WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:07.400 I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis, And this is safe word. Safe 2 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:11.519 word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here 3 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.720 to support you, we're telling you the details on our own sex lives, 4 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:19.079 relationships, identities, and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy, 5 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:22.920 but we are sex therapists and what you hear today makesite you. Each week 6 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:26.519 we tackle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender, and more. 7 00:00:27.000 --> 00:01:10.280 This week we're diving into the theme orgasms. Orgasms, orgasms. Everybody's always 8 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.159 wants to talk about orgasms. I feel like, what does this bring up 9 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:19.120 for you? Or any personal updates do you have for me? Okay, 10 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:23.680 I'll tell you the first thing that comes to mind right now. So Mal 11 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.319 and I've been living together for almost a year now and we've kind of moved 12 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.680 out of this phase where sex is happening multiple times a week. Yeah, 13 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:36.040 we're in this once a week rhythm, but I like to have more than 14 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:38.719 one orgasm a week. So I think during new relationship energy, I was 15 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.920 not masturbating at all because whenever I wanted sex, there was sex. Now 16 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:47.560 I'm in this place where i'm like sometimes too tired for sex, but not 17 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:52.840 too tired for orgasms, so reintroducing masturbation into my life. But then there 18 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:57.719 was this question that is totally internalized shame, not imposed by mal That's like, 19 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.000 am I allowed to do this? Where should I do this? Should 20 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:05.000 I tell her when I do this? And we've been I think working through 21 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:09.159 a little bit of like, Okay, our values say totally good, no 22 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:13.879 issue at all, but our stomachs are like, wait a second, why 23 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:15.360 didn't you tell me you were horny? I would have had sex with you? 24 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:20.000 Or like I'm somebody that has a hard time orgasming more than once in 25 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.599 a day. So if I've already had an orgasm and then she wants to 26 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:25.639 have sex, she'll be super disappointed that I've already had an orgasm, not 27 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:30.039 from like a logical place, but from a place of like, wait a 28 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:32.080 second, that's for me, which we know isn't true. So I think 29 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:37.319 we are both on a journey around like masturbating in the same house when we're 30 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.599 turned on but don't want to have sex with each other, and undoing some 31 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:46.840 of that like internalized I don't even know it's it's shame, it's possessiveness, 32 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:51.960 it's monoga normativity, it's all that purity culture shit, and so letting our 33 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:57.080 stomach catch up with our brains around orgasming not together in this stage of our 34 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:05.719 relationship. It's very interesting and I feel like timely for this episode, but 35 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.439 makes a lot of sense that you're adjusting to new rhythms and how to care 36 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:13.919 for yourselves and each other in you know, living together in a different dynamic 37 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:22.439 and changes from NRI to pri permanent relationship, relationship energy. That's what engagement 38 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:30.520 is. Yeah, Yeah, it's I'm trying to practice turning my jealousy into 39 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:35.199 arousal, which is like more intuitive than you would think, at least for 40 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.800 me. I've realized so much. At the time I think I'm jealous, 41 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:40.719 I'm actually turned on, but interpreting it as a jealousy. So now when 42 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:45.719 she says like, I, you know I masquerated earlier, I'm trying to 43 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.439 let my jealousy turn into arousal. Let's see where that takes me. So 44 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:53.479 stay tuned. Oh, I like this approse, I'm going to steal that 45 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:58.319 too. Yeah, tell me about you and orgasms lately. I really have 46 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:08.319 no idea where you are me and orgasms lately. I don't know. I 47 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:12.560 guess I had to think about it. I mean, I masturbate pretty frequently, 48 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:16.240 and that's like my main in general, my main source of orgasms, 49 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:21.959 and so even with part even with partner sex, which I think that this 50 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.800 will probably come up a lot during the episode, but yeah, I think 51 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:29.560 that that's kind of like where I am recently. But when I saw this 52 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:31.319 topic, I was thinking about, have you ever had sex on a water 53 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:38.160 bed? No? I was thinking back to this time when I was having 54 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:44.240 sex with this person and I hadn't really had a lot of orgasm, Like 55 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.360 my partnered orgasms were pretty far and few between. But I don't know if 56 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:53.920 it was this person or this bed, but I was orgasming very frequently because 57 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:58.000 I know how hard it is see you with partners so hard. Damn. 58 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.959 I wonder, like, have you ever tried to orgasm with a partner in 59 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.120 like a bath or a hot tub orpo I wonder if there's something about like 60 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:13.720 the fluidity motion to relax, the being back in the womb like feeling. 