --> 01:23:06.520
that he has written another chapter that's
coming out in a new volume. You

975
01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:14.359
know, John Alexander wrote wrote a
chapter for the Beyond. UFO's massive.

976
01:23:14.960 --> 01:23:18.000
It's like a text, it's like
a university textbook. It's massive, and

977
01:23:18.079 --> 01:23:23.800
they're coming out. They had to
come out with the new volumes. They

978
01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:28.760
actually split it up into separate volumes
because it was just like so massive that

979
01:23:28.840 --> 01:23:30.000
you know, they're like, okay, let's give people like two or three

980
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:34.000
hundred pages at a time instead of
like eight hundred and nine hundred page volumes.

981
01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:40.000
I have a question for Nathan.
Then we actually have another question for

982
01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:45.279
James. That'll probably get the last
question. But Nathan, speaking of CCR,

983
01:23:45.720 --> 01:23:49.479
do you see a bad moon rising? Come on, James, you're

984
01:23:49.520 --> 01:23:56.199
supposed to smile. It was in
the contract. Yeah, writer, he

985
01:23:56.239 --> 01:24:00.439
didn't get his M and ms.
That was the pieces. Now there we

986
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:09.319
go. Do you see a religiosity
in the way that we're interacting on UFO

987
01:24:09.439 --> 01:24:14.399
Twitter right now? Do you do
you have a sense that we're becoming or

988
01:24:14.439 --> 01:24:18.359
a burgeoning religion of some sort.
Yeah, well, I think that the

989
01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:23.479
the the ingredients are certainly there.
Whether or not it comes to fruition,

990
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:27.479
it remains to be seen because in
some ways, I think these things take,

991
01:24:27.960 --> 01:24:31.680
you know, generations to really transform. So I don't know that we

992
01:24:31.680 --> 01:24:38.000
would necessarily see that come to fruition
in our short period of time, but

993
01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:40.760
I could see it happening, you
know, over a long period of time,

994
01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:48.199
mainly if we start getting to a
place where there is a way that

995
01:24:48.239 --> 01:24:54.159
we're saying, look, you can
experience the phenomenon through doing X Y Z.

996
01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:57.640
Essentially, I'm gonna use it a
word for that, A ritual you

997
01:24:57.680 --> 01:25:00.920
know. So if there's a ritual
that you can do to have an experience,

998
01:25:01.640 --> 01:25:04.560
people will do it. You know, they will adopt the ritual and

999
01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:11.239
it will become more ritualized over time, and then those who are very good

1000
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:15.279
at it will become the the James
mentioned kind of the gurus or the priests

1001
01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:18.279
or the you know, I'm just
using terms that we're familiar with, but

1002
01:25:18.319 --> 01:25:24.840
they'll be the ones who folks will
gather around to look to as the experts,

1003
01:25:25.159 --> 01:25:29.119
you know, and whatever those experts
say, as you know, I

1004
01:25:29.279 --> 01:25:32.079
found this to work, you know, then that is what their followers will

1005
01:25:32.119 --> 01:25:40.479
do in hopes that they too can
have a perceived experience that that is oftentimes

1006
01:25:40.520 --> 01:25:43.800
kind of conflated with like a souvific
experience. There there's a reason why we

1007
01:25:43.880 --> 01:25:46.239
want, you know this, There
has to be some inner drive why people

1008
01:25:46.359 --> 01:25:50.199
want to connect with this whatever it
is. And and and that could be

1009
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:54.159
different reasons for different people that I'm
in to be the same thing. But

1010
01:25:54.159 --> 01:25:57.359
but the ingredients, in other words, are there. And and you know,

1011
01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:00.439
Stephen Greer might be a good example
as someone who's kindind of elevated himself

1012
01:26:01.640 --> 01:26:05.000
to some degree, whether rightly or
wrongly, you know, as a guru,

1013
01:26:05.119 --> 01:26:08.399
and a lot of people do look
to him in this in this way,

1014
01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:13.159
you know, So where I kind
of try to keep my guard up

1015
01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:15.760
is at least with this is and
as you guys both know, there's so

1016
01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:21.239
many different interpretations of what's going on. There's so much, so many different

1017
01:26:21.319 --> 01:26:25.840
avenues of interest and information. You
know, I kind of side in the

1018
01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:28.680
camp that we're never probably going to
know what it is, but we you

1019
01:26:28.680 --> 01:26:30.880
know, it's it's worth studying.
You know, we need to really we

1020
01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:34.039
need to devote time energy, our
science, you know, our the our

1021
01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:36.640
philosophers, you know, all of
these, all of our good thinkers.

1022
01:26:38.039 --> 01:26:40.479
You know, we need to devote
that those folks to this so that we

1023
01:26:40.520 --> 01:26:44.880
can better understand it. And if
we can, then if it becomes more

1024
01:26:45.159 --> 01:26:47.680
real and less uh etheric, which
is sort of how it feels now,

1025
01:26:48.239 --> 01:26:54.039
then at that point we may start
seeing, you know, the real foundation

1026
01:26:54.159 --> 01:26:57.279
of a future way of being of
doing. And I kind of get gets

1027
01:26:57.279 --> 01:27:00.920
to the I don't want to necessarily
spend too much time on but because we

1028
01:27:00.920 --> 01:27:02.760
have another question, but James,
I do want to get your thoughts on,

1029
01:27:04.199 --> 01:27:10.319
uh, you know, as a
meditation practice practitioner, you know,

1030
01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:14.880
what would you kind of advocate for
people generally, because is this something that

1031
01:27:14.920 --> 01:27:17.920
you would say, like if if
if you had you know, you're if

1032
01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:20.720
it had your way, or I
think it could be best? Would is

1033
01:27:20.760 --> 01:27:26.479
it best for humanity kind of everyone
to do this kind of thing and follow

1034
01:27:26.479 --> 01:27:30.399
these kinds of practices and and engage
that the phenomenon and stealing your ear show's

1035
01:27:30.479 --> 01:27:33.159
term, But is this what you
were Is this what we would recommend?

1036
01:27:33.199 --> 01:27:36.960
Is this what we really want?
Is this something that is even feasible?

1037
01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:41.600
I guess is the way we way
to put it? I mean, uh

1038
01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:50.840
know in the sense where you know, it's not even recommendable for everybody to

1039
01:27:50.920 --> 01:27:56.920
be practicing meditation. Some people are
going to have adverse effects. There's you

1040
01:27:56.920 --> 01:28:02.119
know, percentage of the population that
they start doing meditation and they you know,

1041
01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:06.640
maybe it's other factors in their life
and they just get into a thing,

1042
01:28:06.680 --> 01:28:11.399
and i'd really you know, actually, one of the first podcast guests

1043
01:28:11.399 --> 01:28:17.000
I had on Engaging the phenomenon is
somebody named Daniel Ingram, and he talks

1044
01:28:17.119 --> 01:28:23.479
to this about the meditation stuff.
Right, like, getting into some meditation

1045
01:28:24.199 --> 01:28:29.920
territory is not advisable for everybody.
In fact, it could make you want

1046
01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:34.079
to quit your job and leave your
marriage and all these things. And again,

1047
01:28:34.159 --> 01:28:42.039
my friend Grant, I'll just say
that he had a profound contact experience

1048
01:28:42.159 --> 01:28:45.920
and it affected his relationship. I
hope he doesn't mind me saying that.

