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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin. Willis your host,

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and we got another great show for
you this evening. We have William or

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a Bill as he likes to be
called Grubowski. He's going to be talking

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about um, he has a he
had a number one seller on Amazon and

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black Light. It was called Perspectives
on Mysterious Phenomena and we're gonna be talking

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all about that, his interest in
UFOs, and a lot more. For

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all of those out there that celebrate
Christmas, Mary, Christmas to you.

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That's coming up in just two days. That's why we're a day early here.

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We are going to be doing that
next week as well. And that

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way, the radio station is not
going to be playing on New Year's evel

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or tomorrow night and Christmas Eve,
so we're going to get them the file

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early next week. This week,
again I told you it's Bill Jibrawsky.

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Next week is going to be a
another interesting show. It's going to be

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about all about Star Trek. Now
for those truck he's out there, it

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should be interesting. I'm going to
pull up the name right here in just

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a second of who we have.
We have two two people on what is

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actually he plays Captain Kirk, and
I'm sorry, my computer is just a

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little bit slow here. And his
name is Mark. Just can't pull up

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his last name. He's in the
new Star Trek that just come out recently,

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and they his the co host for
that show. That's going to be

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with him. Co guest, i
should say, is someone that has written

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a book recently. Also. And
I see these people without turning names on

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our right here right in front of
you. It's pretty funny, I know,

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isn't that funny? I just have
their pictures right here. Anyway,

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it's a it's Star Trek continues.
That's whom he plays. Captain Kirk is

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going to be on that and the
book it's actually an audiobook. I believe

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it's called These Are the Voyages and
Mark Cushman and Vic mcnogna. That who

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is good. That's who's going to
be on the show next week. So

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tune in for that again, Mary, Christmas to everyone out there who celebrates

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happy holidays and all that. It's
a wonderful time of year. It's actually

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pretty warm, warm here in Maine, seasonably warm. I gotta love that.

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And in the second hour we will
be taking calls tonight so we're not

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on KGr A Radio live this week, so we'll be taking calls at the

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old number. That will be posted
and if you want to write that down,

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if you're listening on YouTube right now, I will have it on the

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screen, but it is six h
three nine six seven four h three zero

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again. That'll be up in the
second hour. I guess it's a time

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too well. Let me just just
a couple of other things real quickly.

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Alejandro couldn't make the show tonight once
again, but he did say Merry Christmas

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to everyone out there, and hopefully
he'll be on. If not, If

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Alejandro doesn't come back, we're not
fighting. He's not ill or anything like

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that. Has nothing to do with
anything that people are speculating that are writing

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me. It's just that he has
he has just at this time decided that

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he didn't want to be on.
I know he was on Coast to Coast

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the other night. But anyway,
hopefully he'll be back. If not,

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we may do something different down the
line. I'm not really sure as far

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as the UFO news goes, but
I do want to thank everyone that helps

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out with the show and sports the
show. Anyone can do that. All

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you have to do is go over
to podcast UFO dot com dot com and

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you'll see the information over there.
There's also a Patreon site and you can

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listen to the full two hour shows
if you just help us out. We

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also have a blog up Charles Leo
rhoda blog for this week and it's called

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the UFO Archives of the University of
Manitoba, and that's about Chuck Rikowski Chris

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Kowski, that is, who has
donated a lot of UFO material to the

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University of Manitoba. So check out
that blog on podcast ufo dot com.

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Over at Facebook, we have news
stories posted by Peggy almost every single day

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regarding UFOs and space. Check it
out. Recently, I've been getting some

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email from listeners about the arts parts
as they used to be called, how

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they may be just like radiator materials. Now. I don't want to lead

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anyone astray or wrong or anything.
I know Linda moultenhow was involved or has

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the materials or had the materials to
the Stars Academy also had some type of

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involvement. It seems like at least
part of that could be just simple foil

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from a car radiator, but I
don't know about any of the other materials.

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I think the chain of ownership is
kind of iffy on that whole a

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lot of stuff. I don't really
have too much more as far as what

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I've been hearing from listeners. As
far as all that goes, I do

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know that also Palmer has sent me
a couple of UFO stories. He helps

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out quite a bit with stories,
and that there was another witness that has

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come forward on the uss Nimitz case, another pilot. I believe that's so.

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I don't have any of the details
there, but hopefully I'll have some

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more information on that next week.
And I think that's enough for me right

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now. So let's call in our
guest. Our guest, Bill, Welcome

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to the show. Thanks for having
me on, Martin. Yes, you

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were on a long time ago with
I was actually I had surgery and I

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was out and Michael Louck who filled
in for me. So I think that

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was what was that four years ago
or something like that? Excuse me,

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that was September twenty fifteen. Yeah, yeah, wow, time is flying.

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Yeah. So anyway, for the
a lot of people are not familiar

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with you and your work. If
you would, could you please give our

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listening audience, an idea of who
you are, and you know your background

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and you're what sparked your interest in
this topic. Well, the whole interest

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began aside from the usual growing up
in the our coming age rather like in

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the sixties and early seventies in Northeast
Ohio, and you know, usually kids

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in my age, you know,
we grew up watching Star Track and know

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the science fictional movies and stuff horror
movies. But in my case, the

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direct influence came from something to happen
to me when I was ten years old

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and living in a Northeast Ohio suburb
called Solon, Ohio, which it's about

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fifteen miles southeast of Cleveland, and
this was in June. It was very

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hot out. My father had built
an above ground pool, one of those

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like aluminum deals. I didn't know, maybe it was like like fifteen feet

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in diameter, and we had a
we had a shed applied with shed out

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there, a changing shed, and
I was going out to swim and I

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came around the corner of the shed
and I saw some sort of a bird

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that looked like it was about three
or four feet tall and had a straight

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pointed beak, and I knew enough
from seeing these this like Keywee brand boot

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polish, as bizarre as it sounds, and this is what this bird looked

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like. It had black bead eyes
and a long, straight pointed beak,

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and I didn't know what to make
of it. So I just stood there

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looking at it, and it started
to walk toward me, and I freaked

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out and ran inside. My mother
was there. She wanted to know what

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happened, because by that point I
was very upset. She thought that that

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maybe someone had got in the hold
of me and tried to molest me or

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something, and she went out there
and didn't see it. Um. And

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then later later on the day,
my father came home and we were in

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the basement. I was still upset. He had got me a new pair

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of boots. These were like Wellington
Cowboy boots, and he said, but

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let's just shine your trying your boots, you know, well, you'll feel

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better. So I was okay with
that. I'm ten years old and I'm

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still terrified. And he took out
the boot polish with the Kiwi bird hunt

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it and I said that that's that's
what I saw, and he's going,

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you saw this, what are you
talking about I said this that bird,

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I'm a cover there of this polish
That's what it resembled. And he didn't

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know what to make of it.
He was he was he was upset,

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and in retrospect, I can tell
he didn't want me to know that how

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upset he was about whatever it was
that I saw m and that that I

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don't know what you would call it
was that was that being dramatized? I

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don't know, Maybe it was,
but that started my interest. And also

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not long after that, there was
the case of these police officers who chased

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the supposed UFO from Ravenna, Ohio, across the border into Pennsylvania. And

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because of this, apparently they had
gotten into a lot of trouble by even

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reporting it by police authorities. And
one of the guys, one of the

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officers who was involved in his chase, he was very screwed up by it

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and he actually just left. He
just dropped his whole life and he hid

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out in the stolen motel in my
hometown. This was in the newspaper.

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People were talking about it, like, Yeah, did you hear about this?

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This police officer who said he chased
a UFO. So it's just I'm

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just adding a few more stones to
the pool. Like something was going on

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in the As you probably know,
there was a so called UFO wave in

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the mid sixties. Oh yes,
um, I guess this was part of

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that. Um. But but anyhow, between that, that incident of seeing

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the strange bird that that happened to
me, pardon me, and the uh

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this police police car chase, which
I think would be created in Close Encounters

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of the third kind um in the
beginning of the film. Um. That

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that's what sparked my interest, which
became kind of you know, obviously it

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became a lifelong interest enough to to
write a book about it and um and

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go from there. Have you ever
personally talked to other people about any type

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of um, you know, UFO
encounters or anything like that. Yes,

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um, I guess that, you
could say officially, at like announcing myself

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as a as a writer, the
first time I ever really like interviewed people

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was in Point Pleasant, West Virginia
exactly in two thousand and three. And

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prior to that, I had read, well even that long before that,

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when I was in high school,
I read the Mothman Prophecies, and of

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course we know that's a classic I
came out of nineteen seventy five, and

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when I was reading that, I
had kind of a I don't know,

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I researched and stuff this remembering this
thing that I saw right, just this

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bird that that could have very well
been just an out of place bird I

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wasn't used to seeing, or you
know, something else. I don't know,

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but reading Kiel brought that all back. And then much later on,

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you know, I'm still I'm still
following, you know, the field,

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reading reading the books. I'm also
reading the guys like Philip Class, you

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know, the who was the hardcore
skeptic right, and a few others.

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And then um, I'm reading more
more of Keel, which eventually led me

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to I think I found out online
about this this festival they had every year

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in Point Pleasant, the Mothman Festival. They figured out, okay, here's

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a way to help the time make
money. And because Point Pleasant is a

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small place and it's it's surrounded by
a live industry on the Ohio River.

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But this festival really really has taken
off. And to make a long story

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shorter, John Keel was there in
two thousand and three, and that was

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knowing that he was going to be
there. That got me a go say.

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I met him briefly. Um at
that point he was almost completely blind.

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I had no idea about that,
but he was in a a small

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like I guess it used to be
just a regular shop, and they made

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it so he could he could have
people file in the air, sign autographs,

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signed books, and I don't know
if they weren't prepared for this or

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what, but there were a lot
of people getting his autograph in. And

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this was shortly after the movie version
of Mothman Prophecies came out, so I'm

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obviously that gave it a huge boost. So I got to talk to him

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briefly, took some photographs, unfortunately
not very good photographs because I was using

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it as posable camera. But I
did get to speak with some of the

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original witnesses that he mentions in Mothman
Prophecies. And it turned out that the

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town was still like it wasn't there
when these things happened in sixty six and

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sixty seven, still divided that you
know, part of the town was like

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they seemed embarrassed, yet they still
showed up for the festival, right,

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and then the other ones were like, oh, this is all completely true.

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It ruined my family, you know, it drove my grandmother crazy.

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And but but that's how the whole
thing, that's how it was sustained with

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me anyway, And that was also
what started this idea about writing a book.

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It took me a long time to
get that far though. Uh yeah,

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Um, speaking of books, um, you've written how many? Now?

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Has is it? Nine? Right? Including black Light is the only

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thus far nonfiction book. All my
other stuff is um this fiction like primarily

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dark fiction like horror and the darker
end of the science fiction cyberpunk spectrum.

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And you have A Cold World.
That's an upcoming book that you expect coming

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out that's also going to be nonfiction, right right? That that is that

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that will be a It's related to
Black Light, but a very different kind

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of book. It's kind of whereas
black Light to be described as well,

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it's a deconstruction of of you of
the UFO field and paranormal and Cold Cold

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World is more like, um,
I don't want to say attacking, but

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let's say it's a survey of of
of current day philosophy like speculative realism and

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really about trying to dig into what
you could call the operating system of reality

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and the world and how much it's
changed since since the Internet came to life.

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Yes, that topic does come up
on on the show, has come

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up, for instance, a number
of times I've talked to old time researchers

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and say and have said to them, you know, what has happened in

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the world of upology since the Internet, you know, came around? One

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of the some of the changes.
Um, there's the good and bad,

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you know. I mean I could
think of almost as many bad as a

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good good. For instance cgi UM. You know when it comes to YouTube

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and all that, there are a
number of Um, there is a there's

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a website devoted to the skepticism good
skepticism of UFOs to keep you know,

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more or less, keep people honest. I can't think of the name of

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it right now, but on that
what's that is that Robert Schaeffer bad UFOs?

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No, I know who I know
who that is? Actually I met

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him in Phoenix a few years ago. This is this is actually I wish

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I could pull it up. I
send an email to him, ask him

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to if I could use some of
his information. But I do believe that

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he had called out sixty four YouTube
channels that were sending out you know,

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basically hoax videos in order to gain
traffic, in order to make money.

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And there was one channel supposedly that
was making you know, several thousand dollars

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a week just on you know,
fake YouTube videos out there, which is

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it's really a shame when it comes
to someone that is trying to take a

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00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:19,319
serious look at, you know,
what's going on and they get hung up

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on a couple of videos they find
out later that are just fake, and

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then they'll just go away, they'll
no longer have interest in it. Kind

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of burns. This happens way too
much. Yeah, Yeah, nothing anyone

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00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:40,119
can do, only you know,
perhaps call out when you see something like

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that. And then also just keep
our side of the road clean, as

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they say, and you know,
make sure that we don't ever give any

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gasoline to the fire of any of
the you know, of any of the

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00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:56,680
fraudulent stuff out there, right right, That's that's the best way. And

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he has been said before, like
the burden of proof is on the people

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are putting these videos up, you
know, and they i mean they have

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no choice really about to submit to
you know whatever analysis people like like me

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00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:11,319
or you would apply to it,
but the burden of proof is on them

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because you're right with CGI. I
mean, I've seen some videos I'm sure

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you have, um or they're incredible
and you get transfixed and then you realize,

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well, okay, I know a
little bit about how CGI works,

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and this is probably how this is
done in the end, and then,

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uh, you know, thank whatever's
in charge. Usually someone shortly comes up

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00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,480
with, okay, here, here's
here's what this video is about. Here's

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how it probably was done. And
then they, you know, of course

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they have to say here's why,
here's how we know it's fake. Yeah.

