You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together
with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a
researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social
media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly
and I'm Bill Thomas. And I'm rasping just a little bit today because I've
had a long day and I'm sick, So please excuse the rasp in my
throat. Hopefully it just reminds you of Catherine Hepburn. By the time everyone
hears this, you'll be one hundred percent healthy. I certainly hope so.
In the meantime, though, do I sound like Katherine Hepburn, like even
the littlest bit. Absolutely, that was the first thing that came to mind.
Yeah, that's the right answer. Or more, am I doing a
Lauren Bacall kind of thing? Tulula bank had any of any of the old
any of the old starlets, I'm fine with. Some of our younger listeners
may be saying, Tallula, who wait, who's Lauren Bacall? What?
To me? T Lula Bankhead is probably a borderline obscure Hollywood reference to start
with. Yeah, you're talking to a film teacher after all. Yeah.
I've been trying for years to come up with actresses with raspy voices that I
can compare myself to, and it's those three pretty much. Since so many
people had stage names back then, I can't help but think, is Tulula
Bankhead really her real name? Oh, it would have to be a stage
name. I'm sure if we looked it up, probably we would find it's
like Jane Smith or something like that. Yeah, seriously, you know what
Carrie Grant's original name was, right, I do, but now I've forgotten
it? What is it? Archie Leech? Yeah? I remember? It
was just really a terrible Bland name, Carrie Grant. That's a good movie
star name. It is a good movie star name. And I wish I
had a nice movie star face and voice and paycheck to go along with these
things. Alas, all I can do is sound like a cheap imitation.
Catherine Hepburn, you sound better than that. So what are we going to
talk about today, Kristin Dilly. We're gonna go ahead and run an episode
of Ask Us Anything, because, as always, we have a number of
people who have reached out and said, hey, I've got a question about
and our answer for that is we have an answer, or we're going to
try to have an answer. There have been fantastic questions in great discussion on
our mind over murder and especially the Colonial Parkway murders facebook page. Lots of
questions, lots of opinion, and we welcome it all. There have been
a few odd references which we've actually deleted. I don't know why one person
in particular seems obsessed with people having chips inserted in their bodies, but that
kind of thing that just goes away. I'm sorry, I don't know what
you're rambling about, but we're going to take it out off the page.
We are very interested though, in people's opinions about the Colonial Parkway murders,
the status of the investigation, all of that stuff is of great interest to
our audience, and based on the volume of questions, it seems like there's
a lot of interest. Absolutely, And if you are one of those weird
bought or troll accounts that keeps posting weird random videos in our comments, please
stop. It's so obnoxious and all we're going to do is block you.
Yeah, one after another. Oh Man to go ahead and kick it off
with the question from Jessica, which I think is a really excellent one.
Jessica asks how long before the Colonial Parkway murders does law enforcement think Alan Wade
Wilmer Senior was active. My mom grew up in the area and she remembers
in the late nineteen seventies being fearful of going onto the parkway after dark.
She does not remember any particular instance, but her and her friends know it
wasn't safe after dark. I wonder if he was active in the nineteen seventies,
was he maybe harassing people back then as well? Well. There's two
parts to the answer. I think, first of all, in terms of
the Colonial Parkway. So this is in the Tidewater area of Virginia where the
four double homicides that we call the Colonial Parkway murders occurred. The earliest report
we have as family members seems to be from nineteen eighty two. We have
people reporting into us that they were harassed by a man who is clearly Alan
Wade Wilmer senior. It's a short, muscular man and wearing almost like mechanics
clothes, like a jumpsuit. Harassing, one could even say, attacking a
couple near the Yorktown Memorial. That seems to be around nineteen eighty two is
the first report that we've heard about. Now I'm sure law enforcement has heard
about additional reports, although again I find myself so frustrated that there are so
many of these reports about people couples being harassed on the Colonial Parkway and in
Yorktown and in surrounding areas. It's still amazing to me that law enforcement,
specifically the FBI and the National Park Service, we're not able to put this
together, that these are all the same man Wilmer, attacking, harassing,
however you want to put it, but in many cases terrifying these young couples.
I think as far back as eighty two is what we have for reports.
