WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:10.960 Innovation. Economy is teeming with innovation as new business models reinvent every industry. 2 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:16.320 Inside Analysis is your source of information and insight about how to make the most 3 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:26.199 of this excitement. Inside analysis dot Com, Eric Caabina, So welcome to 4 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:30.480 the future is right, future is current these days, OLT, and today's 5 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:35.520 topic is going to talk about how you can really leverage the power about APIs. 6 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:40.960 Application. Wow, we're going to talk about APIs. Application program Interfaces. 7 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:44.920 APIs are the gateways to innovation, of the gateways to data, we're 8 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:49.320 going to find out their gateways to functionality too. It's not just data that's 9 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:54.359 flying across those little transoms, it's also instructions of how to do things. 10 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.399 So on both sides, whether it's on the API side or the side access 11 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:00.759 and the API, well, what you want to do is really understand how 12 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:04.760 these APIs work. And they're all a little bit different. I've been told 13 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:08.400 that the Digital Ocean is the best API. That's what my developer friends tell 14 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:12.879 me. But APIs they are super important. They're like faucets or spigots, 15 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.400 right, So if you think about a faucet, you turn on the faucet 16 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.200 to get water, you turn off the faucet to stop the flow of the 17 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.000 water. APIs are kind of like that for data and for instruction. Basically, 18 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.719 you turn them on, you get something from me, you turn it 19 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:29.560 off. Well, you can imagine that they are very important. It's a 20 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:34.319 very important part of your architecture these days. As we move into this hybrid 21 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:37.439 cloud world, which I think is going to be the reality for quite some 22 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:41.359 time, they become very important. So architecturally, you want to think about 23 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:46.400 stuff before the show. Here we are chit chatting about design, and I'm 24 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.879 so proud of my daughter for being a big Pirates fan. We're here in 25 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:53.000 Pittsburgh. She loves going to the games. That it's a beautiful venue because 26 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.319 the Urban Plant has really thought about stuff. All the seats in some way 27 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:01.000 or other face the outfield, which is the skyline. So you let's see 28 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.840 this beautiful skyline for night games and even day games of course, but nights 29 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:07.560 at night the lights come on. It's just really really good stuff. So 30 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.280 they thought about that. The ingress, the egress, it's all important. 31 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:15.039 And we have several gate guests for you today. We're gonna appearing from Lorie 32 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:19.840 McGoey of five, David Linthicum, of Deloitte and our good buddy Matt McCarty 33 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:24.240 from Boomy off and helped evaalize the importance of architectural design choices. So tell 34 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:28.560 us a bit about yourself and what you do excuse me, what you're doing 35 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.639 in the space of APIs today. Wow, Well thanks for having me. 36 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:36.400 Like you said, I've done with F five for seventeen years. I've been 37 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.759 blossom through all of it. I am at this point, I'm a distinguished 38 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:45.919 engineer. So my opinion about things i'd try to try to be right. 39 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:52.479 And APIs is huge because it touches everything from automation right, we do app 40 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:55.039 delivery in security, so how do you automate that? How do you let 41 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.560 people out of the people who want to automate it? Right? APIs are 42 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:04.199 the ants, So there's APIs in use as right, how do we make 43 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.639 all of this possible? And then how do you go APIs or something that 44 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.759 people used to do those same things in the wild. So I spend a 45 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.639 lot of time looking at the market, looking at the technologies and how they're 46 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:20.039 being impacted by APIs and vice versa. But give my opinion. Yeah, 47 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.599 well, let's let's get your opinion on a couple interesting topics here. So 48 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:29.280 we were talking before shout the history about soap versus rest, for example, 49 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:32.360 and the whistle folks, the w three C folks years ago are saying you 50 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.120 should use soap. Use the silly people said, yeah, we're going to 51 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.759 go ahead and use. And then new things come along Kafka, Apache, 52 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:45.039 Kafka and streaming technologies and that to me, not to get too far off 53 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:49.719 topic, but when I think about streaming architectures and kafkun, of course there's 54 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.039 red pandas another one, and there's a few others out there. Red Pan, 55 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:54.719 I think, rewrote kaf because I think is what they did, because 56 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:58.879 they said they wanted to be more efficient, so they went out and they 57 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.759 did that. There's polar services. But to me, again, this could 58 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.879 come through an API, right, it's this data is channeled. These streaming 59 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:11.879 architectures I think are fantastic, but they're really seemingly only good for net new 60 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:15.120 use cases because there is this sort of mismatch in terms of how they operate 61 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.240 versus how the rest of your stick operates. But I'd be curious to hear 62 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:24.079 thoughts on that and the evolution for APIs and design and management. So, 63 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:29.360 yes, streaming data very different than right, how we normally think about assing 64 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:34.160 a record, right, it's right real time versus transactional, right, And 65 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:38.360 that's those are very data types. They're very different. Tray that you right 66 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:43.040 have to access them is going to be very different. You designed differently for 67 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.680 that. But the rise of streaming data and kind of the rise of the 68 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.480 awareness of data that hey, that's what we want. That's why applications exist 69 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:57.920 is just to get at data for us has kind of made closer to the 70 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:01.279 user, and APIs are doing that. You mentioned new things graph you all 71 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.519 is in part to do that, right, it's a more direct way to 72 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.439 access data as well as federate other APIs, which is great, But really 73 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.600 it's about getting closer to the data and making sure that that happens fast or 74 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.519 so when you're designing, you have to think about things like what you deliver 75 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.920 in time? Does it need to be constantly updated? Is it just record 76 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:27.480 in time? How fast do people need it? Is it going to an 77 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.519 application or directly to a client, is it going to someone else? Is 78 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.680 it a third party? Right? What is the use for that data? 79 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.879 That kind of buys a lot of the design of day. Yeah, and 80 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:43.680 so when I think about how big a deal this is for the hybrid cloud 81 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:46.439 world, you're always trying to optimize performance. Right, if you get right 82 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.000 down to brass tacks, there are lots of ways you can do things, 83 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:53.879 and what you want to do is be able to optimize performance and really give 84 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:57.279 yourself a fighting chance to live in a fast evolving world. I think that's 85 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:00.639 probably the real kicker these days. What do I hear? We had John 86 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:02.720 