WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.120 This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to kf I Am six forty the 2 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:09.439 Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on demand on the iHeartRadio app k BYE Am six forty. 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:12.960 You have doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walls 4 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:16.480 Show. Sit back because for the next couple hours, I want to talk 5 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:20.600 about your love life. Whether you're married, whether you're single, whether you're 6 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.960 a mate poacher, whether you're worried that your mate is going to be poached. 7 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:27.480 I've got news for you on the science of love. If you've been 8 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:30.079 with me for a while, you know that I've got a PhD in clinical 9 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:34.439 psychology and I am obsessed with the science of love. I'm a psychology professor 10 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:40.159 at California State University, Channel Islands, and I have a mission in life 11 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:47.200 for everyone to learn healthy relationship skills. I don't care what you think. 12 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:52.520 Love is not about luck. Love is about skill. Producer Kayla, how 13 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:54.840 are you this? How you're doing this week? I'm all right, doctor 14 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.920 Wendy. How are you good? Do you have any love interests you want 15 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.679 to share that I want to share? But I'm not a lonely girl. 16 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.959 Oh I'll oh, just take one look at producer Kayla and you know she 17 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:10.040 is not a lonely girl. So good to know we have Mark Ronner with 18 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.680 us in the newsroom. Always a pleasure. Nice to be back with you. 19 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:15.959 Good to see you. Rowell. Is that who we have on the 20 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.400 board. Yeah, I'm here squitting at the camera there. How are you 21 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:23.359 doing good? How are you good? Good? Well? I had a 22 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:27.840 week. Remember last week I was talking about helping my daughter launch right and 23 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:32.560 I said she had this big job interview. I'm not going to say it's 24 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:37.319 where, but okay, it's at a store called Feature and Calabasas. She 25 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:41.359 did her first interview, she was very excited. She did the follow up. 26 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:47.159 Now they told her, well, we're interviewing other people and you know, 27 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:52.400 look for an email if we progress. So we had to do two 28 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:56.079 days of depression because she thinks that's the blowoff, and I said, it 29 00:01:56.239 --> 00:02:01.079 is never too late. They are hiring salespeople. If you cannot sell yourself, 30 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.840 then how are you going to sow? Anyway, we do some stock 31 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.080 in on LinkedIn. We found a company owner. You know, I'm teaching 32 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:14.560 her things whether she gets the job or not. These are very important life 33 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:19.400 lessons. And my biggest point that I want to make is more than sixty 34 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:23.319 percent of young adults aged twenty to twenty four do not go to college. 35 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:29.039 They do not go to community college. There's all kinds of reasons they don't 36 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.319 go to university, community college, trade school, all kinds of reasons. 37 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:36.120 They may have learning differences, they may just be more creative and artistic and 38 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:40.360 have great visual intelligence. And so we as parents need to still look at 39 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:46.759 this time, this period of their life as a stage of development instead of 40 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:51.120 I know Chris was saying earlier that he's got one that's having trouble launching. 41 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.759 It's not having trouble launching. They need If if we want our if we 42 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.520 allow our college age kids four years to launch, why do we expect the 43 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:02.759 high school graduate to launch in one year. I don't understand, but that's 44 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.120 sort of the thinking out there anyway. So I had a great week. 45 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:13.400 It's been fun helping her launch. And I was thinking about my relationship this 46 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:16.360 week, and so, okay, has this ever happened to you? Kayla? 47 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:22.479 You're my boyfriend and I were in separate cities for one night and he 48 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:27.240 called around dinner time, like around six o'clock or something. We chatted for 49 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:29.439 a little bit and then I said, Okay, well I'm gonna go do 50 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.080 this this this, I'll call you before I go to sleep. And then 51 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:37.800 like five minutes later he called me back and he said, Hey, I'm 52 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:40.199 gonna go see the new Denzel Washington movie. So just go to bed. 53 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:45.120 It'll be too late and i'll talk to you tomorrow. Kayla. What does 54 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.400 a woman feel when she gets a call like that that he's lying and doing 55 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:52.199 something else and doesn't want to talk to me? And where are you that 56 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.080 you can't talk to me? So don't you think first thing this morning? 