1 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:18,640 Welcome to episode forty five of Get Out Alive, a podcast where me your 2 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,399 host Ashley. Somehow every time forgets this introduction and just had to listen to 3 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,000 a previous episode to remember it. But I am your resident animal expert, 4 00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:32,119 and I will lead you through this story. Oh no, you just kept 5 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,920 going. I'm sorry. I know this is new. Yeah, I mean 6 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,320 it's only the forty fifth time we've done it. Yeah. Actually, yeah, 7 00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:42,000 are we re starting? That? Is it my turn? Now? 8 00:00:42,079 --> 00:00:43,960 You know what, We're just gonna make it your We're gonna send it all 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,039 right. Yeah. Well, I'm Nick and I am still a little bit 10 00:00:47,079 --> 00:00:50,719 sick from some Chinese food last night, so we are really thriving right now. 11 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,159 I also ate this Chinese food and did not get sick, so it 12 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,920 sounds like more of a U issue than a Chinese food issue. Well, 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,640 I think it was the drink I had, so that's kind of what I'm 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,560 blaming the moment. It was very sugary and gross. So oh yeah. 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:10,079 Anyways, welcome to this podcast, doing well? Do we have anything else 16 00:01:10,079 --> 00:01:14,120 to talk about before we just dive right in? I guess no, great, 17 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,760 So if you join us at patreon dot com, slash get out a 18 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,159 live podcast. Sometimes I throw out a poll for like what episode you guys 19 00:01:23,159 --> 00:01:25,760 want to hear next, like what species? And I was gonna do that 20 00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:29,480 this time, but then Nick had a recommendation, which we are not doing 21 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,200 today because there's another story or species that's been like really stuck in my mind 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,799 for ever, basically ever since someone pointed it out to me, So we're 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,000 gonna do it. Deal today, we're talking about coyotes again. Oh my 24 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,480 god, I know, big schocker. This is the first time I like 25 00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:49,120 legitimately told you what we were talking about and gave you resources to look at 26 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:51,200 it yourself. So I thought, I mean, like you just told me 27 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,239 right now is well, you did mention last night when you're a little bit 28 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,239 drunk, so maybe you accidentally told me. No, it wasn't an accident. 29 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,000 I'm just really excited to talk about it. So yeah, it's fucking 30 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,840 good. I'm breathing through the thing like as we speak pretty much. So 31 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,400 oh great, So your insight will be awesome. I've been doing homework all 32 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,039 them. Sorry, hey, me too. And then I still did this, 33 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,879 so you're better than me. We know that. Yeah, thank you 34 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,439 for that. Anyways, Also, thank you to at Jenny d on the 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:21,400 Block on Instagram who suggested this story, and also they were not the only 36 00:02:21,439 --> 00:02:23,960 one to suggest this story to us. I just could not keep track of 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,960 everyone who sent it, but she or they sent it. They were the 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,879 first one most recently, Yes, they were the first. There was the 39 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:34,360 most recent. Pretty much. It's a good name to shout out Jenny d 40 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:37,719 on the Block like j Lo right was Was she Jenny on the Block back 41 00:02:37,719 --> 00:02:39,560 in the day? Was she? I think? So? Is that like 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,520 one of her songs or something? Huh, that's before our time, so 43 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,719 I'm not completely sure. I definitely remember listening to it as a child. 44 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,960 Yeah, people are gonna hate hearing that that Jennifer Lopez like her sin cres 45 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,800 before our time, but it was like way before our time. Yeah. 46 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:55,159 Also I've heard that she's like a terrible person, so I don't give a 47 00:02:55,159 --> 00:03:00,639 shit. Sorry, I have no idea. Yeah. Anyways, so this 48 00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:04,199 is an older case that took place in two thousand and nine, and I 49 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,280 well, first of all, like all of you sent it to me, 50 00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:08,919 so that was great. But the reason I specifically like it's been stuck in 51 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,280 my head and I want to go over it is because there is a new 52 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,639 study that was published in twenty twenty two on why this attack happened. So 53 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:24,400 today we're talking about Taylor Josephine Stephanie Lucio, also known more commonly as Taylor 54 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,840 Mitchell. Yeah, I mean that full name is a lot so I things, 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,080 see you're shortening it. But also like Mitchell isn't in her name, 56 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,080 and also I don't know where mitchell Yeah, I don't know where it came 57 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,319 from, but like sounds good, so stepparent or something who knows, not 58 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,639 me, that's for sure to me either, like make stuff up though you 59 00:03:43,719 --> 00:03:47,120 usually do, damn right. So she was more commonly known as Taylor Mitchell 60 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:52,439 because it was her stage name. Because she was a country folk singer and 61 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:57,159 songwriter from Toronto, Canada. Oh cool. She had an album named four 62 00:03:57,199 --> 00:04:00,360 Year Consideration that was released in March of two thousand and nine. Had spent 63 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,759 the summer of two thousand and nine busy performing, including a performance at the 64 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,759 Winnipeg Folk Festival in June of that year. She was up and coming, 65 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:12,400 like big deal, yeah, in the fulk country music category, at least 66 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:15,800 in Canada, Canada. I don't know how big that scene is but but 67 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:17,120 hey, you know what, good for her? She seems like she's killing 68 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,279 in her own way, you know. Yeah. So, one of the 69 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,399 contributors to her album said that she wrote songs beyond her years and said about 70 00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:27,879 her quote, she didn't provide answers as so many of her age tried to 71 00:04:27,879 --> 00:04:31,279 do. There was no precociousness about her. Instead, she just asked questions. 72 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,120 All right, she's nice, yeah, yeah, And to promote her 73 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:39,519 new album in October two thousand and nine, she set out on a solo 74 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,360 tour of the Maritime Provinces, which is just like Eastern Canada, and had 75 00:04:43,439 --> 00:04:46,199 just received her license in a new car. She was nineteen years old. 76 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:50,160 Oh oh yeah, shit, oh damn. Young people can be successful, 77 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,800 just not us. I think we're doing okay, yeah, sure, yeah, 78 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,199 you know what, you're right. Yeah, we both live places and 79 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,480 have bank accounts, so we're not starving to death out for dinner last night, 80 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:03,720 so we're doing that well at least. Yeah. True. And go 81 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,399 on to shopping spree. Oh I did so good, But that's a different 82 00:05:08,439 --> 00:05:10,920 story. You really did. Although I will say, like the new sweatshirt 83 00:05:10,959 --> 00:05:13,079 that you bought that you're currently wearing has a bear on it, and I 84 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,600 have to believe that you did that on purpose. I mean like it definitely 85 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,319 caught my attention, and then I was like, you know what, send 86 00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:21,040 it? So I spent the fourteen dollars on an old Navy sweatshirt, which 87 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,240 is big for me because I don't buy a lot of clothes. Yeah, 88 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,759 do you want to tell everyone about your jacket? I bought one hundred and 89 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:30,920 seventy dollars jacket for thirty dollars. I'm so pumped. I bought a fifty 90 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,639 dollars jacket for twenty dollars. There we go. You could have had it 91 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,480 for less few Let me use my military discount. They also asked me if 92 00:05:36,519 --> 00:05:40,199 I was a college student, and I panicked and said no, although I 93 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,079 am that you've spent most of your life being call student. So yeah, 94 00:05:44,079 --> 00:05:46,199 I know it's disappointing. I didn't use it to my advantage for once. 95 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,879 Anyways, we just completely went off the rails from this story. We did, 96 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,560 and that's you know what I've like, two or three people have been 97 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,319 like, stupid the story. No, No, No, that's not what 98 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,800 this is. No, anyways, to get back to that story, The 99 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:06,920 tour started on October twenty third, and around this time Taylor was also nominated 100 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:11,759 for a Young Performer of the Year but the Canadian Folk Music Awards. Wow, 101 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,160 I know, so she was doing really well well it was so. 102 00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:17,480 She had just performed in Lucasville, which is near Halifax, and had two 103 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,759 days before her next concert in Sydney, so she decided to visit a national 104 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,240 park and do some hiking. Specifically, Taylor decided to visit the Cape Breton 105 00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:30,399 Highlands National Park. Have you heard of it? I have not known. 