WEBVTT

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Wow. As we are concluding the
year twenty twenty three, we want to

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look back at some of the important
discoveries that occurred that made news that maybe

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we're under the currents of the orthodoxy, but still present questions about our past.

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That is what we are going to
tackle today with my group of panelists

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from around the United States. These
are people who have their hands in the

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discoveries, who are writing about this
material, who are providing us an understanding

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of where these new discoveries and fines
are being placed in Stacey's until we can

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get an understanding of just how important
they are. This week, we are

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looking at discoveries made around the world, and we're bringing it to you here

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on the program. All this and
more today on Earth Ancients or Saturday,

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December thirtieth, twenty twenty three.
This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host,

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Cliff Dunning. Here we are.
We're at the end of the year.

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The end of twenty twenty three seems
to have gone awfully quick. I

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felt that it was a good year. I don't know how you're feeling.

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Hopefully it was workable. Obviously you're
listening so here. You didn't leave the

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planet. A lot of people did
leave the planet and different parts of the

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world are having their strife and issues, but hopefully you're doing well. And

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this is our last program, The
Last Earth Ancients for twenty twenty three,

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and oh boy, I so much
to talk about, but we're going to

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condense it a little bit and have
a review. And I've invited some friends

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to join me to discuss three the
year in review. And these are discoveries

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that were made in different parts of
the planet and you might be surprised to

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hear a few of the highlights that
we'll be discussing today and kind of brings

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the year into focus and sets the
stage for twenty twenty four. Twenty twenty

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four is going to be here,
at least here in the United States.

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We have our presidential election and that
is a huge deal. So that's going

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to be everywhere and so that is
something to look forward to for some of

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us. Others of us would rather
avoid the whole political scene. There's a

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lot of issues revolving around red and
blue states, and that's what's it's kind

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of an issue is the fact that
we're not united at the moment, and

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we're actually divided here in the United
States. That is into red and blue

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camps, and I'm hoping we can
resolve that and kind of get back on,

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kind of get back together as a
unified country, because it's it's not

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good. So, But on the
program today, we are talking about a

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number of important discoveries. Some of
them are actually quite fun to talk about,

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simply because they highlight a lot of
the topic that we bring here each

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week on Earth Ancients and this is
ancient unknown civilizations, discoveries regarding those,

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and of course, you know,
where does the Orthodox fit in on this?

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Where are the archaeologists, the Egyptologists
and the others who are writing our

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history fall into place? And that's
always the question. I like to think

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that here on the program we are
on the cutting edge of new discoveries,

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either revealing those that have been uncovered
over the years, or new discoveries that

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are shedding light on where we've been, what we're all about, and what

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our ancestors were doing, perhaps before
our written history. I hope also that

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you have been enjoying destiny now.
Destiny, for those of you who listen

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on a regular basis, fits nicely
with Earth Age, just because we're talking

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about practices that in many cases are
not around anymore. Meditative practices, wellness

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practices with food, body works,
stretching movement of the body. And I

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think, and i'd like to think
I should say that this is a compliment

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to what we have on the show
Earth Ancients. And when I say compliment,

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that's kind of like, you know, okay, here we talk about

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a discovery of an ancient civilization,
and that's where we leave it on Earth

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Angels. Then we can dive into
what were their lifestyles and we'll have an

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author on Destiny who will describe a
food or a practice that is coming back

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into vogue. And when I say
that, it's not far fetched, I

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mean, look at yoga. Yoga
was introduced to the United States in the

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sixties, late sixties, and now
it's a phenomenon. I mean, when

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it first came out, people were
like, yoga stretching your body, what's

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that all about? Well, little
do we know that yoga is over five

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thousand years old, And I think
it's actually older. I think there's some

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Vedic texts that hint at body movements
that are Yogic in style, and this

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is one of these exercises that is
fascinating simply because we're beginning to understand is

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understand that if you stretch in a
certain way, not only does it open

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ligaments, musculature, and bones,
but it actually activates hormones and other beneficial

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flow into the body, mind and
possibly the spirit that keeps us connected to

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the earth, to the higher realms. And when I say higher realms,

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it's like, what does that mean? Well, that's the state of nirvana

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where you're connecting with your higher self, where you're connecting with your soul,

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You're connecting with these other lifetimes that
we talk about on Destiny. And I

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think the more and more we begin
to understand past lives, it's like,

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hey, forget religion, forget everything
we think we know about life, death

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and birth. These past lives are
intricate parts of who we are now.

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We don't know how we script.
We can guess that how we script each

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life, but until we have some
other kind of foundation behind how we are

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birth into each life, we can
only guess. We can only read from

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ancient texts that kind of give us
a hint. We don't have a way

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to tap into the soul at this
point to really fully understand just how that

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works. The life death process but
it's fascinating, fascinating to consider. So

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and that's the esoteric part part of
Earth Ancients that I appreciate and I hope

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you do too. So Earth Ancients
and Destiny in many ways are linked,

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and I think as you listen to
both, you'll kind of get a sense

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of that. So today's program includes
my guests today and that's author Matt Lacroix,

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Reverend Jim Willis, and our own
archaeologist Jen Dale. And our program

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today is twenty twenty three, the
Year in Review. So each year we

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do the best of the best we
have for the year in review. Twenty

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twenty three is coming to an end. I can't believe it. What happened

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to this year? It seems like
it's January. We had a couple of

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tours this year with our Ancients and
they were fantastic. But we're in December,

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We're almost at the end of the
year, and I'm like, what

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happened? What happened? I think
that's just what happens when you get older.

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Things just you're so busy that things
just move along. So what we're

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talking about today is a number of
events, discoveries, and levels of consciousness

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that have. I've made news in
twenty twenty three, and I have three

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friends with me today. I have
Jen Dale, who is an archaeologist.

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Jim's been on the show quite a
few times. She's quite a regular.

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Jen has a point of reference she's
gonna present to us. Jim Willis author.

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Jim has been one with us many
times, author of American Cults,

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hidden History, Ancient Gods, and
so on, and so for Jim seems

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to just he can't put the pen
down, and he's spinning out books after

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books after book, and that's fantastic
and it's always great to see Jim.

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And then we have a friend Matt
Lacroix. I haven't seen Matt probably in

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about seven or eight years, and
I thought, I gotta get Matt on

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the show. He's always rocking it. He's always got something unique to talk

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about, and it's gotta be all
I've good to see you too. Matt's

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the author of the Illusion of Us, the Stage in Time. I think

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he was talking about the Stage in
Time about five or seven years ago.

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We've got a new book coming out. We'll talk about that. And each

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of these guests today have something unique
to say, something to present to us

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that I find compelling. So hey, welcome everybody. Great to see you

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and thanks for joining me here on
Earth. Ancients. Hey y'all, Jen,

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so much to talk about. I
want to start with you. Jen.

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This item that you brought up is
in Zambias, yeah, Africa,

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and I can see why you thought
it was unique, simply because it is

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so old, and I want you
to talk a little bit about it.

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It was kind of an overview.
It's not just the fact that it is

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the remains that are half million years
old. It's more than that, isn't

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it. Oh my gosh, yes, because not only is it half a

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million years old, but it also
tells us that this early hominid was actually

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building and had some pretty complex thinking
in regards to, you know, solving

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problems that we don't often attribute to
early humans. So, for instance,

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this was found along the river bank
in Zambia. And essentially what it is

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is they're interlocking logs and they've been
deliberately crafted to allow them to fit together,

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kind of think like that tongue and
groove kind of building technique. And

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according to this new study that's just
been put out, they were made by

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stone tools. They used stone tools
which again speaks to greater cognitive complexity.

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It's so funny because you know,
I'm a huge I love Neanderthal. I'm

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not gonna lie. I love Neanderthal. I think they're hugely undervalued, and

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we often think of them as being
kind of the adult of the ancient world,

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when in reality, I think we've
found especially over the last couple of

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years, and I'm not insinuating that
Neanderthal made this, but I'm just saying

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that in that we need to perhaps
look at these early hominids under a new

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white and maybe delve into, you
know, these tools that they create.

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We often think, oh, they
were hunters, or they were doing this,

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you know, they're almost always related
to that type of activity, hunting

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activity. We rarely think of them
building things, But in reality, why

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wouldn't they be building things, because
they need to build structures. And in

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this instance, they built this nice
little wood plank connecting so that people didn't

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have to walk in a wet place. That's essentially what this was. This

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is like this little probably like through
a wetland right where they have exactly exactly

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exactly, So think of it like
that they're solving a problem because they don't

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want to fall down or get stuck
in the mud or do something like that,

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which again speaks to that higher cognitive
ability. Okay, and so then

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the you know, the big elephant
in the room. It's half a million

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years old, and we know that
this is true. There's no turning back.

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And like Jim said on the front
end of this call, things just

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keep getting older. And this is
one of those things. Yeah, half

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of it's like four hundred and seventy
four thousand. I mean, it's a

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pretty specific date they came up with. Is just mind blowing. And I

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think the article goes on to say
that the second oldest is something like half

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that two hundred thousand. So this
is a really a real discovery, isn't

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it. And Yeah, and you
know what gets me is not only the

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building of Neanderthal, but was it
in uh it was in the streets,

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wasn't it straights of Gibraltar where they
found the flute, the Neanderthal flute?

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And here you go, here you
go. You've got to culture that was

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supposed to be the the big as
Jed said, the adults, and here

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they are building these structures and taking
part in the arts and doing music and

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everything else. Boy, that that
sounds pretty modern to me. It does,

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it does, And I think when
you think in terms of these older

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humans, you know, there's so
much that gets lost when things are this

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sold, so much that gets lost. And luckily around these water areas,

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yeah, there's there's great preservation for
a lot of these items. And one

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of the cool things is is that
this is unfortunate for a climate change.

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But as we head into more climate
change, things start drawing up, like

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lake beds, rivers. We're discovering
more of these items that have kind of

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been in that that uh that you
know, the the chamber of You know

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that the earth is perfectly created to
preserve these wooden artifacts. So I'm not

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happy that the climate is changing,
but I'm kind of excited that we get

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to find these things and maybe have
a greater range of what we have available

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to us to study. And what
about I'm so glad to have an archaeologist

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here to ask us to what about
the Neanderthal genes that show up in South

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America the ancient I mean, did
they actually were they? Do you suppose

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able to travel across oceans and that
kind of thing. I mean, that's

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the big question, isn't it?
And I am a huge proponent of early

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maritime technology with early hominids. I
think that that's highly probable. I mean,

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I mean, we have the evidence
of that in Greece where we see

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some of the earliest hominids. Well
how they get there? I think that

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there's this again, this idea that
you know, these earlier versions of us,

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even pre Homo sapien, we're just
not as sophisticated as we are.

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But in reality, I think perhaps
they were more. I mean, this

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is no shocker to anybody on this
panel, but they were likely way more

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in tune with their natural environment.
And we're problem solving in ways that we

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haven't even like begun to wrap our
brains around. Like I think that they

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just recently found a boat that was
hands stitched in the Baltic or the Black

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Sea, I'm not recalling which,
and that technology is lost to us.

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I mean, we know that there
are still some native folks that do hand

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stitching. There the coracle, these
little round boats that you know, some

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people use in different parts of the
world, But to find it on you

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know, the bed of the ocean, and to think back like we know

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that they sowed we've we've found Denisovan
needles, We've found other needles in other

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places in these ancient you know,
caves, and the luck of having the

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preservation of that. But you know, there's also this idea that these early

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people were just walking around naked and
freezing and didn't really have much going on.

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When you think that they could sew
a boat, you now realize they

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could soak their clothing. They could. They were much more adaptable than we've

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given them credit for. So instead
of talking about this ancient adult, we

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are now talking about a very sophisticated
people, especially for their time, but

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even for our time. I mean, doing things that you and I probably

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couldn't do. I couldn't sew a
boat, I couldn't make a flute out

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of a reed. I couldn't build
a wharf like that that would last half

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a million years. That's unbelievable to
me. I like they were at least

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pushing that narrative back so far now
that we have to consider so many other

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possibilities in conjunction to what Jen is
talking about, with not just how far

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back our story from this most primitive
origins goes, but also all the other

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things that are in between, and
I think, actually I'm very happy that

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Jen is on this call because I
just I sent Cliff some of those pictures

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that we're going to talk about when
we come up here. But I would

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love an archaeologist to look at some
of these and we can have a perspective

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to talk about timelines and origins and
where things might fit. So thank you

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Jen for opening up decision the ticket
to area code for two six ticket to

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Turkey. Cliff, Matt just gave
you the beautiful lead into his place on

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Lake I didn't necessarily. We'll come
up in a second with Matt. Jen.

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I'm curious the hominin at that time
is not Homo sapien, right,

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I mean, typically they're not.
They're saying Homo sapien. Sapien comes a

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few one hundred thousand years ago.
But you know what, I think they're

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pushing it, aren't they. I
mean, because if this is you know,

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put together with intelligence, there's consciousness
here. This is not somebody dragging

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their their hands on the door.
This is somebody who's talk a little bit

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about what they suspect could be the
hominin type. Because if it's almost sapien,

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that's a big plus. That would
be about two hundred thousand years earlier

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than they had suspected, which is
pretty significant. You know, they don't

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link anyone early hominid to this particular
site, but if we're you know,

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they they reference that Neanderthal's you know, the timeline of Neanderthal activity, but

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they're also leaving out like Denisovans.
We haven't found Denisovans in you know,

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South Africa, so we can't really
say that, you know, they were

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in play, but you have you
know, some of the older ones that

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have been complet completely negated to ever
have any of this capacity to build complexity.

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So you know, I'm hesitant to
say who I think this might be,

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and especially because I know my second
my second you know suggestion on what

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to talk about is Home on the
Leading, which you know they did never

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really identify as a hominid, and
now they're like, what, wait a

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minute, this guy did some pretty
cool stuff. So do you want me

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to talk about Home on the Leading
now, which is my second little bit

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before you jump into that hominin?
Yeah, how did they find burnt wood?

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Was it like exposed with someone digging
in the area. What's what's the

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story for people that don't know,
I think that's a cool story. Yeah,

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yeah, it is a cool story. So this is an ongoing site.

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This is a site that they had
excavated before I looked into And so

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how I understand it is they were
excavating at this site and this is like

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the right on the border of Tanzania. And you know, Tanzania is a

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hotbed for early humans, so that's
like, you know, one of the

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prime spots. So we see a
lot of different types of hominids come out.

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That's why I'm very hesitant to say, because you've got like you've got

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like tons of different folks coming out
of there. It's like almost an epicenter.

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So the structure was excavated. There
was a structure excavated up from Colombo

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Falls near Zambia's border with Tanzania,
and they happened across this because also this

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particular area is like an epic drought
as well, So there are a lot

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of different things at play. But
this is a wonderful, happy coincidence that

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they found it. They weren't looking
for it. I mean, they were

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more likely to find like you know, some old eye tools or you know,

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some early human bones or something to
that effect before they were willing to

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and even thought that they would find
some perishable items. But Jen, why

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is that so important to maybe people
don't understand carbon dating and why you can

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actually have something organic like that be
more valuable than even potentially a tool.

