Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today we are continuing
our discussions of Avatar the Last Airbender going on a secret tunnel to reach episodes
three and four. I gotta say, folks, this feels some things are
still changed, some things are different. This feels to me much more like
the original Avatar, and especially with the end of the last episode, episode
four, it felt to me like they kind of said, we know what
the point of the original was. We're changing it a bit, but we
are still keeping to you know, like we've all been talking about, like
does the show understand the childlikeness of Aang And they kind of quite literally did
that at the end of episode four. So it's still not exactly the show
I would have wanted, but I'm feeling a lot more like this is now
a show that I want to do, that I want to see. I
have Rinky and Paul with us. What do you guys think, Well,
my iro stocks are going up, my ang stocks are going down. I
think I partially feel the way you do, Matthew. I mean I enjoyed
the third and fourth episodes more than the first one. Yeah, you know,
episode three did start with like a oh by the way, Ozi is
as awful as Sosen and we need to graphically show you on screen by eliminating
ben Wanan's character faster than American born Chinese got canceled. But it's it.
I agree that that thing at the end, you know, where Aang's kind
of like, is that such a bad thing? You know, to like,
maybe you can count on your friends, maybe you can see the world
like a kid, like, maybe that's okay, Maybe that's actually the way
to move forward. And some of the whimsy and the you know, secrets
on all, like, I did not think, especially after the darkness of
that first episode, I didn't think we I didn't think we were going to
get it, and I didn't think we'd get it in a way that felt
true to the story instead of feeling like it was just smashed in for fan
service. And yeah, I loved it. I thought I thought it was
great to have it. Yeah, that was definitely I kind of perked up
there. You know. I do feel like they were trying to cram four
or five stories together into wy yep, you know, And I just don't
I believe it was literally four episodes. Yeah easily, I mean, because
I mean they're already putting you know, Azula and Ozi on screen and and
Tylee and May and like, you know, it's like I feel like they're
trying to do a lot. Like it reminds me of the DCEU a little
bit. Yeah, the kind of like just kind of just it feels like
rushing, you know, it just feels like they're they're rushing. But I
did feel like there was more of the whimsy, There was more of the
stuff I liked. I did enjoy Iro a lot. I also feel like
they're rushing with Zuko in terms of like having him kind of you know,
have that critical moment where he goes to help I row instead of chasing after
it. Yeah, that felt way too fast. Yeah, it just feels
too soon to me. It also feels like they're really trying to make sure
that like we know that like not everybody, you know, not all fire
benders, you know, and that like the Earth Kingdom also has is doing
bad stuff too, and that you know, war is horrible. And it
just feels like they're trying to do a lot. And I thought they got
some of it, you know, which which for me was better than the
first episode. For sure. The second episode, third and fourth all felt
like, you know, kind of a similar level of quality to me in
terms of like okay, okay, like I'm I'm into it now, I
don't love it, but the performance is still lots of great performances. And
I think that they knew that we were going to do two episodes at a
time because the third and fourth episodes felt you know, paired. Yeah,
I mean it was it was the Omashu arc. Yeah, but Inomashu is
the jet arc, and is the Teo and Zy yeah yeah, and the
Secret Tunnel yeah yeah, yeah. So it's a lot. Let me give
what is at least my understanding of the mission statement of this show as I
think it is expressed. Can you guys tell me if this that you agree
with this or you like it, or you think it's different. We talked
before about a lot about how like Aang being a child, you know that
the part of it's that he like he hasn't learned the things that all the
adults have learned, and that that's a good thing, you know. And
then as we'll especially come up towards the end of the third season, for
me, in this episode is especially I got the sense that they're doing something
similar but a little different to that, which is that this it's saying that
everyone in this world has experienced one hundred years of war, or you know,
has experienced war for their entire lives, which is part of a hundred.
They're experiencing a world that's been at war for one hundred years, and
because of that, everyone is cynical, and everyone is beaten down, and
everyone is doing the best they can for them and theirs because they can't think
about broader pictures, whether that's taking care of your son or taking care of
your city or whatever it is. And then along comes this guy who literally
hasn't lived through the last hundred years, and so because of that, hasn't
had all of that drama and all the bad things that has gone happened to
everyone else for the last hundred years, and so he's able to kind of
be the hope. He's able to be the one who's like, maybe we
don't have to kill our enemies, maybe we don't have to only look out
for our own, which which which feels similar to the to the original but
somewhat different, but in a way that to me feels at least like I
at least no better. I at least now think that start that again.
I at least now think that the creators have a clearer understanding of the original
than they thought they did from episodes one and two, and that they're intentionally
changing it somewhat, but in a way that feels a lot more respectful.
That's a lot sorry, that's fair, that's fair. I mean they keep
repeating the one hundred years thing, specifically, like characters repeating it to Aang
like you weren't here, like Boomy, just over and over, you weren't
here, like I've lived for the last hundred years, You've missed it all.
And it feels a little like bashing over the head to me. That
they're trying to drive this home to the audience and to Aang the character,
and in terms of the hope like I agree, like hope is the message.
People keep talking about hope, like our hope is returned. I think
the Kyoshi mayor said something about hope, like we now have hope again or
something like that. But the problem I have with that message, or like
what you were saying about it, Matthew, is that the character of Ang,
like his personality, seems to be less of the driving force than just
the fact that he's the Avatar, that he's the chosen one, like people
are their hope is being restored because the Avatar is back. It's the message
that I'm getting. And it doesn't it doesn't seem to matter so much that
it's aang or like the things that he does matters, right, Like I
think Tao says something out like now we can fight back because the Avatar is
back, right, Well, I think that's very true. I guess.
I think to me that's part of what he the cycle he's breaking of.
Everyone's looking to him as Okay, you're the warrior, You're gonna help us
kill all the whereas he's he's really trying to break out, you know,
in some ways, him and Iro having the same idea of like all of
us are are trapped as soldiers in the cycle that he isn't a part of.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I didn't like that scene the Iro and
and I had some issues it. Oh well, let me just hear Paul
on my kind of overall thought, and then let's start going on the individual
characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear what you're saying. I
don't see it totally, you know, but I wouldn't say like I vehemently
disagree. I'm like, literally my reaction was gonna be like, yeah,
maybe you know, maybe I don't know, Like I need to see more,
you know, I need to see more. I do feel like I'm
certain that the showrunner and the writer's room and producers behind the scenes and whatever
have an idea of what they want to do with the series. Yeah,
and I feel like a lot of that idea is pretty clear because they constantly
have characters saying things that are super on the nose to express a lot of
that, you know, I feel like it. I feel like I'm not
getting that from the characters. I feel like the characters are telling me that
right, you know, in a very in a way that you know,
sometimes you can do that in animation, in a way that just it feels
different out of a human mouth, like a physical person, because I'm like,
i feel like I'm just tripped up by like I feel like those aren't
the ways that people use words when they're talking to other people, you know,
and that a lot of it feels very heavy handed in terms of like
the gist of it, the point of it, Like I could dig it,
you know, and I can see where it's going. I'm curious to
hear like what would oh also just like very quick thing like yay Aang's a
vegetarian. They didn't mess that up. I was so nervous during that scene,
and I was like, this is either gonna make call happier or it's
gonna be me and wriky for the rest of the you know, and like,
you know, they finally get a little I feel like the cabbages thing
was like the kind of fan service sort of like we're gonna you know,
we're gonna kind of tease you by not sailing saying hello there, you know,
but like and then finally we're gonna pay that off. But like then
they went like full on con right right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's true. It was a lot. It was a lot. It's like
the overhead shot with the camera retreating into the sky so good. Maybe it's
so happy. I wonder how that feels to someone who hasn't seen the original.