106 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,600 So for some background on this national park. The Cape Breton Highlands National Park 107 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,120 is nine hundred and fifty square kilometers in size, which is roughly three hundred 108 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,160 and sixty seven square miles. So all that area consists of steep cliffs, 109 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,439 deep canyons, and a forested plateau that borders the Atlantic Ocean. And it 110 00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:50,319 has a mix of habitat types too, including Acadian, boreal and tiger habitats. 111 00:06:50,319 --> 00:06:53,480 Oh my, tega, I never know how to say that word. 112 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,680 I've read it and I've barely ever had to say it out loud. I 113 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,000 don't even know what Akadian forest is like. I don't know what that means. 114 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,319 These are mostly high elevation forest types sick and like cold. High elevation 115 00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:08,920 cold. Well, most high elevations are cold, so very cool. It 116 00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:12,920 has twenty six trails and eight campgrounds and is home to a lot of animals, 117 00:07:12,959 --> 00:07:15,639 including timber wolves. That's reason enough for me to want to go, 118 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:19,439 Hey everyone, Ashley from the future here. I just wanted to pop in 119 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,920 and say that I was actually incorrect in saying that wolves are in the Cape 120 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,759 Briton Highlands National Park. On their website, they actually say that they are 121 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,839 extirpated from the area, so they no longer live there, but you still 122 00:07:30,879 --> 00:07:33,279 live there years ago, so no more wolves there, but they used to 123 00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:38,279 live there. Okay, back to the episode, Coyotes, caribou, moose, 124 00:07:38,439 --> 00:07:41,319 and black bears just to name a few. Obviously there's more than just 125 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,879 mammals there, but those are my favorite of course. So this national park 126 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,959 in recent years, back in two thousand and nine, had been experiencing a 127 00:07:47,959 --> 00:07:53,759 lot of negative incidents between humans and coyotes, with thirty two cases to be 128 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,639 exact. I don't know what timeframe that's from specifically, but thirty two cases 129 00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:01,160 in recent years, and seven of those in all coyotes biting and injuring people. 130 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:05,439 Oh shit, which is not normal. It's not good. No. 131 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,639 So the park also has some pretty extreme topography, and although we know coyotes 132 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,240 are super adaptable to new environments, this one was really hard for them to 133 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:20,040 adapt to. But they still did. But the way that they managed to 134 00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:26,879 make claim to this area was by killing moose and caribou. That's impressive. 135 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,519 Actually, yeah, how many fucking chios to take to kill moose? A 136 00:08:31,559 --> 00:08:35,000 few more than one? I would say, sex sure, Yeah, I 137 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,960 don't know. Just that's crazy. Maybe if you had the study, you 138 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,759 would have found out you sent it to make an hour ago. I sent 139 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:45,399 it multiple hours ago. I'm sorry. Yeah, don't put that on me. 140 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,039 So, coyotes are known to switch prey depending on where they are and 141 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,600 like the availability of different types of prey. So across the entire species of 142 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,399 coyote, which is like across this entire country of the United States and also 143 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,399 lower and everywhere else coyotes are. They're only in North America. Oh really, 144 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,919 I do not. Yeah, Oh very cool. I think we talked 145 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:07,320 about that in our coyote episode because I was like, you would think that 146 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:11,159 I'd be a national animal. Yeah, you'd think that we'd have more pride 147 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:13,480 and an animal that's like super adaptable and also only really exists here, but 148 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,120 we tend to hate them. So instead we have bald eagles that also are 149 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,240 in Russia, but they're that's just their spy on them for us. Okay, 150 00:09:22,159 --> 00:09:24,919 you're really lending to the whole like birds or government drones thing. Oh 151 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:26,600 no, no, no, no no, they're definitely not. No, 152 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,200 don't worry about that. No one looking too that great. Anyways, My 153 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:33,519 point was coyotes are known to like kill a bunch of different stuff, right 154 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:39,559 yea, And other studies have shown that coyotes are capable and do kill large 155 00:09:39,639 --> 00:09:43,639 undulates like white tailed deer and elk, but they need the conditions to be 156 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,480 like perfect for that to happen. So it's very opportunistic mostly. And also 157 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,639 if they live in a system where there are a lot of other prey types 158 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:56,879 like snowshoe hairs, human food voles, big undulates like moose do not make 159 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,720 up a lot of their diet. Yeah, it make no sense form we 160 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:01,440 go after something that big if they have easy small prey nearby. Exactly. 161 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,360 So on the plateau, the forested plateau that I mentioned in the Cape Breton 162 00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:09,960 Highlands National Park in the winter, there are really extreme snow drifts that also 163 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,200 like shift a lot, and sometimes moose will get caught in these snow drifts 164 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,360 and become completely immobilized. No shit. Yeah. Oh, and in this 165 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:22,919 national park there are not a lot of other prey options for coyotes, so 166 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,840 they're often relying on killing big animals like moose to survive. And like I 167 00:10:28,879 --> 00:10:31,759 was saying, when moose get will mobilize, like that's kind of when coyotes 168 00:10:31,799 --> 00:10:35,960 strike. Yep. So now let's get back to Taylor's hike. It was 169 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,080 October twenty seventh, two thousand and nine, and Taylor set out on the 170 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,600 Skyline trail around two forty five pm. A couple had passed Taylor going on 171 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:48,200 the opposite direction near the beginning of the trail as they were finishing up their 172 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,720 hike and Taylor was just getting started. Does that make sense? Yep. 173 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,440 Around three pm that day, an American couple Mike and Gale, were hiking 174 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,879 on the access road and headed to the car park, and they moved off 175 00:10:58,879 --> 00:11:03,320 of the trail as Toootes approached them, seemingly fearless, walking towards them along 176 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:09,279 the road in the opposite direction, so like headed towards Taylor. Okay, 177 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,879 yeah, that's that's pretty sketchy. And one of the members of the couple 178 00:11:11,919 --> 00:11:16,639 photographed the coyotes before they headed directly to the car park. After this, 179 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,919 six minutes later, Mike and Gale heard what they assumed was either animals howling 180 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:26,480 or a woman screaming. Oh no, there was a telephone box at the 181 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,559 park. I'm assuming, like, oh my god, what are they called? 