WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:12.359 Hi, y'all, welcome to coming out pod. Okay, I'm almost surprised 2 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:17.199 that I have not yet gotten to this particular queer root. Shout out it 3 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:21.559 is. You'll be shocked to find out one that is close to my heart. 4 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:28.399 Shout out to you if your queer root is Piper Parabo, an actress 5 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:36.479 who unfortunately is a straight lady as far as I know. But Piper Parabou 6 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:40.920 has been in three movies that are extremely important to the queer community. They 7 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:46.039 are, of course, Coyote, Ugly Lost, and Delirious and imagine me 8 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:52.039 and you three very different films, but all just I don't know, really 9 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:58.960 really pivotal works. So yeah, shout out to you if Piper Parabo and 10 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:07.519 her canon of cinema played any part in your queer awakening. Folks, my 11 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:15.159 guest today has an absolutely gorgeous French name that I fear I am about to 12 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:19.200 butcher. Spoiler alert she is. She is, in fact French. She's 13 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:26.120 coming to us from Montreal. I am here today with author Julie del Port. 14 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.439 How did I know on that, Julie? Would you like to say 15 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:37.319 your beautiful French name for us? Juliet? Wow, I was really so 16 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:42.319 close. Yes, So if you are listening to this episode on the day 17 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:47.840 that it has come out, Wednesday the seventeenth, that means that just yesterday, 18 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:53.200 Tuesday the sixteenth, Julie's latest book is out and it is available for 19 00:01:53.280 --> 00:02:00.640 sale. It is called Portrait of a Body and it is it's truly gorgeous. 20 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.680 We were talking off Mike and uh uh, Julie thinks that the best 21 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:08.199 you know way to describe the book in English is a graphic novel, but 22 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:14.000 I honestly don't even think that does it justice. It's uh. Julie has 23 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:19.280 done all of the illustrations in the book herself as well as the as the 24 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:27.120 writing, and it's it's truly, it's just really beautiful. I I loved 25 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:31.319 reading it. I was I was very moved by it. And yeah, 26 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:37.120 as someone who doesn't have a ton of experience reading graphic novels or books with 27 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.719 illustrations at all, I the the interplay between what you drew and and your 28 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:46.319 writing is just it's it's really powerful, truly gorgeous. Julie, is there 29 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:53.159 is there anything that that you want to say about the book before we sort 30 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:59.000 of dive into it all about about the form of the book. Maybe it's 31 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:04.240 a graphic novel and it's also a bit of poetry, a bit of essay. 32 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:08.280 So I say it's a queer book. Like the form of the book 33 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:16.560 is queer. It's between different genre. That's that's a perfect way to describe 34 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:22.199 it. Am I right? I know very little about Am I right? 35 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:29.199 That their colored pencil sketch the medium is it's it looks like colored pencil drugs, 36 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:34.199 if I'm right. Yes, yes, it is with like the kind 37 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:39.919 of colorp pencil we used to use when we were kids, except they are 38 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.840 a bit more fancy, you know, the one I use. But there 39 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:51.479 is something connected to children drawing very deep in what I do. Yeah, 40 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:57.840 I'm just I'm so excited to talk to you about as an author added illustrator. 41 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:02.240 But before we that, Julie, for the folks at home, how 42 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:12.960 do you identify? I identify as a lesbian, also as queer because it's 43 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:19.519 larger and I think more and more, I identify as a non binary person. 44 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:25.839 But it's pretty new. Actually, I'm still like, I'm still thinking 45 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:30.199 of it a lot, but yeah, still fluid a bit, but it's 46 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:36.759 around this and I'm always curious when I have guessed who's whose first language isn't 47 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:43.120 English? Is there is the word is like the English word queer used in 48 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:47.439 French or is there an equivalent French word? And then since pronouns are so 49 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:55.120 much more prominent in French, Spanish, Italian languages like that, how does 50 00:04:55.319 --> 00:05:00.519 how do people's pronouns sort of? How does that all that work? In 51 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:05.120 French, we use the word queer like if it was a French word, 52 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:11.720 but some people would not know what it means because it's not a French world 53 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:15.600 at the beginning. I mean, once I wrote it on my Instagram and 54 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:20.519 my mother asked me what does that mean? Like she pronounced it like it 55 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:27.959 was a French word, But for the pronounce it's kind of tricky. I 56 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:35.040 think we use mostly there is a different pronounce that pronounce then you can use 57 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:44.399 to replace the e or the she. But the most common is yell, 58 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:50.160 which is a mix of ill and L. But some like the queer people 59 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:56.920 use it for sure, but the society is not ready yet for this pronoun. 60 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:00.319 It's pretty rare, and so that would be like a quiver and to 61 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:04.759 say them it sounds like, yeah, that's really all I love that. 62 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:10.120 That's cool. So it's like a combination of the male and female pronouns. 