WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:08.400 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Being Frank. 2 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:15.919 We're the only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to 3 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:19.760 Being Frank. We're the only way to be Is Frank. I'm your host, 4 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:22.879 Frank L. Buono, and we'd like to thank you for joining us 5 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:28.320 here on the Intelligent Conversation podcast. We know that your time is valuable and 6 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:33.000 competition, quite frankly, is fierce, but we like to think of ourselves 7 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:37.439 as an alternative to all that noise, so we really appreciate you sharing some 8 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:42.399 of your day with Being Frank. We stream from Hudson River Radio dot com. 9 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:45.960 We're the mailman. Mister Neil Richter is our engineer, of course I 10 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:51.119 call him that because he always delivered, and Hudson River Radio dot com is 11 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:57.719 our homebase. But remember you can download us wherever and whenever you listen to 12 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:03.560 your favorite podcasts. That an includes iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, Spreaker and 13 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:08.000 all the others. You can find the links on our Being Facebook page, 14 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:14.239 and please think about becoming a subscriber and leaving us a comment too. As 15 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:18.319 I mentioned, we have our own Facebook page Being Frank. Of course it's 16 00:01:18.359 --> 00:01:22.280 public, so check it out and follow the page for more information about the 17 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:27.319 podcast. We bring our audience a new topical program every week, beginning on 18 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:34.159 Fridays. Listen at your convenience, and remember every program is archived, so 19 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.640 you can listen to any being Frank virtually any time that you want. It's 20 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.640 the intelligent thing to do. Okay. If you live in the Greater New 21 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:48.280 York metropolitan area, as I do, or any other major American city for 22 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:53.879 that matter, you probably know someone of Sicilian ancestry, someone like me perhaps, 23 00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:00.000 And despite its relatively small size it's only one fourth the size of Cuba. 24 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:05.920 Most people know at least something about the island itself, or at least 25 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:09.280 they think they do. But there's so much more to learn about this ancient, 26 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:15.919 challenging, historic, breathtakingly beautiful place and the people that make up it's 27 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:22.599 incredibly diverse, end unique culture. The German philosopher Guerta said this about the 28 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:28.639 island. To have seen Italy without having seen Sicily is not to have seen 29 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:32.800 Italy at all. For Sicily is the key to everything. There is so 30 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:38.919 much more that I need to do to know, even as a Sicilian American. 31 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:44.240 While we have the perfect Manx to educate us. Excuse me, yes, 32 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:51.039 we do. Gaetano Chipola is Professor Emeritus at Saint John's University and is 33 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:55.400 one of the foremost authorities on Sicilian culture. He is president and editor of 34 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:01.599 Aruba Sekula, an Italian edition of his Learned Sicilian. And forgive me for 35 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:06.240 some of the pronunciations, and I'm sure the Professor will correct me soon enough 36 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:14.680 when we finish with the introduction. Mapatomulu Sicilianu was published in Palermo. The 37 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:20.719 success of the first textbook encouraged him to write a more advanced textbook, Learned 38 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:29.319 Sicilian to written in Sicilian. His Siciliana Studies on the Sicilian Ethos contains many 39 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:35.080 of his essays on Sicilian culture, including what makes a Sicilian. As a 40 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:40.439 translator of Sicilian poetry, he has published more than a dozen bilingual volumes. 41 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:47.800 He is also editor of Legas Maniola. Professor un. Chipola has received many 42 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:55.400 prizes, including the Telemone Prize from Agrigento, the Pa de Pina door Gento, 43 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:04.280 the Prosperina Prize, and Sister Lee's Ambascia Torri Sichiliana Nelmundo. Recently, 44 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:09.800 his publishing house Legas, which has published more than one hundred and fifty volumes, 45 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:17.639 mostly on Sicilian culture, won the prestigious Premio Nazionale pie for twenty twenty 46 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:24.879 two from the Italian Ministry of Cultural Heritage, given to publishers and translators who 47 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:30.120 have promoted Italian culture in the world. Piacere, professor, welcome. Well, 48 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.519 it's my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me, and forgive me for 49 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:39.879 massacring. As you can tell, I need to brush up on my Italian 50 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:44.120 a bit, but interestingly and be part of our conversation. As is, 51 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.120 as our culture seems to move more towards Spanish, is very commonly heard, 52 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:51.399 Italian not so much. And true Sicilian, which we're going to talk about 53 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:55.199 in a bit. You don't hear at all, certainly in the States and 54 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:59.040 hardly even in Italy, but we'll talk about that. Well, I don't 55 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:01.759 know about that. There are as I don't know if you know, but 56 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:10.079 there are maybe forty forty percent of Italian Americans are of Sicilian origin. Wow, 57 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:13.680 it's so interesting for I did not know that. But also as you 58 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:17.680 saw my leading, I mean it's popular there obviously. I'm Sicilian, my 59 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:21.120 whole family, my brothers, and sisters, and many of my friends are 60 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:27.399 as well. And it seems the diaspora, the Sicilian diaspora, is pretty 61 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:31.079 vast in general, particularly large. Of course, it's quite large. You 62 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:39.079 would find Sicilians everywhere in places that you probably don't even know exists. For 63 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:49.319 example, Ebor City. Have you ever heard of Ebor y inhabited by lots 64 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:56.199 of Sicilians who worked on cigar factories together with the Cuban. Wow, I 65 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.680 didn't know that. I didn't know that. But I'm learning all kinds of 66 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:05.560 things in this work. I'm learning that Sicilians were basically everywhere in this country. 67 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:20.000 And my organization Abasicula Sula Sulach literally means Sicilian Dawn, has about fifteen 68 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:28.000 hundred members throughout the whole world, and we have at least one member in 69 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:33.279 every state of the Union, even in Alaska and in Hawaii. One time 70 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:39.319 I went to actually I was invited for a seminar, a weekly seminar at 71 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:45.120 the University of Hawaii, and there were three Sicilians waiting for me at the 72 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:50.800 airport. That's incredible. Well, so let's get started. Let's go to 73 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:56.759 the beginning first. I think it's important. I think most people know Sicily 74 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.920 is in Ireland. I think most people are familiar that it's pretty much centrally 75 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.079 located in the Mediterranean. But tell us a little bit more, if you 76 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:10.360 will, professor, about the topography of Sicily. What is it like? 77 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:14.000 Is it a desert island? It is a tropical island? Is it what's 78 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:17.040 the climate like? It's also a little bit about the physical nature of systems. 