WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 Sort Scale. Rewind is an after show, which means it's meant to be 2 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:04.919 listening to after listening to Sword and Scale for your convenience. Each episode number 3 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:07.799 of rewind corresponds to its counterpart on Sword and Scale. It's not that hard. 4 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:17.679 People. Welcome to Sword and Scale rewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and 5 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:49.799 Ian Bag. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to Sword and 6 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:53.560 Scale Rewind. I'm one of your hosts, Matt Fondelier, and I am 7 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:59.359 joined once again by comedian and host of the fifth most popular hockey podcast and 8 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.920 all of us, Raila, Ian Bag. Welcome back. Hello, Matthew, 9 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:07.840 Let's talk murder. Let's talk murder. This is episode one hundred and 10 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.640 sixty two, And if you've never listened to this episode, you're not alone. 11 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:15.159 I have never heard this episode, and I'm very excited. Also, 12 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.159 I know is there's murder and there's been a podcast about it that's correct, 13 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.000 and we are gonna rate it and review it and love it and all of 14 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:29.120 the above. Yeah. Um, now, this is another Dead Baby episode. 15 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:33.439 What I know. Ian, You've just getting into this world of true 16 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:37.359 crime, and so far, every episode you've listened to involved the dead another 17 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:41.239 dead baby. I've tried to explain to you off microphone that there are other 18 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.319 episodes that don't involve dead. Isn't there one word? Guy just gets busted 19 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:49.239 with pod. Yeah, it's one of the early episodes. Mike hadn't developed 20 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.159 it yet. Pot crimes. This sky head put in his pocket will He 21 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.799 tried to go through the security at the airport. Yes, mistakes were made, 22 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.159 everybody's a sorry, and everything went well. Episode four. That's right, 23 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.599 it's a classical one. One of my all time favorites. This is 24 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:10.800 a very interesting episode because it's very sad, but at the center of it 25 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:16.120 is such a bizarre character who's kind of like the last episode we covered, 26 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:23.800 he's kind of an asshole, and that makes elements of this story worth talking 27 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.479 about. So it's not just going to be an hour long compression. Yeah, 28 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.800 let me try to dive into what you miss And again, if if 29 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.639 this is your first time listening to the show, you're welcome. I'm just 30 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.199 explaining it for you. So, at the center of the story, we 31 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.639 have a husband and wife, Ryan Lawrence and his wife Morgan Lawrence, and 32 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:47.039 they met while working at a t store in a shopping mall. I already 33 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:53.199 want to kill somebody. Yeah, it's called the Destiny USA shopping Mall and 34 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:57.960 it's in sort of like Central New York, New York state that is now. 35 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:01.599 They were married pretty quickly after that, and then they had a baby 36 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:07.479 girl who is known as Baby Maddox and a D D o x um. 37 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:14.240 But before the baby's first birthday, they discovered that one of her brown eyes 38 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:19.560 was turning darker. And what it ended up meaning is that she had something 39 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.680 called rhett no blastoma, which is a type of eye cancer. Again, 40 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:30.280 hilarious stuff right right from fun fun times. So this baby is going to 41 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:35.120 need chemotherapy, radiation, possible removal of the eye, of course, and 42 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:37.120 they're working at the tea store. I'll just take it over from here. 43 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:38.479 They're working at the tea store. They don't have that kind of money, 44 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:45.800 so they just sell her to this weird cult and they kill her. Yeah, 45 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:49.919 So what happens, Well, Ryan the dad, in addition to working 46 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.360 at the tea store, he also delivers pastries. He works at a gas 47 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:59.280 station. But now they're just are these insane medical bills. Yeah, and 48 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.879 there's a special cancer center that's in New York City and it's just a multi 49 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:10.479 hour commute. They're growing back And I guess which they're going to? Which 50 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:14.000 cancer Sloan kettering. I think that's actually right. Yeah, okay, I 51 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:15.680 used to do shows there, oh the cancer center. Yeah, I used 52 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:19.600 to. It's funny. It's how I learned to not be afraid of people. 53 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.839 It's I had all these people that were dying of cancer, and they 54 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:28.000 had they had the medication with them, they'd hit the morphine, you know, 55 00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:32.079 because it became the pain became great. Wow. And I noticed that 56 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:38.800 if you didn't face on treat them like humans, they were bored of you. 57 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.040 They wanted to be treated like a human. And I'm like, if 58 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.720 these people want to be treated like a human, this is how I'm always 59 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:47.600 going to treat my my crowds. So we don't we don't we don't go 60 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.160 away from things? Yeah, go right at things. So you just started 61 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:53.800 roasting them? Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah, I'm like, ever go waterskin? 62 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:56.839 Yeah? I remember that wasn't one part. I remember the guys got 63 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:58.399 the big thing? O you ever go water sking? Or is that thing 64 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:00.959 getting away? Like? I feel like people love that though they need to. 65 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:04.040 They want to feel like a normal person. You want to be. 66 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:10.120 You want to be recognized, You don't want to be just a shadow. 67 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.040 Yeah, you know, and people can be ignored because it is too hard 68 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:18.120 for the person to deal with what's going on with somebody else, which is 69 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.040 crazy because the person's going on with it. So they need you to be 70 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:25.839 the pillar. Yeah, exactly, Well that's got off. We're can look 71 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.920 out a little off course there, but now and that's it's all part of 72 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:31.759 this conversation though, because at the beginning of this episode, I think the 73 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:36.240 idea is to try to put you in the mind of this guy Ryan Lawrence 74 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.720 to some deliveries. I got to work at a gas station. I'm at 75 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.680 a T sor oh my god, that's right now. During this time, 76 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:48.600 he also has his license suspended, so another delivering thousand dollars fee. Yeah, 77 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.800 no longer going to be able to deliver. It really sounds to me 78 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.800 like he's the cooler like William H. Macy in that movie, Like just 79 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:59.600 just everything is just stacking up against this guy. It's funny because when you 80 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.920 said that, I'm just like, there's people that have that happened to them. 81 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.720 Yeah, and they just can't get out from underneath the rock doesn't matter 82 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:10.639 how hard they try. Right, So, right now, I don't feel 83 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.079 like he's an asshole. I just feel like he is stuck. Yeah, 84 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:18.360 well prepared to have your opinion of the man changed. Okay, we got 85 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.040 some good news and some bad news. Here's the good news to tell you 86 00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:27.040 if he murders him, I was definitely gonna Yeah. Good news is that 87 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:30.879 baby Maddox is responding to Oh good. The cancer care is probably still going 88 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.600 to have a long road ahead of her, but it kind of seemed like 89 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.920 she's gonna be out to go, Maddie. But the bad news is that 90 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:44.199 the family dog has gotten sick and he can't afford the vet for the euthanasia. 91 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.680 So he does what I found to be kind of despicable. Takes his 92 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:54.800 dog out on a nature walk and then he strangles his dog. If you 93 00:06:54.839 --> 00:07:01.040 strangle something anything, you are a psychopath. Yes, So using your hands 94 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:04.279 to kill something like, even though you want to put it out of its 95 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:08.800 misery, Like, there's got to be a different way other than strangling something. 96 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:14.199 That's exactly what I would think worse walk Ever, totally now, it's 97 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:18.800 not really clear if he ever shares that information with you know, his wife. 98 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:21.160 You know, he may have just said that the dog ran away. 99 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:26.439 I don't really know. I don't know, but the dog's name was Trooper, 100 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:33.480 so definitely definitely a Maltese exactly. Um, so I should also say 101 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.680 it's about to get a lot worse. Okay, great, yep, And 102 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:44.680 Ryan Lawrence looks like mclovin from the Super Bad. So for people listening, 103 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.000 if you google Ryan Lawrence trial, you can see this guy and he just 104 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:53.879 looks like an angry mclovin. He's got a super high pitched voice. And 105 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:58.519 I'm gonna play a clip for you towards the end of this episode, kill 106 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:01.600 that dog it. Honestly, he does not sound too far off from that. 107 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.759 I was trying. I realised, Hey, you want to some tea? 108 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:11.000 I have time. I gotta do some deliver make sure I get to 109 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.759 the gas station. You know, you said you didn't listen to this episode, 110 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:16.879 and and now I'm starting to think you live. I didn't. Is 111 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.759 that a great impression. Yeah, I'm so talented. So by all appearances, 112 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.560 we know about the dog thing, but most people don't, and they 113 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.319 just assume that he's just a loving, doting father. He takes the baby 114 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:33.879 with him when he does the pastry deliveries. And where the action of this 115 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:39.360 episode starts is his wife is starting a new job at the mall. And 116 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.879 