61 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.680 No, Yeah, I I've had like sex and a hot tub before. 62 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:24.240 Um. I don't really like baths. I think they're kind of disgusting. 63 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:29.120 So we're gonna find about this, Like I know it's I know it's a 64 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:32.600 hot tub, and you're trying to tell me that baths a gross Yeah I 65 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:35.519 can't accept that. Yeah, I can't accept Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't. 66 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:40.680 You shouldn't. And and it's like I will take baths like in a 67 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:46.319 hotel. But I do know, I know, I know, but it's 68 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.000 not though, Oh you don't know who's been taking a bath in that bath? 69 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:55.040 I don't, I don't, but I like, I don't know what 70 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:58.199 it is it is and I'm like, I know, like shower before the 71 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:00.759 bath, so you're like clean in the bathroom. No, I don't want 72 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:06.959 to audience. Send us your opinions about send your opinions. Well do you 73 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:14.399 take baths and where and how? Why? But I love showers and I 74 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:16.600 love every other type of water. I mean that's water sign energy, you 75 00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:19.240 know, the vibes I do. I don't think I've ever orgasmed in the 76 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:23.920 water before. But now I have homework. You have homework. I work 77 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:30.439 on the water bed. Try the water water, Okay, I want to 78 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:35.279 have multiple orgasms. How can I explore if this is possible? Or accept 79 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:43.720 that it may not be. I like this question mostly because maybe I have 80 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:48.600 a similar question for myself. I've never really experienced it, and I know 81 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:54.000 a lot of my friends will talk about having rolling orgasms or multiple orgasms, 82 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.319 and I'm like, what is that like? And I think I've been like 83 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.399 trying to be like, oh, okay, what would that be like for 84 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:05.879 me? But I mostly feels it's so hard because, for example, like 85 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:11.519 for me with masturbation, I usually masturbate in my bed at night before I'm 86 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.439 going to sleep, and I feel like that's a challenging place to play with 87 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.000 it because then I'm like cool one and done. And it's hard for me 88 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:24.399 because I usually masturbate with porn and then I'm just like, okay, well 89 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:27.800 turn it off, put put the phone down, and put the vibrator down 90 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.680 and go to bed. And I've been trying to be like, imagine what 91 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:34.160 it would be like to have an orgasm and then have I don't know if 92 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:38.680 it is called like the refractory period, and then to get horny again, 93 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.959 And I've just never been able to like, all, so are you for 94 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.920 do you feel immediately less horny after your orgasm? I think that's common I 95 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:51.959 think that's pretty common. Yeah, yeah, I think, especially like by 96 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.519 myself, Like sometimes I'll be like, oh wow, that was really great, 97 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.439 But typically it's if I'm doing it late, I'm like a great way 98 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.279 to just send me to my sleep, and so then I'm just like cool, 99 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.920 I'm not interested. Even I will try sometimes to like maybe watch a 100 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:11.360 different clip or something if I'm watching porn, and then I'm just saying, 101 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.839 yeah, I'm good. So I don't know. I think I want to 102 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:22.600 try to be intentional about like just experiencing or experimenting rather like what my body 103 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:26.959 can do. And I think that for me that might be trying to do 104 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:30.319 this more during the day or during a day when I don't have a lot 105 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:35.080 going on or something like that. So that would be kind of like my 106 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.639 suggestion is, like, what do you notice happens with you after you're having 107 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.519 that initial organs context and what is the goal about? Yeah? You know, 108 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.120 like what is the goal? Because you just are curious or do you 109 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:54.039 feel like you that's something that you should be able to do. Yeah. 110 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.120 I like the piece about contacts because I feel very fortunate to be somebody that 111 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:03.720 like, when I'm asked I can have nine orgasms without an issue. Damn 112 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.480 not immediately, but like within a span of an hour. Let's say, 113 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.600 yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I feel like I would 114 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:18.960 literally I love it pass out. Well. I love that you bring up 115 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:24.279 context, because I totally the number one time I use masturbation is to procrastinate. 