WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:05.360 It's the future stable coins. You know, whether Ripple is as good or 2 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:09.880 better than PayPal or you know, Circle, et cetera. It's all around 3 00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:15.000 user adoption and what we as the people and businesses, decide to do. 4 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.600 So, I think, you know, there's still a long way to go 5 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:21.559 before we get to that. I think stable coins are such a low percentage 6 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:31.879 of the money out there. This content is brought to you by bitgo, 7 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:36.799 which is one of the top crypto custodians in the crypto industry. Bitco works 8 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:41.600 with many big companies and brands such as Pantera Capital, Bitstamp, and bitcoin 9 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:48.240 Ira. Nike also selected Bitgo to power its wallets for its NFTs and bitco 10 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:52.960 has many great services such as hot wallets, custodial wallets, self managed cold 11 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:58.799 wallets, and NFT wallets. Many institutions trust bitgo with its top level security 12 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.120 and incredible services such as being able to deploy your capital while it's in custody, 13 00:01:03.319 --> 00:01:07.239 which includes lending, borrowing, tradings, taking DeFi access and more. 14 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:11.359 If you'd like to learn more about bitco, please visit bitgo dot com link 15 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:15.040 in the description. Welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony 16 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.879 Edward, and with me today is Anthony Welfare, who's the CEO and founder 17 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:25.760 of the Commercializing Blockchain Research Center known as the CBRC. Anthony, you welcome, 18 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:30.239 Hi, Tony, Hi everyone, pleasure to be here. Thank you. 19 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.760 Yeah, Anthony, excited to speak with you. You're building some cool 20 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:38.840 things and you've got a lot of experiencing cryptos, so want to get your 21 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.560 perspectives on different items. Let's start with your background, where you're from and 22 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:47.560 what's your professional background. Yeah, so I've been I'm actually from a retail 23 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:51.000 background from a long time. So we had a family shot back in is 24 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:56.159 actually from nineteen twenty four, so it's one hundred years. Doesn't exist in 25 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.680 the family now unfortunately. But around the seven eight years ago I moved into 26 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:07.400 crypto and blockchain and I was in previously in retail career. As I said, 27 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:13.520 and you know what is this block This bitcoin and blockchain and ethereum was 28 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:16.080 just coming out in twenty sixteen or so, so it was that, well, 29 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:21.240 why aren't we using this in retail and global retailers. I was working 30 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:25.520 with global brands and it's like payments really easy, one currency, you know, 31 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:31.199 tracking products and those sorts of things. So I joined Oracle Corporation back 32 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:37.360 in twenty sixteen seventeen, did a few projects with them, launching track and 33 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:44.960 trace and enterprise blockchain solutions, and moved to DXC Technology. I was global 34 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:50.120 Managing Director for the blockchain practice, and there we did around about fifty projects 35 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:55.520 on enterprise blockchain, track and trase, payments, you know, anything token, 36 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.000 you know, tokenization and bonds and securities and all this, and bear 37 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:05.159 in mind this is like five years ago, so it was really interesting. 38 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:10.680 But everything in enterprise was about enterprise blockchain, hyper ledge of fabric and corder. 39 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:15.639 Really ethereum was trying not to use it. So I was started thinking 40 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:21.240 that we need public blockchain and the whole you know, bigger picture of hybrid 41 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:24.800 blockchain. So in twenty nineteen, I think it was around about then I 42 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:32.840 moved to them Protocol and we launched Symbol Platform, which was a hybrid enterprise 43 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:39.560 enterprise platform for big business but the public in private, which is really important 44 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:47.840 for blockchain success. And then in twenty twenty summer twenty twenty, I ended 45 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:54.800 up joining Ripple, so John Ripple looking after cbdc's and stable coins and spent 46 00:03:54.840 --> 00:04:00.960 around about three years at Ripple, sort of moving movie the whole CBDC world 47 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:04.280 from you know, crypto is it good? Is it bad? Through to 48 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:10.599 actually working in central banks, which was amazing experience because you're you're from a 49 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:14.840 crypto basis, but you're talking to some of the most important people in the 50 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:17.879 world central banks. They control our money, they control everything that we do, 51 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:23.399 so really interesting time. And then you know, obviously I'm on to 52 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:29.399 CBRC now. And you did spend some time working on Etherorem you mentioned and 53 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.560 you were a founding member of the Enterprise Etherorem Alliance. Is that right? 54 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:39.560 Yeah, So back in I think twenty sixteen seventeen, Enterprise the Theorem Alliance 55 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:43.759 was just being started and I sort of was in retail and I was like, 56 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:48.079 why don't we do supply chain with Ethereum, And so I joined as 57 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:54.759 sort of one of the founded members but looking after or set up the supply 58 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:59.639 chain working group in the Enterprise the Theorem Alliance. It didn't last long. 59 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.439 I moved on to Oracle and things changed, and you know, I couldn't 60 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:05.800 do much, but it was to try and get the sort of whole supply 61 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:11.600 chain and ethere and working together which was again a bit ahead of its time, 62 00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:15.759 I think, but really interesting project to work on. I mean, 63 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.879 that's amazing. You were part of a theorem at Ripple, you did some 64 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:24.040 work with them. That's a lot of experience I'm sure you accrued over those 65 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:30.199 years working on these big projects. So how did the idea for this CBRC 66 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:35.399 come about? Yeah, so Commercializing Blockchain Research Center is from the book that 67 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:41.199 I wrote in twenty nineteen, which is Commercializing Blockchain. So back in twenty 68 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:47.040 nineteen, between Oracle and DXC, I was thinking, you know, people 69 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:51.759 need to understand a bit more about enterprise blockchain and less about crypto in the 70 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:57.959 big business world. And so I've got thirteen contributors, said, let's write 71 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.600 about what's actually happening. Real use case is back in you know, sort 72 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.959 of three four years ago, so they're are on finance and supply chain really, 73 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:12.959 so it's same sort of a sort of narrative back then, and then 74 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:15.519 fast forward to sort of twenty twenty four and it's that, well, that's 75 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:19.519 great, the book's great, But there's been a lot of use cases since 76 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:25.240 then, and things have progressed. Bigger, more scaled NFTs have come in 77 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:29.560 defil all this this sort of new stuff. So it to be fair, 78 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:32.079 Wiley was saying, write another book. And if you've written a book, 79 