the idea is that picture yeah, sorry, there's coffee. Bean has moved 117 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:46.200 in. Tea store is a thing of the past. Coffee is a new 118 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:50.440 rage. So the plan is they're gonna drop Morgan off at work. He's 119 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:54.039 gonna take the baby with him for the day, and then at the end 120 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.600 of the shift they come pick her up. But he's got no license, 121 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:58.639 right and this time he does not have a license. So this is where 122 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.559 it takes in gonna take a turn. So Morgan, the wife, she 123 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:09.080 goes to work and she's expecting them to be there for her when her shift 124 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.759 is over, but instead, what's that She's had a tough one. She's 125 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:15.960 been working at the kiosk. Yeah, exactly, Coffee stains all over the 126 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:22.279 places that job. Instead, Ryan and the baby did not return. She 127 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.679 got a series of texts saying that the cars in the parking lot. The 128 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.759 keys are inside the car. He also apparently sent her an eight minute video 129 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:35.919 saying I can't do this anymore. I want you to have the life that 130 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.080 you deserve. I'm taking the baby with me. That video was never released 131 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:43.120 to the public, so it's not clear exactly what he said, but all 132 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.399 those texts about the keys being in the car all verifiable. Most of the 133 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:54.440 story in this episode is being told by the grandpa, who is his daughter, 134 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:00.480 is the wife, And so I'm going to play a clip just because 135 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:05.720 he's This audio is from his impact statement in court where he's talking about kind 136 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.559 of how his life has changed since all these events have happened. So he's 137 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:13.240 kind of speaking from the point of view of somebody who's already experienced the tragedy 138 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.840 that's going to unfold. But I just want to play this clip because he 139 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.559 is an incredibly emotional storyteller and this moment, this is about a minute long 140 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:28.399 of him just talking about the fear that the family was feeling when they just 141 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:31.600 had a series of texts in a car in the parking lot. I don't 142 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:37.799 know what's going on. Our Nightmare hit series, we sat together waiting and 143 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.720 wondering where Max was, how Urning could do this power. After hour, 144 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:50.000 we just waited, continually answering questions from police while Morgan replayed the events of 145 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.559 the night to each new officer she had waiting with Morgan and seeing her grief 146 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:03.279 was god runching. The thoughts that ran through my mind stifling. So my 147 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:09.120 Defensio's granddaughter is twenty one month old baby who was now in an unfamiliar place. 148 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:16.960 I had questions, was she with strangers, how was it being treated, 149 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:22.480 was she seeing? How scared was she? And then I just wanted 150 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.559 her back in my arms. I wanted her regrated with her mother. I 151 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:33.440 wanted her to feel safe and loved again. I wanted her home. I 152 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:39.279 was confused and scared that I might never see my granddaughter again. Reactions. 153 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.399 He sounds younger than I thought he was going to sound. Yeah, Grandpa 154 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.120 is misleading. Yeah, I don't tell you about a fam I want here 155 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.679 to take the dog out for a walk. But he sounds younger. He 156 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.519 sounds terrified, you know, and all those questions that are going through his 157 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:03.840 head are fine. But you'd be like, be like I would be like, 158 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.039 what is he doing? Not where she had like why is he doing 159 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:11.200 this? That's that was a little bit weird to me, because I'd have 160 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:16.000 why why is he doing this? It's you know, we got to get 161 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.480 the baby back. We'll take care of the baby. We're not worried about 162 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:24.360 my daughter having the you know, lengthen text messas the life she deserved. 163 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.600 Whatever, Well, we'll get her job at Applebee. She'll meet a fine 164 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:31.559 young man there. Yeah. Right, so it's it's weird. It's weird 165 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:37.360 so far. But Dad, from the conversation, they don't sound like they 166 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.759 have money, do they. That's a good point it I would imagine either. 