1049
01:28:47.039 --> 01:28:51.319
So those kind of things could happen
because you could think it's some innocent,

1050
01:28:51.439 --> 01:28:56.600
simple thing and you don't know what
you're getting yourself into. And I'm not

1051
01:28:56.600 --> 01:29:00.520
saying that in a negative way.
Again, my whole thing has it's been

1052
01:29:02.079 --> 01:29:05.720
for me, I view it in
a in an optimistic light. That's just

1053
01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:13.880
how I see it, at least
for me. But I you know,

1054
01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:18.600
I don't think everybody should just do
CE five because maybe not everybody is ready

1055
01:29:18.600 --> 01:29:27.319
for C five, But maybe you
could have dedicated research teams that are are

1056
01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:32.800
doing that investigation. I wouldn't advise
everybody play football like absolute. It's it's

1057
01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:38.760
absolute, you can't have There's nothing
everybody should do, you know. It's

1058
01:29:39.079 --> 01:29:43.800
I think it's an important thing to
emphasize, and I'm not saying you haven't

1059
01:29:43.840 --> 01:29:45.680
ever emphasized that, But I think
for folks you know listening or folks in

1060
01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:50.399
the community generally, you know that
there is no one way to really experience

1061
01:29:50.479 --> 01:29:55.239
this. You know, there's no
one methodology that is going to crack the

1062
01:29:55.239 --> 01:29:58.039
code or you know, solve the
problem or whatever it is, because it

1063
01:29:58.079 --> 01:30:00.560
is it's just too diverse and weird
to diverse, right, Yeah, And

1064
01:30:00.840 --> 01:30:05.760
we need to be celebrating these different
sort of modalities because it's through these different

1065
01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:10.520
modalities that we're going to really get
the answer. It's not through one avenue

1066
01:30:10.560 --> 01:30:15.159
of discovery. It's through many avenues
of discovery and inquiry. It's like,

1067
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:20.319
not everybody's gonna want the one with
you can never get the right combination.

1068
01:30:20.680 --> 01:30:25.800
Never, I want the one that
has the pudding and the chicken. No,

1069
01:30:25.840 --> 01:30:32.359
but but TV dinners, that's what
we're gonna do. Actually, the

1070
01:30:32.560 --> 01:30:42.920
chef Boyarty. Everybody calls the chef
Boyardy, it's not no. But even

1071
01:30:42.960 --> 01:30:46.720
getting to the meditation thing too,
is that you know, I'm forgetting her

1072
01:30:46.720 --> 01:30:51.000
first name. I believe her her
last name was Willoughby or maybe that's her

1073
01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:58.680
first name. But she had a
university research project. It was initially it

1074
01:30:58.760 --> 01:31:01.560
was called the Dark Knight pro and
then they changed the name to be more

1075
01:31:02.520 --> 01:31:10.640
academically appeasing and and not so,
but it was it was about meditation and

1076
01:31:10.760 --> 01:31:16.560
people coming into what what it's called
the dark Knight of the soul. So

1077
01:31:17.439 --> 01:31:28.800
even people practicing mild mindfulness practice,
which is is is just basic intentional awareness,

1078
01:31:29.039 --> 01:31:36.119
present moment stuff, not even in
some case milder so milder mindfulness just

1079
01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:42.800
being you know, you can,
eyes open awareness and just being aware of

1080
01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:47.720
what's going on right now. So
you know, there's different practices like mindfulness

1081
01:31:47.720 --> 01:31:51.520
based stress production, which is meant
to be have health benefits. But some

1082
01:31:51.600 --> 01:32:00.039
people even just practicing that, we're
running into territory after continued practice where they

1083
01:32:01.239 --> 01:32:08.640
start to realize that and again there's
deeper fundamental questions to this, and it's

1084
01:32:08.720 --> 01:32:14.760
it's you know, if they start
realizing and it's you know, it's it's

1085
01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:18.039
it's difficult to have that conversation because
they can just start realizing things in their

1086
01:32:18.039 --> 01:32:21.600
life that they don't like, and
it can cause a you know what I

1087
01:32:21.680 --> 01:32:30.319
mean, it's it happens during pigeon
pos It happens during pigeon posts, James.

1088
01:32:30.319 --> 01:32:32.039
And by the way, I'm thinking, I need to take you down

1089
01:32:32.039 --> 01:32:36.239
to peak skill and go to Prana
Moon Yoga and let's take a class from

1090
01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:41.039
my homegirl down there because she's an
amazing yogi. Uh we have method of

1091
01:32:41.159 --> 01:32:46.079
error. Has James ever suspected he
was taken by the intelligence he has interacted

1092
01:32:46.119 --> 01:32:54.159
with h I have no idea and
not to my recollection, And I'm just

1093
01:32:54.199 --> 01:33:00.000
gonna go say that I'm not somebody
who is a fan of hypnotic regressions during

1094
01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:09.119
thing. I don't recall ever having
being taken. I've had, I had

1095
01:33:09.800 --> 01:33:15.880
frightening experiences, but I again,
there there was there way for it to

1096
01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:21.399
have happened in me not knowing sure, But I have no idea, not

1097
01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:26.439
that I'm aware of. I don't
think so. I don't think so.

1098
01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:32.039
But you know, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't want to find out through another

1099
01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:40.399
means of just conscious recollection either.
I wouldn't want to. I'm not I'm

1100
01:33:40.439 --> 01:33:45.039
not a fan of hypnotic as regression, just just for my own you know.

1101
01:33:45.199 --> 01:33:48.159
Again, that's just my my way, just like in the meditation world.

1102
01:33:48.199 --> 01:33:54.319
I'm not a fan of the whole
past life thing. I have more

1103
01:33:54.319 --> 01:33:59.000
of a zen philosophy in that way
of here. Now, even if I

1104
01:33:59.119 --> 01:34:00.840
remembered that I was something in a
past life, it's like, how does

1105
01:34:00.880 --> 01:34:03.960
that affect me? Now, and
why is it relevant? Gotcha, James.

1106
01:34:04.000 --> 01:34:08.199
I'm gonna leave all my meditation stuff
in the Duffel bag when I come

1107
01:34:08.239 --> 01:34:10.920
to New York. I'm not even
gonna break it out, so you know,

1108
01:34:11.199 --> 01:34:16.560
fine, all right? Max?
So MAXI McCabe. So what's up,

1109
01:34:16.600 --> 01:34:20.359
brother, how are you doing?
DJ is good see or to speak

1110
01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:25.039
to you and to see you visually. It's good to see. That's an

1111
01:34:25.079 --> 01:34:30.239
excellent beard. Your hair looks great, very very very soccer player kind of.