57 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.039 But luckily he is a good guy and he called like seven am. I 58 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.199 was like, so what theater did you go to? And I'm like on 59 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:08.240 the on my phone checking is it playing at that theater? Oh? What 60 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.120 time was the show? How was the movie? What was the blot? 61 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:16.040 Like that's on the nose? Just but you know, I didn't I didn't 62 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.079 say it the way I'm saying it to you. I was just kind of 63 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:21.639 like, oh, this was a movie, good, Like what was it 64 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:25.199 of? How you know? And I was just being in inquiry. Play 65 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.079 it cool, yeah, play it cool. I think the truth is he 66 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:31.959 worries about me and what will happen to me. So he thought, well, 67 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.759 if the movie gets out late, I don't want to wake her up 68 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:40.920 if she's gone to bed. And Julio's sweetest. Of course he is sweet, 69 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.120 but it's still I wish you'd called that. I could have called. 70 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.199 I was just like, here's the thing, no matter how long you're in 71 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:51.560 a relationship, if you value your mate, these are natural, normal feelings 72 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:56.519 to have every once in a while. Now if they're chronic feelings and you're 73 00:04:56.519 --> 00:05:00.120 being triggered all the time, that's a whole different thing. So I came 74 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:05.639 across a few articles this week on how to tell if your own relationship is 75 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:11.439 healthy, and you know, because I got into the business of psychology if 76 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.800 you will, I mean, I started studying psychology like many many people do, 77 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.519 to heal myself, and so I apply everything to myself. So I 78 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:23.319 looked at this little desk and I was like, okay, so let's see 79 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:28.920 if all the boxes get checked off here. So first is do you have 80 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:34.199 trust in one another? Well, in general we do, but last night 81 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:39.920 was just me being triggered a little bit, and it's important to understand that 82 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.639 how much we trust somebody isn't just about their behavior and what they do. 83 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:48.199 It's our own attachment style and our attachment organization. So if you had a 84 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:55.600 lot of instability in your early life relationships and you have anxiety and fear of 85 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.800 abandonment around attachment, you know your partner can be the most loyal, the 86 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.319 most devoted, the most communicative, but you're going to be triggered anyway. 87 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:09.720 So it's important to understand that sometimes it's your peace. Another good question, 88 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.839 do you respect each other? If you're in a relationship with somebody you don't 89 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:20.279 respect, I have a couple of things to say to you, mainly why 90 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:26.240 are you there? I mean, we try to get a mate because we 91 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.319 value that mate, because we look up to that mate. And then if 92 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.800 we spend our time in the relationship looking down on them or thinking there's a 93 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.279 bigger, better deal out there, then we're not going to be happy. 94 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:45.879 And here's the thing our relationship. The amount of happiness and security in somebody's 95 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:50.519 relationship, actually you can't look at from the outside. It's really just your 96 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:56.839 perception. And there's all kinds of research to show that couples who believe that 97 00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:00.079 they're in a healthy, happy relationship. Are happy because they believe it. 98 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.480 It doesn't matter what people think on the outside. Well, I mean, 99 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.240 excluding if there's abuse, but I just mean, you know, the regular 100 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:13.839 run of the mill stuff. Here's another test for whether your relationship is healthy. 101 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:18.120 Do you support each other's interests and efforts. And I should say that 102 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:24.319 we in my relationship support each other very much. We're interested in different things. 103 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:30.120 He's interested in Formula one and classic cars, and I walk around early 104 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.839 in the morning on Sunday mornings a classic car shows with my coffee and one 105 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:38.519 eye open, and he comes to do the things that I like to do. 106 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:44.360 I'm developing property and I'm always decorating and designing, and he's there to 107 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.439 support me. So yeah, we pass on that one. Here's a big 108 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:55.079 one. Do you two talk about your feelings, including your hopes, your 109 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:59.800 fears, your dreams. You know, this has to be an ongoing conversation. 