63 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:19.360 That's very cool. So okay, So Julie's book is essentially it is a 64 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:25.600 coming out story. So it's you know, it's impossible to I think, 65 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:30.120 to talk about one without the other. So we'll sort of weave the book 66 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:35.199 into our conversation. But yeah, in terms of your coming out story, 67 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:42.040 Julie, where does it all begin? Yeah, it's so complicated, I 68 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.480 mean the story, the story is so complicated. I think that I wanted 69 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:49.879 to write a book about it to find the real story. But well, 70 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:55.839 for me, it happened late. That's one of the things I'm talking about 71 00:06:55.879 --> 00:07:02.959 the book. I mean, the concrete coming out was around thirty five years 72 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.920 old, which is not so old, but it felt so old for me 73 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:13.360 really, and yeah, like for a long time. Well, I grew 74 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:19.879 up in countries, in a village in the countryside in France. I mean 75 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:27.759 I never I don't think I saw a lesbian before I was maybe eighteen nineteen 76 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.800 at that time. On TV, we didn't see any I mean sure, 77 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:39.199 I remember just watching a French comedy very bad with all the stereo tips. 78 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:48.399 You don't want to see about butch so it was not an option really for 79 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:55.959 me. And then I grew up, and it's a letter that I started 80 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.800 to have friends who were queer, but maybe around twenty five years old, 81 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:07.759 and I remember I was just thinking one of my lesbian friend who is doing 82 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.519 comics too, and I was just thinking, she's so lucky. I wish 83 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:18.319 I was a lesbian. And it's all my story. It's like I was. 84 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:26.240 I started to make a book on Tove Jansen, my former book before 85 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:31.839 a Portrait of a Body. It's called this Woman's Work, and it's the 86 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:37.600 story. It's it's a story of I go to Finland to study Tove Jansen, 87 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:46.120 which is a Finnish author who wrote she invented the mooming creature. My 88 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.639 mom used to read me though, Oh yeah story, yeah when I was 89 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.639 little. Yeah, finn family movementarial was and I had no idea until I 90 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:01.399 read your book that she was queer. Yeah, so it was really exciting 91 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:07.200 to learn that the other day. Yeah, I I went to study and 92 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.960 wanted to write a book about her. And I started to read the all 93 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:18.360 the autobiography, well all the biographies were written about her life, and I 94 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:22.919 was just in love of her life. She was so independent, she would 95 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:31.480 camp on highlands and I want. It's the first time I remember. I 96 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.559 was with my therapist and I was talking about the way I wanted to be 97 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:41.080 like Tove Jansen, and it was like, oh, so she's your model, 98 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.840 like the idea of having a model, and I was okay, yes, 99 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:54.039 Like never before I had met a woman figure who I wanted really to 100 00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:00.200 identify. So I discovered she's my model. And then I'm like, wait, 101 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:09.039 but she's a lesbian, so yeah, and all this there was like 102 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:16.200 something like I was tucked because I had this idea that if I was a 103 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:22.000 lesbian, I should fall in love deeply with someone, and all the stories 104 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:28.039 I've heard about letter in life lesbian, it was like, oh, and 105 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.279 I fall in love. I fell in love with this girl, but that 106 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:39.200 didn't happen. I just fell in love with lesbian in general. And yeah, 107 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:48.080 yeah, and I mean I'm not someone. I'm not someone like. 108 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.279 It's something I tried to explore in the book. Also, I'm not super 109 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:58.080 connected to my body and to my sexuality because of trauma and because of culture 110 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:05.399 and my family and everything. So yeah, I needed to open a way 111 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:11.080 so that desire come. It didn't come to me like that, I had 112 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:16.600 to make pace, and once I've made it, I was like, Okay, 113 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:22.679 this is it. Yeah, I'm so glad that you're talking about this, 114 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:24.919 and was equally glad to read about this in the book, because I 115 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:33.440 do think that the idea of realizing specifically that you are a lesbian, in 116 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:41.840 kind of queer folklore, it does get very glamorized as what you're saying, 117 00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:46.759 where it's like you fall in love and it's like I never felt this way 118 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.600 before with men, and like, oh my god, my world has opened 119 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:54.480 up and I'm seeing the sun for the colors or brighter, like it is 120 00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:00.639 very which is beautiful and which many people do feel, but not everybody, 121 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:05.320 and it doesn't have to be connected to a lot of later in life. 122 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.360 Lesbians, it is true, do realize because they fall in love with a 123 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.759 specific person and then in many cases that person ends up being their partner for 124 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.799 the rest of our life. That is definitely there is precedent for that, 125 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.840 but not everybody. And it's also I think that for some people who are 126 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:26.279 maybe realizing it just more generally or more slowly, it might feel you maybe 127 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:31.840 question it because you're like, well, I'm not feeling it as like fireworks 128 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:37.440 are glamorously as I've heard, Does that mean I'm not really a lesbian and 129 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:43.120 it's like no, everyone, Yeah, I do think we do sometimes have 130 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:48.279 a reverence for it that not everybody is going to feel. And it's still 131 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:56.919 totally valid to not like feel those flowery you know. Does that make sense? 132 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:58.879 I was just really glad to hear somebody talk about it in a more 133 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:05.039 sort of I don't know, I relate. I feel like, Okay, 134 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:09.080 that's a lot of what you were talking about. Yeah, yeah, in 135 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.080 terms of the well, first of all, have you always been an artist? 