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Good morning, friends and friends,
I am Julio Pérez and this is the

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train of life, a radio adventure
along the routes of the heart. I

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want to invite you to travel with
me and dream together in a better world,

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a different world where men and women
of good will can live in peace

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and freedom. The train of life
is a magaxin of good news and hope.

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This is a radio time specially designed
for people like you and like so

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many truth seekers, of the only
truth that can make us truly free come

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Te, I invite you to travel
with us on the safest train of all

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that will definitely take you to safe
harbour. This is the train of life.

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Or ask good morning Spain, bon
día, friends and friends, from

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this corner of this Iberian site,
from Te Barcelona, to all the towns,

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of brothers, of cities of Spain, speaks Julio Pérez, this living

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parable. Thirty- two years later, untiringly, we are still on the

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train of life. Sign up with
us and enjoy it too we go there,

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ladies and gentlemen, very welcome to
this traveling train. It' s

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the train of life. It'
s like life itself, it' s

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a living parable, a little that
represents each and every one of us,

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in particular. This is life a
journey, an unstoppable journey. On the

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other hand, sometimes it is a
frustrated trip, in the worst case scenario,

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fatal trips, on other dangerous trips, but also trips that arrive to

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a good destination, to a good
port, at a good end, to

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the end of the season of life
and arrive well. And they' re

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good. You don' t always
have to talk about life' s bad

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circumstances. But since we see so
many things and hear so much about everything

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imaginable and unimaginable happens today, we
only lack the artificial intelligence that does to

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us things that the magician pot is
not already able to do. It can

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leave us fascinated truth, confuse lies
with truth. That' s what could

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happen. But anyway, here we
are on the train of life and today

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we have good friends, very good
company. We have four interviews. Let

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me look. We are here at
our Emissor Center in Barcelona, in Montjuich.

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There we have our centerview in a
very privileged place and today we are

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working on works this weekend, because
we are doing a new readaptation to improve

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coverage and technological mechanics. Let'
s also call it that no and we

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are all day that we start Thursday
morning and then we follow Friday on so

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many friendly stations on Saturday through the
network of Dinami Radio stations and also on

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Sunday and also the radio stations television, Vida, radio Encuentro and so many

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other private stations in many cities,
sister and friend stations that also reproduce the

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train of life in many Spanish cities. Anyway, think that we add more

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than a hundred cities that directly tune
into the program Thursday, some Fridays,

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many others, many Saturdays, Sundays, many others and Mondays including throughout the

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Spanish Levante, including reaching Andalusia,
as far as Granada, Almeria and very

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Malaga many parts. And there is
the Train of Life, traveling through the

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children of the human soul and talking
about many things. And this morning we

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have always reminded you that we are
on the thirty- two anniversary of the

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Train of Life. You must have
seen the program that gave us good news,

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our weekly Spanish television program every Sunday
on Spanish TV' s two at

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ten- fourth in the morning.
The last program that was broadcast was that

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of the Evangelical Hospital Evangelic in Barcelona, or a beautiful, wonderful, flagship

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of the evangelical social work in Spain. But in the past week we were

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there Onda Parradia, doing a report
with our dear friend and brother, director

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Esteban Lozano, with all his team
and our team also a magnificent report about

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Onda for radio and also about the
train of life Magaxing, which was precursor

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of a new format on evangelical radio
in Spain as regards chat interviews, curiosities,

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topics of social interest, good practices, etcetera, etcetera. Well,

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here we are and this morning we
also have Alfonso wardrobe theologian and writer,

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good writer, Alfonso, and I
see him now retired, jubilant, but

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he we count on many times look
we have an interview with him about philosophy

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and Christianity. Philosophy and Christianity have
something to do with each other. He

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has written about it, things that
come intro to philosophy and philosophy and Christianity.

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Of the best books I have read
about philosophy, I have read secular,

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some and Christians of this subject few
very few. The best thing I

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' ve ever read is Alfonso Ropero' s philosophy and Christianity have something to

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do with it. I, when
I began to incorporate late into the culture,

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began to devour everything to the atheists
Paña, to a barsal three pool

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néxito, to the main works of
nix Federico Ixche, thus to Bló Zaratrusta

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and all the others, the antichrist
and an endless number of works and all

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that fell into my hands. No, obviously, I was talking about Erick

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Front the other day that well,
he was the very interesting man, by

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the way, the art of love
and the fear of freedom. Well,

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many things that from that time,
in those years vibrated, were when democracy

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began to emerge in Spain. Well, I a little earlier joined the late

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culture, 20, late, 20
years old. Well, there my inducer

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was my good friend Guillen mail to
a pro- man journalist who has three

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races and had just arrived. We
were in Melilla doing military service. Alone

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and cute and clear, the talks
were very rich. And he was the

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one who brought me into the world
of communication and journalism, into the world

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of radio. I was introduced by
my mentor, Jaime Philix, a man

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who was key to the topic of
the spoken media, in this case of

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radio. But, I want to
tell you and I began to read philosophy

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and everything I read, of everything
that and some say good, but you

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have to be careful, because it
can be toxic to your faith hear,

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I reaffirmed my faith more than ever
I saw Jesus as the great hero of

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my life, as the savior of
my soul, the redeemer, and besides,

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I was not afraid. I tasted
good. I believe that in the

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help of the spiritist he taught me
to filter and to see and to understand

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until I discovered the influence of philosophy
in Christian theology. Understand Calvinism, in

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all, in fact, many of
the greats of the Church, of Christian

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patristics. They were men with very
high intellectual formation and philosophically even martyred justino

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and many. Or well, I
no longer say Ausin of Hippo, who

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also had a great formation and hence
philosophical concepts are poured into theology that some

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have not been so healthy, but
many others do. So Alfonso Rupero tells

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us about philosophy and Christianity. If
they have anything to do with each other,

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let' s talk to him.
Don' t miss it then and

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then we continue to the next station
with clinical psychologist Daniel Gaso. Daniel always

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has something very special. What happens
to us when we lie. This is

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a theme that we have reproduced once
again the lie. These days I was

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thinking about lying psychology I' m
going to buy a book from a professor

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on this subject. In the new
reversals of lies. But the psychology of

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lying and the truth is that lying
is a universal sin that has been socialized

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in every order of life, in
everything in politics, I no longer tell

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you no, but in social life, in advertising, in human relations,

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in the family, in teaching,
in culture and as far as we are

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concerned, it refers to why it
is instinct to lie and, in the

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worst cases, to lie compulsively,
opathologically or destructively. Lying is a cancer

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that can kill us. But Daniel
Gaso tells us what happens to us when

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we lie, when we lie regularly
or often or with greater intensity, let

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us listen to the case on such
an interesting subject. José de Segovia to

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another number, one, of journalist, of pro for the real ones,

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besides communicator or magnificent where there are
them. He is a great theologian,

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in addition, a man of understanding, a true intellectual of anything that is

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put before him and we speak,
of course, Protestant pastor, and we

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talk about what the new birth is. We' re not talking about reincarnations.

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Don' t get confused. Hey, when Jesus and Nicodemus meet,

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they don' t talk about reincarnation. That concept did not exist in the

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mind, in the social imaginary,
at least in that sphere. But you

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can confuse the new birth you are
born again spiritually. No, no,

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the non- birth. It is
a metamorphosis, it is a transformation,

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a methaneia, change of mind and
change of heart and attitude of life.

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It is an integral inner change is
conversion. Some say well, first the

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birth comes, then the conversion comes, or the other way around it gets

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into a mess, there it is
totally inappropriate, but very interesting. With

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our friend José de Segovia, I
already tell you journalist, theologian, pastor

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and commentator where there are and do
not believe, that we have something else.

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We have our friend. She'
s a quintana, a guintana,

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she' s a protest pastor,
she' s a very bold woman,

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she' s a real woman.
She' s a fighter for as long

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as I' ve known her for
many years. She is a philologist and

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pastor in the city of Madrid in
practice and we talk to her. She

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is the president of the Seneca Falls
association, which is the Christian feminist movement

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that was the forerunner of the feminist
movement but they were feminists, paradoxically claiming,

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therefore, rights for women, equal
rights to those of men at work.

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Already at the dawn of the late
19th century, the beginning of the

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20th and Seneca fals and also defended
life, life, life in the mother

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' s womb. Today is quite
the opposite. Feminist movements are pro-

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abortionist and good and more things,
but what to be a woman. Today,

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in the 21st century, we talked
to a woman who was very experienced

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in the subject that is Sun quintana. Don' t miss it. And

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well, nothing more, because and
nothing less Alfonso wardrobe Daniel Gaso José de

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Segovia is a quintana. Four first
swords of the subjects we have to enjoy.

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Is this the train of life?
You can accompany me, you can

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write to me if you have any
interest in any subject or particularity of what

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you hear today. Julio Perez takes
the train of life? It' s

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Julio on the train of life,
point is. I answer him, because

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we go there, come on,
You can send your message through our Facebook,

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through our Facebook, entering between his
double- eyed point the train of

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life, point is the train of
life, point is. They remember that

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this way you collaborate with us.
Tell us your impressions, ask us and

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participate actively. We want to meet
you. We want to meet you.

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Enter our website three your double points, the train of life, point is

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and follow us through Facebook, through
ugly Yes I haven' t been easy

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days, that things haven' t
come out. How you expect I understand

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you, I can see that your
tears are real, that it hurts you

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what has happened and in that sense, I can understand you. But we

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have to get up. It'
s not just you' re here,

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they' re to stretch out your
hand and forget about your rapacious that they

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' re from if they' re
going to disdain where they eat, they

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' re still worth the pears,
that there' s a lot of life

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ahead, it' s worth it, you' re not out by accident,

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you' re still worth it.
This or n will go forward and

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forward your sadness will become joy and
your best smile. Everyone can see.

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You have to get up first.
You' re not just furo here It

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' s going to spread call and
forget about your franka. Even if sobte

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siva deperien are determined that there is
stagnant, to continue badly in the pear,

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that there is a lot of life
ahead, to continue worth the vera,

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you are not here by accident,
to continue worth the pear or ofuo

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uy ay yo mala, God is
with you become feli, sir you are

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not allowed good dream, forget of
your failure, although they are of serious

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silva. If andstene desay stagnant,
continue to be worth the pears, that

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there is a lot of life ahead, to continue pears, you are not

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here by accident, to continue worth
the sorrows and forget about your past,

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to continue worth the fight of mistakes, to learn, to continue worth the

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sorrows, or you are here by
accident. If it' s worth it,

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there' s a lot of life
ahead, still worth it for your

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safety. Use the belt. We
have replaced this announcement of nine hundred and

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seventy- three. Why not put
on your seatbelt looks like a thing of

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the past. Let' s see
what affects a collision at 50 kilometers per

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hour and tintiole for, but it' s not. Today. One in

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four road deaths was not wearing a
seat belt Put on a belt Directorate General

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of Traffic, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain will see in the

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discography signs in the effect that after
birth they may have problems of integration or

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difficulties in exercising professions of responsibility and
even situations in which their physical integrity or

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their life is endangered. But what' s it about, doctor, you

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' re gonna have a little girl. Discrimination against women in society leads to

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abuse of injustice and ill- treatment. Don' t let them in act

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with Amnesty Org Amnesty International, the
project studying in the United States and teaching

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them how to play football really are
Emilio and Raul and one of them has

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schizophrenia, but their dreams, like
anyone else' s, have no limits.

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Let' s not put them on
us. Integration is always the best

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response for the social inclusion of people
with mental health problems, Ministry of Health,

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equal social services of the Government of
Spain. If you want to visit

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our website, the WWWW. The
train of life. The train of life.

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Or so, ladies and gentlemen,
if we are this morning in direct

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line with Don Alfonso closet the N, as we have told you, he

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is a writer, lecturer, theologian
and also editor of editorial Clie, but

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we are talking to him this morning
about philosophy and Christianity. A man of

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understanding, versed in the question among
many others, among many others, and

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well we have the pleasure of talking
to him about philosophy and Christianity. They

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have something to do with each other
or the worst cases, according to some,

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are antagonistic. Someone has said that
religion does not work with reason,

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it works with feeling, with faith. That' s what Manuel García Morente

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says. There, in Buenos Aires, they call with that beautiful word that

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you have palpitos. When you work
with feeling and with faith, it is

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not done with rational evidence. Therefore, in some way religion can replace philosophy,

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but then religion does not serve means
anything, he tells us in his

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introduction to this book of philosophy and
Christianity. I don' t make such

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a statement. Don Manuel García tells
us, religion has a function and plays

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a role that is necessary in life. Well, come on, let'

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s see the subject of philosophy.
Good morning. Dear friend, Don Alfonso,

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wardrobe Hello, Well read, thank
you for being with us. Dear

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Alfonso, and philosophy and Christianity appear. Well this book, which was published

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some years ago, introduced to philosophy, one of them, a Christian perspective,

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and also the other philosophy and Christianity. Why these two books arose,

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this answer at that time and why
it is still current, Alfonso, because

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they did arise, like everything that
arises, from a personal restlessness, almost

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all our work, because it obeys
our person, our circumstances and always to

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state the philosophy since I have memory, well, not memory, but yes

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of quite young and after arriving at
the Faith, that for me it was

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an important act that changed my life, not in vain we call it a

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new birth and I believed, therefore, that the Faith has nothing to fear

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of reason. But the truth be
told in church settings and above all and

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the pastors always warned me against the
readings I was doing. So much as

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usual. I also like the Spanish
philosophy of you that hasé, Julián,

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Marías and others, and I was
a little annoyed that they believed that philosophy

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is a force, so to speak, high to the FE. In my

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case it wasn' t the other
way around in philosophy. I was greatly

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helped at a time of crisis of
faith by reading Soren Hetkergar, who was

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a great philosopher, as well as
a great believer in his study of mortal

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illness, which for him is sin. That study, that analysis was made

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to him, because he saved me
from a crisis. Then it was not

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only my experience that told me that
something had been wrong and wrong I thought

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good and tolerated it. Then,
in time, I didn' t get

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to tolerate it. At first.
I understand that the shepherds have not passed.

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Sometimes they have gone through seminars or
Bible schools where there is no subject

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dedicated to the history of thought or
philosophy with which they could have a general

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view, not only of the negative
aspects of philosophy, but of the positive

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ones. So, well, in
that case I attributed it to that ignorance.

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Not guilty and I didn' t
care. But when time goes by

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and you talk to more people within
our circles who should know and still try

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not to want to know the mutual
relations that exist and that there has always

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been and indeed Christianity from the beginning, already the Apostle Paul tried to dialogue

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with the Greeks in Athens. He
went there to the hill of Mars the

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aeropagus and had that splendid tremendous message. He is the one who deals most

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with the messages or sermons of the
Apostle Paul and Christianity has always had a

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concern to come to reason and what
will then be said to seek a regenerated

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reason. Reason you have spoken well
of feelings, emotions with what seems to

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play religion and it is true and
it is not true. Religion also has

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great reason for reason, for logic, for our understanding, so impossible sometimes

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to come to understand the existence of
a single and at the same time triune

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god, for it is a question
of debate and logic and much analysis.

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And the same is true of the
theme of divine incarnation, the theme of

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eternal damnation. To what extent are
all these subjects that, although they are

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religious, are philosophable in terms of
what they demand, logic and reason,

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that I have an answer, since
no one is happy not knowing things,

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I mean, no one wants to
be ignorant. We all like and enjoy

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knowing from childhood, we ask why
of everything and the older we ask ourselves,

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because the questions are already more complicated
and to no one, nobody is

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funny or convinces us and on the
other hand we are very depressed that we

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are thrown away with more uncle.
You don' t care about that.

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We want to know the philosophy of
that movement and religion, the Christian religion

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and all religions also want to know, they want to know what happens to

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the life of man after death.
There' s a beyond, there'

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s no beyond. In other words, religion also began in its origins as

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a philosophical question. If we understand
by philosophy, the search for knowledge,

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morals, knowledge, then religion what
happens, which is more ancient agnosses and

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is nourished by metaphors of myths that
make a lot of sense and have a

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philosophy. Let' s say in
embryo that we have to develop, there

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is a very rich symbolism, because, of course, all this comes from

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religion. Well from the origins of
man, even those who do not believe

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in the special creation of Adam and
Eve, to the same anthropologists who study

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the fossil gestures of man of atapuerca
or even more backward, to the early

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humans, for it is already observed
detail that they were religious men, religious

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beings by the way in which they
buried their dead paintings in the caves where

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they hid. So, religion was
the first logical and rational action of man

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to understand the mystery of the existence
of Christianity, for the continuity of that

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primordial man, created by God and
I repeat, does much harm to people,

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to churches, it is even to
the outside penmisar that there is an

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opposition between you reason and more to
what the feelings of ur Gai Gazet,

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who was not a believer, was
rather a goodagnostic, but a man who

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understood the Christian faith very well,
He did not speak of reason as some

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think the reason was devious. He
speaks of cordial reason. For me this

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is one of the most precious and
fruitful discoveries in my life. Cordial reason

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has to do with the Latin core, that is, with the heart.

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A reason that arises the heart.
Let' s get a head start on

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this. Ortegése is saying it.
He' s not telling you a believer.

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He is saying a man who has
analyzed the philosophy of his time and

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life, which is what worried him
the most, and he with his theory

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of reason vitalism, that is,
the vital reaction the reason that is based

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on life and that he understands that
reason is not an absolute, is a

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part of our life. And all
that Christianity defends, that truth is reached

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by feeling, by conversion, by
doing, by fulfilling the word that is

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not excluded, that is faith as
another text says, the apostle Paul.

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We have nothing against the truth,
but for the truth. The truth is

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what the Christian also seeks, seeks
it with other languages, other ways of

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speaking, and some, unfortunately,
do not seek because they think that good

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Christ is the truth, for if
they already have Christ so that they already

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have everything, but Christ more than
the concept they have in Christ. Christ

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always overcomes us and Christ has a
message also for the thinker and for the

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philosopher. But better, what to
leave any more questions to not be me

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just the crible, It' s
not very interesting in what you' re

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counting Alfonso. Gentlemen, we'
re talking to Alfonso wardrobe this morning about

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philosophy and Christianity. In addition,
he has written two works about introduction to

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philosophy, a Christian perspective, also
philosophy and Christianity, integral and integrative thought,

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very pedagogical books already a few years
ago that were written, but they

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are really very current as a perfect
introduction to philosophy even from the Christian perspective,

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but in faith and reason, in
those two parts of your work that

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you approach in such an interesting way
Alfonso this Christianity and philosophy, Christianity the

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only one that exists, of course, with many interpretations, of course,

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and philosophy that misunderstanding, almost chronic
between philosophy, reason and faith, that

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kind of demonization of philosophy that,
after all, philosophy is love of wisdom.

