Calling All Beings. Y'all, welcome back to Calling All Beings. I'm your
host DJ along with my brother Money Nate. What's going on, brother,
what's up? DJ Man? Good to see you. Man. It's about
to get crazy up in here because we are going to have on the executive
producer of the Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch on History Channel. This brother's got an
emmy. I can't believe it. Wait, did you say he's got he's
got an emmy? That's not quite right. I don't think what. No,
it's it's two. He has two two? Okay, it's sure.
It's positive too. It's Utah Utah. I want two of those meatbaf sandwiches
Utah bring me to so check it out. Man, I'm so excited to
have this guy tonight. You guys are gonna be really excited because his beard
looks awesome, his hair looks awesome. Without coughing sans quoff, guy already
looks phenomenal. He's brought a great energy backstage already. Side know what he's
about to bring with you, So party people, put your hands together for
New York's own mister TJ. Hour, Amen, I've never had a welcome
like this before. That's amazing. Yes, TJ. Aler you guys,
dude me here. It was an honor. I'm sorry, go ahead,
brother, it's awesome. No, that's awesome. It was an honor and
a pleasure. Man. We've been working this for a while. Obviously you
had some some difficult situations with the family. You have our love and respect
for that. Thank you. We're with you, and and we're here to
try to cheer you up. And we don't have to cheer your hair up.
That's clear the beer, so yes, look at that. He knows
what the people want to give it. This is entertainment, give the people,
all right. So we brought a party of five on to talk with
you about the ranch, about your journey as as an executive producer and creating
content. Uh. It was very interesting to hear you talk about speaking with
studios and what sells and what doesn't sell. That was interesting for those of
us that are lay persons. Uh. And and we will get serious here.
I might even take off my glass. Whoa, Yes, it can
happen. I feel like I need to change my lighting. I forgot to
put the powder. Yeah, you gotta know, TJ. I was just
a little bit yeah, I was gonna go to hair and makeup and just
by the time I left work, it just didn't happen. So yeah,
okay, anyway, he took that seriously he thinks I did. Yeah,
yeah, all right. So hey, listen, you never know you like
some hardcore production value behind stuff, you know, you never know that's because
it that's because of this guy right here. I'm pointing over Peter Brady in
the cube next to me. So uh no, he's made it. He's
made this this thing look professional and phenomenal, and it's not just me wailing
away in audio. So thank you, Nathan. Nathan, you got the
first question from my brother TJ Allen, my brother who's doing that thing about
skin walk range. Yes, yes, so TJ, you've been in this
business for about twenty years, is that right? Yep? And I doubt
there's any kind of like conventional journey for someone who's in this industry. But
you know, how would you characterize the path that got you to where you
are right now? Is it what you expected or what kind of crazy turn?
A little bit man, not even a little bit. I actually started
off as a video game designer for U Wow. I worked on the very
first Batman animated series game for the Xbox GameCube and the Nintendo sixty four.
Dating myself back in the nineties when we used to design games. Back then,
we were programmers. I wasn't a coder that we designed. So it
was a it was called Team Gotham, right, so you'd be soft hired
a bunch of designers in New York. I just happened to be one of
them. I left McKinsey and Company. I started off at McKinsey and Company
is in an endless training in the training program, and it just wasn't for
me at the time. I was, you know, young, and so
I got an opportunity to design games and we made them with graph paper,
legos and whiteboard. What that's how we designed them, not kidding. The
level design was all done like that on twenty fifth Street between fifth and sixth
I think it was, yeah, fIF Is that just story boarding? Is
that a form? Storyboarding was actuals No, We literally designed games the gameplay,
and then we'd have to pass it off to the coders and then they
would put everything into the engine and it was running. That game was running
on the old ub Soft engine that ran Rayman, which was their big platform,
right, was the Ubi Soft. It was like the French Mario.
So you do you consider yourself a gamer at all? So still I still
uh as I as I have my controls. That's keeping it real, folks.
Yes, I have a nine year old and we played Minecraft a lot,
nice and we also start playing We've been playing Fortnite more and more.
I'm not I don't really like playing the shooters with him yet a little young,
but I'll let him play with me, right, But then you trash
talk your nine year old TJ. No, God, no, listen.
I can do with my boys all the time. Man, you gotta put
them in their place, old gamer man, I didn't know that time of
game or two. So my guys are thirteen and eleven. They're big into
Minecraft and they, I mean they'll play pretty much anything. They got the
switch and all that kind of stuff. Okay, yeah, I mean I'm
from a different era of gaming, like we used to. You know,
I used to go to land parties and you know, there'd be fights would
break out, people would throw cans of mountain do at each other. You
know, if there's a mountain dew reference coming, I knew it. Yeah,
But Uh, I mean, I guess, you know, starting off
at as a game designer, and then after that I helped launch game Loft,
which was a gaming which is now a huge game uh maybe a publisher
for mobile games. They're part of Ubisoft, so there's Ubisoft, and then
gime O is their hardware, and then game Loft, which was initially their
online component, became their mobile component. But when I was there, it
was an online company and I was a US content manager and we did I
started to do game broadcasting before it was a thing, and uh, it
was around the you know, the dot com bust happened, and then I
said, you know, I came to New York City to be to work
in entertainment, and it was kind of working in entertainment, but after the
dot com bust and nine to eleven happened, I lost my apartment. I
lived three blocks from the towers at the time, and so I just,
you know what, I was done with the gaming and I was like,
listen, I came here. I had a reason. And then I just
started. I got a bar hunting job, started the auditioning and you know,
off of the races, performing an entertainer, first as an actor,
prior to getting into production. Yeah, so I learned, you know.
I mean, it's funny. New York was such a different place back then.
I used to perform upright, So the Stins Brigade Theater, it was
prov comedy nice place. And Amy Poehler was my first, one of my
first coaches. She wasn't famous at the time. She wasn't famous. It's
like all four of the UCB the used to be four were all my coaches
at one point. Amazing, and there was only probably like two or three
hundred people maybe in the whole theater at the time. And it was like
a big you know, like it was a really close community, right,
And I was performing, you know, four or five nights a week at
dive bars and wherever you could, and at the theater under Gristiti's basement on
twenty seventh and ninth or eighth. There was a grocery store there and that
was original, right, Okay, yeah, yeah, it was. It
was. It wasn't the original UCB place, but it was the one that
it was the one that I performed at most of the time. And uh
and then yeah, and then a lot of the people that I kind of
came up with UCP just blew up. And then all these people they all
went west, uh, and they all, like a lot of them became
you know famous, Like I came up with a lot of people who ended
up being really successful amazing. Uh. And yeah, by the way,
it's all relative, right, It's all relative, not Amy Poehler. But
yeah. And then then I realized, you know, after auditioning so often
and performing and you know, it had some shows like as a correspondent in
celebrity interviews blah blah blah that stuff. And then I got into like commercial
production, realizing the money is behind the camera. Uh. And it's a
much You're a little bit more in control of your fate that way. Yeah,
it's a little bit more stable. And I really tried like how do
you make your own vehicle? Uh, you know, how do how do
you kind of get something going? And I tried it from the outside and
it didn't work so well. And then I took a job at NBC at
thirty Rock for a while, and I was like, you know, I'm
gonna try this from the inside, and you know, I did pretty well
with it there. But then eventually I you know, you can only get
so far internally I learned, and I would have known unless I did it
right. And so then I decided to kind of go out, you know,
do my own thing again. But now I have some production skill or
production background and credits under my belt. And I started pitching shows with Joel
Patterson, who is my producing partner. He and I went to college together
at Upstate New York at Hartwick Hartwick College. Brother, we're New York brothers.
