What up? Everybody? Welcome back to the dragon Ball Virgin Podcast. This
is the thirty fourth episode and we already at the Tournament of Power. I
am beyond excited and power. Yeah. I kind of like, let let
up vacuum there for Ray to say something but it and then he did.
He did come in with the hype. Um. So yeah, we got
to me goes in from anime uproar, and then we got my co host
and good friend Ray, What up? Ray? What up? Goes in?
What up? Everyone? I'm excited to get to near the end of
super. Um though I do, I am gonna have a take within this
episode. Okay, I get angry, so okay, like that's exciting.
I am curious about what that's gonna entail, all right. I mean I
will tell you who it's directed towards. It's probably like not that. No,
actually I have no problem with them. Okay, excellent, all right,
that's interesting. So yeah, guys, the again, we started with
dragon Ball the original series. Now we're all the way to the Tournament of
Power, and today we're discussing episode seventy seven to one hundred and four of
the dragon Ball Super anime. And then next we're finishing up the anime portion
watching episodes one hundred and five to one hundred and thirty one, and then
after that we'll get to the broy movie, which is something to look forward
to as well. All Right, so initial thoughts ray on this like kind
of insane Battle Royal setup that they have going on for this arc. Yeah,
so things I liked because this is the end of Super I do like
how they are providing us with some throwback characters, like Roshi is taking the
stage now. He's been basically irrelevant since Dragon Ball for the most part,
so he's come in, Piccolo's come in even ten. I do like revisiting
some of those older characters. It's very nostalgic, and even picking Freezer from
Hell was pretty freaking interesting. Yeah, that was a huge twist, and
I really appreciate it because I don't know if we told you, but we
probably did. Like Freeza is one of the most popular Dragon Ball Z villains,
and so yeah, I don't mind seeing him, and I like the
fact that not quite but he's getting a kind of vegeta treatment. Obviously not
as much like you know, but it's interesting to see them kind of hesitate
thing Lee having each other's back, even though we know that Freeze obviously tried
to backstab him when he got the trans Yeah, yeah, it is seeing.
I don't want to call it a transformation, but he is willing to
fight on that team because he knows. The alternative is the whole universe is
destroyed. And yeah, which that's another thing I wonder about too. So
if the universe is destroyed, did they go to that afterlife? Like does
everyone just go there? Ah, that's a good question. I assume no,
but maybe I'm not sure. I assume that the afterlife in this case
as part of the universe. That's that would be my guess, and that
everything gets erased. Yes, that is my assumption. But you're right in
the sense that they didn't describe it necessarily the exact same way as like when
Berus. They did talk about cause of destruction being able to completely erase someone's
existence. So it might be that kind of thing, because it would be
weird, like what are all these people doing in the afterlife? You know?
Yeah, no, exactly, It's so I guess there's kind of an
afterlife for each universe. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm guessing. And
yeah, Jedi also says in the chat that no, everything gets erased,
which, yeah, that kind of makes more sense because yeah, there would
always be less of a stake if they could just you know, somehow come
back, and yeah, I don't even know how they would because the dragon
balls wouldn't be a thing, right, but interesting question that never came up
for me or anyone else. Will watch it. Let me now get to
the parts that I'm raging at a right ray rage. Let's do it.
Rages. I cannot stand Goku. Oh wow, okay, not stand.
So I'm guessing that's because of the fact that he endangered everybody. Yeah,
yes, so he endangers everyone for selfish reasons and the fact that there are
such high stakes. I think you know what. It all sank in the
rage just sank right in saying yeah super sayan Rose, the one guy I
think his name was Omni. Near the end, he ended up getting defeated
by or getting pushed out the ring by Gohan, and Gohan found his locket
with his family, kind of highlighting how like this has real life implications in
it, Like you're you're racing an entire you know, civilization, and Goku
is just you know, playing around in the ring, Happy go Lucky.
I'm like, God, this guy doesn't understand the implications what he did because
he was so selfish and wanting the stupid fight like he had to. I
understand, Like he didn't ask for that. At least it was the grin
Zenos who kind of came up with the idea, I believe, right,
Yeah, so this is the thing it. At first, we were all
like, bro, is Goku the villain? As we were all watching this
originally when it came out. I remember there was a conversation with has Goku
become the villain of the series in a way, or at least the villain
of this arc by getting all these universes erased? But then they went out
of their way to make it clear that Zena was actually going to erase the
lower universes anyways, and Goku actually gave them a chance to survive. So
again they kind of retroactively made it not to be that Goku caused like the
mass slaughter of countless people. But the thing is, the lower universe is
not every universe except the winning one. Yeah, So again, it all
depends on kind of how you look at it. Because here in this way,
although Goku didn't necessarily it wasn't go Goku's idea, but Goku influenced them
and made them help them to come up with the idea, and yeah,
at least everyone has a chance to survive, while before some people didn't.
So yeah, although I know what you're saying, and it all went through
all of our heads where we're like, Goku, like, I know you
love fighting, but it's not worth like the mass destruction of all the universes.
I know. It's just it pissed me off this whole time and was
bothering me when he was in the ring, you know, kind of smiling
and fooling around and saying oh the one time, specifically with Hit at the
end when he's like, oh, well you better make sure you saved that
fight for me, and I'm like, bro, look what, like,
look what the consequence of what you wanted? It came out to be like
all these innocent lives. But I love your point of view that you're like,
hey, this dude is having at the time of his life while people
are like straight up losing their families and shit like that. Yeah, So
we had Supreme VIDs pros say, actually, Ray the tournament of Power is
because Beeris and Shampa had made their tournament and Goku just reminded Zeno about it.
