WEBVTT 1 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:31.480 Welcome back to the Pathway, Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and 2 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:38.240 I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. November fifteenth, nineteen 3 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:43.600 eighty six, Willow Creek, California, when a fire breaks out at the 4 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:48.719 mobile home of sixteen year old twin sisters Jill and Julie Hanson. Both girls 5 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:53.679 receive shotgun blasts to the stomach well. Jill dies at the scene, Julie 6 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:59.079 passes away at the hospital one month later. Since evidence implicates their twenty one 7 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.520 year old half brother, Donnie Hanson, he's charged with arson in murder and 8 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:08.239 goes on trial for the crime. However, since eyewitnesses reported seeing two other 9 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:14.879 unidentified men near the murder scene, this creates enough reasonable doubt for the jury 10 00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:19.359 to acquit Donnie, so there are no conclusive answers about who actually killed Jill 11 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:25.519 and Julie. After that, the path went chilly. So today we're going 12 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.040 to be covering a case from Unsolved Mysteries in which the victims were a pair 13 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:33.400 of twin sisters, the nineteen eighty six murders of Jill and Julie Hansen. 14 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:37.599 This was a pretty unique segment for the show. Because it aired after a 15 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.319 suspect had already gone on trial for the crime and was found not guilty. 16 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.159 In essence, it was almost like a reverse final appeal segment, since a 17 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.840 number of people still believed that the defendant was complicit in the murders. Jill 18 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.120 and Julie live with their parents in a mobile home, but after a fire 19 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.000 broke out in the middle of the night and burned the trailer to the ground, 20 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.239 it would turn out that both sisters received shotgun blas, which ultimately led 21 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:05.560 to their deaths. At the time, the twins' half brother, Donnie Hansen, 22 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:07.680 was visiting from out of town and had spent the night at the trailer. 23 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:12.599 But a lot of evidence would soon emerge that Donnie was responsible for the 24 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:15.960 crime, and he may have intended to wipe out his entire family. While 25 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.680 Donnie would go on trial for double murder, his defense team managed to create 26 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.919 just enough reasonable doubt for the jury to vote not guilty, and because of 27 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:29.280 double jeopardy, he can never be charged with this crime again. However, 28 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:31.840 there was evidence to suggest that other people may have been at the murder scene 29 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:36.599 that night, and if Donnie was not completely innocent, these people could have 30 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:40.280 been his accomplices. Even if Donnie did not personally pull the trigger and shoot 31 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:45.479 his sisters, he may have known who did. The circumstances of how this 32 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:49.639 crime were carried out are so bizarre that it's really difficult to figure out what 33 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:52.919 actually happened. But there may still be people out there who have yet to 34 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.159 face justice for this crime, so the story is definitely worthy of discussion. 35 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:01.439 Can you imagine being in us or home where you're supposed to be safe and 36 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:05.599 no one's supposed to be able to get you. You're with your family and 37 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:09.199 a fire breaks out, which in and of itself would be horrifying, but 38 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:15.759 as you wake up to the fire, you're actually shot with a shotgun and 39 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:21.000 murdered alongside your twin sister. I can't even fathom who's in that scene, 40 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:24.599 who's setting this fire, and how they're in this place where they're comfortable enough 41 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:29.680 to set a fire and stay put to shoot the two girls. I know 42 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:31.960 that can happen in a few seconds, but you've got to remember they set 43 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:38.240 this fire and then or likely set the fire and then shoot these two girls 44 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:42.400 and flee. Who else was in the home at the time other than Donnie? 45 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:46.319 The two parents, the mother and stepfather, And this is so traumatic 46 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:51.280 for them because they're going through the situation where they think that they've lost their 47 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.120 home, that there's this big fire, and that they're potentially going to lose 48 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.719 both of their girls. And then they found out, oh my god, 49 00:03:55.719 --> 00:04:00.280 they were both shot. So this was an intentional homicide. So this pretty 50 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.800 much is the worst nightmare imaginable for a parent. And also find out that 51 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:08.159 your other child might be involved and responsible. Well, that's what's really heavy, 52 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.919 is that not only are your babies murdered, but then you start to 53 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:17.439 wonder is it your child that actually killed their siblings. So it adds that 54 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.800 layer of not only are we mourning the victims, but we're also mourning the 55 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:27.920 offender potentially in this case, and the physical and emotional loss and financial loss 56 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:31.959 of our home as well. So I can't even imagine. I got to 57 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:35.079 learn more about how people got out, how this fire was started, Tell 58 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:41.800 me more. Our story begins in nineteen eighty six in Willow Creek, California, 59 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:46.439 a small mountain town located in Humboldt County near Six Rivers National Forest, 60 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.959 which had a population of around one thousand people at the time, Well, 61 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:56.279 this doesn't hold any relevance to today's featured case. I thought it was worth 62 00:04:56.319 --> 00:05:00.800 mentioning that Willow Creek is the self proclaimed Bigfoot Capital of the World due to 63 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:04.639 the many Bigfoot sightings which have taken place in the region, and the town 64 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:12.000 also has its own Bigfoot museum and holds an annual Bigfoot Days festival every September. 65 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.600 While this may sound like a cliche, Willow Creek was described as one 66 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:20.959 of those tight knit communities where everyone knows everybody else and no one ever expected 67 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:26.720 that such a horrific crime would take place there. Our victims in this story 68 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.879 are Jill and Julie Hansen, a pair of sixteen year old twin sisters who 69 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.480 live with their parents, Hans and Betty Hanson. Hans and Betty had been 70 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:40.079 married for eighteen years and moved their family to Willow Creek in nineteen seventy one 71 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:45.079 so that Hans could operate his own logging supply business, and they currently live 72 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:49.439 in a mobile home located next to the business's warehouse. Betty also has two 73 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:54.639 older children from a previous marriage, named Becky, who has since gotten married 74 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:58.519 and Donnie, who's twenty one years old. At this point and living in 75 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:01.759 the town of Fortuna. On the night the crime occurred, Donny had stopped 76 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.839 by the residence to visit his family and stayed over by sleeping on the living 77 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:11.120 room couch. At around three a m. On the morning of November fifteenth, 78 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:15.800 Betty and Hans were sleeping in the primary bedroom when they were suddenly awakened 79 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.319 by what they described as popping sounds, and they soon started smelling smoke. 