1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,240 When there's really big growth, we expect that to feel amazing, but to 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:11,080 our nervous systems, it actually feels very unsafe because if growth happens too fast, 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,039 we almost don't have the capacity to hold all of it. And so 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,480 because it feels like way more than we could hold, the way our nervous 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,000 system tries to protect us is kind of by what feels like sabotage of like 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,719 this is too much, do less, and it's almost like it does it 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,640 holds us back. We start doing less, we start making less money, 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,439 but not because your nervous system doesn't want you to grow. It's just it 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,079 couldn't hold as much as you were achieving, which is why like very fast 10 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:42,159 growth could be a little dangerous. Welcome to imperfect Action. I'm Steph Taylor. 11 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:45,799 The years, I read all the books, downloaded all the freebies, 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,359 and did all the courses, but it wasn't until I started taking imperfect action 13 00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:56,000 that my business had its first million dollar bare. Imperfect action is about doing 14 00:00:56,039 --> 00:01:02,320 things before you're ready, prioritizing consistent action over perfect action, and moving forward 15 00:01:02,679 --> 00:01:06,519 even when you're not sure you're doing it right. On this show, you 16 00:01:06,519 --> 00:01:11,480 can expect mindset advice, actionable marketing tips and strategies to build a business that 17 00:01:11,599 --> 00:01:17,439 brings you more profit, more freedom, and even more joy. Are you 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,879 on the list to get my daily businesses? Every day I'll send you a 19 00:01:19,879 --> 00:01:25,159 bite sized prompt designed to help you grow your business in a more intentional way. 20 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,239 Sign up at Stephtaylor dot co, forward slash DBB, or at the 21 00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:34,439 link in the show notes. Hey, welcome back to My Perfect Action. 22 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:38,280 This is episode seven hundred and twenty three. In a day, I'm bringing 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:44,200 in a guest to chat about a couple of the things that I know are 24 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,560 holding you back from growing your business, keeping you stuck at the level that 25 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,079 you are at. And that might look like procrastination, it might be overworking. 26 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:59,560 It might be these behaviors that we tend to refer to as self sabotaging 27 00:01:59,599 --> 00:02:05,239 behavior. And today's guest, Marsha Kay, is a nervous system and breathwork 28 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,080 coach. Her big I guest secret source is how you can use that nervous 29 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,319 system regulation to break through the plateaus in your business, to get yourself unstuck, 30 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:22,120 to overcome the procrastination, the overworking, all of the things the busy 31 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:27,439 that keeps us at the level we are at in our businesses. Now, 32 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:34,400 without further ado, let's jump into the chat with Marsha. Marsha, welcome 33 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,639 to Imperfect Action. I'm so excited to have you here. And as I 34 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:43,960 was saying before we hit record, I feel like I've already learnt a lot 35 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:49,719 from you, not so much in a business context, but especially around like 36 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:54,439 all this nervous system regulation that you really are an expert in. And I 37 00:02:54,479 --> 00:03:00,199 want to kick this interview off by asking you how did you get into a 38 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,400 system regulation because it's not really something that when you're a kid, You're like, 39 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,199 when I grow up, I want to be a nervous system coach and 40 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,759 breath walk coach one percent. So first of all, I'm so excited to 41 00:03:09,759 --> 00:03:13,560 be here. I'm so honored to be here. I feel like your content 42 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,639 is just so relevant to where I was a few years ago, and you 43 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,759 know a lot of things honest I started following you are still relevant now. 44 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,719 So I'm just so excited to be chatting with you. But You're absolutely right. 45 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,199 I don't think anyone sets out to be a nervous system and breathwork coach. 46 00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:32,240 And it's kind of interesting. I came here in a very roundabout way 47 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,199 to be honest with you. My background is actually not in this at all. 48 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,639 My background is an actuarial science and economics. So that's where I started 49 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:45,560 my career. I pretty much would say it's one to eighty degree difference from 50 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:49,080 where I am right now. So that's where I started my career. I 51 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,840 was kind of like a typical overachiever, just like always doing the right thing, 52 00:03:52,919 --> 00:03:55,439 and that's felt like a very stable career choice that felt like the right 53 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:59,719 career choice. I was good in math, like just seemed like the obvious 54 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,560 choice. And then two years into that, I was so miserable. I 55 00:04:02,599 --> 00:04:05,639 was good at taking the math exams because I loved math, but like there 56 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,960 was just lack of fulfillment, and so I kind of had my own quarter 57 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,560 life crisis. And I didn't really know what other skills or gifts or talents 58 00:04:14,599 --> 00:04:15,600 I had at that point. So I'm like, Okay, I can't change 59 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,240 jobs, but I could just focus on myself, right, I could just 60 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,399 find ways to make myself feel better in terms of focusing on my physical health. 61 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,720 And you know I did that. I started eating differently and exercise. 62 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:29,519 I'm like, okay, now mental health and you know, I started learning 63 00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:31,800 about like reframing, okay, emotional health, and so I kind of went 64 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:38,240 down this rabbit hole of healing and self improvement and taking courses and getting certified 65 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,519 truly just for myself, just to understand if I can't change jobs, how 66 00:04:42,519 --> 00:04:46,519 can I get myself to feel better? And somewhere down the lines, a 67 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,959 few years into that, I was like, wait, I really love doing 68 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:55,120 this. I've actually tutored since early high school, so I always loved teaching, 69 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,360 and I was like, maybe I could help other people with their journey. 70 00:04:58,399 --> 00:05:00,720 I kind of have a unique perspective, and so that kind of got 71 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,680 me into coaching. But I started out as a holistic health coach. I 72 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,240 was just really interested in the mind, the body, the connection between the 73 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,439 two, and so that's what I started doing. And then at some point 74 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,399 I had to leave my corporate job start my business. And then that's when 75 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:18,000 it got really hard because it's like, Okay, you have the information, 76 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,720 you have the desire, you know. I thought I set myself up well, 77 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,319 but it was just so overwhelming, and so I started looking for more 78 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,439 tools that were like a little more business orient or just like whatever I can 79 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,759 grasp to and somewhere down the line, I took a workshop around the nervous 80 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,879 system, and when I learned about it, I'm like, Oh, that's 81 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:41,560 what's happening right now. I'm getting super dysregulated because there's just such a lack 82 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,519 of stability right. All the things that I use to comfort myself, as 83 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,839 like coping mechanisms, my overachieving, my job success, none of that is 84 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:53,319 accessible to me. Kind of feel like I'm making mistakes