Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the
train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I
want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world,
a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace
and freedom. The train of life is a magaxin of good news and hope.
This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and like so
many truth seekers, of the only truth that can make us truly free come
Te, I invite you to travel with us on the safest train of all
that will definitely take you to safe harbour. This is the train of life.
Or ask good morning Spain, bon día, friends and friends, from
this corner of this Iberian site, from Te Barcelona, to all the towns,
of brothers, of cities of Spain, speaks Julio Pérez, this living
parable. Thirty- two years later, untiringly, we are still on the
train of life. Sign up with us and enjoy it too we go there,
ladies and gentlemen, very welcome to this traveling train. It' s
the train of life. It' s like life itself, it' s
a living parable, a little that represents each and every one of us,
in particular. This is life a journey, an unstoppable journey. On the
other hand, sometimes it is a frustrated trip, in the worst case scenario,
fatal trips, on other dangerous trips, but also trips that arrive to
a good destination, to a good port, at a good end, to
the end of the season of life and arrive well. And they' re
good. You don' t always have to talk about life' s bad
circumstances. But since we see so many things and hear so much about everything
imaginable and unimaginable happens today, we only lack the artificial intelligence that does to
us things that the magician pot is not already able to do. It can
leave us fascinated truth, confuse lies with truth. That' s what could
happen. But anyway, here we are on the train of life and today
we have good friends, very good company. We have four interviews. Let
me look. We are here at our Emissor Center in Barcelona, in Montjuich.
There we have our centerview in a very privileged place and today we are
working on works this weekend, because we are doing a new readaptation to improve
coverage and technological mechanics. Let' s also call it that no and we
are all day that we start Thursday morning and then we follow Friday on so
many friendly stations on Saturday through the network of Dinami Radio stations and also on
Sunday and also the radio stations television, Vida, radio Encuentro and so many
other private stations in many cities, sister and friend stations that also reproduce the
train of life in many Spanish cities. Anyway, think that we add more
than a hundred cities that directly tune into the program Thursday, some Fridays,
many others, many Saturdays, Sundays, many others and Mondays including throughout the
Spanish Levante, including reaching Andalusia, as far as Granada, Almeria and very
Malaga many parts. And there is the Train of Life, traveling through the
children of the human soul and talking about many things. And this morning we
have always reminded you that we are on the thirty- two anniversary of the
Train of Life. You must have seen the program that gave us good news,
our weekly Spanish television program every Sunday on Spanish TV' s two at
ten- fourth in the morning. The last program that was broadcast was that
of the Evangelical Hospital Evangelic in Barcelona, or a beautiful, wonderful, flagship
of the evangelical social work in Spain. But in the past week we were
there Onda Parradia, doing a report with our dear friend and brother, director
Esteban Lozano, with all his team and our team also a magnificent report about
Onda for radio and also about the train of life Magaxing, which was precursor
of a new format on evangelical radio in Spain as regards chat interviews, curiosities,
topics of social interest, good practices, etcetera, etcetera. Well,
here we are and this morning we also have Alfonso wardrobe theologian and writer,
good writer, Alfonso, and I see him now retired, jubilant, but
he we count on many times look we have an interview with him about philosophy
and Christianity. Philosophy and Christianity have something to do with each other. He
has written about it, things that come intro to philosophy and philosophy and Christianity.
Of the best books I have read about philosophy, I have read secular,
some and Christians of this subject few very few. The best thing I
' ve ever read is Alfonso Ropero' s philosophy and Christianity have something to
do with it. I, when I began to incorporate late into the culture,
began to devour everything to the atheists Paña, to a barsal three pool
néxito, to the main works of nix Federico Ixche, thus to Bló Zaratrusta
and all the others, the antichrist and an endless number of works and all
that fell into my hands. No, obviously, I was talking about Erick
Front the other day that well, he was the very interesting man, by
the way, the art of love and the fear of freedom. Well,
many things that from that time, in those years vibrated, were when democracy
began to emerge in Spain. Well, I a little earlier joined the late
culture, 20, late, 20 years old. Well, there my inducer
was my good friend Guillen mail to a pro- man journalist who has three
races and had just arrived. We were in Melilla doing military service. Alone
and cute and clear, the talks were very rich. And he was the
one who brought me into the world of communication and journalism, into the world
of radio. I was introduced by my mentor, Jaime Philix, a man
who was key to the topic of the spoken media, in this case of
radio. But, I want to tell you and I began to read philosophy
and everything I read, of everything that and some say good, but you
have to be careful, because it can be toxic to your faith hear,
I reaffirmed my faith more than ever I saw Jesus as the great hero of
my life, as the savior of my soul, the redeemer, and besides,
I was not afraid. I tasted good. I believe that in the
help of the spiritist he taught me to filter and to see and to understand
until I discovered the influence of philosophy in Christian theology. Understand Calvinism, in
all, in fact, many of the greats of the Church, of Christian
patristics. They were men with very high intellectual formation and philosophically even martyred justino
and many. Or well, I no longer say Ausin of Hippo, who
also had a great formation and hence philosophical concepts are poured into theology that some
have not been so healthy, but many others do. So Alfonso Rupero tells
us about philosophy and Christianity. If they have anything to do with each other,
let' s talk to him. Don' t miss it then and
then we continue to the next station with clinical psychologist Daniel Gaso. Daniel always
has something very special. What happens to us when we lie. This is
a theme that we have reproduced once again the lie. These days I was
thinking about lying psychology I' m going to buy a book from a professor
on this subject. In the new reversals of lies. But the psychology of
lying and the truth is that lying is a universal sin that has been socialized
in every order of life, in everything in politics, I no longer tell
you no, but in social life, in advertising, in human relations,
in the family, in teaching, in culture and as far as we are
concerned, it refers to why it is instinct to lie and, in the
worst cases, to lie compulsively, opathologically or destructively. Lying is a cancer
that can kill us. But Daniel Gaso tells us what happens to us when
we lie, when we lie regularly or often or with greater intensity, let
us listen to the case on such an interesting subject. José de Segovia to
another number, one, of journalist, of pro for the real ones,
besides communicator or magnificent where there are them. He is a great theologian,
in addition, a man of understanding, a true intellectual of anything that is
put before him and we speak, of course, Protestant pastor, and we
talk about what the new birth is. We' re not talking about reincarnations.
Don' t get confused. Hey, when Jesus and Nicodemus meet,
they don' t talk about reincarnation. That concept did not exist in the
mind, in the social imaginary, at least in that sphere. But you
can confuse the new birth you are born again spiritually. No, no,
the non- birth. It is a metamorphosis, it is a transformation,
a methaneia, change of mind and change of heart and attitude of life.
It is an integral inner change is conversion. Some say well, first the
birth comes, then the conversion comes, or the other way around it gets
into a mess, there it is totally inappropriate, but very interesting. With
our friend José de Segovia, I already tell you journalist, theologian, pastor
and commentator where there are and do not believe, that we have something else.
We have our friend. She' s a quintana, a guintana,
she' s a protest pastor, she' s a very bold woman,
she' s a real woman. She' s a fighter for as long
as I' ve known her for many years. She is a philologist and
pastor in the city of Madrid in practice and we talk to her. She
is the president of the Seneca Falls association, which is the Christian feminist movement
that was the forerunner of the feminist movement but they were feminists, paradoxically claiming,
therefore, rights for women, equal rights to those of men at work.
Already at the dawn of the late 19th century, the beginning of the
20th and Seneca fals and also defended life, life, life in the mother
' s womb. Today is quite the opposite. Feminist movements are pro-
abortionist and good and more things, but what to be a woman. Today,
in the 21st century, we talked to a woman who was very experienced
in the subject that is Sun quintana. Don' t miss it. And
well, nothing more, because and nothing less Alfonso wardrobe Daniel Gaso José de
Segovia is a quintana. Four first swords of the subjects we have to enjoy.
Is this the train of life? You can accompany me, you can
write to me if you have any interest in any subject or particularity of what
you hear today. Julio Perez takes the train of life? It' s
Julio on the train of life, point is. I answer him, because
we go there, come on, You can send your message through our Facebook,
through our Facebook, entering between his double- eyed point the train of
life, point is the train of life, point is. They remember that
this way you collaborate with us. Tell us your impressions, ask us and
participate actively. We want to meet you. We want to meet you.
Enter our website three your double points, the train of life, point is
and follow us through Facebook, through ugly Yes I haven' t been easy
days, that things haven' t come out. How you expect I understand
you, I can see that your tears are real, that it hurts you
what has happened and in that sense, I can understand you. But we
have to get up. It' s not just you' re here,
they' re to stretch out your hand and forget about your rapacious that they
' re from if they' re going to disdain where they eat, they
' re still worth the pears, that there' s a lot of life
ahead, it' s worth it, you' re not out by accident,
you' re still worth it. This or n will go forward and
forward your sadness will become joy and your best smile. Everyone can see.
You have to get up first. You' re not just furo here It
' s going to spread call and forget about your franka. Even if sobte
siva deperien are determined that there is stagnant, to continue badly in the pear,
that there is a lot of life ahead, to continue worth the vera,
you are not here by accident, to continue worth the pear or ofuo
uy ay yo mala, God is with you become feli, sir you are
not allowed good dream, forget of your failure, although they are of serious
silva. If andstene desay stagnant, continue to be worth the pears, that
there is a lot of life ahead, to continue pears, you are not
here by accident, to continue worth the sorrows and forget about your past,
to continue worth the fight of mistakes, to learn, to continue worth the
sorrows, or you are here by accident. If it' s worth it,
there' s a lot of life ahead, still worth it for your
safety. Use the belt. We have replaced this announcement of nine hundred and
seventy- three. Why not put on your seatbelt looks like a thing of
the past. Let' s see what affects a collision at 50 kilometers per
hour and tintiole for, but it' s not. Today. One in
four road deaths was not wearing a seat belt Put on a belt Directorate General
of Traffic, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain will see in the
discography signs in the effect that after birth they may have problems of integration or
difficulties in exercising professions of responsibility and even situations in which their physical integrity or
their life is endangered. But what' s it about, doctor, you
' re gonna have a little girl. Discrimination against women in society leads to
abuse of injustice and ill- treatment. Don' t let them in act
with Amnesty Org Amnesty International, the project studying in the United States and teaching
them how to play football really are Emilio and Raul and one of them has
schizophrenia, but their dreams, like anyone else' s, have no limits.
Let' s not put them on us. Integration is always the best
response for the social inclusion of people with mental health problems, Ministry of Health,
equal social services of the Government of Spain. If you want to visit
our website, the WWWW. The train of life. The train of life.
