So the next uh, And I see everyone's questions. I favorite some of
them. We're gonna get to the teams like the captain the Bulls, don't
worry Kevin marsh Wiseman in Detroit is interesting. Sadiq Bay to Atlanta. What
did you make of that stat series of events? The Warriors getting back GP
two? So many second round picks that I didn't even have the details of
in the moment, like the exact you know, protections and years on them
that we're moving around. What did you make of the start with the Warrior's
perspectives? I think that's the biggest one. You they saved all this luxury
attack money for next season. Mostly they only saved like seven million luxury tax
this year. I think it's twenty five or twenty four million next year.
What did you make of what happened there? Yeah, I think I think
it's complicated. Like I love just as a fan, and I like,
I love the team, and I loved Gary Payton last year, so that
the fact that he's back is awesome, Like he gives me the feels.
I think that's a that's a fun thing. And he like he's gonna make
them better. He understands how to play in the system, all that stuff.
Just fucking resign the guy last offseason, so then you're not having you
know, like that's and they could have done it. They had his early
bird rights he ended up getting. He ended up going to Portland for less
than the Warriors could have paid him had they wanted to keep him. I
get all the tax stuff. I get that. It certainly sounds like,
based on some Warriors Twitter research, like this was very much Bob Myers finally
convincing Joe Lacob that Wiseman ain't it and even tell him I'm convinced he went
rogue, and then lacopad out on Twitter, and I think maybe there's some
that rings a little bit true to me. So it may not have been
the case that they could have. Maybe that may have been ownership saying you
cannot bring back Gary Payton at this number just because the tax is so exorbitant.
So from the Warriors side, like it's a real concession, it's an
admission of failure. It's an admission that James Wiseman was not going to be
helpful in the timeline that mattered to them, and Peyton is gonna help so
fine for Detroit. It seems like people are down on this, but like
with where the Pistons are and FK Retro, it's a terrible move for the
Pistons, Like why why don't you want a number two pick that was buried
on a bench and never given a chance like to learn on the fly because
the team was trying to win championships like and the end was hurt, Like
why don't you want like one, like an A plus athlete that's seven foot
one like like Pistons like or Pistons fans, like where do you think your
team is? Exactly? Like this is this is exactly the guy you should
be taking a shot on. I don't care if you have I don't care
if you have a whole roster full of centers, Like this is a guy
you need to get a look at because the upside is still what it is,
which is this guy's a freak athlete that might be really good in like
three years and yeah, Pistons, you can wait that long. Like that's
this So I'm shitting the Pistons in a way, but it's mostly because like
you should love this, like this should this should be the type of guy
you want any team that's rebuilding should be going after someone like Wiseman. I
mean, as bad as he's looked, I still feel that way. I
just there they want to play him with Durn or start him, which is
weird. Maybe they're just concerned about Durn's foul trouble. I get the upside
play. I just like, what are we doing here with Marvin Bagley and
Isaiah Stewart and Barren and James Wiseman and so I don't you know, as
M Stevens nine one two says, I love it for the Pistons bilow improof
stock trade asset next year or resigning a discount, how many people probably felt
that way about Marvin Bagley. I'm looking with that deal turn into after he
stood out for them, not this guy, not me. I mean,
Bagley was a terrible move. That doesn't mean you can't go get go,
make it a good one. I agree, But it was also just like,
so you were that out on sad not you, but the Pistons were
that out on Sadick Bay, which I kind of get watching him this year,
and it got to a point where he just never felt as plugin play
as he should be on offense. Yet his defense kind of outstripped his defense.
And so what I do like about this and we see, uh,
you know, Brett Burnett says Piston shouldn't move Bowyon Bogdanovitch for more picks.
He also says that they should have you know, added to that, hang
on to bowieon Bodonovitch seems weird. What I will say is, if you
are gonna have Wiseman and Durhan and then even like Jade and Ivy and Killian
Hayes to some extent, I get why you keep Alec Burks and Bowyon Bogdanovitch.
And so when we're talking about the realm of teams that maybe should have
done more, if you're you're gonna have cap space this year, still,
I think there will be an urgency to win games for better or worse.
As long as you're not doing anything impulsive or overly expensive, why not like
keep the shooting around a healthy Kade, Ivy, Killian Hayes and then these
like triple big lineups that I guess you're gonna run out or whatever. And
so I get why Bogdonovitch will be important to kind of if you want to
run a bunch of pick and Roll with John Duran and James Watson, Like,
yeah, you space the space the hell out of four around those guys,
And so I don't mind them keeping Bodonovitch. We don't know what the
offers where. I mean, look at what look at what these other non
stars went for. There was no like the Lakers gave up that twenty twenty
seven pick. It was protected, expired immediately, and like you got backed
Beasley and Vanderbilt and Dianzel Russell as part of that deal. And for everything
we were seeing is the Pistons wanted unprotected first for Boyan. They probably didn't
even have that on the table, and if they did, it was probably
just one that was going to be in the bottom five anyway. So I
get that he will never be more valuable than he is right now. That
value just might not have been like there. So I'm I'm fine with it.
I just don't understand what's going to happen in the front court with Detroit
moving, Folk moving. I'm surprised. I did a buy yourself for br
the other day, and one of the rumors was, you know, the
Pistons basically, you know, they don't want to trade him. They are
still having these crazy offers, and I sold it. I was like,
someone is gonna come along. This is before, this is back, this
is back in the ancient days of like Tuesday, when we when we were
like, well, this deadline is not a war years timelines ago? Is
that three so many? I mean, well you're measuring it in light years
for starters, so that's like really more of a distance thing than that time.
