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Good afternoon, Welcome to another episode
of the Crime Pace. But Bodeny doesn't

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podcast. I'm using my Botanical Research
Institute of Texas coaster. I think it

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was a mouse pad, but I'm
using as a coaster because no one uses

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no one uses sucking mouse anymore.
Huh. Like for a computer, you

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just use that track pad that you
only works half the time. At least

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that you've got a PC because Windows
is a virus, or so I'm told

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by computer nerd friends. Oh no, the snicio Radelia I just germinated.

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Some of them are Diane. That's
a bummer anyway. Today's conversation is with

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a woman I met during a meeting
here in South Texas concerning lfaf A conservation

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Payote conservation because, as I've mentioned
many times before on this podcast, populations

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are dwindling habitat clearances on the up
and up, and you know, something's

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got to be done. So I've
I guess been involved with that just you

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know, just from my work with
photographing and documenting wild populations and then working

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with people from Native American church who
are preserving it, growing their own seed,

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etc. Some pretty cool stuff being
done in Arizona as well with Morning

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Star Conservancy and my friend Leo and
UH as well as some cool stuff down

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here in South Texas among NAC members
down here who are trying to preserve it

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and uh save populations from being destroyed. So anyway, this, uh,

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this woman had some really wonderful things
to say during that meeting, and I

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was pretty struck by them, and
I was I realized it would probably be

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a good you know, probably be
a good conversation, probably someone that would

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be worth talking to and in listening
to. So that's what today's episode is.

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It's a conversation with Margaret Bihan,
who is one of the thirteen Indigenous

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Grannies, the thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers,
which was an organization. You can look

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it up. You could look it
up on a Google I'll tell you to

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do a Google search, because I'm
not gonna be able to sum up exactly

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how that organization got started and what
exactly it was. But there's some good

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stuff there. I think it's grandmother
Wisdom dot org or something. I was

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just type in thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers,
you know. But she's one of the

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thirteen Indigenous grandmothers. She's Cheyenne and
Arapahoe and her family has been using lofafra

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for a long time, and we
listened to her say some pretty pretty remarkable

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things about it, and yeah,
it was just it was a really pleasant

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conversation. So I hope you get
something out of it. I'm gonna I'm

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gonna just keep the ads at the
beginning. I'm not gonna put you know,

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because this was such a nice conversation. It would be kind of obscene

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to hear like a fucking ad for
our insurance fifteen minutes of the add.

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I don't know what these fucking ads
are. I don't you know. Obviously

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I don't pick them. I hate
all I hate ninety nine percent of the

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forms of advertising that are out there. It's a really just really grotesque and

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revolting. But obviously it makes me
money for the podcast, not much,

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but you know, it's nice to
be incentivized to make more of these.

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So but anyway, I'm gonna turn
them off for this episode because it would

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just be it's just obscene, you
know, here a fucking ad for like

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a toothpaste or car commercial or symtemshit. So anyway, enjoy this podcast.

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It's about forty minutes it'll be short. It's not too long. It's uh,

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except for the ads you probably just
had to listen to now before my

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silly ass spoke, it will be
add free. So uh, enjoy this

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conversation with Margaret Bihan. Look up
the thirteen Indigenous grannies and have a good

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rescue. They go about part distruction. You know, I mean, I

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think they're shock. They got a
nice shocker, so they started tagging the

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shutter and quash come out. You
know. I've seen a couple of night

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things in that room before. Get
a bunch of hippies for each others to

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Coomer schol starting to get down th
night for eight these they're about to go

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back, but they're not paging,
okay Margaret b and you there, yes,

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okay. UM, So, first
off, thanks a lot for taking

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the time today. I really appreciate
you being willing to do this, and

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I guess I just you know,
for the brief moment we met and some

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of the things I heard you say, um, I was quite taken with

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it. So I wanted to have
you on the podcast and have a little

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conversation with you and ask you some
questions and just give you a chance to

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uh to say some things. So
I guess I don't know where where should

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we start? You want to give
everybody a history of I guess introduced us,

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tell us who you are, give
us a little bit of history.

