Welcome back to Blood and Dust. We've had a couple of weeks off.
We're happy to be back, and we're gonna be talking about Olive Oatman.
This is gonna be the final part of the series. I hope you guys
have enjoyed Part one and two. I know we have all found it pretty
interesting and very informative. How are you ladies doing today. I'm joined with
Julie and Cammy. I'm doing pretty good, doing pretty over here, just
relaxing after the holidays. So, now that we've gotten to part three,
what do you guys think so far of Olive Oatman and her story? I
really liked Olive. I thought her whole life was fascinating. I'm sad that
we're ending here of the story. I hope that she was satisfied with their
life and had good memories to reflect on a good deal. How about you,
Kimmy. I thought it was really interesting the difference between reading the memoir
and doing the research online. There's so much more in the memoir. You
get such a more robust picture of her perspective as well as her brother's perspective.
And it's a lot of spots, as you can see from what we've
discussed in the earlier episodes really contradicts what you find just doing general research.
So it's really nice to see that perspective, as colored as it may have
been by you know, how she had to be perceived once she re entered
society. Yeah, memoir is Captivity of the Oatman Girls, correct, yep,
And that was penned by Sutton, the pastor, and he interviewed her
brother and her because either she couldn't write or he couldn't write. I don't
recall which, but he was the one that interviewed them and got their story
published. Yeah. So a few listeners want some further information. I think
we all can agree highly suggest that book. Go get It's very detailed,
very in depth. All right, you guys are ready to get going.
You won't say anything else before we start. Well, let's get into it.
Yeah, let's get in. So on March twelfth, eighteen fifty two,
it took the party eleven days to reach the Mojave Valley. Once they
arrived, the sisters were ushered to the home of the chief, and Olive
had favorable things to say about the chief's daughter. It is quoted from the
memoirs saying the daughter of the chief had been kind to us, if kindness
could be shown under their barbarous habits and those rates of travel while on her
way. She was more intelligent and seemed capable of more true sympathy and affection
than any we had yet met in our one year's exile. She was of
about seventeen years, sprightly, jovial, and good natured, and at times
manifested a deep sympathy for us and a commiseration of our desolate condition. I
thought the way that she described the Indian girl was really nice. Yeah,
I thought that was great too. I think it really shows her trying to,
like, you know, explain that she was treated well and that all
right. The first night, Olive recounts that she and her sister were placed
out upon the green and in the light of a large brisk fire, and
kept up their dancing and singing and jumping and shouting until near the break of
dawn. So the first part of their captivity was met with cold shoulders from
the tribe, and Olive felt that they were tolerated as long as they could
be of use and little trouble. The sisters were for the most part responsible
for the same tasks that they had been given previously with the other tribe,
the exception this time being that they were also subject to the children of the
tribe versus just the women as it had been with their previous captors. The
sisters soon began to pick up the Mojave language, and Olive tells this story.
Mary and I, at their request, sang them some of our sabbath
school hymns and some of the short children's songs we had learned. After this,
we were teased very much to sing to them. Several times. A
small string of beads was made up among them and presented to us for singing
to them for two or three hours. Also pieces of red flannel, and
this was considered something that was it was most valuable that they could possess,
if that makes sense. It was a piece of red flannel. It was
like a sign of honor. Basically, it was like they would give you
that and it would be an appreciation. It was very, very valuable.
