Hi. This is deb post of debs Data Dojo, part of the Calling
All Beings podcast network. Today, I'm happy to speak to Susan Fenston.
Susan is an author, publisher, artist, and a paranormal and UFO enthusiast.
Her book You Have a Soft Voice Susan is her true tale on online
stalking experience. Susan is the creator of unique paintings of extraterrestrials. She recently
graciously donated one of her pieces for the Pause Middle Georgia charity. Welcome Susan.
I'm so happy to see you today. Thank you for a nice to
be here. Thank you for inviting me. Well, I'm thrilled because I
feel like you just have so much going on. You have artistry, and
you're an author, and yeah, you've been really interested in the paranormal for
a long time. So thank you for coming. Happy to be here.
So one thing I noticed today is when DJ promoted this chat, he says
you were a lifelong UFO enthusiast. Is that accurate? Well, life would
be all my life, and it's not all my life, but it's a
lot of it. It just sort of just happened. I think a lot
of people are just in UFOs and it's a natural thing pondering the universe.
We see it in the media, movies, books, sence science fiction.
I loved science fiction when I was in high school. I read a ton
of Ray Bradberry and all that great stuff, and I would just consider myself
an open minded person. And it wasn't until I went to Arizona. I'm
from New York and I'd never really been out of the Tri state area until
I was like twenty two. I went out to Tucson, Arizona for a
month and a half and then drove back across country and went upstate to be
part of an art like an art colony upstate in Chautauqua, New York,
where I was studying and working in a hotel and you know, paying my
way and just like you know, an adventure art adventure. And I remember
when I got out to Tucson, I was talking to somebody who had grown
up there. I hit the first thing I asked, and I wasn't really
obsessed with UFOs, and I just the first thing I thought of was like,
have you ever seen a UFO? I mean, think about this would
be the place Arizona, the desert and she's like, yeah, we we
see things like this all the time. They're not it's not that unusual.
It was like, really, I want to I really hope I get to
see something. And she described this large, enormous, silent, floating thing
that would fly over the city like early in the morning. And I mean
I thought, well, yeah, this this would be the place. But
for all my looking at my start looking at the stars and thinking about it,
nothing ever really actually happened. But it wasn't until I left. I
had a strange dream that this is really what turned out to be my first,
very first UFO painting, or first UFO inspired painting. I had a
dream that I was taken to this very old place and I was being shown
all this knowledge and information on a screen. This was nineteen eighty five,
It's a pre technology era that we lived in, and there was this sort
of eyeball like sphere that was projecting this light and water and knowledge and all
of this stuff was just like it was like a gift of knowledge, and
it was kind of flowing over me like light like water. It just seemed
like the wisdom of the ages was just being given to me and flowing over
me. So I painted a painting of it right away so that I could
remember, and I wrote about it my diary. So it wasn't until it
was many, many years later that I looked back at that and I thought,
what does what did that all of that really mean? Because I put
it down for a reason, you know, and I've made that painting a
reason to remember it. And I remember writing in my diary like, I'm
writing this down because I have to come back and think about this some more.
It just seems so urgent. But then, like all dreams, when
you wake up, they just kind of evaporate and they go away and go
on with your day, and more thoughts come and go, and you're just
swimming through this ocean of thoughts and some get left behind and some for ahead.
But when I went back and read my diary, like twenty thirty years
later, there was things that I'd forgotten that I wrote about in this experience.
And joining UFO Twitter was a way for me to, you know,
reconnect the dots where I'd kind of left off, because you know, my
whole UFO education was really done on my own, through reading books and writing
letters and getting letters in the mail and getting books in the mail. It
was a very slow, solitary kind of experience. You know, it's not
that it's a subject that attracts a lot of people so normal, like most
people like they're going through this like completely alone, like there's no one to
talk to. You're just there, you know, staring into this this,
this this thing. So it's it's It was until I started listening to like
little bits and pieces of like Grant Cameron talking about download experiences that I was
able to kind of maybe put that into a context because there was this whole
rush to like abduction, Right, Was I abducted? Was I contacted?
You know, the whole Whitley Strieber phenomenon came out and it really just like
lit up the whole world when you you know, tapped into something. So
I never really considered that I was abducted in those ways, and it wasn't
until many many years later, like I said that, I was sort of
thinking about the download experience, and I thought that maybe there is a consciousness
outreach that part of the energy of the Earth and the natural order of the
Earth and all of these invisible forces that are all around us at all times,
like Gamma rays, cosmic rays, and the Earth's magnetism and solar flares,
and I think that there's we're in the middle of this kind of like
four storm of forces. And I thought, well, maybe that's something that
planted an idea in my head. Yeah, okay, go ahead, it
was. I was gonna say that it seems like a lot of people are
talking about something called the collective consciousness, and I feel like, when I
look at all these different pieces of this puzzle, everything has a place,
nothing actually doesn't fit. So when people talk about the collective consciousness, I
feel like that might be a part of where we might be getting some of
these And before I continue, we have a visitor coming in. Hey,
hey, Susan. Happy International Women's Day, Miss Susan Fenston. And Deb
and the I mean I was I was doing. That was a dramatic pause.
In case you didn't recognize that, Susan dramatic pause. She's like,
shut up, just get on with it. Debs data Dojo. Hello,
Okay, I'll be quiet. Now back back to back to the lecture at
hand. Oh yeah, well, I was gonna say, welcome, DJ,
host of Calling All Beings, thank you for joining us. I never
heard Thank you, Debs. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your open
invites to come and join you. I'm sure Susan is feeling love. You
have an amazing show and an inexplicable connection with all beings. Well, we
were just we were just kind of getting into a discussion about how those beings
may be connecting to us. So and actually it connects to a question that
someone had for you, Susan. And I'll go ahead and ask that question
because I feel like you touched on this. It was from Jared. I'm
gonna say Jedi Camper. I'm not sure if that's the great way to say
it. Okay, is there a specific project you've made that you felt you
were most you felt you were most contacting the liminal where ideas were coming to
you. What did it feel like to follow and receive this inspiration from outside
yourself? And I feel like that directly connects to what you were just talking
about with that dream. Yeah, that that experience and that painting and that
dream was nothing like anything else ever in mind, entire artistic experience, journeying,
learning about UFO experiences. It was so profound that the painting doesn't come
anywhere near what it was like. And as I went back to the dream,
I went back to my notes. And this is what I always encourage
people to do. When you have experiences, no matter what they are,
even if they're dreams, write it all down, get a diary, get
it down, because memory is, you know, not always that great,
but the pen and ink is always there. And there were things that I
had forgotten. As soon as I reread them, it was like, oh,
yeah, that's right, I remember this. There was, you know,
a scene where we were in a and my descriptions about rounded glass and
a round room and a woman on a table who I described as an Asian
woman in a totally nude body stocking. I read that like thirty five years
after I wrote it down, and I thought, wow, what does that
mean? You know what was I trying to interpret? I don't think it
literally meant there was an Asian woman wearing a nude onesie body stocking on a
table. Why would somebody even be on a table? So I am not
making any staking claims to what is traditionally thought about and discussed and you know,
argued over what any of this means. But I just want to say
I had a brush with something. And then I became very psychic, and
I started becoming very precognitive, and I had a lot of precognitive dreams,
and and then I had a very explosive poltergeist experience. Not long after that,
I lived in an apartment that was just alive, and I'd never experienced
anything like that before. And you know, I've lived a lot of old
apartments in the city, and you think, well, they must all be
haunted, but they're not. And not all places are the same, and
not all you know, atmospheres are the same. So just like as and
as you go and as you learn and you have experience, as you start
hearing about other people's experiences, and then I started to be amazed to learn
that this was part of a process, like a step that other people have
gone through too. That really blew me away, and that made me feel
really good, like I'm part of a pattern. I'm not a standalone weirdo,
you know, like, yeah, no, you're with other weirdos like
dev myself. Actually I do. Before we get too far away from it,
I just want to point out and I think Deb and you Susan are
aware this is a topic. Nathan is really fascinated with is this how should
I say it? Ufo inspired informed art And I know if he was here
right now, he would be have his shovel out, his spade shovel,
and he'd be digging down on that, on the inspiration, this cross section
between art and the phenomenon. So I'm so glad that you share that because
when he hears it, he's going to be pretty happy about that. So
so sorry, it's okay. I wanted to share something that I had as
an experience when I was a child. I had a very vivid dream that
you know, I wasn't a very religious person, but I had a dream
that Jesus took me to some water and showed me the fish in the water
and showed me how some of them were not swimming with the school of fish
and informed me that I was going to be different and that I wasn't going
to swim with the school. And the reason I bring this up is because
in recent years I've been meditating quite off and most of those years I spent
inside what I called the cave. But it was a very rigid cave.