80 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:25.040 When they opened their bedroom door, they were shocked to discover the trailer was 81 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:29.519 now on fire and flames were burning in a long strip down the hallway. 82 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:34.680 Hans immediately grabbed a fire extinguisher and attempted to douse the flames, and while 83 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:39.000 he called out for Jill, Julie, and Donnie, he did not hear 84 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:44.680 any responses from them. When the extinguisher emptied, Hans exited out the back 85 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:47.600 door, but wound up kicking an empty gas can, which was now resting 86 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:51.560 on the porch. Betty made an attempt to run down the hallway to check 87 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:57.120 on her children and finally saw Donnie next to the couch. He ran through 88 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.560 the open sliding glass door while yelling get out of here, but Betty could 89 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.120 not see who he was shouting at. He could have been shouting at so 90 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.519 many people. He could have been trying to shout at the girls get out 91 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:13.399 of here, like get out of the flames, possibly shouting at somebody he 92 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.079 quote didn't recognize, which I assume would have been his whole defense if that 93 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.040 was what he said he saw. Or could he have been shouting at his 94 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.560 mom, you know, catching a glimpse of her running, just screaming, 95 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.800 get out, get out. The house is on fire. I'm assuming these 96 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:33.240 popping sounds are the shotgun blast. And at that point Donnie is present inside 97 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:38.199 the residence. Mom and Dad are there, and the two girls. That's 98 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.480 all we know of who's in the residence. And like I said, to 99 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:46.240 set a fire to the house very very very brazen. So if you were 100 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.040 going to go in to execute the girls, it's easier just to go in 101 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:54.079 and shoot the girls and leave without the fire, because you run the risk 102 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:58.519 of getting caught as the offender with burns, with gasoline on you, with 103 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:03.079 all these ways of getting into these murders. So it's so bizarre that you're 104 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:09.000 going to execute a murder with the arson while there's a whole family inside that 105 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.920 house. It's not like you just killed you know, all the victims that 106 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:16.879 could have I witnessed you. You left people alive and run out of that 107 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.439 home. Yeah. That's the thing with this crime is that nothing about it 108 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.839 really makes any sense. Like, regardless of whether you believe Donnie was an 109 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.600 innocent victim or he was involved in the crime, even if he planned it, 110 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.639 the way he carried it out really did not make a lot of sense. 111 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:33.559 And I know on the moment when his mother saw him yell and get 112 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.480 out of here, she didn't think anything of it because she figured, well, 113 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:39.559 he's taught, she's yelling at he's yelling at the twins, or maybe 114 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.559 he's trying to yell at me and his head's in the other direction, And 115 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.600 it's just one of those moments in retrospect where she starts thinking, maybe he 116 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.480 was yelling at the people who actually set the fire, and he was working 117 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.240 alongside them. And no matter who did it, what would ever be the 118 00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:01.039 motivation if it clearly wasn't sexually motivated to kill two sixty year old girls with 119 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.919 a bunch of shotgun blasts to the stomach and then to set the entire place 120 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.039 on fire. It's just bewildering. And this was like a very well liked 121 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.519 family who didn't have any enemies, So it didn't make any sense for just 122 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.919 random strangers to come in the middle of the night and commit a crime like 123 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:20.480 this. Now, how often did Donnie come visit the house? Like? 124 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.279 Is it odd that Donnie decided to come that night? Uh, not that 125 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.600 I know of. I mean, I've heard some rumors about Donnie that he 126 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.320 might have been kind of the black sheep of the family, but I haven't 127 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.279 heard any specifics about how. It just seemed weird that he would be stopping 128 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:39.240 by the house at this particular night. So Jill and Julie slept together in 129 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.200 the same bedroom, which was now blocked by flames. So Betty exited the 130 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.240 trailer and ran to the warehouse, where a number of extra fire extinguishers were 131 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.559 stored. Hans and Donnie soon joined her there, and Hans grabbed a ladder 132 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:54.600 and took it back to the trailer, where he used the ladder to break 133 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.720 the window of the twins bedroom. He yelled inside for Jill and Julie, 134 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.919 but received no response, and by this point the bedroom was engulfed in flames. 135 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:05.360 By this point, Betty had already called the fire department, and the 136 00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.120 family kept going back and forth from the trailer to the warehouse to grab fire 137 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:15.200 extinguishers to attempt to dowse the flames. While this was going on, Hans 138 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.440 asked Donnie if he had seen Jill or Julie anywhere, and he replied no. 139 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.679 The fire and department finally arrived at the scene to handle the situation, 140 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.919 but one of the Hansens neighbors noticed a body in a vacant lot across the 141 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:30.159 road, and it turned out to be Julie, who was bleeding from a 142 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:33.320 large wound in her abdomen. She was barely still alive, so she was 143 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:39.440 given immediate medical attention by paramedics and rushed to mad River Community Hospital in the 144 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:43.159 town of Barcada. Even though he had previously told Hans he never saw either 145 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.559 of the girls, Donnie now claimed that he had gotten Julie out of the 146 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:50.799 trailer himself, and when Hans asked how badly she was burned, Donnie didn't 147 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.919 answer. Unfortunately, there was still no sign of Jill, and no one 148 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:58.799 would find out what happened to her until daylight hit. After the fire was 149 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:03.240 completely put out. Jill's charred body was discovered in the trailer's rubble, but 150 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.279 like your sister, she had a large hole in her abdomen. Paramedics had 151 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:11.080 initially assumed that the wound in Julie's abdomen had been caused by an explosion, 152 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.879 but once she went into surgery, they realized that she had been shot at 153 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:22.360 point blank range with a twelve gate shotgun. Okay, I hate judging people's 154 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.120 