1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:49,840 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Over Murderer. I'm Bill Thomas 10 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,960 and Kristin Dilley is on a well deserved vacation, which means I'm flying this 11 00:00:55,119 --> 00:00:58,600 ship solo and perhaps almost blind. I don't know, we'll find out. 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:06,799 Join us today is Wendy Reid, retired investigator who's very prominently featured in the 13 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,239 new Burden of Proof documentary on HBO, which discusses the Jennifer Pendos case. 14 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,840 So Wendy, welcome, to mind over murder. Thank you for having me. 15 00:01:17,719 --> 00:01:21,159 So, before we get into the Jennifer Pendos case, Wendy, tell 16 00:01:21,239 --> 00:01:23,200 us a little bit about yourself, about where you grew up. You and 17 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:26,799 I were discovering that we're both I don't know if you like the word brat, 18 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:32,400 but we're both service brats. Tell us a little bit about your life, 19 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:34,439 where you're from, that sort of thing. Yeah, I grew up 20 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:38,599 in a military family. My dad was in the Coast Guard, so we 21 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:45,439 actually grew up in Yorktown, which is very close to Williamsburg. I lived 22 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,239 there for most of my childhood up until almost middle school. Moved to Boston. 23 00:01:51,359 --> 00:01:56,519 I lived on kit Cood and then Saint Louis and graduated high school and 24 00:01:56,879 --> 00:02:00,599 went to college, and then I joined the Air Force. My dad wouldn't 25 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:06,959 let me join the Coast Guard. He said everywhere he went to he was 26 00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:10,120 always put up in Air Force billeting, and we lived on Air Force bases, 27 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,439 and he said they treat their people the best. My intention was to 28 00:02:15,479 --> 00:02:20,520 go in for four years and used that to go to college, and that's 29 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,199 what I did. I lived in Montana and then I separated, got out 30 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,599 and became a police officer. So then how many years were you actually in 31 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,240 the Air Force? Was it just the four? Just the four? Yeah, 32 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,960 I knew, and my mom said, I always said that I was 33 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,960 going to be a police officer when I grew up, and I knew going 34 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,800 in, I wanted to do it for four years, get the training and 35 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,879 the education, and then come back and be a police officer. Before we 36 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,919 get into that, let me jump back to something here. Your dad was 37 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:58,120 assigned to Saint Louis. What kind of coast guard do we have in Saint 38 00:02:58,159 --> 00:03:02,319 Louis. I thought that was on the Missus. Yeah, they actually do 39 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,599 a lot on the Mississippi River. Yeah, and he was at the headquarters 40 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,879 there. He was a master chief my whole life. He was a master 41 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,479 chief. He was never on a boat when I was alive. Oh, 42 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:21,360 he wasn't. Oh he did spend some time up at Sue Saint Marie on 43 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,800 a boat when he first enlisted. But yeah, during my lifetime, he 44 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:30,479 was always at headquarters buildings, so he was directing people that were on boats. 45 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:34,639 But when you're the master chief, you're pretty high up, so you're 46 00:03:34,719 --> 00:03:38,039 one of the people that's in charge. Correct, Yeah, would you go 47 00:03:38,199 --> 00:03:44,039 to his office and see what it was like when your father was at work 48 00:03:44,199 --> 00:03:47,120 or were you exposed to that side of things. Oh? Absolutely. When 49 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:53,319 we lived in Boston, their office had like season tickets to the Bruins. 50 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:58,560 Oh nice, yeah, yeah, and they would like raffle the tickets off, 51 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:00,919 and when people could and go, they would give him to my dad. 52 00:04:01,159 --> 00:04:04,199 So I would actually go up with them in the morning and spend the 53 00:04:04,319 --> 00:04:09,319 day, and then we'd go to the game that night. Oh how fun? 54 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:13,879 Is this the old Boston Garden or am I dating myself now? It 55 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:17,199 was the old Garden? Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Of course, 56 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:24,079 my dad was a naval officer and his final active duty slot was running the 57 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,279 Armed Forces Police Department out of the old Boston Navy Yard. Okay, and 58 00:04:29,319 --> 00:04:32,800 this was his career was winding down and he was actually moving towards a career 59 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:39,439 in academia. This was during the time frame of the Boston Bruins Bobby Or. 60 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:45,800 That team was red hot, and we moved back to Lowell, Massachusetts, 61 00:04:45,879 --> 00:04:47,759 up north of Boston as we were heading into high school. So the 62 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:53,480 Bruins were a really big deal back then. Every kid in New England had 63 00:04:53,680 --> 00:05:00,519 Bobby Or flying through the air vertically having just scored yet another All for the 64 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,160 Bruins, and we would watch the Bruins on television, and we got a 65 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,160 chance to go to the old Boston Garden several times, and then of course 66 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,879 later as I got to be a teenager, that would be the place we'd 67 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,560 go to see concerts. I'm sure the New Boston Garden is great, but 68 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:17,639 I still have fond memories of We would take the train into North Station and 69 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:24,720 then the arena was upstairs, and you go up these long winding ramps, 70 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:28,959 huh to see the Bruins and the Celtics play there. Yeah. It was 71 00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:33,040 quite the experience, that's for sure. And then you were saying that it 72 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,279 was quite a contrast for you then, to go from a relatively small high 73 00:05:38,319 --> 00:05:44,639 school on Cape Cod to a big high school in Saint Louis. It was. 74 00:05:45,399 --> 00:05:49,040 Yeah. I have conversations sometimes with people that they live in the same 75 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:54,800 area of their whole entire life and they don't know anything different, and I 76 00:05:54,959 --> 00:06:00,920 really sometimes I long for that in that sense of home. But at the 77 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:06,439 same time, moving as much as we did, I was exposed to so 78 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:13,199 much diversity in different people and different cultures, and I see it as a 79 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,000 blessing now as an adult. I hated it as a kid. Every time 80 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:21,600 you made friends, you moved, But now it's just I'm so thankful for 81 00:06:21,639 --> 00:06:26,639 the experiences that I was able to have. Yeah, we really liked it. 82 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,800 There were four kids in my family, and yes, it is hard 83 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,160 to say goodbye to your friends, but we looked upon it as an adventure. 