167 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:43.519 I do know that they had to do like a go fund me at 168 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.159 some point to try to help raise some funds for Okay, but even if 169 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.480 they have money, if you suddenly are dealing with cancer patient, I feel 170 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:54.759 like that being accounts getting right, Yeah, the bank account, but they 171 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:01.519 would probably have medical if they had money. Um, and just what the 172 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:07.600 daughter's doing and the what the other the murderer his jobs are? Do you 173 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.360 think I will say this about the murderer. He's not lazy. He's got 174 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.759 three jobs. Yeah, that's that's that's something. Yeah, if you, 175 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.039 if you had a daughter, you'd want for your for the a guy that's 176 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:20.799 gonna put the effort out. But then maybe got over his skis a little 177 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.799 too far and lefty. I can't I can't work but I don't know that 178 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:26.679 the story is maybe he was just a well, it's a little bit of 179 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:31.559 all the above. Um. The grandpa does state that before all these events 180 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.960 happened, there was a conversation that he had in the car with Ryan sort 181 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:41.600 of talking about this responsibility of having a family, and the grandpa really misjudged 182 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:46.919 this guy because he really felt that Ryan was being honest about doing the right 183 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.919 thing and trying to like make a great family. So a lot of what 184 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.159 he says later in the episode is about just being deceived by this guy. 185 00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:01.120 Um. So, after uh an amber alert is issued, they have the 186 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.080 mom go on to like a really sad like if anyone has any information, 187 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.559 you know, right, because he doesn't have a car, right right, 188 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:13.639 They just have no idea where he is or where anybody is. But then 189 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.799 sixty hours later there's a nine one one call. Now his picture has been 190 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.240 posted all over the city. Everybody's looking for him, and the person who 191 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:28.600 called nine one one said that someone matching his description has been seen. But 192 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:35.240 this guy was wearing a disguise, a wig, a baseball hat, sunglasses, 193 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:41.600 camo pants, plastic grocery bags over his boots. People actually thought he 194 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.519 was homeless. He was carrying like a big comforter blanket and he smelled like 195 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:50.080 a campfire, so people just assumed that he was a homeless guy. This 196 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:52.919 is to me one of the most bizarre parts of this entire story. So 197 00:14:54.080 --> 00:15:00.159 the police come to this guy and he says that his name is our Low 198 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:07.159 Rivers. They ask him for his birthday. He gives his actual birthday, 199 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.039 so they look up Arlow Rivers find that there's nobody with that ridiculous name, 200 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.799 first of all, and second of all, nobody with that ridiculous name born 201 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:20.759 on September twelfth or whatever. But Ryan Lawrence was born on September twelfth, 202 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:26.440 and this is the guy that everybody's been looking for. So, like a 203 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.559 scene straight out of a movie, they ask him to take his hat off, 204 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.360 and then his wig falls off, and his exact words were, you 205 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:43.759 got me. My god, it all right. So that's just he had 206 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.159 got me, you got me? I would it leaves that all right? 207 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.799 No idea, I was wearing a wig. Now you got me, you 208 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.919 got me. That's his exact quote. Oh Arlow, I want to know 209 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.399 where he came up with that name. Also, in his possession camping gear 210 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:03.360 a handcuff key a book called one hundred Deadly Skills, which was written by 211 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.559 a retired Navy seal. But there's still no baby, and the reason he 212 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:12.279 smells like a fire, that's absolutely right. Sadly, when he's questioned by 213 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:17.080 police, he tells them, actually, kind of what you predicted early on. 214 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:18.840 He says that he gave the baby to his friends, to Chris and 215 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.600 Taylor, and now everybody's out of the country safe, So you're a weird 216 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:26.000 cult theory. There's a thread there, But it turns out those are not 217 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.159 real, fake right, totally fake. The detectives were taking him to all 218 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.480 these different sites throughout the day where he had said he had been for the 219 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:40.360 last sixty hours, and sixty hours is how many days, twenty four times 220 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:47.679 two forty eight and a half days, two and a half days. Eventually, 221 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:49.559 the detectives kind of build a rapport with him and they keep asking him 222 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:55.759 about Chris and Taylor, and he finally comes clean and says that that's not 223 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:59.279 really a true story, and he tells the detectives, you're not going to 224 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.679 look at me the same way once I tell you what I did with the 225 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.480 body, And that, of course is another dramatic cliffhanger in the episode. 