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Hello, everyone, Welcome to the
latest episode of Hardwood Knocks, as well

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as the first episode coming to you
between the NBA's regular season and the play

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and Tournament slash postseason. It's an
exciting time of year as we gear up

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for the most meaningful games on the
basketball calendar, and we couldn't be more

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excited, and we're both looking behind
and forward in this episode as we dive

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into our all defensive teams and all
rookie teams. We already covered all NBA

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squads in a previous episode, so
if you haven't heard that one, go

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ahead and check it out, as
well as subscribe to the podcast to make

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sure you're not missing any other episodes. We're available basically everywhere at that point.

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Dan, I'll have more details on
that later, but we're also going

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into some mail back questions as well, which are inevitably looking back at the

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regular season and forward into the postseason. So a lot of stuff to be

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excited about in this episode, even
though there were some difficult choices as always

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on these all whatever teams. Before
we dive into any of that, I

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have to ask our resident Tank,
Dan, how's it going. I am

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tired. I am also helped someone
move a very modest amount of furniture into

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their new house yesterday, so I
could barely get through my leg workout today.

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Years old, and I'm not happy
about it. That kind of invalidates

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the tank thing. Yeah, Dad, Look, I've been posting this will

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be a great plug. Go follow
us everywhere YouTube, Hardwood Knox, They're

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all on the description Instagram at Hardwood, Underscore Knox, TikTok at Hardwood Knox.

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I've been posting exclusive content to IG
and TikTok this past week, so

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I'll try and do that a couple
of times a week. And someone reached

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out ben I will name their full
name and said that they agreed with my

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thoughts on the Lakers and that I
was looking like a tank. I immediately

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told Adam about it. I also
told my older sister, who's a workout

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freak as well. She says,
I think that means fat, and then

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I had a few choice words for
her after she said that. But so

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that was fun, but I did
not feel like a tank today. I

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felt very old. How are you
doing, I'm good, got to go

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on a nice hike this morning.
Ready to talk some basketball. It's been

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a weird week for me. You
know, we there're some some work stuff

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that came up towards the end of
the week and we had to have some

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layoffs of people who I really like
in respect at the end of the week

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at sports casting. So shout out
to all of them. You know,

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if if you're looking for for good
writers both about basketball and other sports,

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go give them follows. I would
echo all that we're gonna get into the

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all Rookie All defense stuff first,
Which one did you and we'll go through

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quickly since the regular season is over
and we went in depth on all NBA

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all the awards already. Specifically,
I think like everyone who listened to that

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podcast kind of knows where this is
going. But you want to start there

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All Rookie, Yeah, so all
Rookie first Team. I think it's pretty

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obvious. At least for the first
four spots, I would say Scotty Barnes,

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Evan Mobile Kid Cunningham, and then
Friends Wagner. Wagner isn't quite in

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that same top tier as the other
three for the Rookie of the Year race.

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His scoring talent has just been on
full display all season long. He's

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played a pretty big role for an
admittedly struggling Orlando Magic team. He if

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he isn't on your first team,
you've filled out the ballot wrong. You

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should go back and fix that.
The fifth spot is the one that I

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thought was at least a little bit
up in the air. If you want

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to make an argument for Josh Giddy
given the passing he's put on display for

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the Thunder throughout the season, I
get it. If you want to have

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Jalen Green, who has just been
a phenomenal lights out scorer for the Houston

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Rockets during the second half of the
season, likewise, I get it.

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I still view these awards as recognition
of the totality of the season, which

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is why I still have Herb Jones
earning that final first team spot. One

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of the best perimeter defenders in the
NBA this season, he just seems to

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appear out of nowhere to disrupt passing, lands gets his hands in all sorts

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of places you just wouldn't expect during
the flow of a normal possession. Just

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incredibly disruptive and also pretty good on
the ball for a first year guy with

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some offensive skill, even if that's
by no means his calling card. So

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it wasn't an easy decision to put
him here, but it also wasn't like

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a difficult one for me. Yeah, I mean you have to I view

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it like you do when I'm looking
at the totality of the seasons, and

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it really I struggled with the Jalen
Green versus Herb Jones thing on the first

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team, specifically because Jalen Green has
been lights out over the past two months

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or so. But you also have
to look at the difficulty that was ascribed

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to his offensive role that Herb Jones
doesn't have. Now. With that in

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mind, it was a difficult role
for Jalen Green, but it was also

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a freedom that a lot of other
players don't get to enjoy as well.

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And I think you have to look
at it as like, you know,

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Herb Jones was among like players who
actually logged at least a thousand minutes this

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year. He was in the top
five of matchup difficulty on defense. That

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matters that. I think we can
all agree that great offense is going to

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be more valuable in great defense.
But you had one of the hardest,

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highest volume defensive roles in the league
as a rookie. I ended up putting

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him there too, especially because I
thought as the season one otis he showed

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just enough on offense to make it
easier I think for me than it was

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for you. I'm gonna go into
my second I had the same exact first

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team as you, so I'm gonna
give you. I'm gonna give you who's

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on my second team. And I'm
curious just to know what your honorable mentions

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would be, because I know you
went to a third team. I have

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Jalen Green, Ioda soon move Bones
Highland, Josh Giddy, and Alpern Shangoon.

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I thought about Jonathan cominga here,
but I don't think he My last

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inclusion was Shangoon, who's been really
good, just sort of a lower vau

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role. And he also though the
totality of his work probably outstrips that of

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Bonen's Highland two. So those are
probably like the two that could have been

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bounced if he really wanted to.
But I just don't know that Kminga really

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had like a steady enough role.
And I will say the one that I

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think you, I think Josh Giddy's
a have to have to have to include.

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I don't want to say I think
he's become overrated, but like you

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know, he was get sub fifty
crew shooting is not great. The one

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that has to be on here is
Io hum Lou just absolutely because we consider

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him for the first team. iOS
like guarding every position. And it wasn't

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just like he was able to like
he was handling the ball for Chicago,

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he was making passes, like serving
as like the primary playmaker at times.

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I can get version of the bulls
too, Yeah, not just like the

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lesser one that we've seen in recent
weeks. Right, And it was also

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I mean it was born from necessity
because they had so many injuries, but

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like that's even more important that he
came in was able to have that type

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of impact. Leaving him off the
first team was also like, really,

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my only discrepancy was I did have
Sangun on my honorable mentions my de facto

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third team, in favor of Kminga, And that's the debate I had internally.

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Ultimately, I think Cominga did enough
in high leverage situations because he started

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to fill a bigger role when the
Warriors were suffering through some injuries and trying

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to stay afloat in the top half
of the Western Conference, that he did

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play some impactful, meaningful minutes and
looked good doing it an easier role most

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likely, but the minutes mattered.
Schangun peaked pretty early and just has either

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flown beneath the radar or just not
quite been as effective at various points throughout

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the second half of the season,
just kind of lost a little bit of

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steam. Still obviously looks like a
long term rotation player, high end rotation

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player in Houston. The other honorable
mentions I had because I did do that

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third team, so Changun headlined it, but then I had Austin Reeves,

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Chris Dreezer Williams, and have to
give a shout out to Jose Alvarado,

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who if he had gotten this role
that he's had midway through the season as

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opposed to in the final third of
the season, he might be displacing someone

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on the second team, because what
a what a find undrafted out of Georgia

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Tech. Some of the plays that
he's put together where he kind of hides

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in the corner and then snakes behind
a guy and steals steals it as they're

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dribbling up the court. So smart, so unique, and it's it's been

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really fun to watch him carve out
a big role d Warnte was a really

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tough person to leave out of this. He was entirely he was. That

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was the I mentioned Cominga, but
the ones that I have in notes,

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he's right there and I thought about
putting him over Shango for some reason.

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Bones Highland was more of a no
brainer inclusion for me than Shane oun So.

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I don't I don't really know what
that says that it was. It

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was really super tough. I think
most might probably have Bones Highlands out and

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would put Christa warn't they in would
be my guess, we're our biggest discrepancies.

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It's gonna be an interesting one there. I think that it'll be two

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of the three between Highland, shen
Gun and Comega. Nothing for Davion Mitchell,

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for you. I actually wanted to
find a way to include him,

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but bumped him out for Austin Reeves
for the final spot on my third team.

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Yeah, I mean Austome Reaves are
even Trey Man Desert. I don't

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know if you mentioned him. If
he did, then I did not apologize.

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But this this rookie class is so
fun and so deep they are,

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I mean even beyond the names we
are throwing out now there there are more

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who looked like they will like Kesler
Edwards is just it's like you look at

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this and and Jose Alvarado, by
the way, was a good mention.

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He's a very entertaining watch if anyone
is really into just like small dude who

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work their asses off. Jose Alvarado
is is the guy. But like you

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just look at and I know he
wasn't in this draft class or anyone who's

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gonna be like, well, actually, when you just go up and down

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like the names, I don't know
if this is super recency biased, but

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you go through just like the rookies
that have played minutes this year, and

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it's like, are there like forty
rotation players from right grass cat right.

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The other thing is like he didn't
have a big role. I really love

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Jaalen Johnson in Atlanta. I think
that's someone who's gonna wind up panning out.