84 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,519 My dad would come home every two years back then, typically towards the 85 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,639 end of the school year, and we'd have a family meeting, and then 86 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,560 he would tell us where we were going to move. And this is before 87 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,519 the internet. We would then go typically we still had a few weeks left 88 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:50,839 in school, and of course we would go to the library a lot. 89 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,519 We'd go and read about the new place we were going. I remember we 90 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,439 look at pictures and get out the encyclopedia and look at maps. My mom 91 00:07:00,519 --> 00:07:02,759 and dad would show us where we were going to be living. It was 92 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,800 an adventure. And then the four of us as kids, three boys and 93 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,480 one girl, my younger sister Kathy, we'd pulled together and we'd be our 94 00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:15,759 own kind of gang. But a lot of times when we were moving, 95 00:07:16,079 --> 00:07:19,120 and I'm not sure if this happened as much for you. We would be 96 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,920 moving to places where there were lots of other military kids, so they had 97 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:29,680 a sense of the drill, and they also knew that it was important to 98 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,920 make friends and to make friends quickly and to be welcoming of the new kids. 99 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,839 Right in one or two places, we moved to towns where there were 100 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:43,759 not a lot of other military kids, and it was really noticeable. We 101 00:07:43,839 --> 00:07:47,360 moved to Deptford, New Jersey, because there was no housing available on the 102 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,279 Philadelphia Naval Base, so we were across the river in suburban New Jersey, 103 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,040 and these kids mostly had all grown up in that town, and they were 104 00:07:56,199 --> 00:08:01,920 incredibly unfriendly. They even called my older brother, Richard, Hawaii because we 105 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:05,560 had lived in Hawaii before then, just and they said where are you from? 106 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,240 And he said Hawaii, which is true. They actually didn't even call 107 00:08:09,319 --> 00:08:13,839 him by his name, Richard. They called him Hawaii because they'd never been 108 00:08:13,879 --> 00:08:18,480 anybody. Now here's a guy with red hair and fair skin and blue eyes. 109 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:24,360 It wasn't like he was a native of the Hawaiian Islands. The kids 110 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,839 were super unfriendly, just not nice. A few months later, housing became 111 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:33,360 available on the Philadelphia Naval Base, and we moved again, and the kids 112 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:35,519 there, who were all Navy and Marine Corps kids, they were like very 113 00:08:35,519 --> 00:08:39,159 welcoming. They knew what it was like to be the new kid. That 114 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:46,679 would happen every couple of years in most examples. So now you're the kid 115 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:50,759 unlike most of us, who knew what she wanted to do. You wanted 116 00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:54,120 to be in law enforcement. How did you get into law enforcement when you 117 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:58,480 got out of the Air Force. I came back to Virginia and I ended 118 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:05,080 up applying at a small local sheriff's office and I actually worked in the jail 119 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,759 there for a couple of years, and then I taught the DARE program. 120 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,919 I had gone to a school and met a guy who worked with James City 121 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,240 Police Department, and he just went on and on about how great of a 122 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:22,399 department it was and how I should go over and work for them, and 123 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,080 he sent me an application and I put in and that was it. That's 124 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,240 how I ended up with James City. So what year is it that you're 125 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:39,639 joining the James City, Virginia Police Department. It was two thousand and two 126 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,399 when I got hired in July of two thousand and two. And now help 127 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,240 us out for those of us that are not from Virginia, which includes me. 128 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Kristin Dilly, my podcast partner, would laugh. Why do we call 129 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:58,879 this place James City County. It's such an odd little name. I have 130 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:03,200 no idea. It's a very odd name. Yeah, but it is a 131 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,799 county police department, correct for James City County, which is not a city 132 00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:13,159 but a county. Correct. Okay, Yeah, it pretty much surrounds the 133 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,960 city of Williamsburg. Williamsburg is a super small city, and then James City 134 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:24,320 County surrounds Williamsburg. You would think I would know the story of why it 135 00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:28,960 is all that, but I do not. So does Williamsburg, Virginia have 136 00:10:30,039 --> 00:10:33,799 its own police force? They do, Yeah, they Williamsburg Police Department. 137 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:41,039 And so James City County is the surrounding area is around Williamsburg. Correct? 