WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.080 In this segment, we travel to Oklahoma, where, like Louisiana, new 2 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:10.000 laws favor in Christianity, threatened classrooms and challenge constitutionality. Kelly Laughlin will introduce 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:16.280 what is happening here, Thanks Jimmy. Oklahoma school Superintendent Ryan Walters wants to 4 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:22.120 turn the state's classrooms into a Bible study and is implementing procedures to do so 5 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:28.480 immediately. That's correct, you heard me write immediately. In a statement last 6 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:35.159 week, Ryan called the Bible an indispensable historical and cultural touchtone, and he 7 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:40.359 seems to think that students are unable to grasp the foundation of the United States 8 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:44.840 without understanding the Bible first. Now, that's going to be harsh news for 9 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:49.200 all the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, atheists, and other non Christian students 10 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:53.240 in Oklahoma. Are they going to be able to pass American history classes now 11 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.159 because they don't understand it? Of course, there has been state and even 12 00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:03.520 nationwide opposition to this administration change, and even the Interfaith Alliance has stood up 13 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:08.959 against it, saying true religious freedom means ensuring that no one religious religious group 14 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:15.319 is allowed to impose its viewpoint on all Americans. This story is from the 15 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.439 BBC News by Burnt the Busman Junior on June twenty ninth, twenty twenty four. 16 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.560 Unbelievable. And you know, with what's going on in Louisia, Louisiana 17 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.159 right now, excuse me, Like we talked about earlier this week, it's 18 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.439 going to be hard for me to figure out who I'm talking about. I 19 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:34.680 think it's just also confusing and more of the same nonsense no matter where you 20 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.200 look in some of these red states, if you will. But Kelly, 21 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:45.159 you are our resident geologist. And he called Ryan Walters called the Bible a 22 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:49.079 touchstone? Is he correct? Well, I don't know if that is correct. 23 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.560 Now a lot of people won't actually know what a touchstone is. But 24 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:57.200 it was actually a blackstone fountain rivers, an Asia minor that they would use 25 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.920 to test the purity of gold. You would scrape your goal door on it, 26 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.200 and the color that the streak on the black stone would tell you how 27 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.800 pure the gold is. So I think what he's saying here is that we 28 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:14.159 have to test for the purity of the students, which to me is really 29 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:20.199 gross. And or he doesn't know what a touchstone does or is, and 30 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.840 he's just the oxygen stealer that he appears to be so. Yeah, and 31 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:29.159 in saying touchstone, I think that's just a misnomer for what he's actually trying. 32 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:30.759 Yeah, I don't know, Like I say, I don't know if 33 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:35.240 he actually knows what it means, because what he's saying is we need to 34 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:39.199 purify this do we need to make sure that our students are pure and only 35 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:46.879 Christian? I think he probably means like keystone, like a foundation or something 36 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:51.280 that holds things together, which I would disagree as well. I don't believe 37 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.879 that America the United States in particular, right, we're not talking about America 38 00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:00.800 the Americas. We're talking about the United States. And I don't think our 39 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.560 constitution is necessarily held together by the Bible. I don't think that the Bible 40 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:09.000 is necessary to understand our government. That doesn't seem right to me. But 41 00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:15.159 you know, there are organizations and there are efforts live and in color today 42 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:20.240 that are trying to intermingle the two. And so, Eli, I wanted 43 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.120 to go to you and ask you about your concerns that you have with this 44 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:29.960 agenda. Being representative of the Infamous Project twenty twenty five, can you explain 45 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:34.759 to our viewers a little bit about them. Yeah, So Project twenty twenty 46 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:42.759 five is essentially this plan for transition to another Republican presidency in the event of 47 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:47.680 a victory in the victory this year for Republican parties. So it involves things 48 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.240 like, you know, christian Like I mentioned in the last segment, you're 49 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:55.120 pushing religion into schools, Christianity specifically into schools. I would not, like 50 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:59.520 I mentioned, be surprised to see it Christianity become the state sponsored religion. 51 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:03.719 What Russell Russell Vault is the He founded the Center for Renewing America and in 52 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:10.599 twenty twenty one he wrote that christian nationalism recognize America, recognizes America as a 53 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:15.840 Christian nation, but makes a commitment to an institutional separation between the church and 54 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:19.959 state, but not the separation of Christianity from its influence on government and society. 