and failing left and 85 00:05:53,399 --> 00:05:57,279 right. Was super triggering. And so that's when I learned about the nervous 86 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,560 system, and I basically just started applying it to myself to help me kind 87 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,000 of move forward in my coaching business. And then as I started working with 88 00:06:04,079 --> 00:06:08,639 clients over and over, I would be telling them what to do, and 89 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,639 a lot of the times they knew what to do, but they're like, 90 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,600 I can't do it, what's wrong with me? And I would have to 91 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,120 explain, Oh, that's your nervous system, right, Like I can completely 92 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,439 explain that. And I just realized so much of my coaching is really about 93 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:21,519 that. That has to be the foundation. A lot of us who know 94 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,079 the right things to do, we just don't know how to do them. 95 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,720 Because our nervous system gets in the way. Mmmm. Oh, there is 96 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,000 so much to unpack in that, but I think I want to start with 97 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:38,000 how does your nervous system? What are some of the ways that your nervous 98 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,639 system can impact how you show up in your business? Oh, my gosh, 99 00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:46,720 where to begin? It could honestly impact every area of how you show 100 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,800 up in your business, truly, because if you think about it, you 101 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,160 know we're talking about your nervous system. Your nervous system has these three states 102 00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:57,399 without going into detail. One state is a state of safety, where you 103 00:06:57,439 --> 00:07:01,680 feel relatively safe, and then there's two states of feeling dysregulated, where your 104 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,319 nervous system doesn't believe you are safe. And so it acts in all these 105 00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:09,720 different ways. And the cool thing, kind of the scary thing, is 106 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:15,040 that when it feels unsafe, every system of your body mobilizes, right, 107 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,120 So your vision changes, your saliva changes, your digestion changes, the way 108 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:24,399 your brain works changes, muscle flow, breath, heart, you name it, 109 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:27,920 it all changes, right, And so the way this could show up 110 00:07:27,959 --> 00:07:30,720 in your business, like, there's countless ways, but for some people you 111 00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:36,079 become more busy, it feels like it's constantly not enough, I constantly need 112 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,399 to be doing more, constantly filling up your schedule, constantly feeling like I 113 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:44,720 need to be shaming and blaming myself or I need to be blaming and shaming 114 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,079 other people. Right, So that's we call this the sympathetic state, and 115 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,879 that's kind of like the fight or flight response, right, And really it's 116 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,360 just your nervous systems trying to keep you safe by mobilizing it. It's doing 117 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,800 all of these things. But the problem is in the state your prefrontal cortex, 118 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,319 which is the part of your brain just responsible for executive functioning, so 119 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,240 all the functioning you need to run your business, you know, long term 120 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:11,639 decision making, creativity, planning, strategizing. It starts to go dark, 121 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:16,959 and so you start doing, but you're doing in random directions, you know. 122 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,759 So you're you're very, very busy, and you're doing a lot, 123 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,319 and you're pointing fingers at yourself or others, but there's no long term vision 124 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:26,399 there. Really, you lose sight of that. So that's kind of like 125 00:08:26,519 --> 00:08:30,720 one category, and there's a lot in there that we could break down into 126 00:08:30,759 --> 00:08:33,120 details. And then there's the other group where people who just shut down, 127 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:39,639 right, and that's your nervous system protecting by immobilizing right. So one way 128 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:43,600 it's staying safe by taking action, and another way tries to stay safe by 129 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:46,480 taking no action, kind of like playing dead right. And so this could 130 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,840 look a lot like procrastination. It could look like perfectionism, like if it's 131 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,320 not perfect, I can't really put it out. It could look like just 132 00:08:54,399 --> 00:08:58,600 disconnection, just disassociating, numbing, not doing anything, suddenly feeling like I'm 133 00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:03,600 so late, what's wrong with me? Getting really harder on yourself, So 134 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,559 just like shaming yourself of before, you're just being harder on yourself to motivate 135 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,720 yourself. Here, you're just kind of like constantly putting yourself down, feeling 136 00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:16,000 really hopeless. And the interesting thing is like we go into these states based 137 00:09:16,039 --> 00:09:20,960 on how our nervous system interprets our environment. So there might not really be 138 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:24,720 anything happening in your outside world in your office, but your nervous system could 139 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:30,000 be going into a different state, and that state puts this different filter on 140 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:35,279 the world. So it's almost like reality becomes incredibly distorted, meaning your business 141 00:09:35,639 --> 00:09:39,720 becomes incredibly distorted. The way you see your business becomes incredibly distorted. M 142 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,559 Oh, that makes so much sense. And as you are talking about those 143 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:48,120 two states, I can see myself in past experiences in both of those different 144 00:09:48,159 --> 00:09:52,399 states. I'm really curious, like in your experience, what can trigger the 145 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:58,480 two different states? And is it a case of different triggers would trigger you 146 00:09:58,519 --> 00:10:03,600 to mobilize versus or is it like a person by person kind of basis. 147 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:07,320 Yeah, that's a really great question. That's a really good question. So 148 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,759 there's like kind of two parts to this question, right, Like the first 149 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,120 part is there are some things that we all have in common that trigger our 150 00:10:15,159 --> 00:10:20,279 nervous systems, right, So specifically, our nervous systems interpret change, uncertainty, 151 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:26,799 and isolation as danger across the board. And I find that really fascinating. 152 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:28,480 And I wonder if this was your experience too, or the people that 153 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:33,240 you work with, Like when I started working for myself, all three change, 154 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,799 uncertainty, and isolation, Like suddenly I'm barely seeing anybody, I'm just 155 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,639 alone in my apartment. Suddenly there's complete unstartin I was never had instability and 156 00:10:41,759 --> 00:10:46,440 income or anything like that. I knew exactly what I wanted to do up 157 00:10:46,519 --> 00:10:50,320 until that point, and just constant change, like I think I'm going to 158 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,919 do this and then I have to do something else. So those things for 159 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,480 me were just incredibly triggering, but they're like across the board. Oh yes, 160 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,399 I think about the big like the moment where my business grew so quickly 161 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,200 it felt like it was overnight. There was a huge amount of change. 162 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,480 It happened right at the start of the pandemic, so there was a lot 163 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:16,279 of uncertainty, and I lived by myself at the time as we were going 164 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,559 into lockdown. So the isolation that was like the triple the triple whammy, 165 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,200 the triple whammy. What was that like for you? Did you feel like 166 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,960 you were shutting down or did you feel like you were just getting like really 167 00:11:26,039 --> 00:11:31,320 busy. It was a shutdown, like I remember so clearly. I was 168 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,360 like, my business is taking off. I know what I need to do, 169 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:37,679 but I'm sitting here and I literally cannot do anything. That was what 170 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,279 it felt like. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and that same like when 171 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:45,759 I started my business. That's exactly what it felt like. And I don't 172 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:48,120 know about for you, but for me, that was just a very unfamiliar 173 00:11:48,159 --> 00:11:50,799 feeling because before I was like I saw myself as like kind of like a 174 00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:54,120 doer, like an overachiever, like just do do do and that was the 175 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,200 first time, like, oh, I can't do anything and I don't know 176 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,919 what it is. And so that makes a lot of sense. And so 177 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,879 there's those things, right, and that's for everyone across the board, which 178 00:12:03,919 --> 00:12:07,200 is why I think, like owning your own business is so triggering. But 179 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:13,759 then there's also triggers that are individual to you, right, Like I always 180 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:18,080 say that our nervous system is customized to our lived experience. So for example, 181 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,919 if we were out in the wild and you were walking through the wild 182 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,639 and there was a tiger and you first heard the bushes kind of rustle, 183 00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:28,759 and then the tiger jumped out right, your nervous system would remember anytime you 184 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,759 hear that sound of the bushes start running, right, and that's how it 185 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:35,480 would keep you safe in the future, so you wouldn't die. And that's 186 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,960 still true. So to this day, you know, it could be like 187 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,360 ten years later, you could have been in the middle of Manhattan. I 188 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,960 know, you heard something in the bushes and you would start running. It 189 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,879 wouldn't logically make sense, but your nervous system was wired to keep you safe, 190 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:52,679 right, And so that's still true. So if we've had certain experiences 191 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:58,279 in our childhood, growing up with other people around ownership, anything, if 192 00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:01,799 we had certain painful experiences, our nervous system remembers, and then anytime in 193 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,679 the future anything looks kind of sort of familiar, feels kind of sort of 194 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:11,519 familiar to that our nervous systems will respond in the way we responded then, 195 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,480 even though it's not really appropriate now, right, it's kind of like it 196 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,399 projects the past onto the present. And I think, like with your own 197 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:24,080 business, what often happens, it's so personal that your nervous system is projecting 198 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:28,279 things that happen with your parents, with caregivers, with school, with friends 199 00:13:28,759 --> 00:13:31,559 onto your business, even though that your business is not those people. But 200 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:39,080 it feels like it is m oh sense that makes so much sense. Like, 201 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,000 as you're talking, my brain's just like connecting all of these different dots. 202 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,799 So, I mean we talked about like surface level, you're either shutting 203 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,639 down or you're mobilizing. What are some other signs that you might not be 204 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:58,080 regulated? Yeah, so let's see. So like again, we can kind 205 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:03,000 of think about it in the two categories, right, I think one big 206 00:14:03,039 --> 00:14:07,080 one. Maybe this feels obvious, Maybe it isn't it's very intense emotional responses. 207 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,440 Right. So when stressor has happened, if it feels like very intense, 208 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,080 like the world is ending, like this is everything, Like you get 209 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,879 this like tunnel vision feeling, that's a sign that you're getting dysregulated. Right. 210 00:14:20,919 --> 00:14:26,440 Sometimes it could feel like our reactions are disproportionate and we can't quite tell 211 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,559 why. That's a sign that there's some dysregulation happening, that your nervous system 212 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,080 is thinking what's happening now is actually what happened in the past, and there's 213 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,759 way more danger than is actually present. Right. It could also manifests like 214 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:43,919 physical sensations. I think people don't realize that when we get disregulated, our 215 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:48,120 immune system shuts down, our digestion starts to shut down, our reproductive organs 216 00:14:48,159 --> 00:14:54,559 start to shut down. So that's another sign of like chronic dysregulation. Right. 217 00:14:54,799 --> 00:14:58,240 You know a lot of people have gut issues. There's often a connection 218 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,840 there, you know, if you're constantly like I'll have clients who tend to 219 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,480 like hustle and then burn out and they will notice they will get sick at 220 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,000 the end of like that hustle period, right, And it's like that's very 221 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:15,519 connected because it's connected to your immune system, feeling you know, triggered by 222 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,159 other people, sometimes feeling like the world is against you, or you know, 223 00:15:20,519 --> 00:15:22,799 taking things a little bit more personally. That also could be a sign 224 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:28,879 of disregulation, because when we're disregulated, we actually are not able to connect. 225 00:15:28,159 --> 00:15:31,519 We go into a state of protection, which is the opposite of connection, 226 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:37,960 and so feeling connected to others becomes really hard, and you know, 227 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:45,480 interacting with others becomes more difficult. Perfectionism like it's an easy one, but 228 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:48,399 I think sometimes people think, oh, that's a personality trait, like I'm 229 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,720 just a perfectionist. It's like, no, that's actually a sign of disregulation. 230 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:56,559 Is it always a sign of disregulation or like because I can imagine somebody's 231 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,559 listening to this and they're like no, But like, for me, it 232 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:04,039 really is just a personality trade. You know, it's a tough one. 233 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,480 I would argue that it is a sign of dysregulation, and maybe it's a 234 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:14,360 little more complicated in that it's a trauma response. Right. So perfectionism across 235 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,320 the board is how you learn to keep yourself safe. Probably at some point 236 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,600 you didn't feel good enough and making sure everything around you is perfect. Making 237 00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:27,679 sure you're perfect, making sure you show up perfectly became a way to kind 238 00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:33,320 of cover up those feelings of shame, to protect yourself, right, And 239 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:37,080 so now as you're going through life or like you're moving through your business and 240 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,759 things are getting really stressful, that's the protective mechanism that comes up. It's 241 00:16:41,799 --> 00:16:42,679 like, oh, that worked for us in the past, we better do 242 00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:48,279 that now. And so kind of also thinking, I think the people who 243 00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:52,080 would argue no, no, it's a personality trait sometimes confuse healthy striving and 244 00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:59,960 perfectionism. Yeah, okay, and what about procrastination because I know this one, 245 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,119 and also you know I'm a procrastinator, Like that can be a personality 246 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:10,119 trait as well. Is that similar to perfectionism in this case? Yes, 247 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,960 very similar. And I think procrastination is an interesting one because