WEBVTT

1
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:34.960
Welcome back to The Path Went Chile
for part two of our series about the

2
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.960
disappearance of Trevor Deely. Robin,
do you want to catch everyone up and

3
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.840
what we talked about in our previous
episode. Well, I believe this is

4
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.399
the first case we've ever covered on
The Path Went Chile which took place in

5
00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.240
Ireland, and it's probably the most
famous missing person's case in the history of

6
00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.840
that country. Trevor Deely was twenty
two years old and he worked as an

7
00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:59.359
IT specialist at the Bank of Ireland
to Asset Management headquarters in Dublin, and

8
00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.920
on the evening of December the seventh, two thousand, he went out to

9
00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.640
a Christmas party with his coworkers,
which involved doing a lot of drinking and

10
00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:11.040
hopping back and forth between different places. But because there was a taxi strike

11
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:14.799
going on in Dublin at that time
and it was pouring rain, after the

12
00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:19.920
party ended, Trevor decided to walk
to the Bank of Ireland Asset Management headquarters

13
00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:23.840
in order to pick up an umbrella
for his walk back to his apartment,

14
00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.439
and even though it was three point
thirty in the morning, one of his

15
00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:30.799
coworkers led him inside. He took
the umbrella and then started walking back home,

16
00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:34.959
but he never made it to his
apartment and it would be an entire

17
00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:38.359
weekend before anyone even noticed that he
was missing. And the two clues they

18
00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:44.359
had is when they looked at CCTV
footage of Trevor's last known movements. At

19
00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.400
three point thirty when he first arrived
at his workplace, there was a man

20
00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.439
standing outside the gates who was known
as the Man in Black, who briefly

21
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.959
chatted with Trevor before he went inside
before he walked out of the frame,

22
00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:59.359
and the last known footage of Trevor
was at four to fourteen am where he

23
00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.680
was passing buy a camera at an
ATM, But after that he just seemed

24
00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.879
to vanish without a trace and probably
never made it back to his apartment.

25
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.680
For years, the biggest lead was
a man that was known as the second

26
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:15.560
Man in Black, who was seen
passing by the ATM camera about thirty seconds

27
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:20.039
after Trevor did so. They wondered
if he might have been involved in his

28
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.919
disappearance, But only a few weeks
before we recorded this, they finally tracked

29
00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:28.960
this Man in Black down, interviewed
him and rule him out as having any

30
00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:34.560
involvement in Trevor's disappearance twenty seventeen,
an informant came forward who said that Trevor

31
00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:38.599
had cross passed with some criminal figures
on his walk home, who proceeded to

32
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:42.400
take him back to their apartment to
shoot him and then bury his body in

33
00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:45.919
a local park. But they performed
a search of it and never found his

34
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.639
remains or any other evidence to support
his story. So we're right back to

35
00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.080
square one. Trevor has been missing
for twenty three years and seemed like he

36
00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:57.560
literally just vanished into thin air,
and no one still has any idea what

37
00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:02.599
actually happened to him. So before
we do any further analysis of Trevor's disappearance,

38
00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:06.879
I wanted to take a few moments
to discuss the vacation that Trevor took

39
00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.639
during November of two thousand, which
involved traveling to Alaska for several weeks.

40
00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.560
One of his primary reasons for selecting
this destination was to visit a girl who

41
00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:20.240
lived in Anchorage, as the two
of them had previously met during a trip

42
00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:24.960
she took to Ireland. In one
particularly heartbreaking interview, Trevor's father, Michael

43
00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:30.199
Dealey, described how when he last
saw his son Trevor was so excited to

44
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.560
tell him all about his trip to
Alaska, but since Michael was in a

45
00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:36.639
rush at that time and had to
leave, he told his son to tell

46
00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.719
him all about the trip at Christmas. Of course, Trevor went missing before

47
00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.400
Christmas, so Michael has always been
regretful for blowing him off like that,

48
00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:49.439
and he always breaks down whenever he
shares this story. The details about Trevor's

49
00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.719
relationship with this girl from Anchorage are
vague, but the story goes that she

50
00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.680
had told him she was going to
be very busy during his trip and tried

51
00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.360
to dissuade him from visiting her wherever. Trevor still traveled to Anchorage anyway,

52
00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:06.240
and she apparently gave him a rather
chilli reception when he showed up. Since

53
00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:11.560
Trevor happened to go missing only two
days after he returned home, there has

54
00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:16.199
been speculation that the Alaska trip might
somehow be connected to his disappearance. What

55
00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:21.319
I've find really interesting is that Trevor
appears incredibly excited and happy to tell his

56
00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:26.920
dad how the trip went. So
even if the girl had been hesitant and

57
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:31.120
she gave him a pretty chilly reception, was it a chili reception the entire

58
00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:35.519
time. Could he have possibly met
other people who made the trip worthwhile?

59
00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:40.720
I mean, if he was happy, it sounds like he didn't go there

60
00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:44.759
and have someone mistreat him. Yeah, That's what I think as well,

61
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:48.319
is that even though Trevor's time with
the girl did not go as well as

62
00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.279
he hoped, the reaction story told
by his father made it sound that Trevor

63
00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:57.000
enjoyed the majority of the trip of
Alaska. So I don't think being kind

64
00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.079
of turned down by this girl would
have made him depressed enough in order to

65
00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.279
like take his own life or maybe
run away voluntarily. So this might have

66
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:09.399
no connection to his disappearance. And
it sounds unlikely that anybody is going to

67
00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:15.879
cross oceans in order to come after
Trevor with regards to maybe like pursuing their

68
00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:19.519
quote unquote woman or whatever. It
just seems like if something bad was going

69
00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:26.839
to happen to him in relation to
the potential relationship or entanglement with the woman,

70
00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:30.319
that it would have happened while he
was in Alaska. I know.