55 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.560 And those two things sound so similar to me that if they are not 56 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:29.879 the exact same, all my face off and stabilit on Jungle Cat for the 57 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:32.000 rest of the year, because it just seems so crazy to me to think 58 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:36.800 that there's a distinction between those two things. And that's sort of what concerns 59 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:41.279 me about this is because we sort of have like a majority of Republican majority 60 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.279 Scotus right now, things like this could be allowed to fly. Like I 61 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.240 kind of expressed some certainty before about you know, this is either going to 62 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.639 get shut down or it's going to go this way. But we to be 63 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:57.240 realistic, we have to consider the fact that a Republican majority Supreme Court might 64 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.639 allow things like this to go on, especially you know, if they're expecting 65 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:02.560 that victory this year. Yeah, and that's a great point. You know, 66 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:09.800 expecting the victory in the Supreme Court is just one reason why we might 67 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:14.639 see things pop up like this pretty routinely. Like I mentioned earlier, like 68 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:18.480 we all talked about two nights ago, because today's what Friday, so Wednesday 69 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.879 night segment. You know, we mentioned how the Supreme Court could have an 70 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:27.600 influence in Louisiana. This is just one of those other fights that poses the 71 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.639 threat. But you know, let's say that the goal here is to really 72 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.519 educate chilled Okay, which I don't think any of us actually believe that, 73 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:40.279 but let's just say that, Rob could there be some positives in children being 74 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.120 forced to read the Bible. Yeah, it'll make more atheists, for one, 75 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:50.399 So yes, again, going backwards a little bit. I do actually 76 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:56.000 enjoy the idea of like his philosophy of religion or a history of religion in 77 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:58.720 courses like that. But we know that's not what they want. They want 78 00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:00.560 to be taught as truth. So let's just start with what they actually want, 79 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:06.040 which is taught is truth. So I saw a TikTok recently that was 80 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:14.399 like, there's a book in schools libraries that has two daughters get their uh 81 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.480 their father drunk and have sex with him, hoping to become incestuously impregnated. 82 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.480 Should that be in schools? And of course they say no? And so 83 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:28.360 it is telling how often people Christians don't know their own Bible. Uh. 84 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.680 And I don't know who said it, but it's a very famous quote. 85 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:33.040 Uh. The surest way of making an atheistis having someone read the Bible. 86 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:38.399 So if they actually taught the Bible, and presumably they taught it factual or 87 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:43.279 taught it they taught it fat as if it is factually correct or inerrorble Uh, 88 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.800 then yeah, I suspect more people realize that it's completely insane. Yeah, 89 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:49.959 and you know, we we I'm going to keep prketing back. So 90 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:55.360 there's So there's so many similarities to our earlier segment Louisiana and the one here. 91 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.560 And Kelly, you talked about a religion wall. Right, So in 92 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:02.439 Luis Siata, Uh, there was a law that the Ten Commandments have to 93 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:06.199 be posted. Uh. And what we say, how about the other religions? 94 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:10.800 How about how about these religions get put up? Kelly? Is there 95 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:15.800 a negative to having maybe all of the religions together being displayed in these classrooms? 96 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:20.560 Well? It now we're talking about teaching it, actually teaching the Bible. 97 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.519 So if we want to keep right excuse me right, Yes, if 98 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.240 we want to keep this constitutionally correct, that means that we have to be 99 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.560 able to teach, to teach all the other religions. So anytime devoted to 100 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:36.160 the Bible has to get equal time by everybody else. So if we do 101 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:40.680 a whole class, as they say, a semester long class on the Bible, 102 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:43.600 then we're going to have to have one for every other religion. Now, 103 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.399 how many religions are there? When are the kids going to be able 104 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.720 to learn how to do arithmetic? How? When? When when is algebra 105 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:53.120 class going to happen? Right? When are they going to learn remember that 106 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.560 American history they were talking about, We're not going to have time for American 107 00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:59.759 history because we're going to be too busy learning about religion. So yeah, 108 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:01.800 they're definitely negative to this. And again, I don't think this is going 109 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.560 to hold up in court at all. I mean, it's just such a 110 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:11.360 ridiculous idea. But but it's also again going to take up all these resources 111 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:16.959 to fight it in court. And he is implementing this immediately, which is 112 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.399 a problem. You think, well, that's not a problem because we're in 113 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:22.079 the middle of summer. Yeah, but there is summer school, and we 114 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.000 have teachers that are not going to want to do this in their classroom. 