After some time, they had several pieces of this red flannel, and they
ended up taking all these different pieces of flannel and they put them together and
they wore them as clothes or articles of clothing, and then the beads were
war around their neck, which was squaw fashion. I couldn't imagine being their
age and just basically being the help by day and jest or by night,
or entertainment by night, I should say my viewpoint from it. Compared to
the first tribe, the second tribe seemed to be requesting them to teach them
a little of their I guess religion, and then as like a good faith
trinket, they gave them things in reward. I guess I took it in
a way as a nice gesture. Yeah, that's kind of where I was
at with it. I think they, like she was saying, with the
with the fabric, the flannel, it was given as a sign of appreciation,
like, hey, are you saying to us we loved it? You
know, here's this take this. Obviously I don't know. I wasn't there,
but the way she described it, I think was kind of how I
took it. I guess if you can say that also to Kammy's side,
you know, if the girls were so used to ill treatment from the first
tribe, they probably thought that as well, even if it was a nice
gesture, you know, definitely, yeah, because they were probably trying to
figure out what was going on, how the second tribe actually was going to
treat them. Yeah. Yeah. In the summer of eighteen fifty two,
Marianne's health against a decline after summer of gathering seeds and berries anywhere from six
to eight miles away from their camp. It is here in the memoir that
Olive begins to truly worry about Marianne and her health. And given everything that
Marianne's been through up until this point, with all the journeys and the sickness
and just lack of food that we talked about, I can't imagine she's doing
very well. It was here that Olive also explained that the Mohave accused her
and her sister of plotting to escape and threatened them with torture if they were
recaptured. As per the memoir, this is direct conflict with other sources that
site. She chose not to reveal herself to a group of White railroad surveyors
who spent nearly a week trading in the Mohave Valley much later in February nineteen
fifty four. So I found this part really interesting in the research because in
the memoir she talks about once again, how her and her sister were accused
of plotting to escape, Whereas if you just kind of do a glossy courtesy
look with what you find on the internet, they basically explained that she chose
not to reveal herself to white settlers who could have helped her. You know,
that was the case. So it kind of leads you to believe that
she wanted to stay here, Whereas if you get this information, it just
looks a little different to me. Yeah, I picked up on that too,
especially at this time. You know, they were wearing the traditional Indian
women garb and most of them. When I believe she came you from being
rescued, quote unquote, her skin was deeply tanned, so she could have
blended in pretty easily as an Indian woman. So they wouldn't have known if
she was white or not if they did see her. That's a good point.
While the origin and meaning of olives chin tattoo is greatly debated, in
her memoir, she recalls that the physician of the tribe entering the chief's hut
while her and Marianne were ushered outside by his wife, who explained to them
that they would be getting the tribal markings on their face. Despite their objections,
they were tattooed with a sharpened stick and the potter of blue stone that
was found in low water. It was pulverized into powder, and they were
told by the natives that they knew why we objected to it, and that
we expected to return to the whites, and that we would be ashamed of
it then, but that it was their resolution that we should never return,
as we belonged to them in their tribe, and that we should wear their
kiache. They said further that if we should get away and that they should
find us among other tribes, or if some other tribes should steal us,
they would by this means know us. The process was somewhat painful, though
it pained us for more to two to three days after at the time of
it being done. I've never personally had a face tattoo, but I can't
imagine the pain of having a tattoo on my face, especially on an area
so sensitive as your like mouth in your chin area. Yeah, I don't
know. I got tattoos all over my body. Honestly, I think the
face would be way less sensitive than some of the other parts, like it's
all about nerve, endings and bone, and like the more sensitive parts of
your body are the ones that don't get exposed to the elements or touch as
much, and your face being one that is always out in the open.
I don't know. I don't think it'd be that painful. That's just personal
opinion, though. If you are a listener of our podcast and you have
a face tattoo, please please drop us a line. I am interested,
and I also, as I go on to describe olives ordeal of it,
I find it fascinating to see her describe the process. When you look at
her picture, and it's obviously normal photos are black and white, but as
they colorized it, it's blue, and I think it's pretty. I think
it's really nice. So to resume all of storytelling. They told us that
they could never it could never be taken from the face, and that they
had given us a different mark from the one worn by their own females as
we saw, but the same with which they marked all of their own captives.
So my understanding, and I'm sure we might put a little bit more
detail lower. They wanted to give them their markings to kind of welcome them
into the tribe, and I know other people might have different opinions, but
that's my viewpoint on it. What was your viewpoint on it? My personal
viewpoint is that what makes me mad as you see a bunch of posts on
Facebook and you see some ignorant comments about them being slaves of the tribe,
were all actuality. I viewed the tattoo, and from what I understand,
historically it wasn't that way. It was actually a marking of saying you're one
of us, now, that kind of thing. So I don't know that,
you know, it is debatable, but historically, speaking with that particular
tribe in the history of them, I don't see it as any kind of
markings of a slave or anything like that. I see it as a mark
saying you're one of us, and now we will be able to recognize you,
you know, if something does happen or whatever the case might be.