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And perhaps this and Usman Gruba in
Houston, like perhaps this is all

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just like Hunky, I still believe
in him even if he's gonna be fine.

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Yeah too, and so uh yeah, this is rookie. This is

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gonna be interesting. And I know
John Hollinger at Athletic actually already wrote about

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this. But if we like I
want, well, I don't want to

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because I'll be old again. I
feel washed now. But skip ahead like

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three or five years and then go
look back at this rookie class. That's

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gonna be an interesting exercise. So
I'll start us off with first team All

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defense since you did first team All
Rookie. Uh. I had Michael Bridges

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and my defensive player of the Year, so of course he was going to

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be a first team guard for me. Related positions are stupid and we should

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get rid of them. Marcus Smart
was my other guard. I think that

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should make you happy. I had
Rudy Gobears my center, Jannis as a

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forward, and that Jet and Jackson
Junior as my other forward. I do

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think we've had this mention in the
discord a few times, and I've seen

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Grizzlies Twitter get like. I don't
want to say up in arms because that's

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a criticism, but Grizzly Twitter has
come out and said Jaren Jackson Junior needs

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more support for defensive player of the
Year. I don't necessarily disagree. He's

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been spectacular. He was not my
defensive player the year. I don't even

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think I had him in my top
three. I went back and watched more.

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Maybe he would, but I feel
like there's certain simplicity to not simplicity.

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This is gonna get me in so
much trouble. I just when I'm

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looking at Gobert Jannis and Michael Bridges, I view their roles as exponentially harder

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than what Jaron Jackson Junior did in
Memphis, and he was. He kept

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line up to float without Morant.
He kept line up to float without Morant

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like even playing in certain games.
That's part of why the Grizzlies were so

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good. So I don't want to
take away anything for him. He's on

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my first team all defense. If
you disagree with anything I said, he's

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still paid my first team all defense. You put the shovel down eventually there.

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It took some time, but you
got it. You got it.

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Yeah. I just I was surprised
at how people I think even I've seen

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some people that hadn't at one other
defensive Player of the Year rank. I

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that was just surprising for me.
I think that's fine this year where there

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are like six candidates where I think
you can reasonably argue them at number one.

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I had the same guards Marcus s
Martin mchaeal Bridges. My forwards,

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I had Jannis and bam Adebayo,
though Jaren Jackson Junior was a tough exclusion

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there, and I had Robert Williams
the third at my center spot. So

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they're all such minor discrepancies here because
everyone you mentioned who I didn't have is

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on my second team. My second
team, I had Fred van Fleet,

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Matisse Tyble, Jaren Jackson Junior,
Joel Embiid if he's eligible at forward for

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all NBA then we can do the
same here, and then Rudy Gobert.

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So all the same names, just
slightly different orders. So my second team

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sort of deviated. I never Robert
Williams any my all defensive teams. Well,

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you're just wrong. I still think
he's your most egregious Awards pick would

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be would be my default here.
But so my second team guards were Drew

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Holiday and Fred van Fleet. I
know Drew Holiday. There are points where

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I don't know that he struggled,
but it was just he couldn't be as

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aggressive as I think he was as
he used to be because of what was

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happening behind him. But he adjusted
to that and he's still one of the

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just most unstopped. You included only
like the last month, that he's a

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first steamer for sure. I mean, if you put Drew Holiday, I'm

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trying to think of who I would
bounce. He wouldn't mean agreed, just

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pick. If you said, hey, Drew Holiday needs to be on there

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over, I mean Marcus Martin,
Mikhel Bridges not I, I'd probably push

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back against that. So I tracked
that I think you can Micael Bridge just

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to forward and you'd be fine.
There you go just quietly. A defensive

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monster too, has that Kyle Lowry
energy to him where it's just like defend

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at all costs, even to the
detriment of his body. It does feel

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like sometimes. So that was this
was the guard spot that gave me trouble.

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I haven't teased Tibos a forward.
I don't know if he's gonna be

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eligible forward, but he should be. If he's not, positions are dumb.

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If he's not, I would have
had him over Van Fleet to make

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that clear. And I would have
probably went with Joel Embiid, who did

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not make it. Because I have
Bam Matabayo and Evan Mobley's around on my

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front court. I think either of
them will be eligible at center. I

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think Bam has played more center than
Evan Mobley, who spent a ton of

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time alongside Jared Allen. The stuff
Mobley has done, and he would be

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the first rookie to make an All
Defense even since Tim Nuncan, which happened

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quite a while ago. I can't
just get off of how like all encompassing

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his role is where it's like he's
a wing and he's a guard, but

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he can also be a big.
And I know there's been some drop off

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from the Cavaliers when they don't have
Jared Allen, but he's still been able

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to keep certain lineups afloat just the
positional It's not even malluability, it's just

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obfuscation in what he does. Like
I can watch him play defense and just

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come away exhausted from that experience and
impressed obviously at howat By no means an

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ingregious inclusion for my third team my
honorable mentions I had Drew Holiday, her

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Jones, Evan Mobley, Al Horford, and Jared Allen. So again,

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like minor discrepancies, Mobley's incredible.
I think that I feel like there's a

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chance that either him or Herb Jones
makes this Probably Mobley is the better candidate

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for the actual voters, just because
he has been in the spotlight for a

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much larger portion of this season,
even though herb Jones, I would argue,

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has been every bit as good,
maybe in a slightly less impactful role,

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just because he doesn't spend time around
the rim like Mobiley does. But

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Holiday and Mobley were the two toughest
for me to not include on my actual

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second team. I did consider putting
Herb Jones over Van Fleet, where I

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would have moved Tip with the guard, and I was just like, I

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don't know if I was too much
of a coward to have two rookies on

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the all defensive team, but that
is something that I actually consider, yeah,

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deservedly. So let's get into the
mailbag, and we'll start with and

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I'm going back here because we haven't
done a mailbag in a while, we've

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been so busy with other podcasts.
And we'll begin with the Discord questions.

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At X, Patty asked for our
biggest disappointment of the season and biggest surprise

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of the season. At X Patty
gave theirs, which was how dominant the

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Suns have been in the clutch was
their biggest surprise, and the biggest disappointment

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was the Lakers, but also not
really getting to see the Bulls all healthy.

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00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:26,759
Yeah, I think my biggest disappointment, I say while wearing an Atlanta

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Hawks hat, has been the Hawks
because I fully expected this team, which

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featured so much continuity, most significantly
from every notable player who did a lot

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00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,840
of good things during the Eastern Conference
Finals run that ended at the hands of

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the Milwaukee Bucks last season, to
be back in that top half of the

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Eastern Conference, maybe even competing for
a top two seed. And instead the

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Hawks are. You know, I
have not paid attention to the scorers yet

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today, but they're they're in the
Plan Tournament. I don't know exactly what

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number it's going to be, we
will at the time of this being released,

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so apologies for the lack of detail
there, but they do have to

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play in the Play Attorney just to
make the postseason proper, and that is

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a massive disappointment. Trey Young has
had an incredible season, but it feels

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like everyone else around him has not. Clint Capella has really been unable to

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00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,759
perform like he did last year.
I think he came into the year a

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little bit hobbled, struggled to get
going, just hasn't looked as explosive as

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00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:33,160
he did during that twenty twenty one
campaign, and Yekakongu has not really taken

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00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:40,359
that step forward that was necessary to
replace the diminished production from Capella. Jandre

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00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:45,000
Hunter has not taken that stride for
Cambradish no longer plays in Atlanta, even

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though he was expected to be another
breakout candidate. It feels like that that

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00:17:48,279 --> 00:17:55,119
guard rotation behind Trey Young has not
really solidified, where it's still just a

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mishmash of pieces, all of whom
struggled to find consistency. So this Hawks

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team has just been nowhere close to
the expected level. Could still be a

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00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,200
pretty tough out in the playoffs should
they make it, because Young is that

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explosive and is that good at diagnosing
a defense and adjusting how he dominates on

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offense that you do not want to
face him in a second in a seven

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game series. But this season has
just been an unmitigated disaster. I would

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argue even beyond the level of disaster
we've seen from the Lakers, who we

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were both low on picking them more
as like a team that should finish around

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00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,720
like six to eight than number one
in the Western Conference even before the season

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it started. And the Brooklyn Nets, because while they have also fallen so

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far short of expectations that at least
can be more easily explained away, we

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identified them as a as a potential
risky team to have in the very top

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of your Eastern Conference standings because of
the injury concerns. That was before Kyrie

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Irving decided that he wasn't going to
play basketball from to the season. So

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I don't view those as disappointments on
the same monumental level, I would mostly

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agree with you. I think I
actually picked the over for the Lakers.

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I don't know if I was tripping
an ascid when we did that podcast.