They don't get it at all. This guy is so upset about his
cabbages. And that's the definition of fan service, right, yeah. Yeah,
it rewards you for knowing the material. Yes, there's definitely a bunch
of that. There's definitely a bunch of that. And I hear both you
are saying, and I think, you know, I could be very well
wrong or just trying to hyper focus. And I will say, Riki,
I feel like this episode should be the culmination of the frustration and anger that
people have towards him because he was theoretically gone for a hundred years. Like
I feel like we're gonna get it again though, Like he's gonna go to
the Northern Water Tribe and they're they're gonna say, like, we've been at
war for one hundred years, where were you avatar? Like I don't know,
I hope not, but you could. Maybe it's the fact that it
is condensed, right, Like a twenty episode season is being condensed into eight,
and they're like smushing these storylines. So without you know, what we
call filler, Without an episode, you're going to miss some of the whimsy.
Probably yep. And you're gonna every episode someone has to say a hundred
years of war. I mean. The thing is it's it's condensed in terms
of number of episodes, but it's not that condensed in terms of runtime time.
Yeah, that's true, but yeah, it's more like sixteen to eighteen
episodes in terms of run time. Yeah, but but it does because of
the way episodes are structured. You know, you have fewer there's a lot
of just compact little the little story you can tell in one animated episode,
right, And I think the original series does a lot of that in a
way that really serves the gradual development of characters in a way that is just
very I think it's harder. It's a little it's different when you know you're
you just have fewer episodes, even if it's the same run time. It's
like it's not kind of just coming back to this just touching on something and
then waiting a couple episodes touching on it and waiting. It's like here,
it's like, well, if you want to touch on it eight times,
you either got to do it in every episode or you've got to do it
multiple times in an episode, whereas when it's over twenty you could do it
once and then wait a couple, then again, Okay, wait a couple,
then again and again, and it's like, I don't know, I
just think the rhythm is very different. And that's and it's weird because the
cabbage cellar, right, is kind of the epitome of that. Yes,
the fact that we had I think there were two teases of him like showing
up and like starting to say like would you like to try my and like
no, no, no, no. Yeah, But then we got too
we got the can yell, and then at the end when Boomy crashes the
cart, we hear it again. Right, And in the original it was
it was like over the course of multiple episodes. Yeah, it's like a
space gag. Yeah, like spaced like three or four episodes apart, like
oh, like he's in a completely different city. So like the pacing and
the Yeah, it's very off to me, and that the cabbages is a
weird way to kind of symbolize that. No, I see that, I
see that. I want to get more this. I just want to pause
for a quick second to say we've already gotten two emails from fans that we're
gonna be discussing. One of them is specificly about episodes five and six.
The other was specificly about episode eight, and so I just want to encourage
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that by going to www dot Beethical panda dot com. So why don't we
start looking at individual characters and stories Because and you brought up iro Riki I
felt super up and down about Ira, there were some well, actually we
backed that up a bit. There were some parts of IROs story that were
just incredibly heart wrenching and beautiful. The scene where he's talking about his his
dead son. Did you guys catch that the music they were playing, Oh
yeah on the mine, Yeah, that was I. I goosebumps, tearing
up and that scene. Okay, so that scene really worked for me,
not not just like because of Ira Paul song Hin Lee's performance like mostly saying
nothing but just the anguish on his face and the tear drop, but Zuko,
like that was that was a really interesting Zuko scene that we got,
and I felt like it was a good addition, Like that's one of the
few scenes that they've added here that I was like, oh, yeah,
okay, like that makes Zuko his progression better smoother. I felt, yeah,
it makes the relationship work a lot better. Yeah, in this version.
Yeah, I feel like it really adds like depth and context to their
relationship. And then the scene where he's getting on the boat and he's like
everything I need is here, you know. Yeah, yeah, so many
Star Wars lines and it it it feels to me like something I feel like
in terms of story structure, I probably would rather see that later in terms
of actually feeling the kind of arc of Zuko. But if you're gonna have
the arc, if you're gonna kind of try and get people to like Zuko
earlier instead of having him be just kind of like annoying and loud and then
you come around to understanding where he comes from. I think it's very effective.
So I think clearly there, if you're gonna rush an arc, at
least like doing with like great scenes like those, I think it's what I
would say, agreed, Well, I don't. I don't like it was
rushed, that's the thing. Well, but it's rushed in terms of like
it coming so early in season one. I think it's what Paul is saying.
Yeah, like I haven't really had that much time to see Zuko being
so obsessed with the Avatar that he'll do anything if he's already I guess to
sort of amend what I mean. Instead of maybe rushing, if you're gonna
do something faster than you did in the original show, doing it faster and
well like they have done with that, I think is a good choice.
Other things like introducing Ozi and Azula faster in scenes that they added that Yeah,
did not like and I and so I feel like adding more Zuko and
Iro earlier I like and appreciate. Maybe they feel like, if we're gonna
make these two fire Benders, who were kind of the main Fire Nation characters
we see in the first season, if we're going to make them more sympathetic,
then maybe they feel like, therefore, we need to introduce the very
unsympathetic Fired Nation characters faster. I don't know. I know we do.
And he's a great character and great probably well, probably my favorite of the
performances. Really, yeah, me too, well, And I can just
stay on Iro for a second. When I said there's I felt kind of
ups and downs because those moments were perfect. There were other moments that fell
off to me. But I wonder if it's because we're going in a direction
that Riki you had actually talked about. During Iro's confrontation with the Earth Nation
soldier, I was surprised that Iral wasn't more control, wasn't more contrite and
kind of apologetic, you know, learning that this guy's brother had died in
an attack that Ira had led. I think Iro clearly feels bad for him
and has regrets, but he pointedly doesn't apologize, and you know, goes
to saying like, you know, I think you're just as bad now in
terms of the hate you feel. I was wondering, Riki, you've talked
a couple of times about that you would have liked to see more of the
journey Iro takes to get to be this sort of wonderfully I want to say
zen and that's not the right word obviously, but that kind of like he
has come to peace, he's come to terms with his past. This scene
makes me wonder if we're actually going to get some of that journey, because
this is Ira is not quite to the place he gets to in the show
that we saw before of really being at peace with you know, what he
has done and his role in it and the need to do better. Yes,
so I agree with you, Well, I mean I'm agreeing with you
that I said that. Yes. Out here, let me try to explain.
When we first meet Iro in the animated show, I feel like his
journey, like emotional journey is largely complete, right, and what we are
getting is him trying to give the lessons that he's learned to Zuko. Right
in this show, it feels different, and that what I said earlier,
Like I did not like the additional scene of Iro and Aang in the Earth
prison together because it mirrors the scene where Aang was a prisoner on the fire
ship and they have a conversation where Aang is like lecturing Slash, like trying
to convince Iro that the war is wrong, and I don't want that.
Iro should already know that the war is wrong, like that's how he should
start this series because of his backstory. So I don't. I like,
I know it's Avatar and it's Ang's show, but I do not like this
version where Aang is teaching Iro this lesson because I feel like he's he's He's
already been there, So I'm I'm very wary of where this is going.
Yeah, well, what was your take that? What was your take on
his conversation with the with the Earth Soldier. Yeah, I mean the my
take is that I agree with you on that definitely, like that he he's
still not there yet, Like he had the conversation with Ang and the conversation
with Orth Soldier, he keeps spitting the company or the fire nation line right
like I was just a soldier, Like I was doing my job, like
we're both doing our jobs and yeah, like that, that to me is
like the the biggest problem I'm having right now with Iro is that he his
character is fundamentally different in that so that he's in a different point of development.
