Welcome back to Raised by Giants Illuminated Insights Discussion. We are live. Welcome
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We have a very amazing discussion for you guys today here with returning co
host Trey Hudson. But first a huge shout out to Gig for her support
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couldn't do this without you guys support. So now a huge welcome back to
the show. Former d D and US Army Military Intelligence, anti terrorism,
counterintelligence and security specialists recently retired Trey Hudson, Welcome back to the show.
It's good to see you brother. How's it going, Hey, everybody,
it's going great. It's kind of chilling out here in the living the dream
as a federal retire you know, growing those big retirement check. Life is
good. Life is good. Uh, you know, getting to kind of
refocus on, you know, some of the esoteric research that I've been doing
extracurriculars. So yeah, everything's great. Everything is really good. That's great.
I'm really happy to hear it. And so for a refresher, I
know that you've been on the show a couple of times, but for the
audience, what does a security specialist for the military do? Exactly right?
Right? The security specialist is is actually let me back up. I was
a army intelligence officer, you know, uniform wearing army guide for a while,
and then I transitioned over into the civilians sector, which is a federal
employee, you know, like your mailman, except our work for a Department
of Defense. And what a security specialist does is somebody that is responsible for
the administration of security practices, procedures, and elements to protect assets for information.
Now you have security specialist. When I first started my career, I
was what was called a physical security specialist, betweens. That was a guy
that protected widgets, where the widgets that I kind of oversaw and managed happened
to be a weapons of mass destruction. So you know, I had a
site I had about seven percent of our nation's chemical weapon stock pile. So
I was responsible for overseeing and managing the security for that. And then I
had a chance to get back to my roots and intelligence and transferred over into
what's called CP thirty five for intelligence. The previous career program was nineteen,
which was physical security and security, law enforcement security. That I moved over
to the intelligence side of security. My position was designated as a g G
general government position in the intelligence community, and I became responsible for protecting classified
material information assets, things like that. And then I retired as a supervisory
security specialist at one of our department offenses, Industrial organic industrial basis. A
lot of folks will know that d D has factories that build widgets and things,
and so I was the head of chiefest Security and Intelligence at this facility.
So I would do stuff like intelligence counter intelligence. We would let people
for their clearances. If people had problems, they would come to us.
That's actually something that's popped up here. Recently with mister Roush. You know,
the thing popped out saying, oh, you know he was he had
some mental health issues, how can he have a clearance? But absolutely,
people you know that have mental health issues can get treated and get cured and
regain their clearance. I mean, I've worked quite a few cases like that,
so it's it's not that big of a deal. So you know,
that's kind of what I did, you know, I worked. I have
to put a caveat there during the course of this discussion. I can neither
confirm or deny that I've ever been involved directly in any special access programs.
Take that for what it's worth. I can't confirm. I can't, Denny,
So I'll put that out there, so if people can read between the
lines, go back. However, because I have been to a lot of
schooling for security of special access programs. There's three levels of course is taught
by the Defense Counter Intelligence and Security Agency through their Center for the Development of
Security Excellence in elk Bridge, Maryland. So I've been to a lot of
courses on that, and so I have some experience and that kind of stuff.
So you basically it sounds really cool, sounds really sexy. Basically,
it's a bunch of paperwork and you know, trying to herd test. So
that's pretty much what a government security specialist does. So you're basically, we're
in charge of the classification process of certain documents cripts. No, that's and
that's that's it's kind of weird. And this is, you know, a
little bit of an education for everybody. Is the people that actually classify this
stuff is and I cannot remember the executive order off the top of my head.
Obama updated the executive order back when he was in office, but it's
an executive order that actually creates the Information Security Program, the info SEC program,
which is develops the procedures and the criteria for classifying confidential, secret and
top secret information and sub elements like Special Access Program, Special Compartment of Information.
Is actually a presidential program created by executive order. So it's the president's
program. He owns all the information with classified and then he appoints certain positions
sub ordinate to him that have what's called OCA or original classification authority, and
these are men and women based on their position, that can look at some
information say I think that this needs to be classified. They have to communicate
those classification decisions and something called an SCG, a security classification guide, so
everybody knows how to protect this information. I'll give you an example. The
Central Sitcom Command or Central Command Commander that was over afghanistann Iraq. He had
Original Classification Authority OCA. He could say, okay, all plans involving the
moving of logistics, materials and weapons into theater into Afghanistan and intilrest that has
to be classified at the secret level. His staff publishes a security Classification Guy
that goes out to all the security wings in the world. And all we
do is we take that SCG and you know, we can determine if the
information that we have is classified and we can properly market. So what we're
doing is we're doing stuff we call derivative classification, where we're driving our authority
from the OCA down through the security classification guide. So what I would do
is we would have products that we would develop, like I might command of
my say, okay, Tray, I need to know, you know,
what's the intelligence threat to this particular widget that we're working on, And then
I would go out into the classified world and I would pull down different data
points and reports and all, and I would develop a point paper and then
I would take the guy from the security classification that cross walk to classification secret,
the secret, confidential, confidential, unclassified, and classified and build a
classified document and stam at the top and bottom, and they present that product
to whoever the consumer is. So there's different peers of authority. ACA through
the appointment of the president can actually look at a piece of information say you're,
based on my authority, knowledge and experience, that needs to be classified.
As long as they communicate that, then everything's cool. That's why,
you know the idea of a president disclosing classified information. The president doesn't disclose
classified information. It's his information. He can disclose at any time he wants,
just by saying I don't think that's classified anymore. A good example of
that is during the Carver administration, President Carter had a little bit of a
bundle where he compromise the identity of some sensitive assets personnel that we're feeding information
to the US intelligence community. And people are like, well, you know
he you know he disclosed that information illegally. Well, you know, it
was really dumb, but it was his information to disclose. Now, people
probably ended up getting killed over that. But so anyway, it's it's a
really weird system. A lot of people don't understand how it worked, very
convoluted, and like I said, they have special schools, you know,
other than just for special access programs. They have collateral schools for providential,
secret and top secret that you go to when you spend several weeks in there
in Lithia, Maryland. Is there other classifications besides confidential, secret and top
secret? Because there's there's this thing within the community that you know, people
think that special access programs and that there's a level above top secret clearance and
that it all has the revolves around these reverse engineering of crashed alien technolog oology
and all that. So could you comment on that really quick? There are
three levels of classification. Confidential by definition, is information if improperly disclosed,
would cause damage to the national security, Secret information, if improperly disclosed,
would cause serious damage to the national security, And top secret information if discloses
would cause seriously grave damage to the national security. There is no level higher
than top secret. However, there is compartmentalization. Now you might have a
program that involves whatever, let's say we're building a missile hypersonic missile that stealth
just speculating, I'm just making that up. Is that program, let's call
that rampant Orange. R is the code word for that program. You might
have information that's mark top secret slash rampant orange, and that means only people
that are read into the rampant Orange program and have access to that compartmentalized information.
But that information is no more sensitive than top secret. So you'll never
see like rampant orange just as a header on a document. It would always
be top secret, rampant orange, secret, rampant orange, things like that.
There's only three levels confidential, secret, and top secret. There is
nothing above top secret. People, whenever I hear people use that term,
I want to pull my hair out. You might have. Yeah, there
were some, you know, compartments in both the SEI Special Department and Information
and Special Access programs that are code word programs, but never higher than top
secrets. Now, now, what would a program be classified under that has
been privately contracted out to private contractors like Raytheon and Bigelow Aerospace. Very good,
very good question. A really unique book that I encourage people to get
if they're even remotely interested in this. If I kind of peel fact that
the veneer on this and let you kind of peek into how the sausage is
made skin walkers at the Pentagon. It talks about how, through the work
of Senator Read and some other than Robert Bigelow, is they set up a
contract a classified contracted. Contracts are issued on something called a DD form two
five four and that creates a classified contract, tells you what level, and
then that goes into the saf arena. Is you will have a program security
office that the DoD official or a program security officer, and what that person
does they oversee how the contractor handles special Access information material and every SAP program
the information is processed or the widgets are manufactured and something called a SAP for
a special Access Program facility. And then you will have an individual that's either
a government SAP security officer GSSO or css a contractor SAP security officer has actually
an charge of the running of that special Access Program facility. If who comes
and goes, what information is brought in, how do they manufacture the widget
setting the people reading them into the programs, reading them out of the programs
when they leave. So the GSSO is the or CSSO is the person active
with boots on the ground making things happen to ensure the integrity of these programs
and classified contractor issued something called a cage code through the Defense count Intelligence and
Security Agency, and that's actually an ALP numeric code that people can go in
and verify that they are in fact contracted to do this information. But reading
the skin Walkers of the Pentagon, you're reading through it and looking at it,
I'm like, okay, yeah, they're getting all of this right.