79 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:23.160 Sicily is a beautiful island. It used to be a lot more beautiful 80 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:29.279 than it is now. It used to be covered with trees all over the 81 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:35.000 place. It was forested left and right, and it had navigable rivers. 82 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:42.079 If you go there today, you will find that maybe there's one river that 83 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.680 is still navigable, but all the others are sort of dried up. And 84 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:56.560 the reason for that is because when the Romans became well, Sicily was the 85 00:07:56.600 --> 00:08:01.439 first province of Rome. So when the Romans came and they after the Puric 86 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:07.800 Wars, they cut down all the trees of Sicily. And if you go 87 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:13.439 in the middle of the island, you will find that all the trees have 88 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:20.120 been replaced by empty spaces where they can actually grow the wheat. Because Rome 89 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:26.160 needed a wheat to feed their armies, so that they planted wheat all over 90 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:33.600 the place and destroyed destroyed the climate in a way because the trees retain the 91 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.240 water. And therefore if you go in the middle of of the island around 92 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:43.919 and now or cat said and all the other central located, you will see 93 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:52.879 almost a lunar landscape without trees. Is it the homogeneous climate, professor? 94 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.399 Is it? Is it? It's known to be the climate. It's very 95 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:03.080 it's uh, it's it's for climate. We have lots of sun all over 96 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:09.960 the place. And the vegetation is absolutely gorgeous. Everywhere you go on the 97 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:15.480 east coast, all along the coast, it's very green. If you go 98 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.919 in the center, it becomes kind of a yellowish. However, the vegetation 99 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:28.600 is bro is wonderful, it is beautiful. Sicily is a very fertile land, 100 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:33.879 obviously because of Mount Etna, which provides most of the water for all 101 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:43.080 the eastern half half of Sicily, you know, is right on the oriental 102 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.360 side, on the on the eastern side, so that the vegetation is great 103 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:54.080 and the fertility is such that orange trees, lemon trees have to be stopped 104 00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:03.279 from producing. Uh. There because they if you let them alone without stopping 105 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:11.039 them, they produced lemons four times a year. That's absolutely true. So 106 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:16.679 beautiful island, it used to be known as the paradise. Sicily was more 107 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:24.320 like the paradise for all the people in the Mediterranean basin. The Greeks came 108 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:31.080 to Sicily in the eighth century before Christ and of course they had certain navigated 109 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:37.480 the island many any times until they finally decided that their land was not sufficient 110 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:41.960 for them, and then they moved and they came to Sicily, not as 111 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.720 a conqueror, but as colonizers. Well, they gave to stay. They 112 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:52.960 came to stay basically as immigrants. Well, not to not to interrupt you, 113 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.759 and we'll get there, but you mentioned and we spoke of the ancients 114 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.480 and truly ancient history. You talked about eight centuries BC, but there's even 115 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:07.480 a history before that. Who are the original Sicilians? Now I know there 116 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:13.919 are tribes, would you break the Stria? Who are the original Sicilians? 117 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:20.960 As far as we know, the Sicicii had been occupied for at least ten 118 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:26.159 thousand years, So we have remains archaeological remains in many caves. We have, 119 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:39.240 we have a cave dwellers. But basically we we the most important ones 120 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:46.720 are people called Sicani. We are we call them Cicicanians in English, who 121 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:56.879 came presumably from around Spain. Uh and the Siicani were people who lived mostly 122 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:05.440 around the mountains, and they were later not replaced but amalgamated with another group 123 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:18.600 of Indo European h people named seque Sequely is the one other ones who actually 124 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:24.879 gave the name Sichilia to Uh to Sicily, but we also Sicily is also 125 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:33.519 known as Sicania, Cicania, and c and Sichilia basically but so the the 126 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:39.360 Sequely were also people from the north, also into Europeans. Some people believe 127 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:46.120 that they were actually from around the northern area like Jailova and then perhaps uh 128 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:54.960 Latium region of Rome. Uh and presumably they spoke a kind of Latin based 129 00:12:54.360 --> 00:13:05.200 language. In any cases, the Sequely became more doneminent and they probably created 130 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:16.879 all kinds of different towns Uh and had difficulties with the coming Greeks. They 131 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:22.600 fought with Greeks several times. They revolted against the Greeks who came in the 132 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.720 eighth century UM. But basically we don't know what kind of language actually they 133 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:37.879 spoke, because very little UH is left of their permanence there as well as 134 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:43.120 for the Sickenians, we don't know. But we also had Alemiums over part 135 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:50.879 of the old older group of emigrants who came to Sicily, the Alemians who 136 00:13:50.960 --> 00:14:00.000 were the ones who actually founded Mount eddie Che western side near Palermo. Uh. 137 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:07.559 So Almians, Phoenicians, Phoenicians uh, then Greeks, the Greeks, 138 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:18.559 Romans. Why yeah, we have about eighteen different groups who came to Sicily 139 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:26.000 as about eighteen, well maybe more because some people did not leave much of 140 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:30.799 a trace. However, the more the more important ones, if one I 141 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:39.879 can tell you, are basically the Greeks who came u in the eighth century, 142 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:43.519 starting on the eighth century. In fact, my hometown of Frank Cavillaio 143 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:52.399 is just a little about a little above Armena. We looked Armena as a 144 00:14:52.480 --> 00:15:00.960 town of Giardini, which today is known as Jiardini Naxos because Naxos was the 145 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.320 new name that they added to it, because that was the place where the 146 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:13.480 first colony from Greece UH landed in Naxos, Naxos, and it was right 147 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.159 there below Tarmina that was the first in seven hundred and thirty five BC. 148 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:28.480 And within twenty thirty years the people from various parts of Greece came to Sicily. 149 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:35.240 They originally had actually started up north the Iscia, that was probably the 150 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:43.519 first settlement, big settlement, but then they moved down, They moved down 151 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:50.440 to Sicily and they founded basically all along the eastern coast of Sicily. They 152 00:15:50.440 --> 00:16:00.360 founded Messina, Catania, Lentini, Syracusa, then down below Jaila, and 153 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:04.519 then about a hundred years after the first settlement, some of the people who 154 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.480 are ready there, like from Jaila and from other places, they moved. 