Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwin Knox. This is
out of Probable here coming to you with my fantastic, thoroughly exhausted co host
Dan the Valley Dans fresh off grading every single trade that happened at end before
the twenty twenty two NBAH trade deadline, and that's on Bleacher Report. You
should definitely check it out. And we're gonna have some more trade analysis here
because all our predictions basically came exactly correct. You know. And the last
episode I was on, I said that Eric Gordon was going to be the
biggest name moved to the deadline, So you know, Kristaps porzingis Ben Simmons,
James Harden, the list goes on and on. So I was right
on the money because Eric Gordon is that good. But before we get into
any of the trade breakdowns, Dan, how's it going. I am doing
spectacular. I'm excited to get past like the deadline stuff. While I do
enjoy it. Now we get to shift to like I could say, hashtag
actual basketball, like the pious assholes on Twitter, but it's analyzing the playoff
race and all that stuff. So it's the fallout. This I love this
stuff, but it's cool to kind of break away from it. I'm excited
about that. How are you doing, I'm hanging in there. I usually
had the opposite perspective as you on the trade stuff, where like I do
enjoy the fake trades less and the trade analysis less in favor of like the
actual basketball. But I totally respect all types of fandom, and I think
you should ultimately be able to consume the NBA however you want to consume it.
So I'm personally glad to be past the deadline just so we can move
on to the other stuff. But it was a wild day. It was
a wild day. It was wild and there were a fewer moves this year
than they were last year. I know that just because I did the trade
great last year as well, But the scale of these moves were a lot
larger, and I did like it made for a more hectic week for me.
But the day of I felt like I was able to keep up with
more since they were sort of spread out, like we already, We're not
gonna true, We're not going to talk about the Pelicans, Blazers, Pacers,
Kings because we had a whole podcast on that already, Because there was
time to do it, and so I appreciated and enjoyed that aspect of it.
I was going to say, you don't like I could understand. I
want to talk about hypothetical trades or trade rumors, but now the trades are
coming, I'm fine with the actuals actual Okay, yeah, absolutely, that's
the trying to figure out, like what the nets look like now in the
sixers. Oh, it's fascinating to see how the pieces fit together. It's
just like the forty eight hours leading up to the deadline, and just like
the baseless speculation and the rumors that are clearly agenda driven in all of the
fake trades that are everywhere. Like that, that's what weighs on me.
Again, I get it. If you enjoy that stuff, more power to
you. I don't hold that against you in the slightest. It's just not
my favorite, which is totally fair. And I enjoy the fallout more than
I enjoy coming up with hypothetical deals. But I do enjoy both. Oh,
I'm calling bullshit on that. You love coming up, you love coming
up with fake trades, and you're I mean, we've had a whole episode
about this. We can we could absolutely plug that one because I think it
was one of our better episodes. But I know how much time you put
into crafting these original, unique ideas, and like they're always great. Yeah,
I think that's just more so my brain can't stop. And when you're
dealing with so many different permutations of either the same two teams or same team
in player combos, or just all these different teams that need the same thing,
I think it might just come off like I enjoy it more. I
love analyzing actual trades. When it comes to trades itself. Let's get into
the trade deadline, though, I think we need to start with the we'll
skip over sixers and nets. We don't even really know something happened there.
It was I think we didn't predict it on the last podcast, but like
it became clear a few days ago that this was getting done, Like it
was there was enough smoke. The final deal was Ben Simmons, Seth Curry,
Andre Drummond twenty twenty two unprotected at first round pick, with the right
to differ until twenty twenty three, and then a twenty twenty seven first round
pick top eight protected through twenty twenty eight, after which it becomes two seconds
all of that is headed to Brooklyn. Philadelphia got James Harden and Paul millsapp
For anyone who's just interested in this before I throw it to Adam about his
thoughts here, Brooklyn has now effectively turned Jared Allen, Karis LeVert, three
first round picks two, twenty four, and twenty six, and then four
total first round swaps into Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Andre Drummond, and
two first I always struggle with that part when it comes to analyzing a trade,
because at what point does a previous deal become a sunk cost? Brooklyn
can't undo the move to give away Jared Allen and bring in James Harden,
So how much do we still hold that against the franchise when a subsequent,
clearly connected move is made. I don't have an answer to that. I
hold it against Kyrie Irving, not the nets. Just just so we're clear.
I totally fair, that's not a joke. Totally fair. No,
But I think how you answer that question dramatically changes how you view this trade,
because if you do look at all of the asset equity that was given
up to bring Harden in and then the diminished return, it's it's it's a
disaster over a larger temporal scale, But I just I don't really want to
operate that way because that moves in the past. We're not going to change
that. So to me, this is one of those huge marquee, super
blockbuster trades. I think both sides won this one with Brooklyn. Like the
fit with Ben Simmons, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, which admittedly hinges so
much on availability, that fit is phenomenal. This team makes a lot of
sense. The qualm is gonna be who's going to play the five on defense?
Is Ben Simmons going to be able to play that role because he has
typically struggled in it, which is a fair critique. But the offense and
the rest of the defensive pieces, it all fits so well together. Seth
Curry just a tremendous addition to the rest of that lineup. They kept intact
so many of the key role players. You know, Patty Mills is still
there, Nick Claxton is still there. Beyond that, they recoup some assets,
they have some draft pick equity once again, and then from Philadelphia's side,
the easy criticism is like, Okay, maybe James Harden and Joel Embiid
aren't the perfect fit together because they don't have totally cohesive playing styles. Who
gives a shit, Like, they're so talented at the game of basketball that
at some point that has to supersede some of the fit questions, like,
yeah, maybe it's a little more ideal if Harden wants to roll more than
he wants to pop, and if they can share the ball a little better.
Good luck stopping either of those players on the offensive end. And beyond
that, Philadelphia still has a contingent of really high quality role players and secondary
figures. You know, Tobias Harris is still there. This team is loaded.
I can easily see either of these teams coming out of the Eastern Conference
if things go right, and I think both of them improved a little bit.
The I would agree with everything you said, except for the fact that
I don't know that Brooklyn improved so much as it might be more balanced,
and the you mentioned it with how is Ben Simmons going to be used on
offense type thing? We know what he can do defensively, and look,
Nick Claxton. Nick Claxton is still there, so if he's healthy, you'd
only Ben Simmons to guard centers. It's just go the other team's best perimeter
player and shut him down, delete him from the planet. Whatever. I
and I'm not as concerned. I'm like you with the Hardening and Bead fit.
I think what was big is they were never gonna give up Pyries Maxie,
which is clear now. Having like that second guy who can operate from
the point of attack and addition to Harden and Bead is like he has a
monopoly sometimes on the offense, but he can fit alongside more variants of ball
handlers than a Dwight Howard in his prime ever could, just because he has
that pop element still to his game, or just that more conventional perimeter floor
game. I think it works in the long run, in large part because,
say what, you haven't even read the piece. I really want to.
I just haven't had time dealing with all the falloff in the trade deadline
from your own Whitzman that had some detail behind the scenes what was happening with
Philly and some stuff with the nets. I'm sure there was an element of
just like Harden not clicking with Kyrie Irving, or maybe he wanted too much
control. But I also like one of the only reasons. It makes sense
for him not to want to be in Brooklyn is because of the fragility of
the entire dynamic. And I don't know if you saw this number. It's
one of those things that once you hear it, you get it, but
it also still throws you. What. No, it's not the numbers,
not seventeen. Oh no, it's not seventeen. But since two nineteen twenty
twenty, Joel Embiad has played in one hundred and fifty nine regular season in
playoff games. Kyrie and KD during that same span have played in one hundred
and seventy eight combined. So you have Kevin Durant missing an entire season there,
but that's sort of part of this equation. And then there was also
just you Kevin Durant spraining his left MCL at a time when Kyrie Irving is
not even really available every other game, and if they get into a play
in tournament or game seven, depending on what their seat is, he might
not be available to play unless he gets vaccinated or New York City changes it's
COVID nineteen vaccination mandates. I do think there's a level of him. I
don't think he wants to hang out in the corner, but he was overworked
from the moment he came to Brooklyn because of the way this dynamic shook out.
And I'm not saying he wants to do less, and he has not
played up this standard for much of this season, and he was definitely just
sort of fucking around while he was trying to force his way out of Brooklyn
and not actually request a trade. Just late it lead to the media that
he didn't want to request a trade because he was worried about the way people
have view I just found that hysterical. It's amazing. So I think that
what I'm getting at is I think this works even if you're concerned about the
stylistic fit, because James Harden clearly wants it to work. And I do
think that both teams come out of this the net specifically where you mentioned,
hey, we can't rehash what they got any other deal, I'm rehashing it
because I do think it's not the organization that messed up. I also don't
think it's a matter of their core aging out or flopping. It's Kyrie irving
submarine. The title chances of this team, and maybe him and James Harden
never would have gotten along. But this Kyrie like that and the lack of
self awareness from his comments, That's what I firmly believe is most at play
for how Brooklyn ended up here. That being said, knowing that James Harden
could have been a free agent, and I don't give a shit about how
many teams had cap space, It's like four or five at this point,
and we're talking about Indiana and San Antonio and Detroit, not an LA team,
not Chicago, not at Philly itself. James Harden would have found a
way to get where James Harden wanted to go. And even if it was
to Philly via an optic and trade or sign and trade, the price would
have went down from where it is right now. I'm not saying they wouldn't
have been able to get Ben Simmons if he was on the Sixers. What
if he wasn't on the Sixers. What if you're in a position where Tobias
Harris is all of a sudden on your team instead of Ben Simmons, or
you just got fewer assets. Seth Curry, you already mentioned the perfect superstar
compliment, and now you have two additional first round picks, at least one
of which is super intriguing just knowing top eight protected in twenty twenty seven and
twenty twenty eight. You don't know what's going to happen here. Then,
from Philly's perspective, I understand people are concerned about the risk long term James
Harden's thirty two. Will his hamstring miraculously he on now that he's traded,
we don't know. Joel Embiid is a top three MVP candidate right now.
You are obligated to make them two. Joel Embiad is a top tier NBA
candidate right now. You are obligated to make the most out of now the
next two to three years of the most important window. That's what this does.
And you have not played your You've played your best hand when it comes
to upgrading the team, but you're not You can still trade a first round
pick. I think no, you can't, but you could do swaps.