It didn't let me do anything to it. It was always the same and
then recently I decided to try to leave the cave, and one of the
first things I saw was that pathway up to the water that I saw as
a kid when I was dreaming. So I'm just wondering if you've tried to
explore any of this in meditation, any of what happened, yes, with
your dream. I don't really know how to meditate, Like, it's not
something I've ever practiced. I've considered what that means, and I don't really
I've never done it. I've never sat and tried to tried to do that.
I just I'm always just kind of like thinking, like my mind is
like a machine. It just like never stopped. So I don't know that
I can actually completely sit down and c my mind. Maybe I should try
it, but no, I never have. I just connect all of this
in with just what is just a natural part of like everything that's accessible to
me, all the natural order of things that are accessible to me, Like
my ghost experiences. You know, I don't think of them as horrifying or
it's just like to me, they're just way more interesting, and it's just
that getting past the veil, you know, Wow, there's there's something there
there's absolutely something there, and it is communicating with us. And I think
maybe if you're if you're good at meditation and you're and you're good at channeling
that, and if you are able to communicate out to that, I think
that could be really valuable. I've never tried it, but I know because
I've seen and heard. I have a question for each of you. Ready
to go for it each? Okay? So first Deb's point because it came
first, and then Susan's point. So you said that relative to the cave,
you said I was never able to change it, and that struck a
chord with me because I'm thinking, oh, I didn't know that in these
dreams that you can shape them. So apparently you have in your mind or
had in your mind at that and actually because you still have these dreams,
but that you should have been a you wanted to be able to or thought
you could manipulate the cave. Okay, So to be clear, my meditation
is awake. I'm awake when I'm doing it, right, Yeah, it's
it's so. And also I wanted to add that to what you said,
Susan. Meditation doesn't have to be about empty in your mind and what I
did was I used this cave to try to have a visual of a place
to go to just calm down, right, But it kind of created itself
very quickly. It was already there, basically, and I wasn't able to
do anything to it. DJ. It was already everything was already in a
place and well in fact, but you thought you could, which is interesting
because you mentioned it, and I just find that I found that intriguing.
Yes, I've I've thought that it would be what I imagined, and actually
I've made an effort to imagine another place and I failed at it completely.
Again. Yes, I tried to imagine like a white palace with Asian furniture
everywhere, because that's what I would have thought would have been a cool place
to go sit in, right, Because I love Asian art, yes,
which is why I also really love that you use the ink, because I
love Asian art. But Anio, so I'm going to ask also if you
use rice paper, but I'll get into that lead. I have a Susan
question too, from her last point. Susan, what you were talking about
earlier about the ghosts, do you find in that since you've been studying the
phenomenon for so long? Are you find or did you find a connection when
you were with that? The ghosts for our spirits, I'm not sure what
we want to call them and what we would consider other intelligences. This to
me, the two specific experiences were very different, totally different places, decades
apart. I don't have a pattern of finding this wherever I go. It
just seemed to be rooted to where it was. These things were just very
human. They were part of us, They were part of what comes after.
That's the impression I got. The first one was a very noisy poltergeist
in my Brooklyn apartment where I lived for like about six months. Like you
know, back then, rent was cheap. You could move around a lot.
I mean, you pick up the village boys, Oh there's an apartment
down the street, or oh there's You could just move around. It was
a totally different city, It was a totally different world and time. There
were a lot more freedom, So moving around a lot was pretty common.
And you know, you didn't like your roommate, you were like, I'm
out of here, you know, I'm gonna go get a new place and
find this apartment. Everything seemed fine, and then I started hearing footsteps walking
through the apartment, and of course you know the logistics of it. I
was in a corner apartment. I'm on the top floor, there's no one
above me. I can't hear the footsteps below me. This was clearly coming
from inside the apartment. And that went on for quite a while, and
I was telling my friends. People weren't believing me, but they'd want to
come over and hang out and see they would. They'd come over like we
I'd make tea. I'd make some really really strong Scottish black tea, and
we would sit in this apartment in this drug infested neighborhood with the fire house
right around the corner, and the motorcycles going around the block and the prostitutes.
And we're sitting in my little haunted apartment drinking tea until four o'clock in
the morning, waiting for something to happen. And it would never happen like
that. But anyway, long story short, I did have a witness to
one of the most dramatic events. And it was my boyfriend at the time.
Came to stay over, and he wasn't believing me either at all.
We would like lie down and we were about to go to sleep, and
we both heard at the same time from the other room in the apartment,
heavy chains rattling like you can imagine like giant ships chains. And after these
chains were just rattling like this long, agonizing moan just fill the entire apartment,
and he just like shut up. We both shot up and we looked
at each other like like what seemed to be an eternity. Our eyes were
just looking at each other like what was that? And He's like, I'm
gonna go see what it is, and I was like, don't. I
don't want any visual confirmation like hearing it was when enough, I mean,
but it wasn't the kind of thing where you like run from the house screaming.
To me, it was just like plumbing the depths of like the most
interesting stuff that there is in the world, okay, is what we're dealing
with the unknown. And some of this is not always good for you for
your mental health after a while, because you're like, what is that what
I'm hearing? And I'm hearing things? Am I going crazy? And it
does start to like get in there in not the greatest ways. But I
did have that experience. To me, it was completely human. It was
something left over from some life that was very much attached to that apartment.
Did not follow me, thank god. But there was no hitchhiker effect with
that incident. And the next one was just like a curious mist many many,
many many years ago up in Woodstock and an old family house and people
had died in the house. Family had died in the house. It was
a house had been in the family a long time, and it were dead
asleep in the middle of the night, cold winter, cold, silent,
and I opened my eyes for just a second and there was this heavy,
milky mist just hovering over the bed, like literally like in our faces,
just over us, up against us. That he was dead asleep. Boyfriend's
dead asleep. I'm so tired that I just opened my eyes. I looked
at it, and I thought, like, well, I can't deal with
this right now. That was my reaction. I just went, what am
I going to do? I don't want to like, oh what I like
deb telling them to stay out of my house. Yeah, I don't know.
I definitely can relate to just being like that right now. It was
like to me, it's part of the natural world, is like but that,
But do you think there's a connection with the phenomenon. That was my
original question. Yes, okay, no, I think it's a I have
a different theory on it. I'm gonna chime in on that. I think
it's not so much a connection as in the ghosts and the aliens are the
same or whatever. But I think it's a connection of our ability to perceive,
our ability to pick up on these things. We're picking up on that,
and we're starting to pick up more and more on other phenomenon which we
could say, is, you know, interdimensional, we could say it's extraterrestrial.
We still don't really know. We only have hope of what it could
be. Right, So I feel like it's more about our ability to tune
in, and I think that that's something that's increasing over time and maybe something
we used to have all the time, because it sounds like we had a
lot more contact back in the day and then now it's perhaps coming back.
I think we are receptors at our brains are processors, and we're just processing.
What is I mean, where is the mind? Where is conscious?
I don't know. I don't have to answer. Is a great question.
I loved thinking about this stuff. I just don't know. I think that
being open, awake receptor of looking at things, always open to things,
always you're going to come across a lot of things, because there are a
lot of things to come across. And I think that there's tears and levels,
and there's underworld and there's outer world, and I think that they're all
different, like you know, the way all the creatures of our world inhabit
are our world, the monkeys and the whales, and everybody's all different,
but we're all connected. So I think that's kind of the way it is.