226 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:14.319 Now we do get the reveal of what happened, but we don't know why 227 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:19.279 it happened. So one of the really sad parts here is that police divers 228 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:26.279 find the remains of baby Maddox tied to a cinder block and left like in 229 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:32.559 the river. Now, there's a clip that I want to play. There's 230 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:37.759 this news reporter that's been covering this breaking story throughout the entire day, and 231 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.799 there's a moment, it's right at the very beginning of this clip where I 232 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.839 just felt like the humanity of this news reporter really comes through in this. 233 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:48.839 The quote, the phrase is right at the top where he just says, 234 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.079 it's a rotten day. It's a rotten day here in Syracuse, New York. 235 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:53.680 So I just want to hear that he talks a little bit about kind 236 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.200 of how the community was really hoping there would be a happy ending to the 237 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:02.119 story but didn't turn out that way, and what a rotten day here in 238 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.480 Syracuse. We have just learned from Syracuse Police that a body that is believed 239 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.519 to be twenty one month old, the Maddox Lawrence, has been pulled from 240 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.960 the Inner Harbor where we have been reporting all morning long, where we have 241 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.400 been where members of the community have turned out, some of them with their 242 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:25.279 children, concerned mothers, hoping against hope that this would end a different way, 243 00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.599 but it is just not. So let's take you down to the Inner 244 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.680 Harbor, just along the creek walk, this place that brings so many people 245 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:36.079 in central New York Joy, one of the absolute best places to walk your 246 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.359 dog or just take a walk with a friend and catch up. We'll now 247 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:42.519 be etched in people's minds as the place where the body of this little girl 248 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:49.000 was found. Pretty pretty fucked out, to say the least. Now we 249 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.039 learn at this point that the last question, oh, of course, So 250 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:56.920 do we hear him talking to the police? Now, okay, because I 251 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:02.559 want to I want to know if you could feel any guilt. You can't. 252 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.119 You can't get that audio. Um, it's really was just sort of 253 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:11.000 conversation between this detective and the killer. So the only way to really hear 254 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.039 that part of the story is to hear the detective tell it, because he 255 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.680 kind of talks about well, first he said this, and then the detective 256 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.039 thing he's got guilt or he's just like, yeah, you got me Oh 257 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:23.960 my god, I feel bad because I shouldn't have done that, but I, 258 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.079 you know, really wanted to do it too. Despite the joke of 259 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:33.920 a line of you got me, it does sound like he has some legit 260 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:38.079 guilt and remorse for what he did. Okay, so this is different from 261 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:41.960 from most of these stories because most of these people I don't have any guilt 262 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.359 about this murder. That is. That is true and part of the big 263 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.440 kind of I don't know if it's really a twist in this episode, but 264 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.079 the final reveal we'll get into is really the why, like why this all 265 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.240 happened. I thought it was very interesting. I'm pretty excited about it. 266 00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:00.559 But before that, before that, there are actually two different rhyme scenes that 267 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.240 are being investigated. One is the river walk where the baby was found. 268 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:07.039 Was a mother good looking, she's pretty cute, cool? Yeah, she 269 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.599 was pretty cute. Um, she definitely could have done better than a super 270 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.680 bad mcloup. Well what do you describe? I'm like, I wonder what 271 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.200 you look like? You know? Yeah, Well, here's the thing, 272 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.720 Like all the pictures of her or the videos of her, is she's so 273 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:25.119 sad because her baby's gone and her whole life has fallen apart sexually sad woman. 274 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:26.359 Yeah, so it's a little weird to be like, oh yeah, 275 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:30.720 she was hot, but it's like, yeah, yeah, it's it is 276 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.319 pretty. It's pretty sad. But I could see And if you guys are 277 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:37.000 saying at home, you guys are having way too much fun. We gotta 278 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.039 have fun. It's gotta be fun. Yeah, so stupid. Yeah, 279 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.599 yeah, I've said on this show many times, this is a defense mechanism. 280 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.319 We're laughing about it because you don't want to just hear us crying. 