71
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:36.040
The GUARDI explored the possibility that Trevor
might have disappeared voluntarily because he wanted to

72
00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.439
go back to the US or something. They even traveled to Alaska to interview

73
00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.279
the girl that Trevor saw, but
it doesn't sound like she had any relevant

74
00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:50.759
information. Investigators were able to confirm
that Trevor never traveled to the US or

75
00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:56.399
any other country, as his passport
was found inside his apartment and his bank

76
00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:00.680
account had not been touched since the
night that he went missing. The main

77
00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:04.279
reason we bring up the Alaska trip
is because it's been theorized that Trevor may

78
00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:09.519
have become depressed over the fact that
his encounter with this girl hadn't gone as

79
00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:12.800
well as he had hoped, and
he decided to take his own life upon

80
00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.000
returning home. Sure, his body
was never found, but what if he

81
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:19.879
jumped into the Grand Canal and his
body was just missed during the searches.

82
00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:26.920
While it sounds like the suicide theory
has pretty much been dismissed, the last

83
00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:30.040
time Trevor saw his father, he
told him how marvelous a trip to Alaska

84
00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:35.160
had been and showed no visible signs
of being depressed. Yes, it's true

85
00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:41.920
that suicidal people sometimes disguise their pain
so that everyone is taken by complete surprise

86
00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:46.399
when they take their own life,
but if Trevor was planning to complete suicide,

87
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.439
it seems awfully strange that he would
take an extra trip back to his

88
00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:54.720
workplace in order to grab an umbrella. I don't think a person who was

89
00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.879
planning to jump into a body of
water and around themselves would be all that

90
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.920
concerned about getting wet from the rain, and minutes before he disappeared, Trevor

91
00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.720
had also left a quick voicemail for
his friend, letting him know that they

92
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:12.399
should get together that weekend. There
really were no warning signs that Trevor was

93
00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:16.399
feeling suicidal, and his family have
openly stated that they believe the whole Alaska

94
00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.319
trip was nothing more than a red
herring. I don't think you would have

95
00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.959
seen him making plans with a friend, immediate plans with a friend. It's

96
00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:27.439
not like, yeah, one day, we should catch up buddy. You

97
00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.920
know, he's actually initiating a call
saying we should hang out. And so

98
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.560
I don't see there being a real
indication of knowing you're going to exit this

99
00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:40.040
world and then making immediate plans with
a friend. I also think if he

100
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:46.079
was going to jump into this river, that he would have left behind evidence.

101
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.160
There'd be the umbrella washing up on
some shore, there'd be his clothing.

102
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:54.680
Even if his body had disintegrated,
there'd be other things that had happened

103
00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:59.800
where you would say there's some remnants
of him. I mean there were large

104
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:03.480
That umbrella had to be a large
umbrella. I just feel like something would

105
00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:09.920
have been found. But don't you
feel like with regards to say clothing,

106
00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:13.560
washing up, or shoes or something
related to him. Just as we talked

107
00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.360
about the cell phone earlier, you
have to have the right person happen upon

108
00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:20.920
items like that for them to go
and alert the authorities. You could have

109
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.759
somebody who just goes, oh,
there's a pair of pants, I'm going

110
00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.360
to take those, or they might
pay it no mind, or they may

111
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:31.320
just throw it in the garbage and
think that it's trash. Because there's areas

112
00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:35.559
around where I live in it's a
really nice area, but there's an area

113
00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:41.240
near Science World here and I used
to take my dog down there and there

114
00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:46.200
would often be clothing items down there, and I certainly wasn't calling the authorities.

115
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.240
I knew that it was sometimes a
place where homeless people would go,

116
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.919
or people would go and they would
do drugs. So you just had to

117
00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:56.039
be very careful about the areas that
we were going, but there was often

118
00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:01.120
things like that left about. So
it just takes the right p person finding

119
00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.799
those types of items and seeing the
significance behind them in order for them to

120
00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.600
actually find the evidence and give it
the attention that it deserves. And we

121
00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:13.279
also mentioned in our last episode that
President Bill Clinton was planning to make a

122
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:18.120
trip to Dublin shortly after Trevor went
missing, and they did a big security

123
00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.840
sweep of the area. And I'm
thinking that if say an American Secret Service

124
00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:24.320
agent found a cell phone or an
umbrella or a piece of clothing, they

125
00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.320
would probably just kind of ignore it
and discard it. They would be like,

126
00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.399
we're not here to investigate a missing
person's case. We're here to make

127
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.120
things secure for the president. So
it does make me wonder perhaps if they

128
00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.159
did find some evidence but just didn't
see the significance of it. I think

129
00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.440
if they found a cell phone,
they might keep that or see that maybe

130
00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.960
there could be some significance, don't
you think. Oh yeah, probably with

131
00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.600
the cell phone they would just at
least find it was belonged to, But

132
00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:54.519
something like an umbrella or clothing they
might just ignore. So now let's explore

133
00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.320
the possibility that Trevor's death was an
accident and that he might have fallen into

134
00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:03.080
the Grand Canna, the River Dodd, or some other body of water on

135
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.000
his route home and his body has
just never been recovered. He was a

136
00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:11.039
bit drunk at the time, though
not so intoxicated that he was incapable of

137
00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.600
walking home. One theory is that
since Trevor was carrying a large umbrella,

138
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.120
a strong gust of wind could have
propelled him off the bridge into the water

139
00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.639
well. The GUARDI seemed pretty convinced
that Trevor did not drown, though that

140
00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:28.080
doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't have missed
his body. But another issue is that

141
00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.840
Trevor's umbrella was never recovered either.
Since it was pretty large, you'd think

142
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.559
it would have turned up eventually,
though I guess a possible explanation, which

143
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.000
I just mentioned, is that an
umbrella could have been found during the security

144
00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.480
sweep that was done over the weekend
to prepare for President Clinton's upcoming visit to

145
00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:48.000
Dublin. Since Trevor had not been
reported missing yet, they may not have

146
00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:52.360
realized the umbrella significance and discarded it. That's true, I mean the way

147
00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.039
Jules described it too. I mean
it almost seems like a nuisance and trash

148
00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:58.360
litter at that point, when you
have things that have just been discarded.