138 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,720 Is there cross jurisdiction or would you hand something off to Williamsburg PD if it 139 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:52,000 was within the city limits. Yeah, if it's within the city, then 140 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,120 the Williamsburg Police Department would handle it. Yeah. And I mean it's a 141 00:10:56,159 --> 00:11:01,559 weird area because there's also York County, So you can walk half a mile 142 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:09,360 and step foot in James City County, Williamsburg and York County. There are 143 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:13,080 so many places where one side of the road is York County and the other's 144 00:11:13,159 --> 00:11:18,759 James City, and there's so much that intertwines. Yeah, if it happens 145 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:22,679 in the city of Williamsburg, then the Williamsburg Police Department would handle it. 146 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:30,200 Yeah. The Jennifer Pendos case starts in February nineteen eighty seven, with the 147 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:35,840 disappearance of this fifteen year old girl from the Kings Mill Resort slash housing development. 148 00:11:37,879 --> 00:11:41,320 Tell us about your involvement with the case. So you're at the James 149 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:48,440 City County Police Department. How did you first hear about the Pandos case and 150 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,679 then how did you get involved officially? Yeah, there was a bulletin board 151 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:58,960 in our police department that important information would be posted on. And one day 152 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,240 I saw like a missing person's poster and it was for Jennifer and I had 153 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,639 her picture on there and that she had disappeared in eighty seven, and I 154 00:12:09,799 --> 00:12:13,159 was just like, that's weird. I'd never heard of it. I didn't 155 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:18,279 know anything about it. It was just this poster on the law and I 156 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,360 had been slated to go to the Investigations Division at that point. So I 157 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:28,480 talked with the major in charge of the investigations division and said, Hey, 158 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,879 what's the deal with this case? And can I look at it? And 159 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,639 he's yeah, sure, and he said the case file's missing, so we 160 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:43,720 don't really know a whole lot. In January of two thousand and six is 161 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:48,559 when I went to investigations, and it was shortly after that I was officially 162 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,600 assigned the case. Did you ask for the Pando's case as a result of 163 00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:56,519 that interest? I did, Yeah, I asked to work the case. 164 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:01,720 It's two thousand and six. That case took place originally in nineteen eighty seven. 165 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:07,320 It's probably considered a cold case at this point. I don't know if 166 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,840 people used that expression, did they at the time. I don't remember specifically 167 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,720 if it was classified as a cold case. We didn't have a cold case 168 00:13:16,759 --> 00:13:22,840 division at that point. I know it was being worked on sporadically, but 169 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,240 no, there was no cold case division. Later one was developed and I 170 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,519 was assigned to that, but at the time there was no cold case division. 171 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,320 But that was certainly what I would consider a cold case for sure. 172 00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:41,519 Now, what other sorts of cases were you working when you started in investigations. 173 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,159 In two thousand and six, I was assigned to basically violent crimes, 174 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,639 murders, ripe, robbery, things of that sort. Let's talk about this 175 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:58,399 missing case file. This figures prominently in the Burden of Proof documentary that's just 176 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:03,679 made its debut on HBO. Oh what did people say about the missing case 177 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:05,879 file? First of all, can you give us a rough idea? How 178 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:13,120 big would a case file be? For that case? You would expect probably 179 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:20,360 thirty pieces of paper fifty pieces of paper in it, depending on what the 180 00:14:20,399 --> 00:14:24,360 initial response was from the police department when she went missing. You would definitely 181 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,440 expect there to be some substance to that case file. Would it be in 182 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,399 a file folder or a box or they called us things red wells that are 183 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:43,039 expandable. What would it physically look like? Just a Manila folder? Our 184 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:48,960 records division at that point, unfortunately, was not what I would call secure. 185 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:56,240 Anybody could walk in there. Ouch. Yeah. It was before anything 186 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,639 was electronic, So all there was the paper or copies of the file. 187 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:07,360 The procedure to get a file was supposed to be you would go and request 188 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:13,000 the file and you would have to sign it out. There was only a 189 00:15:13,039 --> 00:15:16,279 clipboard next to the door and you would get the file and then write your 190 00:15:16,399 --> 00:15:20,679 name and the date and what file you have. But in order for that 191 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:26,039 to work, it's dependent on people actually doing what they're supposed to. Unfortunately, 192 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,159 with there not being any accountability to that, it went missing. Yeah, 193 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,759 and unlike cop shows that we watch on TV and enjoy, there isn't 194 00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:39,799 somebody there at the door, if you will, checking to make sure that 195 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:45,879 people signed the files in and out. No, absolutely not. It was. 196 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,759 There was a desk there for the record's clerk, but there was only 197 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:54,000 one of them and she couldn't be there all the time, so it was 198 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,639 basically left up to the integrity of the person to do what they were supposed 199 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:02,440 to do. And it's like, I'm not trying to be two pointed here, 200 00:16:03,039 --> 00:16:07,399 it sounds like things work sloppy back then, you said not secure. 