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So I'm just this is to call
myself on you. They are a disappointment

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though, because they were this bad, like we're talking, but the biggest

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one, so my biggest one was
actually the Hawks. I'm just gonna throw

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in some other nominations because I don't
have anything to add other than the Hawks

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defense for most of the season,
like against live balls. If you watch

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them, if they're committing a turnover, if they missed a shot it has

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to. I have not looked at
the data on this, and quite sometimes

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00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,680
I haven't needed to write about it. I would almost bet obscene amounts of

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00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,000
money that they're like in the bottom
two of the league and just live ball

289
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defense they're so bad and which is
disappointing. And addition everything you said,

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I do think the Lakers are disappointment. I think the Nets are actually a

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00:19:55,279 --> 00:19:59,799
candidate as an answer here though,
because just the way that James Harden stuff

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is out, the Kyrie Irving situation, the tone deafness of that all,

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and then just also sort of looking
at I know they were banged up and

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00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,240
now they're getting some really good play
out of Nicholas Claxton, but it was

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00:20:10,279 --> 00:20:14,960
just like their front court rotation has
been a mismatch. Their defense really deteriorated

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00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,079
as the season went on. Some
of it can be explained away by injuries.

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00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,119
That Joe Harris one is not something
that you expect. He only appears

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00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,880
in fourteen games. However, it's
like you said at the top, you

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00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,279
have to at least account for some
level of absences here because this is now

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00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:32,000
the third year and that this includes
the year that he missed the entire one

301
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,359
where Duran has missed extensive time,
you have to like that's part of it.

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00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,519
Kyrie Irving has always had stuff,
and then James Harden was dealing with

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00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:42,079
hamstring injuries before even coming into this
season. But then there's just a disappointment

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00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,160
overall because it's like you the three
Stars couldn't get on the same pit.

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00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:51,559
They were championship inevitables coming into the
season and now and during the final day

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00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:55,079
of the season they were aspiring seven
seeds. Basically is well, that's like,

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00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,960
I understand a lot of shit happened, but that still based on all

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00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,519
that, it was a disappointment to
me. I think you could also throw

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00:21:02,599 --> 00:21:08,200
in the You could maybe throw in
the Blazers. Good, no, look,

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00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,880
we both respect. I think you
can throw in the Knicks in the

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00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,759
sense that I'm not surprised they missed
the playoffs. Remember, at the beginning

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00:21:14,759 --> 00:21:18,200
of the season, my prediction was
the Raptors would win more games than the

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00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:19,839
Knicks and then win a playoff series. That might be the only prediction I

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00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,039
get right, although who knows if
they win their first round playoff series.

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00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:30,519
The Knicks are disappointing and they were
on my list because they just can't get

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00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:34,400
out of their own way. There's
always extracurricular like ass hattery going on there

317
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,640
where it's why are you giving up
a first round pick for cam Reddish?

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00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:42,039
Why was it a thing he was
dealing with injuries beforehand? Wasn't good beforehand?

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00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:45,079
And that's look, I hope cam
Reddish ends up panning out and I

320
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,319
hope he makes a lot of money
in his next contract whatever. That was

321
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,400
just like terrible management to not really
move off any veterans at the deadline.

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00:21:52,559 --> 00:21:56,680
Yes, you're still giving opportunities to
the kids now, but a person like

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Alec Burks, Yeah, his value
a little bit up in recent weeks,

324
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,680
but he might have been most valuable
leading into that. What is going on

325
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:08,279
with Julius Randall. There is there
a real disconnect between TIMS and the front

326
00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:14,000
office and just the fact that they
weren't able to sort of properly evaluate their

327
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:17,079
season in time. It took them
too long to get to the point that

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00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,839
they did. I don't think they're
the biggest disappointment because, as you said,

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00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,920
I think we expected them to regress
as a team, but progress isn't

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00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,559
linear, and they really you know
RJ. Barrett came on after the new

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00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,640
year. Aside from that, like
the team itself, when you take away

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00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,720
the record, it took too long
for them to show that more complicated progress

333
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:37,960
or at least as a team.
I'm talking about the front office or the

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00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,680
coaching staff, whatever, just the
comprehension of where they actually were at.

335
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,640
And my last one, I think
you could throw Portland in here, by

336
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,759
the way, I think that's legitimate, Utah, just the way that things

337
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:53,319
have unraveled there and their defense without
Rudego Bart has been bad. The fact

338
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,559
that they still just have a lot
of issues in transition, even when he's

339
00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:59,680
on the court, because like that, you're big, isn't going to be

340
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:03,519
able to on live balls, especially
after turnovers when he's tasked with rebounding on

341
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:07,799
the inside their perimeter. Players got
to be smarter about getting back And don't

342
00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:11,039
tell me it's like, oh,
Rudy Game missed so much time. Like

343
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:12,880
it was even when Rudy Game was
healthy and they were trying to run more

344
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,039
stuff through him, they never really
seemed married to small ball. Those lineups

345
00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,440
didn't work out as sound. Whitey
has been their backup center predominantly. I

346
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:25,480
know Daniel House has had some really
good moments there, but they did nothing

347
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:29,000
of significance at the trade deadline.
Trading Joe Angels, Ro nik Kill Alexander

348
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:30,880
Walker always to me felt like more
of a tax dump than it was,

349
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,559
Oh, we believe in nota we'll
see if I'm wrong there, And when

350
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:38,720
you have a title window that's actually
open, you need to be more aggressive

351
00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:42,039
that you're already paying the tax.
We commended or at least I did,

352
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:45,640
Utah for paying the tax. Is
that type of market in a Western conference

353
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,119
like this, you're also in a
Western conference that doesn't have a full strength

354
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:55,400
Nuggets or Clippers. The time is
now like it was like, you're already

355
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,640
operating on borrow time in a sense. So to do really nothing of significance

356
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,119
around the ted trade deadline to elevate
your championship chances to the point where now

357
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,480
we're hearing about bleacher reports. Jake
Fisher came on the podcast and said that

358
00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,279
Quinn Snyder is a real flight risk, that he doesn't know the exact terms

359
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:12,519
of his contract, but he can
be a free agent after this season.

360
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,720
If Quinn Snyder can be a free
agent after this season, my guess is

361
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:21,359
that he fucking leaves, and so
I just feel like just the jazz,

362
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,880
there's been some weird stuff behind the
scenes, and I don't even think it's

363
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,519
the Donovan, Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, whatever. They're clearly not the best

364
00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:30,519
of friends. But sometimes they eat
together. That's all that matters. Sometimes

365
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:33,039
they eat at the same table at
them, that's all that matters. I

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00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:38,759
just feel I just saying they're a
biggest disappointment. They're definitely a disappointment,

367
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:48,960
like still pushing towards still an offensive
jug or not. I know they're disappointment.

368
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,359
They're not the biggest disappointment. That's
their nomination, I know. All

369
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,480
I would say, uh, And
then I like, because I already mentioned

370
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,200
Portland is probably on that spect and
there might be some Wizards fans who are

371
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,319
disappointed based of how the start of
the season went, what's actually surprised.

372
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:07,839
I was gonna say this was not
my pick. I want to throw it

373
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:11,720
out there really quickly. The Pelicans
should be in the aforementioned discussion, and

374
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,480
they're not. They have a better
taste to be in this discussion when you

375
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,640
look at how Willie Green is like
gotten them to try in transition defense,

376
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,880
the way that they kind of dug
themselves out of the early season hole finding

377
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,119
herb Jones, Jose Alvarado. I
don't love the look of Jackson Hayes and

378
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,920
you own us out and Tune is
playing together, but there have been moments

379
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,359
where it's worked where Hayes and the
four doesn't look abysmal. Brand and Ingram

380
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,839
making a leap as a playmaker,
trying harder on defense. They are a

381
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,519
borderline pleasant surprise for me. With
the caveat of would you have guessed Zion

382
00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:45,359
wouldn't play this year exactly, the
answer would be no, because he was

383
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,960
there at media. They say he
think he's gonna be ready for the season,

384
00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:52,400
or David Griffin said that or whoever. So they're they were not my

385
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,720
pick, but I just wanted to
throw them out there. It's just it's

386
00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:57,680
impressive they could be in the discussion. Yeah, I think they absolutely should

387
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,240
be in the conversation. I would
say it, the Bulls and the Calves

388
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,599
both belong in the conversation. Memphis
belongs in the conversation, even though they

389
00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:14,119
were my biggest overlock possible going into
the year for me in the West,

390
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,799
how are they not the second West? I think they're my backup choice.

391
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:22,079
I would actually still have I still
had the Timberwolves here, because I did

392
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:29,079
not anticipate this team coming together this
quickly, in this well where all of

393
00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:34,000
a sudden we talked about how they
had to make so much progress on defense,

394
00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:37,559
In particular, Patrick Beverley, Jared
Vanderbilt and the rest of this team

395
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:42,680
have coalesced into an above average defensive
team. They're number fourteen and defensive rating,

396
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,240
Karl Anthony Town's playing with an edge, still finding a way to make

397
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:49,880
De'angelo Russell look good, Anthony Edwards
to you know, admittedly have an up

398
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,000
and down season, but the ups
have looked really good. And this is

399
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,720
a dangerous legitimate playoff team at this
point of the season, which I would

400
00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:03,359
I would have had them on the
outside of that playoff picture rather easily going

401
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,720
into the season. This is also
just a byproduct of how high I was

402
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:11,400
on Memphis, because we had offseason
argument after offseason argument in which I was

403
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,039
like, please keep this team together. I don't want to see any big

404
00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:18,720
moves. Didn't anticipate this level of
leap to number two in the Western Conference

405
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,839
and legitimate title contender. But I
think the gap between my expectations and where

406
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:29,319
the team actually sits was bigger for
Minnesota. I will abstain from ever picking

407
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:34,559
the Grizzlies over because they're just I'm
just gonna be wrong. I'm surprised you

408
00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:38,079
went with the Timberwolves because I view
this like we knew the awards where you

409
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,920
want to look at it in totality, and the Timberwolves finishing seventh is not

410
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,640
like this huge shock to me.
I thought you were gonna go with the

411
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,000
Heat being first because of all those
I mean, Jimmy Butler, Kyle Lowry,

412
00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:53,519
Bamae Bio, all this time with
injuries slash personal reasons. I actually

413
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:56,599
just went with a Grizzlies, but
their second in the West. John Misses.