1112
01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:35.000
I dig it, man. Yeah, so let me just frame this

1113
01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:41.800
up. Nathan was one hundred percent
correct today when he which he is most

1114
01:34:41.800 --> 01:34:45.760
of the time. He said,
uh oh, I think Max is thinking

1115
01:34:45.000 --> 01:34:48.680
not about the experience around table.
He's thinking he's coming on tonight. But

1116
01:34:48.840 --> 01:34:53.640
me, like an idiot, didn't
clarify it. And so Max has joined

1117
01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:58.359
us. He's had an amazing experience
in the UK that blew my socks off

1118
01:34:58.439 --> 01:35:00.640
now right now because I have socks
on, but back then it did take

1119
01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:08.640
the socks off. Max, my
brother, man, it would take quite

1120
01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:12.800
some time. I think you're near
the end of your show that you planned,

1121
01:35:12.880 --> 01:35:19.399
right, and James, nice to
meet you. I apologize for the

1122
01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:27.359
mix up, but yeah, no, I apologize something, idiot. It's

1123
01:35:27.359 --> 01:35:30.000
a pleasure to have you on,
man, Thank you, thank you.

1124
01:35:30.760 --> 01:35:36.520
I did have a question for Jones
actually just before is have you had any

1125
01:35:39.159 --> 01:35:45.479
what we might put into the box
of paranormal shadow figures, poltergeist, anything

1126
01:35:45.560 --> 01:35:53.640
like that happened to you after you
began interacting with UFOs. I had all

1127
01:35:53.640 --> 01:36:02.119
that actually mostly before beforehand, before, but yeah after as well, but

1128
01:36:02.760 --> 01:36:13.720
more so before. So yeah,
that I did have experiences with that.

1129
01:36:13.720 --> 01:36:16.079
That's why I I was gonna say, I tend to think some of it

1130
01:36:15.880 --> 01:36:23.199
is connected, but to me it
was at least it felt clear from if

1131
01:36:23.239 --> 01:36:28.600
I could distinguish that they weren't the
same phenomenon, but it was again something

1132
01:36:29.319 --> 01:36:32.920
that people can consider paranormal. Mm
hmm. Yeah, it's interesting that we

1133
01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:40.840
use this language is so limiting,
right, Yeah, So whatever words we

1134
01:36:40.920 --> 01:36:44.359
choose to use, we like to
pigeonhole things and put them in boxes,

1135
01:36:44.920 --> 01:36:53.680
which really oversimplify, oversimplifies things which
are way more complex, and words just

1136
01:36:53.760 --> 01:36:58.600
don't do it justice, right,
So what happened to us here? I'll

1137
01:36:58.640 --> 01:37:03.520
try and be brief. DJ Yes, sir, September October twenty fourteen.

1138
01:37:04.840 --> 01:37:10.239
I've never had any interest in the
subject in my whole life, but didn't

1139
01:37:10.239 --> 01:37:15.399
ask for any of this stuff to
happen, and it was Some of it

1140
01:37:15.560 --> 01:37:19.000
was positive, but we had a
lot of negative stuff happened too that became

1141
01:37:19.399 --> 01:37:26.000
completely out of our control and quite
scary, to say the least. It

1142
01:37:26.119 --> 01:37:31.319
became very unpleasant. But I'm aware
that obviously there's a whole spectrum of things.

1143
01:37:32.520 --> 01:37:36.800
I had a man. It's really
difficult to talk about, but I'm

1144
01:37:36.800 --> 01:37:41.800
going to try it. So one
night in September twenty fourteen, my daughter

1145
01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:45.720
was at the front of our house
with our neighbor's daughter and as they were

1146
01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:49.720
at the front, I was Asleep's
about eleven o'clock at night, they watched

1147
01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:55.560
three balls of light in the sky
that are making formations and patterns, and

1148
01:37:55.680 --> 01:38:00.119
they shot off Eventually. She told
me the next day, I was in

1149
01:38:00.159 --> 01:38:02.760
the garden about four o'clock in the
morning before I went to bed. I've

1150
01:38:02.800 --> 01:38:08.119
been working all night. As I
was sitting there looking up at the beautiful,

1151
01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:13.640
crisp, nice sky, beautiful starry
night, really cold, there was

1152
01:38:13.680 --> 01:38:16.960
a double flash of white light.
So as I've just thought, well,

1153
01:38:17.199 --> 01:38:21.039
lightning or something like this, and
then I thought, well, it's not

1154
01:38:21.199 --> 01:38:26.640
humid, there's no clouds. And
as I was thinking that, another double

1155
01:38:26.720 --> 01:38:30.199
flash of white light, pure brilliant
white light. I've looked straight up and

1156
01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:35.600
there are these two spheres of white
light passing over my head. And then

1157
01:38:35.600 --> 01:38:41.640
they at a right angle. They
shot off so fast that left trace lines

1158
01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:46.399
ran through the house. There's nothing
there a few minutes, maybe it was

1159
01:38:46.520 --> 01:38:50.119
ten past four in the morning,
because I looked at my watch, thinking

1160
01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:54.760
I'll tell my daughter I'd seen the
same thing that they'd seen. And as

1161
01:38:54.800 --> 01:38:58.439
I've come into the house to lock
the door because there's nothing happening now,

1162
01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:02.199
they're gone. As I've locked the
door, turned the key, turn around

1163
01:39:02.239 --> 01:39:08.439
to go up the stairs, I
was struck by what can only be classified

1164
01:39:08.479 --> 01:39:15.159
as a telepathic instruction. Wasn't words, but it certainly shocked me and stopped

1165
01:39:15.199 --> 01:39:20.199
me in my tracks. And I
my mind unrabbled it into don't close the

1166
01:39:20.239 --> 01:39:26.159
door, go outside and look up. So I did. And as I've

1167
01:39:26.159 --> 01:39:31.319
stepped outside of the house and looked
up, a huge golden object maybe fifty

1168
01:39:31.399 --> 01:39:35.399
sixty feet up, not very high
at all if you stacked this house on

1169
01:39:35.479 --> 01:39:40.119
top of itself, a two story
house which is about ten meters I now

1170
01:39:40.279 --> 01:39:45.079
know this thing moved out and stopped
right above me, so all at once,

1171
01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:48.279
James, as I've stepped over that
doorway and looked up, and I'm

1172
01:39:48.319 --> 01:39:56.199
gobsmacked. I felt like I was
bathed in extremely strong static electricity. I

1173
01:39:56.279 --> 01:39:59.000
mean all of my hair stood on
end, all of it, not just

1174
01:39:59.119 --> 01:40:02.720
the back of my neck. I
wasn't scared or anything like this. So

1175
01:40:03.439 --> 01:40:08.520
I'm stood under this thing. I'm
struck with an overwhelming feeling of love,

1176
01:40:09.279 --> 01:40:13.960
and so much that it made my
eyes water, pin drops, silence.

1177
01:40:15.840 --> 01:40:19.159
I'm just absolutely gobsmacked and in shock. The thing is probably a big as

1178
01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:24.640
a bus. It was like a
horizontal diamond shape, but it only had

1179
01:40:24.640 --> 01:40:29.239
a diamond shape because there were shards
of light emanating from the center of it

1180
01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:36.319
vertically around the edges. More towards
the edges were golden tinged but moving plasma,

1181
01:40:38.039 --> 01:40:42.079
and beyond that it appeared like plasma. It's the only thing I can

1182
01:40:42.800 --> 01:40:46.000
equate it to. But it was
so bright it should have burnt my eyes,

1183
01:40:46.119 --> 01:40:48.880
like looking directly at the sun.
But it was soft on the eyes.