182 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:31,320 It's like an emergency phone. Yeah, thank you. So they called 183 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,159 park rangers and reported the noises, and as they were like kind of hanging 184 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,360 out in the parking lot, four other hikers arrived and Mike and Gale told 185 00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:43,559 them about what they had heard before Mike and Gale left. So these four 186 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:48,159 hikers began walking along the access road and walked for several minutes before they found 187 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,600 car keys and a small knife. But that's it. No person, no 188 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,159 blood, not yet. Oh god, how'd that happen? You're about to 189 00:11:56,159 --> 00:12:00,600 find out. So at the head of the trail there was like a small 190 00:12:00,639 --> 00:12:05,039 clearing, and in that clearing they saw torn pieces of bloody clothing in a 191 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,279 pool of blood. On the ground. Oh shit. There was also a 192 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,679 bathroom in this clearing and it had blood on the door. Oh in my 193 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,000 mind, it's like a bloody handprint. Yeah, like she was trying to 194 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,799 get into the door, or whoever this may have been was or whatever it 195 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,039 was, was trying to get the door. Yeah, I have a bloody 196 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:24,559 hand print of a human that a coyote may have put there. Yeah, 197 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,600 you don't know. At three twenty five pm, the hikers found Taylor lying 198 00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:33,320 near some trees with a coyote standing over her. Oh. Man, so 199 00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:35,559 spoiler it was probably a human handprint note Oh yeah, yeah, probably yeah 200 00:12:35,639 --> 00:12:41,399 yeah yeah. Oh fuck. So three of the hikers charged the coyote multiple 201 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,879 times until it moved away and Taylor was alive and able to speak to them, 202 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:52,519 But the coyote did not fully leave the area and actually was staying there 203 00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:58,000 and growling at them. Oh fuck. And it was not the only coyote, 204 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:01,399 because there was another one that was near by as well, but like 205 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:07,080 wasn't approaching them necessarily. That's fucking crazy. So the coyotes stayed in the 206 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,080 area until a Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer arrived and shot it with a shotgun. 207 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:16,159 Mounte. So they killed the like most aggressive like nearby coyote, and 208 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,519 then the other one took off into the woods. Makes sense. Taylor had 209 00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:24,039 been bitten all over her body and had particularly serious wounds on her leg and 210 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,120 her head. She was taken to a community health center on the Cabot Trail 211 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:33,360 and then was airlifted to the Queen Elizabeth two or the second. I don't 212 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:41,600 know how. They clearly don't know how royal people work. I just Elizabeth. 213 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:48,039 That was so stupid. It was. It's called Queen Elizabeth the second 214 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:54,440 Health Sciences Center, got it, got it? But like it's the second 215 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,960 Queen Elizabeth. So my my American ass head was like Elizabeth number two, 216 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,759 Elizabeth Junior. Yeah, exactly, thank you. There's not a lot of 217 00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:07,039 laughs in this story, so I'm gonna sneak them in whenever we can. 218 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,879 Let's do it. Anyways, she was lifted to that Health Sciences Center in 219 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:16,679 critical condition. I'm only laughing because I'm stupid. You sound like me, 220 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,320 I know, Are you okay? Who knows? Are you sure you didn 221 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,600 get food poison last night? Just of the brain apparently still the brain? 222 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:30,480 Anyways, time to stop laughing, because so Taylor was lifted to this health 223 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,879 center and actually ended up dying of her injuries, which was mostly because of 224 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:41,840 blood loss. Yeah. Fuck. So this is obviously a huge deal and 225 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,840 still remains a huge deal to this day because as of twenty twenty three, 226 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:54,080 Taylor Mitchell or Taylor Josephine Stephanie Lucio is the only human to have been killed 227 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,799 by coyotes. That's crazy to me that she's the only one. Yeah, 228 00:14:58,879 --> 00:15:01,360 right, And I think that's why they wanted to do this study, because 229 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,279 they were like, what happened to make this happen? You said that she 230 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,840 was like just on a trail, right, She wasn't out in the middle 231 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:13,039 of fucking nowhere, Like she was in a place like normally traversed by people. 232 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,919 Yeah, you figure, like a group of other people had just passed 233 00:15:15,919 --> 00:15:18,120 her. The coyotes were coming from the direction of the car park. They 234 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:24,720 just ran past other people. Yeah, and it's the clearing at the trailhead. 235 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,360 So I don't know exactly how busy this National Park is, but this 236 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,080 is like a very human frequented area, you know. Yeah. So naturally, 237 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,480 after this happened, officials set out to find the other coyote that was 238 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:39,200 responsible for the attack, that was there when the mounted police officer arrived. 239 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,440 So hours after the attack, the trail was closed to the public and a 240 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,759 warden was posted at the bathroom that had the blood on the door that we 241 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:54,000 talked about, and a female coyote appeared and was shot and killed after displaying 242 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,320 aggressive behavior. What the fuck? Yeah, within one kilometer or less than 243 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,720 a mile, the skyline trail, leg hold traps were set out and three 244 00:16:02,759 --> 00:16:07,879 other coyotes were caught and killed this way, within five kilometers or three miles, 245 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,679 A large male coyote weighing about forty two pounds was killed on November fourteenth. 246 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:17,559 So they just start calling coyotes in the park just in that area weird. 247 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:19,440 Why do you think that's weird? If you killed the one that was 248 00:16:19,919 --> 00:16:22,679 hovering over the body, like, have the others shown any kind of Like 249 00:16:22,679 --> 00:16:26,919 the one that's aggressive towards the park ranger and they shot that one, makes 250 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,960 sense, cool, But like to catch them in snares then kill them like 251 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,759 that doesn't make any sense to me, Like they haven't done anything to show 252 00:16:32,919 --> 00:16:37,960 aggressiveness. I think if we were talking about a different predator, like a 253 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,320 bear for example, it would make sense to be confused by that, right, 254 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:44,399 But I think the assumption here, and once again, I'm just making 255 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,679 an assumption based off of the conditions of what happened. I think they're assuming 256 00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:51,960 that one coyote or two coyotes couldn't do this. It had to be multiple 257 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,279 Okay, Okay. I don't know if they ascertained that from her wounds or 258 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,879 if they just assumed, like because of coyote behavior, that it had to 259 00:16:59,879 --> 00:17:02,679 be group of them. Yeah, because, like we talked about before, 260 00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:04,880 a group of them has to kill a moose, because like one or two 261 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,079 coyotes wouldn't be able to do that, especially if the biggest of all of 262 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,240 them was only forty two pounds, like it would have to take multiple individuals 263 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,640 to do it. Is it what I'm assuming why they did it? Yeah? 264 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,079 And I do know that we have bigger coyotes here on the East coast 265 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:18,799 the United States than we do out west or down south of the United States. 266 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,640 I imagine the coyotes that are up in Nova Scotia are going to be 267 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,839 pretty big to even like even a group of them, like, they still 268 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,000 need to be pretty large animals be going after a movie Soro or cariboos. 269 00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:32,640 I'm sure they're bigger coyotes than we might see in other places. Yeah, 270 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,440 and we're not even going to get into the discussion here of like coyote wolf 271 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,599 hybrids, because that's true. Yeah, yeah, but I mean there are 272 00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:47,079 wolves in that area, and there is some scientific evidence showing that coyotes molve 273 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,720 some times hybridize. But I don't. I mean, it was only forty 274 00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:52,799 two pounds and it was considered big, so like, that's not that big. 275 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,960 I think it's not that big for a wolf, but I think for 276 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,279 a coyote's pretty large, right, and kyries are probably what twenty five pounds? 