414
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,839
I don't even remember how many games
he missed at this point. It

415
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:04,359
was. That's the most surprising part. Well, that plus the you know,

416
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,759
I was talking about how high I
wasn't Desmond Bane after the Summer League,

417
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:11,000
and then he just goes and blows
those expectations out of the water,

418
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:12,519
even if he slowed down a little
bit in the middle of the year and

419
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:17,200
then picked back up towards the end. I just even Zayer Williams has looked

420
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,319
a lot better than I expected this
year. Everyone thought that pick was egregious

421
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:23,480
Steven Adams. We well, maybe
we didn't annihilate them, but we were

422
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:26,240
not high on that trade at all. He comes in, and I don't

423
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,920
know that you could say he's he's
a better defender. You can say he's

424
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,079
a better defender than Joanna found Tunis. It's not so clear like oh,

425
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,599
they've fleece the Pelicans. No,
Like you know, Steven Adams was a

426
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:40,240
better fit in Memphis than he ended
up being in in New Orleans. So

427
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:44,720
I just knowing all that like their
second in the West, Like they're just

428
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:48,079
their second in the West. I
don't know how they're not the biggest surprise

429
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,640
of the year. And I understand
you were high on Memphis to begin with,

430
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,160
but I'm just looking at like even
John Moran, I never would have

431
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,079
picked him as the betting favorite for
most improved player this year because of how

432
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:04,319
good he already was. Totally fair. I think. I think if you

433
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,799
went back and listened to our off
season previews and like the over under episodes

434
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:12,319
and stuff, it would feel hypocritical
for me to pick Memphis here because I

435
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,000
was just so far in their camp
at every step of the way. I

436
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:21,079
was also gonna say Cleveland certainly belongs
here. I can't. I've seen like

437
00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:22,720
stuff from their fans on Twitter that
they're mad and how the rest of the

438
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,960
season's gone. It's like, you
dealt with all these injuries and you're ahead

439
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,000
of schedule relative like where you were
supposed that you can't. It's not all

440
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:33,880
of a sudden, Oh, this
team one game, So the fact that

441
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,720
they're not a title contender is bullshit. The bulls I was going to push

442
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:40,200
back on, but I remember how
both of us were so low on them.

443
00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:44,160
Yeah, and I think even their
best case outcome would probably be around

444
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,759
forty five forty six victories. The
thing is is they dealt with like two

445
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,759
would have been all defense players probably
and Lonzo Ball and Aus Crews a missing

446
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:56,839
a ton of time. Even beyond
that, Like we both interpreted this question

447
00:29:56,279 --> 00:30:02,039
as team centric that wasn't actually sified. I think you can make a case

448
00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:07,079
that Demarda Rosen is the single biggest
surprise this season. How many outlets had

449
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,599
him as maybe the worst free agent
move of the entire offseason, and he

450
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,319
was in the MVP discussion and is
probably going to get some back of the

451
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:21,200
ballot votes after another surge towards the
end of the year, like he's been

452
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,279
unbelievably good. I think that that
was not what was supposed to happen.

453
00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:26,680
That was a good point because he's
got and he's going to make an All

454
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:32,559
NBA team. I would be he
was one of my agonizing final picks,

455
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,559
but he's I think we both know
that, Like, he's going to make

456
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,880
the NBA team. This next question
is fascinating from strops. Where would you

457
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,039
rank a d after this feat this
season? Top fifteen, top twenty,

458
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:53,079
etc. I would still have him
in the top fifteen. Ultimately, Ultimately

459
00:30:53,119 --> 00:31:03,920
he is a ridiculously good Ra's not
He's not the Batman. He is not

460
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,920
going to Chris Middleton. He's a
honest he's the Robin got it? Yeah,

461
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,759
yeah, exactly. He's he's not
going to carry a team by himself,

462
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,079
but if you put him next to
any sort of talent, he's gonna

463
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:25,359
look really good. And he was
still an incredibly positively impactful player when available,

464
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,480
And it's the availability that's the question
more than the skill set, and

465
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:34,319
those are legitimate concerns. He's definitely
slow to recover. He's definitely, you

466
00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:38,720
know, subject to a lot of
minor ailments that keep him off the floor.

467
00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:47,119
But when he plays, he's a
top ten guy. No, he's

468
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,319
not. Let's it's it's time to
stop that, it's over, it's done.

469
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,720
He's not top ten anymore. You
need to like have some zemblins of

470
00:31:52,759 --> 00:31:56,079
self sustaining offense to be top ten. And let's let's just think about the

471
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:04,079
names, Yo, Kitch, jan
Embiid, Don Chich, Lebron, Kevin

472
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,119
Durant, Steph that's nine. You're
gonna tell me that you're picking. I

473
00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:14,759
can't. I can't fucking count to
top fifteen is more fair than top ten?

474
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,240
Well, that's what I wanted to
ask. Would you rather have Anthony

475
00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:21,160
Davis or Lebron next year? Lebron? It's not even I'm kidding. I

476
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,839
actually have questions for you that I
think kind of determined this. Yeah,

477
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,839
would you rather have? And I
feel like these, Would you rather have

478
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:36,200
next season Anthony Davis or Carl Anthony
Towns Towns? Would you rather have Anthony

479
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:42,039
Davis or Pascal Siakam? I'd still
rather have Davis Starr. That's interesting.

480
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:47,200
Would you rather have Anthony Davis or
James Harden Davis. Would you rather have

481
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,240
Anthony Davis or Paul George still Davis. I don't agree with that one.

482
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,640
I don't know that there's a pretty
it's a pretty close one Anthony Davis or

483
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:01,319
Kawhi Kawai and that bounces Davis out
of the top ten immediately there. So

484
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,880
I'll resend top ten. I'll stand
by, I stand by right around fifteen,

485
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,880
I'm just I have I have two
final ones, Anthony Davis or Trey

486
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:20,880
Young next year Davis, Wow,
Anthony Davis or Devin Booker next year Booker,

487
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:25,319
He's I would go top twenty for
me. With Davis, we gotta

488
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:29,240
stop calling him a top ten player. It's and look, maybe he comes

489
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:35,519
back and as a revenge season,
but like it's, it's time. Is

490
00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:39,720
tough because there's so much schematic difficulty
that you have to have building a team

491
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,240
around Trey and you don't have with
Davis where you just need another big,

492
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:49,000
big time talent. But it doesn't
really matter what role that big time talent

493
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:57,480
fills. Wait can So here's my
thing is that if Anthony Davis is your

494
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,079
best player versus if Trey Young is
your best player, if they're your only

495
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:07,039
stars. If they're your only stars, then you want Trey. You don't

496
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:10,159
think Treys is easy to fit alongside
other stars. I don't because I think

497
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:15,280
that if you don't put the right
pieces around him, you you cap the

498
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,199
ceiling pretty low. I'm just if
you put anything around Davis, like,

499
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,480
he's not going to lift you to
a title, but it's going to be

500
00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:24,800
a good team as long as he
stays healthy. We gotta get off this

501
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,199
session before I say something stupid,
because I'm thinking about like, would you

502
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,320
rather have Like there's Jason Tatum,
there's Jimmy Butler. Would you rather have

503
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,199
Anthy? I'd rather have Tatum.
I would rather have Davis than Butler.

504
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:37,320
I think I'm with you that,
But like, the names are getting so

505
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,400
steve that I'm about to say some
pretty egregious things about Anthony Davis ranking,

506
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,480
so I feel like we should move
on. You'd rather have Anthony Davis or

507
00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:49,400
Frank Niel Keena. Oh, that's
a Frank Neil Kina. But that's that's

508
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,760
not fair. I have to make
sure Davis or Julius Randall. Oh I

509
00:34:53,800 --> 00:35:00,000
anty Davis ats. Patty also asked
is Doc Rivers the next coach of the

510
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:04,719
Lakers who wants that gig. I
mean, there'll be coaches that want that

511
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,119
gig, because you still presume we
get the coach Lebron for at least another

512
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:12,239
two years. I don't think it's
gonna be Doc Rivers, because that would

513
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,760
be like a really bad decision.
I was just starting myself and say something

514
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,159
ridiculous. We gotta even beyond that, Like the Lakers has an organization more

515
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:27,480
so than any other, like having
their own in that role, and Doc

516
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,159
Rivers doesn't have Lakers ties. And
also it would be the right it would

517
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,519
be the wrong decision, especially if
Quinn Snyder is going to be a free

518
00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:36,599
agent, if you don't throw the
bag at him. Although I kind of

519
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:40,119
feel like what Lebron does on offense
might go against literally everything which later might

520
00:35:40,199 --> 00:35:45,079
want to do on offense. But
I don't think. Do you think Doc

521
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:47,000
Rivers will be the coach of the
sixers might be the better question next season?

