When there's really big growth, we expect that to feel amazing, but to
our nervous systems, it actually feels very unsafe because if growth happens too fast,
we almost don't have the capacity to hold all of it. And so
because it feels like way more than we could hold, the way our nervous
system tries to protect us is kind of by what feels like sabotage of like
this is too much, do less, and it's almost like it does it
holds us back. We start doing less, we start making less money,
but not because your nervous system doesn't want you to grow. It's just it
couldn't hold as much as you were achieving, which is why like very fast
growth could be a little dangerous. Welcome to imperfect Action. I'm Steph Taylor.
The years, I read all the books, downloaded all the freebies,
and did all the courses, but it wasn't until I started taking imperfect action
that my business had its first million dollar bare. Imperfect action is about doing
things before you're ready, prioritizing consistent action over perfect action, and moving forward
even when you're not sure you're doing it right. On this show, you
can expect mindset advice, actionable marketing tips and strategies to build a business that
brings you more profit, more freedom, and even more joy. Are you
on the list to get my daily businesses? Every day I'll send you a
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Sign up at Stephtaylor dot co, forward slash DBB, or at the
link in the show notes. Hey, welcome back to My Perfect Action.
This is episode seven hundred and twenty three. In a day, I'm bringing
in a guest to chat about a couple of the things that I know are
holding you back from growing your business, keeping you stuck at the level that
you are at. And that might look like procrastination, it might be overworking.
It might be these behaviors that we tend to refer to as self sabotaging
behavior. And today's guest, Marsha Kay, is a nervous system and breathwork
coach. Her big I guest secret source is how you can use that nervous
system regulation to break through the plateaus in your business, to get yourself unstuck,
to overcome the procrastination, the overworking, all of the things the busy
that keeps us at the level we are at in our businesses. Now,
without further ado, let's jump into the chat with Marsha. Marsha, welcome
to Imperfect Action. I'm so excited to have you here. And as I
was saying before we hit record, I feel like I've already learnt a lot
from you, not so much in a business context, but especially around like
all this nervous system regulation that you really are an expert in. And I
want to kick this interview off by asking you how did you get into a
system regulation because it's not really something that when you're a kid, You're like,
when I grow up, I want to be a nervous system coach and
breath walk coach one percent. So first of all, I'm so excited to
be here. I'm so honored to be here. I feel like your content
is just so relevant to where I was a few years ago, and you
know a lot of things honest I started following you are still relevant now.
So I'm just so excited to be chatting with you. But You're absolutely right.
I don't think anyone sets out to be a nervous system and breathwork coach.
And it's kind of interesting. I came here in a very roundabout way
to be honest with you. My background is actually not in this at all.
My background is an actuarial science and economics. So that's where I started
my career. I pretty much would say it's one to eighty degree difference from
where I am right now. So that's where I started my career. I
was kind of like a typical overachiever, just like always doing the right thing,
and that's felt like a very stable career choice that felt like the right
career choice. I was good in math, like just seemed like the obvious
choice. And then two years into that, I was so miserable. I
was good at taking the math exams because I loved math, but like there
was just lack of fulfillment, and so I kind of had my own quarter
life crisis. And I didn't really know what other skills or gifts or talents
I had at that point. So I'm like, Okay, I can't change
jobs, but I could just focus on myself, right, I could just
find ways to make myself feel better in terms of focusing on my physical health.
And you know I did that. I started eating differently and exercise.
I'm like, okay, now mental health and you know, I started learning
about like reframing, okay, emotional health, and so I kind of went
down this rabbit hole of healing and self improvement and taking courses and getting certified
truly just for myself, just to understand if I can't change jobs, how
can I get myself to feel better? And somewhere down the lines, a
few years into that, I was like, wait, I really love doing
this. I've actually tutored since early high school, so I always loved teaching,
and I was like, maybe I could help other people with their journey.