1184
01:40:48.960 --> 01:40:53.119
It was gentle on the eyes.
It was like a a luminosity that

1185
01:40:53.239 --> 01:40:58.520
I'd never seen before. So beyond
the edging. It was as if it

1186
01:40:58.640 --> 01:41:00.640
was setting the air on fire.
It was almost like flames. It was

1187
01:41:00.960 --> 01:41:08.239
just absolutely beautiful and stunning. So
I'm taking this in. I didn't know

1188
01:41:08.279 --> 01:41:11.439
what else to do, so I
just waved. What else do you do?

1189
01:41:11.640 --> 01:41:15.760
Right then it started to dawn on
me that it might not be safe,

1190
01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:18.199
that I might be in danger.
I just, you know, human

1191
01:41:18.279 --> 01:41:23.000
brain starts thinking, this is insane. I can't believe what I'm seeing.

1192
01:41:23.680 --> 01:41:26.880
Why is it silent? I can
hear myself breathing, my heart beat.

1193
01:41:27.880 --> 01:41:31.600
It just was too crazy. Man
tingles up my spine, going over my

1194
01:41:31.720 --> 01:41:35.840
scalp or the hairs on end.
I looked left to see if any of

1195
01:41:35.880 --> 01:41:40.159
the neighbors were awake, because I
need someone else to see this. I

1196
01:41:40.239 --> 01:41:43.359
considered running into the house because the
door was still open, to wake people

1197
01:41:43.479 --> 01:41:47.439
up, but I felt from the
moment it told me to go outside and

1198
01:41:47.479 --> 01:41:54.000
look up, I felt an overwhelming
sense of being watched and observed a complete

1199
01:41:54.119 --> 01:41:57.920
INTI connection, as if it was
still connected to me, like it knew

1200
01:41:57.960 --> 01:42:02.439
my thoughts. And it was at
this point that I considered, my phone

1201
01:42:02.560 --> 01:42:06.079
is in my top top left jacket
pocket, and then I actually take a

1202
01:42:06.119 --> 01:42:10.720
picture. I've got to take a
video or picture or something. The moment

1203
01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:14.560
that I thought that this thing starts
to move left, Yeah, I left

1204
01:42:15.239 --> 01:42:17.439
the moment, and I felt like
I'd messed up. I felt like it

1205
01:42:17.800 --> 01:42:21.640
did not want that bit, like
it was an intimate moment just for me.

1206
01:42:24.399 --> 01:42:26.399
So I start to walk under it, saying no, no, no,

1207
01:42:26.479 --> 01:42:28.840
no, no, don't go.
I didn't want the moment to end.

1208
01:42:30.039 --> 01:42:33.079
It starts to speed up, so
I'm now jogging and then running,

1209
01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:38.199
and it curves to the right and
starts to head higher and higher and faster

1210
01:42:38.279 --> 01:42:41.800
and faster. I ran to the
edge to where I could as far as

1211
01:42:41.840 --> 01:42:45.960
I could go because there's terraced houses. And I watched this thing rise up

1212
01:42:45.039 --> 01:42:49.039
into the distance until it's so high
up in the atmosphere and it just disappears

1213
01:42:49.079 --> 01:42:56.319
out of sight within maybe six to
ten seconds at most. So this was

1214
01:42:56.359 --> 01:42:59.640
the very first night. Right the
second night, i'd skip out because I'll

1215
01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:03.199
be here nights explaining everything. But
the second night, I was pacing the

1216
01:43:03.279 --> 01:43:08.239
house. I wanted my girlfriend to
by the way. I tried to stay

1217
01:43:08.319 --> 01:43:11.439
up to tell my girlfriend what had
happened. And I was a wreck.

1218
01:43:11.560 --> 01:43:14.399
I was I didn't realize at the
time. I was in complete shock,

1219
01:43:15.199 --> 01:43:17.880
and I just couldn't stumble through the
words. I literally broke down because I

1220
01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:21.680
was in such shock from what had
just happened. I couldn't process it.

1221
01:43:24.079 --> 01:43:27.920
So the next night I asked her
to stay up with me. She didn't,

1222
01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:31.239
and I'm pacing back and forward,
backguarden front garden, back guarden,

1223
01:43:31.279 --> 01:43:36.199
front garden, and the thing comes
back from a different location, roughly the

1224
01:43:36.279 --> 01:43:42.119
same height, and it just glides
along the rooftop rooftops of the neighbors' houses.

1225
01:43:42.800 --> 01:43:45.239
And I consider running in to come
and get her, or try calling

1226
01:43:45.319 --> 01:43:48.079
her, or am I going to
take a video? Well, I wanted

1227
01:43:48.119 --> 01:43:51.039
her to see it. I didn't
care about no damn video, so I

1228
01:43:51.159 --> 01:43:57.039
tried calling her and I'm watching it. It's literally just gliding along as people

1229
01:43:57.039 --> 01:44:00.279
who are asleep, but roughly the
same time, about twenty parts four in

1230
01:44:00.319 --> 01:44:04.039
the morning this time, and it
turns on a right angle left turn,

1231
01:44:04.279 --> 01:44:08.600
so now it's heading for my right, across to my left, and then

1232
01:44:08.640 --> 01:44:12.520
it glides up into the same point
in the sky. Third night, it

1233
01:44:12.640 --> 01:44:15.880
comes back again. This time I've
got her to wake up early, and

1234
01:44:15.960 --> 01:44:19.439
I'm pacing around she's making coffee,
and then all of a sudden, it

1235
01:44:19.520 --> 01:44:25.000
comes from back here. It comes
straight down and stops. I call her

1236
01:44:25.079 --> 01:44:28.720
out. She looks at it,
Oh wow, and then the thing hangs

1237
01:44:28.760 --> 01:44:30.680
for about ten seconds before it just
zooms up, so it made like a

1238
01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:38.199
a V pattern. I never saw
that one again. A few nights later,

1239
01:44:38.279 --> 01:44:42.159
I'm driving down the road in gale
force winds and there's a red ball

1240
01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:45.439
of light hanging in the sky.
It catches my attention. I know there's

1241
01:44:45.479 --> 01:44:49.960
nothing back there but high tension power
lines and a train track, so I

1242
01:44:50.039 --> 01:44:55.279
pulled the car over. I'm absolutely
wanting to get a picture this time,

1243
01:44:55.880 --> 01:44:58.159
so I get out of the car. I reach in to get my phone

1244
01:44:58.199 --> 01:45:01.479
while keeping my eye on it,
and it just out. You know,

1245
01:45:03.199 --> 01:45:08.640
it was after that that things started
to get pretty pretty negative. I say

1246
01:45:08.720 --> 01:45:13.880
negative. That's not that's not a
clever way to put it. The way

1247
01:45:13.920 --> 01:45:17.359
that I described the feeling of love
from when I was under it the first

1248
01:45:17.479 --> 01:45:23.399
night, it didn't come. It
didn't feel like it came from within within

1249
01:45:23.520 --> 01:45:27.960
me naturally. It felt as if
that feeling was projected upon me, because

1250
01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:31.079
there was no logical reason for me
to feel that sense of overwhelming love.

1251
01:45:31.760 --> 01:45:36.000
It almost felt like an angelic experience. It was alien angelic, it was

1252
01:45:36.159 --> 01:45:41.000
magical. It was shocking all at
once. As you know, there's no

1253
01:45:41.119 --> 01:45:44.279
way to make sense of it.
Your brain just goes into meltdown because you

1254
01:45:44.359 --> 01:45:47.399
don't know, there's nothing to relate
to this. It's just so unique.