110 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:03.199 You can't like date somebody get engaged, get married, and they go, 111 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:07.079 Okay, we're on autopilot. Now we both have the same goal, 112 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:13.480 the same plan. No, because everybody is a constantly changing organism. We're 113 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:18.839 all growing and changing so it's important that you understand that having a healthy relationship 114 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:26.399 means continuing to get to know your partner as they change, and feeling safe 115 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.680 to talk about feelings, to talk about your hopes and the big one fears 116 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:33.919 and dudes, I know it's hard for you. I know you've been acculturated 117 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.759 to not express fear use you have this idea. Young men are doing a 118 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.679 much better job at it, by the way, but older men have been 119 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:46.639 told that sharing their feelings is somehow weak. Meanwhile, women are craving it. 120 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.960 We're craving emotional intimacy. It's like we're banging on your hard chest, 121 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.559 going come on out of there, tell us what you're feeling. Although I 122 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.480 have a friend who said women love a man who can cry, but not 123 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:07.519 too often. Right. I actually did data guy once who cried all the 124 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:13.600 time. It was like a manipulative tactic. I mean the first few times 125 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:18.720 I was all consoling and all into it, and then near the end I 126 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:20.519 just roll over and go back to sleep, and he'd be sobbing away. 127 00:09:20.519 --> 00:09:24.240 I'm like, I'm not gonna, not gonna fall for it. He learned 128 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:31.399 that somewhere somehow to manipulate people here's a good litmus task for how healthy a 129 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:37.960 relationship is. Do you express fondness and affection? Do you remind your partner 130 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.000 why you care about them on a regular basis? Are you guys still holding 131 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.080 hands, are you hugging? Are you touching toes in bed? It's very 132 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:54.399 important that we think about these things because every relationship must be nurtured, it 133 00:09:54.519 --> 00:10:01.559 must be worked on regularly, or else it becomes vulnerable to a mate poacher. 134 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.399 A mate poacher, and that is exactly it means, exactly what it 135 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.039 sounds when we come back. There is new science on mate poaching that I 136 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.279 want to share with you. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Wells Show 137 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:20.399 on kaf I Am six forty with Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're 138 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:26.639 listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf I Am six forty a I 139 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.080 Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the 140 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.840 Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. You know, the first time I ever heard the 141 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.960 term mate poacher, it was probably in doctor David Buss's famous book, The 142 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:45.080 Evolution of Desire. He's an evolutionary psychologist at the University of Texas, Austin, 143 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.519 and that book blew my mind because he puts a scientific eye on all 144 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:56.159 kinds of human mating strategies. And as it turns out, a very natural 145 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:03.679 common mating strategy is to be a mate poacher, which is wanting somebody else's 146 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.159 mate. And you know, we talked last week about the fact that there's 147 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:15.639 research to show that if a mate has already been previously approved by another mate, 148 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:20.759 then it reduces your chances that the person you know maybe unhealthy or have 149 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.000 mental health issues or Ceas's sort of like and I always used to say when 150 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.759 I was a young single woman, it'd be nice to have a man who 151 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:33.480 was already trained by a woman, Like that'd be great. So I think 152 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:39.159 about mate poaching because it's it's not only about that these partners who are already 153 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.919 partnered look attractive to others, But who are the ones who take the cultural 154 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.320 risks? You know, society says you're not supposed to steal other people's mates. 155 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:54.600 Who are the people that try to take other people's mates? Now, 156 00:11:54.919 --> 00:12:01.000 you might remember the Feeler in Chief or whatever he was called, the grab 157 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:07.279 him by the in chief back in you know, when NBC leaked those tapes. 158 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:09.559 Do you remember what he said? Well, in case you don't, 159 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:16.679 this is what the world heard when those tapes of Donald Trump releaked in twenty 160 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.240 sixteen. Listened closely. I moved on her. Actually you know, she 161 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.919 was down upon beach. I moved on her. N I failed all a 162 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.960 minute. I did try, and because she was married. Oh no, 163 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.759 Nancy, no, this was And I moved on her very heavily. In 164 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.399 fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. 165 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.600 I said, I'll sell you. We that's some nice furniture. I 166 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.399 took out furniture. I moved on her like a beach. I couldn't get 167 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.919 there. And she was married, And all of a sudden, I see 168 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.159 her. She's now got the big phonys and she's totally changed her look. 169 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:48.679 Okay, who I forgot to warn you, for haught to give you a 170 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.919 trigger warning about some of that. Uh. It is reported, or it's 171 00:12:54.200 --> 00:13:00.000 gossiped, that he may have been talking about Access Hollywood anchor Nancy O'Dell, 172 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.120 who was married at the time. But you see how brazenly he mentioned the 173 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.120 word twice. She was married. She was married. You got to say 174 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.480 