1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:45,320 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly 10 00:00:45,399 --> 00:00:49,960 and I'm Bill Thomas. And I'm rasping just a little bit today because I've 11 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,200 had a long day and I'm sick, So please excuse the rasp in my 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,679 throat. Hopefully it just reminds you of Catherine Hepburn. By the time everyone 13 00:00:57,759 --> 00:01:00,640 hears this, you'll be one hundred percent healthy. I certainly hope so. 14 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,079 In the meantime, though, do I sound like Katherine Hepburn, like even 15 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:11,400 the littlest bit. Absolutely, that was the first thing that came to mind. 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,040 Yeah, that's the right answer. Or more, am I doing a 17 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Lauren Bacall kind of thing? Tulula bank had any of any of the old 18 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:23,400 any of the old starlets, I'm fine with. Some of our younger listeners 19 00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:29,480 may be saying, Tallula, who wait, who's Lauren Bacall? What? 20 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:37,319 To me? T Lula Bankhead is probably a borderline obscure Hollywood reference to start 21 00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:41,840 with. Yeah, you're talking to a film teacher after all. Yeah. 22 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,959 I've been trying for years to come up with actresses with raspy voices that I 23 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:51,159 can compare myself to, and it's those three pretty much. Since so many 24 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,959 people had stage names back then, I can't help but think, is Tulula 25 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,599 Bankhead really her real name? Oh, it would have to be a stage 26 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,799 name. I'm sure if we looked it up, probably we would find it's 27 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,039 like Jane Smith or something like that. Yeah, seriously, you know what 28 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:12,919 Carrie Grant's original name was, right, I do, but now I've forgotten 29 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,680 it? What is it? Archie Leech? Yeah? I remember? It 30 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:23,439 was just really a terrible Bland name, Carrie Grant. That's a good movie 31 00:02:23,439 --> 00:02:25,960 star name. It is a good movie star name. And I wish I 32 00:02:27,039 --> 00:02:31,520 had a nice movie star face and voice and paycheck to go along with these 33 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:36,639 things. Alas, all I can do is sound like a cheap imitation. 34 00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:39,840 Catherine Hepburn, you sound better than that. So what are we going to 35 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,360 talk about today, Kristin Dilly. We're gonna go ahead and run an episode 36 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,000 of Ask Us Anything, because, as always, we have a number of 37 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,439 people who have reached out and said, hey, I've got a question about 38 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,759 and our answer for that is we have an answer, or we're going to 39 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:59,800 try to have an answer. There have been fantastic questions in great discussion on 40 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:05,680 our mind over murder and especially the Colonial Parkway murders facebook page. Lots of 41 00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:08,520 questions, lots of opinion, and we welcome it all. There have been 42 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:15,120 a few odd references which we've actually deleted. I don't know why one person 43 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:20,159 in particular seems obsessed with people having chips inserted in their bodies, but that 44 00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:23,719 kind of thing that just goes away. I'm sorry, I don't know what 45 00:03:23,759 --> 00:03:27,719 you're rambling about, but we're going to take it out off the page. 46 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,919 We are very interested though, in people's opinions about the Colonial Parkway murders, 47 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:37,400 the status of the investigation, all of that stuff is of great interest to 48 00:03:37,719 --> 00:03:40,879 our audience, and based on the volume of questions, it seems like there's 49 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:46,240 a lot of interest. Absolutely, And if you are one of those weird 50 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:52,280 bought or troll accounts that keeps posting weird random videos in our comments, please 51 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:54,520 stop. It's so obnoxious and all we're going to do is block you. 52 00:03:55,199 --> 00:04:00,919 Yeah, one after another. Oh Man to go ahead and kick it off 53 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,599 with the question from Jessica, which I think is a really excellent one. 54 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:10,400 Jessica asks how long before the Colonial Parkway murders does law enforcement think Alan Wade 55 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,520 Wilmer Senior was active. My mom grew up in the area and she remembers 56 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,800 in the late nineteen seventies being fearful of going onto the parkway after dark. 57 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,000 She does not remember any particular instance, but her and her friends know it 58 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,120 wasn't safe after dark. I wonder if he was active in the nineteen seventies, 59 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,600 was he maybe harassing people back then as well? Well. There's two 60 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,160 parts to the answer. I think, first of all, in terms of 61 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,959 the Colonial Parkway. So this is in the Tidewater area of Virginia where the 62 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,600 four double homicides that we call the Colonial Parkway murders occurred. The earliest report 63 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,720 we have as family members seems to be from nineteen eighty two. We have 64 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:56,639 people reporting into us that they were harassed by a man who is clearly Alan 65 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,800 Wade Wilmer senior. It's a short, muscular man and wearing almost like mechanics 66 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:08,800 clothes, like a jumpsuit. Harassing, one could even say, attacking a 67 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:15,560 couple near the Yorktown Memorial. That seems to be around nineteen eighty two is 68 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,560 the first report that we've heard about. Now I'm sure law enforcement has heard 69 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:27,480 about additional reports, although again I find myself so frustrated that there are so 70 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,560 many of these reports about people couples being harassed on the Colonial Parkway and in 71 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:40,279 Yorktown and in surrounding areas. It's still amazing to me that law enforcement, 72 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:44,360 specifically the FBI and the National Park Service, we're not able to put this 73 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,040 together, that these are all the same man Wilmer, attacking, harassing, 74 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:55,600 however you want to put it, but in many cases terrifying these young couples. 75 00:05:55,639 --> 00:05:59,680 I think as far back as eighty two is what we have for reports. 