WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:06.719 I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis, and this is safe word. Safe 2 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:11.080 word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here 3 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.640 to support you, we're telling you all the details on our own sex lives, 4 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:19.600 relationships, identities and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy, 5 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:23.519 but we are sex therapists and what you hear today may excite you. Each 6 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:27.519 week we'd talkle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender and more. 7 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:32.240 This week we're answering your questions about dom and sub dynamics with a very special 8 00:00:32.280 --> 00:01:14.599 guest. Yeas Harris at Yazz is an Iranian, non binary, bisexual, 9 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:19.640 PolyAm educator and selet from Toronto, Canada. They are an in house professional 10 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.239 dominant at the Ritual Chamber, where they go by mix airis the non binary 11 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:29.439 dom. They specialize in psychological play and are most passionate about working with queer 12 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:34.319 and trance clients. They've hosted a panel of non binary doms through Seven Days 13 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:38.359 of Domination, hosted a queer dating reality show throughout TV called Dating Unlocked, 14 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:42.280 and are on the advisory board for the Youth Sexpert Program. And of course 15 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:47.439 they work full time for Queer Sex Therapy as a social media manager. You 16 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.840 can find them on Instagram at yazz dot the Human, where they are usually 17 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:59.040 honest and often naked. All stood off by saying this might be the episode 18 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.120 of this season I'm most excited for, because, Yeah, As, you're 19 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:06.920 the guests that we know best and work with every day, and it's the 20 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.080 expertise you're bringing today is an expertise that we don't really get to benefit from 21 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:15.120 on the other sides of your work. So I'm super pumped to see this 22 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.439 side of you. I'm a little bit nervous for you to see this side 23 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:21.759 of me. I feel like I don't get to talk a lot about my 24 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.840 whole other side of my work life, so this will be very interesting talking 25 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:30.159 to my boss about some of this. But I think this is the whole 26 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:36.039 point of the work that we do, is talking about sex and destigmatizing and 27 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:40.280 d shaming, So this whole checks out. I can't wait. Did I 28 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:44.840 tell you, Camille, when we were hiring a social media manager that the 29 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.120 language I was using before we ever interviewed Yas was that I was looking for 30 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:52.039 a social media Do you did that language that we were using? I was 31 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:53.759 like, I really I need somebody to come tell me what to do, 32 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.080 tell me how to do it, but also do it in like a really 33 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:02.039 soft holding environment. And then Yas came alog and literally is a dom and 34 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:07.800 social media extraordinarror couldn't have been better. So so social media Yeas is meeting 35 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:15.560 dom Yaz right here on Safer and today it's the collab that we couldn't have 36 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.199 dreamed up if we tried. I was gonna say, though, half the 37 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.159 time when Casey, when I'm asking Casey certain things to do, half the 38 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:30.680 time they're saying no. Anyway, So there it is. Well, we 39 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:34.960 are your bosses, and so let this be known. Anything you don't want 40 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:39.439 to answer, you do not need to answer. First person asked, I 41 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:43.840 want to explore power dynamics with my partner, but I have no clue how 42 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.800 to bring this up or begin to negotiate. I also think I might be 43 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:51.759 a switch help. It's a lot going on in this question, for sure, 44 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.919 and I can totally resonate and relate to the feeling of being so new 45 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:00.120 and just feeling like there are questions coming at you in every pulsele area of 46 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:03.520 what this might be. So I think My first question, first and foremost 47 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:08.759 back to this person, would be why is it that you're fearful to bring 48 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:13.599 this up to a partner. Is it because you are nervous about what their 49 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:17.120 own reaction might be or is it your own shame or insecurities that are coming 50 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:20.839 up that are making you feel nervous about bringing up this kind of conversation. 51 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:25.600 If you're nervous about what your partner's reaction to this might be, I think 52 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.519 that it's a great opportunity to bring in someone else, like a therapist or 53 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:32.360 a coach, to help you kind of unpack, because you can't do that 54 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.399 on their behalf. They're having their own reactions to things like That's where it 55 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:41.439 might be really helpful to ask them to do some of their own work outside 56 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:44.600 of you, or bring somebody else into the equation. But if it's your 57 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.680 own insecurities, this is also a really good chance to say, Hey, 58 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.920 I really want to talk to you about potentially exploring power dynamics. I'm really 59 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:56.160 interested in kink, but I'm feeling really nervous and insecure about this conversation and 60 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.800 I'd love some support from you from you, so it's a good opportunity to 61 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:04.839 kind of like get support from your partner from the get go. But if 62 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:10.639 you're also nervous about how you get started in developing a power dynamic, I 63 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:14.279 think that one of the most helpful things to start to determine is what your 64 00:05:14.319 --> 00:05:16.800 interests are. So yes, no or maybe lists are going to be your 65 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:21.279 best friend. A There's a ton of resources online if you just search kink 66 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:25.439 yes no, maybe list, b DSM Yes no, maybe list. There 67 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:28.240 are a ton of educators who have already done a lot of that work for 68 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.279 you. But if you want to create one from scratch on your own, 69 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.600 how is it that you're going to see what kinds of things are out there? 70 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.639 What you can look at the obvious examples, like the kinds of things 71 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:41.199 that you're seeing coming up in porn or other media, things that you've heard 72 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:46.680 your friends talking about, things that maybe have desires that have bubbled out of 73 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.240 your own experiences, and then start to lay those out these are things that 74 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:53.959 I already might be interested in. And remember just at the start, when 75 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:57.839 you're just discovering what your interests and desires are, you're not locking yourself into 76 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:01.480 anything. This is you just trying to figure out what you may potentially want 77 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:08.319 to explore, So giving yourself some freedom to potentially say that you might be 78 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:11.600 interested in something that doesn't work out at all, that you don't end up 79 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.480 being interested in at all. And then the next step, once you've figured 80 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:20.639 out what those lists of things that you're interested in are for yourself, sitting 81 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:26.560 your partner down and comparing your answers. Do you already have things that are 82 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.079 in line that your shared interests are you could totally start to pursue with those, 83 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:35.480 And then yeah, starting there, I think is a fantastic opportunity to 84 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.000 get started. And I also just want to note for anyone who's super new 85 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:46.600 that there is a big differentiation between negotiating for a scene versus planning for a 86 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:53.000 scene. So negotiation is going to include things like what your hard limits are. 87 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:57.439 Those are things that you're absolutely not interested in. Your soft limits things 88 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:01.120 that you might likely I don't want to do but maybe somebody can ask you 89 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.040 about in the moment, versus your go aheads the things that are greens. 