But there's something about the UFO phenomenon that you know, is just extra
right. It's that this is extra interesting. Human beings are interesting, but
when you're talking about intelligences that are we've heard, we've read the books,
we're in it up to our eyes, you know. I mean, I've
never seen a flying saucer, but I will tell you they are real.
And all of this is real, and we are just struggling to deal with
this thing that's just impressing into our reality and out and has far more reach
than we do. And I've heard people describe things that they'd seen that have
materialize and de materialize. Is that that reality seemed stronger than this one,
which is sort of interesting, like, wow, there's a real power to
that. You know, when they can bridge into our world. You know,
they're not exactly sitting down and having tea with us, you know,
like Alice in Wonderland, They're I just don't know. I mean, you
hear the negative stories, you hear the positive stories. And I think all
of us, in our hearts, in our minds, we kind of gravitate
to what satisfies us the most. Some people want to be afraid, some
people just want to feel love. And then there's that contradiction of all this
love talk from these cold and motionless beings. What are they talking about when
they're talking about love? You know, what does it praying mantis know about
love? And are all these other creatures. So I'm just saying like we
are just at the very beginning, and I think all of us are part
of the part of that new era of what is coming. You know,
this is the groundwork, you know, all the ones, you know,
all the peeps that came before us, you know, all the homies that
aren't going to see the day. We may not see the day, but
it's it's coming. Something is real. It's absolutely real, and uh,
I want to see it. I want to see I think we will.
I think we will. I think you know, I know we keep hearing
the government's locking down on us, but I think that there it's unavoidable.
I think it's so pervasive. So many more people are paying attention just the
act of looking up at the sky alone. It's like more people are looking
up and paying attention. Now they're going, oh, today, today,
I too will get to see something. Yeah. Think about all of those
military guys out on those planes in the Navy that have said that we see
those every day. We see them every week, We watch them for wee
years, we watch them. I want to be on that boat, I
really I want, don't you I want to. I want to. But
it's amazing how yes, I know that doesn't like break out from there.
This is such a tremendous event, right, And yeah, I want to
say I'm going to say no to being on the boat because I think that
those particular objects are getting a little too close or attracted to the nuclear stuff,
and they're getting a little close, and they are dangerous for us.
I would much prefer to, you know, have just something land because when
it's off, apparently it's not dangerous. And then I'll go up and talk
That's what I wanted to. Hey, can you guys shut it down and
then I'll approach thank you. Yeah. But but but I hear so many
stories about like people should not be going over and trying to touch these things
while they're in motion, and that's just kind of common sense. It's sort
of like going in front of a train. But but I would I would
like them. Yes, that's terrible. Oh what a mistake. You know.
But you know, I think we will get with the upcoming report in
October. I think we're going to get more information about that what's going on
with the military, for sure. I think we're going to get little bit
trips and drabs. I mean, are they really gonna sit down and here's
the men, you guys, here's the beings, here's here's where they're from,
here's what they want, here's what you're gonna do. I don't think
it's gonna I just don't think it's gonna be like that. I just don't
know. I think that there's so much more at play than that, and
it really goes far beyond what our military wants and the power of our countries
want and all the desire for weapons and flying carpets and everybody. You know,
I don't know. I'm not really not interested in the machinery at all.
I want to know who they are and what are they about. I
want to know their history. I want them to tell us our history.
But is that really gonna happen? I don't know, but I'll tell you
what. It keeps you sharp. I mean, this thing gets into your
mind and it just keeps you, keeps you gripped. I mean, I
can't believe there are people who aren't interested in it. Yeah, I think
that When you were talking about your dream, it made me think of doctor
Persolka from American Cosmic talking about you know, kind of like the calling right,
and it's like a a switch is flipped right, And a lot of
people experience that. And everyone tells me about something that pulls them in,
and it's different for everybody. It sounds like your dream was part of you
being pulled in. Oddly enough, I was interested in a lot of other
paranormal stuff, but wasn't really as into UFOs because to me, it was
just like that's natural. Also, it's just what it is. In fact,
sometimes I'm a lie. Sometimes it's hard to be enthusiastic, and I'm
like, why are we bending over backwards about something that's just the equivalent of
whales? You know, Like it's because it's the same. It's so natural
to me, right, But yeah, everyone everyone, Some people have sightings
that that pulls them in. I feel like that's what happens. The switch
is just flipped. Speaking of switches, I was talking to somebody just a
couple of weeks ago or so about we're not we don't know each other through
UFOs or about UFOs. It's a producer who's working on developing a podcast for
my book, and she took a look at my Twitter account and she's read
my book twenty times. She and I have been very much enmissed and talking
about this project, and this was an aspect of myself that she didn't know
about. And she's like, well, you're really interested in UFOs and I
was like yeah. And I asked her, I said, have you ever
seen one? She's like yeah. I was like, WHOA, how come
I didn't have that experience? She said that where was this? I forget
where it was either California. It was somewhere on the West coast and she
and her brother were out playing somewhere and all of a sudden they looked up
and there was a disc, she said, a metal flying saucer disc,
just there, out of nowhere. And then it was there for a while
and then it just it just disappeared. And when she looked back, she
wanted to look away, but because she was afraid, she wanted to look
away, but she didn't want to because she said, if she looked back
and it wasn't there, so she didn't want to take her eyes off of
it. And that's why everyone's like, why did you take a picture,
because like people don't want to take their eyes away because so enrapturing. And
she as soon as she turned away and look at her brother and she looked
back again, it was gone. And she said, the funniest thing about
that was that it was just so amazing, and she and her brother never
talked about it again. Now when people say that, it's like I hear
that a lot. You know, Yeah, it was just this overwhelming,
like almost spiritual moment, like shapers creepers, and then you don't talk about
it again, Like, yeah, they don't, and it's consistent throughout a
lot of accounts like why yeah, And I actually spoke to a therapist about
that recently. It's almost like they almost don't remember. It's almost like they're
in a fog or something afterwards. And then a Q is what some people
call it. I think Preston Denitt called it. A Q triggers it.
And the guy, he's an actor, I just spoke about him. He
was talking about he saw the Phoenix lights. He reported the Phoenix lights for
Russell, Thank you, Thank you DJ and he didn't remember it for like
two years he had done it, he reported it, he didn't remember it,
and then something on the news popped up and he goes, oh,
that's what I saw, And then he's like, why didn't I remember that
for like years? H Yeah. Kurt's a pilot, so he was flying
at that time. I think he must have landed. It's some airfield in
Phoenix. Also heard a narrative about that one where I don't know if they
were F sixteen pilots from Luke Air Force Base that took off either F sixteen
or F fifteen. I know Luke to have F sixteen's but in any case,
they took off, and some of the crew chiefs that caught those airplanes
when they landed and parked said they looked, you know, like, I
hate to use this white as a ghost because we were just talking about the
connection between ghosts and the phenomenon, but yeah, but said that they looked
rather startled and unusual exiting the aircraft. Yes, since you were saying,
Susan that you're kind of you kind of went through the process of maybe I
was abducted. You might be in the same place as me, just kind
of waiting for that queue, waiting for which queue is going to unlock something
else. Yeah, you know, I mean there, I guess it's like
a rorjack in some ways. I mean, sometimes something is so big and
so vast you can almost just kind of hook something into it somewhere along the
way and say, yeah, I had a similar experience to that, And
maybe that meets up with what my expectations are, what this phenomenon is.
You know, I had massive nose bleeds when I was a kid, like
inexplicable, and this is something I've read about, like that that nose bleedes
and children and like, and the phenomenon is like closely linked. And I
thought, how would that happen? Because I'm from Manhattan, right, And
I thought, flying saucers just don't land in Spanish Harlem on my roof and
come down into my apartment where my second grade little body is lying in bed
with a massive nosebleed. Like I just couldn't like connect that. But you
know what, Susan, they might land in Spanish Harlem. You want to
get take out from rails, you know, if you want to get take
out from rails, you gotta go to Spanish Harlem. If they want the
phenomenon knows this, they know this. That's the reason to come to Earth
and to stay for a while. Absolutely, So look, I guess I
just don't know, and I think I'm open to any possibility. Are they
just putting us on like an on a blast? Is there some sort of
like emp pulse that goes out through consciousness that takes in like a net certain
lights in our humanity, certain people, certain souls that are open and receptive.