281 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:49.000 Yeah, that's not really a good part if you If you do, there's 282 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:55.480 the opposite of laughters crying. So we're gonna laugh. So there's two crime 283 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.079 scenes, like I mentioned, One is the River Bad and the other is 284 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.119 this place out in the woods where he had great crime scenes. Yes, 285 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.359 he had taken authorities there a little earlier in the day and they found basically 286 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:12.559 the remnants of a camp fire, and as you alluded to earlier, they 287 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:17.440 did drop the hint of him smelling like a camp fire when he got picked 288 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:22.480 up. But we've learned at this point that basically he took his baby out 289 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.440 to the woods. He struck her in the head with a wooden baseball bat 290 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.480 and then burned the baby, burned the bat, you know, dumping oil 291 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:36.319 on the fire, and just kind of let it burn out overnight. And 292 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:41.079 then he scooped up the remains, put it into a container, tied it 293 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.359 to a cinder block, and then drove twenty minutes north to where he threw 294 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.680 it in the waters. And then he took the car and dropped it off 295 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:49.319 at the mall. That's when he dropped it out of the mull. So 296 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.839 he did this all while she was at work, that's right. And we 297 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.920 do also learn he does say that he took the baby to that location the 298 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.640 day before, but he couldn't go through with it, which I thought was 299 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:07.160 good for him for now. He also he's no quitters, that's true. 300 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:14.759 Man works three jobs for christing Um certainly after this um. He also apparently 301 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.240 had spray paint that he was going to use to change the color of his 302 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:25.279 skin. And he had this whole pook of that neon man that's not suspicious 303 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:32.960 at all. Let a safety cone. What a weird colored man. Yeah, 304 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.079 So his plan was that he was going to make it look like he 305 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:41.079 and the baby had run away and then he was going to commit suicide. 306 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.400 Now stay with me for a minute here, because again this gets a little 307 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.599 a little weird, But this is just how this guy's mind works. He 308 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.519 wanted to commit suicide somewhere along the Ohio River, and he hoped that his 309 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:57.519 body would make its way to the Caribbean, which is where his mother's ashes 310 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:03.160 were dispersed. So where to go make loving? Yeah. In court, 311 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:10.680 Ryan gives a huge apology to all the family members, saying that he doesn't 312 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:15.440 expect forgiveness. You're goddamn right, you don't. It is a legitimate, 313 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.519 heartfelt, sad monologue, which really does not happen a lot in these cases. 314 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.480 Like you pointed out, can I can I and I push it out. 315 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.000 If you're gonna I'm gonna bring it up again. I've done. This 316 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:27.960 is my second show, and I'm want to say it right now. If 317 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.200 you're gonna kill yourself, just kill it. Please, just don't bring other 318 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.519 people and just do it. I know, and there's somebody who go out 319 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.559 there can complaint, but no, if you're planning on killing other people and 320 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.880 yourself, just do yourself. Yes, there we go. Well, here's 321 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.599 the thing were respect. He gets sentenced to twenty five years to life, 322 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:51.599 which means that on his fiftieth birthday, which will be in two thousty one, 323 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.880 Jesus, he will appear before a parole board and he might be let 324 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.759 might be let back out. Now we mentioned earlier the wife in this story. 325 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:07.799 I want to play a clip of her begging the court to not let 326 00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:12.319 him out of prison. Okay, as there's all the rise actions I need 327 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:17.839 for him to spend for rest of his lifetime in prison. I fear for 328 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.839 my safety and fear for the still girl histec in the community. He's a 329 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:30.640 safe everyone flayed he's and he's been trying all of us for his actions. 330 00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:38.200 He's carried that unbelievable when he wants nidulous situation in his favor before parole would 331 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:44.799 par five years from now, he may see a remorseful he may vague to 332 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:52.960 be released to make av changeful. He's a monster. Should I truly don't 333 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.440 believe you don't kill a go getting a chance. Don't give him a chance. 334 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.480 This He is the most horrible thing I've ever endured in my life. 335 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:11.400 I want you to know you will not Da and my daughter in my whole 336 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:18.519 life. You told me therefore, you don't deserve another chance of your own. 337 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:26.759 So I got a couple of questions. Please she does Were they having 338 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:30.759 problems? Well, I was going to move into a segment that I like 339 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.480 to call what's my trauma? And I was going to give you three choices 340 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.079 and you can decide what you think was the actual trauma. One of those 341 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.839 three was did he have some marital problems think that his wife was having an 342 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.160 affair and didn't know what to do with it. Was he abused as a 343 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:53.519 child, unable to play his favorite sport of baseball? Or was he sad 344 00:25:53.519 --> 00:26:00.559 that his mommy died? Oh? I would have If it's those three, 345 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:07.240 I'd say probably number one because of him wanting her to have the life that 346 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:12.000 she deserved. A great guess, but it's incorrect, son of a bitch. 