115 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:26.879 They're going to lose their license to teach. That's what he said. You're 116 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:31.680 going to have your license to teach revoke. Now, when this is found 117 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.440 to be unconstitutional, are these people going to get their jobs back? Are 118 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.399 they going to have be able to get their licenses reinstated? Right? And 119 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.600 if not, isn't this just a way to weed out those teachers to begin 120 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:45.639 with? You know, we don't We just fire them all and we don't 121 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.960 have to rehire them, so we don't have to worry about those those teachers 122 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.080 coming back and not wanting to teach the Bible like they should be. So 123 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.399 yeah, yeah, there's a big problem here. Yeah, and we've talked 124 00:08:54.399 --> 00:09:01.960 about Oklahoma before in lately other episodes. Yeah, they have really depleted their 125 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:09.000 stock, if you will, of qualified teachers by lessening the uh, the 126 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:15.360 qualifications necessary to teach, attracting people into these jobs that are actually not qualified. 127 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.440 And now they're even giving them more content that is going to take away 128 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.840 from the kids' education. You know, Eli, Well, we talked about 129 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.480 the problems that we're facing in Louisiana, and you said, well, if 130 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.759 if they have to post the tech commandments there and they have to post all 131 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:37.039 other religions to be constitutional. And now we look at Rob's point to where 132 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.200 well, maybe now if we teach these kids the Bible will have more atheists 133 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.960 and then and Kelly says, well, we have to teach them all the 134 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.960 religions, you know, maybe that'll have some kind of impact. Where do 135 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.639 you how do you see you know, the teaching of the Bible and potentially 136 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:56.320 making it consistent, making it constitutional affecting Oklahoma. So I remember in Oklahoma? 137 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:58.759 Yeah, yeah, so I remember specifically the last time you and I 138 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.840 toldked about Oklahoma. Sidney Davis Junior Junior is with us as well, and 139 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:07.759 she mentioned how Oklahoma is forty ninth in the country in education, and that 140 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:15.240 was on the topic of allowing students to skip some classes some some hours each 141 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.720 week, like three hours a week to go to optional Bible classes. Now 142 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:24.080 we're talking about mandating some time out of the day to take away from learning 143 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.039 like real true things that are going to help you in the world, to 144 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:33.039 now devote that to you know, Bible, to Christianity. And I think 145 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.039 we're going to really quickly see you know, whatever whatever number is in fifty, 146 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:39.720 they're getting ready to move up a spot because they're going to because Louisiana 147 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.639 or sorry, Oklahoma is going to drop down that that extra spot because they're 148 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:50.080 taking resources away from what is really important and putting it into you know, 149 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:56.440 Ryan Walter's you know preferred brand of magic. Rob you have a comment, 150 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:03.440 please, It's so close to being okay, because one of the best classes 151 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.799 and most enlightening classes that I have ever had was philosophy or religion history of 152 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:11.559 religion. So if they actually taught it as a thing, because because if 153 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:15.519 we back up a little bit, and we talk about like the whole touchstone 154 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:20.039 and historical significance of America. I don't think I don't think anyone thinks he 155 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.679 thinks touchdone. I didn't know what a touchdoone was. I am not in 156 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:28.919 his mind, but I assume he means the book's important. But you can't. 157 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.799 He hasn't said or establish any reason to go from the books important to 158 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.080 the book is truthful. So I agree with him as long as we take 159 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:43.000 out the truthful portion and that it is important. We're literally here Tony talking 160 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.120 about this because of this. Thus we are proving the point that this is 161 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:52.320 important. So yeah, teach it and then actually teach what it's about and 162 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:54.120 what's in it, and then put it up against all the other ones, 163 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.440 and then god forbid, they'll discover pluralism. Oh you mean, there's lots 164 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.440 of different gods and stuff like that. So that's why I'm frustrated, because 165 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:05.120 it is so close to being good, because it's almost like it's actually could 166 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:11.120 by actually teaching it, lead to discussions of many other religions, but it's 167 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.799 not going to happen. Like we know. I know that we're going to 168 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.559 do Monger and say ah, it's going to be taught as a truthful and 169 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:22.039 errable piece of fact, and that's sad. Well, I agree with you. 170 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.360 I think that it is really close to being okay because for the same 171 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.960 reason, when I was a college student, the best class that I ever 172 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.679 took was called Literature of the Bible. And on day one, our professor 173 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.679 said, who told Adam and Eve it was okay? Or Eve it was 174 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.360 okay to eat the apple? And everybody said satan? And they She said, 175 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:43.600 you might want to look again? Do you want to take a look? 176 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:50.240 And so there is some comfort in a way to teach the Bible as 177 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:54.960 a literary device, right, to teach the Bible as a compilation of human 178 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.919 history, as a philosophy book, perhaps, but certainly as a work of 179 