reactions in the midst of trauma and grief. Right you're watching your house burn 155 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.279 down, You're watching your parents run back and forth trying to put the flames 156 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.639 out. You don't know where your sisters are. Necessarily, it would be 157 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:39.080 so overwhelming. I do not know how I would react. My prayer would 158 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.519 be that I would continue to fight to get everyone out of that house until 159 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.399 everyone was safe in sound. But I don't know. It's possible I shut 160 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.960 down. It's possible. I don't respond to people. However, it's really 161 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:54.960 interesting when Donnie is talking about, like, oh, yeah, I actually 162 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.960 got Julie out of the trailer myself, and when Hans asked details about how 163 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.440 badly burn she was, he doesn't answer. He can't answer, yeah, 164 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:09.080 supposedly he was holding her or pulling her out himself. And remember we see 165 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.559 him run out as mom is running down the hallway. She said she saw 166 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.679 him by the couch and then watch him run out the back door. Did 167 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.279 he actually bring her out? I don't think so. No. I think 168 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:24.039 she was shot and wounded and she crawled out there on her own. And 169 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.159 when Hans asked Donnie for the first time if he had seen Julie, he 170 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.600 probably was telling the truth when he said no, because he probably figured she 171 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.159 was just inside burning. But then I think when he realized that she was 172 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.240 out there, he just kind of changed his story to kind of make himself 173 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.279 look like a hero, because it would seem like an odd choice to try 174 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:45.919 to rescue her after I mean, I guess if you thought she was likely 175 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.279 going to die from her injuries and she wouldn't be able to articulate who shot 176 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.360 her, if Donnie was indeed responsible to pull her out, would be like, 177 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:56.679 see, I couldn't be responsible. It had to have been a third 178 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.559 party, because if so, why would I go back in and retrieve her 179 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:05.080 if I wanted her dead? That's what I think he was trying to do 180 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:07.639 to plant the seeds is that maybe he was thinking that she would die before 181 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:11.600 she had a chance to talk, and he figured, well, if I 182 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.799 tell this story, then no one will think that I'm responsible for killing her, 183 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:18.879 because why would I rescue her. Surgery was performed on Julie in order 184 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:24.159 to repair her internal organs, and even though it took six hours, she 185 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.879 wound up surviving and remained in critical condition in the intensive care unit. It 186 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.279 wasn't long before an autopsy confirmed that Jill had also been shot in the stomach. 187 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.679 When police performed a forensic investigation of the scene, they discovered three shotgun 188 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.039 shells and an empty five gallon gasoline can, in addition to the second empty 189 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.720 gas can that hans had almost tripped over when he exited out the back door. 190 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.039 A search was also performed in the warehouse, which was left undamaged by 191 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:56.159 the fire, and a twelve gage shotgun was found hidden behind some boxes. 192 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:00.960 Ballistics tests would show that it was the same gun used to shoot Jill and 193 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:07.440 Julie, conclusively proving that arson and murder had taken place. But since the 194 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:11.320 Hansons were known for being a very friendly family in the community without any enemies, 195 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.080 and the twins were popular in school. No one could figure out a 196 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:20.519 motive for this crime. And how sloppy is this murder anyway, because you 197 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.080 have two gasoline cans and you have the twelve gage shotgun found behind some boxes 198 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:31.039 in the warehouse that they own right by the mobile home, and so there 199 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:37.240 is all the evidence sitting at the scene of the crime. So either you 200 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.799 know, a young inexperienced criminal, but if you had these multiple offenders working 201 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:45.720 together, you would think someone in that group would say, we need to 202 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:50.600 get the supplies we bring and make sure they leave with us, not leaving 203 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.639 them at the scene of the crime, because that shows, like you said, 204 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:58.799 it conclusively proved arson and murder took place and how it happened. Yeah, 205 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.519 it definitely was a very sl crime, and I have a feeling that 206 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.240 whoever was responsible kind of had to think on their feet and leave the scene 207 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:09.159 right away and did not even think about the fact that they left crucial evidence 208 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.879 behind. Well, the case went in an unexpected direction during the early morning 209 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:18.639 hours of November seventeenth. At the time, the hands in property was corned 210 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.519 off by the Humboldt County Sheriff's Department, who kept it under twenty four hour 211 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.960 surveillance, but the officer on duty was taken by surprise when Donnie showed up 212 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.360 at the warehouse at five am and tried to climb in through one of the 213 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.480 windows. When the officer caught him and brought in the lead detective to question 214 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.919 Donnie, he told them that he had stopped by to feed the family dog, 215 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:41.440 even though the dog had recently been placed in the care of some neighbors 216 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.879 and Donnie would have known this. The detective suspected that the real reason for 217 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:50.159 Donnie's visit was because he wanted to retrieve the twelve gate shotgun, which had 218 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:54.519 been hidden behind some boxes inside the warehouse, and he was unaware the police 219 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.639 had already found it. It wasn't long before the investigation uncovered some pretty troubling 220 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.960 evidence against Donnie. It turned out that the shotgun belonged to a friend of 221 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.159 his, and Donnie had decided to borrow it only three days before the shooting. 