116 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.279 If I'm doing something and I don't feel like it, I'll be like, 117 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:30.360 oh, maybe just like a little orgasm will reset me. But then 118 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:31.519 I'm like, yeah, I still don't want to do that thing, so 119 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.559 I'll just keep orgasming, So maybe it's not it before ben and do it 120 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.519 to distract yourself from something you really hate doing. Okay, I don't think 121 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.720 this is a real advice, but that's what works for me. I think 122 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.720 the other thing is when I the first time I realized I could do this, 123 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.000 I had like a five hour gap with nothing to do. I was 124 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:54.519 just laying in bed, I was watching TV, and I just kept using 125 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.720 my vibrator and I kept orgasming. And I think what worked about that is 126 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.519 there was no pressure, there was no goal from the outset. I had 127 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.200 a ton of time and space. I was like watching TV during this, 128 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.879 I'm not I was just literally letting my body take as long as it needed, 129 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.279 and that's what worked for me. I think like, if you're trying 130 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:18.080 to orgasm one right after another, give yourself a you know, a twenty 131 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:22.279 minute break bench Gray's Anatomy, and do it once an episode. See what 132 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.519 happens. I don't know, but I like this part about like maybe I 133 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:30.519 just need to accept that this isn't my body because yeah, if you've if 134 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:33.559 you've tried for a long time and it's not happening, then yeah, maybe 135 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.399 you're maybe you're not somebody who can orgasm more than once within a given time 136 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.080 frame and that there's no deficit there. Okay, yeah, it doesn't matter. 137 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:45.960 Yeah, And I think that the time component too, is like when 138 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.240 you're talking about multiple orgasms, is it like in a day, in an 139 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:54.519 hour in one kind of like session with your partners, like back to back, 140 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.000 Like how are you measuring that? And I do not have multiple orgasms 141 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.480 with a partner. I should put that out there too. That is like 142 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:07.320 a solo thing only, so context really does matter. Yeah, all right, 143 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:11.679 next question, why do I struggle to orgasm with a partner when it 144 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.159 takes seconds when I masturbate? Yeah, exactly, what we were just saying. 145 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.759 Yeah, I just think the context is completely different on a number of 146 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.480 levels. First, often the way we're touching ourselves when we're masturbating is different 147 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.799 from the way a partner touches us. Whether maybe you use your hands and 148 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.440 maybe your partner also uses their hands, but the way you use your hands 149 00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:31.039 as different. Often, when we're masturbating, we give ourselves more time and 150 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.919 there's not the added pressure of somebody being present who we project onto. We 151 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.600 have all sorts of projections onto our partner as well, we are trying to 152 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:41.600 orgasm. That projection could be I'm taking up too much space, I'm taking 153 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.320 too long, they're not really attracted to me, they don't like what they're 154 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.120 doing right now. That kind of gets taken off the table. Doesn't mean 155 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.559 there aren't also anxious thoughts while you're masturbating, but typically the experience of being 156 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:58.679 seen the performance anxiety is more absent. And then also, as we've talked 157 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:03.159 about, when you're using toys, when you're using a high frequency vibrator when 158 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:05.639 you're alone, and then you're expecting your partner's tongue to do the same thing. 159 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.519 You know, we have an expectation issue. But anyway back to you, 160 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:15.720 what do you think? Um, I think you summed it up really 161 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:20.320 perfectly, and you know, that's very much my experience. I think it 162 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.879 really it depends, you know, and I think that sometimes you might feel 163 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:30.000 less pressure or you might feel really present with somebody and it is challenging. 164 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:35.080 It's challenging, and I think, especially like for folks with volvas, it 165 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.120 can be a different conversation, but also not exclusively, and I think that 166 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:45.320 the lack of pressure. I was once with a guy and I was like, 167 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.480 yeah, I don't like come but with partners, but this is going 168 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:50.480 to be fine. He was like, no, you're going to and I 169 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:52.799 was like I appreciated like the commitment, but it was like I was also 170 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.200 like and I was like really like young about early twenties, and I was 171 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:58.559 like yeah, but I like, I don't want this to be like this 172 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:03.720 goal, like why just be like doing whatever types of tricks and like fingers 173 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.360 and tongues type things like did you do it yet? And then I was 174 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:09.879 like, well, now I'm really not going to be able to do. 175 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.360 But I think that when there's less pressure and then it's just like this is 176 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.679 still sex, then I feel like I'm most likely to have an orgasm, 177 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:22.360 and it's really surprising. I think that I go in knowing that it's something 178 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.159 that I don't expect, and then a nice little bonus when it happens. 