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Why, then, it does occur
because of historical causes. That is

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why the first book Cilsury of Christianity
and I call integral and integrative thought,

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because we have Christians, but we
also have to say that we are Christians,

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evangelicals or Protestants or charismatic or whatever
we want that we have a date

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of birth in Christ, in faith
but historically, because in the age of

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reform, in the sixteenth century,
where until that time, until the sixteenth

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century, philosophy had lived peacefully with
Christianity. And think about taking it to

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Timo Anselmo of Canterbury, Escotorigena and
all the greats of scholasticism. Philosophy,

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of course, sometimes seemed to complicate
religion and then lutero a satre with all

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philosophy in the name of the principle
of access, which was well to save.

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If philosophy is not needed, we
are not saved by knowledge, we

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are saved by God, who has
made for us the sacrifice of his son

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on the Cross. Then those were
seized, disintegrated the harmony or synthesis that

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had taken place, because when taking
from here it does not rationalize, so

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to speak, faith. He does
not do it to remove them, for

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the edges of the faith, to
deny the faith, but he is really

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fighting the thinkers and Islamists or Muslims
who in his time led philosophical thought and

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he thought that the Christian could not
stay behind, let' s say in

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this career of ideas. And furthermore, the Island is not that it had

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a philosophy superior to the Christian one. It is a fact historically demonstrated that

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Islam, as it conquered territories,
over all the territories that had previously been

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Christians, because the whole part of
Palestine, Syria, North Africa there were

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therefore very rich Christian communities and when
they conquered then, already part more oriental,

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they appropriated the books that were Christian
in Greek, that in which they

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were concerned to fear philosophical and thus
discover a new world. And the same

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thing makes him take it from here
to discover that new world that the Church

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had left a little aside. But
of course, for three hundred years all

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the scholastics were debating the issues and
the error or confusion arises between not knowing,

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to delineate what is the way of
salvation that so much as the churches.

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In this case, if it is
implemented very clearly, the path of

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salvation is open to ignorance and worship, to all equally, because it is

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not based on the logical or rational
perception we have of God and his doctrine,

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but on trust in a God who
offers us salvation in a free way.

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That is the change of salvation,
but it is for him also of

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salvation. There comes a path of
follow- up, of discipleship in which

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one is not only called to love
God and to love the next, but

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is also called to evangelize, that
is, to share his faith with others,

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to give reasons for his faith and
for the reasons of our faith.

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Not only can we say believe and
repent and then you will understand the old

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cer already days. He is one
of the first Jewish Christian philosophers to be

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called Martyr, because he certainly died
as Martyr during the Roman Empire. The

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first three chases. He is a
man who tries to convince his fellow men,

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his fellow countrymen and in his time, embarrassing himself as a philosopher with

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a white robe, a robe,
which is what they wore, but is

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thus called a philosopher of Christ.
They had nothing against why, because the

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Philosopher and that' s rescuing.
This aspect is also a kind of religion.

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Laity when people lose faith is not
that they stop believing in anything.

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Just take a substitute. Normally today
these books, which have been so popular,

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which is more platoon and less profane
many others and rescue what in its

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beginning was philosophy an orientation in life, when Christianity also an orientation in life.

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Christianity also responds or tries to respond
to the great concerns that distress us

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all what I do here and where
I go, what sense that in my

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life and Christianity with religious languages,
gives some answers. But that these answers

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given by religious language can be argued
by Julián Marías to the Spanish philosopher that

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he, if he was a Christian, said that religion is not a philosophy.

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But in Christianity it is not a
philosophy, because it is a way

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of salvation. But of him very
moment that salvation affects man and man in

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society. Man and society are philosophable
themes, and Christianity needs a philosophy to

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understand man, which is the so- called anthropological philosophy to understand society,

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than in sociology. Then today we
would say, then, that psychology and

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so many elements that enter into the
most amazing thing on this planet that man

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will see and, as he says, that the crown of creation is the

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man who bears the divine image and
likeness. So, for that we need

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in philosophy how we need the sciences. Then, if the yglesias in some

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way develop an antagonistic spirit, disintegrating
faith and reason, for the truth deprives

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young people of the future or places
them in a presence that made fremic,

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on the one hand Christian, with
the heart and, on the other hand,

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mediagnostics, almost with the brain.
That cannot be allowed and must be

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maintained and served in both directions that
we can learn and at the same time

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teach something in these fields and if
not, then of course, we mortgage

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the future. And unfortunately, that
mortgage and that' s why our churches,

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unfortunate people, sometimes focus a lot
on the most popular classes, that

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you have to get to them,
in the conflicting classes, with problems of

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00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:32.199
some kind of dependence, whether drugs
or alcohol or, this is good to

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get to these people of the Christian, that much more. We have something

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to say to the marginalized and to
people with problems, but also to educated

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people who want to know and who
need as the one who knows the love

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that for us is the supreme love
of God. And so. But in

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the reform, by separating that synthesis
that happened and getting the question what happens,

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the churches began to look at themselves
a lot and began the Lutheran Calvinist

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divisions, similians to abatis, also
onites, and so up to one hundred

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and six hundred branches that in fixed
places in how to get to the world

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and present a coherent vision of the
faith is that each one defends his peculiarities,

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the one that is arminialism, that
the Calvinist to Calvinism and loses the

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best ceres and the best efforts in
internal struggles, instead of understanding that society

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and that world to which we are
called to serve and that for that we

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must study it and not devote so
much time to fighting each other when we

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are called to be light and salt
of the world. This is, by

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the way, many of these theologies
influenced by a strong philosophical component, especially

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Greek. Of some of those theologies
that you have mentioned by influence, no

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doubt, but beyond that, for
example, in the history of the fathers

401
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of the Church, noble men as
hygienes and I think Tertullian Eusebius himself,

402
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:09.480
Augustine himself, whom we respect so
much, men eminently with a formation of

403
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the apostle Paul himself, with an
intellectual and philosophical formation, beyond the mystical

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and spiritual, which was the essentiality
of his experience. But evidently, he

405
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:27.679
was a man with a great intellectual
background, right, and others on the

406
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list are endless, exactly on the
list is endless. But all the patristics

407
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:39.280
were in more, especially the cappadocios, the Greeks. This comes from philosophy,

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00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:43.760
they become Christians and the fervor for
faith leads him to neglect philosophy a

409
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.360
little, But of course, they
have that philosophical background that is given in

410
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:52.400
his works. Agustín The same.
Augustine comes from the rhetorical formation, which

411
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:57.159
was the academic formation that was then
given included logic, which was philosophy,

412
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:02.280
included language, it was to be
able to defend itself by transmitting ideas.

413
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.480
And he, for he is not
the father almost of modernity. I am

414
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.400
referring to Gustin and with faith and
one reads his comments that he makes to

415
00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:17.119
Genesis or to anyone else and you
are amazed at his psychological and theological and

416
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:23.000
human penetration of the biblical texts,
because he has a full formation of the

417
00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:28.679
culture of his time and knows how
to draw out the Bible, for riches

418
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:34.280
that sometimes we do not extract if
we do not study and investigate him and

419
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:39.480
the same can be said all the
Augustinian schools that followed him and, as

420
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:45.639
he has mentioned origins, that it
was also a portent of knowledge and openness.

421
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:51.840
And at the same time, the
first systematic theologian in his Treaty of

422
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:58.360
Principles is all the most complete theology
that even pagans used to solve certain questions.

423
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:06.800
And yet, I repeat, that
is broken in reform. Then sanctism

424
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.719
and its logic and understanding have its
cause. But of course, it'

425
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:14.599
s been five hundred years. We
can' t be anchored in the past.

426
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:21.480
And that is the problem that many
people who just want to do a

427
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:27.400
dichotomy between gospel and cultural life,
who do not understand that we also have

428
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:32.519
a cultural mission and the gospel holds
us only for the abhorrent sinner who is

429
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:37.480
in the vice of the Gospel.
It also has to enlighten the person who

430
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.440
is apparently good, even if he
is a sinner, who has concerns,

431
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:49.519
but whose logic at the moment does
not allow him to accept the faith because

432
00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.159
it sounds irrational to them. But
also in this century there have been cases

433
00:41:52.199 --> 00:42:00.360
of spectacular conversions of highly formed philosophers, specifically who have embraced Christianity. Moreover,

434
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:06.639
in most universities, especially Spanish,
there are professors of philosophy where we

435
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:15.440
have a series of philosophers with a
Christian background, usually Catholic. But if

436
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:22.519
I think Abran Jacinto Choza, Carlos
Barils and others, can amazing the number

437
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:28.559
there is, I would say that
almost one by university are doing very important

438
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:32.079
works, especially anthropological studies, which
is the field of philology and that we

439
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.000
must take advantage of. The one
I mentioned before Julian Marias was the roof

440
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:43.360
of a book dedicated to the process
of Christianity, problems of Christianity and its

441
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.679
metaphysical anthropology. Jabía El Zubiri is
one of the greatest philosophers in Spain,

442
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:52.400
or has already died, but also
worldwide. He is a figure on whom

443
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:58.599
studies are carried out internationally and was
a man, an integral defender of the

444
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:01.840
Christian faith, that is, that
this must be taken into account, of

445
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:08.079
bearing in mind that we have to
abandon. It' s a mini-

446
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:15.199
infraculture ghetto in which we sometimes move, There' s a perum your We

447
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:20.880
have a cultural underworld and although our
young people, fortunately, have more and

448
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:23.320
more access to higher education. But
even in the churches this culture of infra

449
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:27.239
- culture is maintained. That'
s right, that' s right.

450
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:35.039
We' re talking to Don Alfonso
wardrobe about philosophy and Christianity. What would

451
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.599
then be the boundaries between philosophy and
theology. There, yes, there must

452
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:45.440
be some border. There, well, the borders. Of course we'

453
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.599
ll see her. The issue has
been under discussion for many years, but

454
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:53.400
it is quite right. I believe
it is a study that has already been

455
00:43:53.440 --> 00:44:00.639
overcome today, especially in the so- called historical churches, Churches that have

456
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:05.559
people dedicated to theological study. And
such we would bring are very missionary churches,

457
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:12.239
with little preparation, because most of
our energy is devoted to social work

458
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:17.679
and evangelisms. Then, but the
border does not exist, that is,

459
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:23.199
in reasonable writing. And if the
FAITH were unreasonable, we could not communicate

460
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:29.559
it. In order for one thing
to be able, someone can accept it,

461
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:30.960
they have to understand it and for
them we have to present it in

462
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:35.199
a logical way. And because it
is logical and reasonable, it is communicable

463
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:39.840
and the FAITH is communicable from the
beginning. Then the border more than the

464
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:44.519
border. I would say, what
needs to be done is the inculus of

465
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:49.960
Christian initiation. I tried with these
volumes that fortunately already have five or six

466
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.280
editions that have sold very well in
Latin America. Every time I' m

467
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:58.039
known more than anything by that book
today, sometimes also by mail when I

468
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:00.199
' m seen on Facebook or in
other media. I' ve read your

469
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:04.679
book and I' m glad.
What is more, I can say from

470
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:10.920
people who today are, people who
are emerging in the evangelical world that my

471
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:17.000
first book saved him, as to
me perhaps also from existential anguish and anxiety

472
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:23.079
of faith, such a loss of
faith by discovering that possible compatibility between faith

473
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:28.840
and reason and gladdening me these testimonies
of children of shepherds. I have even

474
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:34.199
received some other e- mail for
saying the help they had when they took

475
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:38.719
salt out of their minds that,
as Christians, they had to be multifaceted,

476
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.719
so to speak intellectually. No,
and that' s the first job.

477
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:46.920
We have to be informed, we
have to be informed and we have

478
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:51.320
to lose our fear. In this
sense, it would be necessary to do

479
00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:55.000
with the words that the father who
were or Catholics in the previous one,

480
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.400
but that it was interesting and to
pass to me a good motto. Don

481
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:00.960
' t be afraid. Do not
be afraid of the Christian and, in

482
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:07.480
fact, the scripture also says that
we face whether we have the truth of

483
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.119
God, how we can have human
truth. Human truth is partial, circumstantial.

484
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:19.119
It is perspectives and all partial truths
that must be integrated into a more

485
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:23.159
general truth than into the Christian faith, a faith that has already been two

486
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:27.559
thousand years and in those two thousand
years, I believe that a body of

487
00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:32.239
doctrines has been created with sufficient reasons
to convince even the most intellectually restless.

488
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:39.519
Salvation is something else. That is
always a personal decision of a person who

489
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:45.320
becomes or does not, for because
he understands or why he has touched himself

490
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.760
by God, but what is the
understanding of the Christian faith, what others

491
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:59.119
call apologetics or fundamental theology or foundations. Today there is an enormous amount of

492
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:04.679
literature in this area, very instructive
and, furthermore, sincerely, of academic

493
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:10.280
value. To me, enviable,
something that really excites me, but you

494
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:15.000
lied. I know that these are
books that go unnoticed in our field and

495
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:22.039
that this, without realizing the so- called leaders or leaders, has an

496
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:24.559
impact on the future of rooting faith
in young people. I do not know

497
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:29.239
only about enthusiasm, because enthusiasm goes
well for ten, one or two or

498
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:34.679
three twenty years. But the Christian
faith is a faith of resistance, it

499
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.960
is a good springntro like the world
in a day. Life says so many

500
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:42.320
years. It' s resistance.
Christ told him to put the plow'

501
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:46.360
s hand forward and not look back. And for that it takes very convinced

502
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:51.960
people, enthusiastic people. I have
been a shepherdess year, in about twenty

503
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.280
years and I have seen them and
or an enthusiast and, unfortunately, at

504
00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:00.840
a time when they go out or
go away, we need people who are

505
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.920
enthusiastic, but also, who are
convinced, who know what they believe,

506
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:10.199
because when one is convinced of something, I think it persists more, the

507
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:15.320
most firm one continues as the skeleton
of the church, which there is maintained

508
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:20.679
not only of the most vaporous aspects. I remember, when I met the

509
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.679
lord late, I joined the culture
because I didn' t even know how

510
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:31.119
to read. I learned to read
better by reading the New Testament and joined

511
00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:35.840
the culture very tacitly and then I
started and then I did. I prepared

512
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:40.519
for university access very late, but
I did start reading and reading everything that

513
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:45.360
fell into my hands of the time, the Red Book of Pauma, all

514
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:51.880
the characters, the communist manifesto,
etcetera. Of course, Nixi and all

515
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.159
of his work and the madman used
everything to everyone who came from behind and

516
00:48:54.199 --> 00:49:00.599
further back and further back. And
in the end, although it is evident

517
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.960
that there are many risks and in
those works, when in the convictions of

518
00:49:05.039 --> 00:49:07.679
ugly are internalized, when there is
no disciple in the life of the well

519
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:09.760
- rooted client. But when there
is, as was my case, that

520
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:15.840
it was happening to me they revitalized
me more in my faith they encouraged me

521
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:21.679
to be Christian, that is to
say it can have an effect for some

522
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:27.440
antagonistic, but for others revulsive.
Right, yes, exactly. It'

523
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:31.760
s helpful. There is an author
in Colombian clie, artur Iván Rojas,

524
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:39.239
because he has written a book created
to believe, to understand and another I

525
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:45.000
do not remember the title of two
books has written that they are sportsal,

526
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:49.320
because the idea is that most people
read it every day a phrase from a

527
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.000
philosopher and an academic and then he
gives his explanation. No or the day

528
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:58.079
of the shepherd gives his Christian explanation
and a biblical text, but it always

529
00:49:58.159 --> 00:50:01.320
begins with phrases, trying to introduce
the general guilt. And this boy who

530
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:07.400
is producing these works, when the
boy is already forty comes from the drug

531
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.920
of the street of Colombia, not
from anyone, as the Pasano Apostle says,

532
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.039
that the vile and despised God chose, but not to continue to do

533
00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:22.039
in the vileness and less price,
but precisely to make in us new people,

534
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:30.639
new concerns. Paul called that the
regenerated reason and then this art uriban

535
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.239
and I know other cases. I
don' t already say it' s

536
00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:36.920
an example of a person being dejected. He himself told me there he was

537
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:43.519
throwing it in the street, thinking
only when to get a new dose of

538
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:45.719
drugs and somehow surprising because of the
insistence of certain people. Well, he

539
00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:50.320
comes to the faith and not only
does he come, but today he'

540
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:52.679
s a but I think he'
s a future writer. He is a

541
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:57.199
teacher, in a great seminary,
in a church is called house on the

542
00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:00.559
rock that are the ten eleven zero
members and is the responsibility of education.

543
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:05.519
This indicates, therefore, the regenerative
force of Christianity, not only in a

544
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:09.199
moral plan, but also in an
intellectual plan, that bad habits, alcohol

545
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:14.639
habits, drugs must naturally be changed. Whatever it is, then it is

546
00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:17.800
also necessary to change the bad,
mental habits, laziness, ignorance, and

547
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:24.760
that which is sometimes forgotten. It
has also taken me a lot to get

548
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:30.480
to the little I know and a
lot of self- taught, because everyone

549
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:36.800
was dangerous and I had to find
my own books and my own studies,

550
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:39.880
and that' s why the situation
hurts. But, I repeat, I

551
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:45.760
have learned more from all these thinkers, not only philosophers, but from the

552
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:51.719
whole field of human knowledge that brings
me to today. As you said,

553
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:58.039
I am excited, because my faith, but not my parish, but my

554
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:00.639
Christian faith, which is broader,
an open faith, in a faith that

555
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:07.000
has answers and that we can be
proud of. I know that there are

556
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:12.559
many things I don' t understand
and after many years studying there, I

557
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:19.000
still have many questions, but the
basic certainties are there and I think they

558
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:24.920
are always a key to understanding,
because any subject that haunts us concerns us

559
00:52:25.000 --> 00:52:31.400
economics, politicians, etcetera. If, then, the churches must invest in

560
00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:36.639
education, in education of their leaders, first and also of the members,

561
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:40.800
so that, as the Apostle Peter
says, we may know the reason of

562
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:49.199
our faith and against those who oppose
it, not only respond with clichés or

563
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:52.639
disqualifications, for that an atheist is
an unbeliever. No, no, people

564
00:52:52.760 --> 00:53:00.119
don' t believe, not only
for irrational reasons, but because this complex

565
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:07.360
world needs answers. And I think
the answers, though so complex, are

566
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:12.519
there. Sinism, he has a
lot to say. Yes, sir Yes,

567
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:20.039
I really did, Alfonso, I
really liked this interview. I'

568
00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:23.079
m a fan of the subject,
too. I am a man and,

569
00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:30.039
like you and many others, I
have a need for a deeply spiritual experience.

570
00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:36.440
I do not understand the Christian life
in any other way, but it

571
00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:38.880
is not antagonistic at all. All
that I have said I believe is complementary

572
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:45.119
and also necessary to explain this world
and many of the currents of socio-

573
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:50.320
political thought and human behavior. So, this would give a lot of itself.