149
00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:03.480
There were rainstorms, and you know
you'd think, Wow, some somebody either

150
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.840
forgot or left their umbrella. I'm
throwing that away to create a clean street

151
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.000
when the president arrives. So you
do have to have the right mindset,

152
00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:15.720
Jules, you're a true crime podcaster. You should be questioning every piece of

153
00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:22.320
clothing you come across. I know, it's just unfortunate that there's a strange

154
00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:31.360
kind of intersection between individuals with substance
use disorders and then this really nice area

155
00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.600
where people like to take their dogs, and so people discard lots of strange

156
00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.399
things there. And initially I used
to think it was weird, but now

157
00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.360
I like, I just don't pay
at any mind. So if I came

158
00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:48.080
across actual evidence in that area of
somebody who'd been abducted and their clothing was

159
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:52.840
left there, I would completely disregard
it. So I guess I just don't

160
00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:58.799
have the right mind right. As
you might recall, Trevor's sister, Michelle,

161
00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:03.320
attempted to call his cell phone multiple
times after he went missing. While

162
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.600
Michelle can't recall this with one hundred
percent certainty, she seems to remember that

163
00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.840
Trevor's phone did ring over the course
of the weekend and did not go straight

164
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:16.519
to voicemail until Monday the eleventh.
On the surface, this would seem to

165
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.600
indicate that the phone was functional till
then, and might rule out the possibility

166
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:26.159
that Trevor fell into some water.
During an article about this case in the

167
00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:31.440
Irish Times, one communication specialist stated
that Trevor's mobile phone would certainly have gone

168
00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.799
dead if this had happened. In
his own words, quote, if the

169
00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.720
phone was on when it went in
the water, it would be dead in

170
00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.159
seconds. The radio signals would not
penetrate more than a few inches of water,

171
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:48.000
so it couldn't ring. End quote. Of course, that might not

172
00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.799
apply to all cell phones today,
but this was the year two thousand.

173
00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.200
It's worth noting that the Dailey family
was unhappy that the Guardie did not attempt

174
00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:01.159
to do more to locate or pinpoint
Trevor's phone through its network. But whatever

175
00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:05.600
happened to his phone, I'm still
confident in believing that Trevor did not die

176
00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.879
in an accidental drowning. I definitely
don't think it was a drowning either.

177
00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:16.600
I think that someone most likely intercepted
him after he passed that ATM machine,

178
00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.399
after we see him crossing that bridge, and right before he's able to get

179
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.679
to his apartment. It almost feels
as though, in this heavy downpour,

180
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.720
someone could have easily said, there's
this guy walking. He looks young,

181
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.480
he looks kind of naive, like
he'd be invincible and he would take risk.

182
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:35.159
Let's pull over and ask if he
wants a ride. That's kind of

183
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.320
where I'm leaning. I don't know
why, I don't know what they would

184
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:43.399
have wanted with him, but it
seems like he didn't make it to the

185
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.639
apartment, and I don't think that
was on his own accord. I agree

186
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.519
with you. I just think,
like all traces have been prescribed, we've

187
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.480
got no evidence. So what is
the most likely scenario That somebody offered him

188
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.600
a ride during a taxi strike during
a downpour like four in the morning,

189
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.159
and he's most likely when to say
yes, as long as they don't seem

190
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:07.879
scary. What they wanted with him
and what their objective was is a little

191
00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:11.000
bit muddy for me. I mean, were they trying to rob him.

192
00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:18.080
Was this sexually based? Was this
just someone who was looking for a thrill

193
00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.240
kill. I'm a little confused as
to what the motive could have potentially been,

194
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.519
but there's just, again, so
many hidden variables here. Another theory

195
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:30.720
which has been pushed forward is that
Trevor was the victim of a hit and

196
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.799
run accident and whoever was responsible drove
his body away from the scene and disposed

197
00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.600
of it somewhere else. That's certainly
not implausible, as the lousy weather conditions

198
00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:45.559
that night could have caused poor visibility
for drivers, and because of the taxi

199
00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.799
strike going on at that time,
some intoxicated motorists might have felt more compelled

200
00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.559
to be on the road that night, so it's easy to see how an

201
00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.519
accident like this could happen. Some
people have ruled out the hit and run

202
00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:00.600
theory because no physical evidence was found
in the area to support it, such

203
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:05.000
as debris from a vehicle, But
remember it was a rainy night, Trevor

204
00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.039
was not reported missing for three days, and the entire area was swept over

205
00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:13.399
in preparation for President Clinton's visit.
If there was evidence of a hit and

206
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.559
run accident, it could have easily
been disposed of without anyone realizing it.

207
00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.559
So I wouldn't completely rule out the
idea of a hit and run. And

208
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.960
think about what time it was.
I mean it's past four o'clock in the

209
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.840
morning. I mean drinking is a
massive sport in Ireland, and so you

210
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:33.960
could have people who were intoxicated behind
the wheel on a rainy night, and

211
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.840
someone who's walking and crossing the street, maybe on his phone, not paying

212
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:41.200
attention. I could see where it's
a potential that he was hit by a

213
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:46.240
car. I think the biggest issue
with this case is that while we can

214
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.480
pinpoint the last sighting of Trevor on
the CCTV footage, we can't pinpoint the

215
00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.159
exact time he disappeared. Since he
was not actually reported missing until Monday,

216
00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.360
you can't rule out the possibility that
Trevor could have made it safely back to

217
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:04.320
his apartment and something happened to him
on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.