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Um, yeah, And I I
personally appreciate that. I try to

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run a show that you know,
we try to stay as solid as we

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possibly can on such an unusual topic
that is m you know that we actually

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have no proof of what of actually
what is what it is that we're seeing,

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um, other than the fact that
we're definitely seeing something you know,

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right right and what you're what you're
feeling about, um, what people are

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seeing. I know, UM,
I've heard you say something along the lines.

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It doesn't mean that there's any proof
that it's et and I agree with

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00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:30,079
you. I just feel like we
have said this a number of times that

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I feel like I know less about
the topic the more I get into it.

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Um. Yeah, I couldn't agree
more. And the only thing that

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hasn't changed about the way I feel
about it is I think that whatever it

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is, the least likely seeing is
an extraterrestrial And hopefully you didn't just lose

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00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:56,279
like five thousand listeners. UM I
mean saying that, but somebody has to

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say it. It's because, um, people who are are easily manipulated,

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and usually it's through UM. I
know, I know. Keel was big

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on this about the power of belief
systems and on how they they have slowly

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slowly UM, I don't want to
say completely, but largely replaced, like

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the religious impulse in some people to
where not only and I found this one

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point pleasant. Not only do they
believe some stuff, they need to believe

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it. And if you get let's
just say, if you get cranky toward

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00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,519
them and say, you know,
well, what are you are? You?

255
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:33,119
You know, are you a nut? Why would you believe this crap?

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00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,319
And they would say it's not about
you know, you can tell me

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00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,480
anything you wants or with facts.
I don't care. I believe it I

258
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know what I saw, right,
And you can't say, as I found

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00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,960
out, no, you don't know
what you saw because you don't know enough

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about you know, astronomy and physics. And in a case of like like

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with Mothman, right, are so
called crypto terrestrial? You know, you

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00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:03,000
don't know about how stress affects you. And but so you can't stand there

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00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,240
and tell that people with a straight
face, because they're gonna you know,

264
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,160
it could gets fineent just like you
know, trying to if you go up

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to you know, like a devout
Catholic and say, do you know that

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you believe what you believe in is
your rational you know they're not gonna they

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might not want to leave you standing. M Yeah, there's been wars over

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things like that. Absolutely. Um
yeah, you know, I mean I

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I think I personally, my personal
thoughts are is that some of what people

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00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:42,119
saying now now I feel like I'm
sounding like Stanton Friedman because he said,

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you know, some of what people
are actually seeing out there he does believe,

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or he did believe, was extraterrestrial. And I'm thinking that all I'm

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thinking that it is possible that some
of what people are seeing is extraterrestrial,

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I wouldn't rule it out, sure, and a nance as far as far

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as I can go, right,
I cannot. You know, the old

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the saying is, um, you
know you'll be intellectually dishonest if you say,

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no, no chance, none of
it's extraterrestrial. I would never go

278
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:17,720
that far because it could be.
I just don't know that it is.

279
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,519
Yeah. Yeah, but as far
as uh, well, we're going to

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be going into breaking just a couple
of just a couple of minutes here.

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Um, as far as your book
that is coming out, when you say

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00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,960
you're kind of picking apart um the
beliefs, does this also cover the UFO

283
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:44,759
phenomena as well? In this book
there will be a chapter maybe two that

284
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,559
does get into there. And it's
more, it's more covered in in philosophy,

285
00:23:48,559 --> 00:23:52,359
there's a thing called speculative realism.
And what it is. It's it's

286
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,319
looking at like let's just for a
really quick example here, like what someone

287
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,559
points at a table and they say, whatever that is, whatever that object

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00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,799
is, it's not a table,
we call it that, but in reality

289
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,799
it's just you know, it's an
object with legs. And the scary thing

290
00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:17,640
about speculative realism. An object oriented
ontology is that it makes it really it

291
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,240
looks as humanity as as objects.
Okay, not not like objectifying, but

292
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:26,559
as as if. It's like stripping
the world down to its basics, and

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00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:32,599
what's left over is really unpleasant to
think about, like like, for instance,

294
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,480
nothing in the world needs us.
If we disappear tomorrow, no animal

295
00:24:36,519 --> 00:24:41,200
would miss us, things things of
that nature. And the point is so

296
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:44,799
you can start all over again and
build it back up and look at it

297
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:48,200
with a with a clear ride.
Yeah, I think the world would be

298
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,240
actually better off without us. I
hate to say it, but it might

299
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:56,000
agree with you. Martin, Yeah, yeah, all right, Well it's

300
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,200
time to go into our first break, so hang and everyone will be right

301
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,960
back. This is Martin Willis with
William Grubowski and we'll be right back.

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00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,400
All right, So welcome back to
the show, I guess tonight, as

303
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:18,599
William or as he likes to be
called, Bill Grubowski. So let's see

304
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:30,640
as far as as far as if
it were et and it was actually confirmed

305
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:37,480
that these are extraterrestrial that are visiting
us, if it ever was at any

306
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:41,680
given time, do you think we're
in a different place than we were,

307
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:48,000
say twenty five years ago, as
far as how society would handle something like

308
00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:55,720
that and if so or if not, why so or why not? Yeah,

309
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,599
I would say we're in a very
different place. And but again going

310
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:04,000
out on a limb here, I'm
glad that I'm not standing in the midst

311
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:11,519
of of a huge crowd. Um. When when television came around, people

312
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:15,720
were very we're very concerned that I
was going to like, you know,

313
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,640
rock rock, the imaginations mostly of
kids. It's always are the kids right?

314
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:22,160
Protect the children? And you know, I'm all for that. Why

315
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,480
shouldn't. They're the future. They
have to be protected. But television was

316
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,839
Initially it was fear right that it
would really corrupt people. But the thing,

317
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,039
the big difference now is watching television's
a passive experience. It's not interactive.

318
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,119
These days, it is right,
you can change the channel, you

319
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,400
can binge watch you know, whatever
you want. You can watch all the

320
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:48,559
breaking bad in a week or whatever. But the point is the culture has

321
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:55,119
has changed completely. And now with
um, you know, the power of

322
00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:02,079
belief, you know, the chances
for manipulation are deeper. But like the

323
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,480
like, the general population is now
so used to you know, kind of

324
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,400
a fragmented attention span. And you
know that's all that's another big thing.

325
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,079
All the Internet is killing attentions.
Well it is. And if you spend

326
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,960
too much time I there's there,
you build up in impatience with things.

327
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,880
Um and this is also, as
I've found out, is hurting the publishing

328
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,319
industry where you know, and and
it's again it's dangerous to say things like,

329
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,640
well, the average person blah blah
blah, because when you try and

330
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,960
find the average person, that person
doesn't exist because you're you know, you're

331
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,079
trying, You're trying to put you
know, a group of people into one

332
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:45,119
hole and you can't do that.
But attentions are you know, I'm just

333
00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:48,960
I followed things. I pay attention. I pay attention to what comments people

334
00:27:48,039 --> 00:27:53,240
make, and even like they may
be reading an article that's fascinating and they

335
00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:56,279
might say, oh wow, that
was long, and then I'll look at

336
00:27:56,279 --> 00:28:02,119
it and go, it was like
four pages. That's too long. And

337
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:03,920
it's kind of a fear I have, Like, you know, I'm a

338
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,799
guy who writes books, Well,
is is there really a future in that?

339
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,960
Because personally I don't like ebooks.
I don't I don't enjoy that experience

340
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:18,839
some of the books I get to
review for UM Library Journal. Sometimes they're

341
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,599
ebooks, mostly they're not, though
they're they're really good about sending hardcover.

342
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:29,920
But um, the experience of always
always, always being in this this sort

343
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,720
of eternal present moment is stressful.
And I find that that's more true about

344
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:40,920
people my age. Like I was
born in fifty eight, so I'm older

345
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,160
than a lot of people. But
but anyhow, it seems that it's harder

346
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,920
on those of us who were around
before the Internet and then had to adapt

347
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,400
to it than it is on people
who kind of are blowing into it.

348
00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,160
They don't really see like, well, why are you so upset about this?

349
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,759
And that it's almost like, well
know, if you don't know how

350
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,920
to drive a car and you've never
wrecked one, you will not be able

351
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:10,119
to understand what that feels like.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm right

352
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,079
there with you and the age and
everything, and no, I I totally

353
00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:21,359
get it. And um, I
also, you know you're talking about all

354
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,279
the information coming at us. That's
what it's it's about, and why the

355
00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:32,200
extent the attention spans are so short. I do believe it's like everything is

356
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,680
being pelted at us in all different
ways, and you yeah, and then

357
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:42,279
if you I never really talk about
too many personal things in my life,

358
00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:48,480
but my career has been extremely busy. That's why I missed out on doing

359
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,480
a show last week. It's just
has really taken off and been very busy.

360
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,759
But also, um, I took
a segment of out of my life.

361
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:03,839
They had to do with the Internet
and had to do with the you

362
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,839
know, paying attention and that as
I decided, oh, I don't know,

363
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,680
maybe a month ago, this is
something very personal to me and I'll

364
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,400
probably get email about it. And
I described about a month ago to completely

365
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:23,359
disconnect from politics completely because I was
it was actually getting me down and the

366
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:30,880
divisiveness in this country and the attacking
and the negativity. So I completely got

367
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,440
rid of all my news apps.
I completely get rid of anything they had

368
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,640
to do with news. I'm off
of Facebook everything. And I got to

369
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:44,839
tell you, I feel I have
more time for myself. I feel one

370
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:51,119
hundred percent better. And it's just
something I had to do. But just

371
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,920
kind of segueing into the amount of
information that's out there that's coming at people

372
00:30:56,039 --> 00:31:02,960
all the time, and I think
this is also in the respect to people

373
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,440
that are looking into this topic.
There's can be they can find all kinds

374
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,640
of information, podcasts, videos and
uh, and I can get letters straight

375
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:21,440
fairly quickly. Um. So there
you go. Yeah, Um, I

376
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,400
completely get every word you said.
And the thing is, especially when filtered

377
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,079
through you know, all the the
UFO stuff, what I'm seeing is um.

378
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:36,559
And and again not to harp on
younger people of that, not only

379
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:41,720
are they not aware of like the
older cases. Um, there's there's almost

380
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,440
a sort of, you know,
a grudging acceptance, Well, why I

381
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:49,400
don't have to know that stuff.
It's all on the internet. And to

382
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,880
someone like me values books and learning
and all of that, I'm like,

383
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:57,160
how can you say that it's not
don't rely on the internet for information,

384
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:01,359
rely on what you learn, you
know and teach herself and and man,

385
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,680
no, I'll get you slapped on
fast. In some quarters, the idea

386
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:09,599
of well why do I need to
know you know, geography, general geography

387
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,440
or whatever, general history when I
can just look it up our history.

388
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,519
I'm like, well, yeah,
right, history when you go to h

389
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:21,480
depends on where you get your information. I'm not so sure a lot of

390
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,000
people using the internet are aware that
there are so called authority sites. And

391
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:30,319
there's a dangerous word to use right
there, to look at like Wikipedia is

392
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:36,160
not the ultimate authority on anything.
In my opinion, that's wrong. Yeah,

393
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,759
you know, I mean enough,
I want to know something and be

394
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,359
certain about it. Let's say there's
there's a small country I don't know a

395
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:45,920
lot about. Am I going to
go to Wikipedia? No, I'm going

396
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,200
to go to like National Geographic.
I'm going to go to some you know,

397
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,200
God saved me some government database and
look at that. Because these people

398
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,160
are paid to provide you know,
correct information, they're they're liable for it.

399
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,440
That's why I would trust it.
If if someone has something to lose

400
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:07,599
by putting up you know, bad
information, that person can probably be trusted.

401
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,240
I say, I have nothing to
lose. Wikipedia has nothing to lose.

402
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,720
If they put cramp up there.
Someone can come in, anyone can

403
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:20,279
come in and just edit it,
edit out. That's the thing. When

404
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:22,960
I first heard about that, I'm
like, man, that's a bad idea.

405
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,000
You know. Now, I understand
democracy and all that, right,

406
00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:30,319
but when it comes to you know, okay, two and two equals four,

407
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,839
right, yes it does. And
guess what that never changes no matter

408
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,640
what you say about it. You
can hate two plus two equals four,

409
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,599
but that's what it is. And
Wikipedia seems to saying no, no,

410
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:42,799
no, no, it's what I
say it is because I'm allowed to.

411
00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:49,759
And you know that's a can of
worms there. Yes, So it's like,

412
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,440
you know, here we are in
the information age. But it's it's

413
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,599
a double edged sword, you know. I think that's kind of what what

414
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,599
the tone of this conversation is.
It's a double edged sword because, um,

415
00:34:01,599 --> 00:34:07,639
it is there's as much misinformation is
there is information, and to try

416
00:34:07,639 --> 00:34:13,199
to sort it all out, especially
when it comes to something like UFOs or

417
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,800
anything you know, paranormal. Um, so what are your are you?

418
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,039
You mentioned earlier that there it's almost
like a religion, and what do you

419
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:30,679
think, Uh, pop culture you
know plays into say something like UFOs.