574
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:54.639
But these books philosophy and Christianity by
Alfonso closet introduction to philosophy we can

575
00:53:54.719 --> 00:54:00.400
find them again, because they are
magnificent Alfonso that have continued to be edited.

576
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:05.679
In fact, the second to be
introduced to philosophy covers two thousand years

577
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:09.679
of guando, the four thousand years
of philosophy from the pre- Socratic to

578
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:13.800
the present. So, for an
initiation it' s more than enough.

579
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:15.119
I don' t know the resource, but it' s the pages.

580
00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:19.000
I don' t remember how many
anymore. But it is not a light

581
00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:22.920
treatment, a deep treatment of what
philosophy has said about God, that is,

582
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:29.760
it is tractor of Canto or of
Chopenhauer, older of aristoteles Plato is

583
00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:31.519
a journey, that is, the
introduction is not so much to as phil

584
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:38.760
know Philosopher, but have thought philosophers
throughout history. The first is more of

585
00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:46.519
Christian faira arguments and philosophy. Much
I was thinking of interlocutors like Fernando Sabater

586
00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:53.320
and the philosopher Ateo who challenges me
to think then a little more complex,

587
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:59.760
but it is very interesting for those
who already know some philosophy. The second

588
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:02.400
is a journey through the history of
philosophy from the perspective of faith and I

589
00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:08.559
think they are still books of course, they are very useful today, of

590
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:14.199
course what I think to add and
already the last currents, but that does

591
00:55:14.280 --> 00:55:17.440
not affect philosophy in general at all. And now good, for that afank

592
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:22.639
that one always has to deepen and
curl the curl what is in itself the

593
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:30.440
essence of the knowledge of the relationship
between faith and reason. Philosophy Christianity is

594
00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:36.239
more than enough put in these two
books and they are accessible both in the

595
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:39.239
publishing house, but they go better
in the evangelical bookstores. Even I'

596
00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:44.679
ve seen him in Amazon at the
book house. You can ask from anywhere,

597
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:51.480
because there is that Philosophy and Christianity
of Alfonso Ropero introduction to philosophy.

598
00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:59.480
Gentlemen and gentlemen and think hard,
let us think of the words that Don

599
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:02.840
Alfonso has dedicated to us on this
subject have something to do with each other

600
00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:06.559
philosophy and Christianity, or they are
antagonistic. I think the answers are served.

601
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:08.320
There' s a lot more.
It is a subject that would give

602
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:12.679
a whole three- hour program,
such as the train of life, but

603
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:15.119
we will leave it there and again
we will take it back for your great

604
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:21.239
interest. Dear Alfonso, thank you
so much for appearing this morning publicly on

605
00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:25.159
the radio, thanks to you,
and I hope that we will continue and

606
00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:29.800
with that subject of teritality in philosophy. It would be very interesting, because

607
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:32.360
also tremendous several books on this subject, not mine, but by very competent

608
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:38.440
authors, because there we are placed
with that theme spirituality and also philosophy,

609
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:58.159
a hug very affectionate until always.
Dear friend, likewise, the train of

610
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:23.480
life, life, life R How
many are we going to celebrate, what

611
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:32.880
can be heard, what are we
partying? You can' t shut up,

612
00:57:34.840 --> 00:57:45.440
the intensity goes up, which place
is shaking? All together we'

613
00:57:45.719 --> 00:58:00.719
re going to sing, all my
two of us are going to live you,

614
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:13.920
I' m going to and the
enchanted to enchant without poya paralyzing,

615
00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:23.679
go malar, enjoy with nothing.
It' s not the ladies our da

616
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:30.719
wata force. Let us celebrate,
let him live us, save us,

617
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:40.400
and not I see that you will
not go back to the humility, for

618
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:53.280
his grace to wait. Let'
s all sing together, all Christ,

619
00:58:57.320 --> 00:59:08.760
let' s shout that I'
m going to scratch, revenge without for

620
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:22.159
good facha, I' m going
to see go of lifeless sar and fuck

621
00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:38.280
to sing, is that in fucking, gar, harassing, sid vina you

622
00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:43.280
are oh. Thankful we are with
the Lord because he has saved us when

623
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:51.840
they say threats to see like this, jesus to let us get rid of

624
00:59:51.840 --> 01:00:00.679
books. What a great mistress.
Jesus, Jesus forgives us and we can

625
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:12.519
neither the Lord. But either Jesus
did not go to the or what a

626
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:21.719
great death of the partner woman.
Jesus forgives us for what or what good

627
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:40.880
lord he so longs to sing,
is that he judges if anything, if

628
01:00:42.000 --> 01:01:00.719
those that he will give me,
or it is well your voice, dance

629
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:07.400
see thing our ten see the law
of Traffic and Road Safety has changed.

630
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:12.079
We changed the rules, because the
way we moved has also changed. That

631
01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:15.800
is why now the deadline to recover
the initial point jump is two years,

632
01:01:15.079 --> 01:01:21.360
without committing infringements that involve the loss
of points. New times, new rules.

633
01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:24.320
Directorate- General for Traffic, Ministry
of the Interior, Government of Spain.

634
01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:28.280
Sixty- eight percent of minors have
consumed alcohol in the last month.

635
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:37.800
It causes physical damage and generates family
conflicts, but calm. I' m

636
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:43.480
sure your daughter doesn' t really
drink minors without alcohol, Educate, report,

637
01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:46.079
prevent. Government of Spain. Juan
invests 180 euros a month in suffering.

638
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:52.760
Alberto invests 200 euros in extortion,
Carlos invests 150 euros in kidnappings.

639
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:58.599
Every time you pay you' re
investing in mobs, extortion, sheep,

640
01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:01.239
help them out, don' t
invest, suffering against trafficking in women.

641
01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:07.159
The Government of Spain is aware of
this. If you want to visit our

642
01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:12.400
website the wwwwww point the train of
life. The train of life, all

643
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:50.079
that matters. Or what happens to
us when we lie clinical psychologist Daniel Gaso

644
01:02:50.159 --> 01:02:53.960
is going to tear the subject apart
today we are going to challenge him,

645
01:02:54.400 --> 01:02:59.440
let' s ask him some things
about why we lie according to the lying

646
01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:01.239
dictionary, that is, one thing
that is not true with intent to deceive.

647
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:08.400
If we look for a more academic
definition, we will find expression or

648
01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:13.159
manifestation contrary to what is believed,
thought or known. So whoever deceives or

649
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:17.119
confuses without being aware of it,
does not lie, simply transmits to others

650
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:22.800
his own mistake. The relationship that
each person maintains with the lie, in

651
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:27.400
addition to saying a lot of it, is very different from that of others.

652
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.440
Some only resort to lying when it
is compassionate or when it provides positive

653
01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:37.880
results, without generating any relevant deception
or if it is a trivial matter.

654
01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:45.800
Finally, there are also those who
often need to lie almost by habit and

655
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:53.320
only on irrelevant issues. However,
we cannot forget those who lie sporadically but

656
01:03:53.519 --> 01:04:00.760
consciously, causing harm to others or
pursuing personal benefits. And there are also

657
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:05.199
people who tend to lie or to
silence necessary truths out of shyness, shame

658
01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:13.320
or lack of character. Finally,
we must mention pathological liars who lie with

659
01:04:13.480 --> 01:04:17.800
a surprising ease, either for convenience
or for an absolute and cynical lack of

660
01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:25.159
respect for the truth. However,
even these people are not immune to some

661
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:31.440
of the psychological and even physiological effects
that lie produces on each of us when

662
01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:38.719
we practice it. Well, what
happens to us when we lie. There

663
01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:43.320
we have Don Daniel Gaso or clinical
psychologist who is going to talk to us

664
01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:50.559
this morning opening New Year. Good
morning, dear, Daniel, good morning,

665
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:54.719
July, and good morning to all
who listen to us. Faithfully,

666
01:04:56.119 --> 01:05:00.400
Daniel, but why we lied.
That' s a big question. We

667
01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:05.480
lied to Julio for countless reasons.
The truth is that we lie out of

668
01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:14.000
convenience, out of hatred, out
of compassion, out of envy, out

669
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:15.199
of selfishness or out of necessity.
Sometimes there are even people who think they

670
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:21.280
need to lie or as a defense
against aggression. But the margin, the

671
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:26.480
origin or the motivation for the when
we lie, as all lies are equal

672
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:33.440
as to their effects. The most
harmful ones are for our psyches. These

673
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:40.639
are the lies we want not to
take responsibility for the consequences of our actions,

674
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:45.360
that is, we lie to avoid
a responsibility or a consequence of something

675
01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:48.599
we have done previously. And inside
this group. Even the least permissible and

676
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:57.159
most harmful lies are those that harm
those who are wrong or can lead to

677
01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:00.880
the recipient or the lie who will
be believing making decisions that harm him,

678
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:05.280
that is, leaving someone and that
person because he makes a decision based on

679
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:10.920
that lie thinking that it is real, that it is true wrong and it

680
01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:15.599
is hurt. Therefore, we can
draw the conclusion that the two great parameters

681
01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:23.639
essential to calibrate the gravity of the
lie is the intention that drives it and

682
01:06:23.719 --> 01:06:29.239
the effect that causes this lie.
Our relationship to lying, that is,

683
01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:33.199
how often we lie and how serious
those lies are, we can consider it

684
01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:39.719
as a kind of value that what
it does is measure our degree of responsibility

685
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:45.679
and maturity, how we face frustrations, and whether we are consistent with attitudes

686
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:51.920
of behavior in our lives. That' s what usually happens when an environment

687
01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:57.559
and when someone' s lie is
exposed, which is the sign of the

688
01:06:57.719 --> 01:07:01.800
level of coherence and maturity in our
lives. Of course, of course,

689
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:06.320
one of the main foundations upon which
human relationships are built and sustained. Daniel

690
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:12.320
is trust. What is the relationship
between trust and lies in the framework of

691
01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:17.960
human relations? Yeah,' cause
that similar question you' re having a

692
01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:18.960
bit of an obriety, isn'
t it? But instead, it'

693
01:07:19.079 --> 01:07:23.800
s not. It is quite the
opposite, because the whole relationship between human

694
01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:28.000
beings would not require trust if we
were transparent, Julius. But we'

695
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:31.960
re not. The reality is that
we are not transparent to fully discover our

696
01:07:32.079 --> 01:07:39.880
intimacy before a person of our intimacy
that contains purposes and intentions that, without

697
01:07:39.960 --> 01:07:44.039
attempting to do so, could harm
a conversation or an interaction with that person,

698
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:46.280
which would be to stop it from
social organization. For example, imagine

699
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:50.119
that the Christmas dinner, now that
it has been done quite a lot lately,

700
01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:56.880
is placed in the companies of this
year, because I don' t

701
01:07:56.960 --> 01:08:00.880
know you feel talked about your co- worker or with whom you form team

702
01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:05.199
throughout the year and this fellow appears
with a brilliant American, with a scandalous

703
01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:10.280
print of red moles and on a
white background, to say something at any

704
01:08:10.360 --> 01:08:13.719
time your typical opinion about his dress. However, in the middle of the

705
01:08:13.880 --> 01:08:19.199
dinner, he gets up to give
a speech about the past year and about

706
01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:27.319
the company partner file, for example, of course, when you are exchanging

707
01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:30.359
impressions about his speech. Then,
apart from the two of us, you

708
01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:33.399
' re convinced I' m a
dresser. It has not helped in any

709
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:36.760
way to strengthen their credibility and enchantment. However, it follows that your thoughts

710
01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:42.199
are not transparent. You don'
t have a little conflict with your work

711
01:08:42.199 --> 01:08:47.640
cloth. If he discovers that you
find his clothing, then really inappropriate or

712
01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:51.880
even ridiculous. In essence, we
all resort to a communication protocol and pretend

713
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:58.760
and disguise are, even if it
costs to recognize the essential components of that

714
01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:01.039
kind of agreement or what kind of
a deal we have. We' re

715
01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:04.640
not as sincere in the whole world. That' s obvious. We all

716
01:09:04.760 --> 01:09:09.640
show a certain degree of opacity among
others and the truth is that not always

717
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:16.359
more sincerity generates greater confidence. We
all know that information is power and knowing

718
01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:21.479
everything about someone amounts to a way
of being a kind of possessor of that

719
01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:26.800
person. It' s in our
remal. In a certain way and in

720
01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:30.319
a certain sense, the depth of
friendship or love between two people is measured

721
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:38.319
by the degree of reciprocal knowledge of
intimacy between the two. That happens a

722
01:09:38.319 --> 01:09:43.560
lot, especially in couples. Trust
is a basic attitude because it presides over

723
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:48.000
all interactions between people. We need
it, but we use it in the

724
01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:53.880
dose that, according to our judgment, each one of us needs to be

725
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:57.800
the pure truth at the moment when
communication with the other person arises, because

726
01:09:57.840 --> 01:10:00.800
we pass that we need to place
in it a degree of trust, which

727
01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:05.520
is the thermometer of the bond we
have with that person. The more confident

728
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:09.920
the bond is, the deeper it
is. One of the most negative effects

729
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:15.000
of lying is that we disappoint each
other' s confidence and before their eyes

730
01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:18.720
we stop being reliable dension That'
s very important. I lose reliability in

731
01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:23.960
the eyes, in the eyes of
quintence. That means that one of the

732
01:10:24.039 --> 01:10:31.079
destructive effects of lying is its ability
to destroy meaningful relationships. And the peculiarity

733
01:10:31.159 --> 01:10:35.159
of this destructive effect is that the
greater the significance, that is, the

734
01:10:35.199 --> 01:10:41.680
more important the relationship, the greater
the degree of destruction lies. Of course,

735
01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:47.199
lying certainly destroys trust between people,
it is the erosion, especially when

736
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:58.000
the lie is discovered in an already
categorical way. It destroys trust among friends,

737
01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:04.359
even among intersociated wells and among people
in general. And it really is

738
01:11:04.359 --> 01:11:12.760
now. The handling of the lie
means we should never lie. But of

739
01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:17.079
course, but the handling of the
lie has many bad consequences. Lies don

740
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:21.159
' t really have good consequences,
ever. Never. The truth is,

741
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:26.720
it' s never a reality.
This never has good consequences. But,

742
01:11:26.800 --> 01:11:30.399
however, living in an environment,
in society that seems to be that good,

743
01:11:30.199 --> 01:11:33.560
nothing happens. If that is a
love mind, that the relationship of

744
01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:39.279
couple does not resent, that still
well and are a series of inventions that

745
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:45.199
we turn, inventions I see that
social that are not really deceptions, do

746
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:49.359
not work. The real thing that
lies produce something positive at some point is

747
01:11:50.560 --> 01:11:55.199
not true. That' s right, it hurts the truth, but,

748
01:11:56.319 --> 01:11:59.640
well, we' ll talk about
it really. What it means to trust

749
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:05.079
someone, For trusting someone means to
believe that the chances of being deceived by

750
01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:10.359
some lie on that person are very
rare or nonexistent. I mean, I

751
01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:14.840
don' t think I' m
gonna be fooled if you start a relationship

752
01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:16.479
that way with someone, because that
relationship isn' t gonna be healthy.

753
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:21.880
Of course, if we want to
be credible and enjoy the benefits of a

754
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:27.960
relationship of trust from others, we
should completely banish deception, mean, truth

755
01:12:28.439 --> 01:12:32.720
and misdirected information. The credit we
have before others, which is very fragile,

756
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:38.279
is always something fragile and is not
perennial, does not remain forever,

757
01:12:38.600 --> 01:12:43.520
as it is updated and reviewed in
each action. I mean, two people

758
01:12:43.640 --> 01:12:48.479
can today have fantastic trust in their
relationship, but tomorrow one of them lies

759
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:56.159
to the other. And it'
s like you' re updating that reliability

760
01:12:56.279 --> 01:12:59.319
in every dialogue and every interaction.
We must bear in mind that it is

761
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:03.920
being reviewed. If we in lied
at some point that reliability was there it

762
01:13:03.920 --> 01:13:10.199
is not, and it is then
the responsibility of each of us to relate

763
01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:13.239
from the truth. What is evident
is that each one must decide how much

764
01:13:14.119 --> 01:13:18.199
of his intimacy. That' s
a reality, how much of that intimacy

765
01:13:18.279 --> 01:13:23.239
you want to share with each person
that we need to be clear about how

766
01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:25.640
much of my intimacy. I want
to share with someone, with the person

767
01:13:25.720 --> 01:13:29.359
I have in front of me.
It is important because we have to know

768
01:13:29.359 --> 01:13:33.159
to respond, putting limits on our
intimacy in every interaction, as we are

769
01:13:33.159 --> 01:13:36.800
authentic. The thing that is said
a lot is a very authentic person.

770
01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:40.159
That' s worth it if the
only thing. That means living with the

771
01:13:40.239 --> 01:13:45.880
doors permanently open with everyone and even
if we receive pressure, appealing to authenticity,

772
01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:51.159
one of the ways to avoid feeling
that we should disown those who demand

773
01:13:51.199 --> 01:13:56.960
a level of intimacy is to lie, and that is the big problem that

774
01:13:57.039 --> 01:14:02.439
sometimes there are people who seem to
demand that we be more transparent, that

775
01:14:02.560 --> 01:14:08.279
we behave more things of our intimacy
and sometimes the fear of sharing that is

776
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:13.439
going to lie curiously to us,
that is, trying not to desert anyone

777
01:14:13.479 --> 01:14:15.720
because we are not authentic. We
ended up in a mortuary. Yeah,

778
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:19.960
yeah, yeah. I have raised
this many times the need that one does

779
01:14:20.199 --> 01:14:27.199
not mean and is not obliged to
say their intimacies, but we should do

780
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.399
so in such a way that it
is not necessarily lying. So it'

781
01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:39.600
s like knowing, putting a stop
to our saying the discrectional being in terms

782
01:14:41.119 --> 01:14:44.920
of saying what we want the other, our interlocutor, to know is a

783
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:48.399
friend more to the arrival or less
has arrived, but without the need to

784
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:51.760
lie, to have the ability and
the art of saying. So far I

785
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:57.319
want to tell you what I want
to tell you, but to hide what

786
01:14:57.399 --> 01:15:02.039
I don' t want to tell
you, I don' t want to

787
01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:04.000
lie to you exactly that, because
the way you said it Julio is a

788
01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:06.760
good way to do it. Explaining
to the person looks. I' m

789
01:15:06.800 --> 01:15:11.880
not gonna feel comfortable. If I
share more details, if from such a

790
01:15:12.039 --> 01:15:16.119
thing of so other, I will
feel very uncomfortable and sincerely want to be

791
01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:18.359
too. On the other hand,
I want to be very honest with you.