Santa far on a couple of weeks ago and he goes, agile is going 87 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.879 to kill our agility is gonna kill agile. I was like, what I 88 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.920 think about this point was, Yeah, this agile stuff, that's great, 89 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:14.160 but you need to be really agile like in your business and your architecture needs 90 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:17.600 to be designed to support that kind of thing. Ap play a big role 91 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:20.680 here in your opinion? How big a role do they play? And what 92 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:29.759 can a company do to enable themselves to get this agility? Wow? Breathe 93 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.160 first, Right, definitely right. I think we have to go back and 94 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:38.399 remember that, you know, as far as you know, like an enter 95 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:45.120 technical representation of the business, more and more digital, those two things have 96 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:50.680 come closer together. So APIs and are really I like to call them layer 97 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:55.199 eight on the stack, right, they're the business layer. They are really 98 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:59.399 describing your business and how you're going to in So that's a huge thing that 99 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:02.279 you have to actually pollmabous people have to understand just an afterthought, they have 100 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.079 to be designed together. So they need to come together and design that in 101 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:12.120 a very deliberate and thoughtful way, right, while also thinking about how might 102 00:07:12.199 --> 00:07:15.399 someone abuse that because they opposed this to everyone, to partners, to the 103 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:19.439 public, to random people right that we met, Hey use our API, 104 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:26.199 that's nice. How might they abuse that because they will? Right, No, 105 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.040 that's right. So that gets into the whole security issue. Let's talk 106 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.360 about that and I'll bring in our next get. As soon as I started 107 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.560 researching for this program, in my mind was that exact question. It's like, 108 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:39.680 Okay, if this is your new entry point for requests to serve your 109 00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:43.839 prospects, your customers, your high value customers, or your freebee customers, 110 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.600 whatever, well, lots of people are going to be trying to come in 111 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:48.720 that door, and lots of little tricks, like you know, over the 112 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:55.000 years of sequel injection is a real problem for organizations. Phishing attempts through email 113 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.959 like they're are bad guys everywhere these days, and they love to get creative 114 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.439 about a sneaking team environment. They have thoughts of myself over the years, 115 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.439 it wouldn't it be possible to sneak in through the API to talk about security 116 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:11.759 and what you do to secure your APIs? Well, yes they do, 117 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:18.399 and I think I've read multiple reports from many different right across the market, 118 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.480 and yeah, APIs are like the number one way that people are attacking, 119 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:28.600 right because it's a programmatic interface which implies not just me, right, I 120 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.919 actually need something an act that just click collecting that API. It's designed for 121 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.960 that in facts like right, we're just going to send a million bots against 122 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:41.399 you, right to do something right? My yeah, take over and how 123 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.240 take down your business? Buy all your sneakers or all of your ex boxes 124 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:52.039 before Christmas? Right? All of these are things that bots have done. 125 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.440 They've leveraged APIs to do that, so they're august to access it. But 126 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.879 that also means attack do and so watching, I mean sit in there, 127 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.759 getting observability into see very very important you see to log in and say, 128 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.320 oh here's me, I'm x y Z request could you please give me some 129 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:13.559 stuff. Here's me, I'm ABC request please give me some stuff like That's 130 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.279 that's a critical part of the process is as it comes in, like do 131 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.639 I like you? Are you okay? Or should I shut you off? 132 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:24.480 So I'm guessing you create blacklists right for people who come in, and they 133 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:26.080 usually do it by proxy too, so it's hard to keep tracking them. 134 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.720 But that is that one of the tricks that you use is to kind of 135 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.080 set up a list of troublemakers and say nope, don't let them in if 136 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.159 they come in from that address and I don't know, we know the neighbors, 137 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.879 we don't want them. That's you can do that, but the list 138 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:43.840 would get so big because most of the right the attackers are able. They're 139 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:50.399 using machines that they've compromised or boxing with this API. What are they doing? 140 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:54.639 What are the technique can see inside of the data that they're sending, 141 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.639 inside the network information they're sending, So observability is huge because you have to 142 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.840 see the network characteristics, the TCP stack, and then the actual requests that 143 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:09.600 they're making in order to kind of form a picture of is this a BOT 144 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:13.840 I don't like or is this a valid user right now, that makes sense. 145 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.279 Let's bring in our next guest. We've got David Linthicum of Deloitte waiting 146 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:18.960 patiently in the wing out there. So, David, you've been the cloud 147 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.840 expert for decades. You've been tracking this stuff alone a long time. We 148 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.159 even joked in the broth EAI, I remember that enterprise enterprise appatient integration right 149 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.279 when we've got a point to point stuff. Now you've got Kubernetes andalponent that's 150 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.559 changing things up. But tell us the latest that you've seen about APIs and 151 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.919 API management and what you think folks should do. Yeah, APIs are becoming 152 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.320 everything in terms of how you image infrastructure, and so certainly in the clouds, 153 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.759 we've always been accessed via well defined API. As Lee say's the way 154 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:50.759 now that we're getting into a multi cloud deployment. He mentioned that up with 155 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.759 our existing on premise systems, by the way, throwing edge computing and by 156 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.240 the way, throwing all the net new AI systems that have come online in 157 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:01.039 the last couple of years, we have a plexity issue, and the ability 158 00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:07.120 to mediate this complexity typically means that we're getting at these various systems through very 159 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:13.559 similar interfaces that are able to operate across operate across resources, and so API 160 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.240 has become insists with the ability to back those resources down into common layers, 161 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.840 are able to access knowledge engines, as behaviors, as application data, things 162 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:28.799 like that. That's able to reduce the amount of complexity and increase the agility 163 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:33.360 of the business. The ability to orchestrate and reorchestrate business processes to align directly 164 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:37.519 to the business needs versus building everything as a one off application development project that 165 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:43.440 occurs within a particular provider. That solves a tactical problem, it doesn't solve 166 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:46.279 the strategic I think fundamental issues that people are running into today. There's too 167 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:50.679 much, too many moving parts out there. We went from like three thousand 168 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.279 services under management to ten thousand services under management. The ability to combine, 169 00:11:54.360 --> 00:12:00.559 to manage and secure them through a single single interface layer