277 00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:02,000 Yeah, well, I don't know, I'm not Yeah, yes, 278 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,920 I'm just saying that off the top of my head. I have no fucking 279 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,599 idea you're looking it up, I am, actually, Yeah, dude. 280 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,599 It says most adults are about forty eight to sixty inches long from nose to 281 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,960 tail, and way between thirty to fifty pounds. So I guess like these 282 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:22,559 ones are pretty average for what it's saying on Google from portal dot ct dot 283 00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:26,200 gov. So I let's say ament Connecticut government website. Yep, Yeah, 284 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,279 so they might be a little different depending on where you are. But they're 285 00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:33,640 not huge animals. No, no, definitely not so. Anyways, they 286 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,839 perform knee cropsies on each coyote, and they found that three of the coyotes, 287 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,839 including the first one killed and the last one killed, were linked to 288 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,279 the attack on Taylor by the blood on their fur and quote other forensic evidence, 289 00:18:47,319 --> 00:18:51,599 but they don't specifically say what. Okay. The large male coyote was 290 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:55,079 also determined to be one of the coyotes photographed earlier on that day Taylor was 291 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,000 killed by Mike and Gale, and those were the two running the direction of 292 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:03,759 of Taylor. Yeah, of Taylor. Okay, Yeah, so it was 293 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,839 identified by coat markings, but it also contained pellets from when that officer killed 294 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:11,559 the coyote with a shotgun. Oh, it caught some extras. Yeah, 295 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:15,640 so this was the coyote that had escaped into the woods that day. Gotcha. 296 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,519 It was also assumed that the other coyote that had been killed but wasn't 297 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:22,519 directly linked to the attack was part of this pack of coyotes, because that 298 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:26,119 coyote was found to be related to the large male and the large female ones 299 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,119 that were killed. Ye. Therefore, assuming that the large male and female 300 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,200 were a breeding pair and these other were their offsprings or just like general relatives. 301 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,480 And we've gone over this before. Some people don't believe coyote's pack up, 302 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:41,839 but they certainly do. I mean yes, depends on where you are. 303 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,319 Again, Yeah, I'm sure we've talked about it before in like wolf 304 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,400 episodes, in probably the Coyote episode two. But like even wolf packs are 305 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,599 just a breeding pair and then other relatives. So like a pack of coyotes 306 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:57,079 is usually a breeding pair in their offspring, but like the offspring sometimes can 307 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,519 stay for an extra year or two and how them raise their pups next year 308 00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:03,680 or something like that. So that's what really consists of a pack. So 309 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,960 it's just like a family group on a If you look at the worldwide population 310 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,480 to wolves and kind of something you say, in Yellowstone we have like forty 311 00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:15,079 large wolf packs. Like that's just not normal. That's very specific to like 312 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,839 Yellowstone, Yellston. Wolves are like a weird example because it's like a somewhat 313 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,440 manufactured you know what I mean. I feel I'm going to ruffle feathers. 314 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,519 I'm so afraid to talk about wolves. Yeah, they we shipped in from 315 00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:29,440 Canada. Like they it's not their natural area, like they didn't naturally evolve 316 00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:33,000 in Well, this specific lineage of wolves did not evolve in that area. 317 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,720 So this kind of got dropped in and said, hey, good luck. 318 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,079 When I went to Yellstone, I bought a book about like the reintroduction of 319 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,359 that pack into Yellowstone. I need to read it and we should do like 320 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,880 a mini episode or something someday about it. That'd be fun cool. Yeah. 321 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:52,160 Yeah, So anyways, Taylor's mom eventually released a statement saying, quote, 322 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:56,400 we take a calculated risk when spending time in nature's fold. It's the 323 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,039 wild life's to reign when the decision has been made to kill a pack of 324 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,000 coyotes. I clearly heard Taylor's voice say, please, don't. This is 325 00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:07,160 their space. She wouldn't have wanted their demise, especially as a result of 326 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:14,319 her own. But in mid November, just a month after her death or 327 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,400 less than a month, a couple was walking in the park and had a 328 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,599 coyote approach them from behind so closely that one of them could hit it over 329 00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:26,480 the head with a walking stick. Oh shit. Yeah, And just ten 330 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,480 months after Taylor's death, a sixteen year old girl was camping at Broad Cove 331 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,680 in this National Park with her parents and was bitten twice on the head by 332 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:40,680 a coyote. These things don't give a fuck. Yeah, So I totally 333 00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:44,079 understand Taylor's mom's perspective, and like, I mean, if I was to 334 00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:45,880 be killed by a wild animal, my mom would say the same thing, 335 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,039 like anyone would say the same thing about me, that I wouldn't want the 336 00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:52,519 animals to be killed. But in this circumstance, I get it, because 337 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,759 clearly there's a problem. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Now they're all put 338 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:00,200 to fucking assholes. You gotta kill them to put a blunt leaves? Sure, 339 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,720 yeah, yeah, I mean they're fucking with people, like, yeah, 340 00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:04,759 you can't have them kill another person, like, yeah, take care 341 00:22:04,799 --> 00:22:08,319 of them. Yeah, they'll reproduce anyway. Well yeah, we'll get into 342 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,519 that in a little bit. But in April of twenty ten, Nova Scotia 343 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:17,759 declared a twenty dollars bounty on coyotes, but not within the park, and 344 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,519 park conservation managers also did not want to call the coyotes in the park, 345 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:25,920 citing the fact that they could reproduce so quickly that it'd be so hard to 346 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,119 get rid of them. But then They also pointed out that the coyotes who 347 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,599 feared humans would have the same propensity to fear humans as the ones that avoided 348 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,000 being caught and killed, So by natural selection, the ones that survive are 349 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,960 the ones that are already avoiding humans, so you have to kill them, 350 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,880 that was the theory. But then they also were trying to say, like 351 00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:51,720 every coyote that exists has the same propensity to be afraid of people, it's 352 00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:53,559 just whether or not, like you do something about it to like make them 353 00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:57,000 furious, to harass them or whatever, and exactly, so that's kind of 354 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,039 what they were hoping for, like just to more non lethal measurements, so 355 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:03,279 you didn't have to go out and try to kill every coyote, because as 356 00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:07,839 we know, killing massive amounts of coyotes does not rid yourself of them. 357 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,319 Yep. So park officials ask visitors to just report any coyote encounters, and 358 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,279 they also still ask you to report any negative coyote encounters that you may or 359 00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:19,720 may not have, because the problem is not gone. No. I mean, 360 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:25,960 it's interesting because the whole problem seems to be that the natural prey that 361 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:30,720 codes have to go after are just large mammals. So that includes so many 362 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:34,279 more things into their natural prey source, which would include humans. We're way 363 00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:38,400 smaller than musa caribou, so if they're able to kill them, they're obviously 364 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,039 able to kill us. So like a coyote that lives in the desert somewhere 365 00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:45,599 where there's no large mammals would never think about going after a person because they're 366 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,519 like, fuck no, I've never tried to kill anything over like ten pounds. 367 00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:52,720 So it's wild because it's kind of like the environment itself is what's creating 368 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:56,200 these coyotes, and it's probably going to continue to happen if you do call 369 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:03,079 the population great segue into what happened to make these coyotes start to attack and 370 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,079 try to kill and in one case kill a person? Was that close that? 371 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,599 It is like rip all that often? It was close? You really 372 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:15,559 did? I love it? I love it. So the study, which 373 00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:19,279 I will of course link in the episode description, is titled Severe Environmental Conditions 374 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:26,720 Create Severe Conflicts. A novel ecological pathway to extreme Coyote attacks on humans and 375 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:30,400 this article. The scientific article is by Stanley Gert, Eric Muntz, Evan 376 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:36,039 Wilson, Jason Power, and Seth Newsome. And I would like to shout 377 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:38,920 out Twitter user at roland K's for tweeting out this study in December of twenty 378 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,400 twenty two and two at mustelid May on Twitter for bringing it to my attention. 