You have other players where if keeping Matissetibal is also hugest part of this,
because Joel Embiad's defensive workloads heavy enough if you would have taken like their last
really good perimeter defender. Depending on how you feel about Danny Green out there
like that would have been awkward. Tobias Harris instantly looks better, I won't
say as an asset, but as a member of this team when he gets
nudged down the pecking order. Because James Harden and Joel and Beat and Tyris
Maxie are there as opposed to like just James, just Joel and Beat and
Tyris Maxie. This made sense for both teams relative to their circumstances. It
doesn't mean they were perfect. If I'm the Nets, like part of my
grade for this trade I gave them a B is that you were unable to
make this like whether it's Kyrie, whether it's the organization, Like you couldn't
figure out a way to make this work, which is that's a problem,
Like that's a big problem. And you also, I think for the Nets
specifically, like you kind of pivoted out of your whole just plucky up and
coming mantra a little too soon. Kyrie and Katie joined you immediately, a
testament to your culture. You end up making this trade for Harden. Kenny
Atkinson's fired. There's just the Nets are just like I don't know how they'll
look back on this era but this is not a perfect it's a it's an
ideal outcome relative to the imperfect situation they found themselves. And it's the same
thing with the Sixers. They fucked up with the Ben Simmons stuff too,
but they were able. To Daryl Morey's credit, he waited. And let's
not even just this wasn't a matter of Oh, the Blazers blew it up.
So maybe Dame would have been available or would have been available this offseason.
This wasn't What are the Wizards doing? What does this mean for Bradley
Beale's future over the offseason. James Harden was never built as a star that
could be traded this this year, mid season, let alone anytime soon.
Really, no one expected that at all. There's always another guy, even
if you can't see him. And Daryl Morey was right about this. So
there's a lot to like and worry about. But I'm with you. I
don't think that both teams got better. I think Philly's clearly better, in
large part because Ben Simmons wasn't playing and James Harden will be. That's a
huge Ben Simmons were an empty roster spot plus Steth Curry for James Harden is
a pretty good trade, but in fact pretty decent. So that's where I
end up on the deal. That's seventeen was actually incorrect. I'm at sixteen
and that's the number of games in total that Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and
James Harden played together in a Brooklyn Nets uniform. And that's just that's an
unmitigated disaster considering what the franchise had to go through to put them together.
And that leads me into my other big question from this trade, and it
has to do with player empowerment, which I know both of us are fully
in favor for. We we have really enjoyed seeing like how much more power
players have been given in this modern era of basketball where they can really control
their own fates more. I know that we both think that that trade requests
and sometimes trade demands are well within a player's rights. This struck me as
a little bit of a bridge too far. I don't think that I want
to, you know, relitigate the Ben Simmons Philadelphia seventy six ers organizational nightmare
and try to hand out blame and assign blame. He could have been well
within his rights to demand that trade and refuse to play. We don't know
all the details of that situation James Harden, though, I mean, ultimately,
Simmons did sign a contract extension to stay in Philadelphia. And you can
make the argument that, you know, the CBA is structured so that it's
almost guaranteed that players are going to sign those max rookie deals because it's so
obviously in their best interests financially. He still did sign it, and Harden
did ultimately request his way out of Houston, landed in a spot of his
choosing, and then that he chose over Philly, and then this quickly after
makes another demand to be moved. May have been sitting out, may have
been injured, We don't really know. I just I wonder about the precedent
that this sets moves of this magnitude that are coming so quickly into decisions that
were agreed upon by player and team, because ultimately, like there are still
contracts, we do still operate in a contract oriented NBA, And I just
don't know how teams are supposed to operate when there's always this looming over any
situation. You know, you name a star and if things don't go right,
is this the outcome, because that's like, that's a pretty stark departure
from where we were before. And again, like I don't want this to
come across as not being in favor of players having autonomy and control over their
situations, but there do have to be checks and balances in place, or
else we end up with an unrecognizable leak. Yeah, that's a great point.
I think, just it's probably tough for me to care about that in
this instance because I really do think that if not for Kyrie Irving being Kyrie
Irving, that this situation might have been salvageable. I just I can't get
to that point he was, We're talking about James Harden's on the court and
not giving us all, Like Kyrie Irving was in the media session saying like
they want full buying or he can't wait till they can all play together and
you haven't given it, But James Harden, me, James Harden and me
had an excuse or I know that he was worried about public perception of him.
He's a borderline sympathetic figure in all this relative to how he was viewed
when he forced his way out of Houston. And look, he's never been
a real free agent before and when your contracts coming up, Like if this
was James Harden doing this when he had three or four full seasons left on
his deal, what Ben Simmons is doing, but he was doing it in
the way that you know, James Harden never would have been dragged under the
bus the way that Ben Simmons was by the Sixers, or he never would
have been dangles so freely in trade talks for another James Harden the way that
Ben Simmons was. And so that's what I think the difference here would be
that being said, you are absolutely right, because there are players who are
going to be better than Ben Simmons who could look at this situation and see,
oh, he eventually got out of there. He had alled out,
but he got what he wanted. I think what we really have to see
is what's going to happen when this is all eventually settled over the offseason with
is Ben Simmons going to get any of the fine money back? What does
the NBA do if he does, or like what happens if he does just
instantly return to the nets after saying that he couldn't mentally play in Philadelphia,
that will probably be have a bigger impact on the way people view this and
a bigger ripple effect in terms of opposing stars viewing it this way. And
the other thing that I just won't worry about. I need to see this
happen again, like in a situation where the team isn't necessarily at as much
fault or is happening even earlier than like this. And I'm using Zion Williamson
as an example. My whole thing is, I don't I'll believe it that
he'll sign, threaten to sign his qualifying offer, or trying to agitate his
way out for a second contract when I see it. And I also it
is tough for me to you know, check some balances. Yes, totally
important, It's are just tough for me to These players are essentially most of
them when we talk about player empowerment, they're under team control for the first
between seven and nine years of their clin I'm still in favor of abolishing the
draft in favor of a better system. You know, I think we've talked
about him on this podcast before, like you know, giving teams flexible amounts
of money based on finishes and letting them make off first to incoming rookies,
and the rookies get to choose if they want location or money or whatever the
case may be. I will say, what's also we talk about player empowerment,
it's like the top point one percent of the NBA that has empowerment,
they're they're only a handful of player. Ben Simmons he like he didn't have
the power to force this. The Sixers would have if games Harden doesn't become
available. I'd be willing to bet a not insubstantial amount of money that he
doesn't get moved until the off season at least, and he okay, probably
still gets moved. He probably still gets moved. But like, ultimately,
if you look at all the recent trade demands or like sit out situations,
Yep, Jimmy Butler got out of Minnesota, Anthony Davis got out of New
Orleans and went exactly where he wanted to. We have this one now,
Like, ultimately, there's an increasingly lengthy track record of these demands being met
with very few concessions, and it does only affect the top one percent of
players. Like if if any you know, throw out any name you want,
If Michael Bridges, I don't know why that came to mind. But
if he if he decides he's going to hold out because he wants to go
play in Dallas, good luck, mchel like, that's not going to happen,
right So, and that's but that's where this whole things get gets iffy.
And the other thing is too, is even though these players are confining
their team to in certain cases markets of one, Anthony Davis and the Lakers,
James Harden in the sixers, he has the Knicks on his list.
Come on now, James, No, this time around, he didn't have
the Knicks on Anthony Davis. Oh, Anthony, yeah, right. So
even when they're confined to markets of one or two, they are still getting
looking with the Pelicans a d look that's got for Drew Holiday. And that's
another case where he didn't agitate his way out that New Orleans made that decision.
It's a really complex topic. I do think it'll be worth revisiting what
happened. There's gonna be an arbitration related to Ben Simmons at some point this
offseason. I imagine that, you know, I'm sure that will be something
teams are watching around the league super closely. Let's talk about the Mavericks and
Wizards trade. They both that move was weird when it was reported. I
just it was just weird. The Mavericks received Spencer Dinwoody and Deavis Berton's and
they sent Christos Porzingkis in a second round picked to Washington. Amid the backdrop
of all this, Washington sent Aaron Holiday into the Sun's disabled player exception.
They also sent Montres Harold to Charlotte for Vernon Carey Jr. And Is Smith.
Let's start with Dallas. Do you understand the impetus for this deal?
Not in the slightest. It doesn't make any sense to me. And this
is kind of where I go on my like, I think Kris stops Porzingis
was massively underrated this season, where Like, there were flaws in his game
because he's by no means a perfect player, but he played some really good
basketball and ultimately did make that team better. In the NBA Math Rolling Player
Rating MVP Predictor, he actually sits thirty first overall heading into tonight's games,
I think it's slightly overselling him because you know, some of the per game
stats that he's racking up are a little less meaningful than they could be but
like he was playing really good basketball for the most part, and to just
essentially like move him for I don't even know why they wanted to make this
move because Burton's is one of the worst contracts in basketball. He's effectively a
way worse similockrum of Kris stops Porzingis on the offensive end without any defensive presence
Dinwoody, you know, like, ultimately, what is he adding to this
team that it didn't already have in Jalen Brunson, And you know, when
healthy Tim Hardaway junior and he was clearly struggling in Washington. Maybe there were
some motivation issues in play, but I just I didn't understand it whatsoever.
This was like a big fat F for me. I gave them a D.
I understand if they were trading for Spencer. One of the things that
we need to talk about is why why signed Spencer Dinwoody using cap space this
summer? Like you could have when you could just overpay Tim Hardaway junior and
then trade Chris stops Porzingis or Spencer Dinwody later. That makes perfect sense.
Alexy brand thinking right there, I do think if Spencer Dinwoody is is Spencer
Dinwoody. He adds an element of rim pressure and more creativity than Jalen Brunson
wood and just sort of a co attacker that Luke Dancers hasn't really had.
That being said, he's having a down year. He's not getting to the
rim nearly as often, which is what they need him. Four. I
will say maybe the floor should be a little bit more open in Dallas.
I also think there were struggles with him coexisting alongside Bradley Beal. Jason Kidd
has shown some willingness to nudge Dontech off the ball. Maybe that helps.
I'll push back against the notion of Berton's too. I think he'll open the
floor way more than Chris Stops for them, because one, he's not as
vain when it comes to his touches where Chris Stops wanted to take care rangers
wanted for post ups. And also, his shooting is functional. It's not
just picking pop stuff and he's no, he's not taking off the dribble jumpers.
He can fly around screens. He's taking tough, long contested three point
looks. All of that said, he was barely playing in Washington, and
he seems like he's been off ever since he had COVID last year. I
don't know if that's a contributing factor. I don't know if not enough playing
time as a contributing factor. He was the single worst contract that was traded
in this deal, though. I want to make declearor three years and forty
nine million for what was at the time like Washington's tenth or eleventh guy.