136 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.320 Did that sort of go hand in hand with your writing or how did 137 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.080 that evolve for you? I started to be an artist pretty late too. 138 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:28.799 I'm someone who is late in life. So I used to when I was 139 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.559 a kid, I used to not to draw, but to write a lot. 140 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:39.200 I wanted to be a writer, but it was not really like I 141 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.000 needed to find more a job. So I studied in journalism, but didn't 142 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:48.919 like the news so much. So yeah, and then I studied in cinema. 143 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.879 Maybe I wanted to be a teacher, I didn't know. And then 144 00:13:52.919 --> 00:14:01.120 I studied to draw and write and to magazines and it became better at it, 145 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:05.799 and I felt that, Yeah, for a long time I was working 146 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:11.559 in bookstore and still doing books, but no, I can write and draw 147 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.679 full time. Yeah. God, that's incredible. Yeah, And I guess 148 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.840 my question about the drawings is, so some of them are very literal in 149 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:26.039 terms of what is being spoken about in the book. I love especially like 150 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:28.679 you draw, you know, like a little image from the movie Go Fish 151 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.600 like things that stuck out to you. But then some of the drawings are 152 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:39.799 a lot more abstract or it's like it's an image that maybe doesn't necessarily link 153 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:46.799 up directly with the text. And I'm wondering, how how did that as 154 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.559 somebody who doesn't draw, how did that work out? Is it just like 155 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:54.120 you felt like, ah, this paragraph wants me to draw starfish? I 156 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:58.960 don't know why. I just like, how did that happen? No, 157 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:05.159 I am. I wrote the text separately. Then Okay. Then I did 158 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:11.919 all the images like for for maybe two years in total to make the books. 159 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:20.039 And I did a lot of drawings, and I was trying to have 160 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:26.240 some fun enjoy while I was drawing, which is not easy all the time. 161 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:31.279 So then I told myself, Okay, you're gonna just draw whatever you 162 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.240 want to draw, and it happened to be a lot of things from nature. 163 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:43.039 I started to draw flowers, starfish, and I was working also my 164 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:48.960 text, and at some points I had a lot of drawings and my text 165 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.799 and I just did the mortage. Kat I would say yeah, yeah, 166 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.720 like an experimental movie a bit, and my text would be the voice over, 167 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:06.639 and you could see like these images, yeah are sometimes connected to the 168 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.519 text. Sometimes they are not, but they still give a mood like, 169 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:18.600 yeah, that's so you wrote all of the text first. That's so interesting. 170 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:26.039 Yeah, okay, I love knowing that. Not maybe not first it 171 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.240 was in the same time, but not like, for instance, the morning 172 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:34.399 I would draw for three hours and the afternoon I would do like some drawings, 173 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:40.200 but I didn't know which drawing would go with Oh gotcha, okay, 174 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.840 which part of the book? Yeah, that's very cool, And I love 175 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.480 how at the end of the book you, I think the right word is 176 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:55.320 you annotate all of the drawings, so you really explain what they all are 177 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:56.919 and what they mean. And it looks like a lot of them are based 178 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:02.960 on photographs. Yeah, are and are those photographs that you took that you 179 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:15.200 were actually like, yes, I was like several times during the time I 180 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:22.960 was doing the book, I was lucky to travel to some places by the 181 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:30.240 Salver or like different places in Quebec, and it was like a bit of 182 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:37.759 artists residency of just visiting friends. Uh, and I would take long walks 183 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:45.599 on on the near the river and to start to take details of what I 184 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:53.519 like from what I see. What I saw so like picture of alg ho 185 00:17:53.559 --> 00:18:00.279 would you say seaweeds? Picture seaweeds? Yeah, yeah, you said better 186 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:06.920 than me, and these kind of things detail. So it's it's a bad 187 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.200 picture. It's just like reference when and then because I need to be more 188 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.920 well set up at my desk to draw. So then I would draw at 189 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:22.599 my desk looking at the little picture, try to the idea was like out 190 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:30.519 the the text was so so yeah, yeah, it was not easy to 191 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:38.319 find out to illustrate it, like I am, there's nothing really to there's 192 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:44.799 no That's what I was wondering. You just how you're just like feeling what 193 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:49.400 you want to. It's not it's not dictated. The text doesn't always dictate 194 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:55.519 the exact illustrations and more creates like a mood yeah like that. Yeah, 195 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:59.400 and it felt like there was a lot of like like water imagery, like 196 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:04.920 see imagery like you were just talking about. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, 197 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:10.240 And I didn't do it on purpose, but the more I was drawing 198 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:18.960 from details of nature, the more you could you could project some body parts 199 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:26.119 in the drawings, like you could see some skin or even some organs like 200 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.240 in the flower it's crazy, like you can see like some sexual organs. 