Or so, ladies and gentlemen, if we are this morning in direct
line with Don Alfonso closet the N, as we have told you, he
is a writer, lecturer, theologian and also editor of editorial Clie, but
we are talking to him this morning about philosophy and Christianity. A man of
understanding, versed in the question among many others, among many others, and
well we have the pleasure of talking to him about philosophy and Christianity. They
have something to do with each other or the worst cases, according to some,
are antagonistic. Someone has said that religion does not work with reason,
it works with feeling, with faith. That' s what Manuel García Morente
says. There, in Buenos Aires, they call with that beautiful word that
you have palpitos. When you work with feeling and with faith, it is
not done with rational evidence. Therefore, in some way religion can replace philosophy,
but then religion does not serve means anything, he tells us in his
introduction to this book of philosophy and Christianity. I don' t make such
a statement. Don Manuel García tells us, religion has a function and plays
a role that is necessary in life. Well, come on, let'
s see the subject of philosophy. Good morning. Dear friend, Don Alfonso,
wardrobe Hello, Well read, thank you for being with us. Dear
Alfonso, and philosophy and Christianity appear. Well this book, which was published
some years ago, introduced to philosophy, one of them, a Christian perspective,
and also the other philosophy and Christianity. Why these two books arose,
this answer at that time and why it is still current, Alfonso, because
they did arise, like everything that arises, from a personal restlessness, almost
all our work, because it obeys our person, our circumstances and always to
state the philosophy since I have memory, well, not memory, but yes
of quite young and after arriving at the Faith, that for me it was
an important act that changed my life, not in vain we call it a
new birth and I believed, therefore, that the Faith has nothing to fear
of reason. But the truth be told in church settings and above all and
the pastors always warned me against the readings I was doing. So much as
usual. I also like the Spanish philosophy of you that hasé, Julián,
Marías and others, and I was a little annoyed that they believed that philosophy
is a force, so to speak, high to the FE. In my
case it wasn' t the other way around in philosophy. I was greatly
helped at a time of crisis of faith by reading Soren Hetkergar, who was
a great philosopher, as well as a great believer in his study of mortal
illness, which for him is sin. That study, that analysis was made
to him, because he saved me from a crisis. Then it was not
only my experience that told me that something had been wrong and wrong I thought
good and tolerated it. Then, in time, I didn' t get
to tolerate it. At first. I understand that the shepherds have not passed.
Sometimes they have gone through seminars or Bible schools where there is no subject
dedicated to the history of thought or philosophy with which they could have a general
view, not only of the negative aspects of philosophy, but of the positive
ones. So, well, in that case I attributed it to that ignorance.
Not guilty and I didn' t care. But when time goes by
and you talk to more people within our circles who should know and still try
not to want to know the mutual relations that exist and that there has always
been and indeed Christianity from the beginning, already the Apostle Paul tried to dialogue
with the Greeks in Athens. He went there to the hill of Mars the
aeropagus and had that splendid tremendous message. He is the one who deals most
with the messages or sermons of the Apostle Paul and Christianity has always had a
concern to come to reason and what will then be said to seek a regenerated
reason. Reason you have spoken well of feelings, emotions with what seems to
play religion and it is true and it is not true. Religion also has
great reason for reason, for logic, for our understanding, so impossible sometimes
to come to understand the existence of a single and at the same time triune
god, for it is a question of debate and logic and much analysis.
And the same is true of the theme of divine incarnation, the theme of
eternal damnation. To what extent are all these subjects that, although they are
religious, are philosophable in terms of what they demand, logic and reason,
that I have an answer, since no one is happy not knowing things,
I mean, no one wants to be ignorant. We all like and enjoy
knowing from childhood, we ask why of everything and the older we ask ourselves,
because the questions are already more complicated and to no one, nobody is
funny or convinces us and on the other hand we are very depressed that we
are thrown away with more uncle. You don' t care about that.
We want to know the philosophy of that movement and religion, the Christian religion
and all religions also want to know, they want to know what happens to
the life of man after death. There' s a beyond, there'
s no beyond. In other words, religion also began in its origins as
a philosophical question. If we understand by philosophy, the search for knowledge,
morals, knowledge, then religion what happens, which is more ancient agnosses and
is nourished by metaphors of myths that make a lot of sense and have a
philosophy. Let' s say in embryo that we have to develop, there
is a very rich symbolism, because, of course, all this comes from
religion. Well from the origins of man, even those who do not believe
in the special creation of Adam and Eve, to the same anthropologists who study
the fossil gestures of man of atapuerca or even more backward, to the early
humans, for it is already observed detail that they were religious men, religious
beings by the way in which they buried their dead paintings in the caves where
they hid. So, religion was the first logical and rational action of man
to understand the mystery of the existence of Christianity, for the continuity of that
primordial man, created by God and I repeat, does much harm to people,
to churches, it is even to the outside penmisar that there is an
opposition between you reason and more to what the feelings of ur Gai Gazet,
who was not a believer, was rather a goodagnostic, but a man who
understood the Christian faith very well, He did not speak of reason as some
think the reason was devious. He speaks of cordial reason. For me this
is one of the most precious and fruitful discoveries in my life. Cordial reason
has to do with the Latin core, that is, with the heart.
A reason that arises the heart. Let' s get a head start on
this. Ortegése is saying it. He' s not telling you a believer.
He is saying a man who has analyzed the philosophy of his time and
life, which is what worried him the most, and he with his theory
of reason vitalism, that is, the vital reaction the reason that is based
on life and that he understands that reason is not an absolute, is a
part of our life. And all that Christianity defends, that truth is reached
by feeling, by conversion, by doing, by fulfilling the word that is
not excluded, that is faith as another text says, the apostle Paul.
We have nothing against the truth, but for the truth. The truth is
what the Christian also seeks, seeks it with other languages, other ways of
speaking, and some, unfortunately, do not seek because they think that good
Christ is the truth, for if they already have Christ so that they already
have everything, but Christ more than the concept they have in Christ. Christ
always overcomes us and Christ has a message also for the thinker and for the
philosopher. But better, what to leave any more questions to not be me
just the crible, It' s not very interesting in what you' re
counting Alfonso. Gentlemen, we' re talking to Alfonso wardrobe this morning about
philosophy and Christianity. In addition, he has written two works about introduction to
philosophy, a Christian perspective, also philosophy and Christianity, integral and integrative thought,
very pedagogical books already a few years ago that were written, but they
are really very current as a perfect introduction to philosophy even from the Christian perspective,
but in faith and reason, in those two parts of your work that
you approach in such an interesting way Alfonso this Christianity and philosophy, Christianity the
only one that exists, of course, with many interpretations, of course,
and philosophy that misunderstanding, almost chronic between philosophy, reason and faith, that
kind of demonization of philosophy that, after all, philosophy is love of wisdom.
Why, then, it does occur because of historical causes. That is
why the first book Cilsury of Christianity and I call integral and integrative thought,
because we have Christians, but we also have to say that we are Christians,
evangelicals or Protestants or charismatic or whatever we want that we have a date
of birth in Christ, in faith but historically, because in the age of
reform, in the sixteenth century, where until that time, until the sixteenth
century, philosophy had lived peacefully with Christianity. And think about taking it to
Timo Anselmo of Canterbury, Escotorigena and all the greats of scholasticism. Philosophy,
of course, sometimes seemed to complicate religion and then lutero a satre with all
philosophy in the name of the principle of access, which was well to save.
If philosophy is not needed, we are not saved by knowledge, we
are saved by God, who has made for us the sacrifice of his son
on the Cross. Then those were seized, disintegrated the harmony or synthesis that
had taken place, because when taking from here it does not rationalize, so
to speak, faith. He does not do it to remove them, for
the edges of the faith, to deny the faith, but he is really
fighting the thinkers and Islamists or Muslims who in his time led philosophical thought and
he thought that the Christian could not stay behind, let' s say in
this career of ideas. And furthermore, the Island is not that it had
a philosophy superior to the Christian one. It is a fact historically demonstrated that
Islam, as it conquered territories, over all the territories that had previously been
Christians, because the whole part of Palestine, Syria, North Africa there were
therefore very rich Christian communities and when they conquered then, already part more oriental,
they appropriated the books that were Christian in Greek, that in which they
were concerned to fear philosophical and thus discover a new world. And the same
thing makes him take it from here to discover that new world that the Church
had left a little aside. But of course, for three hundred years all
the scholastics were debating the issues and the error or confusion arises between not knowing,
to delineate what is the way of salvation that so much as the churches.
In this case, if it is implemented very clearly, the path of
salvation is open to ignorance and worship, to all equally, because it is
not based on the logical or rational perception we have of God and his doctrine,
but on trust in a God who offers us salvation in a free way.
That is the change of salvation, but it is for him also of
salvation. There comes a path of follow- up, of discipleship in which
one is not only called to love God and to love the next, but
is also called to evangelize, that is, to share his faith with others,
to give reasons for his faith and for the reasons of our faith.
Not only can we say believe and repent and then you will understand the old
cer already days. He is one of the first Jewish Christian philosophers to be
called Martyr, because he certainly died as Martyr during the Roman Empire. The
first three chases. He is a man who tries to convince his fellow men,
his fellow countrymen and in his time, embarrassing himself as a philosopher with
a white robe, a robe, which is what they wore, but is
thus called a philosopher of Christ. They had nothing against why, because the
Philosopher and that' s rescuing. This aspect is also a kind of religion.
Laity when people lose faith is not that they stop believing in anything.
Just take a substitute. Normally today these books, which have been so popular,
which is more platoon and less profane many others and rescue what in its
beginning was philosophy an orientation in life, when Christianity also an orientation in life.
Christianity also responds or tries to respond to the great concerns that distress us
all what I do here and where I go, what sense that in my
life and Christianity with religious languages, gives some answers. But that these answers
given by religious language can be argued by Julián Marías to the Spanish philosopher that
he, if he was a Christian, said that religion is not a philosophy.
But in Christianity it is not a philosophy, because it is a way
of salvation. But of him very moment that salvation affects man and man in
society. Man and society are philosophable themes, and Christianity needs a philosophy to
understand man, which is the so- called anthropological philosophy to understand society,
than in sociology. Then today we would say, then, that psychology and
so many elements that enter into the most amazing thing on this planet that man
will see and, as he says, that the crown of creation is the
man who bears the divine image and likeness. So, for that we need
in philosophy how we need the sciences. Then, if the yglesias in some
way develop an antagonistic spirit, disintegrating faith and reason, for the truth deprives
young people of the future or places them in a presence that made fremic,
on the one hand Christian, with the heart and, on the other hand,
mediagnostics, almost with the brain. That cannot be allowed and must be
maintained and served in both directions that we can learn and at the same time
teach something in these fields and if not, then of course, we mortgage
the future. And unfortunately, that mortgage and that' s why our churches,
unfortunate people, sometimes focus a lot on the most popular classes, that
you have to get to them, in the conflicting classes, with problems of
some kind of dependence, whether drugs or alcohol or, this is good to
get to these people of the Christian, that much more. We have something
to say to the marginalized and to people with problems, but also to educated
people who want to know and who need as the one who knows the love
that for us is the supreme love of God. And so. But in
the reform, by separating that synthesis that happened and getting the question what happens,
the churches began to look at themselves a lot and began the Lutheran Calvinist
divisions, similians to abatis, also onites, and so up to one hundred
and six hundred branches that in fixed places in how to get to the world
and present a coherent vision of the faith is that each one defends his peculiarities,
the one that is arminialism, that the Calvinist to Calvinism and loses the
best ceres and the best efforts in internal struggles, instead of understanding that society
and that world to which we are called to serve and that for that we
must study it and not devote so much time to fighting each other when we
are called to be light and salt of the world. This is, by
the way, many of these theologies influenced by a strong philosophical component, especially
Greek. Of some of those theologies that you have mentioned by influence, no
doubt, but beyond that, for example, in the history of the fathers
of the Church, noble men as hygienes and I think Tertullian Eusebius himself,
Augustine himself, whom we respect so much, men eminently with a formation of
the apostle Paul himself, with an intellectual and philosophical formation, beyond the mystical
and spiritual, which was the essentiality of his experience. But evidently, he
was a man with a great intellectual background, right, and others on the
list are endless, exactly on the list is endless. But all the patristics
were in more, especially the cappadocios, the Greeks. This comes from philosophy,
they become Christians and the fervor for faith leads him to neglect philosophy a
little, But of course, they have that philosophical background that is given in
his works. Agustín The same. Augustine comes from the rhetorical formation, which
was the academic formation that was then given included logic, which was philosophy,
included language, it was to be able to defend itself by transmitting ideas.