155 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:18.240 They moved inland a little bit or westward and they founded Agrigento, basically Siracusa 156 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:25.559 and Agrigento became the most important cities, not only of Sicily, but of 157 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:33.200 all the Mediterranean. The Syracusa became so powerful that in fact they defeated the 158 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:44.240 Athenians at one point, so they were masters of the island. They and 159 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:51.080 they they created their own Greek culture. A lot of the words you when 160 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:56.000 you think of Sicily, and when you think of people like Archimedes or Archimede, 161 00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.639 as we said Archimedies, most people in America we say, oh he's 162 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:07.640 Greek, He's not Greek Sicilian. He was born, he died at Sakusa. 163 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:14.480 So that basically I wrote an article which is part of my Siciliana on 164 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.839 based on one thing because on the on the premise and the prejudice that most 165 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:27.720 people think that culture always moved from Greece towards Sicily and not the way around. 166 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:36.079 In fact, that is not true because many Sicilians, many of the 167 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:44.000 Sicilians actually traveled back to Greece and taught the Greeks public speaking. For example, 168 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.039 Gorgeous of Lentini. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, 169 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:52.160 probably not. Gorgeous of Lentini was a man who was skilled in public speaking, 170 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:59.799 and he traveled to Athens to teach the Athenians how to speak in public. 171 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.759 Uh, we have all kinds of things, all kinds of people. 172 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.920 Um, oh, profess and again and forgive me because again it's so, 173 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.559 it's so complex and long and ancient, certainly, and you were prepared to 174 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.240 do it well, and you know what's what you do to literally lect your 175 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:25.079 hours on the history. But again just to keep it moving along. So 176 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:29.079 so we have the Greeks. A period of the Greeks who's next, because 177 00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.720 you mentioned at one point eighteen. But the more important ones, the ones, 178 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:41.920 the ones who were more influential in creating Mississilian ethols, if you like, 179 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:47.000 they were there, because they were there not only at the beginning from 180 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:53.319 the eighth century for Christ until until let's say, the Vanduls came in Sicily 181 00:18:53.559 --> 00:19:02.839 in the fifth century. After Christ uh and uh than the Greeks returned basically 182 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:10.480 when the Byzantine Empire took over Sicily. So the Eastern the Eastern Roman Empire, 183 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:18.480 which was based in Byzantium or Constantinople, basically then had as a Syracuse 184 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.880 as a capital of it. So Syracuse was the capital of the Eastern Empire. 185 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:30.039 And so the Greeks came back after in the fifth fifth century through the 186 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:40.160 Byzantines, and after the Byzantine were defeated basically by another group of people who 187 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:45.559 came to Sicily, the Arabs. The Arabs arrived in a twenty seven uh 188 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:56.119 in Mazar and they took over the island very slowly. It took them a 189 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:03.200 long time to conquer the whole island, but from a twenty seven it took 190 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:10.799 them, let's say, until nine hundred and fifty one or fifty three to 191 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.960 conquer all of Sicily, So it took them over a hundred years. But 192 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:21.119 in Okay they came, and again they were not just conquerors. They were 193 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:26.039 there because they wanted to be there, and Sicily represented for them a kind 194 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:33.720 of a paradise. And they improved. They improved sicily in the irrigation system, 195 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:42.759 they improved sicily in every important different types of produce, oranges and all 196 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:48.400 kinds of silk, all kinds of different things were introduced by the Arabs, 197 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:53.400 and also all kinds of learning because the Arabs in the ninth century, in 198 00:20:53.440 --> 00:21:00.400 the ninth century were among the most educated people in the military Union, and 199 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:07.680 so most of the great inventions uh that the Arabs have given to the world 200 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:15.880 came to Europe through Sicily. So Sicily was the conduit, basically together with 201 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.680 Spain, because the Arabs also went to Spain on around the same time. 202 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:30.519 So, but they they were very influential for philosophy. They translated weak test 203 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:40.480 into Latin, Arabic tests into Latin also, so basically they were very influential, 204 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:47.039 and they lasted until nine hundred and sixty one, basically nine hundred and 205 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:53.519 sixty one when they were actually replaced by the Normans. It's gonna say that 206 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.720 people that are really the Normans were in Sicily as well too. Oh yes, 207 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.000 ye Normans. The Normans only were they in Sicily, but they were 208 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:10.759 They created basically the first modern state. They were the first. They created 209 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.759 the first modern stage, in which the king assemble all the powers within his 210 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:22.000 hands and controls basically everything. So but they were they were very good people 211 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:29.799 in the sense that they allowed other people to live their own lives without imposing 212 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.279 their will, so that they each of the kings, each of the Norman 213 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:41.480 kings was known also by an Arabic name, so that they did not chastise 214 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.839 the Arabs. They did not chase them away, except perhaps at the end 215 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:53.240 Frederick the second exiled them to Chada in Calabria, But that's that's after this, 216 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:59.440 at the end, twelve hundred and forty, twelve hundred and forty. 217 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:06.160 So they, the Normans, created a whole new state, a whole new 218 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:11.559 state, a whole new way of governing. In fact, you always think 219 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:18.680 of having, for example, the first Parliament, the first Parliament, the 220 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:25.319 British like to take pride in the idea that they created the first parliament. 221 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:29.319 But if you go to Sicily, and if you go to the Palace of 222 00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:33.000 the Normans or the royal Palace of the Normans, and you see the Sicilian 223 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:38.839 Parliament, you see two dates. One is on top of the seat where 224 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:45.240 the governor or the man in charge sit the president of the region. Basically 225 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:49.559 you see two dates. One is eleven thirty one and the other one is 226 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:56.960 nineteen forty seven. Eleven thirty one identifies the date of the first parliament that 227 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:04.359 was held in Sicily, first part moment which involved barons and also representations from 228 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.680 the from the communes, from the towns, and of course from the from 229 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:15.000 the royals. So those two days eleven thirty one to nineteen forty seven. 