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Oh my gosh, yes, I
mean, you know carbon dating problems aside

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still having something, and this thing
looks like it's completely carbonized. I mean

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I was looking at it. It's
like burnt down, you know, there's

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not a lot of true. Yeah, it's converted right absolutely, and you

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can see it slightly tilted on its
side, but you can actually see the

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segmentation where they put it together,
where it's actually fitting together. So what

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that means is how it's in such
amazing preservation. At some point there was

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a fire because it's completely carbonized.
Something something either the pressure of all of

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the soil and all of because there's
a massive soil on top of this which

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can compress and sometimes carbonize things,
or there was a fire which put this

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in just absolute perfect preservation in micro
or a non microbial environment, which happens

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in water like you've got Charnel ponds
and stuff like that that can actually really

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highly preserve perishable items. So this
was such a wonderful, happy mistake.

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And the fact that they had an
archaeologist, you know, excavating nearby and

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they somehow find this on you know, in that process. Right, if

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you were to say what this does
to our understanding of human evolution, would

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you say it's a big step forward
because now we think that conscious beings were

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around a lot earlier. We don't
as obviously, we can't say it's Homo

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sapey and safety and we don't have
any bones, right, No, okay,

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so when when then they find something
that's half a million years old that's

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intelligently designed. I mean, there's
these ape like humans, hominins what they

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call them. But you know,
does that give us a possibility for Homo

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sapiens or is it? Or is
it like the dnnis nonis no Dennis Novin's

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where we only have a bone here
or there and that's it. That's all

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we have, and we're guessing that
these are some form of human being.

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You know, I'm curious what,
Yes, I'm but I'm also curious what

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the other guests have to say about
this too. In my personal opinion,

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I feel like I don't want to
attribute it to Homo sapiens. I want

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to think that there is an older
hominid that was more complex than we have

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given them credit for. That's my
personal opinion. I agreed, that's that's

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the question I wanted to ask.
I was. I was almost afraid to

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ask it of a real archaeologist,
because I mean, we got we got

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Denisovan's, you know, from one
little pinky fingerbone, and uh, all

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of a sudden, here's a whole
new species. And I was going to

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ask you, do you suppose then? And you just answered the question.

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I think, do you suppose then
that there's a possibility of these really really

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ancient species that were intelligent, that
built with wood, that were involved in

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the arts, that were involved possibly
oceanic travel, uh, you know,

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or at least at least along the
coasts and everything else, a whole species

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back there that we didn't know anything
about. Uh, it's going to come

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down to cranial size, right Jen, Yeah, it's gonn it's gonna it's

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gonna take bones somewhere along the line, isn't it. Well? Bones and

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even you know, posture. How
were they walking? Were they using their

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thumbs the way we use our thumbs. Were they still still arboreal? I

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mean, yes to everything that you're
both saying. I think that those are

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the big questions. I am particular. I think that, you know,

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we're still putting together this massive puzzle
of what we believed to be true of

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our ancestral evolution with the caveat of
you know, we understand evolution very differently

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now, So what does that mean
to these earlier people in their accomplishments.

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I'm just not willing to always write
it off as homo sapien because I don't

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think we were always the smartest kids
on the block. Perhaps we were the

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most adaptable when bad, catastrophic things
happen, and that's what pushed us to

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where we are now. I like
that. I love the idea of our

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boreal arboreal species that built this thing
because they didn't want to get their feet

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wet when they came down on the
ground. That's that's pretty fantastic. Can

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you think of at all? Right, Jen, We're gonna have to follow

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up on this one because it has
a lot of possibilities, and I wonder

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if they keep digging what they're gonna
find. Maybe some tools would be really

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cool. Like, how old is
the human story? Truly? Where do

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we get that defining moment where we
even have characteristics that are semi holmost sapey

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and sapient even in its most primitive
format. Where does that begin? And

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I think that, like Jen talking
about this discovery in Africa, that helps

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us at least understand that timeline in
a much more in a much clearer way,

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so we can start placing things and
say, well, this is the

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furthest we can go right, well, now let's fill everything in between,

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and that's I guess that's the you
gotta start somewhere, right, Yeah,

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Yeah, that's a good on Jen. All right, let's move up the

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earth and talk with Matt about Lake
van in Turkey and this wonderful discovery that

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you've made. I was looking at
the video that you post on your website.

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It's kind of a mind blower.
Man. Go ahead, thanks,

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Jen. Are you familiar with Lake
Vaughan in eastern Turkey near the Armenium border

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at all? You are? Are
you familiar with the Huarchian civilization at all?

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I am? And there's a there's
a beautiful settlement slash temple at the

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bottom of Lake Vaughan. I was
reading about when I heard we were going

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to be on this together. Well, we can go into that now.

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I would like, Cliff, if
we could take this unique opportunity having Jen

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on this to be able to have
her comments, and I'm hoping Jen that

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you can be very objective with me
and scientific and not based on maybe predetermined

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conclusions, because we have some great
photos that we can we can show as

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we discussed this. I emailed you, Cliff just now some while we're in

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this, and maybe you could pull
those up while I'm talking, because there's

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a couple in particular that I want
gen to see because I am very cure

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00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.599
used to see her reactions to them
as I talk about this having a credible

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archaeologists on site. So this is
a long story, and I don't know

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necessarily how long I have, so
I want to try to condense it into

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something that's easy to understand, that
hits the kind of key aspects of this

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and a general appreciate it, because
even though I'm not an accredited archaeologist,

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I like to play one, at
least in real life. This all started

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with my obsession over the Sumerians,
Acadians and Babylonians and even I guess the

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Assyrians, that entire region of Mesopotamia
was my obsession specifically though with the earlier

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Sumerian narratives of the original cities that
are discussed, and how there's a lot

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of myths and legends related to whether
or not some of those ages are true,

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how far back some of them go, and if some of those stories

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are truly truly far older than we're
told and fits into a much older,

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much larger time frame and timeline than
than we've been taught in school. Now,

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no fault to Jen is she is
part of an organization that does amazing

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work, but that organization of archaeology
needs to be more willing to bend to

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evidence in terms of being open minded
rather than being skeptical, because we're in

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an age now of new discoveries and
new information. And I am not putting

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gen down in any way because she's
not part of any of these things,

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and neither neither of the other other
archaeologists as well that are part of the

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projects. But there is a consensus
here with these areas of eastern Turkey near

356
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Armenia that I believe is incorrect and
that we are potentially with everything we're about

357
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to discuss could be a major factor
with changing our timeline and understanding of history

358
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in the future. And that began
with my obsession of the Sumerians. As

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I said now in the Ancient Tablets, some of the first tablets ever written

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that came out of summer from the
Asher Bount Paul Library. We have of

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the Sumerian king list, we have
the euroclist of kings and stages. We

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have even the Broocious king lists from
Babylon and so on, and there's others

363
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as well, Legend of Atana,
and we get into things like Aerdu Genesis

364
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and others. But they all discuss
how there's this last city created that was

365
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part of this event that came through
that destroyed the old world and then everything

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was gone and then another rebuilding had
to occur. But archaeologists, mainstream archologists,

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were under that impression that it was
a localized event that was based on

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flooding of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers
in the springtime and not based on an

369
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actual catastrophic event. However, that
is greatly changing as we're seeing new evidence

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emerge, and that began in when
Sharupak the Last City talked about in the

371
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tablets was considered a myth. Was
found in nineteen thirty one when the University

372
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of Philadelphia was out and they were
doing these amazing excavations of what the city

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today is called Farah in Iraq,
and when they were excavating down below,

374
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they had to go down through these
different layers to try to understand the history

375
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of that area, and what they
found was much more complex than they ever

376
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imagined. They found three distinctive layers
of civilizations that have been in that region,

377
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but over an enormous time period.
But it doesn't make any sense conventionally

378
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because as they're digging down from the
top layer to the very bottom consensus stratum

379
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number three, which is at thirty
five to thirty seven feet, they found

380
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that the top the top seventeen feet, they found evidence of two civilizations that

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had been in that area, two
civilizations, and that those civilizations they found

382
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:51.039
no evidence of the name Shirupak.
But they found primitive pottery, primitive tools,

383
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.920
primitive work, wasn't anything kind of
it wasn't anything really sophisticated, and

384
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they almost gave up because they didn't
find the excav they didn't find shar but

385
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they had a very strong evidence based
understanding that it was there, and so

386
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:09.039
it was amazing reading these archaeologists from
the papers of it, because after they

387
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went down below seventeen they went down
below that layer of the two civilizations,

388
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they had a void of just mud
and sediment with no signs of human settlement

389
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:25.480
for approximately twenty to twenty five feet
and when they hit that right below that

390
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:29.679
layer, they're going to give up. And then they hit this layer at

391
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:35.199
thirty to thirty three feet down,
they hit another layer that was completely different

392
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:38.840
than anything above it. It was
highly advanced, highly sophisticated. Culturally.

393
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:44.800
They found pottery that was very sophisticated. They found ancient they found tablets with

394
00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:49.679
caneiform writing, and that's where they
found the name Shirupak. On those tablets

395
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:54.000
they found Shirupak. They found the
original Sumerian city of Sharrupak. That was

396
00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:58.440
part of an age that if you
read something like the Epic of Gilgamesh,

397
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:02.719
you will find in that that he
even tells. He tells Gilgamesh in that

398
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.079
story that Shrewpak is far more ancient
than you could ever imagine. It's not

399
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:12.760
part of the same time period that
we're from, and so it's interesting reading

400
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.880
the archaeologists about these discoveries and how
they were speculating. They like, isn't

401
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:21.719
that interesting that there's this giant layer
of mud and debris that teams that tends

402
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:25.559
to coincide with this biblical flood narrative, and then here we find this more

403
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.119
advanced civilization in the bottom instead of
the top. Now, Jen, that

404
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:36.960
doesn't make a lot of sense conventionally, does it me? No, not

405
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:43.239
at all. It's really interesting you
say that because in my experience, I

406
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:49.519
work mostly in Jordan's so I have
experience in that general vicinity. Yeah,

407
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.679
I am not as familiar with Shah
Rupek as I am, like say,

408
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:58.599
with or or you know, maybe
Nineveh or some of the other cities that

409
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:05.639
have been discussed. But I do
think that you know, those early excavators,

410
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:14.599
those early archaeologists and antiquarians had they
weren't as maybe in the or how

411
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:19.000
do I say this, in the
way, they weren't as rigid, and

412
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.159
they weren't as you know, enamored
with the Ivory Tower as it exists today.

413
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.960
And I'm probably gonna be slaps for
even saying, but I'm saying it.

414
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:35.159
Yeah, But what I will say
is we have found a lot of

415
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.000
that. You know we have,
Well, we've reached the Neolithic layer,

416
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:43.960
so let's stop excavating there. I
would be dishonest if I didn't say that

417
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:47.480
that happened, because it does.
When you're excavating, When you find a

418
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:52.280
lens of twenty five feet that you
no longer find cultural debrison, you have

419
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:58.119
a tendency to stop excavating. The
Actually, a lot of people left the

420
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:02.400
party, and only some of them
stayed behind Jen. That's not the point.

421
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:06.119
That's the critical point here, though, I need you to comment on

422
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:09.199
is conventionally in school. If you
were to go in school and learn about

423
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:15.559
our history, the six thousand year
narrative of the Sumerians emerging as a civilization,

424
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.679
through the Egyptians and right through the
whole history, right, how does

425
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:23.400
it make sense though, in that
narrative of being less developed and becoming more

426
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:28.119
developed over time, how does it
make sense to have a thirty five foot

427
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.119
layer and have primitive settlements at the
top and then have advanced settlement at the

428
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:37.760
very bottom. It's backwards, isn't
it. Yeah. I've said this to

429
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.480
Cliff numerous times. You won't find
any disagreement from me. I mean,

430
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.480
I think on the different segments that
we've done over the years, I have

431
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:50.920
consistently said Sumerians don't just show up
and be a fully cooked culture. That

432
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:55.000
just doesn't happen. And they don't
just show up and you know, have

433
00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:02.239
cuniform writing and you know, a
system of counting the days, a calendar

434
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:07.280
like everything. You know they did, I mean, they were viewing the

435
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:14.960
stars, they were doing it all. They had an intense system of not

436
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:19.760
of reciprocity, but of all truism
in the sense where everyone ate and you

437
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:23.719
know, everyone farmed, and it
was just complex culture, complex laws,

438
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:28.679
complex writing. They even had the
first currency, the shekel, which was

439
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:32.440
based on the amount of a bushel
of wheat. They had all their systems

440
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:37.480
in place that seemed to come out
of nowhere. So Shrupak they speculated saying,

441
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:40.320
well, this kind of lines up
with the biblical narrative of a great

442
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.679
flood and disaster. But then they
went on to say that's purely speculation,

443
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:49.280
and they like backtracked on their statement. But the point is that jen that's

444
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.639
lining up with a narrative that doesn't
make sense, that's lining up in the

445
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:54.760
narrative that's saying that, look,
this area of shru Pack, this area

446
00:39:54.760 --> 00:40:00.159
of Mesopotamia in Iraq has had multiple
epics of civilization that come and gone there,

447
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:02.719
and they're not all at the same
level. You know, others,

448
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.159
these levels we're seeing above them that
have primitive pottery and primitive writing, they

449
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.800
probably found and knew about the remnants
of those ancient civilizations and they just try

450
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.960
to imitate it or do what they
could. But we need to stop lumping

451
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:21.519
all these groups together and imagine that
these timeframes of what's been there and what's

452
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:25.119
occurred is enormous. We got to
stop putting in the lens of our understanding

453
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:30.039
of just a few hundred years.
We have to go thousands to potentially ten

454
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:34.400
twenty thousand, and that's what we'll
get into it a second. Go ahead,

455
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.760
Yeah, Jim, I was going
to say, I'm either blessed or

456
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:42.159
cursed. I'm not sure which one
sometimes whether having a reverend in front of

457
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:45.400
my name, and when you have
a when you have a reverend in front

458
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:50.280
of your name and you go on
a podcast, especially a Cliff Dunning podcast,

459
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:59.159
and you talk about ancient civilizations,
I was just inundated with comments about

460
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:06.239
where is the Garden of Eden,
the innumil Leish, the Babylonian Flood,

461
00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:09.760
Epic Gilgamesh. And when I moved
out here, when I retired from ministering,

462
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:13.159
moved I hear of the woods about
what twelve years ago, I guess

463
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.079
now, go Beckley Teppe was brand
new. I mean people were just starting

464
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.400
I mean it just it had been
discovered earlier, but it was just starting

465
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.400
to filter out to the public consciousness. And I'm just amazed. In the

466
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:30.199
last decade everybody was saying, well, for instance, go Beckley Teppe can't

467
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:36.920
be can't be that old, because
I mean, it can't spring that that

468
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.800
full blown onto the scene. It
has to be stuff. And then along

469
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:45.559
came Kara on Teppy and people start
looking about and that whole complex now,

470
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:49.840
that whole thing, you know,
pushing our civilization way back and way back

471
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:53.760
and way back. And I can't
help but think forty miles downstream from me,

472
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:58.760
I live on the Savannah River,
and forty miles downstream for me is

473
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:05.679
the topper site. And I could
never I could never forget when when when

474
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:08.760
they dug down, for instance,
to the clothes level, and the temptation

475
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:14.039
was to stop, don't go any
further, because Heaven forbid, you might

476
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:17.239
waste money by right by digging in
nothing, but Heaven forbid, because even

477
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:21.679
worse, you might find something and
then you lose your funding, and then

478
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:25.760
you lose your tenure, and then
you lose And and the man who was,

479
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.840
you know, leading up the dig
at that time, he's retired now,

480
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:34.079
but he told me, he told
me he had to warn his students,

481
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.760
man, don't go any deeper,
because if you find anything, you

482
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.400
could be in serious trouble, you
know, if you start true about you

483
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.159
know, and and and that's exactly
what's I think going on there now.