It's this weird convoluted way that you set up a collateral program secret, top
secret, and then you compartmentalize a certain portion of it, set up a
sat up and go that route. So, in other words, being able
to take these special access programs through a private organization or a private group,
they would never have to come clean about any of these special access programs,
even if they were declassified or unclassified. Ah. Good point, very good
points. Here's from the caveats on that is, a person right into a
special access program, either own the government, government side of government worker or
contract worker, go through the same vetting process as anybody else. They sound
the same non discosure statements, and as long as that program is still valid
and the under Secretary of Defense has not done something called de establishment. As
long as it's still a valid program is you still are required by law to
protect the information that you've gathered during the course of your ten year working on
that program. You still have to protect it. Now, if a program
is de established and we talked about you know, our whether I say Rampant
Orange or whatever. Let's say that's de established as a special access program and
it's degraded to collateral secret, you still have to protect it a secret information.
You're just not compartmentalizing it anymore. Now, let's say years down the
road and I've seen this is these programs no longer have value to national security.
This information, if disclosed, would not damage national security. We're seeing
some stuff like during the Vietnam War that's not being declassified. Then what happens
is once as declassified, the original classification authority has to communicate that to everybody.
This information is now declassified, and it can be declassified down to something
called oh my mind has been completely blank CEUI controlled unclassified information which used to
be known as FOU or official use only, or completely unclassified, which means
it can be released to anybody anywhere. If information is considered unclassified, if
it's not classified or protected as controlled unclassified information by law, that information has
to be released to any request under the Freedom of information activitia Really quick,
Gig asked a question that she wanted you to go into a little bit more
about the Jimmy Carter League and where was it and if you had any of
the names of the people that he revealed the information about. Yeah, that's
a good that's a good question. I'm not quite as old as I look.
Somebody younger in the Carter administration. It was during a speech, and
I would have to go back and research, and I'm sorry, Gigi had
me off the top of my head. I don't remember the specific if it
was a speech to either a US or international group. And he alluded to
programs that we were using to click intelligence against foreign nations, and in the
part of the effort of doing that, he disclosed their identities. You know,
the information that he publicly put out here that the counterintelligence agency of these
countries could narrow it down and figure out how this information is getting out.
So he should, you know, a good Google search sho should come up
with that firefly said, so the theoretical thirty five levels above the president are
BS. Yes, absolutely, a matter of fact, is such BS.
I can smell it through the screen. I mean it's it's like anything else
is secret, competential secret, of top secret, and that's it. And
the only person that has the authority to even create this information security program is
the president. Now does that mean there's not stuff that's going on sub rosa
that the president does not know about? Yes? Absolutely, there are nefarious
actors and Department of Defense and just about every governmental agency that are doing very
knotty things against the American public they shouldn't do. Now, if they set
up an unauthorized this is where this gets interesting. If they set up an
unauthorized program that's not being run under the auspice of the executive order, then
it's not a legitimate program. And now the president know about that and maybe
not. That's the thing about some of the disclosure stuff that's come out here
recently, and mister grosh is you know, he is alluding to something that
might be a program that's not being run properly and within the confines of federal
law. So I think that's kind of what that whistleblower thing might have been
about. Yeah, that was the only interesting thing about that entire congressional testimony
was the talk of a special access program, that it's above congressional oversight.
That's literally the only thing. But people have been talking about that for a
really long time. Trade people have been talking about these how these programs are
funded, that they're overcharging for certain programs. I'm funny lying that money into
some sort of other special access programs. So it's really nothing new, but
it was something that kind of slipped by that I piqued my interest within the
congressional testimony. The rest of it is a waste of time for me.
Yeah, it was, well, yeah, and I think you hit on
something that's very important, is you know, his testimony, And I was,
you know, I didn't get a chance to watch a testimony. I
think I was taking a nap, like as a retiree at the time.
But yeah, I read that. I read the transcripts and all, and
I'm like, okay, if I am, oh, okay, I was
an intelligence guy and I hear somebody talking about a program okay, And yeah,
there's there's talking side of the intelligence community, and sometimes people that aren't
read into programs, pick up bits and pieces, you know, indicators of
other stuff going on, and I thought that this program was being done illegally.
There are three types of SAPs in the world. There's acknowledged, there's
unacknowledged, and there's a wave. An acknowledge SAP is I'll give you an
example, the stealth technology on our current priory aircraft that's protective under a special
access program. The actual technology about how they put the composites together in all
of that, we acknowledge that that's protected as a special access program. We
don't talk about the code work, but that's an acknowledged SAP. And then
you have something called an earningcknowledged SAP, which we don't acknowledge. At the
public people that are working on these programs, if they travel to meetings and
symposiums, the supporting counterintelligence entity might give them alternate our ideas passports, driver's
license and stuff like this, so when they check into their hotel of the
conference, they're not who they say they are. Example, if we talked
about a hypersonic missile stealth missile, if you had to do that, an
expert on ramjet technology got another dude that's a expert on guidance systems, and
another dude that's an expert on stealth technology. All three of these guys were
meeting in the same small town outside of the Dugway Proving Ground, in the
same hotel. The intelligence operatives that are monitoring that would say, okay,
stealth ramjets, guidance system, they're working on a hypersonic missile. So you
would have these guys travel under assumed identities with legitimate paperwork but with different names,
so that would be an uninnowed set. Those are line items, and
then the d D budget classified for these are lineapps. When you get into
something called unacknowledged septs, it starts getting a little spooking. These are not
budget items, and these the budgets for these programs are siphoned out of other
programs or other budgets. But they do have congressional oversites. You have the
senior ranking and the ranking member of the Senate, the controlling party, the
non controlling party seeing you a member of the both the House and the Senate,
and then the two top folks in the both the Defense and the Intelligence
committees. So there is congressional oversight and they are read into these programs because
they have to be. I mean, that's that's the constitutional duty of Congress
is to control the first strengths, regardless of whether this stuff is classfied or
not. That's where I think that this whole thing got sideways, is I
think that there are indicators that there was a program being run that had to
do with UAPs. Now, how far in town the rabbit hole that program
goes, I don't know. I'm I'm probably the only former D O D
guy that can honestly that says I had nothing to do with UAPs, nothing,
nothing at all. You know, I'm not that guy out there,
you know, talking about my involvement. No, I was not not that
guy at all. But man, I believe you because you've been seeing that
since the beginning. So yeah, I don't think that you had any knowledge
of any of those programs. No, I don't. But you know what
I think happens is, you know, mister Grouse got possibly got wind of
a program that was not undergoing proper congressional oversight, and so using the Intelligence
Community Office of the Inspector General YG he was a whistleblower, said I wish
to report something for fraud, waste and abuse. Inside of every sat AS
Special Access Program facility, there's a big poster right next to the door that
says, if you suspect fraud, waste and abuse for this program, call
this number and an agent will return your call, and it will be an
agent that's read into the program that you're concerned about. So I think you
know the way he went about that is it seems legitimate to me. It
seems like if I was somebody that got wind of a program being one outside
of US code without proper congressional oversight, that's how I would go the whistle
on it, usually intelligence community against itself. Yeah, And that's not the
problem that I have with the whole situation. The problem that I have with
the situation is him claiming all the other things that he's claiming. Right,
He's claiming that the government has crash retrieval extraterrestrial craft and that body's come along
with that, but yet he's presenting zero proof, zero evidence for any of
that stuff. I would not have one problem in the world with his testimony.
If that's all he went up there and talked about, was this special
Access program that would be like you coming forward Trey when you came forward a
couple of years ago about the Meadow project and you just started making outlandish claims
with no supporting evidence to any of the things to back up what you're saying,
right, you would look like a wha I could do if you came
on when you were talking about, you know, seeing you ap out in
the meadow and the black cube and the portal and the people going through the
portal, if you didn't have the evidence to back up those statements, which
I do believe that you do because I've seen it and it's very interesting.
I can't tell you what it is. I don't even think you can tell
me what it is, even though you've experienced and you have it on video.
Right. The problem is that he's making all of these claims with zero
evidence, zero proof, and when he's asked about the evidence and the proof
and to reveal the names, and the d D cleared him to speak about
whatever he wanted to speak about, right, And there is a it's very
important to listen to what he's not saying. And like I said, it's
these layers upon layers and machinations and byzantine gyration. Is all he said is
he heard about a program that involved the retrieval of craft or pieces of craft
and biological material. Odds are he probably was never read into that program,
so he doesn't have any concrete information. He just made he heard it and
pass it. So, I mean, he claims that he says that he
got this old information and this testimony is based upon stories, stories that he's
heard other people tell him. But why would you go up there in front
of Congress and just say a bunch of stories. That means that you could
literally be anyone that person. You could be any You could be someone off
of the street that heard the stuff off of the Internet and goes up to
Congress and says that we got extraterrestrial craft with a bunch of bodies that we've
recovered. But he wasn't saying that, I think in an effort of disclosure.
He was saying that to piss Congress, all, to make Congress angry
that they were somebody was running programs they had no oversight over and get them
to do the investigation. And the person that cleared him to speak to Congress.