347 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:18.519 This kid deserves to die. The correct answer is that Ryan was sad 348 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.920 that his mommy died. So, but it doesn't make sense. It's a 349 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:25.359 douche move. I'm gonna I'm gonna go visit my mom, but I'm gonna 350 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.000 take my kid with me. Right, Oh, I decided I'm not going 351 00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:32.519 just sending the kid. Well, here's where we get you're laughing because this 352 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:37.720 is crazy. It SIPs absolutely insane. This is truly the biggest batch crazy 353 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:42.640 part of the whole story. So, after he was arrested, similar to 354 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:48.359 another episode that we covered, a reporter was granted the rights to a prison 355 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.119 interview, and it is creepy as fuck. Here we go. Now. 356 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:59.200 I mentioned not too long ago that Ryan wanted his own dead body to drift 357 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.519 to where his mother's ashes were scattered. Right well, because that's gonna happen. 358 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:07.759 Jesus Christ, you know anything about tidal waves and tides. Come on, 359 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:11.480 man, I do want to think about a beaver. Damn, you're 360 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.839 not gonna get You're gonna be stuck. You never think about the beavers. 361 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:21.480 You have everything all charted out, and then there's an unexpected damn just shows 362 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:26.319 up and ruins everything. So Ryan tells this reporter that a week before he 363 00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:32.079 kidnapped and murdered his baby, he started to hear the voice of his dead 364 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:37.839 mother in his head. I was telling him that he should give baby Maddox 365 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:42.240 to her so that she could help solve his family's problems. Ryan, bring 366 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:48.759 me the baby so you can live longer. Right now. Ironically, his 367 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.799 mother was a social worker who spent most of her life helping victims of violent 368 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:59.000 crimes. And she did that because her brother was murdered back in the nineties. 369 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.359 Wow, So I don't really think there's a vengeful mother ghost that's really 370 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:08.680 telling him to do this. We also learned that when when Ryan's parents got 371 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:15.559 divorced, he reacted to that loss by hurting himself. He's a cutter. 372 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.880 He's a cutter, and he'd you know, burn his skin with metal and 373 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:27.519 other objects. When his mother died, he burned a heart onto his chest 374 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.880 with incense. And then on what would have been his mother's fifty ninth birthday, 375 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:41.079 that's when he kidnapped and murdered his daughter, who was like, yeah, 376 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.680 the daughter was named after his mother, which makes it even weirderdie pretty 377 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.400 crazy, right, And in prison he apparently burned his zodiac symbol into his 378 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:55.400 hand, and he burns his leg with heated broken bottles. I'm sure in 379 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.000 prison he should be just getting punched in the face every day. Right. 380 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.200 They don't like baby killers in prison, They certainly don't. And I've teased 381 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:03.359 it now. I'm not going to play you a clip. This is from 382 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:10.079 the prison interview You're going to hear Ryan talking about why he did what he 383 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:15.920 did, and the reporter asks some pretty pointed questions as well, I'm not 384 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.880 this monster that people try to portray me to be on the media. What 385 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.480 I did was horrible, What I did was wrong, What I did was 386 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:30.319 unfair. What I did was illegal. Yeah, and evil. But it 387 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:36.519 wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't it was this storm. It 388 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:42.119 was this madness that it was taking over. You couldn't just be evil that 389 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:47.200 come to you. I don't think so, because what I was trying to 390 00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.839 do was not evil. I wasn't trying to hurt anybody. I was trying 391 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:55.079 to save Max. I was trying to save my life. I was trying 392 00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:02.559 to save my family from from hurtain strong ever and the most selfish act I've 393 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:07.839 ever done. I thought irrationally that it was going to be the most selfless 394 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.160 thing I would ever do. And you realize how crazy that sounds. I 395 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:15.559 mean, yes, yeah, it sounds crazy. Yeah, And it sounds 396 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.519 like he's just he's an idiot. And also he sounds like mcloven with a 397 00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:22.160 higher word. Later, I was like, he's got the same kind of 398 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.200 lisp going on. I'm telling you, dude, Oh man, that's crazy. 