That's not great. And yes, Chris Stops was owed like what was Christops
would like the eight million whatever it was over the next two years. Washington
kind of shortens its like commitment on the Ledger, so they're a little bit
more flexible when you look ahead two off seasons from now. I don't I
still don't under now me saying that there are good points to these players for
Dallas. I still don't understand the motivation. Is it because you were so
worried that John Brunson might leave in free agencies, so you want to have
Dinwoody. Do you think that is going to be easier to move either Dinwoody
or Baton's over the off season because they're two smaller salaries as opposed to moving
Chris Stops. Are you that worried about Christops's latest I think he's having to
right the issue right now, and he's still not adorable. His defense has
been better this year, it's also not what it was when they traded for
him. So you're overlooking the really obvious explanation here. Well, that might
be the case because as we're recording this, done has forty three points and
thirty one minutes against the Clippers. No, the really obvious answer is that
Mark Cuban and Spencer Dinuity wanted to talk crypto with each other. Now they
get to do it. Did you see the tweet about Yeah, I'll send
it to you after this. I can't even describe it. It was hysterical.
But yeah, maybe maybe it's that I don't I don't understand logic.
And if it's about getting flexibility sooner, because now it's like, oh,
it'll be easier to move did Witty and Burton's, then it would be to
just move Christops alone because you can, they're smaller salaries, break them up
to different teams. Maybe they'll move him hardaway Junior. Now we gotta stop
with flexibility being useful for the Dallas Mavericks, Like it's we've the ship has
sailed. I personally can't wait to see the next player they fail to sign,
though, it's always really exciting to see who they're going to target and
then swing and miss on, and then here the post talk justifications for how
Cuban like didn't really want them. My old thing is just like, I
don't even know what the path to them being imminently flexible is. They just
extended doing Finny Smith four years, fifty two million dollars. I think it
was a solid move. Joe Brunson cap hold, solid move. Jalen Brunson's
cap hold will be small, so you could technically have spending power go over
the cap to resign him. But as of right now, they're like within
ten million dollars of the tax next season. So and I'm not even sure
is is this including the extension for Dorian Phinney Smith. No, So it's
just like their path the flexibility is just I don't know where people even got
that idea. Between Tim Hardaway, Junior Spencer, Dan Witty, and Davis
Berton's next season, you're looking at about fifty six million dollars, and then
there's Luca dont just thirty five point seven million dollars masks, which you gladly
pay. That's just like you're already passed the ninety million dollar marker. There,
there's no and that's Dwight Pale's making eleven. Reggie. Is it possible
that this move leads into a Hardaway sell off in the off season. It
could, but that's not even My point is that's not even gonna get them
meaningfuls. They could trade him into someone else's. Maybe it kind of helps
you in twenty twenty three, like my Bretick doesn't have, Like the book,
it's so hard to project that far out when so much changes. So
yeah, they could. It looks like have if they get rid of Hardaway
and add no more money between now and then you get rid of Dinwoody,
you could have a lot of flexibility in twenty and twenty three where you wouldn't
have had that with Chris Stops. That would not make it worth this deal
to me. And maybe Breton's has a renaissance. Maybe. Also, I
thought it was an interesting flex for Dallas to trade its best rim protector when
they're twenty eighth and opponent vee goal percentage at the rim. They have done
a good job of a limiting of limiting opponent shooting opportunities at the rim,
and their defense is sixth in points alot of per possession this year. They've
done a great job getting back in transition. Does that sustain without Christaps Porzingis
I'm not saying he was the heart and soul of the defense. I'm just
saying it does feel like they're more vulnerable in the middle. Are they planning
on drafting a big Are they gonna get another one in the like the buyout
market. I'm I don't understand this move unless they think that Spencer, Dinwoody
and Davis Burton are like these distressed assets and that Chris Stops is a huge
net negative on a salary, which I will leave the door open that it's
a possibility, but that is way too many ifs on Dallas's part. Oh,
if Chris Stops continues to stay like keep getting injured or reverts, if
Spencer didn't really gets a lot better after coming off a Partiley toward ACL,
if Davis Berton's is able to play a lot more minutes and not submarine or
defense. There's just there's too many ifs here, And when you're making this
type of a trade, it feels like there needs to be like fewer of
those does. I do want to pose one trivia question to our listeners,
and I have no idea what the answer to this is. But I'm very
curious now which country has had the fewest number of players in NBA history and
had two players from that country traded for one another? Because Latvia has had
seven players in NBA history and now two of them have been traded for each
other? Is that the leading figure? Can we get better than that?
Somehow? I don't think so, that would be my guess. I'm guessing
that this is the record, But I also just don't want to do the
legwork there. So if anyone's listening it is really bored. Let us know.
What do you think about the Wizards trade deadline? I rattled off everything
they just did. It's very wizard zen Is that is that a good word?
Is that a valid word? Like? I don't know, I have
no idea what the direction of this team is, and just ultimately like you're
putting a lot of pressure on is Smith right now? I think it does.
It does free up some minutes for some of the younger players. How
intriguing are they are? I feel like this deadline is setting the stage more
for an inevitable Bradley Beal trade than anything else, because I think the pieces
in Washington are a little bit too competitive to thoroughly tank out, but all
so just not good enough that you're going to get anywhere unless you just see
absolute explosions from Denny Avia and Ruby Haschimura, which I don't know that I
want to count on right now. See, I think they got the highest
upside player in this deal in Kristaps Porzingis, And so if he pans out,
and he's theoretically a good fit with Bill right for sure, and if
he doesn't pan out, like I said, you're out from yeah, Spencer
dimit. He would have come off the books next season. But I think
he even still has like half his salary guaranteed, Like it's not it's it's
a non insubstantial amount. So you're getting out from money one year sooner in
the event it doesn't work out, And I think it's still I feel like
they're even better straddling a line between we don't know what we're gonna do,
but we've left a lot of different avenues open, and yeah, I just
I just worry about that strategy when you have an asset and Beal, who
has already been rumored to maybe want out, even though he's never said as
much for what like eventeen straight years. Now, well, I look at
it this way, though, if he wants out, here's what's gonna happen.
It'll be via sign and trade this offseason, in which case they're gonna
get compensated, or it'll come after he signs his extension at something. The
latter is more likely, and which case you're still gonna get compensated for his
departure, and you have another season to sort of see if this turns into
and how many times can you set yourself back you're not, I mean,
okay, well Bradley Beal's out for the season, so they were set back
anyway. Now you've ensured I mean maybe if we want to be like assholes
about this, we could say, like, oh, was having not playing
Dallas Burton's and having special gimity helping your tank Chris Stops was dealing with the
right issue at the time of his trade. You lost Bradley Beal anyway,
and I think you've removed some of your like collective upside just because now you've
just obliterated your playmaking is what I'm getting at, is no spencer Gimmy right,
Bradley Beal's injured. You got rid of Aaron Holiday, who wasn't smith?
You have a smith. And I also think what I also think is
the side benefit of this, And so not only if you increase your what's
going to be a lottery pick, I would be lave at this point,
you're also allowing yourself to give more on ball looks to a deni avdio,
which I think is important because I see the outlier someone who can do a
lot of things on the ball. There. Maybe you're also testing testing out
kuzmun KCP there. What is my If you're going to give more touches to
Ruy Hachimura, they do seem to like to let him, you know,
do things on the ball. I don't really want to see more of that
selfishly, but I actually I admire their ability to pivot out of what initially
seemed like a quality middle of the road when now situation to where are they
still viewing themselves? Is that? Maybe? But I also don't think they're
guaranteed to view themselves as that. And this trade, to me, not
only did they I mean, look, frankly, they got the best player
in this deal, even this season they did, and they've also opened up
their options moving forward. I unless you thought, unless you just weren't happy
with their team. I just I don't know why you would dislike this,
I guess is my point. I don't really dislike it so much as not
like it. I'm very neutral on it. I think my only rebuttal to
your points here is just that we've seen so many times throughout NBA history that
these rebuilds with young players who are lining up in the front corridor on the
wings, their development can be hindered without a point guard or a guard,
an attacking guard making their lives a little easier. It develops bad habits,
It prevents you from getting the opportunities that you need. And this guard rotation
is pitiful without denuity and with no one coming back. So that's that's my
biggest concern, is how you lander here is just off the charts, off
the charts. Are you actively hindering your own growth process by virtue of making
this move? Especially like porzingis like he's a little shot happy. He likes
to he likes to get some looks up, So if you anybody aren't there,
I'll feel they'll feel way better. I'll feel way better about this move
if porzingis knee is treated with a lot of caution, or if he's shut
down. Let's just say if Porzingis's lower body is treated within but maybe just
Porzingis in general fair enough. I guess I just view it as for all
the reasons you're concerned, I view it as a positive that they're going to
get to test out all these different types of looks, and they've also looked
if Christops is healthy, and you want to talk about seeing what he can
give you in an expanded role. You got rid of basically all your other
main bigs with you've tried to showcase Thomas Bryant. You don't need to continue
to do that. Yes you have Daniel Gafford, but like you got rid
of all your primary ball handlers, including Beal because of his injuries, So
you yourself didn't get rid of Beal. But the pathways open to let's just
plumb the depth of what we have here, and if it's shallow, if
it sucks, we're gonna know it and we'll just accordingly over the offseason.
I don't see how this hurts their plan, and unless Bial just looks at
this team and says, oh, no, I want out, Like I'm
gonna oppt in and demand a trader. I wanted to assign and trade.
But again I'd point out a lot of people wanted the Wizards to do that
two years ago, and they're still gonna be able to capitalize on Bill's departure.
To me, this trade only misses the mark if you view Chris Stops
as the vessel through which you're going to become a contender. Where Bell wanted
Sabonis and they got him another Caucasian big who is just not as good as
Sibonis, while also while also getting rid of Spencer didn't what he's pep talks
or whatever. I don't know if you saw that very uncomfortable sound bite where
he was like, I tried to be a leader and talk, but they
didn't like it. I'm pretty sure that Dan is currently advocating for Kris Stops
point singis, and I just I don't know where we go from there.
No, look the whole Chris Stops with post ups and mid Rangers. No,
it's he doesn't need more, he doesn't need any so I would play
with this back to the basket and get more post up touches. What do
you think, Chuck, we're actually gonna move on because I'm pretty sure that
I am contractually Yeah, you're allowed to respond to that. Let's talk about
the I liked what the Wizards did, Adam hated it. So at FROMO
zero nine, well at him a great characterization. The Celtics had a busy
deadline. They are and I couldn't. I'm glad Keith Smith, who's way
smarter than I am with this stuff. And I'm always gonna mispronounce this site's
name. But spo Track Keith Smith of spo Track or is it spot Rack?