Now there has been discussion, but I want to make it clear here
this is our opinion, not necessarily law enforcement's opinion. But there have been
discussions in Lancaster County, especially in the last few months since Wilmer was identified
as a serial killer and as the murderer of Robin Edwards and David Nobling,
as well as Teresa Howell, there have been discussions about whether or not Wilmer
may have been involved in a nineteen seventy six murder of a couple, the
Rogers family, in Kilmarnock, Virginia, which is right nearby. This murder
involves an airline pilot, Dale Rogers and his wife Charlotte, who had renovated
a beautiful home on the water and are considered not from there. They are
outsiders, if you will. They were shotgunned to death at their home in
what appear to be a robbery. But the odd thing is they live literally
right down the road. It's described to me as a few acres away from
where the Wilmers were living at the time. So it's a very strange coincidence
and one of the things I've said about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior and perhaps other
members of his family is they seem to be surrounded by unsolved murders. There
are a lot of unsolved murders for a beautiful rural area like Lancaster County to
have this many unsolved murders as far back as the seventies. By my calculation,
in nineteen seventy six, Alan Wade Wilmer would have been about twenty two
years old and his older brother Keith would have been a couple of years older.
So they are certainly demographically close enough in age to be young adults.
And the weird thing is they are right down the street road is probably a
better way to put that, from the site where the Rogers family were gunned
down. We're not saying it's definitive, but when you're looking back at the
Mary Harding case from nineteen eighty five, you actually have to roll the clock
further back to look at some of these other unsolved murders in the area and
think to yourself where the Wilmer's involved here. Agreed, if you're surrounded by
unsolved murders, I think that definitely bears asking the question is their correlation here
or is their causation here? Next question comes from Patricia. This is very
interesting, I think she asks, do you think that Wilmer might possibly have
been protected, so to speak, by local law enforcement? Can you give
us any details about what you have heard about the Wilmer brothers or his family
in general. I don't want to go too far here. We've heard from
a number of people that have known the Wilmers for years. We've mentioned our
new friends from Lancaster County who've reached out to us to say I went to
school with the Wilmers, or I lived down the road from the Wilmers,
and they've had a number of observations, particularly about the three brothers. This
would be Keith Wilmer, Alan Wilmer, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, the middle
brother, and their younger brother, Timothy. The two younger brothers, Alan
and Timothy are both dead, and only Keith Wilmer, the oldest of the
three, now Keiths in his seventies. The characterizations that we've heard are not
particularly positive. There seems to be in that generation, specifically a pensiant for
violence and a suspicion of being involved in a number of different rapes and murders
over the years. That doesn't mean that all three brothers are guilty of anything,
although we know definitively that Alan Wade Wilmer Senior is a serial killer and
a rapist, and of course, he died in twenty seventeen. Interestingly,
his brother Timothy, the youngest of the three, died almost a year to
the day after his brother Allan, under circumstances that we are still researching.
It appears that he may have died in an automobile accident and that he may
have been living over in Newport News. He had lived in Mechanicsville, which
is over near Richmond, for a number of years, but in the last
part of his life he seems to have been living in the Newport News area,
which puts him in the Tidewater area. Yes, it does. Another
interesting question from Melanie who asks has law enforcement ever been able to track down
Wilmer's ald truck or other previous vehicles. There was definitely a white van stocking
folks on the park way back then. Did Wilmer own a white van?
To our knowledge, we don't know that for a fact. We do know
that Alan Wade Wilmer did draw. I have a number of different vehicles,
and even hung out at one point at a wrecking yard a junkyard with a
number of friends. They used to sit there and drink beer and tell stories.
And we actually don't know where the green truck is. This is the
truck that's featured so prominently in the materials from the FBI and the Virginia State
Police. We've heard about local folks who've purchased vehicles from Alan Wade Wilmer Sor,
including a pearl colored Chevrolet pickup truck. I don't know where the green
truck that shows up so much in these wanted posters and other vehicles. I
don't know where they all ended up. It appears that he may have sold
them, or they may have been scrapped. I can't help but think all
those times that he was hanging out at that junkyard, if that's perhaps where
they ought to be looking for the nineteen sixty six Dodge, the blue green
truck that we've seen so much in the materials that were distributed to the press.