You know that man, Yes, yes, peak skill? Yeah,
right, Well this is so this is an oneata right where Heartwick is.
And you know it's funny because at the time and this always kills me.
So Joel Joel trade accounting cars, right, and you realize how small?
Yeah, and it's long running and he's well and uh, you know,
because of him, a lot of doors had gotten opened for us to hear,
you know, for pictures to be heard, and and uh what was
funny though? And I found out later. So while I was at Heartwick
with Joel, there's another guy named there named Curtis Wyinn. In Curtis,
I ended up performing you see U se be with him way back when in
early two thousands. Curtis was the showrunner and execut coep on Stranger Things for
the last two seasons. So it's like what I mean, right, and
he wasn't So it's awesome, man. Yeah. So, I mean it's
a really small it's such a small community. It really is in entertainment,
and uh, you know, I've just been lucky that I've had some longevity
and I've been able to kind of you know, keep it going. It
is a war of attrition. Like the only people that I know it's it's
it's the ones that stay in are the ones that succeed. Uh that's in
front of it, behind the camera. It's as long as you can you
know, it's those overnight successes are twenty years in the making, and it's
hard. You know a lot of people, like kids right now, they
don't kind of get that this this uh just happened in a year, right,
Yeah. Yeah. If it doesn't a year, that's too long.
I've heard. I've heard some of these kids like get discouraged after like a
few weeks. It's crazy. I only got like a couple hundred hits.
Yeah wow right. Yeah. So but as you can you can see,
as you can see, TJ, you are successful because one of the good
things is that success is only measured with our own ruler. There's no other
person's ruler that counts. And where you came from from, you know,
uh, being in that apartment and to where you are now. I mean
obviously, uh, you've made tremendous success. You know, my success is
measured by my ruler. I don't care what somebody else did, who their
ruler says that they're more successful, are they? I don't know, maybe
maybe not? Yeah, So I mean I try not to look like you
know, you you can drive yourself crazy, and especially in entertainment and uh,
you know, just for those who are so I'm trying to read the
tea leaves. So TV is dying. I mean, it's all It's kind
of obvious. And so I have taken to this and that's why I like,
I will do every show that I can. I want to meet as
many people, talk to as many people. Special is that you are for
today, Yes, yes, beautiful unique snowflake'll be the But I try to.
I try to just reach out and you know, make myself as available
as I can. I'm not done yet, I don't feel. At the
same time, I'm also getting a master's degree in data science. So I'm
trying to continue the lifelong education stuff and see how I can leverage that in
television. And I just there's a lot happening, and it's it's this is
this is the next. You know, well, it's not the next,
it's here. But there's got to be a transition from the TV world,
like to merge the two. Nobody knows it yet and I'm I'm put myself
out there trying to figure it out. I think one of the best things
that I can do is the reach. You know, it's and it's not
it's I. You know, as you can see my twenty years to do
what I'm doing. It's like it's baby steps, right. You have to
put in the work, put in the time, and you know, I
will talk to everyone I can and kind of make make because I make itself
available to try to hear more stories and this is this didn't exist years ago.
There were gatekeepers at every network, uh, and so it was very
hard to find talent and or stories. And so now it's like, wait
a minute, if I just open up my DMS and talk, people will
Okay, fine. You know, it's like casting a wider net. You
know, yes, and it's were of the same feeling as you do that
we want to just talk to a lot of people. People that have an
interesting thought or a positive vibe. We want to talk to them. We
don't care if they have seven Twitter followers, seven hundred or seven thousand,
and so we're we actually have the same theory on our show or the same
guiding principle. No, I mean I feel like it works. Uh.
You know, there's there's the big misconception. You know, those people in
TV, they all make tons of money in this It's no the people who
make the real money the one's online. To be honest, I know because
I know the budgets and I see it and you'd be very surprised. But
these this is the way and I'm hoping that, you know, like when
we did the Twitter space, right, I never know how big those things.
Sometimes they get huge, like thousands of people and sometimes it's twelve,
and it doesn't matter. I'm just I want to make sure people can talk.
I love listening to what people have to say. I am not a
I don't judge anyone. I don't That's not what I'm into this for.
I am a conduit for I give people access, right, So I am
not the one looking for the unknown or trying to answer questions. I'm looking
for people that are or looking for people that are doing interesting things. And
I at least hear it and say, hmm, now can I take that
and put that in a way to put it on TV or give it a
bigger platform. Yeah, you're you have a very unique ethos, Like would
you how would you characterize your approach and mentality versus your colleagues in the industry.
You feel kind of like unique to me. It is, it's different.
I get a lot of I don't know a lot of whys. You
know some what you find happen is a lot of and I try not to
generalize right when I talk, but it's it's hard sometimes because it's it just
is the many people in entertainment. When you're in it, you don't see
anything else. It's such a bubble, and you think that the entire world
revolves around everything you're doing, and you don't ever get to see anything on
the outside. I don't want to see anything on the outside. When you're
developing shows, you're pitching to people that they don't want to think they're being
you know, not to putting one down. It's like they're being counters though.
Right, they have a job to do and this is what they need
and they need a bigger return, right, so what your job is is
to provide them with the easiest win that they can get, right, and
they so there's a lot less talk of development that happens. Like they'll put
out mandates that are saying we're looking for X, Y and Z, and
then producers, you know. I always say like they're like cockroaches, they're
everywhere. So and a good example of that is like when I'll see a
great story in a newspaper or something, I can go back a few years.
There's something in I don't know, one of the bigger like the New
York Times or something. It was in the Sunday Times, and it was
talking about people who were moving houses from like across Lake, Ontario or something
like that. Right, it was cheaper to move a house than build house.
Wow. And it was in the Sunday Times. And I saw it
in Sunday Morning, you know or whatever. I saw it online and I
immediately start tracking down, you know, doing my osan investigations, trying to
find who the sources are Bam, I find them. I leave a voicemail.
Next morning, I got a call. I get a call back and
it was like, you know, blah blah blah. We're talking and she's
like, you know, you're like the seventeenth or eighteenth I've talked to already.
I'm like, man, that means that seventeen other people got to you
before me. Incredible and so yeah. But the way that I see it
now, you know, people don't want to look like I'm looking I you
know, I pound the pavement right you. At a certain level, people
just feel like they'll just come People just come to me, you know,
they'll just find me. But they don't, at least my experiences, they
don't. And I'm not at the level where I just snap my fingers and
make a show yet. Someday maybe I'll have that ability, but right now,
you know, I'm just I have to keep on hustling. And it
is different. It is. I don't know any other people that that not
not like I'm saying I'm a you know, beautiful unie snowflake or anything.