76 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,240 Now there has been discussion, but I want to make it clear here 77 00:06:03,319 --> 00:06:10,079 this is our opinion, not necessarily law enforcement's opinion. But there have been 78 00:06:10,079 --> 00:06:15,879 discussions in Lancaster County, especially in the last few months since Wilmer was identified 79 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,600 as a serial killer and as the murderer of Robin Edwards and David Nobling, 80 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:27,480 as well as Teresa Howell, there have been discussions about whether or not Wilmer 81 00:06:27,759 --> 00:06:32,240 may have been involved in a nineteen seventy six murder of a couple, the 82 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:40,519 Rogers family, in Kilmarnock, Virginia, which is right nearby. This murder 83 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:46,439 involves an airline pilot, Dale Rogers and his wife Charlotte, who had renovated 84 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:54,639 a beautiful home on the water and are considered not from there. They are 85 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,519 outsiders, if you will. They were shotgunned to death at their home in 86 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,399 what appear to be a robbery. But the odd thing is they live literally 87 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:10,839 right down the road. It's described to me as a few acres away from 88 00:07:11,319 --> 00:07:16,480 where the Wilmers were living at the time. So it's a very strange coincidence 89 00:07:16,519 --> 00:07:20,800 and one of the things I've said about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and perhaps other 90 00:07:20,839 --> 00:07:26,959 members of his family is they seem to be surrounded by unsolved murders. There 91 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:32,319 are a lot of unsolved murders for a beautiful rural area like Lancaster County to 92 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:39,000 have this many unsolved murders as far back as the seventies. By my calculation, 93 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,600 in nineteen seventy six, Alan Wade Wilmer would have been about twenty two 94 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,240 years old and his older brother Keith would have been a couple of years older. 95 00:07:49,399 --> 00:07:58,000 So they are certainly demographically close enough in age to be young adults. 96 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,839 And the weird thing is they are right down the street road is probably a 97 00:08:03,839 --> 00:08:07,000 better way to put that, from the site where the Rogers family were gunned 98 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,959 down. We're not saying it's definitive, but when you're looking back at the 99 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,639 Mary Harding case from nineteen eighty five, you actually have to roll the clock 100 00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:22,800 further back to look at some of these other unsolved murders in the area and 101 00:08:22,839 --> 00:08:28,279 think to yourself where the Wilmer's involved here. Agreed, if you're surrounded by 102 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:35,879 unsolved murders, I think that definitely bears asking the question is their correlation here 103 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:39,360 or is their causation here? Next question comes from Patricia. This is very 104 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:45,120 interesting, I think she asks, do you think that Wilmer might possibly have 105 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,639 been protected, so to speak, by local law enforcement? Can you give 106 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,559 us any details about what you have heard about the Wilmer brothers or his family 107 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:58,240 in general. I don't want to go too far here. We've heard from 108 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,480 a number of people that have known the Wilmers for years. We've mentioned our 109 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:09,559 new friends from Lancaster County who've reached out to us to say I went to 110 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,279 school with the Wilmers, or I lived down the road from the Wilmers, 111 00:09:13,639 --> 00:09:18,600 and they've had a number of observations, particularly about the three brothers. This 112 00:09:18,639 --> 00:09:24,200 would be Keith Wilmer, Alan Wilmer, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, the middle 113 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:30,279 brother, and their younger brother, Timothy. The two younger brothers, Alan 114 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,639 and Timothy are both dead, and only Keith Wilmer, the oldest of the 115 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:41,240 three, now Keiths in his seventies. The characterizations that we've heard are not 116 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:48,320 particularly positive. There seems to be in that generation, specifically a pensiant for 117 00:09:50,159 --> 00:09:56,720 violence and a suspicion of being involved in a number of different rapes and murders 118 00:09:56,799 --> 00:10:01,519 over the years. That doesn't mean that all three brothers are guilty of anything, 119 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,679 although we know definitively that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior is a serial killer and 120 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,799 a rapist, and of course, he died in twenty seventeen. Interestingly, 121 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,919 his brother Timothy, the youngest of the three, died almost a year to 122 00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:20,399 the day after his brother Allan, under circumstances that we are still researching. 123 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,279 It appears that he may have died in an automobile accident and that he may 124 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,799 have been living over in Newport News. He had lived in Mechanicsville, which 125 00:10:28,879 --> 00:10:31,919 is over near Richmond, for a number of years, but in the last 126 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,159 part of his life he seems to have been living in the Newport News area, 127 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,840 which puts him in the Tidewater area. Yes, it does. Another 128 00:10:39,879 --> 00:10:43,360 interesting question from Melanie who asks has law enforcement ever been able to track down 129 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:50,240 Wilmer's ald truck or other previous vehicles. There was definitely a white van stocking 130 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,879 folks on the park way back then. Did Wilmer own a white van? 131 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:58,240 To our knowledge, we don't know that for a fact. We do know 132 00:10:58,279 --> 00:11:01,120 that Alan Wade Wilmer did draw. I have a number of different vehicles, 133 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:07,000 and even hung out at one point at a wrecking yard a junkyard with a 134 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,639 number of friends. They used to sit there and drink beer and tell stories. 135 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,200 And we actually don't know where the green truck is. This is the 136 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:22,080 truck that's featured so prominently in the materials from the FBI and the Virginia State 137 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:28,159 Police. We've heard about local folks who've purchased vehicles from Alan Wade Wilmer Sor, 138 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:35,639 including a pearl colored Chevrolet pickup truck. I don't know where the green 139 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,919 truck that shows up so much in these wanted posters and other vehicles. I 140 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,440 don't know where they all ended up. It appears that he may have sold 141 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,039 them, or they may have been scrapped. I can't help but think all 142 00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:52,399 those times that he was hanging out at that junkyard, if that's perhaps where 143 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:58,440 they ought to be looking for the nineteen sixty six Dodge, the blue green 144 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,720 truck that we've seen so much in the materials that were distributed to the press. 145 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,639 This one's interesting. This question comes from Emmy Lou who asks have any 146 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:13,440 character witnesses come forward with regard to Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior. Well, a 147 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:18,080 number of people have come forward to law enforcement and to the families, our 148 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:22,120 families. I wouldn't say too many people have much good to say about Alan 149 00:12:22,159 --> 00:12:28,039 Wilmer Senior at all. Some of the people that have known him for years 150 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,519 have said that he could be shy and withdrawn and very quiet with people that 151 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,559 he didn't know. Well. It certainly sounds like he had a very rough 152 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,440 upbringing. We've heard a lot about the fact that these three men, Keith, 153 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:48,440 Allen, and Timothy, their father was particularly cruel to the sons, 154 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:52,919 especially Allan. For some reason, we don't really know what that's about. 