What's up everybody? Welcome back to Hobby Hotline on a wonderful Saturday, Labor
Day, Saturday weekend, also the opening weekend, well technically I guess second
weekend, but a real opening weekend week one for college football. My Gators
got destroyed on Thursday, so I was a little bit disappointing. I have
two of my wonderful co hosts here. We have Chris and Horatio. I'll
start with you. Chris, how we're doing what you got great for this
for this weekend? Doing great? I went to Toronto and midweek to see
my soccer team get there. I stand it to them by a last place
scene. But other than that, I'm doing all right. That's right.
I think I saw one of your tweets it was like, I have to
stop going on seven hour road trips to watch the watch the Union. I
thought that was I thought that was a point tweet. Ratio, how about
you going to Columbus at the end of this month? So so so we're
so we're not We're not canceling the trips here. We're still going to love
that, uh Ratio? How you doing this weekend? Doing good? Good
to be back. Adam got back from a vacation, which was not much
of a vacation, I guess when you got three kids. So good to
get back in the singer things here a little bit. I'm a teacher,
so I started the school year this week on Tuesday. So for that big,
big, big week up coming for you. Yeah, I want to
thank everybody over at bench Clear Media for having us here on their YouTube channel
today on this wonderful Saturday, Like I said, Labor Day weekend. Labor
Day weekend. Yeah, very exciting. Actually, a lot of stuff did
happen this week. You know, maybe it's surprising to some you know,
even before this, I was like, we were we weren't even we were
talking about topics and all these kinds of things, and I was like,
we kind of have a lot of stuff here. Hopefully we don't miss anything.
The one thing that we are going to start out with that we'll cover
a little bit. I mean to be honest, the story is still developing,
so we're still getting a lot of the facts. There's still, you
know, some interesting things going on here. We're gonna pull up. There
was an interesting story that developed started developing this week. There was a Jordan
Jersey apparently and Horatia, I'll kick it off to you just because when we
were talking about it seemed like you knew you had followed this pretty closely.
Apparently there was a Jordan jersey and there was some rumors that it was fake
and that it was being sold and some you know, one of the card
porn one of the I Guess influencer accounts that is run on Twitter and Instagram
and YouTube. Apparently they were kind of getting involved in some of these things.
Like I said, Horatia'll kick it to you just first, because when
you were explaining it seemed like you kind of had some some good info.
You know. It's like you said, it's still developing. So I and
I'm just getting kind of the information from social media, and it's it's really
fascinating. It's like a you know, like a drama developing before your eyes.
But so, you know, apparently the jersey is legit. It was
sold by Gray Final options by by you know, the consigner there or two
two to the buyer. The consigner was legit. But then once once they
the guys wanted to get the jersey photo match, Gray Final offered to do
it for them, and they did it once they actually attempted to photo match
and they couldn't do it, and then a gray final offer to kind of
do it, do some more digging, you know, but it was gonna
cost more money, and so then they declined. So the attempt was made
already to photo match this jersey through gray final options. And so then what
happened is that this buyer of the jersey then you know, created this allegedly
created this fake foundation, uh in and named after a former photographer who had
died of passed away with cancer, you know, about seventeen sixteen years ago,
Tony Ramsa. I don't know if I'm pronouncing the name correctly, the
Tony Ramsa Foundation. The family just found out about this. You know,
he passed away seventeen years ago. The foundation wasn't created until a couple of
months ago or something like that, a couple you know, maybe about a
year ago at the most, but a couple of months ago. So they're
they're shocked to hear that there was a foundation created in their father's late father's
name. The son was anyway, that's what I'm talking about, and so
all this is coming, uh you know out, and somehow though the jersey
gets in the hands of May Gray, which is like the Babe Ruth of
photo matching. Right, So you go from Great final Auctions to Magran and
then these guys are are you know, as legit as they come, and
it seems like they got duped by the winner of this jersey. Now,
the twist here is this is that the buyer of this jersey, the owner
of this jersey now is the guy who has to handle card porn on social
media. And card porn is a you know, rock star so to speak,
in the hobby, right, He's kind of labels himself in the chtok
for the industry. And so you know how high ironic is that that the
watchdog is the fraudster, you know, and that they somehow got one of
the more reputable companies in the space to kind of fall for their their their
plan. Now this all developing. I'm following Darren Ravelle with some stuff and
some other Twitter handles, so stuff is still going on. No one's is
really saying. Maker has released statements saying that you know, we had the
slides, we had the original slides, we had you know, original photographs.
But this points into a number of different directions not just a fraud,
but like the whole process right, the whole way that this stuff is done
right. Yeah, And Chris, I'll kick it over to either your thoughts
on this topic. So my thoughts about this was, you know, over
the last three, four or five years, there have been a number of
these self described experts and gurus and watchdogs that most of us have never heard
before for but have just popped up and have become hobby famous. And it
kind of makes me wonder, is this card porn guy the only one of
these guys that's kind of not on the level here? You know? Yeah,
I mean, I think I'll kick it you back again, Christ in
two seconds. I just I think that stuff like that isn't like accounts that
kind of like I know, there's an account that like tracks like altered RPA's
that's important. There is important accounts that do sort of this kind of watch
I guess watch dog, I think is how they describe self self proclaimed watchdog.
I think there are accounts that do that that are important. I don't
I don't know. I didn't necessarily agree. Mean, there's been times in
the past where they like I don't know, they have they've had some interesting
weird posts about like talking about like sponsors with card the card shows and like
tagging the sponsors and tagging the card the actual shows. I was like,
that's I don't know, it seems a little weird, but you know,
I don't know. With it's still developing, it seems it's a little bit
a little bit scary just because it's you know, like like like Karatio was
saying, Magray is one of the best, if not the best photo matching,
and it seems like if there's fraud going on here that I don't know,
I'm not sure. I don't I guess it'll be interesting to see what
gets happened, what happens with you know, like if there's any law that
is broken or anything like any type of law enforcement that have to get involved
here. And you know, Chris, like I said, I'll kick it
back to you, what kind of what else are you thinking about with this
as the story is developing? How did how did Megray photo match this?