I kind of have a unique perspective, and so that kind of got
me into coaching. But I started out as a holistic health coach. I
was just really interested in the mind, the body, the connection between the
two, and so that's what I started doing. And then at some point
I had to leave my corporate job start my business. And then that's when
it got really hard because it's like, Okay, you have the information,
you have the desire, you know. I thought I set myself up well,
but it was just so overwhelming, and so I started looking for more
tools that were like a little more business orient or just like whatever I can
grasp to and somewhere down the line, I took a workshop around the nervous
system, and when I learned about it, I'm like, Oh, that's
what's happening right now. I'm getting super dysregulated because there's just such a lack
of stability right. All the things that I use to comfort myself, as
like coping mechanisms, my overachieving, my job success, none of that is
accessible to me. Kind of feel like I'm making mistakes and failing left and
right. Was super triggering. And so that's when I learned about the nervous
system, and I basically just started applying it to myself to help me kind
of move forward in my coaching business. And then as I started working with
clients over and over, I would be telling them what to do, and
a lot of the times they knew what to do, but they're like,
I can't do it, what's wrong with me? And I would have to
explain, Oh, that's your nervous system, right, Like I can completely
explain that. And I just realized so much of my coaching is really about
that. That has to be the foundation. A lot of us who know
the right things to do, we just don't know how to do them.
Because our nervous system gets in the way. Mmmm. Oh, there is
so much to unpack in that, but I think I want to start with
how does your nervous system? What are some of the ways that your nervous
system can impact how you show up in your business? Oh, my gosh,
where to begin? It could honestly impact every area of how you show
up in your business, truly, because if you think about it, you
know we're talking about your nervous system. Your nervous system has these three states
without going into detail. One state is a state of safety, where you
feel relatively safe, and then there's two states of feeling dysregulated, where your
nervous system doesn't believe you are safe. And so it acts in all these
different ways. And the cool thing, kind of the scary thing, is
that when it feels unsafe, every system of your body mobilizes, right,
So your vision changes, your saliva changes, your digestion changes, the way
your brain works changes, muscle flow, breath, heart, you name it,
it all changes, right, And so the way this could show up
in your business, like, there's countless ways, but for some people you
become more busy, it feels like it's constantly not enough, I constantly need
to be doing more, constantly filling up your schedule, constantly feeling like I
need to be shaming and blaming myself or I need to be blaming and shaming
other people. Right, So that's we call this the sympathetic state, and
that's kind of like the fight or flight response, right, And really it's
just your nervous systems trying to keep you safe by mobilizing it. It's doing
all of these things. But the problem is in the state your prefrontal cortex,
which is the part of your brain just responsible for executive functioning, so
all the functioning you need to run your business, you know, long term
decision making, creativity, planning, strategizing. It starts to go dark,
and so you start doing, but you're doing in random directions, you know.
So you're you're very, very busy, and you're doing a lot,
and you're pointing fingers at yourself or others, but there's no long term vision
there. Really, you lose sight of that. So that's kind of like
one category, and there's a lot in there that we could break down into
details. And then there's the other group where people who just shut down,
right, and that's your nervous system protecting by immobilizing right. So one way
it's staying safe by taking action, and another way tries to stay safe by
taking no action, kind of like playing dead right. And so this could
look a lot like procrastination. It could look like perfectionism, like if it's
not perfect, I can't really put it out. It could look like just
disconnection, just disassociating, numbing, not doing anything, suddenly feeling like I'm
so late, what's wrong with me? Getting really harder on yourself, So
just like shaming yourself of before, you're just being harder on yourself to motivate
yourself. Here, you're just kind of like constantly putting yourself down, feeling
really hopeless. And the interesting thing is like we go into these states based
on how our nervous system interprets our environment. So there might not really be
anything happening in your outside world in your office, but your nervous system could
be going into a different state, and that state puts this different filter on
the world. So it's almost like reality becomes incredibly distorted, meaning your business
becomes incredibly distorted. The way you see your business becomes incredibly distorted. M
Oh, that makes so much sense. And as you are talking about those
two states, I can see myself in past experiences in both of those different
states. I'm really curious, like in your experience, what can trigger the
two different states? And is it a case of different triggers would trigger you
to mobilize versus or is it like a person by person kind of basis.
Yeah, that's a really great question. That's a really good question. So
there's like kind of two parts to this question, right, Like the first
part is there are some things that we all have in common that trigger our
nervous systems, right, So specifically, our nervous systems interpret change, uncertainty,
and isolation as danger across the board. And I find that really fascinating.
And I wonder if this was your experience too, or the people that
you work with, Like when I started working for myself, all three change,
uncertainty, and isolation, Like suddenly I'm barely seeing anybody, I'm just
alone in my apartment. Suddenly there's complete unstartin I was never had instability and
income or anything like that. I knew exactly what I wanted to do up
until that point, and just constant change, like I think I'm going to
do this and then I have to do something else. So those things for
me were just incredibly triggering, but they're like across the board. Oh yes,
I think about the big like the moment where my business grew so quickly
it felt like it was overnight. There was a huge amount of change.