222 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.480 A search of Donnie's car would turn up some unspent shells which matched the 223 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.559 empty shells found at the crime scene, and Donnie had purchased these shells only 224 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:21.240 hours before his sisters were shot. Credit card statements showed that Donnie also purchased 225 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.559 five gallons of gas two days before the crime, and witnesses from the service 226 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:30.039 station were called seeing Donnie fill up a five gallon can which was identical to 227 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.039 the gas cans found at the scene. Yeah, it really does point to 228 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:37.919 this fact that, of course Donnie's the one responsible for this. But why 229 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:45.000 is it possible that there's a life insurance policy or there's something that the girls, 230 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:52.240 maybe being the youngest, have larger beneficiary duties or assets coming to them. 231 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.639 If somebody happens to mom and dad he wants to get rid of them. 232 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.360 Is he resentful of the way they're treated versus the way he feels like 233 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:02.240 he's treated, So he's trying to take out who he's you're jealous and resentful 234 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.519 of? What would motivate someone who doesn't even live with these girls and they're 235 00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:11.279 teenagers, Like, how much could you despise them? What would motivate a 236 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.359 brother to come home and do that? What if he had been abusing them 237 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.599 in some way, like whether physically or sexually, and maybe one of them 238 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.880 had said, well, you know, we're going to tell I can't Like, 239 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.519 honestly, I'm just totally spitballing here. I can't think of any other 240 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:32.359 thing that would motivate someone to act out like this against two really well liked 241 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:37.400 girls. I can't imagine that he would harbor that much animosity towards Jill and 242 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:41.240 Julie that he would want to commit murder. And can colock this whole hair 243 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.880 brain scheme that involves setting the entire trailer on fire and possibly killing his parents, 244 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:49.640 Or does he hate his parents so much that he wants to take out 245 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.720 their pride and joy, which are their baby twin girls. That's also possible. 246 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.240 Like you talked about life insurance, that people have speculated that was the 247 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:00.519 motive, and that he wanted to kill every like, not just the twin 248 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:06.160 girls. That this was like intended for him to possibly inherit the family business 249 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:10.319 or collect on their insurance policy, but the whole thing went awry and so 250 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.480 the parents woke up before they could be killed. Julie continued to recover at 251 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:19.160 the hospital, but two weeks after the fire, she finally started talking again. 252 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:23.279 She told her parents and the police that she remembered being woken up by 253 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.279 a noise. Julie climbed over her sister, who was still asleep in their 254 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.160 bed and exited their bedroom into the hallway. She then saw a flash and 255 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:37.519 instantly collapsed to the floor after she was shot in the abdomen. Julie said 256 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.319 she did not get that she didn't get a good look at the shooter, 257 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:45.559 but she managed to escape the trailer while she was wounded and made it across 258 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.880 the road to the vacant lot where she was found. While this contradicted the 259 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.440 original story that Donnie had shared with Hans, where he claimed that he pulled 260 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:59.160 Julie out of the trailer himself. When pushed for more details, Julie revealed 261 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:03.880 that she briefly recalled seeing Donnie's face in the flash of the gunshot. However, 262 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.119 according to Julie's doctor, she had previously shared her story with him on 263 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:12.359 multiple occasions and never mentioned Donnie, as she specifically said she saw no one 264 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:18.559 hm. So at one point she says it was Donnie, but that's after 265 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.599 people are pushing her to say somebody, like maybe you had to have seen 266 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:27.359 somebody. Who did you see And it is possible she saw Donnie running from 267 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:33.279 the fire or something like that, but she doesn't ever actually conclusively tell the 268 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:40.359 doctors my brother shot us. I saw my brother. That's complicated because at 269 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:44.319 one point she does mention Donnie, so maybe it came to her only for 270 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:48.839 that brief moment. She's an extreme trauma, she's under extreme stress. So, 271 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:55.640 man, poor Julie. It's pitiful to hear her describe how she got 272 00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:00.359 out of the fire, and then you're thinking about this boy who's says, 273 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.119 oh, I was helping her. He's putting on this hero complex, and 274 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.519 Julie sitting there in her last moments describing how she had to climb over her 275 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.799 sister and instantly a shot and still manages to pull herself out of that house 276 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:19.759 somehow. I guess the alternate explanation is if Donnie was innocent because Julia gone 277 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:23.119 into the hallway and he was out there sleeping on the couch, that if 278 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.240 there was someone else there who fired the shot, she could have seen Donnie's 279 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.559 face in the background nearby, because he was in the living room. But 280 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.000 of course, the hole in that theory is that Donnie never mentioned anything about 281 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.720 someone coming into the house and seeing them fire a shotgun at his sister, 282 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.440 so it's really hard to explain, like her being able to see his face 283 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:44.720 if he had no involvement in the crime. But then again, is her 284 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:48.720 memory reliable? Is she just dealing with trauma or does she legitimately remember seeing 285 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.680 him and someone coming into the house and firing his shotgun at his sister's. 286 00:20:55.279 --> 00:21:00.519 It's just such an implausible theory that, like, you borrowed shotgun three days 287 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:07.200 before the murder and were to believe that somebody else came in potentially used it 288 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:11.720 to shoot your sisters and the gas cans. Remember they actually went in and 289 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:17.400 got his gas cans too, and used the gasoline he had just purchased, 290 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:22.880 the shells that he had just purchased. All of that makes absolutely no sense. 291 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.920 Donnie would be questioned by police on December the second and continue to deny 292 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:32.640 any involvement in the crime, but he wound up failing two polygraphs. However, 293 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.200 he did finally admit that he had been keeping the shotgun inside the car, 294 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.759 but panicked and decided to hide it in the warehouse while the fire was 295 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:44.119 taking place because he feared he would be blamed for the crime. Regardless, 296 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:48.799 investigators still believed that there was enough circumstantial evidence tying Donnie to the crime, 297 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.960 so following a two hour interrogation, Donnie was arrested and charged with Jill's murder 298 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:59.039 as well as arson. Unfortunately, tragedy would strike just under three weeks later 299 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:03.279 on December the nineteen, when Julie suddenly died at the hospital during a freak 300 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.400 medical accident. Her intravenous feeding tube had become separated from her neck, causing 301 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.680 an air bubble to enter her bloodstream, which resulted in an air embolism that 302 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:15.599 stopped her heart. Donnie would be charged with a second count of murder for 303 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.359 his role in Julie's death, but since she could not be cross examined by 304 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:25.039 Donnie's defense attorneys, Julie's story about seeing Donnie's face in the flash of the 305 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:30.160 shotgun blast was ruled to be inadmissible as evidence at his trial. Due to 306 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.720 the extensive publicity surrounding the case in Humboldt County, the defense felt it would 307 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:37.799 be impossible to assemble an impartial jury, so they filed a motion for a 308 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.000 change of venue. The motion was granted so the trial would take place in 309 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:47.440 Alameda County. In April of nineteen eighty eight, before the trial began, 310 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:52.119 the Humboldt County District attorney and now said he would seek the death penalty against 311 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.559 Donnie if he was found guilty. I'm trying to even understand an ounce of 312 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.920 how these parents would be feeling. They lost their one daughter that evening during 313 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.119 the fire, along with all of their personal belongings. Their second daughter is 314 00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.400 clinging to life, trying to recover in the hospital, and then some freak 315 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:15.079 medical incident and error causes her death, which would have never happened had the 316 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.279 fire not occurred and the shotgun blast hadn't happened. And then here's Donnie. 