What Up? What Up? What Up? For everybody? Welcome to another
episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask me Paul
Abernathy anything you want about the National Electrical Code or all things electrically related.
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Today's question on Let's Ask Paul podcast. I guess this individual watched my
episode of Unit eleven in the Fast Tracks program. It was Fast Tracks Live.
It was just previously Wednesday, and they asked me to explain a little
bit because I did put a notice on there explaining there was a subtle difference
between twenty twenty and twenty twenty three when it comes to the neutral and when
we're doing a service or feeder calculation, and they asked me to elaborate on
that in a podcast, so I figured I would elaborate a little bit on
that for those that may be confused while I did the video episode. And
my understanding is that the intent of what the code is for calculating the neutral
versus the way I explained it was based on the twenty twenty three, even
though all the information originally was from the twenty twenty It's kind of how I've
always taught it when it comes to calculating the neutral. But I am very
conscious of a fact that you're probably not going to have it come up on
an exam, But I wanted to explain the differences between a subtle change and
how important a subtle change of one word really can make a difference, especially
if you're not just preparing for code, but getting into a code debate or
or maybe even having to argue with an inspector on a site. It's one
word can really change the difference of the meaning of something. So, for
example, what we're talking about is in the National Electrical Code, when you're
doing a feeder or service load calculation and now you have to calculate the neutral
loads, you're going to use the benefits of two twenty dot sixty one A
and B and even C, which is to prohibited reductions and when you can't
reduce the size of the neutral But the big issue that we're going to be
talking about is a subtle change that took place between the twenty twenty and the
twenty twenty three edition of the National Electrical Code. Now the change is it
went from or to and right, and that is huge in the world of
code. Right because or means you do this or that right and means you
can apply or do this and you do that and so that's a subtle change.
So let me paint you this mental picture. So you're doing a neutral
calculation. You're following all the steps to calculate the neutral, which we cover
in our videos. If you haven't watched our videos, make sure you check
our videos out on fasttrackstube dot com. That's our exclusive platform. You can
do monthly subscription or annual subscription, whatever you want, get what you need
and move on. If that's what you want, We've got both options.
So basically, what we're talking about is when you're applying the seventy percent additional
permitted reduction. So let's say doing the neutral. So if you know what
your range is, you know what your dryer is and use size for the
ungrounded conductors the hots, and you know what your VA is for range.
Okay, we'll just use an example. Say it's just a normal range.
Let's say it's you're using eight kW, right, So anything that's not over
twelve KWF it's a single range in your range, you're going to be using
eight kW. So if you take that eight thousand, that's what you would
use in your service or feeder load calculation for your ungrounded hot conductors. But
when it comes to the neutral you're allowed to have a permitted reduction under two
twenty sixty one B, right, and so if you look at B one,
we're able to reduce that by B tells me the items in B one,
which example would be a range electric range. That's what we're talking about.
That I can reduce that value by seventy percent, okay, or I
can have a seventy percent demand factor applied to it. The easiest way to
say that, so I'm gonna knock off thirty percent basically, so that eight
thousand times point seven zero is five thousand and six hundred. Okay, you
still say that eight thousand, okay, eight thousand. Damn it, eight
thousand minus thirty percent is still five thousand, six hundred, okay. So
however you want to swing it. It allows me to have it reduction the
seventy percent demand applied, okay. So that's five thousand, six hundred.
Well that's a neutral contribution. Okay. That's when you're using two twenty dot
sixty one B and B one. So the question became is since you're doing
that, and if you're doing the standard method, this is gonna you're able
to apply this, right, So if I'm applying these demands, okay,
and I'm going to apply this seventy percent demand, the next question is what
happens if my total neutral unbalanced maximum unbalanced calculated load that I calculate for the
neutral What happens if it's over two hundred? Can I now also take an
additional reduction into twenty dot sixty one B two And that's and it says here
that that portion of the unbalanced load in excess of two hundred where the feeder
or service is applied by a h three wire DC or single phase AC system,
then blah blah blah, we'll just keep it at AC. So it
seems to imply that I can apply if it was two hundred and seventy nine
amps of neutral load, then the first two hundred you have to take,
and then the seventy nine you get to multiply by seventy percent. I mean,
that's basically what two twenty dots sixty one B is telling us, right,
But the difference is in the twenty twenty edition of the Nationalctic Coal Code.