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:38.480 Tony, it's hard. It's a lot of time, and I don't think 80 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:43.000 people really appreciate how much work goes into, you know, just a few 81 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.279 bits of paper. So I thought, actually, why don't I set up 82 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:51.000 a research center and make the book live inverted commas. So we've basically set 83 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:56.199 up the CBRC register, so it's a use case register, and what that 84 00:06:56.360 --> 00:07:01.800 is is basically we researched the blockchainatural projects. They could be you know, 85 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:06.839 pilot launched, you know so, but they're actually give it. There's some 86 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:11.439 reality about the project in some way. It's been used, it's been launched, 87 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:15.120 it's piloted, et cetera. We've got a scoring criteria, so basically 88 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:20.720 it's not about what's good what's bad. It's about blockchain applicability. So you 89 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:25.319 know, one hundred of the maximums one hundred. If you scored a one 90 00:07:25.399 --> 00:07:30.319 hundred, that means your project is perfect blockchain. It's not about it's the 91 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.600 best project. It might be a terrible project commercially on things like that, 92 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:39.920 but if it's using blockchain for the reasons you know that that blockchains set up. 93 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:45.879 So it's basically a resource now where you can go to it research, 94 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:47.959 you know, have a look at what's happening. It's it's sort of sorted 95 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:53.759 by layer one, so you can check athereum or xrp ledge a bitcoin, 96 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:59.360 et cetera. And then by sort of category, track and trace financial transactions, 97 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.199 you know, those sorts of things. So there's around about one hundred 98 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:05.480 use cases that you know, we did a soft launch back in February, 99 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:11.160 and then there's about ten very five Now the verified use cases the really interesting 100 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.480 ones. So that means that our team has scored them, verified them, 101 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:20.600 spoken to the project team, and then myself for one of the senior team 102 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.000 has actually done an interview in a video, and I think that's that sort 103 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.160 of gives you then a real life it's about half an hour video of talking 104 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.679 to the founders or the project team. What did you do, why did 105 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.559 you do it? How does it work? Why using blockchain? And anybody 106 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.159 sort of into blockchain and setting these things up. Now, it's really interesting 107 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.759 because you can see some of these people, you know, some I've known 108 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:46.600 for a few years and they're actually using blockchain and have been for a long 109 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:52.960 time. So it's a really useful place to find about real blockchain in the 110 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:58.080 real world. I love that idea because you know, there's so much noise 111 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.799 in this industry and that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just it is 112 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:03.840 what it is, right, it comes with the territory. And if I'm 113 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.799 a business and I'm looking for blockchain solutions, I want to filter through that 114 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:13.360 noise. I want to come to a site like yours to be able to 115 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.039 validate a project and go through that learning and discovery process, and you're doing 116 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.919 a lot of the vetting, so that's really great. And then I can 117 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.279 filter by the use cases. So if I want to use it like tracking 118 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:28.080 and supply chain management or whatever else, right, I have that resource. 119 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.519 Yeah, No, definitely, that's the point of it there, so that 120 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.879 people don't you know, it's hard to find real projects in the in the 121 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.919 noise because of crypto, because crypto is the noisy parts of blockchain, you 122 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.919 know, fair well, it's it's about money, speculation, et cetera. 123 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:50.279 But the interesting thing we've done recently is we've signed an agreement with the European 124 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.399 University and they're going to take the scoring metrics and build a scoring panel, 125 00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:00.480 so basically the CBS score will then be not my team, it'll be a 126 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:05.519 wider team of academics and experts. So probably by the end of this year, 127 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:07.360 hopefully by the end of twenty twenty four, we'll have that setup, 128 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:13.519 so that then you'll start to see more projects can come through because at the 129 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:18.879 moment we're restrained with resource. Everything life is all about resources and how you 130 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.559 can get through these. So we've now got the process working. They're looking 131 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.960 at AI how we can automate some of these things, and basically they're going 132 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:30.840 to put together a team that can score this and so we can have more 133 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:35.120 and more projects on it, so you can even check more details and see 134 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.840 more about it. Because my world has always been what is blockchain and why 135 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.720 is it being used? That's what I set you off in twenty sixteen to 136 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.600 do, and I've seen a million projects it feels like, but still everybody 137 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:52.320 goes blockchain doesn't do anything, or blockchain is bitcoin, and it's like, 138 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.720 no, there is so much to it. So it's give people this real 139 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.559 resource that's referenced and with the university, it'll be academically verified, which is 140 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.000 you know, a really good process and step forward. Absolutely, and then 141 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:11.240 you have in addition to your scoring system certificates, right, and it's issued 142 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:16.919 on the XRP ledger. Yeah, exactly. So the projects that are scored, 143 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:22.840 they then get a verified certificate and it's verified via the XRP ledger. 144 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:26.120 So in essence, you know, there's a PDF certificate which doesn't sit on 145 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.120 chain because it's not good to put things like that on chain at the stage, 146 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.840 but there's a reference on XRP ledger of the project, the score and 147 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:41.799 just a little bit of information and it gives you then a real and mutable, 148 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:45.440 you know, truth that this project scored this and is this type of 149 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:50.399 projects. So it's using blockchain for one of its it's sort of you know, 150 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:56.159 most basic uses, but notorization certification of things. Imagine if we had 151 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:00.200 this on the likes of LinkedIn for our qualifications and things. You know, 152 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:05.120 you get your university, your college qualifications, but does anyone really know that 153 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.039 you went there? Does anyone really know you did these things? So what 154 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.000 chain? Back in twenty sixteen, this was one of the first things I 155 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:16.919 thought, and I remember I did one of my first presentations in twenty seventeen 156 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.919 and I said, you know, LinkedIn will disappear because everything will be verified 157 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:28.879 on chain. LinkedIn is still around and it's not verifying yet, but the 158 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.320 