484
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:49.960
When when you start to look at
the pushing back all of these things,

485
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.599
what Jen was talking about, and
pushing back to half a million years from

486
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:59.320
two hundred thousand and now, pushing
back the whole idea of the flood epics

487
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.239
and the genesis flood story, the
myth and all that kind of thing,

488
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:07.320
you push it back farther and farther. And it's amazing to me how far

489
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:14.800
we've come in the last ten years, and how many bona fide archaeologists like

490
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:20.880
Jen and many of her colleagues I'm
sure, are now open and ready to

491
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:27.840
go. Probably one of the reasons
is because we've knocked down one big wall.

492
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:30.639
And then it used to be that
these kinds of stories could never get

493
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:34.639
out. You had to go through
a peer review to be published, and

494
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.760
you had to go through you know, your colleagues and everything else. And

495
00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:40.920
now with people like Cliff putting this
right out there for all to see without

496
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:45.199
having to go through all of the
things, the common layman is now seeing

497
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:50.440
these stories and they may not understand, and they may be tending to exaggerate,

498
00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:52.679
but they're getting out there and people
are starting to look at it and

499
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:58.159
saying, Wow, there's something really
serious and it's all happened. Maybe I'm

500
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:00.960
showing my age now, but it's
all happening so fast. It seems like

501
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.559
in the last ten or twelve years, this thing is just exploded. I'm

502
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:08.480
tolerated, right, it's an exciting
I mean, you're questioning the history of

503
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:14.199
our planet, Gym. I'll never
forget. And this was your fault too,

504
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:19.480
because when I wrote my book Lost
Civilizations, this is probably what.

505
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.840
Oh, I don't know, Cliff, eight ten years ago, so I

506
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.039
don't know something like that. And
you were one of the first people to

507
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:29.119
have me on and talk about the
lost civilizations. And boy did I get

508
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.760
hammered when I was starting to talk. I remember that, I actually saw

509
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.239
that. I remember that show where
you know, where did where did those

510
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:42.239
lost civilizations come from? And and
of course, you know there's a couple

511
00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:45.239
of camps. One camp said,
you know, there's always the ancient aliens

512
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.840
thing, and then there's the other
one that says, what about those lost

513
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:53.079
civilizations that might have existed during the
Ice Age? That couldn't have happened.

514
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:58.840
We couldn't. We couldn't be talking
about sophisticated civilizations that are two hundred thousand

515
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.599
years old and now Jen saying they're
half a million years old. Wow,

516
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:09.280
it's all happened so fast, wonderful. We're going to take a short commercial

517
00:45:09.400 --> 00:45:16.360
break and allow our sponsors to identify
themselves, and we'll return quickly with my

518
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:25.440
panelists today discussing twenty twenty three,
the year in Review. We'll be right

519
00:45:25.480 --> 00:46:10.239
back. Today's panel is a group
of influencers who have found and highlight a

520
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:19.320
number of discoveries that are appropriate for
Earth ancients. We continue our discussion.

521
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:24.440
Hey, Matt, I one thing
I think you're gonna give a I don't

522
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:27.840
get to go past the RUPAC yet. I want to say, we're still

523
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.599
know go Beckley Teppe is twelve thousand
BC. That's a long eleven six yeah,

524
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:36.519
yeah, eleven six right? What
what what numbers are you gonna throw

525
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.440
at us right now? Because I'm
curious. Well, it's that's the whole

526
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.519
point is that is that go Beeckley
Teppe gives us a benchmark. Okay,

527
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:46.800
right, And if Gobeckley Teppe has
the same T shaped pillars that become a

528
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:52.559
primary artifact from a relic of the
civilization about to talk about, you can

529
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:54.599
say, well, it's older,
it's an origin point. And Jen is

530
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:58.320
going to be fascinated by this.
And Jen and I might have to actually

531
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:00.039
actually have a phone call later to
see if she wants to be part of

532
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:07.280
something pretty significant, because I find
Jen's ability to be objective about this with

533
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:09.960
her credentials very interesting for this project. So I'd love to know your opinion

534
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:15.880
Jen as we go further and talk
about this, so that everything I just

535
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:21.159
said about your RUPAK was simply just
establishing the framework that there was an older

536
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:24.280
Sumerian civilization that was ancient, ancient, ancient. That's not the same as

537
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:30.559
the primitive ones on top. And
in that ancient ancient Sumerian civilization you find

538
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:36.159
out about the last priest and king
in all these tablets that talks about as

539
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.239
Is naming untapischtim or Zius Soudra.
Now Zaias Sudra was his Sumerian name,

540
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:46.719
untapitched him was his Acadian or Assyrian
name. Now that figure is critically important

541
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:52.960
to history. I could not believe
how deep this rabbit hole went as I

542
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:57.239
went down this because my obsession over
studying what happened to that story and that

543
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.599
king and priest and that whole narrative
is what led me to Lake Vaughan.

544
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:05.639
And I never imagined that this would
happen. But remember in the tablets in

545
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.559
the Autra Hasis, in the epic
of Gilgamesh, you find out that there

546
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:15.599
was an event created to destroy humanity. And we're gonna call untapischtam Razaiaes Sudra

547
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:19.119
Noah, just so it's easy for
everybody in the audience to understand, because

548
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:22.599
he became the biblical figure of Noah. But it's much more ancient and instead

549
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.880
of that Russell Crowe depictionary, he's
got like a like a lion skinned,

550
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:30.880
brown coat, and he's like primitive, no Untapishtim was a high priest and

551
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.800
a king. He was sort of
like Ashrabona Paul. Actually he was very

552
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:40.239
similar. So he was a very
high profile, very intelligent, ancient king

553
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:45.280
priest who haspos supposedly had a blood
line that was connected back to an ancient

554
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:50.719
place and he was warned about a
catastrophe. Okay, that's what the stories

555
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:54.079
describe about. But the stories end
and we never find out what happened because

556
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:58.519
so many of these tablets fracture off. They land in the mount area of

557
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.840
Mount Ararat in this craft to survive
this disaster, and I got to move

558
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:06.400
forward because there's a lot of stif
to talk about. But that Christian version,

559
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.360
some might laugh at that in the
archaeological world because their narratives are wrong,

560
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:12.800
and it's not of course, not
two of every animal. But there's

561
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.840
a core to that that goes back
to the Sumerian and the Syrian and Akkadian

562
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:22.239
versions. That is a different story
though it's about protecting a bloodline. It's

563
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.360
about protecting something. They call it
the seed of life. They call it

564
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:30.039
preserving the seed of life, and
they describes how they survive and they land

565
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:35.199
in the Mount Ararat region and then
poof, it becomes a mystery and you're

566
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:37.199
like, what happened? Where'd they
go? Right? And the Christian narratives

567
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.119
talks about how they went off to
different parts of the world and created all

568
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:44.480
these things, But is there any
archaeological proof that any of that's true?

569
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:52.440
You know, there wasn't until now, and that evidence has changed my entire

570
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:55.039
life to the point now where I
started my own company and we're doing it.

571
00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:00.519
We're about to leave for filming a
massive film that it's going to be

572
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:04.239
exceeding half a million dollars that perhaps
Jen might want to be a part of,

573
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.679
to go to Lake Vaughn and Turkey, to go to Ankora, and

574
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:10.639
then to link it with Bolivia and
Peru about an origin point of a lost

575
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.119
civilization. And now let me get
back to what that is. In twenty

576
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:22.719
seventeen, they discovered underwater ruins Undrea
like Vaughan of megalithic temple walls, high

577
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:28.880
precision, under more than one hundred
feet of water underwater there, and they

578
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.480
were they were in press conferences and
they were talking about They're like, that's

579
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:36.199
kind of difficult to explain considering how
far down that is in the lake,

580
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:39.000
and if you were to look at
geologic records on how low the lake would

581
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:44.280
have had to be to create that
civilization, it gets into some dangerous territory.

582
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.960
The number they came up with when
the lowest maximum point for glaciation for

583
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:52.000
that lake in terms of its water
level being the lowest was fifteen thousand years

584
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:58.199
ago fifteen, pushing it right then
back earlier than Quebecy Tepe, falling in

585
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:00.760
to that pre younger, driest narrative. But I think it's not even that

586
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.719
old. I think it's older now. And this is where the evidence I'm

587
00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:08.480
gonna we're gonna go with this is
that that discovery got my attention. But

588
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:13.320
it was only because I had seen
the excavations that were being done in another

589
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:17.000
site in the north part of Lake
vaugh called Sernaki Teppe, and I saw

590
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:22.679
the same polygonal block design that you
see in South America there that seems to

591
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:25.639
come out of nowhere. When you
jen knows that if you have a culturally

592
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:30.639
advanced civilizations that builds something. If
you see evidence them around in a wide

593
00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:32.960
area they lived there, it's not
like you have this one spot and there's

594
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:37.519
nothing ever anywhere around it that exists. You have to have some kind of

595
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:43.000
evidence for a civilization that could have
reached that kind of advanced stone masonry capabilities

596
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:45.480
to build that, and that's what
you have here, is that the emergence

597
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:52.119
of a mysterious lost civilization, I
believe, and it started with this underwater

598
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:57.000
ruins off of Adel Savez under Lake
Vaughan, and then it blossomed from Zernaki

599
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:02.559
Teppe to Kef Klesei Kef Temple,
to Kavistepi to the very core of it

600
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:08.159
all Ionis. I don't know if
Jen knows about Ionis, but Ionis Temple

601
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:14.920
is in my opinion, I've looked
at every megalithic temple, every high precision

602
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:17.760
thing I can have seen in Egypt, Peru, Bolivia, Ballbeck Levin,

603
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:22.559
through parts of Greece, through parts
of Petro, Jordan, Saudi Arabia,

604
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:29.039
could go on India. Ionis is
some of the most beautiful, incredible stonemasonry

605
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:32.400
sophisticated work in the world. But
not only that, but I believe it

606
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:37.079
contains the very first cross, the
very first images of the Chalice, the

607
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:42.159
first the first images of the Tree
of Life, and the knowledge of the

608
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:46.480
tryptic doorways that ancient civilizations around the
world were lowering on how to reach higher

609
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:52.599
states of consciousness and divinity. I
believe Lake Vaughan, in the civilization I'm

610
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:57.599
calling the error at civilization, may
be the missing link of when something happened

611
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:01.159
that led to all these civilizations and
is building all these incredible things and then

612
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:07.000
disappearing from catastrophes and then other cultures
not understanding what they did and trying to

613
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:10.079
imitate it, and then building right
on top of them, And then we're

614
00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:15.480
confusing those younger civilizations with being the
ones who built the older ones. Yeah,

615
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:21.239
and that's where these discoveries at Lake
Vaughan and Cliff. Can you pull

616
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:23.159
up any of those images I sent
you so that I don't you didn't I

617
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:28.559
don't find them. I'm looking at
attached Okay, can here? Can I

618
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.719
pull them up? Then? Yeah? Go ahead, Hold on a second,

619
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.039
let me get let me get yeah, go ahead, Jen, I

620
00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:37.000
want to get you chime in,
please, so you bring up some interesting

621
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:43.920
points. And just even if you
think of Lake Vaughan is the largest lake

622
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:49.199
in Turkey, it's also an end
eric lake, which means it's a closed

623
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:54.639
basin lake, which also means that
it is a saltwater lake. It it

624
00:53:55.159 --> 00:54:00.639
you know, it condensates are why
why block us the word? It loses

625
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:05.639
a salt so it's not as salty, but it's still a salty lake.

626
00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:10.880
So you have Lake Titi Kaka,
which is very similar when you think a

627
00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:15.920
lake in the middle of nowhere over
a thousand feet deep too, each of

628
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:20.840
them exactly exactly. So there are
a lot of really interesting correlations that you

629
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:23.400
bring up. As I hear you
talk about this, so it gets better

630
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:28.559
again, it gets better. Yeah, Well, I'm thinking about the Ecuadorian

631
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:32.039
images that come out that also are
a replication. You know, they've got

632
00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:37.679
the handbag and the bracelet. Yeah, father Crespy, Father Crespy's artifacts yep.

633
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:42.320
Okay. So and this is what
I didn't really get to sort of

634
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:45.920
compile this so we can understand it
is that the archaeologists that are making these

635
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:51.159
excavations believe that this is part of
the Urartian civilization that was around a rough

636
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:55.320
around four thousand years ago or so
in this region. But the stonemason you

637
00:54:55.400 --> 00:55:00.039
work, and the ruins and the
and the archaeological sites that you're gonna see

638
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:04.719
they don't match it all. They
don't match in even the slightest degree,

639
00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:08.599
because your teens were building with brick
and mortar, and they were actually a

640
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:13.440
semi war kind of a conquering civilization, and a lot of their iconography was

641
00:55:13.480 --> 00:55:16.679
based on more of like a conquering
and so archaeologists then took that mindset and

642
00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:22.599
try to impose it onto these And
it's almost embarrassing, Jen, to show

643
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.000
what is clearly a seed from the
tree of life and then they think it's

644
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:30.239
a lance or spear from war is
very It's sad and unfortunate, but it

645
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:35.639
gives an opportunity for people like me
and others that are passionate to want to

646
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.480
be part of to to change history. Can Cliff, can I share an

647
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.880
image here? You should be able
to share? Okay, great, Yeah,

648
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:45.480
let me, Jen, I want
to pull this up and show you

649
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:50.400
because I think that here I just
I just emailed it over to the group.

650
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:54.199
I think that it will really help
with like if you get an if

651
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:58.679
you're going a chance to get your
eyes on it, then it almost like

652
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:02.239
gives the ability for people to get
that perspective. Right. Let's see,

653
00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:09.800
so that Matt while you're while you're
doing this, ahead, while you're doing

654
00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:15.280
this. I have to I just
have to say that despite all of the

655
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:17.719
the archaeology and everything else, it's
been a delight to hear about this,

656
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:23.159
not just because of the history,
but to hear those wonderful Sumerian and Babylonian

657
00:56:23.239 --> 00:56:28.639
names roll so off your tongue.
They're beautiful. I couldn't pronounce them that.

658
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:30.480
Well. Well, I'm still learning. I'm sure. I'm sure Jen's

659
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:36.119
holding her tongue because I've made a
few mistakes along the way. I'm getting

660
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:39.639
better, but I was horrible if
those exotic names, It's like, it's

661
00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:45.239
like music, Matt, that just
beautiful. I mean, how many how

662
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:50.239
many syllables do we I want to
get I want to get my guitar out

663
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:52.639
and start and start playing music and
background. Let let you guys just say

664
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:57.519
these names. That's beautiful. I
will say this though. The images that

665
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:01.559
Matt showed of these figures is nothing
amazing. Number one, number two,

666
00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:07.079
I can see whether it would be
a confusion because they almost look Middle Aged

667
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:12.360
Medieval. Well, that's because the
symbol became a core symbol in mediately medieval

668
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.320
times, and that's what we'll get
into. Give me one more second,

669
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:17.199
guys, I'm just gonna pull can
I can I read something? Well?