I think with 248 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:18,079 procrastination, they're just so much shame. Right. So when we make that 249 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,799 a part of our identity, you know, perfectionists, there could be like 250 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:23,559 a little bit of like a humble brag to it, right, It's like, 251 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,279 oh, my worst quality is I'm a perfectionist. I do things really 252 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:30,039 really well, right, And so it's not the best, but there's a 253 00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:34,680 little bit of like pride associated with it sometimes, right, But procrastination there's 254 00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:37,839 usually a lot of shame of like I'm just not someone who can follow through 255 00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:41,640 on things. I'm just not someone who's capable of that, And none of 256 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:48,440 that is actually true. So what procrastination is actually is your nervous system is 257 00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:52,799 kind of doing the math, and that thing that you're procrastinating is probably one 258 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,640 that's to some degree painful. Maybe when you're doing it, you kind of 259 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,039 feel like a failure, Maybe it's really hard for you. Maybe it forces 260 00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:04,839 you to face certain insecurities you have, right, and so your nervous systems 261 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,279 like, I don't want to do that that hurts me, And so procrastination 262 00:18:08,519 --> 00:18:15,000 is your nervous system's way of keeping you away from the pain, right, 263 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:18,400 because your nervous system is just concerned with the short term, and so in 264 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,559 the short term, if it could just put off that thing, then it's 265 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,640 keeping you safe. It's keeping you away from that discomfort. And so that's 266 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,400 actually all that it is. And so it's definitely not a personality trait. 267 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,960 It's very much how you keep yourself safe, because I can bet you're not 268 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:40,039 procrastinating the things that feel really easy to you. You're procrastinating the things that 269 00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:42,440 are hard to challenge you, that make you feel maybe a little insecure, 270 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,079 and that's actually your nervous system just trying to keep you safe. Yeah, 271 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:53,440 that resonates so much, like as somebody who does tend to procrastinate a lot. 272 00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:56,400 As you're saying that, I'm like, Yeah, the things that I 273 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:02,240 procrastinate all the things that feel really uncomfortable or feel difficult to start, or 274 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,319 I feel a little bit unclear or uncertain because I don't know what I need 275 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,039 to do to succeed in that. So that really, Yeah, that makes 276 00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:12,799 so much sense. I'm curious to know, Like, what are some of 277 00:19:12,839 --> 00:19:19,200 the mistakes that you see other business owners making that keep them in this trap 278 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:26,799 of being dysregulated? Who that's a good question. Let me think about that. 279 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:30,799 I mean, I guess the first one that comes to mind is the 280 00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:33,880 business, Right, I would say that's a major one. And it's kind 281 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,519 of like a chicken or the egg situation. Right, is it the busyness 282 00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:42,440 that creates the dysregulation or did the dysregulation create the busyness? And it's often 283 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,680 some combination, Right, So, often you'll use busyness to like make yourself 284 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,200 feel productive, like I just want to check things off my to do list. 285 00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:52,640 I just need to fill up my time, fill up my day. 286 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,200 But then that leads you to a not having time to kind of think more 287 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,319 strategically and do things that really matter, and then it leads you to feeling 288 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:06,960 really burnt out, and then that burnout creates more dysregulation. Right, So 289 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,839 I think, like that's one really big thing. I think another thing that 290 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,279 often, you know, I don't know if this is something business owners are 291 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,880 doing. I don't think this is wrong, but I think this is something 292 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,720 that creates dysregulation for a lot of people. And I think it's we really 293 00:20:22,759 --> 00:20:26,319 need to teach business owners to regulate through this. It's the lack of stability 294 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:30,920 in their businesses. Right. In general, if you're becoming a business owner, 295 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:36,759 there's a lot less stability, right, And I think we don't consider 296 00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:40,279 how disregulating that could be, and so we're not thinking about that. We're 297 00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:42,559 not thinking, Okay, how do I create stability? How do I make 298 00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:45,759 myself feel safe? And we're kind of like, oh, I'll just figure 299 00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:48,440 it out, and to some degree that is good. You kind of just 300 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,720 got to throw yourself in sometimes start taking action. But you need to kind 301 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,640 of be working with your nervous system, not just ignoring it and being like, 302 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,720 no, it will get better once I'm making more money or something like 303 00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:03,680 that. So it's almost like not accounting for the fact that your business will 304 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:10,119 disregulate you, and you almost need to be prepared for that and start taking 305 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,319 action in preparation for that. Like that almost needs, in my opinion, 306 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,200 needs to be like a foundational component of creating a business and what kind of 307 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:25,240 action can we take to prepare for that. So I think the first part 308 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,559 is just being aware of what your nervous system is, what these states are, 309 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:33,079 and starting to build out a toolkit for what are the things that give 310 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,559 safety to your nervous system, What are the tools that you can use? 311 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,039 And so it's the toolkit. So like building the understanding the nervous system, 312 00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:45,039 building out a toolkit understanding like when I get disregulated, what do I do? 313 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,880 How do I know the differences between the sympathetic state versus that shut down 314 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,039 dorsal state, right because I would take different steps in each one. So 315 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,000 kind of like that understanding and starting to build out that toolkit, I think 316 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,359 is one piece. Second piece I think is kind of like, what are 317 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,160 the routines and daily actions that I take to create some structure and stability for 318 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,160 myself? So maybe finances aren't going to be stable, but we can create 319 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,799 stability through the way we structure our day. We can create stability maybe by 320 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,880 using a tool like breathwork or journaling, whatever resonates with you and is appropriate 321 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,240 to your nervous system as something we do every day, and having routines and 322 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,920 rituals around them. So I think that's a really big one. Of course, 323 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,559 community and connection that's a huge one for our nervous systems as well. 324 00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:37,680 So yeah, I would say those kind of two separate categories the things you 325 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:45,160 do daily to create stability and structure, which includes community and routines and rituals, 326 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,559 and then kind of building out a toolkit for when your nervous system does 327 00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:53,680 