to yourself, like, why was this an important piece for him? Mate 175 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:20.360 poaching, also known as partner poaching, is when someone deliberately and knowingly pursues 176 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:28.080 those who are already in a committed romantic relationship. Now, remember what anthropology 177 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:33.039 says we do as human mating strategies may be very different than what our culture 178 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:41.159 accepts or condones. Right, So it's always been thought that mostly men do 179 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:48.600 the mate poaching, but as it turns out women single women are actually more 180 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.519 likely to increase their efforts toward pursuing a partnered man rather than a single man. 181 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.600 Here's a little aside for you. Did you know that when a wife 182 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:03.759 wears expensive jewelry reduces mate poaching. It keeps other men away because they think 183 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.320 she's out of his league. He could never afford to keep her in all 184 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:13.480 those bobbles and rocks. And also it keeps women away from the man because 185 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:16.960 they think, oh, he's super committed. He's invested all this money in 186 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.480 her diamonds. So that's one of the unconscious reasons why women love to have 187 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.720 jewelry from their men. But listen to this. There's new research that showed 188 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:31.279 that, let's say, one hundred and eighty seven Headtersexual Couples revealed that men 189 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:37.840 who engage in poaching the mates of other men tend to do so when they 190 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:43.360 have low conscientiousness, high machiavellianism. That's not a good that's a dark behavioral 191 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:50.840 trait, the goal oriented behavior if they are manipulative, insincere, callous, 192 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.080 and self centered. Hey, I'm just quoting the science, Okay. Men 193 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:05.240 who are successful at poaching show higher levels of psychopathology, lower levels of agreeableness. 194 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:11.360 Interesting. Meanwhile, women who poachmates tend to be extroverted and little psycho 195 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:13.679 too. I'm sorry, it's true. Look, I want to tell you 196 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.720 a story. So back when I was anchoring on Extra, I did a 197 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.879 Day in the Life of Donald Trump, I don't know what year, it 198 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.399 was, maybe ninety six, and followed him around for a day doing just 199 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.159 a day in the Life of with a crew. And you know, he 200 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.600 was sort of mildly hitting on me, but he was trying to investigate. 201 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.759 And his biggest problem because he was confused because he needed me to tell him 202 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.440 who I was dating and could they be a big name? Like He's like, 203 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.000 who have you dated? Who have you did? That was always. 204 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:46.960 In other words, to him, I was a possession of a man. 205 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:52.679 I was an object. I was a trophy to steal from another man. 206 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.120 Then when I didn't drop celebrity names at him, he started asking me, 207 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.519 like where I sat at the Laker games? Whose seats I sat in? 208 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:07.720 Like somehow if I was attached as an extension to some wealthy or famous man, 209 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.960 then I would be more attractive to him. I remember taking great note 210 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:15.679 of this, because I'd never been flirted with by a guy who clearly wanted 211 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:21.679 names. He wanted to know whose stuff he was taken. I know, 212 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:26.919 I find it very fascinating, all right, But basically, how do you 213 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:33.840 prevent mate poaching in your relationship? You treat your mate well so they aren't 214 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:40.480 vulnerable to make poachers, be nice, compliment them tonight. Speaking of which, 215 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:44.879 if you're thinking of breaking up, are you nearing an empty nest? 216 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.360 Because there's a big trend in America called the empty nest divorce. I want 217 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.840 to talk about this when we come back. You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh 218 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:59.159 on demand from kf I am six forty am six forty. You have doctor 219 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.559 Wendy Walsh with you to see is the doctor Wendy Walls show. You know, 220 00:17:03.400 --> 00:17:07.839 look, when till Death Do Us Part was invented, death was pretty 221 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.160 imminent. The truth is, and this is good news everybody. We have 222 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:19.079 really long life expectancies. Life is not short. Life is long, and 223 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:26.920 the idea of staying together until you both pass away happens for a very small 224 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:32.720 minority of human beings. You know, if you got married in the year 225 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:37.720 nineteen hundred and stood up and said we're gonna make it go until death do 226 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.119 us Part, the average length of that marriage was about twelve years. And 227 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:47.519 if you got married in nineteen ninety and said yep, forever and ever, 228 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.960 the average length of that marriage is about twelve years. You know, we 229 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:56.720 separate from divorce now. One of the main reasons why people have traditionally gotten 230 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.440 married, of course, is to raise a family. And there's so much 231 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.720 research to show that this is a really good idea, that we still do 232 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:08.480 not have enough cultural supports for single parents. And as a result, if 233 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:15.039 you have two people in a nest who are both committed to investing in those 234 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.400 kids, whether it's time, whether it's money, whether it's just contributions to 235 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.839 the household, and the roof over their head. The kids will do better. 