201 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:37.039 Yeah for sure. Yeah. And then I didn't know her really, but 202 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:42.720 I discover Georgia O'Keeffe the people. Yeah, but you weren't doing that consciously 203 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:47.880 like you you found out. Yeah, so interesting. I thought it was 204 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.279 maybe like an homage to Georgia. No, that's so cool. I ended 205 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.440 up to draw drawing like an homage that I put it in the book because 206 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.319 when I discover her, I was like, oh my god, that's that's 207 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.920 what I'm trying to do. Like, I mean, yeah, drawing is 208 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:07.079 different, but that was the same. So cool. That's so cool. 209 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:14.279 Yeah. And another question that I had was, so I have a friend 210 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.279 right now who with her therapist, they do art therapy. And because you're 211 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:25.039 an artist and because you know your therapist does get mentioned in the book and 212 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:32.440 like dealing with trauma and healing all that is. Is art therapy something that 213 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.000 you ever did or are those things separate for you in terms of like, 214 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:45.119 yeah, I'm just curious, I never did the art therapy in my therapy, 215 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:53.720 sum how do you say that in my Road your Journey journey? Yes, 216 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:02.640 so I never did, like forma art therapy. Sure, but I 217 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:07.160 think I use my art, which is a professional way of doing art, 218 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.839 also as a therapy, like it's part of it. Yeah, it's not 219 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:18.480 less serious because it's therapeutical, but sure it's connected the Yeah. Yeah, 220 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:25.920 I feel like for anyone who's creative, it's sort of impossible not to process 221 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.079 through I mean, I think comedians process trauma and pain through their jokes. 222 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.480 I think obviously authors do it through their writing, and I think artists it'll 223 00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:41.440 pop up even if you're not consciously doing it. But yeah, yeah, 224 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.200 I'm not that surprised. It seems like the therapist mentioned in the book was 225 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:53.759 not the greatest therapist in terms of the guidance. No, yeah, yeah, 226 00:21:55.559 --> 00:22:00.400 I'm not saying im anymore good. I don't think you were. I 227 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.960 have a very good type. Now, yeah, I need therapy a lot 228 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:11.920 like this is something same. But I was a bit harsh with with him, 229 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:19.720 with this trapist who would with not with a bit of morphobic but without 230 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.759 knowing it or without Yeah, but because he helped me. It was also 231 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:32.640 a good Trappist for our years, and we know I expected maybe more. 232 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:41.799 And also it was not the good Okay, that's complicated, maybe to explain 233 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:48.319 approach for me, like it was an anactic, analytic, analytical, yeah, 234 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.400 analytical approach as opposed to a more sort of emotional yeah, and like 235 00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:02.519 discovery yeah yeah, and yeah, I'm not into an a political therapy anymore. 236 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:08.559 It Yeah, it's true. I don't know. Sure, yeah, 237 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.559 No, I'm a huge therapy fan. The podcast is very pro therapy. 238 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:18.920 So I'm glad that you found somebody who is more. Uh. Yeah, 239 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:30.519 I didn't. I didn't love the his take on no yeah, yeah, 240 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.759 yeah, And so I don't know. In terms of being a I tend 241 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:41.319 to say later in life lesbian as opposed to late in life because exactly like 242 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.599 you said, thirty five is still it's still young. But I also want 243 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:49.240 to validate the fact that it feels like, oh I lost so much time, 244 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:52.920 or like it feels old but in the general scheme of things is not, 245 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:57.839 so I try to use the word later. Okay, so yeah, 246 00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:02.200 that's just me personally. Late in life is the term. I just think, 247 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:07.279 like, thirty five is not even that late. I used to facilitate 248 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.799 a coming out workshop, and the first one I ever did, I had 249 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:14.079 a woman who was sixty five and her name was Anne, and so for 250 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.279 years I used to say, if you're not older than Anne, you're not 251 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.160 late in life, because Anne was sixty five. And that worked for a 252 00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.759 number of years, and then one day someone raised their hand and was like, 253 00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:26.119 I'm seventy and I was like, oh, yeah, you're late in 254 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:32.759 life. You get the title. But yeah, so do you want to 255 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:38.680 talk a little bit about since it wasn't directly connected to a person for you, 256 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:44.119 like we talked about and you just I love the way you describe it 257 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.000 in your book, just in terms of being sort of enamored with the concept 258 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:53.799 of lesbian even before you knew it was just like the cultural or I don't 259 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:56.920 know, there was something that do you want to talk about that? And 260 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:02.720 then meeting somebody as opposed to a lot of people meeting somebody and then having 261 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:07.960 to figure out all of the cultural elements. It's like you reverse engineered it 262 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:14.119 is I guess what we would call it. Okay, so what can what 263 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.839 can I say? But there's the things that I tell in the book. 264 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:26.440 There's described in the book. Honestly just read them. But I would there 265 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:36.680 was this well before, like when I allowed myself to to tell myself, 266 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:41.640 Okay, I think I might be a lesbian. I should try. Then 267 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.920 I was very conscious about, you know, not hurting anyone by trying, 268 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:55.359 like you know, that's I felt a shame of Hell, I'm thirty five 269 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:59.079 years old. I think I need to try because I think I'm a lesbian. 270 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.039 You know. That was not a comfortable position. But I had for 271 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.279 this time. I had so much crushes, Like I would just like, 272 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:15.200 yeah, some of these people, they still don't know it that I had 273 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:22.920 like huge crush on there and I had. At some point I had a 274 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:29.680 friend. I was talking about her about my doubts and my question and she 275 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.519 was, yeah, I have the same doubts, the same question. And 276 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:40.039 she told me, but I don't think I'm a lesbian because I don't the 277 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:51.279 world in French is erotic, eroticiz okay, gotcha? I don't eroticize women. 