This one's interesting. This question comes from Emmy Lou who asks have any
character witnesses come forward with regard to Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior. Well, a
number of people have come forward to law enforcement and to the families, our
families. I wouldn't say too many people have much good to say about Alan
Wilmer Senior at all. Some of the people that have known him for years
have said that he could be shy and withdrawn and very quiet with people that
he didn't know. Well. It certainly sounds like he had a very rough
upbringing. We've heard a lot about the fact that these three men, Keith,
Allen, and Timothy, their father was particularly cruel to the sons,
especially Allan. For some reason, we don't really know what that's about.
The two older boys, Keith and Alan ended up working on the water as
watermen very young, that is, when they were teenagers, and then their
youngest brother, Timothy, seems to have escaped some of that really hardcore manual
labor that was expected of the three boys that seemed to be mostly focused on
Keith and Alan. Very interesting that people that have known the family for years
have pointed out that their father was extremely rough, particularly on the two older
boys, and for some reason, his cruelty, and that's the word they
used, seemed to be directed at Allan, Keith was the oldest, he
was the favorite, and then tim or Timothy was the youngest, and he
was the baby, and he got away with the most. I think about
my own family, where I was the second oldest, we felt like the
younger kids in my family, my younger brother Jack and our younger sister Kathy,
we felt like they had it a lot easier than we had. Not
that my parents were hard on us, just in terms of I don't know,
mowen lawns and doing chores and that sort of thing. The two older
boys, myself from a brother Richard, we felt like we got hit with
more of the brunt of that. And then later on, and this was
a subject of some consternation, we felt like that Jack and Cathy got away
with a lot more than we ever had, because of course we paved the
way. So some of that dynamic maybe happening in the Wilmer family as well.
Keith is the favorite, he's the oldest, Alan for some reason is
the black sheep, and he's very poorly treated. And I don't mean to
make light of that. As I understand it, it was not easy for
him. And then Timothy, the youngest, he skates by being the baby.
Related to that is a comment from Jim, who says, I would
be interested in hearing stories about Wilmer from people who knew or worked with him.
What was he like as a friend, what was he like to work
for, etc. Bill. Have you received any intel over the last couple
of weeks that would shed any light on that particular question. Yes, some.
Now. I don't want to make it sound like I'm an expert on
all things Wilmer. All I can do is reflect what people are telling us.
But a number of people have reached out to us. One person had
some very interesting things to say. They had worked for Alan Wade Wilmer Senior
when he ran his tree business, so he did tree cutting, clearing of
land, and they had said that they worked directly for him. Interestingly,
they made a couple of observations about the fact that they were actually physically afraid
of Wilmer. Now, Wilmer's kind of shortened stature, but he's very powerfully
built, and this guy who worked for him said that even though he probably
had six inches on him in terms of height or reach, he said he
absolutely would not have wanted to take him on in a physical altercation. Because
he was so incredibly strong and agile. He would do things like climb up
a tree with just a chainsaw and no safety equipment. But he was so
physically strong. He could clamber up a tree with a chainsaw slung over his
shoulder and get up to the top of the tree or wherever they were trimming,
start up the chainsaw, and so this was dangerous. Wow. And
yeah, Wilmer had the confidence and the physicality that he would just clamber directly
up a tree. This guy described him as almost being like a monkey like
being, having that kind of physical strength, and then he'd get up there
and he'd trim whatever branches they were lopping off. He also said some other
very interesting things. He said that Wilmer preferred to do businessing in cash,
which we've heard from a variety of people, some of whom hired him to
do tree care and clear cutting that kind of thing. Wilmer always preferred to
be paid in cash, and that he used to carry five thousand dollars in
cash and a bag in the truck, whatever truck he was driving that day,
and a handgun, which I found very interesting. I do too.
Five grand was the usual amount of cash in this bag which he would use
to pay bills and also to collect funds that would do him. And then
he always had a loaded handgun in the cab of whatever truck he was driving.
The implication to me was that this was a guy who was not to
be messed with. He could take care of himself physically, and then on
top of that, he was always carrying a loaded revolver. I found that
very striking. I do as well. My parents just had some tree work
done over at their house. They are surrounded by a lot of very tall
trees, and my stepdad took great delight the other day in showing me pictures
that he had taken of one of these guys was doing the tree work,
climbing way up to the top of it had to be at least one hundred
feet high of this tree, and was just happily up there sewing away trimming
branches. I think you have to be a certain type of fearless to be
willing to embark on that kind of work, So that actually doesn't surprise me
all that much. Very interesting. The next question comes from Kim. She
asks, do you know if any of Wilmer's family, wife, brother,
or kids have spoken to law enforcement since the January announcement. If so,
were they happy to assist or did they not want to talk? Have you
been privy to any conversations. Have you tried to speak to their family directly?