179 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.240 Yeah, and I'm like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 180 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.159 what's about to happen? What's about to happen? And then I'm like, 181 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:37.360 wow, great, but I don't go into a feeling preemptive disappointment if it 182 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.200 doesn't. Yeah. I feel like you can always also tell the difference between 183 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:46.159 a new sexual partner that's like, you will orgasm because my ego can't handle 184 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.120 it, and I will conquer this. I will be the one and only, 185 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.080 and the difference between that and somebody that's like, hey, like cool 186 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.879 if you don't, but like I really want to try, Like I'm here 187 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:58.679 for it. I'm here for the long haul, right, Like that's a 188 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.679 lot l it works for me. But to your point, when mal and 189 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.279 I are having sex and I'm like, I don't it's not going to happen 190 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:07.679 for me this time, She'll be like Okay, totally fine, and then 191 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:13.200 two minutes later, I'll have an orgasm simply because we've agreed that it's Okay 192 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.399 that I don't so I think the like Camille, this is this is this 193 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.600 kind of a skill you've talked about on here before. When you can develop 194 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:24.840 the language to let somebody know, it's unlikely you can set that aside and 195 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:26.879 be present with what is happening, which is all sorts of other wonderful, 196 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:33.879 great feelings. But orgasm is what five seconds of a like multi minute, 197 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:39.200 potentially hour long experience. M M yeah, absolutely, and it's always so 198 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:43.120 interesting. Actually, I was just thinking the last time that I had an 199 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:48.799 orgasm with a partner, my hamstring cramped right after it, like right kind 200 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:54.960 of. I was like, there's a lot of different sensations of like power 201 00:14:54.039 --> 00:15:03.279 through I was like flexing implied right, like oh God, very like total 202 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.200 body situation. I bet they took credit for your screams too, they were 203 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.039 likely they're like congrat right exactly. I was like, I am in pain, 204 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:18.559 God, like, this is me a totally different episode. But I 205 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.039 was thinking the other day about how much people, including myself, power through 206 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.679 pain during sex. Not necessarily I'm not even talking about sexual pain, which 207 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:28.480 we a lot of people power through sexual pain. There's all sorts of reasons 208 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.000 for that. But I'm even just thinking about like as I get older, 209 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.639 my back pain, my like all like this, things that are happenings that 210 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:41.399 age that I'm just trying to like talk myself through and not mention. And 211 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.399 that is a new journey we should do. We should do like this, 212 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.799 not necessarily sex in aging, but things you power through during sex that maybe 213 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.320 you don't have to. Whether it's like, yeah, you know, I've 214 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.000 talked to people who have like tried to power through full panic attacks, Like 215 00:15:54.039 --> 00:16:00.759 what are we doing tower through that shit? Fully, dissociating fully like retraumatized 216 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:07.679 whatever. Yeah, yeah, okay, bookmark cookmarked. Oh, we're running 217 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:15.000 into each other. I know, I love it. We're going to take 218 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.200 a quick break to talk about an amazing show Bedside, and I know it's 219 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.480 amazing because a couple of months ago I was a guest in The conversation is 220 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.799 seriously not to miss questions like how do I have better orgasms, build amazing 221 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.360 relationships? Talking about what does good sex mean? What does that look like 222 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:36.120 in practice? Each week on Bedside, sex educator Tatiana Dells into intimate interviews 223 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:41.159 and explorations around modern day sex, dating, love, and wellness with the 224 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.279 little manifestation sprinkled in there too. Bedside chats with sexperts and wellness thought leaders 225 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:51.120 about the many and unique approaches to sex and pleasure all will keep you curious, 226 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.440 informed, and of course having fun. You can expect topics like friend 227 00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:00.320 breakups, ghosting, tips from sex therapists, and explorations into the inner jetics 228 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.200 around love, partnership, and sexuality. Tune into Bedside wherever podcasts are found, 229 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:10.079 available on all streaming platforms. Bedside is your go to resource for all 230 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:17.160 things good sex. This next person says, I can only seem to orgasm 231 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.680 with a partner if I fantasize and I don't want that. Please help? 232 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:26.799 Oh why not? Why don't you want that? I think I can make 233 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.559 assumptions right, but I don't know. But I think that there can be 234 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.680 a lot of shame with fantasy. And you know, there's a whole Oh, 235 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.079 this person said a different person's name while we were ving sex, and 236 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.079 like there's like, you know, I feel like that's like a R R 237 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.440 and B song that's fucked up, And so we've decided that that's like a 238 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:49.119 terrible thing if you're thinking about anyone or anything else when you're having sex with 239 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:55.079 your partner. I would first interrogate that shame a