90 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:10.600 But your negotiation is also going to include things like setting a safe word, 91 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.639 discussing what a punishment is going to look like if you're incorporating that a punishment 92 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:20.879 if you're going to incorporate that what your triggers are. Your negotiation is a 93 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:28.759 collaborative effort, whereas scene planning is what you're dam or whoever is taking charge 94 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:32.199 of the conversation is going to use to curate a scene after you've done your 95 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.160 negotiation. If that makes sense, I never never knew that difference. That 96 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:41.839 makes so much sense and so helpful to set the stage in that way. 97 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.000 I love that you brought up just because you say you want to explore something 98 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:50.279 doesn't mean you're committing to a particular persona a particular approach, because I do 99 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:54.000 find so often people are like, if I put this out there with my 100 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:57.360 partner and they do the work to buy into it, and I do that 101 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:59.879 vulnerable work of asking, and then I don't like it, What is that 102 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.079 mean about me? Have I wasted everybody's time? And it's like, no, 103 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.399 this is this is a process of learning, trial and error, exploration. 104 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.319 All of that is okay totally. I think that it makes the whole 105 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.759 situation a lot less successiful if we go into it thinking that the second something 106 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.120 comes out of our mouth, we are locked into it. So for the 107 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.040 beginning or I don't know. I don't know. I've got, you know, 108 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.120 four or five years of experience within the lifestyle as a lifestyle player but 109 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:30.240 also as a professional in a dungeon type setting, And there are so many 110 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.679 things that I thought I was going to be interested in that absolutely were nos 111 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.960 for me. But I wouldn't have known that unless I'd verbalized it and given 112 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:39.919 it a try from the get go. So take the pressure off. You 113 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.519 don't have to have it all figured out right away. You need to have 114 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.759 safety practices and protocol in place. I do not in any way want to 115 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:52.720 encourage you to just be super wily nearly and take risks and when there's other 116 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:54.720 people's safety on the line. But when it comes to just not being sure 117 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.200 what it is that you want to do, I think you should totally just 118 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.399 go for it and try. Yeah. I think also I'm wondering if this 119 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:07.759 person is feeling a lot of pressure to already be an expert of like, 120 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.360 if I'm going to breach this subject, I need to have everything already figured 121 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:16.120 out rather than being like I might just like pose this as a curiosity and 122 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:22.639 invite my partner or partners in with me to this discussion rather than already feeling 123 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.360 like you have to have all of the answers. I think that there can 124 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.919 be a lot of pressure when trying to introduce anything new into a relationship, 125 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:35.080 and I think there's this additional level when you're considering power dynamics totally. I 126 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:37.679 also want to note that the last part of this question, just kind of 127 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.039 throwing peppered in at the end, is I think I'm a switch, help, 128 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:46.039 And I think that's a really common experience for people who don't think that 129 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.720 they fit, you know, really evenly on one end of the binary, 130 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.840 and the binary exists everywhere. But I'm not a dumb dumb I'm not a 131 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:56.000 sub. These feel like more tangible. I think I have a really clear 132 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:01.200 idea of what's expected of me if I exist on one end of these extremes. 133 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.919 But if I'm a switch, what does that mean? What do I 134 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.039 do? And I'm a switch myself, a very proud switch, and I 135 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.519 just want to mention that there are a lot of different context in which your 136 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:15.639 switchiness can kind of present itself. You can be a switch with one partner. 137 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:20.120 You can be submissive with one partner and dominant with another partner. So 138 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:24.320 that's you know, actively practicing that switchiness and getting that kind of experience of 139 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:30.720 both sides. You can also be switchy within a relationship with one singular person, 140 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.600 where there are certain scenes where you explore a more submissive side and other 141 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:39.399 scenes where you explore more dominant side. And then finally you can actually try 142 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:46.559 switching within a specific scene with one person. Yeah, so my long term 143 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:50.519 partner and I, that's one of our favorite things to do where sometimes we'll 144 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:54.320 just start playing and a scene will naturally arise and then all of a sudden, 145 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.200 one or both of us will look at each other like you want to 146 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:01.200 just this is where you to switch, And so that can be really fun 147 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:05.879 too, But there's lots of playfulness can go into all of this. Do 148 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:11.960 you feel like you've developed that just kind of innately from knowing each other and 149 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:18.080 anticipating each other's needs or as their language that helps you all frame That definitely 150 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.480 makes it so much easier when you're navigating that with someone that you already know, 151 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.960 because I can read their body language and I can see you and they're 152 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.120 not super into something. And I also don't feel shy at all being like 153 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.360 oo babes like isn't working for me anymore, like I'm not aroused, where 154 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.840 I probably wouldn't use that kind of like blatant language with somebody that I'm playing 155 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.600 with for the first time, saying oh I'm not into that, Let's try 156 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:41.919 something else. I'd be a lot more delicate, a lot more fearful to 157 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.200 be that honest about my feelings. But because we have such a long standing 158 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:50.000 relationship, I really will just say it straight up for how it is, 159 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:54.440 based on how I'm feeling in the moment, or again read their body language, 160 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:56.399 and I'll literally just say, hey, how do you feel about me? 161 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.080 You know, I can just say how do you feel about me? 162 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:07.000 Switching into mommy mode, whereas a moment ago they were topping me, or 163 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.159 they had a more like caregiver type persona and I was the submissive. And 164 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.200 other times I'll just take on a physical action like putting my tit into my 165 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.399 partner's mouth and saying suck on it and see how they react and if they 166 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:24.720 if they take it and they begin to suckle, then I just assume at 167 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:31.759 that point that the mode now the rules have probably changed, makes total sense. 