Anyway, That's what I want to know. How did they did they take
this? First of all, do we even know if this is an actual
game used Jersey or not. I think, you know, I think it's
still, like I said, I think they right. I think these are
some of these are some of the things I think that will I guess we'll
come out later on. I mean, I mean, this is sort I
feel like this story is too big for really to just kind of get swept
under the rug. Like there's been kind of big stories that I feel like
sometimes it'll be big on Twitter and Instagram for a day and then next thing
you know, it's on It's onto the next story. I mean, but
I think this one, you know, this fact that it's at Jordan,
Jersey, and the fact that we really have seen memorabilia kind of become a
lot more popular. It obviously always has been popular, but I feel like
with the growth of cards, more people that are also into cards are getting
into more memorabilia as well. So it's really, I don't know, it's
it's a it's a wild situation. Like I said, it's really something that's
still we're still we're still getting a lot of the facts of you know,
I think we're we'll all with this still being a developing story. I kind
of want to get initial thoughts and then move on, just because unfortunately we
don't like Horatio kind of broke it down pretty well. But I think I
said, there's still a lot of developing stuff. So Horatio, I'll just
kick to you one last time and then we'll move We'll move on to the
next topic. Yeah, I think my question goes back to what Chris said,
is you know, how does Magra do that. I know that they
have they're huge in the hockey space, and I know they have a bunch
of contacts in the NBA as well, But you know, a lot of
this stuff, it's it's sort of like grading, right, Like a lot
of times with grading, you know, how does how did my card get
NAT? How did you get nine? It's sort of this you know Wizard
of Alls thing where the guys behind the veil and you don't really know the
process. And that's kind of why where AI kicks in and all these other
companies are trying, you know, TAG is coming in to kind of give
you exactly why your card got the grade it gut photo matching. I feel
like is in that not you know, not with the Wizard of Alls behind
the veil. We're now we're talking like you know, you're just starting the
journey in the yellow brick road. You're on the yellow brick road, right,
Like, that's how far away we are from really understanding their process.
And I know, I'm not want to dismiss you know, May Gray or
the work that they do. I just don't think that there's a lot of
people that really know how stuff is photo matched. And I think a lot
of it is proprietary, right, Like, I think that they they're doing
that so you know, they kind of have that that advantage and they're keeping
that relationship. But I think they're at a point where, you know,
they're at a point where they've got the first mover advantage, and so I'd
really like to kind of see how they go about photo matching and stuff because
it could probably be really interesting and really education informational, and specifically to this
Jersey. I mean, you're telling me that they were able to photo match
it based off of two photos provided by Cardborn and that that was all it
took to photo matches Jersey. Because if so or two two original two original
slides from the photographer. If so, then that's kind of weak, you
know, and it is it is a bit of a black eye for the
industry. But you know, maybe maybe you know, we haven't heard the
last of it, right. We haven't heard really made Grace side completely,
so right exactly, and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this story ends
up being like one of the main stories that ends up being in that Adam
Sandler movie that was rumored about, like the memorabili industry. Apparently they were
the hym and then the producers from Uncut Gems. We're making some sort of
memorabilia movie that was kind of supposed to be similar to Uncut Gems. It
almost seems like this was like a written story about like I just all the
all the different elements, you know, hobby influencer, biggest name in all
of sports, biggest biggest name in authenticating like rookie Jersey or Jersey or whatever.
It just seems like it's it's almost too it's almost too good to be
not know, well, not too good to be true, but you know,
too good to be uh, just all a coincidence, but so a
million million Cubs project, who is I think getting very close at the National
I believe I saw him. I think he was over nine hundred and fifty
thousand, I believe was the number. So he's getting very close to that
uh million, the actual million Cubs cards here, but he said it was
photoshop. Uh Tony Ron's Rand's I don't know if I've pronounced that right.
Was it was a photographer of the foundation was created to trick magraint. So
I mean, yeah, it's it's unfortunate because you know, it's not you
don't you don't want any of these companies to get tricked like this because it
hurts it. All it does is hurt the industry like stuff like this.
Sure it's maybe it's a juicy story on social media, but in reality,
all it kind of does is de legitimize a lot of the work that a
lot of these companies are putting into make the memorabilia and make sports cards a
more an industry that holds more of a standard of uh you know, being
more legitimate. So yeah, it's an unfortunate story. Here's with our next
topic here, we're gonna move on to Uh the new Leaf CEO has been
announced. Uh new Leaf CEO is a old hop or form assume former not
old The former TOPS director of Hobby Sales, Kevin O'Neill. Uh, Brian
Gray also you know on Twitter, I think he you know, tweeted this
morning, he's trying to get to ten k. So if you want to
go follow Brian Gray on Twitter getting to ten k that, uh, you
know, do that with what with what you what you will? Chris,
first, I'll kick it off to you. I don't necessarily know that much
about Kevin O'Neill, but I have some thoughts that I can get into after
you know, you guys kind of share your thoughts. So Chris, we'll
start with you. So apparently about it. A couple of months ago,
O'Neill left Tops to join Beckett to be to take over from Kevin Isaacson's old
position as head of Southern Hobby Distribution. But after only maybe a month on
the job, he leaves and becomes the CEO of a Leaf. That's kind
of strange, and only a month at a new job before moving on to
another job. But again, this guy's been around the hobby for for decades,
ten years at TOPS. Before that, I think he was at press
Pass and I think he got his start with a company called Rooks Roox,
which made high school cards and uh draft pick type cards. I think their
most famous set was for the They actually got the license for the ninety nine
women's soccer team that won the world and they kind of went away after that
and he wound up at Press Pass. So you have an experienced guy at
the helm, So I think I think there were also a couple of other
executives that were promoted as well. So yeah, I think Leaf is in
pretty good hands. So that's good. Yeah. Yeah, And so I
mean, Horatio, what are your thoughts do you do you what do you
know Kevin O'Neil at all? Like have you done any background on him?
Like what are what are kind of some of your thoughts on this, Uh,
this change that I think, I don't know, maybe it was a
surprise, maybe it wasn't Bryan Gray stepping down, but yeah, you know,
let me know what you let me know what you think about this,
the new CEO stepping in. Yeah, I know, I don't know.