technology is there to do it. And I think as we progress now in 159 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:35.799 the next you know, a few years, I think you'll start to grow. 160 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:41.080 I think enterprise blockchain is growing significantly quicker than people think, and that's 161 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.480 what the register helps to show you. There's a lot more happening than you 162 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:48.559 realize. A quick follow up question on that LinkedIn taught thought because this is 163 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.399 something I've been thinking about as well, where we need social profiles in the 164 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.879 blockchain because there's so many fake accounts, there's so many bots, there's so 165 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:01.720 many impersonators having a podcast and a brand, get so many people impersonating me 166 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.480 trying to scam people. But if there was a way for people to verify 167 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.960 with the blockchain integrated, you know, behind the scenes, is a one 168 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:13.799 click dialogue, you know, or this has a check market's verified on the 169 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.879 blockchain and people can look at that. That would change the social media internet 170 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:24.080 world significantly. Yeah, massively. I think the the verification of truth, 171 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:30.919 the verification of you know, information is the next stage, and I think 172 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.080 you need AI to do that though as well. I think this is this 173 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:37.159 is where the two merge together. And I know there's a lot of hype 174 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.919 in AI, and I you know, I'm not necessarily saying AI should be 175 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:46.480 valued at what it's valued, et cetera. But if you use AI on 176 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.240 information that's from you know, that's verified on the blockchain, then you're actually 177 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.039 using information that's more verified. And I was interested. I was with a 178 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.200 professor from Singapore University a few weeks ago, and I was and he's an 179 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:03.759 AI expert, and I was saying, how do we marry this, how 180 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.799 do we get rid of fake news? How do we prove that Tony's interview 181 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.639 is Tony's interview? And he said, well, what will happen eventually is 182 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.559 things that are real will be tagged as non AI or something. And again, 183 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.279 that's where you can probably use blockchain to say this is verified by a 184 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.720 person and use it in that way. And you know, even you can 185 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:31.480 use timestamps and everything. So's the technology is there, it's about making it 186 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.679 easy for us to use. And I'm not sure that piece has been thought 187 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:39.039 through yet, but there's a lot of people look at that now because it's 188 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.039 it's definitely the most important thing of you know, fake news and people stealing 189 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:48.519 you know, social media and content. It's it's a massive issue. But 190 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:54.200 if everything, every piece of data, video, photography was was sort of 191 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:00.519 embedded in blockchain from the moment is published, you can always then track it 192 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.679 back to where it is. And I think that process is the bit that 193 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:07.679 needs to be worked on because of the scale. I dread to think that 194 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:13.639 the size of giga whatever they're called gigabytes, z bites whatever of data, 195 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:18.200 So you need something that's going to be very clever, and I think AI 196 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.799 will probably help to do that piece of information. So as soon as you 197 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.200 hit you know, pause on the record or you published this video, it 198 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.919 gets tagged and then the credit always goes back to Tony and then we know 199 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.720 it's a real video. So definitely, definitely the next few months, I 200 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:41.000 think we'll see more interesting projects and sort of progress in that. And when 201 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.000 do you think this is a hard question, you know, is a tipping 202 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.840 point for these Web two companies like LinkedIn and the social networks to transition fully 203 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.279 to Web three where they have the blockchain integration is it like five to eight 204 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:58.039 years away, or you think it happens sooner. It depends on us, 205 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:02.559 the people, the citizens and humans, what we trust and what we don't 206 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:10.120 trust. So if we keep on using Facebook or LinkedIn or whichever and just 207 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.519 blindly agreeing with it and signing up to those million pages of terms and conditions, 208 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:21.279 that basically means nothing's yours and you've given everything away, which is insane, 209 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:26.600 and we're going to sell your data and unfortunately, we as humans as 210 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:30.320 the whole, we're doing that. So unfortunately, I think you've probably talking 211 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:36.159 nearer the eight years rather than nearer to five years. I think the technology 212 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:40.159 will be there. Interesting in crypto world, there's quite a few sort of 213 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.679 blockchain based social medias that have been out. I mean, there was, 214 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.360 you know, back in twenty seventeen. I think it's called stream or something 215 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.799 like that. Streamer. I think it's still around, but it was not 216 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:56.480 easy to use it awful, so why would you use it? And I 217 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.000 think that's still the hook with a lot of things in cryptos. I don't 218 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.039 want to MetaMask to make a payment. I just want to make a payment 219 00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:07.279 like I do with my credit card, right, I don't want to have 220 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.319 to log on to say I remember with stream, I lost my account because 221 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.079 it's on a laptop somewhere and it's that wallet and that's it and it wasn't 222 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:19.039 transport, but I can tell it on my phone. So those things need 223 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:23.599 to be fixed first. Then I think mass adoption and you know, I 224 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:29.319 don't know what Meta is doing Facebook with with you know, the millions billions 225 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:33.279 that they've spent, but they should really just be looking at how to implement 226 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:37.079 blockchain as the base. It would be so much cheaper and easier for them 227 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.400 because they've already got the currents, they've got the you know, we all 228 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:44.400 use Facebook, Twitter or you know Facebook or you know, WhatsApp. So 229 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.839 but definitely it's not as quick as I would want. But it's going to 230 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.119 progress, and it all depends on us and what we decide. If we 231 00:17:53.160 --> 00:18:00.240 still stop using Facebook, they'll have to change. Fortunately. Yeah, no, 232 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.839 that's a great point. Now, tell us a bit more about the 233 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:11.920 scoring system for the different companies are you know, is it like a fifty 234 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.839 point checklist? You know, what are some of the things that you look 235 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.160 at to validate these companies? Yes, so there's there's ten sort of metrics, 236 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.960 and there's a scale for the metrics of sort of one to five. 237 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.039 So it seems like so if you look at one of the metrics is around 238 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:32.559 you know are there are there lots of data silos in different companies. Okay, 239 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:34.920 so if it's you know one, is like, no, there's just 240 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:40.440 one data silo, great, you don't need blockchain for that. The number 241 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:45.640 five would be there's data silos in three hundred different companies and trying to connect 242 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:51.000 that data and stuff is Yeah, blockchain would be amazingly useful for that. 243 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.920 So there's different sort of measures. There's around about ten metrics and then the 244 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.400 scales are sort of a lot more detailed than the high level said, but 245 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.400 they go through to that sort of checking. So again, as I said, 246 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:10.079 it's around blockchain applicability rather than this is a great, amazing project. 