So no, Goku is not directly responsible for the top for the Tournament
of Power being created. So that's just one way to look at it and
make it seem like Goku is less of a bad guy than he might initially
come across on your first glance at this season. All right, I'll consider
it. I'm still pissed at him, but I don't know, no,
even if even if he isn't directly you know, implicating this just the fact
that he is so happy, go lucky when people are being erased, just
because you see the others and the others are kind of shocked, like Gohan
shocked, yeah, and Goku is just like yeah, whatever. So pretty
much Goku has this mentality where everything will work out right. So yeah,
but it is interesting to see how people are straight up being a race entire
universes and he's not blinking an eye. But I think Goku always has this
ever present feeling that everything will be all right, and I think that's what's
letting him be carefully compared to someone like Gohan, who tends to be very
empathetic and worry a lot about things. And I mean we could even we
could get into predictions later, but I do predict the super dragon Balls will
help to quote unquote save the day later on. But still because we we
you know, as a dragon Ball consumer at this point, I kind of
understood how some of these stories end. I mean, there is unpredictable how
you don't say, like as a watcher or as a fan. I'm a
consumer of dragon Ball. I just consume like it's some kind of drug,
like hit me with that dragon Ballum. Yeah, like this show compared to
even say something, the only other I guess anime I watched Attack on Titan,
which was way more unpredictable this one. You can predict, you know,
many times how the certain arcs will end, though there is you know,
they're unpredictable, smaller events within the actual arc itself. So do I
believe that their universe will be erased and that will be the end of the
story. I mean I don't think, so you never know, but yeah,
I don't know. I just it left a bad taste in my mouth.
But we could get to if you'd like the beginning, because there is
a because we're starting with people training, right, rather than jumping into the
tournament of power itself. Yeah. Yeah, we get the whole context at
the beginning, with the two Grenzenos, you know, playing and then Goku
going there learning about the tournament, learning that it's ten people per universe,
and then they're kind of scouting their different fighters for the tournament. And something
else that happened as well, just aside from the tournament that it is kind
of dropped, is Boma has a baby, and you see Vegeta wanting to
be this like loyal husband and stay with her, though not be too close
because he can't look like yeah, the one who is affects from those moments.
I love those Legina Boma moments. Yeah, so that was kind of
funny to see in the background of them recruiting all the fighters, how he's
like, yeah, I can't go to fight in this tournament and he's like
just so he's not even a norm I think he just he accepts it and
he's just kind of getting impatient. That whole child birth process was pretty weird
with Wist. Well, yeah, like, yeah, he's like a godlike
entity. So so what he did was he pretty much just delivered the baby
without any pain or anything like that. Yeah, and like earlier than it
needed to be. Yeah, so I'm guessing I don't know, it's wist
right. Maybe he even like sped up time a bit and just like made
everything work out perfectly. But that was very cool. Yeah, And because
of the way Vegeta has been set up to be more of a cold hearted
badass sometimes than Goku. Yeah, those moments where he that he shares with
bull Mine, caring about bull Mine, caring about his kids, like it
just melts your heart like no other moments in Dragon Ball. Yeah, he's
definitely like transformed and that's awesome to see. And he's never going to,
you know, be that affectionate character someone like Gohan, but he understands where
he has to be at a certain time, and he is a family it's
strange to say, in a weird way, he is a family man,
Like he does care for his son, yea, his wife, and I
think, like we can you know, a lot of people can relate to
those kinds of father figures that like, you know, they care. It's
just they're not gonna be h. They're not gonna be like Gohan. They're
not gonna be overly showing their love, but you could still tell Vigina cares.
M Yeah. So I mean that was going on in the background.
And then obviously we had the recruitment of the different fighters. I thought it
was hilarious how yam thought he was going to be recruited the whole time.
Bro. They keep doing my boy yobshot dirty bro, Like he was so
like, I don't even get that was almost more of a gag than realistic,
because there's no way he thinks he could keep up, right, Like
you have Krillin who's probably stronger than him, you have TN who's probably stronger
than him, and they're all like, you know, they recognized the gap
between them and Goku and yeahmcha is like Broya comes in to save the day.
Let's go. So yeah, that was a that was hard to watch
because they're just they're just playing hard to get They're gonna make some extravagant proposal
and be like yo, yeah you are missing ingredient. Yeah exactly. So
that was interesting, kind of random. I gotta admit, knowing, like
what we know of the series that Yamsha would think that, but who knows
Yamsha is a weird dude. Maybe he thinks, maybe he thinks because it's
like an weird kind of tournament that he'd be able to help in kind of
like a baseball way. Yeah, so to them, maybe he got like
an you go high from that baseball game in the previous heart and he's like,
yeah, see they needed me then, so they'll need me for this
exactly. Sure enough that don't even consider him. He did get his moment
to shine, which was nice, though obviously not as much as some other
characters. But how did you like the team itself? So jumping up bit
ahead here, but yeah, did you think it was a good ten people?
Um, is there anyone? Is there anyone who shocked you that they
weren't there? Kind of thing? Well, here's the thing. You think
of some of those Namechians, I'm pretty sure they were stronger than someone like
Roschi, right, remember like the ones that we're fighting Freezer back on the
other This would have been in Dragon Ball Ze. Not really, I don't
know, I mean potentially, but the implication is that Rosh has gotten stronger,
that he's been keeping up with training when people aren't watching, and those
the Mechians, mostly except Nail, who fused with Piccolo, right, except
Nail, they were mostly not fighting mammics, right, So I wouldn't put
any of those in the team instead of Rosy. And again, we gotta
keep in mind it's also not just about pure strength. It's also about how
are they going to work together. And Rosy's obviously the wise old man who
will probably be able to be useful in a battle Royale, and he knows
these characters, so they can probably work better together than throwing in a random
the Mecchian. Yeah, no, very true. I think the other members,
I mean, it's strange to think basically all of them at not all
of them, but most of them at one point were enemies of Goku.