155 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,639 The two older boys, Keith and Alan ended up working on the water as 156 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,759 watermen very young, that is, when they were teenagers, and then their 157 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,879 youngest brother, Timothy, seems to have escaped some of that really hardcore manual 158 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,480 labor that was expected of the three boys that seemed to be mostly focused on 159 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:16,320 Keith and Alan. Very interesting that people that have known the family for years 160 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:22,080 have pointed out that their father was extremely rough, particularly on the two older 161 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,240 boys, and for some reason, his cruelty, and that's the word they 162 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,720 used, seemed to be directed at Allan, Keith was the oldest, he 163 00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:33,240 was the favorite, and then tim or Timothy was the youngest, and he 164 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,440 was the baby, and he got away with the most. I think about 165 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:41,279 my own family, where I was the second oldest, we felt like the 166 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:46,960 younger kids in my family, my younger brother Jack and our younger sister Kathy, 167 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:50,639 we felt like they had it a lot easier than we had. Not 168 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,519 that my parents were hard on us, just in terms of I don't know, 169 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,480 mowen lawns and doing chores and that sort of thing. The two older 170 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,919 boys, myself from a brother Richard, we felt like we got hit with 171 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,519 more of the brunt of that. And then later on, and this was 172 00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:11,120 a subject of some consternation, we felt like that Jack and Cathy got away 173 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:13,519 with a lot more than we ever had, because of course we paved the 174 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:18,879 way. So some of that dynamic maybe happening in the Wilmer family as well. 175 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:24,080 Keith is the favorite, he's the oldest, Alan for some reason is 176 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,919 the black sheep, and he's very poorly treated. And I don't mean to 177 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,759 make light of that. As I understand it, it was not easy for 178 00:14:30,879 --> 00:14:35,399 him. And then Timothy, the youngest, he skates by being the baby. 179 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,399 Related to that is a comment from Jim, who says, I would 180 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:45,120 be interested in hearing stories about Wilmer from people who knew or worked with him. 181 00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,240 What was he like as a friend, what was he like to work 182 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:52,679 for, etc. Bill. Have you received any intel over the last couple 183 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:56,840 of weeks that would shed any light on that particular question. Yes, some. 184 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,600 Now. I don't want to make it sound like I'm an expert on 185 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:03,639 all things Wilmer. All I can do is reflect what people are telling us. 186 00:15:03,679 --> 00:15:07,960 But a number of people have reached out to us. One person had 187 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:13,320 some very interesting things to say. They had worked for Alan Wade Wilmer Senior 188 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,440 when he ran his tree business, so he did tree cutting, clearing of 189 00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:24,720 land, and they had said that they worked directly for him. Interestingly, 190 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:30,240 they made a couple of observations about the fact that they were actually physically afraid 191 00:15:30,559 --> 00:15:35,519 of Wilmer. Now, Wilmer's kind of shortened stature, but he's very powerfully 192 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:39,639 built, and this guy who worked for him said that even though he probably 193 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:43,840 had six inches on him in terms of height or reach, he said he 194 00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:48,519 absolutely would not have wanted to take him on in a physical altercation. Because 195 00:15:48,559 --> 00:15:54,720 he was so incredibly strong and agile. He would do things like climb up 196 00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:58,519 a tree with just a chainsaw and no safety equipment. But he was so 197 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:03,960 physically strong. He could clamber up a tree with a chainsaw slung over his 198 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,120 shoulder and get up to the top of the tree or wherever they were trimming, 199 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,039 start up the chainsaw, and so this was dangerous. Wow. And 200 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,360 yeah, Wilmer had the confidence and the physicality that he would just clamber directly 201 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,240 up a tree. This guy described him as almost being like a monkey like 202 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,519 being, having that kind of physical strength, and then he'd get up there 203 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,480 and he'd trim whatever branches they were lopping off. He also said some other 204 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,639 very interesting things. He said that Wilmer preferred to do businessing in cash, 205 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:38,480 which we've heard from a variety of people, some of whom hired him to 206 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:44,000 do tree care and clear cutting that kind of thing. Wilmer always preferred to 207 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,200 be paid in cash, and that he used to carry five thousand dollars in 208 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,399 cash and a bag in the truck, whatever truck he was driving that day, 209 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:56,559 and a handgun, which I found very interesting. I do too. 210 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:02,200 Five grand was the usual amount of cash in this bag which he would use 211 00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:06,440 to pay bills and also to collect funds that would do him. And then 212 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,599 he always had a loaded handgun in the cab of whatever truck he was driving. 213 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,640 The implication to me was that this was a guy who was not to 214 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,279 be messed with. He could take care of himself physically, and then on 215 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,519 top of that, he was always carrying a loaded revolver. I found that 216 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,480 very striking. I do as well. My parents just had some tree work 217 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,279 done over at their house. They are surrounded by a lot of very tall 218 00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:37,839 trees, and my stepdad took great delight the other day in showing me pictures 219 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,559 that he had taken of one of these guys was doing the tree work, 220 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:45,079 climbing way up to the top of it had to be at least one hundred 221 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,920 feet high of this tree, and was just happily up there sewing away trimming 222 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,200 branches. I think you have to be a certain type of fearless to be 223 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,519 willing to embark on that kind of work, So that actually doesn't surprise me 224 00:17:56,559 --> 00:18:02,119 all that much. Very interesting. The next question comes from Kim. She 225 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,559 asks, do you know if any of Wilmer's family, wife, brother, 226 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,920 or kids have spoken to law enforcement since the January announcement. If so, 227 00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:11,680 were they happy to assist or did they not want to talk? Have you 228 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,400 been privy to any conversations. Have you tried to speak to their family directly? 