I think it really depends on the perspective with which you look at that,
because if you're looking at it from the perspective of the tribe and you know
their cultural heritage, then very very well, yes, it could be very
welcoming. But if you're looking at it from an outsider's perspective, of which
they both were and everybody reading the story would have been. For the most
part, it is more of a brand, it's more of a marking,
and that comes with more negative connotations also with the assumption that she was kidnapped
and being held actively captives. True, I think olivery is really one that
you have to look at from both angles and respect both sides to try and
meet in the middle and get the truth of it. I would agree with
that. I can agree with that to a certain extent because when it comes
to perspectives, I'm probably going to veer more toward the mojave perspective because they're
the ones doing it. Oh no, absolutely, I wasn't signing my opinion
one way or the other, just the way the facts are given. Yeah.
Yeah, And like you have a lot of assumptions and connotations from outsiders
looking in, But that's kind of where I'm at. It's like, I
really don't care what an outsider thinks because they don't actually know what this tribe
is about, how they act, how they are with their people and for
centuries. If they say that that is a sign of you're one of us,
then I'm probably going to take their side to that, Yeah, absolutely
so. As Justin and Kammy mentioned, some people describe the tattoo as a
marking of a slave status, and others say that the argument was the sisters
being accepted into the tribe per the Mojabi tradition, and that they were given
the markings to their own people to ensure that they were recognized in the day
to day living life, but also in the afterlife. I know, we'll
probably touch base on it a little later, but during this time that Mary
Anne and Olive were struggling to find food, it was a drought and as
a result, a lot of the food sources that the Indian tribes would lean
to for nourishment were scarce, and the tribe and the chief's wife and their
family took Olive and Mary Ann in under their wing, and I believe that's
kind of what kick started the tattoo because they were viewed as family. You
know, that was her adoptive mother in a sense. Yeah, definitely.
So, as I touch base just briefly, go there was a famine in
which the tribesmen fell victim and efforts to come back lack of food, Olive
went out with other members of the tribe to forage for what she could.
Marianne became very sick and she stayed behind a lot of the time, so
Olive had to take a burden for herself and her sister to get food.
When the foraging party returned successful, Olive was met despair when she realized how
more sick and frail her sister had become. This is when in my research
the tribe, the wife of the leader started, you know, looking for
extra food for the sisters because of how much they cared for her. Yeah,
and Olive would spend all of her waking hours in search of food for
her sister. She would always try to find out of season blackbird eggs because
that was one of mary Anne's favorites and she knew that she would eat them.
And she has quoted in the memoir as saying mary Anne failed fast.
She and I were whole days at a time without anything to eat, when
by some change or the kindness of the chief's daughter, we would get a
morsel to satisfy our cravings. Even would Mary say to me, I am
well enough, but I want something to eat than I should be well.
And I could not leave her overnight. Several children had died, and more
were in a dying state. Each death that occurred was the occasion of a
night or day of frantic howling and crocodile morning. Mary was weak and growing
weaker, and I gave up in despair. I sat by her side for
a few days, most of the time only begging of the passers by to
give me something to keep Mary alive. Sometimes I succeeded. Had it not
been for the wife and daughter of the chief, we could have obtained nothing.
They seemed really to feel for us, and I have no doubt would
have done more if in their power. My sister would not complain but beg
for something to eat. Oh my godness. And like that's the thing.
If each person in the tribe is trying to provide for their own family too,
you know what I mean. And it's just you're surrounded by starvation,
and it's it's like that scenario and you walk by somebody who's starving, and
it's like you have a little bit of food for your family, for your
kids, and it's like, how much can I actually give up without taking
away from my own Well, that's how this story started. I was just
thinking that her dad said something like I cannot take for my own mouth to
feed your mouth, wasn't it something like that? And I mean that was
a real thing. Especially in a drought in this area of the world.