236 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.000 Okay. Now I am speaking as somebody who was a single mom for 237 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.359 eighteen years, and so I know how hard my life was. I know 238 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:36.960 how hard it was for my kids. I tried to do the absolute best 239 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:41.480 that I possibly could. It's funny today. Today I had this conversation with 240 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:45.559 my daughter, she's twenty now, and we were talking about that woman that 241 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:48.640 I guess was really big on social media and TikTok, and she's from Utah 242 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:55.039 and she's a very strict parenting person. She believes in strict parenting, and 243 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.920 one of her kids recently climbed out the window with duct tape on his risk 244 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.960 and ankles and scars and whatever. Anyway, she's now charged with child abuse. 245 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:11.400 Turns out her strict even involved making them making food a privilege. Okay, 246 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.160 but it made me think, like there are no perfect parents. But 247 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.440 I thought about the stressful, stressful times as a single mom, and I 248 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.200 said to my daughter, you know, I you know, you drove me 249 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:25.519 so crazy. I once hit you on the butt, but your butt was 250 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.640 so hard that I actually bruised my hand instead. And she laughs, she 251 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.720 goes, yeah, I bit you a bunch of times, so it is 252 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:36.920 hard. It's hard to be a single parent. However, if you've been 253 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.559 fortunate enough to have a partner with you and raise those kids, get ready 254 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:48.240 because a huge chunk of marriages dissolve just when the nest is approaching empty or 255 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:52.039 has become empty. And this makes a lot of sense for many people, 256 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.759 I mean, at least to understand. Right, it's that you feel like 257 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.519 your business together, the contract you had was to raise those kids, and 258 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.119 now it's time for you. I think about former Mayor of New York Bill 259 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:10.079 de Blasio and his wife Shirley McCrae that announced that they're not actually divorcing, 260 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:14.400 but they're going to start dating other people. They're sort of like being happily 261 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:18.640 undivorced in some way. Their kids are now twenty six and twenty eight, 262 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:23.640 they've been together thirty years. They're bored with each others. It is true 263 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:29.400 that divorce rates are highest when kids leave the nest. I want to say 264 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.440 this, if you're considering this, first of all, applaud yourself because even 265 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.519 if your relationship wasn't perfect, but nobody's is. You know, you made 266 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.839 that effort. You did the important thing, which is staying together for the 267 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.640 kids, which is the thing I preach all the time. But there are 268 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.519 non traditional arrangements that are okay too, because who cares what culture thinks at 269 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.880 this point. Some ideas I don't know if I'd go so far as the 270 00:20:56.039 --> 00:21:00.079 Di Blasio's where they're gonna live in one house and one family and just go 271 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.839 out the door and date every night. Well, who are these partners? 272 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.559 Are they just like hooking up with people because eventually it's all fun and games 273 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.839 until somebody falls in love, and then they're gonna have to go and revisit 274 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:15.880 this arrangement. I'm sure you might consider not divorcing, but living apart. 275 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.000 Maybe you decide, well, you know what the truth is. I don't 276 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.079 want to divorce you. I just want to be me and I want to 277 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:25.799 travel more. I want to go to this place or do that. Let's 278 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.960 downsize into a tiny little apartment. Let's sell the house and each of us 279 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.599 split the money and travel separately, or take up whatever hobby we've always wanted 280 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:38.000 to do. Maybe you find a way to keep one foot in that relationship 281 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:44.920 because the attachment is so fulfilling to you. I do want to remind you 282 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.240 that the bills are not over yet. When the kid turns eighteen, you've 283 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:52.519 got college payments, You've got retirement plans to consider, So you do need 284 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.160 to sit down and talk about how you can be creative. And I also 285 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.079 want you to think of instead of thinking of it as the end of a 286 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.880 marriage, how about it's the evolution of your marriage. It's time as long 287 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:08.839 as you keep communicating, as long as you stay respectful. I know that's 288 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:14.400 the hard part. You're going to have to discuss the tender subjects like holiday 289 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:18.240 and family celebrations, especially what happens if one of you gets another partner and 290 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:22.039 the other doesn't, and now a holiday shows up, is the other partner 291 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.480 invited? I would think you have to have open arms and be welcoming. 