I don't know. Kevin O'Neill wasn't very familiar with the name. You know,
that's been reading. Like Chris said, he has a lot of experience.
So that's somebody that, uh, you know, that they felt safe
with. I find it in seen you know, filling in for Brian Gray.
You know, like, uh, those are kind of some some big
shoes to fill regardless of how you feel about the guy. Right, So
with with Brian Gray, I felt it felt like you had the showman.
You know, you kind of had the guy that you know was was you
know, I don't I don't mean to say in a bad way, but
like the center of attention right every time he walked in, the smartest guy
in the room. Kind of deal with Kevin O'NEI, it seems like this
is kind of like the they went in the opposite direction. Like a guy
who's kind of been UH in a supporting role his entire career and you know,
slowly climbed the ladder. Wasn't necessarily like an entrepreneur like Brian was right
where he just struck off on his own decide to start Leaf. And so,
you know, it's interesting. I like, I like the products that
Leaf has been putting out. I like the fact that they're focusing on on
entertainment, you know, different personalities on their cards. I know that there
was some you know, it doesn't come to mind. I know there's some
controversy about some forged UH autographs on some recent cards there. As Brian was
no longer with the company, that's kind of how it got revealed, right,
like an email was sent out Brian's no longer in the company, and
that kind of like start, Oh, yes, that's right, that's right.
I started sending shockwaves through the through the industry, but no looking forward
to see you know, how they continue to evolve in this kind of situation
as Panini grows stronger, bigger and stronger, it appears, you know,
how does how does Leaf kind of become the leader almost in like unlicensed product?
You know, what what role do they take and what's their strategy?
I think that's very fascinating, you know, because there does need to be
competition for Panini, you know, whether it's it's part of the you know,
tops brand or whatever and whatever Panini acquires, there needs to be some
legit competition. So right, yeah, And I mean I think, you
know, as much as I think Leaf does get a little bit of slack
on like social media and people the people saying that they don't like the cards
because they're unlicensed, they have done a pretty good job in my opinion,
of keeping and staying very very relevant without having those licenses. And I think
that's that is impressive. And like I said, I really sorry, like
you said, Horatio too, They've been doing a good job I think with
like the personalities and those types of cards, and that's actually I think one
of the best things that they've done recently. And I mean I think,
I guess kind of depending on how you look at I mean, it's trying
to get people, maybe people who weren't into sports cards that are into maybe
some of these more online personalities, like I know they did, Like this
is gonna sound nerdy, but Tifu, who's like a gaming he's like a
gamer, he's like does stuff on Twitch. He got a card. Uh,
there's like other personality internet personalities that they've done. Uh. And I
mean, I'll kind of switch the topic a little bit here, but you
know, my thoughts on CEOs and uh, like CE level suite executives at
some of these companies, I do I'm kind of torn on if I want
more people from outside the industry to kind of try and step in and become
sort of these types of these types of executives. But I do also feel
like it's tough because it's a very in the industry. And I think Chris
we actually talked about this a couple weeks ago. When the new Beckett CEO
was announced, I asked the question, does someone who is a CEO have
to be do they have to like sports cards? Do they have to be
into sports cards? And I think it was you, Chris, who said
they don't have to be necessarily into sports cards, but they do have to
be a collector. And I think that's true. And you know, as
somebody who has been around and kind of been at different jobs, I do
think it's good for those types of people to kind of make their way up
the ladder. But I do also wonder, like where at what point does
the well kind of dry up? And I don't know. I'll ask you
this question, Chris, maybe, like do you think, like how do
you think in fifteen to twenty years, like who like how are like are
the executives going to be people that are working at these card companies now?
Or are they're going to have to figure out a way to bring people in
to take some of these positions that are like high value positions at some of
these companies. Well, you're gonna have naturally have some level of churn.
The question that concerns me is that is there someone in middle management now at
these companies that's being groomed to be to move up the corporate ladder with the
with whether it's Leaf or any other hobby company, is there a guy,
say in product development that's being groomed to be the next CEO or CEO?
So right, yeah, that's I mean, that's kind of my That's actually
exactly sort of the point I was trying to make too, Like where are
the where are the future CEOs? I guess is maybe the question. And
you know, Horatio, we'll we'll wrap this topic up two and we'll move
on to the next one. But what are kind of some of your final
thoughts on the you know, Leaf, Leaf CEO or just kind of CEOs
I guess in general from or C level people at these at these companies,
just in general. Yeah, And I want to clarify, I don't know
if I said pantin or fanatics, I mean the fanatics as fanatics ticks over
stuff, but from before my comments before, but uh okay, right right
right. I think I think that uh, I think that the best,
the best CEOs come from come from within, you know. I think that
the or or at the very least, like like Chris said, you know,
they're collectors. But the very best ones have have it in their DNA
and there and they show that you know, that that talent. It doesn't
mean that they are just collectors or just hobbyists or whatever, but the very
best leaders have a very thorough knowledge of the hobby of have that mindset of
the collector, and that translates into their management style, that translates into the
decisions that they make. You see it everywhere. I mean even in my
in my industry, right education, you bring people from from the outside of
education, they worked in god knows what any other industry, they get a
pointed a principle and and things just fall apart because they don't really understand you
know, the you know what it means to be I guess an educator.
But that's my own little thing there. But same thing with with any other
industry, right like, you can't just bring outside people you don't understand completely,
like the the ins and outs of it. And you can't just say,
well, it's a business and I've run a business before, so I
know how to run this business. Well, every business is unique, and
like we said, you know, hopefully these companies have you know, this
pipeline of you know middle management guys that are and women that are coming up
and and you know have a future as you know, CEOs for these different
divisions and different companies totally learn this way of hiring someone from outside the industry.
Yeah. Yeah, So I want to give a big shout out to
everybody in the chat as well. Thank you all for leaving your comments.
Let us know where you're watching the show from today. I always liked asking
this question because we always get some wild responses. I think some people said
Korea a couple of times, like people have said all different places all around
the world. Hobby Hobby hot Line I think is global, even even looking
at some of the back end numbers, like people are watching from all over
the world, which is like a ton of that's I mean, that's that's
phenomenal. I'm glad that we can all share sort of our bertise when it
comes to sports cards and teaching and showing people kind of the ways and talking
about these these fun topics. So yeah, just let us know. Also,
if you're watching on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. If you're watching
on anywhere else, just you know, the repost the retweet on Twitter.
