WEBVTT

1
00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:41.840
Welcome back to Blood and Dust.
We've had a couple of weeks off.

2
00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.759
We're happy to be back, and
we're gonna be talking about Olive Oatman.

3
00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.479
This is gonna be the final part
of the series. I hope you guys

4
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:52.000
have enjoyed Part one and two.
I know we have all found it pretty

5
00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:56.240
interesting and very informative. How are
you ladies doing today. I'm joined with

6
00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:00.799
Julie and Cammy. I'm doing pretty
good, doing pretty over here, just

7
00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.640
relaxing after the holidays. So,
now that we've gotten to part three,

8
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:10.400
what do you guys think so far
of Olive Oatman and her story? I

9
00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:15.280
really liked Olive. I thought her
whole life was fascinating. I'm sad that

10
00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:21.480
we're ending here of the story.
I hope that she was satisfied with their

11
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:23.920
life and had good memories to reflect
on a good deal. How about you,

12
00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.359
Kimmy. I thought it was really
interesting the difference between reading the memoir

13
00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:34.439
and doing the research online. There's
so much more in the memoir. You

14
00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:40.079
get such a more robust picture of
her perspective as well as her brother's perspective.

15
00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:44.079
And it's a lot of spots,
as you can see from what we've

16
00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:49.439
discussed in the earlier episodes really contradicts
what you find just doing general research.

17
00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.159
So it's really nice to see that
perspective, as colored as it may have

18
00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.519
been by you know, how she
had to be perceived once she re entered

19
00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:02.680
society. Yeah, memoir is Captivity
of the Oatman Girls, correct, yep,

20
00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:08.319
And that was penned by Sutton,
the pastor, and he interviewed her

21
00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:13.439
brother and her because either she couldn't
write or he couldn't write. I don't

22
00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:15.719
recall which, but he was the
one that interviewed them and got their story

23
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:20.800
published. Yeah. So a few
listeners want some further information. I think

24
00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:24.599
we all can agree highly suggest that
book. Go get It's very detailed,

25
00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:28.039
very in depth. All right,
you guys are ready to get going.

26
00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.159
You won't say anything else before we
start. Well, let's get into it.

27
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:35.479
Yeah, let's get in. So
on March twelfth, eighteen fifty two,

28
00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:39.080
it took the party eleven days to
reach the Mojave Valley. Once they

29
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:45.080
arrived, the sisters were ushered to
the home of the chief, and Olive

30
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.800
had favorable things to say about the
chief's daughter. It is quoted from the

31
00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:53.280
memoirs saying the daughter of the chief
had been kind to us, if kindness

32
00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:58.759
could be shown under their barbarous habits
and those rates of travel while on her

33
00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:04.319
way. She was more intelligent and
seemed capable of more true sympathy and affection

34
00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:08.240
than any we had yet met in
our one year's exile. She was of

35
00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:14.800
about seventeen years, sprightly, jovial, and good natured, and at times

36
00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:22.319
manifested a deep sympathy for us and
a commiseration of our desolate condition. I

37
00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:28.680
thought the way that she described the
Indian girl was really nice. Yeah,

38
00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:30.719
I thought that was great too.
I think it really shows her trying to,

39
00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.319
like, you know, explain that
she was treated well and that all

40
00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.879
right. The first night, Olive
recounts that she and her sister were placed

41
00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:45.400
out upon the green and in the
light of a large brisk fire, and

42
00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:50.400
kept up their dancing and singing and
jumping and shouting until near the break of

43
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:54.520
dawn. So the first part of
their captivity was met with cold shoulders from

44
00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:59.960
the tribe, and Olive felt that
they were tolerated as long as they could

45
00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:05.439
be of use and little trouble.
The sisters were for the most part responsible

46
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:11.560
for the same tasks that they had
been given previously with the other tribe,

47
00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:16.360
the exception this time being that they
were also subject to the children of the

48
00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:21.319
tribe versus just the women as it
had been with their previous captors. The

49
00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:27.560
sisters soon began to pick up the
Mojave language, and Olive tells this story.

50
00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:31.439
Mary and I, at their request, sang them some of our sabbath

51
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:38.439
school hymns and some of the short
children's songs we had learned. After this,

52
00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:42.480
we were teased very much to sing
to them. Several times. A

53
00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:46.040
small string of beads was made up
among them and presented to us for singing

54
00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:51.240
to them for two or three hours. Also pieces of red flannel, and

55
00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:57.800
this was considered something that was it
was most valuable that they could possess,

56
00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:01.079
if that makes sense. It was
a piece of red flannel. It was

57
00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.279
like a sign of honor. Basically, it was like they would give you

58
00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:10.279
that and it would be an appreciation. It was very, very valuable.