get a little dysregulated. What are the tools you have, what are the 328 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,240 tools that work? How do you kind of make it easy for yourself to 329 00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:02,079 reach for something versus getting just regulated and when it feels like the world is 330 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,839 on fire, expecting yourself to like go and find or learn some kind of 331 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,359 tool, which is just it's not accessible, right, it's almost like too 332 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,720 late at that point. M. But I'm also thinking, like, when 333 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:21,160 I've been in those kinds of moments where it feels like everything's you know, 334 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,960 either I just want to like hide and do nothing or I want to do 335 00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:29,079 everything. It's easy when you're not in those moments to be like, oh, 336 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,519 yeah, the next time that happens, I will get my journal out 337 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:34,599 and I'll journal my way through it. But when you're in that moment, 338 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,240 like it doesn't feel possible, or you don't think about it, or you 339 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,720 don't catch yourself. Do you have any tips on how you can start to 340 00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:48,799 notice those moments and change the way you react to them. Yes? Absolutely, 341 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,079 So again to me, it comes down to one, can you start 342 00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:57,359 making time outside of those moments to start to understand your nervous system a little 343 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,279 bit, maybe start using those So let's say you say, like, I 344 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:03,960 want a journal next time I'm really stressed, right, but you never journal 345 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,680 outside of that To expect yourself to lean towards that, it's going to be 346 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,319 impossible. So maybe it's creating a ritual around that when you are feeling relatively 347 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,119 regulated, something you do every day, so just kind of like the intention 348 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:21,759 is there, but then it's also learning to kind of like practicing mindfulness, 349 00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:26,279 really learning to befriend yourself and your nervous system, and so in those moments 350 00:24:26,319 --> 00:24:30,599 of dysregulation, noticing them and just getting curious about them, kind of like 351 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,680 the way a scientist would. And I say that very intentionally because I think 352 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,240 what a lot of us do when we're in that moment is we shame ourselves. 353 00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:41,440 We're like, oh, I can't believe I'm here. I can't you 354 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,079 know, I'm never going to get out of this? What's wrong with me? 355 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:45,920 I shouldn't be here? What do I do to get out? And 356 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:51,000 there's like this panic to get out of it instead of just approaching it from 357 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:55,559 a more neutral like, let me observe what does this feel like in my 358 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,480 body? What are my behaviors like? Again, just like imagining you are 359 00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:04,759 a sign, just observing yourself in a laboratory and getting genuinely curious about what 360 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:11,720 is going on here, And that mindfulness is kind of step one to being 361 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,559 like, Okay, now that I'm observing it, what actions do I want 362 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,680 to take? And honestly, it takes a little bit of like that part 363 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:23,799 sounds so easy in theory, but it actually takes so much practice and repetition 364 00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:30,799 to consistently practice that mindfulness and become the observer, and to not do that 365 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,440 from a place of shame, which is what most of us do, right, 366 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:40,079 We like shame ourselves when we're in it, or we just completely ignore 367 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,799 it and we're like, whatever it is, what it is, this is 368 00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:45,519 just my personality. There's no better way, right, and we kint to 369 00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:49,039 just allow those behaviors to just keep happening over and over and over again. 370 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,559 And in that way, it starts to feel like we're sabotaging ourselves. Like 371 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:56,319 I hate that word because I actually think it's self protection. But it starts 372 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,160 to feel like we are sabotaging ourselves. Oh, Like, for sure, 373 00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:03,880 that's something whenever I talk to my audience, whenever I talk to my students 374 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,480 and my courses, that's something that comes up over and over again. It's 375 00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:12,160 like, why am I self sabotaging? Why am I procrastinating this thing that 376 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,519 I know I need to do because it's going to move my business forward? 377 00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:18,880 And there is so much shame around that, And then they end up feeling 378 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:25,279 really even worse about themselves. Yes, exactly, And you're right, it's 379 00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:30,119 like that self sabotage and the shame we have around that is such a huge 380 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,240 part of this. And I guess, like a couple of things I would 381 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:38,160 say is it's not self sabotage, it's actually self protection. And I find 382 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,480 that to be like a helpful, very minor shift that we could make when 383 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,400 we're in those moments that your nervous system is not trying to ruin your day 384 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:52,160 or ruin your business, right, Your nervous system is concerned with keeping you 385 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,759 safe. It doesn't care about money, it doesn't care about growth, it 386 00:26:55,799 --> 00:27:00,359 doesn't even care about your health. It just cares about you surviving another moment, 387 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,920 you being okay in this exact moment. Right. So we're not sabotaging. 388 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:11,279 We're trying to protect ourselves, but maybe we're protecting ourselves in ways that 389 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:17,039 don't align with our business. Right, And in those moments, I really 390 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,599 encourage people to think about, you know, maybe my nervous system has a 391 00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:25,720 point here, not that I should quit my business altogether and stop, but 392 00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:30,640 maybe something here doesn't feel safe. Maybe it's kind of giving me a clue 393 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,759 that something here doesn't feel good to me. And instead of seeing my nervous 394 00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:37,880 system and myself as the enemy, which is like what we do when we 395 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,160 think like self sabotage, it's thinking about how is it actually an ally? 396 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,599 It's an ally that's trying to protect me, So what is it doing? 397 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,160 And how do I start to see that and work with it? Is that 398 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,400 always a sign though? That it's the like that you're on the wrong path. 399 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,720 Like let's say that you are pushing yourself to do something that feels scary 400 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,599 and you find yourself procrastinating it or not wanting to do the thing, and 401 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,680 you're like, oh, is this because it's a bad decision or is it 402 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,480 because I'm just it's unfamiliar? Like how do we know the difference between the 403 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,319 two? Yes, that's such a great question. The answer is no. 404 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,200 The short answer is absolutely no. But I completely understand what you're saying. 