1255
01:45:48.680 --> 01:45:55.000
So that feeling of love. Me
and my girlfriend are at the back maybe

1256
01:45:55.079 --> 01:46:00.319
two weeks after these first experiences,
nighttime with having a common station, and

1257
01:46:00.399 --> 01:46:05.079
all of a sudden, that feeling
just dropped on us. But it was

1258
01:46:05.159 --> 01:46:09.319
not love. It was negative.
It was terrifying. It felt like we

1259
01:46:09.399 --> 01:46:15.079
were being watched, but in a
really just basically felt filled with terror.

1260
01:46:15.479 --> 01:46:18.560
Of course we both stop. Hairs
on the back of my neck went up,

1261
01:46:18.640 --> 01:46:24.520
this time with fear. But again, why this came from nowhere?

1262
01:46:24.600 --> 01:46:30.039
Right, They just came from nowhere? Silence fell, and then these huge,

1263
01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:34.159
heavy footsteps right in front of us
where we're facing there. We have

1264
01:46:34.319 --> 01:46:39.479
fence panels with huge gaps in between
the fencing so you can see straight through.

1265
01:46:40.319 --> 01:46:44.079
There's lights in the back so you
can see straight through. These footsteps

1266
01:46:44.439 --> 01:46:51.119
sounded like a damn dinosaur was walking
back there a pound left and right left,

1267
01:46:51.159 --> 01:46:55.439
and right, and she got so
scared she ran in the house slammed

1268
01:46:55.479 --> 01:46:58.439
the door, saying, I'm sorry, babe, can't. I'm sat there,

1269
01:46:58.600 --> 01:47:01.640
terrified, frozen to my chair.
And it made me mad because it

1270
01:47:01.720 --> 01:47:06.239
felt like a test. It felt
like it almost whatever this was, it

1271
01:47:06.399 --> 01:47:11.159
was as if it was trying to
test my resolve. So I got mad.

1272
01:47:11.399 --> 01:47:15.680
My reaction was to get angry,
gripped my teeth, and get prepared

1273
01:47:15.720 --> 01:47:18.359
for whatever was going to happen.
And as soon as I got mad,

1274
01:47:19.640 --> 01:47:25.800
the feeling lifted, the normal background
sounds came back, and everything became normal

1275
01:47:25.880 --> 01:47:28.439
again. I sat there for another
minute, went over, looked over the

1276
01:47:28.520 --> 01:47:31.680
fence. There's nothing there. But
these footsteps came right in front of me

1277
01:47:32.199 --> 01:47:35.600
where I should have been able to
see what was making the sound, and

1278
01:47:35.680 --> 01:47:41.079
there was nothing there. Mine.
After that, me and my son,

1279
01:47:41.319 --> 01:47:43.920
he moves in. He's fourteen.
We go for a walk in the woods.

1280
01:47:44.560 --> 01:47:47.880
It's one o'clock in the afternoon,
so broad daylight. And as we're

1281
01:47:47.880 --> 01:47:51.720
walking towards those woods to go into
the tree line, that same feeling,

1282
01:47:53.199 --> 01:47:59.439
that same terror suddenly out of nowhere's
with mid conversation, just drops. I

1283
01:47:59.600 --> 01:48:02.439
stopped, he says, Dad,
do you feel that he's fourteen years old,

1284
01:48:02.840 --> 01:48:05.960
he's just moved in with me.
The first thing that happens is this,

1285
01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:11.239
I thought, oh, excuse me, my friends, well, shit,

1286
01:48:11.359 --> 01:48:14.880
he feels it too. And then
that feeling of being watched had a

1287
01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:17.279
direction and it was drilling into the
back of my head from up there.

1288
01:48:17.640 --> 01:48:24.399
So I turned round automatically and look
up to see what was a dark metallics

1289
01:48:25.880 --> 01:48:30.800
cylinder, that half of it just
zoomed behind a big puffy white cloud.

1290
01:48:31.680 --> 01:48:35.640
I'm not taking my eyes off it, thinking hot air, balloon, jet,

1291
01:48:36.039 --> 01:48:40.119
whatever, you're thinking of every possible
thing that it could be. But

1292
01:48:40.239 --> 01:48:43.720
I clearly saw the back end.
It was cigar shape or cylinder at least,

1293
01:48:44.960 --> 01:48:47.760
just jet jet behind it. I
said, did you just see that,

1294
01:48:47.920 --> 01:48:49.880
Corbyn? He said, yeah,
Dad, you see it too.

1295
01:48:50.159 --> 01:48:53.800
What did you see? He said? It was like a cylinder, like

1296
01:48:53.880 --> 01:48:57.159
a can. Next thing I remember
is saying we've got to get out of

1297
01:48:57.279 --> 01:49:02.800
here. We don't remember the walk
on now. It was that next day.

1298
01:49:03.439 --> 01:49:08.239
It stayed out at night and I'm
in the living room. I'm in

1299
01:49:08.319 --> 01:49:12.159
the house by myself with my six
week old baby boy. At the time,

1300
01:49:12.640 --> 01:49:16.000
he's asleep on the sofa, he
wakes up crying. As I stand

1301
01:49:16.079 --> 01:49:19.279
up to pick him up, I
notice movement out the corner of my right

1302
01:49:19.399 --> 01:49:24.279
eye and I look over and in
my doorway between my kitchen and living room

1303
01:49:25.119 --> 01:49:30.439
is maybe four foot two. Halfway
up the doorframe a shadow figure with an

1304
01:49:30.479 --> 01:49:35.439
oversized head. I didn't notice anything
beyond the waistline because I didn't have time

1305
01:49:35.560 --> 01:49:40.399
to look up and down. And
this thing is moving like as if it's

1306
01:49:40.439 --> 01:49:44.960
looking My direction. Makes me jump
out of my skin. And the thing

1307
01:49:45.159 --> 01:49:47.720
just glides fast across the living room. No bumping up and down, no

1308
01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:53.640
walking motion, just glides fast.
Scared me out of my wits, made

1309
01:49:53.720 --> 01:49:57.600
my heart skip a beat. I
physically jumped out of my skin. Now

1310
01:49:57.680 --> 01:50:00.319
I didn't tell my son about this
because he stayed out there night. The

1311
01:50:00.439 --> 01:50:04.920
next day he comes back. I'm
upstairs. He runs up the stairs,

1312
01:50:04.960 --> 01:50:08.960
going, Dad, Dad. I
just was doing my hair in the living

1313
01:50:09.039 --> 01:50:14.760
room and this shadow figure just ran
across the room. So again he's just

1314
01:50:14.800 --> 01:50:17.159
seen what I'd seen, and I
hadn't spoken with him about it. After

1315
01:50:17.279 --> 01:50:21.159
that, he had para poltergeist.
Stuff happened in this very room was his

1316
01:50:21.279 --> 01:50:25.159
bedroom, and this door handle,
he says, when he was here with

1317
01:50:25.239 --> 01:50:29.479
a friend, started shaking up and
down and the door came open and they

1318
01:50:29.560 --> 01:50:33.439
both left the house. That was
so scared. So I had two more

1319
01:50:33.479 --> 01:50:39.119
things after that, a silver sphere
in the sky and broad daylight. I

1320
01:50:39.239 --> 01:50:43.600
managed to film a little bit of
it on camera three video clips. I

1321
01:50:43.760 --> 01:50:45.800
was at work, and at the
time I worked in a job where the

1322
01:50:45.920 --> 01:50:48.439
kind of people I was around,
you really don't want to be saying,

1323
01:50:48.479 --> 01:50:51.800
oh, look at this ufo and
sky. So I just said nothing and

1324
01:50:51.920 --> 01:50:58.520
filmed it. And it was a
dark metallic sphere. Wasn't It was literally

1325
01:50:58.600 --> 01:51:02.159
a sphere. The thing just approach
my position, so I noticed it at

1326
01:51:02.720 --> 01:51:09.439
quite a long far distance, so
I got the phone out and started filming.