And he, for he is not the father almost of modernity. I am
referring to Gustin and with faith and one reads his comments that he makes to
Genesis or to anyone else and you are amazed at his psychological and theological and
human penetration of the biblical texts, because he has a full formation of the
culture of his time and knows how to draw out the Bible, for riches
that sometimes we do not extract if we do not study and investigate him and
the same can be said all the Augustinian schools that followed him and, as
he has mentioned origins, that it was also a portent of knowledge and openness.
And at the same time, the first systematic theologian in his Treaty of
Principles is all the most complete theology that even pagans used to solve certain questions.
And yet, I repeat, that is broken in reform. Then sanctism
and its logic and understanding have its cause. But of course, it'
s been five hundred years. We can' t be anchored in the past.
And that is the problem that many people who just want to do a
dichotomy between gospel and cultural life, who do not understand that we also have
a cultural mission and the gospel holds us only for the abhorrent sinner who is
in the vice of the Gospel. It also has to enlighten the person who
is apparently good, even if he is a sinner, who has concerns,
but whose logic at the moment does not allow him to accept the faith because
it sounds irrational to them. But also in this century there have been cases
of spectacular conversions of highly formed philosophers, specifically who have embraced Christianity. Moreover,
in most universities, especially Spanish, there are professors of philosophy where we
have a series of philosophers with a Christian background, usually Catholic. But if
I think Abran Jacinto Choza, Carlos Barils and others, can amazing the number
there is, I would say that almost one by university are doing very important
works, especially anthropological studies, which is the field of philology and that we
must take advantage of. The one I mentioned before Julian Marias was the roof
of a book dedicated to the process of Christianity, problems of Christianity and its
metaphysical anthropology. Jabía El Zubiri is one of the greatest philosophers in Spain,
or has already died, but also worldwide. He is a figure on whom
studies are carried out internationally and was a man, an integral defender of the
Christian faith, that is, that this must be taken into account, of
bearing in mind that we have to abandon. It' s a mini-
infraculture ghetto in which we sometimes move, There' s a perum your We
have a cultural underworld and although our young people, fortunately, have more and
more access to higher education. But even in the churches this culture of infra
- culture is maintained. That' s right, that' s right.
We' re talking to Don Alfonso wardrobe about philosophy and Christianity. What would
then be the boundaries between philosophy and theology. There, yes, there must
be some border. There, well, the borders. Of course we'
ll see her. The issue has been under discussion for many years, but
it is quite right. I believe it is a study that has already been
overcome today, especially in the so- called historical churches, Churches that have
people dedicated to theological study. And such we would bring are very missionary churches,
with little preparation, because most of our energy is devoted to social work
and evangelisms. Then, but the border does not exist, that is,
in reasonable writing. And if the FAITH were unreasonable, we could not communicate
it. In order for one thing to be able, someone can accept it,
they have to understand it and for them we have to present it in
a logical way. And because it is logical and reasonable, it is communicable
and the FAITH is communicable from the beginning. Then the border more than the
border. I would say, what needs to be done is the inculus of
Christian initiation. I tried with these volumes that fortunately already have five or six
editions that have sold very well in Latin America. Every time I' m
known more than anything by that book today, sometimes also by mail when I
' m seen on Facebook or in other media. I' ve read your
book and I' m glad. What is more, I can say from
people who today are, people who are emerging in the evangelical world that my
first book saved him, as to me perhaps also from existential anguish and anxiety
of faith, such a loss of faith by discovering that possible compatibility between faith
and reason and gladdening me these testimonies of children of shepherds. I have even
received some other e- mail for saying the help they had when they took
salt out of their minds that, as Christians, they had to be multifaceted,
so to speak intellectually. No, and that' s the first job.
We have to be informed, we have to be informed and we have
to lose our fear. In this sense, it would be necessary to do
with the words that the father who were or Catholics in the previous one,
but that it was interesting and to pass to me a good motto. Don
' t be afraid. Do not be afraid of the Christian and, in
fact, the scripture also says that we face whether we have the truth of
God, how we can have human truth. Human truth is partial, circumstantial.
It is perspectives and all partial truths that must be integrated into a more
general truth than into the Christian faith, a faith that has already been two
thousand years and in those two thousand years, I believe that a body of
doctrines has been created with sufficient reasons to convince even the most intellectually restless.
Salvation is something else. That is always a personal decision of a person who
becomes or does not, for because he understands or why he has touched himself
by God, but what is the understanding of the Christian faith, what others
call apologetics or fundamental theology or foundations. Today there is an enormous amount of
literature in this area, very instructive and, furthermore, sincerely, of academic
value. To me, enviable, something that really excites me, but you
lied. I know that these are books that go unnoticed in our field and
that this, without realizing the so- called leaders or leaders, has an
impact on the future of rooting faith in young people. I do not know
only about enthusiasm, because enthusiasm goes well for ten, one or two or
three twenty years. But the Christian faith is a faith of resistance, it
is a good springntro like the world in a day. Life says so many
years. It' s resistance. Christ told him to put the plow'
s hand forward and not look back. And for that it takes very convinced
people, enthusiastic people. I have been a shepherdess year, in about twenty
years and I have seen them and or an enthusiast and, unfortunately, at
a time when they go out or go away, we need people who are
enthusiastic, but also, who are convinced, who know what they believe,
because when one is convinced of something, I think it persists more, the
most firm one continues as the skeleton of the church, which there is maintained
not only of the most vaporous aspects. I remember, when I met the
lord late, I joined the culture because I didn' t even know how
to read. I learned to read better by reading the New Testament and joined
the culture very tacitly and then I started and then I did. I prepared
for university access very late, but I did start reading and reading everything that
fell into my hands of the time, the Red Book of Pauma, all
the characters, the communist manifesto, etcetera. Of course, Nixi and all
of his work and the madman used everything to everyone who came from behind and
further back and further back. And in the end, although it is evident
that there are many risks and in those works, when in the convictions of
ugly are internalized, when there is no disciple in the life of the well
- rooted client. But when there is, as was my case, that
it was happening to me they revitalized me more in my faith they encouraged me
to be Christian, that is to say it can have an effect for some
antagonistic, but for others revulsive. Right, yes, exactly. It'
s helpful. There is an author in Colombian clie, artur Iván Rojas,
because he has written a book created to believe, to understand and another I
do not remember the title of two books has written that they are sportsal,
because the idea is that most people read it every day a phrase from a
philosopher and an academic and then he gives his explanation. No or the day
of the shepherd gives his Christian explanation and a biblical text, but it always
begins with phrases, trying to introduce the general guilt. And this boy who
is producing these works, when the boy is already forty comes from the drug
of the street of Colombia, not from anyone, as the Pasano Apostle says,
that the vile and despised God chose, but not to continue to do
in the vileness and less price, but precisely to make in us new people,
new concerns. Paul called that the regenerated reason and then this art uriban
and I know other cases. I don' t already say it' s
an example of a person being dejected. He himself told me there he was
throwing it in the street, thinking only when to get a new dose of
drugs and somehow surprising because of the insistence of certain people. Well, he
comes to the faith and not only does he come, but today he'
s a but I think he' s a future writer. He is a
teacher, in a great seminary, in a church is called house on the
rock that are the ten eleven zero members and is the responsibility of education.
This indicates, therefore, the regenerative force of Christianity, not only in a
moral plan, but also in an intellectual plan, that bad habits, alcohol
habits, drugs must naturally be changed. Whatever it is, then it is
also necessary to change the bad, mental habits, laziness, ignorance, and
that which is sometimes forgotten. It has also taken me a lot to get
to the little I know and a lot of self- taught, because everyone
was dangerous and I had to find my own books and my own studies,
and that' s why the situation hurts. But, I repeat, I
have learned more from all these thinkers, not only philosophers, but from the
whole field of human knowledge that brings me to today. As you said,
I am excited, because my faith, but not my parish, but my
Christian faith, which is broader, an open faith, in a faith that
has answers and that we can be proud of. I know that there are
many things I don' t understand and after many years studying there, I
still have many questions, but the basic certainties are there and I think they
are always a key to understanding, because any subject that haunts us concerns us
economics, politicians, etcetera. If, then, the churches must invest in
education, in education of their leaders, first and also of the members,
so that, as the Apostle Peter says, we may know the reason of
our faith and against those who oppose it, not only respond with clichés or
disqualifications, for that an atheist is an unbeliever. No, no, people
don' t believe, not only for irrational reasons, but because this complex
world needs answers. And I think the answers, though so complex, are
there. Sinism, he has a lot to say. Yes, sir Yes,
I really did, Alfonso, I really liked this interview. I'
m a fan of the subject, too. I am a man and,
like you and many others, I have a need for a deeply spiritual experience.
I do not understand the Christian life in any other way, but it
is not antagonistic at all. All that I have said I believe is complementary
and also necessary to explain this world and many of the currents of socio-
political thought and human behavior. So, this would give a lot of itself.
But these books philosophy and Christianity by Alfonso closet introduction to philosophy we can
find them again, because they are magnificent Alfonso that have continued to be edited.
In fact, the second to be introduced to philosophy covers two thousand years
of guando, the four thousand years of philosophy from the pre- Socratic to
the present. So, for an initiation it' s more than enough.
I don' t know the resource, but it' s the pages.
I don' t remember how many anymore. But it is not a light
treatment, a deep treatment of what philosophy has said about God, that is,
it is tractor of Canto or of Chopenhauer, older of aristoteles Plato is
a journey, that is, the introduction is not so much to as phil
know Philosopher, but have thought philosophers throughout history. The first is more of
Christian faira arguments and philosophy. Much I was thinking of interlocutors like Fernando Sabater
and the philosopher Ateo who challenges me to think then a little more complex,
but it is very interesting for those who already know some philosophy. The second
is a journey through the history of philosophy from the perspective of faith and I
think they are still books of course, they are very useful today, of
course what I think to add and already the last currents, but that does
not affect philosophy in general at all. And now good, for that afank
that one always has to deepen and curl the curl what is in itself the
essence of the knowledge of the relationship between faith and reason. Philosophy Christianity is
more than enough put in these two books and they are accessible both in the
publishing house, but they go better in the evangelical bookstores. Even I'
ve seen him in Amazon at the book house. You can ask from anywhere,
because there is that Philosophy and Christianity of Alfonso Ropero introduction to philosophy.
Gentlemen and gentlemen and think hard, let us think of the words that Don
Alfonso has dedicated to us on this subject have something to do with each other
philosophy and Christianity, or they are antagonistic. I think the answers are served.
There' s a lot more. It is a subject that would give
a whole three- hour program, such as the train of life, but
we will leave it there and again we will take it back for your great
interest. Dear Alfonso, thank you so much for appearing this morning publicly on
the radio, thanks to you, and I hope that we will continue and
with that subject of teritality in philosophy. It would be very interesting, because
also tremendous several books on this subject, not mine, but by very competent
authors, because there we are placed with that theme spirituality and also philosophy,
a hug very affectionate until always. Dear friend, likewise, the train of
life, life, life R How many are we going to celebrate, what
can be heard, what are we partying? You can' t shut up,
the intensity goes up, which place is shaking? All together we'
re going to sing, all my two of us are going to live you,
I' m going to and the enchanted to enchant without poya paralyzing,
go malar, enjoy with nothing. It' s not the ladies our da
wata force. Let us celebrate, let him live us, save us,
and not I see that you will not go back to the humility, for
his grace to wait. Let' s all sing together, all Christ,
let' s shout that I' m going to scratch, revenge without for
good facha, I' m going to see go of lifeless sar and fuck
to sing, is that in fucking, gar, harassing, sid vina you
are oh. Thankful we are with the Lord because he has saved us when
they say threats to see like this, jesus to let us get rid of
books. What a great mistress. Jesus, Jesus forgives us and we can
neither the Lord. But either Jesus did not go to the or what a
great death of the partner woman. Jesus forgives us for what or what good
lord he so longs to sing, is that he judges if anything, if
those that he will give me, or it is well your voice, dance
see thing our ten see the law of Traffic and Road Safety has changed.