So you have ten, you have Piccolo, you have vegeta seventeen eighteen Krellan
as well. Yeahive enemy Freeze obviously. Yeah. The only people who weren't
necessarily quote unquote enemies at one point with with Goku are Master Roshi and Gohan,
and the rest were all like antagonists at the very least turned friends.
Yeah, and even I mean, he definitely wasn't an antagonist, but you
could argue he was this obstacle at one point Roshi when he was Jackie Chung
back in Dragon Ball, So all of them had to face Goku at one
point except his son. So yeah, it is funny how it all turns
out. It's all of those people that he had to compete against have become
members of his team and have like joined the quote unquote good side for this
tournament. So that was that was interesting itself. Her Cuel, I think
even had a temporary position at one point at the beginning for the spoke.
If that happened, then I purposely blocked it from my memories. Yeah,
this is irrelevant. Yeah that somehow somewhere. Yeah, so Hercule has sort
of been replaced. But yeah, I know what you mean. He did
have some great moments about like getting the credit for those crazy things. It's
just like, how long can you keep going with those jokes before they kind
of get too repetitive? Um, what about everyone's initial training with Goku?
You know, we had Krillns, we had we had Gohans, we had
him getting Freezer, right, we had him and tenn story where they save
his students, and there's that girl who seems to crush on him. I'm
guessing right, Like, is that just me or I didn't fully get that.
It seemed like she was pissed at him because she m was part of
his old martial arts school and she wanted revenge. Yeah, I didn't get
that vibe for me, Like that kind of that she cares so much would
suggest to me that it's kind of a kind of a sign that she cares
about him. But yeah, you're right, maybe it's just maybe it's just
me wanting to make everything into like a romantic thing. So speaking of romantic
just on the topic, I got a vibe I don't know if you got
it of Callie what was her name, Calif Khalifa. I don't think it's
Khalifa. Yeah, I thought it was pronounced more like Callie Flower, but
it wasn't fully flower at the end. It was like Collie floor or something,
because they're all like different vegetables. Right, I'm gonna say Khalifa until
all right, until someone of the chats like, no, you idiot,
it's this. So I found she seemed like she had some feel for Kale.
Did you not get that vibe? Like she was like, you're my
friend, who are Like it seemed like more than just friendship, Like there
were some Okay, So apparently kalif Lah so I only left out the l
at the end, So kalif Fla according to Jedi, so we could go
off of that, um, so Khalifla and yeah kale Yah um Yeah,
I think I think there is that kind of possibility, but they're usually framing
it as sisters. And then maybe she's so attached her and she doesn't have
anyone else in her life that anyone coming in the way between them kind of
threatens her, even if it's not romantic. But yeah, she definitely like
had extremely strong feelings for her and got extremely jealous when anyone when it got
in their way for sure. Like if you remember again, I'm gonna reference
the only other enemy of attack on Titan, those two girls, and I
totally historia and a mirror, Like I got that same vibe here as I
did there. It was like, oh, I want to protect you,
and like, I don't know, I just I felt it was more than
just friendship. But that was just me. But that was like the first
time in Dragon in the Dragon Ball series two, you've seen that kind of
deep affectionate love with like two women, even if it is friendship. And
so yeah, that we're gonna We're gonna address another first, which I'm really
excited to talk about. First, I just want to say Sam, thank
you for donating five hundred bits. Toriyama sure loves his greens. Yeah,
so, as you could tell, even with them, there's the same kind
of saying vegetable kind of theme going on. But yeah, I wanted to
say so first female super sayings, right, how the fuck did you act
to that? So the first one was pretty interesting, and it's funny how
to get to super Sian. Before in Dragon Ball Z it seemed like it
was this huge process and now it's just you get angry and you're able to
be that though. That that's the funny thing, um, because it wasn't
even anger at the end of the day that they all needed to do.
It was focusing on the tangling in your back. Oh yeah. So yeah,
honestly, that are those are arguably just how it happens. Some of
the worst saying transformations in the entire series, just not visually, not like
the fact that it happened, just just how it happens, because it just
lacks that drama we usually get when it comes to saying transformations, right,
but at the same time, I did love the fact that they went super
Sian, and if you notice, there was definitely like broadly I was gonna
say that influence. Okay, yeah, go ahead talk about that. No,
I was gonna say with Kale because when she turned super say, not
only does she have the build of Browley, the hair, but she doesn't
have the pupils as well. So it was that kind of I think even
Vegeta said like, oh, this could be one of those ancient says we
were you know, we've been told for years about. So yeah, I
definitely got that Browley vibe. And then obviously later on when she's able to
control that anger more, then she gets the pupils back and she's like a
little more just in control of her body. Like I don't think she's necessarily
as bulky. Kale is the legendary female super Sian, So yeah, no,
that's interesting. So yeah, Kale is the one who seems to have
like strong feelings for Khalifla, while Khalifla is like, yeah, I got
your back, sister, and she's like, no, I want all of
you. But yeah, there is there is definitely that relationship. It was
interesting idea and again this is not they didn't have the time to do a
good job with all of these side characters, because they're just giving us some
initial moments to get excited for them eventually because going into the tournament. Because
yeah, so again we can't judge too harshly. But if you compare like
Goku against Freezer transformation to Kale's transformation, it's well, Kale is interesting because
of the legendary aspect of it, but Khalifla's transformation, for example, it
wasn't as cool. But I loved seeing female superscians. Yes, yeah,
I did find that problem. I don't even know if you want to call
it a problem, but the difficulty watching at times where it was tough to
connect to some of these new characters because there were just so many new ones,
Like, you know, we got ton obviously, we have eighty different
fighters they mentioned within this tournament, so to you know, there were a
couple episodes where I got some of the backstories of their planets and them recruiting
people, and I just, you know, didn't really feel that emotional attachment
all with some of these characters. And you know, it's tough to even
remember their names. Yeah, until we saw that picture of that one dude,
which was a good scene because it's like, hey, these guys have
just as complex lives their main characters, even if they look like aliens.