I know the family has spoken to law enforcement several times, and law
enforcement wmen include the FBI, the Virginia State Police, and probably the Lancaster
Police Department as well. My understanding is that the family has been cooperative and
have tried to provide assistance. You can imagine this has to be quite a
shock to the family, and even issued a statement saying this man they're referring
to Alan Wade Wilmer, this is not the man that we knew. I
think it's quite possible. Did this guy live the double life? At one
point he was married about six years from his early twenties to his late twenties,
and he had two kids, and then was divorced, and then he
never remarried, although he he had have some relationships with women over the years,
but he I think was capable of having this kind of duality where he
had a career as a waterman. He had this business doing the tree service,
so he's out fishing crabbing, oystering. He also works on the land
at particularly the tree maintenance, and at the same time there's this really dark
side of him. Obviously, he's confirmed to have been a serial killer and
a rapist, and I believe strongly that if the FBI and the Virginia State
Police work this case hard, and I hope they are, I think he
will be identified as the offender in other unsolved rapes and murders in Virginia and
perhaps elsewhere. There's at least two sides to this man. The guy who's
out there working perhaps a kind of a lonely existence, but he's out there
making a living, and then at the same time there's this incredibly dark,
frightening side of him as well. The reports that we've got are from people
that have known the family and known Wilmer in particular for a number of years.
But the information that we're getting back from law enforcement is that the family
are doing their best to cooperate with the various agencies answer questions that I know.
They've provided what they had in terms of letters, photographs, anything that
was remaining in the house. The son lived in the house at the time
of the FBI Virginia State Police raids in early January. But that was the
house that Wilmer Senior had lived in previously, which is I think one of
the key places that law enforcement wanted to search. As I understand it,
the family's done everything they can to cooperate. Next questions from Lauren, I
know they haven't loaded Wilmer Senior's DNA in Takotis, but is there any chance
they've loaded his profile to one of the DNA search sites used for genetic genealogy
or was it a straight lab test off his known sample that identified how law
enforcement hasn't explained all of this to us, But I think it's important to
go back over how we believe this identification came together, and that is that
it's probably over a year ago now. The Virginia State Police and the Virginia
Department of Forensic Science applied for and received as SAKE Grant SAKI Grant Sexual Assault
Kit Initiative Grant. These are designed to provide funding for outside labs to assist
in testing rape kits and seeking identification of offenders. In the Robin Edwards David
Nobling example, the tests were conducted on the rape kit from Robin Edwards,
which could have indicated, as we've known, a potential offender in that case,
and this is something that the Edwards and Nobling families have been lobbying for
several years and we've certainly supported them in this regard. After we saw the
potential of the Golden State killer case, when the offender there, Joseph DiAngelo,
was identified as a result of using forensic investigative genetic genealogy, we saw
that there could be an opportunity within the Colonial Parkway murders to identify an offender
or offenders. The evidence was sent out to one DNA lab they were unsuccessful.
This would be an independent lab, and then a second attempt was made
as part of this Sake grant, and an outside lab was successful in creating
a DNA profile. We believe based on what we've heard that they then turned
that material over to another lab who did the forensic investigative genetic genealogy. So
at some point then first lab fails, sends the evidence back, second lab
succeeds, and then passes it off to we believe a third team who do
the investigative genetic genealogy, and at that point we believe that's when Wilmer is
identified as a result of that genealogy work. Now they have an offender and
a working DNA profile, and they start doing one to one comparisons, and
that's when they discover that the same offender who raped and killed Robin Edwards and
David Nobling is also responsible for the nineteen eighty nine murder of Teresa Howell in
Hampton, Virginia. That's the situation that starts at the Zodiac Club that evening.