218
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:10.320
Granted, since Trevor was known for
being a reliable employee and did not show

219
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.759
up for his scheduled shift on Friday, it seems most likely that something occurred

220
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.080
before then. Now you might assume
that if Trevor made it to his apartment,

221
00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.360
he would have shown up on some
other CCTV footage. But here's the

222
00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.440
thing. The footage of him at
the ATM was originally acquired by some of

223
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.879
Trevor's friends and not the Guardye.
The Guardie were not happy about this,

224
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:37.039
but it was standard policy for that
particular bank to wipe all their CCTV footage

225
00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:41.639
after the twenty eight days had passed, So if Trevor's friends had not acquired

226
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:44.639
it in the nick of time,
the footage might have been lost forever.

227
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.440
So I can't help but wonder if
Trevor might have shown up on some other

228
00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.000
CCTV footage from that area, which
wound up being erased before anyone had a

229
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.000
chance to see it. However,
I'm inclined to think that Trevor never made

230
00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.519
it back to his apartment and something
happened to him after he passed the ATM

231
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:06.000
camera. Here's why I don't think
he made it home. I think that

232
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:10.480
the moment you are notified that this
kid went to a Christmas party at his

233
00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:15.039
place of employment or I mean with
his colleagues, that he visited his place

234
00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.519
of employment that he's seen on closed
circuit TV. I think that you say,

235
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.839
what was he wearing the last time
he was seen, and there would

236
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.039
be that description. Well, he
was wearing a red plaid shirt and a

237
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.160
green Christmas tie, or an ugly
sweater or a black jacket. Right,

238
00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.160
there'd be a description of what he
was wearing. So by the time you

239
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:38.960
put together the pieces of that night
and he's caught in a downpour. Had

240
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:45.119
he gone home Friday night and even
left shortly after he arrived home, he

241
00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.119
would have changed out of those wet, damp clothes. He would have put

242
00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.160
them in the dirty clothes, he
would have put them in the washing machine.

243
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.720
He would have put them on his
bed something. And there is no

244
00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.039
report that the clothes he was wearing
at the Christmas party wherever found. I

245
00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:02.200
mean, that would be the first
thing as an investigator, I asked,

246
00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.200
what was he wearing at the party? I'm going to his apartment and I'm

247
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.359
finding those clothes that would show me
he got there. If they didn't do

248
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.359
that, holy cow, shame on
them. So to me, it rules

249
00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:15.119
out the idea that he could have
made it home. Someone would have said

250
00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.839
the outfit he wore at our Christmas
party was in his apartment, which means

251
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.400
he made it just to play Devil's
advocate. And I actually agree with you.

252
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.160
I don't think he made it home
but just to play Devil's advocate.

253
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.279
What if he wore like a really
basic outfit, like black pants and a

254
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.519
white shirt, and he did make
it home, and he was home for

255
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:40.519
multiple days, so he managed to
wash those clothes and then hang them back

256
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.559
up, and he had multiple white
shirts and multiple pairs of black pants.

257
00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.200
You wouldn't be able to identify necessarily
the outfit that he would have been wearing

258
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:53.599
to the Christmas party unless there was
something super specific and he didn't have other

259
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.480
clothing like that, because like I
have eight million pairs of black pants and

260
00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:02.440
white shirts, so you would never
know what is missing if that was like

261
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:06.920
one outfit from my closet. I
actually went and looked up what he was

262
00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.440
wearing on the night he disappeared,
and it's described as a mustard and brown

263
00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:14.519
checkered shirt, a baite gray quarter, so that is kind of more distinctive.

264
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.920
Yes, beige gray corduroy flair trousers
and dark deck shoes with white stripes,

265
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.680
and also a green padded jacket.
And I'm assuming they never found the

266
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.359
jacket. That sounds pretty detailed,
so and that if he had arrived at

267
00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:32.000
the apartment and left his phone accord, he probably would have taken the jacket

268
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.079
with him. But sadly he was
not wearing a red Christmas sweater attacking Christmas

269
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.559
sweader like Ashley said, but still
his clothing was a bit more distinctive than

270
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:44.640
usual. So we mentioned in our
last episode that the man in black who

271
00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:48.720
was seen walking past the ATM at
four fourteen am has recently been identified and

272
00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.799
ruled out as a suspect, but
there was also a CCTV footage of a

273
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:59.000
second man in black seen hanging around
outside the BIAM headquarters earlier that night,

274
00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.359
and investigat confirmed that he is not
the same person and has still not been

275
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:08.519
identified to recap cameras captured this man
hanging around the rear gate of the BAM

276
00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:12.880
headquarters in the exact same spot,
next to a pillar for about half an

277
00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:18.559
hour before Trevor showed up there at
three thirty four am. And I have

278
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.640
no idea what would compel someone to
stand there that long in such miserable rainy

279
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.960
weather without shelter. At three o'clock
in the morning. I can't be one

280
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.559
under percent certain, but I'm assuming
that Trevor might have been the first person

281
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:36.000
to pass this guy during the entire
half hour period he was there, because

282
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.960
he immediately followed Trevor and conversed with
him outside the other rear gate. If

283
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.359
he was a homeless person, this
exchange could have been as simple as him

284
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:48.440
asking Trevor for some money or a
smoke or something. But I doubt the

285
00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.799
conversation was anything memorable, since Trevor
didn't feel the need to mention it when

286
00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.160
he spoke with Carl Pender a few
minutes later. After waiting at that location

287
00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.640
for so long, you'd almost think
the man in black was waiting for an

288
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.319
opportunity to enter BIM headquarters, But
when Trevor unlocked the gate and walked inside,

289
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:11.039
the man didn't do anything. It
seems unlikely that he was specifically waiting

290
00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:14.960
there for Trevor, because there's no
way he could have anticipated that Trevor would

291
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.680
decide to walk from the nightclub to
his workplace at that time of night.