201 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:12,080 Were people pretty investigators and others? Were they pretty informal about going in taking 202 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,440 a look at a file, bringing it back, but not necessarily doing the 203 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,960 whole clipboard thing. Absolutely, Yeah, it was very lax. It was 204 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,840 a small department at that point. There was less than one hundred officers for 205 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:33,639 the entire department. Yeah, and I think everybody was just complacent and oh, 206 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:36,519 that won't happen, or oh, I'll put it back when I'm done 207 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:41,559 with it, And unfortunately that didn't happen. And there were lots of theories 208 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:48,840 on what happened to the case file, some pretty outlandish, but yeah, 209 00:16:48,879 --> 00:16:56,320 it was definitely a challenge not having that what's an outlandish theory about what might 210 00:16:56,399 --> 00:17:00,679 have happened to the case file. One of the avenue that we did explore, 211 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:08,680 we were told that Ron Pandos, Jennifer's father, played golf with the 212 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:14,640 head of security from Kingsmill. Kings Mill, where the Pandos has lived, 213 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,880 has his own security division. Now it's a police department, but at that 214 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,039 point I believe it was only security. But we were told that Ron golfed 215 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,920 with the head of security there and it just so happened that his wife, 216 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,640 when Jennifer disappeared, was the head of the record's division or the James City 217 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:40,559 Police Department. So one of the theories was through Ron's relationship with the head 218 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:45,680 of security, he had his wife take the file to help Ron and Margie, 219 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:51,640 she was the record's clerk from then. She was interviewed and denied having 220 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,079 any part of that, but yeah, that was one of the one of 221 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,160 the theories of what happened to the case file. Does that se implausible but 222 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,960 it is plausible. Yeah, it could have happened, But I do not 223 00:18:06,079 --> 00:18:11,279 believe that's what happened at all now, although in the television series, I 224 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,680 believe it's Cynthia Hill, the director of the film, who was mostly off 225 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,920 camera. But someone asks you a question, and in my opinion, having 226 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,000 watched plenty of Truth Crime, you appear embarrassed for the department. Oh absolutely, 227 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:32,720 you indicate as such. How did you feel when you found out that 228 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:40,359 the file had magically reappeared. It's mixed feelings. I still remember exactly where 229 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,880 I was when I got the phone call and what I was doing, and 230 00:18:44,759 --> 00:18:48,920 I was elated when I got the phone call saying the file had been found. 231 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,920 I thought, for sure that would open up a lot of things that 232 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,880 we didn't know and give us more opportunity for investigation. I was no longer 233 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,720 assigned to the case. I had been promoted and was a supervisor in the 234 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,680 patrol division at that point, so I wasn't working the case, but I 235 00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:11,240 was still I was so excited. And then when that excitement died down. 236 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,319 It was like, what in the world happened? That's just crazy. Was 237 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:22,119 there ever an adequate explanation for where this case file went? How long a 238 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,920 period of time was the file in the Pendos case missing? Would you say, 239 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:30,160 oh, gosh, when I went to investigations in two thousand and six 240 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,000 it was gone. I don't know how long before that it had been gone, 241 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:42,240 And I'd say it was probably twenty sixteen when it was found. So 242 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:48,759 we're talking about a decade maybe this file was quote unquote missing. Yeah, 243 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,680 what were the circumstances of when the file was found? As you understand it. 244 00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:59,400 So, we had been in the we called the old police department in 245 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,079 tw more than six, very small building, no control over who went into 246 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:08,480 records who didn't. When I was assigned the case and the case file was 247 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:12,640 missing, I had met with the head of the records division at the time. 248 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:21,480 She searched the entire records room. Basically they were paper boxes full of 249 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,799 minili folders with the case files in it. She searched through every single box, 250 00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:30,880 every single file cabinet. Couldn't find it. A few years later, 251 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,640 we had a new police department built and were moving from the old police department 252 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,160 to the new one. During that time, she had told me they went 253 00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:45,319 through every single file. She said they opened up the files and actually looked 254 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:52,200 in them to make sure maybe the panda's case accidentally got stuffed inside and mislabeled. 