I've always said spot rack in my head, but I don't know that
I've really said it out loud. So, and I've listened to podcasts with
him on it, and he's been on this podcast twice. So Keith Smith,
everyone knows who he is, says the Celtics have five roster spots.
And that's what I counted when I was doing my grades. I have never
seen that type of tax ducking, roster spot cutting at a mid season trade
deadline. Ever, they didn't need to shed a lot of money to duck
the tax let may be clear, but they opened up five roster spots.
I'm assuming they're gonna be players on the buy out market, but sort of
the Bucks did. Their deals were their biggest one. They got Derek White
from the Spurs for Josh Richerson Romeo Langford, this year's first round pick at
top four protection. They sent Spencer Dinwoody or Spencer Dimity Bull Bull and PJ
Dojer to Orlando, and I think they only used the second round pick to
grease the wheels of that. And then they also sent Enis Freedom, Dennis
Shrewder and Bruno Fernando to Houston for Daniel Tice, who they had originally traded
to Chicago to also ductor. That's got some mileage right now. The quick
note on the Rockets here, because I don't think we need to talk about
they didn't well, maybe we'll talk about them. We'll save it for the
Rockets. But I will say this is kind of an admission by the Rockets,
like, oh shit, maybe we shouldn't have given Daniel Tye three guaranteed
years when we had Christian Wood and drafted Alperham Shangoon. I will say,
the opportunity costs for them is nothing. You're waving enis freedom and now you're
getting out like they didn't have to go up any draft equity to offload Daniel
Tye, and you're also getting up Flier and Dennis Shrewder, who I wonder
if he would be a low key buyout candidate since he doesn't have bird rights.
I honestly don't know. But if you don't like he provides, I
understand that he's just like volatility incarnate. But he also might provide like some
semblance of structure to the offense as opposed to a KPJ at point guard or
not playing John Wall or using DJ Augustine. Josh Christians first shown some things
this year, so I didn't have a problem with this move. From their
perspective, What did you think about what Boston did, especially get they bought
and soul is what happened Like they were they were buyers and sellers. It's
like Boston made no sexy moves whatever. But Derek Wise is sexy. I
don't think so when you're giving up a first round pick. But let me
finish here, because I do think that every move they made was a good
one, Like, none of these are going to be headline grabbers. I
don't think that Derek White is a star. I think he's a good supporting
player who should fit in well and was worth the cost of that first round
pick. But none of these moves are like game changers to me so much
as just good mid level upgrades. I don't really feel like giving Boston's ownership
credit for ducking the luxury tax. If you want to do that, then
you can up the grades for these moves in totality, But just in terms
of the on court product, I think the Celtics improved just a little bit.
I what you give them credit for is the five roster spots. You
want to talk about a selling point, I don't know if that's Is that
a selling point for the buyout market? I don't think so, because what
who's going to be on the buyout market and is going to go to Boston?
Because that's a two part thing, like I have, I don't know.
I don't know which player is going to get bought out and be like,
yeah, I want to join this this low Eastern Conference playoff contender.
I mean, Boston's played a lot better in recent weeks, Boston's been super
hot on defense and ler, but I still don't think that you're holding them
up against Milwaukee, Philly in Brooklyn right now, I don't know with the
way that their offense in Miami, let me definitely not forget to put Miami
in that mix. JJ Reddick would yell at me. Otherwise I would probably
stash. I'm more. I'm still higher on Toronto, who will get through
than Boston. But I think Boston, with the way their offense has been,
their defense had slipped a little bit. But now you're adding Derek White,
I mean Robert Williams, Derek White, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown,
and Marcus Smart. Holy hell. I do think a large part of the
buyout market is guys if they want a more expensive next contract or probably gonna
want playing time. I think Boston can offer some just sort of when you're
they only go ten players deep right now, and you look at Nie Smith,
Peyton Pritchard, those are guys that aren't guaranteed playing time. I would
say Daniel Pie doesn't have to be guaranteed playing time. I would say they're
if you're a big should he should be to Key Horford healthy though, for
the playoffs, right, and so my point is, if you're big,
I don't know why you go to Austin. But if you're a point guard,
just because Derek White and Marcus Smart aren't really even if you're like if
you're a Gary Harris, maybe not because you have Jason Tatum, Jown Brown,
Derek White, Marcus Smart. So I and I'm also a lot higher
on Derek White than a lot of other people. I think he's gonna give
them more stable ball handling than a Marcus Smart or Dennis Shrewder in the sense
where those guys might throw the nifty or more complicated passes. I just feel
like Derek White plays within his own limits better on the ball. The question
how many injury replacements would you need for him to be an All Star?
We're not. Well, let's turn to our MVP predictor from MBA math.
Maybe lose my train of thought here, Oh the thing I'm The thing I'm
concerned about is the shooting on this team. Josh Richardson by percentage, was
the most efficient perimeter player from deep for the selfis the season. Him and
Grant Williams just flat out with their two most efficient three point shooters. Now,
the level of difficulty on Jason Tatum shots that has to factor in.
He's been better lately, you still gave up one of your more accurate shooters
for a guy who's shooting under thirty two percent from this year, second consecutive
season he's been under thirty five percent. I would imagine his shot quality in
the half court could improve with Boston, but that's still this team needed lights
out shooting and still needs lights out shooting. To me, with all of
that said, what I do like about this deal for Boston is it sets
them up to sort of play within the flaws of their roster even better than
it did before, where you have even more secondary playmakers. But I like
White a lot better than Shruder at both ends. He's also not playing for
his next contract like Dennis Shruder was, and moving forward, Yes, this
helps you next season if your roster stays the same. But Derek White sixteen
point four million next year, Marcus Smart seventeen point two, Daniel Tie eight
point seven, Robert Williams ten point seven. You have like a lot of
these good middle rung salaries on high quality players. I know some people view
the Smart extension as Albatross. I don't know if you're in the same camp
as that. I know he's not shot the ball too well this season,
but I think it's valuable enough in enough other ways that I don't So my
point would be to be able to do those different moves and still be picked
neutral after this season, Like you convey this pick to San Antonio, where
a lot of people aren't high on this draft. Outside the lottery, that
does always stand to change. YadA, YadA, YadA. You can do
things. And I would think even if you're looking at this is from a
pure asset play, because I do think there's some like there's some real overlap
between like Smart and White, and then you really don't have an actual floor
general. From pure asset play, I would say that you're more likely to
get more moving forward as Derek Derek White's contract shortens. I think you're more
likely to get above a let's say a pick in the twenties plus Josh Richardson.
Then like you'll get more for Derek White than you would just for that
package if you flipped it next season. I liked a Boston did overall.
I think they're they straddled there. We want to save. We want to
duct the tax that we set the repeater clock. I understand why they did
that. We don't need to applaud them for it, but to do that,
I will applaud them for doing that. While still I think exiting the
trade deadline is both a better more flexible team moving forward. I do I
agree with all that. I think my biggest concern is just the coaching,
because it puts a lot of pressure on a first year head coach in Emaudoka
to figure out how to maximize this relatively unorthodox and deep roster. It's one
of those where if it was an established coach running the show here, where
I had full faith in the creativity and the ability to drop up all these
different sets with the secondary playmaking, it would be really intriguing. And I
don't want to rule him out from doing that, but it puts a lot
of pressure on him in year one. That is fair. But considering where
they were, like they're kind of on the trap and now they like this
might make that easier on him. But yeah, yeah, there is still
a timeline and play here though. With Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown, you
know, we already heard some of the cries from Celtics faithful early in the
season about like is it time to break this up already? And how much
how long do you have with that core tandem before that pressure built? So
it's just it's it's it feels like a volatile situation that could be a distinctly
positive one. Fair enough, I let's move on to a different team.
Let's let's actually cover the spurs end of this. But they also sent Thaddeus
Young to Toronto for a protected first round pick and gore On Dragic. They
also sent Drew you Bank. So I was mad that Toronto waved. I
thought he was someone that could actually help them if anyone cares to, you
know, to think of put the thought in into that. But yeah,
so they get go twenty twenty first round pick lottery protection this year. Top
thirteen protection in twenty twenty three turns into two seconds if it doesn't convey they
that they also turned Brent Forbes into two second round picks essentially. And the
other thing is like, now that from from that DeMar de Rosen sign and
trade, they left that with two first round picks because they used that he's
going to get another and bring that one up for sure, and imagine if
they'd actually played Thaddeus Young, because they've gotten even more for them, I
would say I'm gonna say no, just because I was shocked that like this
was this was available for him. So what did you think of sort of
the Spurs. They've committed now to this rebuild, and this as close as
you're going to see them commit to the rebuild. I just to since we're
talking about them in some I do want to say, I do want to
point out quickly I'm sure you would too. White and Murray have always been
an awkward fit to the point like this is the first season that they've played
real, meaningful playing time together, and I think it was I don't want
to say important to separate them, but even if you're San Antonio, you
could probably not view this as a rebuild, just because it kind of makes
some sense to separate them. Regardless, and dejan Day Murray, who would
have who is an injury replacement all star just like you predicted. He played
so well that he has. If he's not their tent pole star or a
conventional tent pole star, he's flirting with that status and he certainly holds it
within that organization now I think they look at him as okay, like this
is our direction at the moment, I think he's there. Yeah, I
know. I like the moves. In some as this is as anti san
Antonio as a mid season set of San Antonio moves could be, because typically
this is an organization that just doesn't wheel and deal at the deadline. So
to come out swinging with all of these moves, all of which made sense,
was so uncharacteristic. And I do think that they all allow the Spurs
to continue doing what they've done well, which is straddle eris. You know,
they do still have draft picks coming in, they do still have some
veteran presences, and they do have players to build around. You know,
you mentioned Dejante Murray, who is unquestionably the centerpiece here, but Jaka Purdle
has played really well. Zach Collins is healthy and on the floor again.