Do they pulse and if somebody responds, I mean, it's becomes a
personal experience for the experiencer. Or is it something far more dramatic like beings?
At your bed, floating you out of a window, taking you into
you know that I I would just be so overwhelmed. I think that would
just be so overwhelming to reality to think about that, that that tipe of
situation. Meanwhile, Dev's is like, I hope it happens before bedtime because
if I can squeeze this in before it, well, I will say once
I started just embracing all of this and like it, it was, you
know, it's kind of weird, and I'm like more open about this on
now. A lot of people have heard me say this. I I'd seen
a UAP, right, I've seen one, but it just again, it
was so normal to me. And I've spoken to someone who said that that
probably means you've seen them before. That just wasn't weird to me. There's
other things that happened in my childhood that are really strange that could line up.
And so maybe, like I said, I'm waiting for a queue,
but can you describe what you saw? Not clearly? I know that I
did the checklist when I was looking at it. I know that it was
not a typical flying saucer. It wasn't round like that on the bottom.
It was more complicated, and it's the closest shape I've seen is a little
bit like what is what is that craft that you use in the water to
go really fast? It's like a person at the most craft. It's like
a little motorbike almost on the water. What is that called? Yeah,
So it had more of that shape, but much bigger, and it was
you know, no no propellers at all. Was just sitting there, not
moving, not doing anything near an airport. Symmetrical, Yeah, but I
like, but not it had that bump in the front. It was interesting,
like it was like bump like that. You know, I can't listeners.
I'm sorry, I can't do the hand gesture for you. So but
but but it wasn't It wasn't like this bump was in the middle. You
know. I remember just thinking that asymmetrical. Asymmetric. Yeah, but but
but it was it was I think it was more oval. And I can
tell it was white silver, like really bright white with like a silvery metallic
look to it. And I was just sitting there, like I said,
it was there for a while. Was it at night? Was it it
was the day? It was during the day, And the reason I was
looking in the sky is because things fly pretty low in the airport. It's
just a little airport in Maryland, and sometimes things would fly right over the
car, like because I would be driving my clients like every week. Every
week, I would go back and forth, and sometimes things fly right over
overhead. So I look on the sky whenever I go past the airport,
and I caught this just sitting there, and it really wasn't my only experience,
but I guess, you know, like you said, sometimes it could
just be we're just like we catch on to something and then we're kind of
roped in, you know, like there like, oh you noticed us,
We're gonna, we're gonna have some words with you now. I like that
whole pulse thing that I hadn't heard anyone say it quite liked, Susan Dee,
I'd never really thought of it before. I'm just kind of like spitballing
in here as like ideas or trying as I'm trying to explain, you know,
what I think as a possibility, and it's just like a big email
blast like okay, humans, you know, we're gonna we're gonna, you
know, we're gonna enlighten you somewhere. And it's just I can't I can't
imagine going through life without wonder and about without wondering all of this stuff,
you know, like it's just been the greatest asset to my life. And
I had so many difficulties dealing with people. And my interest in UFO is
because like they just laugh at you. You know. I've been called everything
like from medieval to I don't know. It's just like UFOs when they weren't
cool, that's when I'm and that was when I was like really into them,
and everyone was like, why do you think about that, that's so
nineteen seventies. I'm like, no, but it's so interesting. When I
got my first job in publishing in nineteen eighty nine, I worked in the
publicity of Double Day Publishing, Yes, and one of my jaws was dealing
with the author mail and mail would come in. It was a big publishing
house, Double Day Publishing. We got mailed all the time, people writing
to authors, and it just occurred to me, like I didn't know that
you could write to authors. It's like, I didn't know you could do
that. So the first author that I wrote to was John Keel because I
had read The Mothman prophecies. So I thought, well, I'm going to
got the address of his publisher. I wrote him in a handwritten note online
to notebook paper and sent it in. You know the thing about mail,
you know, mac back in those days, you put the mail in the
mailbox, and then you know you have to really wait. You know,
time goes by the mail lens on someone's desk, it sits there and then
it gets shut all over here. He called me on the phone. I
came home. I was having a really lousy day. I checked my answering
machine. It was like, dude, Hi, this is John Keel.
You wrote me a letter. Oh god, he's calling me. John Keill
call like me. I mean, it was like to me at the time,
and I guess even this time too, it would be like like Mick
Jagger calling you, like like the most important person in your world. It's
like calling you on the phone. Anyway, we had I called him back.
We had a long talk on the phone, and he wanted to know
about my ghost experience, and I was like, ghosts. I mean,
who cares about ghosts? Everybody sees ghosts. I want to hear about UFOs,
I want to hear about aliens, and you know, he didn't.
He was like no, he wasn't. Like he didn't call me up to
say, okay, here, Susan, here's the book of truth. I'm
going to read a page two, you know, and here's all the real
deal here. I mean it just that's not the way any of this works.
So we had a great conversation. I joined the New York Fordian Society
and went to meetings every month. And anyway, after my phone conversation with
John Keeo, my phone started getting this beeping sound on it. I was
on other calls with friends. These are old dial up rotary copper wire phone
and I'm talking to a friend and there was this intermittent beep, very lonely,
very far, always sound. It almost sounded like it was coming from
space. I mean it was like beep beep. It was like steady.
And I was saying to my friend do you hear that? He's like,
yeah, what is that? I said, well, ever since I talked
to John Keele on the phone, I've had this beeping on my phone.
And he was so jealous. He was like, you talked to John Keel.
I was like yeah, because I was ahead of the curve Okay,
I was the lone weirdo into the subject, and all my partsy partsy hip
New York City downtown friends were like, oh, that's just so not cool.
Then suddenly they realized UFOs were cool, and then they were like all
over me, like, oh my god, you have to put me in
touch with John Keel, you know. And you know, it was like
things had changed, and I wasn't going to give his phone number out.
There's just no way, I said, if you weren't right to John Keele,
go right ahead, I'm not. I'm never going to give anyone's phone
number out. But anyway, I don't how we got that whole subject.
But it's just been a great journey. It's just been a spectacular, great,
fun, challenging, spooky, amazing, inspiring and still inspiring and it
always will be. You know, you are a receiver, Susan fenced and
clearly both you and this young lady here, both of whom's hair looks outstanding
tonight, and thank you and and maybe you want to mention never mind,
okay, uh, I want to wish you guys a very happy International Women's
Day. It's great to talk to my New York home girls, I'm gonna
leave you in the capable hands of Maryland's own soon to be the neighbor of
one quantum Witch, Priscilla Debstata Dojo, also known as Study of UAPs.
Thank you for letting me barge in on your day. Thank you Green for
the hard chakra. It was good to talk to you today. To Susan,
always love you, guys, Thank you, Thank you. Bye.
Okay, so we're still Oh yeah, we're still gone. So I had
a question. Oh but I've got to ask the rice paper question before.
Do you use rice paper? I have? It's just a regular I'll get
it hold on for for those who are not aware. While she's looking,
she does a lot of the ink painting. Oh yeah, okay, I
have some of those. Okay, I was just serious, just regular old
paper, and here you can see. Why do you say it's because of
your interest in the UFOs that you do extraterrestrials so often, because it seems
like that inspires you a lot. I've never done this type. This is
recent. All of this ink drawing stuff comes from being inspired from UFO twitter.
I'd never really done anything like that before I used. What I used
to do were oil paintings of like old what looked like old CPA Victorian photographs
of sea scapes and landscapes, and then I would just paint in little UFOs
and them and it's all very serious stuff, of course, and a couple
of other odd and and very large paintings. It just sort of happened.
I wasn't I didn't really know to join UFOs and art right away. I
was sort of in an abstract phase and not really knowing what to do with
my art. And my my ex husband was like, I was like,
well, I don't know what to paint. He goes with, just paint
what pin pint what you like, you know, paint what's important to you.