59
00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:14.720
After some time, they had several
pieces of this red flannel, and they

60
00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.399
ended up taking all these different pieces
of flannel and they put them together and

61
00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:23.920
they wore them as clothes or articles
of clothing, and then the beads were

62
00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:28.519
war around their neck, which was
squaw fashion. I couldn't imagine being their

63
00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:32.480
age and just basically being the help
by day and jest or by night,

64
00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:38.360
or entertainment by night, I should
say my viewpoint from it. Compared to

65
00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:44.680
the first tribe, the second tribe
seemed to be requesting them to teach them

66
00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:49.000
a little of their I guess religion, and then as like a good faith

67
00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:54.519
trinket, they gave them things in
reward. I guess I took it in

68
00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.759
a way as a nice gesture.
Yeah, that's kind of where I was

69
00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.399
at with it. I think they, like she was saying, with the

70
00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:05.879
with the fabric, the flannel,
it was given as a sign of appreciation,

71
00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:10.199
like, hey, are you saying
to us we loved it? You

72
00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:14.160
know, here's this take this.
Obviously I don't know. I wasn't there,

73
00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.120
but the way she described it,
I think was kind of how I

74
00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:21.279
took it. I guess if you
can say that also to Kammy's side,

75
00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:25.240
you know, if the girls were
so used to ill treatment from the first

76
00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:29.040
tribe, they probably thought that as
well, even if it was a nice

77
00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:32.160
gesture, you know, definitely,
yeah, because they were probably trying to

78
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:35.240
figure out what was going on,
how the second tribe actually was going to

79
00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.759
treat them. Yeah. Yeah.
In the summer of eighteen fifty two,

80
00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:45.279
Marianne's health against a decline after summer
of gathering seeds and berries anywhere from six

81
00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.639
to eight miles away from their camp. It is here in the memoir that

82
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:53.680
Olive begins to truly worry about Marianne
and her health. And given everything that

83
00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:58.600
Marianne's been through up until this point, with all the journeys and the sickness

84
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:02.720
and just lack of food that we
talked about, I can't imagine she's doing

85
00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.759
very well. It was here that
Olive also explained that the Mohave accused her

86
00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:11.600
and her sister of plotting to escape
and threatened them with torture if they were

87
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.160
recaptured. As per the memoir,
this is direct conflict with other sources that

88
00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:19.480
site. She chose not to reveal
herself to a group of White railroad surveyors

89
00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:25.480
who spent nearly a week trading in
the Mohave Valley much later in February nineteen

90
00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:30.720
fifty four. So I found this
part really interesting in the research because in

91
00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:35.480
the memoir she talks about once again, how her and her sister were accused

92
00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:41.199
of plotting to escape, Whereas if
you just kind of do a glossy courtesy

93
00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:46.000
look with what you find on the
internet, they basically explained that she chose

94
00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.199
not to reveal herself to white settlers
who could have helped her. You know,

95
00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:53.120
that was the case. So it
kind of leads you to believe that

96
00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.800
she wanted to stay here, Whereas
if you get this information, it just

97
00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.120
looks a little different to me.
Yeah, I picked up on that too,

98
00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:05.439
especially at this time. You know, they were wearing the traditional Indian

99
00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.279
women garb and most of them.
When I believe she came you from being

100
00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.240
rescued, quote unquote, her skin
was deeply tanned, so she could have

101
00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.720
blended in pretty easily as an Indian
woman. So they wouldn't have known if

102
00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:20.720
she was white or not if they
did see her. That's a good point.

103
00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:26.079
While the origin and meaning of olives
chin tattoo is greatly debated, in

104
00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.680
her memoir, she recalls that the
physician of the tribe entering the chief's hut

105
00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:33.399
while her and Marianne were ushered outside
by his wife, who explained to them

106
00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.279
that they would be getting the tribal
markings on their face. Despite their objections,

107
00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.080
they were tattooed with a sharpened stick
and the potter of blue stone that

108
00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.440
was found in low water. It
was pulverized into powder, and they were

109
00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.600
told by the natives that they knew
why we objected to it, and that

110
00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.279
we expected to return to the whites, and that we would be ashamed of

111
00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:54.679
it then, but that it was
their resolution that we should never return,

112
00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.440
as we belonged to them in their
tribe, and that we should wear their

113
00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.159
kiache. They said further that if
we should get away and that they should

114
00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.320
find us among other tribes, or
if some other tribes should steal us,

115
00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:11.399
they would by this means know us. The process was somewhat painful, though

116
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:13.639
it pained us for more to two
to three days after at the time of

117
00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.039
it being done. I've never personally
had a face tattoo, but I can't

118
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:22.519
imagine the pain of having a tattoo
on my face, especially on an area

119
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.960
so sensitive as your like mouth in
your chin area. Yeah, I don't

120
00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:31.440
know. I got tattoos all over
my body. Honestly, I think the

121
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:37.000
face would be way less sensitive than
some of the other parts, like it's

122
00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.679
all about nerve, endings and bone, and like the more sensitive parts of

123
00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.480
your body are the ones that don't
get exposed to the elements or touch as

124
00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:48.360
much, and your face being one
that is always out in the open.