399 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.079 Um, I don't know, man, It's just he must be getting 400 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.880 beaten every day in prison, right, I mean I imagine that he is, 401 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.960 like you said, they don't like baby killers in prison, and he's 402 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:42.480 just that voice that look. I mean, he really it's just not a 403 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:47.079 good situation for him, but he fucking deserves it. Absolutely, Yeah, 404 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:53.119 absolutely, I just don't it doesn't. I don't. Did you say he 405 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:56.480 was an asshole of a person to her? Would like to like, what's 406 00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.359 their relationship bad? Or was he actually a loving guy? You know? 407 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.200 From all accounts, it would seem that he was a loving guy. I'm 408 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:10.680 imagining that he definitely had to have had some major issues kind of going into 409 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.200 all this, Like like we said, we learned when he was younger, 410 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.240 he had all this trauma from his family splitting up, So he's probably not 411 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.319 a well balanced guy. I would have liked to have heard from the wife 412 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:23.960 when she gave that speech, like I loved you and you trade or you 413 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.039 you fooled me the whole time, you know, you'd like, I would 414 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:32.200 never suspected that you would do anything like this from the way you treated me, 415 00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:34.599 or I would have. I should. It's my fault. Yeah, 416 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:38.240 But you know, there aren't like a lot of these stories you hear about 417 00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.519 all of the domestic violence that led up to this, like there's none of 418 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.240 that in this case. It really that's part of what makes this such a 419 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.720 strange episode or a strange case, is that it just seemed like he snapped, 420 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:53.400 like he suddenly was. It happens. It does. I don't want 421 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.759 to do, but it happens. It does. And you know the bottom 422 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.119 line is that Ryan had all of these resources to help him. You can 423 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.319 hear from like the grandpa stuff, like there was a close family unit, 424 00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:10.119 and so the idea that Ryan decided that it would be up to him when 425 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.720 his daughter would die, instead of she's gonna have a tough life, but 426 00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:19.240 she's gonna still have a life, right, And so not to end it 427 00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.359 on such a depressing note, I should say that there's also a memorial bench 428 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.880 alongside the riverwalk where the baby was found, and you know, it was 429 00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:31.279 a crime that impacted the entire community, and even years later, there's still 430 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:36.920 like an active Facebook group of people like just from the community trying to show 431 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:40.279 support, and like every year they you know, pay tribute to this baby. 432 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:44.839 So there's a little bit of humanity that comes out of it. But 433 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:50.279 what a piece of shit, What a piece of I wish. Yeah, 434 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:54.559 it's weird how it can bring people together. Yeah, I know. And 435 00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:59.559 that poor girl, I don't know how she's how the mother's doing, you 436 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.279 know, why she moved on and had kids with somebody else, or or 437 00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:06.880 didn't ever want to have kids again, or didn't even became a lesbian. 438 00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.279 You know who knows? You know. Um, it's just it's just I'm 439 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.400 glad they caught him because there was a way he probably could have got away. 440 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:16.160 But it sounds like he's kind of dumb. Yeah, I think so. 441 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:23.000 But Neon Spring ain't was really very a stand out for sure. I 442 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.759 just don't. I don't get the whole I'm going to jump in the river 443 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:30.279 and I like, yeah, I don't. Yeah, it's when it starts 444 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:36.599 to border on like crazy person. Yeah, and you're just you're just wondering, 445 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.559 well, was he crazy at any of these jobs or is he just 446 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.839 another guy that just this kind of went out And it is sad, but 447 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.880 yeah, gives us something to talk about. Therefore, thank you, Maddie. 448 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:52.319 Yes, I hope terrible. It's terrible. It's absolutely terrible. But 449 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.160 oh you gotta laugh. That's right. I hope I was able to impart 450 00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:00.359 the story well enough for you, you made and just he just yeah, 451 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.039 I paint pictures with my words. You did, and I just see that 452 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.599 neon man walking down the street and it was fan right. Well, thanks 453 00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:10.039 everybody for listening. We'll be back with another episode in due time. And 454 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:14.480 until next time, don't be a douchebag, don't be a douchebag, don't 455 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:28.960 murder people sort of scale. Rewad is a production of Incongruity Media. If 456 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:31.159 you enjoyed the show, leave us a five star rating at a glowing review. 457 00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:36.400 No criticism please, it hurts our feelings. Be sure to tell your 458 00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:38.639 friends about us, but not your family or co workers because they'll think you're 459 00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:44.199 weird. Okay, that's it. Until next time, don't be a douchebag. 460 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:12.400 The Departed to Bedpended, the Intendenden, the us