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Uh that sort of thing. Okay, my name is marg um Yan and

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Rapha are have another name. My
original name rid spider woman. But not

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they say okay and um and so
I guess tell us you know, I

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want to ask you. I guess
primarily about you know, Lofafra, Williams,

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I peyote uh or medicine is it's
as it's known, it's I guess

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what you've because that those were the
circumstances in which I first met you,

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is at a ceremony. And um, I guess some of the things you

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said, the ideologies you'd expressed during
that that ceremony really impressed me, and

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I really I felt I felt them. I you know, I felt a

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large I could tell by the way
you seem to view the world. Really

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took a struck a note with me, you know. So I guess do

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you want to give give me a
history? I guess like your experience with

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with peyote and how you feel about
it and what you think, what you

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think of the whole kind of ideology
and worldview that goes along with it.

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Well, I grew up and my
um understand my mother was pregnant where she

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she ain't medicine and I it was
surrendered with the ceremony, and every part

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of this ceremony was about our development
and growth in this world. And all

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the elements, the elements were are
the main rooms that we were using prey

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with, you know, the ceremony
floating uh growth from the earth and UH

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we're using the water to grow the
air, you know. And so the

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understanding of UM using it and the
way they were the language grows uh son

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is that it's a person, that
it's a it's it's a living and they

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understanding of that the experience for healing, it was healing and growth of UH

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eating medicine, eating the pilote,
and it was revert to understanding from my

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grandparents was that it was like the
pulpar glen, that it's always growing and

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that physically we Cheyenne repper. We
fought the comment was the first that we

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used the ceremony. They based their
their basic ceremony is UH that we used

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today and their song, and then
each tribe when it was founded in Oklahoma,

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Mini tribe Comum developed the foundation of
it when it became so local law

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making it legal, and there was
a lot of uh uh spirituality, ainry

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and I love after a song Like
now it seems like it's more political.

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So that's my short understanding of this
medicine. Along with this ceremony, they

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weaved together or together, and it's
all fitting to me, you know,

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on my growth, my own experience
of growing up with it is where I'm

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at today and being able to express
the uh I am example of this medicine

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and the ceremony to understanding the teaching
method. Mm hmm. So so it

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was it was. I guess it's
it's a way for self betterment among the

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indigenous people of North America, and
it's also a way to connect with the

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land. It sounds like it's a
way to express reverence for the living things

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around around oneself. And this contrasts
deeply, of course with you know,

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European Christianity, which kind of views
the land as as if it was just

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put here for us. I don't
really want to talk about that part.

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You're not short? Is that really
emphasize that we just go around it through

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it, you know, uh,
the different life and it's the obstacles.

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And it's a great teaching to me
that I see this, this uh Native

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American church, and people think that
I see them. I don't. I

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don't think they do. They treat
it like it is a really organized um

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religion church, you know, and
they wanted to have enough sometimes to me,

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I said, I don't understand it
that way because in our history of

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ceremonies, they were erected immediately and
they were erected to the nature process of

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nature. So I really love that
part, you know, I understanding that

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part. And today the guoty you
know is yes, it's concerned me because

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of the conversations I've been hearing and
the way that this medicine is uh being

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preserved is necessary. Um Um.
It seems like the um the pod has

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um has its case and the way
that we the way it was talked about

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it from when I was growing up, Yeah, it has its place.

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And um, I guess in the
in the European it's like you're chosen or

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you're the one that's the style language. But too you just this individual just

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is moved to do what it's uh
showing or calling the ceremony or the medicine,

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you know, and that's how we're
all come together. And and like

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I was moved to say something about
this positions of prayer in the ceremony,

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like the one that just saying the
main prayer, the purpose of why we're

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there in the circle, and then
the position of the firement his prayer.

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You know, That's what I commented
on at the present, what was in

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front of me, and wanted just
to remind that those positions were created for

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prayer directly to at that time and
begin the prayer of the purpose while we

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were there. I think that's that's
what strikes me about it, though,

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is that it's a this this connection
I guess for me, just especially the

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way I view the world, it's
this way of viewing the world that everything

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else has, you know, everything
else, whether it benefits us as humans

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or not, has a place and
deserves respect and reverence. And and that's

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something that I'm struck with, you
know, daily when I see because I

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realized that the larger society I'm a
part of doesn't view things that way.