only we're going to 170 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.080 make cloud that's a great quote, right thresh write that down. The only 171 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.240 way we're going to make cloud scale is to be more respond to APIs is 172 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:09.000 what you're saying, right, absolutely, and we've kind of lost that as 173 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:13.519 a as a talent. We know how to leverage APIs, we know how 174 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:18.080 to leverage micro services services as far as how we design these property lay just 175 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.960 mentioned it. The ability to have different API patterns that serve different purposes, 176 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:28.559 streaming data, the ability to have information that's for APIs to produce behavior, 177 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.679 the ability to have them act upon things and act upon data and be able 178 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.799 to reuse those from the main to domain to domains seem to be some kind 179 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:37.639 of a lost art. And we've had this. We had the rise of 180 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.879 service range architecture years ago, and everybody thought they were going to get really 181 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.480 good at, you know, leveraging orchestrating these services into reuse and common sets 182 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.240 of systems. That hasn't. We're not putting reuse into thinking how we're designing 183 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:54.960 APIs, which has to be on the critical path. Yeah, that's a 184 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.840 really good point in I've thought many times about the history of SOA, and 185 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.600 oh, it seems to me that the best practices of SOOA have sort of 186 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.639 been baked into the cloud these days. And even though we don't talk about 187 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.320 service orientation, it just it became a mindset of how to do things and 188 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.919 find grain and coarse grain, for example. And so even though this Kubernetes 189 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.600 generation is not a perfect analogy. It's attacking some of the same needs, 190 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.360 the same business needs, with some of the same principles. Right it is 191 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.240 it is, and ultimately it becomes a very standard way and a common ecosystem 192 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.759 where you can build and deploy these APIs, And I think that's a very 193 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:37.519 helpful thing. We just sometimes speed and the ease of developing these things, 194 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.039 what I call the speed of need, can get in the way. We're 195 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:43.600 not doing enough and designing these APIs so they're reusable across domains. We're typically 196 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:48.120 designing them so that the purpose built for a given application task. And that's 197 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:52.279 not what architects do. I mean, Laurie said something very profound. Architecture 198 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.679 is a representation of the business. Absolutely it is, and the ability to 199 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:00.919 get to one optimized layer to bring the most value back the back to the 200 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:05.120 business is really is really what it needs to achieve. And we're missing that 201 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.240 somehow. We seem to throwing lots of technology, lots of very good technology 202 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.879 at these problems and we're just kind of making things worse. We're in a 203 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.480 hole and we keep on digging. Wow, that's pretty interesting. I think 204 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.240 we should dig into that. As I think to myself Again, what you're 205 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:26.039 trying to do from an API management perspective is get people what they want. 206 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:28.679 Right. So from a data delivery perspective, you know we've had all sorts 207 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.240 of different ways to deliver data. Right. We have data warehouses that gave 208 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.200 us the refined data. You have data federate, relige and caching to say, 209 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:39.759 ah, I know lots of people are asking for this, I'll just 210 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:41.840 have it at the ready boom here it is. Sometimes you get a deeper 211 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.799 request that takes more of the back end. Yeah, it does. Does. 212 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:48.960 You need to monitor and design needs to perform well. And they have 213 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.159 to be designed around multiple purposes and the way in which leverage the data. 214 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:58.399 They can't be purpose built or attach tole cominality services. So we can we 215 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.559 can start behavior caching. We can start with these services are able to span 216 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:05.919 different applications in different use cases, and that's kind of where we're missing the 217 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.919 mark. We have the tools and technology to do it. We have the 218 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.159 API management systems that are well advanced or what they were five years ago. 219 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.840 I'm just an extent and how they work. We just need to use them 220 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.039 properly and think through these would think through in terms of getting these deployed and 221 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:26.159 in a better these APIs right right. We need some simplicity and some orchestration. 222 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.320 Will folks will be right back. Don't such that dow you're listening to 223 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:35.480 Inside analysis? What are the fear massile? 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Welcome back to Inside Analysis. 265 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:59.400 Here's your host, Eric Tavanaugh sat all right, tickets to the future, 266 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.960 and next guest has been focused on the future for a long time. 267 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.400 He's been looking down the barrel of the future trying to figure out, all 268 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:07.680 right, how can we plan for this, how can we get around this, 269 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:12.200 how can we leverage these amazing opportunities coming through the cloud? And that 270 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.839 is Matt McClarty from Boomy. So, Matt, I think you were the 271 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.160 one who mentioned on our show about a month ago the amount of metadata that 272 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:23.799 Boomy has because thank goodness for YouTube, right, just like putting stuff together, 273 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.240 if you find the video of someone who can just show you do it, 274 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:32.599 that's a real examta Wittgenstein quote when he said some things cannot be said, 275 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.359 they must be shown and show someone how to do something. Oh my 276 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.440 god, is opposed to those diagrams. It's like three D diagrams that they 277 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.240 try to show you, and like, is this the back is at the 278 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.599 front? Is that the screw that goes in here? Like what reading that 279 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.839 documentation is just such a pain? Writing documentation as a pain. Of course, 280 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.039 now we have large language models that can absorb massive amounts of documentation and 281 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.599 give us some information about it. That's pretty cool. But with all that 282 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:59.640 as a background, Matt, I'll throw it over to you. What's the 283 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.799 late it's an API management and how is Boomi making lines easier? Yeah, 284 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.160 I think no, great, great point. In fact, I would say 285 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.519 that when it comes to API management, I think I don't think there's any 286 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:15.480 way to ignore the age that we're in now. You're talking about the future 287 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.240 and looking down the future. It's like the future hit us pretty hard this 288 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.079 year with a high level of a sudden exploding ont of the scene. So 289 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:26.799 I've been spending a lot of time kind of thinking through where does AI leave 290 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:33.039 the API space? Right? And I think you just mentioned the example. 