255 00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:56,599 So they went through every file, every box before they moved, and 256 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:02,359 then when they were unpacking the files in the new building they also went through 257 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,119 them again and there was no sign of the case file. So it had 258 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,839 been searched for in the record's division three times, pretty thoroughly, and then 259 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,079 in the new department. The record's division is accessed with a key card, 260 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,160 so there is a little more accountability for it. And by that time we 261 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:26,279 were mostly electronic. You could access what you needed on the computer instead of 262 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,079 having to get the actual hard copy of the file. What I was told 263 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,319 was one day someone in the record's division went and opened up one of the 264 00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:41,440 paper boxes and there it was just sitting right flat on top, not as 265 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,440 you would think if there's fifty files in a paper box, they're all vertical 266 00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:48,759 so you can read the tabs on the files right, But this was laid 267 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:56,799 across the top, so pretty obvious. There was no investigation as to what 268 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:03,279 happened. There were theories of what happened. My personal opinion is someone was 269 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:07,519 complacent. They went and got the file to actually do something with it, 270 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:14,759 and probably stuck it in their desk or their file cabinet. And there was 271 00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:21,720 a couple people retiring around that time investigations, and in my opinion is that 272 00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:27,920 someone found it in their belongings and lacked the integrity to stand up and say, 273 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,759 hey, my bad, I have this and just stuck it in there, 274 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,440 knowing that someone would eventually run into it. Not necessarily malevolent, just 275 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:41,480 perhaps sloppy. And as you said, it was very informal back in the 276 00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:45,400 day. Someone went and got a file and they'd take it back to their 277 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,440 desk, and maybe they were working the case actively. I was thinking the 278 00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:53,319 same thing, and yeah, you can go with all the ron pandos playing 279 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,519 golf with the head of security theories you want, but I think most of 280 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:03,880 the time it's sort of screw up, if you will. Was someone accidentally 281 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,240 sticks the case file and as you described it, it wasn't that large. 282 00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:11,640 It wasn't like it was a banker's box full of files. It was a 283 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:18,000 Manilla folder with documents in it. Which could have been misplaced. Yeah, 284 00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:22,599 I definitely don't believe it was anything malicious, Like you said, I think 285 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:29,000 it was sloppy, unprofessional, just lax. Yeah, it's just it's so 286 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,920 embarrassing, it really is. You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be 287 00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:44,279 right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder, 288 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,119 switching gears for a second. One of our takeaways Kristen and mine from 289 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:55,440 watching the documentary was that we felt that Ron and Margy Pendo's odd response. 290 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,799 I will call it what I believe it to be, and remember we lived 291 00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:06,200 through this with my sister Kathy's murder. I felt like the Pandos's response, 292 00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:11,720 as described in the television series and all the articles we read to Jennifer's disappearance 293 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:19,079 was extremely odd. Do you feel that their response to Jennifer's disappearance made them 294 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:26,039 look like suspects, particularly Ron the father from the beginning? Absolutely. When 295 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,839 I say from the beginning, I take that as when I got it, 296 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,440 So it's the beginning for me. Yeah, And I didn't know what their 297 00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:41,559 responses and reactions were when it initially occurred in nineteen eighty seven, but yeah, 298 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:47,960 what I had to go off of was a lot of people's memories from 299 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,200 nineteen years before, and probably a lot of like the game of telephone. 300 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,440 I heard this and I heard that, and yeah, the things I was 301 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:03,000 hearing was definitely suspicious that they responded in the way they did or didn't respond, 302 00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:07,119 Yeah, it was. It definitely made it seem suspicious. And I 303 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:15,039 think a lot of times we look at things from our own perspective and our 304 00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:22,039 own experiences, and everybody's different and are going to have different reactions to things, 305 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:25,920 and I think sometimes we get stuck in the mindset of that's not what 306 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,519 I would have done, So that's weird. Yeah, but yeah, a 307 00:25:29,519 --> 00:25:33,440 lot of things that they did it did seem suspicious and cast a lot of 308 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:41,119 doubt onto what their involvement was. One of the things that really shocked us 309 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:45,279 was as the series unfolds, and of course, the four part television series 310 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:52,920 is told roughly in chronological order, and it's amazing to see footage from investigations 311 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,519 and interviews all the way back to twenty sixteen, if my memory serves, 312 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:06,240 But as the story unfold, it appears that Margie Jennifer's mother actually has additional 313 00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:11,559 valuable pieces of evidence in her possession that have never been turned over to law 314 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:17,960 enforcement. For example, if I understood the series correctly, they had the 315 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,839 original copy of the note correct that was left, so that meant that law 316 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:30,359 enforcement had a photocopy of it. Yeah. Honestly, I don't remember offhand 317 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,440 if there was a photo copy of the note in the original pace file that 318 00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:42,559 ended up being located, but yeah, she definitely had the origin the original 319 00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:48,440 note. Yeah. And then later on these letters to and from Jennifer, 320 00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:55,000 their teenage daughter, are produced, and they are in a box that Margie 321 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:59,680 has been holding on to for more than thirty years. This struck me as 322 00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:06,480 pro foundly odd, particularly since so much of the discussion of the case and 323 