229 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,720 I know the family has spoken to law enforcement several times, and law 230 00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:25,799 enforcement wmen include the FBI, the Virginia State Police, and probably the Lancaster 231 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,000 Police Department as well. My understanding is that the family has been cooperative and 232 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:36,640 have tried to provide assistance. You can imagine this has to be quite a 233 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,880 shock to the family, and even issued a statement saying this man they're referring 234 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,680 to Alan Wade Wilmer, this is not the man that we knew. I 235 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,640 think it's quite possible. Did this guy live the double life? At one 236 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,880 point he was married about six years from his early twenties to his late twenties, 237 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,839 and he had two kids, and then was divorced, and then he 238 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,839 never remarried, although he he had have some relationships with women over the years, 239 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:08,599 but he I think was capable of having this kind of duality where he 240 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,720 had a career as a waterman. He had this business doing the tree service, 241 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:18,559 so he's out fishing crabbing, oystering. He also works on the land 242 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,319 at particularly the tree maintenance, and at the same time there's this really dark 243 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,839 side of him. Obviously, he's confirmed to have been a serial killer and 244 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,200 a rapist, and I believe strongly that if the FBI and the Virginia State 245 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,160 Police work this case hard, and I hope they are, I think he 246 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:41,400 will be identified as the offender in other unsolved rapes and murders in Virginia and 247 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,319 perhaps elsewhere. There's at least two sides to this man. The guy who's 248 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:51,000 out there working perhaps a kind of a lonely existence, but he's out there 249 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,839 making a living, and then at the same time there's this incredibly dark, 250 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,200 frightening side of him as well. The reports that we've got are from people 251 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:07,240 that have known the family and known Wilmer in particular for a number of years. 252 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,839 But the information that we're getting back from law enforcement is that the family 253 00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:17,200 are doing their best to cooperate with the various agencies answer questions that I know. 254 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:22,480 They've provided what they had in terms of letters, photographs, anything that 255 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:26,599 was remaining in the house. The son lived in the house at the time 256 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:33,640 of the FBI Virginia State Police raids in early January. But that was the 257 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,960 house that Wilmer Senior had lived in previously, which is I think one of 258 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,440 the key places that law enforcement wanted to search. As I understand it, 259 00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:45,680 the family's done everything they can to cooperate. Next questions from Lauren, I 260 00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:51,240 know they haven't loaded Wilmer Senior's DNA in Takotis, but is there any chance 261 00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:56,079 they've loaded his profile to one of the DNA search sites used for genetic genealogy 262 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,920 or was it a straight lab test off his known sample that identified how law 263 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,599 enforcement hasn't explained all of this to us, But I think it's important to 264 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:11,319 go back over how we believe this identification came together, and that is that 265 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:17,279 it's probably over a year ago now. The Virginia State Police and the Virginia 266 00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:23,519 Department of Forensic Science applied for and received as SAKE Grant SAKI Grant Sexual Assault 267 00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:30,319 Kit Initiative Grant. These are designed to provide funding for outside labs to assist 268 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:37,359 in testing rape kits and seeking identification of offenders. In the Robin Edwards David 269 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:45,279 Nobling example, the tests were conducted on the rape kit from Robin Edwards, 270 00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:49,279 which could have indicated, as we've known, a potential offender in that case, 271 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,759 and this is something that the Edwards and Nobling families have been lobbying for 272 00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:59,279 several years and we've certainly supported them in this regard. After we saw the 273 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,680 potential of the Golden State killer case, when the offender there, Joseph DiAngelo, 274 00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:11,839 was identified as a result of using forensic investigative genetic genealogy, we saw 275 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,519 that there could be an opportunity within the Colonial Parkway murders to identify an offender 276 00:22:15,599 --> 00:22:21,480 or offenders. The evidence was sent out to one DNA lab they were unsuccessful. 277 00:22:21,799 --> 00:22:25,960 This would be an independent lab, and then a second attempt was made 278 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,079 as part of this Sake grant, and an outside lab was successful in creating 279 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:36,160 a DNA profile. We believe based on what we've heard that they then turned 280 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,559 that material over to another lab who did the forensic investigative genetic genealogy. So 281 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:47,880 at some point then first lab fails, sends the evidence back, second lab 282 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,720 succeeds, and then passes it off to we believe a third team who do 283 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:59,079 the investigative genetic genealogy, and at that point we believe that's when Wilmer is 284 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:03,880 identified as a result of that genealogy work. Now they have an offender and 285 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,000 a working DNA profile, and they start doing one to one comparisons, and 286 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:12,599 that's when they discover that the same offender who raped and killed Robin Edwards and 287 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,559 David Nobling is also responsible for the nineteen eighty nine murder of Teresa Howell in 288 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,359 Hampton, Virginia. That's the situation that starts at the Zodiac Club that evening. 289 00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:29,359 So we're frustrated because we'd like to see Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior's DNA 290 00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:34,279 uploaded into the CODIS system. As we understand that the regulations say that unless 291 00:23:34,319 --> 00:23:40,200 you've been convicted of a felony, your profile can't go into CODIS. We 292 00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:44,440 think this is a ridiculous rule and this needs to be changed. Interestingly, 293 00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:48,920 and we discussed this recently with Ashley Spence who was a guest here on Mind 294 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,079 Over Murder. The rules vary from state to state, so we're talking about 295 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:59,799 the Commonwealth of Virginia's regulations regarding CODIS. We actually think that in this situation 296 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:03,480 where we have an offender who is a confirmed serial killer according to FBI, 297 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:08,640 standards. He's killed three people in two different incidents, and we're rock solid 298 00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:14,279 certain on that. We believe that his profile should be put into CODIS, 299 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:18,240 but that has not happened yet. So what law enforcement is saying is they're 300 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,240 doing one to one comparisons. We don't think that's a very efficient way to 301 00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:25,519 go about this, but it's all we've got right now until we change those 302 00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:30,519 