In my opinion, this is a guest probably wasn't read into the program
themselves. It's like, uh, if I was going and I to do
this before I wrote my book, is I had to go to a release
authority and say, hey, I'm writing a book on you know, the
Metal project has nothing to do with my work. Here is extra curricular and
this, uh this authority said, yeah, no problem. So if he
goes forward and he said, hey, I'm going to be talking about craft
and biological material and all this wacky stuff, you know, the release authority
probably says, yeah, you're a nut job. Yeah, go ahead and
talk about it. That it's all a bunch of Boulder dead and the release
authority themselves might not have been read into the program, so they don't have
any authority or knowledge to put the brakes on it. It's all very crafty.
In my opinion. It's you know, he what he seems to be
doing, and I could be off base here, just he's looking at it
and the timeline of his activities. He's using the system against itself to force
disclosure. But that's enough. The problem, though, Trey, is that
even if this cond the special access program above Congressional Oversight, gets revealed,
does that prove the existence of all the rest of his claims? Does that
with that special Access program proved the existence of extraterrestrial craft. And it's another
interesting thing. He is the only one in this lineup of people that are
testifying Ryan Graves is their General Fraver or Captain Fraver. And they don't say
that it's extraterrestrials. Extraterrestrials or ets never once came out of their mouth.
The only person that's claiming that these craft retrievals, in these craft that these
people are seen is extraterrestrial is Grush, right, which I think was a
strategic move on Ryan Graves in and fravers in by not you know, denoting
the origin. Let me let me back up here. I don't think that
he actually said extraterrestrial, because he said that he didn't want to denote origin,
but non human non human, Yeah, yeah, non human or he
said, I think maybe non terrestrial. I'm trying to remember the terminology.
But you know, so, you know, here's my question is he always
have to wonder why, what, what's he getting out of this? You
know, he's had the fact that he had some psychological issues that apparently was
reported to his security manager, and he worked through and had his clearantryinstated.
You know, he's set himself up for ridicule. Why why you know,
either he's a nut, he's a liar, or he's a patriot. So
which one of those? You know, do people want him to be?
I don't know, you know, I'm kind of I have to kind of
take a look at the way he's going about doing this stuff, apply it
to my knowledge base, and say, if I was going to disclose or
force disclosure, how would I go if I do that while protecting myself,
You know, I would get that that top cover as a whistleblower, and
then I would make sure that I was publicly disclosing things that I had no
direct knowledge of. It give me some plausible to my ability. Oh well,
I'm not disclosing that program. I was never read into it. Show
me the nondisclosure statement of that program. But I signed. You're not going
to fight it because I'm not read into it. So it on certain levels
it passes the sniff test. Now the big you know, uh, you
know, in the Sanctum Sanctorium, the Holy of Holies, when you open
up the door and there's an integrat galactic Cadillac sitting in there, with you
know, you know, uh uh, you know, I can't remember that
the Martian from the Flintstones, but you know, waving at you. You
know, is that behind you know, the sealed door. I don't know,
but it's very interesting the way that this seasoned intelligence professional, there's a
veteran of the intelligence community, is going about doing this. Now. You
know, I can't speak to the veracity of anything that he said. I
do know how the system works, or parts of the system works, and
it seems like he's going through it in a very methodical and caught out a
way. So I guess I will tell certainly has people talking. Yeah,
I don't think that it's so much that he was a mental patient and he
was, you know, taken against his will to a mental hospital. It's
not so much that it's that he didn't disclose that information. That information had
to come out through a four year request to the Sheriff's department, right,
he didn't disclose that to Congress or anybody up front. And I think that
that's really what has screwed him on this whole thing. It's not disclosing it
up front, and then when people figure out that you're a mental patient,
that was locked up in a psych ward. Later on, after you've made
this testimony, then it kind of turns the tables just a little bit.
I disagree, and I'll tell you what. I was a dood security manager.
I dealt with that kind of stuff. And here's how that works is
there are thirteen factors. If anybody has really bored you to go to look
up add fifty two hundred point one R. That's the DoD regulation that talks
about personnel security, the vetting of people to give them access to cost by
information. There are thirteen factors that are considered PI or potentially derogatory information.
Mental health is one of them. Now that the operative word, and potentially
derogatory information is the p. Potentially derogatory information. I would have a person
with a clearance come to me or come to one of my subordinates as they're
servicing First SECT personnel security specialists, and say I have a problem the last
two weeks I was committed to a mental hospital. Cool, glad you disclosed
that you're required by law to disclose these things. I am going to suspend
your clearance. Okay, I'm going to suspend your access to classified information that
is now sent up to an organization. They used to be called DISC and
now it's the of it. They've changed I can't remember what they change the
name to it the Center for Background Information. They just change it when I
was getting out. But they will take that information and they will say,
Okay, Trey and your staff, any information that he has from his positions,
send that to us. We will adjudicate it. The adjudicators that make
these decisions for someone to keep or not keep their clearance long term has done
at a level much higher than me. They are completely unbiaed. They don't
even know these people. So we would take his medical records, we would
take his the statement from his psychiatrist saying, you know he had this associative
disorder. You know he's on medication. We're comfortable that he no longer poses
a threat to national security. He's lucid, and then we would send that
out by information up to the adjudicative For every disqualifying factor is a series of
adjudicative of mitigating standards. You know, did the person receive treatment, have
they been taking their medication, have they had any other outbreaks? And if
they can mitigate these factors, then they will send down a final determination give
mister Smith back access to class by information. Make sure he understands if anything
else, you know, comes comes about, he needs to report that through
the proper channels for his security manager can rock home. They're not in the
business of destroying people's careers. They're in the business of protecting national security.
Now, in his defense, what he might have said is, I had
a hard time. Yeah, doctors you ask if you can get a little
closer to the MIC. I guess they're having a hard time here in it.
Yeah, I should be coming through my hereby, but maybe this was
a little bit better. Uh, and so you know, what's that adjudicated
in his mind? Maybe that was uh, you know, everything was good
to go, Everything was was fine. Yeah, it's not even so much.
Again, I don't from my personal standpoint, like I'm not involved with
it with any of this stuff. But just by reading the document that was
received by the four year request that he was hospitalized twice, once in two
thousand and fourteen and once in two thousand and eighteen due to suicidal tendencies and
uh, substance abuse problems. It's not that he retained his clearance because things
happen, like people have a rough time in a hard time a lot,
right. Uh. You know, people have depression episodes all the time,
you know, and it can be considered mental health cases. It's not that
he retained his security clearance again, it's that he wasn't up front about it
to the Congress and to the people that. I mean, he's classified as
a whistleblower. He's made the right classification and fold out the right paperwork to
be covered under the Whistleblower Act. Right, So, when you're a whistleblower
that's supposed to be revealing extraterrestrials or these U SAP programs that are running over
congressional oversight, then you would want to disclose anything that would be farmtly potential
to you in your career going through it. Yeah. I guarantee that the
OIG investigator received the whistleblower complaint and the congressional investigators that did the you know,
that did the effort to bet this guy knew about that that's in his
security pile, you know that. So I think I think the people that
needed to know that knew it. And you know, it's of those things.
Do you want your dirty laundry to put out to the public A.
No, of course not. We're giving beings, you know, but I
yeah, I can have a little bit different. Yet, as a security
manager with a degree in psychology, I tend not to look at that as
too much of a stigma. If a person has been treated and is owning
their disorder. I also served in Afghanistan. Okay, that does something to
a first and so I'm not going to get too excited about that. Particular
things about the people that needed to know that illness, his treatment and subsequent
cure, knew about it, and they thought he was credible enough of a
witness to come forward to this hearing. You know, you can't. You
just don't walk up to the hearing, knock on the door and say,
hey, I'd like to come in and say something. These people are vetted.
So once again, you're taking the totality. It's kind of a gestalt.
You're looking at this the sum of the parts instead of the individual parts
themselves. Does that make him a credible witness? You know, talking to
the people that served it with him, you know, in the Air Force,
also served with him, in the International Geospatial Intelligence Agency, worked with
him in Afghanistan, I'll say that he was a very very astute, professional
member of the intelligence community. So why would this dude go off the rails,
especially with something that such a lightning rod topic as a extraterrestrial biological material
and pieces and parts of potential craft. You know, I just have to
ask myself, and I put on my analyst hat and say, Okay,
why, What's what's the reason? You know, what's the outcome? You
know what's the motivation? You know? And there are coops out there that
do it just for you deal with him a whole lot more than I do
that, just do it because they want to hear themselves. You know.
I was you know, I was a double X commander on Zata Articuli of
the Secret Space Sports. You know. You know President Reagan is not dead.
He's up there with hand the champion Zee from the Mercury Days. Yeah.
Man, I met brocko'bao on the moon. We had a top secret
missing and then I was adri Grass back twenty years at the very points that
I was taking. Didn't even know about it until now, you know,
I was. I was getting apped, you know, in New York and
taken to an eight level subtranean base. You know, under the Montak you
know, peninsula. Never mind the fact that the water table on that peninsula
is a whole lot higher than eight levels underground. So you know, yeah,
it's so, you know what, what's his reason for? This is
the problem? Though? He almost looks like those kinds of people though whenever
he says these kinds of things and doesn't have any evidence or proof to back
it up. Right, he's he's almost in the exact same camp as these
Secret Space Program super Soldier whistleblowers, right that that are experts on UFO.