We changed the rules, because the way we moved has also changed. That
is why now the deadline to recover the initial point jump is two years,
without committing infringements that involve the loss of points. New times, new rules.
Directorate- General for Traffic, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain.
Sixty- eight percent of minors have consumed alcohol in the last month.
It causes physical damage and generates family conflicts, but calm. I' m
sure your daughter doesn' t really drink minors without alcohol, Educate, report,
prevent. Government of Spain. Juan invests 180 euros a month in suffering.
Alberto invests 200 euros in extortion, Carlos invests 150 euros in kidnappings.
Every time you pay you' re investing in mobs, extortion, sheep,
help them out, don' t invest, suffering against trafficking in women.
The Government of Spain is aware of this. If you want to visit our
website the wwwwww point the train of life. The train of life, all
that matters. Or what happens to us when we lie clinical psychologist Daniel Gaso
is going to tear the subject apart today we are going to challenge him,
let' s ask him some things about why we lie according to the lying
dictionary, that is, one thing that is not true with intent to deceive.
If we look for a more academic definition, we will find expression or
manifestation contrary to what is believed, thought or known. So whoever deceives or
confuses without being aware of it, does not lie, simply transmits to others
his own mistake. The relationship that each person maintains with the lie, in
addition to saying a lot of it, is very different from that of others.
Some only resort to lying when it is compassionate or when it provides positive
results, without generating any relevant deception or if it is a trivial matter.
Finally, there are also those who often need to lie almost by habit and
only on irrelevant issues. However, we cannot forget those who lie sporadically but
consciously, causing harm to others or pursuing personal benefits. And there are also
people who tend to lie or to silence necessary truths out of shyness, shame
or lack of character. Finally, we must mention pathological liars who lie with
a surprising ease, either for convenience or for an absolute and cynical lack of
respect for the truth. However, even these people are not immune to some
of the psychological and even physiological effects that lie produces on each of us when
we practice it. Well, what happens to us when we lie. There
we have Don Daniel Gaso or clinical psychologist who is going to talk to us
this morning opening New Year. Good morning, dear, Daniel, good morning,
July, and good morning to all who listen to us. Faithfully,
Daniel, but why we lied. That' s a big question. We
lied to Julio for countless reasons. The truth is that we lie out of
convenience, out of hatred, out of compassion, out of envy, out
of selfishness or out of necessity. Sometimes there are even people who think they
need to lie or as a defense against aggression. But the margin, the
origin or the motivation for the when we lie, as all lies are equal
as to their effects. The most harmful ones are for our psyches. These
are the lies we want not to take responsibility for the consequences of our actions,
that is, we lie to avoid a responsibility or a consequence of something
we have done previously. And inside this group. Even the least permissible and
most harmful lies are those that harm those who are wrong or can lead to
the recipient or the lie who will be believing making decisions that harm him,
that is, leaving someone and that person because he makes a decision based on
that lie thinking that it is real, that it is true wrong and it
is hurt. Therefore, we can draw the conclusion that the two great parameters
essential to calibrate the gravity of the lie is the intention that drives it and
the effect that causes this lie. Our relationship to lying, that is,
how often we lie and how serious those lies are, we can consider it
as a kind of value that what it does is measure our degree of responsibility
and maturity, how we face frustrations, and whether we are consistent with attitudes
of behavior in our lives. That' s what usually happens when an environment
and when someone' s lie is exposed, which is the sign of the
level of coherence and maturity in our lives. Of course, of course,
one of the main foundations upon which human relationships are built and sustained. Daniel
is trust. What is the relationship between trust and lies in the framework of
human relations? Yeah,' cause that similar question you' re having a
bit of an obriety, isn' t it? But instead, it'
s not. It is quite the opposite, because the whole relationship between human
beings would not require trust if we were transparent, Julius. But we'
re not. The reality is that we are not transparent to fully discover our
intimacy before a person of our intimacy that contains purposes and intentions that, without
attempting to do so, could harm a conversation or an interaction with that person,
which would be to stop it from social organization. For example, imagine
that the Christmas dinner, now that it has been done quite a lot lately,
is placed in the companies of this year, because I don' t
know you feel talked about your co- worker or with whom you form team
throughout the year and this fellow appears with a brilliant American, with a scandalous
print of red moles and on a white background, to say something at any
time your typical opinion about his dress. However, in the middle of the
dinner, he gets up to give a speech about the past year and about
the company partner file, for example, of course, when you are exchanging
impressions about his speech. Then, apart from the two of us, you
' re convinced I' m a dresser. It has not helped in any
way to strengthen their credibility and enchantment. However, it follows that your thoughts
are not transparent. You don' t have a little conflict with your work
cloth. If he discovers that you find his clothing, then really inappropriate or
even ridiculous. In essence, we all resort to a communication protocol and pretend
and disguise are, even if it costs to recognize the essential components of that
kind of agreement or what kind of a deal we have. We' re
not as sincere in the whole world. That' s obvious. We all
show a certain degree of opacity among others and the truth is that not always
more sincerity generates greater confidence. We all know that information is power and knowing
everything about someone amounts to a way of being a kind of possessor of that
person. It' s in our remal. In a certain way and in
a certain sense, the depth of friendship or love between two people is measured
by the degree of reciprocal knowledge of intimacy between the two. That happens a
lot, especially in couples. Trust is a basic attitude because it presides over
all interactions between people. We need it, but we use it in the
dose that, according to our judgment, each one of us needs to be
the pure truth at the moment when communication with the other person arises, because
we pass that we need to place in it a degree of trust, which
is the thermometer of the bond we have with that person. The more confident
the bond is, the deeper it is. One of the most negative effects
of lying is that we disappoint each other' s confidence and before their eyes
we stop being reliable dension That' s very important. I lose reliability in
the eyes, in the eyes of quintence. That means that one of the
destructive effects of lying is its ability to destroy meaningful relationships. And the peculiarity
of this destructive effect is that the greater the significance, that is, the
more important the relationship, the greater the degree of destruction lies. Of course,
lying certainly destroys trust between people, it is the erosion, especially when
the lie is discovered in an already categorical way. It destroys trust among friends,
even among intersociated wells and among people in general. And it really is
now. The handling of the lie means we should never lie. But of
course, but the handling of the lie has many bad consequences. Lies don
' t really have good consequences, ever. Never. The truth is,
it' s never a reality. This never has good consequences. But,
however, living in an environment, in society that seems to be that good,
nothing happens. If that is a love mind, that the relationship of
couple does not resent, that still well and are a series of inventions that
we turn, inventions I see that social that are not really deceptions, do
not work. The real thing that lies produce something positive at some point is
not true. That' s right, it hurts the truth, but,
well, we' ll talk about it really. What it means to trust
someone, For trusting someone means to believe that the chances of being deceived by
some lie on that person are very rare or nonexistent. I mean, I
don' t think I' m gonna be fooled if you start a relationship
that way with someone, because that relationship isn' t gonna be healthy.
Of course, if we want to be credible and enjoy the benefits of a
relationship of trust from others, we should completely banish deception, mean, truth
and misdirected information. The credit we have before others, which is very fragile,
is always something fragile and is not perennial, does not remain forever,
as it is updated and reviewed in each action. I mean, two people
can today have fantastic trust in their relationship, but tomorrow one of them lies
to the other. And it' s like you' re updating that reliability
in every dialogue and every interaction. We must bear in mind that it is
being reviewed. If we in lied at some point that reliability was there it
is not, and it is then the responsibility of each of us to relate
from the truth. What is evident is that each one must decide how much
of his intimacy. That' s a reality, how much of that intimacy
you want to share with each person that we need to be clear about how
much of my intimacy. I want to share with someone, with the person
I have in front of me. It is important because we have to know
to respond, putting limits on our intimacy in every interaction, as we are
authentic. The thing that is said a lot is a very authentic person.
That' s worth it if the only thing. That means living with the
doors permanently open with everyone and even if we receive pressure, appealing to authenticity,
one of the ways to avoid feeling that we should disown those who demand
a level of intimacy is to lie, and that is the big problem that
sometimes there are people who seem to demand that we be more transparent, that
we behave more things of our intimacy and sometimes the fear of sharing that is
going to lie curiously to us, that is, trying not to desert anyone
because we are not authentic. We ended up in a mortuary. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I have raised this many times the need that one does
not mean and is not obliged to say their intimacies, but we should do
so in such a way that it is not necessarily lying. So it'
s like knowing, putting a stop to our saying the discrectional being in terms
of saying what we want the other, our interlocutor, to know is a
friend more to the arrival or less has arrived, but without the need to
lie, to have the ability and the art of saying. So far I
want to tell you what I want to tell you, but to hide what
I don' t want to tell you, I don' t want to
lie to you exactly that, because the way you said it Julio is a
good way to do it. Explaining to the person looks. I' m
not gonna feel comfortable. If I share more details, if from such a
thing of so other, I will feel very uncomfortable and sincerely want to be
too. On the other hand, I want to be very honest with you.
I' d rather tell you this is the truth and that you know
that all I' m telling you is 100% of the truth. Yes,
so there is no part of that truth that is added and that you
do not know or that it is hidden and should not, etc, etc,
of course, but that who I have such respect for our relationship that
I want you to be able to affirm at all times that what I have
told you is real, authentic and and, in fact, who harms the
lie Daniel the lie the most, although it greatly harms the recipient. Of
course, to whom you most harm the emitter, to whom you mint,
who lies, since it makes him a unreliable person. He is therefore unworthy
of trust in no social credit. Of course the person knows that. But
sooner or later it is what the popular reformer says that he catches a liar
more than a lame one before, because it is a reality. He ends
up being caught lying because lying is exhausting. Living a lie, living a
life with liars is really voted for. Not too long ago we have seen
very strong things and even people who, in the face of so much pressure
and tension, have even lost their lives or become sick because they have to
keep a whole brutal catalogue of lies that perhaps a lie to sustain themselves.
You need another lie, of course, of course, and then these two
third shelves to hold on. For that it is really exhausted that exhausting better
true, accompanied by compassion and irony, than lies for mercy. Yeah,
that' s exactly a good definition. Daniel and you see the good ones,
of course you say sometimes when we talk about lies or demagoguery, because
the word of madgia is demagoguery. It' s a subtle lie. Demagoguery
is a subtle lie and then you say good you are a demagogue, but
it is that politicians in general, except very rare ex- lessons, practice
demagoguery, that is, lies mixed with truth. Sometimes they say strong truths
and truths, but sometimes they use them for partisan or political interest or for
any other hidden interest. They use lies in a proud way. That is,
in politics, for example, lies are practiced a lot. Yes,
that' s because the basic goal of the typical political discourse is to get
the approval or pleasure of people who are supposed to listen to you what you
need in some way, with their support, with their approval, with their
approval and with their vote. Finally, then clear this, when we have
the value scale of values that is so flexible, it is seciftamento is flexible,
what we put is above the first priority of all is to get the
formation of people and the second the honesty, the sincerity. Sure, that
' s what doesn' t work. Yes, of course, it'
s true that being honest doesn' t give so many votes. Often,
although I should give them, there should be more votes, but in this
there are not two votes. Well, suddenly there come some who say truths
that others hide, this is true, and suddenly they surprise the parish and
of course because they saw and they were, that is, they saw the
ones criticizing the caste. They come from the new caste that are not called
caste and say truths like fists. But then they incur them in the same
cycle, in another version, you know in another clear cycle of lies,
then it is a pattern that is constantly reproduced from some point on. No,
but well this would be long to comment, but judging by the way
lies are usually treated in the media and in general, in our society,
it would be said that lying unless you are caught is almost harmless. But
I ask you what happens to our psyche, to our mind when we lie,
because that is very important, because that is something that is generally ignored.