There's not much out. Yeah. Well, and as young children that aren't
even you know, really fully integrated into the tribe exactly, they have even
less means to get what they need exactly. And it's just it's really really
sad, especially to see like a younger sibling, you know, going through
that, and it's like there's literally nothing that you can there's nothing that you
can do because there is nothing. Oh not only that, but it's like
her last resort to her white culture, you know at that time. Yeah,
you know, her sister's dying and essentially she's just probably panicking because she's
going to be facing us all alone. Yeah, all right. So in
eighteen fifty five eighteen fifty six, mary Anne ends up dying from malnutrition along
with the other children, leaving Olive despondent and her grief. According to Olive,
the chief's wife was passing by mary Anne, who was singing, and
she bent over. Mary Anne looked her face and suddenly started to sob and
remained there for the entire night. The next morning, mary Anne called Olive
over and said, I am willing to die. Oh, shall I be
so much better off there? And then her strength failed and she tried to
sing, but she was too weak. That's when Olive realized the chief meant
to burn her sister's remains, and his wife was able to convince him a
burial according to their customs would be best advised, and her sister was buried
in two blankets, gifts by the chief. It was after her sister's death
that the chief's wife began to regularly feed her a gruel like mixture for her
survival, and Olive is quoted as saying, had it not been for her,
I must have perished. From this circumstance, I learned to shide my
hasty judgment against all the Indian race and all so that kindness is not always
a stranger to the untutored and untamed Bosom. And to be honest with you,
that last little paragraph quote right there, ma'am, that hits, it
hits. And now and the fact that the chief's wife literally was like,
hey, we need to bury her according to their custom, not ours,
that's a huge deal. That is a very huge deal. Yeah, it's
really telling it how they viewed the two girls though, like how lovingly they
held them, and then not only that that they point out that the chief
gifted them with two blankets for the barer. It was a huge deal.
Yeah. Yeah, I have chills on my arms. Yeah yeah, because
I mean they traded with blankets, so I mean that has a monetary value.
Absolutely. And so in January of eighteen fifty six in fort Yuma,
a carpenter took interest in the missing sisters and questioned both settlers and natives for
any tidbit of information he could get. Eventually, he came across the Native
Francisco, who came into Grenwall and asked him why he was asking about the
girls among the natives, to which Grinwell told him that he knew the sisters
were being held captive and unless they were released, the settlers would most certainly
take them by force. This is when we start to get into Olive coming
back into society. About mid February of that same year, after repeated attempts
at negotiations and much debts among the tribe, all of his release to the
custody of the Yuma crier Francisco, who returns her to fort Yuma. Her
captors decide to do this after reading a letter penned by Lieutenant Colonel Martin Burke
and being threatened by Olive with a large army unless she was returned postase that
says a lot, which, if I remember correctly, wasn't that like threat
empty though? Pretty much? Yeah. So, when Olive was nineteen years
old, Francisco, who was a Yuma Indian messenger, arrived at the village
with a message from the authorities at fort Yuma. Rumors suggested that a white
girl was living with the Mohaves, and the post commander requested her return or
to know the reason why she did not choose to return. The Mohaves initially
sequestered Olive and resisted the request. At first, they denied that Olive was
even white, and it was because of her appearance, and she did look
at a picture of her, she's a little bit lighter skinned, but she
did have the dark features and she could definitely, with any kind of a
time out in the sun with somewhat of a tan, she would definitely pass
as a tribe member. Well with that too, and we'll get to the
description. Later, you know, when they were trying to dress her up
for the exchange back into the fort, she didn't have a top on.
So my understanding, if you're walking around half nude in this blistering hot sun,
you're going to become white can over the years. I mean she was
out there for what five years maybe, so I mean that would do it.