regulations. A great, excellent question from Lauren. You're listening to Mind over 303 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:40,400 Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back 304 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,640 here at mindover Murder. Moving on to other types of evidence. I think 305 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,839 this is an interesting question too. This comes from Bell, who says, 306 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,319 I've heard nothing about fingerprint evidence in any of these cases. That seems strange 307 00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:57,880 to me. What do we know about fingerprint evidence and its use or non 308 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,640 use in this case? Well, this bill that would ask the question isn't 309 00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:07,880 Bill Thomas. No, not Bill Thomas. I'm not an expert on all 310 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,440 things fingerprints, but I can tell you what I know. In Kathy and 311 00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:15,640 Becky's crime scene, which I know a bit more detail about, there are 312 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:21,920 at least one hundred and fifty partial and full prints taken from Kathy and Becky's 313 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,960 crime scene, primarily from the car. You have to think about. Kathy's 314 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,240 Honda or any vehicle is often a good source of fingerprint evidence because of the 315 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,640 shiny metal surfaces and also interior surfaces in the car. So I know there 316 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,839 are fingerprints, definitely in Kathy and Becky's case. I'm sure the other vehicles 317 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:48,079 would have been fingerprinted at the time, and I know there were fingerprint cards 318 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,039 that were created because there were some complaints about the fact that they were sloppily 319 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,839 handled from some of the other families. So there are fingerprints and there is 320 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,519 fingerprint evidence. I don't I don't know if there are fingerprints from Ellen Wade 321 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:07,720 Wilmer Senior or not, because remember, as law enforcements pointed out, he's 322 00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:11,759 never arrested for a felony. He may have been arrested for some misdemeanors. 323 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,640 Fingerprints are a little bit of an open issue because you'd have to have an 324 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,000 offender's fingerprints to compare against the fingerprint evidence in the various crime scenes and the 325 00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:29,960 Parkway murders. Let's go ahead and move to possible linkage between one of our 326 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:36,480 pet suspects and Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior, which Carla asked. Carla asks, 327 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,559 can you please tell us something about the possible link between Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior 328 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,279 and Ron Little. We're still looking into this now. Remember Ron Little if 329 00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:52,440 you're not familiar with him, is the chapter and verse. Yeah, we'll 330 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,119 do the short version. Here is an odd ball who has been linked to 331 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:02,480 a number of the Colonial Parkway murders. He acts placed himself into the middle 332 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,720 of the Colonial Parkway murders investigation before being deported back to his native New Zealand 333 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:12,799 in nineteen eighty nine. And of course he's the one who purchased Liberty Security 334 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:21,519 later called Advanced Security in the late nineteen eighties. Ultimately, he was deported 335 00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:26,359 back to New Zealand and he died a couple of years ago. Interestingly, 336 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,079 his family has reached out to us as a result of the Mind of a 337 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:36,039 Murder podcast and ended up sending me evidence which I passed along to the FBI. 338 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,279 So it's been a very interesting dynamic out of nowhere to hear from the 339 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,160 family of Ron Little. And they told me at the time that he was 340 00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,440 quite ill and he passed away from our recurrence of cancer. This two years 341 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:55,279 ago, I guess now we've been trying to look at are there any intersections 342 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:02,519 between suspects. Now we know that Allan Wade will is linked to the Robin 343 00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:07,480 Edwards and David Nobbling murder as well as the Teresa Howell murder. We believe 344 00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:11,880 that he met Teresa Howell at the Zodiac Club or Club Zodiac in Hampton, 345 00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:17,079 and it's a possibility that he may have waited outside and looked for someone that 346 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:19,799 was inebriated, and so he may have attacked her as a result of seeing 347 00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:23,839 her outside the club. One of the things that's very curious is we're getting 348 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:30,359 information that Ron Little appears to have been a regular at the Zodiac as well 349 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,359 other suspects whose names have been mentioned over the years. And we typically will 350 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:41,519 not mention living suspects because we're not here to trash anyone's reputation. A number 351 00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:45,039 of people whose names have been mentioned in connection with the Colonial Parkway murders seem 352 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:51,440 to be regulars at the Club Zodiac, which is very odd, so that 353 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,920 we almost feel like it's still early going and we're asking people a lot of 354 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,480 questions. I'm actually going to be talking to more people in the next couple 355 00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:04,039 of weeks about this. There almost seems like there's a nexus around this club. 356 00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:07,720 So we've got the Ivory Horse if I have the name, and then 357 00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:14,079 next door is an after hours club members only. I think there was a 358 00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:19,559 certain degree of lax enforcement of what constituted a member was the place where you 359 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:26,319 could be consuming alcohol till well passed closing time at regular bars, The Ivory 360 00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,759 Horse, and then the next door club, which is Club Zodiac could be 361 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:36,960 a situation where you could go from one bar then to the after hours club 362 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,119 and you could be there at four or five in the morning. As I 363 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,359 understand it, really interesting. We're going to be trying to explore this more 364 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:47,559 about how many of these people whose names have been mentioned in connection with this 365 00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:52,160 series of murders seem to also be connected to the Zodiac. Good question here 366 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,440 from Connie, but I'm not sure if we know the answer to this one, 367 00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:00,240 but let's throw it out there anyway. Did the same polygraph who examined 368 00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:06,359 Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior ad Minister of the test or tests to the National 369 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,759 Park Service rangers who were questioned when Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski Keith Call and 370 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:15,240 Cassandra Haley were murdered. It's a real good question, and man, would 371 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,440 I like to know the answer. I