But lying triggers a July phenomenon, a psychological phenomenon called cognitive distortion,
which is that it is one of the psychological phenomena that occur in the person
' s mind, which lies whenever there is no correspondence between the reality that
the person perceives and the information and behavior before that reality. When there is
no match that when there is no coherence. For example, if I affirm
a bank cheque without funds, first of all, I am transmitting misleading information,
which is to ensure that there are funds in the bank account. Secondly,
my behavior is not congruent with reality, but with your lie and I
sign the check as if the funds were available, but they are not and
I know it. That produces in me what is called cognitive distortion, which
translates into a kind of psychological tension. It is like tensing a guitar string
that triggers certain effects, both emotional and physiological, very destructive. A person
who lies, goes and what are those effects? Daniel, for when we
spoke, when we spoke we knew words, our whole body is conspiring with
our message. I mean, we don' t just speak with our mouth,
it' s all our being that speaks in the most visible part and
the invisible part. But our whole being agrees with the message. Or try
monkey if you agree and it' s like you get in the middle of
reality. Our body becomes the middle of between reality and what we say,
and if there is a contradiction between the two, our body does not reflect
that contradiction between reality and what we are saying. It is as if deep
down, our body is designed to live healthyly only in harmony with reality.
That' s what I really believe, because I mean, living under the
truth. We are designed to live under the truth and our quepo physically reflects
the negative results every time we check the reality with the fidelity of the information
we transmit near it, that is, we do a kind of continuous check
to see. I' m saying. This is my speech. I'
m saying this, but the reality that I know what it is. There
is congruence between what I am saying and this reality. If we could physically
see what happens in our body every time we transmit the lie, we would
see as a bunch of fists, to give an example, that beat us
at once in different parts of the body, causing bruises and injuries. Where
they hit, lying generates on us an answer that is called stress response OK,
that is, that our body behaves inevitably by preparing itself as if it
were to face a real threat. That is the stress response, that is,
when I lie my body perceives a threat and behaves as if it were
before me it had a real threat and a major threat. For example,
by lying, my pupils dilate as if there was little light. It is
very curious that both the Bible and popular tradition resembling lies to darkness or the
loss of light and truth to the light. And it' s funny that
when I lie my pupils moisturize as if there were few in front of me.
It is something very significant that my body responds to this form. It
increases the pulsations, that is, our heart starts to beat more quickly,
increases blood pressure and, therefore, the risk of third good embolisms and the
health of our circulatory system, because it is not at all good. Increases
the respiratory rhythm appears sweat changes in the electrical conductivity of the skin. Hence,
the famous lie detector is used. It is one of the things that
are used, that is, electricity. The ability of our skin to drive
electricity varies when we lie our endocrine system, that is, the glands,
activate and release substances. The torrents us online to activate our body, as
if we were going to do an intense exercise. Our muscles increase your level
of tension, especially in the agricultural areas. In the lumbar area of the
spine. Hence the popular expression that people lie to lies and problems behind their
backs is more solitative than we think. We emit little uncontrollable changes in the
tone of voice and in the inflections of the voice and the escapees of others
sound more insecure, even if others do not know well to explain why,
but it sounds insecure what someone who lies tells us and also shakes our extremities
and drys our mouths. Then this increased activation of metabolism results in increased hostility
and aggressiveness. That is, we become more aggressive when we know that we
are lying and more hostile, and a decrease in our immune capabilities too,
that is, our defenses diminish, which makes us much more vulnerable to any
disease. That means living a life surrounded by lies really puts me at a
brutal risk July, as you can see. Yes now this is in general
in most mortals. But there are those who manage to deceive the polygraph and
the lie detector, because there are some pathological liars who lie with such serenity
that they are true actors. Cases, they' re very punctual cases.
This is not the truth. Right. That' s right, right.
It is true that with proper training, if you can call it that and
appropriate, you would be able to make fun of or get rid of the
lie detector and avoid some of the inevitable signals when it comes to lying.
But this means that we do not physically experience the consequences. If there are
things that we can control, we can count, for example, the tone
of nonsense, two gestures, even the pulsations, but there are things that
we cannot control. Then those consequences are real in our visits, in our
body. Yes, yes, because those of us who spoke before all these
professionals of the word, when when they lie they are not moved, do
not blink at all. The truth is true. And then in journalism there
is also a lot of information yellowing. No lie or half truths that are
definitely lies, but then we could say we lie sick. Of course,
observing the physiological effects of the act of lying. Of course, it is
easy to realize in July that a person who lives long under discussion, this
cognitive distortion that we have talked about, which produces the lie, can become
sick. The reason is that this physiological response of our body is a kind
of metabolic overeffort that amounts to stress and anxiety, and prolonged stress ends up
affecting the most vulnerable birds of the person. The worst thing is that it
does it in an unpredictable way, that is, when a pressure cooker is
exceeding its pressure level and the safety valve doesn' t work, that expression
of pressure pruned. But we don' t know where, because we don
' t know what the thinnest point of the pot is. But what is
clear is that it will explode from the most vulnerable, thinner point of the
oil. If there' s a micro- render somewhere that' s not
always seen, it' ll blow around, because it' s the most
vulnerable point. All people have our body, our metabolism, or points of
greater vulnerability just say even phenitistists that we already come, let' s say
predetermined, if we can say so genetically, as to the most violated points
in our body. And this means, then, that if I am in
a permanent stress that causes me to live in a life keeping the lies,
in the end, this will increase the pressure on my body and reflect it
by the point of greatest vulnerability. If I have three digestive problems at my
disposal, then I will have them if I have other circulatory- type problems,
because I will reflect it that way, in all respects, a final
resolution July. In that sense, I would like to be valid by way
of conclusion. But although we often lie only because we are afraid, because
fear is the main driving force behind lies, to minimize fear, discomfort that
can cause us to tell the truth. If we take a realistic and honest
balance of advantages and disadvantages of lying, we will realize that it is healthier
to tell the truth than to lie the truth. It may hurt that,
yes, but it usually makes us sick, that is, no one sick
of nagra. Yeah, what happens is pain sometimes, but make him sick
because of the truth. Instead, the lie initially does not seem to produce
right short- term pain. We lie to avoid pain, discomfort, but
it does make our body, our mind, and our relationships sick. It
' s just the other way around that truth. Many of those who already
know us already know July that one of the biblical texts preferred at least by
me and I know that also by you you will know the truth and the
truth was free, free that, especially from this group. The sinister personal
and relational illnesses that give them lies in our lives really. Knowing the truth
in what happens to us in our life produces freedom, knowing the truth the
meaning of our productive life and trying good. What a suggestive subject the truth
is this morning. What happens to us when we lie about the amount of
things Daniel has been explaining to us and sometimes the negative effects it has on
our own human psyche, but also on our body and on our social or
interpersonal relationships. Well, there' s that. We have taken good note
to be people who practice, who are truthful, who practice truthful relationships,
truth and avoid lying and renounce it so as not to harm anyone or harm
themselves. Dear Daniel, a hug, dear friend, until always, until
always, the whole train of life life. Today can be a great day.
Your word said so. I just believed and reacted Hodia. I decided
to be vague, even though in my mind my mistakes want me to be
gracious is the battle. I didn' t give up and come and I
feel like the day has come and this nogal love always sings. I feel
that the day has come that yes is to sing new songs, servia of
life, pen lebrar y hacer nida, of not having my reasons and to
make to feel that I can love s dale pebe today can be a great
day, this heart slept, but you made it resplendent. But today I
' m just looking ahead. I' m going to make him stand aside
for if I take you resurrect that house merci I feel that he arrived the
díadeslague, the dan de la degrano, the day of anger. You'
d understand if they didn' t have one. My reason is to be
would be to feel that I can love good to day to make good decisions,
day to tell us the truth, day to touch our hearts, day
to know how to forgive us, day to return to the source to stop
in crumbs. Never day to tempt fate and distrust your will. And it
' s the day of walking and singing. It would be useful not to
have my reasons day to say that good morning, not vintintir was vi fueva
may is a great day. What are you doing walking down the bike lane
like you don' t have wax. More and more people are encouraged to
ride a bicycle to move around the city. So, in many places where
there was only sidewalk before, there is now also bike lane. All drivers,
cyclists, bikers and pedestrians We share the street in the city if we
respect each other. There' s room for everyone. Directorate General Traffic,
Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain. Don' t ever leave me
alone in the damage or places with water. Don' t say they emit
luis fingers and linchufi. Don' t tell me at the age of an
open window I told him tonics or micamientos, and you let me swallow small
toy specks. If you neglect, your ojer can be dangerous for your children.
Don' t worry, avoid accidents, so you want more. Ministry
of Health and Consumer Affairs Government of Spain. Juan invests 180 euros a month
in suffering. Alberto invests 200 euros in extortion. Carlos invests 150 euros in
kidnappings. Every time you pay you' re investing in extortion mobs or quitting.
Help them out don' t invest in suffering against trafficking in women.
The Government of Spain is aware of this. You travel on the train of
life hello. Friends, it' s Julio Perez. You know I'
m the director of the radio show, the weekly Magaxing train of life.
And it does nothing less than thirty- two years that we travel through many
human landscapes and many curiosities and things of life, earthly life and heavenly life.
I also have the joy of telling you that I have published my book,
a book that has to do with the train of life. There are
fifty selected articles written by me. There are six seasons and in each season
there is a part of eight reflections, temporary reflections for an eternal destiny.
These are the things I tell in this book. They are perfections, analysis,
experiences, comments, some curiosity, also in those fifty reflections, in
those six stations, until we reach the term station that there is also a
section, a very important block. This book can already be found on Amazon
on the editorial platform of Amazón. Traveling on the train of life is called
the book. It' s the title of the book Traveling on the Train
of Life. Julio Pérez, a server is the author. Then there you
can well know that the train tells us about journeys through life. Life is
a kind of living parable, like a running train, that there is so
much feeling and so many experiences inside the train and what we are seeing inside
and what we see from the train out. Well, that' s where
I suggest you get access to this book, look at this book. I
' ve done it with a lot of love. I think there are things
that are very dear, very very intimate, and others not so intimate,
are very open, but it is a book that I have done from the
heart and with the heart traveling on the train of life. It is the
title of a Julio Pérez server on Amazon' s editorial platform. You can
find him. The book has a cost of fifteen euros in about 180 pages
and everything collected from that book is invested, reinvested in the radio project of
Onda Paz or Napau and in the train of life. Of course it is
part of the project so that this is put on and kept going as long
as it never stops So, I remind you and I thank you in advance
for buying my book on Amazon' s platform. Traveling on the train of
the life of a servant Julio Pérez, Thank you always, the train of
life, an exciting journey along the routes of the heart, an unforgettable trip
to Ritmo de trem Sé de Segovia, Journalist, theologian and Protestant pastor in
the city of Madrid, José this new birth, when we talk about the
new birth, is an idea. Perhaps if we turn to a society like
Anglo- Saxon or Central European or Protestant countries, the concept, regardless of
whether it is assumed as such or not, is understandable when we speak.