And then it was like, oh, UFO, so that's perfect,
and then I just it was all from there. It was just paintings at
UFOs. But it wasn't. These these drawings really just came from doodling,
from spending a lot of time on ufo Twitter, and they started out kind
of rough and then they just got kind of better and better, and uh,
it was just really reignited my love of art. I hadn't done art
in a long time, so it was nice to have just this flowing,
and it was just flowing and flowing the summer in the fall last year.
I mean I would be doodling and drawing and drawing, and then I would
I wake up the next day and drink coffee and then I'd look at like
five or six like very detailed drawings, and I really didn't I not that
I forgot that I drew them, but it was more like they were just
like gushing, like just gushing out of me. So it's just been really
exciting to be able to do that, thatd be able to make that magic
with the with the with the brush. It's the best thing. Yeah.
So I actually have done some painting, and I feel like I'm almost hesitant
to do paintings on this subject because it might be a little too overwhelming because
I'm already feel like I'm so driven to do something. I'm so driven to
it. Yeah, I I am hesitant. It's so weird. I've I've
done a lot of different types of paintings. I've been told I have a
primitive style, and I've done work with CG. But I feel like if
I if I tap into that, I don't know what place I'll end up.
I feel like I'm already a little overwhelmed with the meditation experiences that I
have and things like that. But some people think that when we do art
we access something similar to that dream that you had, that might be like
a different plane, like you know, I wish I wish Chris was here
because she might be able to talk about the Acotic records and that that other
plane, that that beyond the veil, as you said earlier, and doing
art sometimes kind of unleashes that. Well, the art, I think is
the bridge between the two or multiple worlds. It's the bridge. It's connecting
us with the unseen and the unknown and and and trying to bring it down
into our our carbon and our essence and our molecules, because this is something
that is it's just not it's not really human. It's not human. And
if you really want to get into aliens, I mean, are they from
Earth, they live in the Earth, they live underground. Are they in
a different universe, Are they in a different planet. Are they coming from
time, the past, the future? Nobody knows. So when you're when
you're doing dealing with this subject, I mean, yeah, you could do
like lighthearted stuff. You could do pretty paintings, you can do, and
then sometimes you really just don't have control over what you're doing. It just
kind of it just kind of happens. You know. There's so many good
artists that do great work, and it's all interesting in different styles, and
I think it's a great way to kind of bring these things together and help
understand understand what we're thinking, right, because this is our this is our
gig, you know, this is us trying to deal with with something we
don't really know anything about. And I think we're doing a pretty good job
for the most part, you know, and I think the world is ready
for some some newness, right. I mean, look, we're not going
to come down and stop the war in Ukraine. They're not going to stop
new because they haven't done anything. And I don't really understand why people think
that they're here to save us from ourselves. When has that ever happened.
We have a terrible track record as a creature, And every day I'm just
so sad people, you know, Yeah, I feel like that's not their
job and they know it. And I also get this strong sense that they
value each and every one of their lives, especially you know, considering however
they're existing or traveling or living or whatever is not always like the safest,
right, Like I think they want to They don't want to come here and
then go get shot by somebody or something crazy. Right, So that's the
sense that I get that they're not going to just kind of engage unnecessarily.
There's it's going to be done with caution. But yeah, I understand the
concept that you were talking about about trying to use art to explain it all
so and to because frankly, without art, other people who haven't seen these
things or haven't it had experiences or not gonna get that visual. So it's
it's almost like a message to people like, this is what's possible, this
is what I am seeing. So yeah, maybe one day I'll get to
that point where I can do that. I feel like I'm just a little
because I when I paint, I get into a zone. You know,
I'm sure you know'st great. Yeah, I get into a zone and I'm
like, well, like, well, how long will I be sucked into
that zone? If I do that, You're gonna be sitting there doing it
for so long You're going to forget to make dinner and the sun's going to
go down. And you're going to be hungry and you didn't make any spaghetti,
and you're That's what happened to me. I get so so submerged in
it. And I haven't done. I've taken a little break because I've got
some other stuff I'm working on. But I was just looking at some of
my old drawings. I think, yeah, I'm gonna jump right back into
that. I just I have to be in a really I have to be
in a good mood. And I just think that I'm so sensitive. I'm
kind of responding to what's going on around me and the fact there's a war
going on. Does it make me feel too cheerful or like like It's not
that I'm not optimistic, but I just don't feel like that that effervescence,
like yeah, let's do some RT. I'm just kind of concerned about what's
going on in the world. But that'll change. But I recommend it because
look, art is so important to the phenomenon, because we wouldn't have the
children's drawings from the aerial school, I mean, all of their their their
memories and everything that went down on paper, and every witness whoever scratched anything
out on a Napkin. I mean like artifacts these sort of like so important,
like the Dead Sea scrolls, all of this this stuff, like cave
paintings. Think about how important cave paintings are are and what they tell us
about humanity and what was going on inside of their minds and their their lives,
and how it transcended just the eating and reproducing aspects of life, that
there was a transcendentence going on. And you know, let's not make the
mistake to think that all art is about God. You know, because everything
they find that's prehistoric or paleolithic, a little carving, it's like, oh,
it's a lion God. It's like, well, maybe it was just
a lion. I mean, it doesn't have to be a god, right,
I mean so anthropologists and you know, they rushed to judgment on these
artifacts. So, but these artifacts are incredibly important. That's why I think
art to end the phenomen as relates to the phenomenon is very important. You
know, Bud Hopkins was an artist, as we were talking about on Twitter
earlier. Yeah, it's it's interesting because it also serves their purpose. When
people present those pieces, the viewer has a chance to respond and it's almost
like a test in a way if they respond as if they're afraid, or
if they respond as if they're comforted. You know, it's it's it's really
interesting. It is a little bit like a roar shock, you know.
And I mentioned that because someone showed me a painting of a being that supposedly
spoke to Clifford's Stone. Oh that's a skiren going by, okay mine?
Yeah, Yeah, someone showed a painting that was supposedly a being that had
interacted with Clifford Stone. And when I looked at it, my response was,
it just looks like a person with a different face to me. Other
people when they see images are terrified, like it really freaks them out.
But it really is almost like the what you present. Uh, it's like
a test almost to see how people are going to respond to that. It's
interesting. Yeah, some people are very terrified by their experiences. M it's
natural. I can completely understand it. I just cannot imagine being confronted with
thinking like that. I think that, you know, that's where we have
a lot of confusion because we're getting so many mixed messages and some of these
experiencers change their tune later, like Travis Walton I mentioned him. I've heard
him say, I've changed my mind about what happened to me. I don't
think it was what I thought it was. And you know, some people
initially are like, oh, this is going to be a horrible experience,
and then later they're like, actually, I think they were, you know,
trying to give me this message about world peace and stuff. But ultimately
the bottom line is, you know, I really hope that the contact that
we're all kind of hoping for happens so we could get clarity about what's going
on there, because that is not how you should be interacting with humans.
Like it's just not going well, no, not at all. I mean,
it's it's a funny kind of system when you think about it. I
mean, there's so many theories. You know, what are we? What
are we to them? You know, are they responsible for us? You
know, did they create us? Because there are huge gaps in the fossil
record that don't explain the rise of Homo sapiens that there's a big blank spot.
Now in terms of you know, geology and fossils, there are no
big blank spots. There are layers and stories and stone that tell the stories
of everything from comets hitting the earth to you know, everything else. So
I'm willing to accept that. You know, I'm not so religious that I
can't incorporate something into my world, you know, my perception of the world.
I'm I'm happy to entertain almost any idea. I mean, I've read
just about every book that there is and have taken it all like pretty seriously.
You know, I don't. I don't think everyone's a liar. I
don't think everyone is just trying to make a book. I think that there
are serious people who've had very real experiences and they're doing their best to interpret
and share. And then there's all of the people who probably will never tell
their stories, have never told, will never tell, and and on and
on. And there's there's that gap, right, There's that blank spot in
the record, right. And there's also the whole weird washing phenomenon where someone
has an experience and they tell the story, but they kind of leave out
details so they don't appear completely crazy, you know, they don't. That's
that's common, and I think that partly is lingering stigma, you know.