125
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.879
I don't know. I don't think
it'd be that painful. That's just personal

126
00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.559
opinion, though. If you are
a listener of our podcast and you have

127
00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:58.919
a face tattoo, please please drop
us a line. I am interested,

128
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.559
and I also, as I go
on to describe olives ordeal of it,

129
00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:11.320
I find it fascinating to see her
describe the process. When you look at

130
00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:15.559
her picture, and it's obviously normal
photos are black and white, but as

131
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.679
they colorized it, it's blue,
and I think it's pretty. I think

132
00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.240
it's really nice. So to resume
all of storytelling. They told us that

133
00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.759
they could never it could never be
taken from the face, and that they

134
00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.919
had given us a different mark from
the one worn by their own females as

135
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.120
we saw, but the same with
which they marked all of their own captives.

136
00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.799
So my understanding, and I'm sure
we might put a little bit more

137
00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:43.440
detail lower. They wanted to give
them their markings to kind of welcome them

138
00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.240
into the tribe, and I know
other people might have different opinions, but

139
00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.799
that's my viewpoint on it. What
was your viewpoint on it? My personal

140
00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:56.000
viewpoint is that what makes me mad
as you see a bunch of posts on

141
00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.639
Facebook and you see some ignorant comments
about them being slaves of the tribe,

142
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.879
were all actuality. I viewed the
tattoo, and from what I understand,

143
00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:11.440
historically it wasn't that way. It
was actually a marking of saying you're one

144
00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:16.799
of us, now, that kind
of thing. So I don't know that,

145
00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.440
you know, it is debatable,
but historically, speaking with that particular

146
00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:26.960
tribe in the history of them,
I don't see it as any kind of

147
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:31.720
markings of a slave or anything like
that. I see it as a mark

148
00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.559
saying you're one of us, and
now we will be able to recognize you,

149
00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:39.320
you know, if something does happen
or whatever the case might be.

150
00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.440
I think it really depends on the
perspective with which you look at that,

151
00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.639
because if you're looking at it from
the perspective of the tribe and you know

152
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.240
their cultural heritage, then very very
well, yes, it could be very

153
00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.759
welcoming. But if you're looking at
it from an outsider's perspective, of which

154
00:11:54.799 --> 00:12:00.519
they both were and everybody reading the
story would have been. For the most

155
00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:01.519
part, it is more of a
brand, it's more of a marking,

156
00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:07.200
and that comes with more negative connotations
also with the assumption that she was kidnapped

157
00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.440
and being held actively captives. True, I think olivery is really one that

158
00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:16.440
you have to look at from both
angles and respect both sides to try and

159
00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.600
meet in the middle and get the
truth of it. I would agree with

160
00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.600
that. I can agree with that
to a certain extent because when it comes

161
00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:31.840
to perspectives, I'm probably going to
veer more toward the mojave perspective because they're

162
00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:35.679
the ones doing it. Oh no, absolutely, I wasn't signing my opinion

163
00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.120
one way or the other, just
the way the facts are given. Yeah.

164
00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.879
Yeah, And like you have a
lot of assumptions and connotations from outsiders

165
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:48.240
looking in, But that's kind of
where I'm at. It's like, I

166
00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:54.200
really don't care what an outsider thinks
because they don't actually know what this tribe

167
00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:58.639
is about, how they act,
how they are with their people and for

168
00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.679
centuries. If they say that that
is a sign of you're one of us,

169
00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.559
then I'm probably going to take their
side to that, Yeah, absolutely

170
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.639
so. As Justin and Kammy mentioned, some people describe the tattoo as a

171
00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.879
marking of a slave status, and
others say that the argument was the sisters

172
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.120
being accepted into the tribe per the
Mojabi tradition, and that they were given

173
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.720
the markings to their own people to
ensure that they were recognized in the day

174
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.720
to day living life, but also
in the afterlife. I know, we'll

175
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:37.120
probably touch base on it a little
later, but during this time that Mary

176
00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:43.360
Anne and Olive were struggling to find
food, it was a drought and as

177
00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.440
a result, a lot of the
food sources that the Indian tribes would lean

178
00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:54.080
to for nourishment were scarce, and
the tribe and the chief's wife and their

179
00:13:54.279 --> 00:14:00.799
family took Olive and Mary Ann in
under their wing, and I believe that's

180
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:05.600
kind of what kick started the tattoo
because they were viewed as family. You

181
00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.120
know, that was her adoptive mother
in a sense. Yeah, definitely.

182
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:13.960
So, as I touch base just
briefly, go there was a famine in

183
00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:18.600
which the tribesmen fell victim and efforts
to come back lack of food, Olive

184
00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.159
went out with other members of the
tribe to forage for what she could.

185
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:28.080
Marianne became very sick and she stayed
behind a lot of the time, so

186
00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.159
Olive had to take a burden for
herself and her sister to get food.