292
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.559
So, regardless of whether or not
this man is connected Trevor's disappearance, his

293
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:29.319
presence outside BIM Headquarters is a bit
of a mystery in itself, that is

294
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:33.039
a mystery. But I do think
once the police confirmed that the man who

295
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:37.319
was dressed in black that passed behind
Trevor at the ATM machine thirty seconds after

296
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.640
Trevor passes, when they determined that
that was not the same man in black

297
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:48.160
who was waiting outside the gates of
Biam, I really kind of lost interest

298
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.039
in this person being the suspect in
his disappearance. Now it would it be

299
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.839
interesting to talk to him to see
what he knew. Absolutely, anyone who

300
00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.000
could have seen Trevor that night needs
to be spoken to. But I think

301
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.480
think it's more likely that this is, like you said, someone who might

302
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.279
have had an addiction issue, that
might have been homeless, that might have

303
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:10.559
been waiting for a ride because of
the taxi strikes, and maybe he was

304
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:11.400
saying, hey, man, is
there anywhere I can duck in to wait

305
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.039
for someone? And he's gone,
no, man, there's you know this

306
00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.039
is a secure building. You can't
come in here. Okay, thanks buddy.

307
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.519
Hey you got a smoke? I
can bumb Okay, thanks buddy.

308
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:25.960
It doesn't seem like there was a
very exciting interchange between the two or,

309
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.880
like you said, Trevor Mudd if
said something when he went in to talk

310
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:33.480
to his colleague, And is it
possible that this guy who's waiting there,

311
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.640
who's just kind of lingering or lurking, that he could have been a pim

312
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.519
Because we mentioned that there was a
lot of sex work in the area and

313
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.400
drugs, So is it possible that
he could have had one of the potential

314
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:51.920
women that he managed or whatever he
did, and they were with a client

315
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.319
or something like that, And so
that's why he was out at that odd

316
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:56.920
hour, and that's why he was
just kind of waiting in the area,

317
00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:02.240
maybe waiting for her to come back. Yeah, that's certainly possible. And

318
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:03.440
I don't think he would have said
something like, hey, man, you

319
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.440
interested in a girl or something,
because at twenty two, I think Trevor

320
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:10.000
would have run in and told his
buddy like, oh my god, right,

321
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:11.640
Trevor's been drinking, so you know, you'd be like, I just

322
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.039
got offered sex by you know,
this guy for this much money or something

323
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.079
like that. So I don't think
that it would have been something profound that

324
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.440
he mentioned to him. Could that
have been his trade and he was just

325
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.000
asking Trevor for a smoke for sure, but I don't. I definitely don't

326
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:33.680
think he was trying to get Trevor
to engage in his business endeavors because we

327
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.119
have to remember, too, the
sex work industry was entirely different in two

328
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:41.160
thousand. It wasn't online like it
is now. I'm sure there was some

329
00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:44.480
of it online, but it was
a different beast and a lot of it

330
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:49.039
was done like on street level.
So, especially for survival sex workers at

331
00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:53.440
that time, I'm sure in Dublin
you are going to be going out and

332
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:57.240
you're going to be getting that money
because you likely have an addiction to feed

333
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:02.960
or a family or whatever the situation
is. Is a choice to be out

334
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.559
at that time, but it's not
really a choice. So I mean,

335
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:10.319
I just can't really think of a
lot of other reasons, aside from homelessness

336
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:15.599
or illegal activities, that somebody would
be sitting or waiting in that area for

337
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.640
so long. But they had a
cell phone in two thousand, so that

338
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.880
leads me away from them being homeless, because not everybody had a cell phone

339
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.440
in two thousand. I also think
this is a good opportunity to clear up

340
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:33.079
a misconception which has been shared about
this case. If you search on YouTube,

341
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.559
you'll find footage of two other men
besides a man in black, who

342
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:40.319
show up in the CCTV footage by
the rear gate at three point thirty seven

343
00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:44.359
am. It turned out that those
two men in the footage were coworkers of

344
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.960
Trevor's who worked at BIAM headquarters,
and they were identified in question by investigators,

345
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:55.119
who concluded that they had no useful
information to offer. Well. Several

346
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:57.960
years ago, this case was profiled
on an episode of the British true crime

347
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:06.559
series mcinty Are Unsolved. Some confusion
ensued because when the episode presented CCTV footage

348
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:10.000
of what was supposed to be Trevor
standing outside the gate with the man in

349
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:14.359
black, they mistakenly showed the footage
of Trevor's co workers standing there at three

350
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.400
thirty seven am. So of course
people started wondering who were these other guys

351
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:23.920
standing outside the gate until the guard
he clarified that they were BIAM employees and

352
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:29.440
had no involvement in Trevor's disappearance.
But I do find it odd that there

353
00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:33.559
isn't more information out there about the
co workers. Since they stood right next

354
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.640
to the man in black, you'd
hope they might have been able to provide

355
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.079
investigators with a more detailed description of
him, but apparently not. But the

356
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.440
main reason we mentioned these two guys
is because I wonder if their appearance was

357
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.000
what prompted the man in black to
finally walk away, as he was no

358
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:53.359
longer present when Trevor left the building
at four h two am. Well,

359
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.519
we also have to remember too,
like what if these employees were like out,

360
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.519
taken a smoke break or something like
that, But it's poor rain,

361
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.000
so they'd have to be crouched under
some awning or something to that effect.

362
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:10.119
It's very bizarre that anyone would be
outside at this hour of night in the

363
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.720
rain, So these had to be
pretty quick interactions like you'd see them.

364
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:18.720
Yes, but are is anything profound
happening in those moments? I'd be very

365
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.880
shocked if someone told me, yes, that there's any significance to any of

366
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:26.559
the kind of movement that's quickly happening
around that area. Well. I have

367
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:32.160
seen some pretty wild theories put forward
and online discussions about this case, how

368
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.640
Trevor's disappearance might have been connected to
his job at the bank, and that

369
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.599
the man in black was scouting the
bank to plan some sort of heist and

370
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.319
these other two coworkers were in on
it, and then they went after Trevor

371
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.599
and abducted him to try to get
it information so they could perpetuate a heist.