So we're frustrated because we'd like to see Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior's DNA
uploaded into the CODIS system. As we understand that the regulations say that unless
you've been convicted of a felony, your profile can't go into CODIS. We
think this is a ridiculous rule and this needs to be changed. Interestingly,
and we discussed this recently with Ashley Spence who was a guest here on Mind
Over Murder. The rules vary from state to state, so we're talking about
the Commonwealth of Virginia's regulations regarding CODIS. We actually think that in this situation
where we have an offender who is a confirmed serial killer according to FBI,
standards. He's killed three people in two different incidents, and we're rock solid
certain on that. We believe that his profile should be put into CODIS,
but that has not happened yet. So what law enforcement is saying is they're
doing one to one comparisons. We don't think that's a very efficient way to
go about this, but it's all we've got right now until we change those
regulations. A great, excellent question from Lauren. You're listening to Mind over
Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back
here at mindover Murder. Moving on to other types of evidence. I think
this is an interesting question too. This comes from Bell, who says,
I've heard nothing about fingerprint evidence in any of these cases. That seems strange
to me. What do we know about fingerprint evidence and its use or non
use in this case? Well, this bill that would ask the question isn't
Bill Thomas. No, not Bill Thomas. I'm not an expert on all
things fingerprints, but I can tell you what I know. In Kathy and
Becky's crime scene, which I know a bit more detail about, there are
at least one hundred and fifty partial and full prints taken from Kathy and Becky's
crime scene, primarily from the car. You have to think about. Kathy's
Honda or any vehicle is often a good source of fingerprint evidence because of the
shiny metal surfaces and also interior surfaces in the car. So I know there
are fingerprints, definitely in Kathy and Becky's case. I'm sure the other vehicles
would have been fingerprinted at the time, and I know there were fingerprint cards
that were created because there were some complaints about the fact that they were sloppily
handled from some of the other families. So there are fingerprints and there is
fingerprint evidence. I don't I don't know if there are fingerprints from Ellen Wade
Wilmer Senior or not, because remember, as law enforcements pointed out, he's
never arrested for a felony. He may have been arrested for some misdemeanors.
Fingerprints are a little bit of an open issue because you'd have to have an
offender's fingerprints to compare against the fingerprint evidence in the various crime scenes and the
Parkway murders. Let's go ahead and move to possible linkage between one of our
pet suspects and Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior, which Carla asked. Carla asks,
can you please tell us something about the possible link between Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior
and Ron Little. We're still looking into this now. Remember Ron Little if
you're not familiar with him, is the chapter and verse. Yeah, we'll
do the short version. Here is an odd ball who has been linked to
a number of the Colonial Parkway murders. He acts placed himself into the middle
of the Colonial Parkway murders investigation before being deported back to his native New Zealand
in nineteen eighty nine. And of course he's the one who purchased Liberty Security
later called Advanced Security in the late nineteen eighties. Ultimately, he was deported
back to New Zealand and he died a couple of years ago. Interestingly,
his family has reached out to us as a result of the Mind of a
Murder podcast and ended up sending me evidence which I passed along to the FBI.
So it's been a very interesting dynamic out of nowhere to hear from the
family of Ron Little. And they told me at the time that he was
quite ill and he passed away from our recurrence of cancer. This two years
ago, I guess now we've been trying to look at are there any intersections
between suspects. Now we know that Allan Wade will is linked to the Robin
Edwards and David Nobbling murder as well as the Teresa Howell murder. We believe
that he met Teresa Howell at the Zodiac Club or Club Zodiac in Hampton,
and it's a possibility that he may have waited outside and looked for someone that
was inebriated, and so he may have attacked her as a result of seeing
her outside the club. One of the things that's very curious is we're getting
information that Ron Little appears to have been a regular at the Zodiac as well
other suspects whose names have been mentioned over the years. And we typically will
not mention living suspects because we're not here to trash anyone's reputation. A number
of people whose names have been mentioned in connection with the Colonial Parkway murders seem
to be regulars at the Club Zodiac, which is very odd, so that
we almost feel like it's still early going and we're asking people a lot of
questions. I'm actually going to be talking to more people in the next couple
of weeks about this. There almost seems like there's a nexus around this club.