317 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:23.359 He's arrested in getting charged with both their murders. Do we have information about 318 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:30.599 where the parents felt in this moment about what their son's culpability would be. 319 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:36.880 Were they assisting law enforcement, did they feel as if Donnie was likely responsible? 320 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:42.319 Or are they advocating with Donnie's defense attorneys that he's absolutely innocent. At 321 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.240 this time, they were supportive of Donnie. They did not think, even 322 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.079 in spite of the overwhelming evidence, they thought he was incapable of murders. 323 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.759 So they did stand by him at the trial, But as time went on 324 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:59.559 they would change their tune. The primary piece of evidence supplied by Donnie's defense 325 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.720 team was eye witness testimony from two of the Hansen's neighbors who claimed that on 326 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.799 the night of the crime they saw two unidentified men standing outside the trailer while 327 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:14.240 it was on fire. Witnesses also were called hearing the sound of a car 328 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.640 screeching down the street a short time later, and these men were not present 329 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.440 when the police and fire department arrived. A few hours later, two men 330 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:27.119 were seen walking near the crime scene and were briefly questioned by police, and 331 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.680 while they claimed to have not been present when the fire took place, they 332 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:36.839 appeared to have ashes on their clothing. The defense's theory was that these two 333 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:41.599 unidentified men were the real perpetrators and found the shotgun, the shells, and 334 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.720 the cans of gasoline the Donny had recently purchased inside his car when they arrived 335 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.599 at the scene at around three a m. After picking the lock on the 336 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:55.160 sliding glass door and breaking into the trailer, they then proceeded to pour the 337 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:00.000 gasoline all over the interior. At some point, Julie woke up and egged 338 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.480 in her bedroom into the hallway, so one of the intruders shot her since 339 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.880 he was sleeping on the living room couch. Donnie was woken up by the 340 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.599 shotgun blast, and after finding Julie's wounded body, he took her out onto 341 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.799 the front porch before running over to the warehouse to help Hans and Betty grab 342 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:21.400 fire extinguishers. While all this was going on, at least one of the 343 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:26.400 intruders remained inside the trailer and fired a fatal shotgun blast into Jill. After 344 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:32.359 running outside, the assailant placed Donni's shotgun back inside his car, and the 345 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:37.079 two men subsequently fled the scene in their own vehicle before the rest of the 346 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.119 hands and badly saw them. Since Donnie was paranoid that he would be blamed 347 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:44.759 for the shooting of his sisters, he decided to take a shotgun out of 348 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:48.640 the car and hide it behind the boxes inside the warehouse. There was evidence 349 00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.480 that the trailer's sliding glass door had been tampered with, and since the shotgun 350 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:57.200 was not thoroughly fingerprinted and the empty shell casings were never fingerprinted at all, 351 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:02.960 it could not be proven or disproven that the items had been handled by an 352 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:10.799 outside party. No, no, I do that. I say no, 353 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.680 I don't think that that's at all possible. As to what happened. And 354 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.119 here's the thing. Remember, if you're Donnie, the story is you're on 355 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.359 the couch, you wake up to the house on fire and these sounds of 356 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.680 popping, and you run out the door. Maybe you rescue your sister. 357 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.440 Who you see is, you know, struggling to get out. Does he 358 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.440 even know that they're shot? He's not mentioning that he didn't even know how 359 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.200 burned his sister was. So to say that you thought you were going to 360 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.519 be blamed and instantly, while your house is burning down and your sisters are 361 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:45.359 dying, you think, my god, I own a shotgun. Those are 362 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.640 definitely shotgun wounds. They've been shot with a shotgun. I could be the 363 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.880 main suspect. Let me go hide this weapon and then come back and figure 364 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:57.200 out what's going on the fire. None of that makes any sense. It 365 00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:03.680 just not at all lines up. Yeah, the answer is no, hard 366 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.039 passed Donnie. Ten out of ten did not happen like that. Does not 367 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.559 happen like that exactly. Yeah, because it's true because no one was aware 368 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.240 at all that Julie had been shot until they did surgery on her at the 369 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.759 hospital, and of course they didn't realize Jill was shot until they found her 370 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:22.319 ashes the following morning. So if you're dealing with the trauma of your house 371 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:25.240 burning down, not knowing what's gonna happen to your sister, you're just gonna 372 00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:26.799 think to yourself, Oh, they're gonna blame me that I shot, or 373 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.839 I better get rid of the gun just in case, Like normal people do 374 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.519 not operate like that. No, that shows that you knew they were shot 375 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:38.240 with that shotgun. Aka, you're guilty, and then you hid the evidence. 376 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.240 The paramedics thought that she had been in an explosion, which is what 377 00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:47.599 caused the abdomen injury, until doctors later said, oh, no, this 378 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:53.680 is a shotgun blast. So just the defense's statement alone, their defense says 379 00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:00.119 Donnie knew what was happening, and the withholding of that evidence since he so 380 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.880 strongly believed this, that his priority was to hide it so that it wouldn't 381 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:08.279 implicate him, And then he doesn't articulate what he knows to paramedics so that 382 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:14.519 they can properly render aid to his sister. It just speaks to guilt knowledge 383 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.119 and he thinks that he's like giving himself it out here that this is plausible, 384 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.200 But like, I'm going to go hide the weapons so that nobody thinks 385 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.279 that I did it, he said, no innocent person ever. And isn't 386 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.720 it just like great luck for these intruders that they stopped by at three am 387 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.599 and find these shotgun shells and gasoline and a shotgun in the car parked outside. 