Second hour of the program. Glad you're with us on this Tuesday morning.
Max Bulman of the Athletic will join us at eight thirty five. We'll talk
to red Wings and perhaps the disappointment people have with free agencies. Look,
it just began, all right, but there are certain things teams need to
address. We don't have to wait till the off season every time, or
I should see I shouldn't say the off season, but the non free agent
part of a season to judge whether or not a team has addressed its needs.
Okay, some point Tigers in the off season, we didn't feel like
they addressed their needs. I thought it was still going to be good enough.
I really did, because I expected certain things from certain players that I
haven't received. Nor have you received that type of production. You expected progression
for particularly Riley Green, which we've seen some in Torkalsen. I think that's
the biggest source of disappointment, if you will with the Tigers, I think
no, but part of it, part of it. First of all,
Riley Green's a player, Okay, there's no doubt about that. I mean,
I don't know if you if you watch the Tigers, you watch Riley
Green he's legit. Is he going to be an All Star? I don't
know, okay, but he's an everyday guy and he's a very I think
he's a really good player. But you know, the outfields are crowded for
All Stars. You'd love to see him make that leap. Maybe it comes
next year. Okay, we need to keep everything in perspective. He's never
played one hundred games in his career because he's still a young player. Yes,
I expected Torklsen, not necessarily to exceed thirty one and ninety four,
but to get close to it. Thirty home runs, Yes, is that
asking a lot? Not necessarily, but I think, you know, in
driving him runs and so on and so forth, I expected, I don't.
I never expected him to hit for a high average. I expected a
high slug. I expected home runs, and I expected RBIs and I think
that's a fair expectation. He has not done that. He has failed in
that regard, and that's been disappointing. I expected in the off season for
this team to address its flipping meeds and it didn't do it. We said
this yesterday. O cams bat in two twenty six. Orshelle has got an
OBP of under three hundred. My aid has got an era that is unacceptable.
Miller has an ERA of over six. All those things, Okay,
I'm not going to rehash yesterday, but I'm not going to go deep into
the woods on that stuff. But that's those part of it. So yeah,
I mean there's certain players I expected more of. Some guys. You
know who they are. Okay, you know who Carson Kelly is. You
know who Jake Rogers is. Was there a deflation for me with Javier Bias.
Absolutely. I didn't expect him to have a Francisco Lindoor Cleveland Indians type
season, but I expected more than this, better than one eighty four.
I think that's fair to say. And don't kid yourself. He's been quote
end quote injured for a while now. There's a reason for that. They've
been working on things with him. So yes, it's all part of it.
What the biggest reason is for this team's inability to gain some consistency all
of that. We can blame players all we want, and they deserve it
because they're the ones on the field of play, but they have not been
put in a situation to succeed because or we have not seen a team that's
been put in a position to succeed because of the failures of its front office.
You can text us it's sports rated to twenty one thousand. Let's get
to some texts. Yeah, that's a decent segue into one that we got
this morning. That just kind of lays it out there. It just says,
the Tigers current record of thirty eight and forty six projects to a season
ending seventy three and eighty nine, five fewer wins than last year. And
shep yesterday you talked at length about expectations and why that can bite you in
the butt so hard. We were talking during one of the breaks. The
Tigers over under preseason win total was eighty and a half. They might not
get to seventy five. That's a good point by the Texter, so you
play it out the rest of the year. Seventy three wins, Oh my
goodness. You know who that is from a year ago anyway. That's the
Los Angeles Angels, and that was a team that was one of the biggest
disappointments. You know, you had Trout, you had Otani. That's horrid.
Seventy three wins. I didn't I guess I never did that type of
math thinking back two years ago, twenty twenty two, how many how many
wins do they have? Sixty six? I believe sixty six, another year
under five hundred, and here's where we're going to get in the off season.
You can hear it, can't you. You know, we're building,
we're growing our farm system. Our young guys are getting valuable experience, they're
getting better. Just grab the shovel, sticking in the dirt, throw it
over your shoulder, same stuff, over and over over again. And to
the Texters point Chep, I mean, it's not like this is It's not
like they're just not only progressing, they're moving backwards. They're on pace to
win five fewer games than last season. That's a step backwards. Spencer Torkelsen
being sent down before the fourth of July is a step backwards. Javier Bajias
hitting one eighty four is a step backwards. I'm okay with a guy being
sent down, especially a young player. We know all the all the guys
that's happened to. Okay, it happened to Max Scherzer for crying out loud.