792
01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:24.239
I' d rather tell you this
is the truth and that you know

793
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:27.319
that all I' m telling you
is 100% of the truth. Yes,

794
01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:30.640
so there is no part of that
truth that is added and that you

795
01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:35.319
do not know or that it is
hidden and should not, etc, etc,

796
01:15:35.600 --> 01:15:41.119
of course, but that who I
have such respect for our relationship that

797
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:45.680
I want you to be able to
affirm at all times that what I have

798
01:15:45.720 --> 01:15:53.159
told you is real, authentic and
and, in fact, who harms the

799
01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:55.560
lie Daniel the lie the most,
although it greatly harms the recipient. Of

800
01:15:55.680 --> 01:15:59.880
course, to whom you most harm
the emitter, to whom you mint,

801
01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:03.760
who lies, since it makes him
a unreliable person. He is therefore unworthy

802
01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:09.479
of trust in no social credit.
Of course the person knows that. But

803
01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:14.239
sooner or later it is what the
popular reformer says that he catches a liar

804
01:16:14.319 --> 01:16:17.119
more than a lame one before,
because it is a reality. He ends

805
01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:25.840
up being caught lying because lying is
exhausting. Living a lie, living a

806
01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:31.319
life with liars is really voted for. Not too long ago we have seen

807
01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:36.680
very strong things and even people who, in the face of so much pressure

808
01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:41.960
and tension, have even lost their
lives or become sick because they have to

809
01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:47.000
keep a whole brutal catalogue of lies
that perhaps a lie to sustain themselves.

810
01:16:47.119 --> 01:16:53.239
You need another lie, of course, of course, and then these two

811
01:16:53.319 --> 01:16:57.439
third shelves to hold on. For
that it is really exhausted that exhausting better

812
01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:01.560
true, accompanied by compassion and irony, than lies for mercy. Yeah,

813
01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:06.319
that' s exactly a good definition. Daniel and you see the good ones,

814
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:12.479
of course you say sometimes when we
talk about lies or demagoguery, because

815
01:17:12.520 --> 01:17:17.319
the word of madgia is demagoguery.
It' s a subtle lie. Demagoguery

816
01:17:17.439 --> 01:17:23.840
is a subtle lie and then you
say good you are a demagogue, but

817
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:31.840
it is that politicians in general,
except very rare ex- lessons, practice

818
01:17:31.960 --> 01:17:36.960
demagoguery, that is, lies mixed
with truth. Sometimes they say strong truths

819
01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:45.239
and truths, but sometimes they use
them for partisan or political interest or for

820
01:17:45.319 --> 01:17:54.720
any other hidden interest. They use
lies in a proud way. That is,

821
01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:58.600
in politics, for example, lies
are practiced a lot. Yes,

822
01:17:58.760 --> 01:18:08.920
that' s because the basic goal
of the typical political discourse is to get

823
01:18:09.039 --> 01:18:14.880
the approval or pleasure of people who
are supposed to listen to you what you

824
01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:17.680
need in some way, with their
support, with their approval, with their

825
01:18:18.720 --> 01:18:25.600
approval and with their vote. Finally, then clear this, when we have

826
01:18:25.680 --> 01:18:29.520
the value scale of values that is
so flexible, it is seciftamento is flexible,

827
01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:33.960
what we put is above the first
priority of all is to get the

828
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:41.399
formation of people and the second the
honesty, the sincerity. Sure, that

829
01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:43.840
' s what doesn' t work. Yes, of course, it'

830
01:18:43.920 --> 01:18:45.159
s true that being honest doesn'
t give so many votes. Often,

831
01:18:45.560 --> 01:18:49.960
although I should give them, there
should be more votes, but in this

832
01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:55.800
there are not two votes. Well, suddenly there come some who say truths

833
01:18:55.880 --> 01:18:59.960
that others hide, this is true, and suddenly they surprise the parish and

834
01:19:01.399 --> 01:19:05.520
of course because they saw and they
were, that is, they saw the

835
01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:11.079
ones criticizing the caste. They come
from the new caste that are not called

836
01:19:11.159 --> 01:19:16.479
caste and say truths like fists.
But then they incur them in the same

837
01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:23.600
cycle, in another version, you
know in another clear cycle of lies,

838
01:19:24.680 --> 01:19:30.239
then it is a pattern that is
constantly reproduced from some point on. No,

839
01:19:31.479 --> 01:19:35.800
but well this would be long to
comment, but judging by the way

840
01:19:35.840 --> 01:19:40.439
lies are usually treated in the media
and in general, in our society,

841
01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:46.920
it would be said that lying unless
you are caught is almost harmless. But

842
01:19:47.039 --> 01:19:51.000
I ask you what happens to our
psyche, to our mind when we lie,

843
01:19:53.079 --> 01:19:56.399
because that is very important, because
that is something that is generally ignored.

844
01:19:57.399 --> 01:20:01.279
But lying triggers a July phenomenon,
a psychological phenomenon called cognitive distortion,

845
01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:08.680
which is that it is one of
the psychological phenomena that occur in the person

846
01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:12.560
' s mind, which lies whenever
there is no correspondence between the reality that

847
01:20:12.880 --> 01:20:18.359
the person perceives and the information and
behavior before that reality. When there is

848
01:20:19.319 --> 01:20:24.000
no match that when there is no
coherence. For example, if I affirm

849
01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:28.880
a bank cheque without funds, first
of all, I am transmitting misleading information,

850
01:20:29.359 --> 01:20:31.560
which is to ensure that there are
funds in the bank account. Secondly,

851
01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:35.960
my behavior is not congruent with reality, but with your lie and I

852
01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:41.560
sign the check as if the funds
were available, but they are not and

853
01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:45.199
I know it. That produces in
me what is called cognitive distortion, which

854
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:50.279
translates into a kind of psychological tension. It is like tensing a guitar string

855
01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:57.960
that triggers certain effects, both emotional
and physiological, very destructive. A person

856
01:20:58.039 --> 01:21:02.640
who lies, goes and what are
those effects? Daniel, for when we

857
01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:10.319
spoke, when we spoke we knew
words, our whole body is conspiring with

858
01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:13.880
our message. I mean, we
don' t just speak with our mouth,

859
01:21:14.359 --> 01:21:17.159
it' s all our being that
speaks in the most visible part and

860
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:21.279
the invisible part. But our whole
being agrees with the message. Or try

861
01:21:21.359 --> 01:21:25.520
monkey if you agree and it'
s like you get in the middle of

862
01:21:25.600 --> 01:21:28.880
reality. Our body becomes the middle
of between reality and what we say,

863
01:21:29.119 --> 01:21:33.359
and if there is a contradiction between
the two, our body does not reflect

864
01:21:33.439 --> 01:21:39.199
that contradiction between reality and what we
are saying. It is as if deep

865
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:44.520
down, our body is designed to
live healthyly only in harmony with reality.

866
01:21:45.640 --> 01:21:48.960
That' s what I really believe, because I mean, living under the

867
01:21:48.960 --> 01:21:55.840
truth. We are designed to live
under the truth and our quepo physically reflects

868
01:21:55.960 --> 01:22:00.840
the negative results every time we check
the reality with the fidelity of the information

869
01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:05.439
we transmit near it, that is, we do a kind of continuous check

870
01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:08.680
to see. I' m saying. This is my speech. I'

871
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.039
m saying this, but the reality
that I know what it is. There

872
01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:15.680
is congruence between what I am saying
and this reality. If we could physically

873
01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:19.560
see what happens in our body every
time we transmit the lie, we would

874
01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:24.199
see as a bunch of fists,
to give an example, that beat us

875
01:22:24.239 --> 01:22:28.359
at once in different parts of the
body, causing bruises and injuries. Where

876
01:22:28.520 --> 01:22:35.079
they hit, lying generates on us
an answer that is called stress response OK,

877
01:22:36.319 --> 01:22:44.319
that is, that our body behaves
inevitably by preparing itself as if it

878
01:22:44.439 --> 01:22:47.359
were to face a real threat.
That is the stress response, that is,

879
01:22:47.680 --> 01:22:53.600
when I lie my body perceives a
threat and behaves as if it were

880
01:22:53.680 --> 01:22:58.520
before me it had a real threat
and a major threat. For example,

881
01:22:58.680 --> 01:23:04.199
by lying, my pupils dilate as
if there was little light. It is

882
01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:10.680
very curious that both the Bible and
popular tradition resembling lies to darkness or the

883
01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:15.199
loss of light and truth to the
light. And it' s funny that

884
01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:16.560
when I lie my pupils moisturize as
if there were few in front of me.

885
01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:23.840
It is something very significant that my
body responds to this form. It

886
01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:27.640
increases the pulsations, that is,
our heart starts to beat more quickly,

887
01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:31.039
increases blood pressure and, therefore,
the risk of third good embolisms and the

888
01:23:31.039 --> 01:23:36.000
health of our circulatory system, because
it is not at all good. Increases

889
01:23:36.159 --> 01:23:43.039
the respiratory rhythm appears sweat changes in
the electrical conductivity of the skin. Hence,

890
01:23:43.760 --> 01:23:45.800
the famous lie detector is used.
It is one of the things that

891
01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:50.880
are used, that is, electricity. The ability of our skin to drive

892
01:23:50.920 --> 01:23:56.439
electricity varies when we lie our endocrine
system, that is, the glands,

893
01:23:57.000 --> 01:24:00.560
activate and release substances. The torrents
us online to activate our body, as

894
01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:05.960
if we were going to do an
intense exercise. Our muscles increase your level

895
01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:11.359
of tension, especially in the agricultural
areas. In the lumbar area of the

896
01:24:11.439 --> 01:24:15.000
spine. Hence the popular expression that
people lie to lies and problems behind their

897
01:24:15.039 --> 01:24:21.880
backs is more solitative than we think. We emit little uncontrollable changes in the

898
01:24:21.920 --> 01:24:27.600
tone of voice and in the inflections
of the voice and the escapees of others

899
01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:30.199
sound more insecure, even if others
do not know well to explain why,

900
01:24:30.319 --> 01:24:36.880
but it sounds insecure what someone who
lies tells us and also shakes our extremities

901
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:44.840
and drys our mouths. Then this
increased activation of metabolism results in increased hostility

902
01:24:44.920 --> 01:24:50.000
and aggressiveness. That is, we
become more aggressive when we know that we

903
01:24:50.039 --> 01:24:56.079
are lying and more hostile, and
a decrease in our immune capabilities too,

904
01:24:56.359 --> 01:25:00.079
that is, our defenses diminish,
which makes us much more vulnerable to any

905
01:25:00.119 --> 01:25:08.199
disease. That means living a life
surrounded by lies really puts me at a

906
01:25:08.560 --> 01:25:13.239
brutal risk July, as you can
see. Yes now this is in general

907
01:25:13.720 --> 01:25:18.760
in most mortals. But there are
those who manage to deceive the polygraph and

908
01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:26.760
the lie detector, because there are
some pathological liars who lie with such serenity

909
01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:30.039
that they are true actors. Cases, they' re very punctual cases.

910
01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:31.359
This is not the truth. Right. That' s right, right.

911
01:25:31.439 --> 01:25:36.279
It is true that with proper training, if you can call it that and

912
01:25:36.279 --> 01:25:42.960
appropriate, you would be able to
make fun of or get rid of the

913
01:25:43.119 --> 01:25:48.600
lie detector and avoid some of the
inevitable signals when it comes to lying.

914
01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:56.359
But this means that we do not
physically experience the consequences. If there are

915
01:25:56.399 --> 01:25:59.479
things that we can control, we
can count, for example, the tone

916
01:25:59.479 --> 01:26:03.359
of nonsense, two gestures, even
the pulsations, but there are things that

917
01:26:03.359 --> 01:26:09.600
we cannot control. Then those consequences
are real in our visits, in our

918
01:26:09.680 --> 01:26:14.319
body. Yes, yes, because
those of us who spoke before all these

919
01:26:14.359 --> 01:26:24.439
professionals of the word, when when
they lie they are not moved, do

920
01:26:24.439 --> 01:26:30.119
not blink at all. The truth
is true. And then in journalism there

921
01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:35.920
is also a lot of information yellowing. No lie or half truths that are

922
01:26:36.520 --> 01:26:44.880
definitely lies, but then we could
say we lie sick. Of course,

923
01:26:45.439 --> 01:26:49.079
observing the physiological effects of the act
of lying. Of course, it is

924
01:26:49.159 --> 01:26:55.800
easy to realize in July that a
person who lives long under discussion, this

925
01:26:55.880 --> 01:26:59.600
cognitive distortion that we have talked about, which produces the lie, can become

926
01:26:59.680 --> 01:27:04.439
sick. The reason is that this
physiological response of our body is a kind

927
01:27:04.479 --> 01:27:10.800
of metabolic overeffort that amounts to stress
and anxiety, and prolonged stress ends up

928
01:27:10.880 --> 01:27:16.239
affecting the most vulnerable birds of the
person. The worst thing is that it

929
01:27:16.319 --> 01:27:23.920
does it in an unpredictable way,
that is, when a pressure cooker is

930
01:27:23.960 --> 01:27:30.199
exceeding its pressure level and the safety
valve doesn' t work, that expression

931
01:27:30.279 --> 01:27:32.960
of pressure pruned. But we don' t know where, because we don

932
01:27:33.119 --> 01:27:35.399
' t know what the thinnest point
of the pot is. But what is

933
01:27:35.439 --> 01:27:39.880
clear is that it will explode from
the most vulnerable, thinner point of the

934
01:27:40.000 --> 01:27:44.960
oil. If there' s a
micro- render somewhere that' s not

935
01:27:44.960 --> 01:27:46.680
always seen, it' ll blow
around, because it' s the most

936
01:27:46.680 --> 01:27:50.520
vulnerable point. All people have our
body, our metabolism, or points of

937
01:27:50.720 --> 01:27:58.399
greater vulnerability just say even phenitistists that
we already come, let' s say

938
01:27:58.479 --> 01:28:01.800
predetermined, if we can say so
genetically, as to the most violated points

939
01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:04.960
in our body. And this means, then, that if I am in

940
01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:10.960
a permanent stress that causes me to
live in a life keeping the lies,

941
01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:18.920
in the end, this will increase
the pressure on my body and reflect it

942
01:28:19.039 --> 01:28:24.479
by the point of greatest vulnerability.
If I have three digestive problems at my

943
01:28:24.479 --> 01:28:29.840
disposal, then I will have them
if I have other circulatory- type problems,

944
01:28:30.159 --> 01:28:34.359
because I will reflect it that way, in all respects, a final

945
01:28:34.359 --> 01:28:38.439
resolution July. In that sense,
I would like to be valid by way

946
01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:42.840
of conclusion. But although we often
lie only because we are afraid, because

947
01:28:42.960 --> 01:28:46.640
fear is the main driving force behind
lies, to minimize fear, discomfort that

948
01:28:46.720 --> 01:28:51.840
can cause us to tell the truth. If we take a realistic and honest

949
01:28:51.920 --> 01:28:56.960
balance of advantages and disadvantages of lying, we will realize that it is healthier

950
01:28:57.039 --> 01:29:00.920
to tell the truth than to lie
the truth. It may hurt that,

951
01:29:01.119 --> 01:29:05.479
yes, but it usually makes us
sick, that is, no one sick

952
01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:11.800
of nagra. Yeah, what happens
is pain sometimes, but make him sick

953
01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:15.760
because of the truth. Instead,
the lie initially does not seem to produce

954
01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:18.800
right short- term pain. We
lie to avoid pain, discomfort, but

955
01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:25.319
it does make our body, our
mind, and our relationships sick. It

956
01:29:25.439 --> 01:29:28.720
' s just the other way around
that truth. Many of those who already

957
01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:34.840
know us already know July that one
of the biblical texts preferred at least by

958
01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:39.880
me and I know that also by
you you will know the truth and the

959
01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:44.399
truth was free, free that,
especially from this group. The sinister personal

960
01:29:44.439 --> 01:29:51.079
and relational illnesses that give them lies
in our lives really. Knowing the truth

961
01:29:53.039 --> 01:30:00.439
in what happens to us in our
life produces freedom, knowing the truth the

962
01:30:00.520 --> 01:30:06.359
meaning of our productive life and trying
good. What a suggestive subject the truth

963
01:30:06.760 --> 01:30:11.720
is this morning. What happens to
us when we lie about the amount of

964
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:17.279
things Daniel has been explaining to us
and sometimes the negative effects it has on

965
01:30:17.439 --> 01:30:24.880
our own human psyche, but also
on our body and on our social or

966
01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:29.640
interpersonal relationships. Well, there'
s that. We have taken good note

967
01:30:30.279 --> 01:30:34.640
to be people who practice, who
are truthful, who practice truthful relationships,

968
01:30:35.119 --> 01:30:42.520
truth and avoid lying and renounce it
so as not to harm anyone or harm

969
01:30:42.640 --> 01:30:47.880
themselves. Dear Daniel, a hug, dear friend, until always, until

970
01:30:47.960 --> 01:31:13.880
always, the whole train of life
life. Today can be a great day.

971
01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:23.359
Your word said so. I just
believed and reacted Hodia. I decided

972
01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:30.840
to be vague, even though in
my mind my mistakes want me to be

973
01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:38.039
gracious is the battle. I didn' t give up and come and I

974
01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:46.520
feel like the day has come and
this nogal love always sings. I feel

975
01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:59.800
that the day has come that yes
is to sing new songs, servia of

976
01:31:59.800 --> 01:32:08.359
life, pen lebrar y hacer nida, of not having my reasons and to

977
01:32:08.720 --> 01:32:25.359
make to feel that I can love
s dale pebe today can be a great

978
01:32:26.479 --> 01:32:33.239
day, this heart slept, but
you made it resplendent. But today I

979
01:32:33.359 --> 01:32:39.880
' m just looking ahead. I' m going to make him stand aside

980
01:32:40.119 --> 01:32:56.359
for if I take you resurrect that
house merci I feel that he arrived the

981
01:32:56.439 --> 01:33:01.079
díadeslague, the dan de la degrano, the day of anger. You'

982
01:33:02.600 --> 01:33:09.640
d understand if they didn' t
have one. My reason is to be

983
01:33:09.960 --> 01:33:20.680
would be to feel that I can
love good to day to make good decisions,

984
01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:28.520
day to tell us the truth,
day to touch our hearts, day

985
01:33:28.960 --> 01:33:32.159
to know how to forgive us,
day to return to the source to stop

986
01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:44.479
in crumbs. Never day to tempt
fate and distrust your will. And it

987
01:33:44.800 --> 01:33:57.520
' s the day of walking and
singing. It would be useful not to

988
01:33:57.760 --> 01:34:30.880
have my reasons day to say that
good morning, not vintintir was vi fueva

989
01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:35.960
may is a great day. What
are you doing walking down the bike lane

990
01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:39.560
like you don' t have wax. More and more people are encouraged to

991
01:34:39.680 --> 01:34:44.359
ride a bicycle to move around the
city. So, in many places where

992
01:34:44.680 --> 01:34:49.399
there was only sidewalk before, there
is now also bike lane. All drivers,

993
01:34:49.800 --> 01:34:57.119
cyclists, bikers and pedestrians We share
the street in the city if we

994
01:34:57.119 --> 01:35:00.520
respect each other. There' s
room for everyone. Directorate General Traffic,

995
01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:04.039
Ministry of the Interior, Government of
Spain. Don' t ever leave me

996
01:35:04.079 --> 01:35:08.680
alone in the damage or places with
water. Don' t say they emit

997
01:35:08.720 --> 01:35:11.920
luis fingers and linchufi. Don'
t tell me at the age of an

998
01:35:12.279 --> 01:35:17.720
open window I told him tonics or
micamientos, and you let me swallow small

999
01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:23.039
toy specks. If you neglect,
your ojer can be dangerous for your children.