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They so easily discard and get rid
of things that they don't think benefit us,

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that there's there's no use. You
know, it's very shortsighted and silly.

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Yeah. But from my position,
people come to me and tell me,

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you know these things, and I
say, well, I myself,

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you know, don't have the authority
or you know this law you know it's

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uh written for these purposes. M
hm. And my people, especially my

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grandfather in his generation UH got this
first chapter going on this foundation in Oklahoma.

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They were Opo Kiowa commanches STA's thirty
nine different tribes or the punker on

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the old sage. They all these
uh tribal people that knew and found it

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came to the highway was founded in
their lives. They came together and they

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formed this um law or really to
have this um organized chapter. Mm hmm.

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You know I'm hearing after rosing,
I'm speaking, what is that that

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might be? You know what that
might be? Because I've got let me

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see if I can get rid of
it. Hold on, Yeah, it's

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not a wife. It was.
It's when I sometimes when I put it

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on a Wi Fi connection, it
does that it gives an echo. Is

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that better? Yes, it's a
lot better. Okay, Okay, great,

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No, I know that's it's it's
annoying. Yeah, sorry about that.

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Um well, I wanted to ask
you too, I mean being that

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being that you know, and I
think most people have agreed. I mean,

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populations of the of the plant are
declining in habitat um and there's very

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various people, you know, saying, oh, we need to we need

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to grow from seed, we need
to establish we need to start growing it.

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Um. You know. I think
Leo, who you know, is

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he's doing that in in an Arizona. Um. What is what's the typical

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what's the consensus on that? I
mean, is it do the plants used

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in ceremonies need to come from habitat
or is it permissible to have ones that

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have been grown and planted in the
ground or what? Well? I have

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some pots and they I just copy
mouncles and my ants. You know,

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the generations before me they always had
plants, um, you know. And

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also everyone had their own medicine.
Uh, always prepare for a ceremony.

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I'm having medicine. And and then
now at this time I believe it's uh

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it's it's uh necessary we have to
you know, grow the guilty we have

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to sign. We're at that door
where we have to have the seeds.

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We have to learn more, you
know, how to how to grow this

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medicine. And in return, I
believe that it teaches us. It's teaching

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me right now to question myself about
these things. You know, well,

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what did what would our ancestors do? They were always looking for a better

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way of life a Cheyenne and Arapaho, always looking for forum continuance of life.

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So so these uh plants and medicine
have their heart too, and their

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purpose and the way that we it's
natural, you know, pray with the

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medicine, because the medicine as you're
thinking about amazing things when you are praying.

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I know, when I'm praying,
I see I see water, I

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see earth. You know all this, uh this whole planet like and that

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and the medicines and and how how
we got here, the evolution, you

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know, the changes that we got
here. And you were continually praying for

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this medicine to continue to grow,
and it is. It's growing, and

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it's even showing us about feet.
It's showing us you know, now we're

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going to have to grow, have
grow more in our homes, you know,

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and have it at value. That's
that's something not in you know,

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because we're we're stuck, stuck there, we're not developing, you know alone.

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So this medicine is is at this
time showing us and and even me,

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you know, accepting as a Native
American, accepting growing up in this

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this Native American church, that there
are changes that are going on, you

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know. And and I remember my
uncles and aunts and my mother's generation,

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they were saying the same almost the
same words. You know. There there's

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roles you know, the life.
There's there's a way we have a way

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of shining the light and and those
things are are where the different English and

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we're the people have different perceptions and
ideas. Some of us, my family

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on natives us, oh, we
don't want anything to change. Things are

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changed into saus or they change and
we don't like it. It's not the

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same, you know. But my
understanding as preten uh Indigenous grandmother on this

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consulate, I've had to open my
mind, expand my vision and seeing other

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indigenous in this on this planet.
And went to many visit many indigenous countries

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where people practice and they welcome us, they shared with us, and I