168 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.240 I love it. I love a physical sort of sign Yeah, you 169 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.440 also brought up shame when you were talking about this, and I wondered if 170 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.120 in your work with folks who are maybe new to this, if you notice 171 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.840 any different patterns in the type of shame that people who are totally new and 172 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.159 are wanting to try dominance have and totally new want to have try submissiveness or 173 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:56.039 are switchy have, Like, do you notice any particular flavors of shame that 174 00:12:56.399 --> 00:13:03.440 show up that change depending on the thing that somebody's interested in exploring one hundred 175 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.919 percent, there are definitely like different categories or archetypes that I could classify people 176 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:13.759 under based on the kink or the power dynamic role that they want to participate 177 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.919 in. So with fellow dons other people who want to top and this is 178 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.720 an experience that I have most definitely had myself. Was a lot of shame 179 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:30.120 for feeling desire to want to inflict harm on another person and automatically equating being 180 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.919 a sadist with being an abuser, which blatantly is not the case. But 181 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.879 I personally felt really, really, really conflicted about why I wanted to dominate 182 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.720 someone, why I was so interested in this, and I kind of bypassed 183 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:48.200 my shame, not by properly working through it, but by ignoring my actual 184 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.799 desires. And so when I first stepped into the dungeon and began domming professionally 185 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:58.120 for the first time, I was one hundred percent certain that the only type 186 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.039 of dominance I would be interested in would be sensual dominance, where I was 187 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.559 only going to be very gentle. I was almost exclusively going to take on 188 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:09.519 more of a nurturing role. And then I realized that I was actually only 189 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.320 able to access that type of dominance with a very particular clientele, specifically with 190 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.600 queer clients or trans clients. It was very easy to find that style of 191 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.240 dominance, but for other folks it didn't come naturally to me at all. 192 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.600 And then I was confronted again, I really am more of a sadist. 193 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:30.759 I want to do this, this and this. This doesn't make me a 194 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.679 bad person. I'm not hurting anybody. This is a consensual activity that is 195 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.200 taking place between adults, and so it's okay if I want to do this, 196 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:43.159 so long as there are protocols in place in case I make a mistake, 197 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.039 because sometimes I do, or if somebody gets hurt. What am I 198 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.639 going to do. On the other end of it, folks who are really 199 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:54.240 interested in submission. I find that, honestly, regardless of gender, a 200 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.159 lot of people feel really shameful about it because it feels anti feminist to them 201 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:03.879 or go against their political views and values. And to that, I'd say, 202 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.440 and Casey and Camille, I know that both of you have spoken about 203 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.600 this before. Fantasy does not have to equal what you want in real life. 204 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.600 And I would apply that to kink as well. Just because I in 205 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:22.360 reality want these kinds of activities and things done to me within this role play 206 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:26.399 fantasy setting does not mean that I want these things to happen to me in 207 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:31.200 real life. And so and from Switches, I'd say that the shame that 208 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:35.720 comes up that I've experienced as people just feeling like they're too complicated or feeling 209 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:41.080 like they're too greedy for wanting to engage in so many different types of things. 210 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:45.039 And to that, I say, I am the epitome of greed because 211 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.279 I live at the intersections of in between in every facet of my existence. 212 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:56.159 I'm bisexual, I'm non binary, I'm polyamorous, I'm a switch, I'm 213 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.000 mixed race. Like I am literally just taken up space wherever I can, 214 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.080 So that doesn't mean that everybody has to deal with me. But I'm not 215 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:08.000 gonna try and force myself into a box for somebody else's comfort. No way, 216 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:15.440 oh way, O I know a word. I wish the mics could 217 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.639 pick up our head knots because Camilla and I were like little bobble heads, 218 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.559 were like yes, yes, yes, let's take a break to hear from 219 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:29.000 our sponsor Saford. Fans know that Kamila and I can't live without our vibrators 220 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:33.480 Solo SAX partnered SAX. Our vibrators are always there like trusted old friends. 221 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.720 Our two go tos, Enigma Cruz and Soia Wave both are double stimulators by 222 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:41.679 Lalo that pleasure the clitterest and the g spot. Keep listening for a twenty 223 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:47.879 five percent off discount code. Enigma Cruz combines internal and external clitteral simulation to 224 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:52.200 facilitate a blended orgasm. 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Since we've taken over with our own KIO, now let's go 242 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.720 into the next question, which says, I know there must be more than 243 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.799 one way to be dominant, but I can't figure out what they are. 244 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.920 How do I figure out what kind of dominant I am? Great question. 