291 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.720 They are large language models coming up with with succinct summaries of things, which 292 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.039 is great if they're accurate. They're not always accurate, right, So we're 293 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.480 at a real point now of bology is for prime time, but also how 294 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:51.200 ready organizations are able to take advantage of the technology. So a lot of 295 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:55.920 the yeah, we're our CEO is telling us you need an AI strategy now, 296 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.680 like we need to we need to do something right now. But the 297 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.480 fact of the matter is, you know, being ready to fully leverage the 298 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.799 whole AI takes time, and so we mentioned our experience at Booming where we've 299 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.920 got this metadata that takes years to build up and lots of analysis and understanding 300 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.720 and curation, and ultimately we have a good base to work when it comes 301 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:22.359 to making recommendations and doing things in the API management space. But not everybody 302 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:25.720 has that, So so I think, yeah, it's going to have a 303 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:30.720 huge act on every technology area. When it comes to the eyes, I 304 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.759 think that that is going to impact the fact APIs and how APIs are going 305 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:41.119 to impact the way people use AI. So the foremost migy space, how 306 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.160 are people going to access these language models? It's going to be via API. 307 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.519 That's that's what they're doing today. I think we as consumers may go 308 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.240 out and play around with chat, GPT and have fun typing, but for 309 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.880 the large majority of commercial uses of AI technology, it's going to be integrated 310 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:03.799 into automated processes and behind the scenes and systems of engagement user experiences. That's 311 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.599 all going to be done by a term that's out there for like how do 312 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.599 you actually interact effectively the way that can give you the results you're looking for 313 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.519 you do prompt engineering, what is the actual medium for prompt engineering? It's 314 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:21.440 it's APIs for the most right, So you know, there's going to be 315 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:26.720 I think that there's a huge role when we think about you regulate the flow 316 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.079 of data between your organization and the AI models you're going to be working with. 317 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:37.319 I think it's going to be impractical for most organizations to be taking you 318 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.279 know, trying to build their own just structure you need to do. That 319 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:44.240 is for only you know, it's really only the hyper scale cloud providers and 320 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.119 a few others who are going to be able to do that. So much 321 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.480 better to focus on how do you protect your data interact with and a lot 322 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:53.319 of that comes down to just working with your own data, governing your own 323 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:59.319 data, cleaning your data, and providing the right context. So I think 324 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.400 history in the API management space, a lot of the focus has been on 325 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.839 providers. Like when we you know, I've been in the API management business 326 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.880 a long time. A lot it's a lot of companies who are saying, 327 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.920 hey, we've got stuff, we want to turn it into APIs, we 328 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:18.000 need API management. And you're going to see a whole new category of API 329 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.960 management that it's required where companies are going to say, well, we're going 330 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.319 to be consuming all these APIs. We don't want our developers just going off 331 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:29.400 and plugging into every API that's out there in the ecosystem. We need to 332 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.559 have governance around that. We've been sure that we've got data privacy protective flow 333 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:37.599 of TRAFFICO that we're protecting. Qual going to sort of invert the perspective on 334 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:41.200 what type of API management is needed. There's going to be a lot more 335 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.400 consumption of APIs and all out of players and that ran of API management. 336 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.799 Yeah, I think that's a very very good prediction. Quite frankly, you 337 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:53.039 think about the importance of leaning on these spigots, these faucets to get your 338 00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:57.160 water. I mean, think about how in some older houses, if you're 339 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:00.880 into the toilet or someone turns the washing machine on downstairs, all of a 340 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:03.920 sudden, the water, you know, how it gets cold. You're like, 341 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.920 oh, no, stand out of the way. Is the rule of 342 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.160 thumb, you know, you're terrible about that. I mean, you have 343 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.480 to be sitting there watching the data that's going out, what is behind. 344 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.880 We bolster all this stuff in you and to be able to handle all this 345 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.000 stuff, and how do you manage how do you how do you throttle low 346 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:26.759 value requests and how do you enable high value quest to get through? Are 347 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:32.200 those just business rules or something that get impacted and you sense who's coming in 348 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.000 now, sorry, you're in the low tier. I'd imagine that's a piece 349 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.359 of metadata on the top of that request that's coming through. It's like okay, 350 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:40.880 wait a second, and then when the big train goes through, they 351 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:41.920 paid a lot of money, then you get your stuff. Is that kind 352 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:48.039 of how it works? Yeah, I mean definitely. I think to David's 353 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:52.519 point earlier about designed right, I think that people not only are they not 354 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:59.960 necessarily designing api is to be developer friendly just from sort of structuring the message 355 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.240 in the data, but you really need to think about the design of APIs 356 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:10.000 from a quality of service perspective, Like that's a good analogy of these buildings 357 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:15.319 in New York or shared accommodations where you've got all this plumbing and other electrical 358 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:18.880 wiring, all that stuff that's going to be the enterprises. So so not 359 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:23.160 only do we have hybrid going on, they now are depending on fundamental services 360 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:27.119 from third parties. They're already doing that for cloud infrastructure. I think a 361 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:32.599 lot of organizations don't even realize just how dependent they are on API based services. 362 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.519 It is so they might understand that they've got sprawl when it comes to 363 00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:41.480 relying on SaaS appations comes to relying on APIs already. And so I think 364 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:48.279 that I think to Laurie's point about layer the business layer of your infrastructure, 365 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.039 if you think about allow you to have a more normalized view of what that 366 00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.599 looks like. There's a lot of what I'm now salves consumers of other adays. 367 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.559 Having that understanding, having that observability and governance on it is crucial. 368 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:04.359 Just one other thing on the AI front that sort of relates back this is 369 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.920 I don't think I think there's I am both an optimist and also I can 370 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.559 be a bit cynical about this, Like there's an where can rely on APIs 371 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.559 not only as only as places where they provide data, but as places where 372 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.480 they collect data, Like there's you're going to get incredible. You have the 373 00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:27.519 opportunity to collect incredible amounts of contextual information about your business. If this is 374 00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:33.400 your business layer, not only are you servicing whoever the consumers of these APIs 375 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:38.240 are you're also at that point of consumption, you understand context. You you 376 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.559 know, it's not it's not like it's just like somebody walking into a store 377 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.519 using a credit card and you see a purchase. Like you've got the full 378 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:49.480 context and the digital footprint of people using these APIs. The more you're able 379 00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:55.519 to capture that context at the point of consumption of the APIs valuable insights which 380 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.240 can be fed back in and so on and create sort of this flywheel effect. 