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was amazed to you know, being
in going to New Zealand and Australia thinking

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00:22:06,039 --> 00:22:11,440
you know, they're not really it
was unal for me to think about them

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in a button ti. I was
there in Japan, you know, and

205
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in Tibet and India. Oh my
gosh, these their religions or their practice,

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I should say, And I said, I have a practice through and

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I was shown that growing up with
the grandparents when they started this Native American

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church, because they were put on
a reservation. And had to do my

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own questioning research why did this Native
American church come to be? Because it's

210
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a melting pot of many ceremonies.
I had to ask questions and figure out,

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you know, from my own family, and some of them were reluctant,

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some of them didn't know, some
of them were just and we're so

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glad you're asking, you know,
because this needs to keep thriving, this

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needs to keep going, and you're
interested, and so that way, my

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00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:15,200
mother even said, so that way
you can teach your kids, you can

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teach your your family. You know, this prayer is amazing. When you

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take the medicine, when you you're
with the miss and brilliance comes out,

218
00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:37,000
your humbleness comes out. Tapping into
amazing parts of this living being that we

219
00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:41,680
are. And I thought she's talking, just talking, you know, And

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when it was my time to really
get involved in this ceremony and understand each

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part. Why they're bringing the water
at midnight, why they sing these songs

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at this time, you know,
and it's telling the story you know,

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or it some people used to say
it's the holiest stool, it's creator.

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00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:15,519
So all of that to my understanding, you know, why I was there,

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why it's individual as I am.
And they say the woman found the

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00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:29,720
medicine, the the comenche, the
Cheyenne rapper, they say. I've heard

227
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:37,480
them say that a woman on the
medicine. She was looking for her lost

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in that medicine, upon the medicine
and brought it to our people. So

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there are stories, you know,
around that are are really amazing too to

230
00:24:53,880 --> 00:25:00,799
understand, even in each individual or
the experience of thir ceremony for the first

231
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:07,799
time, or a sponsor a ceremony
for a reason of usually of ill,

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being sick and wanting to be well, and it's all about healing, and

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healing goes along with growth, and
this growth, you know, I think

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about that Flatlitary glend it's always good
and nobody's going to stop it, and

235
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I can't stop it. And the
way it sho you know, it shows

236
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:37,319
me, I mean, the medicine
shows me sort of these beings or helpers

237
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:45,160
and and here I am and then
figuring out of my own my own shart

238
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:52,960
feeling in my own mind and putting
it together as the wow, and you

239
00:25:52,079 --> 00:26:02,839
have earth fire burnings and we we'll
see the air, we feel the air

240
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,359
when the seed or the instance on
the polls, and then we are in

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00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:18,920
all convening with the creator that create
all of these medicine uh elements, and

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with ourselves nature. Yeah. That
was what. Uh That's something for me

243
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:33,480
that I that I've found really really
wonderful about, uh, you know,

244
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witnessing that was this was the connection
and the love for this, for this

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00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:44,920
plant and also for each other and
for the larger landscape, for everything,

246
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:48,720
you know, and especially me being
someone I mean it's easy for me to

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00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:52,119
love plants. I get I get
a little crazy about I get obsessed about

248
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,279
it. But just to see so
much, you know, so many people

249
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:03,799
and so much time devoted to just
talking about having respect oh you there,

250
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,000
yeah, yeah, so many people
having respect for this plant and for the

251
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land that it grows on. Uh, you don't often encounter that, you

252
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:17,559
know in society. It was it
felt really good to see into witness focus

253
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:22,920
on that because there's a bigger collective
people smart, and they are coming around.

254
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:27,880
You know. I look around.
I'm sitting a strangers and used today

255
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,960
and I say, wow, I'm
seeing something, you know, really amazing

256
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:40,559
for the first time in evolving.
And who brought them here? Who who

257
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:48,319
said this that they could come here? And they are here, you know,

258
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,839
and so from one person it can
It's like a pod that can create

259
00:27:53,000 --> 00:28:00,160
pods and salves, and that that
is what I'm seeing with this medicine.