But I thought like someone's gonna offer the first because there's so many teams
that Boyan could fit on and they'll trade him, like this is all just
really good posturing by Detroit. Turns out no, I really think, I
really think the offers weren't there. And that's that's surprising because if there was
a good unprotected first, like you gotta move that guy, I mean,
I just him on the Grizzlies instead of Canard, but they probably were pmorro
clatching your picks would be yeah right, So I just I'm surprised. I
mean, there were several teams that didn't didn't do what we expected them to
do. The Pistons certainly aren't the most prominent one. You know, Toronto
takes that cake. But this is I think It's how you want a rebuilding
team to act. Though I don't think the move isn't bad unless you were
really high on Sadiq Bay. You didn't give up. He has another year
left on his rookie scale. But why has been just like the sheer upside
play? And when have we ever seen like, when's the last person who
had that blend of physical tools outright fail? I mean, I mean health
is a different story. But if you're healthy and had that like meld the
physical tools, when's the last one that we said, like, when's the
last guy in that vein who just failed and wasn't complete flop? I mean
to me, I think the I think the definitive, the right, the
fair take on Wiseman is I think the upside is very much still there,
which is like this is a guy where maybe you know, six years from
now you look back and say, yeah, he absolutely should have been second
in that draft, but like he was not going to reach anything close because
of his inexperience and because of his injury and because there are real issues with
like his feel he doesn't know where to be. This is all like all
this stuff that maybe you worry is not teachable, Like maybe he's just a
seven foot athlete and is just not a basketball player, Like that's that's possible,
But the upside still is what it is. Like, I just he
was never going to reach it with the Warriors at a time that it would
have mattered to them. So let somebody else, Let the Pistons or whatever
is next team after this is like, maybe he gets there for them.
I think it's easy to dump on the guy just because, like the plus
minus numbers are awful, and like his rebounding is just you watch you watch
him play and you're just like, this guy just can't do it. But
some of it's not his fault, and some of it is just like,
well, how do you think a guy that played three college games and got
thrust into the most complicated offensive system in the league that was trying to win
a champion, Like how how should he look? You know? It's so
yeah, I agree that the physical tools just just are what we should care
about. And so yeah, if that means you give up Sidick Bay,
who didn't feel like the Pistons were that high on him, I guess basically,
you know, relative to maybe how they would have viewed him at this
time last year, I think his stock had fallen pretty considerably, probably because
right around well, a couple of months from now, a year ago,
he went for like fifty that one night against Orlando. But yeah, I
love it for I love it for the Pistons. I just there's like,
why wouldn't you do this? I don't know, that's I'm just repeating myself.
Now, they're two other teams involved, not in this specific deal,
but like connected to it. Where the Hawks get Sadiq Bay after sending out
they want him sinking out justin Holiday Frank commits game five second round picks.
I think they wind up sending out And then you also had the Blazers who
sent out Gary Payton the second and really quickly on the Hawks, what did
you think on the Sadiq Bay play? And they definitely they were looking at
cutting costs this season for for sure, but what did you make of them
rolling the dice on him. I think it's a it's a decent it's a
decent get. I mean, like, you know, one of the guys
you mentioned Holiday, I think might have been expected to play some rotation minutes
and he just wasn't. So I think I think some death at that position
really you know, was necessary. I think DeAndre Hunter has had a lot
of injury issues in the past, and that's I think Bay is a guy
that if you get him on, you've got him on his rookie scale deal.
You may or may not give him minutes, but like to a much
lesser extent than Wiseman, like the upsides there, like how far are we
really from him improving just enough to offensively to be like break even and shoot
thirty seven percent from three Like that's not and then you're a valuable guy at
a position the Hawk's need. So yeah, like that's I think that that
works out just fine for them. I was surprised at how strongly. And
so we have two comments on this, one of them ties into the Bulls,
but Huck said the Bulls and the Blazers should be relegated. And then
Ian, who does cut up video clips for us, so shout out Ian
message me and discords saying Jeremy Grant's not resigning with the Blazers in the summer,
Dame's gonna ask for a trade this summer market down, And so I
was and then someone I think it was Ian actually mentioned me on Twitter Blazer
would get a f because they're cronianning up the trade deadline or whatever it is.
And it's you trade Gary Payton a second, you trade Josh Hart,
you end up with that protected Nick's future first round pick. You have the
Cam Reddish flyer, the Matisse Thybel flyer. You were linked at Jared Vanderbilt
heavily. I was told that that deal was basically done, and I remained
skeptical, and it turns out that I was right. You got five second
round picks. I think it's the balance. So like when you kind of
try to measure their trade deadline in some here, like it looks you know,
it's I guess it is weird, so like, but it's is it?
I don't know how to phrase it. Is it malpractice the way that
I think some people are are framing it? And I think I have it
written down on So this is from Sean Hikin map. This out from Rose
Garden Report covers the Blazers does a fantastic job. They essentially turned GP to
Josh Hart and a twenty twenty nine second rounder into Reddish tie ball Archidiaconoho I
think is going to be brought out Kevin Knox five Golden State second rounders and
a lottery protected twenty or five second rounders from Golden State but by way of
Atlanta, and a lottery protected twenty twenty three first round pick from the Knicks.
I don't know if that's like super inspiring, but is that malpractice?
It's not that bad. The peyton, the peyton aspect of it is harder
to understand. But the heart thing, like they just I don't think he
was going to be back right that, Like the Knicks are now facing that
issue of like what do we do with this guy that has this He's gonna
opt out and then it can be like a mutual option or there's it's just
a weird deal that potentially hart just you don't have any team control over this
guy. So like the heart thing I get. I don't know if it
rises to the level of malpractice to me, but I did file something today
that predicted Damian Lillard would be on the shortlist of guys that next trade market
is very much in the mix. So like I guess, I guess I
could just because you know, the Blazers aren't good, They're not a contender.
The whole point was to build a contender around Dame this year. Certainly
this deadline did not further that effort. So yeah, I think I think
that's a totally rational thing to take away from Portland's deadline and its season,
you know, at large, but I can't. I mean, there's nothing
like, there's nothing crippling that they did, right, It's just disappointing as
all, which you know, I kind of get that. I'm just like,
and they have flyers on tie ball and Reddish, but they're bulls going
to be recipree agents. You're not gonna pay both of them. But having
the Knicks first round pick, if it conveys, helps you because you're freaking
that lottery protected one too. The Bulls protected through twenty twenty eight. Just
you talk about bad protections. That's just into the distance. Is just a
disaster. I wanted to do this before we move on, and I think
it kind of ties into I'll use the Lakers as the impetus here, but
looking post trade deadline, I want to play would you take the Lakers over
them in the Western Conference right now to finish above them in the standings,
So the Oklahoma City Thunder, I would take the Lakers. Yeah, the
Utah Jazz oh yeah, the Portland Trailblazers. M I don't have the standings
in front of me. Do you have in front of you? How close
are they? So Lakers are with every team that I'm gonna name, the
Lakers are within four losses of I think I probably would put the Lakers over
the Blazers, The Warriors, m hm, No, I don't think so.