Apparently this is the only community that you can all of a sudden just be
an expert on with absolutely no condentials, Right, I can I can just
say that I'm a expert on UFOs and then all of a sudden, I'm
an expert on UFOs, just like the Secret Space Program and the Super Soldier
whistleblowers. A self proclaimed that they were whistle blowing about advanced technology when a
lot of it's made up bullcrap nonsense, right, really quick, condog,
thanks so much for the ten dollars, super sticker. Brother, appreciate your
lot for your kindness of generosity and support of the show. Brother, Thanks
so much. But that's almost what he seems like, right, he's almost
he's teetering on that camp of what I could do nonsense and non why I
could do nonsense. Well, I think he's like, you know, old
Missus Peters that lives in the neighborhood, you know, and she sits on
the end of the street with her binoculars, and she called the cops and
says, you know, I don't know if they're drug dealing going on at
the house down the street, but this is what I saw. You might
want to look into it. I think he's missus years. I think he
saw something that might be kind of stinky and says, hey, you know,
Office of the Inspector General, Congress, you might want to look into
this. I wasn't right into that program, so I don't have any direct
official knowledge. This is what I heard, and it makes me think that
maybe it doesn't have proper oversight. So I think he's getting I think he's
getting Congress and the ICO I g to do his dirty work for him,
to do his leg work for him, while providing him with a degree of
pausible to an eyebility and cock cover. But does that that brings into the
whole question of what a whistle blower actually is. And you would know this
better than I would, because you're not You're not a whistle blower anything,
but you're you. You've worked for the deality and you've worked for Army intelligence,
and you would know what a whistle blower is. To me, a
whistle blower, just me personally, has to have some sort of evidence to
be classified as a whistle blower. Can you be a whistle blower by just
having testimonial classified? Because that's what he says in the congressional hearing, is
that he heard this from classified testimony, right, Yeah, yeah, I
think so. And like I said, because we would have, you know,
the whistleblower hotline to the Intelligence Community OIG in these facilities and what they're
focusing on fraud, waste, and abuse. Okay, if you're defrauding the
government, if you're wasting money, or if you're using the program or the
way the programs are set up, you can call this number to the o
I G. And then of course there's another side of it that you've called
directly to a counter intelligence if you think this information is being improperly or legally
disclosed. So you know, he catches wind of a potential program that's being
operated without proper congressional oversight. He calls the OIG and he says, hey,
I heard about a program. You know, even though I'm not read
into it that might be run outside of proper protections and criteria for a wave
SAP, you might want to look into it. Now that he's disclosed that,
and he's disclosed that he was on the periphery of this information, He's
given certain legal protections against reprisal, demotion, things like that, and you
know, I just think it's kind of odd that he comes out with this
as a whistleblower. You know. Now they were really quick to release some
of his medical information. I know when I would handle that kind of information
for people it wasn't violent. I couldn't discuss that with their neighbor. I
couldn't discuss that with their coworkers. I could discuss it with their direct supervisor,
my staff and Themander and also the Dispense Counter Intelligence and Security Agency,
the central adjudication facility of the CAT that actually does the adjudication of this.
And that's all. So, you know, is it a is it an
effort to discredit the man, I don't know. I just find the timing
on. Well, I don't know how much discrediting you would really need to
do if he had proof and evidence for his clean Yeah, yeah, he
wouldn't. He never he never said he was read into the program. What's
going to be interesting is getting somebody that was read into the program that is
willing to violate their nondisclosure group and to say, yes, you know I
was there. And I'll give you an example. Let's say I worked on
a program that was working on and folks, I'm not saying I was.
I'm using this as an example. But let's say non traditional propulsion methods that
we're not air breathing like a jet, we're not inertia, you know,
like a satellite. They were novel proposed propulsion technologies. Now, if I
said I worked on that program, how am I going to prove it?
You know, unless it's ever declassified and they say, okay, here's a
list of all the personnel that worked on this program, and there's my name.
I mean some of the stuff that I worked with years ago, you
know early, you know, when the Army I can't prove I've worked with
it. I mean, you can see that I was actually a branch qualified
Army intelligence officer. He usually you know, work with certain stuff. But
I have no proof of it be a Some of this stuff is still classified.
So until you know whoever is the the program security officer for this program,
if it does exist, this this extracrystial program, if and when he
or she ever decides that it needs to be de established and goes to the
Deputy under secret Theory of Defense, I think it's Deputy under sect of Sensor
Acquisition. I think the one that does that, I'd have to go back
and read the right and convinces them to decertify and declassic certify and de established
a SAT program and then declassify all the way up to the public police level.
We're never going to have evidence. I mean, do we have evidence
that stealth aircraft are actually stealthy? Well, I guess you would see.
I guess you can prove it in the form of if it actually happened,
or if it was ever you know, reported on, or if people have
seen it in the public right, you would be able to use that as
evidence. Let's say that a special access program that you know was ran within
the government was used to take away the potency of a crime lord or a
drug ging or a cartel's potency of their hobby plants. Right, and that
started global. Then you would see the evidence of it because it actually happened.
I'll give you something something that I actually on a periphery of something is
I don't know if anybody's ever read the book Killing Killing Papa, for Killing
Pablo Escobar is excellent. Book kind of gives a peek on how specialized intelligence
and special operations, especially with special Operations Forces Attachment Delta Delta Force operates back
then. And I knew a dude or Noah, dude that was a Delta
Force god and he said, and there is some corroboration, is that the
people that pulled the trigger on Pablo Escobar were actually Delta Force operators. Okay,
actually they were the guys that were supporting the Colombian military is what they
called the Search Block, and that you had a US Army asset through the
intelligence support activity that was doing signals intelligence, collecting cell phone data tied to
Pablo Escobar. And it was actually Delta Dudes operators that pulled the trigger.
And I've heard that from several corroborating sources in that in that world. Now,
can I prove that? No, I can't prove that. Even if
one of the dudes came forward and say, yep, I was a dude
that pulled the trigger on Pablo Escobar, They're never going to declassify that operation
because what it does is that it would compromise methodologies and operational methodologies that they
use on kind of operations. And it might also compromise the way some intelligence
was collected to make that make that intelligence actionable. So, you know,
here's the thing is what what does it take to prove that the moon landing
was real? I don't not heard it's real. You know, I was
a young child watching the limb land of the moon that I don't know.
We've also been told several times and several times through the community that it was
fake as well. It's just confusion, is just a huge thing of confusion,
right, And so you know, some people, you know, are
not going to believe that, you know, aliens and I hate that term.
I'm just going to call them others because we don't even know if they're
extraterrestrial, they might be interventional. Unless one comes up and fight too on
the butt, and what's it going to take? You know, I know
ghosts are real, I've encountered them. But until you've encountered one of yourself,
you know, how do you know? You know you have? What
does take a defense? You? Ah? You know It's like people say,
some of the stuff that you said on your own research is a bunch
of boulder dash. Well, I mean, I've got a stack of affidavits,
I've got filmed of different events I believe it or not. The thing
that really gets me, tray, is that normally when people are talking about
something real, like if they're talking about if they have some sort of classified
information, right, if they have some sort of classified document, or they're
aware of a special access program or something that's top secret within the military or
within the government, they suffer some sort of repercussions for doing that. They
get prosecuted. Right. Doctor Morehouse from the Stargate project, he wrote the
book Psychic Warrior before the program was declassified, and he got into a lot
of trouble. He was prosecuted, right, Right, So that should be
a flag to see if people are actually have real classified information or not.
Depends on if they are actually getting into trouble legally for revealing classified information.
Well, see, that's where it gets a little weird is if you are
not read into that program, if you're not read into Rampant Orange and you
hear people talking about Rampant Orange and you release the information on that, I
can't come after you. You've got to sign a non disclosure agreement. You
have not violated law. It's only the people that have signed the non disclosure
statements that they can go after. Now there, you can't get in trouble
if the information is released and your approached by the appropriate government governmental entity and
say the information you have is classified, and then there's something called an inadvertent
disclosure agreement, and that's something that is and I've had to deal with these
before. Somebody figure something out and they release that information for a person is
myself, and some agents would go to them and say, Blips, you
figured out that you know Rampant Orange is a hypersonic missile program. You're not
supposed to know that. We need you to sign here saying that you will
never talk about it again. And everybody goes home happy. But in doing
that, in approaching an individual with this intent, inadvertent disclosure statement is I'm
actually saying, yes, there really is something to this, and you know
about it. Another tack is to not even mention it, is to not
say anything about it now to draw attention to it. And there are ways
to I'm not going to call them disinformation programs, that they are ways to
take disclosures of information from these special access programs and have verdict. You know,
well, you didn't really see a hypersonic missile test. It was you
know, a B fifty two contract or you know those trucks you saw,
you know that had the yaggy antin on top of it. That wasn't really
a classified military electronic intelligence truck. That was a bunch of hand radio operators.