379 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,720 So thank you all. Thanks guys, Nick, do you know how 380 00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:52,880 scientific papers are set up? No? So just like basic quick rundown on 381 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:59,640 how scientific papers work. There's your introduction which gives the background as to like 382 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,079 what you we were trying to study, what other papers or scientific evidence exists 383 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,119 for, like your reasoning to study this, and like your hypothesis, and 384 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:14,319 then you go into methods, how you conducted the study results, any numbers 385 00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:17,960 that you generate from the study, Like your results are just for simply saying 386 00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:22,440 here's what we found. And then your discussion is like interpreting what you found. 387 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,079 Their methods for the study was that they radio collored twenty three coyotes between 388 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,920 October twenty eleven and November of twenty thirteen, and one of these coyotes was 389 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:37,480 actually euthanized by park staff after exhibiting aggressive behavior in August twenty twelve, which 390 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:41,880 actually happened after his caller was removed in July of twenty twelve. Okay, 391 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:45,119 I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, And then they did a spatial 392 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,799 analysis of where these coyotes were traveling, so like a spatial analysis basically just 393 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:52,720 taking all of your GPS points from those callers and being like, this is 394 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:56,119 their habitat and like their range because it's where they've put it on a map 395 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,240 and you say, like, this is this one's territory exactly yep. And 396 00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:03,880 they do have a map in their study article that shows you the range of 397 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,880 the coyotes that they found, so if you want to tick it out. 398 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:11,160 And then also like that spatial analysis tells you when they were most active, 399 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,119 which is useful yep, because they kind of mentioned it a little bit in 400 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,519 the study where typically coyotes that are trying to avoid people become more nocturnal, 401 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,000 as most animals do, because humans are most active during the day, so 402 00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:26,839 they try to be more active at nine ten if they're able. And then 403 00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:30,960 these are the coyotes in Novascoltia at this National park, right, yes, 404 00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:33,480 like this entire study area was the national park. Cool. So they also 405 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:38,240 collected whiskers and hair from the radio colored coyotes and also from other coyotes, 406 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:41,519 including the ones involved in the attack that killed Taylor. Is that just for 407 00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:45,920 a DNA sampling or yes, so they could do what's called like stable isotope 408 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:51,880 analyses because taking like the hair and the whiskers, you can determine what they 409 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,119 have been eating. Oh cool, Yeah, So they also collected hairs from 410 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,160 roadkill animals that they found the study area, or are carcass like hairs from 411 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:06,559 carcasses during unrelated small mammal surveys. And then what I thought was super interesting 412 00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:11,799 was that they collected human hair from a local barber shop to get stable isotope 413 00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:15,960 analyzes from local people to compare with the analyzes they were running on the coyotes. 414 00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:18,119 So would that be to see how much trash cars are going into to 415 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,440 see what they're eating the same things we are, I think? So yeah, 416 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,720 ah, this is cool. Yeah, it's really interesting science science bitch. 417 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,880 I'm not going to go into their results because we're going to talk about 418 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,359 their discussion instead, but you can check out their results if you'd like to 419 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,640 look at just the numbers. But in their discussion they state their results and 420 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,440 the biggest finding and the most important one in my opinion, was that coyotes 421 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:47,839 in this National Park were acting so aggressively towards humans because they had specialized in 422 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,000 hunting and consuming large mammals, and abundance and diversity of prey in the area 423 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:59,759 was low. They also found that the coyotes in this area showed very little 424 00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:03,319 to no reliance on anthropogenic food sources. What does that mean? That means 425 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,359 they weren't eating human garbage. Oh, that's good. Yeah. So, 426 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:11,200 like you know, when you and I think of national parks here in America, 427 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,599 it's always like black bears eating trash, and then they're relying on trash, 428 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,799 and that causes issues because the bears want the trash. YEP, I 429 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,680 would like to now read a part of their paper which describes the difference in 430 00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:26,279 the diets between the coyotes, because I think it's important. I will allow 431 00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:32,039 this, Thank you so much. Quote mixing models show that mean contributions of 432 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:37,559 moose fifty two point five percent and snowshoe hair twenty four point four percent combined 433 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:41,960 to contribute around seventy seven percent to the diets of these twenty eight individuals. 434 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,880 And I know that I said that they radio collared thirty two but like you 435 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,839 can read it, but like they just are reporting in twenty eight percent. 436 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,319 Did you just say that half of their diet is moose? Yes, holy 437 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,960 shit, still going. But there was significant variation in resource proportions among individuals, 438 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,839 with some consuming real relatively high proportions of deer or small mammals in comparison 439 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,519 to other coyotes. A concurrent study of coyote scats collected in the park during 440 00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:11,440 our field work, and they quote the article power at All twenty nineteen, 441 00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:15,799 it's in their citations, revealed that moose was the most frequent diet item, 442 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:22,720 with an annual frequency of occurrence of fifty seven percent, with some seasonal winter 443 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:27,200 spring frequencies exceeding seventy percent of their diet, which are patterns that mirrored the 444 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:32,880 mean contribution of moose derived from isotope mixing models. Okay, we're gonna break 445 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,599 this down into simple people terms. Yes, throughout the year, fifty percent 446 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,559 of their die is moose. During the spring, seventy five percent of their 447 00:29:41,599 --> 00:29:45,160 die is moose around winter spring, their diets around seventy seven percent moose. 448 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,000 What the fuck? That's crazy? So like that's that's going to be the 449 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,039 moose getting stuck in the snow, just like you said, and maybe calves 450 00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:55,359 and they're born in the springtime too. Yeah, that's a good point. 