It happened right at the start of the pandemic, so there was a lot
of uncertainty, and I lived by myself at the time as we were going
into lockdown. So the isolation that was like the triple the triple whammy,
the triple whammy. What was that like for you? Did you feel like
you were shutting down or did you feel like you were just getting like really
busy. It was a shutdown, like I remember so clearly. I was
like, my business is taking off. I know what I need to do,
but I'm sitting here and I literally cannot do anything. That was what
it felt like. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and that same like when
I started my business. That's exactly what it felt like. And I don't
know about for you, but for me, that was just a very unfamiliar
feeling because before I was like I saw myself as like kind of like a
doer, like an overachiever, like just do do do and that was the
first time, like, oh, I can't do anything and I don't know
what it is. And so that makes a lot of sense. And so
there's those things, right, and that's for everyone across the board, which
is why I think, like owning your own business is so triggering. But
then there's also triggers that are individual to you, right, Like I always
say that our nervous system is customized to our lived experience. So for example,
if we were out in the wild and you were walking through the wild
and there was a tiger and you first heard the bushes kind of rustle,
and then the tiger jumped out right, your nervous system would remember anytime you
hear that sound of the bushes start running, right, and that's how it
would keep you safe in the future, so you wouldn't die. And that's
still true. So to this day, you know, it could be like
ten years later, you could have been in the middle of Manhattan. I
know, you heard something in the bushes and you would start running. It
wouldn't logically make sense, but your nervous system was wired to keep you safe,
right, And so that's still true. So if we've had certain experiences
in our childhood, growing up with other people around ownership, anything, if
we had certain painful experiences, our nervous system remembers, and then anytime in
the future anything looks kind of sort of familiar, feels kind of sort of
familiar to that our nervous systems will respond in the way we responded then,
even though it's not really appropriate now, right, it's kind of like it
projects the past onto the present. And I think, like with your own
business, what often happens, it's so personal that your nervous system is projecting
things that happen with your parents, with caregivers, with school, with friends
onto your business, even though that your business is not those people. But
it feels like it is m oh sense that makes so much sense. Like,
as you're talking, my brain's just like connecting all of these different dots.
So, I mean we talked about like surface level, you're either shutting
down or you're mobilizing. What are some other signs that you might not be
regulated? Yeah, so let's see. So like again, we can kind
of think about it in the two categories, right, I think one big
one. Maybe this feels obvious, Maybe it isn't it's very intense emotional responses.
Right. So when stressor has happened, if it feels like very intense,
like the world is ending, like this is everything, Like you get
this like tunnel vision feeling, that's a sign that you're getting dysregulated. Right.
Sometimes it could feel like our reactions are disproportionate and we can't quite tell
why. That's a sign that there's some dysregulation happening, that your nervous system
is thinking what's happening now is actually what happened in the past, and there's
way more danger than is actually present. Right. It could also manifests like
physical sensations. I think people don't realize that when we get disregulated, our
immune system shuts down, our digestion starts to shut down, our reproductive organs
start to shut down. So that's another sign of like chronic dysregulation. Right.
You know a lot of people have gut issues. There's often a connection
there, you know, if you're constantly like I'll have clients who tend to
like hustle and then burn out and they will notice they will get sick at
the end of like that hustle period, right, And it's like that's very
connected because it's connected to your immune system, feeling you know, triggered by
other people, sometimes feeling like the world is against you, or you know,
taking things a little bit more personally. That also could be a sign
of disregulation, because when we're disregulated, we actually are not able to connect.
We go into a state of protection, which is the opposite of connection,
and so feeling connected to others becomes really hard, and you know,
interacting with others becomes more difficult. Perfectionism like it's an easy one, but
I think sometimes people think, oh, that's a personality trait, like I'm
just a perfectionist. It's like, no, that's actually a sign of disregulation.
Is it always a sign of disregulation or like because I can imagine somebody's
listening to this and they're like no, But like, for me, it
really is just a personality trade. You know, it's a tough one.