And I always use that line because I don't believe anybody is right. I
feel like people have elements that are great and and everyone shares those, but
I don't know anyone else who's doing who has this approach. Yeah, so
I know it's a long winded answer to your question. That's awesome. Love
to hear it. So when you don't want to be in the bubble,
you move back, you move back to Buffalo, and you go and get
your master's degree. And that's how you're like outside the bubble and you're able
to connect with real life. It is, it is, and I mean
this is. I live in Orchard Park. I live about three miles away,
four miles away from the stadium, from the Bill Stadium, and it's
it's a different world here. After living in the city for so long,
I didn't realize it was like that this up here. And I'm from Central
New York, which isn't Western New York Buffalo, and I living in New
York so long, it's the same thing. You be. You get these
blinders on, right, and you think this is life, and everything outside
of New York is like diet life. I used to call it. It
wasn't really life, but it was. And now that I'm out outside of
New York, I'm like, that's crazy. This is real it is.
It is yes and uh, and so in the industry, like there's a
really where I live, there's a couple of huge YouTubers here that I never
knew, I mean, tens of millions of followers, and uh, you
wouldn't know where they're from. And so it proves that you can do it
anywhere. Nowadays, it's just trying to catch a wave. And you know,
again, I'm kind of just going through this all like, I just
want to be as open as I can for people and and try to reach
out and listen. This has been I've already I've pitched so many things that
I've already heard from reaching out like this last year plus that it's it's amazing.
Some things are moving, some you know, fall by the wayside.
But I'm very honest and open with people about it. It's not me.
I will take you and present it and if it doesn't work, hey,
good luck, try another way. I give it. I can give it
my swing. But that's that's kind of how I work. I guess so
and that and for that, I'm even happier that we had you on,
that you are so grounded and uh, and that you you do take that
approach and value real life more so than somebody who wants to be cocooned and
and just live in that bubble. So yeah, yeah, we're even we're
even more honored than we already were if you had let's bring on our home
deb at a study of UAPs our his his contextualizer and researcher. Hi there,
No, I was very happy to see you here today. So we
were talking a little bit about some of the hard work that you've gone through,
and I have a question that has to do with some self sacrifice.
And you might say that you went through when you joined this project working on
the ranch, and yes, I'm switching to the ranch. You had a
sensory experience and I personally would like to know more about that experience. I'd
like to know what you think the catalyst was for that experience, how it
ultimately ended, how long it took to end. And I have a little
curiosity if you've ever tried to find out a little bit more about what it
was you were hearing during that sensory experience. Okay, so yeah, so
I just I want to go ahead, DJ, were you doing this?
Because that was one love to dab for a great question. Oh awesome,
Okay, So I should clear So I haven't been out to the ranch since
probably two years. I don't go I'm not out there on a day to
day. Uh So, just to kind of clarify, like, I'm not
like this is Prometheus's gig. Prometheus is the production company. Those are the
guys that are out there in the field. They're putting it together. They're
kicking you know, kicking butt with it. But I can you know from
my experiences out there, they happened each and every time I was there,
it happened, which was multiple I mean I don't I mean I was probably
there a dozen times, maybe I give or take. I just don't remember
because we'd stay in a hotel and then you're going back and forth all the
time. So I mean multiple occasions. And uh so it happened the first
even the first time I was out there, it started, you know,
you get the little bit of dizzy stuff happening, the onset of that.
So I should also let me back up for a second. Initially, the
Travis Taylor role, I was the guy who's playing that role in the pitch
in the initial presentation reel to the networks, and it was. It was
mainly because they Okay, I tracked this down, did this, had an
interest, had experience on camera off camera, I was into tech, and
it was a good enough it was a good enough fit to put it together.
Once it gets to the network, it's rightfully so you know, they
want to add they want someone with credentials and credibility into their you know,
the good on them. They did a great choice, perfect selection. Uh
the but so there's even video of me like having some of these episodes.
There was one we're digging and my heart rate goes like nuts. We all
have risk the monitors on and Eric Bard Eric Grasby like literally takes me out
of a hole and puts me up against one of the those little pope they
used to call them popemobiles, you know, those little potemobile things. Yes,
yeah, and we're you know, he's checking my pulse and stuff and
it's through the roof and there's no rhyme or reason. I'm pretty healthy guy.
I don't have any you know, knock wood to have any ailments.
And uh, that was kind of the first one, you know, breaking
out in sweat and whatever. And then at right after that, moments later
strangely enough, and it made the first episode too. That was my cell
phone. So my cell phone dies out there immediately, just it bricks and
I'm trapped, you know, Like, so I'm out there with Joel and
it's like, I have so much stuff on my phone, my productions stuff,
everything, and luckily I have it synked and so I could use my
PC later. But uh, my phone gets pricked and it was a new
phone at the time. You couldn't figure it out. Done. No,
that's just done. Done and Eric and so so much so that I was
like, here, Eric, keep it, and that's what and that's why
it was in the first episode. On the table, you'll see he's got
a couple of phones and I'm like, there's this my phone crazy and he
sent me he sent me this shot like he eventually gets it booted back up
and everything. It's just toasted. He took you know, part of it
was fried and there was a crazy image on it that we couldn't figure out.
I gotta see if I can get that. And I think it felt
like it was. It wasn't like a skim walk. I don't think I
didn't agree with the ranch. I think I had to do with some malware
or something that maybe I had, or or the operating system or some update
that something got pushed. But it was just funny. That was years later,
or that was you know, yeah, over a year later. But
so the phone bricks and it just kept things just kept getting weirder and weirder,
and I wasn't having I was getting a little ear ringing and I had
one I remember one night having the smells, getting the sulfur smells out there,
but I didn't I wasn't hearing the music or anything, and it would
all and when I would leave, it would go away. When I would
leave the ranch, like to go to the hotel, it's gone. Then
the one of the last days on the I think it was the first trip,
one of the last days to hit me again the sound, and then
that stayed with me. It stayed with me from my next couple of visits
months in you know, between time and then that's the same time, like
I think the second time I had that, and then I also had I
was starting to have respiratory issues that just wouldn't go away. And that lasted
like a good nine months. So multiple visits back and forth, and I'm
going back, and you know, I'm in New York City at the time,
you know, me and my wife, uh yeah, and my son
at the time, and you know, I was just sick going to the
doctor. They couldn't figure it out. And I've told the story a few
times already, so you know, they do blood tests and stuff, and
I don't have the technical terms for it, but when they take your blood,
different parts of the country can run different kinds of tests. I want
to say, it's something like the palette, right, like maybe the testing
palette or so to speak, and they can run tests for certain certain things.
Right. My doctor was you know, she went as far as using
the word alien, not meaning alien out of space, but alien as in,
we don't know what this could be, right, And because it's just
coming kept coming back, they don't know. But I'm clearly my lung.
I was having swelling in my you know, respiratory swelling. I don't know
if it esophagus, whatever the hell it was. They put me in an
iron lung head me breathing and all this other stuff, and just couldn't get
to the bottom of it. And but you know, she was saying,
like, maybe if I got blood work done out there next time I had
gone that they could determine what it is. Maybe they're test they could test
for something that is localized to that area. And I'm just I was trying
to stay grounded, like in you know reality, right, I was trying
not to go to the woo woo. I was just trying to say,
Okay, you know, it's not wu it's maybe it's something in the soil.