I forgot it's called on Facebook. I don't know if the repost or whatever
they call it, but if you want to or X, I guess,
but I'm still gonna call it Twitter because I'm I'm a rebel like that.
Yeah, let us know where you're watching the show from. We're gonna move
on. We've got sort of a little bit of a rapid fire segment here.
So there was three hobby prospects this week that had kind of some big
news stories happen. One of them, the first one we're watching the talk
about, is Jason the Mingez, the Martian. He made his major league
debut and he hit sorry, oh my good, sorry, he hit He
hit a home run in his first I think it was his first career at
bat, which is pretty wild. You know, prospecting, it's always good
to kind of mentioned, you know, prospecting can be dangerous prospect that's your
own risk. Maybe this is this is my disclaimer. If you're gonna be
buying prospect cards for Jason Domingez, it might be a good time to sell
your Jason Mingot's cards if you have it, because like best case scenario,
he turns into Mookie Bets. You know, worst case scenario, he turns
into I don't know every one of the millions of other prospects that didn't pan
out. So Chris, I'll start with you kind of what are your initial
thoughts on Dominguez and his call up and maybe some tips if you got any
cards, if you have any tips for us too. Yeah, what was
the last time the Yankees had a prospect this hyped that they actually kept and
developed and didn't trade away? I mean, I guess we'll Volpi a guess,
but I mean that's all. It's the same, it's the same kind
of categists because it's just this year or two for him. So that's the
last one I can think of. But yeah, sorry, keep going.
I mean the last one I can think of is like going back to like
Derek Jater and Reuben Rivera. M right, Yeah, that's true. I
mean the Yankees traditionally are a team that doesn't hold on to their prospects.
They usually trade them away for veterans, usually at the deadline. And uh,
yeah, it's been a while since we've had a top prospect and wearing
the pin stripes. So yeah, he did. I don't know if he's
earned his pin stripes. I think that's like a joke online. It's like
when when does a player earned their pin stripes or whatever? But yeah,
so, uh, Domingas makes his makes his major league debut. Pretty cool,
Horatio, what are what are kind of some of your thoughts? What
are some of your thoughts on the call up with the with Dominga's just reading
the comment? Can I can I shout out a comment here? Just sure?
Yeah that's a big yeah. Worst case he turns out like wander Yeah,
you know that that would be unfortunate. So so interesting interesting, Like
you know, I play fantasy baseball, so I try to keep upon Aaron
Judge was a big one. I try to. I try to keep up
to date with the prospects, uh for you know future, you know,
futures and holding some guys on. And Jason Demigas is one of those guys
that I learned first about from the hobby. Like I had no idea what
Ja Mingas was. He was. He's like card famous, right, he
was card famous to me, Yes, Eli de la Cruz, Like I
was like, who's Eli de la Cruz? When I saw his cards going
for his you know, his first bowman is going for thousands of dollars,
and then I realized, oh, okay, let me follow this guy.
And then you see, like these guys are like legit guys. So it's
it's kind of it's kind of funny how Jason lmingus to me, uh was
first introduced me as as a hobby guy and kind of a kind of a
bit of a poster boy for like the bubble right and twenty one. How
his cards were going for astronomical numbers, and so it's actually good to see
him. How the debut that he did, you know, first of all,
that the fact that he made it, he got called up to the
majors, and then he has a solid debut bolts well, I think it
bolts well. I don't know that it necessarily justifies the prices that his cards
were going for. But great to see Jason Dominga's make it. H you
know, you always want you always want these guys to make it, you
know, definitely, yeah, I mean it, it only can help the
hobby really well if a prospect can kind of at least be decent and be
like pretty good, like especially when you because I mean, just for another
example, you look at sort of the prospects from that time period. Zion,
for example, we still sort of maybe don't know what he's going to
turn into. But I think Dominguez and Zion and Jaws a little bit different,
I think, But like those prospects from that time period, I definitely
do think were Yeah, they were important. They were important for the hobby,
and they're important for you know, the health of the hobby. I
mean, like I said, and I think, you know, we point
out that common boy wander franc I think it's probably obviously a little bit a
little bit different of a situation, but I do think I saw a I
think one of it was either one of his orange Wanders, one of his
orange Bowman autos. It was either one of his orange or reds. I
forget which which which color was, But I saw a tweet and someone was
talking about last year in August, the cards sold for ninety thousand dollars,
and the same in card with the same certification number just sold for like eight
thousand dollars. So it's like, when something like that happens, it's not
good for the hobby. It's just that's just not And I know that,
like I think that there are some people that may they may relish in the
fact that they were, you know, telling people not to buy prospects,
doing all these things. But like, I don't know, it's just it's
not good for the hobby's health in general when you see something like that,
because you know, whether you know, you don't know who that that ninety
thousand dollars now granted, someone who's buying ninety thousand dollars, ninety thousand dollars
sports card, it's not like they're it's not like they're buying it with their
last ninety thousand dollars they have in their bank account, you know. But
like at the same time, someone like that who maybe potentially would is in
that category, who maybe would have potentially told other people that they were in
sports cards. You know, the fact that they had to sell that card
for eight thousand dollars, I mean, even the fact that someone bought it
for eight thousand dollars is pretty shocking as well. So, yeah, it's
that's an unfortunate tale of a prospect who didn't work out obviously for different reasons.
But like it's always good. Like Dominguez was part of that twenty twenty
the first edition Bowman two, which kind of that was the first time that
they had developed They had came out with that first edition Bowman product, which
I thought was interesting too. It kind of adds almost like another wrinkle into
like which is the best card for a prospect and you can buy a bunch
of different cards that are basically the same, but like not the same.
So that's definitely interesting. Like I said, we're gonna go on to the
next next Hobby Prospect here, I'm trying to make sure I got the tab
up. We got Bronnie James has officially they came out with some of the
images for his Tops Chrome McDonald's All American cards, which are the twenty twenty
three version, which I talked about this not to necessarily plug the podcast,
but on Hobby Hotline. I talked about this earlier on in the week,
and then they kind of came out with this. It was kind of interesting.