381 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.640 But that's the possible ability a lot of the crawl walk before they run. 382 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.920 Yeah right, you know, Laurie, I'll bring you back you since 383 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.519 Matt was kind enough to reference here, and I'm thinking and I love this 384 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.599 concept because we're going to do a show on observability later this week and Laurie 385 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.880 mcvideoll throw this over to you to really should feed design because when you can 386 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:25.599 see what it's being requested of your systems, then you can better understand how 387 00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:30.000 to optimize those systems. You know we put behind this particular data store or 388 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.039 that particular data store, because that's wing to me, that makes a lot 389 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.000 of sense to kind of watch the ingress to egress what's coming in what's going 390 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.799 on clues and design? Is your design and evolve your design? What do 391 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.920 you think, Laurie? Oh? Absolutely, I mean it feeds. It 392 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:48.640 feeds both the business and right technical decisions. Right on the business side, 393 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:53.359 if you have that context like Matt was describing, you can also ascribe it 394 00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:59.359 to a customer and you can look at buying patterns and habits and interactions and 395 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.599 say, wow, they're not in right, sybe we should do something about 396 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.079 that. You can address it from a human element. But on the technical 397 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.680 side, it's also well why right, Oh, because they moved to this 398 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.200 remote Look, maybe there's an education where we can actually there so everyone there 399 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:21.640 is getting better performance and actually start making decisions about where you distribute your your 400 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.640 front end, your data. Right, put your security in a different place. 401 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:29.079 Right, What is impacting the performance? Is it? Is it just 402 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.640 a bad switch? Is it? Is it a distribution problem? Is it 403 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:37.400 a design problem? Right? Is this one API just pulling like too much 404 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.880 data? Did you need all of that? Did you just need deliberate thoughtful 405 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.400 Right, they've been touched on this. Right, you have to act right 406 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:48.240 all right? Endpoint. It's imperative. Don't give out more than you need 407 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.440 to because that impacts performance and it's also a security risk. So you know, 408 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.640 you got to approach it more strategically and more deliberately when you design the 409 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.759 ap right, are you going to be able to feed that serve ability in 410 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:04.640 and start understanding the impact and get into that you know, virtuous cycle of 411 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:08.839 design and data right. Yeah, it's an interesting point, and David, 412 00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:12.279 I'll bring you back in. You know, I remember learning about code bloat 413 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:17.559 about twenty odd years ago. One of the data developers that a company called 414 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:21.279 Damon Consulting where I was the communications guy. He those he used that term 415 00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:22.559 cobos at coblo. What does that mean? He goes, Well, basically 416 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.839 what happened is when the processors got really fast, the developers got lazy, 417 00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.559 because he used to have to be real refined and very assiduous in your choice 418 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:36.599 of co functions and how you layered them, how you strung them together. 419 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:38.480 And then when the processers got bafter that who cares to do it and do 420 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:42.000 whatever we want? And that created code. Well, to pick on his 421 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.319 Microsoft from years ago, and if you were to go into Microsoft World and 422 00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:48.799 then set open that document and a text desk editor, it was like four 423 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.200 pages long. I'm like, Okay, I don't think I needed all those 424 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.960 meta tags. Microsoft, thank you very much. I appreciate it, but 425 00:29:56.279 --> 00:29:59.400 that was a bit of overkill to use Laurie's term. But but what do 426 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.880 you think about all David, Yeah, I think it's I think it's spat 427 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:07.319 on thinking. I mean, the reality is we're seeing code blood today around 428 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:12.799 AI based systems that are built around developments and others using autocoders and things like 429 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:18.279 that that are becoming very inefficient ways to do things that are fairly simple. 430 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.680 We're making We're making simple things complex. So as we move forward, the 431 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:27.519 ability to have the ability to see the span of what these APIs are doing, 432 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.279 you just kind of hit the whole observe ability piece, but which I 433 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:34.000 think is spot on. It's about looking at something in more than a single 434 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:41.000 dimension. And so Laurie's example with the ability to link performance into customer interaction, 435 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:47.000 link to revenue, and link to industrial behavior and link that into the 436 00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.880 future vision of the product, and all these sorts of things that people typically 437 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:53.359 don't think about. Your ability to understand API design and how you build APIs 438 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.640 and deployee APIs and secure APIs and the context of all that information really kind 439 00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:02.680 of is the secret here. And the reality is we have the information, 440 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:06.880 we have AI opspace systems, we have observeability systems that are built into DevOps, 441 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.039 we have certainly lots of best practices and how we build APIs. We're 442 00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.799 just not thinking about how we do this in a tactics way. So we're 443 00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.880 getting to the end state. We're building APIs and I tell this to my 444 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:23.359 teams. Figure out which one is going to bring the most value back to 445 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:27.519 the business application or even serve the user. Well, in other words, 446 00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:32.079 we're productizing things. We're thinking in a different way. We're suggesting a while 447 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:37.200 getting a quality of service that's going to provide it by this API that's typically 448 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.160 not And we have to kind of take our games level based on the fact 449 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.720 the stakes that are on the line right now from many of these businesses, 450 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:47.160 and certainly AI is going to change the dimensions there. But we've got to 451 00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:48.839 be able to take this information, do something useful with it, turn it 452 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:55.079 into engineering disciplines and the ability to produce these things with product like efficiency or 453 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:59.160 just not there yet. Yeah, those are all excellent points, and when 454 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.359 you think about just how important These APIs are for acting as gateways not just 455 00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.480 to innovation, but gateways to anything, gateways to getting data to do stuff 456 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:12.480 in the business. You realize how important it is to get some consensus around 457 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.119 this with folks. Don't touchet, that will be right back. You're listening 458 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.559 to him. Are you paying high fees and getting low returns? If? 459 00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.799 Oh, Annuity General would like you to have this free book to learn the 460 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:25.160 pitfalls and mistakes of buying an annuity. 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We'll face the facts. 