420
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,320
Um hugely, absolutely huge. Yeah. I recall discussing this with Michael luck

421
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,000
when the last time I was on
podcast UFO, and we we probably got

422
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:44,239
a little too deeply into that.
But but I think for a good reason,

423
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,280
like pop culture and everyone's affected by
it. It's like the air.

424
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:51,400
You know, you're a fish in
water. You don't even notice it hardly,

425
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,840
and it does I think it does
affect people's viewpoints on on UFO reality

426
00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:01,039
or non reality. And you know, some of the movies television shows,

427
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:07,880
they're so like visually sophisticated that you're
you're affected emotionally and you want to believe

428
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,480
things, or there's that whole old
there's that old saying, you know from

429
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,840
the X Files, I want to
believe. I always hated that poster in

430
00:35:16,039 --> 00:35:20,719
Motor's office because I always think,
no, I like, I don't want

431
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,280
to believe. I want to understand. It's a difference. And pop culture

432
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:30,039
really really works that, you know, like they do work on people's people's

433
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:34,159
beliefs and emotions because that's how they
stay in business. So you know,

434
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:37,480
at the bottom of that, there's
this whole you know, bottom line mentality.

435
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:43,000
And it's also been called predatory capitalism. Not that I'm like, I'm

436
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:47,199
like anti capitalist, I'm anti bad
capitalism to to where it, you know,

437
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,360
all it cares about is manipulating people's
feelings so they'll buy more stuff.

438
00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:59,199
Yes, um, yeah, capitalism
is not perfect, that's for sure.

439
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:05,320
And it just seems that we can
always expect a downturn and we can always

440
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,840
expect recession and depression when when we
have a capitalism and up. I don't

441
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:15,679
know what the answer is. It
could be tuned up possibly, but yeah,

442
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,679
and that's the thing. It's like, well it's a big game.

443
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,320
But but you know, at least
in America, it's kind of like,

444
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,239
well, it's the only game in
town, and you have to you have

445
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,280
to pay attention to it. And
so you know, try and avoid falling

446
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,039
into traps like verify things that you
see on mine or on television, you

447
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:38,920
know, because it is it's so
easy to fake today. And what exactly,

448
00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:50,960
I've never really heard predatory capitalism and
how does that how does that work

449
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:55,840
with what our topic is about?
Well, I've one word springs right to

450
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:01,079
mine, like clickbait we started talking
about, and um, you know as

451
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:07,360
far as like the like UFO phenomenon
goes m man, especially places like YouTube

452
00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:14,760
with with these with these videos and
m h see that's the whole thing like

453
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,639
that, that exactly, that's the
bad that's it draws people in and then

454
00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:23,920
you know, you can't you can't
really fairly blame the individual for going holy

455
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,639
crap, have you seen this video? Because I myself have been in that

456
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,559
seat. I still am. Some
days we're all see a video and go,

457
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,440
that is that's astounding? What is
that? And then someone else does

458
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,280
the work for me and they say, well, no, no, here's

459
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,719
how this really worked. But had
I not known that, and I was

460
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,280
in you know what, whatever anxiety
moved that day or something, I may

461
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:51,639
have went, that's absolutely real and
you cannot tell me it's not. M

462
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:57,880
don't remember. Do you remember the
alien autopsy film when that came out,

463
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,199
and then oh yeah, I was
one of the the poor sides that went

464
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:06,159
out and bought the VHF. I
had to see you more, well,

465
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,119
I do. I do remember.
I wasn't paying any attention to the UFO

466
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:15,239
field at that time, and I
had a busy an auction company basically,

467
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,920
so I was extremely busy, and
I remembered like walking past the TV and

468
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:25,039
then seeing an alien being operated on
and going whoa, and you know,

469
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:30,880
it's kind of funny. You know. Back then my reaction was wow,

470
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:36,559
hey, well I guess it's real, and then I moved on. I

471
00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:39,079
didn't even you know, and I'm
wondering how if there were other people that

472
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,639
or if this is what will actually
happen once you know, we really actually

473
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:51,519
do find there's a intelligent life out
there well right away, and I can

474
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:53,800
only I'm glad I heard your example
that you were able to see that,

475
00:38:54,039 --> 00:38:58,280
right, and then go, well, I don't know, and you weren't.

476
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,000
You were not you know, into
me, crazy about obsessed with it.

477
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:05,280
And when I saw that, I
was like, okay, okay,

478
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,079
for what I thought was that is
either that's that's got that's got to be

479
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:14,320
real, or it is the best
hoax I have ever seen. And this,

480
00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:17,440
in my case, this I think
I've been on the internet maybe two

481
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:22,079
years in that came. That came
out of like nineties seven or something like

482
00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:27,239
that. Nineties sounds about right,
um. And then I saw it in

483
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,960
it was covered in one of the
UFO magazines, and then it started to

484
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,840
get like mainstream news coverage like this
can't this cannot be real because if it,

485
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,400
if it were, there's no way
that that sort of a thing could

486
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,280
be kept under wraps. The way
people talk, even even you know,

487
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,800
people who are you know, supposedly
like working in the intelligence community, there's

488
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,119
there are leaks all the time,
and something that big. I was thinking,

489
00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:52,960
no way that cannot be hidden.
And then of course it turned out

490
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,679
to be a hoax. Now we
know how it was done and all that,

491
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,840
and they tried to you know,
tie it in with Roswell. Yeah

492
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,000
that's right. Um, I remember
that, the tie in with Roswell.

493
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:07,760
And that's funny. The funny thing
about the leg that's kind of like burnt

494
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,960
off one of the legs, and
that was because it wasn't They accidentally did

495
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,519
that and then made it look like
you know, it was it was burnt

496
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:22,920
or something, right, yeah,
yeah, And just recently there's there was

497
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:30,559
some talk about that, um that
I think the owner of the film was

498
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:35,079
trying to say somehow again that it
was really real or something along those lines.

499
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,360
And of course Philip Mantel, who's
one of the people. He was

500
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,599
actually going to be on the show
last weekend and became ill couldn't make the

501
00:40:42,599 --> 00:40:46,920
show. But he is really the
one that uncovered the fact that it was

502
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,960
fake. He did all the work
on that in England. And this was

503
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:55,239
Philip what is his last name?
Mantle like a fireplace, Yeah, okay

504
00:40:55,559 --> 00:41:00,760
about yeah, yeah, so but
no, no, interesting, he was

505
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,199
able to figure all that out.
Santilly. I think the person's name is

506
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,679
that was involved in the yeah,
right, right, yeah, but I

507
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,519
mean, there's a good case right
there of uh, you know, something

508
00:41:13,559 --> 00:41:17,519
getting out there and the reaction to
it. You know, how are people

509
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:21,559
going to react to something like that? I mean that was worldwide, that

510
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:24,679
went everywhere. Yeah, and there
was a that was the viral before there

511
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:30,199
was viral as a term, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so you

512
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:37,639
mentioned earlier that you don't think that
people getting into, say the UFO topic

513
00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:42,280
at all, they're not interested in
the old cases, because I do get

514
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,719
some every once in a while,
I'll get an email from a listener that

515
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:46,800
say, hey, why do you
always talk about the old case? We're

516
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,840
sick of the old cases. But
you know, I mean, I guess

517
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,559
the best new case, or the
one that people are talking about the most

518
00:41:54,559 --> 00:42:00,440
of these days, is not really
new. But it's not really that old

519
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:05,639
two thousand and four Nimits case.
That's pretty strong and pretty interesting. Have

520
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,519
you yourself looked into any of that, Yes, they have. Um,

521
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,599
I guess the first thing that got
my attention, Um, it's a personal

522
00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:15,760
thing. My my cousin used to
be on the nimits. So I saw,

523
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,519
I just solid what USS nimits like. Okay, I gotta hear about

524
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:22,719
this. And then when I heard
what it was about, I was like,

525
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:29,360
Okay, now I have my attention, um, And it's it's unusual

526
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:35,199
that it's persisted this long, but
that just that just proves how you know,

527
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,599
if someone gets emotionally into something,
it's very hard to shut it off.

528
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,039
And even if you're a pretty well
educated person, it's it's hard to

529
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:51,239
overrule emotions with your intellect. And
then that whole thing there, like my

530
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,000
take on it is after after reading
all this stuff and I'm still keeping up

531
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,480
with it, right, is that
it looks to me like it's probably a

532
00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:05,480
target Roman. M hmm. I
don't know. There's there would have to

533
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:12,800
be a lot of questions answered,
um when it came to the capabilities and

534
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:17,800
the uh, I just don't know. I mean, they're talking about one

535
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,960
hundred and thirty g's, you know, some of the right hand turns and

536
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:29,079
things like that. You know,
there's been a lot of uh speculation lately

537
00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:31,440
on the Internet that I've seen,
you know, pop up about it being

538
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:37,880
some type of you know, advanced
military um, you know, training exercise

539
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,880
to see what the Navy would you
know, how the Navy would react,

540
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,320
and yeah, and I don't know, you know, when you hear of

541
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:51,960
actually what the thing did and what
happened um it to me, it seems

542
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:58,159
pretty incredible. I really don't know
what to think, but I do believe

543
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:02,280
that it's it's pretty unusual. And
um then there was also the case of

544
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:08,719
course off Florida, UM you know
ten years later that was pretty incredible as

545
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:14,960
well. And uh, I might
not be familiar with that one. What

546
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:19,599
if you don't mind briefly what happened
there? Well that's um where the one

547
00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:25,559
of the videos that came out,
um that to the Stars Academy is you

548
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:30,960
know had that film. Um,
lou Alesando had something to do with that

549
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,960
film as well. It's called the
Gimbal. Are you familiar with that?

550
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,360
It turns some sections. Okay,
I'm familiar with with with the name gimbal,

551
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,119
but I can't. I don't know
if I've seen that fit or is

552
00:44:43,559 --> 00:44:46,199
this the one with the multiple lights
over the ocean? It's the one where

553
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:52,400
it's actually turning. It keeps showing
that it's tilting. And then there's the

554
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,519
the pilots are you know commenting on
it? And you know, hey dude,

555
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:59,239
or you know all that type of
stuff. Oh, now you know

556
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,159
when you put it that way with
the dialogue. I think I had seen

557
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:08,039
that video. That's the one that
actually came out on in December uh sixteenth,

558
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:12,320
twenty seventeen, and the New York
Times. It was really the same

559
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,800
time that that article came out.
That's what made the big you know,

560
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,239
all the headlines and all the news
stories. It was was the gimbal.

561
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,760
The tik Tak video was secondary and
one that you see, uh, you

562
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:32,079
rarely see compared to the gimbals,
the number one video. Okay, right

563
00:45:32,199 --> 00:45:37,360
right, yeah, I can,
I can to see my my adult memory,

564
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,480
I'm seeing those two merds, the
tik Tak and the Gimbo. And

565
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:47,199
I recall reading about where where you
can see the the pilot dash right,

566
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,639
the readouts and everything that's it.
Yeah, you see the screen, uh

567
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,320
huh and the you know, the
knots per wind and you know all that

568
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,519
stuff. Yeah, right, And
I don't remember someone was commenting on okay,

569
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:06,239
if you look closely at you know, the screen, the pilot screen

570
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,480
on this on this video and then
look at this all the one that that's

571
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:14,559
coming to mind. For some reason, like there was either a discrepancy or

572
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,880
or there was something was brought up
about the what the pilot could see on

573
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,760
the screen, and I don't know
exactly what they call it. Um,

574
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,639
I don't need on the instruments to
lead out. Yeah yeah, UM,

575
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:34,119
so you've you've kind of following that
you have following followed that whole situation,

576
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:39,880
UM on both sides to me.
We chatted just briefly just ahead of the

577
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:45,360
show, and you mentioned that you
have seen different things posted by people like

578
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,960
John Greenwald and all that. It's
Uh, yes it is. It is

579
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:54,320
quite a mystery, UM, when
all the pieces come together, trying to

580
00:46:54,320 --> 00:47:00,800
figure out which way is which?
Um. What are your thoughts in general

581
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,320
when it comes to um, you
know Tom, what Tom DeLong has done,

582
00:47:07,559 --> 00:47:10,079
the people with him, that's a
whole I guess I'm glad that I

583
00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:14,519
have been following this. The thing
is, what it proves about me is

584
00:47:14,559 --> 00:47:19,360
that no matter what someone is saying
about you know, is this a UFO?

585
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,480
Is this not a UFO? I'm
basically relying on three people, um,

586
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:29,679
John Greenwald, Robert Schaefer and Jack
Brewer. Jack Jack Brewer, I

587
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,199
haven't talked to him in a while, but I can seer him a friend

588
00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:36,519
and I really I trust he's about
it. I guess he's about as objectives

589
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:39,679
as a person can be and be
interested in this stuff and you know,

590
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,119
comment intelligently about it. And as
far as this this recent thing goes,

591
00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:49,039
which is, you know, really
not that recent anymore. And I said

592
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:52,880
earlier that I thought it was a
target drone. I should have said no,

593
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:58,400
no, I think it's like a
high performance you know, classified the

594
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:04,480
aircraft or some sort of thing,
and that they were testing reactions of pilots,

595
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:07,119
you know, and of course the
pilots can't know what it is because

596
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:13,559
they won't get a genuine reaction.
And a year years ago, you know,

597
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,800
Jacques Vali published this, uh,
I think it was in Forbidden Science.