I would argue that it is a sign of dysregulation, and maybe it's a
little more complicated in that it's a trauma response. Right. So perfectionism across
the board is how you learn to keep yourself safe. Probably at some point
you didn't feel good enough and making sure everything around you is perfect. Making
sure you're perfect, making sure you show up perfectly became a way to kind
of cover up those feelings of shame, to protect yourself, right, And
so now as you're going through life or like you're moving through your business and
things are getting really stressful, that's the protective mechanism that comes up. It's
like, oh, that worked for us in the past, we better do
that now. And so kind of also thinking, I think the people who
would argue no, no, it's a personality trait sometimes confuse healthy striving and
perfectionism. Yeah, okay, and what about procrastination because I know this one,
and also you know I'm a procrastinator, Like that can be a personality
trait as well. Is that similar to perfectionism in this case? Yes,
very similar. And I think procrastination is an interesting one because I think with
procrastination, they're just so much shame. Right. So when we make that
a part of our identity, you know, perfectionists, there could be like
a little bit of like a humble brag to it, right, It's like,
oh, my worst quality is I'm a perfectionist. I do things really
really well, right, And so it's not the best, but there's a
little bit of like pride associated with it sometimes, right, But procrastination there's
usually a lot of shame of like I'm just not someone who can follow through
on things. I'm just not someone who's capable of that, And none of
that is actually true. So what procrastination is actually is your nervous system is
kind of doing the math, and that thing that you're procrastinating is probably one
that's to some degree painful. Maybe when you're doing it, you kind of
feel like a failure, Maybe it's really hard for you. Maybe it forces
you to face certain insecurities you have, right, and so your nervous systems
like, I don't want to do that that hurts me, And so procrastination
is your nervous system's way of keeping you away from the pain, right,
because your nervous system is just concerned with the short term, and so in
the short term, if it could just put off that thing, then it's
keeping you safe. It's keeping you away from that discomfort. And so that's
actually all that it is. And so it's definitely not a personality trait.
It's very much how you keep yourself safe, because I can bet you're not
procrastinating the things that feel really easy to you. You're procrastinating the things that
are hard to challenge you, that make you feel maybe a little insecure,
and that's actually your nervous system just trying to keep you safe. Yeah,
that resonates so much, like as somebody who does tend to procrastinate a lot.
As you're saying that, I'm like, Yeah, the things that I
procrastinate all the things that feel really uncomfortable or feel difficult to start, or
I feel a little bit unclear or uncertain because I don't know what I need
to do to succeed in that. So that really, Yeah, that makes
so much sense. I'm curious to know, Like, what are some of
the mistakes that you see other business owners making that keep them in this trap
of being dysregulated? Who that's a good question. Let me think about that.
I mean, I guess the first one that comes to mind is the
business, Right, I would say that's a major one. And it's kind
of like a chicken or the egg situation. Right, is it the busyness
that creates the dysregulation or did the dysregulation create the busyness? And it's often
some combination, Right, So, often you'll use busyness to like make yourself
feel productive, like I just want to check things off my to do list.
I just need to fill up my time, fill up my day.
But then that leads you to a not having time to kind of think more
strategically and do things that really matter, and then it leads you to feeling
really burnt out, and then that burnout creates more dysregulation. Right, So
I think, like that's one really big thing. I think another thing that
often, you know, I don't know if this is something business owners are
doing. I don't think this is wrong, but I think this is something
that creates dysregulation for a lot of people. And I think it's we really
need to teach business owners to regulate through this. It's the lack of stability
in their businesses. Right. In general, if you're becoming a business owner,
there's a lot less stability, right, And I think we don't consider
how disregulating that could be, and so we're not thinking about that. We're
not thinking, Okay, how do I create stability? How do I make
myself feel safe? And we're kind of like, oh, I'll just figure
it out, and to some degree that is good. You kind of just
got to throw yourself in sometimes start taking action. But you need to kind
of be working with your nervous system, not just ignoring it and being like,
no, it will get better once I'm making more money or something like
that. So it's almost like not accounting for the fact that your business will
disregulate you, and you almost need to be prepared for that and start taking
action in preparation for that. Like that almost needs, in my opinion,
needs to be like a foundational component of creating a business and what kind of
action can we take to prepare for that. So I think the first part
is just being aware of what your nervous system is, what these states are,
and starting to build out a toolkit for what are the things that give
safety to your nervous system, What are the tools that you can use?
And so it's the toolkit. So like building the understanding the nervous system,
building out a toolkit understanding like when I get disregulated, what do I do?
How do I know the differences between the sympathetic state versus that shut down
dorsal state, right because I would take different steps in each one. So
kind of like that understanding and starting to build out that toolkit, I think
is one piece. Second piece I think is kind of like, what are
the routines and daily actions that I take to create some structure and stability for
myself? So maybe finances aren't going to be stable, but we can create
stability through the way we structure our day. We can create stability maybe by
using a tool like breathwork or journaling, whatever resonates with you and is appropriate
to your nervous system as something we do every day, and having routines and
rituals around them. So I think that's a really big one. Of course,
community and connection that's a huge one for our nervous systems as well.