Actually, back at the Top's summit, they had announced that Bronnie James
had sun in the NIL contract and that was around the same time when that
twenty twenty two Tops All American Tops Chrome was coming out, and then he
wasn't on the checklist, and I think that probably caught some people by surprise,
So I guess, not thinking back, it makes sense that if they
wouldn't announce that he's going to be in a product and then have him in
the product the next next week or something like that. So it makes sense
now in retrospect. But yeah, we have some official images here. So
Chris, I'll start with you. Does this product get you? Does that?
Does it get your juices going? Are you excited? Like? What
are kind of your thoughts on this? I'm not a basketball collector, so
I mean if I were a basketball card collector, I mean, I think
the parallel here is the McDonald's All American Game. It's kind of what to
basketball what the Affleck Perfect Game All Star Game is the baseball and Bowman has
had the had at one time the contract to make those A cards. Does
anybody really care about those Affleck cards? I mean, they're not really in
uniform in a while, they're in a they're in the McDonald's All American one.
This is Bronnie James's first card. I guess that'll mean something to someone.
What I'm concerned though, is you know, I'm old enough to remember
Hank Gathers, you know, dying on the floor during the middle of the
basketball game because of a heart condition that I don't think he knew he had,
and we know Bronnie James has I don't know if it's the same heart
condition, but something wrong with his heart. Is Bronnie James ever even gonna
be allowed to play in the NBA because of this? I do think that
there was a recent recently, there was a prospect too. I don't remember
it was a heart condition, but he was in a similar boat where he
was going to be a top prospect and I think he played at Oregon.
I'm pretty sure he had he wore like he wore like the the like the
glasses, the like at Yeah. But also the other thing that I'm thinking
about with this is like, are there going to be other cards that come
out before? Because they didn't really necessarily Like, are there going to be
other cards that come out for him hypothetically because like because like the card that
you have on on the screen looks like a regular tops paper card. I
hate using that term. People. Yeah, they're gonna come out with a
chrome as well, I'm sure, right, And I'm pretty sure they're probably
gonna come out with a Bowman product branded product that right may also have a
chrome version as well, so there could be four different Brianie James autographed cards
out there, so and then and then there might be tops now if he
potentially if they start doing tops now for college basketball and college football, there's
that potential as well. Horatia, I'll kick it over to you. What
are what are your thoughts on this card? Yeah, it's sort of like,
yeah, I don't think it'll be kind of his true rookie you know,
like like Chris said, I mean, there have been players that have
come back from like heart conditions, when players that have collapsed. I mean,
that's kind of the size of the poem from the card. But I'm
I'm I'm I'm wondering, you know, how long will it take him to
get get back on the court, right? I think I can think of
Keynte Johnson from the University of Florida. He collapsed on the floor and it
took him. It took him a while. But he's actually he signed a
contract with the with the Thunder, the Oklahoma City Thunder, so he's out
there back playing. To me, you know, like I said, like
Chris said, I'm not much of a basketball collector. Uh what what I
do understand is LEBRONI is, he's not just sports famous though, like he's
he's famous, you know because of the documentary he had a Netflix with the
top of the class. Kids know him, kids know him quite a bit.
Uh he's he's you know, Lebron's uh soun as well, which which
is something I mean, not all kids of celebrities are famous. And Ronnie
Ronnie has already kind of lived up to that, right, and he's almost
also embraced it through social media and you know, through through other avenues.
So there's a value to the card. I just don't think that, you
know, if he does have a significant career, I don't see it being
his you know, his signature card or being one of his top flight cards.
Right. Yeah. And to just with with how many cards there are
nowadays that it can be tough to kind of distinguish like what should be the
most important card. And it's always I always say, let the market determine
because in actuality it sort of is the market is the market, like he
like, you can kind of push back on the market if you want to,
but the market's going to determine what the best or most expensive card is.
I guess. So, you know, we'll see, we'll see what
happens with this type of card. And you know, I think like KD,
for example, had a McDonald's All American card. I'm pretty sure there.
I mean, there have been other players who have had these types of
cards. Now, granted, it's maybe going like I said, this is
the prospect rapid I hurt whatever. I don't know the name of the segment,
but the yeah, it's it's uh, sorry I lost my turn thought
it's it's it's a you know, these types of prospects don't well I guess
maybe brine game is a little bit different, but you know, prospects don't
always pan out. I mean, another one that comes to mind that was
like a huge high school star was Michael Porter Jr. And it really took
him like five or six years in the league to get over some of his
injury issues. Like Michael Porter Junior was the number one recruit and then he
goes on to play at Missouri, but then he gets hurt, and then
he's hurt throughout the first couple of years and then he kind of starts developing.
So yeah, I mean there's a billion examples. You can really think
of. I'm actually just gonna pop up a couple of these comments too.
Here we get somebody said, there at the Burbank, they're on their way.
Uh, they're on the way to Burbank. How much hobby boxes go
for for I'm guessing it's maybe they're talking about this product. I don't know.
I'm not sure off top of my head what the what the hobby boxes
would go for. And then somebody did ask the question, will Brownie be
able to play at USC again? I mean, I think he's training,
Like I don't. I'm not sure if you guys have seen any of the
news, but I'm pretty sure that he's training, uh like not maybe not
with the team, but like back with whoever his trainers are. Uh.
And we got uh, it's nice to see the McDonald's logo on a TOPS
card. It's a clean look. I like the incorporation of the McDonald's colors
against the white background. It could be a lot worse. Yeah, I
mean the design of the card it is. It is pretty cool. Uh.
I definitely agree. And then to wrap up this segment here we have
more prospect news. So Tops this week announced that there is going to be
there's going to be an events around the uh that card that they were kind
of promoting as when they signed Victor Webbanana to the to the contract, I
thought it was weird that they didn't include the it didn't include the card in
the product. I guess it makes sense that they didn't, but it doesn't.
I'll i'll maybe I'll get your guys' thoughts on this, but like to
me, it does seem a little bit weird that they would promote the card
that he signed it, but then not included in the product and almost like
I'm not like and like the Bowman You has been out for months now,
so it's like at what you know? Obviously, I don't know if this
is was the plan all along or if something happened like they like maybe they
forgot to put the card in the product or something. I don't know.