Okay, it's happened to Alec Manoah, who is an All Star.
It's happened to a lot of players who have been who have struggled to make
the adjustment to reach the next level. All right, And there was somebody
recently that I saw was sent down to the miners, and it was a
little bit of a surprise because of what they've accomplished. It happens in Atlanta
quite a bit. Okay, we've seen it. People remember Jordan Walker,
a young player with the Cardinals who was lights out when he first got up,
and then he was sent down, and then the next year he didn't
even make the team out of spring training. So it's bound to happen.
I don't have an issue with that as much as a how long it's been
for him down there, and B the fact that you're getting virtually no production
from everybody else on this team. Now. I know people sometimes feel like
I dive too much into the power numbers. Okay, Jef, you talk
too much about home runs, Listen. I think it's real. I think
it's really important to have guys in your lineup who can force pitchers to pitch
a certain way or pitch around you. And this might not be a fair
comparison, but I want you to think of this. The Detroit Tigers as
a team have seventy six home runs seventy six that is among the worst in
baseball. That ranks twenty fifth. The Baltimore Orioles alone hit sixty in the
month of June, sixty one month. The Orioles, one of the younger
teams in baseball, hit sixty homers, just sixteen fewer than you have all
season. That tells you something, doesn't it. Yeah, And that's a
team that not that these Vegas over underwin totals are gospel, but that's a
team that's meeting in maybe exceeding expectations. Their number was ninety and a half.
Yeah, I think that's low. I mean considering what they did a
year ago, right right in the division. But look at their players,
and I love them, But look at the players. These are young kids.
Look at what Gunner Henderson is doing with twenty six bombs. Adlie Rushman
taxing position with fifteen homers, Anthony Santandaer twenty two bombs. Quick time out
more of your texts. On the other side, this is ex'es and bros.
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the hour, Welcome back on a Tuesday, Max Boltman of the Athletic will
join us at eight thirty five, excited to talk about the progress. If
you think there is progress for the Detroit Red Wings. With the first day
of free agency now in the rearview mirror and what they did and what you
liked or didn't like about it. In the meantime, we welcome the phone
calls on the Meyer Hotline eight sixty six eight three eight forty eight forty three.
We also welcome the texts Sports Radio to twenty one thousand, gets you
in and into the conversation. We're going to get to that, for sure,
we'll get to our techs. But I was thinking about this yesterday about
some athletes who are now retired and where they last played. And the reason
I brought this up is because of Klay Thompson. Not that he's being retired.
He just signed a three year contract with the Dallas Mavericks. He goes
from Golden State, where his number will be retired, to Dallas. Not
that it's an odd situation, not that it's weird to see him play in
Dallas, but it is a little strange. It'll take some getting used to
to see him play for a different team. So I wondered, I thought
to myself, who are some guys or ladies who finish up with a team
you didn't think or can't remember, or might surprise you to find out this
is indeed where they did play their final game. So let me get to
some texts because there are some associated with this, Trent. Let's bang out
the rest of these texts and then we'll dive into this topic. Yeah,
we've got someone trying to offer a couple examples. They say, Aaron Rodgers
with the Jets. We'll see how that hands out. Lance Paris with the
Phillies, although we checked and it was actually the Pirates and Blue Jays who
Paris finished with. Michael Jordan with the Phillies. He signed with the Phillies
right after the Tigers. Okay, in nineteen eighty seven, I believe was
his first year with the Phillies because the Tigers won the Division and went to
the World Series in nineteen eighty seven. And then wasn't Lance Parrish behind the
dish? So he went to the Phillies. Then he went to the Angels.
They were then known as the California Angels. Then, believe it or
not, Seattle, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Toronto is how he ended his Major
League nineteen year career. Interesting anyway, go ahead, Michael Jordan with the
Wizards. That's probably one of the most famous ones. M HM when people
talk about athletes winding up in places you never thought you'd see them. But
shep, I want to draw a quick comparison to a Detroit athlete. I
think Klay Thompson in Dallas would be similar to Joe Dumar's finishing his career somewhere
else, because you know, it's one of your greats and your franchise histories,
won championships there, and then in the twilight of his career, he
just kind of it doesn't really look right, you know what I mean?