260
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:06,160
There are selves, you know,
people wanting to help and grow medicine and

261
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:12,200
by land getting involved in how to
organize. That is amazing. That is

262
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:18,759
extraordinary. Even it's not the way
you see here or I will see anybody

263
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:26,519
is organizing in this country. No, but it is happening, you know,

264
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:34,319
and I can be and able to
be am called to be. I'm

265
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:41,240
guided up. Do yeah, I
see. I think a lot of people

266
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:45,480
want to connect to land, to
land into plants, and they know they

267
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,839
can sense avoid you know, in
the society. They grow up and they

268
00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:52,400
can feel avoid within themselves. They
can feel avoiding the things that were taught

269
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,839
and so they they're learning that the
way to feel that is to connect to

270
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,720
other living things, to growth things, you know, not just right now

271
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:07,039
in this time of this world.
What my understanding is people are coming back

272
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:14,359
to connecting, like what you said, connecting with each other. We're communicating,

273
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having to to communicate and me together
like my grandchildren. You know,

274
00:29:22,079 --> 00:29:26,440
I got one grandson out of eight
boys, he's the one that drums and

275
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:34,119
sings. And the risk are you
know, are just watching him. And

276
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,599
that's good. At least they're watching
him and they're listening to him. You

277
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:45,079
know, they could be off,
you know, you know, just leave

278
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,279
him, you know, but when
he starts drumming or singing, you know,

279
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:56,680
they listen to him. And it's
part of that amazement as a living

280
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:03,559
human being when they can show something
like that dream eating the dream that we're

281
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:15,079
the that it connects with the human
being and how that um implifies into the

282
00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:25,119
spirit. Also the singing the song, you know, and yeah, there's

283
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:33,279
a lot of English words explaining,
you know, I'm finding um. I

284
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,319
can't take for ground up anymore that
you know, one word in my language

285
00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:45,799
will cover cover everything the way the
grandparents and my parents did, but they

286
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:51,200
we would already know part of it. You know English. Now I have

287
00:30:52,519 --> 00:30:56,440
little deta what is insects. It's
the theater and the theater as the story

288
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,240
the creator. Uh, this person
being meant to the creator and said to

289
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,640
the creator, I let people don't
I don't want to do something for them,

290
00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:12,160
and you helped me do something for
it. And the creators send them

291
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:19,359
up to the wilderness. So I
will taking a tree, and you will

292
00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:23,920
ever change color in the seasons.
You will stay the same courts, and

293
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:32,079
you become the instance. And when
people burn you and the fire the combination

294
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,279
the formula, they can be forgiven, you'll be standing for forgiveness. And

295
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:45,160
that's just one story that I love. Yeah, that's I want. I

296
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:52,000
wanted to ask you, um,
about the thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers and your your

297
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:55,960
work with that, and I guess
you know how you felt about it,

298
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,559
how much you enjoyed it, what
you learn from it. You touched on

299
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,880
a little bit. But I guess
I want to explore that man with you.

300
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:09,200
Well, Um, I I was
called to in the two thousand and

301
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:19,640
three, and um, we became
a council in two thousand and four and

302
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,039
the Senate for Sacred studison out sixteen
letters, and thirteen of us answered,

303
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:30,000
so we became the Council of thirteen. That was the indication in the in

304
00:32:30,279 --> 00:32:39,000
our the women the feminine, that
was a sign that that was the prophecy

305
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:45,200
when the grandmothers speak, When the
grandmothers speak, that we're not living according

306
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:52,759
to original instructions, which was to
teplay over our home, this earth,

307
00:32:52,960 --> 00:33:01,640
and that we were had had to
live a colding to care for each other

308
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:14,880
and this um plant, you know, our food and sustain ourselves. So

309
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:22,920
the behavior, I guess too is
the value honor each other, the armor

310
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:29,400
cold for each other, you know, respect and behavior, behavior for each

311
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:36,160
other, and um a lot.
It's it's loaded, you know, even

312
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:42,720
now telling them about just picking a
few things, um, and then so

313
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,559
that came to be and then that
they're being each one has the teaching as

314
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:55,759
the process of life like the the
sekey Uh tripples for the shan rapper,