278 00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.240 And then I was like, oh, well, I don't neiser, 279 00:26:53.799 --> 00:27:03.079 but I don't really eroticize men easier. What I'm doing that is very naiva, 280 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.839 I don't know, disconnected, I think, And yeah, people have 281 00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:14.759 different relationships to their bodies, and not everyone is going to feel this like 282 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:18.960 overwhelming lust for women and that's how they know they're lesbian. Like that's not 283 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.920 everybody. That's a lot of people, but it's not everybody. Yeah, 284 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:30.480 what I was So, it's so maybe there is like you know, I 285 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:38.000 don't have any official maybe that's close to I'm not on the spectrum, but 286 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:45.839 you know, maybe my brain has some particularities that makes the story like that. 287 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.519 And when she said that, like I remember I saw her maybe a 288 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:56.039 few years after. We were working face to face on our computer and she 289 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:04.920 made like a very simple movement and on our shoulder, so like just scratching 290 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.839 your shoulder, and I saw a shoulder and the shoulder was really nice, 291 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:14.440 and I was like, Okay, this is I think I'm doing it, 292 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:21.240 like isizing that part of our body you're around sizing her shoulder. I love 293 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:25.279 the way you describe that in the book because it is such a specific I 294 00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:30.440 think it's so relatable, those tiny little moments that you remember so vividly, 295 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:34.279 where it's literally just someone like moving their shirt and you see like a little 296 00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:37.039 bit of their shoulder and that just sticks in your mouth, like and that 297 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:44.200 clicks something like. I just I loved how you describe that. Yeah, 298 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:48.720 it's like I needed to be allowed to do that, or to be introduced 299 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.319 to the possibility of doing that. I don't know. Yeah, maybe I 300 00:28:53.519 --> 00:29:02.359 was too like, yeah, I've been abused in my childhoods. That's part 301 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:07.680 of the book or so, and I think it's for me, it's very 302 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:15.920 important not to abuse anymore and to be respectful. And I'm it's it's not 303 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:22.599 like it's complicated also the concept I'm trying to say. But I think for 304 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:32.279 a long time, maybe I have struggled between maybe evoticization was too much connected 305 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:38.720 to abuse, or so I was just not going not going there something like 306 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:47.160 that. Maybe maybe it's one of the options of why, Yeah, that's 307 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:52.880 really it comes from a tragic place, but it's really lovely that you were 308 00:29:53.599 --> 00:30:00.880 taking other people's feelings into account so much in terms of now wanting to hurt 309 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:08.960 anybody. That's just like really, that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 310 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:15.720 I've read them during that moment. I've read a lot of books written 311 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:23.440 by queer women, and I also had friends who were queer, and I 312 00:30:25.640 --> 00:30:33.640 heard so much about the story about them being hurted by aterosexual women who were 313 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:40.240 curious and played with them. And I don't know how much it happens, 314 00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:48.359 but I was so cautious. I didn't want to do that. Love of 315 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:52.680 you, I wish everyone put that much care into all of that, not 316 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.880 just relationships where it's like maybe their first queer relationship, but I just wish 317 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:03.039 everyone put that much care into every interaction that they have. And for folks 318 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.559 who listen to the podcast a lot, they have certainly heard me say this 319 00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.359 before, but maybe this is someone's first episode. So I my point of 320 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.319 view on that because as someone who does facilitate, like I said, coming 321 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:22.799 out workshops or just general social groups where people are newly out female identified people, 322 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:27.799 there is a really big fear about that from a lot of them because 323 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:33.519 we have heard that narrative not just in TV and film, although it's in 324 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:38.880 TV and film a lot, but in real life of somebody falling or getting 325 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:44.960 involved with a quote unquote straight woman, and then the woman quote unquote goes 326 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.519 back to men. And I'm not even going to broach the topic of bisexuality 327 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.680 pan sexuality. We've talked about that so much in past episodes, but I 328 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:59.279 will say, like, sure, there are some women who maybe they really 329 00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:02.680 are straight and they just wanted to experiment, or maybe they are by but 330 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:07.480 they're like ninety five percent they lean more towards men, And no one should 331 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:13.759 ever be purposely playing with somebody's emotions or anything like that. All of that 332 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:19.640 being said, it hurts me that so many women in your position are scared 333 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:28.279 to try to discover things about themselves because they're so afraid of falling into that 334 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:34.079 narrative of the straight woman who breaks the heart of the poor lesbian. Like 335 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:38.279 it's just it is. And I always tell people like, you can be 336 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:44.960 as upfront about that as you like, a lot of people are like I 337 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.000 shouldn't say that I've never dated a woman before, or no one's gonna want 338 00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:52.440 to date me, Like they'll they'll stay away from me. Some people do 339 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:57.279 have trauma with that and will not want to date somebody who's never been with 340 00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:01.279 a woman before. But you want, you don't want to date those people. 