494 00:34:55.519 --> 00:35:00.199 You made a mistake. You made a bad purchase. A timeshare is 495 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:04.760 not an investment. It's a money pit that continues forever. If you use 496 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.639 your time share, that's great, and you want to legally get out of 497 00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:13.880 your contract the time Share Exit Hotline. They're an experienced team of lawyers who 498 00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.840 help good people like you get out of a time share contract that they just 499 00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.880 don't want. Don't throw away your money on maintenance fees. Use it for 500 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.920 things you really want. We can help you end your time share contract and 501 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:30.199 stop the money drain immediately. If you are ready to move on with your 502 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:34.880 time share, call our team right now. Cancel your time share now with 503 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.559 a free call. Eight hundred two hundred two eight nine O four one three 504 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:44.239 eight hundred two eight nine O four one three. That's eight hundred two eight 505 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:52.400 nine zero four thirteen. Welcome back to Inside Analysis. Here's your host, 506 00:35:52.880 --> 00:36:00.360 Eric Kavanaugh. All right, folks, back here on Inside and Else is 507 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:04.679 what a fun show to mcbiddie from F five and David Lent the Crumb de 508 00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:07.760 Lloyd and our good buddy Matt McLarty from Boomy, And we were just talking 509 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:14.079 about architectural designs and busy being the enemy of creative and I thought to myself, 510 00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:17.440 Matt, you had mentioned that mindset is really important here, and it's 511 00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:23.079 always important, especially in architectural discussions, because if you solve something way up 512 00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:28.280 high or way down low in the architecture, that can have a trickle effect 513 00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:30.679 and improve everything along the way. And it reminded me of my childhood. 514 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.760 And I was really blown away by Carl Sagan and he was talking about a 515 00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:38.400 two dimensional world and he did like a little exercise where he had bits of 516 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:43.239 paper on a table, and he said, these are two dimensional creatures. 517 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.519 And I'm moving and rest someone comes along and picks one up, and now 518 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:50.119 it's in the third demand and that little piece of paper can see all the 519 00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:52.239 other pieces of paper down there, like Holy Christmas. But that now I 520 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:55.280 can see everything. That's why I couldn't get over there, because this guy 521 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:58.880 was in the way and that guy was in his way. I'll never forget 522 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:02.159 that I was. That is very very interesting to step outside of the construct 523 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:07.199 that is confining you and see it from that perspective, and they're all, 524 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.440 what do you think? Absolutely? I think. I think mel Conway of 525 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:15.320 Conway's Law fame has been talking about this a lot recently about the containing system 526 00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:21.480 and always trying to think from the perspective of the containing system that contains the 527 00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.719 system that you're thinking from. So, you know, it's something that David 528 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:31.039 was talking about earlier, how we can use APIs as a level of abstraction 529 00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.960 to just get us a lot further along with solving problems. But we're seeing 530 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.199 this all over the place. I think, you know, we've had for 531 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.000 a while now, for years, maybe even decades, we've been running up 532 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:47.320 against the capacity almost it's almost a societal weblosion now, the AI explosion. 533 00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:52.039 There's more and more reliance on this skill set around being a software engineer, 534 00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:58.159 and there's only so many software engineers out there right and there I would argue, 535 00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:01.039 there will only ever be you know, some percent can be software all 536 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:06.920 wired. So we need to think about how do you first of all, 537 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.079 think more broadly than just taking the perspective of the software engineer, because you 538 00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:15.679 said, now busy is the enemy of creative software engineering. Software engineers are 539 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:20.840 brasy that we see where design maybe gets pushed aside where people are thinking from 540 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:24.119 the perspective of the learning pristmas because so much reliance has been put on these 541 00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:30.280 busy software engineers. So I think APIs offer us the opportunity to come up 542 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:35.239 a level and have a level of abstraction to make to bring more people of 543 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.880 different backgrounds to be not only user technology, but builders of technology, builders 544 00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:44.880 of software based solutions, designers to some extent developers. And that's kind of 545 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:47.079 in terms of the work that I've been doing and that we're doing at boom 546 00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:52.559 Is to lower the barrier of entry. But I think even APIs themselves though, 547 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:57.440 can present sort of a barrier to entry because they assume that developers are 548 00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.440 going to take in the specs, build the apps that use How do we 549 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:06.079 even provide even more abstraction and more accessibility? And I think that's another place 550 00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:09.559 where maybe AI plays a role here, not so that it creates a bunch 551 00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:14.599 of digital pollution, like as possible if you know, if you were to 552 00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:17.039 I've seen a lot of articles lately where people are saying, well, AI 553 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:21.119 is going to write all the code, you don't need coders anymore, right, 554 00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.000 Well, how many times have we heard that? And the fact is, 555 00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:29.199 like it will you know, it will just write it probably could write 556 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.320 some stuff, but you're not necessarily the design problem comes in again, because 557 00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:36.599 you could write a bunch of like a Root Goldberg machine spaghetti coerciently. But 558 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:38.840 I think there are ways that we can use AI to just be in more 559 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:44.079 inclusion, more people who can be builders. You're going to get more ideas, 560 00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:45.639 and you're going to get more perspectives, and I think maybe you'll get 561 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.920 more of a of a priority around design and the human element of the systems 562 00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:54.440 that we build. But I think that's all very accurate and compelling. Lauren, 563 00:39:54.480 --> 00:40:00.280 do you kind of getting back to how the API layer is your isn't 564 00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.000 this layer? And we talk about data is the new oil and all this 565 00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:07.679 kind of stuff, and it is. It's valuable if it's refined, right, 566 00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:09.679 if you do a whole lot with that has to be refined. But 567 00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:15.159 what I love about this conversation here is thinking about how old and how developers 568 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:20.760 working directly with operations people fundamentally changed the relationship or the nature of it. 569 00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:23.440 And if you're building things, and it was great because you put these people 570 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:29.159 in contact, they can have direct conversations build stuff. Now, the documentation 571 00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:32.280 I think was a bit of a casualty and all that and so you knowing 572 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:35.599 what was done and be able to fix it, that was you know a 573 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:37.880 little bit of it. When I think about data people as well, sitting 574 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.880 at that table talking about the data, because the data tells you moving through 575 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:47.119 your organization right now, that's what your organization is doing. And APIs are 576 00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:52.679 this really interesting choke point in that process. So you know when you you 577 00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:55.199 can't have don't cover every space of any big open wall back. So that's 578 00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.000 and so in that sense, APIs are a tool in the governance space. 