315
00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:04,240
there's a development of life. Also
these scenes come are in the front of

316
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:12,639
us, and now to understand them. The teachings and so that we can

317
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,079
refer to mark or we're at the
seventh generation. They talked about the seventh

318
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:23,440
generation. Here we are in the
seventh generation that the worst gonna change takes

319
00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:30,159
place and take seven generations. And
then so here's the mark where everything is

320
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:36,920
coming. I guess at once on
the surface of life on this earth,

321
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:43,679
you know, issues and the way
we are conditioned, this condition we find

322
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:51,199
ourselves in life. So here we
are and I think about these our emission

323
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,039
statement and the thirteen grandmothers with world
peace, healing mother earth and or inhabitants.

324
00:34:57,559 --> 00:35:01,039
And from myself, I question myself, how is peace? What is

325
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:08,000
peace to me? Well? Coming
along, you know, serving ten years,

326
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:13,199
thirteen years, and I said,
peace, have to be peace,

327
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:20,400
no peace within myself, live it, understand it, and then it gets

328
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:25,079
you know, contagious. And then
we have to be a peace of my

329
00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:36,320
own family, my outer circle,
and then my tribe tribal people. And

330
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,199
I come from two tribes, you
know, to Tryane and the Rackle.

331
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:50,679
So I had to be with them
to tackle with them, and so we

332
00:35:50,840 --> 00:36:00,400
can be together. And that is
that's creating peace right there, and my

333
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:07,679
understanding and then mothers and all the
pollution, and the Lakota Grandmothers they stopped

334
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:17,159
the uranium mind. They wrote letters
and we're always our first issue is water,

335
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:28,280
and there's water on the reservation that
has um natural springs, and that's

336
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:31,400
what I was concerned about. I
didn't want any of our water to be

337
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,360
to be sold. So I would
educate the leaders of our tribe and say,

338
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:40,960
please don't sell our water. It's
a medicine, you know, it's

339
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:49,480
continually moving and point and it's a
yeah, there's water that needs it needs

340
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:57,559
to um be sold so we can
have money to do other projects to sustain

341
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:06,000
us. UM. I didn't go
anymore, you know, into that conversation.

342
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:14,199
M so. So that's how I
understand this. And then the healing,

343
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:21,000
of course, the healing was the
medicine and the ceremonies. Yeah,

344
00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:25,159
I'm looking at that understanding that the
teams. Yeah, I mean it says

345
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,719
here. I'm looking at the website. It says Grandmother's Wisdom, reverence for

346
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,840
all creation and uh, and it
says we are committed to supporting all people

347
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,599
reclaiming their relationship to Earth, calling
for a profound transformation and heart minded spirit.

348
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,760
That's pretty beautiful stuff. And I
think it. The larger question too,

349
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,599
is that in that word reclaiming,
it kind of indicates that as a

350
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,760
society we're a little off track right
now. And I think most people would

351
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,559
agree. What do you think?
What do you think happened? I mean,

352
00:37:55,639 --> 00:37:59,639
in the way how do we get
here? In the way that that

353
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:05,920
larger society maybe views things or views
its relationship with the land that we live

354
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,599
on. What happened do you think? Well? Each individual, you know,

355
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,440
with development growth, they have ideas
and it's it's part of the environment

356
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:20,639
that they live and we live in. I want a betterment and they have

357
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,760
ideas. You know, even my
brothers had ideas. My father and I

358
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,039
was a chief, he had his
part. He knew he had to take

359
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:37,400
care of the people who was the
wealthfare system. And my mother, you

360
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,800
know, as an activists for the
Native American Church. And I have all

361
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,000
our papers, so I have the
remnants, you know, of all this.