292 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.200 Also, remember to keep your greater support system intact, work, friends, 293 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:34.119 family, other friends, and explain to your friends. Your friends are going 294 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.160 to be confused and they might move away from you because they think it's all 295 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.440 too weird. So you have to explain to them how you would like to 296 00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.960 socialize, especially if you've got new partners. Do you want to socialize as 297 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.440 a couple with your old couple friends or do you want to bring the new 298 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.200 partners in or one or the other at each side. You got to tell 299 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:56.799 people otherwise you're going to be ostracized. All right, Hopefully this empty nest 300 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:02.000 divorce isn't showing up because suddenly you've been eat it on. But sometimes that's 301 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:06.880 how people do announce that they're leaving a relationship, right, infidelity. So 302 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:11.359 when we come back, let us talk about, according to research, things 303 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:18.119 not to do. If you've recently been cheated on m you're listening to the 304 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:21.839 Doctor Wendy Walls Show on kf I AM six forty. We're live everywhere on 305 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:26.279 the iHeartRadio Appum, you're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf I 306 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:30.640 AM six forty AFI Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. 307 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:34.039 This is the Doctor Wendy Walls Show producer Kayla. Have you ever been 308 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:40.119 cheated on? Yeah? Of course. How would you describe the feelings you 309 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:42.480 had? Oh, it hurts your insights so like they're falling out, you 310 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.599 start to shake, you can't eat, you can't sleep. It's awful times. 311 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.440 How'd you find out by the way, going through the phone, going 312 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.359 through the social media, girls coming up to me, I have all the 313 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:59.119 stories. See, I have never been cheated on, which means I just 314 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:04.559 refuse to acknowledge that I've been cheated on. In other words, my fear 315 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:11.079 of abandonment is so great that I'm not intrusive. It's like I could never 316 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.640 go through the phone because what if I found out? And so it is 317 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.400 my fear of cheating that allows them to flip and get away with it. 318 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.039 Problem probably, I mean, I don't know. I just try to I 319 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:25.400 can't. I can't even go there. It's so distressful to me to think 320 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:29.319 about it. Turns out, according to research, about fifty four percent of 321 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.559 monogamous adults have experienced a cheating episode, and, like producer kaylage Is said, 322 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:41.880 this sense of betrayal, loss, jealousy, sadness, rage insecurity like 323 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:48.640 what's wrong with me? Mistrust of future relationships that can go on forever. 324 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:55.039 You have to know that extra pair bonding, as evolutionary psychologists might call it, 325 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:59.640 has happened since the beginning of time with humans, and it is sadly 326 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.839 a mating strategy to For men, it helps them spread their seed. For 327 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.880 women, it helps them cuphold have a you know, maybe they have a 328 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:15.200 rich husband, and so they get better genes from the pool boy or the 329 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:21.680 actor model, whatever trainer, and then they have the rich husband unknowingly raise 330 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.599 that's why these guys design paternity tests. Okay, to try to keep off 331 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:33.160 it. But the feelings you have are real. Because we value our mates. 332 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:38.440 We have invested in them, hopefully they've invested in us. We may 333 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:44.119 have children together. In maintaining a household together, it's a big sense of 334 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:48.000 loss. Now, I do want to say this. There have been couples 335 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:56.319 who have told me that their episode of infidelity was the best thing that ever 336 00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.559 happened in their relationship. In the sands, Well, if they broke up, 337 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.039 it's because now they know. Why be the walking dead walking around not 338 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:11.640 knowing your relationship Just Okay, I'm busted, it's over. But other couples 339 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.240 use it as a gift to get closer. It's a wake up call. 340 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:21.000 It's a chance for them to go to couples therapy and do the work right. 