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.879 literature, and maybe as a work of history. But teaching the Bible as 180 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:09.200 truth is not something that anybody can get on board on, and it just 181 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.639 makes it a problem. Now, Kelly, I want to ask you, 182 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.840 keeping on that point, what if we had And by the way, my 183 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.480 second favorite class was called the Nature and Experience of Religion, where not only 184 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:24.440 did I study Christianity, but I learned about Hinduism and Mormonism, and Islam, 185 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:31.039 and I learned about all the crazy stuff scientology and Mormons and things like 186 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:33.200 that. I think I might have said that. But in any case, 187 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.399 Kelly, do we have an opportunity to beat Ryan Walters at his own game? 188 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.039 I almost said Landry because we talked Aboutiana. Do we have an opportunity 189 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.320 to beat Walters at his own game? By saying? Sure? You know 190 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.120 what, let's create a whole course out of this, and let's teach all 191 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.919 these great things. Even if we say and we'll tell them why Christianities, 192 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.279 I don't know the best one or the most sensical. Is there a way 193 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.360 to open children's minds? Is there a loophole here? Yeah? I think 194 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.840 you know. If he want us to do this and keep it constitutionally legal, 195 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:11.600 let's not have a class that teaches just the Bible. Let's have one 196 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.840 that teaches comparative religions and take all the major religions of the world and put 197 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.960 them next to each other and show what they all believe in, why they 198 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.679 believe it, show the major tenets of those religions, and teach kids about 199 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:26.200 these things. Because the more kids learn, the better off they're going to 200 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.720 be. Let's face it, I mean, all of us have benefited from 201 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.000 learning more from a better education, and it's true of everybody. So if 202 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.840 we can take this, if we can take this teaching of the Bible and 203 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:43.000 use it to teach these other religions as well, we probably aren't going to 204 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.279 make a lot of people understand that maybe these religions are all made up. 205 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:52.840 Yeah, maybe the one religion I'm following isn't the one true religion. Maybe 206 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:58.120 one of these other religions has the title to being the one true religion. 207 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:03.200 So yeah, I think I think there's a lot of ways to defeat Ryan 208 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.960 Walter's on this at all completely, just by teaching what he wants to have 209 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.559 taught, but extending it and teaching about all religions. Did you raise your 210 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.559 hand like a good student just now? I did? Good? Good, 211 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.000 I'm a predictional student, thank you. Yeah, but no, because like 212 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.799 you're right, and I agree with you, and I'm not as up on 213 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.639 Project twenty five as I should be. But one of the things that I 214 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:31.399 did not know and is horrifying is ELI explaining that the way that they define 215 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.000 Christianity is a separate entity from religion. And I did not know that. 216 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.559 So yeah, I agree with you, man, like put in all the 217 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.200 texts, read all the books, learn all the things. But holy crap, 218 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:48.159 they're like literally saying that it is not a religion as described as Eli. 219 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.159 So they're divorcing the idea of it being from a religion because religion doesn't 220 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.840 necessarily need to be true. There's lots of religions and look, I have 221 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.759 the right one, but you know why, because mine's not a religion. 222 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:03.399 And so this is just going back to redefining and they are drawing, redrawing 223 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.399 the lines in the sand. So I would love that to happen, Kelly, 224 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:11.519 and I'm not sure that it will based on their literal definition of what 225 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.200 is a religion at this point. That's wild to me. Eli. I 226 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.000 want to posit something on you and get your thoughts on it. So well, 227 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.360 Rob made a quote today that he couldn't accurately attribute to anybody, and 228 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:26.960 I'm gonna do the same thing. So I heard, I heard a quote 229 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:30.840 that I love is, you know, religion is what happens when someone reads 230 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.279 the Bible for you, and atheism is what happens when you read the Bible 231 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.120 yourself. And on that note, I think, I think that the worst 232 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:42.720 thing that ever happened to religion was education. I think the invention of the 233 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:48.559 printing press coincides, if not sparked, the Enlightenment and the Reformation. And 234 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.919 now I think we're in a point where we just can't avoid education anymore. 