The Timberwolves. No, the Pelicans ooh hot, take yes, Oh
okay, the Sun's I'm assuming that's the hell. No, the Clippers,
No, this one might be interesting. The Mavericks, the fun that's a
fun one because we've got the real downside potential. Right Luke, I mean
Luke injury doesn't seem he's gonna I think he's gonna play tomorrow. No,
I don't think so. That's a big gap. What the Lakers have a
ton of ground. Four losses. That's a close one. But I can't
get I can't get the Lakers up there. I feel like there was one
other team before we got into the teams. Oh yeah, we have to.
We have to talk about this team. I thought they were one of
the biggest, if not losers, the biggest oddities of the trade deadline.
The Raptors. Brett Burnett says they scored with Yacco Peardle. They we know
they had apparently three first round picks from Memphis the Indiana. I wonder,
I guess they could have just been offering Cleveland and Boston's first round picks,
which are gonna be bottom ten, plus one of their own. So that's
not too flashing if Benn and Maths not involved. That's how you sort of
make it look like you were offering more than you actually did. What did
you they give up that twenty four first round pick for Yacca Peardle that's protected
for two seasons, Like, just weird your tenth in the East when you
make that trade? And I just what do you now? You have so
Fred Vanfleet and Gary Trent junior player options. Unless you just assume that one
or both of them are gonna pick up those deals, you're kind of just
like, Okay, they need to get paid. Yacca Peardle is going to
get paid. The there was mentions rival executives per the athlete. I think
he'll get twenty million. I'll be flabber fucking gasted if he gets that much
money. But you have to pay him Siakam is going to be extension eligible
again, and then you have O Gianna Noby who's extension eligible, but people
don't think he'll sign it just because of the extension rules and only getting one
hundred and twenty percent raise might not be enough. They like, wow,
what do you make of? What? How they I guess internally evaluated themselves
both now and moving forward. So I think charitably you could say that's how
you know it's gonna be like yeah, as a preamble. Charitably you could
say they looked at the core they have and said and decided we really were
just just a defense first, like rim protecting rebounding center away from kind of
everything else working better, like making more sense, which like there's probably some
logic to that, So Purtle fits. I think he addresses a lot of
what doesn't work well in in Toronto. The price they paid was too high,
and especially because maybe it won't be twenty million a year, but presumably
you're just you're keeping him. This is a second tour, so they're familiar
enough with him to know they like him. And I don't know what that's
gonna cost, but it's gonna cost something, and it's probably gonna cost more
than you should pay a non stretch, non switch center, even you know,
even though he's you know, one of the better versions of that type
of player in the league. But then in conjunction with the Trent and van
Fleet free agency specter, like you could just lose these guys I hate.
So this is I don't know why. It always really kind of my antenna
goes up, and it really like I get anxious when it's this particular situation
of you might lose this guy for nothing, or you might overpay, have
to overpay to keep him, like to be like, that's just I don't
want any part of those types of decisions. So it's like to go back
to the Wolves, like get rid of dealo, if that's the position you're
gonna put yourself in this offseason. So van Fleet and Trent are both in
that bucket. Maybe they will be back, and maybe this team will just
be crazy expensive before Annonobe's next contract and or Sakham's potential Supermac's extension, Like,
good lord, they're gonna have a tough couple off seasons coming up.
But when the alternative was maybe you start moving some of these guys and you
bring back, Like, what do we think if they traded van Fleet,
Trent, and og we're talking five firsts like net maybe like some you know,
depending on the quality and considering where they are in the standings, Like
that's sort of if you just didn't know any of the particulars, you'd say,
here's the team with this record in these pieces, what should it do?
You'd say, we'll go get the picks. I think maybe the picks
weren't there. So it's a little disappointing. It's a little confusing and it's
surprising, But like, I don't know, I it's hard to it's hard
to be that critical. They are a loser at the deadline, for sure.
It's hard to be as critical as I might want to be, not
knowing what really they could have gone for Ananobi or van Fleet or Trent.
I think I'm just more well so then standing pat doesn't necessarily bother me.
And there's also when you look at van Fleet and Harry Trench Junior, like
the sign and trade possibilities are still on the table. Sure for the summer,
maybe they don't leave. Like when you look at the teams with cap
space, Yeah, maybe Orlando would get involved the Lakers aren't going to be
using cap space anymore, we don't think, so if you want to get
them to certain teams, I think sign and trade scenarios will be in play.
The one that I think they may have missed on, but you also
could just keep him is og and Anobi. I don't think his value is
going to be higher than it is right now, in very much part because
he's gonna be an expiring contract functionally next year, so who's gonna give you
that many first round picks? And maybe over the off season still, so
you're kicking the can. That's fine. The Yaka Peartle edition was interesting because
I don't know he hasn't been as good defensively this year as normal. I
think a lot of that has to do with the spurs. Just like asking
him to have these heavy lifts. Can still stuff around the elbows on offense,
good screen setter for you, gros streetings all over the place, So
I get how he could help, But was he and you didn't have to
go up this year's first round pick and you would have protected it anyway,
So like you're not if you do decide to bottom out, it's just when
you look at giving like they treated themselves like they are yaka purtle away from
being in an irritant in the East. And this season specifically, their ceiling
is seven, right, Like they're not catching at the heat or thirty and
twenty five in the sixth seed. The Raptors are twenty six and thirty,
So they're four and a half games back as we record this, and they're
they're still even. They're four games back of the Knicks at seven. Like
you're not you're you're not getting out of you might get out of the play
in but like you're not getting out of play in territory. And that's just
a you know, we didn't kill the Lakers for trading a first round pick
when they're thirteenth in the West. But I do think the ceiling on the
Lakers this season is higher than what the Raptors is, unless we're just like
really missing on what they could be healthy. Yeah, I think that's right.