Maybe it's I'm allergic to something could be in the tree bark, who
else. And just never got to the bottom of it. But during that
time, the heat ringing on multiple, multiple, multiple occasions, it turned
into music, and I just wish that I I had hummed the tune into
my phone or something, but it turned into I just kept calling it old
timey music. And you know, I picture like old timey music, like
like a cheesy uh you know, the Western movie, and you know,
and it's like in spaghetti Western, yes, and atoon is on the ground
and you walk in and it's like somebody playing the crank, the little cranky
thing, and that's where the music is coming from. Wow, that's that's
the kind of music I was hearing. And my wife, you know,
it scared her. Because she The one instance I have burned in my memory
is like I'm my head. I got my ear put on the ground on
the stairwell going upstairs because I hearing it in and it felt like, I'm
like, where the hell is this coming from? And I kept thinking it's
coming from the walls, like the matrix. Something isn't the walls? Wait,
we can doo wo. And then there's like Eli Wallack and Clin Eastwood
and they're kind of like the honey, get over there, what is this?
And I scared her though, man, I scared her wild and so
but I could never figure out what it was. And then I think after
my last time, when the last time out there, when we finally went
and signed everything, and and uh, I feel like that was the last
I went home and it was gone. I hadn't heard it anymore. Eric.
Eric kept telling me, you know, I had I had a hitchhiker.
I don't know what to make of that. I don't claimant to know
any of it. Uh, something's going on, right, I just don't
know what it is. But uh, yeah, that's my experience, that's
my audit, my centory one. I guess, Well, thank you so
much for sharing all that I wasn't dodging. Is there anything else like I've
got? I've got I wanted. What I want you to do, TJ,
is to take us inside the rental car. You've left the hotel.
Okay, you're driving to the ranch. Okay, we arrived at the ranch.
And as you're getting ready to turn the car into the ranch. Is
there a feeling that you get or is it just I just pulled into Dristiiti's
garage? No, I what do you feel the first time? The first
time, I was scared to death? All right, I was super scared.
And the signs and stuff that you see now they're not there, the
well, the ones that I have photos of of me first getting there,
and like Jim Jim and this woman Michelle, they were kind of escorting me,
Me and Joel taking us on and uh, it was yeah, it
was this. It was more excitement and fear and the But after that time,
because I realized the first time, what I'm sort of trying to get
at is what you felt when you're like, Okay, I'm going back.
It's another day of shooting, and and and now that you know what to
expect, how do you Oh, so yeah, uh, there's that when
that first episode they were saying shields up right where they were talking about like
like that trekism sort of. And so they gave me a power stone.
They gave me this big stone that I kept in my my I had my
cargo shorts on and uh, I had this big stone in my pocket.
They were like, they call it a powerstone and that was supposed to ward
things off. And I got it had been successful. I guess, you
know, the first few times I was there, or the first few days,
because it really didn't hit. It wasn't like a I can't yeah,
I can't even remember. It was the first two or three days. I
think that stone. I guess I remember saying that the stone must have worked,
and I feel like at a certain point it stopped. And again I'm
just I don't know. I'm just you try to be respectful for people.
If they're putting faith into something like that, then who am I to discount
it? Uh? You know, listen, if it works, then that's
awesome. If it doesn't, that's fine too. I got a rock in
my pocket, okay, but like whatever, So, but it was it
was scary to go back and Joel. He didn't. He didn't have any
issues at all. We did have a lot of tech issues though. But
you're scared. You're kind of hyper aware of stuff. Uh. And then
you you know, you see things, you see things in your your mind
playing tricks on you. Is it not? Am I? Am I really
seeing that? Did that really happen? Then you you know, you're always
asking like did you guys see that? Did you see that? Uh?
And then I had got out with Caleb for a long time alone, the
two of us just like driving around the property and stuff, and he's all
crazy stuff. Man, I'm not gonna lie, but he's just like you're
I was gonna ask you if if it's your attitude that prevents you from being
fearful, but I do, I do need to get a Kashi Chris on
here. But if it is, it, is it your approach? Because
people talk about what you bring to the ranch is what it's going to reflect
back on you. So if you're bringing in aggressive attitude, if you're bringing
weaponry, is your approach? Is that causal in the fact that you don't
feel threatened at all times? Or I don't know, Uh, I don't
know. I can only go by with the you know, with everyone else
is like a body of experiences or you know, the numerous experiences. What
everyone is saying is, you know, this is kind of the way it
works for me. Maybe And I never felt threatened or anything. It's uh,
you know, I think it one of the conversations does Eric. He's
like, well, listen, maybe it liked you just wanted to go home
with you, maybe felt like by And it was like he show'm the spirits.
They want to go back to Motel six or Hampton and wherever. He's
saying, I think it was the Winterton Sweets. Actually I think it was.
It was Tom Winterton Sweet Spirits. Next time he's there. He just
asked to front desk clerk, He'll tell you, Akasha Chris. Yeah,
let's get her on here. Dad, Thank you so much, Thank you,
love I Goussie. Where's that name come from? Akashi Chris? Why
do I know that my name is Chris? And but it gets better than
that. I'm actually obsessed with the acacak Field and akashak records and the ability
to you know, use your mind and you know, really hook up to
the network that lies within, you know, and and this is a huge
puzzle. So and I'm like, there's gotta be something that creative intelligence of
the universe sitting right there. And it's like some people learn how to write
it and some don't. So that's where I got the Chris. I thought
it'd be like christ the label to put out Motley Cruz Records, but it's
a commonsconception, same movely group. And yes, for anybody looking, yes,
that is Travis Taylor behind me, because I'm a super fan girl of
the show, TJ. It is is definitely a pleasure talking to you.
So I do have I have some questions. I have something specific based on
your experience. So in looking at like going back to season one, I've
watched them multiple times, So going back to season one again and there's so
much focus and and this flows perfect to the previous conversation, so much focus
on the equipment and the failures and and I wasn't sure how much. I
mean, obviously it's a production and you're you know, you have to you
know, shows really cool. I can't belie believe that that bricked phone was
yours. That's crazy. So as as a producer, and what percentage of
your efforts do you think we're we're hurt or halted or somewhat distracted by the
phenomenon because that that I think you were in a living lab under conditions that
might not want you to find out. So can you tell me a little
bit about that? Sure, I don't know if I give you a percentage,
you know, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I
don't. I'm just trying to be like transparents. I can with stuff like
I'll answer all this the best I can be. The equipment thing is you
always bring backups upon backups, right, so you usually you don't you don't
miss a shot? You don't. I mean, well, no, you
can miss it in the moment. But I mean if if your if your
plan is we're going to do an aerial shot of this of you know,
fly over the ranch with a drone. I keep it in my own microphone
about that. I'm trying to set up love it man, Like here,
you're as cool as the other side of the pillow. TJ. Continue please
the uh the uh. If you're trying to get a shot like that,
or like you know, you got something slated to do, you're gonna get
it one way or another. If if it doesn't work, that day,
maybe it's the next day. It's if it's something like that. So you're
gonna get the stuff done, but it's definitely a pain in the butt.