247 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:15.799 It's not about validating a project, it's validating its use of blockchain. Yeah, 248 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:21.200 that makes sense. And when you approach the different blockchain projects out there, 249 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:25.160 how are you pitching them about this? And is there a fee that 250 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.400 they have to pay? Yeah, so at this stage there's no fee because 251 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.799 we don't want to be seen to be taking money to do scores and things 252 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.400 like that, so there's no fee at the moment. We need to work 253 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.559 on how we fund the business bible going forward those so that may or may 254 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:48.279 not change. But they're sort of interested because it's exposing the project in a 255 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:52.480 very easy to see way, so it's pr for them. But it's also 256 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:56.640 the academic side of what with the university going to do. They're actually going 257 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.000 to put analysis together of how we can analyze these better, how we can 258 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.160 deep dive on them, how we can learn more from them. So they're 259 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.160 you know, their data knowledge centers so that they can do that sort of 260 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:12.480 process. So and I think people are interested because you know, I've got 261 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:17.079 a great story and it'sponded the use cases that will be published in soon. 262 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.799 But back in the day, in my DXC days, I work with one 263 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:26.720 of the biggest car companies in the world and we pitched to them and that 264 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.200 then went through and IBM actually won the project and then built this supply chain 265 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:37.240 trace in the tracking system. That was back in twenty seventeen. Now that 266 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:42.119 project has morphed and it's now going to be tracking planes and trains and parts 267 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.000 and different things, and it's not just one car company. It's a whole 268 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:52.599 set of sort of consortiums. So it's really interesting how that's gone from one 269 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:57.440 tiny project to a very big project and very successful. And they want to 270 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:03.400 tell the story because most people still think that blockchain projects are failing and things 271 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.640 are not going well, and this is like I didn't even know this, 272 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.799 and I knew the people back in twenty seventeen, so I was quite surprised 273 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.000 to talk to them a few weeks ago. So, wow, this is 274 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.880 light years different from what it was. I'm really interesting. So I think 275 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.640 people are wanting to tell the story of why this is real. And you 276 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:25.480 know, this is not a judgment. This is a score that says this 277 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:30.559 is why blockchains good and not and a lot of the reason for that the 278 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:37.559 scoring of blockchain applicability is lots of projects have failed because blockchain wasn't used properly. 279 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.359 And so if you go back over the last three, four or five 280 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.680 years, and there's lots of people will tell you this failed, this failed, 281 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.079 and this failed. My first response is should it have been on blockchain? 282 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:53.160 Should use blockchain technology in the first place, And a lot of answers 283 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:59.599 are no, And I think a lot of the consortiums that have failed have 284 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:04.559 been because of one the wrong blockchain i e. Private blockchain versus public, 285 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:10.440 and two the wrong incentive model. They were doing it to try and control 286 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:15.000 a network, which is what corporates do, whereas blockchain is not about controlling 287 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.519 a network. It's about trusted information and sharing things. So again, if 288 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:25.480 the incentive model, that the motivations are not there, project's going to fail. 289 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:27.880 And I think that's why this is good and that's why people come out 290 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:32.200 going our project is successful and it's done this, and it's that great. 291 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.720 What are the benefits? You know? One of the sections is you know, 292 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:37.279 what are the benefits? What did you do? What did you learn 293 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.680 from it? And I think that's why people are sort of interesting in talking 294 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:47.319 to us. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. And as you're talking about, 295 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:48.920 you know, the business model, revenue model, and so forth, 296 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:55.039 I thought maybe this would be a great not for profit type organization and that 297 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.640 works with governments, you know, given that what you're doing is bringing a 298 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.599 lot of validity, clarity, and I'm sure governments are going to want to 299 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:10.119 have a resource like this of vetted projects, vetted use cases that they can 300 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.359 advocate for too, you know, depending on what it is. No, 301 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.960 definitely, I think that was. I was at the university a couple of 302 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.759 days ago, and one of the things we're talking about is a three year 303 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:22.799 plan and what does this look like in three years, and the university very 304 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:29.400 much saying we see twenty five universities looking after this and funding this in different 305 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.200 ways. So I think, less government, more academia. But the same 306 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.279 thing as you're saying, it's you know, it'd be probably an academic resource 307 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.799 because they're the people that know the latest trends in data analysis and then that, 308 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.759 and they're inherently most of them are public anyway, so it sort of 309 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.000 naturally goes through. So I think that seems to be the way we're looking 310 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:52.599 at it. Obviously we're still early stages, but I think, you know, 311 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.720 it's free there. It's sort of out there, and I think the 312 00:23:56.119 --> 00:24:00.960 university had been from day one talking to me saying it has to stay as 313 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.240 free as possible all the way through. And I'm like, okay, we 314 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.759 need to work on how to do that, but happily open to that because 315 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:12.000 for me, again, my remit, my sort of motivation here is I 316 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.279 want people to go, not what is blockchain, why is it working? 