341 00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:05.599 They're not the right people for you because they have their own trauma and 342 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.039 that's okay. They're not bad people because of that, but that's not gonna 343 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:12.839 be a good match. I swear on my life though. There are so 344 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:17.119 many women who are okay with people, And if you're candid and you say 345 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:21.240 I haven't been with women before, they'll be like, thank you for letting 346 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:22.839 me know that that's okay, and they're not going to like storm out of 347 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.960 the restaurant, like, and those are the people that it's healthier for you 348 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:30.960 to be with anyways. So I just it hurts my heart when women are 349 00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:37.839 afraid to quote unquote admit, especially if they're older, that they've never been 350 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.079 with a woman before, because they're scared that they're gonna like get these reactions 351 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:46.640 from lesbians, which are it does happen. But I promise there are a 352 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.720 lot of women out there who are understanding and they know that everyone has to 353 00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:54.039 have a first time and some people have it a little bit later, and 354 00:33:54.160 --> 00:34:00.480 like, I think as long as both parties are grown ups and communication and 355 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:05.759 honest with their feelings, then that can that can work. So I'm glad 356 00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:09.320 that you talk about that in the book, because it's just it's so hard. 357 00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:15.559 It's yeah, turky situation. It's a bit part of the why of 358 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.920 the book or so it's the to tell people who want to try yeah, 359 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:23.400 just try it, please, yes, exactly. Oh my god, how 360 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:29.039 are you supposed to know if you don't like it's just it's a catch twenty 361 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:35.280 two. It's yeah, And if you do things honestly and carefully, I 362 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:40.639 mean exactly, someone can Like, if you were a lesbian forever, you 363 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:45.880 could also break the art of another lesbian. I mean, that's what love 364 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:50.039 is. Oh my. I've been on so many rants about that, because 365 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.519 if a bisexual woman breaks a lesbian's heart, a lot of lesbians are like, 366 00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:58.079 that's it. I'm never dating another bisexual woman ever again. But if 367 00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.000 a lesbian breaks a lesbian heart, then ever, go, that's it. 368 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:05.079 I'm never dating another libera. It's like people break hearts. It sucks, 369 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.239 but it happens. And I do think there's a real double standard there in 370 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:15.320 terms of the fear of men in the patriarchy. It's like so ever looming. 371 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:20.679 Yeah, yeah, but I love the way you address that. Yeah, 372 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:24.840 I have it in myself too. I know that I was when I 373 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.639 started to have It's not very true actually, because I had crushes also on 374 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:38.400 women who were questioning like myself. But in terms of wanting wanting wanting to 375 00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:45.119 be with a person in a relationship, I knew I wanted to be with 376 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:51.360 a lesbian because I so much wanted to be part of this world that it 377 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:54.920 was not as much I could have maybe fell in love with whoever, but 378 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:05.199 I was more attracted to But you know, it's bad, but we can't 379 00:36:05.320 --> 00:36:12.760 help ourselves. Like a bisexual woman, I would have been less attracted. 380 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:17.199 That's terrible what I'm saying. But no, it's honest, that's okay. 381 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:22.440 Like I used to have my co host, Nicole, who used to it 382 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.960 she's better about talking than this about this that I am, But like she 383 00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:30.320 was so good at speaking to the fact that, like we, we shouldn't 384 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:37.239 feel guilty about a fundamental thing like attraction as long as you're not blatantly being 385 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:44.760 biphobic two people. But if if your history and your experiences tend to make 386 00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:50.199 you more attracted to lesbians, that's okay. I predominantly I'll balance you out 387 00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.320 because I almost always date bisexual women. I am more attracted to bisexual women. 388 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:58.079 So I feel guilty about that for not being more attracted to lesbians. 389 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.639 So like we all carry this guilt that we're supposed to be equally attracted to 390 00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:07.199 everybody and that's what inclusivity means, but like that's not how it really works. 391 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:12.480 Like attraction is this weird ethereal thing that we don't really understand. And 392 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.199 as long as we are treating people kindly and respectfully, it's okay. If 393 00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:21.800 you're not equally attracted to every human being on the planet, Like, it's 394 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:27.239 just not a realistic model. And I think especially for someone who has a 395 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:30.960 lot of a lot of trauma with men in their past, Like, of 396 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:37.000 course, I think it makes sense that you would be more attracted to women 397 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:42.079 who have only been with women because it takes men out of the equation. 398 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.840 And oh yes, I mean I'm guessing, but like I don't think there 399 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:51.440 should be any guilt associated with feelings like that. Yeah, I needed valide 400 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:58.719 Can you say that in English? Like validation? I needed validition from the 401 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:07.119 queer community. I think that's why. And also it's all the it's I 402 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:15.760 feel like sometimes it's not it's not in terms of love and desire, it's 403 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:21.360 not women, but I like, if it's lesbian, it's the Yeah, 404 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:25.880 it's sure. There is a bit of that in the text of moniquviting about 405 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:35.400 not being like about the fact that women, no, lesbian are not women 406 00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:45.440 because there are another category, another social interesting so all that subcategory. Yeah, 407 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:50.320 it's it talks to me with all the default that it does. It 408 00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:57.119 talks to me a lot. Yeah. Sure, So you had had experiences 409 00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:02.800 with women prior to meeting you're now partner. Because you were, you did 410 00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:07.400 find