Really, I mean, I've been telling, like I said, parts of
my story at a time. It's very hard to say it all at once,
because when you say it all at once, that's when you know,
you're like, okay, people are going to think that I'm just crazy or
you know whatever. Like so you're cautious, right, You're cautious about what
you reveal, but you're certainly right that there are people who are holding on
to their stories, people who may not even be a part of any UFO
community. And I've certainly had since I started with all of this, Like
I said, totally out of the blue. Not been related to the UAP
siting I had, which was probably about five years ago, but just totally
out of the blue. Was felt this compulsion to do this. When it
happened, people started telling me those stories privately in messages, so I knew,
I knew, and very few were, you know, brave enough to
come out and share it in a public way. Those people I put their
stories on my web page, the UFO Connector, because I wanted to help
them get the chance to tell people this is what's going on. I don't
I don't like when we ignore experiencers. And I'm yeah, there's just so
many that are not there yet, you know, there's so many that are
but but I think it's getting better. I think the fact that people who
are coming out from significant positions coming out and being honest about what happened with
them is helping. Mhm. It's still slow. It's still baby steps,
you know. And we have a lot of sort of little battles and skirmishes
within the community and with you know, people who are anti experience or whatever
that means, and are averse to WO whatever that means. Because without WO
and experiencers, we don't have anything, right, there isn't anything. And
if it weren't, if it weren't weird and bizarre and just mind blowing,
no one would be interested in it. It would just be like, oh,
it's like studying a new form of algae, you know what I mean.
It's because it is so powerful and because it is the most challenging topic
phenomenon, it will retain. It's it's still got that currency, and it's
it's it's still it's it's more popular now than when I started getting into this,
like back in eighties, because well, that was yeah, that's actually
one of my questions that I had for you tonight. I wanted to know
if you could as an overview reflect on how you ufology if you want to
call it that, or UFO research, or just the UFO community, however
you want to see, it has changed over the decades, because we know,
of course, in the beginning, you know, people were enthusiastic,
they were reporting, and then the government turned around and started telling people that
they were crazy. Everyone got quiet for a while. Then people would still
sneak stories where they could to the media, right like the Inquirer. And
then of course it became like a popular thing for TV shows for a while.
I know that I watched a few unsolved mysteries where UFOs were definitely brought
up. It was a popular thing for Hollywood all those. Interestingly enough,
some of the movies that people saw were actually influenced by people by who came
from Project Blue Book, right so, and they were influenced by apparently the
CIA as well in the military was involved in some scripts like Contact. So
I guess I just wanted to know, like, how how do you see
things having changed? Uh, That's that's a very it's a huge question.
It's become kind of like a like a little bit more sharp elbows. You
know, there's a lot more sparring going on. There's a lot more challenging.
And it's not just because there's you know, little little gnarly little like
spats on Twitter UFO Twitter, But I I think that like because it's like
the more pressure is being applied, the more sort of like intense it sort
of becomes. And people are becoming a little anxious about it, and they're
very suspicious of the government, and they're very critical of the government. And
I'm all, you know, fine, criticize the government. That's what it's
there for. Be suspicious, be suspicious of our government. Our government has
a long track record for reasons to be suspicious of what they're doing. I
don't know. I'm really interested in reading glue Elissando's book when it comes out,
because I think he is He's going to say some things. We know
he can't tell us everything, and boy, I would love to hear,
you know, I'd love to just sit down, like just me and him.
Just just tell me. And I promised Lou, I won't tell a
soul, just tell me what's going on. I'm excited, but I'm also
grounded because I do know the long view, and I do know that there's
many ufologists who have lived and died, you know, like Stanton Friedman,
without ever completely getting across the finish line. What I'm hoping is that for
Stanton and for all of us, is that when we do pass on to
the great beyond, that there will be a pamphlet that God hands out on
the other side, like here's all the questions.'s the answers to all
the questions. I think they priority know they're probably watching. Every time I
add another face to the memorial part of the UFO Connector. It makes me
really sad. Sometimes I want to cry. I don't know, I get
so emotional about it because they're not going to be the ones that are there,
as you said to the at the finish line, and they worked so
hard, some of them worked so hard to get us there. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean we just think about like Bud Hopkins and Whitley Strieber and
you know, Linda Moulton Howe who lately has become very criticized and looking into
that. But I love these people. These people were like my you know,
to my little guiding lights throughout like all those years of just reading and
wanting to know more, and uh, you know, you sort of come
to really depend on them, So I don't know. I don't know what's
going to happen next. I'm very interested. I always will be, and
if I don't learn before I leave this earth, I will at least be
satisfied to say that, you know, I tried. You know well,
I think what is going to happen next is we're going to turn the page
from the story collectors to the science. I really think that's what's we're on
the rge of. And I think that we're getting we're getting told what science
has already existed slowly. Those are what a lot of those drips are about.
We're being told what involvement the government has already had slowly also, But
I feel like the page will be turned. It's going to be less about
things that happened seventy five years ago and more about the discoveries that the scientific
community will be sharing with us. That's what I think is going to happen
next. I hope. So. I think that they definitely the scientists have
something to contribute, but I wouldn't. I'm not going to put it all
in the science hands because their rulers can't measure certain things, and it's no
knock on them or their brilliance at all. It just means that we're dealing
with something so complicated that is almost absurd to even start to think about,
because once you go down that rabbit hole, it's difficult, you know,
it's difficult to walk away from. I hope it's a combination of different people
of different walks of life, you know, artists, scientists, people or
philosophers, people who are interested in spiritual matters. I hope it's a combination
of all of it, because I don't think science the way we understand science
can tell the entire picture. You know, science still can't really confirm whether
there's any life beyond death. But yet I've seen and heard things that tell
me that there is. So can I prove it scientifically? No? Does
it mean it didn't happen? So that's you know, that's that's part of
our challenge is to make all of these things work together and not exclude because
it sounds too weird or that's not going to happen, or oh god,
there can't be dino beavers. You know. It's like, well, I'm
making room for dino beavers. I'm making room for it. Let it,
let it walk right by me. Because I've seen things that just as you
know, weird in the you know, the scheme of like the baseline of
what we consider reality, you know, chains and moaning in the middle of
my Brooklyn apartment that sounds like something out of the you know, the London
Tower. I can't explain that, but it absolutely happened. So right,
and I think that I think that science will eventually. I think That's where
I'm at with that. I think, you know, for instance, if
you if you look at the right group of scientists, there are scientists who
are studying some of the phenomenon in a different way already, that have been
doing it for decades. Like people keep saying science needs to be involved,
well, there have been plenty of scientists involved, if you if you know
where to look for. And so my example is so a lot of people
for for centuries have been talking about chi they've been talking about the chakras.
They've been talking about the soul, this internal energy that we have inside of
us, inside of us, and now science has a name for it,
and they call it the bio feel, and scientists have studied it. People
are researching it, they're doing studies on it. So I think Eventually,
what will happen is science will catch up to what's already happening and come up
with a name for it. Will they be able to measure all of it?
No, but I think that they're starting to understand some things. Another
example is Gary Nolan was very interested in that one part of the brain,
which a lot of the people who heard that go, that makes so much
sense. People who are into the paranormal have said that, you know,
that's that's like part of the whole third eye thing, you know, you
know, obviously we have the front and then also the back, and then
there's people who do the se five say well, yeah, of course,
we are like antennas, you know, like little beacons. So I feel
like science can marry this concept and be effective in doing so. I think
some people will really appreciate that. It'll help bring more people in. Well.
Listening to Gary is very is very exciting because he's a brilliant guy,
and he's willing to take on subjects that have been tabooed for a long time
and handle them in a sober, methodical, intelligent way. So important.
So that part, yes, absolutely, So we're just in the beginning.