317 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.519 It's like, can I use blockchain for this? Great, I've got a 318 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.240 new idea. Can I use blockchain for that? Brilliant I've got this? 319 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.599 Can I do that and actually just start building using blockchain for the right reasons, 320 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.599 because that will then there'll be massive adoption. People will then will then 321 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:37.720 be at the social media which you mentioned before, where automatically there will be 322 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.839 social media sites that are starting to do this because lots of people are using 323 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.599 it and lots of people can see the benefits and success. So I think, 324 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:51.200 you know that that's the main sort of motivation and reason for myself. 325 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.960 And I think as crypto has becoming less, you know, unacceptable, I 326 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.519 think it's a nice way to put what's been over the last two or three 327 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.039 years or so, you know before that sort of Now it's becoming more acceptable 328 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:08.279 and ETFs and things like that, which I know are financial, but they 329 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:12.480 give it credibility a bit more now and the mainstream people go, ah, 330 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.720 this is okay. And I think the more that that happens the better, 331 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:19.079 and for me, the more when my mum says, do you do you 332 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:23.240 still work in that dodgy industry? You know, when she stops saying that, 333 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.279 and she says things like I saw bitcoin crashed. Are you are you 334 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.880 poor? Now? Do you know? So once we get that through, 335 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:40.359 I think we'll be in a good stage. Absolutely, And I've forgotten those 336 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:45.160 comments suit for my wife and my mom too. Yeah, you know when 337 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.519 they never ask you when bitcoin goes up? Do they They're not interested? 338 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:53.480 Then it's when it goes down, like are we bankrupt? Now? But 339 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.079 man, Amy, I love the idea because you know, I have a 340 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:02.799 lot of experience in web two and digital marketing, and I understand content marketing 341 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.960 and building online resources for people to find information and be educated. And I 342 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:12.079 think this is very much needed in filtering out all the noises mentioned. So 343 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.039 it's really cool. What's on your twenty twenty four role map? Are you 344 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:22.400 looking to build an app or anything else? No, this stage the twenty 345 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:26.079 twenty four is all about working out the scoring panel and the scoring system because 346 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:32.079 I can't really get many more submissions without It's a lot of admin and a 347 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:34.920 lot of process. It's very manual today. So I won the rest of 348 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:40.359 this year for the team to automate things, get it working so that we 349 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:44.920 can accept more use cases. And score more use cases and very final use 350 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.119 cases, because everybody's starting to ask, well what about this one? About 351 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.920 that one? It's like, Wow, we're getting some traction, which is 352 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:56.279 amazing, but I've got to get the ground floor now fixed and sort of 353 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:02.200 get a strong basis of verification and scoring. Once that's in, yeah, 354 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:06.640 then next year will be all about getting more and more use cases in and 355 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:11.160 then we'll start to be able to do some analysis and some reporting and what's 356 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.079 happening here? Which are interesting, which are moving forward? What are the 357 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.279 types of benefits all that good stuff that's in there, the information's there, 358 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:25.279 will actually have it at scale that's sort of you know, statistically useful for 359 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:30.799 businesses and people. I love it. And you know you mentioned like you're 360 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:34.480 using the XRP ledger. Are there is there any other blockchains? Are you 361 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.000 going to integrate or are you going to stick with the x RP ledger. 362 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.200 So at this stage XRP ledger is just for verification. So you know, 363 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:48.680 any blockchain in essence can can do verification on certificates, So we're sticking with 364 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.440 XRP ledger at the moment. It is quick and cheap, it's it does 365 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.559 a very good job. It's it's easy enough to use, so so yeah, 366 00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:00.839 we're definitely sticking with that. It doesn't mean anything to do with the 367 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:03.640 projects that are verified, et cetera. It doesn't mean there are anything to 368 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:08.519 do with XRP and things like that. It's just that's the verification platform that 369 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:15.559 we're using. Let's talk about the crypto market at large. Obviously, Anthony, 370 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.720 you've been here a long time, You've seen a lot of things in 371 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.720 this industry. What are your thoughts on the bigcoin ETF launches, the performance 372 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.319 we've seen, and now there's an Etherem ETF coming up. There's talks of 373 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:32.319 Solana and XRP, but it seems crypto has gone mainstream. Yeah, I 374 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:37.920 think going I think it's still going mainstream. I think we're sort of we're 375 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.440 at the start of that piece. So definitely, you know, we're out 376 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.720 of the sort of this is this is not good, this is a scam, 377 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.960 and all that old school sort of discussion. And then the bigcoin ETF 378 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:56.519 there was lots of there was actually lots of et ETF style sort of products 379 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:03.839 already out there before the Americans of signal, but America being the biggest financial 380 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.119 market. That's a massive stamp of approval and are tick in the box. 381 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.160 So I think some of I've been you know, I was actually looking just 382 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.240 before at some of the inflows and stuff, and it's actually impressive for the 383 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:21.240 scale of the inflows to Bitcoin, considering the noise that's still out there. 384 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.240 There's still you know, it's not highly positive like gold for example, you 385 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:29.480 know, where everybody's gold is amazing, it's still you know, fifty to 386 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.640 fifty maybe of where people are positive negative of it. So to get the 387 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:41.160 growth of inflows and outflows are not bad. There's going to be outflows. 388 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:44.160 That's the whole point of an etfor you know, it's not just one way, 389 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.559 you know, and it doesn't seem to be too bad process. So 390 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.599 I think, you know, ethereums obviously the one people were in July now, 391 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:57.359 so people are expecting in July. I think personally, I think that'd 392 00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.880 be great if that goes through because I've an etheroreum long long time, so 393 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:08.240 I'm fingers crossed for that one. But also I think people also if you're 394 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.680 a sophisticated investor, you can invest in this back a long time ago, 395 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:21.400 and in my UK pension in twenty seventeen, I invested in the bitcoin and 396 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:26.200 ethereum ETP I think it's called back in the day, and I could invest 397 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.960 my UK regulated pension, where there's only certain things you can invest in. 398 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:36.480 So this is not me just investing. This is the UK regulated pension. 