So yeah, I would say those kind of two separate categories the things you
do daily to create stability and structure, which includes community and routines and rituals,
and then kind of building out a toolkit for when your nervous system does
get a little dysregulated. What are the tools you have, what are the
tools that work? How do you kind of make it easy for yourself to
reach for something versus getting just regulated and when it feels like the world is
on fire, expecting yourself to like go and find or learn some kind of
tool, which is just it's not accessible, right, it's almost like too
late at that point. M. But I'm also thinking, like, when
I've been in those kinds of moments where it feels like everything's you know,
either I just want to like hide and do nothing or I want to do
everything. It's easy when you're not in those moments to be like, oh,
yeah, the next time that happens, I will get my journal out
and I'll journal my way through it. But when you're in that moment,
like it doesn't feel possible, or you don't think about it, or you
don't catch yourself. Do you have any tips on how you can start to
notice those moments and change the way you react to them. Yes? Absolutely,
So again to me, it comes down to one, can you start
making time outside of those moments to start to understand your nervous system a little
bit, maybe start using those So let's say you say, like, I
want a journal next time I'm really stressed, right, but you never journal
outside of that To expect yourself to lean towards that, it's going to be
impossible. So maybe it's creating a ritual around that when you are feeling relatively
regulated, something you do every day, so just kind of like the intention
is there, but then it's also learning to kind of like practicing mindfulness,
really learning to befriend yourself and your nervous system, and so in those moments
of dysregulation, noticing them and just getting curious about them, kind of like
the way a scientist would. And I say that very intentionally because I think
what a lot of us do when we're in that moment is we shame ourselves.
We're like, oh, I can't believe I'm here. I can't you
know, I'm never going to get out of this? What's wrong with me?
I shouldn't be here? What do I do to get out? And
there's like this panic to get out of it instead of just approaching it from
a more neutral like, let me observe what does this feel like in my
body? What are my behaviors like? Again, just like imagining you are
a sign, just observing yourself in a laboratory and getting genuinely curious about what
is going on here, And that mindfulness is kind of step one to being
like, Okay, now that I'm observing it, what actions do I want
to take? And honestly, it takes a little bit of like that part
sounds so easy in theory, but it actually takes so much practice and repetition
to consistently practice that mindfulness and become the observer, and to not do that
from a place of shame, which is what most of us do, right,
We like shame ourselves when we're in it, or we just completely ignore
it and we're like, whatever it is, what it is, this is
just my personality. There's no better way, right, and we kint to
just allow those behaviors to just keep happening over and over and over again.
And in that way, it starts to feel like we're sabotaging ourselves. Like
I hate that word because I actually think it's self protection. But it starts
to feel like we are sabotaging ourselves. Oh, Like, for sure,
that's something whenever I talk to my audience, whenever I talk to my students
and my courses, that's something that comes up over and over again. It's
like, why am I self sabotaging? Why am I procrastinating this thing that
I know I need to do because it's going to move my business forward?
And there is so much shame around that, And then they end up feeling
really even worse about themselves. Yes, exactly, And you're right, it's
like that self sabotage and the shame we have around that is such a huge
part of this. And I guess, like a couple of things I would
say is it's not self sabotage, it's actually self protection. And I find
that to be like a helpful, very minor shift that we could make when
we're in those moments that your nervous system is not trying to ruin your day
or ruin your business, right, Your nervous system is concerned with keeping you
safe. It doesn't care about money, it doesn't care about growth, it
doesn't even care about your health. It just cares about you surviving another moment,
you being okay in this exact moment. Right. So we're not sabotaging.
We're trying to protect ourselves, but maybe we're protecting ourselves in ways that
don't align with our business. Right, And in those moments, I really
encourage people to think about, you know, maybe my nervous system has a
point here, not that I should quit my business altogether and stop, but
maybe something here doesn't feel safe. Maybe it's kind of giving me a clue
that something here doesn't feel good to me. And instead of seeing my nervous
system and myself as the enemy, which is like what we do when we
think like self sabotage, it's thinking about how is it actually an ally?
It's an ally that's trying to protect me, So what is it doing?
And how do I start to see that and work with it? Is that
always a sign though? That it's the like that you're on the wrong path.