don't know the answer. We do 372 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:25,680 know who the poligrapher was, Yes, who gave the test in the Alan 373 00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:30,799 Wade Wilmer Senior example, I don't know. It makes me want to ask, 374 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,400 so we'll see if we can get an answer on that one. So 375 00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:40,000 with regard to the park rangers, again from Connie, have the FBI or 376 00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:45,440 any other law enforcement agency or requested DNA samples from those same park rangers once 377 00:30:45,559 --> 00:30:52,440 DNA testing became more advanced, want to say they have not, because I 378 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,440 am aware of at least one of those park rangers has been very resistant to 379 00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:03,559 providing his DNA, which I personally find infuriating. Years ago, when the 380 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:10,680 FBI approached me and my brothers Richard and Jack, the surviving members of my 381 00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:15,680 family, for our DNA samples, we willingly gave them to the FBI, 382 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,799 and they came to our respective offices and collected our DNA. I actually think, 383 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,119 and forgive me, I'm the brother of a murder victim. Here, 384 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,440 I'm not a lawyer, and I'm certainly not law enforcement I actually think you 385 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:32,640 should be required to give your DNA if you're going to work in law enforcement, 386 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,880 just for clearance purposes, just to avoid confusion. The fact that a 387 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:45,599 National Park Service ranger would resist giving his or her DNA in a murder investigation, 388 00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:48,119 I actually find that infuriating. I think they should be required to give 389 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,559 their DNA. Now it just comes with the territory. In the same way, 390 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:56,640 I would be very surprised that if law enforcement people aren't required to give 391 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,880 their fingerprints, same thing. DNA is just a genetic fingerprint, is all 392 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,839 it is. But I know for a fact at least one of those now 393 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,400 retired National Park Service rangers is completely offended that they would ask him for his 394 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,640 DNA, And my attitudes really just cough it up and move on. You 395 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:20,079 didn't kill anybody. The only reason you'd have a concern about that is if 396 00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:24,160 you did. I don't know why law enforcement can't be just required to provide 397 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,119 their DNA. That's a full stop move on. Yeah, I agree, 398 00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:32,480 I agree hundred percent. Celeste asked, I'd be very curious to know if 399 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,920 Alan Wade Wilmer kept souvenirs of his killings. Based on what you know, 400 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:43,160 about murder and what you know about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. Do you think 401 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,920 he's the type to keep souvenirs. I don't think I know Wilmer well enough 402 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,119 to say that. I know that this is something that law enforcement has always 403 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,519 been looking for in the Colonial Parkway murders, and they've been very specific. 404 00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:01,799 I won't be very pacific about what they were looking for, but I know 405 00:33:02,279 --> 00:33:08,160 they were looking for souvenirs. Over the years, profilers and investigators have talked 406 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:14,720 to us about collectors. Is one of the expressions they use people to collect 407 00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:20,079 souvenirs, And sometimes it's hard to understand the mentality of someone like this, 408 00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:24,039 but I think this is a way of hanging on to some small token of 409 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:30,599 an item that belonged to or was there or used as part of the murder, 410 00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:34,160 and this allows them to revisit that. So I don't know Wilma well 411 00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:37,279 enough to know if he's that kind of collector. I do know that the 412 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,960 law enforcement agencies have been looking for evidence like that could have been taken from 413 00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:47,039 the crime scenes in the Colonial Parkway murders. Yeah, I agree with your 414 00:33:47,079 --> 00:33:51,519 assessment on that Bill. I don't think we have enough information, and I 415 00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:53,920 would go more into that if my voice weren't ready to give out. Jen 416 00:33:54,119 --> 00:34:00,759 asks, what are your honest opinions and thoughts about the Parkway adjacent cases? 417 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,119 I would love to know more about those. And I'm thinking when she says 418 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,920 parkway adjacent, she's referring to Laurie and Powell and Brian Pettinger. I hope 419 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,760 I'm not presuming too much by saying that, but I'm pretty sure that's what 420 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,800 she means, because that's what I've been calling them for years. By the 421 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:22,440 way, when we say adjacent, we don't mean to have any value judgment 422 00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:27,639 attached right that. All we're saying is these cases took place around the same 423 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,360 time and in the same locations as the Colonial Parkway murders. They're not double 424 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,119 homicides. They certainly happened nearby and right at the same time. As a 425 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:43,559 matter of fact, Brian pett Drew and Laurie and Powell murders actually bracket the 426 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:49,719 disappearance of Keith Callin Cassandra Haley, if I'm not mistaken, they do absolutely, 427 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,280 And we talk about Parkway adjacent cases doesn't mean exactly what Bill just said. 428 00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:58,880 Anything that is similar to or could be related to the parkway. To 429 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,159 be perfectly honest, Jen, now that I've taken a look at some of 430 00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:07,360 the other cases from this area, I think that we may have more parkway 431 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,679 adjacent cases than we previously used to. I do think Lorian Powell and Brian 432 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,480 Pettnger. Do you think that it is entirely possible Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior is 433 00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:23,679 responsible for those But I think that we may need to expand our definition of 434 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:30,400 parkway adjacent in the future because I think that there are more that he might 435 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,639 be responsible for. One thing that makes me very curious is that Lorient Powell 436 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,800 and Brian Pattinger both worked for Liberty Security, so they worked out with Ron 437 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:44,440 Little. I think there's a possibility that Ron Little may have used the Colonial 438 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,920 Parkway murders or cover because if he knew that Brian Pettinger and Lorient Powell, 439 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,239 these young people that had worked for Liberty Security, knew something about questionable behavior 440 00:35:54,519 --> 00:36:00,320 by the owners of Liberty Security, he might have used the fact that these 441 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,800 other murders were going on at the same time. And remember we talked about 442 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,719 this a minute ago. He very much inserted himself in a very public Way 443 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,679 in the Colonial Parkway murders, and I think he may have been trying to 444 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:15,800 obscure his original intent. Now I'm talking about Little in killing those young people 445 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,000 that worked with him at Liberty Security, and they might have had information about 446 00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:23,920 wrongdoing at Liberty Security, whether it was cheating on their taxes or cheating their 447 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:30,360 clients, or theft or drug dealing or any number of other things that I 448 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,360 think Little was into. I think that seems more likely to me than anything. 