522
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,280
Yeah, I do. I do. I think he. I think

523
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:58,679
he has enough time with this team. That's all right, That's fair.

524
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,920
Other questions here that we have.
This one comes from Luke j thirty seven.

525
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,039
TIBs might go from winning Coach of
the Year to getting fired the next

526
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:12,239
season. Has that ever happened before? I feel like, what does this

527
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,239
say? Sorry? Feels like when
a coach gets that kind of athlete,

528
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,920
they were often given the benefit of
the doubt at least a season or two.

529
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,719
I think Dwayne Casey would disagree.
And there was who was it in

530
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,280
Memphis that wanted that wasn't Yeager?
Who's the one before London? Lionel Hollins

531
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,880
win Coach the Year? And I
got can think? So there was a

532
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,639
point where and then Dan Tony too, there was It's not as uncommon as

533
00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:37,000
you would think. Yeah, there
was a point where Coach of the Year

534
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:46,280
felt like it was cursed. Let's
see Lionel Hollands up. The Dwayne Casey

535
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,880
one was so awkward. I remember
that the Raptors tweeting out the congratulations.

536
00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:55,280
It was just so it wasn't Hollins
because he never won Coach of the Year.

537
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,239
Then why am I missing? Why
couldn'flate? I must be complating him

538
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,360
with someone else. So, but
it happened to D'Antoni, did it not?

539
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:07,519
Yeah? Yeah, I think so. I mean things change quickly on

540
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:09,599
the coaching ranks and beyond that,
like, it's easier to escape goat to

541
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:14,519
coach than any player because you can
you know, even if you have a

542
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,920
twenty year deal with a coach,
you can cut ties and survive that.

543
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,760
You can't really do that with a
player. It's also the thing you can

544
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,679
can you can change. The Lakers
would be a perfect example. I don't

545
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,760
talk about the Lakers too much,
but just moving on from Frank Vogel is

546
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,280
exponentially easier and more controllable than moving
on from Russell Westbrook. So the first

547
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,800
time, that's the first time that
controllable and Russell Westbrook have been in the

548
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:46,840
same sentence. Next question comes from
Ben Bender fan and this was an interesting

549
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:52,920
question, Dada. Whereas it oh
for Jah's jumped to start him in year

550
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,039
three from possible All Star to top
ten? You put that in a question

551
00:37:57,079 --> 00:38:00,239
mark in the MVP race. Do
you see this happening to any one?

552
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,000
Helps cough from Mellow cough. But
in all honesty, I think the way

553
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:07,039
this is best analyzed how often do
people make that kind of jump in year

554
00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:14,840
three? Yeah? I feel like
anecdotally it's it's pretty frequently, Like that's

555
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,559
the year one, the one to
two jump is the one that people expect

556
00:38:19,559 --> 00:38:23,280
where you're going to become like a
good NBA player rather than a rookie going

557
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,800
through significant obstacles. But year two
to three, like we've talked about in

558
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,880
most completely improved player discussions, how
it might be worth ruling out those third

559
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,719
year players because that is when that
leap to like true stardom happens in a

560
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,920
lot of situations. I was just
gonna say, what makes it so unique

561
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,280
is how often does it really maybe
it happened with Luca, but how often

562
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,239
does Jaws type of leap happen,
know where he's already a top ten MVP

563
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,599
candidate by year infrequently? Definitely infrequently, And when it does, they end

564
00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:57,880
up getting that m IP love like
Ji is this year, Who do you

565
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,159
think among candidates for next year has
the best chance of if anybody, who

566
00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:07,480
are you considering candidates the sophomores we
were heading into year three, it would

567
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,920
have to I guess would be Lamelboll
or Anthony Edwards would be the only two.

568
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,239
Or even if you're I mean,
you could kind of think about like

569
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,079
this year's rookies, if you actually
think that one of them by year three

570
00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:21,599
is going to be an MVP candidate. Yeah, I mean, I'm just

571
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:27,199
just looking through like the top players
from that twenty nineteen draft. Well here,

572
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,400
let's I guess it would be it
would be a twenty twenty draft,

573
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,119
right, yeah, so let's do
it this way. I'm gonna give you,

574
00:39:31,559 --> 00:39:36,320
I mean to Zion count because he
would technically be well, okay,

575
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,159
so that's a third year. Oh
well, because he missed all of this

576
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:43,039
one. Yeah, speak Count,
Let's throw him in there. So let's

577
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:49,159
say this Zion, Kaig Cunningham,
Evan Mobley, Scottie Barnes, LaMelo Ball,

578
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:55,800
Anthony Edwards who is more likely to
make an MVP type jump by their

579
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,360
third season? And again, I
know that this is Zion's third season.

580
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:05,199
He hasn't played. Are we including
Tyrese Halib and there too if you want

581
00:40:05,199 --> 00:40:07,760
to? But he clearly should not
be the pick. He's not the answer.

582
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,960
I'm just like he's at least in
the discussion. I think Cunningham is.

583
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:15,960
I think Cunningham is the guy I'm
most confident makes a leap of that

584
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:22,280
magnitude, just because the field that
he has for the game, without like

585
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:28,239
super noticeable weaknesses at this point is
just unreal. I still have I still

586
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:34,039
have concerns about the sustainability of balls
scoring. I was gonna say, I

587
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:36,960
think it's really cool that you think
people are gonna watch the Pistons enough to

588
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:38,960
view Kake cunning him as an MP
candidate, and that they will when they're

589
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,039
a good team and some good pieces
there. To be clear, that's a

590
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:46,400
shot not at the Pistons or their
fans, but some of just like Pistons

591
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,000
related takes that I've seen on the
internet this year. Anyway, please carry

592
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:58,559
on. Mobley is my probably.
I love this rookie class so much so

593
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:01,400
you think he would say feel like
they could make a case for like Kate

594
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:07,079
Bowblian Barnes. I'm bead of anyone
else. My pick is Barnes. I

595
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:10,239
think this is really tough. I
could see Zion doing it, and maybe

596
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,079
I'm not picking him because in my
head, I'm like he's headed into year

597
00:41:14,119 --> 00:41:19,159
four, it's over. After Scottie
Barnes, I think would probably be Kde

598
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:24,840
or Lamello. But this is I'm
just gonna make more likely candidate than Ball.

599
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:29,920
That's what I was thinking too.
My pick is Scottie Barnes, just

600
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,159
because if you also factor in they're
playing for a really good team having to

601
00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:37,840
be part of the MVP discussion.
The Raptors are a great bet there,

602
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,039
more so than probably any of the
other teams on this list. Edwards,

603
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,559
I feel like we haven't talked about
enough relative to this, Kate cutting him

604
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:49,559
based on talent and game and just
the scope of his impact. I think

605
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:52,119
it should be him, but I'm
kind of trying to wait, like the

606
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:57,440
team aspect of it all, and
is Detroit gonna be really good by year

607
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,800
three? If if they are,
I mean him might need to be the

608
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,880
MVP. I'm also just not willing
to rule Haliburton out here. I mean,

609
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,800
since he's arrived in Indiana, like
averaging like just about eighteen and ten,

610
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,280
keeping the turnovers in checks, showing
a lot more on ball creation,

611
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,639
flirting with fifty forty nine, there's
a lot to like there. And I

612
00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:23,159
think he's way better at excelling within
a number of different roles than we expected,

613
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,840
because the appeal to him was that
he could fit into any number of

614
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,159
roles. Why do you have Lamello
so low on this list? I just

615
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:37,920
I wonder how much further he can
take his offensive game because he's already such

616
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,519
a ball dominant presence in Charlotte and
is benefiting a lot from like some of

617
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:45,880
the players around him, where the
talent fits so well. I just don't

618
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,239
know how much more he's going to
grow. Like obviously he's going to keep

619
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,599
getting better and keep growing. I
don't know that he has that like seismic

620
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:59,360
leap as a scorer that some of
these other guys have, So he needs

621
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,519
a size with leap. Even though
he's averaging already twenty two point three points

622
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:05,800
for thirty sixpens like you don't see
him, yes, because he needs to

623
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,440
get to it. He did get
to thirty to have that MVP case.