Like I had one of our dj I the Phantom two pro. I think
it was at the time, the Big White one sounds like beasts, you
know when they when it flies. Uh. Thing fell out of the sky,
like literally the sky, just like you saw in front of Homestead too.
How it would lose. The difference was it was in the air when
it happened. It just uh. And at that time, the guy who
was shooting with us, he was uh. He works on the Expedition Expedition
Unknown, the one with Josh Ja. Yeah, so Evan Stone, his
name is, he's awesome DP. He travels the world and he's like,
listen, guys, I've never seen it, Like he's been everywhere he's seen,
right with Josh Gates has been everywhere. So yeah, and it's like,
dude, yeah, I don't know, he goes it does this stuff
does happen in these certain locations around the world, So I don't know if
there's anything gets actually missed. Stuff gets lost though, And so that's funny.
One of the first times we were out there, Brandon. The first
day we shot, we were doing some shots me and just me and Joel.
This is the first trip we took out there, first time I met
them in real life after tracking them down for over a year. The uh
when we left and we went back to the hotel that night, and you
check all your footage and you you know, okay, let me step back.
Footage doesn't exist unless it exists in two places, right, doesn't matter.
You can have a cop. If you don't have a copy of something,
you might as well not have it because if that copy gets lost,
then it's useless. So when you bring it back, you know, you
dump. It's called dumping your footage, right, You dump your footage and
you make a copy of it. And so after you make your copy,
you check everything. And Brandon was like, I'm gonna be curious to see
if you guys got any got all the stuff we shot, and there was
some corrupted stuff we missed. One interview we lost a lot of and it
kept going in out of focus, which was weird because it was a manual
focus, so it shouldn't happened. But when we told him, yeah,
we got most of it, he's like, you know, well that's a
first he goes, and you guys are the chosen ones, he said,
because most people don't get any footage off the ranch. It just doesn't come
off like wow. So that was cool wow. Not that anyone was out
there under the production companies were out there trying to shoot it. He's just
saying, historically speaking, nobody gets gets any shots off the ranch. And
yeah, that's exactly what I was wondering, because it seemed like that there's
something trying to stop you know, it's a combination of factors, right,
but there's obviously something trying to stop you. And I would think that that
would cause some major headaches from a production perspective, because you always have to
play two or three times for something that other people don't have to be challenged.
It's true. It's so true, like brute force. Right, maybe
maybe you can't stop brute force. Maybe you can stop water or two cameras,
but if you have a dozen, it's like, all right, I
can't stop all of them, so one of them is going to catch it
or maybe many questions, but I know we're running out of time, so
I'm gonna turn it back to them. But I just wanted to thank you
so much, TJ. Because in a quessure, hopefully we can have you
back because they have more questions. There's gonna be a lot we have to
have part too. Give it back to you. Thanks guys, ma'am.
Let's bring on flair and he has a question. He has he has some
serious questions for TJ. Here serious guys. Hold on. Yeah, let's
okay. Oh man, let's get prepared. Can you handle it? Okay,
we'll do this. Here, we'll do pearls. Go all right to
your your your sensory experience. Actually switch gears back to that. I got
some questions, so yeah, I might I might know what have what might
have happened to you? You know? And I need need some more answers
first, Like when they're screaming for allergies, did they check like for like
polling, I imagine watermelons, silver nitrate? Did they screaming for that?
Maybe? Oh god, I don't know that. It's pretty important. Why
wait? Why? Why? Why? Well? Just part of my theory,
you know, we come back to that. That's a good beard.
You've got a nice beard, actually very nice. When I grow fast,
I better know it's pretty fast, right. If I didn't, if I
went two days with your condition in the flesh right now, I got your
now rates right. I wanted to start with us. Oh last mess that
up? Who is your dad? What you doing? Yeah? Okay,
I love it. Sound board man, I miss that. Those are the
Internet dates. Good good times. All right. So, on the night
of November nineteenth, twenty twenty one m which was the beaver moon, the
last full moon, I didn't name it that, did you experience any excessive
hair growth? Oh? My god, I don't know. I don't know.
I always have excessive hair grow. Interesting, I should write that down,
dude. How about itching? Probably? Yeah, strange behavior like drinking
out of toilet or anything. You're like that that this is positive the yeah?
Yeah. Is it a TikTok thing? Now? People make stuff in
toilets and then they eat it. It could be it probably is a TikTok
thing. Yeah, yeah, I think in TikTok. Yeah. Is that
what you watch now? No? No, no, no no. If
I watch I would know that, but I think i'd heard it somewhere.
It's okay. I will not judge you. I will not I watch whatever
I can and I'm looking cool. It's cool. So do you're like odd
taste, like trigger any hostility from your co workers? I mean, you
know, the drinking from the toilets and the the weird crashing. You better
get videos like the judge and a few good men. We better get somewhere
counselor you're leaving like these little nuggets. Right, So I'm here when I'm
hearing like, so if you have to be pretty crass to get this out.
But have you heard this? This thing now they call it poop mask
in the office. Have you heard of this? I guess it's a thing.
I haven't been to an office in a while, right because I because
of COVID times and everything. But somebody mentioned this and I had to go
and google it. I guess a lot of HR departments and bigger companies.
You're not allowed to wear your mask in the restroom if you're going to the
bathroom. I don't understand it because it could get on your mask and pollute
your mask, and then you're spreading that like, oh my god, so
we're talking about drinking out of the toilet or something. It just kind of
triggered that. No, that's cool, man, I like I like where
this is going. Random info, Yeah, random info. Okay, So
how about let's talk about favorite food, Like, how do you like your
steak well done, rare, radioactive? I like it very rare, rare.
Okay, that's very interesting as well. That is that's interesting, Yes,
isn't it? I think if it's any more, if it's well done,
it's it's like eating leather. I have a predilection towards certain types of
protein, perhaps like lamb, maybe love lamb. I think you better come
out with it, flair, because I think I think all the signs are
there. He was how about licanthropy? Have you ever been diagnosed with that?
No? That's what my theory is that. I think that you ever
reach for a milk bone? Sometimes I do, don't. I have crazy
stories about that. I do. Have a friend of mine when I was
a kid, his mom used to give us milkbones and streets. And I
tell my son this and he calls, he calls bs. I me,
and then I'll take you have a dog, I take a milk bone,
and I'll bite a milkbone, and he'll dad, what are you doing?
No, it doesn't, you can eat it. It's it's Okay, it's
almost like he's a prophet. Flair. You are a prophetic I say about
what. Yeah, you are the secret of Skinwalker Ranch, aren't you?
He hasn't he believes Flair? Tell him what what your theory is? Bro,
you are aware Wolf that you got bit, you have some lost sweating,
all that stuff. Would you like to respond to that? TJ.
I honestly be honest with us. Listen, it could be. I can't
say no, it's definitely I can see that now that you're saying, is
I'm having like that aha moment at the end of the what was the Bruce
Willis movie where the kid so the kid was dead? Yes, I'm having
I'm having that flashback all of a Sudden'm like, oh my god, oh
my god, oh my god, oh my god, all these things in
my head. Like you're right, yeah, so I all I may have
solved it here, all right, Chris, I mean I don't know what
to say now. I feel like we might have answers. Now we've been
wondering what's going on in this ranch and now I mean take over, Nathan.