598
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:25,679
The I mentioned this in my book. There was a memorandum where the

599
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:37,039
military military intelligence was suggesting that um
ufo phenomena be faked to test public reaction.

600
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:43,039
Um, I'm actually looking at my
own book right here, very quickly,

601
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:49,599
the Pencacle memorandum and Projects Stork.
And this this memorandum which which Jacques

602
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:55,239
vally hid from Alan Heinik for a
while, but he eventually showed it to

603
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,760
him where and then and this this
is an actual memorandum and I think it

604
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:06,360
was written by Btel, the Betel
Institute in Columbus, Ohio, where I

605
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,760
used to live. Strangely um where
they were they were they were a think

606
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:15,400
tank. Betel still is a think
tank, and they were suggesting faking UFO

607
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:22,079
sightings and calibrating the public's reactions because
they were trying to you know, it

608
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:25,119
was some kind of a you know, this is another classic conspiracy thing where

609
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,679
you know, involved with contingency planning
and you know, what are we getting?

610
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:35,079
What is the government going to do
if there is an actual UFO whatever

611
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:37,079
you want to call it, breakout
invasion? How will people react? We

612
00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:42,599
have to know how they react,
And this this Pentacle memorandum was suggesting that.

613
00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:46,719
And then late later on in time
people that people have said other researchers

614
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:52,119
like, well the UFOs were seeing
today, you know, the triangles and

615
00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:59,039
stuff. Maybe this is part of
that proud of that program. Who knows?

616
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:05,880
Very interesting? Wow, Well Jack
Jack Brewer was on this show back

617
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,320
in twenty sixteen, and so John
Greenwald has been on and and uh um

618
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:16,480
and Schaeffer has not been on,
but he has been invited. You know,

619
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:22,800
I I do like uh I do
like listening to uh, you know,

620
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,199
people's point of view, even it
doesn't matter if they're a skeptic.

621
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,519
Um, It's all interesting to me
because I don't think you know, again

622
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:37,679
that anyone really has any answers and
definitive, you know whatever, the truth,

623
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,559
so to speak. And if you
know, if they have it,

624
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:44,800
they're not talking, yeah, or
if they think they have it and say

625
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,519
they have it, then run away, right, I have the absolute truth,

626
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:52,800
man, Yeah, yeah, that's
right. Yeah, hold on,

627
00:50:53,679 --> 00:51:00,280
I'll call you back. Hum.
So what do you think, um,

628
00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:07,880
if you were out there like wanting
to get younger people looking into this topic,

629
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,679
what do you think a good approach
to that is? Do you think

630
00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:15,639
would you go back to the reading
of books or do you just think that

631
00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:21,400
that's lost in today's it's kind of
what you're mentioning. I guess I'm hoping

632
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,880
it's not lost. You know,
I don't think it is, because that's

633
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:30,519
how I'm making my living as a
writer, and again not primarily through through

634
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:34,679
writing about you know, UFO and
paranormal phenomena, but it's still part of

635
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,480
my income, right, so on
a way, you know, I have

636
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:42,039
to be I have to count on
my own. Let's just call it integrity

637
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:47,239
and my desire to be to be
truthful even if it hurts me. So

638
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,960
what would I you know, for
a young person, I guess I would

639
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,320
probably if they were making a serious
inquiry, right, I could easily make

640
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:59,000
a list of books and it wouldn't
be a long list. It would not

641
00:51:59,079 --> 00:52:02,639
be long. Would probably be fewer
than ten books that I would recommend,

642
00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:07,000
and they would just have to they
would just have to read them, you

643
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,719
know, or at least parts of
them. Because again, this whole attention

644
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:14,000
span thing that that scares me,
you know, because if you're not paying

645
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,519
attention, you can be manipulated.
And then god, you even remember,

646
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,159
well, what were the actual steps
involved in my manipulation? And you know,

647
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,519
myself, I'm constantly backtracking, Like
if I see a comment about,

648
00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:30,039
well, you know, about a
UFO siting, I'll read I'll read them

649
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:35,840
all. Like a good example is
Jack Brewer's website, the UFO Trail will

650
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,559
because he gets he gets skeptics all
the time, and then he'll also get

651
00:52:38,599 --> 00:52:43,440
someone saying, oh, you know, Brewer, you're just saying this because

652
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,519
you know you don't you don't ever
want to believe in that the UFOs can

653
00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:50,760
be extraterrest real and you know,
through his credit, Jack will say,

654
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,079
well, I no, I don't
want to believe that. I want to

655
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:57,280
I want to find out what's actually
going on. If it turns out that

656
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,079
they are extraterrestrial, fine, let's
hope that we don't all, you know,

657
00:53:01,199 --> 00:53:07,119
panic and crack up. But the
old the old cases are still important

658
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,719
and some of them have fallen apart, some of them havn't. And it's

659
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,880
it's not I don't think it's good
when younger people get impatient with there all

660
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,480
these old cases. Who cares well, because that's where all the stuff now

661
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:27,199
and people's attitudes toward it originated.
That's why there's still important. M Yeah,

662
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,360
yeah, a very good point.
Um, you know Roswell, we

663
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,199
always talk about Roswell. We probably
talked about that a million times on the

664
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,880
show. Um, yeah, it's
not going away. Yeah, that's that's

665
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,880
that's not going away. And you
know, many many people think, you

666
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,559
know, there has been an explanation
that has nothing to do with UFOs.

667
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:50,039
I'm not convinced. You know.
Mother thing I always fall back on is

668
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:54,480
um and listeners make get tired of
me saying this, But um, there

669
00:53:54,599 --> 00:54:00,119
was never any reason at all for
the Army Air Force at the time to

670
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:02,599
come out with the press release that
they caught a flying disc. There was

671
00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:08,599
no reason at all that they had
to say that part of it. I

672
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:14,960
agree nineteen forty seven. Think you
know that that's easily lost. That was

673
00:54:15,039 --> 00:54:20,119
a long long time ago, not
not even remotely like this world, you

674
00:54:20,159 --> 00:54:22,960
know, especially media wise. You're
right, they had no reason like why

675
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:29,360
that specific thing. And you know, I'm not going to be labor because

676
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,039
you're aware of all this stuff as
much as I am that you know,

677
00:54:32,079 --> 00:54:37,039
if that was some psy ops you
know, psychological operation, why that,

678
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,199
you know, it wouldn't even be
like all, we're trying to prepare for

679
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:45,760
an alien invasion. It was too
that wasn't even on people's in people's minds,

680
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:52,239
including the military, right right,
No, No, it's a it's

681
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:58,239
it's really something. And you know, uh, you know, I had

682
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:02,519
I think it was the Seth Shostack
on recently and he talked about the Mogul

683
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,079
and I understand, you know,
of course they would not want to talk

684
00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:13,960
about that in particular, but still
that there was absolutely no excuse. In

685
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,760
my book, I'm sorry mob the
weather balloons yeah. Yeah. But also

686
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,639
there was that mogul that had to
do with a listening device for a Russian

687
00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:29,639
UM, the autom bomb tech.
Yeah right, so I don't know,

688
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,159
picking up sounds in the upper atmosphere, right right, yeah, exactly.

689
00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:39,039
But anyway, we are about in
just a minute here, we're ready to

690
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:43,599
go into a minute or two,
we're ready to go into a break,

691
00:55:43,639 --> 00:55:47,000
and then when we come back a
little bit into the show, UM,

692
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,280
we will be taking calls on a
different number, not our normal number,

693
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,440
just one thing before we go into
break. It's kind of a loose,

694
00:55:57,519 --> 00:56:02,800
loose break when we go into it
here. Okay, the UM earthlike planets

695
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:12,880
UM that have been discovered, even
in the last several years. Do you

696
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:19,440
think that UM gives more credibility to
I don't know, credibility is the right

697
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:25,920
word for it, more of UM
a chance that there's intelligent life out there.

698
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,719
I do think it add credibility is
you know, that's an okay word

699
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,880
in my opinion. Again, we
have to be clear on that, like,

700
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,880
well, who will who else's opinion
would it be? Right? But

701
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:44,320
anyhow, UM, Yeah, I've
I'm really I've been in an amateur astronomer

702
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:49,000
since I was like eighteen years old
building telescope stuff. So that's a huge,

703
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:52,159
huge interest to me. Um,
and I really yeah, I do

704
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:57,760
think finding these extrasolar you know,
earthlike planets, it adds easily to the

705
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,480
possibility that we're not alone because you
know, it's it's and I'm not even

706
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:05,840
joking, what a waste of space
if we're the only ones in the universe,

707
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:10,119
right yeah, yeah, yeah,
um yeah, I think it's I

708
00:57:10,119 --> 00:57:15,360
think personally you know that it's it's
very possible. I just don't know,

709
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,760
uh, you know what I mean, I just don't know if we'll ever

710
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,920
find out. I don't know if
if we are actually being visited by intelligence,

711
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,559
if that's actually what it is or
part of what it is. Um.

712
00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:36,199
You know, I guess I could
understand why they're avoiding us, but

713
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,000
it's still if they're paying close attention. And why wouldn't they if they discovered

714
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:45,639
other life, especially our type,
right right? Um, you know I

715
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:50,679
have heard people say something along the
lines it would be like us talking to

716
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,719
answer there'd be no real reason for
it, um, and that you know,

717
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:58,320
there could be that much more intelligent
and um, you know that is

718
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,119
that is all these things are possible. Yeah, I can't. I can't

719
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:07,000
disagree with that. Right, the
gap, the intelligence gamp would have to

720
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:13,000
be a massive if they have the
tech to get here exactly, especially crossing

721
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,920
the amount of space that has to
be crossed. All right, we're ready

722
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,760
to go into a break, so
hang in everyone, we'll be right back.

723
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,159
Just be just one minute or two. We'll be right back right after

724
00:58:24,639 --> 00:58:35,840
these messages. All right, here
we are. We are back with Bill

725
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:40,719
Grobowski. Bill, welcome back to
the show. Well, thanks, good

726
00:58:40,719 --> 00:58:45,719
to be here. And we have
not talked too much about your book again.

727
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,760
Can you throw the title out there? Yeah, the title is black

728
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:58,320
Light Perspectives on Mysterious Phenomena. And
the reason it's called black Light has nothing

729
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,679
to do with the object the black
light. Um. And maybe maybe I

730
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:07,280
was being a little a little punish, trying to be a little bit funny,

731
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,360
where whereas you know a lot of
them, a lot of the so

732
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:15,000
called knowledge about UFOs and and paranormal
phenomena, you know, comes from the

733
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:20,320
so called black world, the secret
world. And uh so that was why

734
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,760
I titled it down, like maybe
maybe I can shed some light, um,

735
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,559
you know, black operations and stuff. So That's why I called it

736
00:59:25,639 --> 00:59:32,599
black Light UM. And then the
sub title is probably more important because I

737
00:59:32,639 --> 00:59:36,960
wanted to be clear that that every
chapter in the book, these these are

738
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:43,079
just these are perspectives about, Okay, what could UFOs be? You know,

739
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:46,599
what could a poltergeist be? Not
here, here's what I think it

740
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,719
is. And you better believe that, you know, if this is true,

741
00:59:50,719 --> 00:59:53,800
because I'm telling you it's It's based
on a survey of you know,

742
00:59:54,079 --> 01:00:00,199
very skeptical people. It's based on
surveys of of people who as it will

743
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:01,880
be our believers, and they will
not, you know, they don't want

744
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,719
to hear otherwise. And then also
people who are who are in between,

745
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,880
like well, I'm not sure,
you know, I would probably have to

746
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:14,079
see it, you know, see
a UFO right before me, and maybe

747
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:16,159
even then I still wouldn't think it
was extraterrestrial. You know, there's a

748
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,480
lot of it's based on how people
feel about these things. Is based on

749
01:00:21,679 --> 01:00:27,400
their I guess what the psychologists would
call your chronic emotional state. If you're

750
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,920
anxiety written, you're going to have
bad experiences. If you're a believer in

751
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:36,519
the paranormal and UFOs, you're probably
gonna have bad experiences, and then someone

752
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:39,360
else who is who is like,
let's just say a really solid, you

753
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:43,840
know, low anxiety person. They
could see something and say, well,

754
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:45,400
you know what, that's really strange. I don't know what that is,

755
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:52,000
but it doesn't frighten me. So
they're you know, there are the whole

756
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:55,159
the fields. As you mentioned earlier, there's a lot of divisiveness, and

757
01:00:55,559 --> 01:01:00,840
even if there was no Internet,
it's still would be that way. It

758
01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:02,360
was, it was that way in
the you know, in the sixties and

759
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:10,239
in the seventies and even before that, right, right, um, well

760
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:16,480
it is it it really, it
really is interesting. You know, as

761
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:22,920
my my son has said before,
you know, whatever these things are,

762
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:29,760
whether it's a UFO or whether it's
uh an encounter with what people think is

763
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:36,480
a ghost, there's an answer for
every single thing that happens. But it's

764
01:01:36,519 --> 01:01:39,679
just that sometimes we don't know what
that answer is, right, and what

765
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:45,039
seems to be happening now. Um. I also covered this in the book,

766
01:01:45,239 --> 01:01:49,719
is that the chapter the chapter is
called so what And you know,

767
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,400
it sounds like a little a little
snarky, but I'm serious, like,

768
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:58,760
so what what if UFO inter directs
the terrestrial? What if you know there

769
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:04,119
are actual you know, lingering,
uh, consciousness from from people who have

770
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:08,440
died. What what what difference will
that make to our lives? And as

771
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,760
I just mentioned, well it depends
on the individual. Some people actually will

772
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,920
not care if they found out UFOs
extraterrestrial. Well does that mean I don't

773
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:20,719
have to go to work tomorrow?
You know? Probably no, Probably you

774
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,960
still have to go to work.
And you a question of well now and

775
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:28,760
that if they were proved to be
extraterrestrial UFOs that is okay, Well they

776
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,320
went up to the individual to decide
how do I, how do I proceed

777
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:35,960
from this point on? What do
I do? Or do I just ignore

778
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:42,440
it? M? And and and
what do you think? Like this is

779
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:47,360
society how we handle something like that? Well, how do you think we

780
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:53,159
would handle it? I don't know. I think I'm kind of frightened.