1327
01:51:09.880 --> 01:51:12.880
It came up and stopped, and
it just kept moving left and stopping.

1328
01:51:13.079 --> 01:51:15.840
It was quite a windy day.
Wasn't affected by that. There was

1329
01:51:15.920 --> 01:51:19.920
no noise from it. Eventually it
took about ten thirteen minutes to move out

1330
01:51:19.960 --> 01:51:25.279
of sight over the tree line and
the final thing, so I wanted to

1331
01:51:25.880 --> 01:51:29.880
wrapping it all up. The final
thing, I was driving late at night

1332
01:51:29.960 --> 01:51:34.199
by myself, very isolated road the
A forty seven. The piece were here

1333
01:51:35.199 --> 01:51:40.159
and I noticed to my right what
I thought was a plane crashing because there

1334
01:51:40.199 --> 01:51:45.560
were some orange lights. Just came
down real fast and then kind of glided

1335
01:51:45.680 --> 01:51:50.079
up and started heading my way,
and so I'm double taking, thinking is

1336
01:51:50.159 --> 01:51:57.039
that looking for flashy airplane lights or
something. As it approached I realized that

1337
01:51:57.159 --> 01:52:00.479
it's coming to intercept perfectly my position. I had nowhere to pull over,

1338
01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:05.680
and eventually I realized there were just
three balls of orange and the light that

1339
01:52:05.840 --> 01:52:11.439
was side by side horizontally. They
passed so close to me that if I'd

1340
01:52:11.520 --> 01:52:15.199
stood on the roof of the vehicle, I could have touched them. There

1341
01:52:15.239 --> 01:52:21.880
were just three balls of typically beach
ball size orange lights they passed over.

1342
01:52:23.199 --> 01:52:27.640
I saw them go over the hedging. And that was in twenty eighteen.

1343
01:52:27.800 --> 01:52:30.159
So the whole thing that we went
through lasted about three and a half years,

1344
01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:36.000
and of course it's taken me years
of trying to come to terms with

1345
01:52:36.079 --> 01:52:42.359
it. I've never done meditation.
I've always wanted to. I've never like

1346
01:52:42.439 --> 01:52:45.760
to say, I've never looked for
any experience like this, but it's left

1347
01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:50.119
me with, of course, more
questions and answers frustrating as anything that I've

1348
01:52:50.199 --> 01:52:55.600
ever experienced before. I want to
know more I've come to terms with the

1349
01:52:55.680 --> 01:53:00.600
fact that I probably will never know
anything. But yeah, it's just good

1350
01:53:00.600 --> 01:53:03.039
to be able to shed it.
Thanks DJ, thank you, thank you

1351
01:53:03.239 --> 01:53:08.119
for sharing. It's an honor to
have you here. Oh yeah, Deb,

1352
01:53:08.279 --> 01:53:11.199
he's already going to be on the
Experiencer panel. We've already worked that

1353
01:53:11.279 --> 01:53:15.119
out. We're thinking we're going to
have I think Linda Thompson from Twitter we're

1354
01:53:15.119 --> 01:53:17.720
gonna have. So we've got a
couple of people, David, John Lanier.

1355
01:53:18.079 --> 01:53:24.199
But yeah, but it's a target
of opportunity that my error led to

1356
01:53:24.319 --> 01:53:28.439
Max being on. And you guys, because Nathan's heard the story third person

1357
01:53:29.880 --> 01:53:34.359
but James hasn't, So would you
like to comment? James, Yeah,

1358
01:53:34.359 --> 01:53:40.640
I mean I think you have kind
of the right idea about it is.

1359
01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:46.279
You know, you want to know
the truth, but you have an idea

1360
01:53:46.560 --> 01:53:49.439
or come to grips with that.
You know, you might you might not

1361
01:53:49.520 --> 01:53:55.960
get all the answers. I think
that's a healthy place to be. You

1362
01:53:56.000 --> 01:54:01.239
know. As far as meditation and
stuff, I that's something you're gonna have

1363
01:54:01.279 --> 01:54:06.399
to experiment with, right. Is
it gonna make more of these experiences happen

1364
01:54:06.600 --> 01:54:13.039
positive or negative? You know?
The only way you're gonna know is to

1365
01:54:13.680 --> 01:54:17.680
actually do it and find out.
You know, personally, you know,

1366
01:54:17.800 --> 01:54:25.479
I'm in a similar situation where it
was baptism by fire. But my nature

1367
01:54:25.600 --> 01:54:30.199
is just to go directly at it. I don't know if that's advisable,

1368
01:54:30.199 --> 01:54:34.600
but you know, engaging the phenomenon
it is kind of my thing. So

1369
01:54:34.760 --> 01:54:41.680
I'm just going straight forward. It
sounds kind of like you probably have a

1370
01:54:41.720 --> 01:54:45.560
similar attitude where you want answers because
you know things like that are gonna happen

1371
01:54:45.640 --> 01:54:50.319
to you, and uh, most
people, I don't know. I don't

1372
01:54:50.359 --> 01:54:54.039
think that's something you can just put
behind you and move on with life.

1373
01:54:54.079 --> 01:54:59.000
Maybe maybe some people can, maybe
that's wiser, but you know, I

1374
01:54:59.079 --> 01:55:03.199
can understand seriously just wanting to pursue
it. I mean, that's what I've

1375
01:55:03.279 --> 01:55:12.079
done. Did you feel that it
was like the same phenomena or did you

1376
01:55:12.199 --> 01:55:17.479
have, like what was your instinct
that it was the same or possibly different

1377
01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:23.760
phenomenon like the first experience when I
opened the door for everything else that followed

1378
01:55:24.479 --> 01:55:30.159
exactly. That was my question,
is that I that's the thing that tests

1379
01:55:30.199 --> 01:55:33.159
your sanity, right, you have
to have a strong mind, and I'm

1380
01:55:33.319 --> 01:55:38.119
just extremely lucky that I had.
By the way, I forgot to mention

1381
01:55:39.840 --> 01:55:44.239
it wasn't just our neighbor's daughter they've
move now, and my daughter and my

1382
01:55:44.399 --> 01:55:47.720
son, and my the old friend
and me. It was also a gentleman

1383
01:55:47.800 --> 01:55:54.119
that lives local to hear it posted
into a group chat. He'd taken photographs

1384
01:55:54.399 --> 01:55:59.319
of these spheres of white light just
a few meters away from our house in

1385
01:55:59.439 --> 01:56:03.439
twenty eight and he had posted pictures
of them with a blurb where it said

1386
01:56:05.159 --> 01:56:10.399
he was walking his dog at twenty
past midnight and he'd seen these three balls

1387
01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:15.640
of light making dancing around making formations. A third one joined in, sorry,

1388
01:56:15.079 --> 01:56:18.000
yeah, two balls of like a
third one joined in and then they

1389
01:56:18.119 --> 01:56:24.720
shot straight up incredibly fast. His
question was, has anybody got a reasonable

1390
01:56:25.000 --> 01:56:28.680
explanation as to what these says are? Well, there's no reasonabley explation.