670
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:21.280
Will Matt's looking that up. This
is going to seem as though it's not

671
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:25.599
related, but I assure you it
is. I I don't want to turn

672
00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:30.719
people off by saying the word Atlantis. You're not turning that off. I'm

673
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:35.679
I'm not gonna you know, I
mean, people can decide. Whether people

674
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:39.119
can decide whether Atlantis is an historical
reality or a myth. That's not important,

675
00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:44.079
but at this point, I mean, but what really gets me is

676
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:46.679
when when Matt was talking about these
cultures, and when Jen was talking about

677
00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:54.559
these cultures that were sophisticated and uh, looking beyond the material life, looking

678
00:57:54.960 --> 00:58:05.239
for something deeper, something bigger.
I can't help but think of Plato's Timaeus

679
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:12.159
when he was talking about the Atlantis
myth and looking at the not the historicity

680
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:16.039
of it, but looking at the
morality or the consciousness that was going on,

681
00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:21.559
and he said, you know,
of that flood that Matt was talking

682
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:23.800
about. It could be that he
was referring to this particular flood, but

683
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:30.920
for many generations, Plato said,
they the people there, the Atlanteans,

684
00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:37.079
obeyed the laws and loved the divine
to which they were akin, and they

685
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:43.320
reckoned that I'm sounding like a minister
here. Qualities of character were far more

686
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:49.880
important than their present prosperity. So
they bore the burden of their wealth and

687
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:57.719
possessions lightly and did not let their
high standard of living intoxicate them or make

688
00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:05.599
them lose their self control. But
when the divine element in them became weakened

689
00:59:06.440 --> 00:59:13.000
and their human traits became predominant,
they ceased to be able to carry their

690
00:59:13.079 --> 00:59:19.679
prosperity with moderation. And I can't
help but think of Matthew's I love that.

691
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:24.960
Thank you for this, the spearhead
that is replacing the beautiful pottery.

692
00:59:25.639 --> 00:59:30.880
It seems to be exactly what Plato
was talking about, you know, exactly

693
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.480
well, And I'm if I'm sorry
the image I had the images did not

694
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.199
send. They blocked them, so
I'm just opening them right, okay,

695
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:38.800
So so don't worry. We can. We can put them up on our

696
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:43.719
Facebook page. We'll have people look
at them. I'm looking at them too,

697
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.760
just so you know, matt I
see them right now, so I'm

698
00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:50.840
I'm looking at what you're looking at. So we need to kind of conclude

699
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:52.440
Matt, So okay, yeah,
let me let me move forward here,

700
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:57.280
Okay, Yeah, and I just
I just wanted Gin to, yeah,

701
00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:00.440
just to comment on what we're talking
about. So basically what we're what we're

702
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:06.880
doing is we're looking at these these
discoveries around these different sites, uh for

703
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:13.519
different sites around Lake Vaughan that contain
incredible imagery from Summer with the original like

704
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:19.119
the same winged gods like we see
in Summer. And I was gonna be

705
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:21.599
able to I guess I can't show
that with Jen right now, but we'll

706
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.239
get Jen's comments on that. But
basically, let me pull this up.

707
01:00:27.400 --> 01:00:30.400
So the iconography that comes from these
sites is bizarre. It's very Sumerian.

708
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:34.679
It's the same types of imagery we
see come out of that region from the

709
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.519
Ashrabona, Paul Livery and others that
was gathered in that in that time period.

710
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:42.800
And it shows the same wing depictions
of ascension and all these things.

711
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:46.280
But what's fascinating is that and you
brought up that that the iconography from Ionest

712
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:52.239
looks medieval almost. The cross that's
at Ionis, I believe was the first

713
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.800
iteration of the cross ever on Earth, and it was. It was That's

714
01:00:55.840 --> 01:01:00.559
why it became such an important symbol. And the reason I say that is

715
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:06.280
because that same cross and ionness is
then there becomes the Red Knights Templar cross,

716
01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:08.280
and then the same cross that's shown
in the Pope as well as the

717
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:14.199
British royals. It becomes almost like
the most sacred of all the crosses until

718
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:19.519
Christianity changes it into a different version
later. But the core of these of

719
01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:23.800
these symbols not only that, but
we see the tryptic doorways. We see

720
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:28.559
this understanding of the balance of tree
and life and the harmony that we have

721
01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:31.840
and the different sides and elements of
us that became the Holy Trinity in trinity

722
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:35.639
and religion later. But Jenna,
are you able to see any of the

723
01:01:35.719 --> 01:01:38.960
images that you're that you have there? Okay? Do you notice that?

724
01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:43.960
Do you have any is there?
Do you have any questions on like do

725
01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:46.159
you see the difference between the civilizations? Is it obvious to you or does

726
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:52.559
it look to you like I have
never seen the images of this temple before.

727
01:01:52.599 --> 01:01:54.840
I'm just going to be totally transparent
there, So I've never seen this

728
01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:59.800
before. I mean automatically, when
I look at this I I you know,

729
01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:02.239
I can see the remnants of like
the Flower of Life and the bottom

730
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:07.599
panel where you have the the that
figure, the winged figure, you know,

731
01:02:07.719 --> 01:02:14.880
holding the flower or tree of life, the pine coney looking object.

732
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:20.920
Yes, but also looking at the
other images along that panel. It's really

733
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:25.920
interesting because you have a catlike figure
on there as a griffin. It's actually

734
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:30.639
a griffin, and it's it's becomes
the core of the Greek civilization later,

735
01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:36.519
which that's exactly him just talks about
Plato and how in Plato's discussions they discuss

736
01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:39.559
how there's a pre land Athenian civilization
in Greece that was there at the time

737
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:45.440
of Plato. We can I can
I share a story that's going to tie

738
01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:51.440
together what Matt said about the cross
and what Jen said about these ancient civilizations

739
01:02:51.480 --> 01:02:57.559
that were considering the heavens the stars. Briefly, I'll make it, I'll

740
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:02.519
make it real quick. But this
time of year, right at dusk,

741
01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:06.039
I always go out my front door
every night, out and here in the

742
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:10.599
woods, and I see the Northern
Cross that's hanging up right in the north,

743
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:15.039
just on the horizon. And I
began to think about this for the

744
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:19.960
longest time. It's part of the
course the constellations signess this one. But

745
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:22.760
there's the Northern Cross hanging up right
up over our heads. Well, when

746
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:27.480
I first came out here twelve years
ago, fifteen years ago, I found

747
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:34.519
a number of stone piles that were
built out in the woods around our place,

748
01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:37.039
and they're all up on the top
of a little ridge. If it

749
01:03:37.039 --> 01:03:40.000
weren't for the woods, if the
trees weren't there, if this was grassland

750
01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:44.960
like it used to be, you'd
be able to see all of these different

751
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:49.840
places. And I got a friend
of mine who has all the high tech

752
01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:54.679
gizmo surveying equipment. He's a surveyor. He came out here and we went

753
01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:59.239
to each of these places, and
he got a GPS reading on each of

754
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:01.480
them. When we went back to
office and he put them out, he

755
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:04.800
put them down, and when he
put them on a piece of paper,

756
01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:10.599
they look so familiar where the GPS
coordinates were over our map. So we

757
01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:15.440
shrunk down the size a little bit
so it would correspond to a sky chart

758
01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:19.840
that shows the Northern Cross, and
they corresponded exactly. You could put these

759
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:26.239
stone piles around the woods on my
place. You could put it down exactly

760
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:30.719
over a northern cross sky chart,
and they would match exactly. Well.

761
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:33.920
When I saw that, I said, something's up here because I could just

762
01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:38.079
I could just see this people that
at this time of year is when the

763
01:04:38.079 --> 01:04:40.519
cross was there, So it would
be the time of the winter solstice,

764
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:44.119
and they were all up on top
of these ridge marks. So if everybody

765
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:45.960
were to build a fire on a
certain night of the year, the shortest

766
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:49.559
and longest night of the year,
they would in effect bring Heaven down to

767
01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:56.760
Earth, and as above, so
below. So when I was so fascinated,

768
01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:03.719
but I wrote to oh, what's
his name, Andrew Collins, and

769
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:11.440
I told him about this because he's
such a expert on signas and signess cults.

770
01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:14.599
And he wrote back to me within
twenty minutes, I guess, and

771
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:19.159
he said, is there a bird
cult in your area that might signify this?

772
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:23.800
That? I mean, now we're
talking really ancient well, North Carolina,

773
01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:27.920
right South Carolina, North Carolina,
but right across the river from me,

774
01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:31.880
not eighty miles away, there is
the two great Stone effigies that have

775
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:36.320
been dated to four or five thousand
years ago. One is the Stone Cross

776
01:05:36.320 --> 01:05:43.239
and the Stone Eagle, and the
other is the stone Hawk, and right

777
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:46.880
on my property there is a pile
of stones that is now spread out all

778
01:05:46.880 --> 01:05:50.719
over the place. And I've talked
to all kinds of people about where these

779
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:54.480
things may have come from. But
if you walk around the edge of it,

780
01:05:54.880 --> 01:05:59.599
you can see that it marks exactly
the idea of it's a bird cult,

781
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:02.400
basically make a long strive. I've
written about it in some books.

782
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:05.440
I'm opening to it now because i
know we're a little strapped on time,

783
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:12.320
but to make that idea of the
cross was obviously brought down to earth here

784
01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:16.159
in South Carolina, and now Matt's
talking about it in Lake van and Jen

785
01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:20.280
was talking about looking at the stars
and seeing all these different things. It

786
01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:27.599
just is amazing to me how long
ago there were people on the Earth who

787
01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:30.960
were trying to bring these things down, bring the heavens down to earth as

788
01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:36.000
above so below. Yeah, it's
just everywhere. That synergy it seems to

789
01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:41.119
be critically important. And Jen mentioned
there's so many comparisons to Lake tid Kaka

790
01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:45.840
with Lake Vaughan that it's almost uncanny. They seem to have this intense interest

791
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:49.400
interest in these giant, navel like
lakes that are incredibly deep, surrounded by

792
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:53.800
volcanoes, and both of those locations
had that. Now, Gen, I

793
01:06:53.880 --> 01:06:58.480
emailed you the images from those locations
just now, and I just want to

794
01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:02.639
summarize for because I know we got
to move on to Gym. But these

795
01:07:03.480 --> 01:07:09.280
these ruins from around Lake Vaughan,
from this civilization that I'm discussing, they're

796
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:11.519
out of time and out of place. And I didn't mention this yet.

797
01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:15.840
I just kind of briefly mention is
that there are cuneiform writings at Cavis that

798
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:21.840
specifically have the names King Hike and
the bloodline descendants of Noah in the stone

799
01:07:23.599 --> 01:07:27.960
from being Japeth from his son of
Noah, showing that the actual story was

800
01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:32.039
true and that those legends are actually
based on an original story of the last

801
01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:35.000
Sumerian king. I mean, that's
like a movie, right, the last

802
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:41.719
Samarian king up full time. I
like that who had three sons who they

803
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:45.320
survived a catastrophe and they were given
knowledge on how to rebuild the new world.

804
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:49.679
And I believe that that that civilization
there, with the First Cross and

805
01:07:49.719 --> 01:07:54.599
the ascension teachings that are incorporated with
it, then spread around the world with

806
01:07:55.159 --> 01:08:00.159
the knowledge of megalithic building. Because
the Sumerians built with, so they didn't

807
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:02.719
have anything to do with that,
and so we see something that comes out

808
01:08:02.760 --> 01:08:08.480
of nowhere with these giant basalt stones
that are built as well as andesite.

809
01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:11.960
Jen might know, andesite is a
seven on the most hardness scale, with

810
01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:15.199
basal being a six to six and
a half. That ionis temple with the

811
01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:19.399
first cross is built out of andesite, with the primitive brick and mortar almost

812
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:24.399
like eroded almost completely on top from
the Urartians that had nothing to do with

813
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:28.239
it, but clearly they found that
civilization and they built and unored it in

814
01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:33.319
their temple. But the point is
that those teachings I believe, and the

815
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:40.199
teachings of megalithic building and reaching these
incredible states and the teachings of consciousness through

816
01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:46.359
all these ascension teachings then traveled around
to South America with Bolivia with Tiawanaku and

817
01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:51.640
Puma Punku. Because there you see
the same cross, the same triptic doorway.

818
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:59.000
There you see the same the chikana
symbol which became the ziggarot step pyramid,

819
01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:02.760
but combined with the as above so
below versions it's wild. Jen.

820
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:06.359
Check out that email. You can
nerd out on those images when you get

821
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:13.760
a chance. But it's just amazing. The implications here could be enormous.

822
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:15.600
And so just to end out before
we move on, Cliff, it's just

823
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:19.279
to say that this has got the
attention of people already around the world,

824
01:09:19.600 --> 01:09:26.159
and I'm already I'm leading a very
significant film project with some big directors and

825
01:09:26.199 --> 01:09:30.560
producers in Hollywood, along with experts
such as Billy Carson, biblical expert Paul

826
01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:35.399
Wallace, and megalithic expert Brian Forster. To go to Lake Farm with these

827
01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:40.079
locations, to go to Ankora where
there's an artifact at a basement there that

828
01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:43.640
doesn't nobody wants to know about.
There's kidd in there, and then all

829
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:48.399
across the world to Tiwanaku and Puma
Punku to show the same symbols, same

830
01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:54.359
stone, same comparison, to show
there was a story, an origin point

831
01:09:54.399 --> 01:10:00.399
of knowledge that passed around the world
and became the core of a miss that

832
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:03.319
we're trying to figure out. And
then mystery seems to lead back to Lake

833
01:10:03.439 --> 01:10:08.640
Vaughan in this lost era as civilization. Yeah, I have so many questions

834
01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:11.680
for you on this, Matt,
and guess what You're back on the program

835
01:10:11.720 --> 01:10:15.119
in two weeks, I know,
and it's a full program to discuss this,

836
01:10:15.239 --> 01:10:18.000
so you can spill it at that
time, okay. And now I'll

837
01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:23.279
generate a significant number of questions because
I have only watched part of the two

838
01:10:23.319 --> 01:10:28.000
hour video you made. And so
let's sen and Matt. I want to

839
01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:31.560
know where you were twenty years ago
when I was doing biblical mythology seminars.

840
01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:34.720
Jim, it sounds like we could
use you, you and Jen like we

841
01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:40.239
might have to get like an increase
the team here, seriously, but no,

842
01:10:40.359 --> 01:10:45.199
it's amazing. It seems like archaeology
and science and spirituality and religion are

843
01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:49.760
all crashing together in one place here, and the implications could be enormous.

844
01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:53.840
I mean, think about it.
If it's the same cross that originated from

845
01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:57.720
there that became the core of secret
societies and groups like the Knights, Templar,

846
01:10:58.039 --> 01:11:00.680
and the highest orders of our religion
in the end, the bird cults,

847
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:05.560
of bird cults of sound of the
United States. It's incredible. So

848
01:11:06.119 --> 01:11:10.079
yeah, let's let's see. If
anyone wants to be a part of that

849
01:11:10.199 --> 01:11:13.319
journey, please go to the stage
of Time dot com if you're interested.