Like let's say that you are pushing yourself to do something that feels scary
and you find yourself procrastinating it or not wanting to do the thing, and
you're like, oh, is this because it's a bad decision or is it
because I'm just it's unfamiliar? Like how do we know the difference between the
two? Yes, that's such a great question. The answer is no.
The short answer is absolutely no. But I completely understand what you're saying.
And like, one way I explain that is, you know, growth and
safety are kind of opposing forces. Right, in order to grow, you
need to step out of your comfort zone. In order to stay safe,
you need to stay in your comfort zone. Yeah, right, And so
your nervous system is kind of always battling against the part of you that wants
to grow. And so you're absolutely right. When we start taking actions towards
our dreams and goals, we're going to start self sabotaging. I think a
lot of people think, oh, this must mean I'm on the wrong path,
and it means no such thing, and like one of like my pet
Peeves is kind of I think a lot in the self help space there is
like this like, oh, if you know, if it's not yes,
it's a no. And I could just not agree with that any less,
because the truth is, even the things that are meant for you and are
right for you are going to feel very uncomfortable to your nervous system. And
to get back to your question, like, well would you do about this,
It's not that we need to change directions. It's more about thinking,
like, in this moment, how do I make this step a little less
scary? Right? My nervous system is basically telling me this thing that you're
doing feels too overwhelming. It's not the wrong thing, it just feels too
overwhelming. The step feels too big. And so that's actually why I love
the name of your podcast, because I think in those moments it's about taking
smaller steps that are imperfect. Yeah, right, So thinking about a how
could I just in this moment, how do I can bring some safety to
my nervous system. There's amazing tools you can do. You can reach out
for connection, you could reach out for support. Right, So how do
I bring safety? And if I do want to move towards you know that
step that I originally set out for myself, can I make it a little
smaller? Can I make it a little more imperfect? How do I make
it feel a little bit more doable to my nervous system? Mmmm? I
love that And it's such an interesting way. Like I wish I had known
this three years ago when my business grew so quickly. It's like I would
have realized that my it was just all my nervous system trying to keep me
safe. It wasn't self sabotage, It wasn't anything to be ashamed of,
this shutting down, this not wanting to do the things that I knew I
needed to do. So thank you so much for sharing. And I know
that's going to help my listeners big time, big time. And I will
say, if I could just add one thing to that of like Your example,
I think is a really interesting one, which is like when there's really
big growth, we expect that to feel amazing, but to our nervous systems,
it actually feels very unsafe because if growth happens too fast, we almost
don't have the capacity to hold all of it. And so because it feels
like way more than we could hold, the way our nervous system tries to
protect us is kind of by what feels like sabotage of like this is too
much do less, and it's almost like it does it holds us back.
We start doing less, we start making less money, but not because your
nervous system doesn't want you to grow. It's just it couldn't hold as much
as you were achieving, which is why like very fast growth could be a
little dangerous. Yeah, that makes so much sense, And like I can
think even as you're saying that, I can think of times when I've quote
unquote self sabotaged opportunities to speak at events or collaborate with somebody who was like
a dream collaboration because that felt really uncomfortable. So it's like not just like
I guess financial growth or like growth as how we typically define it in business
exactly exactly, and like think about it, you know, all like the
growth. We think of stress as only the bad thing, but stress is
also good things like opportunities are so stressful. There might be like amazing and
you might be so grateful for them, but they're stressful, right, And
so your nervous system, it's really kind of the part of you that decides
how much stress you could handle. That's what it does. It decides how
much stress you could handle. And so if you haven't expanded your nervous system's
capacity to handle more stress, but more stressful things are happening, your nervous
system's like, well, that's not safe. Let's shut that down. And
that is why we know we don't answer that email or like that thing that
we've been dreaming about. We're like, I don't even want to look at
it, like if you've ever had that experience, Oh, it's that Oh.
And I want to talk a little bit more about like the busyness and
that like sense of I need to be doing more. I need to be
doing more, because I know this comes up a lot, especially in the
early stages of business, where you constantly feel like you're not doing enough and
constantly feel like you have to be doing something like anything, and then like
what you said at the stop, but it's all random things. It's not
anything that's aligned with the vision. How do we get out of that cycle?
Yeah? So there, you know, there's like a many ways to
get out of it. But the one I teach people like on the most
basic level, and this might seem too easy, but I think it's the
It's where I always encourage people to start, right, and that is to
understand that when we're in that do more state, it's called the sympathetic So
that's the kind of fight or flight state, right, And in the simplest
way, in that state, we have too much mobilizing energy. Your body
wants to fight a tiger. It wants to fight, it wants to run.