579 00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:05.119 What do you think oh sure, sure, And I mean ultimately you're you're 580 00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:08.920 talking or the problem of silos. Right. We siloed, right, and 581 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.639 we broke the dev and the OPS silo and we said, here, play 582 00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:16.000 in the same place. Now, maybe they'll put out an API that's the 583 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:20.880 same. But the people over on the OPPS side and the network or the 584 00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:23.360 security side, well, they've got their own APIs. It goes back to 585 00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:28.920 it, you know David was alluding to earlier. Right, every cloud has 586 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:31.000 their own API, and every tool had their own API. It's like the 587 00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:36.000 Saint Ives right poem, you know, and every cat had seven kits, 588 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:39.199 and every cloud had seven APIs, and every API had set It just goes 589 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:44.400 on and on, and it's complex, and it's all rooted in this idea 590 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.079 of silos and building ivory towers and kingdoms and right. I mean, we 591 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.920 could go into the philosophy of all of that, but it's it's really that 592 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:58.599 we've got all these silos and we just keep excluding people and so we don't 593 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.480 build and think from a higher level, I need this, so I'm going 594 00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:05.360 to build an API to do it, and I don't stop and think, 595 00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:08.039 well, but they need to do the same thing. It's just maybe a 596 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:12.320 different data source or a little bit different. Maybe we should talk. No, 597 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.480 I have to get my stuff done right. It's just so it perpetuates 598 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:22.360 rights. It's just continually this problem of we're building things down here instead of 599 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:27.559 up at the higher layers, at an abstracted layer right above everything. That's 600 00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:29.519 a good point, and David, I'll bring it back, and we have 601 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:34.039 a good comment from our virtual studio audience here. One of our folks is 602 00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:36.880 saying, you know, good point. What is broken that needs to be 603 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:42.519 fixed? Calling it design distracts from this fundamental in my opinion, I mean, 604 00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:44.760 you do have to watch out for these words, right. People here 605 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.119 like an assessment. It was like, no, I'm too busy. But 606 00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:51.000 how do you articulate this to the business? I mean, obviously people in 607 00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:53.800 certain roles are going to know the chief technology optor, the IO, the 608 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:55.960 C cell. They all need to know about this stuff. How do you 609 00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:59.480 get other people to care about it? I guess the question, David, 610 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.079 Yeah, I think you need to put it into tiers. So we'll put 611 00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:07.199 a developer and we'll put an architect for a particular application to deal with all 612 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.559 the tier laders down to the resource APIs that we're dealing with, and I 613 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:15.480 think that the API line that we need to get into is so specialized it 614 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:20.559 probably warrants that we have a certain community of users and designers and engineers that 615 00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:25.920 just deal with the API layer and therefore if they're able to develop amazing APIs 616 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.239 that are able to do amazing things for the applications. And we have a 617 00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:35.079 certain layer right now. We have inconsistency with developing APIs within enterprises because we 618 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:39.119 have different teams in there developing APIs using they think need to leverage and trying 619 00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.960 to build them as best they can and always silot as silt a silo to 620 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:46.679 Laura, think that this is really kind of the common interface that gets into 621 00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:50.519 the business. In others, if the business is going to be a giant 622 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.760 application or data source into itself, what kind of APIs or interfaces or services 623 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.960 do we need to stand up that best access is the business and that includes 624 00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:04.360 some of the AI capabilities that are moving forward to mass point. So then 625 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:08.119 we can build applications very easily off of these systems. We can build rechestrations, 626 00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:12.760 layers be easily off these systems. We just have the idea now that 627 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:16.480 everything's down to an application platform and everybody's going to build in design and application, 628 00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:20.920 including the APIs. I think they should be torn off and they should 629 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.920 be abstracted, and we have a certain level of expertise that works on the 630 00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:28.920 APIs for the particular business. Some enterprises are doing aspects of that, but 631 00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.119 they're not getting to a point where it's any We're at a level of scale 632 00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:37.199 that it's beneficial. Yeah, wow, those are all excellent points abstracted out. 633 00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.000 It is a specialty. It's an area of specialization that we do want 634 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.920 to still have specialization. I mean, it's it's so fascinating how this gen 635 00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:50.800 AI stuff is shaking up the educational world and the creative world, and it's 636 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:52.039 just starting. I mean, I gotta tell you folks that we are at 637 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:58.800 the first phase of disruption from these new foundational models is really what they are. 638 00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:01.840 And right now they are focused on creating content, but we're getting smart 639 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:07.039 about embeddings and vector databases and things of this nature. Anchors of truth is 640 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.159 what Brian Raymond from Unstructured dot Io called it, and I heard that, 641 00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:13.800 I was like, oh, I'm gonna steal that term, but I'm want 642 00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.559 to use that every day, all day Anchors of Truth podcast. Bonus segment 643 00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:20.840 is coming up next, folks, seman Email infot Inside Analysis dot com. 644 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:32.079 You're listening to Inside Analysis in the no I'm Sarah Parker. Right. Did 645 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:37.519 you know here at KCAA ten fifty am that we developed an app for all 646 00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:42.159 your Android devices. We're talking about your smartphone, your tablets, you name 647 00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:46.199 it. You have an Android format. You can take KCAA with you everywhere 648 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:51.480 you go. We're talking about our audio stream, our video stream and even 649 00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:58.480 our podcast. Go to KCAA express dot com. That's case Express dot com, 650 00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:06.760 k c AS dot com. Peter Gallagher once again named Eyebrow Magazine's Man 651 00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.920 of the Year. It's the Onion Radio News. This is Doyle Redland reporting. 652 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:15.519 The editors of Eyebrow Magazine made it official today. Actor Peter Gallagher has 653 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:20.840 once again been voted their Man of the Year. The annual award, based 654 00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:23.960 on both Eyebrow thickness and prominence, will go to Gallagher for the third year 655 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:29.400 in a row. Editor Mary Wells, you know with Brookshields star power, 656 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:32.440 you know, really on the decline and the seb passing of hydrogen bomb inventor 657 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.079 doctor Edward Teller, mister Gallagher was the clear choice here. Gallagher narrowly edged 658 00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:43.400 out to American pie star Eugene Levy, who was disqualified for publicly misusing his 659 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:47.599 eyebrows at a celebrity roast earlier this year. 