230 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:22.279 Nineteen forty seven is also an important date because it is the date when Sicily 231 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:29.119 was given a constitution of itself of its own, called the Special Statute, 232 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:36.799 which allows it to make laws about about what goes on on the island. 233 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.400 It is the first, It was the first the first region of Italy after 234 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:48.440 Italy became a republic. I don't know if you know much about after World 235 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:55.799 War two, before world War two, Sicily was a monarchy. After World 236 00:24:55.799 --> 00:25:03.160 War two, the monarchy was went into exile and it became a republic. 237 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:12.960 Sicily wanted to secede from Italy in nineteen forty. From nineteen even not doing 238 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:21.559 Fashionism, but after Fastiism, wanted to secede from from from Italy because people 239 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:30.359 were denying it their independence, and they formed actually had an army that would 240 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:37.880 try to fight with that in order to prevent Sicily from seceding from from the 241 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:44.720 Union of Italy from from Italy. Result, they granted it a special statute 242 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.599 and it was the first, the first statute that gave him the possibility to 243 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:55.559 make laws about school, about the climate, about whatever, everything, even 244 00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.279 though that let doesn't function very well today because the thing that happens in Italy 245 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:10.400 is is determined in Rome. But those two days are important. So let's 246 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:15.240 go back to a little bit. The Arabs through the thirteenth century went through 247 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:22.039 the Arabs, the Normans, excuse me, Themans, and then yes, 248 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:30.319 after the Normans, we had the Germans. The Germans Uh who married the 249 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:36.160 last person, the last one, the daughter of one of the Normans Uh 250 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:45.400 consense of a concern was the last Norman, and she was married off to 251 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:55.960 Henry the sixth of of Swabia Germans. Uh So the Germans came. But 252 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:06.160 Henry the sixth wasn't very liked. Um. It's because he basically took well, 253 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:11.240 well took most of the world that was there. And today, for 254 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:18.119 example, you find in the in the museums of Austria and in Vienna you 255 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:25.039 will find the mantle of his coronation, of Roger's coronation, a beautiful mantle 256 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:32.440 made for his coronation. You find it in in in the museum in Indianna. 257 00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:41.680 Why because when Concerts was given to uh Henry the Sick as a bride, 258 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:48.599 she brought like one hundred and fifty mules of treasure to from Sicily. 259 00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:56.720 From Sicily in any case, but the good thing about of Henry the sixth 260 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:04.440 is that he fathered Deric the second, and the second is probably the most 261 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:14.160 important or the greatest emperor that Sicily has ever had, because he was literally 262 00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:18.839 he was a man of genius. Basically he knew five or six languages. 263 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:25.839 He was born now in Sicily, he was born in Yazi. And because 264 00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:32.960 the mother was already in her forties and people you know, in the Middle 265 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.200 Ages, people did not live that long, and certainly women did not give 266 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:42.920 birth when they were forty years old. So basically to prove that it was 267 00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:49.880 that it was her child, she gave birth open in the open space in 268 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:59.039 Yaisy to show that Frederick second was a real child that she gave birth to. 269 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:10.720 Way Henry Frederick Sei became the Emperor of Sicily. He uh he had. 270 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:18.160 He was excommunicated a couple of times by the pope because he didn't he 271 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:23.319 didn't like the idea of doing who says, you know, because the pope 272 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:32.720 wanted him to go to Palestine and reclaim Christ's place. He didn't want to 273 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.960 do that. M So he was excommunicated a couple of times. And basically 274 00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:45.799 Frederick the second was an important person because he wanted to create a lay not 275 00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:52.160 religious. He wanted to create a different kind of culture for Sicily and for 276 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:57.400 his empire. Because he was h emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. He 277 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:04.920 was a descent like I descended of Charlemagne, so he was wanted to create 278 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:15.920 a lay lay government. He created the University of Naples in twelve to twenty 279 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:21.039 twelve twenty four, I believe, and he created that because he needed people 280 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.759 with skills for administering his dominions. So, in other words, school in 281 00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:33.839 those days, the university of those days were primarily interested in canon law and 282 00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:45.359 religious things. He wanted people to actually help him govern in a intelligent way 283 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.079 all of the lands that he possessed, and so he created the University of 284 00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:53.960 Naples. So now we're through Frederick where the Germans. After the Germans, 285 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.559 I know there are more. Wait, wait, wait, I want to 286 00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:03.880 tell you at least one thing about Frederick. The second he was, he 287 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:11.240 was the people who worked for him created what we call la scuola Siciliana, 288 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:21.559 and la Siciliana is the Sicilian school of poetry, which basically adapted all the 289 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:29.839 literature that was written in Provence and the provincial southern France. The provincial literature 290 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:38.680 was important into Sicily through Loscola Siciliana, which gave birth basically two Sicilian language 291 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:45.000 the Sicilian language, which was spoken in different ways, but Sicilian language became 292 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:53.759 the first Neo Latin language to be used for poetry in Italy. Sicilian. 293 00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:02.279 But when people tell you that Sicilian is a dialect, they mean that Sicilian 294 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.440 is a corruption of something. The Cicilian is not a corruption of Italian. 295 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:13.559 Sicilian is its own language, and that only is it their own language. 296 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:19.640 It's the first language used for poetry in Italy. Dante himself just just to 297 00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.480 give you that I'm not inventing the stuff. The stuff. Dante himself said 298 00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:29.359 that for the first one hundred and fifty years of Italian literature, whoever wrote 299 00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:37.680 this poetry wrote it Intoicilian, not even even those who were not Sicilian. 300 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.599 Because at the court of Frederick the Second he had people from different parts of 301 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:47.039 Italy, and so they actually wrote it Intoicilian, and in doing that they 302 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:54.519 created the canon of the Italian language, the canon which then moved up north. 