I think it's funny, Like I think you and I both have been
pretty like bought in on the Raptors just generally speaking over the last three four
years, you know, thinking they're better than their record, or you know,
who's really dangerous, or you know, like that type of thing,
and I still just part of me still does feel that way because on paper
there is like I mean, Van Vleet Trent and and Obi siaka Barnes and
now like there's real that team should be better and they do have a positive
point differential, by the way, even though they're four games under five hundred,
Like, I think they are better than that fifty points. Lacking of
the knicks a month ago or whatever one that probably didn't hurt. But but
I do think, like we do, we also have enough information now over
multiple seasons that there are just real systemic flaws with this particular type of roster.
And so you know that that sort of augured, you know, towards
a shake up. The fact that they didn't, I guess, you know,
it's not unreasonable to think that Barnes Will Barnes is having a down year
I think, or at least is perceived to be having a down year,
and maybe here lately, Yeah, he's better lately, and maybe maybe that's
the difference. Maybe Peartle makes a little difference. So yeah, I mean,
Huck's asking will Peartle call come off the bench? He better not.
I assume he's gonna start. He's closing games for them? What's that is
he closing games for them? Well? I mean I don't know. He's
got the free throw issues. That's one thing, like, well, let's
get the Raptors in some games that actually matter first before we care about this.
Oh my god. Well right, so, I mean they're charitably Grant
thinks that the Raptors are a fraud of a franchise, and everybody needs to
go charitably charatably. I was gonna go ahead, I was gonna do you
want to talk about the Bulls since everybody seems to want to stay on the
disappointing stand patterns. Yeah, so you know, m Bell must sixty three
twenty what happened with the Bulls? No movement at all? Brett Burnett,
Bulls should have dumped Lavigne and he was kind of like involved in rumors towards
the they don't They didn't seem super substantiated. What was he linked to the
nets and the nets momentarily and the Knicks. So what did you make of
the Bulls doing nothing? I think was was not surprising. Maybe the real
surprise that they didn't buy that was the real surprise that we didn't like that
I've been I feel like I've been so one note negative on the Bulls basically
since the Vuchevitch trade that I don't really have anything. By the way,
they've been linked to russ when you brought out from your top. Sure I
believe that. I guess again, it seems I will, So I'm gonna
kind of back off before I get to this this answer. Like I wonder
if Kevin Durant getting traded like fucked everything else up like from Annaobi to like
on down, like maybe because maybe teams said, like okay, market set,
that's four first and like two good young wings and under you know,
team control and a and a crowder that we could flip for other assets like
okay, cool, So Annonobe now, like what's he worth? And like
the Bulls had to be maybe just like that through a wrench in and just
prevented things that we thought would happen from happening, like Annon Obi or like
the Bulls doing something. I don't know, but anyway, I think this
Bull's roster just is what it is. I think Lavine de rosen Vukovich like
this is just you know, they're twenty six and twenty nine, there have
been injuries, but like this is just what they are. And if I'm
running a franchise and this applies to the Wizards too, I guess who are
twenty five and twenty nine, They're just right there. Like I don't want
this. I don't want to be in this section of the league. I
don't think you know, it's it's it's it's hack. It's hack at this
point, like we've been this, the mediocrity treadmill has been something we've talked
about for fifteen years. Uh so you would think that the Bulls maybe the
Bulls don't think they're on it, or maybe they're prod it. Like I
just I just think if if you could have done something, whether that's moving
de Rosen, whether that's moving Lavin, and whether it's moving Vukovitch before free
agency, whether that's seeing if you really want to go lean farther into it,
see what's out there for Patrick Williams, Like I don't know, Like
that's your other that's the other direction you could go. Yeah, the Bulls
just aren't seemingly interested in going one way or the other. They're just gonna
kind of hang out here. And as with Lavigne on that deal. That's
a similar to Beale in Washington, although not as bad. This is just
kind of where you're gonna be. So yeah, I get it if you're
disappointed as a Bulls fan for sure, Yeah, you would have liked to
have seen them. I think pivoting into a more gradual time I would have
been more encouraging. And I just what is the I don't know what the
endgame here is anymore. What's the path to them getting substantially better? And
it's not if you want to say internal development, it would be Lonzo Ball
gets and stays healthy and then Patrick Williams just hits. But it's like you're
now you're gonna pay voos over the summer. You're kind of in the bird
rights trap there with him, and then if you don't, it's like,
well, look at what you gave up to get him, and then he's
just leaving. You are like, convey your pick to Orlando this year.
So that is now just okay, you're over and done with it. You
can move forward. You still the obligation to San Antonio in twenty twenty five
though, so it's not going to happen via trade because like, yeah,
I guess they could trade distant first round picks. I just think maybe it
wasn't a missed opportunity because you mentioned Kevin Durant getting moved, and maybe,
like the it'll be they will have more suitors for Lavine and de Rosan over
the off season when teams are just more flexible. And so if the plan
is to just convey the pick, like zero out your obligation to Orlando,
you have the San Antonio obligation on the books, and then they're gonna explore
it this offseason, I'll be like okay with it. But I just don't
know what the internal evaluation of this team is and do they really think that
they have a pathway to being a top four team in the East anytime soon?
Like what is again, this is the third time? What is the
pathway to this? It's not just it can't just be Lonzo Ball gets and
stays healthy. I know they were thermonuclear a year last year with him,
But like, Okay, the Bucks aren't going anywhere, The Celtics aren't going
anywhere, The Sixers aren't going anywhere. Those are three teams right there.
I mean maybe the Nets go somewhere. So there's like there is Cleveland's not
gonna go anywhere, so there's there's room to move up throughout the East,
but like there's room to move down. And it's just like they're what the
Bulls have become is they've always been here where it just seems like they don't
understand where they actually are or how good they actually are. They overestimate themselves.