451 00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:56,119 I didn't think of calves e there, but yeah, that would be really 452 00:29:56,119 --> 00:30:00,400 easy for them, considering they can kill like caribou and adult mood. There's 453 00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:04,279 so many fucking moose in this area. Yeah. So they noted that in 454 00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:08,680 this study area moose were really abundant, but they rarely ever saw tracks or 455 00:30:08,799 --> 00:30:15,119 scap by snowshoe hair or white tailed deer. Huh. And they found that 456 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,720 within the coyotes that they sampled, there was not a lot of prey switching 457 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:22,319 and their diets largely obviously consisted of moose throughout the year, which is also 458 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:26,039 really interesting because we've talked about coyotes before. They're omnivores, they're really adaptable, 459 00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:30,640 so they can switch prey types if they have to, but not these 460 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,559 ones. And it's not because they didn't want to, it's because they could 461 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,839 not. There was nothing else there. There was nothing else there. So 462 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:42,680 they also the researchers assumed that most consumption of moose was from scavenging, but 463 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,960 they did find evidence on moose carcasses that predation did occur. Okay, so 464 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,519 they weren't normally killing them. They were eating dead ones most of the time. 465 00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,759 Yeah, and in the study quote at least one carcass located during winter, 466 00:30:56,839 --> 00:31:00,960 coyote tracking showed signs of predation, and on other occasions, live adult 467 00:31:02,079 --> 00:31:07,119 moose were observed with fresh wounds consistent with coyote bites in addition to coyote tracks 468 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,160 leading to the moose. Wow. Yeah, damn. These are just cool 469 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,160 fucking kyries. And I want to know about like the black beard population, 470 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,200 Sarah too. Are they also going after moose at a larger That's a great 471 00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:22,559 question. I don't know. Oh yeah, science more bears. I mean, 472 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,759 I encourage you to reach out to these researchers and say, hey, 473 00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:29,640 could you do this all over again? I will, Yeah, I will 474 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,319 fund it completely. I feel like these bears are gonna be a real problem 475 00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:36,000 one day. We should got ahead of it now. And I would like 476 00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:38,680 to partake on the field research so I can touch the bears and collect the 477 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,839 hair for you, thanks, and then leave right away. So I'd have 478 00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:47,400 to do the actual hard work and get helicoptered in dropped off, touch a 479 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,680 bear and then leave. Why would you have to be helicoptered in. We 480 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,400 could drive there right now. Yeah, but that's such a long drive and 481 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:53,680 not have to walk into the woods. Like, come on, just a 482 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:59,480 helicopter in. Based on everything I've heard of this environment, it sounds like 483 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,799 souper convenient to get a helicopter in. Yeah. Perfect, great. Yeah. 484 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:08,680 So this study is interesting for another reason which also goes against a lot 485 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:14,440 of what we talk about in this podcast, which is the idea that coyotes 486 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,119 who rely on human food and are habituated to people are the only ones that 487 00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:22,880 can become aggressive towards people, obviously excluding sicka rabbit animals, meaning that, 488 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,440 like, this study goes to show that there are other reasons why coyotes may 489 00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:31,279 be led to attack people, not just because they're habituated to people through like 490 00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:36,160 eating garbage, but that they actually try to predate on people. Fuck. 491 00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:40,319 Yeah. Interesting. So I'm going to quote their study one last time to 492 00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:46,680 sum up what happened here. And also they abbreviate Cape Breton Highlands National Park 493 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:52,440 to c b HNP, so got it, which I wish I had done 494 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,839 this whole time because it's honestly unmouthful. Got it quote. We suggest that 495 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:04,079 the unprovoked severe attacks on people in CBHNP are at least partially the result of 496 00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:07,079 prey switching by coyotes that had specialized on a very large prey species in the 497 00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:14,640 absence of alternative, smaller prey and an extreme resource limited environment. Coyotes in 498 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,599 the park are not subjected to hunting or trapping, and without these negative stimuli, 499 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,400 they may not view humans with the fear that typifies the coyote human relationship 500 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,839 elsewhere. Given the size of the moose their primary prey, combined with limited 501 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,920 alternative prey, it seems coyote attacks on humans may be a unique circumstance leading 502 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,000 to attempts at switching to a novel prey. Although rare, this ecological pathway 503 00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:42,559 to carnivore attacks on humans has occurred with other species. The use of stable 504 00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:46,559 isotope ratios demonstrated that the case of the lions of Tsavo, where multiple people 505 00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:51,880 were killed by a pair of lions, was also the result of dietary specialization 506 00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:57,160 on a novel prey during a time of natural prey limitation. I mean, 507 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,279 I kind of nail that just saying you really did. Also, like how 508 00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:04,559 ironic that they've talked about the lines of TSAVO. At the end, they 509 00:34:04,599 --> 00:34:06,799 knew who are audiences. They're trying to, you know, help out the 510 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,719 listens and everything. Sure, yeah, I'm sure that this scientific article was 511 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:15,599 directly for us, but honestly it was really helpful for us exactly. I'm 512 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,760 not saying it was, but now it is. So Yeah, and they 513 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,840 kind of end by saying, you know, implications for management that although killing 514 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:30,400 all the coyotes will probably not be very useful, that people who are hiking 515 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,599 in this area should carry a stick or bear spray, and also that the 516 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:40,039 coyotes should be harassed in like non lethal ways, and that if there is 517 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:45,559 another national park or just general wildlife area where these circumstances are similar, so 518 00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:49,320 like coyotes eat large prey and don't have a lot of other prey, that 519 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,559 they should really keep an eye on the coyotes there and consider that this could 520 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:55,639 be an outcome. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's freaky, like not 521 00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,320 really something you imagine whatever come after you, Like, we definitely don't worry 522 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,519 about coyotes here, so really anywhere, I don't really I've never really worded 523 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:06,239 by car He's never only killed one person ever, apparently, So yeah, 524 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,760 in a very specific circumstance. Seriously, Yeah, so was the national park 525 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,400 named after the girl? No? No, sorry, okay, wait, 526 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,840 why would you think that? I don't know when you, I forget what 527 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,199 her name was, and you said Kate something Highlands National Park. So I 528 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,880 was like, is that her? Her name is Taylor Josephine s Stephanie Lucio 529 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,079 or Taylor Mitchell. And I heard Kate something and I was like, oh, 530 00:35:30,079 --> 00:35:34,000 that must be her. No. And also the national park is Cape 531 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,880 Breton Cape Okay, yeah, not Kate. Okay. See now that's why 532 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,599 I was. I was just a little mixed Up're gonna cut all this time? 533 00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:44,360 Anyway? No, No, we're going to keep that, okay if 534 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,280 we can? Alsoph I cut that one. Really stupid that they did name 535 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,039 it after this one. Stupid. She's the only to have a big deal. 536 00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:55,719 It's a very big deal. Why advertise it? Oh? I mean 537 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,320 they do shit like that sometimes, right, Who's they? And also know 538 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,239 that they as in the Canadians. Man, the Canadians name one other national 539 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,320 park in Canada that's named after a person that was killed there. I'm going 540 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,519 through my list of Canadan national parks right now. So it's gonna's mb a 541 00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:15,639 minute because a lot of them. I'm not reaching for my phone to google 542 00:36:15,679 --> 00:36:19,679 any Anyways, it wouldn't be great advertising for a national park to name it 543 00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:22,840 after the one person who's died there. I'm just saying. And also I 544 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,159 feel like it would lead to people trying to get killed. But so they 545 00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:32,440 could have a national park named after them, who would do that? Anyways? 546 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,519 I feel like we have to keep this in now, aw Man, 547 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,679 So do you want to talk about one more study really quickly? Sure? 548 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:44,320 Yeah, just because we have plenty of time. So I also, around 549 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,719 this time, like December of twenty twenty two, found another scientific article that 550 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:54,880 was published which is pretty linked to this podcast. And the title of this 551 00:36:55,039 --> 00:37:00,880 article is Suburban cats pay the Price for slinking into Coyote two Territory. Oh 552 00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:06,760 weird. What what's happening to these poor suburban cats that are obviously in everyone's 553 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,000 homes and not outside. Yeah, so there was a community in southern California 554 00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:15,679 that had seventy two cat deaths within eighteen months that they attributed to coyotes. 