303 00:32:54.920 --> 00:33:00.839 It moved up north after Frederic the Second in twelve fifth he died in 304 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:07.480 twelve fifty, and then it moved up to Florence, where Florence became more 305 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:15.319 important because of Dante Petrarch Boccaccio, who actually used Florentine. But the one 306 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:23.480 thing about Sicilian is that you know what happens when when somebody falls from grace, 307 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:31.119 when somebody's power is no longer able to be exercised, what happens to 308 00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:37.119 his influence? It dies, so that basically all the all the I'll give 309 00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.559 you one thing and then we can go on for everything. But all the 310 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:50.920 poetry written in Sicilian disappeared. In the original Sicilian disappeared, and it was 311 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:57.920 preserved in sort of a Florentine translation. So all that we have of the 312 00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:04.559 original Sicilian poetry was maybe one or two parts. All the others are basically 313 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:12.360 Florentine amanuensis. People who write from the copiers, people who copied the Sicilian 314 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:17.840 text didn't understand it or adapted it and change the endings and change words, 315 00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:23.639 substitute the other thing, and so that Sicilian was turned into a kind of 316 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:34.159 a big Florentine, so that we don't know what Sicilian language was exactly then, 317 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:40.280 because we have nothing left. But of course we can reconstruct. We 318 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.760 can reconstructed. In fact, I did one thing recently. I translated a 319 00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:51.079 few a few parts by the man who invented the sonor do you know who? 320 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:57.960 That was? Not Shakespeare, Not Shakespeare, although he sent many of 321 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.320 his plays in in in a couple in Sicily as well too, all those 322 00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:07.920 right, right, yeah, yes, but he didn't invent so Jacobo Dalentini 323 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:14.079 invented sonet. Okay, and it basically came it wasn't it comb belated? 324 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:19.960 And you know, the typical Italian Sicilian uh composition is made of eight lines 325 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.880 of poetry. When you add six more lines of poetry get a sonet. 326 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:30.719 So Jacobo Valentini invented the sonnet, Professor. I think it's a perfect segue 327 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:37.000 because one of the recurring themes that we're hearing here is the mixing, okay, 328 00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:40.599 from from different cultures that came not only as you said, not only 329 00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:46.440 culture, not only conquered, but assimilated. Um. So it begs the 330 00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:52.280 question, then what is and you mentioned the word ethos, what is the 331 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:57.039 Sicilian ethos? What is the Sicilian? Are they Italian? Are they their 332 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.920 own? Are they a hybrid? What would you day? Then? What 333 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:06.880 is the make up? What makes a Sicilian? Well, that is not 334 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:12.559 a very easy question to answer. And I sent you a copy of my 335 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.840 little book What makes a Sicilian? And I'm sure you read it. You 336 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:23.960 know that that is not a very easy thing. I cannot give you one 337 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:32.960 simple answer to the Sicilians are very complex people that whenever you think that you 338 00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:38.000 have found the key to understanding what they're made of, then something else comes 339 00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:47.280 up and the key doesn't work anymore. So basically Sicilians are have something that 340 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:54.119 they share with other Sicilians. Sicilian Sicilians, you can recognize Sicilian. In 341 00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:59.679 fact, there was some of the people who came to Sicily, like, 342 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:05.360 for example, uh, some French writers, for example, came to Sicily 343 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:12.280 and said, there is nothing more different from a Neopolsian than a Sicilian, 344 00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.440 because well, and you can see, you can see, you can see 345 00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:20.440 the way they do it. And then he goes on to do I actually 346 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:25.360 say, some of the things that make made it for him, made the 347 00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:30.719 distinction for him, in the sense that he said, when you cross the 348 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.360 strait of Messina, the first thing that you hear is a timber of the 349 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:43.480 of the voice, the kind of orientalized uh down an eastern field to it. 350 00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:50.000 Yes, particularly in the east. Absolutely. So basically Sicilians are very 351 00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:55.920 complex and very how would I say, very very difficult people to understand. 352 00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:01.199 However, you know, you know that they love certain things and they hate 353 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:05.800 other things. They love to they love their family. Their family is the 354 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:10.360 center of the universe. They love their mothers, mothers or the center of 355 00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:17.400 the universe. You know, you think of Sicily the patriarchal patriarchal society. 356 00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:30.239 But the but the father has what we say a typical Uh, the real 357 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:37.920 power is in a woman. Women are the ones who make the glue that 358 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:43.519 holds together families in Sicily, so that it's very important for and they are 359 00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:52.719 the ones who actually administer and create the kind of ethos where things you have 360 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:58.920 to observe certain rules and you have to behave in a certain way in order 361 00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:05.199 not to lose face. Sicilians do not like to uh make a bad showing 362 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:12.039 a thing. The term of fighting at la figura to show a good cud 363 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.000 of beautiful figure. Yes, it's good figure. It is a very important 364 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:20.599 thing. Wow. We have a saying that if you lose your reputation, 365 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:28.559 you're damned to hell. In effect, I have some quotes. Well you've 366 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:32.360 you've read somewhere, you know I have I have to excuse, just forgive 367 00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:35.280 me. I have to move it alhile, I'm kind of keeping my eye 368 00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:37.760 on the time. Um, and I'm going to take a quick break. 