That's what the media does all the time. They do classic tactic.
Yeah, so, you know, and they do it to protect national security.
I you know, I don't think all of these efforts to protect this
information necessarily malicious. I think you have just a bunch of guys at Galas
trying to do their best to keep the little certain things. Honda brings up
a good point and seeing that it's so obvious that our government would waste tax
dollars listening to secondhand testimony. I mean, and he's right. I mean,
that's a really good point, Honda. Why would they waste money listening
to someone that got all of his information from other people they were telling them
stories Unless you're correct and seeing that because of those people, if you're right
and seeing what you're saying, trade, then those people that actually are were
a part of these kinds of programs are never going to come forward. And
that's where it gets interesting. And if you listen to him saying, he
said there are certain things that I will say that I am not going to
say in an unclassified format or arena. So we don't know what he's told
Congress behind closed door, inside of a their own sap apter SKIP. And
we don't know who's corroborated this testimony in his allegations on the high side,
on the classified side, So we don't know what's going on behind the curtain.
It could be there's your fifty guys and gals out there they're saying,
yes, I will corroborate everything we said, but in our corroboration, we're
pleasant classified information, so that can't be made public that that corroboration even exists.
It's frustrating, isn't it. Well, from a lot of the congressmen
and women that were part of the congressional hearing, a lot of them were
denied from the skiff and and the people that were a part of the skiff,
and this is documented. This is from statements from them saying that he
basically had nothing and that what they told, what he told them in the
skiff was basically nothing. He didn't reveal anything more in the skiff that he
revealed in the congressional testimony. Yeah, I hadn't read that he actually he
actually revealed more in that News Nation interview that was not in front of Congress
than he did in the congressional testimony. And like, why would he not
at least talk about the things that he previously talked about in a News Nation
interview in Australia in the congressional testimony. I see, there's so many things
that really aren't adding up. And it might be similar to like what you're
saying, but from an outsider perspective, he looks like he has nothing nothing,
there's no evidence. No. Yeah, it's a huge nothing burger.
Yeah, and you know, only time will tell you know where this goes?
If it generates, uh, you know, some inertia in Congress to
you know, dig into this, and who knows. When Congress pulls back
the layer of the onion, they looked down it and they say, whoa,
we can't ever disclose this stuff, and we're no better off when we
were last year. So it's a very very interesting time to be alive as
far as you know, disclosure on this stuff. But it's also equally as
frustrating. Firefly says that he got paid for the news Nitian interview. I'm
not sure about that. He might have, but I do know that he
had a documentary lined up before he ever testified in front of Congress, before
he even became a whistle blower, which is another thing that's really suspect about
this, you know, Yeah, the money aspect of this and being in
the spotlight and having this information, that's just I mean, I've interviewed several
people, Trey, I've interviewed a lot of people on my show. Can
I take all of those testimonies and take them to Congress and tell them about
what I know from all the people that I've talked to as well, and
it be taken seriously and it's kind of like it's a weird thing. Yeah,
really a weird thing it is. And you know, I guess it
Basically, what it comes down to is what do you personally believe? And
even more important, what do you want for? You know, like that,
you know, the poster over my shoulder here from the X files.
I want to believe what you know what you know, what your belief system?
And you know, I like to think that maybe it was an honest
effort at forcing disclosure. The way he's gone about it makes sense to me,
you know, from my professional background, the way he's using the IG
to do the legwork, doing a whistle blower for top cover so he can't
be prosecuted or retaliated against. And I guess we'll just have to see how
it shakes out. I've been talking believe it or not. I've gotten other
queries and phone calls from people. You and I discussed an individual well known
in the UP arena that it was was saying, how does this work?
How do these special access programs work? You know, how does how does
this system protect itself? And what do you think this means? And you
know it passes the sniff test? If I was going to disclose something like
this that I caught window. That's the way I would go about it,
now, you know. Or it could be a bunch of bullshit. I
don't know. I guess we'll just have to wait to find out. Joshua
made a good point here a Sage and Snowdon were legit grushing not so much.
Yeah, and that's another example of two whistleblowers that had classified information.
Yeah. And the difference on that, especially in Snowdon, is he was
actually read into this this SCI the Special Department of a program and had access
to something called jay wigs, which is a top secret SCI computer system,
and he downloaded all the on echelon and all that stuff. He downloaded it
and took it with him or I'm trying to remember. I think he fought
it to assage and carry know how that worked out. But he actually had
you know, the smoking gun, you know, in his hand and was
able to pass it on to somebody else. H mcgroush never said he had
the smoking guy, he said, he's never said he saw the smoking guy.
He said he smelled some of the gunpowder, you know, but he's
never actually seen it. Yeah, Which those two kisses are are very interesting.
I don't know, I kind of had. I honestly liked free Ver
and Ryan Graves testimony during that whole thing much better than I liked grush Is
testimony, right, because they actually seen something. Now, whether what they
seen was an actual extraterrestrial craft or not, because there was a lot of
interesting comments between the congressmen that were you know, they were constantly asking them
is this our craft? Right? Is this some reverse engineer? It is
this our military? You know? But it was interesting the way that it
was set up. It had Grush, which had all these stories right in
the center, and they used Ryan Graves to sort of legitimize Grush and then
favor after Grush, so they sandwished them right in the middle of these two
military officers. Incredible people, I mean, regardless of what they believe.
I believed that they saw something, regardless if it was an extraterrestrial craft or
not. I don't personally believe that it was an extraterrestrial craft. But that's
neither here nor there, right. What they saw is what they said,
you know, they didn't make any hyperbole or conjecture around really what they sold.
They basically said. They were like, hey, Uh, you know,
we aren't aware of any craft that can maneuver like this at the speeds,
which I think is a lie. I think we've had that craft for
a really long time now, whether regardless if they know about it or not,
you know a difference. But you know, they they haven't differed from
their story and they're not just going out there and talking about a bunch of
different stories that they heard from other people talk about, right, And that's
that's that's interesting because I think you hit on something that the personal belief in
mine. I think a lot of things that are being seen and reported are
undisclosed airframes being operated by and some other agents, which yes, that's what
they do, that's their jobs to develop these whiz bangs. You know.
I don't know if you're familiar with Tescent Blue, which was the precursor to
the stepth technology, some of the aircraft they were flying and it hasn't blew
we're insane looking crazy thing, you know, would make no sense, but
they were they were valid, you know. Airframes. The Effluence seventeen was
an operational airframe actual flying missions back in the seventies, but it was done
under the cover at a Tampana for another unit, so it was all done
under a special access program. So yeah, I think a lot of that
is un acknowledged. The airframes. I think some of the stuff, you
know, with the five observables, when you start stacking them on top of
each other, yeah, then it starts to get a little weird. I
think some of the stuff out there is other and that's that's kind of half
the front of this is, you know, trying to determine what you know,
what everything is, and always wondering. It would be an awfully boring
world if we had all the answers. That's what I'm trying to explain to
people too. Well, what would we do if we automatically knew everything all
the time, all the information? You know, it takes the fun out
of all this stuff and you know, talking about it, right, we
wouldn't be talking right now on the show being live in front of you know,
on all these different platforms. If we absolutely knew for without a shadow
of a doubt, no one would be listening either, right, Yeah,
it would be bored. Yeah, Yeah, I just think they they should
have went about it in a different way. And if he was cleared by
the DoD to go out there and talk about everything that he knew about extraterrestrials
and you know, crash retrievals and non biologicals that come along with these crash
retrievals, then he should have done that. What better opportunity are you ever
going to have to come forward with that kind of information then in front of
Congress. Yeah, and they're probably he's probably never going to get it again.
They're probably the congressional congress men are saying that it was such an embarrassment
that they're never going to do it again, at least publicly. Yeah,
you know, so they blew it. They blew it. He blew it,
all of them, They blew it. They had a great opportunity right
then and there to talk about the names of the people, the people that
he got the information from, the names of the special access programs that are
running above congressional oversight, and he didn't do it. So it's like,
I don't know, I don't know what they're gonna do. I think it
really put a a nail in the coffin on this topic for years to come.
They probably won't do this again for a really long time. And well,
it could have been one of those things. I know something I can
tell you, but I can't tell you, So I'm not going to tell
you that I'm you're not telling you. I'm telling you. And so you
know, where we ever get the complete truth? No, of course not,
but you know, maybe we can start getting some indicators and you know,
a brave soul that will come forward and say, hey, you know
I was on the retrieval operation. You know, we launched out of the
ex Air Base and C seventeen into Brazil blah blah blah. And then somebody's
going to go, well, that guy's line, where's the proof? You
know, like I knew one of the I knew one of the crew chiefs
that was on an MC one thirty that flew into the Iranian desert on operation
I think it's Operation Ego Call to retrieve the Iranian hostages. You're remember when
that old operation put the South. You know, he had no way of
proving that he was on that operation except that he was in a unit that
did that kind of stuff, and I believe him. So yeah, I
guess it comes down to your definition of you know, proof and your definition
of evidence and his proof and evidence does not add up in my book.