399 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.640 And I invested back in twenty seventeen both Etheroreum and bitcoin. Now the interesting 400 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.559 thing it then got closed. We didn't get closed, it got stopped, 401 00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:52.319 so that it's you couldn't invest. You could only sell until the bitcoin ETF 402 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.200 and now it's open and you can buy and sell it again now. So 403 00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:03.160 it's actually quite strange in a way that something was regulatory legal in the UK 404 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.440 in a pension back in twenty seventeen. I had three or four years where 405 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.000 you couldn't do anything, and now he's back again, you know. So 406 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.759 there's definitely been ways to sort of do this, which is probably why I've 407 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:19.160 been less excited about in UTF because I'm like, I've been sort of doing 408 00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:23.920 that inadvertent. I didn't actually realize that was, you know, the way 409 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:26.960 it was, but you know, it's back. It was actually twenty eighteen 410 00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:33.880 I invested because I actually invested after the Hindman, the very well known Himan 411 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:40.039 speech, which the SEC basically you know, told me at that day that 412 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:45.119 Ethereum's okay, it's legal, you know. And I can't remember the exact 413 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.599 phrasing he used, but that was when I invested in the pension, you 414 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.039 know, because I didn't. I'm not going to damage my pension. That's 415 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.680 one of the most secure, important financial products that you have in your life. 416 00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:02.240 So I think, you know, I think I believe Ethereum goes through 417 00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:07.720 say this month, over summer, maybe it goes to September for whatever reasons, 418 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:09.920 no idea, but and then I think the other ones will be just 419 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:15.240 a matter of course. I think it's just then a process because there's no 420 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:17.799 reason not to. I think as long as it then comes down to is 421 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:22.119 there the market for it is their demands, it goes into a normal, 422 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.200 normal business. So I think, you know, Bitcoin's been the pioneer as 423 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.880 ever, you know, Ethereum's the second biggest and probably the most used, 424 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:36.599 so great that then sort of backs up the Bitcoin ETF and then the rest 425 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.000 of them are going to be it's likely to go in you know, market 426 00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:44.759 cap top ten type sort of process. But I think some of the others 427 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:49.039 could be more interesting, because if there's demand for you know, a number 428 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:54.519 twenty market cap, then these financial institutions and businesses, they'll go, Ah, 429 00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:59.720 people want an ETF for x y z coin, let's bring it in. 430 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.599 So I think there'll be some interesting ones further down the line. But 431 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.839 I think, you know, fingers crossed is a THEORYM gets sorted now, 432 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:12.519 and I think that opens the doors for the next probably not until twenty twenty 433 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.680 five, but I think because you need the election and things now to settle 434 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:21.440 down. But assuming that all goes well, the twenty five are assume you'd 435 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:25.440 say some more. Yeah, we've seen outside the United States, a lot 436 00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:29.920 of these project products have existed, like you mentioned, like you were able 437 00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.960 to access some of them years ago. It's just in the United States this 438 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.039 has been a lot of hurdles, but it seems we're making some progress. 439 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:42.119 I did want to get your thoughts on CBDCs and stable coins because obviously you 440 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.960 have a plethora of experience there working at Ripple and so forth engaging with central 441 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.240 banks. A couple of questions. I guess you know you're no longer a 442 00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:57.000 Ripple, but how are the conversations going with central banks. Are they much 443 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.920 more open to cbdc's and are they really heads down working on these things. 444 00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:06.440 Yeah, I think so, you know, not from a rip up perspective, 445 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.519 but in general cbdc's there's progress happening, and you see it really with 446 00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:16.719 the European banks and a little bit with Latam and Brazil. I'd say so, 447 00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.760 ECB's got a lot of work going forward, and Switzerland similar bit slightly 448 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:29.400 different jurisdiction, and I think Switzerland actually announced last week they did a settlement 449 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:34.760 of a bond with a digital sort of Swiss Frank type scenario. So they're 450 00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.559 actually, you know, quite ahead of most of the countries. ECB is 451 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:44.599 still in the sort of development sort of phase and sort of working things out, 452 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:47.840 but they're moving forward to looking at technology in the next I think it's 453 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:52.320 the end of this year into next year of how they build it. So 454 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:57.880 you know the Latam as I mentioned in Brazil, but a lot of countries 455 00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:00.599 in Latam, you know, Columbia and all those other countries, they're all 456 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:07.320 looking at different types of CBDCs and stable crones as well. And I think 457 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.719 a lot of people focus on CBDC and I sort of sit there, going, 458 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:15.440 it's interesting. It's important because it's the top, it's the most, 459 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:19.360 but actually all the money you've got in your wallet and your accounts is not 460 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:25.559 CBDC. It's actually commercial bank money. So ninety five percent of the money 461 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:32.880 in circulation in most countries is actually commercial bank money. The dollars you have 462 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:37.800 in your pocket are the only CBDC equivalent. It's not digital, the only 463 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:43.360 CBDC we have, and so lots of people are talking about cbdc's but actually 464 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.119 it's only going to be five percent of your money, if at all. 465 00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:50.920 It's only going to be your your small spending and things like that, and 466 00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.920 I question why you would ever use it that much, whereas a stable crone 467 00:35:55.239 --> 00:36:00.000 or a digital version, digital dollar, digital pound, the commercial bank side 468 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.559 of it, that's the interesting bit, and that's where the traction is starting 469 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:09.159 to grow. And people talk about tokenized deposits and you know stable coins. 