Yeah, no, it makes sense. I'm going to give you a few
that I've forgotten and I think are some of the most unique and odd ones
ever. Okay, and then maybe you've got a couple for me. So
the Jordan one's a good one, although that's one I knew because I remember
going to the Palace and watching him play there as a member of the Washington
Wizards. But let me give you a couple here a chem Elijah one Raptors
Huh Toronto, Toronto, Yeah, twelve time all start with Houston and ended
his career in Toronto, a team that finished just above five hundred, and
he only averaged seven points and six boards. So that's one of them.
Another one that I had forgotten was frank O Harris, who was a member
of the four Super Bowl champions Steelers teams draft out out of Penn State,
was like three hundred and sixty three yards, shy of passing Jim Brown's all
time rushing record and held out for more money. The Steelers release him and
he goes to Seattle, which I had completely forgotten. And then one more,
and it's Emmitt Smith. Emmitt Smith known as the old time leading rusher
in NFL history, thirteen years with the Cowboys, which is almost unheard of
as a as a running back. He finished his career in Arizona, and
I had forgotten that one, and actually had a decent year in two thousand
and four before hanging it up where he rushed for almost a thousand yards and
nine scores. So those are just a couple that come to mind. I
could bore you with one more, but not many people know who this guy
is. You should if you know baseball, but Harming Killebrew, who was
made famous with the Minnesota Twins and the Washington Senators Senators before them became the
Twins. A guy who had five hundred and fifty nine homers in his career,
finished his career in Kansas City. So those are the ones that surprised
me most. I don't want to steal all the thunder because I'm sure there's
people out there who have other suggestions, but those are a few that come
to mind for me any more. For you, Trent Joe Montana, that's
one that I thought of. I obviously wasn't around to watch that, but
that one season with the Chiefs, is that correct? I think it was
two two, And I'll never forget. This is way back in the day.
I actually taped it. I taped Montana against Elway, Chiefs against Broncos
on Monday Night football, and it was spectacular. You know how there's certain
things where you go, oh, man, I can't wait for this to
happen, and then it lets you down. Well, when I was a
kid, I couldn't wait for Leonard and Hearns never let me down. Well,
watching Montana play against Elway on Monday night football in Kansas City, Chiefs
and Broncos did not let me down. It was phenomenal. Now, in
case people were wondering, Steve Young took over the Niners, I believe it
was ninety one and then Montana knew the writing was on the Paverbia Wall left
in ninety three to play for Kansas City for a first round pick. Young
state On went to a Super Bowl, was MVP Montana to Kansas City to
the AFC Championship Game, but lost to Buffalo. I think he was Buffalo,
but I think he spent two years there. I think it was.
I could be wrong. I'll have to double check that. Anybody else for
you, Well, we got a textter that says Alan Iverson and Alan Iverson
technically finished his career with the Sixers. He did come back for one more
season, nine to ten. But at your points, well taken. I
mean him in a Grizzlies uniform, in a Piston's uniform. As we know,
it didn't look right. And I also think shep there's a couple examples
of this that we might be see happening in real time, like Chris Paul
signing with the Spurs the other day. Yeah, that was kind of a
one off. And I mean, just to circle back on what our Texters
said, Aaron Rodgers with the Jets, if they don't break through and do
anything, I mean, he's forty years old. That might be one in
twenty years we look back on. Yeah, those are good ones. The
Allen Iverson one. I remember him going back to Philly. It's kind of
like I think Ken Griffy Junior, who you know, went to Chicago or
went to I should say Cincinnati, went to Chicago, but he ended up
signing with Seattle at the very end because that's where he started, right,
So that's one. What about Prince Fielder with the Rangers, given how abruptly
that ended with his injuries. Yeah, that's a really good one. That's
a really good one. I had forgotten that. The way, by the
way, Montana was two years in Kansas City. Okay, Johnny Unidis again,
you're way too young. San Diego Chargers, right, he was with
the Colt for seventeen years and then they trade him to San Diego. Okay.