850
01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:16.840
Okay, fantastic. Thanks Matt,
that is fantastic, and we're gonna hear

851
01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:20.520
more from you. And like I
said in a couple of weeks on that,

852
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:25.960
on that amazing find, we're gonna
move over to the gym. And

853
01:11:26.319 --> 01:11:30.600
uh, this article that you sent
me kind of a new cosmology in a

854
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:38.079
way focused on the James Webb Telescope, but give us the background on well

855
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:44.760
one of my favorite people with who
is Fred Hoyle? And for four days

856
01:11:44.800 --> 01:11:50.880
ago marks the On the twenty fifth
of December marks the second anniversary of the

857
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:57.439
James Web Telescope being launched. And
so it's just been two years and I

858
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:01.039
am absolutely amazed at what has happened. I expected to see a lot of

859
01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:05.920
cosmology. I mean, Jen,
you know, Matt took us back fifteen

860
01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:09.960
thousand years. Jen took us back
a half a million years. I'm going

861
01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:15.159
to take us back fifteen billion or
fourteen billion years or thirteen point eight billionaires.

862
01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:19.640
When the James Webb Telescope was launched, I expected to find all kinds

863
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:25.439
of fascinating science. There's no doubt
about that. What has amazed me is

864
01:12:25.479 --> 01:12:30.479
that has overlapped into my area of
interest, which has been my area of

865
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:35.680
interest for fifty years now. And
that's the whole idea of consciousness and consciousness

866
01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:41.399
in the brain. Is the mind
the same as the brain? What is

867
01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:45.039
consciousness? And of course, when
I began to start, you know,

868
01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:49.600
studying the results that comes out of
the whole field of quantum mechanics, it's

869
01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:55.359
only one hundred years old right now, which just seems to scream at all

870
01:12:55.479 --> 01:13:00.720
kinds of things that the Hindu Rishis
were saying six thousand years ago. When

871
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:04.680
you get into it, I expected
to find the science. What I didn't

872
01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:12.159
expect was that it would totally turn
cosmology up on its head and push everything

873
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:16.319
way back. I remember being part
of oh long time ago now, I

874
01:13:16.399 --> 01:13:20.920
was part of a podcast. I
was the token minister to a bunch of

875
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:25.560
scientists who were there, and I
was the one who was you know,

876
01:13:25.640 --> 01:13:29.720
supposed to you know, ground us
all in religion and all that. I

877
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:32.800
saw that, Jim, I remember
that. I remember asking a question,

878
01:13:33.680 --> 01:13:36.920
you know, what came before the
Big Bang? And I, you know,

879
01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:41.319
I had a bunch of very you
know, brilliant scientists. They were

880
01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:44.720
kind of like patronizing me, patting
me on the head, saying, oh,

881
01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:46.039
you're just a lame when you don't
know any better. There was no

882
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:49.039
before the Big Bang. There couldn't
have been, because time came at the

883
01:13:49.039 --> 01:13:53.520
Big Bang. Time and spaceball came
at the Big Bang. There was nothing

884
01:13:53.560 --> 01:13:56.880
before. It was a dumb question. Basically. They were much more polite

885
01:13:56.880 --> 01:14:01.479
than that. But now all of
a sudden, I'm find scientists, not

886
01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:08.159
only the the the popular ones that
you see on you know, the talking

887
01:14:08.199 --> 01:14:12.079
heads and stuff that you see,
but I'm amazing to hear them talking now,

888
01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:17.640
and what they're saying sounds much more
like metaphysics than physics. Now we're

889
01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:24.840
talking about infinity, we're talking about
eternity. I mean, for a theologian,

890
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:29.359
those are buzzwords practically, you know, we're talking about black holes and

891
01:14:29.960 --> 01:14:34.239
holographic universes. We're talking about the
multiverse. And now all of a sudden,

892
01:14:34.279 --> 01:14:41.039
filtering down into the popular the popular
interest. In only the last couple

893
01:14:41.119 --> 01:14:45.880
of years, people are now talking
about Fred Hoyle's whole idea of the anthropic

894
01:14:46.640 --> 01:14:54.079
uh principles of you know, Fred
Hoyle was very concerned about the idea of

895
01:14:54.159 --> 01:15:00.359
an eternal I mean, the Big
Bang and everything else, and his need

896
01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:05.319
to observe the universe, and he
came out and said, the universe cannot

897
01:15:05.359 --> 01:15:14.560
exist without a consciousness that is there
to observe it, consciousness of some kind,

898
01:15:14.600 --> 01:15:18.000
not necessarily human consciousness, of course. And yeah, and now we're

899
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:23.319
talking. You know, you meet
people on the street who were talking about

900
01:15:23.319 --> 01:15:26.119
the finely tuned universe. You know, a little more of this, a

901
01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:30.319
little more of that, we couldn't
even possibly exist. How did it happen?

902
01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:38.920
And so now we moved from animism
probably the world's oldest organized religion,

903
01:15:38.960 --> 01:15:45.000
although with jen putting us back that
long, probably a lot of religion before

904
01:15:45.079 --> 01:15:54.680
animism came along. But animism followed
by pantheism, followed by panentheism, followed

905
01:15:54.720 --> 01:16:00.680
by pan psychism, and now biocentrism, all of these different ways looking at

906
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:05.800
the universe. And it's not amazing
to me that the upper echelons of these

907
01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:12.000
of science and cosmologists are talking about
these things. What gets me is how

908
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:15.479
it's filtering down to the people on
the street, and people are really interested

909
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.680
in this old day the whole thing. Now, So when the James Webb

910
01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:28.039
telescope looks out and sees black holes
that possibly were formed before the universe,

911
01:16:28.119 --> 01:16:31.279
in effect, they're answering that question
that I asked what came before the Big

912
01:16:31.319 --> 01:16:34.640
Bang? And I was told,
don't even think of those terms. Well,

913
01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:40.279
now it's common place to think about
in those terms. People are starting

914
01:16:40.319 --> 01:16:43.800
to really get it. I think
it's going to expand our idea totally.

915
01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:47.560
And the reason I think that's so
important is because I really do believe that

916
01:16:47.680 --> 01:16:54.880
humankind right now is at a crossroads. We're dealing with some pretty dangerous toys

917
01:16:54.880 --> 01:16:58.960
when we're talking about climate change,
when we're talking about nuclear energy, when

918
01:16:58.960 --> 01:17:01.760
we're talking about all these different playthings
that we've got, and I'm not sure

919
01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:05.760
our morality has kept up with it. I'm not sure our spirituality has kept

920
01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:11.039
up with it. We're at a
dangerous time and we're starting to look at

921
01:17:11.079 --> 01:17:15.800
each other now and wonder how many
ways can we destroy the world, either

922
01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:21.600
politically or economically, or physically or
whatever. If we can get our mind

923
01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:30.119
off our own little problems that we
have down here looking at each other and

924
01:17:30.119 --> 01:17:33.159
blaming each other, if we can
get our mind off that, project them

925
01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:40.439
into the universe and begin to contemplate
things like eternity and infinite in infinity,

926
01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:45.159
and to think of something that's other, something that's bigger than us. That

927
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:50.439
could possibly be the thing that would
make us unite as a human species rather

928
01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:56.479
than divide us. And that's really
what I'm hoping for. And I can't

929
01:17:56.479 --> 01:18:01.600
help but think that the scientific community
and the religious community, I like to

930
01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:06.920
say the spiritual community, because religion
is different than spirituality. But the scientific

931
01:18:06.920 --> 01:18:12.199
community and the spiritual community have been
going parallel to each other. And they

932
01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:15.640
don't want to slash water over into
the other's boat, you know, But

933
01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:17.840
they've been going parallel to each other
down two lanes of a highway. Boy,

934
01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:21.039
am I changing my metaphors now?
Two lanes of a highway, And

935
01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:27.000
I'm wondering if those lanes are now
starting to merge for the first time.

936
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:32.960
The science is giving us a language
to try to describe something in a language

937
01:18:32.960 --> 01:18:41.319
that we can understand that ancient humans
way back half a million years ago and

938
01:18:41.880 --> 01:18:47.720
more they somehow intuitively understood what we
are now scientifically beginning to talk about.

939
01:18:48.199 --> 01:18:53.359
And that's why I was just so
fascinated about the James Webb telescope. Sounds

940
01:18:53.399 --> 01:18:57.760
kind of high falutin, but that's
that's really Jim. If time isn't linear,

941
01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:00.479
right, and you're looking back then, then how are you how could

942
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:05.159
you possibly describe the beginnings of something
exactly exactly? I don't think you can.

943
01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:11.039
I don't. I think, Uh, basically, people are becoming more

944
01:19:11.079 --> 01:19:15.239
comfortable now with the idea of an
illusion the material world that we look at,

945
01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:19.640
that we experience through our through our
senses, our senses comprise that I

946
01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:25.760
like to call it a fivefold fence
that are very I mean, it evolved

947
01:19:25.800 --> 01:19:29.479
within us for a very good purpose. Uh. It protects us from having

948
01:19:29.479 --> 01:19:32.439
too much information come in all at
once, but it also protects us from

949
01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:35.199
being able to see out. And
I think right now we're beginning to peek

950
01:19:35.239 --> 01:19:42.600
over the fence of our, of
our, of our, of our you

951
01:19:42.640 --> 01:19:49.239
know, the basic tools that we
use to interpret the world. We're looking

952
01:19:49.359 --> 01:19:54.960
at the sensus. Yes, it's
so interesting you say that, Jim,

953
01:19:55.079 --> 01:20:02.319
because I my son is an autistic
person and his perception of just existence in

954
01:20:02.359 --> 01:20:06.600
general is so different, you know. And I think that there is this

955
01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:13.479
human experience that we have, but
we're all having a different experience and that

956
01:20:13.680 --> 01:20:16.960
goes to that you know, consciousness
that we share or not share, for

957
01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:20.720
that matter. And I agree with
you, it's starting to collectively you know,

958
01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:26.000
the lanes are merging, as you
said, And who is to say

959
01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:30.520
that your son may have a more
real interpretation than we do. We just

960
01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:33.439
there are more of us, So
we just assume or at least we're exactly

961
01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:36.800
So we just assume that ours is
the way of looking at it. Who

962
01:20:36.840 --> 01:20:41.960
is to say that your son isn't
really saying passed into the real reality I

963
01:20:42.039 --> 01:20:45.399
like to say, I like to
say it's all real, but what we

964
01:20:45.479 --> 01:20:53.079
call real is just part of the
capital our reality. I think we're going

965
01:20:53.119 --> 01:20:58.159
to take a break to allow our
sponsors to identify themselves, and we will

966
01:20:58.199 --> 01:21:33.760
return with my handle us today discussing
twenty twenty three, the year in review.

967
01:21:45.439 --> 01:21:50.880
We're looking back this week on some
of the more important discoveries of twenty

968
01:21:50.960 --> 01:21:55.560
twenty three, how they affect us, and what we can look forward to

969
01:21:55.960 --> 01:22:05.560
in the near future. Jim talk
a little bit about Hoyle's description of a

970
01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:10.960
reality that that we're creating in a
reality that could be created for us.

971
01:22:11.840 --> 01:22:17.800
I thought that was interesting in that
article. Oh I I may be in

972
01:22:17.800 --> 01:22:24.159
trouble because I can't remember what I
wrote in the art about You know,

973
01:22:24.239 --> 01:22:28.039
we talk about how we create our
own reality and it's still a constant.

974
01:22:29.560 --> 01:22:33.680
Fred Fred Hoyle, he was.
He was able to do something that even

975
01:22:33.680 --> 01:22:39.039
Albert Einstein wasn't able to do.
When Einstein first came across quantum reality,

976
01:22:39.079 --> 01:22:42.920
he didn't believe in it, you
know, he didn't believe in this whole

977
01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:48.159
idea of uh and of consciousness,
human consciousness or any kind of consciousness actually

978
01:22:48.520 --> 01:22:53.920
creating the right reality in which it
lives. And you know, his famous

979
01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:57.439
comment, Einstein's famous comment was you
mean if if you know, the moon

980
01:22:57.520 --> 01:23:00.159
disappears if I'm not looking at it, you know. And but you know,

981
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:05.319
fred Hoyle saw beyond that, and
he was the one that first began

982
01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:12.399
to see that it just could be
that we are much more involved in the

983
01:23:12.520 --> 01:23:16.960
creation of our reality than we think
we are. And we always looked tend

984
01:23:17.039 --> 01:23:20.479
to look at reality as being a
stage, an empty stage. It would

985
01:23:20.479 --> 01:23:27.279
be there whether we were here or
not. But now Fred Hoyle came along

986
01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:31.079
and said, maybe not, Maybe
we are creating the stage. You know,

987
01:23:31.119 --> 01:23:33.520
the old thing about it, if
a tree falls in the forest,

988
01:23:33.760 --> 01:23:36.840
is there any sound? Well,
now the question is if a tree falls

989
01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:41.119
into the forest and nobody's there to
see it, maybe there was no tree.

990
01:23:41.680 --> 01:23:45.760
You know that kind of thing.
He didn't see reality as a stage

991
01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:50.640
upon which we enter. He didn't
believe in the concept of what is called

992
01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:57.560
emergence. He didn't believe that consciousness
emerged into reality. He believed that consciousness

993
01:23:57.640 --> 01:24:00.920
came first. In other words,
consciousness could very well be the ground of

994
01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:04.560
our being, the source from which
we all come. And if that's the

995
01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:08.000
case, it opens up all kinds
of questions. You know, why are

996
01:24:08.039 --> 01:24:12.880
we here on earth. Maybe we're
here to experience. Maybe we're here to

997
01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:17.880
give consciousness for the first time eyes
physical eyes, and physical ears and senses

998
01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:24.640
and everything notts to experience. I
find that very comforting in a very practical

999
01:24:24.680 --> 01:24:27.680
way. When life is very difficult, and I'm having a hard time making

1000
01:24:27.760 --> 01:24:30.960
ends meet or looking around and seeing
what's going out there, and life is

1001
01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:34.880
tough, I find it very comforting
to think that maybe that's one of the

1002
01:24:34.920 --> 01:24:41.479
reasons I came here to experience that
very thing, and I am giving consciousness

1003
01:24:41.520 --> 01:24:46.079
and experience in a material reality that
it could not have without me and without

1004
01:24:46.119 --> 01:24:50.439
the other billions of people who are
here on the earth. To me,

1005
01:24:50.520 --> 01:24:57.039
it just opens up the whole thing. And as a systematic theologian, my

1006
01:24:57.079 --> 01:25:00.640
whole life. It opens up my
whole concept of what God could mean,

1007
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:08.039
the idea of consciousness, the idea
of greater reality, the ground of our

1008
01:25:08.079 --> 01:25:12.960
being, the source, mystical source
that we can probably never really understand.