But I am I'm enjoying the performance more now like from the first two
episodes to three and four, Like, I'm definitely coming around on the performance
and how he's being portrayed. I'm just I don't like where the writing is
taking the character. Yeah, that's kind of like it's it's a version of
the character that isn't the version you want to see, but it's like well
done. Yeah, yeah, well the choices they've made. Yeah, yeah,
I feel similarly, you know, I mean, I I think it's
interesting to see how much bitterness he has towards the Earth Kingdom as particularly like
it's military, you know, and it's you know, the Earth Kingdom is
not known for being merciful to its prisoners. Like it almost sounds like his
son didn't fall in battle, like he was captured and then you know,
murdered, you know, which would be, I guess, an interesting way
to tell the story. Not the way that I would, but like it.
It feels it feels different, for sure, And I really feel like
they are trying to make the Earth Kingdom feel less sympathetic and have like have
have iro still like be angry at them and see them as a military still
as the enemy, and have this bitterness towards them while not necessarily having that
bitterness towards the people of the Earth Kingdom, you know, and kind of
maybe being able to sort the militaries from the people, but basically being like,
hey, when I was born, this war was going on. You
know, our countries have been at war for literally my entire life, one
hundred years, in case anybody forgets how long it's been. And you know,
we just I was born the fire prints, and I was supposed to
do this thing, and so I did this thing, and like what do
you want? You know, and then I stopped doing the thing. And
it seems like the story here is that like he stopped doing the thing because
he decided because he like lost his taste for it because his son died,
right, which is kind of the original story, except I think in the
original story it's more that his son dying maybe personalized the loss and the devastation
and tragedy of war, and that he had all of these right, And
the first conversation he had with Aang made it feel like he had come around
to that. And when he was saying, some say this, it's in
our nature to consume everything. Some people say this, but he didn't say
what he thought and I was thinking that meant that he thought what the Iro
in the animated series things, which is like, we shouldn't be doing this
war anymore, but I can't stop it myself. So I'm going to try
and guide my nephew in a direction where I think he'll be a happier,
more you know, constructive person in the world, where maybe he can then
do something and you know, we'll kind of see how it all plays out.
Whereas here, I feel like it's more of a kind of he's still
in that kind of questioning where like he knows what people set, what people
say, and he knows that he doesn't agree with it deeply, but also
it doesn't feel like he is opposed to it and like part of a secret
organization, and like you know, like like there's there's certain things that happen
later up down the road in the series that here feel like, has this
Iro already been it? Does? I feel like including those elements later which
I won't deeply spoil, but like there's some things that we learned about Iro
in season two, season three or whatever of the animated series that if we
learn those about him, that those are already true. I don't understand kind
of how this version of Iro matches those facts that we come to learn about
him. Yeah, I think you're right, And I think, like I
said, I think if we watch him become the Iro who he is at
the start of the series, it's very different. But I think that could
be very enjoyable. But then I need to know that, yeah, he
hasn't been doing the things that that Iro would have done. One thing I
thought was also very interesting and just kind of gave an interesting to twist on
it. And maybe you saw it already there and the animated, but I
feel like it's being added here when he has that last conversation with Zuko that
to flashback to when Zuko was freshly wounded by was freshly wounded and was on
the boat and all that leaves on the trees started playing again. Which I've
always seen it that Zuko is looking to Iro as a father figure because he
has very recently lost his father. I never thought of it as Iro because
of the loss of his son, kind of wanting a surrogate son in the
same way that Zuko wants a surrogate father. But this time I did,
especially with the playing of that song to me, was kind of a like
not in any kind of like needy or unhealthy way, but that for both
of them there is this loss in their life that they are looking to each
other to help have a similar relationship, which just you know, it makes
it more of a you know, instead of again like Iro being at peace
and Zuko looking to him, it's how are they both going to help each
other towards peace? Which, on the one hand, like if you told
me that one of the things that a modern version of something that was a
remake of something from years ago was going to do was to say that all
the characters are on a journey to find piece instead of some of them actually
are there already, I would say, yep, that sounds exactly like what
a more grim dark version has to be. But yeah, cusec Like the
first time I saw that, I was like, no, Ira wouldn't say
that, And then it was like, okay, no, maybe Iro would
say this, or at least this version of Iro, and the there's a
question of like do we want to see this version of Iral or not?
And I think that's all positions on that are perfectly valid. It's weird because
I would be ill, I will be satisfied at the end of all this
with Iro, because it's a wonderful character. I don't think they can like
deviate that far from the script, so to speak. But and like I
don't know, like did I need this, Did I need just to watch
Ira go through the story again? Like I don't think so, because this
is very much about Zuko going through that journey, right, And we talked
previously in our in our recap about what made that so satisfying was that Zuko
himself like goes through his up ups and downs and back up again, right,
And then so Iro was like always his constant. He came into that
series knowing who he was, knowing what he had to do for Zuko,
kind of like for me, like obi Wan Kenobi in a new hope and
in like all the pre ample material that we're getting right between episode three and
four, obi Wan Kenobi was like sitting in a desert for fifteen years,
but his mission was clear. He was like, I failed, the Jedi
failed. I have to like watch over Luke and help him do the thing.
And to me, that's Iro, Like he comes in, He's like
I I failed my nation, I failed my son. Yeah, I have
to help Zuko and this Iro in the live action Ira, we're getting like
it's it's unclear that he understands that, like he's he's like you've been saying,
like he still feels like he is caught up in the war mode.
Yeah, and is caught up in still being in general, I will say,
I do think that I agree with Paul what you said earlier about the
Earth Kingdom being presented a little less sympathetically. But and I I want to
cut you guys to check me on this because this might be my own internal
bias. I come from a place that you know, yes, when terrible
things are done to people and then people do terrible things in response, like
we get into a cycle where both sides are doing bad things. But for
me, I'm almost never gonna believe like therefore both sides are equally bad in
a situation where there's a clear aggressor and a clear like you know, person
being oppressed and fighting back again. And it felt to me like particularly because
it felt to me like we were supposed to think Iro was not really being
fair with some of what he said that I like, I did feel much
I felt much more sympathetic to the Earth Soldier than I did to Iro in
that moment, and felt like I felt sorry for him, that he has
clearly gone that far into hate as well, and that that's bad, and
that the Earth, like what has happened to the Earth Kingdom is bad.
But to me, I didn't get to a place of Earth Kingdom is as
bad as the Fire Nation, that one is the aggressor and the other is
going in bad directions in response to that aggression. Yeah, I guess I
don't really see it that way. I hear where you're coming from, but
I just thought, you know, the Earth Kingdom soldier was like a douche.
I mean, like like and I understand the idea of like the aggressor
in a war, but like, I don't. I don't think that ever.
Really, I don't care, like who's worse like that, Yeah,
that doesn't seem like an important question to me. You know. It's like
if if we just look at like World War two, and like if we
specifically focus on like the US and Japan, like I don't, I don't
care who was worse, Like I know Japan was initially the aggressor against you
know, the like Imperial Japan specifically against like other you know, parts of
Asia, right and then and then you know, Pearl Harbor or whatever.
But like, I mean that doesn't make the actions of the United States like
not unconscionable. It's like it's one of those things to me where it's just
like yeah, like even contemplating like better or worse, it's like I don't
care, like just unacceptable, you know. And and like if it's literally
something that's happened while defending one's home, it's like it feels a little different,
right, but like that's not what this is. It's like some guy
got locked up and he's going to be sent to a labor camp to like
slave wy till he dies, and you're like kicking him on the way,
you know, Like that's just that's malice and bitterness and an extremely it's a
harmful reaction. Like people respond differently to horrible things happening to them, you
know. And I don't feel like because something horrible happened to you and somebody
else was a part of that, that that exonerates any sense of guilt or
responsibility or whatever. I It's like it's it's a little especially because like the
Earth Kingdom is so powerful and actually, as we come to learn, like
quite oppressive. At the same time, maybe Omashu isn't so much that way.