Right. But yeah, otherwise, like I did not give a fuck about
that guy until that scene. Right, I'm like, get them go ho
kick his ass, let's go. The one group I did like like that
we're memorable were the Pride Troopers. They gave me a sort of like gein
you Force esque Slash Avengers Slash. There are so many references and homages like
do you guys the subversion of magical girls, So if you think of like
Sailor Moon and stuff like that, and instead of turning into these you know,
well dressed gorgeous girls, they turned into like you know, they the
one turns into like a version of herself that's just super fat, and some
people are like like top uh. The guy who's on Jeron's team, he
gets like all he starts to blush as if you know, some people find
that more attractive than their slender forms. So yeah, it's very interesting,
Hooky Wookie, thank you so much man for the gifted subs. But yeah,
no, and as Sam points out. Uh, they're leaded by They're
led by that clown got a destruction, which is such a cool design as
well. Yeah, it's like that. It's character the clown from or Pennywise
from or I always think of like Joker, but yeah, Joker as well.
Yeah, yeah, it's funny. It's interesting to see the kind of
different kind of mutation. They're not even mutations, but the different um like
the differences I guess of the various gods of destructions because you know, depending
on we only have the two similar ones with Universe seven, but then the
other ones take on this other like the one is an elephant, I think,
um, though all of the one is Cleo. Yes, all of
the wee type characters seem to be fairly similar. Another thing, so you
know, I mentioned that that one looks like kind of like the Joker,
not really, but kind of has seems like a reference to to like a
cool, badass cloud based guy like the Harley Quinn. We is fucking cool
ass. Fuck she's my favorite design hands now. I love the Harley Quinn
look on an angel. Yeah no, yeah, there were there are some
cool designs. They're like cool aesthetics of some of the different characters from the
other universes, so it was it was pretty cool. But my main issue,
I think was just trying to connect with them a track of them,
keep track. I had the subtitles on, and what I would sometimes do
is like when a character talks, sometimes they mentioned the character's name and I
would try to like write it down. But even that it gets tough because
some characters they jump right in and they're blown out of the ring, or
it doesn't take them that long, and the only time you hear their name
is when someone from their teams like oh, no, so and so so.
Yeah, it was tough to keep track of a lot of these names,
and it's so different from other tournaments, where it's usually this whole drawn
out, like multiple episodic at times battle between two characters and get their backstory.
Like this was just random characters jumping in and out, and sometimes it
would focus on a particular fight with say Goku, then it would jump to
like Piccolo, then you know, Hits, So it was just going all
over the place. Though. It's funny how I think the tournament they say
is forty eight minutes long, and it's just like multiple episodes have already taken
place and they're like, oh no, by the end of it, there's
only thirty five minutes left. Yeah, you'll definitely find that in shown in
series where sometimes you'll have time skips and then sometimes you'll straight up like have
one hour last multiple episodes. Because I thought it, I thought of it
at first. I'm like, maybe it's the different episodes will showcase a different
moment within that time, but it isn't, because it's it's a sequential event,
like characters fall off at specific times because the Grand Zenos are keeping track
of who's falling out, so they're doing it chronologically. So it's just this
drawn out process. I'm thinking how I would just make it a bit more
realistic and say, Okay, this tournament is X amount of hours and try
to keep it realistic or whatever. I understand. There, Yeah, there's
there's at right. Um. I feel like Dragon ball Z was famous for
that, like prolonging those moments, so I'm not surprised that we got some
of that here. Um. Then there's also like just we kind of jumped
ahead. But I just want to say, like I love the Krillan training
part. Obviously, Gohan was interesting too, like he I liked that he
got back to his old strongest self, if not the strongest he's ever been
as ultimate Gohan, right, that's beyond Supersatian two and exactly. And I
like the fact that Krillan and Android eighteen had their moments, and yeah,
the Krillan is like working so hard, and yeah, I really enjoyed even
though I know Krillan is never gonna be an all star on the team,
I enjoyed his struggle and his getting back into fighting. Yeah, and for
this particular turn, you don't necessarily have to be an all star because it's
more about strategy than anything else. Like you see the first time Krillan and
Goku they spar together, he actually like knocks him out of the whatever ring
they're they're using, and he's kind of like no, Like Marin's like,
oh my dad won, He's like, oh no, don't, like he
didn't. He didn't, But it's like, yeah, you could, you
know, you could use strategy. And that's what Goku struggling with there,
is that he's like learning the game as well, because he's never done something
like this where you have fighters all over the place, some of them already
have a strategy in place, double teaming him or letting your guard down for
one minute like with Krillan does letting his guard down and then Frost knocking him
out of the rings. So it's just a different kind of tournament. I
know, Krella, what are you do? I mean, I he did
do some good stuff before he got knocked out, but you can't let that
happen, man, I mean, you were already there as a result of
you know, you're bringing more to the table and just your physical strength,
and to have him taken out by not paying attention, it's like, fuck,
no, Krillan, I had so much hope for you. Though.
There is a beautiful moment when eighteen gets knocked out of the ring and Krillan
saves her and they just like stare into each other's eyes, and she has
this because she's she's been bashing him for a little while. It's just you
know, underhand jabs at how he's not a fighter anymore, and he's kind
of I don't want to say sold out, but you know he's changed in
a way because you know, he doesn't have that martial arts mentality anymore,
and how he's able to save her. There is like this great moment and
she has this realization no, well, like my husband is a badass.