But there's just something very hilariously hopelessly wizards and hornets in about what the
Bulls are doing right now to where it's almost like now it's not that we
at least they had a semi feasible pathway last year. It seems like to
getting like why wouldn't you trade Patrick Williams last year when his trade value is
probably at his apex? I know this is why we fall in love with
young players and the mystique of what they could be them just I will reserve,
I won't ether them completely until we get to the offseason and see what
they do. But I have no faith that they're gonna go. It should
be the nuclear rebuilding route and just blow this thing to smithereens. Yeah,
that's a good point to make that applies to basically anyone we designated as a
deadline loser, which is like, it's not like, you know, there's
no transaction or roster changes after February ninth. It's like all these teams could
have just decided now is not the time. I mean, like this is
giving them too much credit. But the Bulls could have said, like we
internally, we do know where we are. We don't like it now,
it's just not the time to do it. And maybe that time is the
offseason. Maybe Toronto feels that way too. You made a great point about
sign and trade options essentially with their with their impending free agents, like that,
that's all part of it. But like we got to evaluate what happened
at the deadline, because that is when stuff happens. You know, there's
two points in the season where things you know, get done, and this
is one of them. And so that's just that's just you can't say that
the Bulls came out of this any better than they went into it, and
that's disappointing just on its space. One more team I wanted to be sure
that, well more teams want to be sure they get to I think this
one could be super quick. Cleveland pac Leers shout out a long time follower
and or discord Cavs went thermal nuclear af today and did nothing. And then
from Brett Burnett Calves doing nothing as smart get and stay healthy, as they're
already good. All teams who made trades will have to find their chemistry Calves
already have it and contend. Then I think, look, if you said
all of this to me a few weeks ago before Isaaca Coro just went kaboom
on offense and carousel Vert has even looked better, I might have pushed back
and said, well, they need to go out and get a Gary Trench
Junior. I don't know if they could have gotten him based off what Toronto
was asking for, just based off what they were asking for OG and what
they asked the Clippers for apparently for Fred van Fleet doesn't seem like it was
even remotely gettable. I'm I think I'm kind of I'm fine with them doing
nothing, and they could be like what if they got Danny Green on the
buyout market or they were just an holiday team it might have been. I
would have liked to have seen them get in on like some of the wings
that were available, but the ones they got moved. Look at Jalen McDaniels,
look at Cam Reddish, look at Matist five ball. None of them
really brought what Cleveland needed most. Jay Crowder, who's not even really a
wing at this point. Yeah, I think. I mean, I mentioned,
you know, when we're talking about the Suns as like a you know,
a top tier buyout destination, the Calves are there too, because if
you're any good at all, maybe Danny Green is the name again that sticks
out. If you're any good at all, the Calves can basically say,
I mean, you can come here and take this starting small forward spot.
Maybe that's less true because the Korro You're like, you're not kidding. I
mean, forty seven point six percent from deep in January, and that's you
know, he doesn't shoot a million of him, but he's twenty and forty
two and he's six out of ten so far in February. Like he's not
gonna get a ton of them up. But if he can defend and he
can make a few threes, like that's really all they need from this position,
that's really all. And then Lavert kind of does his own. He's
on the ball. He's a different type of player, but like I think
probably, I don't think it would be fair. Maybe some people are disappointed
or would call the Calves a deadline loser because they had we talked about it
at nauseum, like this is the small forward position for the Calves is the
one around the league that needs to be filled. And like that's a little
less true because of a coral and because of LeVert than it was you know
for most of the season, specifically because the coro has been better. But
it's like the guys that move just I don't know, I mean, it
wouldn't have been an upgrade, so you know it is. It is surprising
just because we spent so much time talking about the issue with the small forward
spot. But like, you know, again put it this way, like
I don't know that it's not like the same thing as the Bulls. You
know, there's no room to move up. I don't know that the Calves
have what it takes to be like you know, there's there's Boston and Milwaukee
and the Calves would really just have to play out of their minds to sort
of be on that level. I think certainly, given like a lot of
the playoff inexperience, everyone besides Mitchell has on that team, so you know,
maybe the timing is not there, But yeah, I don't know.
Were you surprised they didn't do anything like would they would have been a team
I'd expected to at least find a do something to get a wing in there
based off how the dev hunt when it doesn't surprise me, just again looking
at who got moved, and maybe they fancy, like you said, they're
gonna be an appealing buyout destination because maybe minutes aren't as available as we're making
them out to be because of Lavert and a Korro And then Dean Wade comes
back and is shooting like three percent from three and they might just assume that
they have enough. And the other thing that you kind of sort of alluded
to and even Brett Burnett does in the chat on the screen, Cavs really
good. So it's just deaf and little tweaks stay healthy, and they will
contend they got Spider and that deal and that was their deal pretty much Garland
and Spider or for real that deal for Mitchell or the Cavs forget about the
trade. Their timeline's not right now. It is right now, but it's
also both like this is bigger picture, like what you've seen from Evan Mobley
this season, I think is like quietly we were talking about I don't think
we Kendrick Perkins is talking about regression. I look at Evan Mobley and I'm
like, it's it's incrementally better, But look at how good he was last
season. To improve an increments is a big fucking deal. And so they
don't like given the complications to a trade, they might be a team that
can explore sign and trade scenarios over the off season. They actually they're slaying
for some cap space this year as of right now, depending on what happens
with la Vert, so they can just they'll have a better idea of what
they are after this year. And the Mitchell trade was never about just this
season. It was about playing the longer game. So you don't need if
that move just wasn't out there, Like if they could have gotten Malik Beasley
for what they had with the Jazz have done a coro for Malik Beasley and
Filler, I mean maybe that would have been interesting, but Beasley hasn't shot
the ball too well from three, And if that deal was on the table,
I might have had a conversation I might have been Okay, well let's
talk about this, but it's clear that maybe they didn't want to be in
on that, just given what Beasley ended up fetching in the aggregate or the
Jets probably just wanted the distant first. And why are you going to help
out the Calves? Again, this actually helps out the Caves. I think
there's like a low key element of presenting Conley to the Timberwolves to kind of
help submarine and accelerate their long term demise. You wouldn't have had that with
Beasley to Calves. So I just think when you're looking at their timeline,
which is still gradual, the fact that they can straddle two lines is a
benefit to them, and I think it affords them some level of patients that
other teams, regardless of whether it's win Now or like the Raptors where we
think that they were at a crossroads, the Calves just aren't there. Yeah,
I mean, it's it's a luxury that it's worked this well, this
quickly for them, just because other than Mitchell, there are other you know,
there are other three core guys, Alan, Mowbley and Garland are so
young, Like I mean, it's yeah, I get it. Like,
man, they're pretty close. I wish they'd just gotten that piece to get
them over the top. But really, like, you know, just enjoy
this and then know the next year is probably going to be better, and
the year after that potentially so. So yeah, and they've got plenty of
avenues to improve. And honestly, like I really do think and if I'm
the Calves, I would feel this way too. I really want to give
a Coro every opportunity because all the reports are like this guy works his ass
off, like he really you know, he's a he's a guy that the
franchise really likes, and so I want him to be the one that just
takes this position and makes us look back on it as can you remember,
can you believe we really didn't think he was going to be able to handle
like a three and D role on a title contender, Like That's that's what
the franchise wants, I think, and that's what I would want. Because
you invested the fifth pick in this guy, you gotta give him. You
know, it's been a little longer than you might want. If you're the
Calves, then the signs have been maybe fewer and further between. Then you
prefer but they're kind of there now, and so I think a little more
patience is the right call. Uh, I'm with you. There were I
wanted to finish this in ninety minutes, but their view of time and there
are two teams that I wanted to get to quick. Let's see the Sacramental
Kings doing nothing. Are you fine with that? What do you what do
you make of it? Well, it's a little bit like the Calves thing
where you need a defensive wing, right, or maybe you don't need the
three quite so much because they got plenty of shooting in offense. But but
I just think maybe the guys weren't out there, like you know, let's
just throw the name out again, like what would would they have paid what
it costs to get Ann and Obi? And should they have? Like you
heard Crowder linked to them, and it's like you get to merit them for
that. Would you have done? People didn't like my idea where with Keegan
Murray and at a first round pick or two first round I mean it would
have been Kegan Murray in two first round picks Rogan Andobi? Would you have
done that? People in sacrament I love Keegan Murray so like you're just good.