245 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:27.079 I want to preface answering this question by saying, please try not to get 246 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.880 too stuck in finding a label, because, on the one hand, finding 247 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:36.599 a label can be really helpful in the sense that it gives you language for 248 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.720 your own understanding and also language to be able to effectively communicate with a potential 249 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:45.240 partner or play partner what it is that your interests are. If I were 250 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.359 to say I'm a sadistic dominant and I were to communicate that to someone else, 251 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.920 that's really helpful because I'm assuming that they have a shared understanding of what 252 00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:00.160 that means. But even in that case, these terms change so often in 253 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.559 and are so expansive that even with having some kind of label to describe what 254 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.720 it is that you're into, I still think that you should have some kind 255 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:14.880 of like debrief conversation to find a shared definition of what that means. Otherwise 256 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.240 you're operating under the assumption that you both know what you're talking about, when 257 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.759 chances are you actually are not on the same page. But if you can't 258 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:27.119 find a label that fully encompasses what your dominant style or submissive style is, 259 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:32.119 that's okay because you can combine any of these. But let's start by talking 260 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.000 about different dawnmark types. So one of my favorite BDSM educators, her name 261 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.599 is Evilupine. She's an incredible YouTube channel, so so smart, and in 262 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:48.680 one of her videos, she kind of breaks down different categories of dominance and 263 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.519 she breaks them down as the following dominance who are service focused, which would 264 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:57.440 be folks who are really interested in the pleasure of their submissive. They're really 265 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:03.799 wanting to provide things in service of the submissive pleasure and enjoyment, but they 266 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.759 are still dominant because they are the ones providing them with that experience. The 267 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:12.960 second category would be action focused folks who are dominant because they have an interest 268 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.839 in the act of flogging, the act of caning. They're really fascinated by 269 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.960 when an implement comes into contact with somebody's body, So that could be your 270 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.799 style. There's also reaction focused. I can't remember what episode of safe word, 271 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:30.559 it was, but it was really interesting. Y'all were talking about what 272 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:37.720 happens when someone's main objective for play is for somebody else's pleasure, and kind 273 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.720 of how things get kind of muddy when you lose touch with your own desire. 274 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.880 But not to say that's what this is necessarily, but when you're domining 275 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:51.079 in order to see how somebody reacts, and then finally suffering focused. One 276 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:59.200 guess from y'all what you think my main interest is there more than not? 277 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.759 Yes, just a suffering focus. But so if we were to look at 278 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.720 those main categories, we can find so many different additional terms that would fall 279 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:12.839 under these. So caregiver mommy daddy type that could potentially go under any of 280 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:18.559 those main categories that we spoke about, depending on what the intentionality is behind 281 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.920 it. But for the most part, when I picture a caregiver mommy daddy 282 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:27.160 type situation as an dom archetype, I think of someone who's very gentle or 283 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:30.960 nurturing, wants the best for their bottom, for their submissive, that kind 284 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:37.799 of thing. There's also the brat tamer archetype, a pet trainer, the 285 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.519 service domb. But then it's also you can look at the quality at which 286 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:48.880 you're domming. Are you sensual, gentle, strict sadistic? Disciplinary? See 287 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.160 how many layers of the onion there can be, Like, there's a lot. 288 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.160 And then if we were to look on the other side of it, 289 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:59.680 if we were looking at submissive archetypes, you could be a pet princess, 290 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:04.559 a little a brat, a prey, a service submissive, And you can 291 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.960 find so much information about each of those things. And then, like I 292 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:12.680 said, you can make your own so long as you're in honest communication with 293 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.519 whoever it is that you're playing with, what it is that you mean, 294 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:18.720 or what it is that you're looking for. When you say that those are 295 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.799 the things that you're interested in as an archetype, then I think you're good 296 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.279 to go. Try not to get too caught up in finding a label. 297 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:33.920 I've never taken so many notes for a podcast, like I'm really learning right 298 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.559 now, like you identify with any of these casey, Yeah, I was 299 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.119 going to ask what were you writing down? Oh no, I mean I'm 300 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:45.519 just writing literally everything you said is what I wrote down because I need to 301 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.759 process all of this. I don't really identify as a dumb. I think 302 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:53.559 if anything I'm like switchy, leaning a little bit submissive. I don't think 303 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.000 I'm any of these. I don't think I'm any of these. Okay, 304 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:04.119 Camille, what about that's my answer? I think same, I'm like bookending 305 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:10.079 the first one and the first one that you mentioned is that also sometimes referred 306 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:14.640 to as a pleasure domb yes, okay, and then the suffering one, 307 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:21.960 the reactionary one, and the action one. Yes. How about how about 308 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.359 an easier question when you are or if you've been in a situation where you've 309 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.640 been dominant, which I know that you have been because you did text me 310 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:33.000 asking me for advice, so I do know it happened. I did. 311 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:41.440 When you were approaching that scene, what kind of dom era? Yeah? 312 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:47.759 Were you trying to embody? I think maybe the reactionary? Okay, while 313 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:51.279 you were doing things to see what your partner's reaction would be. What kind 314 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:57.200 of reaction would have turned you on the most to see um maybe like or 315 00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:03.559 maybe like here, I'm like very into like the auditory feedback, so like 316 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.599 a lot of like moaning, would it felt good? Or like I think 317 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:12.400 also just like maybe like a slight little like wincing or a little bit of 318 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:17.240 like apprehension with like an I roll, like a back of the head I 319 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.279 roll, and pleasure combo of those things. Okay, So in that I 320 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:25.880 hear that you're interested in your partner's pleasure, but that you also wanted to 321 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.279 see them struggle a little bit. Yeah, so you were trying to assert 322 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:34.240 maybe your power through giving them certain things that you knew would be enjoyable, 323 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:38.599 or withholding it from them. Yes, yes, definitely that makes sense. 324 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.680 It's so generous of you to workshop this with us. Yes, it's so 325 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.240 funny, Like I live in a bubble a lot of the time, where 326 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.559 it's so helpful to have to explain things and in this way and to kind 327 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:59.240 of like force myself to see things in simpler terms because I feel like I'm 328 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:03.799 just in this world constantly trying to navigate between, you know, different powers. 