But like we've got a lot to say about Boston, say that we
had a lot going Yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't you know,
we don't have to to get digging there, quick aside, but yeah,
quick aside. I don't understand the structure of the Earth Kingdom and why Buomi
is a king because there's also the Earth King in Boston. Sight. I'm
just like, I don't understand how the politics of this nation works. Yeah,
yeah, besides that point, right, I the conversation between Iro and
the Earth Kingdom soldier, I often use the phrase manipulative, like that felt
very manipulative on the part of the writers, where the soldier like tells this
story like my brother, you killed my brother, like he burned, like
I can't stand the smell of smoke or whatever, or I still smell smoke.
You don't know what losses and then immediately cut to right, like the
Liu ten funeral, Yeah, with the exposition dump of the people whispering like
he just lost his son, and the siege. Yeah that, like Paul
has mentioned, you know, the writing. I felt like that was a
good scene, but that the writing like to get to that point with the
Earth Kingdom soldier and the exposition from the the attendant attendee of the funeral was
like a little manipulative, so I didn't enjoy it. Yeah, I think
that's fair. And if that scene had been bad, it would have been
brutal. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh, you're going here
now, and then I was like okay, but then they make you cry
we're going here now, And I think I think I think you're saying Paul
is fair. I think, like, yeah, it's not really about who
was work. It's weird because it's like it's not that I want to engage
in who is worse, but that I do think that often the when the
outside perspective can be oh, they're both equally as bad, that that I
find just as problematic. And yeah, yeah, I agree with you that,
like that's not like I'm not interested in who's worse, but saying that
they're the same and equal, I think is it's harmful and like wrong but
also kind of irrelevant. It's like what just why even say that? You
know, just say that they're both bad, don't say that they're equal.
The lesson in these stories is that someone has to stop the cycle, right,
and in this version what we are given, Iro stops the cycle where
he you know, Zuko helps him escape and he has the Earth Kingdom soldier
on the ground and says something like there we've all seen enough death, right,
which is like it was okay, but again, like just it felt
a little it still felt a little aggressive for Iro. Yeah, and so
like, I'm not sure where this character is at. Yeah. I think
that's fair, especially because to me, like, yeah, i think he's
just he's probably not where the animated character was. Yeah, he's he sounded
bitter and again, like I think it was performed well, but it's just
like that's not where I want this character to be right now. Do you
know Paul so hum Lee's screen name unlike everything? Oh yeah, yeah,
that's hilarious. That's hilarious. What do you guys then think of Jet and
his portrayal of this because it did feel like he well I don't want to
spoil my own thing. What would you guys think of how Jet was portrayed?
I mean it was okay, he's got the smolder, this guy,
what's his name, his name real quick. He looks like the part so
much. It's like, yeah, Jet ammo russo like even his like profile
pick in the cast listing. He's got smolder. Oh so I want to
talk to him for a second. But just on that note, I will
say the act the acting. Like I was saying before, I didn't think
that Katara had had much acting to do. I thought the way the actress
portrayed Katara kind of fangirling hard for this guy. But then the moment he
crossed the line as she said it, she was just like, nope,
I'm done with you. Ah. Like I I disagree with her, but
I thought that was very real to her character and very well portrayed by her.
Yeah, she I'm starting to come around on her performance. Her name,
So I believe it's it's starts with a K, but I've I've listened
to interviews and I believe it's pronounced geo and dio. H. So yeah,
I'm I'm I'm. I started off a Sokka fan and coming around on
Katara. Although the two of them, the argument they had in the Secret
Tunnel was like that felt, well, so what do we think of Jet?
Though? I thought that they were deliberately trying to make Jet less sympathetic
in terms of his aims and goals. But I feel like that's not what
I mean, because he's literally trying to blow up like a bunch of people,
right, And I don't know. Oh, and I had the exact
opposite reaction. Yeah, No, I get that. I felt that he
was much more sympathetic, and much more than in the animated because less less
sympathetic. Yeah, so where are you? Where are you with that,
Matthew? Like, Where's I mean? Again, I'm viewing all this through
the lens of everything happening in the world right now in just my general sense
of like anytime you call somebody a terrorist, especially when they're like the one
fighting against oppression, I'm like, come on. But like, to me
it he felt like, you know, in that one, he wanted to
kill a whole bunch of civilians, like a whole towns or civilians. Yeah.
Here he was targeting specific buildings where I think there was like one or
two people being hurt at a time, and then he was trying to target
someone who was like a legitimate spy that was you know, hurting their city
and seeing things through a very problematic lens where he meant that where he sees
that everybody who is connected to this person is also there for corrupt and bad
and terrible and thus must die, which I think we're supposed to disagree with,
but he felt like a freedom fighter, and not to get us off
into a completely different discussion, he felt to me a lot like Sargerera or
Lucian from Star Wars end like Sargorero is from all the things and Lucian is
specifically from Andor, but like he felt like someone who was doing what he
thought was needed to fight, you know, the oppressors. And I disagree
with him to some extent. But whereas to me, Jet in the animated
just hates Fire Nation people and wants to kill them for vengeance, here it
felt like he had a specific idea of this will help us to win the
war in a strategic way. Like I hate Lucian and I hate what Lucian
wants to do, but I agree with him that I'm not sure unless Lucian
did what he does, we get Luke Skywalker. And I think that's what
makes and Or so brilliant is it raises those kind of questions and I don't
think Jet needs to do what he does, but I believe that Jet believes
that he needs it, and to me, that makes him much more sympathetic
than the version in the animated. Okay, In the animated, if I'm
trying to recall, he was going to blow up a damn yep because he
wanted to wipe out a fire Nation encampment of soldiers and it was also going
to wipe out a village, and as a consequence, there was also a
village of Earth Kingdom people that was also going to get Like was it Earth
Kingdom people or was it like a Fire Nation colony? Well, I don't
know. I felt like it was like his people, right, and he's
presumably from the Earth Kingdom. Yeah, I think it was his people.
That there were civilians, right, right? Is the point? So like
in this one, he is his goal is to assassinate the king right of
his own nation, and that's why I feel like he's less sympathetic here.
I agree with what you said and animated he hates the Fire Nation and that's
why he's doing what he's doing, and he doesn't care about the consequences and
the collateral damage in this one. Okay, like he still hates the Fire
Nation because like his his little band is like, all, we're all orphans
because of the Fire Nation. And then he chooses to try to assassinate his
own king because like he has this twisted view of politics and corruption and that
like that's what I don't I don't understand his motives. I think he's just
like a misguided idiot kid in this one. So I thought, I think
I thought that he thinks the king is collaborating with the enemy. Oh,
I did not think that. I thought that he thinks the mechanist is collaborate.
Well, he knows the mechanist is collaborating. Yeah, I think because
the mechanist is meeting with the king, Like he jumps to this conclusion,
right, I didn't even feel that was his conclusion. I thought he thought
that the king was just like old and feeble minded and didn't know any what
was going on in his own city and wasn't going to do anything about it,
and he basically just wanted to affect political change, which yeah, you
know, okay, I mean, if if there was more, it's just
it's I don't know. I I think the difference for me was that here
he's like, I am going to blow up those people, Like those people,
I'm going to specifically murder them, right, as opposed to I'm going
to blow up a damn and it might kill a bunch of people, but
it's and that might be worse in terms of the outcome, but it feels
less personal, you know, it feels less like I am deliberately killing those
people. And there's just something specific about that that, you know, like
maybe it's not worse, you know, but okay, but it feels different
to me. I think I've like masked it out in my head, like
his goal is to he's trying to assassinate the king, like, yes,
his own king, but they have been making it look like it's the fire
Nation, right, because that's why they're using bone right, Yeah, yeah,
so they are trying to frame the fire Nation for a political assassination.