And then of course Joe Namath this is an easy one. But he
finished his career with the Rams, no knees left whatsoever. So those are
some really good ones. Those are iconic. Guy Willie May's obviously with the
Mets. Those are some iconic ones. Phone number on the Meyer hotline is
eight sixty six eight three eight forty eight forty three. You can text the
program Sports Radio to twenty one thousand. Max Boltman of the Athletic is going
to join us at eight thirty five to talk about the Red Wings free agent
moves early on and overall thoughts on where they're headed. As we continue on
a Tuesday morning across the great state of Michigan. Six on Axis and Bros.
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I'm Matt Shepherd. Trent Bellly is our producer. Give us a call on
the Meyer Hotline eight sixty six eight three eight forty eight forty three, you
can text the program sports Radio to twenty one thousand. Don't forget about our
poll question today. We ask you it's regarding free agency. Who's had the
better free agent signing period? Has it been the Red Wings, the Pistons
or neither. You can vote as often as you like. Shortly we will
remind you of yesterday's poll question and give you the results as well, since
we have a poll question for you every single day. Max Boltman of The
Athletic very opinionated piece in The Athletic yesterday regarding what the Wings have done or
maybe more importantly, what they haven't done to address their needs. So we'll
get to that coming up. I know we've got some more techs. Trent
fire Away. This goes back to yesterday's discussion about Kid Cunningham with the extension.
He says, I'll say this about Kaid, congratulations on the extension,
but he'll get no pass from me if they only win fourteen games next year
and he decides to sit the last three weeks of the season for a so
called injury. Good one, really good one. I think that frustration is
well founded. Yeah, I think it's absolutely the only thing I would caution
you is that it may not be Caid Cunningham making that decision, right,
Okay, So I don't want to blame the player when the organization is telling
him to sit. You follow Yeah, okay, so I felt the same
way. I talked about that at the end of the season. My frustration
was that I feel like, look, look, if you're going to tell
me if Caid Cunningham is your best player, and I think I can deduct
that for myself, and it's true, but you've got an eighty two game
slate and he's playing sixty two games. You want to rest him at the
beginning of the year every once in a while, Okay, I get it.
I think I hate the load management bs that we've accepted. We've come
to acknowledge when it first happened in the NBA, and I think Popovich did
it when San Antonio because he's the smartest guy in every room he walks into.
But I do believe that when it first happened, people were pissed.
I'm spending money. I want to see Duncan and Parker and Jenobili, and
you're going to rest these guys what I pay eighty dollars for then more teams
started to do it, and rather than fight it, the league embraced it.
And now they've gone back and they've gotten a little bit more strict with
it. But that's only because you, the fan were tired of it.
You thought it was wrong, you thought it was bull crap. And I'll
tell you this, it's about all these sports, all right. I've traveled
with all of them, I've called them all, I've been around them all.
It's not easy. I understand that. No one's cleaning it is.
Stop with the whole back to back stuff. Baseball plays one hundred and sixty
two games, twice as many as basketball, twice as many as hockey.
They'll have stretches where you have nineteen games in a row. And I know
it's a different physicality. I know that, but you're still getting up,
getting ready mentally and physically preparing. And I would argue mentally, baseball is
much more challenging physically. Basketball and hockey are more demanding. You're not playing
nineteen games in a row. You're playing back to back twenty times a year.
Okay, And again I'm not belittling it, not saying it's easy.
I know it's difficult, but the whole load management is crap. I used
to understand it way back in the day. If you're telling me this,
we're gonna have load management for el Jim Baylor and John Halichek, I get
it. These guys are on private planes that are incredibly comfortable, everything you
could possibly want. Here's what happens. You play the game, you meet
the media, you take a shower. It's not like you're packing your bag.
Okay, somebody's there to pack up all the stuff that you need and
load it onto a truck that then gets put onto a plane, a private
plane. You jump on a bus, you get on the plane. You
can either sleep, you can do whatever. You show up the next day.
Sometimes it's really early in the morning. I get it. You're staying
at a five star hotel. You go to sleep the next day. Oftentimes,
if it's a back to back, that practice that morning shoot around can
be optional, but just to get the blood flowing a little bit. You're
back, you're you're grabbing lunch, you're resting up, and you're going to
play and then you get the next day off, usually on a back to
back again challenging, but stop with the whole Oh sorry, we got to
rest him, so he's not playing at all today. Sixty two games for
Kate Cunningham, who's a young man by the way, he's twenty two years
old. Well, you have to you know, I understand he's going to
learn how to take care of his body. These are different things that we
oftentimes overlook taking care of your body, how to rest, when to get
your replenishments, all that stuff. Okay, you're going to learn on that,
but stop with the load management. You got to have twenty not that
he had twenty nights off from load management because he was legitimately hurt at some
point, but at the end of the year he could have played. Yeah,
organization chose not to. Now was that to try and get a better
percentage of pingpong balls to get the first overall pick. I don't know.