But when we speak in a more Catholic, more agnostic, more disbelief-
like culture of ours, especially of Europe and particularly of southern Europe. This
new birth sounds to Chinese truth, yes, indeed, really while they are
being pressured in the countries, especially in the United States, of the born
Christian, as it translates in so many times here in Spain, highlighting the
term rebirth, is undoubtedly known because there has been a good number of even
presidents of the country who have so confessed it to the population. Here,
however, in Europe and America, well it is estimated almost twenty- five
percent of the population. More like what you believe in an idea of reincarnation.
If if you had to believe something up to twenty percent of the Spaniards
sometimes comes out in some polls or statistics you seem to believe this that there
are many ways to understand reincarnation, as you very well said, an Eastern
idea, originally in unscathed, because you believe the rebirth of each soul individually,
but Buddhism, for example, which is without a doubt an even more
popular religion or in which that soul exists. So you also have to distinguish
many times what people call reincarnation, which is very different also from one person
to another and which generally, as you have very well explained the with a
text, esoteric accident. Finally, one thing or another is neither Hindu nor
Buddhist. It is our own idea of reincarnation, which many effectively confuse with
the new birth. Sure, then, to explain to us and about this
you have written some very interesting books and explained the idea, you have developed
it the idea on the subject of reincarnation, that exactly that idea of reincarnation
you could explain to us a little bit. What is it, because you
have to have more faith to believe reincarnation than to believe in the new birth,
right exactly. In fact, reincarnation seeks to respond to the well-
known problem of all religion, which is evil. How to explain it and
look for reality that old dream, on the one hand, of the second
chance to be able to correct past mistakes. But over and over again we
come across the clear idea that the victim really becomes responsible for his evil,
that is, the law of cause and effect, which is karma. Behind
all these Eastern religions. What he does, let' s say, is
that what you suffer is because of the evil you' ve done. Whereas
Jesus, for example, when faced with this blind man at birth and asked
him who sinned who did wrong, whether it was this one or his parents,
says with a whole categorical statement that neither this one nor his parents,
so let us say the vision that he offers us. Reincarnation is not a
bad solution to evil. What it does is to blame the individual for his
own evil, which is otherwise unclear, and then to fall under the weight
of guilt without any apparent solution. In principle, Joseph, what is the
difference between being reincarnated and being born again what is the great conceptual difference,
for although there are differences, as we have said, in the idea of
reincarnation that appears in Hinduism and Buddhism. In one is a soul, that
is, a being that reincarnates and in another does not exist. Let us
say an individual being who reincarnates, which is the case with Buddhism, but
in both cases we talk about the survival of the soul. And this is
what some, by mistake, say even in some esoteric books, that Christianity
used to teach, because they clearly confuse an idea that some ancient parents of
the Church appear of a certain presence of the soul with the idea of reincarnation.
Above all, it' s origin. He is a well- known
teacher for his false teaching, indeed he was condemned to the history of the
Church, who had much to refer to this, but he denies reincarnation itself,
that is, for example, three hundred years already before the famous council,
in which it is claimed that this doctrine of the Church is discarded,
He also distinguishes his idea from reincarnation. So much so, all these arguments
that appear to be Jesus' classical spiritist title saying that before he opened he
was comparing Lyas with John the Baptist. All these common places that pretend to
see signs in the Gospel of an idea of reincarnation, are totally off-
track. Scripture and the Gospel clearly do not teach reincarnation much less. The
classic spiritism lay in the fact that the Old Testament did indeed have a prohibition
of contact with the dead and of all this relationship with the spiritual world,
but that in the New Testament we entered another time in which supposedly no longer
existed that prohibition, but a new phase began which, then with the appearance
of the 19th century occultism, would already be the epoch of enlightenment in which
we came into contact with this spiritual world to which the referents are sought in
many ways. Sometimes through hypnosis, it was intended to find the testimony of
past lives in which one would have been incarnated in one creature or another.
But generally from the theosophy of DIECINUIX, what we find is like the idea
of an ascent by reincarnation, which is totally contrary to the Eastern religion environmental
regions. It is bad good, many times a descent becomes a creature that
is often not considered superior, but can be an insect, any kind of
living being that is far from ideal. I imagine that of most people,
and reincarnation, I suppose you will not dream of becoming a fly or an
ant. But it is really what Eastern religion teaches, not that one will
become a higher being, ever higher and spiritually. This is a theosophical idea.
It is not an idea of the Eastern religions that see that, according
to that law of karma and effects, one can become a creature that may
seem superior or inferior, but always paying for the evil that he has not
done. Finally, we are in the same blind circle over and over again
of cause and effect for which you do that, that you pay for that
you always get that. This is the law of reincarnation. Sure and then
closer. We have among so many writings the famous when we read in those
times the metamorphosis of francasca as to trivialize the idea and not to watch it
in a good way, that are popular ways of inoculating this concept in the
social consciousness. True, if I was in Prague this summer, I was
struck by a t- shirt that they wore on the street, which they
sold right there, in the Czech city, and I had the picture that
is usually put out of evolution, as it evolves from more or less simiesque
beings, not even the human being. And finally, Kafka' s bug
is already clear. No and then it was a clear irony of human evolution
from where it would have ended up evolved that, indeed, seen from that
perspective is a great satire. Of course if it was really this, what
Kafka would have in mind, of course, shows you a rather depressing evolution,
a simple cockroach. In the end, yes, well, there is
the paradigm, at least of the idea that is revealed to us in the
New Testament about the new birth. It is Jesus himself, who says that
a man of the Pharisees who was called Nicodemus, who was chief among the
Jews, came to Jesus by night and good spoke and told Rabbi Master.
We know that you have come from God as such, because no one can
do in the signs that you do unless God is with him. And Jesus
answered him and said to him truthfully, Verily I say unto thee, that
he that is not born again cannot see the Kingdom of God, and this
statement of Jesus is novel, surprising, and very important in this dialogue between
Jesus and Nicodemus. There' s the kid of the truth question. Yes,
indeed, because the term Kingdom of God is key, clear in all
scripture, in its entirety, is the search for that moral perfection in this
life that cannot be attained and that the butpió nicodemos being religious, for he
sees that frustration and then Jesus' response, of course, cannot be more
surprising. Now as then, God' s spirit can do what man cannot
do. In other words, we cannot reform ourselves to the point of being
able to fulfill that divine kingdom in our lives. But God’ s spirit
can change us, it can transform us in that sense. Of course it
is the great Gospel statement of how we can expect everything from God, even
if we do not expect anything from ourselves, because it is certainly what we
should think correctly. In light of the words of Lord Jesus, of course,
being born again has implications, because it is to experience then the apostle
Paul, Paul' s theology, in different mentions that the apostle Paul,
when he says if anyone is in Christ new creature is the old old things
passed and now all are made new and other statements that do not remember that
a person has experienced that catharsis, that change, that that that new inner
birth, It is that kind of spiritual change and that affects his whole being,
his whole life. But of course, something has to be produced in
that, in that crisis of new birth, as I know how you can
get to do again that what you have to do, you have to do
something, you have to go somewhere, you have to look for a magic
formula. Jesus' words, though enigmatic, exactly for many, in John
' s chapter three Gospel show us how the effects are more evident than their
cause and origin. And it compares it to the wind. Of course,
we look from the window and see the rocked trees, moved many times with
the storm, but we do not contemplate the wind. What we see are
the effects the cause. Thus, Jesus, of course, compares the work
of the spirit with the wind itself, using the Hebrew term par excellence of
the spirit of Ruag to show how we see more clearly the fruits, the
unnamed birth evidence that we can explain their origin. There is like a mystery
that makes Christianity supernatural by artonomasia or really Christianity, or that is natural or
not Christianity, because it clearly explains to Jesus that the work of the spirit
has no other explanation. And in that sense, the incomprehension of religious men
as a nicodemo sadly repeats itself throughout history. Many people have a great concept
of morality, they strive to try to live better possible, but when it
comes to the things of the spirit, they do not understand, that is,
it is a common feature really of many religious, that total misunderstanding before
the things of God and Paul. Indeed, in Corinth, he tells us
clearly. He who does not know the spirit, of course, does not
understand the things of the spirit. He who does not have the spirit cannot
discern what the things of God are. And that is the tragedy of religion,
which is often the last to really understand what this is all about,
and finally, in order to experience that new birth, many people will surely
be thinking. Some of them listen like that and say well, more or
less they form their idea. Others will understand what we are talking about and
others will surely wonder and I need a new start in my life. We
all have the feeling that a beginning, but in depth I need a change.
There I feel empty or empty I feel, I feel bad about myself
for a long time. I think it needs an existential doubt, which is
very deep, and I think that' s the point at which a person
can stand on the threshold of an experience of change, of being able to
experience the new birth. But for that Jesus also taught us that Jesus said
that he who believes in me has eternal life and one thinks that he will
pay something in return. This is the key to the entrance to that new
birth. Perhaps, indeed, the key is, as it comes later in
the well- known words of escape from John Can Three when he explains what
he means. Indeed, then this experience, how it is found, how
it comes to that new birth. And Jesus explains it without any doubt.
It is then to nicodemo itself it is to believe. It is by believing
that we really have that life, it is faith that produces, it is
immense miracle, that it is the new birth, without a doubt, the
most extraordinary experience that we can live in this life. It' s something
unique and inexplicable and what we have to believe. He does not clearly say
Jesus who believes in the son, in the son of God, that it
is the confession that Jesus makes of himself who is really about faith in Christ,
to believe in him that brings about the new birth. And there really,
to what extent clear is faith that instrument, in that incomprehensible love of
God that has loved us in such a way, that it has sent to
its child the world that produces that miracle that is the supper for which,
believing in Christ, Jesus, we not only have a hope, a life,
but we have a new birth. We know a whole new life,
the life that comes from above the sky, a different and different life in
everything as much in the expedition. It' s an eternal life. Jesus
gives no life other than eternal and if not, also in quality, the
character of that life is totally different. It is not this life, with
its prolonged frustrations in a continuous way, but it is a different life,
it is a different life, it is a better life And that is where
the Christian experience becomes no longer attractive, but totally captivating, That is,
because it is truly the life one seeks, the one that finds in no
other way that Jesus speaks to us or or or we are going to have
believing in him through his spirit, the spirit of God. I believe that
this is a totally decisive explanation, as I do not know in the words
of José de Segovia. Joseph already, at the end of this interview,
remembered books such as Charles Colson' s. Charles Colson, that man who
wrote after being involved in the Watergate case and was one of the architects when
in prison he experienced what he called the new birth and wrote the book in
I was born again exactly title the wonderful book, of which Cols is being
remembered right now even though he is no longer with us, did not seem
anymore with his master. He, however, had a tremendous experience in prison
the present root of the work of cse Lewis, The Sir Twist. He
read his famous introductory book Christianity. I was in jail because of the Watergate
scandal. He was perhaps one of the main architects of Nixon' s strategy
of listening to the opposition party and was, without a doubt, also the
one who suffered one of the biggest penalties in the Watercate case, and this
changed his life in such a way that he then created an entire prison CELLOSIP
community dedicated to the care of people in prisons. He really dedicated his whole
life to that experience that had had him at birth, could know others also
who are in prison and who felt from that moment on such an identification with
them. Of course later, the same having been imprisoned that his whole life
was let' s say a reminder of those in prison. As Jesus himself
told us to remember them so well as to be a result of enoonment that
it was a witness in his book. Yes, an interesting mention that follows
from that, not only his own experience with that published book, of his
experience of change, of conversion to Christ, experiencing that inner crisis, of
change, recognizing his personal sin and recognizing God' s favor and love for
him and discovering through the reading of Louis and then the word of the new
Testament, recognizing his need for Christ, but then also opening up that ministry
in the prisons that has been so fruitful. And so I was listening the
other day Julio García Cellorio, who is the coordinator of this ministry in Spain,
that of the entire population resource, there are thousands of pastoral agents and
hundreds of people who know Christ. In that situation of extreme difficulty that is
book deprivation, truth and notice how one thing leads the other. Right.