I'm just were you there, were you guys there, all of you
or when we were talking about the and me. Somebody sent me something on
Twitter about the guy who claimed it, who claimed the skinwalker defense in court,
So there's a there's a real court case about this. It was a
different Twitter space and where there's a real life so there is a real component
to this game. I want to bring her back here for that because she
knows about that. Come back here, you go ahead. Yeah, I
was just saying that. After we talked about that a little bit, I
found two cases about that, two different cases about people from the Navajo claiming
that skinwalkers were part of the reason for their crimes, right, and didn't
want to correct me if I'm wrong, But I thought the one guy,
the judge accepted that as a defense at least in one right. Was it
a maybe it was a murder case, a brother killing a brother or something.
I don't remember the final verdict. I just remembered that they considered it
at length and one was an uncle. One was an uncle that he said
he was scared of, and they considered that at length and said this was
his belief. He was scared his uncle was a skin walker. Yep.
Yeah, maybe maybe maybe it got in. I don't know, man,
I get it there and no, he you know, we just wanted to
come up with something, uh, with some funnies, and thankfully Flair came
up with that and and it was beautiful. Oh I know why you guys
were breaking my chops about him. Something was going on, you know,
like no one's ever commented on that before. But okay, I'll go with
it. Is what really threw me for that. Yeah, you don't,
hey, guys, I think we got to get to this because we want
to create an opportunity for TJ and Brandon to make a significant amount of money
something that oh yeah, doesn't you know. We're not interested, but we
want these guys to make a significant amount of money. And Flair actually has
created the answer to that, and he's giving it to you, t J.
I am yeah, Nathan, make it happen. Man. All right,
So here we have player's own Skinwalker Ranch dressing. And let me tell
you, yes, brilliantly, what would you think of this? You think
I have a chance. I mean, I mean you have a chance.
You have a chance, you have a chance. He just photo on there.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I love this, man, I love
this. That's your only product, Flair, Do you have another one.
I have have it in two flavors. Actually, I up regular and radioactive.
So there you have it. Buttermilk, branch, buttermilk. I love
it, buttermilk. Yes, very specific, and let us cut. Nobody
from this show has called the US Patent Office or going on their website and
patented it. So it's for you and Brandon make it happen. You know.
I feel like Brandon probably got that locked up. I know he's got
the prede mark already on it. Yeah, I know, television man,
that's great. I wish I had a merchant sell merchandise and stuff like that.
Yeah. Just check. Go to the US Patent Office website. You
can search and see if it's patented and has to be salad dressing utility patents.
Yeah, put it on a T shirt? A right, yeah,
thank you so much. All right, let's get Chris has something or Nathan
has something? Actually, yes, okay, sure, yeah, Well Chris,
why don't you go go first and then I'll go after you. Actually
I wanted so based on everything you've been through and if you could put in
a nutshell, what has changed you about this? What? What is the
one thing that in the core of your soul? Has you know, has
this experience changed you? I think it has based on how you talk and
what what is that you know, what is so different about you because of
this God? That's a great question. No one's asked me that. So
what I think I have a new appreciation for this. It's kind of it.
It opened my I guess it opened my uh opened me up to the
idea of other stuff quote unquote right stuff I think when I initially again,
okay, let me step back, because most of the TV I'd done prior
to this was like real estate stuff or home renovation shows and things like that.
So this was I was approaching this as a television project, and I
didn't expect to have any any of that, any any of the experiences that
I had. I was an outsider when I had first started the research and
looking into us, being outside and looking in. You know, I only
knew as much as everyone else about the legend and lore and what I could
expect and what could or couldn't happen. I always believed, you know,
since I was young, my parents would tell me, like I was very
like almost evangelizing about there's aliens, there's aliens, there's aliens. There's life
off the planet, and they would always tell me there's nothing there or you're
crazy, you're crazy, You're crazy, and it's like, well, now
I got a TV show about it, so ha. So the difference though,
is now it kind of validates it somewhat, and they didn't go into
it thinking that it was going to be what it is at all. I
pitched this as a is a paranormal oak Island. That's how I pitched it.
Oak Island was my favorite chow I wanted. I was frustrated with television
about these run experience or these these short investigations about ghosts. Right two nights
at a haunted quote unquote haunted place, guy takes his shirt off, wants
to fight ghosts with crappy cameras. I was like, that's not science.
There's nothing about that at all that's interesting. But this is kind of the
way culture had gone, like we want that, really, you know the
junk food I guess, so to speak, how do you set up a
long term experiment with every device that can measure something all the time and then
track the data right look at it? So I went into it with open
mind, but thinking this is a great science project. Or great television concept.
But then when you get out there and you have experiences, you're like,
holy, what like? And then you can't tell people the yeah because
it's almost like, you know, the veil had been pulled back, right.
So it's like, I don't know how to describe any of it.
I can't attribute it to anything, and I don't and I purposely don't because
as soon as you say something that attributes it to something that you're immediately labeled
as an X y Z, it loses credibility in certain circles, no matter
what circles those are. And it's like a big not in our circles.
Well, no, not in our circles, right and I and I'm gathering
that more and more from people out online, but it's still I have to
I walk a fine line between I have to mark. I have to present
stuff to buttoned up network executives who just want to make TV shows, So
I can't present them something that's so far out there that they're going to be
like, man, I'm not on board. Yeah, Like I tried that
with the Bigfoot thing at one point. But I always tell people for what
I have learned from talking to big foot people Uh, the plural of bigfoot
is big foots, not a big I didn't know that, Yes, of
course, and so and so when it is. And when I would plush
shows, bigfoots is right, big feats. But when I would pitch that,
you know, when I would talk to network people about it, I
pulled, you know, they were always like, well, there's never evidence
they got the show about hunting big foot. They'll never find anything. It
just show's going to go on and on and on. It's kind of like
Chasing the Dragon. The difference here with the one I pitched was if you
take there was a documentary I think done. It was called like something for
one one. It was about missing persons and bigfoot sightings, and if you
overlay the two maps, the correlation is just scary. So it makes it
look like bigfoot kills people. I mean that the sightings, a number of
sightings and missing people. Seriously, if you look into it, I think
there was a dock about it. A documentary. It's almost like it's when
you see that data, you're like, you've got to be kidding me.
And then but the problem is in TV world, you'd want to believe,
like you want to create a great story and you want to create this,
this this potentially fun narrative, Like you know, there's something fun about studying
the unknown at Skinwalker rant, right, there's a science element, there's the
unknown element, just like normal paranormal. Right, there's all of these.
And with the Bigfoot one, when you start getting real like that with a
missing person or people turning up dead, the question you start asking is okay,
so in being completely open and you know, frank about it, like
what's more plausible a mythical creature or an alien comes down and kills people and
we have no evidence of this, or some crazy people dressed as Bigfoot killing
people. Wow, Unfortunately that is more plausible, and so the networks don't
want to touch it. Yeah, and so this is kind of like so
when you whenever you're framing these stories, and just like with Skinwalker, like
I'd love to pitch more out fire, out there stuff, but you gotta
you got to bring it down to a way where they can put it in
their little box and like because then they got a boss to go to.