369 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.000 But when we come back and we're mentioning that as a Sicilian head, the 370 00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:47.800 ethos uh. And unfortunately in this country it's often stereotypical and not in a 371 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:53.800 complimentary sense. I think that the perpetuation of the image of the gangster, 372 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:57.920 of the mafia, et cetera. I want to talk a little bit about 373 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:04.760 how that seat its way into the Sicilian mindset and in particular what other people 374 00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:08.159 think of Sicilians and also sometimes and I don't know if you've experienced it, 375 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:12.000 but I would like to get your take on it. I have to honestly 376 00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:15.880 say, there have been times where I've noticed some bigotry, even from other 377 00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:21.320 Italians, your proximity to Africa, the fact that you've been conquered by arrows 378 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:24.800 this and that. I'll give you the opportunity to address that because I think 379 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:29.599 it's important. I've heard it, I've felt the sting, so I think 380 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.239 it's an honest question that we can have appreciate the Professor. We're going to 381 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:37.599 come back in just a minute where our show tonight is everything you thought about 382 00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:45.280 about Sicily and Sicilians. But we're afraid to ask your being Frank. We're 383 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:49.039 the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host. Frank Labono will 384 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:54.239 be right back after these brief commercial messages. Hudson River Radio dot Com bring 385 00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:59.119 a dash of green into your life. Check out The Many Shades of Green 386 00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:04.199 with Max Seen, Margot Reuben, and Malcolm Berman. Get informed about environmental 387 00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.599 issues and current events that affect us all. Pick a shade of green and 388 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:14.440 raise your eco consciousness with the Many Shades of Green. Available on Apple Podcasts, 389 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:22.280 iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts Hudson River Radio dot 390 00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:28.159 com. Be sure to check out Hudson River Radio's limited series podcast Live from 391 00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:32.800 Electric Lady Studios, featuring bands like Foreigner, George Thurgood and the Destroyers, 392 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:38.119 and Alice Cooper. Live from Electric Lady Studios was produced in the nineteen nineties 393 00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:45.159 by Electric Lady for WNWFM in New York City and was hosted by legendary DJ 394 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:49.719 Pat Saint John. It featured a different band each time and was recorded live 395 00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:54.280 with a small in studio audience. Check out Live from Electric Lady Studios on 396 00:41:54.440 --> 00:42:06.480 Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your guests Hudson River 397 00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:09.760 Radio dot com. Welcome back to Being Frank. We're the only way to 398 00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:15.440 be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebrono. It's the Intelligent Conversation 399 00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:20.960 podcast Remember we stream from Hudson River Radio dot com, but you can check 400 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:25.079 us also out wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and at any time you 401 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.920 choose to listen to it. Everything is archived so you can catch it at 402 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:37.079 your convenience and Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and all podcasting platforms. Thank 403 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:40.039 you so much for joining us my guest tonight as we discuss everything you want 404 00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:45.000 to know about Sicily and Sicilians, what we're afraid to ask. It's Gitano 405 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:52.880 Chipalahi's professor emeritus at Saint John's University in one of the foremost authorities on Sicilian 406 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:59.679 culture. Professor, welcome back again. We're doing the truncated version again. 407 00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:07.039 Trying to try to capture three thousand years of a very very involved history in 408 00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:09.599 just an hour's period of time is difficult to do. But one of the 409 00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:13.639 things I do want to address, and we teased it a little bit before 410 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:21.519 the commercials, is even I have being a Siciliani and share a certain kindred 411 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:24.880 spirit and know the strength that lies within the Sicilian culture, but not everybody 412 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:31.000 feels the same way. Often the image projected of Sicilians is not the best, 413 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:37.679 often associated with gangsters. Of course, because of the mafia influence in 414 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:42.519 Sicilian culture. How did that happen? How strong is it? What people 415 00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:47.320 what should people really know about Sicily, Sicilians and the mafia once and for 416 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:57.079 all. Well, that's a very difficult question to answer. I can tell 417 00:43:57.119 --> 00:44:07.800 you that recently they captured another godfather and who had been hiding in for years 418 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:15.280 when hiding in plainside. So obviously that is a problem. But I can 419 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:22.400 tell you that it is a problem that UH is a small problem in terms 420 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:30.559 of the importance of Sicilian life. I always think of it as something that 421 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:37.000 people have to live with. But I find that focusing on the mafia UH 422 00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:44.840 is really like missing the point. You missed the point because in effect Sicilian 423 00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:54.440 people have been maligned for ages, especially especially in this country, not based 424 00:44:54.519 --> 00:45:00.280 on nothing, based on nothing, because the people, every everyone who has 425 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:08.760 gone to Sicily from Jubay, an Arabic traveler of the eleventh century eleven twelfth 426 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:19.239 century, said Sicily was a paradise and the people are extremely generous, welcoming 427 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:27.960 they have they really do not deserve to be associated with the mafia. So 428 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:35.840 the mafia is like a disease that somehow has affected us as I said, 429 00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:43.320 basically, it has affected us to the point that whenever I meet a Sicilian. 430 00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:47.000 Whenever I meet a Sicilian, the first thing they tell me is, 431 00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:53.920 Professor, I am proud of being Sicilian. I am so proud of being 432 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:59.920 Sicilian. I didn't ask him, I don't I didn't ask them to volunteer 433 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:06.920 that information. And I have never heard a person from another part of Italy 434 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.760 come up to me and say, I am proud of the Bolognese, I 435 00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:16.000 am proud of a Venetian, I am proud of being Roman. Why not? 436 00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:22.800 Why not? Because what they are doing, they are basically telling me 437 00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:28.840 that all the people, all the stuff that is being said about Sicily is 438 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:35.719 a lie. I am proud of being Sicilian. And they tell me that. 439 00:46:35.960 --> 00:46:40.480 They tell me that without my asking. They other people have no no, 440 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:47.679 no desire, or no need to come up and say that they want 441 00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:55.239 to put the lie to what the media have spread all over the place, 442 00:46:55.639 --> 00:47:04.119 all these movies about the mafia, all god others, Godfathers and Babolinos and 443 00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:09.199 all the other stuff. At one time in I have an issue. I 444 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:14.159 had an issue with the New York Times once because one time they published an 445 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:20.480 article which basically said that ten percent of the Sicilian population lives on the mafia. 446 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:23.679 Now, ten percent of the Sicilian population living on the mafia means that 447 00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:31.280 there are five hundred, five hundred thousand people who are employed and making a 448 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:37.920 living on the mafia. That means one one tenth, one tenth of Sicilian 449 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:40.920 population. So if you happen to be in a crowd of Sicilian, one 450 00:47:42.079 --> 00:47:45.440 out of those ten people would probably be a mafioso. That's garbage, that's 451 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:53.199 absolutely but it persists. That's what people when they hear my name and I 452 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:57.159 said, I'll say, oh, well, I'm a proud Sicilian, and 453 00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:05.599 immediate as particularly Americans, well well well well, and even people who are 454 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:13.960 Italians Italian themselves will do that. The people who came to this country were 455 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.480 obviously people who didn't have much of an education. They didn't know how to 456 00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:22.800 read or right in most cases, they certainly didn't know anything about Sicily. 