187
00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:37.799
When the foraging party returned successful,
Olive was met despair when she realized how

188
00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:43.720
more sick and frail her sister had
become. This is when in my research

189
00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:48.240
the tribe, the wife of the
leader started, you know, looking for

190
00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.559
extra food for the sisters because of
how much they cared for her. Yeah,

191
00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:58.360
and Olive would spend all of her
waking hours in search of food for

192
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.120
her sister. She would always try
to find out of season blackbird eggs because

193
00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:07.159
that was one of mary Anne's favorites
and she knew that she would eat them.

194
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.120
And she has quoted in the memoir
as saying mary Anne failed fast.

195
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.600
She and I were whole days at
a time without anything to eat, when

196
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.279
by some change or the kindness of
the chief's daughter, we would get a

197
00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.320
morsel to satisfy our cravings. Even
would Mary say to me, I am

198
00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.799
well enough, but I want something
to eat than I should be well.

199
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:33.000
And I could not leave her overnight. Several children had died, and more

200
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:39.240
were in a dying state. Each
death that occurred was the occasion of a

201
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:46.039
night or day of frantic howling and
crocodile morning. Mary was weak and growing

202
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.559
weaker, and I gave up in
despair. I sat by her side for

203
00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:56.000
a few days, most of the
time only begging of the passers by to

204
00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.799
give me something to keep Mary alive. Sometimes I succeeded. Had it not

205
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.519
been for the wife and daughter of
the chief, we could have obtained nothing.

206
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:10.000
They seemed really to feel for us, and I have no doubt would

207
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.159
have done more if in their power. My sister would not complain but beg

208
00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:21.559
for something to eat. Oh my
godness. And like that's the thing.

209
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.480
If each person in the tribe is
trying to provide for their own family too,

210
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.840
you know what I mean. And
it's just you're surrounded by starvation,

211
00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.879
and it's it's like that scenario and
you walk by somebody who's starving, and

212
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:40.159
it's like you have a little bit
of food for your family, for your

213
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.039
kids, and it's like, how
much can I actually give up without taking

214
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:48.600
away from my own Well, that's
how this story started. I was just

215
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.279
thinking that her dad said something like
I cannot take for my own mouth to

216
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:56.720
feed your mouth, wasn't it something
like that? And I mean that was

217
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.840
a real thing. Especially in a
drought in this area of the world.

218
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.240
There's not much out. Yeah.
Well, and as young children that aren't

219
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.519
even you know, really fully integrated
into the tribe exactly, they have even

220
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:12.599
less means to get what they need
exactly. And it's just it's really really

221
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:17.279
sad, especially to see like a
younger sibling, you know, going through

222
00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:21.920
that, and it's like there's literally
nothing that you can there's nothing that you

223
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:25.880
can do because there is nothing.
Oh not only that, but it's like

224
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:30.440
her last resort to her white culture, you know at that time. Yeah,

225
00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:34.960
you know, her sister's dying and
essentially she's just probably panicking because she's

226
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:40.559
going to be facing us all alone. Yeah, all right. So in

227
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:47.119
eighteen fifty five eighteen fifty six,
mary Anne ends up dying from malnutrition along

228
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:52.920
with the other children, leaving Olive
despondent and her grief. According to Olive,

229
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.599
the chief's wife was passing by mary
Anne, who was singing, and

230
00:17:56.759 --> 00:18:03.720
she bent over. Mary Anne looked
her face and suddenly started to sob and

231
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:08.359
remained there for the entire night.
The next morning, mary Anne called Olive

232
00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:12.480
over and said, I am willing
to die. Oh, shall I be

233
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:18.160
so much better off there? And
then her strength failed and she tried to

234
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.119
sing, but she was too weak. That's when Olive realized the chief meant

235
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:27.680
to burn her sister's remains, and
his wife was able to convince him a

236
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.880
burial according to their customs would be
best advised, and her sister was buried

237
00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:41.000
in two blankets, gifts by the
chief. It was after her sister's death

238
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.480
that the chief's wife began to regularly
feed her a gruel like mixture for her

239
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:51.480
survival, and Olive is quoted as
saying, had it not been for her,

240
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.319
I must have perished. From this
circumstance, I learned to shide my

241
00:18:56.400 --> 00:19:02.079
hasty judgment against all the Indian race
and all so that kindness is not always

242
00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:07.519
a stranger to the untutored and untamed
Bosom. And to be honest with you,

243
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:12.960
that last little paragraph quote right there, ma'am, that hits, it

244
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.359
hits. And now and the fact
that the chief's wife literally was like,

245
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.880
hey, we need to bury her
according to their custom, not ours,

246
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.920
that's a huge deal. That is
a very huge deal. Yeah, it's

247
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:32.160
really telling it how they viewed the
two girls though, like how lovingly they

248
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.119
held them, and then not only
that that they point out that the chief

249
00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.440
gifted them with two blankets for the
barer. It was a huge deal.