329 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.720 Specifically because I'm constantly planning out scenes with my clients, I'm constantly thinking 330 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.240 about what kind of sex I want to be having with my partner play partners, 331 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:18.359 and so it's so interesting to me to see how much amazing sex people 332 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:23.440 are having outside of this realm and that there is really so much pleasure to 333 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:30.720 be had with sex and connection that can be within the realm of DSM and 334 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:36.599 also outside. There's just so much for everyone. Well said, I love 335 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:45.680 that this person wants to know. How do I uncouple being dominant from masculinity 336 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:52.759 and being submissive from femininity. This is another big source of shame. I 337 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.960 think when people assume that being dominant is going to look a certain way, 338 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.920 and when they don't feel like they're able to embody what it is that they're 339 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.799 assuming dominance is supposed to look like, they feel like they're unfit for that 340 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:08.680 kind of role. And then on the vice versa. I think that the 341 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:15.319 most helpful thing in my process of uncoupling these things have been a starting to 342 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:19.960 write down what it is that I think that masculinity is, and then what 343 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:25.119 it is that I think that dominance is. And Okay, yeah, society 344 00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:29.960 has shown me that a lot of these things are the same or interchangeable, 345 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.960 but not in its healthiest form. These are just assumed roles that we've been 346 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.680 asked to take. And so if I were to start to look at dominance 347 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:47.359 and I were to list out things like in control or knows best or is 348 00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:52.920 very patient or whatever qualities of dominance that I think are interesting, even when 349 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.200 sometimes the things that you're listing out feel like they're in opposition to one another. 350 00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:02.720 One of the most helpful things that I've found decoupling masculinity from dominance has 351 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:07.960 been listing out what I think are dominant qualities and really asking myself if I 352 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:11.640 think that that's attached to gender in any way, and what does masculinity really 353 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:17.279 mean anyway? So if we were to remove masculinity entirety, entirely, remove 354 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:22.319 femininity entirely, and just look at what is dominance and what is submission, 355 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.920 I think that that idea is so perfect, Like that exercise that you talked 356 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:34.039 about of kind of like writing it down these two lists and literally physically having 357 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:40.759 this cathartic experience of decoupling them and being like, does this actually signify masculinity? 358 00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:45.720 Because some of the things you talked about patients, caretaking, anticipation, 359 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:51.160 I don't necessarily associate that with masculinity. So I think that that's a really 360 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:57.200 wonderful practice, and I can see myself like integrating that into my experiences. 361 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.799 So I'm here for it. It'd be cool too for somebody to sort of 362 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:06.119 sit with, like, Okay, what is what is my authentic gender expression, 363 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:11.240 and what is my authentic leaning as it relates to dominance, switchiness and 364 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:14.880 submissiveness, And how can I map one of them onto the other. So, 365 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:19.319 if my gender expression is you know, androgynous leaning fem and I know 366 00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:23.599 that I'm you know, dominant, what happens when I map those two things 367 00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:29.519 onto each other? What roles come to like, what statements might come to 368 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.039 mind? What scenes might arise from that? Like a sort of wonder if 369 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.759 you take, like whatever your authentic gender expression is, leave previous definitions of 370 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:42.119 masculinatan family behind, how can you use that to actually allow like a really 371 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:51.480 euphoric dynamic to emerge for yourself? Totally? So, our next question says, 372 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.200 I struggle with getting into a dom or subheadspace mostly because I lack confidence 373 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:03.480 and feel imposter syndrome. How do I get better? This imposter syndrome is 374 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.960 so real for so many of us in so many facets of our life, 375 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.200 and so it's only understandable that it's going to come up in our sex lives 376 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:17.480 as well, especially if we're trying something so new like incorporating power dynamics or 377 00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.319 anything. I think that the most helpful thing that you can do is start 378 00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.440 to develop some kind of character. And so I'm super into role play. 379 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.640 And one of the main reasons I'm super into rule play is because it's given 380 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:36.880 me permission to act in a certain way that maybe Yaz myself would feel really 381 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.319 nervous about. But this, you know, dommy top persona, my work 382 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.279 persona goes by mix airis that mix Arras doesn't feel nervous about. And so 383 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:51.480 when I've started to develop the kinds of qualities that mix Arras has, one 384 00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:53.559 of their main things is that they're confident, and I don't have to worry 385 00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:57.480 about whether or not yas themselves. It's actually confident because I'm going to step 386 00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:03.559 into fully embodying this role. And so one of the things that has been 387 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:11.279 really amazing in kind of like actually actualizing that is ritualizing the process having an 388 00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:15.000 outfit, laying out your outfit, feeling the material. I'm a big slut 389 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:19.519 for leather, so leather now is one of my main rituals in terms of 390 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.279 like getting into the headspace, listening to the leather, smelling the leather, 391 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.200 feeling the leather on my body. I feel this like dominant persona is starting 392 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.680 to bubble up inside of me, certain mantras that you say to yourself in 393 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.599 the mirror. I know y'all are big into mantras and affirmations, so that 394 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:38.039 can be super super helpful too, And of course on the other side of 395 00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:44.319 as well, if you are more submissive leaning. But yeah, developing a 396 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.119 character persona is super helpful. But also not feeling like you have to sit 397 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:53.279 in this fear or this insecurity alone. I think that it's actually really powerful 398 00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.400 to speak whatever it is that you're feeling nervous about allowed to your partner. 399 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:03.200 And I think there's this un fair expectation that, let's say, for example, 400 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.079 hypothetically you're feeling really nervous about being dominant, that if you bring up 401 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.440 that fear to your partner that you're supposed to be dominating that, then they're 402 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.799 going to think that you absolutely don't have it in you at all. As 403 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.119 if dominance is supposed to be this thing that is like inherent within you, 404 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.599 that you're supposed to come out of the womb knowing how to perform in that 405 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.119 way. Well, I hate to break it to you. If you were 406 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.920 socialized as a woman, chances are you did not come out the womb because 407 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:34.720 the second you were out into the world, everything around you was telling you 408 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:38.279 that you should not behave in that way. So you're being socialized in a 409 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:42.880 way that does not prime you or teach you how to embody that kind of 410 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:48.680 archetype. So it is something that I think is learned. People who just 411 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:52.319 say