1000
01:35:23.239 --> 01:35:26.760
Don' t worry, avoid accidents, so you want more. Ministry

1001
01:35:26.840 --> 01:35:31.600
of Health and Consumer Affairs Government of
Spain. Juan invests 180 euros a month

1002
01:35:31.640 --> 01:35:38.479
in suffering. Alberto invests 200 euros
in extortion. Carlos invests 150 euros in

1003
01:35:38.560 --> 01:35:43.399
kidnappings. Every time you pay you' re investing in extortion mobs or quitting.

1004
01:35:43.920 --> 01:35:47.039
Help them out don' t invest
in suffering against trafficking in women.

1005
01:35:47.159 --> 01:35:59.720
The Government of Spain is aware of
this. You travel on the train of

1006
01:35:59.800 --> 01:36:19.119
life hello. Friends, it'
s Julio Perez. You know I'

1007
01:36:19.319 --> 01:36:26.279
m the director of the radio show, the weekly Magaxing train of life.

1008
01:36:27.319 --> 01:36:31.359
And it does nothing less than thirty- two years that we travel through many

1009
01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:36.600
human landscapes and many curiosities and things
of life, earthly life and heavenly life.

1010
01:36:39.720 --> 01:36:45.039
I also have the joy of telling
you that I have published my book,

1011
01:36:45.399 --> 01:36:49.239
a book that has to do with
the train of life. There are

1012
01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:59.439
fifty selected articles written by me.
There are six seasons and in each season

1013
01:36:59.479 --> 01:37:04.560
there is a part of eight reflections, temporary reflections for an eternal destiny.

1014
01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:12.479
These are the things I tell in
this book. They are perfections, analysis,

1015
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:20.760
experiences, comments, some curiosity,
also in those fifty reflections, in

1016
01:37:20.920 --> 01:37:25.800
those six stations, until we reach
the term station that there is also a

1017
01:37:25.880 --> 01:37:30.359
section, a very important block.
This book can already be found on Amazon

1018
01:37:30.960 --> 01:37:35.880
on the editorial platform of Amazón.
Traveling on the train of life is called

1019
01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:42.039
the book. It' s the
title of the book Traveling on the Train

1020
01:37:42.039 --> 01:37:46.720
of Life. Julio Pérez, a
server is the author. Then there you

1021
01:37:47.319 --> 01:37:54.199
can well know that the train tells
us about journeys through life. Life is

1022
01:37:54.359 --> 01:37:59.159
a kind of living parable, like
a running train, that there is so

1023
01:37:59.279 --> 01:38:04.079
much feeling and so many experiences inside
the train and what we are seeing inside

1024
01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:10.720
and what we see from the train
out. Well, that' s where

1025
01:38:10.840 --> 01:38:12.840
I suggest you get access to this
book, look at this book. I

1026
01:38:12.920 --> 01:38:14.720
' ve done it with a lot
of love. I think there are things

1027
01:38:14.800 --> 01:38:18.600
that are very dear, very very
intimate, and others not so intimate,

1028
01:38:18.880 --> 01:38:24.760
are very open, but it is
a book that I have done from the

1029
01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:30.159
heart and with the heart traveling on
the train of life. It is the

1030
01:38:30.359 --> 01:38:35.079
title of a Julio Pérez server on
Amazon' s editorial platform. You can

1031
01:38:35.199 --> 01:38:41.720
find him. The book has a
cost of fifteen euros in about 180 pages

1032
01:38:41.800 --> 01:38:48.239
and everything collected from that book is
invested, reinvested in the radio project of

1033
01:38:48.399 --> 01:38:54.239
Onda Paz or Napau and in the
train of life. Of course it is

1034
01:38:54.319 --> 01:39:00.159
part of the project so that this
is put on and kept going as long

1035
01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:02.600
as it never stops So, I
remind you and I thank you in advance

1036
01:39:02.720 --> 01:39:10.199
for buying my book on Amazon'
s platform. Traveling on the train of

1037
01:39:10.199 --> 01:39:29.960
the life of a servant Julio Pérez, Thank you always, the train of

1038
01:39:30.039 --> 01:39:35.880
life, an exciting journey along the
routes of the heart, an unforgettable trip

1039
01:39:36.640 --> 01:40:12.840
to Ritmo de trem Sé de Segovia, Journalist, theologian and Protestant pastor in

1040
01:40:12.840 --> 01:40:19.560
the city of Madrid, José this
new birth, when we talk about the

1041
01:40:19.640 --> 01:40:24.960
new birth, is an idea.
Perhaps if we turn to a society like

1042
01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:33.560
Anglo- Saxon or Central European or
Protestant countries, the concept, regardless of

1043
01:40:33.680 --> 01:40:38.760
whether it is assumed as such or
not, is understandable when we speak.

1044
01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:44.119
But when we speak in a more
Catholic, more agnostic, more disbelief-

1045
01:40:44.439 --> 01:40:49.199
like culture of ours, especially of
Europe and particularly of southern Europe. This

1046
01:40:49.279 --> 01:40:55.920
new birth sounds to Chinese truth,
yes, indeed, really while they are

1047
01:40:55.960 --> 01:40:59.760
being pressured in the countries, especially
in the United States, of the born

1048
01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:04.520
Christian, as it translates in so
many times here in Spain, highlighting the

1049
01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:11.640
term rebirth, is undoubtedly known because
there has been a good number of even

1050
01:41:11.800 --> 01:41:15.680
presidents of the country who have so
confessed it to the population. Here,

1051
01:41:15.720 --> 01:41:18.600
however, in Europe and America,
well it is estimated almost twenty- five

1052
01:41:18.640 --> 01:41:23.920
percent of the population. More like
what you believe in an idea of reincarnation.

1053
01:41:24.199 --> 01:41:28.399
If if you had to believe something
up to twenty percent of the Spaniards

1054
01:41:28.520 --> 01:41:32.680
sometimes comes out in some polls or
statistics you seem to believe this that there

1055
01:41:32.720 --> 01:41:36.560
are many ways to understand reincarnation,
as you very well said, an Eastern

1056
01:41:36.720 --> 01:41:42.600
idea, originally in unscathed, because
you believe the rebirth of each soul individually,

1057
01:41:43.399 --> 01:41:45.880
but Buddhism, for example, which
is without a doubt an even more

1058
01:41:45.920 --> 01:41:51.520
popular religion or in which that soul
exists. So you also have to distinguish

1059
01:41:51.560 --> 01:41:55.760
many times what people call reincarnation,
which is very different also from one person

1060
01:41:55.800 --> 01:41:59.880
to another and which generally, as
you have very well explained the with a

1061
01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:03.920
text, esoteric accident. Finally,
one thing or another is neither Hindu nor

1062
01:42:04.079 --> 01:42:09.640
Buddhist. It is our own idea
of reincarnation, which many effectively confuse with

1063
01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:15.119
the new birth. Sure, then, to explain to us and about this

1064
01:42:15.199 --> 01:42:19.439
you have written some very interesting books
and explained the idea, you have developed

1065
01:42:19.560 --> 01:42:25.600
it the idea on the subject of
reincarnation, that exactly that idea of reincarnation

1066
01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:30.199
you could explain to us a little
bit. What is it, because you

1067
01:42:30.319 --> 01:42:33.119
have to have more faith to believe
reincarnation than to believe in the new birth,

1068
01:42:34.079 --> 01:42:39.199
right exactly. In fact, reincarnation
seeks to respond to the well-

1069
01:42:39.439 --> 01:42:43.479
known problem of all religion, which
is evil. How to explain it and

1070
01:42:43.680 --> 01:42:47.119
look for reality that old dream,
on the one hand, of the second

1071
01:42:47.279 --> 01:42:50.640
chance to be able to correct past
mistakes. But over and over again we

1072
01:42:50.720 --> 01:42:56.640
come across the clear idea that the
victim really becomes responsible for his evil,

1073
01:42:56.840 --> 01:43:01.960
that is, the law of cause
and effect, which is karma. Behind

1074
01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:08.560
all these Eastern religions. What he
does, let' s say, is

1075
01:43:08.760 --> 01:43:10.199
that what you suffer is because of
the evil you' ve done. Whereas

1076
01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:14.520
Jesus, for example, when faced
with this blind man at birth and asked

1077
01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:17.880
him who sinned who did wrong,
whether it was this one or his parents,

1078
01:43:18.680 --> 01:43:24.760
says with a whole categorical statement that
neither this one nor his parents,

1079
01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:29.359
so let us say the vision that
he offers us. Reincarnation is not a

1080
01:43:29.439 --> 01:43:32.439
bad solution to evil. What it
does is to blame the individual for his

1081
01:43:32.479 --> 01:43:35.880
own evil, which is otherwise unclear, and then to fall under the weight

1082
01:43:35.960 --> 01:43:45.880
of guilt without any apparent solution.
In principle, Joseph, what is the

1083
01:43:45.960 --> 01:43:51.800
difference between being reincarnated and being born
again what is the great conceptual difference,

1084
01:43:55.079 --> 01:43:57.880
for although there are differences, as
we have said, in the idea of

1085
01:43:57.960 --> 01:44:00.920
reincarnation that appears in Hinduism and Buddhism. In one is a soul, that

1086
01:44:00.960 --> 01:44:05.039
is, a being that reincarnates and
in another does not exist. Let us

1087
01:44:05.159 --> 01:44:12.159
say an individual being who reincarnates,
which is the case with Buddhism, but

1088
01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:15.479
in both cases we talk about the
survival of the soul. And this is

1089
01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:18.439
what some, by mistake, say
even in some esoteric books, that Christianity

1090
01:44:18.479 --> 01:44:25.439
used to teach, because they clearly
confuse an idea that some ancient parents of

1091
01:44:25.560 --> 01:44:31.920
the Church appear of a certain presence
of the soul with the idea of reincarnation.

1092
01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:35.279
Above all, it' s origin. He is a well- known

1093
01:44:35.560 --> 01:44:41.720
teacher for his false teaching, indeed
he was condemned to the history of the

1094
01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:45.600
Church, who had much to refer
to this, but he denies reincarnation itself,

1095
01:44:45.680 --> 01:44:48.840
that is, for example, three
hundred years already before the famous council,

1096
01:44:49.600 --> 01:44:54.720
in which it is claimed that this
doctrine of the Church is discarded,

1097
01:44:56.439 --> 01:45:00.560
He also distinguishes his idea from reincarnation. So much so, all these arguments

1098
01:45:00.600 --> 01:45:09.800
that appear to be Jesus' classical
spiritist title saying that before he opened he

1099
01:45:09.920 --> 01:45:15.199
was comparing Lyas with John the Baptist. All these common places that pretend to

1100
01:45:15.479 --> 01:45:21.760
see signs in the Gospel of an
idea of reincarnation, are totally off-

1101
01:45:21.760 --> 01:45:29.000
track. Scripture and the Gospel clearly
do not teach reincarnation much less. The

1102
01:45:29.079 --> 01:45:34.800
classic spiritism lay in the fact that
the Old Testament did indeed have a prohibition

1103
01:45:34.960 --> 01:45:40.600
of contact with the dead and of
all this relationship with the spiritual world,

1104
01:45:40.680 --> 01:45:45.960
but that in the New Testament we
entered another time in which supposedly no longer

1105
01:45:46.119 --> 01:45:50.840
existed that prohibition, but a new
phase began which, then with the appearance

1106
01:45:50.920 --> 01:45:57.439
of the 19th century occultism, would
already be the epoch of enlightenment in which

1107
01:45:57.800 --> 01:46:01.880
we came into contact with this spiritual
world to which the referents are sought in

1108
01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:08.119
many ways. Sometimes through hypnosis,
it was intended to find the testimony of

1109
01:46:08.199 --> 01:46:12.600
past lives in which one would have
been incarnated in one creature or another.

1110
01:46:14.279 --> 01:46:18.600
But generally from the theosophy of DIECINUIX, what we find is like the idea

1111
01:46:18.680 --> 01:46:24.399
of an ascent by reincarnation, which
is totally contrary to the Eastern religion environmental

1112
01:46:24.439 --> 01:46:29.840
regions. It is bad good,
many times a descent becomes a creature that

1113
01:46:30.439 --> 01:46:32.760
is often not considered superior, but
can be an insect, any kind of

1114
01:46:32.760 --> 01:46:39.600
living being that is far from ideal. I imagine that of most people,

1115
01:46:39.920 --> 01:46:42.800
and reincarnation, I suppose you will
not dream of becoming a fly or an

1116
01:46:42.880 --> 01:46:47.319
ant. But it is really what
Eastern religion teaches, not that one will

1117
01:46:47.359 --> 01:46:54.199
become a higher being, ever higher
and spiritually. This is a theosophical idea.

1118
01:46:54.279 --> 01:46:58.319
It is not an idea of the
Eastern religions that see that, according

1119
01:46:58.800 --> 01:47:02.159
to that law of karma and effects, one can become a creature that may

1120
01:47:02.239 --> 01:47:06.560
seem superior or inferior, but always
paying for the evil that he has not

1121
01:47:06.560 --> 01:47:11.039
done. Finally, we are in
the same blind circle over and over again

1122
01:47:11.119 --> 01:47:15.840
of cause and effect for which you
do that, that you pay for that

1123
01:47:15.840 --> 01:47:18.760
you always get that. This is
the law of reincarnation. Sure and then

1124
01:47:18.840 --> 01:47:25.960
closer. We have among so many
writings the famous when we read in those

1125
01:47:26.039 --> 01:47:30.840
times the metamorphosis of francasca as to
trivialize the idea and not to watch it

1126
01:47:30.880 --> 01:47:36.279
in a good way, that are
popular ways of inoculating this concept in the

1127
01:47:36.279 --> 01:47:41.279
social consciousness. True, if I
was in Prague this summer, I was

1128
01:47:41.279 --> 01:47:45.560
struck by a t- shirt that
they wore on the street, which they

1129
01:47:45.960 --> 01:47:51.359
sold right there, in the Czech
city, and I had the picture that

1130
01:47:51.359 --> 01:47:57.199
is usually put out of evolution,
as it evolves from more or less simiesque

1131
01:47:57.239 --> 01:48:00.159
beings, not even the human being. And finally, Kafka' s bug

1132
01:48:00.199 --> 01:48:04.399
is already clear. No and then
it was a clear irony of human evolution

1133
01:48:04.920 --> 01:48:10.439
from where it would have ended up
evolved that, indeed, seen from that

1134
01:48:10.560 --> 01:48:13.680
perspective is a great satire. Of
course if it was really this, what

1135
01:48:13.760 --> 01:48:19.560
Kafka would have in mind, of
course, shows you a rather depressing evolution,

1136
01:48:20.039 --> 01:48:26.960
a simple cockroach. In the end, yes, well, there is

1137
01:48:27.039 --> 01:48:30.600
the paradigm, at least of the
idea that is revealed to us in the

1138
01:48:31.439 --> 01:48:34.520
New Testament about the new birth.
It is Jesus himself, who says that

1139
01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:40.359
a man of the Pharisees who was
called Nicodemus, who was chief among the

1140
01:48:40.439 --> 01:48:44.439
Jews, came to Jesus by night
and good spoke and told Rabbi Master.

1141
01:48:45.079 --> 01:48:48.239
We know that you have come from
God as such, because no one can

1142
01:48:48.319 --> 01:48:51.159
do in the signs that you do
unless God is with him. And Jesus

1143
01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:55.119
answered him and said to him truthfully, Verily I say unto thee, that

1144
01:48:55.319 --> 01:48:59.079
he that is not born again cannot
see the Kingdom of God, and this

1145
01:48:59.119 --> 01:49:04.279
statement of Jesus is novel, surprising, and very important in this dialogue between

1146
01:49:04.279 --> 01:49:09.279
Jesus and Nicodemus. There' s
the kid of the truth question. Yes,

1147
01:49:09.359 --> 01:49:12.399
indeed, because the term Kingdom of
God is key, clear in all

1148
01:49:12.479 --> 01:49:15.960
scripture, in its entirety, is
the search for that moral perfection in this

1149
01:49:16.039 --> 01:49:20.800
life that cannot be attained and that
the butpió nicodemos being religious, for he

1150
01:49:20.960 --> 01:49:25.720
sees that frustration and then Jesus'
response, of course, cannot be more

1151
01:49:25.800 --> 01:49:30.760
surprising. Now as then, God' s spirit can do what man cannot

1152
01:49:30.800 --> 01:49:36.079
do. In other words, we
cannot reform ourselves to the point of being

1153
01:49:36.119 --> 01:49:41.840
able to fulfill that divine kingdom in
our lives. But God’ s spirit

1154
01:49:42.000 --> 01:49:45.439
can change us, it can transform
us in that sense. Of course it

1155
01:49:45.600 --> 01:49:51.920
is the great Gospel statement of how
we can expect everything from God, even

1156
01:49:53.000 --> 01:49:57.199
if we do not expect anything from
ourselves, because it is certainly what we

1157
01:49:57.199 --> 01:50:00.640
should think correctly. In light of
the words of Lord Jesus, of course,

1158
01:50:00.760 --> 01:50:06.359
being born again has implications, because
it is to experience then the apostle

1159
01:50:06.439 --> 01:50:14.560
Paul, Paul' s theology,
in different mentions that the apostle Paul,

1160
01:50:14.800 --> 01:50:19.479
when he says if anyone is in
Christ new creature is the old old things

1161
01:50:19.560 --> 01:50:26.079
passed and now all are made new
and other statements that do not remember that

1162
01:50:26.079 --> 01:50:31.560
a person has experienced that catharsis,
that change, that that that new inner

1163
01:50:31.560 --> 01:50:36.640
birth, It is that kind of
spiritual change and that affects his whole being,

1164
01:50:36.760 --> 01:50:44.159
his whole life. But of course, something has to be produced in

1165
01:50:44.159 --> 01:50:47.720
that, in that crisis of new
birth, as I know how you can

1166
01:50:47.800 --> 01:50:50.439
get to do again that what you
have to do, you have to do

1167
01:50:50.439 --> 01:50:54.159
something, you have to go somewhere, you have to look for a magic

1168
01:50:54.159 --> 01:50:58.960
formula. Jesus' words, though
enigmatic, exactly for many, in John

1169
01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:03.920
' s chapter three Gospel show us
how the effects are more evident than their

1170
01:51:04.720 --> 01:51:08.359
cause and origin. And it compares
it to the wind. Of course,

1171
01:51:08.800 --> 01:51:14.079
we look from the window and see
the rocked trees, moved many times with

1172
01:51:14.079 --> 01:51:16.520
the storm, but we do not
contemplate the wind. What we see are

1173
01:51:16.760 --> 01:51:20.960
the effects the cause. Thus,
Jesus, of course, compares the work

1174
01:51:21.119 --> 01:51:27.000
of the spirit with the wind itself, using the Hebrew term par excellence of

1175
01:51:27.119 --> 01:51:33.760
the spirit of Ruag to show how
we see more clearly the fruits, the

1176
01:51:33.880 --> 01:51:38.920
unnamed birth evidence that we can explain
their origin. There is like a mystery

1177
01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:44.079
that makes Christianity supernatural by artonomasia or
really Christianity, or that is natural or

1178
01:51:44.079 --> 01:51:47.039
not Christianity, because it clearly explains
to Jesus that the work of the spirit

1179
01:51:47.199 --> 01:51:57.359
has no other explanation. And in
that sense, the incomprehension of religious men

1180
01:51:57.439 --> 01:52:02.640
as a nicodemo sadly repeats itself throughout
history. Many people have a great concept

1181
01:52:02.680 --> 01:52:08.600
of morality, they strive to try
to live better possible, but when it

1182
01:52:08.680 --> 01:52:12.880
comes to the things of the spirit, they do not understand, that is,

1183
01:52:13.039 --> 01:52:18.359
it is a common feature really of
many religious, that total misunderstanding before

1184
01:52:18.439 --> 01:52:20.800
the things of God and Paul.
Indeed, in Corinth, he tells us

1185
01:52:20.800 --> 01:52:24.840
clearly. He who does not know
the spirit, of course, does not

1186
01:52:24.920 --> 01:52:27.199
understand the things of the spirit.
He who does not have the spirit cannot

1187
01:52:27.319 --> 01:52:30.279
discern what the things of God are. And that is the tragedy of religion,

1188
01:52:30.720 --> 01:52:33.920
which is often the last to really
understand what this is all about,

1189
01:52:35.239 --> 01:52:42.600
and finally, in order to experience
that new birth, many people will surely

1190
01:52:43.439 --> 01:52:45.640
be thinking. Some of them listen
like that and say well, more or

1191
01:52:45.640 --> 01:52:53.039
less they form their idea. Others
will understand what we are talking about and

1192
01:52:53.159 --> 01:52:59.159
others will surely wonder and I need
a new start in my life. We

1193
01:52:59.279 --> 01:53:04.760
all have the feeling that a beginning, but in depth I need a change.