470 00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:14.239 As we said, that is where the growth is, and I think that's 471 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.840 where people need to sort of pay more attention less on the CBDC because you 472 00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:21.880 don't use it that much and you don't need to. You actually don't need 473 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.719 to. We can live our lives without CBDC, you know, whereas commercial 474 00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:30.360 bank money, which is the money in your bank today and in your wallets 475 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:35.119 and not in your physical wallet, but you are digital wallets. That's what's 476 00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:40.000 important. And obviously meeker regulations just come in Europe, just launched a couple 477 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:46.519 of days ago. Still new, still still lots to do, i'd say, 478 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:54.000 with it. But it was very interesting that usd T is not I 479 00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:00.599 wouldn't say it's not illegal yet, it's not allowed. Let's say in Europe, 480 00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:07.199 so I trade with a pole bitstam, all of those USDT has been 481 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:14.639 removed. The only stable US dollar stable coin is usd C PayPal stable coin. 482 00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:17.920 They're the only ones. And because in the in Europe you have to 483 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:23.360 have a money transfer license near my license is called so basically need to be 484 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:30.280 in essence of regulated institution, which Circle and obviously PayPal are. So I 485 00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:35.440 think that's more interesting what's happening there, because are we all going to in 486 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:42.079 Europe start using us d C and EUROC obviously the other euro equivalent. Interestingly, 487 00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:45.440 not a lot of people use EUROC, and I think that's where the 488 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:50.880 crypto world comes in, because we all work in dollars when you quote the 489 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.840 price of bitcoin, you always say dollars, are you know, I always 490 00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:58.079 say dollars, even though I live in Europe or when I lived in the 491 00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:00.719 UK, I would always quote bitcoin, you know, thirty thousand dollars, 492 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:06.800 fifty thousand dollars. So it's going to be interested in this whole stable coin 493 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:12.559 and regulated stable coins, non regulated stable coins and backed by different things. 494 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.719 That's what we need to look at. And the big banks, you know, 495 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:19.719 the city banks HSBC's of the world, they're starting to look at that 496 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.320 because that's when the change will happen, you know, And that's when things 497 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:27.800 like how does MasterCard and the money you know, the credit card, the 498 00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:31.760 American Express, how do they all work if we move to digital money, 499 00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:38.440 digital currency? Because do we need the ends of the sort of the process, 500 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.239 you know, how do we do transactions? Because you and I know, 501 00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.280 because we're crypto people, I can show my QR code and my wallet 502 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:50.280 and you can send me a bitcoin. I'll do it if you want. 503 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.480 By the way, they're going to send me a bitcoin, you know, 504 00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.480 and that's p TP to ends. You know, we're done and we know, 505 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.440 you know, within a few seconds if it's on XRP you know it's 506 00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:05.880 cleared and bitcoin tex so you know an urso at the moment, but how 507 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:08.239 does that work in the new world? And I think that's the bits that's 508 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:14.360 been thought through. So at a CBDC level, there's lots of understanding around 509 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.239 that. And back to the digital euro as well, the ECB has said 510 00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:22.840 privacy is number one, so you don't need to know the ends of the 511 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:29.400 transaction for say, you know, five dollars five euros five dollars, that's 512 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.519 not the figure yet, but there'll be things so you can buy your coffee 513 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:36.920 and things. And I always say to people, don't people get a lot 514 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:42.199 concerned and annoyed about privacy of CBDC and the central bankers don't care that you're 515 00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:45.480 buying a coffee. They really don't care that you're buying coffee and doing things. 516 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:51.440 They care about if your money laundry in twenty thousand dollars or you know, 517 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:53.079 doing things that you shouldn't be doing, that's what they care about, 518 00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:59.000 you know. And so it's a bit of education. I think central banks 519 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:05.840 don't have the best positivity at the moment, let's say globally, I think 520 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:10.880 and I have to say you know, Jerome Powell is literally just outside the 521 00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.639 window, not not physically standing there, but he's in Centro in Portugal, 522 00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:20.000 which is next to where I live. And yesterday he was at the ECB 523 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:24.559 President's are all over there at the moment talking policy, et cetera. And 524 00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:29.840 he actually said on Bloomberg that, you know, the the it was something 525 00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:34.480 about the central banks. You know, respect from the people is still at 526 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:39.599 a very high level. And I thought, yeah, that's obviously on x 527 00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:46.519 dot com, Twitter, it's there's a very difference different. So so I 528 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:52.639 think there is this this issue around cbdcas and privacy which has been blown out 529 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:58.840 of all proportion. I would be more worried about my privacy of my my 530 00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.920 bank and my state or coin and whatever they do, because they're then going 531 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:08.159 to be in control of my privacy. Still sorry, quick question on that. 532 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:13.599 So, are you envisioning that the CBDCs they launch will be wholesale, 533 00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:16.039 so that'll be between the third and the banks, the commercial banks, but 534 00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:21.039 the retail are going to be using stable coins because I've mean hearing more and 535 00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:23.159 more that's kind of the model. And here in the United States, Congress 536 00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:29.880 has put out some bills saying no CBDC issued directly to citizens, So it 537 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.639 seems like stable coins are going to be the retail. I think they'll probably 538 00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:37.440 be both. So I do think you'll you'll sort of have a CBDC element 539 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.519 in a wallet somewhere, but you know, it might be one hundred dollars 540 00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:45.360 or something. The rest of it, as you say, will be wholesale 541 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.400 commercial bank money, which will be your digital dollars sort of thing. So 542 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:55.079 I think countries will make different decisions on the CBDC to the retail CBDC, 543 00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:00.639 so me and you holding it in our wallets. ECB looks though they'll do 544 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.639 it as you say, Congress, different opinions, and obviously Goodman change maybe 545 00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.639 coming. So we don't know yet, but it seems as though they're suggested 546 00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:13.559 no at the moment, but you know, we don't know. So it 547 00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:16.679 will be limited anywhere, be capped anyway, because the central banks don't want 548 00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:22.159 to be dealing with your wallet and your issues of losing your keys, and 549 00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:24.960 it's not what they do. They don't do that. They don't deal with 550 00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:29.559 people. They deal with the banks, as you know, the banks that 551 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.639 we deal with. So I personally, for me, I see a very 552 00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.599 clear model going through to commercial banks, a wholesale bank, and as you 553 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.719 mentioned, that's what we'll be using. That's the digital dollar or digital era 554 00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:49.599 that will use and it'll be managed by our commercial bank. What are your 555 