If you look at the charging statement of two twenty dot sixty one B,
it says a service or feeder supplying the following loads shall be permitted to
have an additional demand factor of seventy percent applied to the amount in two twenty
dot sixty one B one or portion of the amount in two twenty dot sixty
one B two determined by the following basic calculations. So the sheer statement here
and again we can understand that that we know that this discussions. That was
never the intent to make you have to pick one or the other. And
in the twenty twenty three that's cleared up. That ore is now an and
okay, so I could apply both to the neutral right in the twenty twenty
three, but not in the twenty twenty because of that ore. Now,
most people that teach it, we will try to teach it in a way
we're going to like, well, well, we know that that's what they
really meant, but the ore is there and you can't ignore it. So,
you know, for an exam, you could run into a question where
they focus in on a question like this and they're really really trying to say,
well, you applied the seventy percent to the range and the dryer whatnot,
So now you can't use two twenty sixty one B two right, So,
and if that's the case, then that's correct. You could only use
the one. And since you're using the seventy percent for the range for the
neutral and seventy percent of the the VA for the dryer in the first step
for the neutral, then you can't use the T twenty that sixty one B
two. Now, the thing about that is usually this is only going to
come into play if you have over two hundred amps of neutral load anyway,
So in most residential applications that's not going to be an issue, but in
a multi family building it most certainly could be an issue. So that's why
we kind of cover it in our unit eleven in our fast Tracts program is
because again that unit deals with multifamily and so now when I try to teach
it, I try to get people understanding that reality it should be this one
and you could use both. But that again, if you want to be
a purist in it, that ore is very important. So it should probably
tell you that it's different for the exam prep, which in a real world,
as you can see in the twenty twenty three, we're allowed to use
both. And that's was my belief, is what the intent was but again
the powerfulness of words the ore makes it so that you can't. It's either
this or that, y all right anyway, So that's why I had to
put the little disclaimer on it to you know, to make it clear to
everybody that, all right there, if you're taking an exam and it just
happened to come into play right for the twenty twenty edition and in the twenty
seventeen edition, that it's this or that. So if you're already gonna apply
to seventy percent to the range and the dryer and all that, then then
you can't. And if the maximum unbalanced load is over two hundred, you
can't apply to twenty dot sixty one B two because you've already applied to twenty
dot sixty one B one. That's what I was saying. And again that's
you know, that's twenty twenty twenty seventeen. In the twenty twenty three it's
worded differently, and so you know it's important for me. I'll read you
how it's you know, how it's done in that edition, so that you
can see the difference of how it's verbaged. Uh. It says in the
twenty twenty three edition into twenty that sixty one B. It says a service
or feeder supplying the following loads shall be permitted to have an additional demand factor
of seventy percent applied to the amount in two twenty that sixty one B one,
and a portion of the amount into twenty that sixty one B two.
So you get to still apply your seventy percent for your neutral calculation to your
ranges and dryers and whatnot as normal and the standard method. But if your
maximum unbalanced load is over two hundred, you can also to that portion that
is over two hundred, you can apply the seventy percent to that as well.
So that's why it's important to have that and in there. And you
know, sometimes people forget these subtle changes and it can make a difference.