1194
01:53:04.800 --> 01:53:12.159
There I feel empty or empty I
feel, I feel bad about myself

1195
01:53:12.239 --> 01:53:16.920
for a long time. I think
it needs an existential doubt, which is

1196
01:53:17.079 --> 01:53:21.039
very deep, and I think that' s the point at which a person

1197
01:53:21.199 --> 01:53:29.920
can stand on the threshold of an
experience of change, of being able to

1198
01:53:29.960 --> 01:53:34.800
experience the new birth. But for
that Jesus also taught us that Jesus said

1199
01:53:34.880 --> 01:53:42.680
that he who believes in me has
eternal life and one thinks that he will

1200
01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:48.279
pay something in return. This is
the key to the entrance to that new

1201
01:53:48.399 --> 01:53:54.720
birth. Perhaps, indeed, the
key is, as it comes later in

1202
01:53:54.840 --> 01:53:59.640
the well- known words of escape
from John Can Three when he explains what

1203
01:53:59.760 --> 01:54:03.800
he means. Indeed, then this
experience, how it is found, how

1204
01:54:03.920 --> 01:54:09.960
it comes to that new birth.
And Jesus explains it without any doubt.

1205
01:54:10.359 --> 01:54:15.600
It is then to nicodemo itself it
is to believe. It is by believing

1206
01:54:15.840 --> 01:54:19.399
that we really have that life,
it is faith that produces, it is

1207
01:54:19.399 --> 01:54:25.000
immense miracle, that it is the
new birth, without a doubt, the

1208
01:54:25.000 --> 01:54:30.520
most extraordinary experience that we can live
in this life. It' s something

1209
01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:34.039
unique and inexplicable and what we have
to believe. He does not clearly say

1210
01:54:34.199 --> 01:54:38.319
Jesus who believes in the son,
in the son of God, that it

1211
01:54:38.439 --> 01:54:43.720
is the confession that Jesus makes of
himself who is really about faith in Christ,

1212
01:54:44.039 --> 01:54:48.279
to believe in him that brings about
the new birth. And there really,

1213
01:54:49.239 --> 01:54:55.720
to what extent clear is faith that
instrument, in that incomprehensible love of

1214
01:54:55.840 --> 01:54:59.319
God that has loved us in such
a way, that it has sent to

1215
01:54:59.439 --> 01:55:04.359
its child the world that produces that
miracle that is the supper for which,

1216
01:55:05.159 --> 01:55:10.960
believing in Christ, Jesus, we
not only have a hope, a life,

1217
01:55:11.079 --> 01:55:15.079
but we have a new birth.
We know a whole new life,

1218
01:55:15.279 --> 01:55:20.279
the life that comes from above the
sky, a different and different life in

1219
01:55:20.359 --> 01:55:27.199
everything as much in the expedition.
It' s an eternal life. Jesus

1220
01:55:27.239 --> 01:55:30.520
gives no life other than eternal and
if not, also in quality, the

1221
01:55:30.600 --> 01:55:34.720
character of that life is totally different. It is not this life, with

1222
01:55:34.760 --> 01:55:42.119
its prolonged frustrations in a continuous way, but it is a different life,

1223
01:55:42.439 --> 01:55:45.640
it is a different life, it
is a better life And that is where

1224
01:55:45.720 --> 01:55:53.119
the Christian experience becomes no longer attractive, but totally captivating, That is,

1225
01:55:53.239 --> 01:55:57.760
because it is truly the life one
seeks, the one that finds in no

1226
01:55:57.880 --> 01:56:00.560
other way that Jesus speaks to us
or or or we are going to have

1227
01:56:00.079 --> 01:56:04.439
believing in him through his spirit,
the spirit of God. I believe that

1228
01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:12.479
this is a totally decisive explanation,
as I do not know in the words

1229
01:56:12.720 --> 01:56:18.399
of José de Segovia. Joseph already, at the end of this interview,

1230
01:56:21.359 --> 01:56:28.000
remembered books such as Charles Colson'
s. Charles Colson, that man who

1231
01:56:28.119 --> 01:56:33.199
wrote after being involved in the Watergate
case and was one of the architects when

1232
01:56:34.319 --> 01:56:40.359
in prison he experienced what he called
the new birth and wrote the book in

1233
01:56:40.439 --> 01:56:45.920
I was born again exactly title the
wonderful book, of which Cols is being

1234
01:56:45.319 --> 01:56:50.199
remembered right now even though he is
no longer with us, did not seem

1235
01:56:50.319 --> 01:56:55.880
anymore with his master. He,
however, had a tremendous experience in prison

1236
01:56:55.920 --> 01:56:59.520
the present root of the work of
cse Lewis, The Sir Twist. He

1237
01:56:59.600 --> 01:57:03.119
read his famous introductory book Christianity.
I was in jail because of the Watergate

1238
01:57:03.199 --> 01:57:10.039
scandal. He was perhaps one of
the main architects of Nixon' s strategy

1239
01:57:10.119 --> 01:57:15.960
of listening to the opposition party and
was, without a doubt, also the

1240
01:57:16.039 --> 01:57:23.279
one who suffered one of the biggest
penalties in the Watercate case, and this

1241
01:57:23.359 --> 01:57:30.600
changed his life in such a way
that he then created an entire prison CELLOSIP

1242
01:57:30.680 --> 01:57:34.479
community dedicated to the care of people
in prisons. He really dedicated his whole

1243
01:57:34.640 --> 01:57:40.600
life to that experience that had had
him at birth, could know others also

1244
01:57:40.640 --> 01:57:45.600
who are in prison and who felt
from that moment on such an identification with

1245
01:57:45.720 --> 01:57:54.159
them. Of course later, the
same having been imprisoned that his whole life

1246
01:57:54.359 --> 01:57:57.760
was let' s say a reminder
of those in prison. As Jesus himself

1247
01:57:57.920 --> 01:58:03.159
told us to remember them so well
as to be a result of enoonment that

1248
01:58:03.239 --> 01:58:08.039
it was a witness in his book. Yes, an interesting mention that follows

1249
01:58:08.159 --> 01:58:12.640
from that, not only his own
experience with that published book, of his

1250
01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:19.520
experience of change, of conversion to
Christ, experiencing that inner crisis, of

1251
01:58:19.520 --> 01:58:25.720
change, recognizing his personal sin and
recognizing God' s favor and love for

1252
01:58:25.800 --> 01:58:30.039
him and discovering through the reading of
Louis and then the word of the new

1253
01:58:30.159 --> 01:58:35.720
Testament, recognizing his need for Christ, but then also opening up that ministry

1254
01:58:35.840 --> 01:58:42.439
in the prisons that has been so
fruitful. And so I was listening the

1255
01:58:42.520 --> 01:58:45.560
other day Julio García Cellorio, who
is the coordinator of this ministry in Spain,

1256
01:58:46.159 --> 01:58:51.680
that of the entire population resource,
there are thousands of pastoral agents and

1257
01:58:53.000 --> 01:58:59.119
hundreds of people who know Christ.
In that situation of extreme difficulty that is

1258
01:58:59.199 --> 01:59:01.600
book deprivation, truth and notice how
one thing leads the other. Right.

1259
01:59:02.640 --> 01:59:06.800
Yes, the most evident, visible, patent, not very manifest fruits of

1260
01:59:06.880 --> 01:59:15.479
this incomprehensible experience that book tells us
about and that you are experiencing so much

1261
01:59:15.560 --> 01:59:19.600
in prison. It is perhaps little
known to many people, the number of

1262
01:59:19.640 --> 01:59:24.319
people who come to faith in prison, even in the case of the United

1263
01:59:24.399 --> 01:59:28.319
States, where the Colson Ministry was
born people who are waiting for capital punishment.

1264
01:59:28.840 --> 01:59:32.840
In some of the States where the
death penalty still exists, there are

1265
01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:38.960
a very high number of those who
are executed who bear witness to a conversion

1266
01:59:39.079 --> 01:59:45.520
experience at the end of their lives
before being executed, you really see how

1267
01:59:45.600 --> 01:59:53.159
the person who often finds himself in
such a radical need as that, not

1268
01:59:53.600 --> 01:59:59.800
as the one who is deprived of
freedom, really becomes aware of his need

1269
02:00:00.079 --> 02:00:01.479
and, in this case, of
his spiritual death, because the then birth.

1270
02:00:02.039 --> 02:00:05.119
In short, as Paul says,
they write to the Ephesians. Of

1271
02:00:05.239 --> 02:00:10.800
course what it presupposes is that we
are dead, spiritually dead, not weak,

1272
02:00:11.279 --> 02:00:15.680
sick, needy, not dead,
because it is a life that comes

1273
02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:20.079
from where there is no equal,
that has created the spirit, the life

1274
02:00:20.199 --> 02:00:24.039
and the world from what was not. God, too, by his spirit,

1275
02:00:24.920 --> 02:00:27.800
produces a spiritual life that was not
there. It is not a spark

1276
02:00:27.920 --> 02:00:31.760
that simply increases and makes it the
strongest flame. It is not that it

1277
02:00:31.880 --> 02:00:35.000
puts life where there is not,
that is, where there is death,

1278
02:00:35.239 --> 02:00:40.079
indifference, coldness and who has not
experienced that in life, truth, that

1279
02:00:40.079 --> 02:00:45.159
coldness, that indifference, listening to
these things from God and sounding to him

1280
02:00:45.279 --> 02:00:47.399
like foreign battles of ancient peoples,
that is to say that they do not

1281
02:00:47.399 --> 02:00:55.039
tell him anything, that is,
the spiritual indifference that we can feel is

1282
02:00:55.359 --> 02:00:59.399
in that deep evil of that tragedy
that only that miracle. That new work

1283
02:00:59.560 --> 02:01:02.359
of the spirit seems to suddenly one
to understand suddenly realizes that it speaks of

1284
02:01:02.439 --> 02:01:05.880
you this, that it is your
own need, that you are lost.

1285
02:01:06.119 --> 02:01:14.520
In short, and then they are
circumstances in which we arrive incomprehensively at that

1286
02:01:15.159 --> 02:01:18.399
consciousness that changes our whole life.
That' s interesting. What an interesting

1287
02:01:18.399 --> 02:01:28.039
reflection, because I think, friends, that with this public reflection of reincarnation

1288
02:01:28.159 --> 02:01:31.520
or new birth, I think the
difference between one thing and another, the

1289
02:01:31.640 --> 02:01:34.880
importance of the new birth, has
become more than clear. How can we

1290
02:01:34.960 --> 02:01:42.560
come to be born again and resurrect
from that spiritual death we suffer and how

1291
02:01:42.680 --> 02:01:47.039
can we resurrect to a new and
good life? I believe that the reflections

1292
02:01:47.159 --> 02:01:53.920
of the journalist José de Es Segoviano
give us a lot of light. Joseph,

1293
02:01:54.119 --> 02:01:58.640
dear, friend, I really appreciate
your appearance again. I' m

1294
02:01:58.720 --> 02:02:00.560
always delighted to stop you for our
train. Thanks for a hug, buddy

1295
02:02:00.880 --> 02:02:46.319
See you all the time. Your
your t is difficult, if sometimes you

1296
02:02:46.560 --> 02:03:00.600
don' t understand me, you
know me is more than my own creek

1297
02:03:00.880 --> 02:03:14.760
than not ugly. I know that
your plan is perfect, make me as

1298
02:03:14.960 --> 02:03:28.880
you dezmente me and believe. Feel
me loose, my faith looses you,

1299
02:03:29.079 --> 02:03:38.760
my der as control of my life. Your plan more than I let you

1300
02:03:38.920 --> 02:03:46.239
go, my places you, loose
my decisions, take control of my life.

1301
02:03:48.439 --> 02:04:01.960
Your plan more difficult than it is, sometimes it doesn' t grow,

1302
02:04:05.119 --> 02:04:14.479
you lead to know more than myself
believe I don' t see.

1303
02:04:15.079 --> 02:04:33.079
I know that you' ve perfected
faith have me montme make me understand and

1304
02:04:35.760 --> 02:04:46.720
that if I let you go my
s was Dominicans I take control of you

1305
02:04:46.920 --> 02:04:55.880
in my life your plans more than
mine I let you star this sun with

1306
02:04:55.880 --> 02:05:05.399
my decisions. Take with hurt my
life your big one more than mine crazy

1307
02:05:05.560 --> 02:05:15.840
with your boss or sand those my
way does not work no. What you

1308
02:05:16.039 --> 02:05:26.920
have to be is I pray with
your mandans abuse that in my own way

1309
02:05:27.119 --> 02:05:39.960
not you be two. What ci
is the memo, what you fill is

1310
02:05:40.159 --> 02:05:48.199
much better. Oh I loose my
dream. I want you to want to

1311
02:05:48.439 --> 02:06:05.039
see the life of emotional pr pains
and lives your plants that pay you more

1312
02:06:05.359 --> 02:06:38.800
radiation such life your plan or saint
and with your Dutch are my or that

1313
02:06:39.079 --> 02:07:16.720
children or that children you travel on
the train of life. Ladies and gentlemen,

1314
02:07:17.159 --> 02:07:21.039
we are already in direct line with
our friend, the shepherdess. He

1315
02:07:21.119 --> 02:07:25.680
' s a Quintara. She is
a pastor in the City of Madrid,

1316
02:07:25.880 --> 02:07:32.640
of the Christian Assembly Church and is
also a woman who takes care of women

1317
02:07:32.720 --> 02:07:40.960
' s issues, who cares about
the issue. She is also the coordinator

1318
02:07:41.079 --> 02:07:46.239
and adviser on women' s issues
of the Evangelical Council of Madrid. She

1319
02:07:46.359 --> 02:07:51.720
is also a philologist and, among
other things, good because right now she

1320
02:07:53.239 --> 02:08:01.399
is the coordinator and promoter and founder
of the Seneca platform for women' s

1321
02:08:01.439 --> 02:08:05.000
equality. And let' s talk
about this a little bit and I'

1322
02:08:05.079 --> 02:08:09.880
ll welcome you. Good morning,
Blue, Good morning, July, how

1323
02:08:09.960 --> 02:08:15.159
well I am very happy to wear
Blue, Well you are always so anxious

1324
02:08:15.279 --> 02:08:20.279
and concerned about the well- being
of women and also about putting women in

1325
02:08:20.600 --> 02:08:26.560
value, in their right perspective from
all walks of life, even within the

1326
02:08:26.680 --> 02:08:33.000
Christian evangelical environment, because women are
also often marginalized, rather ignored, even

1327
02:08:33.039 --> 02:08:39.960
in Christian settings. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Undoubtedly,

1328
02:08:39.199 --> 02:08:43.960
man is sad, but it is
so and I think it is good

1329
02:08:45.039 --> 02:08:50.439
that it comes from a long tradition, from a series of stereotypes or roles

1330
02:08:50.520 --> 02:08:52.439
that also in the Church. In
that sense, I believe that it has

1331
02:08:52.520 --> 02:09:01.479
been negatively influenced by a culture that
is good macho, is that I cannot

1332
02:09:01.560 --> 02:09:05.119
say the word no, and I
believe that that is so deep- rooted

1333
02:09:05.359 --> 02:09:11.840
since man sees me refer to genesis
peco this machoism, this inequality is a

1334
02:09:11.960 --> 02:09:18.880
consequence of those origins of that separation
from man with God is another consequence of

1335
02:09:18.000 --> 02:09:22.479
sin and the church, for yes, according to what epoch he has been

1336
02:09:22.520 --> 02:09:30.720
allowed to pervade by this. And
well, if we have inequalities, it

1337
02:09:31.960 --> 02:09:37.000
becomes invisible and is not given perhaps
the place it should have and the place

1338
02:09:37.039 --> 02:09:41.159
that Jesus gave it. In short, yes, yes, it is and

1339
02:09:41.279 --> 02:09:50.000
definitely is curious, because the scope
in the world Christian movement, women are

1340
02:09:50.159 --> 02:09:56.039
vastly majority, much more than men. Yes, in the churches there are

1341
02:09:56.199 --> 02:10:03.359
those who pioneered this, like Dr
John Gicho who when against all odds and

1342
02:10:03.640 --> 02:10:09.079
against culture, also an oriental culture, also very patriarchal in South Korea,