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:11,559 this note that was found at the time of Jennifer's disappearance that switches back and 324 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,519 forth between first and third person, so some of it sounds like it's written 325 00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:18,799 by Jennifer, some of it sounds like it's written by someone else. Since 326 00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:26,759 language and handwriting end up being so pivotal, I was baffled that Margie would 327 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:33,880 be sitting on letters to and from her daughter for over thirty years without ever 328 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,200 thinking I should show these to the investigators. How did you feel about that, 329 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:48,720 Yeah, it was frustrating. Marchie was never super forthcoming. She would 330 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:53,640 provide things if they were specifically asked for, but yeah, there was no 331 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:02,160 urgency on her part to be proactive in the investigation. When I originally started 332 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,759 talking to her and Stephen, I asked about physical abuse in the home and 333 00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:12,240 abuse in the home and was told no, there was none, and I 334 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:18,400 can understand not wanting to admit that, but at the same time, in 335 00:28:18,519 --> 00:28:22,319 order to effectively work a case, you have to have the truth. So 336 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:29,759 it was frustrating to find out later the extent of the abuse that was happening 337 00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:33,519 in the home and find out a lot of things that would have been helpful 338 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,200 if I would have had them initially during the investigation. Did you feel that 339 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:45,960 Stephen was also not forthcoming. I he had said initially there wasn't any abuse 340 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,319 in the home, and I think that if you grow up in a certain 341 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:59,200 environment that that becomes your reality. And maybe at the time he didn't consider 342 00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:04,640 that to be abuse. I don't know, or maybe it was just I 343 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,240 fully remember sitting in Margie's living room with her and Stephen, and I asked, 344 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,720 Stephen, what do you think happened to your sister, And he said, 345 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,480 she ran away? And I said, why do you think that? 346 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,720 And he said, I don't have any reason to believe otherwise. So I 347 00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:25,119 think he was in the dark for all of those years, and I wouldn't 348 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:32,279 say that he wasn't forthcoming. I think probably initially he didn't maybe believe that 349 00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:37,359 what he had gone through was abuse, because that was just his reality growing 350 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:44,920 up. One of the fascinating aspects of Burnaproof is watching Stephen's view of the 351 00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:52,480 case change over the years. He seems much more willing now to admit that 352 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:59,279 his father was incredibly abusive physically and emotionally, but that maybe not where he 353 00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:04,319 was as a younger man. At some point he said something about everything I 354 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,359 was led to believe in the first twenty two years of this case is wrong. 355 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:15,519 So that's a big revelation to see him go through and his viewpoint that 356 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:22,519 first of all, my sister ran away, and then later thinking for years 357 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:27,799 it would appear that his father is directly responsible for his sister's disappearance and likely 358 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,680 murder, and that his mother is involved in a cover up or is complicit 359 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:38,880 somehow, and then later you begin to see that He's come around, as 360 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:44,119 have others, to the view that wait a minute, those stories are all 361 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,359 wrong. She didn't run away. Perhaps Ron Pandos, the father is not 362 00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:56,119 involved in her disappearance, unlikely homicide, which steers us to other suspects. 363 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,920 But watching that journey, and I'm sure there are hundreds of hours of footage 364 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:07,000 of Stephen and you and so many other people all taking this personal and investigative 365 00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:14,119 journey. It's one of the most interesting aspects of the show. Do you 366 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,599 think it would have made a difference if law enforcement, for example, had 367 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:26,880 had the original note? Absolutely? Yeah, I worry though. I agree 368 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,559 with you, But I worry though that the original note would have been put 369 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:37,799 away accidentally, let's say in the legendary missing file folder for all of those 370 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,759 years, and there were no backups or duplicates of much of this material. 371 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,960 Is that a fair statement. Yes, Yeah, that's definitely a fair statement. 372 00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:52,880 Our situations like that better now, Wendy than they were back then. 373 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,000 In terms of I WinCE when I hear about, oh, these documents are 374 00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,799 missing, and I think to myself, there's no extra copy, there's no 375 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:06,759 electronic copy, there's no nothing. Yeah, it's definitely better now. I 376 00:32:06,839 --> 00:32:14,279 know that, especially with the way that technology has advanced over the last fifteen 377 00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:20,079 years or so. Now reports are all done on the computer and they're automatically 378 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,599 just uploaded and there's an electronic copy of it, where when Jennifer disappeared it 379 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,119 was just handwritten, and if something happened to the copy, you've got a 380 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:37,400 lot. So it's definitely I think much more of the secure situation now. 381 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,440 So here's a question for you, if you were to start working this case 382 00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:47,480 today, where would you start. If I had