Yeah. And the fact she has the facial tattoos, she's half ass
adapted that culture. She probably is. Her whole wardrobe, anything that language
was Indian. Yeah, her beads, everything, out there working the fields
and foraging with the other tribeswomen, So exactly right. So, over the
course of negotiations, some express their affection for olive, others their fear for
repraisal from white people. The messenger Francisco meanwhile withdrew to the homes of other
nearby Mohaves, and shortly thereafter he made a second fervant attempt to persuade the
Mohaves to part with olive. Trade items were included this time, including blankets
and a white horse, and he passed on threats that the whites would destroy
the Mohaves if they did not release olive. After some discussion in which Olive
was this time included. The Mohaves decided to accept the terms, and Olive
was escorted to fort Yuma in a twenty day journey. So Topeka, the
daughter of the chief, went on this journey with her, and John Ryder
reports that Olive's skin was browned and burnt by years of exposure to the sun,
and she was barely recognizable when she was finally reunited with her brother.
She refused to speak and seemed to have trouble remembering the English language. She
was wearing a skirt made of bark, no top and other Mohave garments,
but members of the community provided her with clothing, and her brother and cousins
helped her adjust back into society. She were a veil to cover her tattoos.
Inside the fort, Olive was surrounded by cheering people, and within a
few days of her arrival at the fort, Olive discovered that her brother Lorenzo
was alive and had been looking for her in Marianne this entire time, and
their meeting made headline news across the entire Western country, and Olive's childhood friend,
Susan Thompson, whom she made friends with again at this time, stated
many years later that she believed Olive was grieving upon her return because she had
been married to a mohave man and had given birth to two boys. Olive,
however, denied rumors during her lifetime that she either had been married to
a Mohave or had been sexually mistreated by the Yavapaie or Mohave. In Stratton's
book, she declared that to the honor of these savages, let it be
said, they never offered the least unchaste abuse to me. But her nickname
Bantsa may have meant rotten womb and implied that she was sexually active, although
historians have argued that the name could have different meanings and there is no proof
that Olive was in fact sexually active while she was with them. Yeah,
I've read different viewpoints on her nickname and different theories. One theory was that
the tribesmen did not want to have sex with her because she was of a
different race. But the other theory I heard was that it wouldn't be uncommon
for somebody her age to be sexually active with the tribe because that was just
it wasn't a religious or against you know, the rules. It was just
a common everyday thing. Yeah, so you can take it two different ways.
The part that bothers me is her childhood friend was very specific on what
she claimed to Olive's defense. When you get readjusted into a society like this,
I'll be honest, like, any woman is probably going to deny that,
you know what I mean, Absolutely, they are going to be looked
down upon if they admit that. So it kind of makes me fifty fifty
on that. I'm not sure what to take because, like I said,
Susan Thompson's very specific in what she's saying here. If you take the whole
situation from the empty threats of getting the military involved to have all of escorted
back home. From my readings, all of was very upset to be leaving,
and she was very distraught because she didn't know why she was being brought
to the fort. She just was told that she had to go. And
so if she was in fact grieving, Anne told her childhood friend that,
you know, hey, I'm sad because I'm leaving my family, but I
also children and a husband. If she was going back to the white culture,
and she was truly saddened to leave her family, she wouldn't want her
kids exposed to a life that they would hate. She would want them to
continue living their life in a family that they knew and were loved. And
you know, we gotta think too, like back in these days, you
know her age age range, you know, probably getting married at sixteen years
old, seventeen years old. It's not uncommon at all. Weird as that
sounds nowadays, obviously, but back then that was how it was because life
expectancy was so much, so much shorter at this point. I don't think
after a couple of years, I mean, she had no idea she was
ever going to be going back to the white culture. So why why wouldn't
she decided to take a husband and have some children at a certain point.
And this is just assumptions on my behalf. This is not fact for the
listeners. This is just kind of a thought when you're at that age and
your I guess mindset is, well, I guess I'm going to be living
in this culture now, I'm going to accept this way of life. I'm
going to take on a husband and have some kids. You know, I
mean I could see that adopted. Well, she lost her entire family.
Her sister just passed away, which was her last ties to that family.