But yeah, no, I mean I would have thought about it.
I think I think the only scenario in which this King's team really like does
anything but get beat in the first round is finding enough defense to compete in
a playoff series. Just the offense is awesome, it's just I mean,
they are just they can't stop anybody. It's just that's just the personnel just
isn't there. It's it's like not a scheme thing, it's not. It's
just these guys aren't good defenders. That's all it is. So I guess
I'm disappointed. But again, like I don't know who that piece type,
you know what typele would have been someone that I would have really like to
see them try to go get because it wasn't gonna cost much and he knew
the Sixers were going to move him to duck the tax, you know,
something like that. But even then, when you're saying, I mean,
it's not like he's the missing piece, right, like he's very much a
flyer at this stage, but he just happens to really defend. So I
don't know, But Bran Brynet says, Kings blew it shouldn't. Yeah,
Vando be another guy. Maybe that was the name that's in table of course,
which is like, well, looking at what they actually went for,
but Vando, the value was folded into getting that Laker's pick, so I
understand why that might have. The Jazz would been like, yeah, like
whatever, we don't care about your seconds that you're offering us. And there's
just like when you look at the players that were moved, the Reddish wouldn't
have done it for me. Again, Vando would have. I just don't
think he was gettable given what the Jazz were prioritizing the Lakers pick. And
then it's like, okay, well then who Josh Richardson is the name that
I look at seeing what he went for, and I think that was a
to talk about the Pelicans a little bit. I thought that was a home
run trade for New Orleans. Just you get off DeVante Graham's deal, you
four second round picks, but Josh for justson helps you like that. His
volume from three is real volume relative to New Orleans is volume. He gives
you positional defensive flexibility at the one through like he can cover one through four,
you don't want him playing the four necessarily. So that was the name
could they have got they weren't going to get it on the Josh Hart swep
stage. She shouldn't be giving up a protected first round pick for him.
I don't think the Nicks should have given up a first round pick for him.
So those are there were names there. I am wondering if they're in
the same vein of the calves as they needed different things. Even though the
spot, like their area of need was similar, the type of players that
need is different. Do they become like I don't know who gets brought out,
but are they just an intriguing buyout destination for someone who's like, why
want minutes on a team that's actually relevant? And news flash, like the
Kings are still third in the West. And so there's also the element of
yes, the margin for error is thin, but this thing ain't broken.
Don't fuck with it like you if you need to make a hole or sale
decision, go ahead and just do that over the off season when you understand
where you actually finished the season, what you look like once you get to
the playoff. So I saw fans were disappointed. I saw some media members
or bloggers or podcasters not killing them, but just saying, well, how
did the Kings do nothing, and it's just like, well, yeah,
they weren't encumbered a little bit because of that picked the Hawks, but like,
what was the move if you weren't going to go all in for an
og An and Nobi, And maybe the Raptors would have said no to that
based off like what were the offers were hearing? They refused, so if
you wanted them to make like a lower level move, whereas well, did
they call the Pacers about o Shabri set Like I'm just throwing names out there
that could have been Gary Harris. We knew the King. He's smaller,
but we knew the Magic. We're never gonna move him. He's under contract
for next year and they they're probably gonna try and be pretty good pretty soon.
This felt very always to me, unless you were gonna try and go
the O G route, which they weren't linked to him, and I thought
at least that I saw and I thought they should have been. But unless
you were gonna make that type of move, there was just nothing for them
to do other than these flyer plays and where I don't think, you know,
missing out again Richardson Tybell van Dough. I just don't know if they
would have had enough to get given what happened with the Lakers. Are those
missed opportunities Like those are like interesting what ifs, but they're not like opportunities
run run a foul. Yeah no, I think to me, there's a
very easily imaginable scenario where we get back on the familiar horse of like can
you believe how stupid the Kings were and like how desperate they got and how
you know, like like that they've been subject to that criticism, Like anytime
there's a glimmer of hope, it's like, we'll trade you anything. We're
trying to win forty one games this year. You know, this is different,
I think because they've made good decisions. I mean, we can relitigate
the Halibert and Sabonis thing if you want, but like and let's not let's
do that another time. But but like they've made enough good decisions to where
now this season is a wild success. Like literally, no matter what happens,
barring they somehow slipped like to the plane or something like this, it's
a win. There's like there's they've got a coach that they like. They
I'm pretty sure they extended Monty McNair. So like there's stability, there's less
urgency, like this is it's okay that they didn't do something. It would
have been cool to do something on the margins, but like I do think
it's almost like a sign of growth, like they're the Kings have matured.