372
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.599
But that just seems ridiculous and over
the top, because, like we

373
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.559
said, there's no way they could
have predicted Trevor would even been there,

374
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:56.720
and if this was a heist,
it seemed to be the laziest ice plan

375
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.880
I've ever seen. So for years, the people always debated about whether the

376
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:06.480
man outside BIAM and the man who
walked past the ATM camera were one and

377
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:08.960
the same, But we now know
for certain that's not the case. But

378
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.759
could the first man in black still
be involved in Trevor's disappearance. I guess

379
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:19.200
you could surmise that after he disappeared
from the CCTV footage outside BIM headquarters,

380
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.359
the man in black stayed out of
camera range to keep an eye on the

381
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.920
gate, and when he saw Trevor
leave, he decided to follow him across

382
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.960
Baggett Street Bridge to Haddington Road.
If the guy had set his sights on

383
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.680
Trevor, that's certainly possible, but
there's also no way he could have known

384
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.839
that Trevor was going to leave the
building less than half an hour later.

385
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.680
For all he knew, Trevor could
have remained there for several more hours.

386
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.839
And Haddington Road is a ten minute
walk away, so if this guy did

387
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.680
something to Trevor, he still followed
him for quite a while before he made

388
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.599
his move. But I'm inclined to
believe that if Trevor was attacked it was

389
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:57.039
by someone with access to a vehicle. No trace of Trevor was found during

390
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.400
the President's security sweep of the area, so whoever harmed him probably had to

391
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.440
abduct him from the area. And
I think it's safe to assume that the

392
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:08.440
man in black did not have access
to a vehicle. He was standing outside

393
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.039
in the rain for half an hour, and if he had a vehicle park

394
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.759
nearby, I don't know why he
would follow Trevor on foot for over ten

395
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.480
minutes, even though a public lee
was sent out for him to come forward.

396
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.160
The man in black may have no
idea that anyone is even looking for

397
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.279
him, or, as we saw
with the other man in black from the

398
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.599
ATM, perhaps this guy already spoke
to the Guardie several years ago, but

399
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.519
his statement has been lost in the
shuffle and is buried in paperwork somewhere.

400
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:41.759
What's really frustrating is that had other
businesses along the route been contacted by the

401
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:48.000
GUARDI, then they would have possibly
had closed circuit TV that captured him walking

402
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.079
by after that bridge where he was
last seen or picked up on camera.

403
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:59.799
So that man at his place of
employment is so far back along the path,

404
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:04.799
I just don't see him circumventing the
ATM machine and all these other things

405
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:11.559
that we know Trevor did. I'm
not interested in him. I'm just not

406
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:18.359
interested in him. He'll be happy
to hear you say that. Now,

407
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:22.799
if Trevor was a victim of foul
play, there are many potential scenarios for

408
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:27.160
what could have happened. He was
walking around in public after four am,

409
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.240
so he simply could have been the
random victim of a robbery gone wrong.

410
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.599
But then again, it was established
at Trevor's body was nowhere to be found

411
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:40.759
in the vicinity, and I'm not
sure if a random mugger who crossed paths

412
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:44.480
with Trevor and killed him would go
to the trouble of taking his body out

413
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.799
of the area to dispose of it. Well. In twenty seventeen, it

414
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.720
seemed like we might finally have got
some answers when infeman came forward to say

415
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:57.319
that Trevor was abducted at gunpoint,
placed inside a car trunk, driven to

416
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:02.359
a house, accidentally shot to death, and then buried in a wooded area.

417
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:06.640
There was good reason to think the
information might be credible, since he

418
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.359
claims he did not want any of
the reward money which was offered. But

419
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:15.079
since the subsequent excavation of the wooded
area and Chapel Lizard came up empty,

420
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.920
it seems like the Guardian no longer
believed the story. However, that doesn't

421
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.000
necessarily mean that the informant was lying. As he claimed, he was passing

422
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.680
along information which which had been shared
with him by a career criminal. So

423
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.200
it's possible that this person was the
one who was lying. Isn't it also

424
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:37.240
possible that after Trevor was taken to
this wooded area, then disposed of that

425
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.359
because it is a high place for
crime. Remember, drugs were found there,

426
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.200
Different paraphernalia and things like that were
found there. Don't you think it's

427
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:51.319
possible that people who used that as
a meeting ground, distribution ground, hiding

428
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.599
place realized Trevor's bodies there. We
cannot have a body discovered in this wooded

429
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.759
area and they moved it. Oh
yeah, I think that it's definitely a

430
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.440
possibility because it had been seventeen years
up unto that point, and we know

431
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.920
that they found some guns and like
a consignment of harrow and cocaine there during

432
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.359
the search. So someone might have
come to the idea that this is a

433
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.640
place we stashed weapons and drugs.
We don't want a dead body link to

434
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.039
this place, so move the remains
somewhere else. I mean, I wouldn't

435
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:23.799
completely discount that possibility, but let's
suppose there is some truth to the informant

436
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:29.000
story. I don't know what circumstances
could have led to Trevor being placed into

437
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:33.000
the trunk of a car and abducted
from the area. Like we said earlier,

438
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:36.920
this could have been a robbery gone
wrong, or since the alleged suspect

439
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.799
was known to be heavily involved in
the drug trade, perhaps Trevor wound up

440
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.680
stumbling across something he shouldn't have seen, such as a drug deal in progress

441
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.359
or something worse. I mean,
this was after four o'clock in the morning

442
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.079
and the same area where a sex
worker had been murdered over a drug debt

443
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:55.720
a year and a half earlier.
So I can believe Trevor might have wound

444
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.440
up in the wrong place at the
wrong time. If the informant is telling

445
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.880
the truth, than the original attention
may not have been to kill Trevor,

446
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:07.119
or rather just abduct him in order
to frighten him into staying silent about what

447
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.519
he saw. However, the suspect's
gun went off accidentally, and now that

448
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:15.200
Trevor was dead, the responsible parties
had to cover up their crime. Given

449
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:20.279
that the authorities happened to stumble across
a handgun and a cache of drugs during