So we've got the Ivory Horse if I have the name, and then
next door is an after hours club members only. I think there was a
certain degree of lax enforcement of what constituted a member was the place where you
could be consuming alcohol till well passed closing time at regular bars, The Ivory
Horse, and then the next door club, which is Club Zodiac could be
a situation where you could go from one bar then to the after hours club
and you could be there at four or five in the morning. As I
understand it, really interesting. We're going to be trying to explore this more
about how many of these people whose names have been mentioned in connection with this
series of murders seem to also be connected to the Zodiac. Good question here
from Connie, but I'm not sure if we know the answer to this one,
but let's throw it out there anyway. Did the same polygraph who examined
Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior ad Minister of the test or tests to the National
Park Service rangers who were questioned when Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski Keith Call and
Cassandra Haley were murdered. It's a real good question, and man, would
I like to know the answer. I don't know the answer. We do
know who the poligrapher was, Yes, who gave the test in the Alan
Wade Wilmer Senior example, I don't know. It makes me want to ask,
so we'll see if we can get an answer on that one. So
with regard to the park rangers, again from Connie, have the FBI or
any other law enforcement agency or requested DNA samples from those same park rangers once
DNA testing became more advanced, want to say they have not, because I
am aware of at least one of those park rangers has been very resistant to
providing his DNA, which I personally find infuriating. Years ago, when the
FBI approached me and my brothers Richard and Jack, the surviving members of my
family, for our DNA samples, we willingly gave them to the FBI,
and they came to our respective offices and collected our DNA. I actually think,
and forgive me, I'm the brother of a murder victim. Here,
I'm not a lawyer, and I'm certainly not law enforcement I actually think you
should be required to give your DNA if you're going to work in law enforcement,
just for clearance purposes, just to avoid confusion. The fact that a
National Park Service ranger would resist giving his or her DNA in a murder investigation,
I actually find that infuriating. I think they should be required to give
their DNA. Now it just comes with the territory. In the same way,
I would be very surprised that if law enforcement people aren't required to give
their fingerprints, same thing. DNA is just a genetic fingerprint, is all
it is. But I know for a fact at least one of those now
retired National Park Service rangers is completely offended that they would ask him for his
DNA, And my attitudes really just cough it up and move on. You
didn't kill anybody. The only reason you'd have a concern about that is if
you did. I don't know why law enforcement can't be just required to provide
their DNA. That's a full stop move on. Yeah, I agree,
I agree hundred percent. Celeste asked, I'd be very curious to know if
Alan Wade Wilmer kept souvenirs of his killings. Based on what you know,
about murder and what you know about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior. Do you think
he's the type to keep souvenirs. I don't think I know Wilmer well enough
to say that. I know that this is something that law enforcement has always
been looking for in the Colonial Parkway murders, and they've been very specific.
I won't be very pacific about what they were looking for, but I know
they were looking for souvenirs. Over the years, profilers and investigators have talked
to us about collectors. Is one of the expressions they use people to collect
souvenirs, And sometimes it's hard to understand the mentality of someone like this,
but I think this is a way of hanging on to some small token of
an item that belonged to or was there or used as part of the murder,
and this allows them to revisit that. So I don't know Wilma well
enough to know if he's that kind of collector. I do know that the
law enforcement agencies have been looking for evidence like that could have been taken from
the crime scenes in the Colonial Parkway murders. Yeah, I agree with your
assessment on that Bill. I don't think we have enough information, and I
would go more into that if my voice weren't ready to give out. Jen
asks, what are your honest opinions and thoughts about the Parkway adjacent cases?
I would love to know more about those. And I'm thinking when she says
parkway adjacent, she's referring to Laurie and Powell and Brian Pettinger. I hope
I'm not presuming too much by saying that, but I'm pretty sure that's what
she means, because that's what I've been calling them for years. By the
way, when we say adjacent, we don't mean to have any value judgment
attached right that. All we're saying is these cases took place around the same
time and in the same locations as the Colonial Parkway murders. They're not double
homicides. They certainly happened nearby and right at the same time. As a
matter of fact, Brian pett Drew and Laurie and Powell murders actually bracket the
disappearance of Keith Callin Cassandra Haley, if I'm not mistaken, they do absolutely,
And we talk about Parkway adjacent cases doesn't mean exactly what Bill just said.
Anything that is similar to or could be related to the parkway. To
be perfectly honest, Jen, now that I've taken a look at some of
the other cases from this area, I think that we may have more parkway
adjacent cases than we previously used to. I do think Lorian Powell and Brian
Pettnger. Do you think that it is entirely possible Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior is
responsible for those But I think that we may need to expand our definition of
parkway adjacent in the future because I think that there are more that he might
be responsible for. One thing that makes me very curious is that Lorient Powell
and Brian Pattinger both worked for Liberty Security, so they worked out with Ron
Little. I think there's a possibility that Ron Little may have used the Colonial
Parkway murders or cover because if he knew that Brian Pettinger and Lorient Powell,
these young people that had worked for Liberty Security, knew something about questionable behavior
by the owners of Liberty Security, he might have used the fact that these
other murders were going on at the same time. And remember we talked about
this a minute ago. He very much inserted himself in a very public Way
in the Colonial Parkway murders, and I think he may have been trying to
obscure his original intent. Now I'm talking about Little in killing those young people
that worked with him at Liberty Security, and they might have had information about
wrongdoing at Liberty Security, whether it was cheating on their taxes or cheating their
clients, or theft or drug dealing or any number of other things that I
think Little was into. I think that seems more likely to me than anything.