Yeah she was. She was like super into it and then he said drop
the line like ha ha, I will let you forget this and then masterro
She's like way to ruin a beautiful moment or something like. So, yeah,
it was funny when krill and saved eighty and it was but yeah,
I love their dynamic. I do. Obviously eighteen sometimes seems at first glance
cold, but I think she really cares about Krilla, and I love that
relationship. I also wanted to say, how did you think about what did
you think about Roch's training where he was pretty much stuck with poar taking the
form of an attractive woman and he had to overcome his urges. And you
know what's interesting at the end of the last episode we've seen, I'm pretty
sure he's the focus in the next episode and there's like, you know,
there's an attractive woman and he's blushing. So yeah, that is his biggest
like nemesis is trying to tame himself, and he has so many, definitely
so many like pervy moments near the beginning, especially when he's with t N
and they're at that martial arts studio and he's literally like chasing that girl into
the house and you see like the you know, it's an animation obviously,
but the house is like jumping up and down with him trying to get with
her, and you're like, oh my god, this is this would not
be able to air on TV today, like in American culture because different things
acceptable for sure. Exactly the Perry Old Man is like a common and the
way it looks like beloved trope and anime, but yeah, you're not gonna
see that in like Nickelodeon cartoons probably no, or even like regular TV like
comedies nowadays, they they don't have that. So it was, you know,
it was interesting to see how obviously Super is a lot newer than Z.
You don't think Z and Dragon a ball with the Pervy Old Man.
It's like you could get a get away with it more on TV because it
was the nineties. I think it's like Japan just has different rules on it,
right, Yeah, and I I thought it was interesting and it was
also as a character like that was probably the biggest growth he could have gotten
to learn to control himself in the presence of attractive females. So yeah,
it's interesting to see mats Roshi continue to grow even into Dragon Ball Super because
he is that old character, could be retired character, and yet he keeps
stepping it up and becoming stronger, but also you know, building that discipline
overcoming his weaknesses. Yeah, and like you said, is that sage like
character. There's one time. I think it's when Krillin gets knocked out of
the ring and everyone's kind of freaking out, or at least a couple of
characters are, and he kind of reframes that situation. I forget exactly what
he says, but he kind of calms everyone down. So he is that
you know, he's been there so long, he's been in fighting for so
long, and he is able to calm out, especially those lesser fighters like
a Yen or maybe even in a way of Gohan, who isn't you know
he hasn't been fighting for that long for many years, like he's just got
back got back into training. So I do appreciate the dynamic he brings to
the fighters, how he's different from the other ones. Yeah, and obviously
I love the fact that they ended up getting Freezer, and I love the
whole when they got attacked by another universe, you know, Freeze and Goku,
and Goku was just trying to fight them at Freeze is like right at
kill leven stuff like that, and Goku is trying to prevent them from from
actually doing it. And then he turns that god of destruction energy on Goku.
And in a way, it almost seems like although they said they're about
equally matched, right, which is interesting, Freeze I was also training his
mind and how to conserve energy in Hell, but they seem equally matched.
But Freeze I was even able to beat Goku in the sense that he could
ape that got a destruction energy, so that was very interesting. Though Goku
I don't think was in super same blue right he was in his regular form.
Yeah, I don't know. But why wouldn't he like just used whatever
he can if he could? Kind of? I guess maybe he wasn't ready
yet. I don't know. I guess that's so many times, why don't
you just do this? But it's like he just loves at least in this
tournament. It has more sense because they're supposed to conserve energy, right,
So finally it makes sense. And some of the other battles. It's like,
bro, like you just got to win this battle, go full power.
But here the ideas they're conserving energy. So we even got to see
Super saying God Goku make an appearance rather than him jumping straight to Super sayan
Blue. Yeah, yeah for sure, so um that totally makes sense.
You have to have this whole new strategy there. But yeah, it was
it was weird and overall to see him and Freeze are working together, and
you know, it was weird as well is when Beers appears to go and
see, like what's taking them so long? Freeze is not even phased by
beers anymore. Remember the first time when we see Beers and Freeze is like
quivering and he's like he can't speak. Yeah, it was kind of like,
yeah, it was kind of like a vegeta. Yeah, because you
know, familiarity breeds indifference in a sense. And yeah, now that they
see him all the time, or they're more used to him, or he
sees that Goku hangs out with him, he seems less threatening than he did
when like, you know, he was surrounded by mystery. Yeah, and
maybe he knows, you know, beers can't like beers exactly right now.
He knows that he is useful, so he's going to use it. Yeah,
exactly. In every Rant Cafe associated podcast we try to say machiavellian and
every episode, and Freezer is machiavellian. Bro he is. He is willing
to do everything it takes, and even though he knew he might get caught,
he was willing to do it because he knew he was too valuable to
the team. So No, that was interesting. But yeah, we could
move on ahead to like whatever else we want to talk about in the tournament.
I think we covered the initial parts leading up to it pretty well.
Yeah, I mean the tournament, like I said, was just very different.
Obviously, it seemed like when the tournament starts, each of the episodes
focus on a particular like set of characters. So I mean we could get
into the different ones. I think, let me just see here, what
was the first one we had that like Hit and the No, there were
ones before. I think I have so many that are down. There's just
a lot of different like fights going on. Um there's that triangle of danger
or danger trying. But I think that's the first the Coyotes, So that
one was, I mean, it's interesting because I'm pretty sure we got that
preview within the expo because we had that X Expo before with the Coyotes,
and obviously the expo I don't think we covered it, but it ends early
because it's just a preview for the two Grand Zenos. But we had those
foxes or the coyotes fighting Gohan and Goku at one point, and they all
try to go after m Goku, but then Vegeta comes in and you know,
Key teams up with Goku to end up being able to knock them out
of the ring. And I think the Ninth universe, the one that the
foxes or the coyotes are part of, the first ones to be eliminated.