449 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,280 One other thing I should mention is that Teresa Howell now is linked to 450 00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:45,320 the Colonial Parkway murders, and I don't know if we continue to use that 451 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,960 word adjacent or not. I know some people have gotten very frustrated lately because 452 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,639 they point something out which I understand, which is that the Colonial Parkway murders. 453 00:36:54,719 --> 00:37:00,800 The name itself is confusing because not all of these double homicide it's happened 454 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,960 on the Colonial Parkway. I didn't make up the term. It was a 455 00:37:05,039 --> 00:37:08,760 media creation from back in the eighties. Certainly, there was a very strong 456 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:14,280 possibility, and I think there's an even greater one now that these murders are 457 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,599 linked. Alan Wade Wilmer could be responsible for all of the Colonial Parkway murders 458 00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:24,679 and additional murders like Teresa Howells. We may have a very serious situation here 459 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:30,000 where we have a serial killer and then we have other people who are taking 460 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:35,039 advantage of the fact that there's a serial killer at work in the Tidewater area 461 00:37:35,039 --> 00:37:39,320 of Virginia from nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine and likely starting before and 462 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:45,440 ending well after the murders we think of as the Colonial Parkway murders. I 463 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,840 get the people are frustrated. I think for clarity's sake, I think it 464 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,880 makes more sense to continue referring to these murders by the name they are known 465 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,400 as. And this is one of the reasons why I was so frustrated with 466 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,960 the FBI and the Virginia State, least for suddenly declaring that we're going to 467 00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:07,119 call the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling the Isle of White Murders, 468 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,760 which no one's ever called them that, So let's not make up new names 469 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,599 while we're at it. That just adds to the confusion. Yeah, agreed, 470 00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:19,119 And I think we need to do maybe whole entire or half of an 471 00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:24,079 episode just based on this sudden flip decision that they've made. Let's completely divorce 472 00:38:24,159 --> 00:38:29,119 it from the Colonial Parkway murders and call it something else. I don't understand 473 00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:31,800 it, or rather, I'm sorry. I have a theory about why that 474 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,599 might be, but I'm not willing to antagonize our friends at the FBI and 475 00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:39,039 the VSP, who are definitely listening to us right now. Good evening, 476 00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:43,239 analysts, Thank you for listening. Yes, thank you all for listening. 477 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,599 We appreciate it. We actually have some questions that fall under the anything part 478 00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:53,920 of ask us anything, because they are not related to specifically, but they 479 00:38:53,960 --> 00:39:00,719 are related to crime and various other things. Let's start with one, Annie, 480 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,480 this is specifically for you, Bill, She says, from one author 481 00:39:05,519 --> 00:39:08,920 to another, When is this book of yours coming out? With the developments 482 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,880 in the cases? Are you waiting to see if there is a conclusion before 483 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,000 you declare it done. I'm waiting until there's a conclusion before I declare it 484 00:39:17,039 --> 00:39:21,960 done. The other thing is, there's been so much information just flooding us 485 00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:24,159 that it's going to take me a while to sort all this out. So 486 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:30,599 that's my excuse for not having produced a book, Considering that you've been pretty 487 00:39:30,679 --> 00:39:36,559 much perennially busy since January eighth. I don't imagine that there would be a 488 00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:38,480 lot of time to write in there either, which, also, by the 489 00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:43,159 way, is my excuse for not having a book done either. I am 490 00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:46,239 a teacher. I have no time for such things and hardly any voice left. 491 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,639 And hardly any voice left. Annie asked me, in particular, what 492 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,039 is my favorite fictional crime movie and why. It's Silence of the Lambs. 493 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,920 Oh, that's a great one. I think I've only scene Silence of the 494 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,880 Lambs once all the way through it. It's amazing, and it came on 495 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,800 my radar in a college film class. I had never seen it. But 496 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:15,239 as soon as I watched that opening shot of Jodi Foster pulling her way up 497 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,039 the rope ladder on the Yellow Brick Road course, I was sold. I 498 00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:22,280 wanted to be an FBI agent. I wanted to be Jodi Foster. I 499 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,719 wanted to run the Yellow Brick Road you name it, I wanted it. 500 00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:29,760 Yeah, it's got to be Silence of the Lambs for me. Do you 501 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:35,119 have one bell? I think it's probably Zodiac Actually, Okay, the David 502 00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,960 Fincher film, which is great, is great. Some of that stuff gets 503 00:40:39,039 --> 00:40:42,920 dark for me. I know that might be hard to believe, but some 504 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,840 of that stuff's kind of disturbing. And then, of course my wonderful partner 505 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,559 Pamela will often push back when I want to watch something that's true crime related. 506 00:40:51,920 --> 00:41:00,679 We actually started watching this latest season of True Detective with Jody Foster in 507 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,679 that as well, and it's really dark. So I've gotten some pushback from 508 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,480 Pamela on watching that. You can watch that anytime you want, in other 509 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:13,039 words, but not with her in the room. I also like this question 510 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:17,559 that Annie asked, and it's very germane to a terribly tragic case that happened 511 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,880 a week two weeks ago. I think Annie asks, as a woman who 512 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,760 goes running alone, what are some of the recommended items outside of the cell 513 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,760 phone that you would recommend carrying on you. This is something I've given a 514 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,199 lot of thought to recently. Annie, and I am a minimalist runner, 515 00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:37,760 which means I do run with my cell phone and my keys, but that's 516 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:44,079 pretty much it. I have started thinking about whether or not I need to 517 00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:49,039 carry a tactical pen or a foldable baton, or a taser