781
01:02:53,199 --> 01:02:58,119
Like as I just mentioned, Okay, right, if we have let's say,

782
01:02:58,119 --> 01:03:01,119
a definitive proof that you know,
there's an example, let's just say

783
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:07,760
an an unusual object was tracked as
has happened, you know, I turned

784
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,360
out to be an asteroid or something
about was tracked, which it would be

785
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:16,280
because if you know, everything communications
satellites, classified satellites. They're tracking everything.

786
01:03:16,599 --> 01:03:22,000
If there's any kind of airspace infrusion
or atmospheric entry, whatever you want

787
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,280
to call it, it's going to
be tracked. It's going to be a

788
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:29,760
record. And if a genuine UFO
is tracked, I mean I've I have

789
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,440
no idea of what the what the
official reaction would be, because you can't

790
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,159
hide it. You can't hide it
anymore. There are people who are just

791
01:03:36,239 --> 01:03:39,840
amateurs, you know, have the
ability to tap in the communications satellites,

792
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:44,760
and you know you can't. You
can't hide it anymore. So there it

793
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,079
would be noticed, whether there was
official acknowledgement or not. And then the

794
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:52,519
reaction I think it would it would
be like a literal a raw shack ink

795
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:57,079
blot test. Depending on what kind
of a person you are, people be

796
01:03:57,239 --> 01:04:02,400
Some people would panic, but I
think most would be amazed and then realize,

797
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,159
well, I still have to live. I'm still me, you know,

798
01:04:05,239 --> 01:04:08,880
I'm still alive, and I've only
got so much time to live.

799
01:04:09,559 --> 01:04:13,119
Yeah, yeah, I agree with
you. I think that's I think that's

800
01:04:13,159 --> 01:04:15,800
what would happen. I think,
you know, there may be a pause

801
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:21,079
and reflection and then I'll move on
like you say, Um, you know,

802
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,079
I do think there would. I
think there would be a big pause

803
01:04:25,119 --> 01:04:30,599
really because the initial reaction I think
possibly with almost everyone, it's going to

804
01:04:30,639 --> 01:04:36,559
be they're going to be frightened some
some certainly um you know, whether they're

805
01:04:36,639 --> 01:04:43,360
predatorial or you know, um,
that would be the whole thing. I

806
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:48,320
remember watching The Twilight Zone and I
can't remember the exact episode, but it

807
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:57,800
was a spaceship landed and this really
tall robot or something came out and everybody

808
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,760
was getting off board the ship and
there was a book they were trying to

809
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:10,519
crack the code to and the book
was given to um, someone you know,

810
01:05:10,599 --> 01:05:15,079
a leader or something like that,
and yeah, it was how to

811
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:21,199
serve Man end up being a recipe
cook that. I love that episode scared

812
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:30,960
interrupting. I was like pretty much
raised on the original Twilights. I remember

813
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,719
that scared the heck out of me
as a kid. It scared me too,

814
01:05:35,199 --> 01:05:39,920
I was I'm kind of amazed I
was allowed to watch that yeah show

815
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,880
at all. Yeah, because I
was pretty young when the original series came

816
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:47,679
out, like early sixties, right
right. Um, But I think they're

817
01:05:48,239 --> 01:05:54,119
of course, you know, I
mean, it's all about what their possible

818
01:05:54,159 --> 01:05:57,880
intentions are. I mean, you
could speculate all you want um, of

819
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,840
course, but if they've been if
it's actually what we're seeing here or some

820
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,119
of what we're seeing here, so
far, so good is what I have

821
01:06:05,199 --> 01:06:10,800
to say. Yeah, we've been
around a long time, and I'm thinking,

822
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,159
like I used to pay closer attachment
to how far our very first,

823
01:06:15,239 --> 01:06:20,639
you know, let's just call it
broadcast signals have traveled in space, you

824
01:06:20,719 --> 01:06:25,800
know, because let's let's just say
we've been active with electromagnativity since like what

825
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:30,079
the late eighteen hundreds. I'm thinking
like alex Alexander Graham Bell and going all

826
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:34,119
the way back, right, and
those emanations are in space, so they've

827
01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:38,880
been out there are you know,
one hundred plus years, So therefore they've

828
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,679
traveled you know, the speed of
light whatever. And then that signal's gone

829
01:06:42,719 --> 01:06:45,920
so far and that's as far as
it can go, and then you've you've

830
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,000
got the whole Well, how far
away is the nearest star, Well,

831
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:53,960
it's four light years Alpha Centauri.
I think it's the closest one not not

832
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:59,639
not a sun type star. But
depending on what sort of life is there,

833
01:06:59,719 --> 01:07:01,400
if any, that might not matter, you know, you go back

834
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:08,400
to the holding. Could be Silicon
based, right, yeah, amazing.

835
01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:13,119
So we will take calls. If
someone wants to call in, it's going

836
01:07:13,199 --> 01:07:15,760
to be our old call in number. Because we're not live on KGr A,

837
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,039
we do not have a screener,
so you'll be coming into the show

838
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:26,239
live, and that call number is
six zero three nine six seven four h

839
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:30,800
three zero, and anyone can call. As a matter of fact, I'm

840
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,320
going to say this, the first
person to call in right now we'll get

841
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:41,679
a free T shirt. If you're
looking on let me see, if you're

842
01:07:41,679 --> 01:07:46,039
looking on YouTube, that's just right
here, podcast you a fol T shirt.

843
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,840
So that number six h three nine
six seven four h three zero,

844
01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:55,960
And all I can do is tell
you that I'll save your phone number and

845
01:07:56,119 --> 01:08:00,000
I'll give you a call tomorrow and
make sure you get that that T shirt.

846
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:04,960
M one more time. I'm going
to just show the T shirt images

847
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:12,039
this right here. And we do
have a website where we sell merchandise,

848
01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:16,840
and that's right on podcast ufo dot
com. So all that infos under merchandise

849
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,560
there or the T shirts, coffee
cups, you name it. Anyway,

850
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:27,119
first person to call in gets a
free T shirt. I guess that Roy

851
01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:32,520
Christmas, Well you could always hang
up and call back, right, But

852
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:43,039
anyway, Um, as far as
the future, what do you how do

853
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:46,520
you see the future? And UFOs, you know, everybody talks about disclosure.

854
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,640
I mean, I don't think the
government's going to be actually disclosing personally,

855
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:55,319
I don't think. But what are
your thoughts on all that? Well,

856
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:58,000
I'm an agreement with that. I
don't think there's going to be any

857
01:08:58,039 --> 01:09:00,840
kind of disclosure because as you well
know, there there was a lot of

858
01:09:01,239 --> 01:09:06,359
a lot of talk about that,
um well over the past ten years,

859
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:13,159
sixteen years with that Stephen Greer,
Oh yeah, um, and you know,

860
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:16,279
nothing came to that. And then
you know, again depending on you

861
01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:18,520
know, you know, what kind
of mood you're in. Then um,

862
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:25,640
I'm here, I was hearing like
what is this information you know, designed

863
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:30,840
to manipulate or is this misinformation?
And I was never I was never quite

864
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,560
sure how to how to take that, but I'm always like, well,

865
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:38,279
yeah, I'm wide open for disclosure. Please bring it on. Yeah,

866
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:41,560
Hey, we have a we actually
have a caller. Okay, here,

867
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,640
we have two, we have two. Someone called in. I'm writing down

868
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,479
this number before I bring him in
four. Hang on just a second.

869
01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:53,560
Uh, maybe I didn't Maybe you
didn't come in call. Are you on

870
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:58,720
the line now? Yes, sir, Hi, what's your name? My

871
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,600
name is Ryan from that Carolina?
Hey, Ryan, how are you doing?

872
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:03,399
So we will talk tomorrow. Get
you I'll get you a T shirt.

873
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,279
We have someone else trying to call
at the same time, but you

874
01:10:06,319 --> 01:10:11,760
beat everyone out. Oh great,
Well, I gotta admit the T shirt

875
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:16,720
was a huge renovation. Way to
go, Ryan. So Ryan, Um,

876
01:10:17,279 --> 01:10:20,680
I'm going to try to write down
your number here. I can't.

877
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,479
Oh, I got it. I
got it. Okay, all right,

878
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,439
I got it. So I'll give
you a ring tomorrow and we'll settle up

879
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,199
with that. And so do you
have a do you actually have a question

880
01:10:30,279 --> 01:10:32,800
or you want to wish us all
merry Christmas? You have a question for

881
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,840
our guest? Well, um,
let me see. Yeah, first of

882
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:40,119
all, do you want to wish
everyone a merry Christmas? Of course?

883
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:44,399
And uh, I wanted to it
tuned in late. He may have already

884
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:48,399
talked about this. I know you
guys were talking over the old cases before.

885
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:54,159
As it tuned in, I just
wanted to ask his thoughts own a

886
01:10:54,279 --> 01:10:59,840
very old case Roswell. I know
you had mentioned you had mentioned your wondering

887
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:04,000
why you know the Army released that
statement. My opinion is because Marcel kind

888
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:08,720
of influenced people to do it.
But anyway, I just wanted to catch

889
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:13,399
his thoughts on it, unless he
has already given those thoughts. No,

890
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:17,319
I haven't really answered that question.
By the way, I haven't really gotten

891
01:11:17,399 --> 01:11:21,520
into that. And the thing is, like you know, human evolution in

892
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:29,239
general, I keep I'm changing my
thoughts on Roswell, not toward I don't

893
01:11:29,239 --> 01:11:33,000
know necessarily like they was said earlier, like extraterrestrial Is that the explanation?

894
01:11:33,159 --> 01:11:38,680
Well, you know it could be. And then I either I had the

895
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:43,000
good or bad luck to read this. This giant book by Annie Jacobs called

896
01:11:43,039 --> 01:11:46,880
Area fifty one, and she you
know, so you're somebody or at that

897
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:50,039
book, right, Martin and maybe
Brian. I don't know if you are

898
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:56,560
or not. But the person who
wrote that book, a respected journalist named

899
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:01,239
Annie Jacobson, and she said that
she interview guys you know from the from

900
01:12:01,239 --> 01:12:04,600
the old school, right, who
know, from Area fifty one. They

901
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:10,680
were saying, No, it was
a it was a Russian psychological opts because

902
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:15,960
we went because inside the craft there
was cyrillic writing in there, cyrillic being

903
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,199
you know, Russian language. And
the first thing I thought was, Okay,

904
01:12:18,239 --> 01:12:21,800
if this was supposed to be a
psychological you know, trying to fake

905
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:27,399
people out just to see how they'd
react, why the heck would you would

906
01:12:27,399 --> 01:12:30,560
you like basically sign your name in
there and say no, this is from

907
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,479
this is from you know, a
different biosphere, this is from outer space.

908
01:12:34,159 --> 01:12:39,039
So that that didn't hang well with
me that explanation for Roswell and this

909
01:12:39,199 --> 01:12:43,199
Annie Jacobson is saying, well,
this is what she got that story from

910
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,039
from people who actually worked in Area
fifty one, And then I was just

911
01:12:46,079 --> 01:12:50,479
like, man, they really played
you. So it's but to get back

912
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:56,239
to your question, um, personally, I have no idea what happened there

913
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,119
for a long time, and in
my book black Light, Um I was

914
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:04,039
saying Roswell had had there been some
kind of uh just stick an experiment that

915
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:10,159
went wrong, because supposedly a lot
of people died after you know, the

916
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:14,199
the nineteen forty seven incidents. So
then I was thinking like, well,

917
01:13:14,279 --> 01:13:17,079
was it a German warfare thing gone
wrong? And the only way to cover

918
01:13:17,159 --> 01:13:20,840
it up was to make it even
scarier by saying it was a crashed flying

919
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,199
saucer. Right, So that's that's
what I was doing for for a long

920
01:13:25,239 --> 01:13:29,439
time. Now I'm now I'm not
really sure, except that something definitely happened.

921
01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:33,840
Yeah, you know, I've kind
of become a skeptic of roswell over

922
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:38,920
the years. And one thing that
occurred to me at one point is why

923
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,600
would the American government conceal it?
And I'll tell you why they prop why

924
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,840
they In my opinion, I don't
know that they actually would. And here's

925
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,439
why. If you remember the year
before, um well excuse me, a

926
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:58,960
year later, the Stalin Blockade of
Berlin, and you apparently apparently he wasn't

927
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:04,119
intimidated by our monopoly on the atomic
bomb. Well, if he wasn't intimidated

928
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:06,520
by that, I mean, wouldn't
you want to send him a message?