I'm naturally dominant, shut the hell up, No you're not. You 412 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.319 were given permission to take up a certain amount of space, your voice was 413 00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:00.279 listened to for majority of your life. You were told that what you had 414 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:05.519 to say was important and that you were allowed to be big. So in 415 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.039 saying that I think that it is something that can be learned, I don't 416 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:13.359 want that to be misconstrued as a way to say that you can convince somebody 417 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:16.279 else to take on a rule that they don't feel comfortable taking on. So 418 00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.000 I can say, yeah, I feel really nervous about being dominant, and 419 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:24.119 I think I need to take a course or a workshop or sit with myself 420 00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.440 and develop my confidence. But if I do not feel like that is an 421 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:31.839 interest of mine at all and I don't want to do it, my partner 422 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.240 can't say, oh, well, yeah, it's said on a podcast that 423 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.160 you could learn how to do it. If somebody doesn't want to do it 424 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.599 and they're not interested, it's not going to happen. But it is a 425 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:45.799 practiced skill, and you can also develop your confidence by the actual skill building 426 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:51.759 elements that are involved in Kinkin BDSM, I got a lot more confident as 427 00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:55.519 a dom when I properly learned how to can someone, when I properly learned 428 00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:00.000 how to use saran wrap and mummify someone, When I learned the different ways 429 00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:05.519 that I could fuck somebody with a strap on, the different paces and the 430 00:33:05.599 --> 00:33:09.240 different dirty talk phrases that I like. It is a practice, and you 431 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:16.440 get more confident by practicing it and getting feedback and making mistakes. I love 432 00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:21.200 that. I also it was like very when you talked about like developing a 433 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.160 person. I was like, oh, yeah, like Sasha fears the Beyonce, 434 00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:29.200 But like, like I imagine that that feels really helpful, And I 435 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.119 feel like as the therapist part of me is like yeah, it's like parts 436 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:36.440 work, like thinking about the different parts of you that come alive in these 437 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:40.200 different spaces and how to highlight and care for those parts, like identifying what 438 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:45.240 textures feel good to you and ritualizing it. I'm big INTI virtuals. So 439 00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:51.039 I love that. I love the therapist, and you're making this related to 440 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:52.680 parts work. It makes so much sense. I just really like that. 441 00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:59.880 I also think, you know, regardless of what side of misogyny you were 442 00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.200 raised on, no matter what way you were socialized, I feel like none 443 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:07.320 of it actually sets anybody up for real dominance. Right Like, even if 444 00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:12.480 you were socialized as a man whatever that necessarily means, that doesn't make you 445 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:15.159 naturally a good domb either, right. In fact, it might it might 446 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:19.880 mean you have a lot of unlearning to do before you're ready to relearn what 447 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.639 this actually looks like. So to your point, yeahs, it's like who 448 00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:28.360 is who is ready for this one? And that's what you just said is 449 00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:31.159 so related to how Camille kind of wrapped up that activity that we just talked 450 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:37.320 about in when you're going through that process of uncoupling, if you were socialized 451 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:42.000 to believe that you are prepared to be dominant, realizing that a lot of 452 00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:46.079 the qualities that you thought were dominant are actually not at all, or at 453 00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.639 least not an expression of it in a way that anybody else wants to engage 454 00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:53.360 with, or that feels good for you or for anybody else, and so 455 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:57.639 that whole process, Yeah, could be a lot of unlearning for sure. 456 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.400 Okay, next question, I really want to be submissive in bed, but 457 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:06.840 my partner doesn't feel ready. Is it okay to see a professional DOM? 458 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.920 And can I bring my partner to a session too? I love that this 459 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:14.920 person is considering hiring a sex worker to help them, because we can be 460 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:20.199 totally a helpful bunch. I'd say yes, it is okay to see a 461 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:23.360 professional DOM, so long as there is honesty with your partner about what it 462 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:28.320 is that you are trying to do. So for example, I have one 463 00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:32.199 client who comes to see me and their partner fully knows that they are coming 464 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:37.840 into session to see me. But I also have other clients whose partners do 465 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.360 not know. And again, it's not really in my place to decide whether 466 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:45.679 or not that's okay. But if I'm speaking openly about this, I generally 467 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.079 think that honesty is the best policy. But you're dominant or whatever sex worker 468 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:52.280 you're seeing is actually never going to ask you. Do you have a partner? 469 00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.920 Does your partner know that you're doing this? We don't care, It's 470 00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:58.880 none of our business. Where they're to provide you with a service and we 471 00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.719 are interested in your well being your safety, So whatever choice you make there 472 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:07.000 is up to you. But the second part of the question about whether or 473 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.559 not you could bring your partner with you, more likely than not, yes, 474 00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:14.480 you'll just have to specify that in the booking form that you are speaking 475 00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:19.280 to your dom through or whatever threat you're in communication with. Some of my 476 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:23.599 favorite sessions have been with couples, either that being folks who are interested in 477 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:30.760 developing some kind of BDSM or kinky type dynamic between them, but feel really 478 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:36.199 unsure and shy about how to do it, so they just like a professional 479 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.280 to help them. But it's also been a really cool way for clients to 480 00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:45.440 come in and learn what their interests are and then to bring that back to 481 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.639 their clients. Because let's say you're feeling really not super confident in your own 482 00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.239 ability, but then also your partner's ability, it can feel like a kind 483 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.800 of dangerous situation, especially if some of your kinks are a little bit further 484 00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:05.440 on the spectrum of potentially dangerous, if you're interested in asphyxiation or certain types 485 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:08.639 of bondage, like I definitely don't think that you and your partner should just 486 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:13.320 be risk in it and rolling with it, like either hire someone to teach 487 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.840 the two of you how to do it, or experience it for the first 488 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.679 time with a dom to see whether or not this is something that you're actually 489 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:22.039 interested in that then you and your partner partners would want to put more time 490 00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:28.800 and effort into developing and honing in that skill. But the joy that I 491 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:34.280 have witnessed from couples, and I've seen more than couples, I've seen polycueles. 