Jacques Landale has looked good and limited run. Keldon Johnson has some has some
fun things that he does on the court, even if he has yet to
parlay them into a consistently effective package. I would follow him through a brick
wall, mostly because he would have paved a nice little doorway for me when
he went through that brick wall. But please carry on him. Sorry,
I still I still can't get the Gerald Wallace comparison out of my head with
him. But then, like what if Devin Vassell, you know, continues
to improve, Like there are a lot of pieces here, and the Spurs
did a masterful job of using cap space, of using veteran players to up
their coffers even more. It feels as simple as that to me. Where
this this team isn't going to make any noise this season, probably won't make
much noise next season, but it's it's on the right trajectory without needlessly setting
itself back, which is very Spursy. And even if this was the antithesis
of what they typically do with the deadline, I thought by the way that
the Mavericks were winners of this deal because there's no way Draggage days of San
Antonio, right, that would be I think I've already committed to buying them
out right, Oh they did. I didn't see that, so but I
don't know, Like, if you're a Druggage you go to Dallas when there's
I know you're tight with Luca, but Spencer, Dinwiddie and Jon runs in
are there now and almost like why not just going with the Clippers for Woach
From early this morning, the Spurs, who are trading for Toronto's Gorn Dragic
are expected to negotiate a contract buyout with Dragic among the interested. Expected to
be among the interested, expected to be interested once it becomes a free agent.
Dallas Milwaukee, Chicago Clippers. I like Milwaukee a lot for him.
I'm not gonna lie. Absolutely, Chicago makes a lot of sense too.
I think you could make a case was Boston on that list? I didn't
hear what you said. I that I was saying Chicago makes a lot of
sense, but Boston was not included there. But it wasn't on the WAAE
tweet. I mean, does Chicago make a lot of sense if lonzown Caruso
get healthy and they have Kobe White. And that's exactly why, because of
the if the so the Raptors end of this. What I wrote about this,
I was like, there are going to be people that's say the Raptors
gave up a first rounder for a player san Antonio wasn't using and drew freaking
you Banks who they then waived. I think it's important of you this through
the lens of Toronto is gonna drop down. They got what was it,
Detroit's second rounder. Yeah, they got a Detroit second round pick from San
Antonio. That Detroit second round pick is probably gonna be number thirty one.
So Toronto right now projects to be around like the eighteen to twenty two area
in the draft. You're gonna drop down a mac like twelve if you Tanish,
if you finish, you know, in fifteen, if you with the
fifteenth pick, then yeah, kind of sucks. But you've just decided,
Hey, we're gonna move down, let's say twelve spots in the draft to
get Thaddy as Young who. No, it doesn't address our need or by
the way, I don't know if it's a need. Maybe it is when
you look at sometimes had the defensive rebound, but a lust for a truer
big man. He fits with how this team wants to play. Maybe he's
not like super high octane anymore. But you talk about a decision maker in
the half court. If you're gonna have him roll, he can play some
small ball five. I think because by the way Pascal Siakam among his borderline,
he should I think he should have been an All Star over Middleton.
I don't know if that's bicy or not. I would he probably spicy.
I would say, nice, set you up for that one. You're welcome.
Yeah, you did. I talk about there's a chance that when we
do, I'm gonna have to look this is off the cuff. I'm probably
gonna give him some All NBA consideration this year. But he's also amid all
that he's quietly shooting above thirty five percent from three and Chris Bouche. While
he's not shooting the ball well, his volume, it can help. It
justifies him staying out there. He can play with Daddie is Young, Siakam
can play with Daddie is Young. The floor might be crimped, but I
also like what Daddie is Young is gonna do for their defense, Like this
is just someone who can fit with being aggressive. He is a he's a
very good helper. I'm assuming he's just better than he showed in San Antonio
when he gets actual playing time. If I'm Toronto and we're talking about straddling
to timelines, which I think is just something that they've done ever since their
championship season and maybe even dating back before that, they've said we need to
plan for the future while maximizing the present. This does that you decided,
hey, we're gonna take a player another instance of an empty roster spot.
We're gonna take that empty roster spot and move down twelve spots in the draft
to get Daddie is young. That's absolutely and you also the other element to
this, and this was actually point out by Eric Creen of The Athletic,
which I thought was really smart. You keep him off the buy out market
because a lot of the times you look at Gary Harris to be an example,
probably because he makes so much money, teams are like, we're not
going to go through the trouble of trying to match salaries with actual players because
he's just gonna get bought out. That probably would have happened with that he
is young. I I love the Raptors. I think they're so fun.
I don't I do not want to face the Raptors in the playoffs. I
don't care who I am, and I would My prediction I think on a
plot with you was they'll win a playoff series and I'll just stand by that
because they agree with you. So that being said was that he's gonna sign
with Toronto if he at the buyo market. The answer is no, like
good, So you took him out of that. That's like, that's not
an egregious price to pay by any stretch, and not at all. This
is another case where that pick is conveying this season. Failing disaster, that
pick is conveying this season, and then your pick neutral again in terms of
first rounders. So I liked this deal for them. I think I would.
I would have preferred to see them make a more aggressive play, but
if you wanted them to get a Derek White, it probably would have cost
more. I do wonder they were aside from Phoenix, they were my favorite
Eric Gordon destination. I'm curious as to I wouldn't have given up a first
round pick for Eric Gordon if I was the Raptors, I would have done
it. If I was Phoenix, just because that first round pick, well,
I guess it would have been in twenty twenty four, so regardless,
I don't know, like I wouldn't have done the Derek White trade as my
point, I wouldn't have done two first round picks something else, maybe for
Derek White. I don't know if they're at that point. So I thought
this was solid and juggles their spot nicely. And look, they still just
have so much room under the tax going forward, they're gonna be able to
make trades or just get creative. And if Scotty Barnes continues to just hit
and they're gonna play like this when you have some of their best players on
the floor. And look, the other thing this does is by not taking
on salary for next season. If you want to keep Fad, sure,
I'm sure he's gonna come cheaper than the number he's at now. You can
resign Chris Bouche. Utah want an abby without issue. And those are just
guys that are I think Chris Bouche is super important. He's been there,
one of their top six players this year, one of your long time favorites.
Yes, I was when I thought he was going to Dallas. Did
you see the report where I did? I thought he was going to Dallas
and I was like, no, I please don't give Jason kid Chris Bouche.
I mean, Chris Bouche, He's in Toronto's in my heart. You
haven't even mentioned Gary Trent Junior, who's just like a full fledged superstar.
Now another forty two point night against Houston as we're recording this, but I'm
I am just salivating over the thought of a Gary Trent Junior O g Na
Nobi, Scotty Barnes, Baddius, Young Pascal Siakam lineup. Yeah, I
don't know what, maybe even replace Trent with Bouchet, just like all of
the length and flexibility because you do have those ball handling wings. The offense
still isn't going to be good in that scenario, but I would love he
cares. It would be so fun. I don't know, Like I feel
like you threw out two allegedly hot takes, neither of which are anything more
than lukewarm, that Siakam should have been an All Star over Middleton, and
that Toronto is going to win a playoff series? Would you be okay?
On a scale of one to ten, with ten being like flabbergasted and one
being not surprised in the slightest, how where would you fall if I said
that Toronto makes it out of the East one to ten you said, right,
yeah, because the bucks and the heat exist. I'll say, like
a like a like a sevent eight around there. I think that's where I'm
at. Now like the range where like I don't know that I want to
totally rule that out. The other thing I'll say is like, yo,
we're talking about them and sort of this fucking up start, Like there's a
chance that they're fourth or third in the East. They are. They're one
loss or two losses behind the third place, the second place Milwaukee Bucks.
There there are only four games out of first in the East. Now,
I think teams like Miami and Milwaukee will certainly sustain. Cleveland I think will
be better with Lavert, but Chicago missing Crusoe Alonzo for a little bit.
You didn't do anything at the trade deadline. They said Patrick Williams is going
to come back, but that's probably at least the ways off. So let's
let's do this. Well, let's go down with Miami. Will they finish
in front of Toronto in the standings? I gotta pull up where they're at
right now? They're in first and they're you know, I know, just
the gaps. I mean, oh, four games in front of Toronto.
Yeah, Miami will finishing front. I'm gonna say they are supposed to be
Milwaukee, Yeah, they'll finish in front Chicago. I don't think so Wow,
Cleveland, I don't think so Philly. Yes, Boston, I don't
think so Eitheroklyn. I can't say yet. Is there any Simmons? If
Simmons is back in like a week, then it will. And are there
any teams below them? It'd be Charlotte or do you see either of those
things? I'm gonna I'm gonna call it now. I'm gonna call my shot.
I don't know if this is bold. I don't even think the Siakham
stuff is bold because I saw that floating around on Twitter. People, were
you talk about flabbergasted when Chris Middleton was named an All Star? Uh?
Not not only Overdrew but over Saka. I don't I love Chris Middleton,
So I'm like, I've it would have been justifiable. Middleton was a little
bit of a weird choice, is here. I think I'm just so in
love with Chris Middleton that I don't care. Maybe that's it. I view
him as I got it. He's gonna He's basically just three. She was
an injury replacement. Here's a question. Someone yelled at me on Twitter because
I said Chris Middleton's gonna be like the most low key perennial All Star in
NBA history. They told me he's not. Perennial. Does three All Star
selections in four years count or No, I feel like it does at this
point. So it's at least close enough to where that's not ridiculous for me
to say, Yeah, I don't know what the technical definition of that is,
fair enough, you heard it. It feels subjectively allowable. I'm gonna
call my shot right here now. They right here and say Toronto plays their
way into a top three playoff seed in the East. That's the standings are
close enough to where that's not a big deal. I'm saying Miami, Milwaukee,
and Toronto that'll be my top three picks the rest of the season.
I understand the pull Chicago. I think it's justified just because we've seen slippage
in their defense. They have injuries. Who knows when that will normalize.
Cleveland is still younger with Philly specifically, I just I'm not worried about the
hardening bead fit. But this isn't like Harden coming to play with Kyrie and
KD, where it felt like that was the one ball. Arguments were disingenuous.
This feels like so massive that to do it mid season there might be
more growing pains. So I'm just gonna I'm in love with the Raptors.
Who know, the Celtics got better, I know the Netscot You say better,
I say more balanced. Whatever I'm gonna say, Toronto finishes with the
top three seed in me, You're herder here first. And just to follow
up on the definition of perennial per Mariam Webster, the number one definition is
living for several years or for many years, having a life cycle that is
more than two years long. But that does assume that Chris Middleton is a
plant, which I feel we can we can confirm is not the case.
Otherwise otherwise there are not numbers included in the definitions. Okay, I think
this is the last team we cover that did something before we get to some
of the ones that and look, I just had no follow up on that.
I am just laughing. How do we know that Chris Middleton isn't a
plant? I'm fairly confident in that. Okay, fair enough, Phoenix acquired
Aaron Holiday they like covertly. I was grading these trades and we never saw
the details of what it took until, like I think it was hours later.