Obviously, it's going to make a difference in the neutral calculation. If you
happen to have a neutral value that is over two hundred AMP and you're doing
a multi family building, it's going to affect the size of the neutral conductor,
remembering it has to handle the maximum um violence load. It means you
have to do a calculation, you have to know what you're doing. But
if you do get a neutral amount that's over two hundred. Then that amount
that's over two hundred. Even though you've already applied the seventy percent, let's
say, to the ranges and dryers for the neutral, you can very much
still apply the seventy percent to that value that's over two hundred in B two
of to twenty sixty one. Okay, So hopefully that you know, that
kind of clears that up a little bit for folks, and probably not something
that you're going to see on an exam. But and I teach it the
way it is in the twenty twenty three, and I have for a long
time because I believe that's what the intent was, and it made sense that
it was clarified in the twenty twenty three. And I get it. It's
people are going to say, and I've got my haters out there that it'll
say, well, that's not what it says in the twenty twenty I get
it. But you know, you teach whoever you want, and I'll teach
you who I ever want. You worry about you, I worry about me.
You don't have to like me. I don't care whether you follow me.
Listen, whatever you can bad mouth me. I don't care. I
teach what I think is best for the students and moving forward once you get
that license, because the chances are that is never going to be on an
exam. But once you move out into the real world and you start experiencing
your states change to the twenty twenty three and things like that. And I
knew this was coming all the way back in the development cycle, back when
the twenty twenty was out and we started working on the twenty twenty three.
I kind of knew what was coming, so I started shifting my how I
taught it to be ready for the twenty twenty three and how it really was
intended to be and it is. This is intended that you could apply both
of those. Okay, So that's kind of why I didn't the way I
do. But again, I don't work to the of the drum of anybody
else. I do my own thing, and you can like it or hate
it or whatever. I don't really care. You won't change me, so
it doesn't matter. You can say what do you want to you're blue in
the face. It doesn't bother me. But anyway, that was that one,
and I hopefully that answered the question to the gentleman that was asking or
sent the email just to subtle change in that. Now we have gone back
and readjusted our fast tracks program to reflect that because I don't want to.
I didn't want to impose my own will on everybody with this, especially since
it's exam prep and again it's not going to make a big difference in anything,
But it is important that I realized that twenty twenty to twenty twenty three,
while I was trying to push people onto that that reality is, I
figured, you know, I better go on and explain it the way it's
written in twenty twenty and let that or and be a focal point, and
then in the twenty twenty three I will, you know, focus. That's
just another testament, folks, that subtleness of a single word can make all
the difference in a calculation. It can be the difference from a one ot
to a two ought. It could be a difference from a three ought to
a four ought. In conductor sizing. All those type of things can be
radically changed by something as simple as an and or an ore. Okay,
all right, folks, hopefully got something out of that, hopefully answered the
question the gentleman that ask about it, we have adjusted for that. And
again I apologize for imposing my own will, but I'm trying to train you
for what the intent was. But I do understand for exam prep it's important
for twenty twenty and twenty seventeen folks that when you're dealing with the neutral and
you're applying it, that the ads and the ores do make a huge,
huge difference. Now, I will also remind you that if you're not going
to be utilizing the seventy percent, for example, in the standard method for
the ranges and dryers, and you're not utilizing that, and it may be
a more of a benefit to ignore it and take the neutral for those as
one hundred percent and then applying to twenty dot sixty one B two for the
overall and balanced neutral, it may end up working out better for you.
So when it says or in the twenty twenty to twenty seventeen you can do
this one. And remember, the seventy percent reduction is permitted, it's not
a requirement. You're permitted to reduce the range and the dryer, uh,
the seventy percent reduction, right, but it's not it's not mandatory. So
in the end of the day. You know you, it's up to you
how you want to apply it. If you're in the field on exam,
most all cases they're going to apply the seventy percent to the range and dryer
when you're doing the neutral that type of scenario, right, But if they
didn't, then you most certainly can apply to twenty dot sixty one B two
to your overall mac some unbalanced load and it would it would be fine.
Okay, all right, hopefully got something out of that, folks. Until
next time, Stay safe, God bless, and again, as always,
if you got questions you want to submit them, just go to Paul Abernathy
dot com submit them to the portal. I'll do my best to answer your
questions. The is best I can. Till next time, Stay safe,
God bless,