492 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:39.960 I've seen all sorts of different figurations of partnerships and folks coming in to 493 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:44.559 see me, And honestly, the more the merrier. The best sessions that 494 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.880 I've ever had are with groups of people who are hiring multiple doms, so 495 00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.280 they'll be like my fun so they'll be like three doms and like a couple, 496 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.920 and I'll tell you are absolutely fucked. If you've hired that many doms, 497 00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:06.320 you're just beginning. It sounds like my dream too, really lovely experience, 498 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:08.679 and I think this is also a good opportunity for me to mention all 499 00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:14.519 of the different reasons why somebody might be interested in kink and b DSM. 500 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:20.800 So let's say you and your partner are in a romantic relationship, but for 501 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:24.199 you, you realize that you're super into kink and BDSM, or there's something 502 00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:28.960 that's interesting you but it doesn't feel sexual to you. You don't necessarily want 503 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.239 that to be something that you're exploring with your partner, and it's something that 504 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.719 you'd like to go see a professional four as a form of grounding, or 505 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.880 something that you do just to have some kind of release, or you're really 506 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:44.400 interested in the art form of something, or all the other various reasons why 507 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:47.119 somebody might be interested in something. There are tons of asexual folks who are 508 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.599 interested in kink, and for some of them it might not be sexual at 509 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.079 all. But even if you're not a sexual or a romantic and you're somewhere 510 00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:59.719 else on the sexuality spectrum, sex doesn't have to be the main motivating reason 511 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:01.679 why you would choose to pursue any of this. So to me, it 512 00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.599 makes a lot of sense if for some folks they wouldn't want to explore this 513 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.599 with their partner, and it would be something they'd want to explore outside of 514 00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:12.599 their partnership. Potentially, mal and I saw a dumb gosh, it must 515 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:16.239 be like a year ago now, and it was I cannot recommend it enough 516 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:21.360 and I'll tell you we need to have a million more sessions because this session, 517 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:23.960 it was not even sexual. We literally sat there, the three of 518 00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:29.280 us and just talked. We just talked about how we felt going into it, 519 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.079 our anxieties about it. And so I don't know, I don't know 520 00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:37.800 what typical is, but I can say like, it probably can look as 521 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.000 sexual or non sexual as you want it to be. I imagine yea as 522 00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.840 you probably have had a number of conversations with people who maybe weren't totally ready 523 00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:52.199 to dive into action, but wanted to explore. And the terminology that we 524 00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:55.920 use in our space is a consultation. So there are lots of people who 525 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:00.599 will come in just to see what our vibe like between us, whether or 526 00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:04.519 not they think that will be a good fit, or really they want to 527 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.840 sit there and say, I am so nervous, I have no idea what 528 00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:10.199 to do, And I say okay, and I put my little notebook away 529 00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.559 and I just look at them and I say, how can we figure this 530 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.159 out together? What do you want to do? And sometimes that results in 531 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:21.760 them booking a session. Sometimes that results in them booking a session ends up 532 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:25.280 just turning into another consultation and they just want to talk, and you know, 533 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:30.159 there are I'm a great conversationalist. I have no problem at all just 534 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.360 sittay down and having a chat with you. But I think it's also a 535 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:37.559 good good to come into those kinds of sessions remembering that we are also not 536 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:43.960 trained mental health professionals and so as willing as a lot of folks are. 537 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.559 I mean, sex workers are their own type of superheroes, and they're so 538 00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.239 emotionally intelligent and they have to do so much emotional labor all the time. 539 00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.679 But it doesn't mean that we're always the right people to be holding onto some 540 00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.719 of that information. So just keep in mind that if you are booking a 541 00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:04.480 caultation with someone or a session with a sex worker, a dom full service 542 00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.480 sex worker, whoever it is that you're seeing that while it's very helpful for 543 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.760 you to bring forward what your anxieties and insecurities are, that if you start 544 00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.719 going deep into your trauma or whatever it is that you want to discuss, 545 00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:22.679 that the provider should hopefully have their boundary set in a way where they can 546 00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:27.880 kindly say thank you so much for telling me that there isn't much that I 547 00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:30.760 can say to that, or I can't actually hold space for that right now, 548 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.679 or I don't think I'm the best person to speak to you about that. 549 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:36.840 And I hope that you know, in being on the receiving end of 550 00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.239 hearing some of that information, that boundary, that feedback, you don't take 551 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:43.920 it personally and this person doesn't hate you. They're actually protecting you as well 552 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.840 as themselves, and they're just not the best person to hold onto that. 553 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.880 A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to work with a sex 554 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:55.400 worker and a client where I was the sex therapist working in conjunction with a 555 00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:00.679 sex worker working with a client, and it was really amazing opportunity. I 556 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.199 think ye as for the client to know, like, Okay, this is 557 00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:07.199 where I go for this part of this work, and this is where I 558 00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:10.159 go for this other part of this work, and so it's amazing. It's 559 00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:14.039 amazing to hear that that's part of the process of sex work, and just 560 00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:17.039 like it's part of the process of therapy. Knowing knowing where your work ins 561 00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:22.199 and where it begins is part of caring for people. Yeah, well, 562 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:27.000 I can imagine that if you're seeing a therapist who is potentially not king conformed, 563 00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.199 that if you start talking to them about your kinks and your desires and 564 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.440 stuff that you're into that hopefully the therapist says the same, Pope, And 565 00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:38.599 so maybe you go see a sex worker or some kind of bedious educator and 566 00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:43.000 kind of draw the line there that you should go and explore that with somebody 567 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:46.480 else. Yeah. I hope that therapists do more of that. I do 568 00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:50.960 too. I do too, Casey, can we just bring it back real 569 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:52.760 quick, just for a second, will you tell us more about your session, 570 00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:58.800 which one oh yeah, of course meant yeah, yeah, Oh it 571 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.239 was amazing. I mean, I think it really just lowered both of our 572 00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:07.360 anxiety and we need to go again. Is really the moral of this story. 