little bit of like why 240 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.599 not, because I imagine that there's like guilt of like, wow, I 241 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:03.480 just add an orgasm and this is a person that I'm physically with and I 242 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:06.640 was like thinking about and I don't know what the fantasy is, right, 243 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.400 It could be someone else, something else, another time that you've had sex 244 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:14.599 with this person, a fantasy that you have with this person that you're not 245 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:18.240 actively participating in in the moment, a lot of things. So yeah, 246 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.960 I don't know. I'll let you respond and then I'll have more to say. 247 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.559 You go, yeah. I think on top of the stigma that like 248 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:33.359 it's cheating to fantasize about during sex, I think there's also the like fantasizing 249 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.200 isn't being present. If you're really present, you're not fantasizing, And I 250 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.000 totally disagree with that. I think you can be very present and still fantasizing. 251 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:42.720 I think fantasizing is a brilliant thing to do during sex, because, 252 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:48.720 particularly in long term relationships, the context isn't always going to be sexy. 253 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.039 You're you know, your partner maybe hasn't showered in three days, you know, 254 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.480 you've been in the house working together for you know, two years whatever. 255 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.880 There aren't maybe a ton of sex sexy contexts available to you, So 256 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.440 fantasizing is bringing them to you, creating them, right, Like, I 257 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.359 don't need to be in a sexy place to bring the sexy to me through 258 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:14.839 a fantasy and to supercharge this experience through that fantasy. So I'm with you 259 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:18.759 about destigmatizing it. I'm trying to ask myself because I'm somebody that also pretty 260 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.599 much fantasizes every time I have sex. I'm trying to empathize with this person 261 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:29.079 and think, can I understand why that would be painful or scary to only 262 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:33.559 be able to orgasm when you're fantasizing. Yeah, I could understand why that 263 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.680 might bring up doubts, particularly if you know there's a certain person you're fantasizing 264 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.119 about. Maybe it's an ex you're fantasizing about on repeat, or let's say 265 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.200 your partner is one gender and your fantasy circle around another gender. Again, 266 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.319 none of this is bad, but I could empathize with the questions that might 267 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:56.559 bring up for you, and those are probably worth talking about. Does Yeah, 268 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.440 very well said, I think that it makes a lot of sense to 269 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.119 have. Yeah, the fear around like what does this mean? And I 270 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.160 think that we do a lot of meaning making, like what does this say 271 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:12.720 about me? If it's true? And I think you can excuse yourself from 272 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.319 having it have to mean something. And I wonder what do you think about 273 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.160 like if this person were to talk about it with their partner, I wonder 274 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.400 if that just feels really scary. And I can imagine, like my feelings 275 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.839 might be hurt if somebody's like every single time that I've had an orgasm with 276 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:34.319 you, I was thinking about X person, X thing, X position or 277 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:38.599 time. I can imagine feeling hurt by that. I think hurt and then 278 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:45.559 curious, probably rejected and then curious. And maybe there is something that you 279 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:51.240 can ask for from this person that might make you feel more connected to the 280 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:56.079 sex that you're having. But I don't say that too suggest that fantasy means 281 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.839 you're not connected. So that's a complex question. Yeah. I do think 282 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:06.240 if you trust your partner partners, saying it out loud of course as shame 283 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:11.799 decreasing, particularly if your partner partners have education around fantasies. One other thing 284 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.559 I thought of is i'd be curious if there was a theme to these fantasies, 285 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.000 because one thing I learned about myself as I was asking myself these questions 286 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:23.599 is every time I had an orgasm, I wouldn't have to fantasize through sex, 287 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.519 but as soon as I was sort of trying to have an orgasm, 288 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:30.400 I would need to turn on my fantasy brain, and all of my fantasies 289 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:36.240 circled around the pleasure of another person, So I would basically end up getting 290 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:40.920 off imagining somebody else getting off. What I realized about that over time is 291 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.960 it's because I was still and sometimes still am, uncomfortable with centering my own 292 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.880 pleasure. I am a person with a volva who has sex with you know, 293 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.319 my partner has a volva, and there is sometimes a sense like we're 294 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.440 kind of taking turns during sex, so unlike you know the experience of like 295 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:03.359 a penis being in my vagina and orgasming knowing that my partner is experiencing simultaneous 296 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.160 stimulation. It's often that malice is solely focused on meat, which is really 297 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:11.039 it's really hard for me to stay present with that, so I fantasize that 298 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.200 she's also receiving pleasure. Now, she would say, I am receiving pleasure. 