I'm not going to sit there and tell you that it is when I'm not
convinced of it. Well, for the record, if that was the case,
didn't work out for you, you got number five right. Doesn't mean
you shouldn't ever do it again, but it doesn't mean it should be the
reason that you're going to do it in the first place. But I just
get tired of the whole load of management stuff. It kind of drives me
crazy. But I think the texter is dead on, man. I mean,
you want to play, okay, you want to be the guy,
then act like the guy. And I could sit here and try to talk
to you about being all tough and all that other stuff, and hey,
you know what, this is what real guys do. They play through injuries.
I'm not telling you to jeopardize your career. I'm just saying you have
got there. There comes a point in time where a young guy wants to
be the guy, wants to be the leader of his team. You want
to be the leader of your team. Here's what you say to the management.
I'm playing. I'm not dressing in street clothes. I'm not wearing my
favorite sweatshirt here today on the bench. I am playing today. And that's
all there is to it. Chef, We've got a texter who completely agrees
with you. They say leaders don't sit. Whoever it is that tells them
to right. Let me just get you used this example earlier, so this
is the reason I'm going to bring it up. Joe Dumars Joe Dumars eighty
two seventy nine, eighty two, sixty nine, injured seventy five, eighty
eighty two, seventy seven. He's playing every day. He was twenty two.
Kate Cunningham's now twenty two. Joe Dumars played eighty two games. That's
his rookie year. Okay, I'm not sure. I don't remember all his
career, but he's thirty three playing seventy nine games. We got guys in
this league, and I'm trying to take a shot at Cad cunnyam because I
like him, I do, But we got guys in this league where we're
sitting here getting them a free pass, and they're playing two thirds of the
season. How are you supposed to learn what it takes to get through a
grueling season and then the playoffs. By the way, if you're not going
to play during the regular season. Kate Cunnam sixty four games is rookie year,
twelve games obviously injured out for the year sixty two. When you reach
the postseason, think of how many wins you need to reach the mountaintop.
That's the goal, right, There's different goals for athletes. First, what
do you want? You want to get a scholarship to a Division One program.
Then you want to be a starter or maybe as a freshman, I
want to play. Of course it's different now, it's more like I demand
to play. I want to play. Okay, Then I want to be
a starter. Then I want to be an All Conference selection. I want
to be an All American. I want to be a first round draft pick.
I want to make an NBA camp. I want to make an NBA
team. I want to be a player on that NBA team. I want
to be a starter on that NBA team. I want to be an All
Star on that NBA team. I want to lead that team to a championship.
Different goals, all of them, with the bar being Risen cool.
Love it. How are you supposed to get to the championship if you're playing
sixty games a year? Learn what it takes to be successful. One of
the best stories ever Wayne Gretzky Kevin Lowe. Back in the late seventies early
eighties, they lose to the New York Islanders seven games. They're walking out
of the arena, thinking they're going to hear nothing but great celebration, and
they walk by the Islanders locker room and they see them all with their heads
down, towels are on their neck, and they are just exhausted. This
according to Gretzky, and he says, we looked at each other and said,
this is what it takes everything you've got. That's why a lot of
people feel like in order for you to win, you need to lose first.
I'm not buying into that. I've never bought into that, but that's
what many people believe. How are the younger players for the Pistons or any
team supposed to learn what it takes to be successful ultimately reach the ultimate goal
of a championship If you're not finding a way to play through exhaustion and pain
and struggles on that front, maybe this could be a pull question down the
road as we get closer to Piston season. But I want to know.