929
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,720
You know, hey, Bud,
not only do we have a first rate

930
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:14,720
military, a monopoly only atomic bomb, by the way, we also have

931
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:18,000
alien technology. Uh. You know, do you really want to mess with

932
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:21,119
us? Do you want to you
want to keep pulling these stunts? And

933
01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:27,720
and I just I'm glad that you
brought that up, because that's that's the

934
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:31,319
thing right there that I was forgetting. Now, if if Americas made that

935
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:35,720
claim, hey we have extraterrestrial technology, pale, you do not message that.

936
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:41,039
I mean, what more reason do
you need? Right? Yeah?

937
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:45,159
Yeah, I mean he would probably
they probably they probably run right back to

938
01:14:45,239 --> 01:14:47,680
Russia after the least. You hope
they would, at the very least,

939
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:50,760
they at the very least they wouldn't
be pulling the I mean, Korea may

940
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,920
have never happened. I mean,
you know, either, I don't know

941
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,680
how many. I don't know what
he would have thought about pulling after say,

942
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:00,159
after knowing that. Plus we had
a monopoly on wom bombs up at

943
01:15:00,239 --> 01:15:04,880
least until forty nine. Yeah,
and then you would have to the Americans

944
01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:08,079
have to be seen in themselves.
Well, we better hope they don't call

945
01:15:08,119 --> 01:15:11,479
our bluff because we don't have alien
technology, if you know, if that

946
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:15,800
was actually the case. But if
if it actually was an alien crash,

947
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:20,119
you'd want to you don't want to
keep tilting those scales because they had to

948
01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:24,239
be thinking. They had to be
thinking themselves. Well, look, you

949
01:15:24,279 --> 01:15:28,279
know, I mean they likely got
into the Manhattan Project. They'll get they'll

950
01:15:28,279 --> 01:15:30,279
find out about this eventually. Anyway, I mean, so you know,

951
01:15:30,399 --> 01:15:34,560
let's let's let's let's go ahead and
tell them and basically send them aself.

952
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:39,039
I mean, a lot of people
think the atomic bombings of here Shima,

953
01:15:39,119 --> 01:15:43,960
Nagasaki were done as kind of a
show of force to the Russians and basically

954
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,680
say, you know, look,
you know we don't hesitate to get out

955
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:48,560
the big stuff. Well, you
know, if you're into sending a message,

956
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:55,039
that's one message I would send them
me personally. Yeah, that's right.

957
01:15:55,119 --> 01:15:57,560
That's an undeniable show of force,
so to speak. You know,

958
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:03,439
you cannot mess with them. Interesting
topic anything else here, Ryan, that's

959
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,600
well. Also, I'll just make
it easier for you if you want to

960
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:13,479
just email me right now at Martinette
Podcast UFO dot com. We'll get you

961
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,640
a T shirt. Okay, thank
you sir, All right, thanks Ryan,

962
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:21,479
Yeah, thanks for the call.
So that line is open and I'll

963
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:27,520
probably feel generous enough to give out
another T shirt if someone would like to

964
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,760
call in. Um So that is
six h three nine sixty seven four h

965
01:16:32,279 --> 01:16:41,359
three zero And now, interesting point, I've never ever thought of the subject

966
01:16:41,359 --> 01:16:47,119
that you know, Ryan brought up
as never thought of a show of a

967
01:16:47,239 --> 01:16:53,920
force, a show of power of
reverse technology or anything like that. Um,

968
01:16:54,039 --> 01:16:59,600
so we do have another caller coming
on here. Interesting topic. Caller.

969
01:17:00,119 --> 01:17:05,199
What's your name and where are you
calling from? First name? Color?

970
01:17:05,279 --> 01:17:11,199
Can you hear us? I see
a caller, but I'm not hearing

971
01:17:11,239 --> 01:17:17,439
them. Hello caller, all right, Uh, maybe they dropped off here.

972
01:17:18,359 --> 01:17:23,279
So that line again once again is
open six h three nine sixty seven

973
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:29,119
four h three zero h It says
miscall strange. I don't know how that

974
01:17:29,199 --> 01:17:33,720
happened. I picked it up.
Try calling back, and but no,

975
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:40,520
that is a that is an interesting
take on that whole situation. I would

976
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,800
have never thought of that. It
is. And another part of that,

977
01:17:45,119 --> 01:17:46,680
or I guess the part of it
is. You know, let's say that

978
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,880
there was you know, there was
an actual crash of an extra trust to

979
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:55,640
a vehicle. Would we be able
to like reverse engineer in nineteen forty seven

980
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:59,000
or even now? I know a
chance this would be better now, but

981
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:02,680
back then I could. It's like
unimaginable. Um, you know, I've

982
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:09,760
heard people liking it to going back
to um the Civil War with a iPhone

983
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:14,039
and so I knocked yourself out.
Um, yeah, here you go.

984
01:18:14,319 --> 01:18:18,800
Yeah, you could easily say this
came from our planet and in civil war,

985
01:18:19,039 --> 01:18:23,600
I would say, I believe you. Yeah, you don't know what

986
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:26,640
this thing is. Yeah, that's
right. Um. You know I had

987
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:31,800
doctor Michael masters On uh several months
ago, I think three, three or

988
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:38,279
four months ago, and his thought
was that it's a possibility. Um.

989
01:18:38,319 --> 01:18:43,640
He was an anthropologist and a professor
or anything. He was thinking that it's

990
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:48,760
possible, with how evolution is going, that we may be looking at us

991
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:53,720
in the future time travelers. And
I thought, wow, what another what

992
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:59,359
another fascinating Oh yeah right, yeah, that's that's coming in from a completely

993
01:18:59,359 --> 01:19:02,840
different direct which which which could be
equally frightening, you know, yeah,

994
01:19:03,039 --> 01:19:05,880
because that's been played up big time, and you know in science fiction,

995
01:19:06,119 --> 01:19:11,760
in literature and in the movies,
where we could be like completely unrecognizable to

996
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:15,680
ourselves and you know, whatever survivors
are some horrible environmental thing gone wrong or

997
01:19:16,279 --> 01:19:20,800
or whatever. Well, I don't
if we turn into grace, I certainly

998
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:28,359
don't think we've become more attractive in
my opinion, and that's generally what evolution

999
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,199
seems to have done. Um,
So I don't know. He did have

1000
01:19:32,279 --> 01:19:36,760
answers for things like the gray pigmentation
and everything, which was. It was

1001
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:42,279
pretty amazing. Did he cover I
didn't actually hear that, did he cover?

1002
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,640
Like? Well, in far future, since we would we would be

1003
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:49,840
like I'm discussing here, like we'd
be more sedentary. Therefore we have less

1004
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:55,680
musclature in the legs and you know, our heads would grow because because of

1005
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,640
you know, we're using them or
March would be trapped in the mind and

1006
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,560
using the body less. That is
a really a good point that never came

1007
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:08,319
up. But uh, you know, that's that's the way we're headed.

1008
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:12,239
Um. You know, with technology, you know, less things we have

1009
01:20:12,279 --> 01:20:15,399
to do, and you know,
more time glued to a screen of who

1010
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:18,760
knows what it will be in the
future. I may actually have first first

1011
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:23,119
read that that particular theory, if
you want to call it, the speculation

1012
01:20:23,159 --> 01:20:28,199
from Willy Streeber when he's questioning himself
in a communion like what could they be?

1013
01:20:28,279 --> 01:20:30,920
And I think he brought it up
like, well what if what if

1014
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,000
there us from some unimaginable future and
this is why the Grays looked this way.

1015
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:40,600
It's interesting, Yeah, yeah,
it is. Who knows that?

1016
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,960
So that line, no, the
caller tried to call in um and we

1017
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,119
still have a t shirt to give
away six oh three nine six seven four

1018
01:20:47,359 --> 01:20:57,840
h three oz you'd like to call
in And as far as um the military

1019
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,520
technology, so you you're you talked
about it, the possibility of some type

1020
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:09,079
of drone M Do you think that
the military is the secret projects are so

1021
01:21:09,199 --> 01:21:15,039
advanced, so much more advanced than
we know of or can imagine, And

1022
01:21:15,119 --> 01:21:20,039
if so, why aren't we using
it as wartime you know, threats Again,

1023
01:21:20,079 --> 01:21:25,560
like you said, the power of
threats if we have that's a damn

1024
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:30,640
good point. Um. I think
that I don't know if it's generally accepted,

1025
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:32,600
and it may even be a cliche
at this point, but personally I

1026
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:39,960
happen to accept it is that the
military technology appears to be about fifteen years

1027
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:45,760
ahead of what we actually you know, see publicly. And I think this

1028
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:51,039
just proved that with the F one
seventeen stealth fighter. When that was released

1029
01:21:51,399 --> 01:21:55,319
or you know, revealed if you
want to say, in nineteen eighty three,

1030
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,199
it was a lot of people were
shocked by that. They were startled.

1031
01:21:58,359 --> 01:22:00,920
I know I was, I was
like, this, what is this

1032
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,359
thing? And then to learn that
they've been developing it since uh, you

1033
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:09,279
know, long long before. I
mean in fact, in that the Area

1034
01:22:09,359 --> 01:22:14,880
fifty one book I mentioned, there
are photographs of prototypes and when you like

1035
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:24,000
the XR seventy one Blackbird, the
long pointy ship supersonic or even hypersonic that

1036
01:22:24,079 --> 01:22:29,039
was on the drawing boards like in
the late fifties, like incredibly advanced looking.

1037
01:22:29,239 --> 01:22:31,760
In fact, it still is even
though it's been retired. It's an

1038
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:35,560
incredibly advanced looking aircraft. It was
in development a long time ago. And

1039
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:41,439
see these these photos and so long
ago, like wow, it's it's startling,

1040
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:46,520
like we're like literally science fictional looking
incredible. I'm trying to take this

1041
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:53,880
caller, call are you there?
Doesn't seem to be picking the same person's

1042
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:58,319
trying to call in and just not
seem to be picking them up. Call

1043
01:22:58,359 --> 01:23:04,279
are you there? Can Harrison caller. I have no idea why this's not

1044
01:23:04,399 --> 01:23:13,840
working. And next week is going
to be the same thing because we have

1045
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,159
to oh, by the way,
for the listeners next week. Yeah,

1046
01:23:17,159 --> 01:23:20,760
I see the caller try to get
in. I try to take him,

1047
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:26,399
and it wouldn't It wouldn't work.
I could just say, if you're listening,

1048
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:30,840
try try again. Next week.
Our show is going to be at

1049
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,560
the same time. But it's going
to be on Sunday night, um,

1050
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:38,039
you know, ahead of New Year's
Eve, So that would be on YouTube

1051
01:23:38,079 --> 01:23:45,640
once again Sunday night, six to
eight pm Eastern Standard time, and that's

1052
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,399
going to be about Star Trek.
It's totally off the UFO topic, but

1053
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:54,800
it should be a lot of fun. So um. Anyway, Bill,

1054
01:23:55,800 --> 01:24:02,760
So as far as what do you
consider it's the most curious UFO case out

1055
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:10,399
there that you've looked into. Well, um, I don't know most curious,

1056
01:24:11,079 --> 01:24:14,399
but one's still in my head all
the time because I think I once

1057
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:16,560
had a fighting. I was so
called. They're just called referred to as

1058
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:20,359
black triangles these days. Oh yes, or are they have been for a

1059
01:24:20,359 --> 01:24:26,920
while since the I first heard about
them during the report of the Hudson Valley

1060
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:32,600
River sighting. Oh yeah, Philip
and Brogno, who unfortunately has I don't

1061
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:36,039
know not he has not taken seriously
anymore because it was found out that he

1062
01:24:36,119 --> 01:24:43,079
I think he faked some educational credits
or something like that. But anyway,

1063
01:24:43,079 --> 01:24:46,880
he was co author of the book
I think it's called Night Siege the Hudson

1064
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:54,960
River Hudson Valleys Sightings, and that
that Um, I had a sighting of

1065
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:58,079
what I thought, and I still
think this that it was. It was

1066
01:24:58,079 --> 01:25:01,720
a triangular shaped vehicle and it was
dark. I saw it at night.

1067
01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:06,439
I had white lights in a triangular
pattern, and it didn't make a lot

1068
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:10,359
of noise, and that you know, I was interested in UFOs at this

1069
01:25:10,399 --> 01:25:14,760
point, and this was in the
early nineties, and I was standing there

1070
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,479
looking at it, and right at
that point asking myself that this can't be

1071
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:24,359
happening. What am I actually looking
at and what I eventually this is what

1072
01:25:24,399 --> 01:25:28,319
I still telling myself, and I
think it's probably what I saw. I

1073
01:25:29,279 --> 01:25:31,800
was living then in Cleveland, near
Cleveland, Ohio, right and my job

1074
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:38,520
was was nearby and not too far
away, maybe half an hour away by

1075
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:42,560
car was Acron, Ohio, where
the good Year blimp comes from. And

1076
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:45,960
I just I still think it was
probably I was seeing some weird light arrangement

1077
01:25:46,239 --> 01:25:50,039
on, you know, a dirigible
on a blimp that could possibly the good

1078
01:25:50,079 --> 01:25:55,319
Year a blimp because you know,
it comes out of Acron. Was this

1079
01:25:55,520 --> 01:26:00,640
like moving lights or was it the
study light? These these were moving and

1080
01:26:00,119 --> 01:26:05,760
it was a rainy night, so
I you know, it was right there.