Yeah, it's basically like a false flag, yeah yeah right. And that
and Matthew like that's why I feel he's less sympathetic here because he there's a
there's more of a deliberateness to it, like a misguide. It might have
been a misguided deliberateness, whereas an animated like he it just felt like he
was acting out of anger. M yeah, I think we just we just
had very different views of how it happened then, because I saw what he
was wanting very differently. I don't think that he has made his mind a
sunless space. I'll agree with that. Oh you don't remember the monologue.
Okay, it was just the best monologue in the history of Star Wars.
But that's fine. Never mind is that that's from Ander? Yes? Okay,
fair, it is a monologue. I'm sure. Can we at least
say I thought his fighting scenes and the way they did, like the double
sword hooking together was badass, Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The action continue used to be top notch. The Iro rescue scene. What's
his name, Dallas? Right, yeah, Ko's character, I mean his
acting is also good. But if he got cast just because of how he
does the spin kegs okay with that? Yeah yeah, no he yeah yeah.
And when Paul So and Young Kim had to do his version of like
I was like, okay, yeah, that that really makes sense. Like
the way he kind of like watching him, some of this power through his
movement felt to a non martial arts like me at least very believable. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, he can move too. But it's funny because Dallas
Leo was like almost the only character in shunk Chi who doesn't like do martial
arts in the movie, and I'm like, oh, he's also like an
awesome matter. I mean, maybe the actor hung out with the others,
like screw it doing Mark. Maybe he'll be in the Sea Yeah's sequel.
Maybe what do you think of We talked about them being introduced, and we
don't love how they're being introduced, but just in terms of them as characters,
what do you think of Azula and her Girl Gang, Azula, Miley
and may Tylee Tylie thank you. My one word conclusion is no. My
longer conclusion is too too early. And I don't know what's going on with
this and oh my gosh, you fire Nation whatever resistance fighters don't even know
what your princess looks like. I was really, oh, man, what
was that? I was really like when when I saw Ben Wong, who
plays the leader of them, I was like, oh, he's in this
too, Like I don't even know who this character is and I'm like,
wait, their fire Nation, which I think me underscored the idea that they
really want to show that, like, not everyone in the Fire Nation is
like in favor of the war, which is cool. I also feel like
too soon, Like I don't want to know that yet. I do know
that, but like I feel like I feel like it's okay to And I
think that's something that was so powerful about the original is like that you get
to feel like these are the bad guys, they're the villains, and then
over time you understand it's just a nation of people who's military and government have
been doing horrible things, have been you know, perpetrating this awful war of
conquest. But the country is just a bunch of people, you know.
And and I think trying to show that too early. To me, it's
like obviously they're just trying to do something different and like we'll see, you
know. But I was kind of like, I so he's he's the lead
of American born Chinese and like, which I think is a great show that
got canceled after its first season. It's on Disney if you want to watch
it, and it you know, he's not going to be in any more
episodes of this show, you know. So it's like, oh, although
I think he's he's got some gigs lined up that. You know, look,
if you wanted to come in and shoot one or two sceness, fine,
but sure. Yeah, But like Azula, I was also like,
what's she doing here? Yet I wasn't feeling the character. I feel like
the I want the actress who played Suki to also play Azula. Yeah,
actually that's the same thing. Now that's interesting. Wow to me. There's
two things. One is, I do totally agree these characters being brought in
much too soon, in part because it already starts the idea that Zuko isn't
as bad. Where in season one Zuko is our primary antagonist with coming up
behind him, and then that starts to give you the idea. And then
like in season two it's like, oh wait, now here's Azula, and
then season three it's like, oh wait, here's Ozi, but still mostly
Azula. And so yeah, it feels way too soon to be seeing so
much of Ozi. But also, and Mary Mahart and I were talking about
this a lot. I think a Zula and ty Lee and may may be
the hardest characters to translate from animation to live action, you know, because
in the animation they feel very over the top. They feel not in a
weird way, but like a in the way that an animated character who's a
teenager but clearly has this understanding like they were sexy in a way, like
you know, the camera's focusing on Tylee, like kicking all over the place
and things like that in ways that a lot of bad animation makes very uncomfortable.
I think this show did very well, but not even just that specifically,
but just like they were so over the top. They were so kind
of bigger than life in some ways that I just don't know you can get
with real actresses, real act disccle with meat puppets, yeah, yeah,
with human beings where we're you know, and again because the show is supposed
to be more realistic in that way, you know, we don't see when
a character gets really angry. We don't have the like classic animation, like
all the lines behind them gets squiggly as their eyes bust out. You know,
we don't have the And I feel like Tylee may Azula feel the most
sort of of that kind of a world, you know, I don't like,
I don't know what these actors can do, like in terms of physical
performance. So like I was saying, like if Dallas can spin king,
then maybe maybe these actresses can do some fancy spin kicks and like the ty
Lee does a lot of like acrobatic stuff, right, so yes, yeah,
and there may be like some stunt stunt performers like mixed in. Right.
It's not that I think the actors can't do the physicality of it.
It's that I felt that the characters were very over the top in a way
that I don't know if you can do with humans instead of animation. I
guess I feel like I didn't feel that way so much. I also,
I don't know if I'm alone, but I didn't feel like any of the
characters in the animated show were like sexy. I don't know, Like that
just didn't feel like part of the show to me. You know. It's
like there were like romances, but they weren't like steamy romances. It was
like, it's the wrong word, but I feel like I'm not saying you're
wrong, by the way. Yeah, I'm saying that that's my feeling.
That's my subjective experience. I will say I know an awful lot of people
who watched I know an awful lot of people who watched the show as kids.
Yeah, and had a lot of awakening feelings watching the three of them.
Sure, you know, I mean it more in that way, not
in a way that like I think adults look at like oh that's hot,
but just kind of like there's it's that aspect to the characters that I just
think doesn't translate well. But I think that's just television, and that's just
like animated television, right, Yeah, Like take the Justice League. Wonder
Woman is always running or flying around in her outfit, which is like presumably
sexy. But I don't think as adults we look at that and go like
oh yeah, right, No, I'm not I think that's the wrong word
to use because we're getting hung up on that. I'm not at all saying
that they should be sexier. I'm saying they all felt fairly flat to me.
They didn't feel like, okay, there's also a who no, no,
no, no, I try not to say anything. I'm going to
cut that out. That their characterizations all felt very like, yeah, they
weren't larger than life, right, right, you're saying live action ones,
yeah, yeah, Well, I mean we got like less than a minute
of the three of them. Yeah, yeah, I would you get like
it, so we're like complaining that it's too soon. They didn't really give
us much, but at this point, it is the suggestion that they are
bigger players in what's going on in this season, I think is what we're
getting at because specifically, like at the end, I think at the end
of episode four, oh yeah, Azula is writing back to Jao, Commander
Jao and is kind of like setting him up to take over and betray Zuko,
right, which was is not was not a part of the original So
like in the original the animated series, I recently rewatched it and in season
one, Azula does not have any speaking lines and she only appears in the
background of the flashbacks, but it's like very sinister looking. I was like,
oh, there she is, and I think like the last scene right
of the uh yeah, I think so. I think it was like the
villain like next season villain reveal exactly it's my turn. Yeah yeah, which
is like it was a great reveal and a great kind of like setup of
anticipation for the next season. So again, like that's what I think we're
all feeling, is like why are we doing it this way? And then
reminded me about the thing I was gonna say about that, which is that
I think because all of the stuff of the actual Fire Nation was kept off
screen the whole time that Zuko and Iro are going back and forth about like,
you know, does your does my father hate me? Or will he
ever give me a chance? Or won't he ever give me a chance?