555 00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:19,880 I feel like it's not that many. Actually, that's a lot. Eighteen 556 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,519 months, seventy two cats is a lot. I mean, I guess. 557 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:30,760 So anyways, biologists were like huh, and they published a scientific article called 558 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:36,760 Spatiotemporal Relationships of Coyotes and free ranging domestic cats as Indicators of Conflict in Culver 559 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,599 City, California. I found this study through a Wildlife Society article, so 560 00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:46,719 I'll link to both. But basically, the study took twenty remote wildlife cameras 561 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,719 and set them up between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty for like a six month 562 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,360 period, and took images of where they knew that coyotes would be walking on 563 00:37:55,519 --> 00:38:00,320 wildlife corridors like bike paths and stuff like that. Yep. What they found 564 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:07,239 was so coyotes mostly used like urban green areas and like more natural areas obviously, 565 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,800 which is not unusual for them. But the surprising part of the study 566 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:17,199 was actually the behavior of the cats all across Culver City. In eighteen out 567 00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:21,599 of the twenty sites that they studied and like put cameras up, there were 568 00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:24,360 cats. And they said, quote, not only were they present in residential 569 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,000 spaces, but they were also present in green spaces that coyotes were primarily using 570 00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:34,320 as habitat, which was surprising because previous studies of outdoor cats showed that they 571 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,920 generally remain closer to residential areas, like where they fucking lived. Yah, 572 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,760 so it was surprised to find that they were wandering outside of residential areas. 573 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,079 And they also noted that like some of the cats could be just like stray 574 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:47,079 cats and not owned by anybody. But they did find a lot of cat 575 00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:53,199 pictures of cats with collars. So the research team concluded that managing the coyotes 576 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:58,679 may not be as effective as the government wants because it's the cat's fault. 577 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,480 Well. Yeah, so, like the biggest find of it was that the 578 00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:06,039 cats were wandering for their way from home than they expected. Yeah. So 579 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:07,800 they were pointing out, like everyone assumes that coyotes, I don't know, 580 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,039 come in trying to kill these fucking cats, But it's like, actually, 581 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:14,599 your cat is going to where the coyotes going to them. Yeah, it's 582 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:16,320 not the coyotes's fault that your cat's an idiot. And also it's your fault 583 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,119 for letting them outside. I Mean, the Culver City is like a part 584 00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:22,719 of LA. So if you lay your cat outside in La, like just 585 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,119 don't expect it back. It's I din't get hit by a car or something 586 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:30,039 like, it's just just silly. Oh god, I literally like this week 587 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,559 and every other week have a nightmare of my cat getting loose onto a busy 588 00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:37,199 road and your cat would run right back inside. She acts tough the moments 589 00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:40,480 she would step outside like oh fuck no, and the very rare occasions I 590 00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:44,480 like hold her in my arms and walk her outside. She does not really 591 00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:45,800 like it, and so it's a big world out there. I had a 592 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,320 cat that like, we like, let run outside real quick, and it 593 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,760 went out into the woods and came right back in. It's like fuck that 594 00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:55,400 as a cat like didn't want to be held, and it like jumped up 595 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,320 into our arms. I was like, okay, let's go wow. Yeah. 596 00:39:59,559 --> 00:40:01,079 Yeah. That reminds me of the time in college when I had an 597 00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:05,559 apartment. My roommate Hannah. I'm so sorry, Hannah. I know you 598 00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:09,280 listen to this. I've forgiven you. I promise left a window open so 599 00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:13,920 my cat got out. And I had like a summer class and I was 600 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,599 walking towards my apartment and this like little black head poked out from the opposite 601 00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:20,320 side of the house and I was like, that's weird. That looks a 602 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,079 lot like my cat, and like, also, I just want to pet 603 00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:25,679 a cat. So I walked over and I looked and also, my cat 604 00:40:27,159 --> 00:40:34,079 her name is Nimeia, but she only responds to yamo because I actually it's 605 00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:37,400 the only thing I've ever called her. So I looked at her and also 606 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,760 like, she's just a black cat. They all look the same. She 607 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,239 doesn't aware of call her because she's inside all the time. And I looked 608 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,280 at her. I was like yah meo, and she was like wow and 609 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,519 just once again yeah, like doesn't really like to be held, but jumped 610 00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:54,039 into my arms and I was like, thank god she did not run around 611 00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:59,360 Burlington Vermont because I'd never fucking find her. Yeah, so anyways, oh 612 00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:02,199 fuck that. Yeah. So anyways, it's not the coyotes's fault that they 613 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,039 eat your cats, but it is the coyotes's fault in the Cape Breton Highlands 614 00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:10,280 National Park for killing people. Yes, takeaway, But to your point earlier 615 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,840 where you were saying like why would they go around and kill all those other 616 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,199 coyotes and also like these coyotes are killing people and should be killed, I 617 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,440 kind of agree with you that they're specializing in larger prey and when they don't 618 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,519 have that prey, their next thought is to switch to people, which are 619 00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:30,599 pretty available in that area, I'm assuming, so it's really hard to manage 620 00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:35,440 them. And I'm curious to see how the non lethal harassment works out for 621 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,920 them. I means, can't be a bad thing. And if you're telling 622 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,119 people walk in the worse like sticks or pepper spray or something like, it's 623 00:41:40,119 --> 00:41:44,320 gonna be better than being in there with nothing. Yeah. And I mentioned 624 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,440 that those hikers found like that small knife along with Taylor's keys. I guess 625 00:41:47,519 --> 00:41:51,639 Taylor had tried to use that knife to defend herself and it didn't work. 626 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,960 Yeah, apparently not shit. Yeah, so we've covered coyotes before, because 627 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,599 we covered that guy who was attacked by a pack of coyotes in the middle 628 00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:02,239 of the night in Colorado. Yes, and I wonder what the difference was, 629 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,920 you know what I mean, did they ever say how many cays they 630 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,039 think actually were involved in the attack or was it just like they aren't sure 631 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,920 one was killed initially and then four were killed after the fact, so like 632 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,679 probably at least five. Okay, that's fucking crazy. Not sure though, 633 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,280 But I mean the other guy in Colorado, like he was attacked by an 634 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:23,880 entire pack of coyotes too. Yeah. I mean, but maybe they were 635 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,159 smaller because they were in Colorado and not Nova Scotia. But I don't know. 636 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,760 I do find interesting that the two guys that the couple saw running down 637 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,599 the road, they just walked right past the two people and found an individual 638 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,159 like they like singled her oute literally like like oh we we might not be 639 00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:40,079 able to take two people, we'd take one, so let's go after this 640 00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:44,599 one instead. Yeah. Maybe, And I will say, those pictures of 641 00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:47,679 those coyotes walking taken by like Mike and Gale, they posted them somewhere or 642 00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:52,239 