Horace, I'll start with you, like kind of have you dove into this?
Like what are your thoughts on uh, the event in the card in
general? It's funny because I was at the Wildwood Card Show last week.
We got to run in and I saw I saw some of those boxes,
the Bowman You boxes uh for sin I was running whatever happened to that one,
but yon the card to me, You know, I think you're being
generous out of I think it's borderline fraudulent, you know, to promote the
card and to you know, have say, hey, this is this is
part of the Bowman you you know series, and then and then not included
in any of the boxes. I mean, it's clear that they their their
whole intention was to kind of hold it and kind of used as another promo.
But you know, there's nothing wrong with that as long as you state
this card will not be in any of the releases, right in any of
the boxes. So yeah, I don't. I don't. I think that
people legitimately bought the product, you know, thinking however far festicated the odds
war that they had a chance of getting that one card that's that first card
I ever signed. I think I think people legitimately bought the boxes and the
product for that to see if they could somehow get extremely lucky and purchase that.
So to not include it in the product, it doesn't sit right,
you know. I agree? Yeah, yeah, Chris, how about you?
What do you think about this? When I first heard about this,
If you're gonna sign your first autograph, wouldn't you sign the one of one
super fractor instead of the green card numbered at ninety nine? Yeah, I
mean, I think just me, But yeah, I mean, I guess,
I don't know. I mean, I'm in the same I'm in the
same boat of for Ratio in this one. All right, go ahead,
Chris, Yeah. So, so apparently all of the Wembiana autographs are redemptions
in this product. Yeah, that's correct. And if you pull a redemption
for the green card, you can be entered. You're you're automatically entered into
this contest where you could have your green card redemption fulfilled with this particular card.
That that's the way I understand this promotion, right, And I think
they're also having an event to where there and apparently Wembaniona is going to be
at the event. It's gonna be They're holding an event in San Antonio.
Yeah, but I'm, like I said, I'm in the same boat of
for Ratio here. I just don't just doesn't sit right with me. That,
you know, they promoted this card so heavily and this boatman new product,
and then and then next thing you know, it's it's not even in
the product, which actually now what I'm thinking about it, And I guess
this may be a question because I've never pulled a redemption, so like,
if someone pulls redemption, does it say what number of the card it is?
So like or or is there like how does how does how would a
redemption on this card work? That you guys, either of you guys know,
Like like if someone pulls a green does it say on there it's two
of ninety nine or ten of ninety nine or whatever? Or like do you
send your redemption in and then they just pick which card you get? Like
you either you guys know if that's if that's how that works exactly? Tops
doesn't serial number redemption card? So if you get a redemption card, you
send it in or you redeem it online and you basically get the serial number
they that they give you. Yeah, that's also sort of maybe a process
that I don't necessarily like if I'm gonna be completely honest, like they just
get to this. I don't know, I mean, maybe maybe I'm over
exaggerating. Does it really matter what the serial number is? I mean,
if you if you get like one, yeah, or the Jersey number,
right, I mean, yeah, if you get number ninety two because that's
the team that he played for, right exactly. Yeah, I don't know,
right, So you know, Horatio, what are your kind of final
thoughts on this topic? Do you have have anything else to say? And
then we'll kind of move on to uh got two other topics we're gonna or
one other topic we're gonna cover kind of running down at the end of the
show here. No, not much, just you know that this is he
signed zero one out of ninety nine, and so, uh, you know,
somebody's somebody's gonna get that. I just you know that that's the iconic
card. That's his iconic card. That's gonna be one of the chases for
for a while, especially if he ends up becoming you know, the next
whatever, next ten Duncan or whatever. Right, that's gonna be uh V
card to chase. So, like I said, I don't know, I
always someone and I remember this when they came out. I'm gonna say,
who knows if it's gonna be even available, uh for for purchaseing. I
just feel like holding the card for a promotion kind of doesn't doesn't. They
knew what kind of what they were tough to new with. They were doing
even if it was sort of like a redemption, you know, where it
would have been so much cooler. I think I feel like, I don't
know if someone just got out in the wild and received it, you know,
made it no kind of one of those things where you you read about
or you see on on social media where it's like they're super excited about pulling
this iconic card, so to speak. Yeah, And I mean, I
guess I think, you know, Chris, I think you brought up the
point like why wouldn't he sign the one of one? I mean, I
guess, like I wonder if it's kind of like a Chicken of the egg
type situation here, I think with this card, like did he sign the
card like this and then they decided that they were going to do this promotion
or did they know they were going to do the promotion and then they had
him sign this card this specific way. I guess it's like I said,
it's we don't necessarily know which way which way it was like, and we
don't even we I guess we don't know and we probably will never know if
like if this was like was this the plan all along? It just seems
if the timing to me is what gives me? Like the like the ick
I suppose is one as an internet word that people use, Like it's like
the time of it, Like it's not like why wouldn't they just announced it
when the product first came out, Like it just doesn't make much sense to
me. Maybe Victor one Beanana just went into business for himself, picked the
first card out of the pile that he was set by TOPS and it just
happened to be this green card and put the extra inscription on it, and
Tops maybe knowing that these autographs would not be available in time for pack out
and have to go with the redemption route, decided to make chicken salad out
of it, you know, right, yeah, yeah, make a contest
out of this, right yeah. I mean I guess the other thing is
like with there being so many redemptions, like we all know how much of
this product there is, like how many of the how many redemptions have even
really been pulled? Like that's kind of the other comment. That's the other
thing. And I'm wondering, like, like I get maybe obviously not all
ninety nine had been pulled, Like is it is it five? Is it
ten? Is it thirty? Like I just wonder what this event it's even
gonna really look like. And I think, you know, like you said,
they just they just send out these cards. So it's like, I
guess the people who pulled the redemption or who because now this is I mean,
this is or maybe they saw some slowing down of sales so they're like,
Okay, now we're going to announce it, so now that people know
that because people were excited for the product because it had Wemennon in it either
way, and they were going to be excited for it, so you know,
maybe announcing it wouldn't have really it gave them another opportunity to market the
product with this card in it. So I think that's probably what it was.