1009
01:25:13.600 --> 01:25:15.960
But I got a snaking suspicion that
the old timers, the real ancients that

1010
01:25:16.039 --> 01:25:19.720
Jen was talking about and that Matt
was talking about, I've got a sneaking

1011
01:25:19.800 --> 01:25:28.960
suspicion that they intuited this and created
their own spiritual framework because probably living in

1012
01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:31.239
a different kind of world than we
are, it wasn't as noisy, it

1013
01:25:31.279 --> 01:25:35.199
wasn't as chaotic, it wasn't as
confusion. They probably had more time to

1014
01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:40.920
contemplate and to meditate on these things. It was something that I never knew

1015
01:25:41.039 --> 01:25:45.279
was that important until I retired and
basically came out here to live in the

1016
01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:50.439
woods for one year twelve years ago, and it just entered into a twelve

1017
01:25:50.479 --> 01:25:56.840
year meditation and it's just getting bigger
all the time. And that's I think

1018
01:25:56.880 --> 01:26:00.520
what it takes. And I think
probably the old timers, maybe they were

1019
01:26:00.520 --> 01:26:04.000
better at it than we were.
On us left brain, I think you're

1020
01:26:04.039 --> 01:26:09.079
you built a property over a lay
line like that, I think I think

1021
01:26:09.159 --> 01:26:12.399
your property is over a lay like
is in the last it is five years

1022
01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:15.880
you've been prolific in your writing.
Well, I came out here. I

1023
01:26:15.880 --> 01:26:20.439
thought I came out here just to
retire, and that was twelve years ago

1024
01:26:20.520 --> 01:26:26.960
and twenty two books later. I've
got another book coming out this spring on

1025
01:26:27.920 --> 01:26:33.359
near death experiences, and then one
after that on lost Buried Treasure. So

1026
01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:38.640
it's just been it's just been wonderful. It's been a lot of fun.

1027
01:26:38.760 --> 01:26:43.600
But it takes sometimes breaking away,
and I'm just thankful I've had the opportunity

1028
01:26:43.600 --> 01:26:45.760
to do it. Not a lot
of people don't. They just can't.

1029
01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:48.439
It isn't practical for them. But
I think that's where clarity comes from.

1030
01:26:48.560 --> 01:26:51.279
Jim. You get out in the
nature, you you connect to that balance,

1031
01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:56.560
and that's the whole point of what
those ancient relics and those discoct depictions

1032
01:26:56.600 --> 01:27:00.319
from like kef Temple with this.
If you want to achieve balance and highest

1033
01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:03.680
stays of consciousness, the first thing
is you must find balance, and specifically

1034
01:27:03.720 --> 01:27:09.079
balance through harmony with all things.
And what you were saying is that it

1035
01:27:09.119 --> 01:27:12.479
seems more like what these ancient teachings
are trying to tell us and what you

1036
01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:16.439
were just saying, very very beautifully
is that seems it's more of like a

1037
01:27:16.479 --> 01:27:23.520
game where we start from a point
of being maybe very powerful and incredible,

1038
01:27:23.560 --> 01:27:26.880
and we forget everything, and then
we have to try to find our way

1039
01:27:26.880 --> 01:27:32.159
back to that point and that return
home. Is what I think we're in

1040
01:27:32.239 --> 01:27:36.199
right now, is that we're finally
finding your way home and realizing who we

1041
01:27:36.239 --> 01:27:44.279
really are. And perhaps with Jim's
wisdom and Gen's intellect in the archaeological world

1042
01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:48.119
and these new discoveries and all these
new paradigm changing things, with these teachings

1043
01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:53.640
that seem to connect us to the
very divinity of the universe itself, perhaps

1044
01:27:53.720 --> 01:27:56.800
we're on the edge of figuring that
out finally. Oh I hope so,

1045
01:27:57.199 --> 01:28:00.000
I hope. Yeah. Otherwise we're
looking at another loss civiliss. There's been

1046
01:28:00.079 --> 01:28:04.760
enough of those in this world.
Jim, Why should we care about looking

1047
01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:09.800
deep into space? I mean,
the James Webb telescopes is a brilliant piece

1048
01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:16.560
of machinery, But why should we
care about looking deeper into the cosmos?

1049
01:28:17.199 --> 01:28:21.279
I think when we look into the
cosmos and we realize, as we now

1050
01:28:21.359 --> 01:28:26.479
know, we're never going to be
able to see the end of it because

1051
01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:30.439
it is expanding faster than the speed
of light, and of course we can

1052
01:28:30.479 --> 01:28:32.600
only see things, so the speed
of light. I think when we look

1053
01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:38.720
at that, it forces us to
consider the meaning of some big words,

1054
01:28:38.840 --> 01:28:45.520
infinity and eternity. And if we
really meditate on those two words, infinity

1055
01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:50.840
and eternity, it will do more
than every religious lesson you've ever been taught

1056
01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:57.239
in any Sunday school or Sabbath school
or anything. Just the whole idea of

1057
01:28:57.399 --> 01:29:03.479
infinity and eternity makes us aware that
we are more than our human bodies,

1058
01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:08.399
that there's we're a part of something
much bigger, That consciousness is much bigger,

1059
01:29:09.159 --> 01:29:14.600
and it portrays itself, I think
in wonderful ways. I'm going to

1060
01:29:14.680 --> 01:29:17.600
take with me from this discussion.
For instance, a Gen's idea of people

1061
01:29:18.640 --> 01:29:23.239
wanting to build this thing to keep
them getting their feet wet. I mean,

1062
01:29:23.600 --> 01:29:26.560
have you ever seen any other animal
on earth wanting to do that?

1063
01:29:27.359 --> 01:29:30.840
Never, you know, jumping from
rock to rock maybe, but actually manipulating

1064
01:29:30.880 --> 01:29:38.520
the environment. And when you talk
about Matt's idea of building these uh,

1065
01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:44.000
these temples and these crosses and these
religious icons, and what's the whole,

1066
01:29:44.319 --> 01:29:48.600
what's the whole purpose of them to
pitch us out from our inside and pitch

1067
01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:54.479
us out into infinity, and to
pitch us out into eternity. And you

1068
01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:58.159
realize it takes away in a practical
way. It even takes away our fear

1069
01:29:58.199 --> 01:30:02.279
of death. How why do you? I mean, I'm almost seventy eight

1070
01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:05.600
years old, now, why should
I fear death? When I know that

1071
01:30:05.960 --> 01:30:10.319
nobody ever really dies? You know, we are just a part of something

1072
01:30:10.319 --> 01:30:15.000
so much bigger. The body falls
away and we are in that infinity and

1073
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:17.960
eternity, which right now we're just
trying to say. That's why I think

1074
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:24.960
the James Webb Space Telescope is so
so important, because it's just popping our

1075
01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:30.479
minds open. But more important,
it's opening up our hearts and dare I

1076
01:30:30.520 --> 01:30:36.399
say, souls or whatever, to
really contemplate something bigger than ourselves. To

1077
01:30:36.439 --> 01:30:41.800
me, it's just all inspiring out. I go out now at night.

1078
01:30:42.279 --> 01:30:45.399
I live out here in the woods, and you know, weeks go by

1079
01:30:45.439 --> 01:30:47.479
sometimes when I don't even see anybody
else or hear anybody else, and I

1080
01:30:47.479 --> 01:30:49.039
go out there, and who was? I look up at the sky at

1081
01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:53.760
night and I think that I'm standing. I mean, we have found artifacts,

1082
01:30:53.800 --> 01:30:57.840
right here on our property. We've
found arrowheads, we've found hoes,

1083
01:30:57.880 --> 01:31:00.039
we've found spear points and all this
kind of thing. So I know that

1084
01:31:00.079 --> 01:31:03.199
people were right here on this property. As a matter of fact, we

1085
01:31:03.399 --> 01:31:10.279
probably they were probably guided here by
the same Earth energy that I first found

1086
01:31:10.319 --> 01:31:15.359
when I learned how to dows and
the energy lines that flow through this property

1087
01:31:15.119 --> 01:31:17.840
and right right through the house.
Matter of fact, right I'm talking to

1088
01:31:17.920 --> 01:31:23.159
you right now, sitting right in
the middle of a lay line which runs

1089
01:31:23.239 --> 01:31:28.520
all the way from the Atlantic coast, and if you plot it on a

1090
01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:32.680
map, it goes all the way
through the Great Medicine Wheel in North Dakota

1091
01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:39.439
and out towards Seattle out that way, And just to think of that kind

1092
01:31:39.479 --> 01:31:43.920
of energy flowing through our bodies.
But we don't realize it. We don't

1093
01:31:43.960 --> 01:31:48.479
know it until we begin to zero
down on it, which is why I

1094
01:31:48.520 --> 01:31:51.640
think dowsing is so important. We
zero down on it and find it,

1095
01:31:53.159 --> 01:31:56.319
and all of a sudden, it
just makes us realize we're part of a

1096
01:31:56.359 --> 01:32:02.439
planet and a planetary history and a
universe history at Cosmos that is just so

1097
01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:09.319
infinite and so eternal, and we
are a small part of that. I'm

1098
01:32:09.880 --> 01:32:12.680
just in awe of it. Yeah, it's amazing, beautiful, Jim,

1099
01:32:13.159 --> 01:32:17.920
I launched and by the way,
we're celebrating our tenth year Earth Ancients was

1100
01:32:18.000 --> 01:32:25.399
launched in twenty fourteen, which is
ten years in April grass Yere. Yeah,

1101
01:32:25.439 --> 01:32:30.439
thank you. And I tell you
I am very passionate about the past,

1102
01:32:30.479 --> 01:32:32.279
and from a very young age I
questioned history. I mean, they

1103
01:32:32.319 --> 01:32:35.319
would kick me at Jim, I'm
sorry to say, I'd be kicked out

1104
01:32:35.359 --> 01:32:41.000
of Sunday School because I sit there
and the teacher would be reading out of

1105
01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:45.800
the Bible and I'd say it doesn't
sound right. Yeah, And to say

1106
01:32:45.840 --> 01:32:50.960
that at twelve years old or something
like that, blasphemous, blasphem how and

1107
01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:55.720
I'd be asked to leave. After
a while, my folks got the message

1108
01:32:55.760 --> 01:32:59.199
and they would invite me to Sunday
School any more. But probably probably the

1109
01:32:59.199 --> 01:33:01.079
best thing that happened to both you
and your teacher, Cliff. I think

1110
01:33:02.239 --> 01:33:05.800
to me to Cliff, really similar
road in that. Yeah, but I

1111
01:33:05.880 --> 01:33:11.760
had it happened to me too.
I just came back. That's why I

1112
01:33:11.800 --> 01:33:15.760
had a bad influence. My grandfather
was this country doctor had this and I

1113
01:33:15.800 --> 01:33:19.840
talk about this all the time.
This world class library that had very early

1114
01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:26.520
writings people like Charles Fort and some
of these other guys who were questioning history

1115
01:33:26.560 --> 01:33:30.880
and looking at the anomalies of the
world. And I bought into that hook

1116
01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:34.319
line and sinker to the point where
it kind of fed fed me. And

1117
01:33:34.359 --> 01:33:42.119
here I am now, but ten
years and going strong. This wonderful group,

1118
01:33:42.359 --> 01:33:47.079
thank you for joining me. Continues
the question of what happened in the

1119
01:33:47.079 --> 01:33:51.479
beginning, where, how is our
history work? How is our history formed?

1120
01:33:53.000 --> 01:33:57.279
And who makes the decisions of our
history? I have found, and

1121
01:33:57.319 --> 01:34:00.800
I think all of you will agree
that a lot of history is questions and

1122
01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:09.079
subs and formulations of ideas. That
is as far as they can take it.

1123
01:34:09.159 --> 01:34:13.159
And this is our history books.
So there's questions and that are not

1124
01:34:13.199 --> 01:34:19.920
being answered sufficiently in my feeling about
the whole thing. So as we conclude,

1125
01:34:19.960 --> 01:34:26.199
I want to talk about a discussion
that I've had a topic of America,

1126
01:34:26.439 --> 01:34:32.239
North America being seemingly the youngest of
all the discoveries, whereas the Turkey

1127
01:34:32.520 --> 01:34:39.159
and Egypt and Central and South America
have these ancient societies. Everyone thinks that

1128
01:34:39.279 --> 01:34:46.560
America had these people that were perhaps
you know, twelve fourteen thousand years ago

1129
01:34:46.640 --> 01:34:50.680
some of the as far as it
goes. But in the last couple of

1130
01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:58.199
years I've had experts on archaeologists,
most notably doctor Pauline Steves, who has

1131
01:34:58.560 --> 01:35:01.720
who, by the way, is
an indigenous archaeologist who has gone back to

1132
01:35:01.800 --> 01:35:10.479
the well known sites of the United
States and redated them. Most of these

1133
01:35:10.520 --> 01:35:14.920
sites are being redated to one hundred
thousand plus years in the past, and

1134
01:35:14.960 --> 01:35:18.920
which is blowing people's socks off.
And the other thing we have to note

1135
01:35:18.960 --> 01:35:28.760
is that Steves is a indigenous archaeologist
from Canada and these discoveries that she has

1136
01:35:28.840 --> 01:35:33.720
made typically are based on oral traditions. And for many, many years,

1137
01:35:33.840 --> 01:35:40.640
oral traditions were set aside because they
were not able to validate them. You

1138
01:35:40.720 --> 01:35:46.399
can't use any scientific method for oral
traditions. But what she did was brilliant.

1139
01:35:47.279 --> 01:35:54.720
She worked with different tribes around different
parts of the country and correlated oral

1140
01:35:54.760 --> 01:35:58.760
traditions. Well, if the flood
was around this time period, and this

1141
01:35:58.920 --> 01:36:02.119
was going on with the the planets, how can we validate that. Well,

1142
01:36:02.119 --> 01:36:08.359
we validate it with other tribes,
other people who have the same stories,

1143
01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:13.119
the same myths, the same legends. And this is a new form

1144
01:36:13.279 --> 01:36:19.319
of discovery. Of a new form
of reference oral traditions. So I'm excited

1145
01:36:19.359 --> 01:36:26.159
about that, but even more so
in Montana, there's a place called where

1146
01:36:26.279 --> 01:36:31.359
is it? It is the Sage
Yeah, Sagewall Elkhorn Mountains is the area,

1147
01:36:32.399 --> 01:36:38.279
and I've had a regular listener and
also a contributor on my Facebook page.

1148
01:36:38.359 --> 01:36:44.199
Her name is Julie Ryder, who
is the caretaker of a number of

1149
01:36:44.600 --> 01:36:49.159
monuments that I had heard about,
and I pretty much was like, well,

1150
01:36:49.279 --> 01:36:54.720
Julie, I can't really buy into
this because it doesn't make sense.