1081
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:09,880
There was some confusion because on a
rainy night, you can't see.

1082
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:12,920
I mean, you know, if
off a jet aircraft flew over, you

1083
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:16,159
would know what it was because you
would hear it. And I don't recall

1084
01:26:16,239 --> 01:26:19,600
hearing any sound at all, but
I did see lights, and that really

1085
01:26:20,239 --> 01:26:25,119
it threw me. And it also
put a bolt of frightened to me because

1086
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:28,680
I'm thinking, like, right away, my emotions are going toward holy you

1087
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:32,960
know, sah, I t I'm
looking at an unidentified flying object. I

1088
01:26:33,039 --> 01:26:35,880
have to be because I couldn't hear
it, And then it slowly came to

1089
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:40,520
me it's got to be a derigible. But the thing is, if you've

1090
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:45,439
seen a blimp fly over you you
can hear that engine. It sounds like

1091
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,119
a lawnmower. And in this case, I didn't really hear anything. I

1092
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:55,039
just saw white lights in that pattern, and I wasn't what the place I

1093
01:26:55,119 --> 01:26:59,920
was working yet. I was like
the night computer operator were doing the nightly

1094
01:27:00,079 --> 01:27:02,199
back up. There was no noise, you know, like traffic noise or

1095
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:05,880
anything to cover it up, So
I you know, that was a genuine

1096
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:09,279
unknown to me, and I don't
really know what I saw. I'm just

1097
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:13,520
I'm just thinking it almost had to
be like you know, some sort of

1098
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:18,000
a dirigible or you know, the
unspeakable wall. Maybe it wasn't actual you

1099
01:27:18,039 --> 01:27:25,119
know, extraterrestrial craft or for a
while I was leaning toward the classified military

1100
01:27:25,159 --> 01:27:28,960
craft, but they seem to be
you know, but why would they test

1101
01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:35,479
something potentially really dangerous or a populated
area because they're liable? Right now,

1102
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,960
what what type of rainy night was
it? Was it heavy rain? Was

1103
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:44,359
it light rain? It was it
was drizzly, it was a it was

1104
01:27:44,399 --> 01:27:46,920
a like I was humid. I
think it was like Joe. I think

1105
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,199
it was July. It was a
humid, rainy night. The reason I

1106
01:27:50,279 --> 01:27:54,760
bring that up this, uh,
you know, I maybe totally off on

1107
01:27:54,800 --> 01:28:00,600
this, but I would think that
usually the blunt wise around in neither events

1108
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,720
or events where there's a chance of
a lot of people seeing you know,

1109
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:08,560
advertising or whatever it is, the
lights are showing, and so I was

1110
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:12,039
just thinking, on a rainy night, um you know, it's less of

1111
01:28:12,079 --> 01:28:15,600
a chance that you actually see something
like a blimp out there. Yeah.

1112
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,560
I couldn't agree more. And I
also know that, umus, this is

1113
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:24,119
another like a kind of an enthusiast
enthusiasm of mind. Since a kid,

1114
01:28:24,159 --> 01:28:28,640
I love seeing blimps because we were
always seeing them flying over our town being

1115
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:32,359
so near Akron, because they were
flying from from Goodyear up to the Cleveland

1116
01:28:32,359 --> 01:28:38,479
Stadium for baseball games and stuff and
football games for coverage, you know,

1117
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,840
camera coverage, and um. One
time, one actually there there was an

1118
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:45,920
abandoned airfield across the street from where
I grew up on. One actually came

1119
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,239
down there one day and we all
ran over there and it was like,

1120
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:51,520
you know when you're when you're a
ten or eleven year old kid, You're

1121
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,720
like, oh my god, I
can't believe this. This is great.

1122
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:58,079
And they had apparently they had some
kind of a problem. They had to

1123
01:28:58,159 --> 01:29:02,159
land and it wasn't there long,
but we were all over there. So

1124
01:29:02,399 --> 01:29:05,479
seeing that on a rainy night,
yeah, it was not there. Whatever

1125
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:10,479
it was, it was not there
a cover of sports thing, right,

1126
01:29:11,239 --> 01:29:15,600
That's yeah, that's for sure.
It's funny. I was talking just several

1127
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:18,560
years ago. I was walking with
my son and Boston, and I saw

1128
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:20,960
this blimp, you know, coming
over the trees, and I thought,

1129
01:29:21,079 --> 01:29:25,199
I'm going to get a picture of
this. And you know a lot of

1130
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:29,960
people will talk about, oh,
well, why didn't you get that picture

1131
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:33,680
of the UFO. Um, you
know, everyone's walking around with the iPhone

1132
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:39,119
and camera, so I can't believe
that as slow as a blimp goes,

1133
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:44,560
by the time I got my camera
ready, it was gone. I was

1134
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,039
gone, So I didn't even have
a chance to take a picture of the

1135
01:29:47,079 --> 01:29:51,920
blimp. Right, right, that's
an awesome sighted thing. Like, well,

1136
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:55,680
okay, everybody has cameras, blah
blah blah, why are we not

1137
01:29:55,800 --> 01:30:00,600
seeing better pictures? Well it's a
good question why and and like you just

1138
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:02,720
proved it. Well, okay,
there's a difference between saying, Okay,

1139
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:06,399
I'm gonna always have my phone on
me and I'm gonna be ready when I

1140
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:10,560
see something I can't describe, right, and then when you go through the

1141
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:14,800
actual motions, it's not going to
be like you think or like it's like

1142
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:17,600
you're watching a movie. You're going
to be a human being looking at something

1143
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,399
that you're not sure what it is. Is it a terrorist thing, is

1144
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:27,199
it is it extra threshal? You're
going to be feeling some disease. Yeah,

1145
01:30:27,319 --> 01:30:32,439
I mentioned this too before when I
actually had a UFO sighting that kind

1146
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:35,279
of got me interested in this top
the world did get me interested in this

1147
01:30:35,359 --> 01:30:39,800
topic, but anyway. I don't
know if I would have. I didn't

1148
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:43,399
have my phone on me at the
time or anything like that, but I

1149
01:30:43,399 --> 01:30:46,359
don't think I would have even thought
to take a picture because I was just

1150
01:30:46,399 --> 01:30:50,880
so lost in the moment and so
baffled why there was again, there was

1151
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:55,880
no noise like you talked about,
and I was totally baffled, like how

1152
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:59,000
can something move without making any noise? You know? I mean that just

1153
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:03,600
uh, I would have probably not
taken a picture of Ada cameras when I'm

1154
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:08,920
getting at and yeah, and you
know what, in view of that,

1155
01:31:09,319 --> 01:31:12,319
I've gone as far as okay,
like let's say I'm aware there's a jet

1156
01:31:12,319 --> 01:31:15,279
aircraft crossing over and it's one of
those it's really really high up like five

1157
01:31:15,399 --> 01:31:18,920
or six miles, you know,
thirty or forty thousand. If y'all stand

1158
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:23,680
there and look at it, I
won't hear anything. But then you do.

1159
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:26,800
You do eventually hear it if you're
paying attention. Once it crosses your

1160
01:31:27,039 --> 01:31:30,720
once the sound reaches you, you
do hear it. It's it's quiet,

1161
01:31:30,159 --> 01:31:34,960
but but something of that size,
you know, imagine taking that down,

1162
01:31:35,319 --> 01:31:41,439
you know, tens of thousands of
feet, you'd really hear it in the

1163
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:45,079
fact that you know, the thing
that I saw, you know, was

1164
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:47,760
it couldn't have been more than several
hundred feet off the ground, and I

1165
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:51,439
heard nothing. And I have to
say that I was really fightening by it.

1166
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:55,239
I stole, don't know what it
was. But I didn't jump to

1167
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:59,439
you know, oh it's it's extraterrestrial. But you know, like we said

1168
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,880
earlier, I can't possibly you know, be intellectually honest and say, you

1169
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:08,119
know, it can never be you
know, extra trust you, because it

1170
01:32:08,119 --> 01:32:11,399
could have been. I you know, I'm just personally I'm thinking, well,

1171
01:32:11,399 --> 01:32:13,279
no, it wasn't. It's just
but I don't know what it was,

1172
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:19,439
right, right. Have you ever
looked into cases like the Rendels from

1173
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:26,000
Forest any of that. Oh yeah, yeah, that's another interesting thing that

1174
01:32:26,199 --> 01:32:29,640
you know, it's often uh,
you know, dumped on for all that

1175
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,960
was psychological opts. People were being
tested and calibrated, and you know,

1176
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,439
when you read all the viewpoints,
and just to be clear, I've probably

1177
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:42,199
read everything that can be about that
about Rendelshrom and you're getting this, you

1178
01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:44,960
know, some of the people who
were actually there saying I think it was

1179
01:32:45,239 --> 01:32:47,399
I think it was a test,
and then other other souldiers are saying,

1180
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:50,600
no, no, I was in
that forest and you know, tears that

1181
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:55,600
I saw and it wasn't a you
know, it wasn't a lighthouse. I

1182
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:59,439
saw an actual you know, vehicle
on the ground. And then you know

1183
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:04,800
they're described having the weird light light
effects. You know, all I can

1184
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:10,920
say about that case is it's fascinating
and it strikes me as really unusual that

1185
01:33:11,039 --> 01:33:15,479
that took place. Was it was
actually on the base of very near it

1186
01:33:15,039 --> 01:33:21,960
that that's suspicious to me. It
still is right right outside of uh left

1187
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:28,720
at Eastgate, left at east Gate, right right, But it's yeah,

1188
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:32,159
that that is a puzzling one.
And you know, when I've talked personally

1189
01:33:32,199 --> 01:33:38,319
to you know, a few people, um that was involved in that,

1190
01:33:38,399 --> 01:33:45,079
and you know, Charles Halt his
story about the thing looking like an eyeball,

1191
01:33:45,079 --> 01:33:50,119
that's the uh you know, like
bouncing between the trees, you know,

1192
01:33:50,199 --> 01:33:55,439
going along and like molten lava dripping
from it. That's what it looked

1193
01:33:55,439 --> 01:33:58,680
like. By the way, they
were never able to find any of that,

1194
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:02,760
like trace evidences of that, and
then it bursting into five lights and

1195
01:34:03,079 --> 01:34:06,560
you know, events disappearing. That's
what struck me kind of kind of like

1196
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:11,399
a prismatic you know, it's likely
he just kind of like a bursting like

1197
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,199
wow, it's too bad, No
one tour, No, it's caught that

1198
01:34:14,279 --> 01:34:17,399
on any kind of film. Yeah, And that's I told him an encounter

1199
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:24,079
of a friend of mine who had
uh I was in the in the fine

1200
01:34:24,119 --> 01:34:30,600
arts and antiques business. This gentleman's
actually on the antiques road show um on

1201
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:33,079
almost all of them. And he
told me of an encounter he had were

1202
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:39,520
an object looked like a box and
then it burst into five lights right in

1203
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:44,279
front of his eyes, you know, I mean his reaction to that,

1204
01:34:44,319 --> 01:34:48,920
though there's no big deal, like
didn't change his life any you know.

1205
01:34:49,039 --> 01:34:53,159
And those are the most that's the
most. Those are the most interesting sort

1206
01:34:53,199 --> 01:34:56,760
of you know, witnesses for lack
of a better word, where it's just

1207
01:34:56,960 --> 01:35:00,760
described because you're probably getting an accurate
descript if the person isn't freaking out,

1208
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:04,359
and they weren't freaked out, they're
probably describing what they actually saw. And

1209
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:08,960
that that's that's what still puzzles me, is like, well, you don't

1210
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:13,079
know what it was, And I
guess that's what keeps me going, is

1211
01:35:13,079 --> 01:35:16,800
this intense curiosity, even even though
I'm not a believer. I just want

1212
01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:23,000
to know what's going on right right, And yeah, just to follow up

1213
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:28,199
on that, a military jet was
flying toward that when it had burst into

1214
01:35:28,279 --> 01:35:31,159
lights too. You know, really
it had a lot of things going for

1215
01:35:31,239 --> 01:35:35,319
it. It was at Amherst College
back in the early nineteen eighties when that

1216
01:35:35,359 --> 01:35:41,319
happened, with a bunch of witnesses
who was right there at the college itself.

1217
01:35:42,199 --> 01:35:46,119
So um, yeah, anyway it
is. It keeps me going too.

1218
01:35:46,199 --> 01:35:51,840
And I like the fact that you
talk about, um, the word

1219
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:58,239
believe because a lot of people talk
about that word when it comes to you

1220
01:35:58,319 --> 01:36:02,479
know, UFOs, the thoughts and
beliefs and things like that do they do.

1221
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:09,319
It's almost a default reaction. Yeah, yeah, I mean I've had

1222
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,920
I don't know if this has happened
to you in the public talking to someone,

1223
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:15,039
but they'll say something along the lines
were, so you actually believe in

1224
01:36:15,159 --> 01:36:18,720
UFOs And you know what, what
do you say when someone actually says that

1225
01:36:19,039 --> 01:36:24,439
that to you? What do I
say? Pretty much what we talked about

1226
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:27,479
earlier, like, no, I
don't believe in UFOs, but I do

1227
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,199
accept that there are anomalous things in
the skies and we're not sure what they

1228
01:36:31,239 --> 01:36:34,880
are, but we probably can find
out if we do the work. But

1229
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:40,520
that doesn't explain that doesn't explain away
everything, because you know, the thing

1230
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:43,920
isn't This is something I mentioned in
the forthcoming book, Cold World, is

1231
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,079
that we're trapped in our own you
know, we're trapped in our bodies.