Yeah, they were actually considered one of the weakest from the beginning. Um,
yeah, I think they were the weakest, right, I think I
think that was the point because they were trying to set up like the hype
and after the initial you know match that Goku and them had against the wolves
or the coyotes, they pretty much said, yeah, these guys are from
the weakest universe, so and that's that builds up the hype. So every
single universe is going to bring stronger fighters, so that was to be expected
right there. Yeah, and yeah you already got that prolonged fight in the
expo, so um, yeah, there, there wasn't too much there was
interesting. The one had the power to be able to like blind you,
which I don't think have we had that. I think maybe we've had it
once. I don't think it was through that same technique. But to be
able to like blind a particular character, I think that was kind of a
Yeah, poison wasn't interesting ability and not only do you blind, but the
poison keeps working and they get like weaker and weaker. So no, that
was an interesting twist to add to it. And yeah, obviously you know
Gohan ended up having to deal with that, which wasn't a piece of cake,
no exactly. Yeah, so yeah, the wolves were interesting. You
have that giant Teddy Bear again before with the robot, and they're I mean,
I'm pretty sure they're pretty easy. Like the way Gohan dealt with him,
like he just kept punching hard, pushing him back, pushing him back,
and then he just fell off. So it's like, you know,
you think you gotta be smart with that guy, but Gohan was just like,
no, I'm just gonna fucking ram through him until he falls off the
thing. Yeah, and I think Goku steps in there for a second and
helps as well. So it's cool to see that teamwork between father and son
to get them done because he kind of steps in and then Gohan goes up
and uses the Kameyama wave on him. So that was, you know,
pretty cool to see that. I also loved dropping ahead a bit. I
also loved the Hit and Goku team up and how Hit initially obviously faced Dispo
by himself, which is like the super fast guy from the from Jaran's team.
And yeah, seeing Hit initially struggle was crazy because we're used to like
this guy being pretty much beyond Goku level, and then he was struggling in
the beginning and then they although he did manage to use his ability to put
himself in another dimension temporarily to almost beat Despo, but then his team member
brought him back, which I gotta say was the longest fall ever because so
many like times we saw people fall out of the ring and they like immediately
disappear. Dispo fell for like minutes and then he got saved. But yeah,
I love that Goku and Hit tag team. That was fucking amazing,
ridiculously hype obviously, what did you think of that? And whole hits whole
part in this. Yeah, it was interesting because the audience around they're shocked
as well when you see Hit not being able to you know, be effective
against him because of obviously the superhering he has, he could hear him move.
That was interesting. I gotta say, like that was an interesting little
way to fight. And then how Hit kind of turned it against him,
because yeah, I'm not used to that kind of thought going into Dragon Ball
super with like instead of just overpowering or stuff like that, it's like I
noticed that, you know, whenever you use that ability, every fiber in
your body moves and I can sense that and I can stop you before you
do it. Like that was pretty interesting to me. And then how Hit
was able to fake him out and like you know, flex all his muscles
but then not use the ability and trick him, and like that was actually
very entertaining fight. Well does he I mean I presume it has to do
with movement, but it appears that he's transparent sometimes it's sometimes transparent, So
is that actually him becoming transparent or is it him manipulating time that he appears
transparent to us. No, he is transparent because he's like I don't know,
I think they explained it before, like he's using a certain amount of
time that he kind of stacked up and you know, using it to make
his body invisible in this playing until he wants to make it visible again and
then he hits back. But yeah, there's it's something around his time power
where he could store it and then use it to become transparent for a while.
Yeah. So yeah, I mean that was It was cool because to
just have hit like annihilating guys and you kind of see the predictable nature of
what's going to happen. It gets a little repetitive and boring, but to
see him struggle there was kind of cool to see. Um. One guy,
I am very curious about it. I think his name is Jesspo.
Okay, if I'm not mistaken, he's the guy they describe him as the
stoic looking guy. So I don't see any jess Po. Like what team
is jering? Yes, yeah, Jesso, you were combining, you were
combining Geren and Dispo. Yeah, so go so Jarn is husion in here?
You never know Jern I wanted to get your thoughts on Jerr in two
because he seems like the ace up the sleeve of that universe. Yeah,
and he is bad ass in the sense of he could just look at you
and knock you out, so like he We've seen that sometimes with other characters,
but like that's his m It looks like there's we haven't seen any effort
on his part to be able to Yeah, that's another way of thing.
Yeah, he's just like chilling there until he's needed. When when Kale goes
out of control, right, it's it's Jered who's just like, yeah,
no worries, I got this, and he just quickly takes care of the
issue. So yeah, I feel like he's just conserving his energy while the
rest are fighting, and then they're expecting him to just you know destroy later
on in the tournament. Yeah, and you wonder that as well some of
these other universes. Do they have a strategy in hand, because obviously this
universe does not. Like at first, they were kind of like together and
they said, okay, let's stick to the plan, and I don't I
don't know. There was never mentioned a particular plan. But then obviously Goku
and just leaves right away because he wants to fight and Vegeta follows and freeze
A follows and right now they don't have, you know, that plan,
it seems in place, whereas other UNI verses, Yeah, we don't know.
They could have something up their sleeve, whether conserving energy or um.
You see, like the Sailor Moon esque team, like they have a whole
transformation, which I think is hilarious. Why that's so funny. Yeah,
I've got to say the same thing, but yeah, go ahead, Yeah,
I was gonna say because in this show you're so used to the whole
archetype of, you know, letting characters transform, and for seventeen to step
in there and ruin the transformation and they're like, yo, don't you what
are you doing? Don't up to wait for us to transform. It's like,
all right, you can do it again. You're not gonna do even
Goku was like, man, you got a lot of transform come on.