But like I said, I don't know. I just didn't When I
saw this, I kind of was like it was the same thing with the
Bronnie James. It was actually two moments that have kind of happened recently where
Top sort of promoted something but then it wasn't the full story. Like and
I guess maybe it's not up to Tops to necessarily come out and announced that
Bronnie James isn't in a product after they announced it, But like, if
you have a product with Bronny potentially in it, and you announced that he
signed an NIL contract in the same time period coming out it, maybe you
know, you'll maybe want to tell people so that way they don't go out
and buy this product thinking they're gonna pull up Brownie James card. Maybe similar
with this, like if this card can't well, and I guess you wouldn't
even really necessarily have pulled the card because they're all redemptions unfortunately. But yeah,
like I said, it's it's it'll be interesting. I mean, you
know, I think we have the NBA starts probably in October or does anybody
know when the start of the season is. We're coming up on the training
cancels usually on the October. Yeah, sorry, but that Yeah, so
well, I guess we'll see. Well, you know, I think it'll
be cool. We'll see another it's another event that tops in finashks for putting
on. I mean, I think they usually put on pretty cool events.
So we're gonna actually move on to the last topic here. It is going
to be uh Panini making a decision back in twenty twenty that has now cost
them twenty five million dollars. There was apparently a copyright from Triple A wild
Card back in ninety two. That Pannini was just like, uh, we're
gonna which I can't. I actually I look at the cards. I'm like,
how, like how do you do this? Like why would you do
this? Like like it's it's it's unfortunate, and it's it's it's an unfortunate
story because like what happened was, uh, they basically just copied the design
and now they have to pay wild Card twenty five million dollars and wild Card
had a pretty big booth at the National I would say that probably is going
to be bigger next year because they got this extra twenty five million dollars from
Panini. This is the last thing that Panini needs right now is which obviously
this is from twenty twenty, so it's not necessarily something they can control.
Uh, it's unfortunate. Horatia. I'll start with you, what are kind
of your initial thoughts on h on this copyright infringement that we've seen. I
mean, before we got on, I was like, you know, I
was familiar with wild Card. I got a couple of you know, old
football cards. I got an EMT Smithemant Smith wild Card, but asked Chris,
I was like, does wild Card still make any any cards? And
so uh and you know he told me they still they still do, and
so for them to get Panini agreed to pay them twenty five million dollars.
I'm like, I mean, that's a pretty significant winfall for wild Card.
Now, I guess now they're in the game right now they can maybe do
something with with, you know, more products. So as far as the
designs go, Like, look, man, I don't know. I mean,
I mean, especially the backs of the cards right that they're exactly the
same pretty much. You know, you could argue, I guess for the
front a little bit. Besides that top right logo. You know, the
Panini version is brighter, you know, it's got a nicer, nicer picture.
They also have a rough free in the background. But Panini knew what
they were doing, uh, because they're paying twenty five million dollars. So
yeah, yeah, good, good for wild Card. Yeah, definitely,
Chris, how would you what do you think? You know? Over the
last ten, fifteen, twenty years, card companies have gotten into this habit
of recycling a lot of their old designs. You know, just about every
Tops product of the last four or five years it's had some kind of reprint
ins or you know, this year in Tops Baseball there was the eighty eight
Tops reprints. Last year it was the eighty seven reprints. The year before
that it was eighty six. Heritage is a brand that's based on reprinting a
fifty year old card set. Archives is much the same way. This is
the first time I think I've ever seen a card company reprinting someone else's design.
Yeah, I know. The only thing that I can think of that
vaguely is like this is that I remember Upper Deck made a card set that
kind of vaguely looked like seventy one Tops. It was a little bit different,
you know, they didn't they had the team name at the bottom instead
of the top, but it was a dead ringer for seventy one Tops.
I think it was two thousand two Vintage Baseball. I guess that was one
way they could have gotten around copyright was making that change. But to see
a company just blatantly rip off someone else, I've I've never seen this before,
and I don't think we'll be seeing well unless Fanatics buys up everyone else.
I don't think you'll see anything like this again. I mean, i'd
like to know what Panini was thinking a couple of years ago when they did
this. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. My initial My initial
thoughts are like there had to have been some sort of agreement that they were
trying to do and that didn't go through, and that it was too late
too. Like that's the only thing I can really think of because it's literally
the design is exactly the same, Like it has the stats Smasher's logo on
the card, and I think that's that's also one of the big copyright issues.
They're using the logo, they're literally using the logo from the exact card,
so like you're using the logo, they're using the little squiggles in the
design. Like even even the squiggles have the same amount, they're the same
amount. It's like it just doesn't it doesn't make the font is exactly the
same. Like as as someone who's a designer, like you know, there
have been you know, there have been times where I've taken inspiration like doing
like T shirts and stuff like that, But it's like when the only thing
that I can really think of with this is that they were trying to they
were trying to do some sort of deal or some sort of thing where they
could use the IP, or they just thought that because I don't they I
don't know, for some reason, maybe they thought the IP of it had
expired because like that happens with Disney, where it went like this happened with
Winnie the Pooh actually recently. This is not a sports card, but it's
a little bit often a little tangent here Winnie the Pooh, their IP legal
IP expired, so like they like someone made like a horror movie with Winnie
the Pooh in it, and like this is something that maybe I don't know,
maybe Pannini was like, oh the IP maybe be it expired or something
along those lines, or there was some sort of deal. Because to me
as a designer, to copy it like word for word basically, especially on
the back of these cards, like to make it look exactly the same,
just doesn't make any sense. Like and also it's tough because it's like if
you're a designer, and you're if you're a designer opinion. I don't know
how many designers they have, but you know they're coming out with new sets
and new inserts, like every single day. So it's like you gotta you're
turning and burn it just through all these designs, trying to get them done
as quickly as you can. So maybe it just slipped through the cracks too,
Like maybe it was a designer who did it because he got an initiative
from somebody to do it, and you know, the next thing, you
know, it's just the card is out there and actually there's nothing they can
really do about it. Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's
a little it's unfortunate. Uh, you know, Chris, I'll keep,
I'll keep. I'll ask you again, like do you think, like how
do you think something like this happens? In your opinion? I mean,
this is it is. Like I said, it doesn't make sense to me.