1343
02:10:09.399 --> 02:10:16.560
for he realized that those who were
really going to push all the projects of

1344
02:10:16.680 --> 02:10:20.600
his community, the community of thousands
of people who were growing amazingly were women,

1345
02:10:22.000 --> 02:10:30.439
and this caused a real conflict.
True indeed, and it is that

1346
02:10:31.039 --> 02:10:35.199
if we did a good study,
I believe that it has been done that

1347
02:10:35.239 --> 02:10:37.600
most congregations, in the majority and
that is, are more women than men,

1348
02:10:37.920 --> 02:10:41.760
although already by statistics in men,
in the world there are more women

1349
02:10:41.840 --> 02:10:46.000
than men, but in the churches
it happens, this phenomenon occurs and it

1350
02:10:46.640 --> 02:10:52.359
must be recognized that women, because
they have been there and they could have

1351
02:10:52.439 --> 02:10:58.119
tremendous potential. I believe if the
pioneering work of evangelization were made more room

1352
02:10:58.119 --> 02:11:01.199
for it, I really think it
would go a little further. No,

1353
02:11:03.439 --> 02:11:09.880
and that makes me read it in
MáximoÁlvarez commented by doing his evangelism studies

1354
02:11:11.079 --> 02:11:16.800
that if that back was given to
the woman, that evangelization would advance in

1355
02:11:16.880 --> 02:11:22.039
a tremendous way. So, well, here we go. Yeah, yeah,

1356
02:11:22.199 --> 02:11:26.079
the truth is. Now we find
very pendular movements in today' s

1357
02:11:26.159 --> 02:11:35.800
society and sometimes it is radical feminism
that is controlled by certain lobis. Yes,

1358
02:11:35.920 --> 02:11:41.279
of course, then, but it' s funny and in this you

1359
02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:46.119
can explain to me a little blue, that the feminist movement led it Christian

1360
02:11:46.119 --> 02:11:50.680
women. Right, right, right, right, look at the whole idea

1361
02:11:50.680 --> 02:11:54.239
with this whole platform. Well,
I' ve been working on this concern

1362
02:11:54.399 --> 02:11:58.600
for many years now, not and
yes, on all of these issues of

1363
02:11:58.600 --> 02:12:03.199
helping women and especially recently on the
issue of gender- based violence. But

1364
02:12:03.640 --> 02:12:11.960
if we go to the 19th century, we find some movements, especially in

1365
02:12:11.960 --> 02:12:18.119
New York, in the United States. In the wake of all the Protestant

1366
02:12:18.279 --> 02:12:26.439
revival that arises from all those who
fled or left Europe to America New England,

1367
02:12:28.079 --> 02:12:35.199
very very movements of faith arise,
a faith rooted strong practice And from

1368
02:12:35.359 --> 02:12:41.159
here in the 19th century, some
movements arise. Women were leading movements like

1369
02:12:41.319 --> 02:12:54.159
abolitionism, leading anti- racist movements, but they realized that, in the

1370
02:12:54.159 --> 02:13:00.239
midst of all this, they had
no rights, to say that the feminist

1371
02:13:00.319 --> 02:13:07.359
movement in the United States quickly consolidated
itself linked to these Protestant reform movements and,

1372
02:13:07.560 --> 02:13:13.039
above all, because Protestant principles promoted
that the reading of the word,

1373
02:13:15.359 --> 02:13:20.439
the individual interpretation of sacred texts,
the access of women to basic levels of

1374
02:13:20.960 --> 02:13:24.920
education, all these are Protestant principles
emanating from the word of the Bible.

1375
02:13:26.640 --> 02:13:31.399
Then what happened. Women are beginning
to form, high schools, women'

1376
02:13:31.520 --> 02:13:37.520
s training schools are beginning to emerge, and they are the ones who are,

1377
02:13:37.600 --> 02:13:41.680
especially women pastors in the streets fighting
for rights, as I said,

1378
02:13:43.359 --> 02:13:50.159
anti- slavery, anti- racist, until they realize that they themselves are

1379
02:13:50.720 --> 02:13:56.560
not being recognized. They are forbidden
to enter many places, meetings, etcetera.

1380
02:13:56.479 --> 02:14:00.199
They' re not given a voice. They' re annulled as far

1381
02:14:00.319 --> 02:14:03.479
as getting married, losing their identity, they didn' t have the right

1382
02:14:03.479 --> 02:14:09.319
to vote. And all this brings
these women together in what is called Bueno,

1383
02:14:09.560 --> 02:14:13.439
in an evangelical chapel, Methodist Protestant, in New York, in a

1384
02:14:13.439 --> 02:14:22.079
village a little village called Seneca Folfs. And here comes the first feminist movement

1385
02:14:22.840 --> 02:14:28.560
in history. Let' s say
officially they make a statement of feelings that

1386
02:14:28.680 --> 02:14:33.399
is called the first written manifestation,
the first manifest written in one thousand eight

1387
02:14:33.399 --> 02:14:35.239
hundred forty- eight. And of
course there are men and women here.

1388
02:14:35.359 --> 02:14:41.359
It was about a hundred people,
thirty- two men and sixty- eight

1389
02:14:41.800 --> 02:14:48.479
women who signed and all based on
Bible texts. God has created man and

1390
02:14:48.520 --> 02:14:52.800
woman in his image and likeness.
The woman has the same rights and we

1391
02:14:52.880 --> 02:14:58.279
offend God that is, that is
all you can look at now with Google

1392
02:14:58.760 --> 02:15:03.239
and see how you were in Bible
principles. Then I wanted to rescue this.

1393
02:15:03.319 --> 02:15:09.920
Julio I wanted to rescue this movement
for the rights of the women you

1394
02:15:09.039 --> 02:15:13.760
see, so much havoc that there
is in terms of education, poverty,

1395
02:15:13.479 --> 02:15:20.039
trafficking, sexual slavery, how women
are in society and sometimes in the church.

1396
02:15:20.880 --> 02:15:24.680
I didn' t want to rescue
this movement because I think it'

1397
02:15:24.680 --> 02:15:28.079
s biblical. I think we have
a God who is not a sexist and

1398
02:15:28.199 --> 02:15:31.079
we have our greatest referent, who
was Jesus in his treatment of women.

1399
02:15:31.560 --> 02:15:37.399
So, indeed, senecafol the 19th
century. There it really is, and

1400
02:15:37.520 --> 02:15:43.199
no one rescues it from us.
These radical, feminist movements that have probably

1401
02:15:43.279 --> 02:15:48.760
done things. Of course I do, but I certainly don' t identify

1402
02:15:50.199 --> 02:15:54.479
with this radicality. And this is
above all that they aggressively oppose the man

1403
02:15:54.520 --> 02:16:00.960
and the woman and senecafal their movement
of men together with women, and hence

1404
02:16:01.000 --> 02:16:05.640
the name will be enraged. I
know you rescue how interesting. Yeah,

1405
02:16:05.800 --> 02:16:09.039
yeah, yeah, yeah, there' s a lot more details already than

1406
02:16:09.399 --> 02:16:13.880
well, we' ll be counting
them little by little, but I think

1407
02:16:13.960 --> 02:16:15.960
we have to rescue him, just
like sometimes I say we' ve been

1408
02:16:15.960 --> 02:16:16.560
robbed of the Iris bow. You
know what I mean. Yes, well,

1409
02:16:18.119 --> 02:16:22.319
those principles are there in the Bible, in the Bible. It is

1410
02:16:22.399 --> 02:16:28.640
the biblical perspective that I want to
rescue and that we do not have fear

1411
02:16:28.640 --> 02:16:31.520
in that sense, because sometimes,
ah of course, we lobis do not

1412
02:16:31.639 --> 02:16:35.319
have, has nothing to do with
it This is a movement of Christian evangelical

1413
02:16:35.319 --> 02:16:43.200
inspiration. That' s why we' ve been demanding the wage gap because

1414
02:16:43.799 --> 02:16:52.840
we' re demanding democratic justice for
women. That is really a scandal,

1415
02:16:52.959 --> 02:16:58.559
not a song, a scandal of
unjustifiable inferiority from all points of view.

1416
02:17:01.280 --> 02:17:07.239
That would be and many more things, But it is curious that the feminist

1417
02:17:07.399 --> 02:17:13.239
movement leads it, it is driven
by Protestant Christian women in the world and,

1418
02:17:15.479 --> 02:17:18.200
in addition, they are advocates of
life, that is, they are

1419
02:17:18.200 --> 02:17:22.600
not abortionists. It also means this
curious and now it' s the other

1420
02:17:22.600 --> 02:17:26.479
way around. I mean, now
you' re a peck. If you

1421
02:17:26.920 --> 02:17:31.360
say you want to defend life,
you' re a clearing, an anachronistic

1422
02:17:31.799 --> 02:17:35.239
or an ultra petulant. I do
not know what if, man, we,

1423
02:17:37.600 --> 02:17:43.559
as obviously, if we say that
we are of Christian, evangelical inspiration

1424
02:17:43.120 --> 02:17:48.879
and that in emanating from the word
of God, equality and all this in

1425
02:17:48.040 --> 02:17:52.600
saying is by identifying ourselves with the
biblical perspective, we are forbidden. That

1426
02:17:52.719 --> 02:18:01.399
is to say, I firmly believe
not that the human being already begins in

1427
02:18:01.520 --> 02:18:05.680
the same conception. There is already
a human life to be taken care of.

1428
02:18:05.879 --> 02:18:11.079
Not now it' s the same
way in our manifesto. There is

1429
02:18:11.200 --> 02:18:16.559
one point, because we have a
manifesto that is good, we will publish

1430
02:18:16.559 --> 02:18:22.479
it, no, but we must
protect motherhood more. We' re forbidden.

1431
02:18:22.239 --> 02:18:28.559
But motherhood, in what sense to
give more facilities to women, to

1432
02:18:28.639 --> 02:18:33.840
help the co- responsibility of men
and women. The man has as much

1433
02:18:33.920 --> 02:18:37.440
value as the woman. The woman
as much as the man. With regard

1434
02:18:37.479 --> 02:18:43.399
to paternity, which is very important, also family reconciliation, that is to

1435
02:18:43.479 --> 02:18:46.840
say, we have to strengthen it. I think we need to work together

1436
02:18:46.920 --> 02:18:54.520
so that the laws can empower this
motherhood, help protect it and reconcile it

1437
02:18:54.520 --> 02:18:58.360
with the family. There are times
when with today' s life, which

1438
02:18:58.440 --> 02:19:01.600
I see it, a woman works
at the end of the month, and

1439
02:19:03.079 --> 02:19:07.840
where it really is to give the
place, to motherhood, to the family,

1440
02:19:07.319 --> 02:19:11.879
to the children, to say that
from the beginning we also want to

1441
02:19:11.319 --> 02:19:18.000
promote life, protection and motherhood,
help and family reconciliation. So there we

1442
02:19:18.079 --> 02:19:22.799
are, of course, with it. Sure. Sure, of course,

1443
02:19:22.920 --> 02:19:28.520
we care about the well- being
of women, really, and there'

1444
02:19:28.600 --> 02:19:31.799
s a lot of field. It
is curious that many parts of the world

1445
02:19:31.600 --> 02:19:39.280
are unaware of this movement of women, of the feminist movement, of Christian

1446
02:19:39.399 --> 02:19:41.360
inspiration, which defends the rights of
women, as you are doing here in

1447
02:19:41.479 --> 02:19:48.000
Spain, and you are the driving
force behind this project, to which many

1448
02:19:48.719 --> 02:19:52.040
of us have supported because we believe
in this absolutely. A lot of people

1449
02:19:52.040 --> 02:19:54.360
don' t know about this.
In the world there is a very relevant

1450
02:19:54.760 --> 02:20:03.280
movement of feminism not manipulated by the
progressive left, this one that olovi GTBI.

1451
02:20:03.000 --> 02:20:05.879
And all that is clear if we
go from the obis, the lobis,

1452
02:20:07.360 --> 02:20:13.600
because here things are naturalized. Not
really, yes, I think we

1453
02:20:13.639 --> 02:20:16.680
' ll see, I think all
this has been taken away. The movement,

1454
02:20:16.799 --> 02:20:22.079
this radical is reaching some extremes,
and almost sometimes, because they border

1455
02:20:22.280 --> 02:20:31.959
on I don' t know.
If it seems ridiculous and so exaggerated that

1456
02:20:31.959 --> 02:20:35.479
good. And yes, we are
going to see myself personally, I do

1457
02:20:35.559 --> 02:20:41.239
believe, and I think it is
clear that there is lobis behind it,

1458
02:20:41.159 --> 02:20:45.959
there is political manipulation, there are
political interests. What I want, then,

1459
02:20:46.120 --> 02:20:50.520
is for us to be as a
movement that promotes equality and the rights

1460
02:20:50.639 --> 02:20:54.920
of women and girls, that we
are with that independence, independence because to

1461
02:20:54.920 --> 02:21:03.280
us who supports us is the word
we say that I do not marry,

1462
02:21:05.799 --> 02:21:09.600
we are not going to identify with
any political party. We do not know

1463
02:21:09.680 --> 02:21:13.600
that this is a delicate subject,
but I say it freely, which is

1464
02:21:13.760 --> 02:21:20.799
my personal opinion as believers, because
there is our conscience, to know truth

1465
02:21:22.000 --> 02:21:26.479
with whom we can identify with whom, no, perhaps one of this party,

1466
02:21:26.760 --> 02:21:30.760
has values, etc. But senecafaz. What it intends is, of

1467
02:21:30.879 --> 02:21:39.200
course, to separate itself in this
sense from any political movement that tries to

1468
02:21:39.319 --> 02:21:41.799
encase us or trap us in that
sense. But I do believe that there

1469
02:21:43.360 --> 02:21:48.879
is a great opposition, that there
is manipulation there and I think that is

1470
02:21:48.000 --> 02:21:50.200
why it is part of the initiative
to pull this movement out. That'

1471
02:21:50.360 --> 02:22:00.440
s why they don' t box
us in any of them They don'

1472
02:22:00.440 --> 02:22:01.079
t cross us off as fake religious
prudes. No, this is what Jesus

1473
02:22:01.200 --> 02:22:07.000
defended. This is what God clearly
says in Genesis, and inequality is a

1474
02:22:07.040 --> 02:22:13.639
consequence of sin, like so many
others, as God said, the man

1475
02:22:13.760 --> 02:22:18.639
will rule over you to laugh in
pain, but to man he said you

1476
02:22:18.719 --> 02:22:24.000
will earn the bread with the sweat
of your forehead the earth will be hostile

1477
02:22:24.079 --> 02:22:28.799
to you and that are consequences that
we have. For any consequence of sin,

1478
02:22:28.959 --> 02:22:31.760
we have to fight, although we
have to go to the root.

1479
02:22:33.280 --> 02:22:35.520
That the root we know that,
that is, the cure of all this,

1480
02:22:35.879 --> 02:22:43.200
what Christ is the answer of Jesus. But until this is incarnate,

1481
02:22:43.920 --> 02:22:48.760
we have to fight for justice in
all these areas. My personal burden is

1482
02:22:48.879 --> 02:22:54.760
this in this sense, among the
statements and says as women in Jesus we

1483
02:22:54.879 --> 02:23:01.559
identify with the original feminism of Christian
roots promoted by evangelical women, the result

1484
02:23:01.639 --> 02:23:05.959
of which was the declaration of Senecatholls
in one thousand eight hundred forty- eight,

1485
02:23:05.239 --> 02:23:09.799
and which promoted the education of women, the legality of higher education,

1486
02:23:09.440 --> 02:23:13.959
female suffrage, the fight against slavery
and racism and other civil rights, when

1487
02:23:15.079 --> 02:23:20.760
others did not exactly, when in
that sense, when no one did.

1488
02:23:22.159 --> 02:23:24.280
That' s why nobody did it. It means that now it looks like

1489
02:23:24.360 --> 02:23:26.600
we' re caught up. No, but in fact, nothing is.

1490
02:23:28.360 --> 02:23:33.079
That' s what I want to
claim, not that if we go to

1491
02:23:33.079 --> 02:23:39.200
history, this is recorded, we' re going to search any history book,

1492
02:23:39.360 --> 02:23:43.760
I say in Google and you'
ll see all the information there is

1493
02:23:43.840 --> 02:23:50.319
about I really believe that this was
the real revival, a really biblical revival

1494
02:23:50.319 --> 02:23:54.959
leads us, that is, to
a transformation of lives, to a transformation

1495
02:23:54.959 --> 02:23:58.120
of society. I think it was
such that I wish it would happen again.

1496
02:23:58.239 --> 02:24:03.120
True, we can reach the laws, the politicians, the sayings.

1497
02:24:03.000 --> 02:24:09.280
Here there was at this moment of
Senecafas, a transformation of society that touched,

1498
02:24:09.479 --> 02:24:13.479
because he got exactly the female suffrage. Everything you' ve said.

1499
02:24:13.639 --> 02:24:18.239
Slavery was abolished in many places,
that is, it was a tremendous advance

1500
02:24:18.440 --> 02:24:24.120
for pioneer Christians in advances in social
reform, and I think that is very

1501
02:24:24.239 --> 02:24:31.120
important. That is the consequence of
a true conversion or of a true flood.

1502
02:24:31.639 --> 02:24:35.719
More than shapes or more than noises
or more than you don' t

1503
02:24:35.719 --> 02:24:39.920
understand. That stays there, but
this was a real revival and we were

1504
02:24:41.040 --> 02:24:46.559
pioneers, of course. Besides,
there were women. For the first time,

1505
02:24:46.040 --> 02:24:50.079
he was also a pioneer in entering, that is, prostitution, removing

1506
02:24:50.120 --> 02:24:56.000
women from prostitution, as was Lydia
Finney and others who entered the prison,

1507
02:24:56.120 --> 02:25:01.200
helping women in prison who had their
rights. And then that education, which

1508
02:25:01.200 --> 02:25:05.760
is very important, and here I
do allow you to point out that of

1509
02:25:05.879 --> 02:25:11.200
all this movement and education the higher
schools for women, from here came Alice

1510
02:25:11.559 --> 02:25:16.559
Gordon Wollik, who was the first
woman she came to Spain as a missionary

1511
02:25:16.680 --> 02:25:24.760
of all this movement, came to
Santander with her husband in one eight hundred

1512
02:25:24.840 --> 02:25:31.120
seventy out there and created the first
schools of women and the first three university

1513
02:25:31.120 --> 02:25:33.639
students for free, which she formed
because women could not go to university at

1514
02:25:33.719 --> 02:25:37.639
that time, neither in Spain nor
in many places. It was Alice Gordon

1515
02:25:37.639 --> 02:25:46.479
Wollik, a higher education movement and
she founded the International Institute of Women at

1516
02:25:46.559 --> 02:25:52.399
Miguel Angel Street in Madrid. So
it' s exciting July what' s

1517
02:25:52.479 --> 02:25:54.440
there that we have to rescue.
Yeah, sure, I love how you

1518
02:25:56.319 --> 02:26:01.920
work it, how you focus it. Acent, happy for this initiative and

1519
02:26:01.399 --> 02:26:07.600
I really think we' re with
you because look. I personally am a

1520
02:26:07.639 --> 02:26:11.559
fan of women, because yes,
I have seen it throughout my earliest conversion

1521
02:26:11.639 --> 02:26:18.040
and I have seen and clear there
are misinterpretations about the subject of women in

1522
02:26:18.159 --> 02:26:26.520
the Church. Of course and this
idea of equals no more and no less

1523
02:26:26.799 --> 02:26:30.280
so effectively nor fights, nor fights
between both sexes at all, if it

1524
02:26:30.360 --> 02:26:33.440
is anything other than doing radical feminism
or putting ourselves on. And no,

1525
02:26:33.920 --> 02:26:35.920
no, it' s not like
that. On the contrary, we don

1526
02:26:37.120 --> 02:26:39.959
' t need each other. This
is a struggle of comrades, brothers and

1527
02:26:41.040 --> 02:26:43.920
sisters, side by side. Of
course we are partners in this project of

1528
02:26:43.920 --> 02:26:48.120
life, but because it will benefit
men and women, society, our children.