388 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.839 It's like, we didn't even have to bring our own weapons. They're 389 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.079 just waiting right here for us. And why why would they do this? 390 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:48.519 Like what would be their motivation? Well, needless to say, the prosecution 391 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:52.960 felt that the defense's theory was absurd and did not find it believable that intruders 392 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.960 would show up at the Handsome residence to commit a crime without bringing any of 393 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:02.119 their own weapons and rely entirely on Donnie's shotgun and cans of gasoline. The 394 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:06.200 trial lasted two months, but in the end, the jury ultimately sided with 395 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:11.119 the defense on June the sixteenth. After deliberating for six hours, they wound 396 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.880 up finding Donnie not guilty on all the counts of murder and arson. According 397 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.279 to the prosecutor, many of the jurors would later tell him that they still 398 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.960 believed Donnie was responsible for the crime, but did not feel his guilt had 399 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.240 been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. You know, it is all circumstantial. 400 00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:30.960 I mean, there just wasn't forensic evidence to link him to it, if 401 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.319 the shotgun had not been thoroughly dusted, if the shells had not been thoroughly 402 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:40.319 finger printed. And the reality is, if he said I moved it, 403 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:42.400 we know his fingerprints are on that shotgun. So it's like, how do 404 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:47.279 you prove that I wasn't the murderer who put them there? But I was 405 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:51.359 moving the evidence in there for my fingerprints are on it. It's a complicated 406 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:56.440 case, highly circumstantial. Pointing to Donnie, he was known to have filled 407 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.200 those gas cans up, he was known to have bought shells. We know 408 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:04.200 that was his shotgun. He admits that he hid the shotgun because he was 409 00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:10.640 fearful that he was going to get caught. And so what's so sad in 410 00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:15.000 this case is that even the defense actually has evidence when you're when you're saying 411 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.559 Donnie moved all this and did all this because he was fearful that people would 412 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.559 think he murdered his sisters. He should have never known that information. So 413 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.359 even the defense points to his guilt, and yet the jurors said, you 414 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:33.799 didn't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. You allowed for other explanations to be 415 00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:40.079 presented, and you weren't able to explain those away, and so that reasonable 416 00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:42.400 doubt. We have juries all the time that say, you have course on 417 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:48.079 the surface, he's guilty, but our right is to be proven beyond a 418 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.319 reasonable doubt ninety nine point nine nine nine percent, and if you do ninety 419 00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:55.880 eight percent, I'm supposed to find him not guilty. And that's what they 420 00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:00.559 did here. It is still pretty surprising that after a two months trial that 421 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.839 he would only deliberate for six hours and not discuss it further before doing an 422 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.720 not guilty verdict. But I think the eyewitness siding of the other two men 423 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.599 outside the trailer probably created just enough reasonable doubt where they probably thought, well, 424 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:17.599 we believed Donnie was involved in this crime, but we can't technically prove 425 00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:19.880 that he pulled the trigger. I mean, there was definitely murder here, 426 00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:23.000 but how do we know those other two guys fired the gun that killed his 427 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.920 sister and were not charging him with conspiracy to commit murder. We're charging him 428 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.039 with the murder itself. And I guess they felt that this hadn't been proven. 429 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.799 The Hansons were initially supportive of Donnie and is not guilty verdict, but 430 00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:41.799 upon further reflection, they ultimately came to believe that Donnie was involved in the 431 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:47.720 crime, or at the very least knew what happened. Hans and Betty suspected 432 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:51.079 that, in addition to Jill and Julie, Donnie had planned to kill them 433 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.480 as well in order to collect on a large life insurance policy Hans had taken 434 00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:00.000 out for the family. Donnie would become completely estranged from his mother and sie 435 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:02.960 stepfather, and he eventually moved out of the area and changed his name. 436 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:09.119 Hans and Betty filed a wrongful death lawsuit against mad River Community Hospital, alleging 437 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:15.200 that malpractice had taken place and Julie died as a result of the hospital's negligence. 438 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.400 After years of delays, the case would finally be heard at a civil 439 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:23.480 trial in January of nineteen ninety two, but unfortunately for the Hansons, the 440 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:30.000 jury sided in the hospital's favor. Since double jeopardy prevented Donnie from ever being 441 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:34.680 charged with his sister's murders. Again, the Humboldt County Sheriff's Department did not 442 00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:38.400 bother to reopen the investigation, but Hans and Betty still believed that there was 443 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:43.759 a possibility that others were involved in the crime. As you'll recall, right 444 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.480 after the fire started, Betty believed that she saw Donnie yelling get out of 445 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:52.119 here to an unknown person. And like I said when you first mentioned that, 446 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:54.599 it could have been like get out of here, like who are you? 447 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:58.720 But he would have run out screaming there is somebody in the house. 