All we know is what Iro and Zuko are saying. Yea. And so
when Zuku actually thinks about going back, we are just as confused he is
because we haven't seen it, whereas in this it's like, Nope, Ozi
is very clearly a horrible person. Zuko, you should never ever think about
going back, right, Yeah, exactly. Your families will of vipers,
your sister wants to kill you. Your father is terrible. Like and the
way that they filmed Ozi, I mean, Phil drew Ozi in season one
of the animated show, Like it's a lot I don't think I don't remember
if they showed his face. Yeah, like it was a lot of like
from behind, like on his throne, like flames all around him, and
so yeah, like it's a very different Ozi portrayal here as well, Yeah,
for sure. And and I feel like it's too soon. I don't
like what I've seen so far. I'm willing to give it some time because
they just haven't had much screen time, you know. I trust that Daniel
Dakim can do a good job of a lot of the part if they give
him lines and actions that are good, you know. And in terms of
Azula and Tylee and May like, we'll see, like we didn't. We
got more than I wanted at this point, but again not very much.
And I guess I don't have the same feeling about them being kind of larger
than life in the animated I feel like everybody's larger than life in the animated
series in a way, right, And I can see how they could pull
it off. I mean, I know people who can like walk on their
hands and you know, do a bunch of tily stuff, and but then
combine that with like a bubbly personality and the ability to then eventually maybe show
another side of her like that. That sounds difficult. Yeah, it's a
challenge. But I thought Zuko was gonna be one of the hardest characters to
pull off, and I think so far they've done a great job, as
you know. And I thought Jao was one of the least interesting characters in
the first season of the original and like here, I think it's may be
the most compelling performance. I'm like, oh like and it's not even like
it's just like the delivery that I don't know. I think Yah Leung is
like doing a great job with the character was on page, you know.
I think that may make it a little more disappointing as well when we get
to the end of his arc, if he's being manipulated by Azula. I
don't know. We'll see, we'll see what HAPs. I will say the
actress portraying may completely nailed that completely dead pan. Yeah, boys, for
sure, for sure. Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. This effected
just like talking like this, like oh my gosh, yeah perfect. I
will also say they shoved in way too many storylines in episodes three and four,
but I was so so glad that they included say and Tao the mechanist
and his son, because first of all, because like this just continues to
be a great time for representation as disabled folks. Like here you have a
character who is in a wheelchair for front specified reasons. The mechanist is able
to use the kind of like crazy science and you know, air air stuff
to make his wheelchair fly, but it is still very much a wheelchair and
and has to push it at one point. And so again this fits for
me the disability in science fiction e magic y worlds, but it doesn't erase
the disability. But also just their characterizations were great, and I loved the
TV show community, and I love the character of Abed. And I should
have looked up the name of the actor, Danny Pooty. Danny Pooty,
thank you. I've seen him play a number of roles since then where he's
basically playing other versions of Abed, and so to see him play something so
different and to play like it's not a huge role but it's one of the
real emotional centers of this particular arc, and to play it with so much
humanity, Like I think we can judge him, but I didn't for a
moment not feel sympathetic to him. I felt very like, this is a
man in an impossible situation. I don't want to I wish he had made
a better choice, but I can't swear that I would make a better choice
in his position, which is to me like exactly the acting you need from
that. And I was just and I love the kid who's playing Teo,
and I just everything about those two and the role they played made me really
happy. Yeah, I'll just co sign that. I'm not sure how much
I have to add, but like I do agree that, like they shoved
a lot of stuff in, but like they did, those two characters,
well, you know, and I'm very glad that those characters are in the
story. I hope they continue being to the in the story, as you
know, at least as much as they were in the original series. And
yeah, it's interesting because like he and Jet Sigh and Jet Right were both
I think they were both. Yeah, he was supposed to mirror each other.
Yeah, basically right, And for some reason I found him more more
relatable. And maybe it has to do with the performance. Maybe it's the
dialogue. I'm not sure, you know, but maybe it's just my own
sort of tendencies. Well, he was in his view, he was collaborating
with the Fire Nation to forestall an invasion, right, right, because he
says, like, as long as I pass information along to them, they
won't exact right right. So he's which what he's not telling himself is I'm
helping them attack other people so they don't attack us. Like I think he's
working in self denial in some extent, but yeah, he has a noble
goal. Yeah yeah, and it feels to me like he's he's kind of
lying to himself about that, right, Yeah, he's he's basically trying to
be like, Okay, I'm just gonna keep my head down and protect myself,
protect my son, and protect my city to the meager amount that I
can and just kind of try not to worry about the consequences of that because
you know, this is I have to do this. And but yeah,
I really enjoyed his interaction with soccer as well. You know, yeah,
like we haven't talked about soccer much, but I felt like we got a
lot more of the soccer engineer angle here, like which did exist. But
maybe that that is a like subtle direction, a subtle different direction that they
can take things in and add that to his character more, because I don't
think it was mentioned very much after the meeting between these characters originally. Yeah,
he was more like the plan guy. Well, I mean there's there's
at least one thing that he designed. Yeah, okay, that's fair.
Yeah, that comes across much later. But yeah, he plays And what
do you think of Boomy fun? I guess it's the main thing. He
was definitely in the episode. I mean, yeah, I guess I didn't
have really strong opinions. I kept kind of trying to square, like,
having seen that the Boomy felt like a character and this story arc, that
was one of the hardest things for me to kind of square with the animated
series, you know, and like they had a statue of Flopsy, right,
but they're like, we're not going to have Aang fighting a giant rabbit,
Like We're just, yeah, we're not going to do that in the
live action okay, And the sort of thing at the end where he's like,
you know, you have to make a choice, you have to kill
me this or that, blah blah blah. It it felt very different to
me. I don't I don't remember whether he was quite that kind of harsh
in the or in the original, but it felt different to me. It
felt more that confrontation felt stronger here. Yeah, I think in the original
he already thinks that what Ag is doing is good. He's happy to see
Aang, but he wants Aang to be the best avatar I can be,
and this, it feels like his frustration and his bitterness towards Aang is more
what's coming out, and I felt like that was I didn't. I felt
like that was a choice that I was very okay with because it's called again
like that they're trying to tell us somewhat different kind of a story and it
is more grim dark because I guess everything has to be more grim dark now
and I don't. I don't if you told me at the beginning, this
is gonna be a more grim dark version of Avatar. I've been like,
that's not what I want. Yeah, But now that I know what we're
getting, I actually thought it worked really well because I did think that was
the episode was really like, Okay, this gets the whimsy, Like there
were so many of the boomy moments, like the bad jokes and the things
like that that were so perfect to the original. What do you mean bad
jokes? Well, exactly, yeah, exactly, bad jokes. But then
the you know that moment of him saying like you have to choose to me,
I don't want to spoil too much. It feels like it very foreshadow,
very much foreshadows a significant part of Aang's journey towards the end where he
is you know, he is told multiple times being the avatar means you have
to make these hard choices and be willing to sacrifice and be willing to do
things you don't like. And Aang is the one person who's like, normally
I hate that, like, oh, you can always find a third way
to not have to make the hard choice. Aang's a character I want to
be able to do that, and I so, yeah, it felt like
I've seen some people be like Boomy would never ever say that, And yeah,
I think I think animated Boomy would never say say the things he does,
especially like like I really wanted him to say, you think like a
child and that's why you're great. Never stop, right, right, But
that's not the best part this Boomy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that
Boomy I feel like lived into his one hundred and teens because he had this
childlike essence right at his core that he'd hung onto for his whole life,
and you know, a kind of like youthful interior that like maybe is part
of the reason that his exterior, you know, persevered for so long.