That's what that state was created for. But there are no tigers.
The tiger is your business, an email, a phone call, you know,
a conversation, right, and so you have all this mobilizing energy your
body. But for most of us, we're just sitting at a laptop,
and so that's when that starts to become overwhelming and there's anxiety, and then
we start the frantic doing you know, you start cleaning, you start organizing,
you start going through emails, whatever, like your thing is, but
it's coming from the fact that you have too much energy in your body and
nowhere for that energy to go, and it's coming out as anxiety. So
in those moments I encourage my clients like, notice that. Notice that there's
too much energy in your body, Notice the frantic doing, and get up
and move that energy physically out of your body. Your body wants to fight
something. As silly as that might sound, our bodies are still relatively primitive,
and so the best thing you can do is get up, jump,
shake, dance, go for a quick walk, but intentionally move energy out
of your body before trying to come back and do anything strategic because by moving
that energy, you're moving to a more regulated state. And then once you're
in that delated state, your executive functioning, the prefrontal cortex turns back on,
and then you could come back and be like, Okay, let me
write out a to do list, Let me think what is my goal here,
which actions are aligned with the goal? And you could have that like
broader vision, But in that moment that is actually not accessible to you,
no matter how hard you try that part of your brain is just offline.
And that's so interesting because it's such a message that's drilled into us, like
you got to hustle hot. If you're not hustling hot, you don't want
it badly enough. Like all of that, we hear it over and over
and over again. And then I think that also creates this shame of oh,
I'm not doing enough. I should be doing more. What are your
thoughts on that? Oh, my gosh, I have so many thoughts on
this. I completely I completely understand the struggle. You know, like I
grew up, I moved to California. Now I grew up in New York,
And honestly, part of the reason I had to leave New York because
that it is the land of that that like constant hustle. If you're not
doing something, you're not doing anything, you know. And honestly, my
take on that is just how inefficient that actually is. When you understand how
the nervous system works and how the brain works, that is incredibly inefficient.
You know, there's just depreciating returns all the time. If you're constantly running
on empty, if you're constantly trying to do from a disregulated place, it's
taking you a lot of energy to produce very little results. And if we
just spent more of that energy on regulating ourselves, on taking care of ourselves,
which you know, yeah, includes a lot of the basics, you
know, eating well, sleeping, getting rest, connection, all these things
that I think sometimes I don't know, for me, at least early on
in my business just went out the window, Like even being a holistic health
coach. I'm like, well, how else do you run a business?
Like I just don't have time for anything, right because I was disregulated.
And so I think making time for those things will actually make you so much
more efficient in the remaining time that you have and will make your business so
much more fulfilling. Not only more efficient and successful, but it will also
make it so much more fulfilling, which makes it so much easier for you
to keep going through the rough times. Yeah, it's more sustainable, right,
because you're not going to burn out. Yeah, Oh I love that.
So it's a sustainability, Like that's exactly the word, because I think,
like the approach that so many people have is like they do go hard
and then they burn out. They'll give it one hundred and fifty percent,
but you can't give one hundred and fifty percent every single day without something else
falling apart, like the wheels literally falling off that and that's exactly it.
And I think, you know, then you get into those cycles of you
hustle and then you burn out, and now you feel like you lose progress
and you take ten steps back, and now you have to hustle even harder
because you feel like you have to make up or what was lost. And
it's just like this endless cycle versus prioritizing, taking care of yourself, going
at a sustainable piece and being more intentional with the direction that you're moving.
It works so much better. But I think the nervous system getting disregulated was
what gets in the way. Like this sounds so logical now, but when
you're in that state that we were just talking about, this all goes out
the window and you're like, I just need to do whatever. And that's
where I think it becomes a problem. You don't call that out for what
it is, just regulation and you just think, no, this is just
how you run a business. Yeah, And I think sometimes we can get
into I know my listeners get into this thought of, oh, well,
the reason I'm not where I want to be in my business is because I'm
not doing enough or I'm doing the wrong things. And I really like your
take on how it can be your nervous system that's actually capping your success.