And then you know it's got to go up and up and up. Sure,
So well that's too bad because he's your mind has changed, then you're
it's expanded, and you would think that that would provide for some great creative
ideas that everybody you know that people don't. That's why I'm here, Like
I feel like I have a good knack for finding a way to package these
things and put them in a way that are presentable to them. Like that's
maybe my a skill that I've developed, like with Skinwalker, Like they didn't
want to hear Skinwalker. Nobody heard that. No one would even hear the
pitch from us at first because they're like, it's it's bs uh, nobody
can get there. And you know, everything that's been done there is a
publicity stunt and people were pitching it like we had when we were pitching it
at the time during one of our meetings. So you know that the way
the networks work, right, there's any It's like one pyramid and the Discovery
Networks is another pyramid. And so back in the day, every every network
had their own executive that you pitched to. Now you pitch to like the
top of the pyramid and then they say, okay, which one of our
channels does it go on? God, I'm talking out my hands a lot.
Hey, DJ, what do you do? You know, Hey,
what are you doing? Hey? So you got this period And I went
to Rails last night. I saw the mayor in there. I'm sorry,
go ahead, I didn't know. I didn't. But the idea of like
pitching and we're pitching this Skinwalker was like, hey, listen, somebody's already
pitching that travel and they said that they have access to it and they can
get in there. And it's like, Brandon's like, that's not true at
all, that's bullshit. Dang, He's like that bs and uh, and
they had we had to find out I'm not going to say who that was,
but somebody people were pretending that they could get access and pitch the show
all the time. Uh. And so that was one of the things that
had white people weren't hearing that pitch. But now that it's the show's on
and it's successful, if you if you notice right away, blind Frog Ranch
came on another on Discovery which is about seven miles away from Skinwalker, I
think it was seven miles and now there's and so it's opened up the floodgates
now and so now I, by getting the foothold in, I kind of
pushed the wind pushed it a little bit right, that over to the window,
so of like now it's opened a little bit more where you're here there
here's something that might be a little bit more fringe. And then it's like,
okay, claim that, claim that ground, and then bring that to
the norm and then just keep on taking those steps. And so I think
that, you know, with skin Walker, the thing that's changed with me
is my mind is more open to hearing these things and saying, how can
I make something that is so unbelievable more believable and plausible to a TV audience?
Right? And it is. There's a lot of advocacy there because it
is believable and people have had real experiences and had been quite scared. I
want to just promo there's a gentleman on our chat that is going on.
You're you're going on his show Bottled Water. Oh, bottled Water Yeah,
us Army brother to my Air Force me and so we're we're really happy and
when and please so go over and watch Bottle Waters take on TJ and what
kind of craziness you might get up to. And also it's I know it's
it's untoward when you invite someone on you plan on an hour and you ask
for more time. But because my brother Nathan that's right below me right there,
has a question for you, I would I would ask you, yeah,
yeah, for another question and then we'll please we'll start the wrap.
Okay, awesome, thank thank you. Of course, of course, if
you could, uh permit me to go a little meta for a second here
as a lead up to this question. You know you've spent your life,
you know, creating entertainment, uh and crafting that. And when you're doing
TV, you're doing movies, you know, you're you're creating experiences for the
audience you want them to you're taking them on a journey, right, you
want them to go through a journey. Uh. And and if you know,
sometimes that that formula like works and you get them exactly where you want
to go, and sometimes it doesn't. But the kind of the point of
the whole cutting scenes and and that kind of thing is to to help people
get from kind of point A to point B on a show. So take
that concept is the phenomenon What kind of show is it putting on for us?
Hm? What what what journey does it want us to go on?
Man? That's a interesting question. Is there an influence. Is there an
influence? I don't know how to answer that because, uh not, like
I'm trying to. I'm not I'm trying to. I don't want to.
I don't want to read into what it is doing. I don't know.
I'm just a you know, I'm a shaved partially shaved where where let's frame
it. Yeah, but I guess, you know, so taking you know,
the expertise that you have, you know, like how if you were
directing this show, you know, I'm putting kind of taking a step back
from the show itself and what the people in the show are experiencing. What
journey is it putting them on? This is about TJ. This is about
t J. Yeah, and yes, and yes, the whole the whole
experience. Yes, you know, I'm trying to think the I guess.
I mean, there's there's a certain amount of I don't know, it's like
tea. It's it's teasing to a certain extent. I think what I can
say. So there's obviously there are there are things that happen, right,
there are milestones, are measurable things that are happening. Uh, the way
we're choosing to the way we're choosing to analyze these things are with tools,
with with tech right right, there's a there's a there's a human component to
it. You can try to analyze it as a person. And I think
a lot of people are going to have a different view of that of that
journey to I guess from what I'm seeing is it is kind of like teasing.
It is slowly crafting. Yeah, not craft I guess maybe it's like
it's revealing stuff. Uh and I I really what I want to see happen
is and it is happening like it happened before the show, And we talked
about it in the beginning, Eric building software and hardware his Satan machine in
all of the software. And I think maybe this is a way to push
the push the tech to get to a point to be able to more clearly
communicate or measure like it's kind of giving you. So there's movies like that
where yes, we're it kind of gives, it's giving you the crumbs and
it's like, no, you got to figure it out. But as you
figure that out, I'll give you a little more to figure out. And
then you figure it out and then eventually the thing is calibrating the instrument.
It's a screenplay that like almost it could be. I mean, it's again,
it's far thatched. It's you know, it's all these ideas are out
there, but if you're looking at it, like what else could it?
What else could would be happening? Like if if something was there that was
intelligent, that wanted to just make it easy and say, hey, guess
what I'm here? End of story. Right, it's not doing it for
a TV show. I can't imagine, Right, it's like, oh,
well, you know, I'm gonna get a get my fifteen megs of fame.
Whatever the hell? Nobody cares. The only value you could say,
and it is you can. You can. You can see how it's pushing
It's not just pushing the equipment in the tech, but the thought that it's
also pushing forward. I mean, think of think of where it is,
Like there's a legit TV show, a hit TV show on cable that millions
of people watch that is scientifically trying to find out what is going on.
If you said that ten years ago, they would think you were crazy,
right, like seriously, but that pitch works today? Yeah, but now
it works. It's like, so whatever happened between now, and then you
know you got to think, Okay, from what's gonna happen now in the
next ten years. Well, if this is if we're slowly learning things,
and it's I'm trying not to take the human part, of the human component
out of it, meaning we have to be in you know, we have
we have to have the ingenuity to kind of develop the tools and develop the
skills in order to get to a point where we would ever be able to
talk to an inance civilization because obviously we're not there yet, right that that
quote unquote advanced. So if Eric's building tools, if other people are building
tools, if this platform is opening it up to bring new guests on new
new equipment, on new ideas and ways of experimenting, then it's pushing the
entire knowledge based forward. And again, like you said, like it's crafting
it for itself. I feel like there are there's been movies about stuff like
this, this these theories, so it's not again not a beautiful unique not
if like it's not my theory, someone else has had it. I'm just
trying to shut it on this product, on this project product. Yeah,
I guess projects, but it's a it's I don't. I don't, man,
that's a great question. That was a great answered him. Come on,
this is why he's got matching on one K on the show matching for
one Where can I have one of those incredible on in work vision and eyeglasses?