people to explore it, and so I knew by the time you met 411 00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:12.679 your partner you did feel solidly like, I know, I'm a lesbian and 412 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:19.199 I'm looking to enter into a relationship and all of that. Yeah. I 413 00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:30.000 didn't feel confident because I had few experiences, not sure before, but but 414 00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:35.159 I was sure that I wanted that. I mean, yeah, I was 415 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.639 like, Okay, this is it. Yeah. I think she didn't realize 416 00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:45.880 at first I had so few experiences because I I told her but didn't really 417 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:51.920 insist on it because as we talked about it, I was ashamed, and 418 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.840 then she was. I think she was a bit like, Okay, that's 419 00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:05.199 that's kind of a new thing for you like and but we actually was maybe 420 00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:08.320 at some point of being afraid of that, but then we get along so 421 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:16.559 it kept on walking. Does in French? Is there any sort of label 422 00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:22.920 like demi romantic? Is that or demi sexual? Is that something that feels 423 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:28.760 at all relevant to you? Or I'm just curious just because what we've talked 424 00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:36.679 about in terms of not necessarily leading or the sexual feelings weren't necessarily the driving 425 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:42.199 force of you realizing that you were queer. I'm wondering if if there is 426 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:53.280 anything there perhaps what I wrote about the missexual but maybe I don't know it 427 00:40:53.480 --> 00:41:00.480 so much. Is it's not It doesn't it doesn't seem to correspond to me 428 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:07.039 so much. Sure, curious, there is a probably and you can feel 429 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:13.719 it in the book. Something in my story who can be related to some 430 00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:21.480 assexuality spectrum. Sure that's what. Yeah, Yeah, I don't feel the 431 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:30.880 need to identify to it so much because I'm more trying to dig to make 432 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:37.320 the difference between the trauma trouble like what comes from a trauma and it. 433 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:44.559 For me, it's very intense, it's very important this part of the thing. 434 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:52.440 And there is also the fact that as I was telling that I'm probably 435 00:41:52.519 --> 00:42:01.159 a non binary. It's also I realize it because I'm really uncomfortable with some 436 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:13.239 part of my body and that doesn't help either in this in having like sexuality 437 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:22.880 yeah, which is yeah, I don't know, so I am Also I 438 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:35.360 think I try to what I try to say into the book. It's all 439 00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:40.559 the culture, all the contemporary culture, of the modern culture, of the 440 00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:47.119 liberated woman, the modern woman. But it's so much pressure. It was 441 00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:53.639 really a blind spot. We said the expression in French blind spot when something 442 00:42:53.840 --> 00:43:00.719 is good but you forget some part of it. So sexual liberals and great, 443 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:05.960 but put it it put it really a lot of pressure on young women 444 00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:12.320 to be sexual, to be a great. So if you want to be 445 00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:15.760 cool, if you want to be feminist, you need to be you need 446 00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:20.480 to have a lot of libido, you need a lot of section drive. 447 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:24.880 I so agree with what you're saying. So I was just trying to copy 448 00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:31.400 that when I was young, like to emulate myself to be in love with 449 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:38.639 boys and to have experiences, experiences, But I didn't find what I liked, 450 00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:45.920 and I was there was a trauma before, and I think I added 451 00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:53.039 more trauma being like that, like really, really really realizing it. So 452 00:43:53.280 --> 00:44:00.280 no, I feel like my story makes more sense if I consider all this 453 00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:06.679 and make it political. But in a way, it's sure that I can 454 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:14.800 also think of myself as on the a sexual spectrum. I don't know sure 455 00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:20.719 if I explain it, well, you were explaining this to me perfectly, 456 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.719 and I feel like, honestly, I was asking that question as like a 457 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:30.000 clumsy way of getting to what you just spoke about, which is that. 458 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.320 And I am someone who, as far as I know, I've never had 459 00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:39.639 any sort of sexual trauma or any abuse or anything in my past, but 460 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:46.559 I happen to, don't. I don't consider myself like an overtly sexual person. 461 00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:52.480 I'm someone who maybe demi romantic or demisexual might make a little sense for 462 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:58.920 me. And I do feel like sometimes there is a pressure, even in 463 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.440 the queer female community. Oh yes, I do think there is a lot 464 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.280 of emphasis on sex and sexuality for all the reasons you're talking about, because 465 00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:15.719 it's a reclamation of being repressed and of you know, of only being for 466 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.400 the male gaze and all of these things. And that's and that's great, 467 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:23.119 But I do think that sometimes those of us who whether it's because of trauma 468 00:45:23.239 --> 00:45:27.519 or just because of our personality or whatever it is those of us who might 469 00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:35.599 not feel like that sexual or like aren't into all of the different Like I 470 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.960 do feel sometimes like it's like is there, where's where's the place for me? 471 00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:43.920 Like just a boring, vanilla kind of person. And I do. 472 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.199 And I just really like the way you talk about that in the book as 473 00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:51.320 like, Yeah, I don't know, it really struck a chord with me 474 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:57.239 because I do sometimes feel a little out of my element or like not cool 475 00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:02.719 in terms of all the focus on sex. And it's so funny because it's 476 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:08.199 like it's like why are we I feel like we're taking a little bit of 477 00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:15.039 the patriarchy bit where the emphasis is on sections and putting it in lesbianism. 