But like this Boomy feels like, no, he's like old and bitter,
and like a lot of more of the things that I feel are like super
stereotypical and like kind of agist and whatever. And I mean, of course
there's older people who are like that, and of course there's older people who
aren't, you know, and like they decided to go this way, but
he still has that essence in him. It's just it's it's, you know,
one hundred years of war, but like you know, how many I
think it was one hundred, but it it does let it lets Ang actually
like do a thing, yeah, you know, which, like I feel
like he didn't do a lot of things in the earlier episodes kind of where
it's like he gets to hit much the way that Riki doesn't want him to
help Iro on his journey. Here, Boomy has a journey that doesn't really
exist in the other version of Boomy. You know, their Boomy is there
to help Aang on his journey. Here he kind of thinks he's doing that,
but it's the other way around, and he's like, yeah, yeah,
no, I can trust my friends. They're right there. You know,
they just saved you. And that's something we keep getting right because it's
the same thing happened on Kiyoshi Island. It's like, oh, like,
now now that the avatar has shown us the way, like we can rejoin
the struggle. Like that, they're all using like the same kind of language,
and that's why I think, like the cart ride that the two of
them go out at the end is very essential because it shows that Boomy has
gone, you know, has progressed on the journey. The cgi of it
was yeah, but like, yeah, I was so happy when they did
that, you know, yeah, yeah, for sure that was necessary.
There were so many moments in that episode that just like maybe it's fan service,
but it made me so happy, you know, especially when like they
gave us Secret Tunnel, but it was a new verse and I was like,
and then they started to go and I was like, are you not
gonna actually give it to it? And then they actually started singing secret Right.
Okay, I'm gonna whisper this because Sarah's in the other room. I
don't want to hear me say this, but I'm not a fan of Secret
Tunnel. Did that come through? Are you mad at Are you mad at
me? Too? Now? No, mostly I'm mad at myself that I
haven't learned the video response. The video controls yet, because if I've been
able to turn off your video immediately after you said that, it would have
been fantastic. No, I I don't have the love for it that a
lot of other people do. I just like I've come to see it as
a fun essential moment in the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's
It's like it's also definitely not my favorite, I'll say that, but like
it. It was just funny. Like before the show came out, I
was reading a book and it literally said secret Tunnel because the show's coming up,
Like I had to hear it in that those tones, and then we
talked about it like yeah, they're probably not gonna do secret Tunnel, and
then they do secret Tunnel. Well it was funny to me, so like
it. Coincidentally, I watched this or episode four with Sarah, like I
watched the first three without her, but I watched this one with her and
I was kind of like bringing her up to speed and I was like,
yeah, this version is like a lot more dark. And then like it
starts off with like some some dark scene because there the fire Nation scene right
like the the Rebels. It's like, oh yeah, it is dark,
and then the intro starts, and the name of the episode was Into the
Dark. It's like, oh my gosh, yeah, what's going on here?
Yeah, yeah, I figured it. I liked it all right.
Anything else you guys want to say on this episode? I mentioned, I
mentioned Aang. I mentioned like, I'm much higher on the Iro character now
all I'm worried about the direction he's going, like the portrayal and the performance
is great. Bang, Like I took a dip in these episodes, and
I'm I don't know much about a d R. I don't even remember what
it stands for, but I I just it's the American No, It's like
it's like after dialogue recording is yeah, okay, okay, And I just
something about the Ang performance and the way that the audio of his voice was
syncing up just like gave me a DR vibes. And I feel like that
maybe kind of why I'm not digging the performance as much. Auto made a
dialogue replacement. Yeah, it's when they record the dialogue again like afterwards in
the studio and mm hmm and layer it over and so I don't know if
they're actually doing it, but it just something about it, something about his
dialogue, just like didn't sit right with me In this one. I was
reading something that apparently, in some version, like the actor wasn't really enunciating
his words quite as much, and so the director told him to really like
over an enunciate, which which feel like it fits because I feel like that's
kind of what's happening. I have no idea how accurate that is. I
read it on Twitter, so you know, take it with major, major
cartons of salt. But yeah, I feel like the his physical motions are
great. He looks the part. You know, is it the is this
Natalie Portman in the professional levels of kid acting? No? But is it
you know, some of the very bad exactly in the Attack of the Clones.
No, you know, yeah, so we'll think, we'll think yeah,
yeah, yeah. I mean I also feel like I don't know how
much of it's the delivery though, and how much of it's the dialogue if
it's like some of it's just like a little too on the nose and whatever.
But also, you know, Aang hasn't been top you know, like,
yeah, maybe we should just do more backstory and just have them like
chilling with Guillatu more, you know, because that worked. It worked,
But like some of these not as much, but I mean obviously, yeah,
and and that that's the thing, like I know, a like when
we're being critical of performances, and especially child actor performances, like we have
to be very clear these days as fans, like don't harass the performers,
right, hey, don't harass any performance of any age, but especially not
kids here. Yeah, sure, but b like part of performance comes from
experience, right, like life experience or even just acting experience. And so
when you said that, Paul, like that really like light bulb went off
for me, Like the Giazza scenes, Like that's a kid talking to his
father figure and just like having a good time with us his dad, and
so like it's understandable that he can give a good performance there because it's like,
yeah, like that's that's what kids do as the avatar or like having
to talk about responsibility in the world and war like that type of dialogue may
be more difficult for a child actor to deliver with the right gravitas, right,
That's understandable, And so like I don't I'm I'm critical of the performance
because it's not meeting the standard of what I want, you know, the
show to be, but I think it's understandable that it might come off that
way because of these reasons, and that's just kind of like a consequence that
we had to deal with. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's just one
of several reasons that I always thought that this story was just going to always
be a difficult live action adaptation because you know, the main protagonists are very
young, and it's it's hard to act, you know, It's just it's
it's it takes you know, it takes decades to learn a lot of crafts,
you know, and acting. You can have a lot of natural talent,
but it's like you can't have twenty years of experience when you're fifteen,
right, that's not you know, matter. And the difficulty with this,
with this product specifically, is that it's all kind of pre written, Like
they can write different dialogue, but they have the story and they have to
tell the story. And I think about it, like, I was just
thinking about child actors right now, and it brought to mind stranger things.
I think one of the brilliant things that that show does is that it puts
these like wild, you know, supernatural, world bending consequences, but then
it had the actors talk about like D and D and video games and like
put it in reference to like Ghostbusters and stuff, right, and so like
that made those performances more natural and more believable because it was just like kids
putting this like ridiculous thing that they're thrown into, but then relating it back
to things that they know. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
And I'll also say not of his defense going either you were talking about any
means, but just one more thing, like you know, to speak to
the talent of the kid who's playing aang. If an actor is like any
good at that age, I imagine it's because among other things, like you
know, they probably have been like you know, doing a lot of like
child acting, you know, and like school plays or you know, mom
has gotten them an acting coach. Whatever. This is a kid who I
understand has studied more martial arts than probably a lot of people doing their whole
lives at the age of twelve or thirteen, and so like, yeah,
to me him, he really has to have a double skill set that don't
Yeah, many people don't necessarily like don't necessarily have you know, I don't
think many people are training in martial arts and starting in the school play very
often. So to me, like the fact that he is like better than
the average at both with one being significantly high. He's not the most He's
not my favorite performance that I could imagine from aang. But there's nothing about
it that's really pulling me out. And I would say, especially like to
me, the moments where it feels put out, it's because it feels so
on the nose. And I agree with you, Paul, maybe the dialogue
as much as anything there. Yeah, And I mean that speaks to another
thing that makes this serious difficult is like you have to staff almost your entire
cast with martial artists, and then you need them to be able to act,
you know. And it's like I spent a lot of time learning martial
arts. I didn't spend that time practicing acting. You know. I got
to do stunts in some horror movie. Yeah, kicked a naked guy in
the head, but like, you know, it's I also got dropped on
my head on concrete repeatedly, which I don't recommend, Like I do not
recommend anyway, but like, yeah, it's it's a lot. You know,
when you see a twelve year old who's like super good at martial arts,
it's very impressive. And then if they're also even competent at something else,
like that's super impressive, you know. Yeah, and yeah, yeah,
I agree with that. And I think the physical performance is definitely there.