Yeah, A network benefits. Yeahs, So I see I work contacts.
I see you guys. You all have glasses, right, so you
read? No? Have you read there's a new thing that just passed the
FDA stuff that eye drops to fix your vision. What? No, Yes,
it's crazy, So go look it up. There's a new eye drop.
It's ab V is the is the company? Any ab V is A
is a arm of company. And I think so the way it works and
it doesn't correct both right, it might correct far near side or I'm not
sure which one. But from what I understand, the way that it works
is, uh, your eye focus has to do with pressure in your eye,
and so what this does is you put the eye drops in and it
regulates the pressure. But it only lasts for like eight hours and after it
goes away, and so it's like eight hour glasses. I'm like, that's
just genius. If it doesn't work, I'll have my attorney call you,
but I don't know. I'm kidding you. We have one we have one
final serious question, and then we will get to our goodbyes, which I
know we're going to be heartfelt, because really the framework here is we use
the ranch uh as a as a as a framework. So I'll do Mike,
but really this was about TJ. This episode is really about you,
and the Ranch was sort of a framework, and it's really enjoyable because the
whole purpose of doing one of these shows is to connect with people, to
get them, to know them, to hear interesting stories, and to be
stimulated. My final question for you, and this is just something I've gotten
a feeling from you over the course of this episode and listening to you speak,
and I feel like there is a nexus between the physical experience that you
had that would be quite scary for anybody who's visited there and then come home
and had some sort of a hitchhiker effect and your refusal to mentally give into
it. I believe that you're sort of creating a barrier between what the ranch
offers and scarce the living hell out of some people, and you will not
allow that to get into your psyche. I feel that I could be one
hundred percent wrong. No, I think you're right on. I think that's
true. I pretty I don't. Since I don't know what it is what
happened, I can't answer. I try to kind of keep it, you
know, arm's length, like I get. I don't. I again,
I don't want to give thoughts as what it could be because I feel just
it's just like everything in the in the world today, everything is polarized so
much you can't say anything and not expect a backlash. So in that I
would rather be open to listening to others ideas and entertaining everything that I can.
I you know, even being a freaking mir wolf. That's fine,
we'll get to that. We'll get that. This is a storyline here.
But yeah, but so like by doing that, it's like it's like,
yeah, so by doing that, I kind of will I do keep it
arms like. But I'm open. And but again, this is why it's
so great, And you have big brains out there that are studying it,
Like, eventually you're gonna be able to I believe label these things. You're
gonna say it is X, it is why And this happened because of this
and this led to this. I think that I will be more confident to
label things or put it put it on when I have more info, because
listen, there are potential very you know, plausible explanations. Radiation is the
one that always comes to mind that people always throw could very well be I
don't know, but I'm not discounting that or anything else. So yeah,
I try to keep it his arms like, and I do try to keep
it like. There's no reason to let let becket out, you know,
take over your power absolutely, So yeah, I mean, I I really,
you know, hope that you should look out for situations where and and
Nathan may once you speak to just where you would find yourself naked in the
woods, you're laying down, you might be gnawing on some sort of a
wintery animal like a beaver, whatever. I just want you to be careful
that if that those werewolf tendencies come up, that you address them and and
you always have a place to hear and to come and talk to us about
it. Judgment free. This is a judgment where wolves are welcome here to
Jay right on you. That is a performer, right on you. I
love guys. Everybody's gonna take a chance to say goodbye to Yes, TJ.
It's been a pleasure, Thank you so much. This is just you
have no idea how excited I was about today, how nervous, and I've
been like so I'm like that meme with you know the guy that's cool.
Thank you so much. Course and then so I appreciate you being here and
can we have you? Of course? I know it's cool. Of course,
of course, Like so I put it out there too, like I'm
trying to do. I want to do these on a regular basis. Yeah,
I want to get out there and and and I will, like you
know, just I got bottled waters this Saturday, and I just I was
hoping not to do them so close together, but because but this will kind
of just happened that way. But I think I'm gonna try to space them
out every few weeks or something. But yeah, I absolutely, I absolutely
will. Just on people want to talk to you because he liked that he
ain't a Hollywood up at all. Money Nathan is next. Yeah, So
TJ. I got to say, you have opened up my mind a lot
tonight by what you've offered about the show. I love the show. I've
watched both seasons and really have got a ton out of it, but your
perspective on it has totally changed that for me, and it just taking it
down a whole bit different path. And I'm I just can't thank you enough
for that. And I want to say too, as a fellow gamer.
Uh, you know that experience plays in right, So like I have to,
I have to believe that that early experience that you had developing games,
you know, has led to your success and gives you a unique perspective on
everything that you do, particularly with this project. So keep up the great
work and we'll talk to you again in the future. Yeah. Absolutely,
thank you, Girse Flair. All right, matt Hey, it was great
meeting you, and thank you for putting up with me. That was awesome.
Man, this is great. Ask me why I'm itching all the time
tonight? You know, you put it in my head now the ranches,
the where Wolf narrative is it is? All right? Well, I'm glad
I entertained you. That was my goal. So thank you for being here.
It was an honor to mean to you. Man, seriously, thanks,
thanks, that's awesome. I just wanted to thank you for sharing about
your personal experiences and we are here to support you. And if you,
you know, ever want to just get more research on skin walker cases or
anything, just let me know. At the Study of U A p S.
Deb Will. She loves to research. So if you want to know
about something but you don't have the time to look into it, you can
d M deb And and she'll do it. She's absolutely phenomenal and she's just
a lovable person. Yeah, that's your thing. That's your like, that's
your that's not that's not my full time job, but that is what I'm
sorry. I just want to say that I'm extremely proud that two of our
members you see at the bottom of the stream do work and and Council U
from a psychological yes you Claire, yes you council kids as uh from a
psychological perspective. So both of them are degreed in that field and we're extremely
extremely proud of of both of them. That's deb and Flair awesome. That's
awesome work. Okay. So yeah, and if you do well whatever,
you're not degreed. I'm working, dere You're you're a degree of beautiful over
there and so uh, Deb, So yeah, if you but if you
do want to know about something in any of this field. And you DM
deb she will she will go out and uh and get some information for you
for what you need. Okay, it's always good to know. Thank you,
brother. We had so much fun. Thank you for playing long.
You have an amazing smile. It's it's infectious. It's almost like I don't
want to talk about cod It's like the flu. So I love it so
since talking with you guys, it's really funny. Like I've been called wholesome,
aware of the blue. My smile is flu like, I mean,
this is great. There's all these new things about what a great for self
esteem. We're gonna raise you up. I mean, you're gonna get so
much love. So thank you so much for joining so for t J Aller
for a Kashi, Chris for money, Nate, for Flarious, Maximus down
there, and for dev. This is DJ saying peace out, one love
and we'll see you down the road. We're always wondering what's up around the
bend. Thanks everybody,