362
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:51,519
So I just sit with it and
I'm in wonder times. How did

363
00:38:51,599 --> 00:39:02,039
they do this? My sisters they
were just really kind of rebellious thinking,

364
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:07,039
but they never acted on it.
You know, they they had children and

365
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:12,280
they would coming, don't have any
children right away? You know, don't

366
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,239
get married is because look what I'm
going through. And so you know,

367
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:24,360
this development, they process the steps
that we're taking in each family, each

368
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:32,199
you know, environment that we grew
up in has a lot of m has

369
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:38,400
a lot of influence on our growth
and not understanding. So I think about

370
00:39:38,559 --> 00:39:44,639
people that, you know, the
politicians. I hear them guys that wow,

371
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:49,639
they're really daring, you know,
they're coming going up there and wanting

372
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,920
to be changed or make laws,
you know, for me and for everybody

373
00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,039
else, you know, and these
rules. And some of them face it

374
00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:02,079
out and some of them get over
rualized, said, wow, what is

375
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:07,760
that about? You know? So
I think it really is about the creators

376
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:15,960
still had that holding on too,
creators ideas or thoughts or uh giving of

377
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:22,199
me to have this experience to live
and come to this planet. And there

378
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,280
are stories about it. But you
know, my time is running out here.

379
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:30,360
M hmm. Okay, well we
can we can finish up. We

380
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,599
can finish up soon. I guess
in closing out, what do you think

381
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:39,079
the future is uh for for medicine, for the payote, what do you

382
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:44,679
think the future is for? You
know, it's spot inhabitat down here I

383
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,360
mean, what do you what do
you what do you foresee? And uh,

384
00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:52,599
what do you hope for? I
don't think it's for any It's particular

385
00:40:52,800 --> 00:41:01,119
place I as a Native person and
Native American church member. UM. The

386
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:13,119
knowledge that I have is as a
Native American practicing UH citizen the Native American

387
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:19,880
Church. I believe that each it
started up when they were all the tribes

388
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:25,199
were came together to build a foundation. There's always a foundation, you know.

389
00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:35,159
UM. So this time thou together
and made that. And I believe

390
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,880
that's what I want. That's what
I I see and I want and I'm

391
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,960
I'm praying all this and putting my
heart into it and talking like this and

392
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:55,760
that my um, my Native American
UM people would come together for this medicine

393
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:05,440
because they are the ones that sort
of have initiated this with their with their

394
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:15,599
belief their own belief systems as the
mountain cot of of their ceremonies when it

395
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:24,639
came to resolution times. So so
how reveilient that they could um collect in

396
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:31,280
ceremonies and put them all in one
circle. That is amazing And that's what

397
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,880
I'm well, that's what I wish
for, that is what I pray for

398
00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:49,360
not each each tribal knowledge would come
together to m then then we can we

399
00:42:49,840 --> 00:43:01,320
um uh re rolled could re robed
or redirect or re assess where we're at

400
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:13,599
and begin this uh next chapter,
this next part for our our generations to

401
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:19,559
come. Because as an under I'm
asking out prouble people, what is the

402
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:29,960
what is the gift you're gonna leave
the next generations? Mm hmm so yeah,

403
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,320
so like that? So can I
close out like that? Yeah?

404
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,159
Absolutely, yeah, Yeah, thanks
a lot for your time, and um,

405
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,280
yeah, I thought it was good
talking to you. I think I'm

406
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,800
I'm hopeful too. I think that's
why organizations like Leo's, like morning Star

407
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,639
Conservancy just you know, growing,
growing a lot of this plant and putting

408
00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:51,840
it, trying to put them in
the ground. Um, you know in

409
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:57,119
places like Arizona where it's it's legal
to for n ac members's. Yeah,

410
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,519
I'm really hopeful about it. And
I just I think that's what struck me

411
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:05,199
about it was just the reverence in
their respect for this, for this plant

412
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,199
and also for the habitat that it
grows. And so, um, thanks

413
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:12,880
a lot. I really really appreciate
a short prayer here in my language.

414
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,320
Oh that would be wonderful. Thank
you for talking about what I love too

415
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:24,000
much. That would be wonderful.
Yes, thank you. My home is

416
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:46,519
too hot. The mosque mat test
to Mata TV. Mosque should test dust

417
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:57,440
I naha. Thank you all right, Margaret, thank you so much.

418
00:44:57,519 --> 00:45:00,519
That was great. I really appreciate
you. Okay, okay, be well,

419
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:04,199
have a good rest of your day. Thank you, thank you,