299 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.440 I love doing this, but I need something that's a little bit more 300 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.240 concrete. So I would wonder about what maybe the patterns tell you, because 301 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:27.720 maybe it just simply says, you know, there's a barrier to orgasm ng 302 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.359 that your fantasies are helping you cross. Nothing wrong with that, but it 303 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:37.799 could be interesting information. M I like that, very thoughtful, Thank you, 304 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:53.200 you're welcome. Next question, how do I get rid of the shame 305 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:59.599 of coming too early? And then in parentheses also as a vulva owner slash 306 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:04.480 take too long? So coming too early or taking too long? Sounds like 307 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:11.079 it's a question. Yeah, my therapistic answer is to like find the metaphor 308 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.279 in this, when else do you feel like you're taking up too much space, 309 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.599 taking too long, not taking long enough. I feel like, particularly 310 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:23.599 anybody negatively impacted by misogyny has been impacted by this idea that like, you 311 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.799 exist for the service of other people, that yeah, that you shouldn't be 312 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.880 inconvenient. So I think what we're talking about is feeling like you're inconvenient, 313 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:40.519 And I would be looking at other threads to that narrative. Yeah, I 314 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.720 think, and this was when I first started work as a sex therapist. 315 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:51.160 This is one of my favorite things to talk about, especially with folks with 316 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:56.480 penises of like quote premature ejaculation. And I think that there is so much 317 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:03.720 harm that misogyny and talk and toxic masculinity. It acts, and it really 318 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:08.000 it hurts everyone. And I cannot stress that enough. It hurts everybody involved 319 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:12.799 because there's so much shame, especially with people being like, my penis and 320 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:18.920 my ability to do things with it means something about my identity as a person. 321 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:25.599 And so if I'm not able to have this experience or have a prolonged 322 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:30.480 experience with this another you know, like there's songs about that too, like 323 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.759 minute Man, which is you know, the goat Missy Elliott, we love 324 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:37.799 you. But like there are things like that that I think that it feels. 325 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:41.680 It feels scary to imagine that your body isn't cooperating in a way that 326 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.240 you've been told that it just shits, and bodies don't just do that. 327 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:51.759 We don't have like this direct line of communication that's like stay hard or stay 328 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.599 wet, or come now or don't come yet. It doesn't necessarily work like 329 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:57.839 that. But when it does. There's so much shame. There's so much 330 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:03.839 I think identity crises that can result from things like that. So I think 331 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:11.079 that it's like knowing that having comfort to express things about your sexual experiences is 332 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:14.599 going to be the number one thing for a lot of the people that I 333 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.480 would work with. It'd be like talking about it in a way that is 334 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.960 like, this is okay, and this is something that happens, and it 335 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:26.799 doesn't mean anything about you and or your partner surely mean anything about me. 336 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:32.039 Yeah, yeah, I think too. When people have this anxiety, it's 337 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.839 often like come up in some kind of relational context. So for example, 338 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:38.240 it's not just why is it too fast, it's like why is it too 339 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:44.599 fast for her? Or why is it so much earlier than they come because 340 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.240 we want a simultaneous orgasm, or because we're having penetrative sex and this person 341 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.599 hasn't gotten off yet, but this person has, and now we don't know 342 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:53.720 what to do. So I think some of this can be solved with sexual 343 00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.480 creativity. Like if you have an erection and you're having penetrative sex, and 344 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:03.279 you have an orgasm and your partner wants to keep going, stop every metatory 345 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.119 sex oral sex. Yeah, shift around which positions, take a break, 346 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.240 circle back. So I think some creativity can help with this as well. 347 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.640 Absolutely, because it's like, because we link orgasms as a signifier of an 348 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:19.480 end or success that it's like, okay, well, if this happens in 349 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:23.119 sex is over when it doesn't have to be all the other things that you 350 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:30.440 mentioned are sex, and it might lead to more arousal or it might lead 351 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.039 to an erection, and it might not, but it means that you can 352 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:40.559 still be playing together. Agree. This next person says, I'm in need 353 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:44.799 of validation that I can't orgasm with other people instead of reassurance that's someday I 354 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.200 will. Okay, we are here to do that. It is okay to 355 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:53.680 know that you can't or yes with other people, it is okay, it's 356 