Yes, the most evident, visible, patent, not very manifest fruits of
this incomprehensible experience that book tells us about and that you are experiencing so much
in prison. It is perhaps little known to many people, the number of
people who come to faith in prison, even in the case of the United
States, where the Colson Ministry was born people who are waiting for capital punishment.
In some of the States where the death penalty still exists, there are
a very high number of those who are executed who bear witness to a conversion
experience at the end of their lives before being executed, you really see how
the person who often finds himself in such a radical need as that, not
as the one who is deprived of freedom, really becomes aware of his need
and, in this case, of his spiritual death, because the then birth.
In short, as Paul says, they write to the Ephesians. Of
course what it presupposes is that we are dead, spiritually dead, not weak,
sick, needy, not dead, because it is a life that comes
from where there is no equal, that has created the spirit, the life
and the world from what was not. God, too, by his spirit,
produces a spiritual life that was not there. It is not a spark
that simply increases and makes it the strongest flame. It is not that it
puts life where there is not, that is, where there is death,
indifference, coldness and who has not experienced that in life, truth, that
coldness, that indifference, listening to these things from God and sounding to him
like foreign battles of ancient peoples, that is to say that they do not
tell him anything, that is, the spiritual indifference that we can feel is
in that deep evil of that tragedy that only that miracle. That new work
of the spirit seems to suddenly one to understand suddenly realizes that it speaks of
you this, that it is your own need, that you are lost.
In short, and then they are circumstances in which we arrive incomprehensively at that
consciousness that changes our whole life. That' s interesting. What an interesting
reflection, because I think, friends, that with this public reflection of reincarnation
or new birth, I think the difference between one thing and another, the
importance of the new birth, has become more than clear. How can we
come to be born again and resurrect from that spiritual death we suffer and how
can we resurrect to a new and good life? I believe that the reflections
of the journalist José de Es Segoviano give us a lot of light. Joseph,
dear, friend, I really appreciate your appearance again. I' m
always delighted to stop you for our train. Thanks for a hug, buddy
See you all the time. Your your t is difficult, if sometimes you
don' t understand me, you know me is more than my own creek
than not ugly. I know that your plan is perfect, make me as
you dezmente me and believe. Feel me loose, my faith looses you,
my der as control of my life. Your plan more than I let you
go, my places you, loose my decisions, take control of my life.
Your plan more difficult than it is, sometimes it doesn' t grow,
you lead to know more than myself believe I don' t see.
I know that you' ve perfected faith have me montme make me understand and
that if I let you go my s was Dominicans I take control of you
in my life your plans more than mine I let you star this sun with
my decisions. Take with hurt my life your big one more than mine crazy
with your boss or sand those my way does not work no. What you
have to be is I pray with your mandans abuse that in my own way
not you be two. What ci is the memo, what you fill is
much better. Oh I loose my dream. I want you to want to
see the life of emotional pr pains and lives your plants that pay you more
radiation such life your plan or saint and with your Dutch are my or that
children or that children you travel on the train of life. Ladies and gentlemen,
we are already in direct line with our friend, the shepherdess. He
' s a Quintara. She is a pastor in the City of Madrid,
of the Christian Assembly Church and is also a woman who takes care of women
' s issues, who cares about the issue. She is also the coordinator
and adviser on women' s issues of the Evangelical Council of Madrid. She
is also a philologist and, among other things, good because right now she
is the coordinator and promoter and founder of the Seneca platform for women' s
equality. And let' s talk about this a little bit and I'
ll welcome you. Good morning, Blue, Good morning, July, how
well I am very happy to wear Blue, Well you are always so anxious
and concerned about the well- being of women and also about putting women in
value, in their right perspective from all walks of life, even within the
Christian evangelical environment, because women are also often marginalized, rather ignored, even
in Christian settings. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Undoubtedly,
man is sad, but it is so and I think it is good
that it comes from a long tradition, from a series of stereotypes or roles
that also in the Church. In that sense, I believe that it has
been negatively influenced by a culture that is good macho, is that I cannot
say the word no, and I believe that that is so deep- rooted
since man sees me refer to genesis peco this machoism, this inequality is a
consequence of those origins of that separation from man with God is another consequence of
sin and the church, for yes, according to what epoch he has been
allowed to pervade by this. And well, if we have inequalities, it
becomes invisible and is not given perhaps the place it should have and the place
that Jesus gave it. In short, yes, yes, it is and
definitely is curious, because the scope in the world Christian movement, women are
vastly majority, much more than men. Yes, in the churches there are
those who pioneered this, like Dr John Gicho who when against all odds and
against culture, also an oriental culture, also very patriarchal in South Korea,
for he realized that those who were really going to push all the projects of
his community, the community of thousands of people who were growing amazingly were women,
and this caused a real conflict. True indeed, and it is that
if we did a good study, I believe that it has been done that
most congregations, in the majority and that is, are more women than men,
although already by statistics in men, in the world there are more women
than men, but in the churches it happens, this phenomenon occurs and it
must be recognized that women, because they have been there and they could have
tremendous potential. I believe if the pioneering work of evangelization were made more room
for it, I really think it would go a little further. No,
and that makes me read it in MáximoÁlvarez commented by doing his evangelism studies
that if that back was given to the woman, that evangelization would advance in
a tremendous way. So, well, here we go. Yeah, yeah,
the truth is. Now we find very pendular movements in today' s
society and sometimes it is radical feminism that is controlled by certain lobis. Yes,
of course, then, but it' s funny and in this you
can explain to me a little blue, that the feminist movement led it Christian
women. Right, right, right, right, look at the whole idea
with this whole platform. Well, I' ve been working on this concern
for many years now, not and yes, on all of these issues of
helping women and especially recently on the issue of gender- based violence. But
if we go to the 19th century, we find some movements, especially in
New York, in the United States. In the wake of all the Protestant
revival that arises from all those who fled or left Europe to America New England,
very very movements of faith arise, a faith rooted strong practice And from
here in the 19th century, some movements arise. Women were leading movements like
abolitionism, leading anti- racist movements, but they realized that, in the
midst of all this, they had no rights, to say that the feminist
movement in the United States quickly consolidated itself linked to these Protestant reform movements and,
above all, because Protestant principles promoted that the reading of the word,
the individual interpretation of sacred texts, the access of women to basic levels of
education, all these are Protestant principles emanating from the word of the Bible.
Then what happened. Women are beginning to form, high schools, women'
s training schools are beginning to emerge, and they are the ones who are,
especially women pastors in the streets fighting for rights, as I said,
anti- slavery, anti- racist, until they realize that they themselves are
not being recognized. They are forbidden to enter many places, meetings, etcetera.
They' re not given a voice. They' re annulled as far
as getting married, losing their identity, they didn' t have the right
to vote. And all this brings these women together in what is called Bueno,
in an evangelical chapel, Methodist Protestant, in New York, in a
village a little village called Seneca Folfs. And here comes the first feminist movement
in history. Let' s say officially they make a statement of feelings that
is called the first written manifestation, the first manifest written in one thousand eight
hundred forty- eight. And of course there are men and women here.
It was about a hundred people, thirty- two men and sixty- eight
women who signed and all based on Bible texts. God has created man and
woman in his image and likeness. The woman has the same rights and we
offend God that is, that is all you can look at now with Google
and see how you were in Bible principles. Then I wanted to rescue this.
Julio I wanted to rescue this movement for the rights of the women you
see, so much havoc that there is in terms of education, poverty,
trafficking, sexual slavery, how women are in society and sometimes in the church.
I didn' t want to rescue this movement because I think it'
s biblical. I think we have a God who is not a sexist and
we have our greatest referent, who was Jesus in his treatment of women.
So, indeed, senecafol the 19th century. There it really is, and
no one rescues it from us. These radical, feminist movements that have probably
done things. Of course I do, but I certainly don' t identify
with this radicality. And this is above all that they aggressively oppose the man
and the woman and senecafal their movement of men together with women, and hence
the name will be enraged. I know you rescue how interesting. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, there' s a lot more details already than
well, we' ll be counting them little by little, but I think
we have to rescue him, just like sometimes I say we' ve been
robbed of the Iris bow. You know what I mean. Yes, well,
those principles are there in the Bible, in the Bible. It is
the biblical perspective that I want to rescue and that we do not have fear
in that sense, because sometimes, ah of course, we lobis do not
have, has nothing to do with it This is a movement of Christian evangelical
inspiration. That' s why we' ve been demanding the wage gap because
we' re demanding democratic justice for women. That is really a scandal,
not a song, a scandal of unjustifiable inferiority from all points of view.
That would be and many more things, But it is curious that the feminist
movement leads it, it is driven by Protestant Christian women in the world and,
in addition, they are advocates of life, that is, they are
not abortionists. It also means this curious and now it' s the other
way around. I mean, now you' re a peck. If you
say you want to defend life, you' re a clearing, an anachronistic
or an ultra petulant. I do not know what if, man, we,
as obviously, if we say that we are of Christian, evangelical inspiration
and that in emanating from the word of God, equality and all this in
saying is by identifying ourselves with the biblical perspective, we are forbidden. That
is to say, I firmly believe not that the human being already begins in
the same conception. There is already a human life to be taken care of.
Not now it' s the same way in our manifesto. There is
one point, because we have a manifesto that is good, we will publish
it, no, but we must protect motherhood more. We' re forbidden.
But motherhood, in what sense to give more facilities to women, to
help the co- responsibility of men and women. The man has as much
value as the woman. The woman as much as the man. With regard
to paternity, which is very important, also family reconciliation, that is to
say, we have to strengthen it. I think we need to work together
so that the laws can empower this motherhood, help protect it and reconcile it
with the family. There are times when with today' s life, which
I see it, a woman works at the end of the month, and
where it really is to give the place, to motherhood, to the family,
to the children, to say that from the beginning we also want to
promote life, protection and motherhood, help and family reconciliation. So there we
are, of course, with it. Sure. Sure, of course,
we care about the well- being of women, really, and there'
s a lot of field. It is curious that many parts of the world
are unaware of this movement of women, of the feminist movement, of Christian
inspiration, which defends the rights of women, as you are doing here in
Spain, and you are the driving force behind this project, to which many
of us have supported because we believe in this absolutely. A lot of people
don' t know about this. In the world there is a very relevant
movement of feminism not manipulated by the progressive left, this one that olovi GTBI.
And all that is clear if we go from the obis, the lobis,
because here things are naturalized. Not really, yes, I think we
' ll see, I think all this has been taken away. The movement,
this radical is reaching some extremes, and almost sometimes, because they border
on I don' t know. If it seems ridiculous and so exaggerated that
good. And yes, we are going to see myself personally, I do
believe, and I think it is clear that there is lobis behind it,
there is political manipulation, there are political interests. What I want, then,
is for us to be as a movement that promotes equality and the rights
of women and girls, that we are with that independence, independence because to
us who supports us is the word we say that I do not marry,
we are not going to identify with any political party. We do not know
that this is a delicate subject, but I say it freely, which is
my personal opinion as believers, because there is our conscience, to know truth
with whom we can identify with whom, no, perhaps one of this party,
has values, etc. But senecafaz. What it intends is, of
course, to separate itself in this sense from any political movement that tries to
encase us or trap us in that sense. But I do believe that there
is a great opposition, that there is manipulation there and I think that is
why it is part of the initiative to pull this movement out. That'
s why they don' t box us in any of them They don'
t cross us off as fake religious prudes. No, this is what Jesus
defended. This is what God clearly says in Genesis, and inequality is a
consequence of sin, like so many others, as God said, the man
will rule over you to laugh in pain, but to man he said you
will earn the bread with the sweat of your forehead the earth will be hostile
to you and that are consequences that we have. For any consequence of sin,
we have to fight, although we have to go to the root.