But what I want to do really quick is talk about some official, non
official special access programs that you may or may not have ever been involved with.
And could you give an example of one of those, because again,
I think it's important to nail home the fact that this theory that's been going
around the community for years and years and years and years that when people here
in the community a special access program, that all of them involve reverse engineering
of extraterrestrial craft or some kind of anti gravity or free energy divide is or
something like that. So could you maybe describe potential special access program that you
may or may not No off, no, just no no. But I'll
tell you this. There are all kinds of special programs being run, and
there's three three flavors of and there's acquisition, operation, and intelligence. Those
are the three types of special access programs. Intelligences, you know, what
you think of is collecting intelligence using technology and collecting intelligence. Acquisition is how
do we build our widgets, how do we make our widgets pastor and stealthier
and be able to withstand buttloads of damage from our adversaries? And then operational
is how do we plan to go in there and pop acap on Osama bin
lad. You know, how do we coordinate with a one six Keith Special
Operations Air Regiment? How do we coordinate with Seal Team six? You know?
Where's where does a SFOD delta fall into this mix? So that's an
operational set and you will have people working literally next to you that are read
into a program that you have no knowledge about. Not saying that. I've
ever had people come up in your years later and say, oh my goodness,
I didn't know that you were even involved at that I was involved with
it for years and your name never came up. But that doesn't mean you
don't necessarily tell people what you know and you don't know. And the person
working next to you might be in the same program but doing a different,
different aspect of right, the compartmentalization of this compartmentalization, Yes, absolutely nobody
has the full picture except up at the program security office level and higher.
King James makes a good point here. Grush has yet to disclose anything that
hasn't already been openly available for decades. Yeah, you're right, King James,
You're you hit the nail on the head there. He hasn't he hasn't
said anything that the community hasn't already talked about or knowing about, or theorized
about, or think that was actually happening. Right, And even with the
special access programs above Congressional oversight that he talks about that are being funded from
overcharging of other special access programs. Katherine Austin Fitz has been talking about that
forever and she was the secretary of the Bush administration. Yeah. Absolutely,
And that's that's what we're gonna have to see, you know that the proof
of the smoking gun. He's going to be you know, as Congress investigates
this, you know, with their with their mechanism, the the Government Accounting
Office does their investigations, what comes out of it. Yeah, that might
not be anytime soon, if ever. So you know, what do you
see if that that little nudge has gotten the ball, Roy and you know,
there might be another soul that comes sport it says yes, yeah,
this is in fact something going on and it needs to be investigated in disclose.
It's also interesting too in that congressional testimony as well, he was talking
about the repercussions of him being a whistleblower, and it turned out that that
was the mental health case and him being taken to a mental health facility for
suicidal tendencies and substance abuse problems. But what he blamed on the government trying
to discredit him, which he tried to get out ahead of the curve on
that one. But if you were trying to get out ahead of the curve,
then you would just put that up front, right. I don't know
I would have just if I was in his shoes and I was you know,
and I had this information or whatever, that I would just and I
had some problems, like I would just get out ahead of it and be
like, hey, listen, this is what happens. So then you don't
have anything for people to come out and be like, yo, you're not
incredible, right put him by him doing it like that, It makes them
look very incredible. Now. One thing that was kind of squirrely for me
when he kind of went off of Jason Bourn saying, oh, you know,
my life is you know, been put at risk and my family's life
has been cut at risk. You know, really, I mean it sounds
like a Chief Spy novel, you know. I mean, they're not going
to offer you, you know what they're gonna do is just never talk about
it. They're gonna move you out of these areas, out of these programs.
You're gonna sit down in front of a counter intelligence agent from your whatever
agency and an FBI agent. They're gonna say, if you talk about this,
you're going to end up like Robert Hanson and spending the rest of your
life in a supermax facility in Florence, Colorado, seeing sunlight for one hour
a day the rest of your life. So shut up, you know,
shut the f up. And I don't know about most people, but that
would be enough of a life changing event for me, and I would go
about my quiet little life and never talked about it again. So you know,
the whole you know, Ninja snipers, you know, trying to take
that just seems kind of silly to me. It is melodramatic as hell.
And I'll say that, yeah, it's over the top. It's a mystical
and uh, for some reason within this community really solidifies what you're saying.
If the government is after you and they're doing things to discredit you, it
really just you know, solidifies your testimony even more. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, when you know, when we slid the inadvertent disclosure statement in front
of that individual explained, you saw abmc uh, you never need to talk
about it again. We know that you know, and now you know that
we know, sign that that you're never going to talk about it again,
and that individual can to be later. And he says, I never want
to meet those people ever again in my life. Don't worry about me ever
saying a word. I will take it to my grade. It's that much
of a life changing event. And I don't think there's any reason to go
all special operations, you know, assassination squads. You know, that just
seems seems silly to me. What do you think about the men in black,
because I think this is really where a lot of this started, with
these government operatives and people claiming to be visited by the men in black when
they would see something weird. What's your thoughts on the minium body. I
think that's two things. Two things are going on. One is people are
especially during the Cold War, you know, and anybody that you know lived
during the Cold War or worked for the government of the military during schol it
was a very tense time, extremely tense. You know, we were continuously
petering on the edge of a full scale confrontation with the Soviet Union. So
I think you're taking very seriously type then. And I think a lot of
the men in black reports were military or other agency counter intelligenceations coming to somebody
and saying you saw something. I'll give you an example. This is my
guess on it is Texburg. Okay. What I think that was is I
believe that was a film recovery pod from a Corona satellite, which was a
spy satellite had used films and it dropped an acorn shaped tone that was retrieved
by aircraft. I think that I'm just guessing, but to me, it
seems like that was a premature objection of that film pod that landed in Txburg.
There's something called an NBA or national defense area that you can have a
security specialist or a military officer coming and say this area is now a national
defense area. We are taking it over. Nobody can lead or come in
anybody that's inside of this area. When I established it will be deepree.
That's called an NDA National Offense area. So I think that's what happened with
that. Now, this whole mythology, you know, evolved around that and
the men in law like I think they saw a national defense, national security
item that was highly sensitive and they were worn in the in the interest of
national security. We need you to be a patriot. Patriot, and I
talked about this, but if you don't want to be a patriot, we'll
put you in prison and make you regret that that you ever lived. And
so I think that's what happened. Now, the other half of it is,
I think there are men in black which are apparitions, and the way
people interpret those, you could be humanoids, you know, wearing dark suits.
It could be you know, you get into the whole John Keel thing
about how our perceptions guide that we see, how we interpret it. So
I think there's actually two phenomena going on. One is a terrestrial explainable ordinary
and the other one is perhaps people encountering things that are not within their field
house or something not within their frame of preference. Yeah, it almost seems
like a operation, because that's what you would do in a operation. Rate
to someone seeing something, you would go out there and ask them to see
what they saw. Absolutely, you would debreefe from, you would sit them
down, you would isolate them from other people. I saw it. What
did you see. You would look at their statement and say, Okay,
did they see enough that's dangerous? You know, did they see information that
would either be damage national security, serious damage or extremely great damage? And
if the answer that as no, no, and no, then they can
go on and talk about whatever. If they do cross that threshold, then
you need to go. You need to administer the invert disclosure statement to say
we saw something, you don't need to talk about it. You're signing this
document, which basically is a non legally binding non disclosure agreement, and if
you talk about it, then we'll prosecute you. And the listener list mentioned
Assage and snow, that's an example of that massage. You know, he
just received the information. That information was so sensitive that I received a notice
to put it out to people under myne know that I was responsible for.
Is if they went to the wiki leaks site on a government computer, I
would come and I would seize that computer because that computer now has classified information
on it, and we would wipe the hard drive and then you would sign
a non just an inadvertent disclosure agree. That's how sensitive the information that will
put up in wikis was. Wow, you were in charge of them well,
you know my office and our information technology Yeah, I know. They
came down from our headquarters that if you access that from a government computer,
we would take the computer. And we've done it plenty of times. As
people would stumble across something, we would take the computers called spillage, and
we would wipe their computer. Now what people do at home, you know,
that's not a government system. You know, we don't have spies watch
more to do at home. But the wikillis think quote so sensitive that we
were warned you could not access that that site from a government computer. Kind
of an old war story is back when I was at the Army Intel School,
the Tom Planty book The Cardinal of the Kremlin had just come out,
and there was some very sensitive stuff in that book that Tom Plinty figured out.