00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:52.480 thoughts on Ripple launching a stable coin. I think it's called r l USD. 556 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:59.000 It's coming up this sometime this year. Yeah, I think it's great 557 00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:01.880 to launch a stable coin. I think at the moment, good things are 558 00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:07.079 happening in the stable coins, so you know, it's it's the future stable 559 00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:14.079 coins. You know, whether Ripple is as good or better than PayPal or 560 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.440 you know, Circle, et cetera, it's all around user adoption and what 561 00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:22.760 we as the people and businesses decide to do. So I think, you 562 00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.119 know, there's still a long way to go before we get to that. 563 00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:30.239 I think stable coins are such a low percentage of the money out there, 564 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:34.840 but there's lots of you know, companies trying this, lots of banks trying 565 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.719 this. It's not just to Ripple, it's it's many others, but it's 566 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:42.760 it's definitely an interesting step forward, and you know, looking forward to the 567 00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:46.880 launch later on this year. Hard question, you know, what is your 568 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:52.639 timeline for when you think we might see CBDCs out in in the markets, 569 00:43:53.119 --> 00:44:00.119 is it five years from now the big countries, so you see, if 570 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.679 you take US, eure A, UK, Japan, I think it's probably 571 00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:09.960 getting near ten years. I don't see the countries actually getting themselves sorted in 572 00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:15.599 enough time unless there's some big crisis that means it happens sooner, which may 573 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.519 or may not happen. So I just don't see. There's lots of progress, 574 00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:24.159 but the politics is getting involved, and politics never speeds things up. 575 00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:29.800 Politics always slows it down. So if you take we're not even there yet 576 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:32.039 with what it would look like and how it would work, So the politics 577 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:37.000 is going to destroy it, not destroyed, but slow it down some stage 578 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:42.119 where you will see CBDCs. Are the likes of the sort of other countries, 579 00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.400 be at Latam, Africa and some of the Asia countries. You know, 580 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:51.280 all of those are sort of progressing quite well. Brazil was doing very 581 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:53.599 well, but they're slowing down from a technology perspective at the moment. But 582 00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:58.280 I think once they get that fixed, they'll move forward. So I think 583 00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:04.039 some countries are just going to go for it quicker because it's less risk to 584 00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:07.719 them it's more needed. You know, some of this is about if you've 585 00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:12.280 got a big physical country and you know you're a poorer nation, it's it's 586 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:16.400 very difficult to get money around and make it happen. A digital currency in 587 00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:22.119 whatever format stable corn or CBDC means people can just interact straight away, and 588 00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:27.960 it really does. And you saw that with the Ripple Palou project where it 589 00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:30.159 really helps some of the very small projects. You know, only a few 590 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:34.800 hundred people used it, but it showed that it was really easy for people 591 00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:37.239 to pay for things. It was you know, and the back end of 592 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:40.840 it, the money is just flowing very quickly and closing at the end of 593 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:45.239 the day and settling and stuff. So it was a nice easy process. 594 00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:51.000 Now allows a very small island nation, so scale it up. But it 595 00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:53.880 showed that it can happen, and it doesn't. You know, Nigeria has 596 00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:59.119 been doing trials, which I'm not sure entirely whether that's moved forward again, 597 00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:04.280 but I think definitely Brazil and Switzerland too. If you're going to watch who's 598 00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:07.159 going to do it first, I put my money on probably Switzerland, just 599 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:12.800 because they know how to get things done and they're less political they're very you 600 00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.159 know, they're very and I think Brazil, if they can get through, 601 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:20.719 they've got this tech hurdle at the moment they're just working on and I think 602 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:24.760 if they get through that and the politics is okay positive for it, which 603 00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:30.519 seems to be okay, then but yeah, I think for Europe, UK, 604 00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:38.400 USA, I'd say I think it's realistically ten years, but let's hope 605 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:44.559 for a surprise. Yeah, for sure, it's fascinating. I'm very intrigued 606 00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:47.280 by the timeline and when these things were all out. Obviously I'm passionate about 607 00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:52.760 the technology and how it's going to change people's lives and so forth. And 608 00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:55.400 you know, what you're doing in the CBRC is certainly helping to educate the 609 00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:00.159 masses, helping people to adopt blockchain. So help to speed things up a 610 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:05.199 bit, right, lovely? Hopefully? Yes? Awesome? I go get 611 00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.199 some wrap up questions here for you. First, if you could create your 612 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:13.480 own metaverse, what would the theme be? I think the metaverse for me 613 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:19.320 would be around just being nice and generally you know, happy and doing positive 614 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.679 things. So instead of negative news, we shared what did you do what 615 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.840 was positive today? And just get people a bit more happy, and there's 616 00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:31.159 amazing things in life, but mainstream news and things is always what went wrong, 617 00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:37.079 And I'd have a metaverse that's a happy metaverse and rapid fire questions. 618 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:45.760 Favorite food sushi, Favorite musician or band has to be Madonna, especially after 619 00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:51.320 her age. Doing Copa Cabana with one point eight million fans is impressive at 620 00:47:51.320 --> 00:48:01.000 her age. Yeah, favorite movie Devil Words Prada. Favorite book, Well, 621 00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:06.000 I was going to say, thinking crypto the one behind you, but 622 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:10.679 I'll have to stay commercializing blockchain for sure. I'll put a link to your 623 00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:14.280 book by the way for everyone to check it out. And what do you 624 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:16.840 do for what do you do for fun? For as a hobby? So 625 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:22.119 I live in Portugal, so there's lots of outdoor and sunshine. Although this 626 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.840 year it's July and it's only just started the summer. Everybody thinks we live 627 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:30.760 in the sunshine every day and the rest of it it's, you know, 628 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.480 not too bad, but it's not sunny all the time here, so we've 629 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:37.960 got outdoors now. And also I love F one as well, and some 630 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.960 really interesting things happening in F one at the moment, which is always good 631 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:45.960 to watch. Awesome Anthony pleasure chatting with you and we'll have to have you 632 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.920 back on as things progressed with a CBRC, but thank you so much for 633 00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.000 joining me. Definitely thanks for your time, Tony, and thanks for yours 634 00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:08.880 pak post The Bok pakstk tak