I mean, we really are just in the beginning. I mean, if
there's going to be any massive disclosure, it's going to be it's going to
just happen. If it's like a mass sighting, or if there's some communication
or something, then that's the way it's going to be. But I don't
think the government's going to be handing out any great, big announcements lately,
especially and we've got a war going on and we've got problems with Russia and
all of that stuff that I hate politics and war and endless aggression, and
you know, it just seems like what's the point. I just don't get
it. I mean, maybe because I grew up in the nineteen sixties,
you know, I have this sort of love love everybody kind of thing.
I just don't understand what the point of, like, you know, any
of this is, and it's really holding us back. And you know,
once you get to be a certain age and you've seen this that happen over
and over and over again, you think this is just us rights. And
I think, you know, a lot of people want the giant, big
disclosure despite everything that's going on in the world, and of course the timing
is terrible, but I think it won't happen because the trip method is so
much more palpable. And I also, and I've said this a few times,
I think the UFO community is like the guinea pig for how this is
all being revealed anyway. So they're kind of like, we'll throw this out,
see what happens. See if that's going to work. If it worked,
well, we'll push it to another level. It will throw this out,
See what happens, See what the problem is. If it doesn't work,
we're just going to move on to something else. And I see it
over and over in the time that I've joined the community, and I think
that's what's happening with that. And I just don't think we're ready for like
someone just standing up and saying, ABC, this is it Not entirely I
think it would be a real shock to most of the population. I think
that we still have to go on with our very human lives. But when
you think about what the powers that or going through right now we're looking at
we're at a very interesting point in history where we're seeing the control of the
masses on such a scale between you know, social media technology, big tech,
population control. Living in the kind of a neo feudal world, you
know, with no real one government but sort of a lot of shifting alliances.
I think we have governments really on the power flex with facial recognition technology,
social credit systems. I think that we're watching our governments right now throughout
the world just going through these like power sort of pulses, you know,
like like the whole COVID thing was like a blueprint for how to mass control
populations. And I think this is this is going to work against any kind
of refreshing, honest, amazing, liberating, exhilarating, cathartic experience because we've
got the government and everything that's in controlling us working in the opposite direction,
against liberation, against free thought, against not being controlled and monitored constantly.
So it's really up to us, right we can only just keep pushing this
along, because I think we've got other forces against us that are sort of
much greater and much more like a tsunami, like a tidal wave in terms
of power and control than we had in America in the nineteen fifties. In
the nineteen forties when this was all just kind of beginning, right the dawn
of the modern UFO age, this was minuscule back then compared to the control
systems that are in place now. I mean, they're working on ways to
control cryptocurrency, right, there's always the the beauty of having cryptocurrency is to
be outside of, you know, the system, so that our system is
now trying to greater control that greater control almost everything. So good luck.
Yeah, it's funny, it's just the thought about what's going on with marijuana
came through my head when you said that. Even that. I was like,
they like how they want to tax it and control who grows it and
control how it suspense. They were never gonna let us do what we wanted.
They were going to tax it, they're going to control it. They're
going to corporatize it. They're going to put things in it the way they
put in cigarettes. You know, cigarettes is not pure tobacco. Cigarettes are
loaded with all kinds of chemicals that it would shock you if you really started
thinking about it that keep the burn, even that keep the burning, the
chemicals in the paper when you think about what that kind. If you just
smoke normal tobacco that you grew in your back yard, I don't think it
would be nearly as toxic as lighting up a cigarette that you bought to the
deli. So yeah, there's a lot of money in marijuana and they know
it. So yeah, so I mean, I see, I see it,
But I also see the flip side where there are people fighting against that
control system. Even the Director of Intel was, you know, making the
point that we have way too much confidentiality, like way too much secrecy that
it's gotten to the point where even like an email about like where you're going
on the weekend is like being labeled top secret and it's bogging down the system.
So it's funny because actually it's like a full circle when you think about
it, because all of this started with their concern that the system was going
to be bogged down by reports. All the Sigma started because of that.
They wanted to stop bogging down on reports because it was just too overwhelming for
them. And now we're at the other extreme right where all things are being
classified and therefore they have to declassify like so it's like they got bogged down
in both ways. So yeah, so there's like a I think a fight
that we're not quite seeing, but we're getting some hints of going on behind
behind the scenes about that power struggle. Yeah, there's a lot. There's
a lot going on, so right, people are still seeing things. Those
tic TACs are still I'm sure bobbing around out there somewhere. They don't just
go away. Absolutely, there's still people who pilots who've seen things. Please,
it's just going to continue to happen. And it's just such a fantastic,
fertile land of lore. You know, so much from the beginning,
from you know, the Adanski era, you know, and then into the
nineteen sixties and then into the seventies and then the eighties and now now it's
very high tech. I mean, we weren't really thinking about tic TACs back
in the nineteen seventies. You know, it was still like the Travis Walton
era, you know, of the right, you know, take you up
in the spaceship and you know, terrify you and then put you back down.
And you know, I mean, the thing is like, even if
you don't believe Travis Walton, and I know that people who don't, I
don't have enough facts to really analyze it and really come down on one side
or the other. But the fact is that it's not just Travis Walton.
You know, there are a lot of you know, he's not just the
one lone guy, right. So I actually felt inspired at one point to
look up a quote that I love and it actually is from the first time
I heard it was a movie called Millennium, which is about time travel,
and I'm going to read the quote it is and apparently I did not know
it's Winston Churchill. It is now is not the end, It is not
even the beginning of the end, but it is perhaps the end of the
beginning. So well, every beginning will have an end, and then you
work slowly to the middle. Yes, and I think we're at the end
of the beginning, our beginning chapter on UFOs, which was unfortunately a very
dark time in many ways. I think we're at the end of the beginning
chapter, and I think we're about to hit chapter two, and I'm excited
for chapter two. I'm especially excited for the epilogue, which willfully we'll all
get to see. But inspecially time I want to hear. I want to
hear more. I never hear I read a book and I'm like, well,
I'd like to hear more. I'd like to hear a whole book about
like that, you know, like in the Skinwalker Ranch book when they talked
about certain things and they just went right on to something else, and I'm
still stuck on that one thing, like, wait a minute, wait,
wait, tell us more. You know, I want to hear more about
what the Katski saw. I want to hear in much greater deal. I
want to see him do a drawing of what he saw. I mean,
I'm very interested in that because because that's just weird. Okay, that's not
your normal alien spaceship or you know, ghost story, or when you have
something just manifesting itself in front of you in a in a very intelligent and
directed way, it just defies all of our other narratives. And that's just
incredible to me. That's like the highest form of art right there, that
they can create this right whatever is happening in Skinwalker Ranch, be it Earth
energy or from above or from the magnetism in the area, or the energy
is coming from that place, because they've done measurements, they've done some scientific
experiments with readings and things like that in the area, and apparently there's something
very charged about the mineral life in that part of the world. So I
want to hear more about that. But they just it was a very skinny
book. You know they could have. Yes, I agree a little bit
further in places I'd like to go back. I wonder if that was Pentagon
censorship a little bit. I do. Oh yeah, they said it was
a big book, and I think I felt the same way. So a
couple of things came to mind just now. One was, you know,
some people have talked about crop circles being done with electromagnet waves essentially, right,
and then that it has to do also maybe with gravitational waves, and
that is perhaps the form of art. And while we were talking earlier,
I was thinking about whether or not, you know, these visitors had a
form of art other than of course their symbols that we sometimes hear about.
But now that you've mentioned this part again and said that that might be their
form of art, it's almost like you answered a question I was thinking in
my head. Well, I think the crop circles are absolutely a form of
art, and art that has a much greater meaning because than just art.
I think that you know, with the mathematics and the fractals and all of
that stuff that goes into it, it's very precise, it's very directed,
the spaceships themselves, if you want to call them spaceships, the craft that
people have talked about for ages, the beauty, the beauty of these things,
the way that they're described as as almost like being alive, like the
machines themselves, of actually being alive. That there's like a sort of an
exo skin that's living, light, light emanating. That's all. They're beautiful.
This stuff is beautiful looking, Okay, silver discs and tic TACs and
the design they Art and science are very connected. And if they're not trying
to do art the way we think of art, they are absolutely excelling as
artists because of the beauty of these of the things that they have and the
things that they've done. I mean, it's like you're like speechless, and
it leads to kind of speechless just looking at them. You know, they're
not just like you know, like a bus. It's just very utilitarian.