250
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.920
Yeah. Yeah, I have chills
on my arms. Yeah yeah, because

251
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.359
I mean they traded with blankets,
so I mean that has a monetary value.

252
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:51.359
Absolutely. And so in January of
eighteen fifty six in fort Yuma,

253
00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:56.000
a carpenter took interest in the missing
sisters and questioned both settlers and natives for

254
00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:00.400
any tidbit of information he could get. Eventually, he came across the Native

255
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:06.000
Francisco, who came into Grenwall and
asked him why he was asking about the

256
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:10.200
girls among the natives, to which
Grinwell told him that he knew the sisters

257
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.839
were being held captive and unless they
were released, the settlers would most certainly

258
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.640
take them by force. This is
when we start to get into Olive coming

259
00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:25.519
back into society. About mid February
of that same year, after repeated attempts

260
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.160
at negotiations and much debts among the
tribe, all of his release to the

261
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.359
custody of the Yuma crier Francisco,
who returns her to fort Yuma. Her

262
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:40.319
captors decide to do this after reading
a letter penned by Lieutenant Colonel Martin Burke

263
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:45.839
and being threatened by Olive with a
large army unless she was returned postase that

264
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.319
says a lot, which, if
I remember correctly, wasn't that like threat

265
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:55.400
empty though? Pretty much? Yeah. So, when Olive was nineteen years

266
00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:00.200
old, Francisco, who was a
Yuma Indian messenger, arrived at the village

267
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.160
with a message from the authorities at
fort Yuma. Rumors suggested that a white

268
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:10.480
girl was living with the Mohaves,
and the post commander requested her return or

269
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:15.480
to know the reason why she did
not choose to return. The Mohaves initially

270
00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:21.240
sequestered Olive and resisted the request.
At first, they denied that Olive was

271
00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:26.640
even white, and it was because
of her appearance, and she did look

272
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.759
at a picture of her, she's
a little bit lighter skinned, but she

273
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:37.400
did have the dark features and she
could definitely, with any kind of a

274
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.519
time out in the sun with somewhat
of a tan, she would definitely pass

275
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.240
as a tribe member. Well with
that too, and we'll get to the

276
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.400
description. Later, you know,
when they were trying to dress her up

277
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.839
for the exchange back into the fort, she didn't have a top on.

278
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:57.960
So my understanding, if you're walking
around half nude in this blistering hot sun,

279
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:03.240
you're going to become white can over
the years. I mean she was

280
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.039
out there for what five years maybe, so I mean that would do it.

281
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.759
Yeah. And the fact she has
the facial tattoos, she's half ass

282
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:18.000
adapted that culture. She probably is. Her whole wardrobe, anything that language

283
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:23.480
was Indian. Yeah, her beads, everything, out there working the fields

284
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:29.119
and foraging with the other tribeswomen,
So exactly right. So, over the

285
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:34.279
course of negotiations, some express their
affection for olive, others their fear for

286
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:41.119
repraisal from white people. The messenger
Francisco meanwhile withdrew to the homes of other

287
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:47.880
nearby Mohaves, and shortly thereafter he
made a second fervant attempt to persuade the

288
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:53.480
Mohaves to part with olive. Trade
items were included this time, including blankets

289
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:57.440
and a white horse, and he
passed on threats that the whites would destroy

290
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:03.240
the Mohaves if they did not release
olive. After some discussion in which Olive

291
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:08.400
was this time included. The Mohaves
decided to accept the terms, and Olive

292
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:15.559
was escorted to fort Yuma in a
twenty day journey. So Topeka, the

293
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:19.240
daughter of the chief, went on
this journey with her, and John Ryder

294
00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:25.440
reports that Olive's skin was browned and
burnt by years of exposure to the sun,

295
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.799
and she was barely recognizable when she
was finally reunited with her brother.

296
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.799
She refused to speak and seemed to
have trouble remembering the English language. She

297
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:40.720
was wearing a skirt made of bark, no top and other Mohave garments,

298
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.839
but members of the community provided her
with clothing, and her brother and cousins

299
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:51.079
helped her adjust back into society.
She were a veil to cover her tattoos.

300
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:56.319
Inside the fort, Olive was surrounded
by cheering people, and within a

301
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.799
few days of her arrival at the
fort, Olive discovered that her brother Lorenzo

302
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:07.000
was alive and had been looking for
her in Marianne this entire time, and

303
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:15.200
their meeting made headline news across the
entire Western country, and Olive's childhood friend,

304
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:19.039
Susan Thompson, whom she made friends
with again at this time, stated

305
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:25.480
many years later that she believed Olive
was grieving upon her return because she had

306
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:30.960
been married to a mohave man and
had given birth to two boys. Olive,

307
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:36.759
however, denied rumors during her lifetime
that she either had been married to

308
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:42.839
a Mohave or had been sexually mistreated
by the Yavapaie or Mohave. In Stratton's

309
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:48.279
book, she declared that to the
honor of these savages, let it be