1232
01:36:46,119 --> 01:36:49,840
We're trapped in a certain viewpoint.
We can't get out of it. So

1233
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:55,279
it's going to color everything we see, including UFOs and so called ghosts.

1234
01:36:56,159 --> 01:37:00,159
And that's I mean, I hope
I'm not that long winded when I talk

1235
01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:02,640
to people, because um, I
do get asked, well, you believe

1236
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,840
in UFOs, and like, well, it's it's undeniable. People see stuff

1237
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,359
and they don't know what it is, and that's that's as far as they

1238
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:12,119
go. I So you have to
do the work. You have to be

1239
01:37:12,359 --> 01:37:18,680
you know, scientific about it,
right right? Um? And speaking of

1240
01:37:18,720 --> 01:37:25,399
science, Um, science runs from
this topic for the most part. Do

1241
01:37:25,439 --> 01:37:29,560
you think that will ever change?
Uh? You know what, it's not

1242
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:32,680
useful. And then this was pointed
out decades ago that that attitude is not

1243
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:36,840
useful. And it's it's almost as
though, like you know, like the

1244
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:42,159
more absurd things that seemed to happen, like like when people used to report

1245
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:46,800
UFO entities, you know, bizarre
looking creatures like wrapped in plastic and they

1246
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:51,600
came right out of science fiction.
It's almost as though the absurdity of that

1247
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:58,800
is used against against people reporting things
and because because then you can be discredited.

1248
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:03,399
You like, you saw what you
saw? What that makes no sense?

1249
01:38:03,439 --> 01:38:06,479
That's just not how reality works.
But the thing is we don't know

1250
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:14,279
how reality works exactly exactly. That's
very true. Yeah, I've said a

1251
01:38:14,359 --> 01:38:17,199
number of times, you know,
I've had a number of people from the

1252
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:23,279
Rendelsson force on this show over the
years. Um, it's the most convoluted

1253
01:38:23,359 --> 01:38:30,760
case out there when it really is, and it comes to um, you

1254
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:35,920
know what different people's point of view. I mean there's uh, you know

1255
01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:43,560
where John Burrows thinks he had missing
time but he's not sure. And someone

1256
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:49,119
saw something that looked like an entity
entity. Um, you know there's all

1257
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:56,079
that, And there were a scattered
entity reports. I forgot about that.

1258
01:38:56,279 --> 01:39:01,640
Yeah, and then the beams going
down to the webping weapons most likely nuclear

1259
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:06,000
weapons. I guess pretty well known
there were nuclear weapons. I remember asking

1260
01:39:06,079 --> 01:39:12,159
Charles Halt that and he got offended
that I would ask him a classified question.

1261
01:39:14,239 --> 01:39:15,520
I have to ask him, Martin, is that is that still archives

1262
01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:20,319
the Halt interview? Oh yes,
oh yeah, yeah he's spent on a

1263
01:39:20,399 --> 01:39:25,399
few times. Yeah, okay,
man, I've got to hear that,

1264
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:29,880
yeah or those Yeah, No,
that's I think the best part of that

1265
01:39:30,319 --> 01:39:35,239
case is the audio recording that he
had running. He had the recorder running

1266
01:39:35,239 --> 01:39:41,760
the whole time there, and anybody
can find that on YouTube. He said

1267
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:45,800
that he was really surprised when that
actually came out, you know, many

1268
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:49,159
years ago he had the audio.
I think I have heard that audio.

1269
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:53,840
Yeah, and it basically says it's
coming at us, or he says something

1270
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:57,199
like he's coming at us or something
like that, and then talks about when

1271
01:39:57,239 --> 01:40:01,039
the light shoots down right by his
feet. And he's described that light as

1272
01:40:01,079 --> 01:40:05,640
not like a regular beam, a
regular beam of light. It's like a

1273
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:10,920
almost like a tube of light within
itself or something. It's pretty strange.

1274
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:15,319
And I've heard that other people have
talked about beams of light that are just

1275
01:40:15,399 --> 01:40:18,800
totally different than a normal light beam. I've heard that. I've heard that

1276
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:23,479
too, like where it's it's almost
it's more like a like a plasma of

1277
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:29,760
than a beam, a particle beam. Right, Yeah, it's all,

1278
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:32,399
it's all. Uh, it's all
really interesting. And again, like you

1279
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:35,159
just said a few minutes ago,
it keeps me going. You know,

1280
01:40:35,199 --> 01:40:41,960
the whole were work. We just
passed our eighth year anniversary a few weeks

1281
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:46,880
ago, and it's just, uh, I can't believe it's been that long

1282
01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:53,399
I've been doing the show. But
it's it's just fascinating to just to hear

1283
01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:59,279
different things that have happened that are
unexplained and whether they ever will be explained

1284
01:40:59,399 --> 01:41:02,560
or not. I have no idea. Well, I certainly don't, but

1285
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:08,680
I think what can explain the popularity
of your podcast UFO is that you're you

1286
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:12,960
do give people. You're going across
a spectrum of people. You're not just

1287
01:41:13,199 --> 01:41:15,560
you know, you're not waiting it
down on one side where you know,

1288
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:18,079
for instance, you're not constantly saying, oh, this can't be real,

1289
01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:23,119
this can't be real. And you're
also not you know, too hot on.

1290
01:41:24,279 --> 01:41:28,079
You're you're not talking up too much
the whole beliefs thing like you must

1291
01:41:28,079 --> 01:41:33,000
believe in as you're genuinely exploring and
curious about it. Yeah, I would

1292
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:38,439
say thank you, and that's right, I am going to offer one more

1293
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:42,039
time that poor guy that keeps trying
to call and his calls and go through.

1294
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:45,560
Get that guy in there. Yeah, try calling again A six h

1295
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:51,880
three nine sixty seven four h three
zero. I just got a text from

1296
01:41:51,920 --> 01:42:02,760
my good friend Alejandro, and I
don't know if it has to do with

1297
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:06,560
the show or not. I'll read
it in a minute, but anyway,

1298
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:11,720
that line is open. Feel free
to call in and you will get yourself

1299
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:15,640
a free T shirt six h three
nine six seven four h three zero.

1300
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:23,079
And I'm also going to ask if
anyone wants to post any questions up in

1301
01:42:23,119 --> 01:42:29,439
the chat room. We've got about
five more minutes. Okay. All Alejandro

1302
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:32,800
was saying is that he said for
me to say Baham bugged everyone, but

1303
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:38,840
I didn't say that, And he
just texts saying, when you do your

1304
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:42,279
shows, say hey, Merry Christmas
to everyone. So Alejandro says Merry Christmas

1305
01:42:42,279 --> 01:42:45,279
to everyone out there. Alejandro Rojas
has been on this show for I don't

1306
01:42:45,279 --> 01:42:50,399
know five or six years, something
like four or five years anyway, doing

1307
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:56,279
the UFO updates, and he's had
a few changes in his life and has

1308
01:42:56,319 --> 01:43:00,279
been moving and hasn't been on for
about a month now, so we hope

1309
01:43:00,319 --> 01:43:04,079
to get him back. I'm not
sure if one hundred doesn't come back,

1310
01:43:04,119 --> 01:43:08,960
what I'm going to do? Okay, same caller is trying again. Cross

1311
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:16,119
your fingers, caller, can you
hear us? Caller? Caller, I

1312
01:43:16,199 --> 01:43:21,000
have no idea why that's not working. I think what I'm going to do.

1313
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:25,520
I'm going to see if I can
catch his number. I'm going to

1314
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:32,319
try to see if I could call
him. And I'm not sure what he's

1315
01:43:32,319 --> 01:43:35,000
calling from, but I know it's
the same number trying to call, and

1316
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:40,079
anyway, I don't want to waste
airtime on that. I will probably just

1317
01:43:40,119 --> 01:43:44,359
try to call him after the show
and get him that T shirt. I

1318
01:43:44,359 --> 01:43:47,199
will tell you, a caller,
why don't you do this? I could

1319
01:43:47,239 --> 01:43:50,960
see your number briefly. I see
that you're calling from New York. It

1320
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:56,479
looks like a New York City number. Give me an email at Martin at

1321
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:00,840
podcast ufo dot com, and I
will will set you up with that T

1322
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:03,800
shirt. Hopefully you had a really
good question for our guests. I think

1323
01:44:05,439 --> 01:44:10,520
I think we're about at the end
of our show here. Now, when

1324
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:13,119
do you expect your next book to
come out? You say, it's a

1325
01:44:13,119 --> 01:44:17,600
book in progress right now, um, if looking like summer twenty nineteen,

1326
01:44:19,199 --> 01:44:23,680
and and the name is that's the
working title, that's going to be the

1327
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:30,960
title of the book, but the
full title is Cold World, The Horror

1328
01:44:30,960 --> 01:44:34,560
of the Real and by the Horror
of the Real, And I mean basically,

1329
01:44:34,600 --> 01:44:40,159
like excuse me, reality is stripped
down to it to its basic structures,

1330
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:45,079
like like things things in the actual
world and the way we respond to

1331
01:44:45,119 --> 01:44:50,119
them are it can be deeply disturbing, as disturbing as any UFO thing.

1332
01:44:50,159 --> 01:44:54,079
I guess I'm trying. I'm trying
to show the genuine strangeness of the real

1333
01:44:54,119 --> 01:44:59,199
world in this book. Do you
mean and looking looking okay? Do you

1334
01:44:59,199 --> 01:45:04,399
mean also like natural phenomena too,
or just unexplained things? Yes, yes,

1335
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:10,039
as also natural phenomena, mystic strangeness
of that, like things things like

1336
01:45:10,119 --> 01:45:15,000
tornadoes and you know that's that's an
entire topic on someone right there. Storms

1337
01:45:15,119 --> 01:45:19,640
and how strange some of the strange
things that can happen during a storm,

1338
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:25,000
right Um, yeah, I know, there's like earthquake, lights and uh,

1339
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:30,359
you know, there's just all kinds
of very strange things that I have

1340
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:35,239
that people just don't have. Any
idea what they are. I mean,

1341
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:42,279
they were saying UFOs, but they're
they're just basically, um, probably a

1342
01:45:42,359 --> 01:45:46,359
natural phenomena. Right. I think
michaels Or I think wrote a book about

1343
01:45:46,359 --> 01:45:54,960
those earthquake lights. Yeah, Canadian, I think he is right? Right,

1344
01:45:55,119 --> 01:45:58,319
really interesting? All that? All
right? Well, excellent, Well,

1345
01:45:58,359 --> 01:46:01,680
thanks so much. Bill, it's
been a real pleasure. You're welcome.

1346
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:03,920
It has been a pleasure, Martin. I'm glad. I'm glad we

1347
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:08,199
finally got to speak. That's right, all right, and you have yourself

1348
01:46:08,199 --> 01:46:12,199
a nice Christmas, you two.
Thank you very much. All right,

1349
01:46:12,359 --> 01:46:17,680
good night, now, good night, okay everyone, Well that's it for

1350
01:46:18,119 --> 01:46:23,000
the show. Now next week it's
going to be Monday, I'm sorry,

1351
01:46:23,039 --> 01:46:29,439
Sunday night because of the New Year
holiday, and we are going to have

1352
01:46:29,560 --> 01:46:41,119
Mark Cushman on and Vic mcnogna and
they are gonna be talking about basically it

1353
01:46:41,159 --> 01:46:47,399
has to do with Star Trek and
Vic is also he plays Captain Kirk on

1354
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:54,680
the new Star Trek continues. He's
going to be also on the show together,

1355
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:58,920
so that should be interesting. And
if you want to check out podcast

1356
01:46:59,039 --> 01:47:05,479
ufo dot com, you can see
the membership. The membership you can listen

1357
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:12,359
to the full two hour shows for
free in your media player or log in

1358
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:17,359
to listen that way as well.
You can also support us on Patreon and

1359
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:21,399
you can also see we have t
shirts on all kinds of things with a

1360
01:47:21,479 --> 01:47:29,920
new podcast UFO logo graphic on that
nicely done by Diane cash Out in Oregon.

1361
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:36,560
And I think that's about it.
Don't forget to check out our Facebook

1362
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:43,560
page. It's podcast UFO Live shows
over at Facebook, so go ahead and

1363
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:45,720
check that out. We have shows, I mean, we have news up

1364
01:47:45,720 --> 01:47:49,279
there every day posted by Peggy,
and I want to thank everyone that helps

1365
01:47:49,319 --> 01:47:55,920
out with the show, and that
includes Evan, that includes Peggy Keith over

1366
01:47:55,960 --> 01:48:01,439
at the Dark Matter Digital Network,
Race over at KGr Radio, Alejandro hopefully

1367
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:06,239
he'll come back. If not,
we'll figure something out for the news coming

1368
01:48:06,319 --> 01:48:12,119
up eventually. And I do want
to thank you once again, and Merry

1369
01:48:12,199 --> 01:48:16,560
Christmas to all those who celebrate.
And remember, if you're keeping your eyes

1370
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:21,479
to the sky, you may just
see Santa but anyway up with his reindeer

1371
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:25,920
up there, but anyway, keep
your eyes to the sky and talk to

1372
01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:26,479
you next week.