624
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,199
I think I could see him a
scenario where he's finishing better at the rim,

625
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,360
getting to the foul line more,
and we see that it would I

626
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,639
will agree with you that it probably
requires sort of a shift in mindset from

627
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:27,400
him. But this is also someone
who I think can probably be like really

628
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,159
good defensively one day, just because
of how disruptive that his length and size

629
00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:35,559
can make him. With the position
that he's he's I have a ball ahead

630
00:43:35,559 --> 00:43:38,159
of Haliburton in this conversation. To
be clear, I just I think Haliburton

631
00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:42,639
deserves inclusion. The thing that I
was going to push back against. Actually,

632
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,920
I don't think that he's like the
most ball dominant player, even with

633
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,840
Gordon Hayward being injured. It feels
like they've done stuff to move him off

634
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,039
the ball and put him in these
situations where that he like and I'm even

635
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:57,639
looking at it now, like twenty
seven percent of his shots or catch and

636
00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:00,559
shoot. This is not Luca Donche. I think with heavy, heavy used

637
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:05,599
to is probably a better descriptor than
Baltamer. I kind of think he's higher

638
00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:07,320
up on this. If I was
forced to choose right now just the three

639
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:12,320
from this, I'm probably just disqualifying
Zion to make the exercise easier. I

640
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:17,519
think I would have Barnes Kade than
LaMelo. Maybe LaMelo than Kade would be

641
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:21,239
on my three goes. I might
just go with this year's Rookie of the

642
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,280
Year candidates. I think, look, that's perfectly fair enough. Let's try

643
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:30,119
to get through some of the Twitter
questions that we had. We had a

644
00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:31,440
few really good ones here, so
I want to make sure that I get

645
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:37,159
to the to the absolute best ones. So some live podcasting here, I'm

646
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,280
going through the wrong tweet that I
sent out, how's that? That's really

647
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,519
awesome? Here we are. So
we have this question from November in Denmark,

648
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:47,559
and this is a bit philosophical,
but with all the pushback on advanced

649
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:51,679
stats in the MVP conversation, I
was curious to hear your take on how

650
00:44:51,679 --> 00:44:55,639
the advanced stats do evolved slash change
with new non conventional player skill sets year

651
00:44:55,679 --> 00:45:00,000
to year. Love your pod,
Thank you November in Denmark. I think

652
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,119
we continue to see the tweets that
we have already seen, just employed more

653
00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:10,679
frequently. I mean, so VORP
has been a heavy discussion point on Twitter

654
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,679
and recent days because there's a bit
of a straw man argument that that's the

655
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,599
case for Yoki to win MVP,
even though it's entirely feasible to make a

656
00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:24,280
convincing case without ever citing a single
advanced metric for yokich and you know,

657
00:45:24,519 --> 00:45:29,639
by the same token TPA and BPM
and all that. But BPM has already

658
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:31,760
evolved to be BPM two point zero. It's just not called that. It's

659
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,599
still just called BPM, and it's
not called VORB two point oh, it's

660
00:45:35,599 --> 00:45:40,360
just called VORP. But when Russell
Westbrook broke the metric because there was these

661
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,960
there were these unanticipated interaction effects between
his rebounding percentage and his assist percentage.

662
00:45:47,039 --> 00:45:53,360
The formula was revamped because it was
shown pretty demonstrably that the metric wasn't working

663
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,920
as intended, and we're essentially seeing
the same thing now where Yoki's numbers are

664
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:06,000
supremely and fully because passing from the
big man's spot. While in the past

665
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:09,559
it has been more valuable because there
was more of a correlation between that and

666
00:46:09,639 --> 00:46:15,559
winning games. Because it's a non
traditional idea to have an offensive half court

667
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:22,719
set centered around a true five.
It's giving him too much value for his

668
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:28,079
remarkable best in the NBA passing.
There's going to be a tweak to account

669
00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:30,679
for that. Because the NBA evolves
and the metrics evolve with it, so

670
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:37,280
so many of these catch all metrics
are essentially developed by looking at correlations between

671
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:43,440
certain types of play, certain types
of basic statistics, their call, their

672
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:46,760
their effect on the winning efforts,
and working from there. So as those

673
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:52,920
correlations change, because the NBA itself
changes, will continue to see new ones

674
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,760
developed and existing on and pre existing
one's tweaked. So I don't know the

675
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,400
timeline I don't know what those tweaks
look like, but I would not assume

676
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:07,760
that the catch all metrics that are
most commonly cited and most frequently discussed during

677
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,280
the twenty twenty one twenty two season
are the same as the ones that will

678
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,599
be cited and discussed in the twenty
twenty three twenty four season. I think

679
00:47:15,639 --> 00:47:20,679
you can also just look at like
how EPM has become a thing. Yeah,

680
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,199
you pointing to the new metrics coming
out. Yeah, there's the tweaks

681
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:27,920
of the stable metrics, but new
ones coming out. Just the sheer number

682
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,360
of them that are now. They're
either new or they're publicly available for the

683
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,639
first time, because we know that
some of them have been available in some

684
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,519
form but behind the scenes. This
was another Well, my last point on

685
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:39,719
this is, like you know,
at NBA Math we use TPA, which

686
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:45,719
is an offshoot of PPM closely tied
to VORP. We will never say that

687
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:51,760
that is the most accurate metric out
there now. We've were quick to discuss

688
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,280
the shortcomings that it has, specifically
with defensive points saved. If I love

689
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,039
this podcast, if I could interrupt
you there, we did have a question

690
00:47:59,039 --> 00:48:02,639
on that from those Pinado Nicole Kachisen
in the race or dpo I. Yet

691
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,920
mbmass defensive point saved HASMM is the
best defender in the league for a few

692
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,719
seasons. Now, why is basically
the question? Yeah, So essentially,

693
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,280
like the reason for that is because
the defensive calculation and DBP and DBPM,

694
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,880
the defensive portion of box plus minus
from which defensive point saved is derived isn't

695
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:27,119
actually calculated by looking at defensive play. It's instead derived by looking at the

696
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:32,760
correlation, or it's looking at the
total value added and subtracting out the offensive

697
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:39,679
value because theoretically offense plus defense equals
total value. We're way more confident about

698
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:45,760
how valid the total part of the
calculation is. The offensive one is typically

699
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:51,880
by far the most accurate, and
that leaves the defensive one as an estimate,

700
00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:57,760
and it's positioned as an estimate.
We do talk about fairly frequently on

701
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,639
this podcast how it's just an estimate
and when it doesn't really correspond with what

702
00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:05,039
your eyes are telling you, that
is the motivation to go out and figure

703
00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:08,519
out why. And oftentimes you should
trust your eyes in those situations, you

704
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:13,519
know, evaluate as you will.
Like Yokich is not the best defensive player

705
00:49:13,519 --> 00:49:20,519
in the league. He benefits from
his inflated overall score the defensive rebounds that

706
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,320
he racks up, which, while
important, are not as important as the

707
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,639
metric might make it seem. Tying
that back to the overall point, we

708
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:36,199
use TPA not because it's the single
best evaluation of a player, but because

709
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,880
of the historical element to it,
because we can then use that to contextualize

710
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:46,440
it against scores from previous seasons because
it is relative to a league average baseline

711
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:51,039
of play. So a lot of
these newer metrics they don't have the same

712
00:49:51,639 --> 00:50:00,719
historical ability because the input factors are
so nuanced and drawn from play by play

713
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,559
data that doesn't exist prior to two
thousand or whatever the exact year is that

714
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:07,760
we just don't have the ability.
But because we do going all the way

715
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:13,519
back to nineteen seventy three and then
conform strong correlations between windshare data and box

716
00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:17,199
plus minus data, we can estimate
it as even more of an estimate all

717
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:22,679
the way back to the beginning of
the NBA days. So that's why we've

718
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,559
continued to use TPA, even knowing
that it isn't the single most accurate catch

719
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:29,880
all metric. It isn't even close. You know you're not going to find

720
00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:36,079
an NBA front office using vpnvar per
TPI out there. It's the visualization aspect,

721
00:50:36,119 --> 00:50:40,039
it's the historical comparison aspect that has
made it the choice on the Twitter

722
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:45,880
account. Great answer, great explanations. I'm going to segue right into the

723
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:51,320
next one, which is from somewhat
unbiased Rockets Fan. Very extensive question.

724
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:53,760
They ask, given the recent closeness
of some MVPs, some clear winners that

725
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:59,440
in retrospect were wrong changing standards of
accounts for legacy purposes, analysts still use

726
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,079
won awards as ce mentors of legacy, while second or third is forgotten,

727
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,599
and while the gap between them can
be minimal, is there a better way

728
00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:10,639
to measure this for legacy? There
is MVP shares top ten and different measurements

729
00:51:10,679 --> 00:51:14,840
per year, how often in top
ten, etc. What are some thoughts

730
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,480
to really begin measuring legacy in a
consistent way. They did add accounting for

731
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:23,760
individual stats peak versus longevity, strength
or lack of a team, regular season

732
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,480
versus playoffs, showing up for every
game versus coasting in a season, etc.

733
00:51:29,039 --> 00:51:31,760
And they finished up by saying,
one possibility now Kawai could come back

734
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,400
just as the playoffs and then possibly
could win it all. Let's say then

735
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,880
he has another ring in finals MVP
while missing the full season. This then

736
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:45,679
feeds into the rings culture season doesn't
matter and it should. I don't know

737
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,920
where to start with this, because
it's like such an overarching question. It

738
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:57,440
could be boiled down to how would
you like the discourse surrounding legacies to change

739
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:07,960
or improve? Focusing specifically on the
MVP point. I think that highlighting MVP

740
00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:12,480
wins is way worse than highlighting MVP
award shares, which just tends to be

741
00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:16,559
a far more accurate portrayal of what
actually happened during the season because it accounts

742
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:22,679
for the discrepancies between placements in the
voting hierarchy. So I would like to

743
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:28,039
see that cited way more frequently.
But ultimately, like there's no simple answer

744
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,079
to this question or to overall legacy
discussions because it is so all encompassing.