450
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:23.880
their excavation of the wooded area and
Chapel Lizard, I can totally believe that's

451
00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:29.640
the location where criminals would hide things, including a body, while no trace

452
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.359
of Trevor was found. Like Ashley
said, I wouldn't rule out the possibility

453
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.640
that someone could have gotten paranoid,
dug up his remains and move them elsewhere

454
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:42.200
during the two decades since the crime
took place. I think that's a very

455
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:46.160
real possibility. And again it is
Ireland. I mean, drinking's totally different

456
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:50.880
in partings totally different than it it
necessarily is here in the US. But

457
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.160
at four am, my mom's telling
me nothing good happen after midnight, right,

458
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:59.119
So at four am, I'm sure
there's a lot of activity on the

459
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:02.200
streets. And if I'm engaged in
a criminal behavior that I'm going to get

460
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:07.519
in trouble for if discovered, If
any accident would Trevor happened, a hit

461
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:09.480
and run, I scared him and
accidentally shot him, all these things.

462
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:15.880
You can't go to the authorities for
help if you're not willing to take responsibility

463
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:19.480
for the criminal behavior you were a
part of. So if something had happened

464
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:23.039
to him, accidental or purposeful,
no one's able to get Trevor help if

465
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:28.759
they too were engaged in some kind
of deviant behavior. So overall, this

466
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:34.039
situation is a tough one. Since
the alleged suspect in Trevor's death wasn't publicly

467
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.400
named, we really don't know enough
about him to determine the plausibility of him

468
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:43.720
being responsible, and we don't have
any information about the informant to determine how

469
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:49.759
credible he is either. Frustratingly,
after such a potentially major development, it

470
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:52.839
looks like the investigation is back to
square one. So what is the most

471
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:58.359
plausible explanation for what happened to Trevor? Well, I definitely don't think it

472
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:01.319
was suicide, and I have my
out that he died by accidentally falling into

473
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:07.000
a body of water. Since the
man in black scene in the CCTV footage

474
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.000
by the ATM turned out to be
a red herring, I do think there's

475
00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:15.159
a good chance that the other man
in black scene in the CCTV footage outside

476
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:20.000
BIAM headquarters is a red herring as
well. But regardless, I do think

477
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.480
the most likely theory is that Trevor
became a victim of foul play. I'm

478
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:28.199
not entirely sure if the story told
by the informant is true, but if

479
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.679
it's not, I think the real
truth might be something fairly similar. Trevor

480
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:36.199
just crossed paths with the wrong person
on his walk home who did him harm.

481
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.159
They either abducted and murdered him in
another location, or they killed him

482
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.440
on the street but moved his body
out of the area and disposed of it

483
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.639
elsewhere. That is one reason I
don't completely rule out the hit and run

484
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.119
theory, as Trevor could have simply
been hit by a drunk driver, and

485
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:54.280
this person transported his body out of
the area to cover their tracks. But

486
00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:00.719
unfortunately, if someone out there is
directly responsible for Trevor's death, they've essentially

487
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:05.440
gotten away with the perfect crime,
which is pretty incredible given how much exposure

488
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.280
this case has received in Ireland.
At the very least. However, the

489
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:13.440
Daily family have been amazing advocates for
Trevor and you know that they will not

490
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.960
give up until they find out what
happened. Trevor's parents are both near their

491
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:21.480
eighties right now, and it's heartbreaking
to read just how much of a toll

492
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:25.039
this ordeal has taken on them as
they've grown older. When you read stories

493
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:29.880
about the parents of missing victims getting
up there in age and hoping to see

494
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:34.360
a resolution before they leave this world, you sincerely hope this can happen.

495
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:39.239
So if you have any information about
the disappearance of Trevor Deely, please contact

496
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:45.119
the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any
final thoughts on this case. This is

497
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:50.800
the only thing that there is to
say about this case is how tragic it

498
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:58.079
is for a family who is mourning
the loss of Trevor's presence and aren't particularly

499
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:01.320
sure what to be mourning right,
not sure what happened to him. They're

500
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:07.239
not sure. There's no one hundred
percent guarantee that he died that night,

501
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:13.000
that he's deceased now, but the
likelihood is that he is. So his

502
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:16.360
poor family is in this position where
they have, from the time he went

503
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:23.239
missing to today decades later, advocated
for media coverage, advocated that Trevor's story

504
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:29.519
be remembered, advocated that his own
personal memory and legacy is remembered, and

505
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:32.039
they're still in some ways holding a
space for him in their own family,

506
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:39.920
asking what if right? And so
it's heartbreaking. My disheart and soul go

507
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.360
out to a family who's saying,
please, don't forget who Trevor was.

508
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:49.639
Can you guys imagine if decades later
someone came forward and said, I know

509
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.960
what happened. It is very interesting
that that one informant did come forward with

510
00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:00.519
a pretty powerful story. Were they
lying? It's possible that they want attention,

511
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:02.840
but they didn't get much and they
didn't ask for any money. So

512
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.000
part of me thinks that there is
a nuggative truth in there. Right.

513
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:12.880
Do they have the whole story?
Possibly not, but man, it takes

514
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:16.280
one person and time ends up being
on the family side when decades have passed.

515
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.880
So prayers that someone who knows what
happened can come forward and give this

516
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.639
families some answers. Before I give
my final thoughts, just one question,

517
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:30.639
Robin, So the informant they came
forward, do we know if that informant

518
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:37.159
has any connection to the unnamed suspect. I'm not entirely sure. They haven't

519
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.880
really made that clear. I'm guessing
so because apparently this unnamed suspect told this

520
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:45.159
story of some sort, so I
guess they must have had a close relationship

521
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:50.719
at some point, but I know
that the Guardia kept details very secret from

522
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.639
the public. Yeah, it's really
interesting. I wish we knew more,

523
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:58.679
and I agree with everything you said, Ash. It's just so tragic for

524
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.880
the family to have nowhere that they
can go to more in the loss of

525
00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:07.840
Trevor, to not have his physical
body, and just to have zero answers.