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:57.839 okay. If you never do, you will still have a beautiful, full 357 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:03.680 life and if you want it, absolutely beautiful full sex life. And I 358 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:08.160 am totally here for accepting that, like this might be your body forever and 359 00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:11.200 figuring out what else your body can do, because it bet it's a lot 360 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:17.920 of other cool things. Absolutely, I think that I can relate to this 361 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:19.599 person being like, well, that won't always be the case, and like 362 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:23.440 you just have to find the rights an annoying answer, yeah, and it's 363 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:27.640 just like, well, like perhaps, but that is absolutely not what I'm 364 00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:33.039 talking about. And again, like it that being the only way or one 365 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.720 of the only main ways that society conceptualizes of good or successful sex is probably 366 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.400 what leads to this, and so it's like that is fine, And for 367 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.720 a lot of my life that was my reality. So I was like, 368 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:48.640 I was like, that's fine. Yep. I was really okay with it. 369 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.640 And I don't understand, like I can't stress this enough. I really 370 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:57.319 enjoy having sex whether or not there's an orgasm, with or without an orgasm, 371 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:04.160 and I've always have. So let's move right into the next question, 372 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.039 because it basically goes along with this, is it okay if no one orgasms, 373 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:10.960 can it still be good? I always thought about sex as transaction, 374 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:14.680 which we're saying, yes, of course it can still be good. We've 375 00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:19.799 i think, also made orgasm a synonym for climax, and I think there 376 00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:23.640 are so many different ways you can experience a climax during sex. It could 377 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.759 be like the moment where there's the most intensity, the moment where there's the 378 00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:32.119 most connection, the moment where you got the loudest, the moment where you 379 00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.240 were in exposition, right, Like, find your own version of that. 380 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.200 It doesn't have to be an orgasm, and find and because we've also made 381 00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:44.680 orgasm synonymous with an ending, find your own ending. What is your ending? 382 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.759 When do you know that you're ready to be done? Because often orgasms 383 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:53.119 aren't that anyway. Yeah, Yeah, I'm wondering if when this person says 384 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:56.680 transactional they mean like me first, thank you, And this is how we 385 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.200 know, because I mean, there's I guess at meanings to that word. 386 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:04.759 But yeah, and I think that it can absolutely still be good. It 387 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:11.079 can be really fulfilling. You might be doing something else or involving a different 388 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:18.480 type of toy or experience or all sorts of things that really bring out different 389 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.440 sensory activation for you, and that means that it can be good. It 390 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:25.880 can feel like a way that you connect with your partner or partners. It 391 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:29.559 can feel just like something that you're doing when you're bored, Like sex can 392 00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.799 feel like a lot of different things, and it can feel good in a 393 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.799 lot of different ways of like, wow, I just tried a position that 394 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.480 I never would have done before and that feels exciting, that feels like something 395 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.559 that I get to celebrate. It doesn't have to be marked just by did 396 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.200 you quote unquote finish or did I quote unquote finish, which I mean even 397 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:53.640 that language is kind of sus right, and like how many people have had 398 00:29:53.839 --> 00:30:00.799 orgasms during really bad sex, Like orgasm is not what makes sex good, 399 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.640 and in fact, like I'd argue, it's sort of the last thing that 400 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:11.839 does m For the last question, this person wants to know some ways to 401 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.279 share with a partner that they rarely orgasm with a partner. So similar to 402 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.079 kind of what I've talked about before, Camille, you and I have both 403 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.200 been saying that, like we've we've been these people, we are these people 404 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:30.400 that say this. Yeah. For me, I've found that I'm most comfortable 405 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:36.200 sort of as like physical like as physicality is escalating to bring this up. 406 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.920 So for me, I'm not typically bringing it up before we're like at least 407 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.240 making out or something. You know, things feel like they're moving in a 408 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.440 direction where someone might try to make me orgasm. When that's happening, I 409 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.440 might pause and just say, like, hey, just you know, really 410 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.680 hard for me to orgasm with a partner, not about you, so just 411 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:57.880 just so you know. And I've never had somebody have a negative reaction to 412 00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:03.279 that. Everybody has in I've seen relief on people's faces when they're like, 413 00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:10.319 oh, the criteria has gone amazing. So I usually will just say it 414 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:14.039 just that plainly as I feel that things are escalating. Now. There have 415 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:17.079 been other