They did apply and were granted a disabled player exception for Dario Sarch's injury
that was never reported when it happened, so we all assumed. But they
got Aaron Holiday, they absorbed him into that and then they traded for Tory
Craig again like they did last season. They gave the most predictable move of
the entire offseason. I wrote about this move. I think it was in
November, and I came up with it myself, and I was the only
person who ever could have thought of it, just because it's that innovative,
you know, So I finally got one right. I will say someone did
congratulate me on getting that right. Even the most inefficient volume shooters are gonna
get it hit every once in a while. Like that is just not But
they traded Jalen Smith in a second round play for Tory Craig. I want,
I think there moves. I'm not high on Holiday. I think he's
like nice depth to where if you're worried about the Cameron Pain injury and you
don't want to play. Have they even said who they're waving yet? I've
been in and out of podcast ever since, so like I think I think
he's an upgrade over Alfred Peyton, but like you also might trust Alfred Peyton
to be more of a I think what I wrote about Holiday is he's like
a constant and constant and that's sort of just been his career, and I
don't think he provides enough reliable Rim pressure to say there's a dynamic here.
He's also not big enough to play with Devin Booker and Chris all at the
same time, so I think their moves. I like Tory Craig sneaky,
good rebounder. He gets hot from three for like weeks or months at a
time. I'm not saying like off the dribble ten attempts per game. Like
he goes through stretches where he hits off the catch and he gives you some
if there's space, he would put the bomber before we attack the rim.
He's going to work with their defense if they go up against teams that are
long or just with a bevy of these perimeter attackers. He helps. I
want to know one if you have any different thoughts on that. I don't
think they paid. If people point out the Jailn Smith, they could have
had Tyris Haliburton I'm over. That's the Sun cost theory. You said they
declined Jain Smith's team option. It's over. You stole my thunder. I
was gonna ask you that just to get under your skin. Look, Tyris
Haliburton, I'm all in on him in Indiana now. But we already had
a podcast about that. So do you have any different thoughts on that?
But more so, where do you land on this question of should Phoenix have
done more? Something bigger? Think? So we're about to have some words.
I think Phoenix is the favorite as is. This team is just so
good in every area. It has the pieces across the board, it has
excelled in crunch time scenarios. I think that the Suns are the favorites to
win the title right now, and just making these moves on the periphery work
nicely, I'm not I don't think that the Holiday move sways anything. I
do think that Craig gives them a little bit more defensive optionality against some Western
Conference playoff foes, and it's kind of nice that he's under contract for one
more year so they don't have to worry about him going away before he comes
back again. But I don't think that anything was necessary, much less a
big move. I'm going to disagree, and this could be a situation where
I was pretty hard on them over the offseason for not using their full mid
level, for not being more creative than JaVale McGee, and it all panned
out. I thought the camera is a three point shooter. Now the getting
cameraon Payne back. He has not been as good this year, but I
thought that a good moves, so I didn't hate it. But they had
the ability to do more. Keeping Tory Craig was something they probably had the
ability to do. Indie gave him, I think slightly more that Phoenix had
to offer, But it feels like there could was javal McGee really gonna Who
was giving Javamige more than four million a year? Did it have to be
five? Well twenty nine other teams if they knew he was gonna make threes?
So and then I was saying I thought they should have done more or
been more aggressive, only for them to turn around and have the best record
in the NBA. Maybe this is one of those instances where Monty Williams prioritizing
continuity. The other thing that was tough for them is they are so good
and so deep that what caliber of player, think about the caliber player they
need if you want him to be a part of your closing line. Because
it's Jay's Jay Crowder, Chris Paul, Devin Booker, DeAndre Ayton, and
Micaal Bridges. You're starting your preferred starting five. There's you're upgrading from Jay
Crowder there, which unless you're going out and getting like Jeremy Grant, you're
probably not doing. I also would rather have Cam Johnson than Jeremy Grant.
I think his ball skills are a little bit better. But anyway, then
you go to the bench, you're set at center, so you didn't even
know they had too many setters. This helped to clear up that by getting
rid of Jalen Smith for Tory Craig, you have Cam Johnson. It's pretty
hard to beat. Like whoever you were trading for, the bar had to
be high just for them to be the sixth best player on your team who
wouldn't be a part or guaranteed a spot in your closing lineup. So I
understand not wanting to give up. Let's just assume they were in on Eric
Gordon, because we know they were in on Eric Gordon and they didn't want
to give up the twenty twenty four first, or they didn't want to do
what Miami did amend the pick protections and give Oklahoma City the twenty twenty four
first to get the twenty twenty second back to try and send it to Houston.
The optics they are just different, because maybe you could have gotten something
from Oklahoma City, like Kenrick Williams is part of that deal, whereas giving
up a distant first for Eric Gordon as opposed to the number thirty pick right
now, Eric Gordon is a lot different. The other thing is with Eric
Gordon's specifically, I don't care about Robert Sarver's pockets, but you better believe
that because Phoenix is a threat to win a title, he would definitely be
concerned about Eric Gordon's twenty point nine million dollars salary guaranteeing in that final year.
There's all these different elements to it. What I am going to say,
and I think Sam Cooper from the Timeline Pod phrased it best, and
I'm paraphrasing here. It's just like your window isn't just now, like it's
Chris Paul and that's thirty six year old Chris Paul I would have done every
twenty more years. I would have done when he's been so durable these past
two I guess three seasons when you include his final year in Oklahoma City.
You do everything you need to to. I'm not talking one two years.
Maximize. This is even more dire than the MBID situation Philly just right now,
because you're guaranteed nothing when he gets older, or if if he gets
injured, or you know, even just as this contract ages for whatever you're
also talking about. Like, it's pretty clear. I think there's real traction
to the fact that they don't want to pay DeAndre and Max money, probably
because they're worried about what he becomes. Uh, you know a few years
down the line when Chris paul is and Chris paul so all that uncertainty the
backdrop we've covered this, but you need to I'm sorry, Like maybe,
but what if you don't. You need to maximize now. And even if
it wasn't. Eric Gordon and I know the mechanisms there were tough because they
have a lot of flexibility under the tax but he just made so much and
they don't have a ton of salary matching and I don't know who the player
was that would have been better than a Tory Craig, Aaron Holiday Combo.
I would have liked to have at least heard about them being more aggressive to
get a third ball handler who was an upgrade over Cameron Payne and bigger than
Cameron Payne in the sense that I think that's probably their biggest weakness now looking
at how they've shared up their big rotation and even their secondary wing rotation with
Craig, is just having that third high volume attacker where I think mcal Bridges
or Cam Johnson behind Cameron Payne, like those guys are going to be your
best weapons, and they need me a higher an option. But like you
said, they are the best team in the league. They could still win
the championship. They are in fact my title picks. I was just a
little bit disappointed that they didn't do something splash year. Yeah, I just
you know, you mentioned continuity early on there, and I think that's part
of it, because this team knows that it works together, It has a
lot of experience together, and what do you run the risk of upsetting if
you do make that splash year move. Things can go wrong in that situation,
and I just I think that it's ultimately like a luxury play if you
do go that route, and not referring to the luxury attacks, but you
know, adding something that isn't fully needed, so it would have been nice.
Sure, Like I won't in any way deny that I agree with your
assessment that adding one more upper tier ball handler is probably the biggest need for
this team insofar as it has a need. And that's the part that I
don't know that I agree with. Where everything works here, this is as
close to a fundamentally perfectly constructed team as we've found in like the last few
seasons. I think there have been better teams hinging on superstar power, but
this is a really really smart, really really dangerous team in every facet of
the game. The final thing team that did something we need to talk about.
I don't want to gloss over the Rainy Champs, the four team trade,
which was the first trade of the day, Marvin Bagley to Detroit Rodney
Hood and Shemmy old Delay to the Clippers. Sergebaca twenty twenty two second round
pick least favorable of Cleveland Golden State, and then a twenty twenty four second
round pick via Sacramento from Detroit went to Milwaukee. The Kings got dat de
Vincenzo, Josh Jackson, Trey Lyles. I think the team I like this
deal four least, and then I would like to talk about the Bucks.
I'm curious to what you think, and hopefully me rambling right now is giving
you time to maybe pull up the parameters of this deal, because I've got
to see if he's in a fourteen trade. I think the Pistons are like
the biggest loser. I don't think anyone lost. I just don't understand why
they had to give up a Sacramento second to get Marvin Bagley, the third
who was an afterthought in Sacramento now more so than ever following the acquisition of
simonus See. I disagree with that because I don't think I don't think there's
a loser in this trade and a small winner how about that. But I
don't even think that's true because I think it's the perfect kind of play for
this Pistons team. I mean, Badley is still only twenty two years old.
He has that top pick pre pedigree, even if he is viewed as
not Luca don Chich he's coming out of the Sacramento Kings organization. Who knows
how good he actually is. So I think this is the perfect play for
Detroit because you are not going to find a better risk reward balance than Marvin
Bagley the third right now. They did not give up much for him,
again, like twenty two years old, and the biggest asset that you're parting
with is a second round pick a year down the road. So to me,
like this is this is a good high upside play at a time when
Detroit is making no pretenses about playing competitive basketball, trying to figure out what
it has and Kid Cunningham and Sadique Bay and the other pieces. This makes
so much sense to me because if it pans out, you have changed your
trajectory entirely because he is so young and so clearly talented. Even if it
did not work out in Sacramento for reasons that I think go well beyond pure
basketball skills, that it could be a game changer, And if it doesn't
work out, you're down a second round pick when you're already flooded with young
players and other picks. So I think it was a no risk, really
high reward situation for them. And as much as I like the move for
basically every team, I think the Clippers address needs. The King's got some
relatively distressed asset in Dante DiVincenzo who could fit better with what they're trying to
do. And I love the Abaka fit from Milwaukee, especially if brook Lopez
isn't healthy. I actually viewed Detroit as the biggest of the four winners.
They might have the highest upside outcome, but which is all they should be
chasing? Right I would already push back against the idea he could change their
trajectory on his own. I think he can still be an open floor threat,
and he's kind of flashed. We've seen the floor game, especially in
open space. He's quietly shooting sixty one point five percent on catching shoot twos
this year. So I don't want to rule out Badley making an All Star
push in the future. I'm not out on him, Are you why I'm
not. I'm ready to dissolve this partnership right now. Marvin Badby is not
making an All Star appearance you want, Like I, where is this coming
from? I do not have any confidence in thinking we know who he is
as an NBA player coming out of a disastrous few years in Sacramento because he
was not given an opportunity to succeed, whether due to injuries or the rotations
and the constant coaching flux, to succeed from the start, and based on
what we saw from him at Dupe, where he was a legitimate threat to
go number one overall because he had such a modern, well rounded skill set,
and he's still only twenty two years old and now gets to go to
a place where he's going to get to play. I don't want to rule
that out. I'm not saying it's likely, but I don't want to count
out that possibility. I think you're highest shit right now. That's what I
think I'll take it. I do like to play from them, though,
And it's just like Trey Lyles is shot in the ball really well lately.