235 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:56.799 And I almost wonder do we just roll with the punches and say, hey, 236 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.159 kids, go ahead read it and tell what you think. You like, 237 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.840 what are your thoughts on that? When you phrase it that way, 238 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:06.279 Yeah, that kind of does like it almost sounds like it would work, 239 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:07.200 you know, Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, this is fine, let's 240 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:12.759 do this. I was thinking, as you said it, the the way 241 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:17.160 that the printing present, the way that like how how you know religion was 242 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:22.160 taught, how Christianity was taught when it first started being taught, up until 243 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.440 the point where everybody was able to read, and everybody had a copy of 244 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:26.720 it, they could read it. And that's when, like you start to 245 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:32.240 see people start to I don't know about all of this. So yeah, 246 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.440 and I've said before on the show that and I guess I'm being a little 247 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.400 bit hypocritical. I might change my stance here a little bit because hiding information 248 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:42.519 from kids, because you don't think is true, isn't, or because you 249 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:47.880 don't think it's true, that's censorship. What would be the appropriate thing would 250 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:52.200 be to give them all of the information, teach them reliable methods for determining 251 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.599 what is true and what is not, and then set them loose on the 252 00:17:55.640 --> 00:18:00.160 Bible and say what do you think? And yeah, I think if we 253 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.240 do it that way that we could see, as Rob said, it makes 254 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.119 some more atheists. And that way. I was just thinking, probably the 255 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:08.960 best way to get teenagers to read it is to tell them they can't. 256 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:15.440 Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. If I were the teacher 257 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:19.319 in the classroom and I didn't care about getting fired, I might assign them 258 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.960 the stories like Rob talked about, where people are having sex and getting drunk 259 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.200 and you know, doing all kinds of things. We all know the famous 260 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.880 and probably all of our favorites. Ezekiel I don't remember which one it was, 261 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.440 but she longed for the days of her lovers where to make sure their 262 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.720 parents are seeing that homework too, that's right. She longed for the days 263 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.519 where she lusted after her lovers who had discharges like horses and members like that 264 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:52.279 of donkeys, following I cut you off on. Oh no, that's fine, 265 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.920 that's fine. No, you had a good point. Though. Parents 266 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.920 might think they're on board with this until the kids are bringing home homework that 267 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.880 I would bet you the parents don't even know. Yea, go ahead, 268 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:08.400 Rob, well like okay, So religion in Christianity has existed for a while, 269 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.880 and the printing press it existed since the fourteen hundreds. So something that 270 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:18.359 has changed my mind recently is the way that people interact with what is reading. 271 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.160 And so you start to get like when we the idea of people reading 272 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.519 a book by looking at the squiggles on the page and it makes you internally 273 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:34.279 hallucinate silently is super new. Most people have engaged in reading audibly. There's 274 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.359 a person who reads it and then you listen to it. That's reading for 275 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:44.160 the vast majority of human history. So it is only after people learned how 276 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:48.920 to read themselves that you get the explosion of different sex of Christianity and all 277 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.039 the other ideas of wait, I don't read it this way. So yes, 278 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:57.839 giving people information is the surest way of making them critical. However, 279 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.880 here's the problem. I don't know if this is intentional, but it is 280 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.759 an effect as you said that they are reducing the quality of the teachers. 281 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.359 Therefore, it's actually in their benefit to have people who don't know how to 282 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.720 teach, because then they're going to teach what they believe the Bible says, 283 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:18.680 rather than what we're all talking about, which would be a really lovely thing 284 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.440 to have happened. Yeah, I think that would be a horrible thing for 285 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:27.599 students, not only having unqualified teachers, but having unqualified teachers teach incorrect or 286 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:33.400 incomplete information. You know, Oklahoma is not in a good place, and 287 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:38.759 honestly, where has religion thrived the most among the uneducated classes, among the 288 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:44.359 people that can't think for themselves. Kelly, you're laughing, I think because 289 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.599 Oklahoma is not in a good place. It's right next to Texas. Oh 290 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:53.720 that's true, Missouri. Yeah. So so these these systems, these systems 291 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:59.000 that exist, the educational systems, excuse me? Are this? This turmoil 292 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:06.319 is almost self perpetuating. The more the government gets involved, the more there 293 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.599 seems to be a problem, And the more the government gets involved with religion, 294 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:14.160 right, and that's why the separation of religion and government is the central 295 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.200 tenet of the atheist community of Austin. And you know, we've talked a 296 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:21.279 lot tonight about reading the Bible or having people read it for you. And 297 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:25.240 I can tell you, folks, if you keep viewing the nonprofits, keep 298 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.119 tuning in, we will definitely read the hot articles for you so you don't 299 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:30.359 have to go find them themselves. Find them themselves