1151
01:36:55.640 --> 01:37:00.199
And she was starting to send photographs
and she began compiling a huge, huge

1152
01:37:00.319 --> 01:37:03.479
library of photographs. So what I
did is in November of this year,

1153
01:37:03.600 --> 01:37:09.880
I flew out to visit with her
in Montana to see these ruins in person,

1154
01:37:10.800 --> 01:37:15.960
and I gotta say tell you,
I was blown away because there are

1155
01:37:15.119 --> 01:37:23.640
dolmen there, there are monoliths standing
stones that humans have put together, and

1156
01:37:23.960 --> 01:37:29.479
most impressive is what they call the
Sage Wall, which is this megalithic wall

1157
01:37:29.560 --> 01:37:36.439
made up of mega ton blocks that
has been perfectly aligned, perfectly stacked and

1158
01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:45.680
positioned, and it was written off
and has continued to be written off for

1159
01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:50.680
the last couple of years until about
twelve months ago when a team of geologists

1160
01:37:50.680 --> 01:37:59.680
and archaeologists went out there and started
using ground penetrating radar and surveying equipment and

1161
01:37:59.720 --> 01:38:05.920
all so other scanning technology and have
discovered that the Sage wall not only sits

1162
01:38:05.920 --> 01:38:15.800
on a piece of real estate that
has been paved with concrete sixteen feet below

1163
01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:23.239
the surface, but that the stones
have unusual knobs that we find in South

1164
01:38:23.279 --> 01:38:29.159
America we find in different parts of
Europe, which is a sign of human

1165
01:38:29.359 --> 01:38:35.800
occupation. The dates have not come
back. There's some tentative days of about

1166
01:38:35.920 --> 01:38:42.359
fifteen twenty thousand years, but the
feeling now is, and this is hard

1167
01:38:42.399 --> 01:38:47.960
one gin is that it's likely between
eighty to one hundred plus thousand years old,

1168
01:38:48.760 --> 01:38:56.720
and this is pre Ice age,
this is pre human settlement as we

1169
01:38:56.760 --> 01:39:00.560
know it. And this whole area, this Montana megalith area, is now

1170
01:39:01.239 --> 01:39:08.720
coming back to us after these new
discoveries, of these new scientific tests,

1171
01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:15.720
that is significantly old and that these
people were very, very sophisticated. We

1172
01:39:15.760 --> 01:39:19.600
don't know if it's homo sapien sapien. We don't know if it's neandertoal or

1173
01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:28.399
definite dignificent. We have no clue
because there's no skeletal remains, but these

1174
01:39:28.560 --> 01:39:31.319
dolmen, these standing stones, this
new wall, well it's not new,

1175
01:39:31.319 --> 01:39:39.439
it's thousands of years old, is
proof that there were dominins in North America.

1176
01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:46.439
And so to me, it begins
showing us that North America has its

1177
01:39:46.439 --> 01:39:54.319
own unknown history. I mean,
we know about American Stonehenge, which is

1178
01:39:54.359 --> 01:39:59.760
a unique place on the Eastern Core
coast, which is fascinating. But when

1179
01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:02.960
you look at the megalists of this
wall, like I said, some of

1180
01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:08.840
the stones are one hundred tons,
How and the hell did they put those

1181
01:40:08.840 --> 01:40:14.720
together? How do they move this? It's it's a fascinating uh site,

1182
01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:20.720
and it actually begins validating that human
occupation was in North America significantly earlier than

1183
01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:26.439
we ever thought. Yeah, well, so you know, Cliff, when

1184
01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:30.720
you sent this to me, that
first thing that occurred to me were the

1185
01:40:30.720 --> 01:40:34.880
the megalists and Shoria and I think
they're in Russia, maybe Siberia. I

1186
01:40:35.279 --> 01:40:39.359
was going to ask you about that, Jen, That's that's what reminded me

1187
01:40:39.399 --> 01:40:42.319
off too. Yeah. Well,
a lot of a lot of that Shori

1188
01:40:42.479 --> 01:40:45.520
is written off, unfortunately by geologists, and this is what really drives me

1189
01:40:45.560 --> 01:40:49.600
off. They won't go to the
place now, they won't go to uh

1190
01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:54.760
to Montana. They'll just look at
a photograph and say, yeah, that's

1191
01:40:54.920 --> 01:41:00.159
natural. And it's just a challenge
to work with that whole mindset. It's

1192
01:41:00.239 --> 01:41:03.680
like they write it off before they
even get there. So yeah, I

1193
01:41:03.680 --> 01:41:09.600
mean, I'm going to be honest. I thought it was compelling. The

1194
01:41:09.600 --> 01:41:16.119
the like the patina or the the
external There was like a I don't even

1195
01:41:16.119 --> 01:41:18.920
know what you call it, but
you can see it cracking off. Yeah,

1196
01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:24.119
the layer falling off. And it
wasn't part of the original stone because

1197
01:41:24.159 --> 01:41:29.520
that's all grantitede and it's from the
Battelis in that particular region. So you

1198
01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:32.640
know, there are some things that
we can draw from its geologic composition that

1199
01:41:32.680 --> 01:41:39.640
we can know about it, and
those formations are very problematic just based on

1200
01:41:39.720 --> 01:41:43.199
that. But from what I saw
from what you sent me, there were

1201
01:41:43.319 --> 01:41:46.000
like knobs on some There was a
knob a couple knobs on one of the

1202
01:41:46.039 --> 01:41:51.960
dolmen, and it had a resonant
frequency when you touched on when you knocked

1203
01:41:51.960 --> 01:41:58.039
on it, it actually rang like
a bell or had some sort of you

1204
01:41:58.079 --> 01:42:00.720
know, it was it was resonating
in some way. I think that those

1205
01:42:00.720 --> 01:42:06.880
are things that you can't really contextualize
when you don't have the full picture.

1206
01:42:06.920 --> 01:42:12.520
But I did see those knobs that
looked like they had clearly been created by

1207
01:42:12.560 --> 01:42:15.359
somebody. I mean, there was
something going on there on top of that.

1208
01:42:15.920 --> 01:42:19.520
I don't know, was it like
a It wasn't concrete, but it

1209
01:42:19.560 --> 01:42:24.119
was flaking off and breaking off of
the rock in a way that didn't make

1210
01:42:24.159 --> 01:42:27.920
a lot of sense to me based
on it being a granitic outcrop. It's

1211
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:33.159
like some of the stonework has been
sprayed with some form of sealant is what

1212
01:42:33.199 --> 01:42:38.199
the guess is, but no one
really knows. And it's not just on

1213
01:42:38.439 --> 01:42:43.920
the Sage Wall. It's on a
number of important civic areas. When I

1214
01:42:43.920 --> 01:42:48.800
say civic areas, these are centers
where there are standing stones that appear to

1215
01:42:48.840 --> 01:42:57.239
be pointing to celestial objects or could
be constellations, we don't know. The

1216
01:42:57.319 --> 01:43:01.760
other thing that I found was fascinating
is that there are dolmen everywhere, and

1217
01:43:01.800 --> 01:43:09.880
the geologists tend to say this is
the work of slow moving ice forms that

1218
01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:15.439
were dragging boulders. But you don't
lay a fifty ton stone on top on

1219
01:43:15.520 --> 01:43:24.439
two elongated stones perfectly and then have
the base supported by other stones. It's

1220
01:43:24.479 --> 01:43:28.560
like, no, no, no, that's not that's not a glacier movement.

1221
01:43:28.640 --> 01:43:32.600
That is this work of a human
being. So it's it's still in

1222
01:43:32.640 --> 01:43:39.079
its infancy in terms of discovery,
but this new series of scans has really

1223
01:43:39.119 --> 01:43:46.199
opened the door to and understand these
are these are intelligently designed areas. Cliff,

1224
01:43:46.319 --> 01:43:50.760
A number of years ago, you
remember when Graham Hancock's book America Before

1225
01:43:51.039 --> 01:43:56.279
came Yeah, yeah, Well,
just after that book came out, I

1226
01:43:56.439 --> 01:44:00.079
was I had taken off on a
little extra bloration trip of my own.

1227
01:44:00.079 --> 01:44:04.079
I was looking at mound cultures up
and down the Mississippi River. I had

1228
01:44:04.079 --> 01:44:10.239
to go down to this one particular
mound down in Louisiana where the whole thing

1229
01:44:10.600 --> 01:44:15.319
theoretically began. And I got in
their first thing in the morning. I

1230
01:44:15.359 --> 01:44:20.359
was the only one in the museum
and talking to the docent who was there

1231
01:44:20.359 --> 01:44:24.319
with me, and he came over
and said, do you have any questions?

1232
01:44:24.880 --> 01:44:27.920
And you know, I didn't want
to question anything too much, but

1233
01:44:27.960 --> 01:44:30.439
I just wanted to make conversations.
So I said, boy, you must

1234
01:44:30.439 --> 01:44:33.600
be getting a lot of people in
here now since Cliff, since Graham Hancock's

1235
01:44:33.600 --> 01:44:38.079
book just came out, you know, Questioning Dates, and I mean in

1236
01:44:38.119 --> 01:44:43.359
that book he pushed America history back
what one hundred and twenty five one hundred,

1237
01:44:44.199 --> 01:44:46.319
one hundred and thirty thousand years And
I said, so, you must

1238
01:44:46.359 --> 01:44:49.079
have a lot of people coming in
and he said, well, if they

1239
01:44:49.119 --> 01:44:54.159
do, they certainly know better than
to talk about American history being more than

1240
01:44:54.159 --> 01:44:58.520
sixteen thousand years old. And I
said, well, why would you say

1241
01:44:58.560 --> 01:45:01.920
that? And he gave me this
scientific answer why American history is only sixteen

1242
01:45:01.960 --> 01:45:06.720
thousand years old? And that scientific
explanation was because Graham Hancock is an idiot.

1243
01:45:08.359 --> 01:45:13.039
He's so mad, that's what he
said. That was wow. I

1244
01:45:13.119 --> 01:45:15.000
mean, it's at some point we
have to get bast this antiquated notion of

1245
01:45:15.039 --> 01:45:20.680
like a bearing straight being the only
form of migration, especially with the idea

1246
01:45:20.720 --> 01:45:27.000
that early civilizations that predate the Polynesians
were already seafaring and understood that. And

1247
01:45:27.039 --> 01:45:30.159
we see direct correlations with like,
for instance, the Olmec of levent To,

1248
01:45:30.279 --> 01:45:34.439
Mexico, with facial features being clearly
African. So we have to open

1249
01:45:34.520 --> 01:45:40.439
up our ideas to migration roots being
not only much more ancient, but also

1250
01:45:40.479 --> 01:45:44.760
coming from a lot of different places
that we're not considering right now living on

1251
01:45:44.800 --> 01:45:48.359
the East coast. You know,
when the person who heads up the Smithsonian

1252
01:45:48.359 --> 01:45:53.920
Institute starts talking about across and across
Arctic ice, you know, and the

1253
01:45:53.920 --> 01:46:00.720
possibilities of of you know, where
I am right now and up north where

1254
01:46:00.720 --> 01:46:04.439
I was in New England actually being
settled by you know, people from the

1255
01:46:04.479 --> 01:46:06.880
Solutionian culture and all this kind of
thing. You just got to look at

1256
01:46:06.920 --> 01:46:13.880
all this and say, wow,
there's I think we're just beginning to understand.

1257
01:46:14.359 --> 01:46:16.119
I think Jen was absolutely right way
back an hour and a half or

1258
01:46:16.159 --> 01:46:18.840
an no, how and a half
ago when she said we're just beginning to

1259
01:46:18.960 --> 01:46:26.319
understand what's going on. Boy,
I'll tell you I'm I'll be following your

1260
01:46:26.359 --> 01:46:30.359
work, Jen, I really will, Jenny, I'm a fan. Yeah.

1261
01:46:30.680 --> 01:46:32.920
Hey, you guys, this has
been a great deal of fun.

1262
01:46:33.159 --> 01:46:40.640
It's been fun seeing you each and
getting your sense of excitement about your discoveries.

1263
01:46:40.960 --> 01:46:44.720
As we conclude, each one of
you just give me an idea of

1264
01:46:44.720 --> 01:46:48.239
what you're looking forward to in twenty
twenty four. Gen, there's so much,

1265
01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:51.279
you know. I'm in contact with
you a lot, so I kind

1266
01:46:51.279 --> 01:46:56.199
of know where your head's at But
what's exciting for twenty twenty four with you?

1267
01:46:57.640 --> 01:47:00.159
Well, I live in New England
and I'm new to New England,

1268
01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:09.199
and one of the big things for
me is I am into really evaluating the

1269
01:47:09.279 --> 01:47:15.000
stone structures all over New England.
I visited Iceland earlier this spring and investigated

1270
01:47:15.039 --> 01:47:19.880
a number of the rock structures in
Iceland and how they look very similar to

1271
01:47:19.920 --> 01:47:23.760
the work that we see here,
and not all of it, because a

1272
01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:27.600
lot of it is Abenaki and a
lot of it is early colonists. But

1273
01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:31.520
I do believe that there's a Nordic
component that exists here in New England as

1274
01:47:31.560 --> 01:47:34.319
well. J Jen, I have
to be in touch with you. I

1275
01:47:34.359 --> 01:47:41.920
used to live in Massachusetts and on
my property was one of those one of

1276
01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:49.560
those one of those one of those
so called those beehive huts supposedly supposed to

1277
01:47:49.600 --> 01:47:55.520
be storage roots, I mean roots
sellers in the middle of a swamp.

1278
01:47:56.279 --> 01:48:00.880
I never could quite get that.
I've spent hours meditated in those things.

1279
01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:06.479
That's fantastic. We we know both
of your brains. We know we know

1280
01:48:06.560 --> 01:48:11.439
that the Vikings and the Nordic cultures
made it. We have evidence of Oh

1281
01:48:11.520 --> 01:48:15.119
yeah, Newfoundland. We know they
made it to Newfoundland. Clearly they made

1282
01:48:15.159 --> 01:48:17.479
it to New England. Yeah,
that's just like the whole Columbus narrative has

1283
01:48:17.520 --> 01:48:21.800
to just kind of mean. Isn't
it weird that they I'm having a lot

1284
01:48:21.800 --> 01:48:27.760
of fun with Oak Island these days
too. Yeah. Yeah, Matt,

1285
01:48:28.039 --> 01:48:30.279
what's up for you twenty twenty four? What's on your mind? Well,

1286
01:48:30.319 --> 01:48:33.960
I mean, obviously we know it's
You're spending a great deal of energy to

1287
01:48:34.000 --> 01:48:38.399
go back to Turkey. So yeah, so my entire life is going to

1288
01:48:38.399 --> 01:48:42.199
be based on these these discoveries.
I'm writing a new book that's going to

1289
01:48:42.199 --> 01:48:45.520
be based on it, called The
Missing Link of History, right Lost air

1290
01:48:45.600 --> 01:48:48.319
Ra Civilization. And of course we
had this whole film that we're going with

1291
01:48:48.319 --> 01:48:54.359
a whole crew over there to document
and do all this and that that pre

1292
01:48:54.479 --> 01:48:58.119
survey scouting trip and maybe going in
less than two months, so I'm going

1293
01:48:58.159 --> 01:49:00.520
to be going this may be happening
very quick. But that is going to

1294
01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:06.079
be followed up with multiple Turkey trips, Bolivia, Peru possibly Peru, and

1295
01:49:06.119 --> 01:49:10.560
then Egypt in October. So there's
a lot of a lot of cool new

1296
01:49:10.600 --> 01:49:14.760
trips coming up in the match you're
very exciting, Matt. I envy you.

1297
01:49:14.960 --> 01:49:18.680
A couple of years ago, Andrew
Collins was scheduled to lead a trip

1298
01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:24.319
to western Turkey and go Beckley Tepee
is how you know all that? And

1299
01:49:24.560 --> 01:49:27.399
he got in trouble with the government
over there and couldn't go, so he

1300
01:49:28.359 --> 01:49:30.199
asked me to head it up.
Oh man, I couldn't wait. I

1301
01:49:30.239 --> 01:49:33.159
was going to go to Turkey and
then came COVID and I never had a

1302
01:49:33.279 --> 01:49:39.680
chance to go. Oh I really, I really envy you. You know,

1303
01:49:39.760 --> 01:49:42.640
let us let us know how things
go over there. It's wonderful.

1304
01:49:42.880 --> 01:49:45.359
Yeah, we're gonna have Jim excuse
me, we're gonna have Matt on in

1305
01:49:45.359 --> 01:49:48.479
a couple of weeks. So we'll
do a drill down on specifics and I'll

1306
01:49:48.479 --> 01:49:51.840
send you guys the details. Okay, Jim, how about you? What

1307
01:49:51.840 --> 01:49:56.439
are you looking for in twenty twenty
four? What's exciting? I am?