478 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:20.039 And it's like, no, don't do that. But but I also recognize 479 00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.760 it's for some people that is very liberate. I just want there to be 480 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.719 space for all kinds of people. Yeah, And I just I don't know 481 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:36.519 how it's struck a chord. Yeah, I as as women are we we 482 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:44.400 work consider it's it's always wrong our relations our relationship with sexuality is always ye 483 00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:52.480 are too much else It's like you what's the perfect balance of like, yeah, 484 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.199 but I feel like it can be Yeah, you can get side eye 485 00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:59.159 of like not being sex positive and it's like no, no, no, 486 00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.239 I'm fine with you doing it. I just might not like that might not 487 00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:06.320 be me And like, is that okay? Am I still like cool and 488 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:09.039 progressive? Yeah? And I do. Yeah, don't know. That's something 489 00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:15.679 I feel sometimes I feel out of my elements sometimes, yeah, and the 490 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:22.320 the Yeah, the spectrum is interesting. But the a sexual definition it would 491 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:30.280 say I have no sexual attraction for neither women or men, which is not 492 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:37.159 right. Actually yet I have just I have some sometimes a low sex drive. 493 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.840 But sure is it? Maybe maybe it's actually normal. Maybe it's just 494 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:49.840 because of fictions, the movies. Everything is so much based on sex and 495 00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:54.599 because sex is cool, Rush, And I really agree with you. I 496 00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:00.760 remember do you have okay Cupid and that do you know that in sight at 497 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:06.159 all? Yeah? I was. I was on it for a bit way 498 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:09.440 back. But I remember one of the questions that you could fill out was 499 00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:15.239 like, like, my sex drive is lower than average, average, higher 500 00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:19.840 than average, And every single person who, every woman whose profile I read, 501 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.840 said above average. And I was like, well, if everyone's is 502 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:25.800 above average, then that's just average, Like how can everybody be in love? 503 00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:29.000 And it made me feel bad because I was like, well, then 504 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.480 do I have to put lower than average? If everyone saying above average? 505 00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:35.679 Does that make it a curve? Like it was so Yeah, and it 506 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:40.320 made me feel like bad about myself. So it's just weird how sometimes we 507 00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:45.119 inadvertently copy the things we're trying to get away from. Yeah, and I 508 00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:53.400 just your book spoke to that so beautifully and I really appreciated that. Yeah. 509 00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:00.000 Well, I just I cannot emphasize enough how beautiful for this book is, 510 00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:06.239 just in terms of the writing and the illustrated It's just it's a really 511 00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.199 gorgeous book. Yeah, I don't know. I was really moved by it. 512 00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:14.039 I really recommend it. It is now available, So, yeah, 513 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:17.280 Julie, where can people find the book? Where can they find you? 514 00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:21.320 If you'd like to be found, if you're on social media, you have 515 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:23.960 a website, anything like that that you want to that you want to plug. 516 00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:35.159 I think you can find the book in every independent bookstore in the in 517 00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:38.079 the anglophone world. You can. Just if it's not there, I think 518 00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:43.440 you can order. You can ask the bookseller to order it for you. 519 00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:50.599 And if you happen to be in New York City, I will be there 520 00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:54.159 for a festival in March, the Moca FESTI is. That's what I can 521 00:49:54.239 --> 00:50:00.320 say, and I'm there. I have an Instagram you can find there. 522 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:07.719 I'm not very active on it. I tend to sometimes remove it from my 523 00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:15.199 phone, but you can still see throwing awesome. And what is your Instagram? 524 00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:22.599 What's the handle the name of the Instagram. It's just it's my name. 525 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:27.719 It's Julie Delpot Okay, perfect, perfect with on the score at the 526 00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.800 end. But you I'll put it in the in the show notes so that 527 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:34.920 people can find you. Yeah, and I'll put some information about where you 528 00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:42.440 can. And the book is published by Drowning quite early. I don't know 529 00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:46.480 if you if we have said yeah, no, I'll put I'll put all 530 00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:51.719 of that in the show notes. Say okay, And as for me, 531 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:58.599 I am at Lauren Flans on Twitter, Lauren Underscore Flaws on Instagram. The 532 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.639 podcast is at coming Out Pod everywhere. The hashtag is hashtag coming out Pod. 533 00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:07.880 Shout out to my incredible patrons, Thank you too. Carmel kaz Simone, 534 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:14.039 Cayenne, Michelle l Adri, Tanya Pooh, Tia, Kieran Smiley, 535 00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:19.320 Aaron Mitchell, Diego Hernandez and beyond Clexa dot com. And also, if 536 00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:22.880 you would like to help out the podcast for free, a really wonderful way 537 00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:27.599 to do that is to rate it five stars. You can rate it on 538 00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:31.679 either iTunes or Spotify, and on iTunes you can even write a little review 539 00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:37.679 if you would like to. I think thats about it, Julie, this 540 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.719 has been such a pleasure. I'm so thank you also for doing this full 541 00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:45.960 conversation in not your first language. Your English is a billion percent perfect. 542 00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:52.800 Thank you, thank you, thank you. You're greatly to meet you. 543 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:59.679 Thank you for Tony read my accents. Oh my god, you're gorgeous. 544 00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:06.360 Act accent. Tolerating your accent. That is the most like modest way I've 545 00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:12.000 ever a French person described their accent. No, thank you so much. 546 00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:15.519 All right, y'all, I will see you next week. Bye,