405 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,920 And like, one way I explain that is, you know, growth and 406 00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:32,640 safety are kind of opposing forces. Right, in order to grow, you 407 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,200 need to step out of your comfort zone. In order to stay safe, 408 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,720 you need to stay in your comfort zone. Yeah, right, And so 409 00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:44,799 your nervous system is kind of always battling against the part of you that wants 410 00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:48,359 to grow. And so you're absolutely right. When we start taking actions towards 411 00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:52,359 our dreams and goals, we're going to start self sabotaging. I think a 412 00:28:52,359 --> 00:28:53,799 lot of people think, oh, this must mean I'm on the wrong path, 413 00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:59,039 and it means no such thing, and like one of like my pet 414 00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:03,480 Peeves is kind of I think a lot in the self help space there is 415 00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:06,319 like this like, oh, if you know, if it's not yes, 416 00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:10,000 it's a no. And I could just not agree with that any less, 417 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,680 because the truth is, even the things that are meant for you and are 418 00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:18,640 right for you are going to feel very uncomfortable to your nervous system. And 419 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,319 to get back to your question, like, well would you do about this, 420 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,640 It's not that we need to change directions. It's more about thinking, 421 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,640 like, in this moment, how do I make this step a little less 422 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,319 scary? Right? My nervous system is basically telling me this thing that you're 423 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:37,920 doing feels too overwhelming. It's not the wrong thing, it just feels too 424 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,920 overwhelming. The step feels too big. And so that's actually why I love 425 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,319 the name of your podcast, because I think in those moments it's about taking 426 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:52,039 smaller steps that are imperfect. Yeah, right, So thinking about a how 427 00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:55,880 could I just in this moment, how do I can bring some safety to 428 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,240 my nervous system. There's amazing tools you can do. You can reach out 429 00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:02,599 for connection, you could reach out for support. Right, So how do 430 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,480 I bring safety? And if I do want to move towards you know that 431 00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:08,039 step that I originally set out for myself, can I make it a little 432 00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:11,519 smaller? Can I make it a little more imperfect? How do I make 433 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:18,519 it feel a little bit more doable to my nervous system? Mmmm? I 434 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,599 love that And it's such an interesting way. Like I wish I had known 435 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,200 this three years ago when my business grew so quickly. It's like I would 436 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,000 have realized that my it was just all my nervous system trying to keep me 437 00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:37,039 safe. It wasn't self sabotage, It wasn't anything to be ashamed of, 438 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:40,440 this shutting down, this not wanting to do the things that I knew I 439 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,799 needed to do. So thank you so much for sharing. And I know 440 00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:48,960 that's going to help my listeners big time, big time. And I will 441 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,359 say, if I could just add one thing to that of like Your example, 442 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,599 I think is a really interesting one, which is like when there's really 443 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,240 big growth, we expect that to feel amazing, but to our nervous systems, 444 00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:07,759 it actually feels very unsafe because if growth happens too fast, we almost 445 00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:11,559 don't have the capacity to hold all of it. And so because it feels 446 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:14,839 like way more than we could hold, the way our nervous system tries to 447 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,319 protect us is kind of by what feels like sabotage of like this is too 448 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,079 much do less, and it's almost like it does it holds us back. 449 00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:26,000 We start doing less, we start making less money, but not because your 450 00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:29,559 nervous system doesn't want you to grow. It's just it couldn't hold as much 451 00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:33,000 as you were achieving, which is why like very fast growth could be a 452 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:37,160 little dangerous. Yeah, that makes so much sense, And like I can 453 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,240 think even as you're saying that, I can think of times when I've quote 454 00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:48,319 unquote self sabotaged opportunities to speak at events or collaborate with somebody who was like 455 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:53,960 a dream collaboration because that felt really uncomfortable. So it's like not just like 456 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,319 I guess financial growth or like growth as how we typically define it in business 457 00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:05,440 exactly exactly, and like think about it, you know, all like the 458 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,519 growth. We think of stress as only the bad thing, but stress is 459 00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:12,400 also good things like opportunities are so stressful. There might be like amazing and 460 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,920 you might be so grateful for them, but they're stressful, right, And 461 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:21,359 so your nervous system, it's really kind of the part of you that decides 462 00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:23,160 how much stress you could handle. That's what it does. It decides how 463 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,559 much stress you could handle. And so if you haven't expanded your nervous system's 464 00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:31,759 capacity to handle more stress, but more stressful things are happening, your nervous 465 00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:35,519 system's like, well, that's not safe. Let's shut that down. And 466 00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:37,759 that is why we know we don't answer that email or like that thing that 467 00:32:37,799 --> 00:32:40,519 we've been dreaming about. We're like, I don't even want to look at 468 00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:45,279 it, like if you've ever had that experience, Oh, it's that Oh. 469 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:50,160 And I want to talk a little bit more about like the busyness and 470 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:52,920 that like sense of I need to be doing more. I need to be 471 00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:57,079 doing more, because I know this comes up a lot, especially in the 472 00:32:57,119 --> 00:33:00,359 early stages of business, where you constantly feel like you're not doing enough and 473 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,039 constantly feel like you have to be doing something like anything, and then like 474 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,880 what you said at the stop, but it's all random things. It's not 475 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:13,480 anything that's aligned with the vision. How do we get out of that cycle? 476 00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:20,839 Yeah? So there, you know, there's like a many ways to 477 00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:22,440 get out of it. But the one I teach people like on the most 478 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,160 basic level, and this might seem too easy, but I think it's the 479 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,240 It's where I always encourage people to start, right, and that is to 480 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:36,319 understand that when we're in that do more state, it's called the sympathetic So 481 00:33:36,359 --> 00:33:39,920 that's the kind of fight or flight state, right, And in the simplest 482 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,279 way, in that state, we have too much mobilizing energy. Your body 483 00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:47,640 wants to fight a tiger. It wants to fight, it wants to run. 484 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,480 That's what that state was created for. But there are no tigers. 