Another thing that you also have to keep in mind when thinking about this part
of the story and her narrative. She has no idea that her brother's still
alive, So she doesn't know that she's going back to the sport to be
reunited with her brother. She's just yet again being ripped from another family and
being taken somewhere else. So even if she may have had some relief being
that, you know it's something that she used to know, I'm sure she
was still just terrified, right. And also from Justin's point, you know,
she was adopted into a tribe, especially by the chief and his wife
and his daughter, so that would have led to a high status in her
being, I guess in the marriage market, so she would be viewed upon
as favorable to quote unquote started family with. Yeah, because she was nineteen
years old when they really or gave her up or she reluctantly went. However
it actually happened. You know, she was nineteen years old by that point.
You know, you probably got a couple kids back then. You know,
whether you're white or Native American, it doesn't really matter. Like that
was just how it was, And I don't know. It's just it is
pretty interesting because there's so many different ways. I wish she would have written
something towards the end of her life that was just one hundred percent truthful,
you know, like tell us what you were thinking, Like what happened.
You know, there's no judgment anymore. Just tell us everything that actually happened.
But unfortunately that's not the way it happened. It just makes me feel
even sorry for her, you know, just you know, if that was
true, having that family and you're being ripped apart, and then having you
know, the circus that happened afterwards, and her to be marrying. It's
just kind of makes me sad for her. I agree with both of you
guys. Actually, the memoir they wrote sold thirty thousand copies, so just
think about that. That's so much. Yeah. So, in November eighteen
sixty five, Alive Mary's John B. Fairchild, and they moved to Sherman,
Texas, where he founds the City Bank of Sherman and they live in
a Victorian mansion. Olive becomes involved with the local orphanage, from which her
and John adopt an infant girl, and they named Mary Elizabeth after their mothers
as they were unable to have children themselves. And my understanding is that John
was a very wealthy man. Obviously he founded the bank. She marries him,
and he, from my research, does not like the fact of her
discussing her captivity and her life with the Indians, so he kind of puts
that pressure on her to kind of stop talking about it, and at that
point in time when she decides to marry him, she stops traveling around the
country doing her book tours as well. There's no mention if John was doing
it to protect her or he was embarrassed by her past. I mean,
at this point, she still had her face tattoo, so kind of wasn't
a secret as to who she was and what her past was. But I'm
I'm hoping that it was to protect her, not out of embarrassment. I
think it's interesting that they mentioned they couldn't have kids. I'm curious as to
why. Yes, I was just going to bring that up. Well,
supposedly her nickname was rotten womb, you know that rough translation. But yet
her one friends claiming she had two kids and then she herself olive is like,
no, that's completely untrue. I never had any kids or anything.
And then you jumped forward to eighteen sixty five and they adopted a girl because
they couldn't have kids. Well, if you want to be realistic about it,
she could have suffered from assault, and you know, I had trouble
with that, and then that's where she got her nickname, and then after
that trouble not being able to bear children. That's very good, that's true.
That is true. So in eighteen eighty one, Olive is admitted to
a medical spot in Canada where she spends three months receiving treatment for chronic depression
and PTSD. Actually, on a side note, eighteen seventy seven, before
this, rumors of Olive's death in a New York mental asylum start circulating around,
but that is not true. It was more than likely the author Stratton,
who got institutionalized because there was a hereditary mental illness that would cause insanity
that he was apparently he had succumbed to and he died in that mental asylum.
But in October of nineteen oh one, Lorenzo, her brother, ends
up dying at the age of sixty three, and then on March twentieth,
nineteen oh three, Olive passes away at the age of sixty five of a
heart attack and is buried at the West Hill Cemetery in Sherman, Texas.