all of the information, 383 00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:52,160 I would probably start where I started before, with the parents, but there 384 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,599 was also information in that case that leads you to other places too that I 385 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,960 didn't have that information when I work it. Yeah, I would still definitely 386 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,960 look at the parents, because there's still been a lot of suspicious things that 387 00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:12,319 have happened with the parents, with things that they have said and things that 388 00:33:12,359 --> 00:33:15,000 have happened during the investigation. So yeah, I would still start with them, 389 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:22,759 but there were definitely more investigative avenues that would have been approached. Our 390 00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:28,000 investigators in the Colonial Parkway murders have said to me over the years, Bill, 391 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,720 no one's really cleared in a homicide investigation, and that's I don't think 392 00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:37,559 Jennifer's walking through the door tomorrow, so I believe this is a homicide. 393 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:43,759 So no one's really cleared until the murder is cleared. That is, we've 394 00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:47,759 identified a suspect and brought him or hurt to trial. As I understand it, 395 00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:52,400 people are on the likely list, that is, the short list of 396 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:58,000 people who are most likely suspects, and the less likely list. Ron Pandos, 397 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,440 Margie Pandos and other have been mentioned as potential suspects, and it makes 398 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,679 perfect sense. Do you feel like the Pendo's parents would be on that less 399 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:15,119 likely list? At this point when you talk to people that know the case, 400 00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:22,519 it seems pretty split that some people, some investigators and some officers believe 401 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,280 yeah, the parents may have something to do with it, and others believe 402 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,480 no, it's the boyfriend. And I think there's evidence that points to all 403 00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:37,039 of them less likely or more likely. It's hard to say, really. 404 00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:42,320 If it were to go to court, say, if the boyfriend was charged, 405 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,480 I think it would be super hard to get a conviction because of just 406 00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:52,920 the circumstantial evidence against the parents and the doubt that would raise, the same 407 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:58,880 as if Ron were to be charged and go to court, there's evidence and 408 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:05,719 circumstantial evidence events against the boyfriend that would lead to doubt. So it's a 409 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:10,599 hard question to answer as far as less likely suspects. I think with the 410 00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:16,400 information now, it's just there's a likelihood that anybody could have done it. 411 00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:22,840 Wow, So you find yourself in a very frustrating place even now in twenty 412 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:30,480 twenty three. Absolutely, yeah, I just there's clues pointing to different people, 413 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:39,760 and it's hard to really settle on a belief as to who did it. 414 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,880 It's referenced in this series that you were working on a book on the 415 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,880 Jennifer Pandos disappearance. Are you still working on a book? I am. 416 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,239 We've had to start over a couple of times. Initially, what I wanted 417 00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:02,559 to do was tell my story of my journey along working this case and what 418 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:08,679 I ended up learning about Jennifer. And then when the documentary came along, 419 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:15,320 they delved into that, and I found that what I revealed during interviews with 420 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:21,000 them, and a lot of that obviously wasn't aired, but I revealed a 421 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,360 lot of that during the interviews, and a book would be redundant, I 422 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,920 think, So we changed the approach to that to be. I'm not sure 423 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:37,039 if you're familiar with Patricia Cornwell or not, but she wrote a book called 424 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:40,320 All That Remains, Yeah, which is clearly based on the Colonial Parkway murders 425 00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:50,159 exactly. Yeah, And while it is deemed as being fiction, it is 426 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:57,719 very much based on actual events. It has recently turned into that sort of 427 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:04,000 approach. Well, I wouldn't say it's in its infancy. Yeah, it's 428 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,159 I'm still working on it, and it's something that i'd like to get out 429 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:15,039 there eventually, but right now that's not writing a book is not a priority 430 00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:19,360 in my life, I guess right now. But it is something that I 431 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,760 would like out there at some point. We've discussed All That Remains, and 432 00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:30,159 I've never spoken directly to Patricia Cornwall, but it's very clear I'm considered the 433 00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:36,440 greatest expert outside of law enforcement in the Colonial Parkway murders. And it's not 434 00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:40,400 a role I sought, but it's just developed. But I remember being shocked 435 00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:46,159 when I finally went out and bought a seventy five cent used copy of the 436 00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:52,800 paperback of All That Remains and read the book. I was floored. It 437 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:59,760 is the Colonial Parkway murders, and in particular, one of the homicides is 438 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:07,760 in so much detail, I believe that it is quite possible that Patricia Cornwall 439 00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:15,679 had a significant amount of non public information about that particular murder, which is 440 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:21,079 considered part of the series in the Colonial Parkwy murders. I know the case 441 00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:25,400 backwards and forwards when you get into that level of detail, and I think 442 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:31,239 I've read every article, listened to every podcast, watched every interview, and 443 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:37,280 I'm hearing and seeing things that just still aren't part of the public discussion. 