But yeah, if this is really like a Battle Royale, bro, you're
transforming takes five minutes. I'm going to take you out before you get a
trans and do it. And then seventeen got into playing the bad guy,
the villain of them as well. That seventeen is shining hard here, right,
because he he's kind of a wild card. I don't think any of
us watching the series, except maybe, like I don't know some genius dragon
Ball predictors, But I don't think anyone thought of seventeen before he actually came
into the picture of joining because he just hasn't been present the story for so
long. So getting him and seeing how strong he's become and how useful he's
being, right, he uses his green force field pretty often. And yeah,
like I'm loving seventeen's role in this so far. Yeah, and I
like getting a bit of his backstory about what he's been doing, Like he's
basically an animal conservationist, Like he's protecting these endangered like dinosaur slash animals.
So he's transformed as well, because we haven't really seen that transformation like up
close or for that long back in the Android tug of Dragon Ball Z.
So you see that he's you know, changed, And yeah, I mean
he shined a lot, and he was someone I did not expect that they
would try to go and find, like he just he's been like I know,
eighteen is still in the picture, but he's just I haven't thought about
him in a long time, and for him to step in and take on
such a role there was pretty cool to see because and yeah, we'll see
how strong he actually is man because he is clearly like Goku when he fought
him, was like, yo, you're hiding something. And then again he
shows new moves that Gogu hasn't seen, so it's confirmed that Seventeen was hiding
something even when he was doing really well against Goku. They both both weren't
going full out. But it's very, very interesting to see to what to
what extent seventeen will be able to keep up with the best of them.
And they have a huge, huge advantage in this the androids, right,
because you have eighteen and seventeen. They don't get tired, right, they
don't run out of energy. Could people sense their powers? Yeah, yeah,
so that's another advantage. So they're actually so so useful for this kind
of long last man standing wins kind of set up. Yeah, no,
I never thought of that. I thought of the not being able to like
master power, but that's interesting as well. They just because they're not humans,
they're they are super They could endure more than any other person there so
or creature there for that matter. So that's cool, you know what,
it would be interesting as well, I know, like you know, the
ship's sail. Then we can't have this, especially after the last start,
but it would have been cool the future Trunks on a team. Oh yeah,
hey bro, how many times have we bailed you by a year?
Like that conversation? Yeah, I like that conversation of like who could have
been on the team and Trunks future Trunks is a great example of him coming
not because he has trouble in his own world, but because he wants to
help this world, right, That would be an interesting twist. And Supreme
in the chat also mentioned cell like them bringing cell which would have been interesting.
But yeah, unless he got like a golden cell form, or unless
he could work as well with everyone as you know, some of the other
characters probably would have been a bit overkilled to bring back another villain, but
I mean it could have been interesting. We'll see if because Super is not
dead. Actually, I don't think we've announced this on the podcast yet.
And Ray, I don't know if you know, but they announced, if
I could believe the thumbnail and titles of YouTube videos, they announced another Dragon
Ball Super Movie. So, like I mentioned, there's a Broly one.
Now they're announced another one's gonna come out, So the story is not over.
The manga is still going, and who knows, we may have a
resurrection of Cell in some way, so we'll see what happens. Oh there
you go. Yeah, no, Cell would have been interesting, I think.
But as Ultimate Cell says in the chat, he mentioned selling Gohan,
bro Sell and Gohan like the dynamic between them, I'm pretty hilarious. Yeah,
absolutely, I mean there are some crazy dynamics think about, like Krillan
and Freezer. Oh yeah, oh yeah, Kyllan and Freezer is a funny
one because Freezer probably doesn't care about him, he just knows he killed him
in something, but Krillan's like terrified. M h yeah. As a side
note as well, speaking of well not selling uess, but we mentioned Boo,
It's interesting how UB was mentioned at some point within this arc. I
forget exactly where, but that's something that's kind of dropped and was never mentioned
in Super at all, Like we knew about at the end of Zube,
like Goku goes off to train with Ube. But this is like the first
time in all of Super that Ub has mentioned how there's like this kid fighter
out there that you know is supposed to be will grow to be a really
powerful fighter, and he's the reincarnation of that. That's another good option.
It's just they said he wasn't like old enough yet, but yeah, it's
another good option that or a good idea that could participate in this tournament.
And yeah, think about the ending we saw on Dragging a Ball Z and
how all of this is happening before that. And it's interesting to see how
as Dragon Ball Super moves forward, the ending of Dragon Ball Z kind of
starts to make more and more sense. It's it's cool how they how they
still accept that ending and they shape the story in a way where it could
lead to that with all of these cool power ups and stuff included. So
pay attention to that as we move forward through Dragon Ball Super. Yeah,
No, very true, because that's something that when I watched the end of
Z, I was kind of like, what, that's how you're gonna that's
where we're gonna end things. It's just gonna be Goku leaving his family and
going to train with his little boy he's never met. Oh my god,
Zo yourself, the way you frame things, but it's true. Yeah,
it's like, hey, chee chee, sons, I'm gonna go train with
this kid over here and face out. I don't know what I'll be back,
like, we'll see you. And also I don't know if he knows
this at the time I'm trying. Yeah he I guess with super he would,
but I don't know if he mentions it at the time of Z.