times if I've been like talking to somebody quite a bit before we 416 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.920 get into sexy stuff, then I might tell them over text because we might, 417 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:23.000 you know, maybe we're sexting before we have sex, or maybe I'm 418 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:27.559 just asking about language that they like to use. So I also think this 419 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:32.440 fits in well in any conversation where you're talking about what does consent look like 420 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:36.799 for you? What language do you like to use past experiences. I think 421 00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:41.599 that this could fit in really naturally in any of those conversations. M Yeah, 422 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:48.319 absolutely. I think I found that I usually talk about it. I've 423 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.119 mentioned it at all different phases, but sometimes maybe after or when things are 424 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:57.079 winding down, especially if the person is like but you haven't come yet, 425 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.880 and I'll be like oh and I live with like well cash be like yeah, 426 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:02.799 I'll be like, oh, yeah, no, don't worry about it. 427 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.640 Um, it's kind of more challenging for me to come with somebody else, 428 00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.960 but I'm enjoying it and that's kind of how I do it. And 429 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:14.599 then they'll be like, oh, I think it's more common for like, 430 00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:20.000 um, my experience with like women and fims to be like cool. Um. 431 00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:24.799 For for men, they're they're like, well, um, yeah, 432 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:30.319 exactly, Like I don't think that that's well, like exactly like they're like, 433 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.200 what are you about to tell you your friends or whatever about this? 434 00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.920 You know, like it's so much about their ego. But even like then, 435 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.240 I feel like it takes the pressure off of them. And you know, 436 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:45.480 I think that I've especially also gotten older, like realized that even their 437 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.519 reactions sometimes they're like, Okay, well are you sure is there something that 438 00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:52.079 I can do? And then I will feel like more information would be like 439 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:53.799 sure, like you can give me head for a little longer, or um 440 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.839 no, I'm great that it was fun, or like let's bring my vibrator 441 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:02.440 into this because it's very trust totally yeah, totally yeah. And that's what 442 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:06.799 I do like about, like as I'm getting older, being like yeah, 443 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.880 and now I've got so many boxes of toys and toys everywhere that I'm just 444 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:15.079 like, and they're excited too. I think that they'll be like, well, 445 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:16.759 I should we use one of these, and I'll be like, sure, 446 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:22.640 why not? We don't have to I'm tired. I'd love that because 447 00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.759 it's not a disclosure that we owe anybody up front. I you know, 448 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:29.160 disclose up front if it helps you relax. But yeah, i'd love that, 449 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.599 Like if it comes up, you have a response, hmm. And 450 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:37.440 I think that talking about it casually and not apologetically, yeah, of like 451 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:44.200 oh I'm so sorry, Like I'm really not sorry. It's something that is 452 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:45.759 fine with me, and I can just share it, like you know, 453 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.480 you're literally not hurting anybody by yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, 454 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:54.440 it's fine, but let's keep going or it's fine and it's okay for it 455 00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:59.279 to end now. Yeah. Well, this was a very fun episode and 456 00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:04.880 there was so many questions and so many good questions, and I'm glad that 457 00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.159 this is a topic that we got to cover. And just remember that your 458 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:19.840 orgasms don't mean that you have been successful at sex. This week's safe word 459 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:25.039 is Koala from Jack's Thank You So Much. Jack's very cute safe word Safe 460 00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:29.639 Word is hosted by Casey Tanner and Kamie Lewis and is produced by coordinator E 461 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.840 two Townsend. Our theme song is written performed by Emma Jane and Tori Rainy. 462 00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:36.960 To support the show, please follow us on Spotify and take a moment 463 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.639 right now to give us five stars. We also, of course love rave 464 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:45.039 reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Every other week we 465 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.079 put a question box out on Instagram, giving you the opportunity to ask for 466 00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.599 advice on the topic at hand. To submit long form questions in writing or 467 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:55.840 in your own voice, go to the safe Word Pod or Career Sex Therapy 468 00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:00.679 Instagram pages and click on our link tree in the b I to write out 469 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.559 those long form questions. If anything today made you curious about seeking support, 470 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.320 the Expansive Group has a great team of therapists and mentors to discuss challenges you 471 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:12.280 might be facing. Go to the Expansivegroup dot com, submit a contact form 472 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:15.760 and we'll get you connected. For behind the scenes look at safe Word and 473 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.480 podcasts updates. Find us on Instagram at safe Word Pod. We'll be back 474 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.880 in two weeks with a new episode of Safe Word