And as I said in the last episode, I think he doesn't have
to carry the show. He just has to exist and then you know,
like be the through line of it and that's okay. And meanwhile, on
the other side, I I think Dallas Leu is a breakout yeah list like
so far, like his I everything he's doing, like in the physical acting,
the martial arts and the acting acting, like I love Zuko and the
original and I think that's that's gonna be my takeaway here is that like this
Zuco performance is going to be a plus. Yeah, yeah, I'm with
you on that, And yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing more from
him. And I think, you know, I think Gordon Cormier, who's
playing aang like he's got time, you know, like I think, needs
to be more compelling in season three than in season one. Yeah, you
know, there's more, there's more weight, there's more, like the burden
he carries gets larger as the series goes on. I thin think and and
you know, some of the decisions get tougher, and like, you know,
it's going to take them years to film the whole series, right,
assuming that they get season two and three, And like you can improve a
lot, like if you're if you're spending time, you know, working on
your craft with other like world class performers, like you're gonna get better.
So yes, And I also think, like I think Aang hasn't been given
that much to do so far. Right in the first half of the first
like three quarters of the first season of Avatar, the two main plot journeys
he has is that he doesn't really he kind of wants to be whimsical and
fun and isn't really ready to take on the responsibility that he has, and
that at first he's really kind of arrogant, or not arrogant, but just
he he loves being the star, and he loves being adored by everyone and
vain even right when when everybody's oh and hey, look at me. And
frankly, I'm okay that like the first one we sort of circumvented, we
talked about that yesterday, But the other one, like I'm pretty okay with
the fact that we don't have that at all. Like, so, yeah,
I agree with that. I think we have a lot of time for
a to do more and we don't really need him to be a top level
actor until till further down. Yeah, So as one go for it,
final thing, I had a random thought. You know, we've been talking
about three seasons, and I'm gonna throw this out to you all to maybe
think about and we can come back to again later and also to the audience,
what do you think about the possibility that the live action show could go
longer than three seasons? Very likely meaning specifically, well, two things awesome,
okay, like spreading spreading it out over seasons, right, like the
three seasons of animated chopping up into four seasons of live action, let's say,
or showing more of the after the end of the series, stuff that
did happen, like canonically in the comic books, like there is story written
for what happens after from purely if they can do it right, I would
absolutely love that, But I'm very concerned about it. And it's entirely due
to the most recent season of Stranger Things, because in Stranger Things they cast
a number of people to all play kids around the same age, but because
puberty happens in different ages and kids age in different ways, those kids were
actually the actors were all different ages because at the time they started shooting season
one, they all look to be around the same age. By the time
of season four they don't, and it really throws off the show. I
think in some very bad ways that some of the actors have really hit their
growth sports and others haven't. And you know, like I like if they
can somehow, Like you know, if you know, if you could look
into the future of all those actors and be like, yeah, we know
what it is, signed me up. But I am very nervous about situations
where you know, andang, maybe he might you know that that Gordon might
start aging in ways that makes him look older than everybody else or and you
can do things with the makeup and stuff. But like, like I think
it's definitely possible. But I think one of the dangers of having a bunch
of kid actors over a long period of time is that the actors may well
age at very different rates than the characters are supposed to, and that could
be a problem. And great, you know it's supposed to be now a
longer show, not just six months, but you know it should be kind
of thing. I'll say first of all Stranger Things, it doesn't bother me
at all. I think it's hilarious. I think because people age differently.
Like I remember growing up and like I have a friend who looks older than
me, and then I look older than them, you know, like I
grew ten inches in a year, like, and I remember people talking about,
oh, the freshman looks so young this year, and I'm like like
six feet tall almost, and like looking down at this senior who's like five
foot six, I'm like, okay, And like, you know, like
it. I understand that it feels weird, and I think if there's like
romances and stuff, it probably feels more weird. But like I don't know
like how people look like in terms of age. Just I feel like I've
got a lot of thoughts on it. Will will not delve deep into it,
but like my thoughts are kind of like non thoughts in a way.
I will say that one thing in Stranger Things that makes it so hilarious is
that they deliberately hired younger looking adults to play the older teenagers, who then
remain being younger looking because it's just like sort of their bone structure or whatever.
And then when the kids who were actually kids when they were grow up,
they then look older than they're younger, that they look older than their
older siblings. Yes, which exactly is that's the thing that kind of seems
weird, but sometimes that happens, you know, like that happens. That's
a thing. But in terms of this series, I think if they stretch
it out over more years, it like within the timeframe of the show instead
of it being like a six month period or something, I think that will
then be more credible and probably not such a big deal. I do think
though, that the stuff that happens after the end of the animated series,
you could just say it happens some number of years later and then e study
just looks older and it's like, that's not a big deal. I think.
Oh. I more mean if like season two of the animated becomes two
seasons of live action so that its fight, so that if we're finishing the
story of the first three seons, Yeah, of the three animated seasons in
five, so it's five years from now is when we're having Child aang But
now Child aang looks like he can buy cigarettes or maybe even beer. Right,
that's when it's gonna feel weird to me. Oh yeah, I hear
you. Yeah, if it looks like somebody's aged six years because the actor
has in the course of like two weeks in the show that happened in Lost,
which we have at least two actors from Lost on this show already,
there was a kid who then got written out of season two or three because
he shot up like a foot and because of however the production schedule is.
They're like, no time was supposed to have taken place between season like one
and two or two and three or whatever. And then they're like, Okay,
this kid looks like five years older than he did like literally a minute
ago in the show, Like what are we gonna do? Yeah, they
just wrote him out. And like you can you can use act you can
use makeup and fashion and stuff like that, like to make an adult look
like a teenager or make a right, but like I mean, unless you
bring in Peter Jackson, like making everyone look a foot smaller than they are,
I mean, I think the Hollywood standard of having adults play teenagers is
just ridiculous and always has been and like kind of hilarious, but like you
know, but it's you just have to have you just have to have the
women have bangs because that's right, universal signifier of being younger. Yeah,
yeah, give all the boys pad of one braids. No, don't do
that, never mind, all right, Well, this has been wonderful.
Thank you both so much for being a part of this. To our listeners,
thank you so much. As I said, there's lots of ways you
can find us uh TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, email, just go to
our website. Would be great to have you, you know, participate in
social media. Let us know what you think, share this with others.
We really want more people to find the podcast to be part of these conversations.
We're definitely go do some feedback episodes. We'll probably talk about the few
things that have come in so far ian just our upcoming episodes. We also
might do feedback episodes to many how many we get. And again, you
can become a member. It's the best way to support this podcast and my
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all so much. Secret Tunnel, Secret Tunnel, I'm proud of you.
Says driving cars is super hard yep if