457 00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:30.039 They didn't know they lived. They were born in one town, they lived 458 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:34.599 in that town until they died, and if and they emigrated to to to 459 00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:42.599 the United States only to escape poverty. And then what happened after after Sicily 460 00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.920 became part of Italy. Right now, I am going to be publishing a 461 00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:52.960 book by a man named that Panel, who is a Sicilianist, who was 462 00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:59.719 a Sicilian he just passed away, who tells the story of of how Sicily 463 00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:07.679 be came a colony, when Garibaldi came to invade it and conquer it and 464 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:15.519 handed to Victor Emmanuel second Piedmont. So I am the book is going to 465 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:23.280 be told from the Sicilian point of view, and so that because people sometimes 466 00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:30.039 the people. History sometimes written by people who win, victors win, and 467 00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:37.840 they tell stories. So this book is going to be telling the story of 468 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:44.920 how things went when Sicily, when a thousand people, a thousand soldiers that 469 00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:52.519 came to Sicily, which had an army of of twenty five thousand people, 470 00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:58.360 well armed and well trained, and were defeated by one thousand people. So 471 00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:07.320 it happened because it was betrayals left and right, Because the British, for 472 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:15.920 example, enjoyed the idea of having a one country one Easily that involved also 473 00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:22.760 Sicily, so that they would somehow counter the influence of the French. So 474 00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:29.039 all kinds of things that happened. In any case, the mafia is was 475 00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:37.039 a blight on Sicily. But but it's it's a very small part of that 476 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:38.639 quickly, professor, we don't have a lot of time. But again, 477 00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:45.039 it to me, it's a matter of curiosity. How did it originally insert 478 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:49.280 itself into Sicilian culture? Can you help us with that at all? How 479 00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.239 did it? Where did it come from? What are the roots? If 480 00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:58.119 you will? Well, again, there are many different theories about it. 481 00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:04.000 But basically, when you have when you have a state that does not do 482 00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:12.320 its function, a state that does not behave that that not control and app 483 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:16.159 apply the laws that are written in the book. So when there is an 484 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:24.519 total absence of a state, of a state uh state that where you can 485 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:30.559 go to to right wrongs, then it creates a kind of a vacuum, 486 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:35.840 the vacuum of power. And that vacuum of power, especially in the late 487 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:44.320 nineteenth century, was was filmed by brokers. Power brokers who worked for for 488 00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:50.880 the landed gentry in Sicily, who who owned thousands of acres of land and 489 00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:57.599 spent their times sitting around in Pallezma rather than being on the land. And 490 00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:04.559 they assigned the running of the of these lands to what they're called the gabel 491 00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:13.760 other people, the powerbrokers tenant farmers who would hire people fire people, and 492 00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:19.920 they were basically the ones to even exercise what they called their own form of 493 00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:27.440 justice. So that basically there was a vacuum of power and the state was 494 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:32.159 absent. In the absence of the state, all kinds of people took advantage 495 00:52:32.199 --> 00:52:37.440 of it by creating their own laws, and so they had the people. 496 00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:43.840 You know these Gabe Lotty walked around on horseback with shotguns on their back and 497 00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:53.639 so the powers. But that's that's basically uh let's let's say that was the 498 00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:00.239 rural mafia. Of course today we don't have a rule. We have a 499 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:09.280 civil mafia where power is shared with poli politicians and with other people who hold 500 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:16.920 the power, so that there's always a connection between the power structure of people 501 00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:25.639 who are elected. The politicians basically incos with um with the mafia. I 502 00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:30.519 mean, we've seen we saw in the last fifty years, we have seen 503 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:38.880 that documented where politicians were always in the hoots with the mafia and did their 504 00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:45.000 bidding to get votes and to get themselves reelected. And so it's a very 505 00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:53.760 complex thing. But again that does not that should not be should not it 506 00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:59.320 should not have detracted They should not qualify. They should not qualify a Sicily. 507 00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:04.039 I'm I'm a Sicilian. I never heard about the mafia until I came 508 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.719 to the Since the people and I look at them, I don't know what 509 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:12.960 you're talking. I lived in eighteen years was the first eighteen years of my 510 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.480 life. When I came to this country, I learned about the mafia. 511 00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:22.800 The mafia from amazing. Well, you know, professor, your work and 512 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:24.559 I want you to talk a little bit about it. Your work is to 513 00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:30.280 spell those stereotypes I wanted. I can add one more thing. The Mafia 514 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:37.079 was reinstalled installed in Sicily, presumably after Mussolini had done away with it. 515 00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:43.880 He didn't really do that. It remained hidden someplace, but it was reinstalled 516 00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:49.800 by the American Army who brought who used Lucky Neu channel to help him UH 517 00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:55.400 do the UH the invasion of Sicily, so that people who were in the 518 00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:02.559 mafia, who were say power brokers, became mayors of a town thanks to 519 00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.159 the help that they provided to Sicily. But what are you going? What 520 00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:09.840 are you going to do it? It's a very complex thing. That's not 521 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:15.079 a pleasant thing, not a pleasant We're going to accentuate the positive with your 522 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:19.239 work, tell us a little bit about about your work, what you what 523 00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:22.400 you hope to accomplish. And I also know you have a poem in the 524 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:24.800 Sicilian language that we'd love to have you read. Well. Basically, I 525 00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:32.960 have founded three three series of books. One is called Waited that Persicula poets 526 00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:38.960 about Persecula, and we have seventeen different volumes in that with my translation. 