I think his role was way bigger than the Pistons ever wanted it to be.
So you make the higher upside play. Josh Jackson didn't have a spot
in their future, and I think both those guys like they might be able
to help Sacramental this season. Sacramento just needed wins, so you yet,
Josh, I know people were talking about, oh they got Justin Holliday,
and Jeremy Lamb is part of the Sabonus trade. I'll give you Justin Holiday.
Jeremy Lamb is not a win. He's like a guard like the He's
like a smaller, more slender Kyle Landerson type deal. But he doesn't play
the events. So I like just having Josh Jackson. Maybe that works.
Donte DiVincenzo, though we know the Kings have loved him, he has not
looked great since his injury last year. That being said, if he ever
returns to form, knowing what he did last year just sort of like a
connector, you do need to limit his own ball volume. I think not
shooting the ball well. This year, he has shot it better, especially
off the catch in the past, and the Kings just need more cutters around
Sabonus. I was impressed. I went back and watched while the trade deadline
was still quiet, like Sabonis is fit within the King's offense. When they
beat Minnesota, I might eat my words about what I where I said there
was, you know, a questionable fit between he and Fox. They looked
like there's some chemistry there. Devincenzo could be a part of that again,
if he stays healthy and is able to move around like he did off the
ball, and I think he instantly becomes their second best perimeter defender they have
Davion Mitchell. I don't know where you want to rank Harrison Barnes, especially
as like a perimeter defender when he's kind of a four, but he instantly
becomes one of their top three defenders. Oh, I'll say that there.
So I liked that from them to the Clippers, this was all about tax
savings for them. I think that's fine because we saw that they're willing.
They tacked on Norman Powell's long term deal this year, and also with Abaka
One, moving him opens the opportunity to sort of play just quirky smaller ball
lineups with Marcus Morris, Nick Latoum, Norman Powell, Reggie Jackson. If
Paul George comes back, you can look at that. If Kawai should come
back this season, which we already know he's not not having that other Robert
Cummington's there too. That's the name I forgot, Like they can try out
all these different small ball combinations in preparation of maybe playing that way this year.
I'm also not going to complain about Zoobots and Heart and Stein being your
primary bigs. Now, I think those guys are good. So if you're
gonna cut your tax bill in the process. While also Sergerbacca was probably gonna
leaving free agency, and you did him a solid by sending him to a
contender. He probably preferred La just living in LA to Milwaukee, but he's
on a contender now. And like you said that, I think that that
was a good piece of business for Milwaukee. It also showed, you know,
contrary to their line of thinking when they let PJ. Walker walk over
the PJ Tucker walk over the off season, they added to their tax bill
here, so while and now they have some flexibility to looking at roster spots
to play with in the buy out market, We'll see if anybody goes there.
I think Abaca clearly not the defensive player he once was. He's not
really gonna bolster your rebounding anymore. But he's shooting better than thirty eight percent
from three, and I think he's a big that can play with any one
of their other front court options. You want to use him with Bobby Portis
in those minutes, fine, you want to use him next to honest,
fine, it works, So I thought this was they might be the biggest
immediate winner. To me, I might have actually liked this deal. I
might have short term and long term. I think I like this deal the
most for the Kings. If if you view Badley's a sun cost. Now,
if Badley goes to Detroit and thrives becomes this like commodity ahead of restricted
free agency, all of a sudden, the Kings will look pretty bad there.
But this was for their purposes right now with some cost and really quickly
on the Kings, they better free Rashaun Holmes over the offseason. I don't
I just please, so bonus is there. That's fine, But sa bonus
to me is a center. I said that was with Miles Turner who shot
threes, and Reshaun Holmes has not been allowed to shoot three since he was
in Phoenix. I think, so, please, someone trade I wanted to
be Toronto. By the way, they want the Thaddius Young ro Oute.
That's fine, but someone free Rashaun Holmes. Also, if Dallas was going
to trade Christoph's Porzingius, they probably should have been making like an aggressive play
for Shaun Holmes. But neither here or there before we go too long here?
Do this feel like the rare deadline where almost every move was like a
win win? There were very few deals I hated. If we're I think
the two deals that really I just find him just defensible, the Kristaps one
for Dallas, Yeah, and the Norman Powell one for Portland was just especially
really everything Portland has done. But I also I also understand the overall trajectory
they're trying to do, but like those individual moves look bad. I don't
have a problem with the CJ. McCullum one they got was probably going to
be a lottery pick and Josh hark for him. That's that's actually fine with
me. But knowing they made that move, could have still ducked attack.
There was no reason to do the Norman Palell trade. And I know people
say, look at his contract, you could have moved that for better value
over the off season, when even when there's not as much flexibility, there
would have been more flexibility. Are you okay, I'll edit this part out.
Oh you look like you got the fame. So let's run through these
teams that didn't do anything quickly in Atlanta. Are you fine with them standing
that it's disappointing coming off the cam Reddish deal, just because that seemed like
a move the Predicate and another one. But given how hot the team had
gotten and how well the roster was working together, I'm not surprised and not
that disappointed. It doesn't feel like this roster was ready to keep up with
the superpowers in the East who are making moves. What did you think about
Charlotte traded for tres I was surprised at how many people didn't love that deal.
I guess the me the sentiment was, why didn't they swing bigger?
I see, yeah, I can't wait to see what he can do playing
with LaMelo ball Like talk about just an energy and in fusion for a team
that already has a ton of energy. Defense is the obvious concern. It
was already a struggling defensive squad that is going to get worse now. Didn't
hate it. I didn't like love love it, but I liked it.
I thought they weren't ready. They're not ready to make it all in play.
So no, he doesn't address your interior defense. But unless they've got
rich on homes, in which case do that. Yeah, but what was
the cost of that this deal opens up playing time probably for James book Knight,
which I know Hornets fans wanted, and he's been playing a little bit
more lately, at least off to the Hornets games that I've caught. And
you gave up second round equity for Tres and you mentioned his energy, he
has more ball skills like then people credit for him when we're not talking about
I don't want to see him post up really, but when we're talking about
him attacking going downhill, I said, I did write this. I'll brag
Harold attacks the rim with the relentless motor of Godzilla, having just spotted tall
buildings off into the distance. So I'm anxious to see his fit in Charlotte.
And I think not having to give up a ton of value just for
this lyre and it does deepen your big man rotation. Why not the Los
Angeles Lakers? What were they going to make the whole give up a first
round pick with Rostra Wall deal made no sense for them, right, don't
do that. Don't do that. If you can't get anything for Taylor Horton
Tucker, then they were never going to make a move. If it's a
buyout market or nothing for them. And I also think by waiting, I
don't know, will there be a player that's worth this Russ's expiring contract if
you want it, this is the monster offer, Russ's expiring contract, a
twenty twenty six swap, a twenty twenty seven first, a twenty twenty eight
swap, and then a twenty twenty nine first which can be traded this offseason.
That's like, that's gonna get some teams. I think, thinking it's
not gonna get you Jalen Brown or something like that. But I think waiting
by not giving up a first round pick now, whether it's with Russ or
Kaln Horntucker or none, will benefit them. I don't expect them to make
any noise though. I guess the only other team of Memphis not doing anything.
I know you're fine with it. Yeah, we covered that one in
a previous episode where I just I don't think you messed the vibes there.
And also Miles Turner, who I really wanted for them, was clearly off
the board the final two very quickly. What did you think about Detroit holding
on to Jeremy Grant. I was surprised. I went into the deadline not
expecting him to be moved just because I didn't think that many moves were going
to happen, But once they started flowing in, it seemed like it should
have happened. Because he doesn't like totally fit with this timeline. I don't
know. I feel like his value is going to decline a little bit as
kid Cunningham becomes more established. So I was surprised that it didn't happen.
But if the offers aren't out there, they're not out there. Yeah.
I fell on two sides of the fence where it's like, oh, Carras
Lavert got more than a first round pick. When you look at how how
far Indy moved up in the second round and cap relief, why couldn't Jeremy
Grant get you two first round picks and something similar. I'm just wondering if
his desire for that four year, one hundred twelve million dollar extension might have
scare teams off. And the Knicks did. Absolutely, We're not gonna talk
about the Warriors. They were never gonna do anything the Knicks did. The
Jazz maybe not. They didn't make any big moves aside from m kil Alexander
Walker. Jazz Knicks run with it? Were you surprised? Do you think
either of them should have done something significant? No Knicks needed to clear up
playing time for others than they did not that's a failure. Yeah, the
Knicks are just in a weird spot where they're supposed to be competitive and clearly
aren't, and they have bad contracts and they need to clear up the playing
time. It just it almost feels like too much of a mess. Who
are you're more surprised didn't get moved? Eric Gordon or Jeremy Grant? Eric
Gordon, I think I'm probably with you, and I think the team the
team that did nothing that you think needed to do something. Who just who
would you nominate for that? I think it's the Knicks where they didn't need
to view it to get better, they needed to open playing time. Just
looking at having Evan Fournier, Alec Burke's even Nolan's Noel there knowing will be
topping is still sort of Barrett, You're never going to trade Randall because you've
gotten them there, Cam Reddish. Still you gave up a first round pick
for him? Maybe giving Emmanuel Quickly a longer leash with Derek Rose out,
Like why you couldn't wind to take it for Kema Walker, I thought they
were going to do something just along the lines of not a fire sale,
but hey, we have an easier path to camp Radish actually playing like something
along those lines. It's a tough question because so many teams were involved with
this deadline that it feels like all the options are kind of taken out of
play. So yeah, like, I guess New Yorker Atlanta is probably the
right answer, even though I'm not surprised by either one. I would nominate
Phoenix thinking that they didn't do enough, but they did actually something. And
I think I'm about to go on a rant here, so one of my
favorite I don't actually know what my favorite part about the NBA isn't else,
but like I enjoy some of the pettiness of it, like that All Star
Draft with Lebron and kd Arden on the board. That stuff is fun,
innocuous, it's hysterical, And that's kind of why I started getting into NBA
Twitter, like even kind of when we had just started writing, because I
enjoyed like the jokes and the non seriousness of it all. And I've done
a better job over the past year or so sort of grappling with why it
feels like I've fallen out of love with the way that I feel we as
media bloggers fans of the game interact with one another or view it. And
I got like fatigue for so long, and I've been sort of warring with
these two different schools of thought in my head to where should we not be
talking about trades? Like there does need to be more of a focus on
the game. But I'm here to tell you as someone who's seen the numbers
and as someone who is pushed. And I was very fortunate this year I
didn't have to do a lot of pre trade work for Bleacher Report when it
got, you know, to crunch time. Yes, I was writing about
the trades, but my editors allowed me to either pass uncertain ideas they pitched
me, and I was writing about actual basketball. And I'm here to tell
you, even when you're pushing the actual basketball, some of the underrated stuff
people consume trades like that is just a fact. And it's not just writers
who are pushing editors or pushing to cover something else. The numbers are the
numbers, and those are still going to dictate a lot. Now to what
end are is the media responsible for that. It's not the people who are
probably actually doing the covering or even responsible for managing those people. It's the
people who are above them, who are above them, who are above them,
who are only looking at these bottom lines. And we tend to oversimplify
it like it's the writer's fault or the edit the company's fault, like the
NBA department's fault in this case, and it's so much more complex than that.