One other thing I should mention is that Teresa Howell now is linked to
the Colonial Parkway murders, and I don't know if we continue to use that
word adjacent or not. I know some people have gotten very frustrated lately because
they point something out which I understand, which is that the Colonial Parkway murders.
The name itself is confusing because not all of these double homicide it's happened
on the Colonial Parkway. I didn't make up the term. It was a
media creation from back in the eighties. Certainly, there was a very strong
possibility, and I think there's an even greater one now that these murders are
linked. Alan Wade Wilmer could be responsible for all of the Colonial Parkway murders
and additional murders like Teresa Howells. We may have a very serious situation here
where we have a serial killer and then we have other people who are taking
advantage of the fact that there's a serial killer at work in the Tidewater area
of Virginia from nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty nine and likely starting before and
ending well after the murders we think of as the Colonial Parkway murders. I
get the people are frustrated. I think for clarity's sake, I think it
makes more sense to continue referring to these murders by the name they are known
as. And this is one of the reasons why I was so frustrated with
the FBI and the Virginia State, least for suddenly declaring that we're going to
call the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling the Isle of White Murders,
which no one's ever called them that, So let's not make up new names
while we're at it. That just adds to the confusion. Yeah, agreed,
And I think we need to do maybe whole entire or half of an
episode just based on this sudden flip decision that they've made. Let's completely divorce
it from the Colonial Parkway murders and call it something else. I don't understand
it, or rather, I'm sorry. I have a theory about why that
might be, but I'm not willing to antagonize our friends at the FBI and
the VSP, who are definitely listening to us right now. Good evening,
analysts, Thank you for listening. Yes, thank you all for listening.
We appreciate it. We actually have some questions that fall under the anything part
of ask us anything, because they are not related to specifically, but they
are related to crime and various other things. Let's start with one, Annie,
this is specifically for you, Bill, She says, from one author
to another, When is this book of yours coming out? With the developments
in the cases? Are you waiting to see if there is a conclusion before
you declare it done. I'm waiting until there's a conclusion before I declare it
done. The other thing is, there's been so much information just flooding us
that it's going to take me a while to sort all this out. So
that's my excuse for not having produced a book, Considering that you've been pretty
much perennially busy since January eighth. I don't imagine that there would be a
lot of time to write in there either, which, also, by the
way, is my excuse for not having a book done either. I am
a teacher. I have no time for such things and hardly any voice left.
And hardly any voice left. Annie asked me, in particular, what
is my favorite fictional crime movie and why. It's Silence of the Lambs.
Oh, that's a great one. I think I've only scene Silence of the
Lambs once all the way through it. It's amazing, and it came on
my radar in a college film class. I had never seen it. But
as soon as I watched that opening shot of Jodi Foster pulling her way up
the rope ladder on the Yellow Brick Road course, I was sold. I
wanted to be an FBI agent. I wanted to be Jodi Foster. I
wanted to run the Yellow Brick Road you name it, I wanted it.
Yeah, it's got to be Silence of the Lambs for me. Do you
have one bell? I think it's probably Zodiac Actually, Okay, the David
Fincher film, which is great, is great. Some of that stuff gets
dark for me. I know that might be hard to believe, but some
of that stuff's kind of disturbing. And then, of course my wonderful partner
Pamela will often push back when I want to watch something that's true crime related.