341 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:27.200 And some couples have said that they've eventually built greater intimacy and closeness through 342 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:33.160 learning how to forgive, through making amends. But I will say this, 343 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:38.160 it's really hard to get to that place of forgiveness and love again. If 344 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:45.319 you do any of these things right after you've been cheated on, Okay, 345 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:49.160 Kayla, did you do this? Did you hurt yourself by getting too much 346 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:53.400 nitty gritty detail about what happened? Yes? Yeah, so we do. 347 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:59.039 It's like we can't stop ourselves. But if you're focusing on who, how, 348 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.720 when, etc. Instead, if you care about the relationship and you 349 00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:10.039 wondering whether it can be salvaged, your focus should be saying to your partner 350 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.400 what part of you were you chasing? What were you hoping to find there 351 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:21.799 that doesn't exist in our relationship? And also, how do you see our 352 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.680 future? Now? Put it on them right. Also, if they can't 353 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.480 have constructive communication about this, you've lost your intimate bond or maybe you never 354 00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.599 even had one before, so you're gonna have a harder time. All right, 355 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.599 here's another thing not to do besides don't get too much information. Don't 356 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:41.839 retaliate. I know, retribution sex feels like it's gonna feel so good, 357 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:45.640 but it only makes things worse. Because my mother would say, two wrongs 358 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:48.720 don't make a right, because then there are now two affairs to recover from. 359 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:52.759 Here's a big one. I see a lot of people doing it nowadays, 360 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:59.319 so wrong. Don't process on social media. Publicly shaming your partner is 361 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.240 going to make an any kind of reconciliation and any kind of healing almost impossible 362 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:08.480 because then you've got to get past that other wound. And speaking of processing, 363 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:14.519 also, don't process with your single friends who don't support your relationship. 364 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:17.960 I mean, if they're invested in keeping you single or getting you back on 365 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.240 the single market, these are not the people you should be talking to. 366 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.799 But I do want to say this, don't forget to grieve because you know 367 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:33.720 what has just died your old relationship. There may be the birth of a 368 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.359 new relationship. It may be coming, whether it's with a new person or 369 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:44.559 or reviving your relationship with your significant other. But if you are constantly pining 370 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:48.319 away for what was I remember one time this woman friend of mine, her 371 00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.920 husband had had an affair on her, and like two years later, she 372 00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.559 was still crying about it and whining and complaint like she was stuck in the 373 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:02.920 pain. Take the time to grieve and know that something new is growing. 374 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.680 Also, don't believe the saying wants a cheater always a cheater. That's a 375 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:14.880 stereotype. Now it'll be different if the person is a chronic cheater. Okay, 376 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.200 if this is the tenth time they've cheated, you have my full permission, 377 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:18.119 go go, go, what do you do it? And stay in 378 00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.799 there. But however, if it's the first time it's happened in your relationship, 379 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.880 I like to think of it as a messenger. It's a wake up 380 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.319 call. It's telling you that your relationship is in crisis and something needs to 381 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.799 happen. And during this time, while you're trying to heal and grow, 382 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:40.160 don't think you're stupid for staying. You're staying to do the work. You're 383 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.079 trying to do the right things to rebuild the relationship. But I want to 384 00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.799 addwin caveat if you want to get to a place of forgiveness, forgiveness isn't 385 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:53.160 about forgetting and pretending like it didn't happen. It's about now understanding all the 386 00:29:53.240 --> 00:30:00.000 vulnerabilities in your relationship, making changes together as a team to avoid these vulnerable 387 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.599 situations. It might mean that nobody goes on a business trip without the other 388 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.519 accompany them, or it might mean that you don't have separate single friends to 389 00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:14.319 go hang out with. What you're doing now is you're building a whole new 390 00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:21.640 house because the house has crumbled down, it has fallen apart, and if 391 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:26.440 you value this partner, it is a unique opportunity to build it again, 392 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:32.119 brick by brick, hopefully in the hands of a licensed couples therapist. All 393 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:36.119 right, when we come back. I cannot believe, Producer Kayla, some 394 00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.880 of the questions that were sent to me this week on social media. I 395 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.079 have to answer them. You won't believe some of the things that people wrote 396 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.279 to me. You are listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and KFI AM 397 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:52.160 six forty with live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to Doctor 398 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.400 Wendy Walls. You can always hear us live on kf I Am six forty 399 00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:00.359 from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.