So I'm not saying that thought that this trademark might have been abandoned,
which which is a thing, right, But you know, the wild Card,
the original card came out in nineteen ninety two and wild Card has been
out of went out of business shortly. They're the original wild Card, so
apparently someone must have kept that trademark alive. Uh. I don't know.
I mean, I don't see how a company that wasn't around for over a
quarter of a century could legally keep this trademark alive, but apparently somebody did,
right, Yeah, and uh, just it's it's it's similar to the
Jordan's story where it's like it just doesn't make sense how all of these things
had to kind of line up for something like this to happen. You know,
Horaciel, I'll kind of ask you the same question, like how,
like how do you think that this how do you think this happened? Like
it's just it's it doesn't really make much. It's it's exactly the same.
Like I said, it's it bowls my mind that that it's something like this
happened. Yeah, I mean I wish I had a greater understanding of you
know, like a law background, like Chris, like, what is the
limitations for a trademark? You know, like maybe they felt like since that
came out in ninety two and they were defunct for you know, more than
ten I'm reading somewhere that says the trademark Federal trademarks last ten years, but
that release was in twenty twenty, so I guess you have to read through
all that. But yeah, I mean somebody must have thought that it was
okay, you know that this is an old card. They're out of business.
Uh. Maybe they didn't do their due it. Maybe they hired a
bad lawyer who said, yeah, the trademark hasn't been renewed, because you
could the original the original hold of the trademark renew it for ten because you
know, for ten years, they have the opportunity to do that. So
maybe they thought that they didn't do their their full due diligence and thought that
the trademark was was was dead and so that they could use it. That's
the only thing I could think of. The Other thing I was thinking is
like, I'm curious about why twenty five million dollars was awarded. I mean,
that's that's a significant amount, you know, like how much how much
did that product sell? And uh, I mean I find it hard to
believe that that Putini football product, you know alone, you know, it
was twenty five million dollars. I mean why why why ripping off that insert?
You know, would would would would then it be such a significant amount
to award to them. It's an interesting kind of settlement, I guess.
And I'm wondering, well, that is a settlement like I wonder what they
were actually initially suing for it, right, right, Yeah, yeah,
I mean I do. I do hope that one day there'll be some sort
of like documentary that's put together with like all the hobby lawsuits, like some
sort of like true true crime documentary, like some sort of I don't know.
I think that we've seen so many different lawsuits and then you know,
it almost feels like an episode of Secession, like where it's like everybody's backstabbing,
everyone's going behind people's backs, everybody's suing everybody. It's like all it's
like it's all going on all at once, and it's it's really it's it's
I don't know when it stops or if it ever stops, because it's like,
you know, fans obviously is coming in and they're trying to I don't
actually I just know of succession. I don't necessarily I don't know any of
the characters, but it just seems like you know, they're you know who
posted actually funny picture was It was John John Newman from Sports Card Nation.
He posted another co host here on the show. Uh, he posted I
think it was like a godfather. It was like a meme of The Godfather
with uh he was holding like the cat that had like a Fanatics logo,
and then it was Michael Rubin's face that was That was that was. I
thought that was a pretty funny one that I think that sums up kind of
what's going on here too. If I'm gonna be honest, like with uh
them making all these moves and all these things going on, I, like
I said, I think I'm hoping that there's some way to document all these
crazy things that are happening within this industry because it feels like maybe it's because
we're in it, but it feels like every day there's some sort of like
industry changing news that happens. And like I said, I'm wondering if it's
if it's like that in in under other industries, I'm not I'm not really
sure. But yeah, So we're coming up. We're coming up at the
top the hour, which is going to be the end of the show.
I will you know, we'll go around the horn one more time. Any
thought, final thoughts here, any words of wisdom that we have maybe end
of the end of the show, Chris will start with you what do you
what do you got for the fans. Let them know if you got to
plug anything, let them know that. And then, uh, just any
words of wisdom as we as we wrap up the show. First of all,
card companies, please stop ripping off other companies designs, ripping off your
own designs. Come up with something new every once in a while. Other
than that, I really don't have much to plug plug baseball, card PDIA,
follow me on Twitter whatever they're calling it now, that's still um and
uh, that's all I got. Keep on rocking the Free world to make
sure. Yeah good, make sure you make sure you get that one into
the rock in the Free World race you how about you? Which you which
you got on the horizon? Anything you want to plug? And then you
know, some final words of wisdom maybe on the show. Yeah no,
no, don't don't get anything. I got some things, uh, some
articles I'm working on, uh, you know, coming out next month for
Sports Collectors Daily to kind of took a light load on during the summer.
I guess the the words of wisdom would be, you know, if you
are an industry watchdog or a hobby watchdog, you know kind of truly understand
what that means. You know, if you're gonna take on that role.
And if you're gonna listen to an industry watchdog or a hobby watchdog, you
know, always always takes you know, always look at it from two different
lenses. You know, it's it's just kind of unfortunate. I think one
of the worst things is when people are are taking advantage of people that they
kind of trust or or kind of believe in. That's the biggest kind of
uh, you know, pain and kind of uh where these candles are get
even worse, you know, right one, Yeah, totally agree, And
I mean I think I always try and do the do this at the end
the show. It's like we always are going to have new people coming into
the hobby that are always going to have questions. So just know that,
like you know, if you are being asked a question on Twitter, someone's
probably a little bit scared to ask you that question, so like you gotta
you know, respond with respect. I always try and make sure I always
do that type of stuff and make sure that you know, new people coming
in they want to learn the same way that you were new coming in at
one point two. So you know, the only things I gotta plug.
We've got Hobby Hotline. Actually, our Tuesday or only Tuesday episode of the
month is coming up this upcoming Tuesday, the fifth. We've got Danny Black,
Oscar Torres, and Victor Victor Ramone. They're going to be the hosts
on that show. That'll be on the Hobby hot Line YouTube YouTube page.
And then next Saturday we'll be back here on the bench Clear Media to do
the show as well. Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you if you're
watching on YouTube, appreciate it. And we will see you guys all in
the next one.