In a skiff special compartment information facility, there's a guy called a special
Security officer, which is kind of the same thing as a staff security officer,
and he's told us, he said, do not bring a copy of
Hardal of the Kribblin into my officers say, but they're talking about such a
such because I will compliscate your book and I will shred it. They just
don't don't even don't even bring it to it. Well, I think the
government just got rid of they said they made a wall or they band TikTok
from all government devices. Yeah, right, yeah, and that's there's a
very good reason TikTok was banned from government devices. I do not have TikTok
for my private device. I do not trust TikTok and anybody listening out there,
that's not bullshit anything that you could on TikTok, any device that has
TikTok on it. Every bit of information on my device goes to the Chinese
Conferentist Party, which I com I tell it separates very fine, verifiable.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely absolutely. Wow. Yeah, I mean it's not
it's not an accident that we just kind of said, well, we hate
TikTok because this sounds silly. No, there's a reason TikTok his band from
certain certain technologies. The resupport. Joshua brought up a questionnaire writer tray any
comment on the Capitol hell UFA incident around nineteen fifty two. I think he's
referring to the Washington flapping nineteen fifty two or the model of la you go
first and now I'll follow you. I'm not that old guys, you know.
I mean, I'm old, but I'm not buddled. No. Yeah,
that is uh, that was really interesting because both of those instruments are
incidents rather were witnessed by multiple people, and it was right in the middle
of the Cold War, you know, like I kind of alluded to earlier.
So the interesting thing is all of the uh the visual casts, any
military accounts of it, records of energetic engagements, i e. Radar stuff
like that, all of that's been buried inside of the Pentagon somewhere. So
you know, it was a Russian invasion of Soviet invasion, was it?
You know, uap UFOs was it? You know our guys, you know
getting picked up, you know that we're doing a test or something. I
really don't know. I would love to get to the bottom of that cause.
But the Battle of la I mean, that's just something that I just
think is so cool, especially you know with the fact that you had,
you know, pieces of anti aircraft artillery exploding the air and leaning down on
cars inside of Los Angeles. You know, that's that's a pretty serious stuff
and I would love to know what you know, what's what's going on with
that, and the same thing with the the UFO incident over the Capital.
Fascinating stuff and it might be one of those things that's been buried so deep,
will never know the truth. Yeah. I find it interesting though,
Washington flap event, because who's president during nineteen fifty two four? I think
so? Huh Well, anyway, whoever was president, I would have to
look it up a game. But whoever was president during nineteen fifty two,
it might have been Eisenhower. We might have won earlier that year. But
they gave a shootdown order for the UFOs over the White House and during the
Washington flap event. So if these were extraterrestrial craft, why in the world
would they risk war with an interplanetary space fleet when they just got out of
World War Two. That's not going to happen. So that to me means
that it was our craft, somebody else, some other, maybe a breakaway
civilization like doctor Joseph Farrell talks about, that was coming to show what they
got to us and flexed their muscles over the White House because they gave a
shootdown order. You're not going to give a shootdown order to something that you
know is an extra terrestrial craft. They had to have known that it was
some sort of man made craft from someplace else or everything was on such a
hair trigger, you know, and we had distant early warning the dow line
set up, so you watch over the horizon that this was a armada of
craft that got in, you know, underneath our detection capabilities. That could
be Soviet that's penetrating, just like we have you know, shoot down orders
over certain areas of the National Capital Region. Now that they crossed a certain
line, it's unidentified shooting down. So I remember this is almost the exact
same thing with the Bottle of La as well. They were shooting at the
craft at the Bottle of La and there's many reports of the bullets being bouncing
off of something ten can or something metal. That doesn't sound extra trust show
to me. It sounds human made. Yeah, perhaps perhaps. And you
always have the you know, the famous photograph of the spotlights, you know,
locking in on multiple spotlights locking on the target, you know, as
the anti aircraft are engaging. So who knows. I think Henry it was
Henry Truman. Henry Truman was president during the time of the Washington flap event.
But I think that eisenhowerd became president later on that that. Yeah,
I'm pretty sure it's Truman. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Harry Truman
succeeded Roosevelt when he passed away and then won his own election. You're right,
yeah, yeah, because I remember researching the event, but I got
so much stuff in my head with a bunch of different dates and the people
to remember that it's hard to remember. All these people got to look it
up sometimes. But yeah, those are really interesting events. But again,
I think that there's a thing that they do after every one of these events.
You just mentioned Ketsburg, and I believe that was in sixty five in
Ketsburg, Pennsylvania. When that happened, they came out and said that they
did not believe that the event had anything to do with extra treastures. They
did the exact same thing after the Washington Flap event Battle of La Roswell.
So it's like, I feel like they're telling you, but they're just letting
the public speculate, and the community has has just gotten so out of control
that they're willing to believe in anything now. I don't know. That's my
personal opinion, you know, And I'm moving to other people's opinion. But
it really seems like that the extraterrestrial narrative and the extraterrestrial hypothesis has been propagated
and pushed out there by us, by the community. Well, the government
has been telling us this entire time that it's not extraterrestrials. Oh, and
I think there's you know, my own personal opinion because I think they are
telling the truth. I don't think it's ex structure terrestrial as we think of
extraterrestrial. That there they plan it, you know, three dimensions, and
they get in their intellectual catiac and they drive over here and they hop out
and you know, se whatever, have a picnic and head back home.
I think it's it's interdimensional. I think that you know, you start getting
down into you know, micro quantom things after dimensional activities, and I think
to take place. I mean that's that's a fact. And I think if
you extrapolate it up into a macro environment, I think that's reasonable too,
you know, but it's perhaps just beyond our understanding that we can't perceive it.
So, you know, is it you know, like I said,
is it eight unidentified flying object? You know, something that you can grab
and put your hands on Maybe not, maybe it's more of a phenomenon.
Yeah, Joshua Cardis said, Eisenhower made a deal with the ETS supposedly after
those incidents. While if you look who look up who propagated those thoughts and
ideas and theories, it was Bill Cooper. And Bill Cooper got a lot
of his information from a fake documentary that came out in nineteen seventy eight called
The Alternative three. So there's your little study on that. Also, Joshua,
you warned about the military industrial complex. Yeah, you did. He
did, and that's what a lot of people, you know, they point
to. And I think that he did that because you knew that they were
they had created these crafts and they were going to disguise them as extraterrestrial crafts.
But that's just my personal thoughts, my personal ideas on the matter.
Do you have any comments on how we're talking about the military industrial complex?
Thanks for your questions, by the way, Joshua, and your comments.
Really appreciate you. Yeah, a couple of things. Number what, it's
straight that you mentioned Agenda three because I was at the bit of synchronicity.
I was actually reading something about Agenda three and the whole agenda three hopes that
it was done on one April, you know by the BBC dust it was
an April fool thing. Yeah, and it's still a popagates to today,
which you know, it was a hope. Even if you look at the
credits of it, it's like, yeah, okay, it's like Maffy Python
credits. They're silly. So anyway, that's interesting because I was just reading
about that they and going back to, you know, Eisenhower, I just
completely lost my trans fault the talking about Eisenhower and the industrial military industrial complex.
I think what he was worried about is the ascendancy of military contractors.
You know, it used to be back in the days that the and you
know, I'm an army guy, so I'll talk about army. The Army
had the Army Ordinance Core, and you had places like Rock Island Arsenal and
Waterfully Arsenal and all of these arsenals that actually built war material. It was
built by the army, and then they started contracting it out because they couldn't
meet the demands for World War Two, so they started farming out the you
know, general motors. I have a an IM one card being made by
the Universal Typewriter Company of all things, you know, in my state.
So they started farming out these war materials to private contractors, and so it
got to be a problem that these contractors who are in the business of making
money, you know, it's you know, that's what they do, that
that can become its own self licking lollypop. And I know when I was
in Afghanistan, you know, you look at the number of military people there,
in government people versus a number of contractors. It eclipses the military forces
we've had there. Just the number of people from Kellogg, Brown and Root
ABR that ran our miss hall. It wasn't army cooks cooking our food,
it was KBR. It wasn't army transportation you had bringing stuff in. They
were contracted aircraft from all kinds of different places. So, you know,
the military industrial complex can become like a multi headed hydro, but you can't
cut off the heads past. And I think that's probably how we were at
today, is uh. You know, I've worked with many defense contractors,
a lot of mercary, patriot, good people, but you know, when
it just becomes its own self licking lollypop and its own ends to a meeting
means to an end, it can become problematic. And you know, unfortunately,
with US sending all the arms over to Ukraine right now, it's easy
pickings right now for the defense contractor to start ramping up the weed developed,
more weapons systems were clinched, the ones that we've extended and sent over the
Ukraine. So it's you know, it's a real dangerous the danger in any
republic when wars come to business. Yeah, And I actually got the date
wrong on the Alternative three documentaries nineteen seventy seven and the book came out in
seventy eight. I said that the documentary came out in seventy eight, but
it came out in seventy seven. I just wanted to make sure that that
was accurate. But there's a lot of interesting things in the Alternative three documentary
and the subsequent book that came out. They marketed the Alternative three material as
real nonfiction material, and it got everyone hooked in, especially in the documentary.