1391
01:56:29.920 --> 01:56:33.119
And then thirdly, I was lucky
enough to have Mufund's director in the UK

1392
01:56:33.319 --> 01:56:39.359
call me Jack Turnbull. He told
me about a few things which struck a

1393
01:56:39.439 --> 01:56:44.840
chord. And it turns out that
another gentleman that was driving up the road

1394
01:56:44.880 --> 01:56:47.960
here on the very same road that
we live in twenty eighteen again, had

1395
01:56:48.039 --> 01:56:53.560
filmed on his dash cam footage of
two spheres of white light passing from this

1396
01:56:53.760 --> 01:56:57.680
site over to the other side of
the road. So it seems that it

1397
01:56:57.800 --> 01:57:02.199
was a transient thing that happened in
this area for a couple of years for

1398
01:57:02.319 --> 01:57:09.680
whatever reason. But to answer your
question specifically, at the time, that's

1399
01:57:09.760 --> 01:57:15.239
what made me really, that's what
really made me almost insane, is I

1400
01:57:15.319 --> 01:57:19.079
thought, I've just had this UFO
experience, whatever that is. Now I'm

1401
01:57:19.159 --> 01:57:25.000
seeing ghosts, what like, what
the hell's going on? At the time,

1402
01:57:25.319 --> 01:57:30.079
my gut instinct was just a knee
jerk reaction of this is paranormal.

1403
01:57:30.279 --> 01:57:39.279
I'm seeing I've never seen something that
was crazy. Man, I don't know

1404
01:57:39.359 --> 01:57:42.159
what to make of it, James. And that's the thing, why are

1405
01:57:42.279 --> 01:57:46.279
so many people having a UFO experience? And then you know shadow figures,

1406
01:57:46.319 --> 01:57:49.760
polar guist what we call paranormal.
You say you had it the other way

1407
01:57:49.800 --> 01:57:56.720
around, and that's fascinating. So
were you meditating back then? No,

1408
01:57:56.920 --> 01:58:00.680
I mean, as it's for me, it started around really young, so

1409
01:58:01.600 --> 01:58:08.840
there's no concept of meditation. And
again, those the original entities that I

1410
01:58:09.000 --> 01:58:13.640
saw, I don't know to this
day if they were associated with the UFO

1411
01:58:13.720 --> 01:58:20.359
phenomenon or not. I could speculate
that they were, but I really don't

1412
01:58:20.439 --> 01:58:26.960
know. There was a telepathic thing
for certain, and again that's what we

1413
01:58:27.039 --> 01:58:32.920
were talking about before. Is that
a technological or kind of metaphysical technology?

1414
01:58:33.000 --> 01:58:36.359
I don't know, And you know, I'm in the same boat as you

1415
01:58:36.520 --> 01:58:41.039
where, you know, I don't
have all these answers I wish I did,

1416
01:58:41.079 --> 01:58:44.439
And that's kind of partially what keeps
me going is, you know,

1417
01:58:45.199 --> 01:58:50.119
maybe I'll gain some insight into you
know, not only what this is,

1418
01:58:50.239 --> 01:58:57.159
but why did this happen to me? And is there something that in light

1419
01:58:57.239 --> 01:59:00.720
of these experiences I can contribute to, you know, the bigger picture of

1420
01:59:00.800 --> 01:59:08.880
what's going on. Are other people
having these experiences or people who are just

1421
01:59:09.079 --> 01:59:12.880
curious about it? Or is there
something a bigger role that I don't even

1422
01:59:13.000 --> 01:59:17.119
understand yet. There's a lot to
unpack here. But one thing I want

1423
01:59:17.159 --> 01:59:21.159
to ask Max. Are you in
Peterborough near like fifty miles from Berryston Edmunds.

1424
01:59:23.560 --> 01:59:27.079
Yeah? Yeah, cool? All
right, So when I come to

1425
01:59:27.199 --> 01:59:30.880
Milden Hall, I'm gonna call you
in June, so I gotta spend like

1426
01:59:30.920 --> 01:59:33.800
a week at Milden Hall, So
definitely want to meet up with some of

1427
01:59:33.880 --> 01:59:38.199
my friends from UFO Twitter during that. Sure, I'd love to do that,

1428
01:59:38.600 --> 01:59:41.720
but let's go round. Let's go
around the horn. Nathan, do

1429
01:59:41.800 --> 01:59:45.960
you have any final comments because we're
gonna have Max back on for the experience

1430
01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:50.600
her round table. Actually, James
is doing Contact Week coming up like really

1431
01:59:50.760 --> 01:59:54.600
soon, so I, Nathan and
I will have to see if we can

1432
01:59:54.680 --> 01:59:57.840
put it together in a short period
of time. So he and I will

1433
01:59:58.279 --> 02:00:02.000
and Nakashi Chris will will pow wow
and see if we could put something together.

1434
02:00:03.119 --> 02:00:05.680
But do you have anything that you
want to as we go around the

1435
02:00:05.760 --> 02:00:10.520
room, Nathan, Yeah, I
just wanted to say thank you to James

1436
02:00:10.640 --> 02:00:14.720
for one coming on our show,
but two, James, I think you're

1437
02:00:14.760 --> 02:00:20.640
one of the hardest working guys in
UFO Twitter, and I'm continually impressed by

1438
02:00:20.760 --> 02:00:25.319
all that you do and the content
that you put out. I know how

1439
02:00:25.399 --> 02:00:28.840
much it takes to do this kind
of thing, and you're doing two shows

1440
02:00:29.439 --> 02:00:31.279
and you have a cee if I
have a Facebook group that I know you've

1441
02:00:31.680 --> 02:00:36.479
been very active with, and it
takes a lot. And I wanted just

1442
02:00:36.640 --> 02:00:42.479
you to know that it means a
lot to me what you do and I

1443
02:00:42.760 --> 02:00:45.560
personally like I probably wouldn't be doing
this if I didn't have kind of the

1444
02:00:45.680 --> 02:00:50.000
encouragement that you've offered, as well
as the kind of the path that you've

1445
02:00:50.560 --> 02:00:55.520
you've laid out for folks like me
and DJ to kind of do this type

1446
02:00:55.560 --> 02:00:58.439
of thing. So I just I
really wanted to say thank you more than

1447
02:00:58.439 --> 02:01:02.239
anything, and wanted to encourage you
to continue to do whatever is on your

1448
02:01:02.279 --> 02:01:06.159
heart to do. But also,
and I know you probably hear this from

1449
02:01:06.199 --> 02:01:09.560
all plant kinds of people, you
know, make sure you take care of