They're not just like desperately freaking out and like, let's make the most of
this right now because they realize they have a good thing and they don't need
to like they don't need to go nuts to maximize this, Like it's already
good. Now, let's operate like a normal franchise and just kind of,
you know, add the pieces as they become available and not really stretched for
the ones that might or might not fit. Uh. The other team I
want to talk about was the Nick Surprise, Surprise, I went in on
the Heart trade without you the other night? Uh to was that? What
night was that? Who fuck it was? Wednesday? Was that? I
don't know what is they were? They linked to Zach Lavigan towards the end,
but the package was never Joe Cally of the Chicago Sun Times, who
you know, I don't know what his hit rate is. Let's just put
it kindly that that way, like the specifics were never dropped, but it
was apparently over clap at home. Players involved was the report, and like,
well, that's the entire fucking trade backers that his draft equity and players
involved. What do you make of the Josh Hart trade? What do you
make of them keeping Obie topping past the deadline? What do you make of
them being linked to zach Lavine? Maybe it was just a I'm not this
is not I'm genuinely curious here. I'm not about to kill them. I
would not have given up the moon for zach Lavine. But the point is
maybe they didn't like maybe the talks were just so low level that the Knicks
were viewing him as like, well, a distressed asset almost like let's try
and and look the name we didn't get to when we talk about the hawk,
by the way, we should have distress. Ask them when we think
of poor Ton Collins, Oh, Don Collins, He's gotta be like,
really, guys, still like where I'm just where I'm here? Now?
Still is this like you couldn't get so before we get to the next like
the fingers that I think I haven't we haven't talked enough about the finger injury
Collins had last year that seems maybe is the reason why he's not shooting the
ball well. And then like maybe that's just maybe teams around the league just
know that and they're like, he's now a twenty five percent three point shooter
and that's just what he is, and therefore we're not giving up shit like
that Like that, that, to me is the first explanation I've heard that
makes any sense as to why the Hawks can't get some like modicum of positive
value for him. But yeah, poor John Collins, he's stuck for the
Knicks. Like, yeah, I get like heart. I think Heart's gonna
be good for them down the stretch of this season. I think, you
know, he's very much a TIBs guy. I'll rebound the shit out of
the ball. He's gonna play hard. Hopefully he'll remember he's allowed to shoot
threes and make them occasionally. But the contract situation is what it is,
Like, I don't know if this is like a long term thing where they're
just like, yeah, we're definitely gonna keep him around three point shooting.
Is if he's sub thirty one percent this year and he's always I call him,
maybe he's graduated, or maybe he's what would be the opposite of graduating.
Maybe he's been flunked out of first team all shoots worth than you think
from play well, I mean, unless you just only judged him on his
last little chunk of the season with Portland last year, when he couldn't miss
and was just putting up twenties every night. Yeah. No, I this
doesn't like move me in any significant way. I think the lottery protection on
the first like they're gonna I mean that that's so you. I mean,
I just I don't know, it doesn't It doesn't make a big difference to
me, Like I think, honestly though, if the alternative were the Knicks
went swung big and went for someone like Lavine or Lavine specifically, I would
feel worse about their deadline, just because I don't think Lavine is someone you
want to invest in. But yeah, I don't know. I didn't hear.
I didn't admit I didn't hear what you thought about the Heart trade.
But it doesn't. I think it's gonna help him be a little better this
year, and then it has the potential to just like not matter at all
or look like a waste of assets. Down the line, and that's where
I kind of landed because I don't think you should be paying heart. And
then it's also you look at their depth chart, it's like, okay,
well they're not overrun with wings. But like you have Quinton Grimes, you
have RJ. Barrett, now you have Josh Hart. I think getting heart
kind of means that Deuce McBride's like time in the rotation is just like over
which is you know, he can't he can't really hit a three at the
moment either, So I get that. I don't. It wasn't a move
I disliked. It was just one that was sort of, okay, are
you gonna ever play those three guys together? Heart, Grimes and Barrett,
because if you're not, again you have imagine they can run out I will
say some really fierce defensive lineups now because of RJ. Barrett's regression, there
wouldn't surprise like we're gonna be seeing games where it's like Grimes and Heart or
closing and Barretts on the bench because you're Robinson and Randall and Brunson, and
so that creates sort of a weird like I guess that's where the weird dynamic
is for me is the heart Barrett Grimes. And maybe I'm reading too much
into it being overkill, but because both Grimes and Barrett are such a prominent
part of what you're trying to do long term, introducing someone who is such
a tips guy and would warrant minutes and who's going to be a free agent.
So what you gave up to me that wasn't rental material because it was
you didn't get off bad money in this. I don't care that you gave
up. It amounts to two conditional first round picks for Heart when you factor
in Reddish, I don't like that's the sun cost. You move out of
it, We move on. I just I guess I'm puzzled, perplexed,
whatever the word is. And I'm not super just like I'm not convinced that
his fit on offense. I like he has that transition cadence can finish well
at the rim, great rebounder as I love his fit in some respects,
but I also don't see it a lot of the times necessarily on offense,
And I'm not I don't want to read too much into Josh Hart does not
signal, oh well are they out on RJ. Barrett, but depending on
what it costs to keep him. That is something that I'm going to be
monitoring. And maybe RJ. Barrett was always kind of he was linked to
the Dona Mitchell trade talks. That was always the guy that would as now
salary filler over the summer because then when his new deal kicks in that you're
going to that you're going to move as part of a blockbuster package. Maybe
I'm just projecting forward too much. It was just it was an interesting talent
play. I just don't I'm not fully I'm not fully with it. It's
just I'm equivocating here. I don't hate it, but I don't love it.
And if I had to pick one, I would probably skew towards disliking
it. I just I definitely don't necessarily understand it, which is I guess
that's something I could say about a lot of Knicks moves. But I was
look, I was a skeptical about I didn't think the bruns and money was
bad. I just wasn't high on his fit and the mode of operations that
went there. I was clearly wrong, and we're all clearly wrong eight times
over on Julius Randall tennis balling back and forth on what he was going to
be. So I'm open to the idea that I could be wrong and look
defensive lineups with I mean, the spacing is gonna be iffy, but Grimes,
Heart Robinson and then just I would put quickly in there, like so
d let's just say and then I don't care who the fifth is, Like
is Randall? A part of that is our data, A part of that.