That the root we know that, that is, the cure of all this,
what Christ is the answer of Jesus. But until this is incarnate,
we have to fight for justice in all these areas. My personal burden is
this in this sense, among the statements and says as women in Jesus we
identify with the original feminism of Christian roots promoted by evangelical women, the result
of which was the declaration of Senecatholls in one thousand eight hundred forty- eight,
and which promoted the education of women, the legality of higher education,
female suffrage, the fight against slavery and racism and other civil rights, when
others did not exactly, when in that sense, when no one did.
That' s why nobody did it. It means that now it looks like
we' re caught up. No, but in fact, nothing is.
That' s what I want to claim, not that if we go to
history, this is recorded, we' re going to search any history book,
I say in Google and you' ll see all the information there is
about I really believe that this was the real revival, a really biblical revival
leads us, that is, to a transformation of lives, to a transformation
of society. I think it was such that I wish it would happen again.
True, we can reach the laws, the politicians, the sayings.
Here there was at this moment of Senecafas, a transformation of society that touched,
because he got exactly the female suffrage. Everything you' ve said.
Slavery was abolished in many places, that is, it was a tremendous advance
for pioneer Christians in advances in social reform, and I think that is very
important. That is the consequence of a true conversion or of a true flood.
More than shapes or more than noises or more than you don' t
understand. That stays there, but this was a real revival and we were
pioneers, of course. Besides, there were women. For the first time,
he was also a pioneer in entering, that is, prostitution, removing
women from prostitution, as was Lydia Finney and others who entered the prison,
helping women in prison who had their rights. And then that education, which
is very important, and here I do allow you to point out that of
all this movement and education the higher schools for women, from here came Alice
Gordon Wollik, who was the first woman she came to Spain as a missionary
of all this movement, came to Santander with her husband in one eight hundred
seventy out there and created the first schools of women and the first three university
students for free, which she formed because women could not go to university at
that time, neither in Spain nor in many places. It was Alice Gordon
Wollik, a higher education movement and she founded the International Institute of Women at
Miguel Angel Street in Madrid. So it' s exciting July what' s
there that we have to rescue. Yeah, sure, I love how you
work it, how you focus it. Acent, happy for this initiative and
I really think we' re with you because look. I personally am a
fan of women, because yes, I have seen it throughout my earliest conversion
and I have seen and clear there are misinterpretations about the subject of women in
the Church. Of course and this idea of equals no more and no less
so effectively nor fights, nor fights between both sexes at all, if it
is anything other than doing radical feminism or putting ourselves on. And no,
no, it' s not like that. On the contrary, we don
' t need each other. This is a struggle of comrades, brothers and
sisters, side by side. Of course we are partners in this project of
life, but because it will benefit men and women, society, our children.
It' s everyone' s project. And I think so, that
we have to go ahead and I am very grateful for the support that I
did not expect so quickly from many pastors, for so- called pastors too,
but in this case it is important that the male be there. No
and so, positive answers, Julio. So yes, that' s what
gave me as the backup. Not to go forward. I feel supported and
it is very important to me this is not an isolated or isolated white shooters.
No, no, no, no, it' s just that I
thank you very much too and with pleasure Jesus. Well, the paradigm of
many things Jesus. In fact, Jesus had a lot of women following him
who were disciples of him and who went everywhere with him. But Jesus'
encounter with the Samaritan woman is paradigmatic, because it breaks all the social standards
of the time Jesus, all, all. And indeed, and that is
the claim. Well or the woman who is found in adultery, when the
woman was, because the hostile OPA was death. But Jesus raises his head
and says whoever is free of sins, let him throw himself at her.
And because of this marginalization of the woman, and Jesus is always claimed for
his mercy, for his compassion, for his tenderness and for the truth of
things he also claims to human beings, to the weakest, they put them
in their proper place, not effectively. Indeed, I believe that the gospel
of Jesus always goes to the oppressed, to help, the oppressed, the
weak and in this sense, the women were at that time you know that
they counted, because as a slave, they no longer had any kind of
right. And here I see Jesus breaking the schemes. I mean, maybe
he didn' t say any feminist sermon we' re going to say,
but with his actions he did, he dignified the woman. Come on,
there' s so many he cured, he touched, he healed, the
one he cried cleaning with his hair. That was breaking up and asking for
forgiveness. That was a tremendously breaker. And then, how to the first
woman who gives the message of the risen Jesus, for not also Mary Magdalene,
the first tremendous woman when the testimony of a woman you do not know
was not legal, was not considered true. They were worthless, for he
broke the schemes and, as he always did to us, a nod and
the women said that with his acts he proved it, they were disciples,
they listened to her at her feet, she taught them. This was totally
breaker. Julio. What happens is that we have to get into the context
of that time so that we really see how much he dignified, restored dignity
to the woman, who has been stolen from us not so long in this
diabolical way. Let' s say yes, and it' s curious,
because women are the prototype of competitive, women' s, feminist movement,
movement of certain, well, the most well- known feminist movement today,
radical feminism, which is left feminism in general, is fundamentally that he puts
men. To the woman really the choir against the man and masculinizes the exact
woman. It' s funny. Neither the man is confronted with the woman,
nor the woman must be confronted with the man. That is another of
the issues, another of the points that we claim and that we make clear
in our manifesto, that is, that women do not want to be men,
is that all we want is to enhance our role as women and I
want that to be very clear, because we do not want to be men.
We don' t want that and I think where better than through the
image of Jesus, not in that encounter with him. That' s where
we can all enhance. We must realize our femininity. And man must regain
his place, because I believe that all this radical feminism has also affected men
and I believe that there is a kind of blurred identity in one and the
other. And this is very dangerous to say I believe that God gives us
a clear identity as men and as women, and we must preserve it as
the fruit of creation, of God' s design. But it' s
like this whole movement is coming too The man is there He' s been
touched He' s got to get back. I' m not saying that
in traditional roles because I think that man has perhaps turned to other things and
failed to play his role as a man. He' s got to get
his identity back. I also believe that men and women must be placed in
the place that God gave us and seek and seek that direction to be each
one in our place, in the most important family without each other. It
is not true, because it is, as someone has said in humor,
that men today there are many cases, apart from the energies, these savages
who deserve all our contempt and that justice relentlessly falls upon them that not only
abuse and without good murder. This is intolerable. We have all the living
forces of society, we have to be acting against this, but create a
crusade so that this decreases to the point zero, which will be difficult.
But, but really, the man himself in general is more confused than to
give on mother' s day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Men like
that are and that' s dangerous, that is, look, when you
take away your identity and I think that there in a child just the same
from a young age, there begins a tremendous problem. We need to know
who we are, where we are, what our role is, ours is
very important and there the attack is coming, which is also an attack on
the family and then I think it is to get everyone back to our place.
Neither machismos nor feminisms should exist, but unfortunately there is one we want,
as I said, to return to that design. It' s original
design that I' m telling you, in the 19th century it was the
one that we pioneered. So, and of course, we don' t
want to be men and we don' t want to face the sexes,
that' s something else. We want to repeat again, work together and
not face the sexes, because that' s where you' re wasting a
lot of time. You know, the subject is being diverted to a sex
war, if not that. And then you' ve also touched a little
bit on the issue of violence against women, which is a reality that exists,
which is there to say is that forty- six women in what we
' ve been doing for the year is hard and but simply saying that violence
generates is a consequence of inequality, which if you consider women, an object,
a sexual object, it' s inferior to you. Hence this issue,
which is the inequality of machismo that leads to great extremes, leads to
violence, leads to murder, leads to aggression. Okay, then. We
have to work there too, but I think you know where there' s
more to work is in education. For me, pastoral care is fundamental to
families. I see that we have to tell myself also as a pastor,
to influence the pastoral care of the family, to educate as children, to
help parents, because I see that they have a challenge. I already have
grandchildren, I see my children and what a challenge our children have. With
our grandchildren we still have to see, but I think that influencing there we
have a lot to contribute to families. So I think that this is where
we have to get in the way and from the churches promote equality. Since
little ones, in Sunday schools, at home, sometimes they say that the
church, of course, but from home they see my dad and my mom
how they are treated. As you know, the equality there is, what
you see there, is what the children are going to manifest. So we
have to get on with it, be an example, and in the churches
as well, yes. Women have to be and are in some cases as
involved as men in all ecclesiological projects because it is not a lower value.
They are equal conditions, but this we do not have to ignore and I
would also like to finally put in value that, speaking of the houses of
aid for evil women, I remember that you and together with a team,
were pioneers of projects of shelters for battered women when there were very few in
Spain, Yes, very few, but counted on the fingers of one hand.
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the issue of foster care
is a problem because there are few. I mean, the state is looking
forward to seeing that there too I see a possibility. You are needing us
to present serious projects to you, because nothing else will supply us throughout this
I now, especially work on the subject of accompaniment, which is very important,
accompanying all these women who are suffering counseling and accompaniment, listening to legal
advice. We also have an agreement or a lawyer' s office and spiritually
there it opens to us because they need to be heard, to be believed.
Hope. Yes, and there opens a tremendous door where I think we
can have the answer then. Yes, ideally, there would be much more
resources from the evangelical churches. It happens that this is a great challenge that
means are needed. But anyway, there we are. Yes, it'
s true, yes, there are some foster homes, but many more would
be missing for many more. This is a plague, an epidemic that needs
to be done as soon as possible and, obviously, houses is a way
of safeguarding the integrity of many women. Yes, in urgent cases. Yeah,
they' re necessary, really. Yes, because you give them all
clear, denounce such, but you don' t know that this is another
topic the best thing for back day. But once they report this, it
becomes a very complicated terrain. It' s not so easy not to say
this too it' s a little distorted that the woman is given everything right
away. Well, there' s everything, there' s everything and sometimes
it' s very complicated. No. So, in those stages where you
don' t have to leave the house urgently, you lack resources. Yes,
obviously, so well, one more challenge that we put on is a
quintana to the project' s coordinating director or platforms in ek Fals and that
has for the equality of women and girls. Then, the purpose statements and
the language on their setca false website can be accessed there also on the Facebook
wall. Ah dear friend, thank you for being there too for being so
brave. Thanks to you for real, to you and to everyone you support.
Thank you very much for nothing these, bless a hug and also congratulations
for your wonderful program. Thank you, come bye bye until you deny the
train of life. Life, Life, sister friend. Handmaid of God,
Blessed wife, ojida, are you may be greater than gold and ruby your
cuffed husband rests people. You hear the washed woman of FEA women of love,
who gave her heart? God? Will you hear the washed woman of
faith, the women of adoring who gave her heart? Christ, Ay jumped,
stretched out your hand and do not heat you and cover us to the
poor favor strength and or not his garment are not afraid in the morning you
would guphiate his heart, you will wash, woman of faith, woman of
love who gave his heart to God. Hours to the vada mujeve sees woman
of love. Here its thing is that the world forgets it of gold,
white God and Christ, exalts horse to the paw woman of faith, woman
of love who gave her heart to God, hear to the command woman of
faith, woman of love in which ombres people that the deep hates him gold,
God bull no and chris dola skipped the evangelical read a place of peace
and friendship. You can freely attend the nearest evangelical church in your neighborhood or
your population you will be, very welcome,