1529
02:26:50.399 --> 02:26:52.520
It' s everyone' s project. And I think so, that

1530
02:26:52.600 --> 02:26:58.239
we have to go ahead and I
am very grateful for the support that I

1531
02:26:58.440 --> 02:27:03.280
did not expect so quickly from many
pastors, for so- called pastors too,

1532
02:27:03.559 --> 02:27:05.399
but in this case it is important
that the male be there. No

1533
02:27:07.079 --> 02:27:11.920
and so, positive answers, Julio. So yes, that' s what

1534
02:27:11.959 --> 02:27:16.879
gave me as the backup. Not
to go forward. I feel supported and

1535
02:27:16.959 --> 02:27:22.360
it is very important to me this
is not an isolated or isolated white shooters.

1536
02:27:22.440 --> 02:27:24.920
No, no, no, no, it' s just that I

1537
02:27:24.040 --> 02:27:30.239
thank you very much too and with
pleasure Jesus. Well, the paradigm of

1538
02:27:30.360 --> 02:27:33.719
many things Jesus. In fact,
Jesus had a lot of women following him

1539
02:27:33.799 --> 02:27:39.959
who were disciples of him and who
went everywhere with him. But Jesus'

1540
02:27:39.079 --> 02:27:46.760
encounter with the Samaritan woman is paradigmatic, because it breaks all the social standards

1541
02:27:46.920 --> 02:27:52.879
of the time Jesus, all,
all. And indeed, and that is

1542
02:27:54.000 --> 02:27:58.440
the claim. Well or the woman
who is found in adultery, when the

1543
02:27:58.479 --> 02:28:05.479
woman was, because the hostile OPA
was death. But Jesus raises his head

1544
02:28:05.559 --> 02:28:09.760
and says whoever is free of sins, let him throw himself at her.

1545
02:28:11.200 --> 02:28:16.159
And because of this marginalization of the
woman, and Jesus is always claimed for

1546
02:28:16.319 --> 02:28:22.000
his mercy, for his compassion,
for his tenderness and for the truth of

1547
02:28:22.079 --> 02:28:26.840
things he also claims to human beings, to the weakest, they put them

1548
02:28:26.879 --> 02:28:31.319
in their proper place, not effectively. Indeed, I believe that the gospel

1549
02:28:33.120 --> 02:28:37.040
of Jesus always goes to the oppressed, to help, the oppressed, the

1550
02:28:37.159 --> 02:28:43.840
weak and in this sense, the
women were at that time you know that

1551
02:28:43.840 --> 02:28:46.600
they counted, because as a slave, they no longer had any kind of

1552
02:28:46.600 --> 02:28:50.399
right. And here I see Jesus
breaking the schemes. I mean, maybe

1553
02:28:50.479 --> 02:28:54.760
he didn' t say any feminist
sermon we' re going to say,

1554
02:28:56.040 --> 02:29:00.479
but with his actions he did,
he dignified the woman. Come on,

1555
02:29:01.440 --> 02:29:03.639
there' s so many he cured, he touched, he healed, the

1556
02:29:03.000 --> 02:29:09.520
one he cried cleaning with his hair. That was breaking up and asking for

1557
02:29:09.520 --> 02:29:13.559
forgiveness. That was a tremendously breaker. And then, how to the first

1558
02:29:13.760 --> 02:29:18.959
woman who gives the message of the
risen Jesus, for not also Mary Magdalene,

1559
02:29:20.239 --> 02:29:24.760
the first tremendous woman when the testimony
of a woman you do not know

1560
02:29:26.239 --> 02:29:31.760
was not legal, was not considered
true. They were worthless, for he

1561
02:29:31.840 --> 02:29:35.639
broke the schemes and, as he
always did to us, a nod and

1562
02:29:35.680 --> 02:29:39.520
the women said that with his acts
he proved it, they were disciples,

1563
02:29:39.760 --> 02:29:43.040
they listened to her at her feet, she taught them. This was totally

1564
02:29:43.200 --> 02:29:46.600
breaker. Julio. What happens is
that we have to get into the context

1565
02:29:46.680 --> 02:29:52.600
of that time so that we really
see how much he dignified, restored dignity

1566
02:29:52.680 --> 02:29:58.200
to the woman, who has been
stolen from us not so long in this

1567
02:29:58.319 --> 02:30:03.559
diabolical way. Let' s say
yes, and it' s curious,

1568
02:30:03.239 --> 02:30:09.239
because women are the prototype of competitive, women' s, feminist movement,

1569
02:30:09.319 --> 02:30:13.520
movement of certain, well, the
most well- known feminist movement today,

1570
02:30:13.280 --> 02:30:22.760
radical feminism, which is left feminism
in general, is fundamentally that he puts

1571
02:30:22.760 --> 02:30:26.879
men. To the woman really the
choir against the man and masculinizes the exact

1572
02:30:26.959 --> 02:30:31.479
woman. It' s funny.
Neither the man is confronted with the woman,

1573
02:30:31.559 --> 02:30:35.799
nor the woman must be confronted with
the man. That is another of

1574
02:30:35.879 --> 02:30:41.159
the issues, another of the points
that we claim and that we make clear

1575
02:30:41.280 --> 02:30:46.120
in our manifesto, that is,
that women do not want to be men,

1576
02:30:46.520 --> 02:30:54.159
is that all we want is to
enhance our role as women and I

1577
02:30:54.639 --> 02:30:56.360
want that to be very clear,
because we do not want to be men.

1578
02:30:56.479 --> 02:31:01.680
We don' t want that and
I think where better than through the

1579
02:31:01.760 --> 02:31:07.600
image of Jesus, not in that
encounter with him. That' s where

1580
02:31:07.719 --> 02:31:11.319
we can all enhance. We must
realize our femininity. And man must regain

1581
02:31:11.719 --> 02:31:16.799
his place, because I believe that
all this radical feminism has also affected men

1582
02:31:16.879 --> 02:31:24.159
and I believe that there is a
kind of blurred identity in one and the

1583
02:31:24.319 --> 02:31:30.360
other. And this is very dangerous
to say I believe that God gives us

1584
02:31:30.559 --> 02:31:35.959
a clear identity as men and as
women, and we must preserve it as

1585
02:31:35.959 --> 02:31:37.719
the fruit of creation, of God' s design. But it' s

1586
02:31:37.879 --> 02:31:46.159
like this whole movement is coming too
The man is there He' s been

1587
02:31:46.159 --> 02:31:50.239
touched He' s got to get
back. I' m not saying that

1588
02:31:50.399 --> 02:31:54.440
in traditional roles because I think that
man has perhaps turned to other things and

1589
02:31:54.559 --> 02:31:58.920
failed to play his role as a
man. He' s got to get

1590
02:31:58.920 --> 02:32:03.159
his identity back. I also believe
that men and women must be placed in

1591
02:32:03.399 --> 02:32:09.719
the place that God gave us and
seek and seek that direction to be each

1592
02:32:09.799 --> 02:32:15.120
one in our place, in the
most important family without each other. It

1593
02:32:15.760 --> 02:32:18.879
is not true, because it is, as someone has said in humor,

1594
02:32:18.200 --> 02:32:22.399
that men today there are many cases, apart from the energies, these savages

1595
02:32:22.399 --> 02:32:30.120
who deserve all our contempt and that
justice relentlessly falls upon them that not only

1596
02:32:30.200 --> 02:32:37.680
abuse and without good murder. This
is intolerable. We have all the living

1597
02:32:37.760 --> 02:32:41.120
forces of society, we have to
be acting against this, but create a

1598
02:32:41.200 --> 02:32:48.440
crusade so that this decreases to the
point zero, which will be difficult.

1599
02:32:48.520 --> 02:32:54.440
But, but really, the man
himself in general is more confused than to

1600
02:32:54.520 --> 02:32:58.479
give on mother' s day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Men like

1601
02:32:58.440 --> 02:33:03.120
that are and that' s dangerous, that is, look, when you

1602
02:33:03.600 --> 02:33:07.360
take away your identity and I think
that there in a child just the same

1603
02:33:07.360 --> 02:33:13.200
from a young age, there begins
a tremendous problem. We need to know

1604
02:33:13.200 --> 02:33:20.000
who we are, where we are, what our role is, ours is

1605
02:33:20.079 --> 02:33:22.879
very important and there the attack is
coming, which is also an attack on

1606
02:33:22.920 --> 02:33:26.280
the family and then I think it
is to get everyone back to our place.

1607
02:33:28.280 --> 02:33:33.680
Neither machismos nor feminisms should exist,
but unfortunately there is one we want,

1608
02:33:35.200 --> 02:33:41.319
as I said, to return to
that design. It' s original

1609
02:33:41.799 --> 02:33:43.600
design that I' m telling you, in the 19th century it was the

1610
02:33:43.680 --> 02:33:48.840
one that we pioneered. So,
and of course, we don' t

1611
02:33:48.040 --> 02:33:52.959
want to be men and we don' t want to face the sexes,

1612
02:33:52.959 --> 02:33:56.239
that' s something else. We
want to repeat again, work together and

1613
02:33:56.399 --> 02:34:01.079
not face the sexes, because that' s where you' re wasting a

1614
02:34:01.079 --> 02:34:03.600
lot of time. You know,
the subject is being diverted to a sex

1615
02:34:03.600 --> 02:34:07.799
war, if not that. And
then you' ve also touched a little

1616
02:34:07.920 --> 02:34:11.799
bit on the issue of violence against
women, which is a reality that exists,

1617
02:34:13.600 --> 02:34:18.200
which is there to say is that
forty- six women in what we

1618
02:34:18.280 --> 02:34:24.319
' ve been doing for the year
is hard and but simply saying that violence

1619
02:34:24.360 --> 02:34:28.479
generates is a consequence of inequality,
which if you consider women, an object,

1620
02:34:28.959 --> 02:34:33.639
a sexual object, it' s
inferior to you. Hence this issue,

1621
02:34:35.000 --> 02:34:41.920
which is the inequality of machismo that
leads to great extremes, leads to

1622
02:34:41.360 --> 02:34:46.719
violence, leads to murder, leads
to aggression. Okay, then. We

1623
02:34:46.799 --> 02:34:50.760
have to work there too, but
I think you know where there' s

1624
02:34:50.840 --> 02:34:54.000
more to work is in education.
For me, pastoral care is fundamental to

1625
02:34:54.079 --> 02:34:58.760
families. I see that we have
to tell myself also as a pastor,

1626
02:34:58.399 --> 02:35:05.079
to influence the pastoral care of the
family, to educate as children, to

1627
02:35:05.200 --> 02:35:07.559
help parents, because I see that
they have a challenge. I already have

1628
02:35:07.680 --> 02:35:13.479
grandchildren, I see my children and
what a challenge our children have. With

1629
02:35:13.239 --> 02:35:18.600
our grandchildren we still have to see, but I think that influencing there we

1630
02:35:18.639 --> 02:35:24.719
have a lot to contribute to families. So I think that this is where

1631
02:35:24.799 --> 02:35:31.479
we have to get in the way
and from the churches promote equality. Since

1632
02:35:31.600 --> 02:35:35.879
little ones, in Sunday schools,
at home, sometimes they say that the

1633
02:35:35.959 --> 02:35:39.520
church, of course, but from
home they see my dad and my mom

1634
02:35:39.600 --> 02:35:46.200
how they are treated. As you
know, the equality there is, what

1635
02:35:46.319 --> 02:35:48.920
you see there, is what the
children are going to manifest. So we

1636
02:35:50.000 --> 02:35:54.280
have to get on with it,
be an example, and in the churches

1637
02:35:54.280 --> 02:35:58.319
as well, yes. Women have
to be and are in some cases as

1638
02:35:58.200 --> 02:36:03.239
involved as men in all ecclesiological projects
because it is not a lower value.

1639
02:36:07.000 --> 02:36:13.079
They are equal conditions, but this
we do not have to ignore and I

1640
02:36:13.520 --> 02:36:20.719
would also like to finally put in
value that, speaking of the houses of

1641
02:36:20.719 --> 02:36:26.760
aid for evil women, I remember
that you and together with a team,

1642
02:36:26.479 --> 02:36:33.319
were pioneers of projects of shelters for
battered women when there were very few in

1643
02:36:33.319 --> 02:36:37.239
Spain, Yes, very few,
but counted on the fingers of one hand.

1644
02:36:37.360 --> 02:36:39.520
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the issue of foster care

1645
02:36:39.639 --> 02:36:48.440
is a problem because there are few. I mean, the state is looking

1646
02:36:50.120 --> 02:36:56.639
forward to seeing that there too I
see a possibility. You are needing us

1647
02:36:56.719 --> 02:37:03.120
to present serious projects to you,
because nothing else will supply us throughout this

1648
02:37:03.120 --> 02:37:09.200
I now, especially work on the
subject of accompaniment, which is very important,

1649
02:37:09.719 --> 02:37:16.239
accompanying all these women who are suffering
counseling and accompaniment, listening to legal

1650
02:37:16.239 --> 02:37:26.040
advice. We also have an agreement
or a lawyer' s office and spiritually

1651
02:37:26.120 --> 02:37:30.040
there it opens to us because they
need to be heard, to be believed.

1652
02:37:30.319 --> 02:37:35.399
Hope. Yes, and there opens
a tremendous door where I think we

1653
02:37:35.479 --> 02:37:41.360
can have the answer then. Yes, ideally, there would be much more

1654
02:37:41.399 --> 02:37:46.879
resources from the evangelical churches. It
happens that this is a great challenge that

1655
02:37:46.920 --> 02:37:50.760
means are needed. But anyway,
there we are. Yes, it'

1656
02:37:50.760 --> 02:37:54.559
s true, yes, there are
some foster homes, but many more would

1657
02:37:54.719 --> 02:37:58.200
be missing for many more. This
is a plague, an epidemic that needs

1658
02:37:58.719 --> 02:38:05.440
to be done as soon as possible
and, obviously, houses is a way

1659
02:38:05.520 --> 02:38:07.639
of safeguarding the integrity of many women. Yes, in urgent cases. Yeah,

1660
02:38:07.840 --> 02:38:11.159
they' re necessary, really.
Yes, because you give them all

1661
02:38:11.239 --> 02:38:16.680
clear, denounce such, but you
don' t know that this is another

1662
02:38:16.760 --> 02:38:20.399
topic the best thing for back day. But once they report this, it

1663
02:38:20.559 --> 02:38:26.680
becomes a very complicated terrain. It' s not so easy not to say

1664
02:38:26.680 --> 02:38:28.440
this too it' s a little
distorted that the woman is given everything right

1665
02:38:28.440 --> 02:38:33.440
away. Well, there' s
everything, there' s everything and sometimes

1666
02:38:33.559 --> 02:38:35.399
it' s very complicated. No. So, in those stages where you

1667
02:38:35.920 --> 02:38:41.000
don' t have to leave the
house urgently, you lack resources. Yes,

1668
02:38:41.440 --> 02:38:46.079
obviously, so well, one more
challenge that we put on is a

1669
02:38:46.200 --> 02:38:50.920
quintana to the project' s coordinating
director or platforms in ek Fals and that

1670
02:38:52.319 --> 02:38:58.879
has for the equality of women and
girls. Then, the purpose statements and

1671
02:38:58.200 --> 02:39:03.959
the language on their setca false website
can be accessed there also on the Facebook

1672
02:39:05.079 --> 02:39:11.159
wall. Ah dear friend, thank
you for being there too for being so

1673
02:39:11.159 --> 02:39:13.200
brave. Thanks to you for real, to you and to everyone you support.

1674
02:39:15.760 --> 02:39:18.959
Thank you very much for nothing these, bless a hug and also congratulations

1675
02:39:20.239 --> 02:39:46.920
for your wonderful program. Thank you, come bye bye until you deny the

1676
02:39:46.959 --> 02:40:05.520
train of life. Life, Life, sister friend. Handmaid of God,

1677
02:40:05.799 --> 02:40:16.079
Blessed wife, ojida, are you
may be greater than gold and ruby your

1678
02:40:16.280 --> 02:40:33.000
cuffed husband rests people. You hear
the washed woman of FEA women of love,

1679
02:40:33.879 --> 02:40:41.120
who gave her heart? God?
Will you hear the washed woman of

1680
02:40:43.840 --> 02:40:52.239
faith, the women of adoring who
gave her heart? Christ, Ay jumped,

1681
02:41:05.600 --> 02:41:16.520
stretched out your hand and do not
heat you and cover us to the

1682
02:41:18.360 --> 02:41:28.479
poor favor strength and or not his
garment are not afraid in the morning you

1683
02:41:28.799 --> 02:41:39.440
would guphiate his heart, you will
wash, woman of faith, woman of

1684
02:41:41.159 --> 02:41:48.200
love who gave his heart to God. Hours to the vada mujeve sees woman

1685
02:41:48.639 --> 02:41:56.200
of love. Here its thing is
that the world forgets it of gold,

1686
02:41:58.559 --> 02:42:07.879
white God and Christ, exalts horse
to the paw woman of faith, woman

1687
02:42:07.879 --> 02:42:18.120
of love who gave her heart to
God, hear to the command woman of

1688
02:42:18.840 --> 02:42:31.280
faith, woman of love in which
ombres people that the deep hates him gold,

1689
02:42:33.159 --> 02:43:01.959
God bull no and chris dola skipped
the evangelical read a place of peace

1690
02:43:01.360 --> 02:43:09.840
and friendship. You can freely attend
the nearest evangelical church in your neighborhood or

1691
02:43:09.120 --> 02:43:11.920
your population you will be, very
welcome,