310
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:55.079
said, they never offered the least
unchaste abuse to me. But her nickname

311
00:24:55.400 --> 00:25:02.240
Bantsa may have meant rotten womb and
implied that she was sexually active, although

312
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:07.720
historians have argued that the name could
have different meanings and there is no proof

313
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:12.720
that Olive was in fact sexually active
while she was with them. Yeah,

314
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:19.279
I've read different viewpoints on her nickname
and different theories. One theory was that

315
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.920
the tribesmen did not want to have
sex with her because she was of a

316
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:29.519
different race. But the other theory
I heard was that it wouldn't be uncommon

317
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:34.559
for somebody her age to be sexually
active with the tribe because that was just

318
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.240
it wasn't a religious or against you
know, the rules. It was just

319
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.240
a common everyday thing. Yeah,
so you can take it two different ways.

320
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:49.759
The part that bothers me is her
childhood friend was very specific on what

321
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:56.599
she claimed to Olive's defense. When
you get readjusted into a society like this,

322
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:02.279
I'll be honest, like, any
woman is probably going to deny that,

323
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:06.240
you know what I mean, Absolutely, they are going to be looked

324
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:11.000
down upon if they admit that.
So it kind of makes me fifty fifty

325
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:15.319
on that. I'm not sure what
to take because, like I said,

326
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:19.359
Susan Thompson's very specific in what she's
saying here. If you take the whole

327
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:26.240
situation from the empty threats of getting
the military involved to have all of escorted

328
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:30.759
back home. From my readings,
all of was very upset to be leaving,

329
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.839
and she was very distraught because she
didn't know why she was being brought

330
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:36.599
to the fort. She just was
told that she had to go. And

331
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.880
so if she was in fact grieving, Anne told her childhood friend that,

332
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:41.680
you know, hey, I'm sad
because I'm leaving my family, but I

333
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:47.079
also children and a husband. If
she was going back to the white culture,

334
00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:49.519
and she was truly saddened to leave
her family, she wouldn't want her

335
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.720
kids exposed to a life that they
would hate. She would want them to

336
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:59.119
continue living their life in a family
that they knew and were loved. And

337
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.680
you know, we gotta think too, like back in these days, you

338
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:07.319
know her age age range, you
know, probably getting married at sixteen years

339
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.759
old, seventeen years old. It's
not uncommon at all. Weird as that

340
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.720
sounds nowadays, obviously, but back
then that was how it was because life

341
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:22.119
expectancy was so much, so much
shorter at this point. I don't think

342
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.440
after a couple of years, I
mean, she had no idea she was

343
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:32.559
ever going to be going back to
the white culture. So why why wouldn't

344
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.000
she decided to take a husband and
have some children at a certain point.

345
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.559
And this is just assumptions on my
behalf. This is not fact for the

346
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:45.079
listeners. This is just kind of
a thought when you're at that age and

347
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.960
your I guess mindset is, well, I guess I'm going to be living

348
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.440
in this culture now, I'm going
to accept this way of life. I'm

349
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.680
going to take on a husband and
have some kids. You know, I

350
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.279
mean I could see that adopted.
Well, she lost her entire family.

351
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.279
Her sister just passed away, which
was her last ties to that family.

352
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:10.960
Another thing that you also have to
keep in mind when thinking about this part

353
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.640
of the story and her narrative.
She has no idea that her brother's still

354
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:18.240
alive, So she doesn't know that
she's going back to the sport to be

355
00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.720
reunited with her brother. She's just
yet again being ripped from another family and

356
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:29.160
being taken somewhere else. So even
if she may have had some relief being

357
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:32.599
that, you know it's something that
she used to know, I'm sure she

358
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:37.799
was still just terrified, right.
And also from Justin's point, you know,

359
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.200
she was adopted into a tribe,
especially by the chief and his wife

360
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:48.519
and his daughter, so that would
have led to a high status in her

361
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.240
being, I guess in the marriage
market, so she would be viewed upon

362
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:56.279
as favorable to quote unquote started family
with. Yeah, because she was nineteen

363
00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:03.799
years old when they really or gave
her up or she reluctantly went. However

364
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.799
it actually happened. You know,
she was nineteen years old by that point.

365
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.480
You know, you probably got a
couple kids back then. You know,

366
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.200
whether you're white or Native American,
it doesn't really matter. Like that

367
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.079
was just how it was, And
I don't know. It's just it is

368
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:25.079
pretty interesting because there's so many different
ways. I wish she would have written

369
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:29.640
something towards the end of her life
that was just one hundred percent truthful,

370
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.799
you know, like tell us what
you were thinking, Like what happened.

371
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.079
You know, there's no judgment anymore. Just tell us everything that actually happened.