745
00:52:35,159 --> 00:52:38,800
Every ring is not the same,
every season is not the same. Players

746
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:44,559
who excel in the regular season and
then you know, consistently have unfortunate things

747
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:47,840
happen to them in the playoffs that
shouldn't be held against them. As much

748
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:52,760
as players who are excellent in the
regular season and then shirk the spotlight in

749
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,199
the playoffs. Chris Paul is a
great example where for so many years he

750
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,960
was criticized because he never made it
to the conference Fine. He played better

751
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:07,480
basketball in the postseason than he did
in the regular season year after year after

752
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:13,000
year after year after year, and
it was hard to pin the blame on

753
00:53:13,119 --> 00:53:17,960
him for those playoff shortcomings. Maybe
it's harder to build a team around a

754
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:24,159
shorter point guard in playoff games,
particularly five years ago and even further back,

755
00:53:24,199 --> 00:53:29,920
because the three point explosion hadn't quite
happened to the same extent that it

756
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,559
has now. But even that is
a great example of how every single one

757
00:53:32,599 --> 00:53:37,719
of these discussions has to be nuanced. And I think that's the biggest thing,

758
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:44,679
is that there's so much oversimplification of
a player's career by citing one number,

759
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:49,280
by citing one ring total, by
citing whether they want a championship or

760
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:53,360
anything. And that's the most corrosive
part of the overall discussion. If it

761
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,360
were up to me, and how
I would change it is we would forget

762
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:04,679
about the exact rankings, because it's
more important that Lebron James and Michael Jordan

763
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,280
and to an extent, Kareem Abdul
Jabbar are in the goat conversation than how

764
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:16,199
specifically you order them. Seth part
now has been all about this for a

765
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:21,320
long time, where he hates rankings
but he enjoys tears, and I think

766
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:29,320
that's the evolution of the discourse where
we're more focused on a non specific,

767
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,920
generalized placement than anything else. That
all makes sense to me. I think

768
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,639
it's really hard when you talk about
legacy. It's also very hard to make

769
00:54:39,679 --> 00:54:47,639
cross era comparisons in general, but
unbiased Rockets fan meant unbiased Rockets fan mentions

770
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,639
ring culture, and that's like,
even the conversation around Michael Jordan is reductive

771
00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:57,440
because the cites his record in the
finals, when it's his actual legacy is

772
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,360
so much more than that. I
would just argue that their needs to be

773
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,760
more nuanced in general, and you
need to understand who you're comparing. The

774
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,239
tears are a great way to do
that, or at least streamline that.

775
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,679
But like, what are you making
the case for exactly? Because you can't

776
00:55:10,679 --> 00:55:14,400
just make you can honestly, you
can't even make up the presumption that like

777
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,280
Lebron is going to be number two
on everyone's rankings even though there should be

778
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,000
a clear top two players of all
time. To me, we also have

779
00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:29,159
to get away from the the more
egregious examples of and I'm not even gonna

780
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,079
name names here, but like where
because players were so popular, they're so

781
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:36,440
high up on rankings. I think
that's where the nuance comes in. Let's

782
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,119
also have honest conversations about it and
go into the details of black Okay,

783
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:45,119
if someone's gonna put Kobe ahead of
you know, when all said and done,

784
00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:50,199
Durant, why aside from rings,
well, I just get into it.

785
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,920
Why that's fine, Like I just
want I'm not even being a troll

786
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,559
here, so like that would be
you know, if Kevin Durant is not

787
00:55:55,599 --> 00:56:01,360
going to have five championships, like
that's gonna be a conversation that inverted or

788
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,239
not indavertently but eventually just gets oversimplified. So that's what I would just like

789
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,039
to see is more nuanced in general. But I do think tears are a

790
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:14,159
good way of inoculating us against having
some pretty poor discussions on the subject in

791
00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:17,639
general, and their ring culture in
general is just bad because you end up

792
00:56:17,679 --> 00:56:24,159
a situation, speaking of Durant,
where if legacies are so inextricably intertwined with

793
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:29,280
ring count, of course you're going
to join a super team and try to

794
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,000
actually win a ring because you struggle
to do so, and then you get

795
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:38,800
criticized for doing that, and there's
so much inconsistency within, like arguments from

796
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:44,119
the exact same people about how you
know player X isn't any good because he

797
00:56:44,119 --> 00:56:46,960
didn't win a ring, but player
wise ring didn't count because there were too

798
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:51,800
many injuries during the postseason runs.
They lucked their way to a title.

799
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:54,039
They were in the bubble. It's
a Mickey Mouse ring. You know,

800
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:59,119
he joined a super team, so
that ring doesn't really count. Those are

801
00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:02,079
not Kevin Grant and like only having
half a championship ring or something because the

802
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:07,960
two of them game with the Warriors. Yeah. Yeah, These are some

803
00:57:07,199 --> 00:57:12,599
lighter hitting questions Simon. As are
the Hawks the team most likely to cause

804
00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:15,519
a shock and make it through the
plane and then pass the first round?

805
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,280
I feel like they're pretty easy.
No, because the nets do exist.

806
00:57:19,599 --> 00:57:22,880
I just I don't believe the nets, but they have to be the who's

807
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:27,239
the team most I wonder? But
I wonder if they count because they're technically

808
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,280
in the play in But are we
only thinking of like the nine and ten

809
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,519
seeds as the play in teams because
they're not in those top eight spots?

810
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,079
Then I would say, yes,
it's the Hawks pretty clearly to me.

811
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:37,840
Yeah, because it's not the it's
not the Spurs, it's not the Pelicans,

812
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,440
and it's not the Horns. Hear
me out, Zion just all of

813
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:45,920
a sudden comes back. He's just
been that would be that. I'm so

814
00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:49,840
I cannot wait to see the Pelicans
next season. I know people have said,

815
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,119
oh, the Clippers and Nuggets will
be healthier. You still have the

816
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:55,880
Mavericks and the Suns and the Warriors, but like the Pelicans with Zion could

817
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,960
be reduced. Yeah. Yeah,
two years from now when he plays again,

818
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:04,840
it's gonna look so good. Wow, that was really mean? All

819
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,480
right, this will be our last
one comes from the NBA Chicken. What

820
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:12,920
are your thoughts on the Raptors versus
Sixers matchup, which has been basically confirmed

821
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,440
as of this recording. I don't
we don't feel bad about getting into it,

822
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,599
and they'll be a playoff actual predictions. But how do you feel about

823
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,280
this matchup. They also mentioned I
feel like the Raptors have the defensive versatility

824
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,960
and coaching advantage I think in bead
should will them to a seven game win.

825
00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:29,559
I'm assuming he means they mean the
Sixers, but I wanted to know

826
00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:32,840
your thoughts, especially with the Tyble
Frink cale who we do want to make

827
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,159
it clear or should make it clear. I saw this in our discord that

828
00:58:37,239 --> 00:58:39,719
Tyble has can't play in Toronto because
he's ineligible. I think it's because he

829
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,599
was vaccinated but hasn't received his booster
as in so far as that matters,

830
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:51,400
get your fucking booster. If that's
the real reason. I'll be honest that

831
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,880
I have not spent much time thinking
about the specific matchups yet. Oh good,

832
00:58:54,440 --> 00:59:00,280
just because we're recording this on the
final day of the regular season,

833
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:06,679
we still have the play in tournament, so I've kind of avoided thinking about

834
00:59:06,719 --> 00:59:10,719
those specifics. But just off the
cuff thoughts, I would not be surprised

835
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:15,880
at all if Toronto was able to
win this because they do have that defensive

836
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,760
versatility where they can throw a bunch
of different bodies and a bunch of different

837
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:25,079
looks at a Sixers team that is
ultimately pretty dependent on a select few players

838
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:30,039
if you can, if you can
kind of employ the old blueprint against Dwight

839
00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:36,079
Howard's Orlando Magic, where you just
you let Embiide score fifty points and make

840
00:59:36,119 --> 00:59:40,039
sure that Tobias Harris and James Harden
don't get going. Because Harden has,

841
00:59:39,679 --> 00:59:44,880
for as good as his numbers have
been since arriving in Philadelphia, he hasn't

842
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:50,039
looked quite like the same player creating
for himself. So if you want to

843
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:52,519
let Himbide get his frustrate the hell
out of Harden, who has had playoff

844
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:57,840
difficulties, and then make sure that
Tobias Harris and Tyrese Maxie don't get going,

845
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,800
I think that you have enough to
squeeze out a long series win here.

846
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:07,079
Would I picked Toronto straight up to
win? I don't think so.