526
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.880
I think we have not a lot
to go on here. But I

527
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.400
just don't think the idea that he
fell into a body of water is all

528
00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:19.119
that plausible. I think there would
have been some trace that would have showed

529
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.079
up over time. And I mean, of course I don't think that he

530
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:27.599
completed suicide, because you would find
the body, and it just doesn't seem

531
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:30.360
like his behavior was in line with
somebody who wanted to end their own life.

532
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:34.639
And I know sometimes you can't see
it coming, but he literally just

533
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.079
a short while before made plans for
later that weekend with a friend, and

534
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:42.719
he'd seen all the people that night. He seemed to be in good spirits.

535
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:45.559
It just seems like he came across
the wrong person. Whatever their motive

536
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:51.719
was, be it robbery or something
else that is unknown right now, and

537
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:57.119
for whatever reason they decided to end
his life. It is just so tragic

538
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.280
that nobody has come forward because I
feel like this is a where more than

539
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:06.800
one person will know what had happened
to Trevor, and like should have concrete

540
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.039
details, and I guess that's what
the informant was potentially doing with where the

541
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:15.159
body could have been but may have
been moved. It's really sad that the

542
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:21.719
parents don't have those remains and to
this day don't have a concrete answer as

543
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.119
to what happened to Trevor. Yeah. I've been following this case for years,

544
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:29.559
ever since I covered it on the
Trail Went Cold nearly six years ago,

545
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.039
and I still find it to be
one of the most haunting cases I've

546
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:36.519
ever seen, because it's just one
of those things where there were a bunch

547
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:40.039
of wrong circumstances which put Trevor in
his position where if he had been able

548
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:44.280
to take a taxi home to his
apartment from the party, but there was

549
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:47.079
a strike so that he otherwise would
have been safe, and if it had

550
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:52.079
been raining hard, he probably just
would have walked straight home without stopping by

551
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.800
his workplace to pick up an umbrella, so things might have turned out differently.

552
00:39:55.519 --> 00:40:00.280
And the reason I decided to revisit
this case recently because they made that

553
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:07.360
shocking announcement that the man in black
seen passing by the ATM camera had been

554
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:12.440
identified and ruled out as having any
involvement in Trevor's disappearance. And I have

555
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:16.320
to admit that for years I thought
this guy might have had some involvement,

556
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.480
that maybe he was following Trevor,
and that he may have abducted him at

557
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:22.880
a later time or killed him.
But since we know that's not the case,

558
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:28.559
this investigation is right back to square
one, and it has taken such

559
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.360
a toll on the Daily family that
they just said that it was a bittersweet

560
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:35.480
moment to have this new lead,
saying that, well, I'm glad we

561
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.119
can close the chapter on this lead
and not devote any more resources to it.

562
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:42.639
But at the same time, if
this man was not involved in Trevor's

563
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.320
disappearance, then what did happen to
him? We've got nothing to work with,

564
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.159
and I think the closes we have
is this story from the informant about

565
00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.079
Trevor crossing paths with some criminal figures
who killed him that night and disposed of

566
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:59.519
his body. And while this full
story about him being shot accidentally at an

567
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:04.400
apartment may not be entirely true,
I do think that what actually did happen

568
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.679
to Trevor that there are some elements
of truth in it. I think it's

569
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.679
something similar. I think he just
prospassed with the wrong person and that they

570
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.440
killed him and disposed of his body
and have just somehow managed to get away

571
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:17.719
with it. And like we talked
about, what may lead to this case

572
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.960
being solved is for the right person
to come forward, and we went in

573
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.280
a step in the right direction when
that informant came forward in twenty seventeen,

574
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:30.000
but unfortunately it didn't pan out,
but I do have a feeling that there

575
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:32.400
are other people out there who might
know the full truth, who might have

576
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:37.079
the answers, so hopefully they do
come forward at some point, and then

577
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:42.920
maybe the Daley family will finally get
a resolution after twenty three years. Robin,

578
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.599
do you want to tell us a
little bit about the Trailment Cold Patreon.

579
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.320
Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has
been around for three years now,

580
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:53.440
and we offer these standard bonus features
like early ad free episodes, and I

581
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:58.960
also send out stickers and signed thank
you cards to anyone who signs up with

582
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.199
us on Patreon. If you join
our five dollars tier tier two, we

583
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:07.639
also offer monthly bonus episodes in which
I talk about cases which are not featured

584
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:12.519
on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and

585
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.440
if you join our highest tier tier
three, the ten dollars tier. One

586
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:21.800
of the features we offer is a
audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved

587
00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:25.119
Mysteries, where you can download an
audio file and then boot up the original

588
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:30.800
Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
YouTube and play it with my audio commentary

589
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:35.880
playing in the background, where I
just provide trivia and factoids about the cases

590
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:39.039
featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did

591
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:44.360
a commentary track over was the episode
featuring this case. So if you want

592
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.440
to download a commentary track in which
I make more smart ass remarks about jewel

593
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:51.960
Kaylor, then be sure to join
Tier three. So I want to let

594
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.480
you know a little bit about the
Jeweles and Nashty Patreon. So there's early

595
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:59.360
ad free episodes of The Path Went
Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili

596
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.199
minisure always over an hour, so
they're not very many, but they're just

597
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:06.800
too short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

598
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:09.119
so we hope you'll check out those
patreons. We'll link them in the show

599
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:13.599
notes. So I want to thank
you all for listening, and any chance

600
00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:15.880
you have to share us on social
media with a friend or to rate and

601
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:21.239
review is greatly appreciated. You can
email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot

602
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:24.199
com. You can reach us on
Twitter at the Pathwink. So until next

603
00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:29.039
time, be sure to bundle up
because cold trails and chili pass call for

604
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:32.119
warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich
from the podcast Cold Callers comedy,