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And from this time in nineteen seventy one, while Disney 691 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.360 World is set to open in Orlando, some thirty five major attractions are ready. 692 00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:35.840 Admission is going to be three dollars and fifty cents for adults and two 693 00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:37.960 dollars and fifty cents for kids. How do you know that a gentleman? 694 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:44.239 This is Bob X Mouse Scutaire, hope money. They don't build mice the 695 00:49:44.280 --> 00:49:49.079 way they used to do They thank you girls, wait for me in adventure 696 00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:52.559 Land And from September of nineteen eighty one, Chariots of Fire is released here 697 00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:57.159 in the US. It was released in its native England earlier this year in 698 00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:15.320 nineteen eighty one. Here is some of the Chariots of Fire theme with Moore 699 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:24.440 at Man from yesterday dot Com. 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Detroit Police Department veteran Joe Petrocelli 708 00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:07.280 admitted today that he was forced to use every harsh questioning technique he new in 709 00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:13.199 a confrontation with his own faith in God. According to Petrocelli, his doubt 710 00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:17.360 concerning the Almighty was by far the toughest adversary he has ever faced. You 711 00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:21.639 know, and I was trying to put it together, but it just didn't 712 00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:24.599 that up. Petrocelli has been put on a desk job by his precincts captain 713 00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:29.480 who was quoted as saying, for him, the case has gotten too personal. 714 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:36.280 Well, Redland for the Onion Radio new why are you listening to this 715 00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.880 radio station? Why when you can host your own radio show. You're listening 716 00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:43.880 and you think you can do better. You have a message or a product 717 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:46.880 you want everyone to know about. Host your own radio show. Team up 718 00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:52.119 with the area's best radio professionals and let them make you sound like you should 719 00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:58.480 be on NBC KAA. NBC Radio that is, KAA produces more than fifty 720 00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:01.800 local programs each week, ranging from business and sports to political talk, vegan 721 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:06.719 diets, or even marijuana related issues. We don't just broadcast on the radio. 722 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.800 We broadcast to the world online, on TV, on social media, 723 00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:14.920 on Facebook. You'll be all over. Imagine what your friends will say and 724 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:19.400 KSEA reaches over five million people joined the staff on ten fifty AM and one 725 00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:23.039 oh six point five FM and BC Radio. Jump on the KCAA Express called 726 00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:27.639 nine O nine seven nine three one zero six five. That's nine O nine 727 00:52:27.880 --> 00:52:38.880 seven nine three ten sixty five and get ready to transmit. Was your car 728 00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:43.960 involved in an accident or just need help with dents, all magic paint and 729 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:47.800 body collision Centers in business for over thirty years. They're highly trained staff and 730 00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:52.559 certified technicians and friendly staff are the best of the business and treat each car 731 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:57.079 as if it was their own. 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It's more than just a 758 00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:07.320 show, it's a lifestyle. You can also find us on Casea Radio dot 759 00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:14.679 com or our website CACA Whateverworks dot com to find upcoming and previous episode. 760 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:22.280 We like to thank all the case A listeners for supporting our show. The 761 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:27.639 benefits of adding a Ritchie to your operation extend far beyond saving you time, 762 00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:32.000 money, and water. By choosing Richie, you'll conserve water, protect the 763 00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:37.679 land, reduce energy, and promote a healthier environment for generations to come. 764 00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:44.400 Because we know, like you know, that every save drop matters. Start 765 00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:52.159 a ripple effect of sustainability today. 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NBC News Radio, I'm 782 00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:07.719 Chris Garagio, a New York House Democrats says New Jersey Democratic Senator Bob Menendez 783 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:13.360 should resign after being indicted on bribery charges. Consistency matters shouldn't matter whether it's 784 00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:17.280 a Republican or a Democrat. The details in this indictment are extremely serious. 785 00:57:17.679 --> 00:57:23.119 Speaking on CBS has faced the nation, Congresswoman Alexandria Kazio Cortez emphasized that someone 786 00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:28.320 charged with the crime is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but also said there's 787 00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.920 a high standard of dignity in being a member of Congress and that Menendez's resignation 788 00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:37.480 is in everybody's best interests. Starting today, President Biden will host a somewhat 789 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:40.440 with leaders of Pacific Island nations. Scott Carr has more from Washington. It's 790 00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:45.760 part of what's being called a US charm offensive to cut off further inroads by 791 00:57:45.880 --> 00:57:50.400 China and a region Washington has long viewed as its own backyard. During a 792 00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:54.599 three day meeting, the Biden administration will announce official diplomatic recognition of two Pacific 793 00:57:54.679 --> 00:58:00.079 nations, Cook Islands and Niue. The US will also promise new money for 794 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:06.440 infrastructure, including an improvement of Internet connectivity using undersea cables. The Pacific Island 795 00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:09.480 leaders are also being honored at an NFL game. Dozens of players in the 796 00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:15.159 NFL are of Pacific Islander heritage. The Writers Guild of America is reviewing a 797 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:17.840 deal the Hollywood Studios called their best and final offer. After a day of 798 00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:23.840 marathon negotiations yesterday between the WGA and the producer's union, Guild attorneys are going 799 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:28.960 over the key points for final language on a three year contract. An insider 800 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:31.079 told Deadline their intention is to wrap this up by the weekend. Once the 801 00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:36.599 language is complete, the next step is ratification by guild membership. The first 802 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.719 asteroid sample collected in space by NASA is now back on Earth. A capsule 803 00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:45.960 containing a small amount of soil from the asteroid Beneux safely parachuted into the Utah 804 00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:49.480 Desert today, following a seven year on manned mission to the outer reaches of 805 00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:52.840 the Solar System. NASA says the goal is to help scientists understand how planets 806 00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:58.159 formed and how life began. I'm Chris Garraggio, NBC News Radio. For 807 00:58:58.280 --> 00:59:02.639 several years, Casey has been marketing the Youngevity brand of nutritional and personal care 808 00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:07.920 products. Our experience with Youngevity has been one hundred percent positive, so we 809 00:59:07.960 --> 00:59:13.760 are pleased to recommend them to you. Regarding nutritional supplements, we recommend pollen 810 00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:19.280 Burst in the berry flavor and tangy tangerine two point zero in the tablet form. 811 00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:22.679 For regularity issues, we recommend three day clans, and for personal care, 812 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:29.679 we recommend morning hydration cream. You can shop online for Youngevity at www 813 00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:34.440 dot KCAA team dot com, or you can order by phone by calling eight 814 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.400 hundred nine eight two three one nine seven and tell customer support that you are 815 00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:43.679 part of the KCAA team. Youngevity is an American company based in San Diego. 816 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:47.199 Call Youngevity at eight hundred nine eight two three one nine seven and ask 817 00:59:47.239 --> 00:59:52.639 about monthly autoship that allows you to buy Youngevity products at wholesale prices. That 818 00:59:52.760 --> 01:00:00.159 number again eight hundred nine eight two three one nine seven Kilistinea KCAA Lowelinda and 819 01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:04.679 one oh six point five FM K two ninety three CF Merino Valley. In 820 01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:08.440 February, Texas Senator Ted Cruz ran off to a luxury resort