We actually started watching this latest season of True Detective with Jody Foster in
that as well, and it's really dark. So I've gotten some pushback from
Pamela on watching that. You can watch that anytime you want, in other
words, but not with her in the room. I also like this question
that Annie asked, and it's very germane to a terribly tragic case that happened
a week two weeks ago. I think Annie asks, as a woman who
goes running alone, what are some of the recommended items outside of the cell
phone that you would recommend carrying on you. This is something I've given a
lot of thought to recently. Annie, and I am a minimalist runner,
which means I do run with my cell phone and my keys, but that's
pretty much it. I have started thinking about whether or not I need to
carry a tactical pen or a foldable baton, or a taser or something like
that. I have not come to any conclusions as to whether or not I'm
going to carry anything with me outside of my keys, which I always carry
between my fingers with the pointy end down in case someone bothers me. One
of the things that I do recommend. And this sort of circumvents the role
that a lot of women are told, which is that you shouldn't wear earbuds
when you run. I have to have music when I run, otherwise I'm
not going to find my rhythm. But my loving boyfriend bought me a pair
of what are called open run bone conduction headphones, and I love these because
they don't go in your ears. They press against your temples and the sound
conducts off the bones in your skull so that you can still hear what is
going on with your ears. I can hear everything that's going on behind me.
I can hear traffic noise, I can hear bicyclists, I can hear
other runners. But I'm still getting the music because it's bouncing off the bones
of my skull and I'm hearing it in my head that way. It sounds
really weird. But it does sound really weird and not very appealing. No,
it actually honest to goodness. I bought a pair for another friend of
mine who goes running. He loved the quality. He said, this sounds
better than my normal earbuds. It's got the added benefit of you never have
to worry or your air POD's going to slip out of your ears. The
bone conduction ones loop over your ears and press against your temples and so you'll
never lose them. The sound I think is better than anything you would get
off of air pods, and it's great, and it's a way that I
can circumvent the oh you should be running in total silence. No. I
can run with music in, but I can also hear everything that's behind me.
I've been able to hear bicycles approaching, and cars and various other things.
So I'd recommend that for any woman who wants to run but also needs
to have music. I have ones called Open Run by Shock and they are
excellent, best money that you can invest in yourself as a runner. And
then we're going to finish up our ask us anythings with two questions from Julie.
Julie asks Bill, what's your go to album? When you're overwhelmed?
Boy, I'm looking at these thousands of LPs in my library here, there's
a lot. I'm a music fan through and through. I don't know if
there's a go to for when I'm feeling overwhelmed. One of my favorite rock
bands is a Scottish band called Delementrey, who had a number of big hits
in the nineteen ninety is always the last to know, which is how I
fail about the FBI most of the time. That's one that comes to mine.
There's an album of there called Change Everything, which is also appropriate that
came out I think in nineteen ninety four that I'm particularly fond of. But
there's a lot. I'm a music person through and through, and of course
many and I worked in the music industry for a number of years. I
think I have a lot of favorites. I don't know. Elementary came to
mind when I was answering the question anyway, okay, and she also asked
me, do I have a favorite genre of music? And why it's got
to be the eighties? Baby, me too. I'm an eighties I'm an
eighties child. I grew up with all of the hits of the eighties blasting
through my veins and on the stereo and at my mother's step aerobics class,
and so it's the eighties always. That's my that's my fun music. That's
when I'm on my drive home because I've got a thirty minute commute each way
every day and I need to decompress a little bit. You got to turn
on Journey and belt out a little don't stop believing or actually, Bill,
I'm going to ask you. It's an ask us anything, right, I'm
gonna ask you a question. What is your best belt of If you're going
to sing something and you're gonna do it really loud, maybe off key?
What is your favorite beltable tune? Hmmm? I got to think about that.
I don't know if I know the answer to that one off the top
of my Okay, okay, so anything you find yourself singing out loud,
maybe just every time you hear it on the radio. Oh sure. Our
go to is also music from the eighties, Okay. For us, it's
more alternative. So it's Elvis Costello, It's the Pretenders. Okay, it's
rock and pop from that era. I'm more of a guitar guy. Pamela,
my partner, is much more of a synth girl. She likes Florider
and Depeche Mode and stuff like that. I like that stuff too, but
I'm a bit more of a rocker, and I'd be much more likely to
put on the clash Idol. But then Billy Idol, for example, that's
a nice intersection of synthi stuff and guitar. Steve Stevens is Billy Idol's longtime
guitar player. That stuff's a big favorite. Nice. That is going to
wrap it up for this episode of Ask Us Anything, Colonial Parkway Murders and
assorted other topics edition. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you
next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog
Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art
is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. Mind Over
Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. You can follow us on
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Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on
Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder. No