448 00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:00.720 There is somebody in that house. Help you, like Hans, get in 449 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.279 there. Someone's in that house. If he just walks out, I was 450 00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:06.519 like, oh yeah. By the way, I rescued my sister and didn't 451 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:12.720 mention this other person and there was no fear or anxiety about who this unknown 452 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:16.720 person could be. Then Donnie would have known that person and is saying get 453 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:21.920 out to like not burn alive in this house or to not get caught for 454 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.759 the murder of his sisters. So is it possible he could have left all 455 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.039 the evidence for someone else to help him carry out the crime? Thousand percent 456 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:32.480 could have been those two guys, but they didn't do it in absence of 457 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:37.480 Donnie. There's just no way. And if so, who like, is 458 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:44.880 there anybody in Donnie's life, Robin that could potentially have helped him in the 459 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.640 commission of this crime. Unfortunately, I don't really have that information. Like 460 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:52.480 surprisingly, given this was a big trial, there is a limited amount of 461 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:57.759 info out there that's accessible. I mean, I have heard rumors out there 462 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.920 that Donnie was involved in drugs, that he could have owed a drug debt 463 00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.000 to someone, and that he ran with some rough people, But I never 464 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.480 heard any specific names or suspects of anyone else who would have helped him carry 465 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.119 out this crime. Because, as you can imagine, you've got to be 466 00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:15.719 a pretty like rigid person. If someone says I need your assistance to murder 467 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.320 my entire family, will you go along with it? And of course, 468 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:22.599 like possibly he was going to collect on the insurance money, But it doesn't 469 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:27.039 sound like Donnie was a particularly wealthy individual who could pay someone a lot of 470 00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:30.559 money to perform this murder. So Ever, since the twins were children, 471 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:35.480 their parents had been saving up money for them to attend college. They wound 472 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:38.199 up saving over fifty thousand dollars and hoped to use it as reward money for 473 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:44.159 information. The case would be featured on the tabloid TV show Hard Copy in 474 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.039 May of nineteen ninety two, and a year and a half later, in 475 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.239 November of nineteen ninety three, it was profiled on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries. 476 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:53.559 While Donnie agreed to be interviewed for this segment, he requested that the 477 00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:58.639 show obscure his face and alter his voice in order to protect his identity. 478 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:02.880 However, don Donnie also wound up changing some details of his original story. 479 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.760 Even though the scenario presented at trial was that Donnie had been awakened by the 480 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.599 sound of a shotgun blast, he now said that he never heard any shots 481 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.360 at all. While Donnie had originally stated that he hit his shotgun in the 482 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.599 warehouse because he feared he would get blamed for the crime, his new story 483 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:22.280 was that he moved it there to prevent it from being stolen. In spite 484 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:28.159 of these inconsistencies, Donnie continued to maintain his innocence and denied any involvement in 485 00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:31.679 the crime, even though there has always been speculation that other suspects were complicit 486 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:36.760 in the murders. After more than thirty seven years, there's still no conclusive 487 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:40.519 answers about who actually killed Jill and Julie Hansen, So I guess you could 488 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:45.039 say the path went chilly. I don't blame Donnie EF for wanting to obscure 489 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:52.360 his face because he's a liar man. I don't understand. Obviously he's been 490 00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.039 found not guilty, so he could walk out of the courtroom and say I 491 00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:58.280 did it and got away with it. And that's just how our justice system 492 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:02.320 works. A lot of times that protect people. But it's so frustrating in 493 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:05.920 a case like this, where you go, come on, Donnie, like, 494 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.480 either let it go and be quiet about it, because clearly you got 495 00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:14.639 away with something. But to have him on this show, even with his 496 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:21.320 face obscured, and had him telling multiple versions of what happened, none of 497 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.320 it makes sense. If he didn't hear the shotgun blast, why did he 498 00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:28.440 need to move the gun, Why did he need to hide the gun. 499 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:34.599 It's just so upsetting. I'm so frustrated. I cannot imagine what the people 500 00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.960 who care about this family were thinking when they're listening to Donnie talk, when 501 00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:43.480 the poor parents are having to watch his version and it just doesn't line up 502 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:49.119 with what they experienced that night. It's devastating. So Ashley, if your 503 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.639 house was on fire, your first priority wouldn't be your husband or your children, 504 00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.920 right, you'd grab your gun. It makes to make sure that no 505 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.639 one stole it because people are going to steal valuables during a fire. Yeah, 506 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.840 two thousand percent. I'd be going around making sure what's most valuable in 507 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.039 here that could get stolen tonight, and everyone's gonna have to find for themselves. 508 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.039 I mean, especially the nine year old and the dogs. Figure it 509 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:15.440 out. I gotta protect us from theft tonight. Hope they're not listening to 510 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:22.559 this. I love you guys. So anyway, before I start talking about 511 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:27.679 this case, here's a list of some of the most controversial examples of defendants 512 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:30.719 who were acquitted of murder after trial. O. J. Simpson, Casey 513 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:37.360 Anthony, Lizzie Borden, Donnie Hanson. Okay, obviously, Donnie Hanson is 514 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.599 nowhere nearest famous as these other examples I just listed, but I would definitely 515 00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:45.280 say it's one of the most surprising acquittals I've ever come across at a murder 516 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.840 trial. Even though there seemed to be pretty damning evidence against Donnie which could 517 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.960 not be adequately explained, twelve jurors only had to deliberate for six hours before 518 00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.519 they decided to find him not guilty. Now, I'm definitely a big believer 519 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:02.800 in reason doubt and feel that if a juror thinks that there's any doubt whatsoever 520 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.320 that the defendant committed the crime, they should vote to acquit. Apparently, 521 00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:12.159 some of the jurors in this case still believe that Donnie was responsible or at 522 00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.840 the very least involved in the murders, but they just did not feel that 523 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:20.760 the prosecution had proven its case beyond reasonable doubt. We've covered quite a few 524 00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:23.920 cases on this podcast where a defendant went on trial and was found not guilty, 525 00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:29.239 and while we personally believed that some of these defendants were guilty all along, 526 00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:32.000 we can also understand why the jury reached the verdict that they did. 527 00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:37.280 But with Donnie Hansen, and I'm really not sure I get it. The 528 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.880 biggest point of reasonable doubt were the eyewitness sightings of the two unidentified men near 529 00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:45.239 the trailer while it was on fire. I don't know if that's strong enough 530 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:49.880 to overcome the mounds of evidence which implicated Donnie. I mean. The Unsolved 531 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:54.440 Mystery segment presented a full reenactment of the alternate scenario, Donnie's defense team presented 532 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:58.800 