573 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.880 But I think I talked a little bit about my stubbiness. What I 574 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:15.000 understand. I know that I'm a little bit braddy. I know that there 575 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:17.920 are certain forms of dominance that don't arouse me that I don't respond to. 576 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.280 So for example, like if somebody were to call me slut or whore like 577 00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:24.400 I don't like that, that doesn't arouse me. I note aroused a lot 578 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:28.079 of people doesn't arouse me. So it was helpful to just start to put 579 00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:32.480 language to those things because I think mal exploring her dominant side. I think 580 00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:36.719 she was starting out with some of the shame that the Yasu's described earlier, 581 00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:38.440 what does it mean about me that I want this? And it was so 582 00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:44.360 relieving for her to hear that that dominance doesn't mean I'd like hurting people. 583 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:45.800 In fact, it was the way that I was asking her to take care 584 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:49.800 of me. And when she reconceptualized it that way, she was so much 585 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:53.119 more open to it. I don't think she fully even knew that there were 586 00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:57.400 many options for what dominance looked like. So that opened a lot of doors. 587 00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.760 So even within a ninety minut a session, I think it just it 588 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:07.320 opened a million conversations and lowered our anxiety. And it wasn't therapy, I'll 589 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:09.880 clarify that. You know, she was very much holding the fact that we 590 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:15.760 had anxiety. But the questions were not trying to go deep into our past 591 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.639 or deep into trauma, nothing like that. It was it was more like 592 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:24.000 present focused. How does this relate to the types of negotiations and scenes that 593 00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:28.360 you want to be in acting together? So it's very very cool. Highly 594 00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:30.719 recommend that's so cool to hear, And has it made a big difference for 595 00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:34.960 you in terms of what your exploration is? I mean, like now, 596 00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:37.960 the two of us started at a zero, and I would say we're at 597 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:44.280 a three now Yes, yeah, progress, I love yes, yes, 598 00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:47.519 and we're moving right along and yeah, it was it was essential. And 599 00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:51.800 we're about to book like ten more sessions. Oh wow, okay, going 600 00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:57.119 from a three to a seven. Maybe hopefully hopefully next season when we have 601 00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.480 you on, yes, I'll have more to say. Yeah. I remember 602 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.360 when you like had that appointment. You're like, I, me and Mal 603 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:06.079 have an appointment with a dom. Gotta go. I was like, work, 604 00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:09.239 work, Like, okay, I don't know if you'll keep this in, 605 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:15.400 but I do remember. I remember getting an email from Casey maybe like 606 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:17.840 eight months ago, sent to maybe all the managers or something, being like, 607 00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:22.960 hey, does anyone have any like recommendations for a dom for Mal and 608 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:28.360 I parentheses not somebody that works here? And in my mind empathy aka me, 609 00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:34.719 you're asking if anyone know any doms that aren't Yeah, I believe it 610 00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:37.480 or not, You're not the only dom that works at TG. But yeah, 611 00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:39.280 I pretty much. Just sorry, there's at least one another one. 612 00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:45.239 I just thought it was so I know it's not a really inappropriate working about 613 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:49.639 this. I regrets I remembers about that. No, I feel that speaks 614 00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.559 to our work environment that we get to create, you know, we get 615 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.960 to define all the things. So I love that, right, right, 616 00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:59.800 I have the resource such a good point. That's such it's like my own 617 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:02.960 st agmatization, because if we're saying that therapists should be referring out to sex 618 00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:07.199 workers more, there really is no reason that we can't talk about it as 619 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:10.119 if it's yea a mental health and physical health and spiritual health referral. Yeah, 620 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:15.280 absolutely, thank you, Thank you for that. Yes, everyone's gonna 621 00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:15.840 want to work with you after this. So how do they do that? 622 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:21.679 Oh well, if you are located. Um I was going to say in 623 00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:23.639 Toronto, but there's no reason why you can't travel for me. People have 624 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:30.480 done it in the past. He simply go to the Ritual Chamber dot com 625 00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:32.400 and you can learn more about the dungeon that I work at. You can 626 00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:37.159 peruse through all of the dominance as well as the professional submissive that works at 627 00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.719 the space. It is a beautiful beautiful dungeon equipped with a medical room, 628 00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:45.880 a schoolroom, all kinds of sex furniture. It's an amazing space. If 629 00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:50.480 you're interested in looking at more of my sex work base to social media, 630 00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:53.960 you can follow me on Twitter at the non Binary Dom. But if you 631 00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.559 just want general sexiness, shenanigans, hearing about polyamory, sex for all the 632 00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:04.320 things that I do, you can follow me on Instagram at yaz dot The 633 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:09.119 Human Work. Thank you so much, Yea, thank you for being here, 634 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:15.000 Thank you for having me. I'll be seeing you at work in ten 635 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:28.599 minutes. This week's safe Word is Porpoise and was given to us by star 636 00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:31.840 Man Thank You. Safe Word is hosted by Casey Tanner and Kemmil Lewis and 637 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:37.159 is produced by coordinator et Townsend. Our theme song is written and performed by 638 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:39.400 Emma Jane and Toria Rainey. To support the show, please follow us on 639 00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.920 Spotify and take a moment right now to give us five stars. We also 640 00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:49.679 love rave reviews on Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to podcasts. Every other week 641 00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:52.440 we put a question box out on Instagram giving you the opportunity to ask for 642 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:57.920 advice on the topic at hand. To submit long form questions in writing or 643 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.280 your own voice. Go to the safe Word or Quick your Sex Therapy Instagram 644 00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:04.599 page and click on our link tree in the bio to write out longer form 645 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.679 questions. If anything today made you curious about seeking support, the Expansive Group 646 00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:13.039 has a great team of therapists and mentors to discuss challenges you might be facing. 647 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:15.800 Go to the expansivegroup dot com, submit a contact form and we'll help 648 00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:21.719 get you connected. For behind the scenes look at Safeward and podcasts updates, 649 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.280 find us on Instagram at safe Word pod