444 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,199 And I think to myself, that's interesting. If Patricia Cornwall wants to discuss 445 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,920 it with me, she's welcome to reach out. I am highly confident that 446 00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:52,840 the case as described in all that remains. She may have switched the order 447 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,320 around, and the lesbian couple aren't the first ones killed, and it's not 448 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,239 one two, three four, but it's definitely the same case, and the 449 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:08,079 amount of detail is very striking. You might want to jump off then into 450 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:14,800 more of a fictional version of what might have happened in the Pando's disappearance. 451 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,760 Yeah, and I agree with you one hundred percent. You and I had 452 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,480 talked earlier about the fact that Jennifer lived very close to the Colonial Parkway. 453 00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:29,719 Yes, and that was one of the investigative avenues I took pretty early in 454 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:35,679 the case, was did she find herself on the Parkway and become a victim 455 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,840 there? I was allowed through that investigation to see the case files through the 456 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,400 Colonial Parkway murders. And Yeah, I agree with you one hundred percent that 457 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:52,760 that book is very accurate with a lot of facts that aren't public knowledge, 458 00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:58,280 or certainly weren't back then. In other words, we've done a ton of 459 00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:02,760 press and media. We did a four part television series, The Lover's Land 460 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,719 Murders on Oxygen, and I've been very outspoken, as have other family members 461 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,679 about the details because we're trying to push the FBI in the Virginia State Police. 462 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,239 When the book came out, which I think is nineteen ninety two, 463 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,719 a lot of that information wasn't publicly available. Yeah, and I know that 464 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:30,239 she had reached out to people in law enforcement and talked about the case with 465 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,039 them and talked about just different aspects of law enforcement in the area and things 466 00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,400 like that. How she got the information, who knows, But yeah, 467 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:45,159 it was very striking how accurate Some of it was, And really, Jennifer's 468 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:50,239 case is pretty much an open book at this point in the documentary, Stephen 469 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,440 going through all of these papers and things, and he was able to get 470 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,800 the case file from when I took over the case, as far as I 471 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:04,639 know, has not been able to foil the original case file that was lost, 472 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:12,360 but my understanding is that he does have a copy of it. It's 473 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:19,360 frustrating to some extent from an investigative standpoint that things like that do find their 474 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,800 way to people who are not investigating it. From a law enforcement standpoint, 475 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:31,079 and why people leak things, you never know what someone's motive is. Unfortunately, 476 00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:36,800 sometimes information that you wouldn't want out in the public ends up being there. 477 00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:42,000 Jennifer's case is pretty much an open book. I think the only way 478 00:41:42,119 --> 00:41:46,320 for me to portray a story in a book form is to make it fiction 479 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,679 and take some liberties as to what happened, because in the end we have 480 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,800 no idea. Really, at this point, do you think Jennifer Pando's disappearance 481 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:04,000 can be solved? I think it absolutely. Whether or not it will is 482 00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:10,440 another story. You and I talked earlier about politics in agencies and whether or 483 00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:15,280 not this case from nineteen eighty seven is a priority for the James City County 484 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,800 Police Department. Right now, I can't say I don't know. I know 485 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:27,239 that there are things that can be done still from an investigative standpoint, that 486 00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:34,400 aren't being done, haven't been done, and probably won't be. In a 487 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,599 perfect world, you'd have unlimited resources to be able to investigate things, and 488 00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:45,559 unfortunately, in the real world, it's not like that. Wendy, thank 489 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:51,480 you so much for taking some time to talk with us. We really appreciate 490 00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:55,000 it. We hope you'll consider coming back with us as things develop anytime. 491 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,400 Anytime that's going to do it for this episode of Mine Over Murder. As 492 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,559 always, thanks for listening. Kristin Dilly will be back next time, so 493 00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:08,039 if you miss her as much as I do, she'll definitely be back when 494 00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:14,679 she returns from her beachside vacation. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you 495 00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:29,800 next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog 496 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,719 Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilly. Our logo art 497 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,880 is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. Mind Over 498 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,159 Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. You can follow us on 499 00:43:45,199 --> 00:43:50,159 Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow our page on the 500 00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:54,039 Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on 501 00:43:54,119 --> 00:44:00,559 Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for listening to Mine Over Murder