Kind of makes you want to go to Texas. Oh yeah, definitely,
I always want to go to these place. I don't know. Her whole
life is just fascinating to me. You know, we've researched her for multiple
weeks now, and it's just I think one of my favorite topics that we've
covered so far. I don't know. I was all right with it,
like it's not I mean, I respect her story and it is super interesting,
but I've read a lot of stories that are super interesting. I think
the part for me that grabbed my interest personally is the uncertainty of how she
actually felt about being brought back into the white culture and taken away from the
Ohabi dribe. I don't know, I agree because I don't feel that she
probably been honest without repercautions from one way or another. That's the part I
think that interests me the most is like after she had been she was in
captivity for about six years, and it's like she had integrated. She had
pretty much forgotten how to speak English. She was one of them it's just
the uncertainty of what she was actually thinking without all these other people saying,
well, she was terrified and she was this, and she was happy and
she was depressed about it, and it's like, how did she feel though,
you know, like really feel. We didn't really go into the stories
of her book travels with Stratton and her brother, but there was a story
that I came across that she was in some city. I don't know if
it was in Minnesota, but it was something local to me, and she
met up with one of the tribesmen of the Mahabi tribe and she was so
happy, and people who observed her was like it was a family reunion,
and she she just looked very content and happy to discuss how tribe members were
doing and how her life was going. I just have been fascinated with her
since day one of me discovering history, I guess, you know, in
my little private school and just learning the different perspectives and the different viewpoints and
how the book was written kind of gain an audience versus the truth. Is
just such an interesting mindset for me, and she's such a striking figure.
It's hard not to want to know what that story right, It just kind
of paints it as a whole picture for you to think about on both sides,
because of the white settlers coming in and taking away the land and how
the white people wanted the Indians to look as these complete savages, and you
know, this kind of paints that inside picture of that that wasn't the case,
and it's it's just a lovely story from that perspective. It really is
the whole narrative though of you know, you have white pastor writing a story
and blah blah blah, and it's like that part kind of bothers me.
I would have much rather Olive known how to read and write and did it
herself without fearing repercussion, because I think the whole story would have actually came
out. It would have been through and like the deathbed confessional, absolutely like
three hundred pages of just a deathbed Here's how it actually went, Here's what
I went through. And she wouldn't have feared any of that. Like I
said, repercussion. She knew she was going to be judged in some way,
shape or form, being integrated back into you know, that society.
But I don't know, well, I just appreciate everybody chipping in for this
one, and it's great to have Cammy on the team. I've really enjoyed
working with her so far and seeing how crazy with the notes she is and
how detailed she has. I'm really looking forward to the next topics we discuss.
Yeah, we had a three part series here Listeners that we easily could
have turned into like a six part We could have basically paraphrased the whole book,
because Cammy is like, Okay, here's what they said here, here's
what they did there, YadA YadA, which is phenomenal. Cammy actually helped
me a lot with the my wide Earth research on my other podcast, so
that's like one of the huge Jesse Yeah, I thought Jesse James too.
Yeah. Yeah, well Julie, Julie I believe helped out with the Jesse
James too. So it was it was one of those things where that's why
I invited Cammy on. I was like, yeah, I think you might
be perfect for this, even though she even though she freaks out when she
talks all the time, you know, well, I just appreciate you guys,
and I appreciate Kammy coming on board. I am really looking forward to
working with you. And I just wanted to say thank you to our listeners
for you know, coming back and listening to us for each episode and topic.
It just means the world to us that we get to share this love
of history with you, ab So thank you. I'm really excited to do
the next episode and jump into like some outlaws stuff, so more fun to
come. Do you want to tell them what the next episode is, Gammy,
Oh, I'd love to. Yeah. So we're going to be looking
into black Jack Ketcham and he did some train robberies and was execut you did,
and just has a lot of really interesting kind of twist and turns in
his stories, along with a lot of really big historical figures that kind of
come in and out of his life. So he kind of has it all.
It's gonna be a what It's gonna be a fun one, all right.
Well, don't forget to check us up on Facebook, Instagram, do
not look us up on Twitter, it's fake out there. Yeah, world
Patreon as well. So and appreciate all you guys tuning in and all the
nice words. And I'm glad the group is active and we're always there's always
somebody posting something wild West or something in there. So if you haven't joined
the group yet, I highly suggested if you're into this stuff, all right,
I don't know. It's about all I got. How about you,
ladies. That's it for me. Well, I suppose we will sign off.
Then I will get this episode out. Hopefully everybody likes it, all
right, I'm sure they will, all right, hopefully, yeah, alright,
I'm gonna stop all right here to do this, sposed to do this,
sposed to do this. Mu and man, man and man. No
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no
no no no no no no no no no