372
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.039
But unfortunately that's not the way it
happened. It just makes me feel

373
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:45.400
even sorry for her, you know, just you know, if that was

374
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.359
true, having that family and you're
being ripped apart, and then having you

375
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:52.480
know, the circus that happened afterwards, and her to be marrying. It's

376
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:55.319
just kind of makes me sad for
her. I agree with both of you

377
00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:00.519
guys. Actually, the memoir they
wrote sold thirty thousand copies, so just

378
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.839
think about that. That's so much. Yeah. So, in November eighteen

379
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.759
sixty five, Alive Mary's John B. Fairchild, and they moved to Sherman,

380
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.920
Texas, where he founds the City
Bank of Sherman and they live in

381
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.559
a Victorian mansion. Olive becomes involved
with the local orphanage, from which her

382
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.400
and John adopt an infant girl,
and they named Mary Elizabeth after their mothers

383
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.279
as they were unable to have children
themselves. And my understanding is that John

384
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:29.039
was a very wealthy man. Obviously
he founded the bank. She marries him,

385
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.920
and he, from my research,
does not like the fact of her

386
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:40.119
discussing her captivity and her life with
the Indians, so he kind of puts

387
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:45.279
that pressure on her to kind of
stop talking about it, and at that

388
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:49.000
point in time when she decides to
marry him, she stops traveling around the

389
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:55.559
country doing her book tours as well. There's no mention if John was doing

390
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:59.880
it to protect her or he was
embarrassed by her past. I mean,

391
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.440
at this point, she still had
her face tattoo, so kind of wasn't

392
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.480
a secret as to who she was
and what her past was. But I'm

393
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.559
I'm hoping that it was to protect
her, not out of embarrassment. I

394
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.640
think it's interesting that they mentioned they
couldn't have kids. I'm curious as to

395
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.079
why. Yes, I was just
going to bring that up. Well,

396
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:22.880
supposedly her nickname was rotten womb,
you know that rough translation. But yet

397
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:29.279
her one friends claiming she had two
kids and then she herself olive is like,

398
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.480
no, that's completely untrue. I
never had any kids or anything.

399
00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:37.480
And then you jumped forward to eighteen
sixty five and they adopted a girl because

400
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.559
they couldn't have kids. Well,
if you want to be realistic about it,

401
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.480
she could have suffered from assault,
and you know, I had trouble

402
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.039
with that, and then that's where
she got her nickname, and then after

403
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.599
that trouble not being able to bear
children. That's very good, that's true.

404
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.559
That is true. So in eighteen
eighty one, Olive is admitted to

405
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:01.720
a medical spot in Canada where she
spends three months receiving treatment for chronic depression

406
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:07.799
and PTSD. Actually, on a
side note, eighteen seventy seven, before

407
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:15.200
this, rumors of Olive's death in
a New York mental asylum start circulating around,

408
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.880
but that is not true. It
was more than likely the author Stratton,

409
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:28.119
who got institutionalized because there was a
hereditary mental illness that would cause insanity

410
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.839
that he was apparently he had succumbed
to and he died in that mental asylum.

411
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:38.519
But in October of nineteen oh one, Lorenzo, her brother, ends

412
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:44.319
up dying at the age of sixty
three, and then on March twentieth,

413
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:49.359
nineteen oh three, Olive passes away
at the age of sixty five of a

414
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.519
heart attack and is buried at the
West Hill Cemetery in Sherman, Texas.

415
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:58.440
Kind of makes you want to go
to Texas. Oh yeah, definitely,

416
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:00.680
I always want to go to these
place. I don't know. Her whole

417
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:05.319
life is just fascinating to me.
You know, we've researched her for multiple

418
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:07.480
weeks now, and it's just I
think one of my favorite topics that we've

419
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:13.400
covered so far. I don't know. I was all right with it,

420
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.480
like it's not I mean, I
respect her story and it is super interesting,

421
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:22.119
but I've read a lot of stories
that are super interesting. I think

422
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:29.119
the part for me that grabbed my
interest personally is the uncertainty of how she

423
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:36.720
actually felt about being brought back into
the white culture and taken away from the

424
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.400
Ohabi dribe. I don't know,
I agree because I don't feel that she

425
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:45.000
probably been honest without repercautions from one
way or another. That's the part I

426
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.599
think that interests me the most is
like after she had been she was in

427
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:52.920
captivity for about six years, and
it's like she had integrated. She had

428
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:59.440
pretty much forgotten how to speak English. She was one of them it's just

429
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:05.680
the uncertainty of what she was actually
thinking without all these other people saying,

430
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.159
well, she was terrified and she
was this, and she was happy and

431
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:13.400
she was depressed about it, and
it's like, how did she feel though,

432
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.320
you know, like really feel.
We didn't really go into the stories

433
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:22.199
of her book travels with Stratton and
her brother, but there was a story

434
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:27.079
that I came across that she was
in some city. I don't know if

435
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:30.360
it was in Minnesota, but it
was something local to me, and she

436
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.559
met up with one of the tribesmen
of the Mahabi tribe and she was so

437
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:39.320
happy, and people who observed her
was like it was a family reunion,

438
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:45.719
and she she just looked very content
and happy to discuss how tribe members were

439
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.599
doing and how her life was going. I just have been fascinated with her

440
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.480
since day one of me discovering history, I guess, you know, in

441
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:58.800
my little private school and just learning
the different perspectives and the different viewpoints and

442
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.199
how the book was written kind of
gain an audience versus the truth. Is

443
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:07.400
just such an interesting mindset for me, and she's such a striking figure.