You could throw Brunson in there. You could do some shit. So
I'm excited about that. But I'm just this is just very like we want
to continue to be in the middle, but they didn't give up any long
term equity, so staying in the middle of this year is fine. I'm
just trying to figure out in my mind, and you could tell us the
Knicks, because I'm rambling incoherently right now, what is division here beyond this
season? And I don't It hasn't fully materialized yet, and I think we've
moved beyond the point. Well, they have all these assets that they're stockpiling
for a star and it's look, we've just proven to some degree in the
Mitchell talks, whether the Knicks got lucky or drew a line in the sand.
These conditional first round picks from other teams that you had weren't super valuable.
Now you have quickly and toppin who are coming up on extension eligibility.
That's going to dwindle their trade value down a little bit. I don't know
if RJ. Barrett is more or less or the same value on his new
deal than he was before. I think right now, if I had to
pick, and this is someone who supported the extension, I think he's less
valuable. So I've pinballed back and forth on him too. I just don't
know. I don't know what the endgame here. We know what the end
game is supposed to be. I just don't necessarily see the pathway to them
getting there. And the fact that they checked in on Levine makes me a
little nervous because we do know they offered a ship ton for Donovan Mitchell.
If you offer anything near that for Zach Levine, I'm hashtag concerned. I
don't think they did, just from what I understand, but I would be
hashtag concerned. So I just I'm they baffle me, and not in a
hopeless way, just in a I'm genuinely morbidly intrigued. Away. It's better
to be like, huh, I'm curious about this. Then oh god,
I don't. I don't like where this is going. Their plan is.
I could tell you what their plan is. It's not that complicated. It's
that damn it. Paul de Lara has just gave him my plan away.
This is what it is. So you got heart now because brun you know,
to play with Brunson, You're gonna give up four first round picks from
Michale Bridges this offseason, and then you're gonna sign Dante de Vincenzo when he
becomes available. And then that came back. The fifth Villanova player that I
can't think of is that Kyle Lowry. Sure bring him on. He's worth
thirty million, right, just to complete the Villanova quintet. What's wrong with
that? Yeah? So if there's any last minute question in the chat,
I think we should get out here. I wanted to finish though, by
asking what was your biggest surprise or most under the radar trade deadline, whether
it's move team overall our team theme. Oh, I mean the second round
pick stuff was pretty nuts, right, Like just the idea of five seconds
going and more than like what that bucked Crowder trade. I know with the
second are Eric nam of name of a reported I STI don't know where they're
going. I don't think like which ones are going where that that was wild.
It's kind of funny, like we've lost the thread of what first rounders
are worth after the Gobert and Mitchell trades and now it's like now we don't
know what seconds are worth or where they are. The other thing, we
didn't really talk about the Sixers. This is just kind of a low key
like they did really well. I mean, they ducked the tacks. They
they basically replaced Missy Sybel with Jalen McDaniels, who I think it's at least
a conversation. I think most people would probably say McDaniels is a better player
or is you know, projects to be better. He is going to hit
free agency, so you gotta deal with that. But the Sixers, you
know, got a guy I think that they might have a better chance of
playing, and he's cheaper, and they have room now for a buyout player
as well. So like just small stuff. But I think the Sixers did
really well. We didn't really give them their flowers. I'm with you on
the Sixers. I also think we're gonna look back, and maybe we won't,
but look back as sort of the Josh Richardson to New Orleans move.
It's just a really solid one. The Blazers give themselves more flexibility under the
luxury taxi in the summer while getting a player who actually helps them here.
Interesting that they kept Jackson Hayes too, so are they're gonna look at bringing
him back in richards free agency? I thought he was someone that might get
moved, but I like that we've seen them tumble down the standings during Zion
zapp since the offense is clearly an issue Josh Richardson or at least a three
point volume is. We don't really know how sustainable their full strength minutes are
because there's so few and far between at this point, but their top end
outcome is still just like Championship of Contender. I mean, they were like
at the top of the Western Conference not too long ago. So I like
getting a player who helps you now without really mortgaging any chunk of your future
and then sort of increasing your wig over and moving forward. It wouldn't shock
me if it depends on the finances. But if Josh Richardson that's someone that
stays with them beyond, I think he'll be fairly in demand, but he
can stay with them beyond the season. And I think there's insofar as they're
willing to experiment with lineups that don't include Jonas Valancunis once they get fully healthy.
The addition to Josh Richinson that just gives you opens up all sorts of
of avenues and so like if Herb Jones really isn't cutting it on offense,
or if Tyson Daniels is just someone you don't trust in the playoffs, I'm
there with Murphy the third. I trust the hell out of that. Yeah,
I've seen him do things where I'm like, why would you ever trade
him for O? G N and Obi? Because the Pelicans like, no,
let me keep Trey Murphy, but I might be too high on him,
so they can run out of a lot of interesting lunch. I think
that that was just a as. I just thought that was a very under
the radar and it kind of floated beneath the flow of all the other chaos,
just all right, Like the Pelicans didn't make the all in play we
don't know if they should this season relative to where they are, and Josh
Richardson's going to help and so I I really liked that move. But then
they also got off with Graham's money. He has next year at twelve plus
million and then he's guaranteed two point five in the final year. You're just
out of that and it didn't cost you first round equity to do it.
Yeah, that's the real key because we've you know that, we've talked all
of the year about how the Pelicans have all these picks piled up, what
are they gonna do with them? And like the right answer is, well,
don't give them up to just get off, you know, eleven and
twelve million dollars of bad money, hang onto those. So so yeah,
that's a for sure, that's a that's a win by them. Do you
want to do you have anything else to add or do you want to take
us out? This will be and I'm gonna just cut the outro twice and
put it up. This is going to be a two part podcast. There's
gonna release it on the same day, but we went almost two hours here.
Thank you to everyone who joined us. But do you want to you
want to take us out of the twenty twenty three NBA trade demine is officially
totally, completely, unequivocally over. It is a rap, and we will
soon start talking about the twenty twenty four deadline, because that's how the industry
works. But yes, everybody, thank you for getting in this chat,
for following us on socials, for subscribing. May If you have not done
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Subscribe to us. Follow us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox, same handle
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That's always cool too. But yes, thanks everybody for everything. We love
doing this and this is like the weirdest, wildest time of the year,
so we're both sleep crived and exhausted and probably set a thousand wrong things,
and thank you for bearing with us. Do that until next time. We
take it out by acknowledging Frank Millikina, who's a great human being, was
not discussed again today, much to our dismay, and apologizing as always to
share it out