1308
01:49:56.520 --> 01:50:00.000
Then you're writing constantly, so I'm
sure you have a whole bunch of yeah

1309
01:50:00.239 --> 01:50:05.199
time that you could am an incurable
romantic And I am hoping that our generation,

1310
01:50:05.399 --> 01:50:10.560
our civilization, will come to the
point where we look to this guys

1311
01:50:10.760 --> 01:50:15.199
and contemplate infinity and eternity and find
new ways of looking at our lives from

1312
01:50:15.239 --> 01:50:19.760
a spiritual component rather than just a
material component. I'm hoping that that happens

1313
01:50:19.760 --> 01:50:25.960
this year. Wow, Kim,
you're very moving. I feel like you're

1314
01:50:26.039 --> 01:50:31.119
very wise, my friend inspired.
I mean, thank you. Yeah,

1315
01:50:30.640 --> 01:50:34.079
this has been great being with you
all. I'll tell you, I just

1316
01:50:34.279 --> 01:50:38.760
really really enjoyed it. Thanks Jen, Thanks Matt. It's just and thank

1317
01:50:38.800 --> 01:50:41.239
you. Thank you Cliff for pulling
it together. It's great to have you

1318
01:50:41.279 --> 01:50:46.760
guys. Yeah, well listen,
hey, fantastic, wonderful group and inspiring

1319
01:50:47.239 --> 01:50:53.640
each one of you in your own
right. Let's hope that twenty twenty four

1320
01:50:54.039 --> 01:51:01.680
is a illustrious year's Unfortunately, it's
action year in the United States, and

1321
01:51:01.760 --> 01:51:06.000
as you all know, the country
is somewhat divided, and you can't help

1322
01:51:06.039 --> 01:51:11.119
but talk about it. But let's
hope things mellow out a little bit and

1323
01:51:11.520 --> 01:51:15.880
we can get back to enjoin the
United States. Because it's been a challenge.

1324
01:51:16.079 --> 01:51:19.880
It's been kind of a challenge the
last and the preacher says, amen

1325
01:51:19.960 --> 01:51:24.199
to that. I want to tell
you, I want to just like be

1326
01:51:24.319 --> 01:51:27.359
like Jim, just go in the
woods and have a clear, clear thought

1327
01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:31.520
process like that, Jim, That's
how I'm living too. I ran away

1328
01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:38.479
to Vermont two years ago. Oh
fantastic, fantastic. Did I ever get

1329
01:51:38.520 --> 01:51:40.800
up that way again? I'm gonna
have to visit your boat, that's for

1330
01:51:40.880 --> 01:51:44.960
sure. Right. I'm in Colorado
now, but I spent most of my

1331
01:51:45.000 --> 01:51:48.520
life in Hampshire, Maine. Oh
great, great, wow, Hey Jim,

1332
01:51:48.800 --> 01:51:53.399
Matt, Jim, fantastic. Happy
new Year to each of you,

1333
01:51:53.720 --> 01:51:57.640
and thanks for joining me. Thank
you, Happy new year. See you.

1334
01:52:02.920 --> 01:52:11.079
Fun to have friends describing what was
impactful for them. And obviously we

1335
01:52:11.319 --> 01:52:15.239
just scratched the surface. I mean, if you've been following the podcast throughout

1336
01:52:15.279 --> 01:52:24.760
the year, we've had quite a
few revelations about our past discoveries excavations,

1337
01:52:24.840 --> 01:52:30.880
and you know, when we get
doctor ed Barnhardt or Richard Hansen or any

1338
01:52:30.880 --> 01:52:38.640
of the other field archaeologists who are
actually making discoveries each year at the locations

1339
01:52:38.640 --> 01:52:45.359
they're excavating, those are also very
very important because it trickles down to the

1340
01:52:45.399 --> 01:52:49.000
history books. And this is the
big challenge we have today is a lot

1341
01:52:49.039 --> 01:52:55.680
of these newer discoveries and dates that
are pushing back our understanding of early man.

1342
01:52:56.479 --> 01:53:01.239
To know vastly older time periods.
It doesn't get into our history books

1343
01:53:01.239 --> 01:53:09.079
for sometimes a decade or more.
And that's kind of a challenge for me

1344
01:53:09.319 --> 01:53:15.680
because our kids are the next generation
isn't getting up to date data, And

1345
01:53:15.720 --> 01:53:18.119
you know, when you're in school, you're you're trying to get through your

1346
01:53:18.159 --> 01:53:24.560
classes, and the last thing on
your mind is researching the latest data.

1347
01:53:25.039 --> 01:53:28.920
And there's not a lot of time
to even listen to podcasts. And so

1348
01:53:29.800 --> 01:53:33.520
this is just a function of our
current society, is that we don't get

1349
01:53:33.560 --> 01:53:41.079
these new historical events, these new
discoveries out there unless you're looking at your

1350
01:53:41.560 --> 01:53:47.479
iPhone, your your your TV,
your internet on you on your computer and

1351
01:53:47.800 --> 01:53:51.800
seeing these things or have an interest. Now I have an interest in ancient

1352
01:53:51.840 --> 01:53:58.399
history, obviously I wouldn't have launched
this this podcast. And obviously and also

1353
01:53:58.439 --> 01:54:03.680
the people that were on this program
to they each have an interest in discoveries

1354
01:54:03.680 --> 01:54:08.520
of our past, and you can
hear it in their voice and their passion

1355
01:54:08.600 --> 01:54:15.239
and their enthusiasm for these new discoveries. So I don't know how to solve

1356
01:54:15.279 --> 01:54:21.800
the issue of delayed data being placed
in our history books, but that's just

1357
01:54:21.840 --> 01:54:30.079
the nature of our society, and
I think it's it's kind of fun and

1358
01:54:30.119 --> 01:54:33.640
it's a it is a plus to
have social media. And I will say

1359
01:54:33.680 --> 01:54:40.039
this, we do try to keep
up on data on our Facebook page and

1360
01:54:40.079 --> 01:54:44.640
we have I mean, I placed
articles there. Mary who runs our group

1361
01:54:44.720 --> 01:54:54.119
page Facebook, is constantly posting information
that is delivered by students, by individuals

1362
01:54:54.159 --> 01:54:59.840
who are interested in ancient history,
and a lot of it is single images

1363
01:55:00.039 --> 01:55:04.479
that are taken of recent discoveries in
excavations. But I gotta say this,

1364
01:55:04.680 --> 01:55:13.640
Mary is located in Portugal, and
so she is constantly collecting and dispersing and

1365
01:55:13.840 --> 01:55:21.479
editing a huge number of images of
articles and data from a very diverse collection

1366
01:55:21.560 --> 01:55:27.119
of individuals, and I got to
say that makes that site really really fun.

1367
01:55:27.439 --> 01:55:33.319
Now there's another Facebook page that is
the fan page that she also contributes

1368
01:55:33.359 --> 01:55:40.119
to, but it's more I would
call it more hardcore, and that is

1369
01:55:40.399 --> 01:55:45.760
it's about seventy thousand people and growing
who are contributing. Who I mean,

1370
01:55:45.800 --> 01:55:54.159
I will pay post articles and a
material there and people really respond nicely to

1371
01:55:54.880 --> 01:56:00.520
those postings. I want to say
this too. We just celebrated seventy thousand

1372
01:56:00.039 --> 01:56:09.479
fans or they call them likes on
Facebook group page and that is a worldwide

1373
01:56:09.520 --> 01:56:16.880
audience, and not everybody speaks good
English. But it's fun because everybody kind

1374
01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:23.680
of dialed into what happened in the
past, What is our history? What

1375
01:56:24.079 --> 01:56:30.880
are the historians telling us about our
past? And what can we deem as

1376
01:56:32.159 --> 01:56:41.119
accurate? And what I mean by
that is, although we have credentialed academics,

1377
01:56:41.920 --> 01:56:46.399
archaeologists, anthropologists, egyptologists in the
other fields, a lot of this

1378
01:56:46.680 --> 01:56:53.159
data is guesswork. We guess that
the pharaoh did this. We guess that

1379
01:56:53.319 --> 01:56:57.439
we have a few fragments of a
dialogue, we have a few fragments of

1380
01:56:57.800 --> 01:57:04.000
a ruling or a law, we
have a few fragments of a of a

1381
01:57:04.039 --> 01:57:10.439
written by these ancient people. But
our history, our understanding of the ancients,

1382
01:57:10.560 --> 01:57:16.119
is guesswork. We approximate data,
and so that's something that we need

1383
01:57:16.159 --> 01:57:24.560
to understand. And it's hard for
our historians to give that up and say,

1384
01:57:24.640 --> 01:57:29.159
yes, we are guessing at this, you know, rather than saying

1385
01:57:29.279 --> 01:57:34.479
we have hard evidence that this is
what happened. The percentage of our history

1386
01:57:34.520 --> 01:57:41.079
that is hard evidence is small.
It really is small. And when you

1387
01:57:41.119 --> 01:57:45.520
get into periods that are over a
thousand years old, unless it's been written

1388
01:57:45.560 --> 01:57:51.239
down about you know, an event
or a period of time, or a

1389
01:57:51.359 --> 01:57:59.720
king or pharaoh's decree. It's guesswork. And I really wish that more academics

1390
01:57:59.720 --> 01:58:02.680
would admit that you know. And
I have to say this about doctor Ed

1391
01:58:02.760 --> 01:58:11.720
Barnhardt. He will flat out say
this, and that is so refreshing for

1392
01:58:11.840 --> 01:58:17.439
him to tell us that we only
have one percent or less of known Mayan

1393
01:58:18.039 --> 01:58:24.239
data, which is combined in the
thirty known cities that we have uncovered and

1394
01:58:24.279 --> 01:58:31.039
excavated. That's revelatory. That is
hard fact, and that is refreshing.

1395
01:58:32.640 --> 01:58:38.359
If you don't know something, don't
say it's the hard evidence. Say this

1396
01:58:38.439 --> 01:58:43.399
is what we believe, and a
lot of data is presented in that manner.

1397
01:58:43.479 --> 01:58:47.479
We believe this to be true.
We believe this to be the way

1398
01:58:47.600 --> 01:58:53.640
that this society was developed. So
anyhow, that's my two cents on that.

1399
01:58:54.359 --> 01:59:02.079
Thank you each and all my panelists, Gendeo Lacroix and Jim Willis.

1400
01:59:02.199 --> 01:59:10.760
That was fun. Each of you
had a wonderful material to present, and

1401
01:59:10.800 --> 01:59:14.880
I hope you'll keep listening to Earth
Ancients. We have a hell of a

1402
01:59:14.960 --> 01:59:18.960
year coming up in twenty twenty four. Lots of new information is coming to

1403
01:59:19.039 --> 01:59:28.399
light, a lot of people that
are not necessarily academics are taking the banner

1404
01:59:28.520 --> 01:59:36.479
and walking into unknown, uncharted histories
and giving us their impressions. And this

1405
01:59:36.560 --> 01:59:44.039
is wonderful. There's a whole new
narrative that is coming out from other perspectives.

1406
01:59:44.600 --> 01:59:48.239
And some of these people that we
will talk about next year are scientists,

1407
01:59:48.439 --> 01:59:53.439
are experts, but they're from different
fields. And I have to say

1408
01:59:53.479 --> 02:00:00.840
this that when you look at history
from a multidisciplinary approach, you get wonderful,

1409
02:00:00.239 --> 02:00:08.399
wonderful narratives. You get wonderful,
wonderful points of view that are not

1410
02:00:08.520 --> 02:00:17.319
necessarily from specific fields Mayanist, Egyptologists, and other so called specialties. This

1411
02:00:17.399 --> 02:00:23.079
is what I love about Earth Ancients
is that we can reach out and touch

1412
02:00:23.800 --> 02:00:30.239
the ancient past through the lens of
other experts, other scientists, other points

1413
02:00:30.239 --> 02:00:36.720
of view that reflect on their expertise, not necessarily academic. So look forward

1414
02:00:36.760 --> 02:00:43.359
to that in twenty twenty four.
I want to mention as we conclude our

1415
02:00:43.479 --> 02:00:50.960
program that Earth Ancients is also presenting
tours each year, and we have three

1416
02:00:51.039 --> 02:00:59.479
tours to talk about. We have
Egypt in April April twenty eight through May

1417
02:00:59.640 --> 02:01:02.520
ninth. We have Turkey for the
first time we're going to be in Turkey

1418
02:01:03.239 --> 02:01:06.520
and that's August fourteenth and twenty fourth, and then we're going to be in

1419
02:01:06.640 --> 02:01:15.159
Mexico early November. We're still working
on our itinerary. It's the second week

1420
02:01:15.359 --> 02:01:19.079
of November. I'll give you those
dates shortly. But if you're interested in

1421
02:01:19.199 --> 02:01:25.720
touring with us, consider it.
We work our best to give you a

1422
02:01:25.760 --> 02:01:30.840
reasonable price for a lot of experience
and that's really really fun. For the

1423
02:01:30.880 --> 02:01:35.680
full itinerary on all of these tours, go to Earthancients dot com, forward

1424
02:01:35.880 --> 02:01:42.880
slash tours to O U R s
and you'll see the full einerary on all

1425
02:01:42.920 --> 02:01:53.199
these tours. Consider these tours a
invitation from me to you to come out

1426
02:01:53.560 --> 02:02:00.159
enjoy, be treated like royalty.
We call them diplomatic tours because you get

1427
02:02:00.199 --> 02:02:01.880
the cream of the crop and you
get to see a lot of these places

1428
02:02:01.960 --> 02:02:06.439
without the intrusion of the general public. Work hard to do that as well,

1429
02:02:08.680 --> 02:02:11.760
But come out and join me.
I would love to meet you and

1430
02:02:12.720 --> 02:02:17.720
spend some time and walk with you
among these ancient sites that are groundbreaking,

1431
02:02:17.800 --> 02:02:26.000
that are life changing, that are
just wonderful to experience. So consider that.

1432
02:02:26.039 --> 02:02:30.279
For twenty twenty four, Earthancients dot
com Forward slash Tours. I'm also

1433
02:02:30.319 --> 02:02:35.239
going to provide you with my email
address. It's Earth Ancients, the number

1434
02:02:35.239 --> 02:02:43.399
four the letter you at gmail dot
com. If you have specific questions,

1435
02:02:43.439 --> 02:02:45.479
if you have somebody you think would
be great on the program, send me

1436
02:02:45.520 --> 02:02:48.439
an email. Let me know and
say, Hey, Cliff, I've been

1437
02:02:48.479 --> 02:02:51.920
reading about this person, or I
heard a lecture from this person. I

1438
02:02:51.960 --> 02:02:57.119
think he'd be a fun interview.
Send it to me. I'm always open

1439
02:02:57.159 --> 02:03:02.920
to new individuals for our programs.
With that, I will say, Happy

1440
02:03:02.960 --> 02:03:12.159
New Year, Let's look forward to
a new and lively twenty twenty four and

1441
02:03:13.399 --> 02:03:16.840
my best to you and your family, and we'll see you next year.

1442
02:03:18.000 --> 02:03:19.239
So happy New Year to you,