485 00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:54,440 The tiger is your business, an email, a phone call, you know, 486 00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:00,200 a conversation, right, and so you have all this mobilizing energy your 487 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,720 body. But for most of us, we're just sitting at a laptop, 488 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:07,400 and so that's when that starts to become overwhelming and there's anxiety, and then 489 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,880 we start the frantic doing you know, you start cleaning, you start organizing, 490 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,360 you start going through emails, whatever, like your thing is, but 491 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,920 it's coming from the fact that you have too much energy in your body and 492 00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:22,440 nowhere for that energy to go, and it's coming out as anxiety. So 493 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:28,159 in those moments I encourage my clients like, notice that. Notice that there's 494 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:31,199 too much energy in your body, Notice the frantic doing, and get up 495 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,679 and move that energy physically out of your body. Your body wants to fight 496 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,480 something. As silly as that might sound, our bodies are still relatively primitive, 497 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,480 and so the best thing you can do is get up, jump, 498 00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:49,840 shake, dance, go for a quick walk, but intentionally move energy out 499 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,440 of your body before trying to come back and do anything strategic because by moving 500 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,519 that energy, you're moving to a more regulated state. And then once you're 501 00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:04,519 in that delated state, your executive functioning, the prefrontal cortex turns back on, 502 00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:07,760 and then you could come back and be like, Okay, let me 503 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,880 write out a to do list, Let me think what is my goal here, 504 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:14,239 which actions are aligned with the goal? And you could have that like 505 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,599 broader vision, But in that moment that is actually not accessible to you, 506 00:35:17,639 --> 00:35:22,199 no matter how hard you try that part of your brain is just offline. 507 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:29,119 And that's so interesting because it's such a message that's drilled into us, like 508 00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:30,920 you got to hustle hot. If you're not hustling hot, you don't want 509 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,639 it badly enough. Like all of that, we hear it over and over 510 00:35:35,679 --> 00:35:39,920 and over again. And then I think that also creates this shame of oh, 511 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,239 I'm not doing enough. I should be doing more. What are your 512 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,840 thoughts on that? Oh, my gosh, I have so many thoughts on 513 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,760 this. I completely I completely understand the struggle. You know, like I 514 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,719 grew up, I moved to California. Now I grew up in New York, 515 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,440 And honestly, part of the reason I had to leave New York because 516 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,159 that it is the land of that that like constant hustle. If you're not 517 00:36:04,199 --> 00:36:07,239 doing something, you're not doing anything, you know. And honestly, my 518 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,559 take on that is just how inefficient that actually is. When you understand how 519 00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:16,239 the nervous system works and how the brain works, that is incredibly inefficient. 520 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,639 You know, there's just depreciating returns all the time. If you're constantly running 521 00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:27,639 on empty, if you're constantly trying to do from a disregulated place, it's 522 00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:31,519 taking you a lot of energy to produce very little results. And if we 523 00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:37,320 just spent more of that energy on regulating ourselves, on taking care of ourselves, 524 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,119 which you know, yeah, includes a lot of the basics, you 525 00:36:40,159 --> 00:36:45,679 know, eating well, sleeping, getting rest, connection, all these things 526 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:47,159 that I think sometimes I don't know, for me, at least early on 527 00:36:47,199 --> 00:36:51,400 in my business just went out the window, Like even being a holistic health 528 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,760 coach. I'm like, well, how else do you run a business? 529 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,440 Like I just don't have time for anything, right because I was disregulated. 530 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,760 And so I think making time for those things will actually make you so much 531 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:08,239 more efficient in the remaining time that you have and will make your business so 532 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:14,320 much more fulfilling. Not only more efficient and successful, but it will also 533 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,000 make it so much more fulfilling, which makes it so much easier for you 534 00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:22,000 to keep going through the rough times. Yeah, it's more sustainable, right, 535 00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:25,800 because you're not going to burn out. Yeah, Oh I love that. 536 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,760 So it's a sustainability, Like that's exactly the word, because I think, 537 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,360 like the approach that so many people have is like they do go hard 538 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,320 and then they burn out. They'll give it one hundred and fifty percent, 539 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,800 but you can't give one hundred and fifty percent every single day without something else 540 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:49,119 falling apart, like the wheels literally falling off that and that's exactly it. 541 00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:51,639 And I think, you know, then you get into those cycles of you 542 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,920 hustle and then you burn out, and now you feel like you lose progress 543 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,000 and you take ten steps back, and now you have to hustle even harder 544 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,400 because you feel like you have to make up or what was lost. And 545 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:07,840 it's just like this endless cycle versus prioritizing, taking care of yourself, going 546 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:14,440 at a sustainable piece and being more intentional with the direction that you're moving. 547 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,639 It works so much better. But I think the nervous system getting disregulated was 548 00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:22,320 what gets in the way. Like this sounds so logical now, but when 549 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,519 you're in that state that we were just talking about, this all goes out 550 00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:30,559 the window and you're like, I just need to do whatever. And that's 551 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:32,360 where I think it becomes a problem. You don't call that out for what 552 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,400 it is, just regulation and you just think, no, this is just 553 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,239 how you run a business. Yeah, And I think sometimes we can get 554 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,559 into I know my listeners get into this thought of, oh, well, 555 00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:49,199 the reason I'm not where I want to be in my business is because I'm 556 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,760 not doing enough or I'm doing the wrong things. And I really like your 557 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,360 take on how it can be your nervous system that's actually capping your success. 558 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,280 It's not that you need to be doing all things. What are some of 559 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:07,079 the signs that somebody's nervous system is the thing that's keeping them stuck where they 560 00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:14,559 are? Yeah, So, honestly, the signs will be kind of spread 561 00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:16,760 out in all categories, and that there will be signs that are physical, 562 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,800 So a lot of physical ailments like we mentioned before, There will be mental, 563 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,880 there will be emotional, there will be more spiritual, more in terms 564 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:29,400 of like how you relate to yourself. But honestly, I think the one 565 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,800 of the biggest things that we could be on the lookout for is honestly how 566 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,800 we're speaking to ourselves. Right. I think it's a lot of the times 567 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,760 like a tellhale sign of where our nervous system is at. And so when 568 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:44,559 we're in a dysregulated state, our thoughts will mirror that kind of like And 569 00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:47,440 I keep using these analogies because I think it's helpful for people to visualize it. 570 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,559 This way. But like if you were running from a tiger in that 571 00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:53,079 same analogy I used before, it wouldn't make sense for you to have a 572 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:57,239 lot of positive thoughts, right. You wouldn't be like, Oh, everything's 573 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,599 going to be great, I'm so lucky, I'm so grateful. You'd be 574 00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:01,679 like, run faster. What's wrong with you? Go faster? Right? 