These things are just like they're just showing off, you know what I mean,
They're just it's just goes beyond. That's true. It could be doing
a really big presentation for us. And that that leads to another thing that
I was thinking earlier when you were talking about them basically sending out a signal
that some of us are picking up. I was thinking, how often are
they trying to communicate but we're just not hearing it. I don't know.
There could be a whole plan involved, There could be a you know,
a time to the place for everything, right, they reach certain levels where
they have certain tasks to do, because I think that there is definitely a
very serious involvement. I don't think it's just random or whenever they feel like
it. I think they're because I just don't get the sense that this type
of intelligence is just bored and just doing things for the hell of it.
I think that there is a very u there's a script. You know,
there's a book. There's a script that's being played out, and it's being
done in such a way that it's almost imperceptible. But they go in and
out, you know, when you when you listen to Preston Dennett's accounts of
especially, what always comes to mind are the flying saucers that appear that drive
in movies. Have you ever listened, I mean, if you've referred to
that book. Actually recently I spoke to them. That is amazing. That
is absolutely an out and out display. I mean to dark behind some trees
or dart into the ocean when people are looking, they don't want to be
seen. But when they're showing up at a drive in movie in the middle
of California in the nineteen fifties, I mean, what does do explain that
that is a deliberate here we are, they're not doing it right now.
So I think that there's a reason for all of this, and it's it's
coming in like phases. Yeah, And it really is interesting because all these
things just click in so many different things that people have said. And a
people are paying attention and they see it as a forest instead of the trees,
they'll see how the trees are actually making the forests. And Valet,
who's very very interested in this topic and it's done extensive research and extensive participation,
says it is a control mechanism. He thinks that there's a system behind
the scenes that how things are being done is also being calculated, just as
you said. So it's interesting how that clicks into place. And I was
thinking again about you know, some of the things that have been seen in
the sky that people have filmed. They can see like plasma moving and becoming
something else. They can see it happening before their eyes, they film it.
They I think the Vigilantes of Mexico are a good example. That's a
group that has shown numerous sightings in the sky. So I wonder what message
that is, What art are they trying to give to us that we're not
quite catching, But hopefully one day we will. I think if I were
them, I would really hope that we would start to kind of you know,
you know, sort of transcend it become a little bit, i don't
know, less violent, less less aggressive, less less this lot we have
a lot of problems, go down the list. I mean, honestly,
we as a species are we're very self destructive. And if we're dealing with
an intelligence that's very advanced and it has transcended all of this, I mean,
it must be very frustrating for them to see us in this kind of
turmoil constantly. So I would I would hope that there's some evolution taking place
conscious wise and that will inter sort of interconnect into the only other gears that
it requires for us to continue to advance. But I'm not that I'm not
that hopeful. I'm really not. For humans, Yeah, exultly. It
just occurs to me. Just now, we talked briefly a little bit about
the possibility of like hybridization, like the missing link. Great. I was
just thinking, everyone's assuming that the aliens or breeding with us to make hybrid
children for their benefit. But maybe they're just hoping to breed out our aggression,
like we just eliminated. I don't know, Well, they have a
lot of do they have a lot to deal with then, because we have
how many billions of people on the strength and we have not just chaos in
Ukraine, I mean it's all over in every continent. There's very little like
real solid, stable peace. I mean, you'd have to be living in
the middle of the Pacific Ocean on an island somewhere to really be away from
all of this, the whole hybrid thing. That could take another ten hours
to really kind of to break that down, get in and you know what,
hopefully we'll get to do that again in the future. But as it
is, I feel like I've taken a lot of your time tonight, and
I'm gonna know it's good. Yes, I don't want to I don't want
to take too much more. I'm it close. It out. Okay,
So I wanted to let you tell everyone where they can find you, and
I know that you'll be on UCR. It's Friday, right, yeah,
talking about the art club. I saw that. That's exciting. So can
you please let let people know where they can find you? On Twitter?
Yah, Susan Finston at Susan Finston and also on Facebook same just Susan Finceston
and Facebook. I don't use Facebook as much, but I do check in
periodically. I think UFO Twitter has kept me pretty welded to Twitter for a
while now, and so if you ever want to hit me up and say
hello, that's where I am. And I believe Da Vinci is where a
lot of your ink paintings are at the moment. Yes. Oh and the
NFTs, Yeah I did. I did a couple of month's worth of NFTs
at Da Vinci at Da Vinci Gallery, and I've sold a couple, which
is nice. But I just I've taken a little break from doing that because
I have to sort of concentrate on things that actually make money. That's not
making any money, but a couple of people have bought them and I'm totally
totally flattered and just thrilled that anybody wants to buy or look at or be
interested in. So thank you to everyone for that. Well, if you
ever put them on T shirts, I think a lot of people would want
those too, I thought, yes, I think I would want one on
a T shirt. Also like one, Oh you know what, the one
that I put on the connector is the one where the entity is in a
bathtub and I just loved it. Oh yeah, I should I And I
liked the one that you used for the charity, for the Paul's Middle Georgia
charity. Yes, I thought that was quite fun. I guess I like
I like the I like the fun ones. I guess that's the right way
to put it. But like if you put those on, yeah, if
you put those on T shirts, I think that you would find people buying
those. I have a feeling, Yes, I think so. And there's
lots of ways to do that now with like I used Sazzle back in the
day. I don't know if that's still around, but yeah, so I
think that I had thought about it, and then I got kind of carried
away into the NFT thing and then I thought, well, I don't want
to be like, you know, a little mis merchandiser. But if somebody
wants a T shirt, I mean I think that's great. I mean I
think I should pick out a couple, or maybe I should ask people like
if you could have a T shirt like which one and just have them done
instead of like printing up like a whole bunch of them or something like that.
Well, the nice thing about digital art nowadays, or any art that
you put in a digital format, is you really could just provide the picture
and my company will do all the printing for you and take care of the
orders, and you just get the percentage. You have to of course find
the right one. But AnyWho, I was just saying that that might be
a fun thing to think about. Everyone would benefit from having a Susan fencet
in. Yeah, I've already said I think a Susan fenceon would fit really
well with my dojo theme. As you can see, this is all my
UFOs. I could put it right here to pretty up my area. That's
what I'm thinking. One day, when I get my taxes, I'll take
a look and see put a Susan fencet in piece right there. Maybe no
one else. Sorry, I will certainly keep the T shirt thing in mind,
because who doesn't love the good UFO T shirt exactly? I think that'd
be so cool. All right, Well, now you've given me something to
think about. Right, Well, I'm glad that you know, with your
inspiration. I'm so proud that I was able to inspire you and I inspired
you. I would love for you to start, you know, doing a
little drawing and don't it doesn't have to be a big serious thing, but
you could kind of start out and then kind of see where it goes.
Yeah, I think it would be like I'd be gone for a weekend and
everyone would be like, where did she go? And I'd have to come
out of it saying I did this painting. I think you would really love
it. I think there's nothing more satisfying than making something that you love.
And I really do. I do, And I just wonder what would come
if I brought the two together, brought the painting and this topic together,
what would happen. I think I'd maybe meditate first, so it's like,
tell me what to show, because I find that's why I was saying it
earlier. I think that if you gave it a try, I thought of
it more, maybe as a visualization than trying to clear your thoughts because that's
impossible. Then you might you might tap into some of that dream and figure
it out a little bit. It's incredible the messaging that you can get once
you open yourself up for that. So yeah, I don't know, just
something to think about. Let me know if you do it, I'd think
about. Okay, So everyone, I'm going to say good night, thank
you for listening, or good day. Of course, you know I tend
to joke about you know, we have some future humans out there. Yes,
and I want to say. This is deb from dev stat at Dojo,
part of the Calling All Beings podcast network. If you want to reach
me, you can find me at Study of UAPs. I'm on Twitter,
Facebook, LinkedIn, and of course with the Calling All Beings Cabby Family on
YouTube. So have a good day, everybody, take care. Thank you. Jeb