And what I've also, I think come to understand is, so I
mentioned this you before the podcast. You and I came into the business at
a weird time where we're not part of the original NBA blogg issphere intelligenza,
which I love so many of those people, but they're all They are also
sort of closed off where it was like you weren't if you weren't in it,
you weren't in that click. You're still just not in that click.
And then there's sort of like this new age school of thought where you can't
talk about trades. The NBA isn't focus enough on the actual product. Everything
needs to be masturbatory about. You know, players are so great and we
can't really criticize them there's also which I actually think is valuable and I credit
I shout them out on this podcast like too much, too much, but
Tara Bone bigs from that. We have a tape podcast, and Katie Heindel
specifically, who just covers a lead from everywhere and including her basketball feelings,
Substack Newsletter whatever they're called now right, they've helped me really like appreciate and
understand the human elements more to where there was a point where I was writing
trade articles and putting these disclaimers and that were being edited out and so I
had to get rid of them. But like I that stuff is important,
but it's also okay to like enjoy everything, and that's what it took me
so long to come to terms with, but was like sort of my rant
there. It's like, we don't need to you know, what middle grounds
are important, but it's also important to have actual opinions and not try to
find a middle ground all the time. It's okay to say, like the
Mavericks fucked up. That was I don't even know what the hell that was.
And it's okay to say that, It's okay to appreciate like the duality
of certain situations and it still feels like there's a lack of nuance from certain
people who to me come off as like performative or pious when looking at how
they cover the game or the lens through which they view the game. They
can also be incredibly gate keep. I also find I feel like myself is
probably been guilty of this many times, being condescending. And it's just like
when fans are asking it, you might get tired of hearing the same question
over and over again. I'll use the CBA as an example. It's really
not the fans' fault that some of this stuff goes above their head. And
I don't mean that as an insulting they can't understand it. It's just not
talked about in the clearest of terms. Like the CBA itself is convoluted.
The people who love it just say these things without all the time explaining them.
It can be the same time maybe with you and I when we're talking
about numbers or something else, and all that stuff just really started the way
on me probably like eighteen months ago, and I think over the past six
or eight months it's made it easier to consume the game of basketball for me
and more fun to participate in just all the aspects. And I'm not trying
to come off as like this might be a sermon at this point, but
especially around the trade season or if we're, you know, if really into
like the deep x's and ohs, when we're having the important conversations about Ben
Simmons and his mental health absence, I don't. It's not my place to
deliver a verdict on it. Do I think that the optics are great if
he immediately returns to Brooklyn nets after citing that he couldn't play for Philadelphia because
of his mental health. No, the optics aren't great. But we also
have put a players in these situations where yeah, we welcome Kevin Love and
Demard Rozen when they're talking about actual trauma because it's not related to basketball.
But what is like the first opinion going to be on a talking head show
if it's first take or I don't even know what? What? What?
What is skip Bayliss this show called I don't, I have no idea,
I don't. I don't watch it, but like they're gonna talk about player
X wasn't mentally strong enough, they didn't want it enough. There's too much
pressure on them. I don't know that. I don't. I don't.
It's not about whether you believe Ben Simmons or not, but like we've put
players in a position to where they could absolutely feel that way, to where
if he was afraid of facing the Sixers fan base, I wouldn't blame him
and or not wanting to deal with the criticism from this. It's tough.
I get, you know, I get like, still I think my skin
is thicker, but it's still pretty thin. So like when stuff happens,
when there's people in DMS yelling at me or mentions or something happens, like
you know, it impacts me. Players are facing this on a larger scale.
It's also fair to criticize Ben Simmons because he has not tried to expand
his offensive game in a meaningful fashion since he came in the league. There
are so many different layers to everything, and I just feel like we lose
sight of that nuance and it always has to be about one thing, and
too much is focused on what the league is, not, what the coverage
is not, what people aren't doing. Oh we're not celebrating this player enough.
Oh we're criticizing this player too much. And I miss what felt like,
maybe not camaraderie across NBA Twitter, but just like a lightness and a
levity, and I get that they're really more profound and heavier emotionally affecting things
that we need to talk about and discuss. And there are people that do
a great job of that. There are people that have opened my eyes to
that stuff. I think it's important. I'm not far from perfect in this
situation, like as anyone, like, I'm not trying to be blameless here
or like I said, preach, it's just around this time of year specifically,
because that's when it feels like the most people come out where it's they
look down on people who appreciate trades or the cap or free agency. I'm
still angry about what people said to Kayla Cooper on Twitter a while ago because
the patients weren't relevant enough to deal with xs and os like it's just the
absolution is how I'm going to close this And the way that the NBA is
sometimes covered it really just pisses me off and it disappoints me. And it's
not just Twitter eggs like, it's people who, whether they know what they're
doing or not, like, have created this weird environment to where you're not
allowed to appreciate the MBA at varying scales without there being some sort of trade
off or moral hazard or just sort of a wrongness in the way you consume
it. The only thing I really want to add is I do think it's
important to mention one more layer of the Simon situation, which is just like
there there is a legitimate possibility and he'll receive so much criticism if he does
immediately end up playing for the Brooklyn Nets, But it's a nuanced situation.
And how many times, you know, have people been subject to to toxic
work environments and as soon as they make that change in environment, you can
breathe again, and you know, for all we know, like that could
be exactly what happens here. And I just don't want to come across as
immediately like dismissing what could have been and what may very well have been legitimate
issues with his mental health that could be alleviated almost immediately upon an exit from
what was a toxic situation where he's received so much criticism from that fan base
for his performance, for his lack of development, et cetera, et cetera,
that we don't have insight into that. Yeah, and the final final
thing let's say is maybe this stuff for me personally is born from the fact
that there's got to be a chip from my shoulder. I feel like I'm
pretty self deprecated when it comes to this podcast single handedly easily the most underrated
NBA podcast out there, so you should rate, review, and subscribe.
But I also feel that way about my writing. And that'll be as close
as I come to Dan is the most underrated NBA writer out there. I'll
go ahead and say it. You know, if we're handing out superlatives,
it's that if you haven't read is stuff, just don't read it. You
learn something every time, and not just about basketball, but about like just
pure writing skills. The all I ask is just to go a day without
having something I write, like maybe being questioned like it wasn't perhaps like this
doesn't happen a lot. So I'll actually leave that and won't drop that here.
But I appreciate you saying that that's already alluded to it anyway. Yeah,
that's as closest I'll come to compliment myself, like this podcast is underrated,
the work I do is underrated. Maybe I don't consume the game and
the way that's like the most popular or has been defined as like acceptable,
and it's not me specifically. It's like, I think the way I consume
it is weirder, like the primary way that I watch that full well,
yeah, when I do, when I do happen to watch. Yeah,
Like I'm constantly thinking about things from a historical lens. You know. I
pride myself, even as a relatively younger writer slash editor at this point,
like on my historical knowledge of the game, and I often watched through that
filter. And I love the historical rankings, and I love thinking about how
players between eras and during the same eras stacked up against each other, and
like that's constantly going on in the back of my mind. So like that's
not a very popular way to watch and consume the game, but that's how
I enjoy it most I And that's also fine. There's I will say.
The other thing is like to downplay like the role of people who cover more
than one team or the league at large. Like, Okay, it's great
that person X knows more about picking a team at random. Here, let's
just say the Wizards that might be part of where my chip comes from as
well. I've mentioned that I think localized coverage has become more important and I
love it. I love listening to the team centric podcast. I genuinely love
seeing people succeed, especially when they've built their podcasts or or blogs recently.
But there is a role on people who cover the like you know when you
see trades would be a great example, when you see some of these fake
trades that are pitched out there and it's clear that the person is making those
trades through the lens of the singular team they follow slash cover it's important to
have all different types of coverages. This is like super whiny of like,
oh national NBA podcast, people feel under appreciated. I think this podcast,
aside from ours, spectacular, this was a blast as usual. We hope
everybody appreciated it. Please, if you've made it this far, remember to
rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast wherever you consume it, consume
it. I really need to get some sleep, Rate review and subscribe us
on iTunes as well, whether you use it or not, that helps out
a ton. Join our discord channel. It was like it was like a
proud parent seeing all of our I couldn't be in discord as much today because
I was so busy. But it's really cool to see a bunch of our
listeners, a few dozen of them, just interact with each other and talk
hoops. So join our Discord links in the podcast description. Follow us on
YouTube, YouTube dot com, Hardward Knox. We're at hardwar Knox on Twitter
at Hardward underscoreingoxs on Instagram all our personal and NBA slash Sports Math related accounts.
Those are listed in the podcast scription as well. I do believe I'd
like to throw it to Adam very quickly because we have something launching this weekend.
If I'm not mistaken, Yeah, we are. We are planning on
launching the Sports Math Network website on Sunday, just prior to the Super Bowl.
We already have stuff cooking up. We have all of the metrics you've
come to know and love for NBA Math, as well as a bunch of
stuff for MLB Math, QB Math, NHL Math, and PGA math,
as well as the unveiling of our twack metric, which I'm not even going
to explain yet. You're just gonna have to wonder and try to figure out
what the hell that could possibly be, and but it's it's pretty cool.
I don't mean to be this person, but I know what it is and
it's glorious. I had zero hand in it, which is a little bit
upsetting, but I at least knew about it before. Its fault for not
living in fair enough. I have no refusion to that. But I'll leave
you to shout out as we get out of here to the one the only
didn't get traded because he is indispensable to what they're eventually going to do this
season, which is probably losing the first round. Frank Mila Kina of the
Dallas Mavericks. Number one in my heart and yours