1450
02:01:09.560 --> 02:01:13.000
yourself at the same time, you
know, Yeah, so you gotta have

1451
02:01:13.039 --> 02:01:15.000
those rest days. Man, Yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't have said

1452
02:01:15.039 --> 02:01:18.840
that any better. I appreciate that, and I'm honored by that. And

1453
02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:25.920
you know, I think that it's
just, you know, I partially feel

1454
02:01:25.920 --> 02:01:30.640
a responsibility and and and kind of
again, maybe it's just something I'm telling

1455
02:01:30.720 --> 02:01:33.079
myself, but this is, uh, you know, my participation is my

1456
02:01:33.159 --> 02:01:38.079
way of paying the forward, and
you know, I think it's you know,

1457
02:01:38.159 --> 02:01:43.800
if you know, partially my dharma. If I can use that kind

1458
02:01:43.800 --> 02:01:50.079
of terminology, I think it's it's
important. And you know, if there's

1459
02:01:50.319 --> 02:01:56.359
you know, anything I can do
to participate in the in the greater picture

1460
02:01:56.399 --> 02:02:00.640
of something that I had experience with. You know, I'm happy to do

1461
02:02:00.760 --> 02:02:04.640
it. You know, I feel
obligated in a sense to you know,

1462
02:02:04.760 --> 02:02:11.920
and I hope I can help.
That's that's all you are definitely absolutely yeah,

1463
02:02:12.359 --> 02:02:16.840
sure. I mean you guys are
are already doing great things. So

1464
02:02:17.239 --> 02:02:24.319
I mean just I mean I probably
came onto the scene more publicly just a

1465
02:02:24.439 --> 02:02:28.239
tiny bit before you, but there's
going to be the same effect where you're

1466
02:02:28.319 --> 02:02:31.399
paving the road for others as well. Yeah, we just like to create

1467
02:02:32.319 --> 02:02:36.319
a safe space and open space,
and like we just I think we just

1468
02:02:36.359 --> 02:02:42.039
saw Max do that and that if
he felt comfortable to tell his story,

1469
02:02:42.159 --> 02:02:45.039
then mission accomplished. And when you
come on our show, we want you

1470
02:02:45.560 --> 02:02:51.199
to feel like you're the most important
person in the room and that how much

1471
02:02:51.279 --> 02:02:55.600
we value you being here. I
think Nathan just stated it even better than

1472
02:02:55.640 --> 02:02:59.640
I can. But but yeah,
that's basically you got it. Mission accomplished.

1473
02:03:00.640 --> 02:03:04.279
And I'm super excited because next month
I'm gonna see Nathan in North Carolina.

1474
02:03:04.840 --> 02:03:09.840
January, I'm going home to New
York. I'm gonna see James either

1475
02:03:10.000 --> 02:03:13.600
for something at the diner, which
is probably for him is gonna be like

1476
02:03:13.720 --> 02:03:18.720
bacon egg whites, maybe not even
toast. And then or maybe yoga practice

1477
02:03:18.760 --> 02:03:25.640
down at at Prana Yoga Prana moon
in peak skill. And then in June,

1478
02:03:26.640 --> 02:03:30.680
I get to go back to my
favorite place on Earth other than here,

1479
02:03:30.520 --> 02:03:34.600
United Kingdom, go to RM Milden
Hall and then uh, and then

1480
02:03:34.640 --> 02:03:39.439
maybe I'll see my homie Max.
So for a chippy and a beer.

1481
02:03:39.520 --> 02:03:46.399
Who knows? All right? Man, Okay, what's that brother, We're

1482
02:03:46.399 --> 02:03:49.000
gonna have a workout together, you
work out, let's do it, man,

1483
02:03:50.199 --> 02:03:53.319
Yeah, James, Man, I'll
tell you what, man, this

1484
02:03:53.479 --> 02:03:56.279
daye is fit. Man. We'll
go get some all right. Let's bring

1485
02:03:56.359 --> 02:03:59.880
Akashi Chris on if we can,
so we can say goodbye to the whole.

1486
02:04:00.199 --> 02:04:05.319
Hey, there's associate producer Nakashi Chris. Everyone do a little bit of

1487
02:04:05.399 --> 02:04:12.880
Count Dracula. Thank you, Yeah, and one of your story Max,

1488
02:04:13.119 --> 02:04:17.000
thank you so much. It's amazing
and I's awesome, Nathan. Did I

1489
02:04:17.079 --> 02:04:19.159
do a good description of it at
least? Oh? Yeah? No?

1490
02:04:19.319 --> 02:04:23.760
I actually, well, I had
even heard his story on spaces before.

1491
02:04:23.800 --> 02:04:27.000
I didn't know that i'd heard it
before, but it's like I heard it

1492
02:04:27.039 --> 02:04:29.279
for the first time. It's just
very powerful, and Max, I really

1493
02:04:29.319 --> 02:04:31.640
appreciate you sharing that with us.
Thank you. Just like James said,

1494
02:04:31.960 --> 02:04:36.399
like the work that you guys are
doing is important because what I realized is

1495
02:04:36.680 --> 02:04:41.520
it helps people that are going through
the same to realize that they're not alone,

1496
02:04:41.720 --> 02:04:44.800
because we always feel like we're alone
when we go through things like this.

1497
02:04:45.000 --> 02:04:49.119
Traumatizing things can be traumatizing. It
can be beautiful to recognize that,

1498
02:04:49.600 --> 02:04:54.960
but we as human beings tend to
feel like we're all alone. You know,

1499
02:04:55.079 --> 02:04:58.479
we're not, and so it's important
to be able to share these things.

1500
02:04:59.000 --> 02:05:02.640
And I I just want to help
other people as well. We will.

1501
02:05:02.760 --> 02:05:06.279
We want to make sure that nobody, everybody has a safe space to

1502
02:05:06.399 --> 02:05:11.159
tell their story. And nobody has
to prove shit to nobody. That's that's

1503
02:05:11.159 --> 02:05:13.920
the bottom line. You don't have
to prove a damn thing to anybody on

1504
02:05:14.000 --> 02:05:17.039
this planet. So all right,
man, thank you all for being on

1505
02:05:17.520 --> 02:05:21.479
Calling All beings. If you're on
the YouTube, like subscribe. I think

1506
02:05:21.520 --> 02:05:28.119
we got to five twenty five today, We're hot. Twenty six is really

1507
02:05:28.239 --> 02:05:31.640
me tomorrow? Yeah, is more
than we were. Really, it's kind

1508
02:05:31.680 --> 02:05:34.520
of it's kind of excess, you
know, it's like too much cheese on

1509
02:05:34.600 --> 02:05:40.359
a pizza. Whatever. Thank you
so much for joining us. It's an

1510
02:05:40.439 --> 02:05:43.920
honor. So for Akashi, Chris, for Nathan, for Max McKay from

1511
02:05:43.960 --> 02:05:47.560
the UK, and for James,
I and Dolly engage in the phenomenon.

1512
02:05:49.439 --> 02:05:55.680
Put hands together and thank you.
Thank you everybody. Peace out, one

1513
02:05:55.800 --> 02:05:58.239
love and as I always say,
we'll see you down the road. We

1514
02:05:58.439 --> 02:06:01.159
always wonder what's up around the That's
right, peace y'all. Thank you,