847
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:12,159
But this one, this should be
one of those four or five matchups that

848
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,719
really could go either way. I
think that I would pick, as of

849
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,559
right now, the Raptors to win
it. And it's not just because Tible

850
01:00:19,599 --> 01:00:22,039
won't be there, but their Phillies
transition defense has been a problem for pretty

851
01:00:22,079 --> 01:00:27,199
much all of this year, not
having Tible for up to four games of

852
01:00:27,239 --> 01:00:30,800
the seven is going to be a
clear issue. Harden like has some of

853
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,400
the counting stats, but he's just
not looked right and they're going to get

854
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,679
absolutely trucked in the no Ebid minutes
if what's happened. As far as any

855
01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:45,159
indication, the Sixers net rating when
Harden plays without Embi minus eleven point six

856
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,400
right now, and I get that
he's doing I don't want to say more

857
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,639
heavy lifting, but they've made the
clear decision of tyres, Maxie and eb

858
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,880
are going to play the no Harden
minutes, so Harden doesn't have Maxie or

859
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,639
Embid for a lot of these stretches. You also get to the point where

860
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:00,800
those stretches are going to become fewer
and further between that being said, it

861
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,440
feels like Joel will be might knowing
how Harden to struggle before in the playoffs

862
01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:08,039
and just knowing the different looks that
Toronto can throw at them that it means

863
01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:12,440
gonna have to score like forty forty
five points a game for them to have

864
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,639
a chance in this series. I
also just think like, even if Harden

865
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:21,719
doesn't suck, the Sixers offense is
gonna have to work incredibly hard against this

866
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,599
Rappers defense, and we saw it
in their most recent outing, just like

867
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:28,639
having to try and hunt for mismatches, not even mismatches, but ways to

868
01:01:28,639 --> 01:01:30,280
get and beat the ball, and
you can't because Toronto is just such a

869
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:35,960
well oiled machine when it comes to
switching and there's oh Pressiuous switched on to

870
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:39,079
James Harden, that's not actually a
mismatch because Pressichua moves so well. I

871
01:01:39,119 --> 01:01:43,239
would be concerned about Toronto's half court
offense. I think, you know,

872
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,000
it's great that Siakam's not the same
guy we saw on the bubble where it

873
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:49,639
didn't even look like he could dribble
through traffic in a straight line. There's

874
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:53,599
so much more versatility to his handle
now and his decision making with it.

875
01:01:53,639 --> 01:01:55,840
They do have, for event,
Fleaed who I think has more command over

876
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:00,239
the half court offense. And then
whatever Gary Trent Junior can be election with

877
01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:02,440
the Bollamba's hands. They've tried to
run stuff through Scottie Barnes as well.

878
01:02:04,039 --> 01:02:07,960
They're shooting can be spotty though,
And again, even with those creators that

879
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,880
they have, I don't they don't
have a traditional primary creator or maybe someone

880
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,119
as you would call an apex primary
creator, So I get that concern,

881
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:21,800
but this just feels like Toronto people
have been concerned about their depth. I

882
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:23,039
don't feel like that's going to be
an issue against Philly, who's sort of

883
01:02:23,039 --> 01:02:28,679
comparably shallow. And this team too, their best players are used to playing

884
01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:30,599
a ton. They have three guys
from the top ten of minutes per game

885
01:02:30,679 --> 01:02:37,000
on the season. If everyone's healthy, I think I'm leaning towards Toronto here.

886
01:02:37,079 --> 01:02:40,039
In six or seven games, this
is definitely not the matchup Philadelphia wanted

887
01:02:40,119 --> 01:02:45,599
to see. And for what it's
worth, Philadelphia has gone one in three

888
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:50,079
against Toronto this season. Now,
granted, Embie did miss the game that

889
01:02:50,159 --> 01:02:52,840
was played back on November eleventh,
which resulted in a loss for the seventy

890
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:58,199
six ers, and kind of a
weird quirk here, as much as you

891
01:02:58,239 --> 01:03:02,559
can take anything away from single game
plus minus, in the two losses in

892
01:03:02,599 --> 01:03:07,480
which embiad played, he was plus
eight and plus seven and they still lost,

893
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,599
and the one game they won he
was minus four and they won by

894
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:14,960
five points. That's kind of this. Well, Barne that last point,

895
01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:17,159
even though there was before from ESPN
that Ben Simmons like gave and bad to

896
01:03:17,199 --> 01:03:22,239
pass when he was bad in that
Toronto series where Philly literally lost that series

897
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,639
because of the no Embiad minutes,
and that's where it could break you.

898
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:29,079
Let's say, in bad averages forty
minutes a game that's going to be If

899
01:03:29,079 --> 01:03:31,719
that's a seven game series, that's
fifty six minutes that you have to account

900
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:36,679
for without Joel Embiad, which as
a run a lot of workload and what's

901
01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:38,280
sure to be a long season if
you want to make a title run.

902
01:03:39,079 --> 01:03:43,039
But I'm just saying, though,
like that's more than a full game's worth

903
01:03:43,039 --> 01:03:45,840
of time without Abiade, you have
every opportunity to lose that series. Now,

904
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:49,800
maybe Tyres MAXI surprised us. I
think Tobias Harris has done a good

905
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,880
job turning things around as well too. What it really comes down to is

906
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:58,679
do you trust James Harden to be
I can't even say the player that he's

907
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:01,239
been in the playoffs previously, but
the player who closed the regular season before

908
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,199
his injury last year with the Nets. Do you trust him to be that

909
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:09,400
player in the playoffs with Philly right
now? I don't know that I do.

910
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,519
I think he still has that level
of play in him, but he

911
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:15,840
just hasn't looked right for much of
this year, and as you already mentioned,

912
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:20,039
he has those previous playoff struggles that
we have to work off here.

913
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:27,280
I think the good news for Philadelphia
too is that Toronto has had no success

914
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,920
in this season's matchups and really in
previous year's either getting imbied in foul trouble.

915
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,760
Because if you can do that,
then the entire tenor of the series

916
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:41,000
changes because that number you said it
at fifty six Skyrockets, but he has

917
01:04:41,119 --> 01:04:45,320
I think a combined six fouls in
the three games that he's played against Toronto

918
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,639
this season, despite them attacking him
a lot. It's the name that I

919
01:04:49,639 --> 01:04:53,719
haven't mentioned here too, though.
It's just like the Raptors have ogn and

920
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:57,760
Obi if he's going to be healthy
for that, So just like the defensive

921
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:01,519
looks they can really throw at Philly, I even think with Embiid and Harden

922
01:05:01,639 --> 01:05:05,960
sort of starts to like make the
math difficult for the Sixers. I guess

923
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:10,599
I could be wrong. What you're
saying, essentially is that all of those

924
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:15,239
stupid talking points about how you might
not want to give MVP to a player

925
01:05:15,239 --> 01:05:18,239
who's gonna lose again in the first
round, that's actually about embid. Yeah

926
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:23,199
pretty much that. Why do you
think I's not gonna win the award because

927
01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:26,360
the media hates him? I guess
we don't know the Nuggets matchup for sure

928
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:30,440
yet, but if just in a
vacuum, Nuggets are sixers, who's more

929
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,800
likely to come out of the first
round? I have to know the matchup

930
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,760
to answer that question. No,
I asked you just the inter general vacuum.

931
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:41,239
That's not that this isn't the game
or it's gonna be going following the

932
01:05:41,239 --> 01:05:44,480
news that Murray and Porter probably aren't
playing in the postseason. It's it's most

933
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,000
likely still then. And it's also, like Denver has, it's a difference

934
01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:49,960
between, oh, you might play
as we're recording this, the scenario might

935
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:56,519
be locked by the time we're done. Actually it should be locked in general,

936
01:05:56,559 --> 01:05:59,840
if I'm not mistaken, whatever,
you're gonna play like, there's a

937
01:06:00,199 --> 01:06:03,800
between having to play the Warriors versus
having to play the Raptors. So yeah,

938
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:09,719
I'm with you. This was fun. Glad that we got as all

939
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:12,679
these messages go off for me in
the background. Glad we finally got through

940
01:06:12,679 --> 01:06:15,159
our all defense and all rookie picks
and through this mailbag. Hopefully we'll get

941
01:06:15,159 --> 01:06:18,480
back to having a weekly mail bag
for everybody. Until next time, let

942
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,599
me remind you to continue rating,
reviewing, subscribing to us wherever you get

943
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:27,199
your podcasts. Downloading every episode helps
us out a ton, help us promote

944
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:30,760
the pod, Retweet everything we have
out on Twitter about them, or just

945
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,199
tell people about us. Word of
mouth helps a bunch as well. Subscribe

946
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:36,840
to us on YouTube. Join the
discord, where your mail bag questions will

947
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:41,559
be given greater priority. We missed
some today off of Twitter because we went

948
01:06:41,559 --> 01:06:45,159
through the discord first, and follow
us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox, Instagram

949
01:06:45,159 --> 01:06:50,280
at Hardwood Underscore Knox, TikTok at
Hardware Knox links her in the podcast description.

950
01:06:50,639 --> 01:06:53,800
As I mentioned, we leave you
off. The shout out to the

951
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:58,079
one the only playoff bound Frankielkina