444
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:12.920
It's hard not to want to know
what that story right, It just kind

445
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:17.239
of paints it as a whole picture
for you to think about on both sides,

446
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:22.079
because of the white settlers coming in
and taking away the land and how

447
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:27.440
the white people wanted the Indians to
look as these complete savages, and you

448
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.840
know, this kind of paints that
inside picture of that that wasn't the case,

449
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.559
and it's it's just a lovely story
from that perspective. It really is

450
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:42.519
the whole narrative though of you know, you have white pastor writing a story

451
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.360
and blah blah blah, and it's
like that part kind of bothers me.

452
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:51.599
I would have much rather Olive known
how to read and write and did it

453
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:59.039
herself without fearing repercussion, because I
think the whole story would have actually came

454
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:02.639
out. It would have been through
and like the deathbed confessional, absolutely like

455
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:07.199
three hundred pages of just a deathbed
Here's how it actually went, Here's what

456
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.400
I went through. And she wouldn't
have feared any of that. Like I

457
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.679
said, repercussion. She knew she
was going to be judged in some way,

458
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.440
shape or form, being integrated back
into you know, that society.

459
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:27.079
But I don't know, well,
I just appreciate everybody chipping in for this

460
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.280
one, and it's great to have
Cammy on the team. I've really enjoyed

461
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:35.480
working with her so far and seeing
how crazy with the notes she is and

462
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:37.480
how detailed she has. I'm really
looking forward to the next topics we discuss.

463
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.880
Yeah, we had a three part
series here Listeners that we easily could

464
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.480
have turned into like a six part
We could have basically paraphrased the whole book,

465
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:49.440
because Cammy is like, Okay,
here's what they said here, here's

466
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.559
what they did there, YadA YadA, which is phenomenal. Cammy actually helped

467
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:58.480
me a lot with the my wide
Earth research on my other podcast, so

468
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:01.679
that's like one of the huge Jesse
Yeah, I thought Jesse James too.

469
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:06.719
Yeah. Yeah, well Julie,
Julie I believe helped out with the Jesse

470
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:09.360
James too. So it was it
was one of those things where that's why

471
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:14.360
I invited Cammy on. I was
like, yeah, I think you might

472
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:19.800
be perfect for this, even though
she even though she freaks out when she

473
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:24.480
talks all the time, you know, well, I just appreciate you guys,

474
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:29.159
and I appreciate Kammy coming on board. I am really looking forward to

475
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:31.920
working with you. And I just
wanted to say thank you to our listeners

476
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:37.599
for you know, coming back and
listening to us for each episode and topic.

477
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:39.559
It just means the world to us
that we get to share this love

478
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:44.159
of history with you, ab So
thank you. I'm really excited to do

479
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:47.960
the next episode and jump into like
some outlaws stuff, so more fun to

480
00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:51.599
come. Do you want to tell
them what the next episode is, Gammy,

481
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:53.000
Oh, I'd love to. Yeah. So we're going to be looking

482
00:37:53.079 --> 00:38:00.320
into black Jack Ketcham and he did
some train robberies and was execut you did,

483
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:05.480
and just has a lot of really
interesting kind of twist and turns in

484
00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:10.199
his stories, along with a lot
of really big historical figures that kind of

485
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.840
come in and out of his life. So he kind of has it all.

486
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:15.679
It's gonna be a what It's gonna
be a fun one, all right.

487
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:21.880
Well, don't forget to check us
up on Facebook, Instagram, do

488
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.679
not look us up on Twitter,
it's fake out there. Yeah, world

489
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:30.400
Patreon as well. So and appreciate
all you guys tuning in and all the

490
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.519
nice words. And I'm glad the
group is active and we're always there's always

491
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.480
somebody posting something wild West or something
in there. So if you haven't joined

492
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:42.599
the group yet, I highly suggested
if you're into this stuff, all right,

493
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:44.320
I don't know. It's about all
I got. How about you,

494
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:49.000
ladies. That's it for me.
Well, I suppose we will sign off.

495
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:54.800
Then I will get this episode out. Hopefully everybody likes it, all

496
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:59.199
right, I'm sure they will,
all right, hopefully, yeah, alright,

497
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:12.039
I'm gonna stop all right here to
do this, sposed to do this,

498
00:39:12.199 --> 00:41:00.760
sposed to do this. Mu and
man, man and man. No

499
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:02.360
no no no no no no no
no no no no no no no no

500
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:04.519
no no no no no no no
no no