575 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:07,719 And so when we're disregulated, our thoughts reflect the state, our story about 576 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,199 ourselves, about the world, and specifically about our business. It's going to 577 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:15,360 be a reflection of our state. So if we're disregulated and we're in that 578 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,159 you know you're not doing enough sympathetic state that I mentioned, the story is 579 00:40:20,199 --> 00:40:22,119 going to be you should be doing more, it's never enough, You're not 580 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:24,760 good enough. Why do you think you should rest? Right, It's going 581 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,599 to be very much like you should do more and you're not good enough, 582 00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:30,760 right, and everyone's out to get you and no one's on your side kind 583 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,480 of feeling. And then if you're in that shut down state of immobilization, 584 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:37,960 the stories like this will never work out. It's never going to happen. 585 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:43,400 Why even bother? Right? And I always encourage people to start looking at 586 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,199 their thoughts and seeing like those kind of thoughts are reflection of your state, 587 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,800 because if you're in that regulated state, it's not that suddenly everything is going 588 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:57,039 to be amazing and perfect, but there's a sense of possibility, there's an 589 00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:00,719 ability to think long term, there is a sense of aid, there's a 590 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,599 sense of Okay, this is hard, but maybe I need to make a 591 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:06,039 plan. I could reach for support, I can get tools that can get 592 00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:12,239 resources. When that disappears, we know we're getting disregulated. And when we're 593 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,320 disregulated, the chances of us figuring out the next step disappear. They're just 594 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,800 they're just not you know, they're not there. So I would say that's 595 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,920 a major one of like noticing those thoughts and remembering their reflection of your state. 596 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,519 And if it feels hard to access you know, long term thinking and 597 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:37,199 hope and resources, it probably means you're disregulated in that moment. Hmmm, 598 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:42,159 that makes so much sense. All right, Masha, I'm gonna wrap up 599 00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:45,639 with one question that I ask all of my guests, and that is, 600 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,639 when was the last time that you took imperfect action and what happened as a 601 00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:54,400 result. Oh, what a good question. I love to do that. 602 00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:58,639 I have to think about that I really sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe 603 00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:01,079 I should tell the guests going to Awesome this before the interview, but then 604 00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:04,840 I'm like, no, I actually like giving it to you and then you 605 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,840 have to think of it on the spot. Yeah, you know, I 606 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:15,920 actually do remember the last time because it was majorly triggering for my nervous system 607 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,880 because the perfectioniste me totally came out. But I would say the last time 608 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,400 I took imperfect action was actually with creating my group program. So the group 609 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,599 program that I have going now was definitely the result of imperfect action. I 610 00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:34,199 think for the longest time, I've put off creating a group program because I 611 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,320 was like, well, I don't know the exact thing I'm going to teach, 612 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,639 and I don't know how I'm going to cover everything, And I kept 613 00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:40,239 putting it off and kept putting it off, and eventually my business coach is 614 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:45,280 like, you got you gotta practice what you preach, like that's your perfectionism 615 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,079 and you have to take imperfect action. And creating that whole program I think 616 00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:53,960 has been a process and like really testing me to take consistent imperfect action, 617 00:42:54,119 --> 00:43:00,360 and it's been It's been really cool and really rewarding because it's also a me 618 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,320 to be a little bit more flexible and a little bit more open and a 619 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,000 little bit more like, let's do this training and see how it's received and 620 00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,079 then let's adjust, versus thinking that I have to have like this perfect thing 621 00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:14,239 that I might have been working on for like two years in secret, and 622 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,159 then releasing it without having gotten any feedback from anyone, right, and then 623 00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:22,679 probably expecting some kind of great result. Meaning meanwhile I probably would have needed 624 00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:27,559 to tweak it many times before getting any results. So ultimately, I actually 625 00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:30,760 think I got way better results doing it this way, but it definitely required 626 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:35,559 so much imperfect oh so much. And like any kind of creating, any 627 00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:38,480 kind of program, course, like any of that, I always say, 628 00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:40,920 like, you're going to help so many more people if you get it out 629 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,199 there imperfectly, then if you're just sitting on the idea like waiting for it 630 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:46,840 to be perfect before you put it out there into the world. So I'm 631 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,480 so glad that you shared that one. Where can our listeners go and find 632 00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:54,360 more about you? Where can they connect with you if they want to learn 633 00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,599 a little bit more? Yeah, so they could find me the best ways 634 00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:06,159 on Instagram On Instagram I'm Marsha K. M A s h a kay. 635 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,639 I am on TikTok, but I'm not as active there. I'm coach Marsha 636 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:15,079 K. And they could definitely check out my website marshak dot com where they 637 00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:19,400 could find my options for working with me. Amazing. Thank you so much 638 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,599 for sharing all of this, Like this has been I've learned so much. 639 00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:25,800 I know whoever is listening to this episode right now has been writing pages and 640 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,159 pages of notes because I'm going to go and listen to this again and like 641 00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:32,519 scribble down a million things. So thank you so much for sharing this with 642 00:44:32,599 --> 00:44:37,599 us. Thank you so much for having me. I just I so enjoyed 643 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,880 our conversation. I love talking about this. Thank you so much. All 644 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,719 Right, that is it for today's episode. If you haven't already hit subscribe. 645 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,960 Make sure you hit the plus button in Apple Podcasts or the follow button 646 00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:55,119 in Spotify and you'll get each new episode straight to your podcast app every Monday, 647 00:44:55,119 --> 00:44:59,239 Wednesday and Friday. And if you have any friends who you think might 648 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,960 be struggling with this issue, hit the share button, copy the link and 649 00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:05,679 send it over to them. It's how I get to help more people. 650 00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:07,239 Thank you, so much for listening. Catch you next time.