in favor of his innocence, and when you watch this whole sequence of events 533 00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:02.199 from beginning to end, it's hard to imagine how a jury could possibly believe 534 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:07.760 it. I do acknowledge that even if Donnie was guilty, there is a 535 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.079 good chance he had accomplices, and I guess I can see how this might 536 00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.960 have created a dilemma for the jury. While the murder weapon could be linked 537 00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:19.760 to Donnie, it could not be conclusively proven that Donnie himself used it. 538 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:23.079 It's possible that even if Donnie was complicit, it was his accomplices who fired 539 00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:28.880 the shots into Jill and Julie. Technically, Donnie was not charged with a 540 00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:32.400 conspiracy to commit murder. He was charged with committing the murders himself, so 541 00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:37.519 the jury might have felt this uncertainty he created enough reasonable doubt for an acquittal 542 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:42.960 even if they did not personally believe that Donnie was innocent. It's so true. 543 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:46.960 I mean, it takes one scenario where they say is it likely no, 544 00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:52.960 is it possible yes? And we just don't have enough. Especially think 545 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:58.280 about the fact that jurors they want a clear cut case. They're looking at 546 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.280 a murdered trial. They are also looking at where the DA has said we're 547 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.719 going for the death penalty. That's a lot of weight and responsibility on somebody. 548 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.559 And even when your gut says they're guilty, if your job and you're 549 00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:16.039 tasked with this is your instructions to the juror. If you have any doubt 550 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:21.679 and you do not believe that he's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be 551 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:27.719 guilty, you must acquit him. And so we do see these cases where 552 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:31.960 we're screaming Casey Anthony, everyone knew she was going to be found guilty. 553 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:37.480 You just knew it. And it was a not guilty verdict. And then 554 00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:43.280 if you watch how the trial went down, the prosecution didn't overcome some of 555 00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:47.599 the defense arguments, as ridiculous and as wild as they were. It left 556 00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:52.400 a question mark. It created a question mark, and jurors said, we 557 00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:54.760 had to follow the rules of what we were told to do. Any doubt, 558 00:40:55.400 --> 00:41:00.320 any potential ulterior alternative explanation, we have to vote not guilty. And 559 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:06.119 that's what they did in this case too. It's really disturbing because there's no 560 00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:10.239 way these two random men walked by, saw this car with a shotgun, 561 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:14.960 brand new shells, brand new filled gas containers, and said, you know 562 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.880 what we should do tonight. Not only should we murder whoever's in this house, 563 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.880 but we should also set it on fire and then keep walking after we 564 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:25.960 carefully put back all of the things that we used. It just didn't happen. 565 00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.920 There's no motivation. And although it's so frustrating that the jury came up 566 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:36.719 with that verdict, it's commendable that each of the individual jurors were able to 567 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:42.039 put their emotions aside and be able to be unbiased, because I can't imagine 568 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.599 being in that position, like just say Casey Anthony's trial, because that is 569 00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:50.880 triggering for a lot of people, because little Kaylee's life was taken from her 570 00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.559 and I think the vast majority of people believe at the hands of her mother, 571 00:41:53.719 --> 00:42:00.119 Casey. So to sit on that jury and to not be able to 572 00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:04.800 to say that she's guilty and to not sentence her to life in prison or 573 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.519 it's Florida, right, so it could have been a death sentence, I 574 00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:10.639 can't imagine what that would feel like. You've got to go home and you 575 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.159 know that this little girl isn't going to get justice, and that would be 576 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:20.199 a lot to live with. So the burden is really heavy on these jurors 577 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:24.119 and although us when we're examining these cases and we're looking at the end result 578 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:29.840 can be so frustrated. I can only imagine what it feels like for them. 579 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:31.320 So I think this would be a good time to bring it in to 580 00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.760 part one. But join us next week as we present part two of our 581 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.440 series about the murders of Jill and Julie Hansen. Robin, do you want 582 00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:43.719 to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, 583 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.159 The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and we offer 584 00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:52.400 these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also send out 585 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:57.000 stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with us on Patreon. 586 00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.639 If you join our five dollars tier tier two, we also offer monthly 587 00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:06.400 bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured on the Trail 588 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.239 Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if you join 589 00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:14.239 our highest tier tier three, the ten dollars tier, one of the features 590 00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:19.960 we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries where you 591 00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.880 can download an audio file and then boot up the original unsaved Mysteries episode on 592 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:29.960 Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background, 593 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:34.519 where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. 594 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.519 And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a commentary track over 595 00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:42.800 was the episode featuring this case. So if you want to download a commentary 596 00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:45.679 track in which I make more smart ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be 597 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:49.800 sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you know a little 598 00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.760 bit about the Jeweles and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad free episodes of 599 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:57.480 The Path Went Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili mini's, which are 600 00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.599 always over an hour, so they're not very many, but they're just too 601 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:04.199 short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those, so 602 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.679 we hope you'll check out those patreons will link them in the show notes. 603 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.039 So I want to thank you all for listening, and any chance you have 604 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:14.599 to share us on social media with a friend or to rate and review is 605 00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.840 greatly appreciated. You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com. 606 00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:22.559 You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwink. So until next time, 607 00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:25.920 be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for warm clothing. 608 00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:30.280 Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers comedy