But like, he's a reincarnation of Boo, So you know, here's this
guy who tried to kill him. I know it's a reincarnation, but it's
just weird that he just drops everything and leaves. I mean, I mentioned
how Z. I thought the best way to end it now we'll see when
I see everything in its entirety was when Goku dies and he's kind of like,
yeah, don't wish me back, just you know, Yeah, that
would have been Yeah, but again like oh yeah, perhaps that would have
been a better way to end it, but again it's not worth not getting
all this stuff. Yes, very true, so we always got to keep
that in mind. Um. Yeah, the cell kind of wrapped up nicely
that arc, and it kind have been like a nice ending, but I'd
rather get all of these new dynamics, right, the Vegeta moments, the
comedy moments, the new transformations. And if you want, you know,
if someone just absolutely hates Dragon Ball super Like, you don't have to watch
it, right, you could accept like cell ending and that's it. But
for us who just want more and want more of these characters, I wouldn't
trade Dragon Ball Super right, I wouldn't trade all of these new episodes.
Yeah. And I wonder you're talking about speaking about the characters. I wonder
if the tournament will continue with you know, each episode being a certain character
shining. I mean, we barely get anything so far from Freezer and Vegeta,
so I want to see what happens with them. Yeah. So,
and they're big, big players, right, Massaroshi did show that he was
able to resist some female charms, which was big for him. But yeah,
yeah, keep keep your eyes on Freeze on Magita because they are heavy
hitters and they have yet to flex, so this should be interesting. Keep
your eye on Top, which is the leader of the Gern team. Keep
your eye on Garen like those guys. Man, Oh, they're so interesting
right now. Can't wait to see And although I watched it like I don't
remember exactly how everything wraps up. I don't remember every single fight that happens,
So I'm looking forward to seeing how this all you know, ends up.
Yeah, No, it is. Yeah, and it's interesting with Top
two you talked about this is kind of the first time you could argue you
could frame Goku as a sort of villain, and Top actually does at one
point and the narrator calls it out the first time Goku's been I'm considered a
village within all of dragon Ball. Yeah, and that's hilarious because they're playing
on that, although I don't know if that statements accurate, but they're playing
at that whole. These guys are superheroes in their own world. They're kind
of making fun of the superhero genre as like parodying it in a cool way.
And yeah, obviously for them, they talk about justice and all that,
and they want to take down Goku, who is like the one debut
as responsible for all of this suffering and stuff like that. So it is
interesting. Obviously, there are certain cases where been in dragon Ball and their
universe. You know, Goku, I guess you know, it depends how
you frame it. But let's say if he became a giant ape, obviously
he'd be the antagonist and that little thing when he made stupid decisions, you
could say he wasn't helping the universe. But it brings the focus how Dragon
Ball Z is different from those shows where the main character prioritizes justice above all
else or saving the world, because Goku has always prioritized almost his saying blood
and wanting to fight and getting excited with fighting, and so now that we
have this contrast, it definitely makes sense that some people would view Goku as
this villain because he's so careless and he's willing to almost sacrifice anything, including
the safety of his family, for a chance to fight someone strong. Yeah.
No, that is an interesting contrast right there, Um, something I
was known kind of jumping around. It's interesting too, how at this moment,
you know where we are in the arc, there's not unlike other tournaments,
there's not that like one clear enemy like you know how we usually get
within all the different arcs, there's that one clear villain likes it's not everyone.
Yeah, now everyone's just trying to like fight for themselves and like if
anyone's the enemy, you could say it's Zeno, But he's not a conventional
enemy, right, Yeah, Like obviously it's pretty evel, Like you could
say it's evil erase the entire universes, but the dude is so naive and
innocent that you can't really call him a villain, even though depending on how
you say what he's doing, like it sounds like a villain. He's going
to erase all the universes unless they fight the way he wants them to fight,
and even if they don't win, they're still gonna die. Like it's
you know, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, so, but I don't view
as that because no, because he's not even a threat to Like he's a
threat if he erases the universe, but he's not a threat to the actual
tournament. He's not jumping in the ring and he's going to knock people off
the ring. So that's the interesting thing. Even though he's super strong,
they've set it up that he's not the kind of character who will ever do
martial arts probably right, so he's never going to be a competitor to Goku.
He could just like erase him at a moment's notice. Yeah yeah,
no, I mean interesting arc for sure, And like how they had iPads
too. Yeah, did you notice they'd say god Tube. Did they say
it as a dob? I feel like they said god pad or something.
Okay, but oh yeah god Tube as in another thing okay, yeah,
yeah, yeah the Godpad. Yeah they have like a god tuber. Yeah
exactly, No, that was that was right though as fuck. But it's
interesting to see how they're incorporate all this stuff even though technically in the Dragon
ball Z timeline, like they shouldn't be this far ahead. But it's interesting.
Yeah, it's like an each like the Simpsons or Family Guy. How
no one's aged yet the new technology has come in, like you just play
along with it because Yeah, it's funny how they have those reverses, like
the one point they say, oh I sell freeze on like highlights of him
on god Tube. Yeah, just like it'll be interesting if, like eventually
Apple comes out with a god Pad. Yeah, probably too sacrilegious, but
who knows. We'll see what happens. Anything else we want to cover before
we wrap up this episode, Ray, I don't think so. I mean
we're almost there. Pretty exciting to think we're almost there. Yeah, we're
almost there. Next episode is going to be watching all the way through to
the end of the dragon Ball Super anime, not counting the broy movie.
We'll save that for later. So just to tell you guys the exact episode,
even though it's pretty straightforward. You just watch until the end of the
series, but episodes one hundred and five to one hundred and thirty one,
the end of the Tournament of Power, the end of dragon Ball Super Anime,
and the we'll get to see what Garring's all about. We'll get to
see what Tops all about. We'll get to see if as Rays, assuming
there will be some kind of save the Day moment with the dragon Balls,
or if those universes will just remain erased. So until next time, see
us Space Cowboys Bay