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. How many games do you
want to see k play to the point where you'll you'll be like, oh,
right, that was a successful season, that was a step in the
right direction. Seventy seventy two. Yeah, more than that for me,
More than that. Career high is sixty two games. Correct, career high
is sixty four games his rookie year. Okay, it's played sixty two this
past season, seventy seven would probably be the minimum for me. Okay,
that's just me, Okay, I mean, I'm not saying I'm right,
That's just what I would like to see. Who do you consider? This
goes a little bit deeper, and perhaps too deep, But who do you
consider to be a tough son of a gun who you want to see play
and is willing to play on a regular basis? Who's that guy? Who
is You're not getting him out of that lineup? Now, I've been a
big I think Jason Tatum is slightly underrated. I like Jaylen. Okay,
I don't know their complete history from a an injury standpoint, right, they
each played seventy games or more. Again, may have been injured, so
I'm just using them as example. They may have been injured at some point
so they weren't gonna play. But if you're gonna be successful, if you
feel like your team, I don't care if they're they're ready to win or
not. Your team has got to follow the lead of its best player.
Could you is Detroit going to turn it around in a year and be the
Oklahoma City Thunder? Hell No, But here's what I know, Oklahoma City
doesn't win what fifty seven games this year unless Shay Gilgess Alexander is ready to
play on a regular basis, and he played seventy five games. I think
seventy is kind of that mark the Mendoza line, if you will. I
mean, Lebron James just played seventy one games last season, that's his most
in a Lakers uniform. And he's almost forty. Yeah, yeah, thirty
nine, right, chat Holmgrim's eighty he played eighty two. He's a rookie.
What's wrong with that? Yeah, We've got Michal Bridges who's never missed
the game in his career, just traded to the Knicks. There you go,
Well, there's your iron man. Yeah. So I think, guy
you love, I think seventy is a very reasonable ask. That's my goal
for Kate. If you wanted a bit higher, I understand twelve games off.
You're telling me you're okay with your best player missing twelve games. That's
a lot of games. How about this. It's not necessarily that I'm okay
with it, but I think that's what we're gonna get. I think they're
gonna load manage them twelve games. Okay. I just think that's the arrow
we're in. That's what we're gonna get to your point. Jalen Brunson played
seventy seven for New York, which was my number. I think not you,
but I think people in general we've accepted, willing to accept almost as
a compromise. Here you go, this is what I want. Can you
just give me this place where for me it's like you know what, and
take the money out of it. But this is your job. It was
Larry Bird's job too, eighty two, eighty two, seventy seven, seventy
nine, seventy seven, seventy nine, eighty eighty two, seventy six.
Why is it okay for Larry Bird from seventy nine through ninety two to do
that in his career? Why can he, at age thirty three, plays
seventy five games. But we've got people their young twenties who tell us all
the time this is a dream come true. I'll accept the load. Management.
I'm not saying Jalen Duran can say that to management. I'm just saying,
if your kid cutting hand, if you're a leader, show me that's
what I want. Now, I use I'm using you know, I'm using
Hall of Fame players Joe Dumar's Larry Bird. Probably not fair, okay,
but that's the standard. That's the goal, right, well, I mean
the key Cunningham's the number one overall pick you hope he can be that type
of player someday. Right. This is what people tell me all the time,
that this is what they wanted. This is what we hear all the
time. This is who you should be. You're too young for this guy.
But there was a guy when I was a kid who I loved watching
play even though he was on arrival. His name was Sidney My. It's
a hell of a player. He's a Hall of Fame player. He's a
five time All defensive player Sydney Moncreep with Milwaukee seventy seven, eighty eighty,
seventy six, seventy nine, seventy seven, eighty And not only is he
playing every night, he's guarding the other team's best player every Selene right on.
I only bring up his name because he's he's one that a lot of
people may not know of, even though he's a Hall of Fame player.
It's a hell of a player, primarily defense, but he was out there
every flipping night, and we're accepting players who play sixty and sixty four games
as it's okay. We complain that in Little league sports that you get a
trophy for participating, and then our mindset is, well, I'm okay if
you miss a dozen to fifteen games. What what are you talking about?
How can you say that? Got? A texter says one word soft oo
fighting words. Yeah, you want to upset an athlete? Use that word?
Is it soft or is it compliance? Because maybe the organizations are soft,
not as much as the player. It's a good topic. We'll talk
with Max Boltman at the bottom of the hour eight thirty five coming up here
on XES and Bros. We step aside for a quick time out. We
always look forward to your texts and the Meyer hotlines open for eight sixty six,
eight three, eight forty eight forty three. This is x'es and Bros.
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