sent them to a university because someone's like a biologist from a university was like, 643 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:59,480 those coyotes are exhibiting dominant behaviors towards humans, aka, they do not 644 00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:01,920 see people as threats and think that they're above us, like those two coyotes 645 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,480 and like expected you to get out of the way for them. Yeah, 646 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,840 and they did. Yeah, but how scary you took pictures of two coyotes 647 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:15,079 that walked by you and killed somebody in minutes. That's so it's so wild 648 00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:17,280 And they probably had no idea, like they didn't of course when they left. 649 00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:21,079 Yeah, I've said this before, like when someone screaming is like go 650 00:43:21,159 --> 00:43:23,840 help, this time it's like, I don't know, you just don't expect 651 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,320 it, Like there's nothing that really says it might be a person, like 652 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,639 this might sound like an animal. I'm not as mad about this one as 653 00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:32,199 I was during the grizzon Nights one, you know, and at least they 654 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,679 told people. Yes, true, but yeah, as I was researching this, 655 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:37,599 I was like, I wonder if Nick's gonna get really angry that they 656 00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:40,719 didn't go back. But yeah, they I mean, you've heard coyotes, 657 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,000 howel I've heard them howl, like sometimes it's like what the fuck is that? 658 00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:46,840 And it does sound like a person. Yeah, it's freaky. And 659 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,960 like again, the people that did go and find her and like tried to 660 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,840 scare away the coyotes, they stuck around it. They helped her out. 661 00:43:54,079 --> 00:43:58,119 Unfortunately didn't work out in the end, but they tried. So it's less 662 00:43:58,159 --> 00:44:00,400 to be angry about, you know, at least thing happened. Yeah, 663 00:44:01,159 --> 00:44:05,119 I'm glad that you feel good about that. Well yeah, except for she's 664 00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:08,239 dead, so not that is terrible. Yeah, of course, Yeah, 665 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:14,400 and like how weird that she was like a budding famous person and she was 666 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,039 the first person ever killed by Cartes. Like it's I don't know, not 667 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:19,480 that like you have to be famous for it to be weird that you're killed 668 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,639 by an animal, but like it's not just some random nobody that we've never 669 00:44:22,679 --> 00:44:25,280 heard of, Like no one in the world has ever heard of. Yeah, 670 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,400 Like if I died, no one really be like, oh my god, 671 00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:30,920 that up and coming podcaster. Now, well, okay, if you 672 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,039 were killed by an animal, I think it would be a little ironic that 673 00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:37,000 we have this podcast. It would probably be good for the views, like 674 00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:42,119 we would probably well you would probably get bigger for it. So here's the 675 00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:45,360 thing. If one of us is killed by an animal, let's let's say 676 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,480 you, because that's probably more likely if you were killed by an animal, 677 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,000 would you want me to make one last episode or would you want me to 678 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,519 continue or would you want me to stop this podcast? Well, here's the 679 00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:59,519 thing. We've never done any episodes on the animals I've killed, So why 680 00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:01,440 did they get an episode? And I don't what I mean, Like we've 681 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,239 never gone over hunting stories and stuff. I've gotten animals before, but they 682 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:07,679 haven't gotten me yet I'm bad in a thousand right now, all right, 683 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,159 I got a one hard percent k KD ratio. So like, I think 684 00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:15,480 it's unfair that they get me one time and I've gotten them multiple times, 685 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,519 and we do an episode saying, oh yeah, look at this they got 686 00:45:17,599 --> 00:45:21,719 nick. Well, first of all, this isn't a hunting podcast. I 687 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,199 know. That's why I've never complained about it. I'm just saying, so 688 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:28,280 you you would be mad that the one animal that kills you gets a podcast 689 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,639 episode. But we don't talk about the turkeys that you've killed. Correct, 690 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,199 Yes, Also we do talk about the turkeys that you've killed. I forced 691 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,360 us to. Yes, yeah, so which is it? Yeah, you 692 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,480 can never do the episode. That's absolutely, thank you so much. That's 693 00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:44,400 not even a question. Also, if I was to be killed by an 694 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,039 animal, I would want you to make one last episode about it, and 695 00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:50,519 also we would do our best. I wish I could hear it. Yeah, 696 00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:52,519 I was gonna say I wish I could hear whatever episode would because it'd 697 00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:57,039 probably be so bad. Well, yeah, it would be pretty bad, 698 00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:00,239 just in terms of storytelling, not in terms of like you crying. That's 699 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,719 what It's a story fight, not be the main point of the podcast. 700 00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:07,599 Maybe maybe I actually just take it over and just keep going with it. 701 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,159 Yeah, that'd be one hundred percent owner. Yeah, it'd go really well 702 00:46:10,199 --> 00:46:14,039 probably. I mean, we haven't tried for me to do it on my 703 00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:16,840 own without you yet, and I'd rather not, so okay, I'll try 704 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,159 not to get killed then, please do Yeah, thank you so much for 705 00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:23,920 listening to episode forty five of Get Out Alive. If you would like to 706 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,599 see the papers that we talked about or any additional links or anything for this 707 00:46:28,639 --> 00:46:31,360 episode, check out the episode description. You can join us on Patreon at 708 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,360 patreon dot com. Slash get out a live podcast where you can get like 709 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,800 bonus episodes discounts on merch Also, Patreon just released a feature where we could 710 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:46,400 offer people free trials oh no shit of subscriptions. Yeah, and maybe people 711 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,159 do that, and if we do, we'll let you guys know, So 712 00:46:49,199 --> 00:46:52,519 you could try out being a patron, like listening to episodes and seeing our 713 00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:55,559 posts and whatnot. Hell yeah. As of twenty twenty three, we've updated 714 00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:59,360 our website, get at a live podcast dot com, so it's new. 715 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,400 You can like admitt attack stories if you've been attacked if you want to talk 716 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,519 to us about them. The shop is there so you can get our merch. 717 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,440 We got book club. We have a book club so you can see 718 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,119 like relevant literature that we talk about or just things that I'm like. If 719 00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:14,280 you like this content, you would like this book. Oh yeah, yeah. 720 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,559 And I don't usually link to like buy it on Amazon because I encourage 721 00:47:16,599 --> 00:47:21,320 you to buy it from like local bookstores or whatever. So anyways, you 722 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,159 you can check us out on Instagram at get at a Live pod and follow 723 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,280 us on Facebook Get at a Live Podcast. I'm on TikTok i get it 724 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,679 alive, where I post mostly things about my mom's cat trying to attack me, 725 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,719 but sometimes it's like relevant podcast stuff. I mean, I guess that's 726 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,719 relevant. She tries to attack me, and she's an animal. You like 727 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,199 to throw her outside and just have her make work. Honestly, I know. 728 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,760 Anyway, we're not We're not getting rid of the cat. I can't 729 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:51,519 support my fond Okay, maybe that's why she's so excited. Fuck off, 730 00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:55,679 I'm kidding your favorite mon adorable, lovable, sweet cat and you're all mad 731 00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:00,239 about it. One of those words is correct, but sure, she loves 732 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,400 your mom. At least you can follow me on Twitter at the Angryologist. 733 00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:08,760 Nick I have no social media. Thank you to my good friend and second 734 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,760 grade husband, Josh Walsh for making her intro music, and to his brother 735 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,840 Jesse Walsh for being our editor and overall music guru. Pretty much, yeah, 736 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,039 and that's it. We will see you in two weeks for a brand 737 00:48:21,039 --> 00:48:22,199 new episode Peace