In the book that a lot of people in the United States didn't see
the documentary until way later, which gets it's pretty dang interesting, and I
can see how people could be fool, right, because I'm gonna be covering
this other fake documentary on Saturday with Shane the Ruiner called the Orian Conspiracy.
And this Orian Conspiracy thing is a hum ding or dude. It brings in
everything and it seems pretty dang reel. You know, if I was listening
to this back when it came out in two thousand and eight, I would
probably buy into it. I probably did. Let's actually listen to about in
two thousand and eight. It was very popular on YouTube when YouTube was just
free rein. You can put out whatever you wanted to put out on YouTube.
But the Alternative three material is really interesting because it basically says that a
lot of the missing people in the world are being taken by the military and
the intelligence community and taking to the Moon and taking to Mars to work on
like colonies and all that. And at the end of the documentary, it
has a craft that's landing on Mars and you see this little strange thing that's
popping up its hand, and all of the Secret Space Program people and all
the super soldier people in the community use this material as being accurate and real,
right, And it turns out that that was the miniature of Mars and
the thing that was moving up underground was the director's fingers. It's unbelievable,
and that was taking as reel and all these theories and all these speculations really
forms surrounding that. And then you got the Montauk Project that formed up out
of that, that came out of the Fidel Philadelphia Experiment that was based on
a freaking fictional movie that everyone ripped off. Preston Nichols just ripped off the
Philadelphia Experiment movie that came out, and I believe the let me just find
out when the Philadelphia Experiment movie came out, but he just took that movie
and then created his own more in his own almost word for word, exactly
what happened in the Philadelphia Experiment fictional movie, which was based off of a
book by Believe Berlitz, which was a retelling of a retelling of a retelling
of a decausing operation for the uss everage. You know, it was a
common thing in Norfolk, they did all the time. So yeah, stories
like this can actually you can gain their own momentum. So you know,
kind of like what we talked you started off talking about, is where does
the where does the misconception, the lie in the truth part ways. Yep,
that's exactly right. The Philadelphia Experiment fictional movie came out in nineteen eighty
four, so you know. And then Pressing Nichols built his entire theory around
the Montague ex based on the Philadelphia Experiment fictional movie. I got everyone else
bought into it as well. Okay, this is a good question from Joshua
here again, also any explanation for the rapid advancement and technology in the fifties
and sixties lasers, microwaves, etc. Just human ingenuity or was it given
to us? This is an old, old conspiracy theory that says that the
extraterrestrials gave us this technology and that's how we developed it. Yeah, it's
uh. You know, if you go back and you look at some of
the technology that was being developed in World War Two, and of course in
Germany with an autisy have bundevopp with the Wonder weapons, and some of those
weapons systems were extremely advanced, like television guided missiles, and there was a
from what I understand, there was a device very similar to trans transistors that
the Germans had developed using some of their miniaturization, especially of a radar units
that they could put on the aircraft and guide aircraft to do night fighting and
things like that. And then there was a big effort to establish our early
warning radar systems to detect incoming farmer fleets. The British had worked on one,
the Germans were working on them. So there was a lot of technology
that was being developed. But as this technology matured, it was kept under
a veil of secrecy because it was vital military technology and the various countries did
not want to tip their hands on what capabilities they had because as soon as
you develop a capability, you have to start developing a way to counter that
capability. So it was like capability counter capability, counter counter capability, counter
counter counter capability. And the technology started exploding exponentially. And I remember before
there was the Internet, and I remember when the first dial up happened and
how that just exploded so fast. The technology expands exponentially, not literally,
So that's why I think, you know, it started in the sixties,
and I remember the space race, space technology and how it's developed so quickly.
Yeah, I think so too. I think that that's the way that
it works. It keeps evolving and things get better, and then you know,
we started out with you know, we went from books. I went
from books to radio, radio to television, television to phones, you know,
and then the communication the way that it you know developed. But and
it's also interesting that that's exactly the way that the UFOs developed too, right.
They changed, They change from the very end when people first started seeing
them. They turned from disc to UH to cigar shaped craft to h interdimensional
craft and now you got flying humanoid people and all the stuff, you know,
and it developed along the exact same lines that our technology developed well in
our cultural perceptions of things, which is you know, I keep talking about
John Keel, you know, he and uh you know, some others talked
about that our cultural DNA. You know, the way that we live in
our culture is the way we project are the way we see things. You
know that during the Cold War, you know, these were flying disks,
okay, back in the eighteen hundreds, they were mysterious airships. Let's shape
like a dirigibal, you know. And then now we're into multi dimensional you
know, matrix kind of things for other universes. So you know, we
put our own cultural infront on these things and I think we're doing so,
you know, we create the reality to fit our mold, you know,
our own normality. Parts. Now they put guys see big Foot, researchers
see goes, the apologists, the aliens, perhaps all the same things.
I agree, and I think it has a lot to do with our perception
and our belief in it. It's exactly like what you said, someone sees
big foot, someone goes, tells big twenty other people that they saw a
bigfoot. Then they start seeing bigfoot too, just exactly the way that the
community has evolved as well. Like with Bud Hopkins and his Missing Time.
I know I've mentioned this several times before and he shows people probably getting tired
of me talking about it. But Bud Hopkins created Missing Time and screen memories,
and no one talked about that before his book Missing Time came out,
and then all of a sudden, when his book came out, everyone started
experiencing missing time. And it's an exact same thing with Whitley Strieber as well
his book Communion. No one talked about gray aliens before his book Communion came
out, and then all of a sudden, everyone's seeing gray aliens. Yeah,
yeah, I mean it's it's kind of your wish team. First the
chicken or the eggs. Missing time come out because Budd Hopkins wrote about missing
time or was missing time always there and nobody really had a label for it.
And now there's a label for It's like, oh, path, yeah,
okay, that's what that is. Missing time. We do have a
word for it, you know, neural linguistics. Do we speak something into
reality, you know, by our perception of it? I agree. If
anyone's got any questions, really quick for Trey before I let him go.
It's been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for everyone being here and
being in the chat. And uh, thanks for coming on, Trey.
I really enjoy speaking with your brother. It's been too long. Let's do
it again soon, sooner than later next time. Thanks writer. It's always
an honor of pleasure. And thank you for having me. Yeah. Can
you let people know where they can find you online or purchase your book?
Or are you writing a new book? Yeah, I'm actually I am writing
a new book. Thank you. Yeah, it's like when we're both put
our heads together here Dad Dada will so I'm actually my trap book The Metal
Project Explorations for the South is gonna walk around. You can find out on
Amazon is type in Trey Hudson it'll pop up. You can go to Trayhouse
and dash author. That's my Facebook page. I usually hang out there.
My new book is I haven't come up with a title yet, but it's
going to be broken into three point parts. One is Part one is call
Influences, where I'm investigating similar places of high strangeness in the United States.
So I've done some kind of cool research on that. I'm going to interview
some people that have had some unique experiences. The second part will be called
Explorations, which would be some of our further adventures into the meadow and other
places. The third part, and this is it's probably going to make your
eyes roll back, is I hope to do some hypnotic digression with some of
my team members that have had some remarkable experiences. And also I've been talking
to a remote viewer who's willing to remote views on these experiences. So that
third part would be called Revelation. It should be, uh, if nothing
else, in an entertaining read. So I need to get my publisher off
my back. Thanks so much, brother Josh, Weiss says, Uh,
Crawley draw Green Aliens in the early nineties, it wasn't a streamer, but
yeah, but it wasn't called Gray Aliens back when that was LAMB. Wasn't
Babylon working out here, remember what it was? Thanks Joshua, Thanks,
thanks everyone for being here. I really appreciate your time. I uh to
purchase Tred's books. I link is in the description. I had to recommend
it. Actually have his book downstairs. I didn't have a chance to bring
it up the show it to everyone, but it's a really intriguing book,
and he actually has evidence to back up what he talks about. And hopefully
one of these times I'm gonna get you on here and we're gonna be able
to show that the evidence that that you captured. How did that show?
Did that show work out? Yeah? That Trash and Burn? It's such
a it's such a pickle, you know, Holly Wood and television is such
a fickle world. So right now, I'm I'm not under any kind of
contract, so I'm deciding, you know, how do I want to release
this? And so yeah, a good yeah, let's bring you back on
sometime in the future because I think the footage that you have is very compelling.
Don't know what it is, No one really knows what it is,
but it is definitely very interesting. Please check out his work and I want
to bring it back on and we're gonna share that the footage with him at
the at All because it's really interesting stuff. Yeah, real quick. I'll
be presenting at the Phenomenicon in a Vernal, Utah next week, so I
will be showing some of those videos there, So if anybody's out there,
gets stuff on saying how do you? Thanks so much, Drey, Thanks
everyone in the chat. Please be sure to hit the thumbs up button.
I'll help the channel an algorithm. Sure subscribe at the Balletcon as well for
notifications. I'll be back on Thursday with my series on UFO Doomsday Cults,
Part eight. It'll be on the I Am Cult from the thirties. Stay
well everyone, I'll see you guys next time.