or something like 518 00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:52,360 that. I have not come to any conclusions as to whether or not I'm 519 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,199 going to carry anything with me outside of my keys, which I always carry 520 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:04,000 between my fingers with the pointy end down in case someone bothers me. One 521 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:07,960 of the things that I do recommend. And this sort of circumvents the role 522 00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:10,159 that a lot of women are told, which is that you shouldn't wear earbuds 523 00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:14,840 when you run. I have to have music when I run, otherwise I'm 524 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:20,239 not going to find my rhythm. But my loving boyfriend bought me a pair 525 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,360 of what are called open run bone conduction headphones, and I love these because 526 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,639 they don't go in your ears. They press against your temples and the sound 527 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,800 conducts off the bones in your skull so that you can still hear what is 528 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,480 going on with your ears. I can hear everything that's going on behind me. 529 00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:44,199 I can hear traffic noise, I can hear bicyclists, I can hear 530 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,360 other runners. But I'm still getting the music because it's bouncing off the bones 531 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:52,039 of my skull and I'm hearing it in my head that way. It sounds 532 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:55,119 really weird. But it does sound really weird and not very appealing. No, 533 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,480 it actually honest to goodness. I bought a pair for another friend of 534 00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:02,960 mine who goes running. He loved the quality. He said, this sounds 535 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,599 better than my normal earbuds. It's got the added benefit of you never have 536 00:43:07,679 --> 00:43:12,159 to worry or your air POD's going to slip out of your ears. The 537 00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:15,840 bone conduction ones loop over your ears and press against your temples and so you'll 538 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,679 never lose them. The sound I think is better than anything you would get 539 00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:22,519 off of air pods, and it's great, and it's a way that I 540 00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:27,639 can circumvent the oh you should be running in total silence. No. I 541 00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:30,119 can run with music in, but I can also hear everything that's behind me. 542 00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:35,000 I've been able to hear bicycles approaching, and cars and various other things. 543 00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:38,519 So I'd recommend that for any woman who wants to run but also needs 544 00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:44,079 to have music. I have ones called Open Run by Shock and they are 545 00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:46,960 excellent, best money that you can invest in yourself as a runner. And 546 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,079 then we're going to finish up our ask us anythings with two questions from Julie. 547 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,519 Julie asks Bill, what's your go to album? When you're overwhelmed? 548 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:07,840 Boy, I'm looking at these thousands of LPs in my library here, there's 549 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,159 a lot. I'm a music fan through and through. I don't know if 550 00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:16,719 there's a go to for when I'm feeling overwhelmed. One of my favorite rock 551 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:23,480 bands is a Scottish band called Delementrey, who had a number of big hits 552 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:29,280 in the nineteen ninety is always the last to know, which is how I 553 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:37,039 fail about the FBI most of the time. That's one that comes to mine. 554 00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:43,000 There's an album of there called Change Everything, which is also appropriate that 555 00:44:43,079 --> 00:44:46,960 came out I think in nineteen ninety four that I'm particularly fond of. But 556 00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:52,039 there's a lot. I'm a music person through and through, and of course 557 00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:54,320 many and I worked in the music industry for a number of years. I 558 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,440 think I have a lot of favorites. I don't know. Elementary came to 559 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,360 mind when I was answering the question anyway, okay, and she also asked 560 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:07,079 me, do I have a favorite genre of music? And why it's got 561 00:45:07,079 --> 00:45:12,320 to be the eighties? Baby, me too. I'm an eighties I'm an 562 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,679 eighties child. I grew up with all of the hits of the eighties blasting 563 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:21,440 through my veins and on the stereo and at my mother's step aerobics class, 564 00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:24,679 and so it's the eighties always. That's my that's my fun music. That's 565 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,880 when I'm on my drive home because I've got a thirty minute commute each way 566 00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:34,039 every day and I need to decompress a little bit. You got to turn 567 00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:37,920 on Journey and belt out a little don't stop believing or actually, Bill, 568 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,119 I'm going to ask you. It's an ask us anything, right, I'm 569 00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:45,719 gonna ask you a question. What is your best belt of If you're going 570 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,280 to sing something and you're gonna do it really loud, maybe off key? 571 00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,760 What is your favorite beltable tune? Hmmm? I got to think about that. 572 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,199 I don't know if I know the answer to that one off the top 573 00:45:55,239 --> 00:46:00,000 of my Okay, okay, so anything you find yourself singing out loud, 574 00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:05,119 maybe just every time you hear it on the radio. Oh sure. Our 575 00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:08,119 go to is also music from the eighties, Okay. For us, it's 576 00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:16,159 more alternative. So it's Elvis Costello, It's the Pretenders. Okay, it's 577 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:22,840 rock and pop from that era. I'm more of a guitar guy. Pamela, 578 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,320 my partner, is much more of a synth girl. She likes Florider 579 00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:30,039 and Depeche Mode and stuff like that. I like that stuff too, but 580 00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:32,800 I'm a bit more of a rocker, and I'd be much more likely to 581 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,920 put on the clash Idol. But then Billy Idol, for example, that's 582 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:45,079 a nice intersection of synthi stuff and guitar. Steve Stevens is Billy Idol's longtime 583 00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:49,840 guitar player. That stuff's a big favorite. Nice. That is going to 584 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,480 wrap it up for this episode of Ask Us Anything, Colonial Parkway Murders and 585 00:46:54,559 --> 00:47:00,719 assorted other topics edition. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you 586 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:15,480 next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog 587 00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:21,440 Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art 588 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,599 is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. Mind Over 589 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:30,880 Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. You can follow us on 590 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,880 Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our page on the 591 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,760 Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on 592 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,719 Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder. No