It's not that you need to be doing all things. What are some of
the signs that somebody's nervous system is the thing that's keeping them stuck where they
are? Yeah, So, honestly, the signs will be kind of spread
out in all categories, and that there will be signs that are physical,
So a lot of physical ailments like we mentioned before, There will be mental,
there will be emotional, there will be more spiritual, more in terms
of like how you relate to yourself. But honestly, I think the one
of the biggest things that we could be on the lookout for is honestly how
we're speaking to ourselves. Right. I think it's a lot of the times
like a tellhale sign of where our nervous system is at. And so when
we're in a dysregulated state, our thoughts will mirror that kind of like And
I keep using these analogies because I think it's helpful for people to visualize it.
This way. But like if you were running from a tiger in that
same analogy I used before, it wouldn't make sense for you to have a
lot of positive thoughts, right. You wouldn't be like, Oh, everything's
going to be great, I'm so lucky, I'm so grateful. You'd be
like, run faster. What's wrong with you? Go faster? Right?
And so when we're disregulated, our thoughts reflect the state, our story about
ourselves, about the world, and specifically about our business. It's going to
be a reflection of our state. So if we're disregulated and we're in that
you know you're not doing enough sympathetic state that I mentioned, the story is
going to be you should be doing more, it's never enough, You're not
good enough. Why do you think you should rest? Right, It's going
to be very much like you should do more and you're not good enough,
right, and everyone's out to get you and no one's on your side kind
of feeling. And then if you're in that shut down state of immobilization,
the stories like this will never work out. It's never going to happen.
Why even bother? Right? And I always encourage people to start looking at
their thoughts and seeing like those kind of thoughts are reflection of your state,
because if you're in that regulated state, it's not that suddenly everything is going
to be amazing and perfect, but there's a sense of possibility, there's an
ability to think long term, there is a sense of aid, there's a
sense of Okay, this is hard, but maybe I need to make a
plan. I could reach for support, I can get tools that can get
resources. When that disappears, we know we're getting disregulated. And when we're
disregulated, the chances of us figuring out the next step disappear. They're just
they're just not you know, they're not there. So I would say that's
a major one of like noticing those thoughts and remembering their reflection of your state.
And if it feels hard to access you know, long term thinking and
hope and resources, it probably means you're disregulated in that moment. Hmmm,
that makes so much sense. All right, Masha, I'm gonna wrap up
with one question that I ask all of my guests, and that is,
when was the last time that you took imperfect action and what happened as a
result. Oh, what a good question. I love to do that.
I have to think about that I really sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe
I should tell the guests going to Awesome this before the interview, but then
I'm like, no, I actually like giving it to you and then you
have to think of it on the spot. Yeah, you know, I
actually do remember the last time because it was majorly triggering for my nervous system
because the perfectioniste me totally came out. But I would say the last time
I took imperfect action was actually with creating my group program. So the group
program that I have going now was definitely the result of imperfect action. I
think for the longest time, I've put off creating a group program because I
was like, well, I don't know the exact thing I'm going to teach,
and I don't know how I'm going to cover everything, And I kept
putting it off and kept putting it off, and eventually my business coach is
like, you got you gotta practice what you preach, like that's your perfectionism
and you have to take imperfect action. And creating that whole program I think
has been a process and like really testing me to take consistent imperfect action,
and it's been It's been really cool and really rewarding because it's also a me
to be a little bit more flexible and a little bit more open and a
little bit more like, let's do this training and see how it's received and
then let's adjust, versus thinking that I have to have like this perfect thing
that I might have been working on for like two years in secret, and
then releasing it without having gotten any feedback from anyone, right, and then
probably expecting some kind of great result. Meaning meanwhile I probably would have needed
to tweak it many times before getting any results. So ultimately, I actually
think I got way better results doing it this way, but it definitely required
so much imperfect oh so much. And like any kind of creating, any
kind of program, course, like any of that, I always say,
like, you're going to help so many more people if you get it out
there imperfectly, then if you're just sitting on the idea like waiting for it
to be perfect before you put it out there into the world. So I'm
so glad that you shared that one. Where can our listeners go and find
more about you? Where can they connect with you if they want to learn
a little bit more? Yeah, so they could find me the best ways
on Instagram On Instagram I'm Marsha K. M A s h a kay.
I am on TikTok, but I'm not as active there. I'm coach Marsha
K. And they could definitely check out my website marshak dot com where they
could find my options for working with me. Amazing. Thank you so much
for sharing all of this, Like this has been I've learned so much.
I know whoever is listening to this episode right now has been writing pages and
pages of notes because I'm going to go and listen to this again and like
scribble down a million things. So thank you so much for sharing this with
us. Thank you so much for having me. I just I so enjoyed
our conversation. I love talking about this. Thank you so much. All
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