527 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:45.760 And the second series is called Sicilian Studies, which has like thirty volumes dealing 528 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:52.360 also with Sicilian culture, Sicilian histories, sociology, etc. The poems, 529 00:55:53.519 --> 00:56:00.360 the poems, I mean, the poet series has seventeen different volumes of the 530 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:07.880 major poets, ancient as well as modern. So I've done translations of Giovanni 531 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:17.159 Meli. Giovanni Meli was the most important poet of the eighteenth century. I 532 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:24.559 have translated most of his work into English. I have translated some works of 533 00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:31.480 Antonio Velzziano, who was the most famous and the most gifted poet of Sicily 534 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:37.760 in the Renaissance. He was so great that whenever you read, whenever people 535 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:43.400 read a poem of his that didn't know who had written a poem, they 536 00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:47.800 assumed that it was written by him. Antonio Velzziano, remember that name. 537 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:55.400 He's really unimportant, fellow. I've translated Martolio anyway, I've translated lots of 538 00:56:55.519 --> 00:57:01.920 people. One person. Maybe I can read you one poem which is which 539 00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:09.760 is basically like the national anthem of of our organization LA and it was written 540 00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:15.079 by a man named in Nazi Bo who that's the way about twelve years ago. 541 00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:24.280 Uh. That says basically that when people lose their language that was learned 542 00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:31.280 by them from birth, then they become enslaved. They become poor and enslaved 543 00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:38.239 when they lose their language. And so for us, for Arbasicula, whose 544 00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:45.519 ideal, whose objective is basically the preservation of the Sicilian language, he became 545 00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:53.239 a poet like it's called lingua. I'll read you the Sicilian and i'll read 546 00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:58.119 you the English. Well, I hope you have time, if not, 547 00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:02.960 place your wealth time right, Yes you can edited. I'm getting an eye 548 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.519 from the early engineer. We have some time, please do so. Linga 549 00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:30.960 um popolotocatap cora libero levativague who support to who led to oran cora ri um 550 00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:51.159 popolo devend povero servo robinuling a pursuit precent deveendo iparoli, non figure, no 551 00:58:51.519 --> 00:59:05.519 allies man don area, bengia, cordaiara to dialect to capa. Then she 552 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:25.400 repects atilla kittie as suni parvaro. Are you idinari and spend and who can 553 00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:49.440 um parvarota? They mean shippia, figure vinchuria nuachimachi. The larbaro mean aunt 554 00:59:52.599 --> 01:00:12.400 or chess put never sto aka, then an alabasha who saw no kiss there's 555 01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:21.519 a store as would be answer natura e lamp in the lot kiss se non 556 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:31.840 nippon ubi, non nippon ubari bars poverty or funny. I have time to 557 01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:38.960 read the translation. I guess I should, because the yeah says we can. 558 01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:46.800 So let's do it all right. Language and dialect. People put them 559 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:52.920 in chains. Take away their possessions, plug their mouths. They are still 560 01:00:53.079 --> 01:01:00.400 free. Take away their jobs, their passports, the table where they eat. 561 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:07.400 They are still rich. People become poor and enslaved when you rob them 562 01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:16.079 of the language inherited from the fathers. They are lost forever. They become 563 01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:27.000 poor and enslaved when words do not give birth and devour one another. I 564 01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:32.559 realize this now as I tune the guitar of my dialect that loses a chord 565 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:43.519 every day while I mend the moth eaten cloth that our ancestors woe with wool 566 01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:47.880 of Sicilian sheep. And I am poor. I have money, but I 567 01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:52.679 cannot spend it. I have jewels and I can can't give them away. 568 01:01:53.360 --> 01:02:00.159 A song inside a cage with clipped wings, A poor man who the dry 569 01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:07.800 tits of a would be mother who calls him son as an insult. We 570 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:13.760 had a mother. Once they robbed us of her. She had breasts like 571 01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:19.880 fountains of milk, and everyone drank from her. Now they spit at her. 572 01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:24.840 Her voice has remained in us, her cadence, the low note of 573 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:30.360 the sound, and the lament. They cannot take these things from us. 574 01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:38.480 Her resemblance has remained, her way of to walk, her gestures, the 575 01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:45.679 flashing eyes. They cannot take these things from us. They cannot take them 576 01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:55.159 from us, But we remain poor an orphans just the same. Wowkay Bella, 577 01:02:55.280 --> 01:03:00.760 that's Emili, Thank you so much. I'm glad we were able to 578 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.159 fit them to do it. I wasn't rumbling too much. Very powerful, 579 01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:08.519 no good, good, good stuff. We appreciate it. We'd like to 580 01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:16.039 thank our guests, Professor Gaetano Chipa for Being Frank and for his intelligent conversation, 581 01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:20.320 and of course special thanks to our listeners who take the time to give 582 01:03:20.400 --> 01:03:23.320 us a voice in their lives. Remember we offer a fresh topic every week 583 01:03:23.639 --> 01:03:29.719 and you can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts like Apple, 584 01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:34.320 Spotify, iHeartRadio, Spreaker and more. You can also check us out 585 01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:37.360 on the Being Frank Facebook page. Let me leave you with a couple less 586 01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:42.440 nuggets. I mentioned Shakespeare, who sent many of his plays they think about 587 01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.639 eighteen of them in Italy and a couple in particular in Sicily. And this 588 01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.719 is one of the things he said. The climate delicate, the air, 589 01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:55.719 most sweet, fertile, the aisle, the temple, much surpassing the common 590 01:03:55.800 --> 01:04:01.159 praise it bears. That's Shakespeare. Good stuff. I'll leave your quoth with 591 01:04:01.719 --> 01:04:06.880 some original music. Remember we close every show with some original music. It's 592 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:11.960 always good stuff with some great artists. This week we have Laura Lee Hubbard 593 01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.800 and her song let Love. Thanks everybody, I'm your host, Frank Lebono, 594 01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:30.159 and we'll see you on the next Being Frank. She should go to 595 01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:41.480 be or sit around to get sick, sad and feeling down. No sichrenessity 596 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:49.159 of life, good fortune smiles, You're gonna dance, gree move, flow, 597 01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:58.760 give it up. A moron and feeling low. We have accid in 598 01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:10.480 life. I own my desty and the love will guide me, cast, 599 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:24.440 love inspires me, Love will brag away through. Choose to wait for a 600 01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:31.920 miracle. You might choose to look for a savior. You might work divine 601 01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:45.360 intervention and miss your own line. Don't be shocked or bewildered. Don't clean 602 01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:58.039 my cornis fortune for your saddest study. You live your dreams. Goga and 603 01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:18.480 let love guide you. Let inspire you may come, Yeah, guide you. 604 01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:56.480 Let's been spire you, Let go, they go where godspe well back. 605 01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:16.480 Let's be. Let love let away through for you go to be down, 606 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:28.760 go to be, flow me away, let love run away, Go 607 01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:35.360 to be and don't sit a running it safe, f into me. Let 608 01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:46.880 go la la lave sweet make away. This is Hudson River Radio dot com